Do Zombies evolve?

[Elmer J.]

I stumbled across this in one search or another on IMdb, and I think it looks pretty cool.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418819/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8dHQ9b258ZmI9dXxwbj 0wfHE9bGFuZCBvZiB0aGUgZGVhZHxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc= 1;ft=20;fm=1
It is basically your typical zombie flick, except that the zombies are apparently 'evolving.'
I've always wondered what happens after Zombies infect every living thing on the planet.
Would they just stumble around eating each other?
Or would their brains start to redevelop above their basic instincts, eventually evolving tool use, thought, customs and culture.
It occurs to me that, even though it starts messy, a zombie outbreak may be what leads to a utopia where no one ever dies.

I once came upon a reference I didn't get in another thread about reforming zombies.
I'm not sure if this is what they meant, but I've had the idea of a completely functional member of society, who is also dead, stuck in my head ever since I read that.
Maybe he(or she) could even help kill zombies. A Zombie zombie killer, that would be great.
Anyway, i was wondering what your theories are on what would happen in a post-zombie takeover world, and your thoughts on this movie.

[PhoenixFlame]

The idea of "Evolving" Zombies, in my mind, never made any sense.

Think about it. We know a few facts.

1.) Zombies are, for all intents and purposes, the reanimated corpses of previously living biological creatures with uniform anatomy.
2.) Evolution is the gradual change of living species via passing on superior genetic traits.
3.) Mutation requires the subject be alive to have genetic malfunction.
4.) Necromancy's goal, is to remove all of those meddlesome things we need to do to stay alive, like breathe, and eat. Evolve too.

Therefore, one might say that mangled, animate corpses cannot evolve. They cannot even survive for long periods of time. While their natural lack of functioning vital organs makes them fighteningly resistant to combat damage, their lack of natural regeneration and the fact that they are the target of carrion animals and insects contributes to the fact that, through sheer attrition, zombies would "die" from exposure within days after reanimation.

Edit: Zombies could not have "instincts" as, due to their lack of a functioning brain, cannot have intellegence, including that ingrained intellegence that we call "instinct." Zombies merely have the "programming" that whatever magic or disease that reanimated them gives them.

[pictish]

When I'm older, I must do a degree in zombology. Clearly I've not been thinking hard enough about this. To me, zombies where inherently doomed as is anyway due to their food demand to reproduction rate of given food supply >.>

[Elmer J.]

The idea of "Evolving" Zombies, in my mind, never made any sense.

Think about it. We know a few facts.

1.) Zombies are, for all intents and purposes, the reanimated corpses of previously living biological creatures with uniform anatomy.
2.) Evolution is the gradual change of living species via passing on superior genetic traits.
3.) Mutation requires the subject be alive to have genetic malfunction.
4.) Necromancy's goal, is to remove all of those meddlesome things we need to do to stay alive, like breathe, and eat. Evolve too.

Therefore, one might say that mangled, animate corpses cannot evolve. They cannot even survive for long periods of time. While their natural lack of functioning vital organs makes them fighteningly resistant to combat damage, their lack of natural regeneration and the fact that they are the target of carrion animals and insects contributes to the fact that, through sheer attrition, zombies would "die" from exposure within days after reanimation.

Edit: Zombies could not have "instincts" as, due to their lack of a functioning brain, cannot have intellegence, including that ingrained intellegence that we call "instinct." Zombies merely have the "programming" that whatever magic or disease that reanimated them gives them.

Maybe I should make myself more clear.I was not speaking of evolution in the darwinian sense, but rather simple gradual change.

As for zombies having instincts, the general thought with viral zombies is that it only reactivated basic survival instincts, but that's al any organism started with, so I don't see why a zombie couldn't discover that a stick beats down the living better than it's hands, and then go from there.

Also, i don't think that fact four applies here because we aren't talking of magical zombies, but viral ones, which are really an accident.

[Kikuichimonji]

But a zombie is all hunger. There's no thought. If there was even a simple thought in its mind, it might grow smarter. But there's not that one thought, the catalyst needed for change. Zombies are closer to machines than life. If you left your computer on for a couple thousand years, it would still be the same damned computer (broken, but still the same). It's just as ridiculous to think of a zombie evolving.

[Magic E-Mail Chicken]

Brain cells cant reproduce like bone and skin cells, so for a brain to repair/improve itself is a huge streach.

[Archbio]

Considering how huge a stretch it already is to have corpses come back to life and amble around motivated by pure reptilian instinct, trying to eat everything warm blooded in their path; I'll allow George A. Romero to suggest that, given this miracle of science fiction, maybe other things can happen to the undead.

Like the resurfacing of memories and conditionning suggested in the third installement of that series: Day of the Dead. The accumulation of new knowledge? Maybe not...

[PhoenixFlame]

Maybe I should make myself more clear.I was not speaking of evolution in the darwinian sense, but rather simple gradual change.

As for zombies having instincts, the general thought with viral zombies is that it only reactivated basic survival instincts, but that's al any organism started with, so I don't see why a zombie couldn't discover that a stick beats down the living better than it's hands, and then go from there.

Also, i don't think that fact four applies here because we aren't talking of magical zombies, but viral ones, which are really an accident.

1.) Evolution, for all intents and purposes, is gradual change via what I described. What I believe you suggest is, "Can zombies learn?"

2.) I'll give you this. Basic survival instincts, however, such as... Hunger. Big stretch here, considering that if zombies can feel hunger, but not pain, due to cessation of certain nerve functions to the brain, is highly improbable, but still. No, I do not think they could learn, because to learn requires that the brain be properly functioning to produce logical thought, which, requires functioning vital organs to operate it.

3.) You should have made that clear in the original post. However, necromantic zombies and "natural" zombies are more similar than you might think.

[Kikuichimonji]

Clarification: all I meant by "Zombies are hunger" means that all they do is try to eat. I didn't mean they actually felt hunger. Like what PhoenixFlame said above.

[The_Bear]

I'm pretty sure zombies would die before they "evolved" (which I don't think they would anyway, but more on that in the next paragraph). Zombies are prone to lost limbs, insects, parasites, decomposition, and other stuff that eventually takes them to the point of no longer being able to function. Without any way to heal or recover, or even think about doing so, zombies would eventually die in a matter of weeks.

I don't think zombies would evolve because A) They don't have brains to develop, and B) They don't reproduce (infecting doesn't count). Another thing to point out is that zombies don't have instincts or intelligence. Even primitive cavemen knew (or learned, eventually) to avoid the giant mammoth if you wanted to get to the river. A zombie would stumble in the straightest path, which in this scenario is through the mammoth. Again, this is becasue zombies have no living tissue, and thus no brain.

Besides, zombies are gross.

[Derfel]

I dont think zombies could evolve because of energy purposes. Now I will admit, I am nowhere near a zombie expert, so I don't really know how they work, but, being a big science guy I know that if zombies run out of food, like people, then they would die pretty quick because with their body goin on half efficiency or less they cant produce much energy, so when they run out of energy they die, so they would have no time to evolve.

But if there is some better way to explain their fuel source someone please just yell at me, yell at me kindly and in a friendly manner though.

[Toastburner B]

As other people have said on this thread, I don't believe it's logical that zombies would evolve.

Then again...since when has logic applied to zombies? :confused:

But, I look at it this way: George A. Romero practically wrote the book on the zombie movie, so he can have zombies do whatever he wants.

[Loyal]

As far as I can see, the only possible "evolution" for Zombies is in fact the evolution of the creature that got reanimated.

So basically, human-borne zombies of today will be significantly different from human-borne zombies of the next evolutionary cycle, just because it's the human evolving.

But as for the evolution occuring when they reach the Undead stage, there's just no scientific way. Any mutation that did occur would have to be caused by outside sources (Radiation genetically altering the 'flesh', some further magic changing the chemical makeup of it, environmental pressures causing an adverse change, etc).

[phil_]

What about the G-virus? Isn't that what made RE2's biggest nasty the biggest nasty? And he mutated post-mortem. So atleast, there's precedent for zombies changing after they are reanimated.

Now, for Mike's opinion: "If there is a living biological component, it's the virus. The virus can evolve. Those zombies that 'propogate' the most have better versions of the virus. Given an unlimited supply of living flesh, gradually you would get better versions of the virus. Also given that zombies have only two functions, eating and moving, they would evolve faster as there would only be two things to optimize (eating and reproducing are the same thing here). Add on the natural tendency of viruses to evolve under any circumstance, and the idea of an evolving zombie becomes plausible."

[Astral Harmony]

William Birkin did not die. The G-Virus revitalized his cellular functions and mutated him. He became a living testament to the raw power of his greatest creation yet.

It really depends on how the body is reanimated and what we're referring to when explaining evolution. Basically, if you're asking if the zombie evolves directly, the answer is most obviously no. "Evolution" as observed in the undead will only occur due to what animated the body to begin with. It can be thought of as evolution, but rather it's just mutation brought on by what created the zombie. A zombie is a zombie. It's not a living thing. It's not an intelligent thing. It doesn't change with time or with environment on the evolutionary level. Any changes observed in zombies that appear to be evolution is really mutation, brought about by the various methods, such as necromancy, viruses, or radiation from some stray meteor originating from the planet Venus.

In the case of using voodoo and drugs to reduce a living person to a zombie-like state, that's an area that leaves question marks around my head.