SSBM ping pong ball of death

[Psrdirector]

Alright it is said your good at a combate game, like ssbm when you can use the worst carictures and dominate people, I think im pretty good at this.

Many people think jiggly puff is one of the worse characure's in the game, so one when I was playing with my friends and they told me to use only him, not sheik (about 85% maybe, juggling is fun) so I used jiggly puff, now they want me to use sheik and not jiggly puff.

In large arenas, she is probly the best person to use, by useing roll out, you charge for a bit then when your sparkly, you wait for someone to come near, then you launch at them, sending them to there death.

Now roll out is very hard to use in two situations, one is if someone tries to use down attack on you, actually this isnt hard if you know roll out, you launch in one direction then quickly push in the other, you will spin out then snap back, hitting the poor fool who tried to attack you from above, the secound is on really small stages, like pokemon trophy or others like that. Since roll out sends you well really really far its hard to use with out suiciding your self, you use the same tactic as the one for someone attack from above, but it is risky as hell, cause well what you do is launch yourself off the cliff away from your opnent and then send your self back, often from off the side of the level, then you nail them.

Some thing really fun to do is in some levels if your good at timing it, you launch your self off something, nailing someone, or you arch it so you can hit someone farther then the move goes.

Jiggly puff is the all mighty ping pong ball of doom. You people out there should try it, roll out is a really strong move, maybe to good.

[lazy man]

This reminds me of something my friends and I do. We all become Jigglypuff, go to Final Destination, and pretty much only use rollout. It's just really funny when someone puts up a shield and the person goes flying past you over the edge to their doom. So many laughs can come from the match itself, and the commentary we make up along with it (along with our cries of agony as we send our Jigglypuff to its doom).

Seriously though, any character in that game can be good. You just need to think up a way to use them and do their best to perfect the strategy you thought up. Like what I do with Luigi, who happens to be my joke character. I just sit around and do his over B move, then do whatever I can when someone gets close. It's a crappy strategy, but it works when executed right. Same goes with any character, really.

[EVILNess]

Jigglypuff is probably the most underestimated character in the game, mainly because of its utter suckiness in the first game. However, in this game it is a Melee machine. When you use arerial melee attacks, while not powerful, it can float back out of most characters melee attack reach right after laying down 3 or more kicks. I find doing a small jump, then laying a few small kicks and floating back about 3 paces in front or behind a victim, and then pounding them or using rollout when they rush in. But I try not to use rollout unless I can get a sneak attack in, because I usually kill myself when I use it. But anyway, Puff is one of my top 3 fighters.

So change Jigglypuff's costume to his crown, and bow before King 'Puff.

[Psrdirector]

yes, when i first started using roll out, i would often send my self to an early demise. One game i had about 15 kills, the next highes was 4, i lost by about 6... yeah i suicided a crap load.

[The_Bear]

Whenever I play as Jigglypuff, about 1/5 the time, I always put it into the green bandana costume. All fear kung-fu master Jigglypuff! I'm very fond of the roll-reverse trick that most people never see coming. Bt alas, rolling is a great way to inflict many a suicide. I also really like the pound attack because it juggles and has quite a lot of reach for a tiny fist. It's amasing how much the puff has improved since the first game, which now seems so primitive.

[Astral Harmony]

All of my friends underestimate Jigglypuff as well until I show what she can do with me at the controls. A guy skilled at Pickachu lost to me easily on the final stage ["He didn't know about the rolling attack, heh heh heh!"] and I can't count how many other matches I've won with her. I'm also damn good with Mr Game N Watch, but my main will always be Marth...in black armor so that I can quote Monty Python the whole time.

[Mike McC]

The character you need to use to really demoralize people is Pichu. If you beat them using Pichu, then they can only feel shame.

But yeah, once you learn how to effectively use the 'puff, he kicks much ass.

[secretskull]

The best way to annoy people with Jigglypuff is his down B move, if you time it correctly its devastating. The fact that Jigglypuff had it in the first one improved him in my eye slightly.

[PyrosNine]

Ha! Even in the original I could kick ass with the Puff. In a round of Vs with my friends, they kept switching me from character to character in hopes of finding the one character I could not fight with. I fought all three of my friends after they appointed me Jiggllypuff, After several "sleep" moves, I had made myself a victor. Her sleep move is one of the strongest in the game, yet difficult to master. Only once have I even had it used on me, and it was a level 9 AI bot.

My worst character to play as turned out to ganondorf, but they still perished by my hands. Weak and pathetic fools!

[Astral Harmony]

Pichu's actually not bad. Granted, it damages itself with its lightning attacks and its very lightweight. But still, it's attacks are deadlier than Pikachu's. You could do well with it if you balanced your assault with a little more item use.

My first character was Peach. When it came down to A Charge attacks, Peach dominated. Then again, my friends could never take her out, most because of how long she can hover and parasol her way back on stage.

I guess nowadays I'm using Dr Mario, Captain Falcon, Zelda, and Young Link. Young Link owns Link, hands down.

[Kikuichimonji]

Young Link owns Link, hands down.
You have not seen the fluid grace with which I wield Link. Young Link's attacks are too weak, the bombs don't make people fly as far, and the same with the spin attack.

Jigglypuff is very good in multiplayer, simply because people can't always remember the spinning ball of doom. However, she has very few quick finishing moves - sleep works, but I can't think of any others besides smashes, maybe pound.

The character you need to use to really demoralize people is Pichu. If you beat them using Pichu, then they can only feel shame.
It's an undebatable fact that Pichu sucks. It even says that it's best used for handicap matches in the game itself. Poor little elecric rodent >.<

[Psrdirector]

well people used to say that it was undebateble that jigglypuff sucks, and from this form, time and time again people say jigglypuff is kick ass, yes, if you find the plan you can kill with every one

[Fenris]

I usually practice against a jigglypuff, but recently started against Link. I find him a bit more difficult. I've been practicing with Zelda/Shiek recently, and love playing as Shiek. Her up-B smash attack is brutal.

[sasuto]

AHHH FINALLY SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME NOTICED THE PUFF'S GREAT POTENTIAL... Man, everytime I play I use jigglypuff... so far when I use here none of my friends can beat me... that roll out I got timed perfectly now so I just jump up in the air and start to roll.... I release at the right moment and BAM out goes the opponent.... also you know where she puts everyone to sleep??... THAT"S AWESOME you do that and then after they're asleep you do DOWN + B and they're dead.... I LOVE THE PUFF... my best field with him/her is hyrule... I'm awesome there ^^ my friends can't even beat me with roy, marth or link... however I do sometimes get beat with my friend using kirby... he's underratted to in my oppinion......

[Psrdirector]

roll out is best in large areas, its harder to use in small. Kirby i find is not underrated, its a tad anoying, they can break your juggles, eh.

I think jiggly is the most underated in the game, as i said already

[netrider6]

I beat the Gigabowser, Mewtwo, Ganondorf event with Jigglypuff. I was in awe afterwards. Here's where I learned of it:

LEVEL 51:
YOU: Choose (3 lives)
COMPUTER: Giga Bowser, Gannondorf, MewTwo (3 lives each)

JIGGLYPUFF METHOD:

I don't know WHO to give credit for this because I recieved at least ten emails,
maybe more, keying me in to THE move. Therefore, I'll list everyone who sent me
the information before this update. A few other ideas were sent to me but this
is the only one that worked well so I'm only crediting people here who gave me
this particular strategy.

Use Jigglypuff. Yes, Jigglypuff! Jiggly has a move that is really cheap which
can KO any of these guys in 1-3 hits depending on how close they are to the
edge. DOWN and B, AKA Rest. Rest will easily take out Bowser since he's so big,
and with some luck will KO the others enough to give you a fighting chance. You
have to be right inside of an opponent for it to work, and sometimes even then
it won't work, but when it does, it wreaks havoc! Bowser is easiest to defeat
this way, as I've said, but you may not want to just go for him. When Bowser is
alive, he'll be able to hit you so often that you'll be able to perform Rest
over and over. Remember, you don't wake up until you're hit or a long time
passes. So one technique is to try and get a good start by focusing on KOing
Gannon and MewTwo. Try doing this at the edge of the stage because it'll KO them
faster and sometimes Gannon or MewTwo will jump off the edge accidentally as
well.

No matter what you do, you're going to end up killing Bowser first this way,
barring some freak accident. I tried a lot of different things after Bowser was
gone and the most effective one was to continue using Rest until you narrow it
down to one opponent. You can just try to jump into the guys and use it, or
there are two moves that might work as well. Forward and B into them and then
use Rest, or down and A (spin) and then Rest. If they're closely surrounding you
and beating you up, just use Rest right away and hope it works.

Once you narrow it down to one guy, I suggest beating them in hand to hand
combat. Dashing at an opponent and hitting A often works, and the you can follow
that up with a quick smash. Often times you can get a fast jump kick in without
being hit. You can also try flying around and avoiding the enemy until a good
item appears. If you stay calm, though, it's quite possible to beat one of these
guys one on one. Be patient, smash at just the right time, and you can do it.
The smash move is the only way besides an item or Rest to send them off the
edge, so don't expect running at them to knock them off.

[NinjaRob]

I tried Jigglypuff on the 51st event using that method and I still couldn't beat it. I got really close though. I think just Ganondorf was left with one life, and he killed me somehow. There was much anger afterward.

[pictish]

In the smash competitive community, jigglypuff is high tier - she's pretty great, but she's not got quite as much going for her as Falcon, Samus, Falco or Peach and certainly not Marth/Sheik/Fox.

Though, she's good for reasons that are not roll out, in fact, roll out's pretty horrible due to it's horrendous start up time, and the fact I'll stand at the edge, wait for you to come at me, side step, stand in neutral stance and have you ricochet off stage. Ah well.

Where jiggly wins is her aerial mobility, which grants her the speed to weave in and out of the opponents range, normally with back air. This mixed with her ability to travel way out to edgeguard and recover absurd horizontal distances with not just pound but upwards pound (pound travels up a bit if you flick up as you pound).

Of course, she also has rest combos, but those are somewhat situational and most can be DI'd out of. There's up throw to rest on the space animals at low damage, and up tilt to rest against other characters depending on percentage....

But then again, that's purely speaking from the competitive community perspective ^^;

[Lucas]

The entire jigglypuff method is weak: take kirby and run to edge, jump off, and wait for people to come to the edge. Then jump down off the ledge, fly up and around them, and then drop in on them. Half the time the idiots will push themselves off, giving you 3-6 free kills.

Jigglypuff, as awesome as you might think she is, isn't all that great a character. After playing against a jigglypuff player for a while the quick strikes that rollout can dish out are easily predicted and countered. I've hucked many swords at jigglies trying to rollout, only to set up a jumping down smash for an easy kill. Apart from the retarded recovery ability that jigglypuff has, there's no real attack potential for the character after roll is removed, since jiggly doesn't move fast, and is thus easy prey for pretty much any character with some speed. Falcon, Samus, Fox types all work very well against the little retarded puff. I've even seen an incredible ness player use pk thunder to stop rollouts. Mario, however, is the most hilarious jigglypuff killer, only that not many people use the italian plumber properly. See a rollout coming? Cape him.

[Psrdirector]

You havnt played someone who uses roll out well. If timed well it better then the carictures every one uses.

Competitive comunity, never heard of it, is this in your head

[Kikuichimonji]

Psrdirector, not to be an ass, but can you at least work on your sentence structure? Your second sentence implies that rollout is better than the rest of the charactrs, which would be a ridiculous thing to say, so you should have said something like "she is better than the rest" rather than it, so that we can be clear you're talking about pink puffball and not her (neutral) B move.

I have to disagree with you. Blocking rollout at the very least prevents all of the damage. While jigglypuff does not suck, she's not uber. Sing is rarely useful in 1v1 matches, and sleep is very hard to do, especially if someone knows you're gonna try it. So while I'm not of the "Jigglypuff is t3h suck" crowd, I'm also not in the "Jigglypuff is t3h |_337 4\/\/3$0|\/|3" group, either.

Ever see anyone good at Peach? It's scary >.< I was amazed how quickly I splattered. Stupid Final Destination stage and its no vertical platforms :mad:

[Psrdirector]

Roll out is a great move, its hard to use, but when you get it right, it is better then the people used most of the time.

I see it used alot in 1v1 matches, by me, to have fun being a ping pong ball of death.

[Fenris]

Ever see anyone good at Peach? It's scary >.< I was amazed how quickly I splattered. Stupid Final Destination stage and its no vertical platforms :mad:

I know I'm not. I tried fighting one when it was at lvl 9, and I got my ass handed to me. I managed to kill it once. (I was playing as Zelda/Shiek.) Final Destination is my favorite level. Your insulting it saddens me :(

[Lucas]

it is better then the people used most of the time. how can a move be better than a person? Sorry, but roll out has an obvious charge up... its easy to dodge, and its easy to counter.
Samus vs. rollout = you're dead with super missile or blaster.
Marth/roy vs. rollout = you're dead with counter.
Link vs. rollout = you get boomerang + bombed, and link avoids it.
Captain falcon/fox/falco vs. rollout = you aren't landing anything on people that fast.
Game and Watch vs. rollout = kay, maybe you can kill the 2D retard.

Sorry, but jiggly just doesn't have the power to match the strongest characters in 1v1. You rollout, i aerial dodge... that's the end of that.

[Mirai Gen]

I'm glad someone mentioned how completely and utterly predictable Rollout is if you're paying attention. This might sound like the rush of non-conformists to the non-conformity, but I'm with everyone who agrees that 'Puff is mostly worthless. Sure, well-timed Sleep/Rollout/Rest are awesome, but given how tough to control she is, the uselessness if the attacks miss, etc etc etc, it's almost pointless.

"But Gen!" you might say, "She's kickass if you get the right moves down!" yeah, well so is everyone else in the game, that's part of the appeal of Smash.

As for me, all I want to know is, what's the difference between the mario clones, or more accurately, Dr. Mario to regular? The tweaky fireball?

[Lucas]

Doctor mario can use the pill rush, which is fairly sexy. Apart from that, they're fairly equal.

To do the pill rush you jump up, pill, cancel your jump and recover down, then pill again and run towards your enemy. Most of them won't be able to dodge both without putting themselves into a considerably easy position to smack.

[Psrdirector]

Dr. Mario is stronger then normal in attack, but i think it is a bit slower or lower jump, i would pull out my guide.... but its with my link adventure hiding in another dimension.

I think that is the diffrence

[rightwhatwasidoing?]

yeah, jiggly's alright, but I prefer Roy, just because I can ^_^

On event 51, its very easy to beat with jiggly, just rollout for the msot part. They'll take their time to walk toward you, and if all else fails, you could probably try the rest. I was left with Ganny being the last guy too, but since he doesnt have any real distance attacks, he'll never see the rollout coming ^_^

has anyone ever beaten The final destination match with Falco? I did once, and it was a BITCH. I could never do it again. Probably because Falco is one of my most suckiest characters ever. Whatever, it was still hard!

[The_Bear]

The only difference I've noticed between Dr. Mario and Mario is that the doctor's pills make that weird "doink" sound when they hit someone. Dr. Mario may also not have a cape, but I'm not sure about that one.

I agree that it's impossible for one character to be totally dominant, Jigglypuff is a real wildcard when it comes to playing styles. That, and he/she has the second greatest comeback range in the game (next to Peach). That's why I prefer to be above-average at a lot of characters (namely Kirby, Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers, and Mario), than dominant with a single character. It makes it harder for my opponents to adjust to my fighting style. The only characters I can't get good with are Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, they're just too...weird.

Lucas, those are all very good tactics in theory. I've successfully used rollout countless times, it's all about the surprise. One suprise trick I'm particularly fond of is turning around right in their space. If they don't block, they get hit, if they block, they often let go to early and take the pain anyway. That, and I've never seen counter correctly timed vs. a rollout

Maybe this debate will be settled if/when the next SB game goes online. But for now, Jigglypuff is still in the top 5.

[Lucas]

That, and I've never seen counter correctly timed vs. a rollout i'm not talking about shield counter, i'm talking about their down B. If you've never gotten countered against roy, you're playing some retardedly bad roy players.

Even then, rollout never works with surprise, seeing as you roll in place for a while, throwing out copious amounts of stars, while making the happy jiggly sound. Rollout works in 4 player matches when people are busy running the hell away from each other. That's about it. In 1v1, Jiggly just doesn't have any fast attacks. if you play against captain falcon/falco/fox, you'll NEVER have time build up your roll, because he'll always be in your face. If you play against any character with a heavy ranged attack... well, you'll have to rely on the > B powderpuff punch.

Even the best Jigglypuff people say that rollout is quite terrible: being able to dodge and dip with the > B punch, along with jiggly's kirby jumps makes him the best for aerial combat, not setting up easy to see and counter attacks

[Astral Harmony]

If you viewed your trophies of the characters (earned when you win in those single player adventure modes or whatever) you can check out the trophies and the difference between the characters will be noted. Dr Mario's pills bounce higher and do more damage than Mario's fireballs. I think the good doctor's cape is shorter, too.

[Psrdirector]

yes his cape is shorter then marios. The diffrence is elementry my dear watson

[The_Bear]

i'm not talking about shield counter, i'm talking about their down B. If you've never gotten countered against roy, you're playing some retardedly bad roy players.

I was talking about the Roy/Marth counter. The "sheild counter" is what I refer to as "blocking". But yeah, you're right, most of the people I play with are light years behind my skill. That's not a brag, even though it sounds like it.

And of course I play four player matches, SSBM is a four player game. If I wanted to play 1v1, I'd play Soul Caliber. SSBM doesn't have the same chaotic flavor when you're just staring down one opponent. But I can imagine that Jigglypuff is less effective then. Then again, near the end of many stock matches is basically mini 1v1, which I win 8 out of 10 times with any character, even Jigglypuff.

Even the best Jigglypuff people say that rollout is quite terrible: being able to dodge and dip with the > B punch, along with jiggly's kirby jumps makes him the best for aerial combat, not setting up easy to see and counter attacks

So exactly who are "the best Jigglypuff people"? I'd like to meet them. Last time I checked, rollout is THE Jigglypuff move of choice. Without it, Jigglypuff is just a weaker Kirby. Your source is badly mistaken.

If you viewed your trophies of the characters (earned when you win in those single player adventure modes or whatever) you can check out the trophies and the difference between the characters will be noted. Dr Mario's pills bounce higher and do more damage than Mario's fireballs. I think the good doctor's cape is shorter, too.

Ah, quite right Armored Bishoujo. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Lucas]

The "sheild counter" is what I refer to as "blocking" See, this is where i see that you don't really play top-tier SSBM. A counter is when you shield at the last possible moment, and you get a blue flash. By doing that you can attack immediately, and you've got a small window of invincibility. Technically this is the best method to counter anything, but its rather difficult unless the move is fairly predictable (falcon punch, rollout, shield breaker, yoshi/bowser stomps).

get a friend to huck stuff at you and try catching. same principle.

And of course I play four player matches, SSBM is a four player game 4 player FFA games aren't really the best place to measure the worth of a character. i can use ganon and kill everyone in a 4 plr ffa without dying, because i'll jump in on fights and drop warlock punches into people. He's a terrible character, but if people are busy he becomes fairly good.

That, however, isn't because he's strong, its because my opponents are already fighting someone else.

Your source is badly mistaken. um.. the > B jiggly puff attack gives him the longest air time and gives him what amounts to an infinite air dodge. There's a reason that falco and fox are top tier characters. speed and manuverability sets up combos. combos deal upwards of 50% dmg for weak happy ones (think falco: grab, v throw, reflector, jump followup). Link too has multiple combo followthroughs. (n airslash deep, wavedash back, slash up, smash up, bomb, jump, throw, ^ B).

Matches i've played at tournaments end when people are hit twice. The first hit sets up around 80% dmg through combos and pins, then the second sets up 120% -> smash. Jiggly players don't use rollout because they're going to have a shell thrown in their face if they try, and even if they did try, should they fail, they lose. > B on the other hand allows jiggly players to switch sides above a character they're dropping down onto, which means they can dodge most attacks, and set up a deep drop combo. Not only that, but the punch also provides an incredible amount of safe air time when evading hammers, stars, or other timed threats.

basically, rollout is a big waste of time.

[The_Bear]

Well, Lucas, you seem quite bent on proving me wrong. Such a shame.

First off, you should have been more specific. Of course I know about the "shield counter", which is actually more like Fox's reflect than a counter, considering it returns projectiles. I will admit that I didn't know it also gave you an attack, as I'm not a fan of standing still in a fight.

4 player FFA games aren't really the best place to measure the worth of a character.

That's funny, because you're completely wrong. In FFA (or melee, which is also in the name of the game), you have to be alert and pay attention to 3 potentional threats at the same time. Concentrate on one person, the others will take advantage of your distraction, and the person you picked on will be all over you in the next match. If you begin to dominate, you become the target of the "unwritten rule", which is to gang up on anyone with a large lead. You have to choose your targets and change and time your actions in order to take advantage of other player's weaknesses. In 1v1, it's just you and someone else. No variety. No diversity. No melee. Seems to me like FFA is not only the perfect way to test the worth of character, but more importantly, the worth of the player.

And you still didn't answer my question about "the best Jifflypuff people". You don't know who's the best at playing Jigglypuff, so everything you said after that is nothing but a flase and invalid assumption.

[RedScar]

Wow. that's a lot about one of the pink puffballs. Jiggly requires timeing, decption, and pratice. If your missing one of those your missing alot and become a puffball pancake.

I won't say Jigglypuff is the worst. Be she is no way the best.

[Lucas]

You don't know who's the best at playing Jigglypuff, so everything you said after that is nothing but a flase and invalid assumption. Yet you ignored everything i said about speed and combo ability, and you're telling me that i'm making the big assumptions? Hilarious. I just told you how jigglypuff is played, and i told you that when played properly using his air tactics he only needs to land 2 hits, and is considerably harder to counter.

I will admit that I didn't know it also gave you an attack, It also don't wear down your shield. Yet more info for the masses

That's funny, because you're completely wrong. In FFA (or melee, which is also in the name of the game), you have to be alert and pay attention to 3 potentional threats at the same time. Concentrate on one person, the others will take advantage of your distraction, and the person you picked on will be all over you in the next match. If you begin to dominate, you become the target of the "unwritten rule", which is to gang up on anyone with a large lead. You have to choose your targets and change and time your actions in order to take advantage of other player's weaknesses Yeah, um, buddy, all you said there has to do with player skill, not with character ability. I said you can play ANY character in FFA and perform reasonably well. Saying that Jiggly's rollout is awesome because ppl in 4 players are busy tells you nothing about the move's power, just about the conditions. I said warlock punch has the same effect. You cant tell me that warlock punch pwns, unless you're one of the lamers that watches people fight, then drops down and warlock punches for 2 kills. The move is retardedly slow, it can be blocked, it WILL be counted if you play at tournaments, and it generally isn't effective against opponents playing moderate to fast characters. DK's charge punch on the other hand is a VERY good attack. It takes no time to execute after being charged and remains a threat that your opponent has to deal with the entire time its ready.

Rollout is slow, you and i both know that. Not only is rollout slow, but its most effectively used from large distances. So to me, what you're saying is that when you play 4 player ffas, you run away from people, charge a roll, then run into the fight and knock a few ppl out. Again, that tactic has nothing to do with your skill, its just you taking advantage of the others' inability to recover while fighting amongst themselves. Link can spam bombs/arrows, Ness can thunder, samus can snipe and missle spam. Link's bombs, however, give him a 3rd jump, while Ness's thunder can be used to recover, as well as stun people recovering at the start of an ^ B move, and Samus's weaponry is effective close range because once charged they don't need firing time.

Rollout, sadly, has none of that.

His punch, however, takes almost no time to come out, moves you out of the way of trouble in the air, gives jiggly the best recovery in the game, and it juggles fairly well. There's no contest here, its the punch over rollout anyday.

[Red Mage Black]

Well, Rollout is just another way to get a self-destruct if you ask me.

Lucas: It isn't the bomb that gives Link a third jump, it's the spin attack. Samus' weaponry is also effective ranged if used right. The pound attack is the most pathetic way to get back up. Rollout really doesn't take that long to charge, I've fought people where they're close range and I did full charge Rollout to them.

That quote is right as well, if you just go to attack one person the others will take advantage. It isn't skill, it's just minding the other players actions.

[Cloud3514]

from the looks of it, most of the people posting are giving Jigglypuff too much credit. rollout is indead powerful, but easy to stop and dodge. all you have to do is use your sheild for the heavier, slower characteres (Gannondorf, Bowser, ect.), and the faster characters (Young Link, Sheik, Fox, Pikachu (my personal favorate), ect.) just have to jump on a platform (final destination is big enough just to keep dodgeing Jiggly's attacks)

[The_Bear]

Well, Lucas it seems that this discussion between us has gone on long enough. I'd rather not attract the attention of the wrathful mods with our banter. Therefore, I will no longer continue to counter or refute your points (but let the records show that I could have, and that it actually was kind of fun. No hard feelings, Lucas).

Another one of my favorite tactics with rollout is to gain a height advantage, dropping down whle charging the rollout up, then releasing it when either I see a good opportunity or when someone gets too close for comfort. It's effective as a recover tactic and as a querky way to take out a distracted foe.

I have been the victim of a rollout self-destruct many times, mostly in the Kongo Jungle level. As well as the other DK levels, whos names escape me at the moment. And let's not forget Pokemon Floats and Mario's Rasinbow Cruise, those are impossible to do good on with the puff. Final Destination and Hyrule Castle are definetly the best places for Jigglypuff, although I will always have a soft spot for Brinstar Depths.

[Lucas]

Lucas: It isn't the bomb that gives Link a third jump, it's the spin attack. The spin attack isn't a jump, and the bomb's dmg if you hit yourself with it gives you an air reset. Please, i know what i'm talking about O_o.

[The_Bear]

How are you supposed to hit yourself with a bomb in midair? I think that holding it would take too long, making you lose too much height in order to recover. Do you throw the bomb straight up or something?

[Psrdirector]

Up b is the third jump, and that is the spin attack for link

[Kikuichimonji]

You can't pull out a bomb and let it asplode once you're already falling - you don't have enough time. I've tried. Lots. The bomb is only useful for very long jumps that you plan ahead of time - going down the right side of Hyrule Temple (yes, you can do it without a bomb, but it's harder.) or the many hard jumps on Brinstar Depths. The reason it works is because the game gives you back your third jump once you're hit in the air - without that, edgeguarding would be insanely easy. Edgeguarding is also the reason that Yoshi is invincible during his second jump (I think he still takes damage, but doesn't get sent flying away) - if you got hit back from the ledge again, you wouldn't be able to use a second jump. And Link's third jump is indeed the spin attack. The air dodge is useful, but has less recovery. It's nice for setting up the hookshot, but calling it his third jump ignores the awesomeness of the spin attack.

You also can't throw it into yourself while in the air, either. Even if you had it out before the jump, you can only throw straight up and horizontally. Neither of these will help you, as you can't catch up to the horizontal bomb, and you can't stay in the same vertical plane while you're recovering (that would mean you're not going anywhere).

The shield counter does indeed work. However, like Lucas said, it's a little impractical to use in close combat. It requires just the right timing, and focusing on getting that timing will probably get you hit anyway. Of course, I also have trouble reflecting stuff with my shield, so that just might be my problem. It also probably gets easier if you practice. I never really have a chance to counter, anyway - Link's hookshot makes people either approach you really fast, shoot from afar, or come in from the air.

The spin attack works quite well as a jump. The trick is to fall lower than the platform before using it. If they're close to the edge, you can use the spin attack and hit them. If they're a little bit aways, use the hookshot to grab the side and time your spin attack so you barely make the ledge.

I have trouble believing that the matches end in two hits. Combos are very hard to pull off - at least, ones that involve more than three hits. A skilled player should be able to at least dodge the second or third or so on attack. There are times where you can't avoid a hit, but I can't see you getting more than 35% off of such a combo.

[Lucas]

I have trouble believing that the matches end in two hits. Combos are very hard to pull off - at least, ones that involve more than three hits. A skilled player should be able to at least dodge the second or third or so on attack. There are times where you can't avoid a hit, but I can't see you getting more than 35% off of such a combo. Oh, believe me on this, they happen. Lots. If you don't believe me, you can get a N64 emulator and go online with kaillera to show that they're possible in ssb. The trick is avoiding the first hit, and like i said before, Jiggly just does that really well. Has anyone ever seen Pk cross comboed, for example? Unless you're playing at a very high level, i'd doubt it, but i've seen plenty of people use it to finish off combos that end in a light float.

Edgeguarding is also the reason that Yoshi is invincible during his second jump (I think he still takes damage, but doesn't get sent flying away) - if you got hit back from the ledge again, you wouldn't be able to use a second jump. Edgehogging is why you use the triple bomb. You throw the bomb up, then spin towards the stage, then back towards the bomb. This allows you a third jump (count: you get hit, you jump in the air for recov, then you spin (2nd) then you bombjump, giving you 3). Regardless, if someone hogs the edge, your spinjump fails, and if it fails, you die, and if you die, your opponent laughs at you.

[MetaKnight0]

KillaOR is the best Jigglypuff to my knowledge.

Rollout can be stopped by Fox or Falco's SHINE.

Link pulls bomb > smash-throw bomb in air > Spin Attack when the lag from bomb throw clears > last hit from Spin Attack hits bomb > get third jump back

[RedScar]

Way to revive a 2 mounth dead topic. Aslo has anyone seen the Gamecube+SSBM comercial, it's funny at 2 AM in the morning.

[VA_Ninja]

Necro'd!

Since it's here, I might as well post this.

Top

Sheik
Fox
Marth

Upper

Falco
Peach
Captain Falcon
Samus
Jigglypuff

High

Ganondorf
Mario
Dr. Mario
Luigi

Mid

Link
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Roy
Zelda
Young Link
Yoshi

Lower

Ness
Donkey Kong
Kirby
Mewtwo

Bottom

Bowser
Pichu

A ranking of the best characters in SSBM. Not my personal opinion, just to note. Jigglypuff is in the Upper teir, meaning she's not the best, but certainly tourny worthy. Basically anyone worse then Luigi shouldn't be considered for tourny play.

[RedScar]

Where'd you get all that from? You make that up your self?

[Kikuichimonji]

The topic, she is dead. Make a new one if the discussion needs continuing. Just because one person raises a thread doesn't make it alright for other people to post.

[Mirai Gen]

The topic, she is dead. Make a new one if the discussion needs continuing. Just because one person raises a thread doesn't make it alright for other people to post.
It isn't? I could've sworn that it cleaned up the forum nicely up until it reached 60 post limit, in which case repost.

Unless the mods have spoken wrong.

and VA, I'd like to see what causes you to say that list. I mean, try running around and dodging with Pichu. You can't hit him. And you have to use low attacks and mid attacks to even be able to strike at him if he stands still. And Ness? Are you kidding? PK Fire, PK Fire, PK Fire, > Smash. His yo-yo 'walk the dog' held smashes are brutal if you can get them right, and PK thunder-to-self is INSANE knockback.

[VA_Ninja]

and VA, I'd like to see what causes you to say that list. I mean, try running around and dodging with Pichu. You can't hit him. And you have to use low attacks and mid attacks to even be able to strike at him if he stands still. And Ness? Are you kidding? PK Fire, PK Fire, PK Fire, > Smash. His yo-yo 'walk the dog' held smashes are brutal if you can get them right, and PK thunder-to-self is INSANE knockback.
The list I got from a friend, who got it from an official source. I believe the list is updated by pros who keep track of tourny winnings.

I don't play much of the game myself, as I was a mostly casual player and I sold my copy several months ago. Even the game bio says that playing with Pichu puts you at a disadvantage, so it makes sense for him to be at the bottom. Ness is actually under consideration to be bumped up a tier after winning a small-time tournament.