Fame...?

[Mirai Gen]

I'm really confused by popularity these days in the epic scope of the times. I don't quite understand trying to sell John Lennon's toilet seat for thousands, and it's always perplexed me how bands like Metalica, Beatles, and such get to epic popularity to a downright ludicrous degree...

More accurately, this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7347872738), even though it's for charity, makes me blink.

It's art. Art from a cartoonist...what's the big deal? Why do people want a slice of "that popular guy" pie?

[CallmePrismatic]

Is this a thread for fame and sudden/monumental popularity in general or just wondering why a good piece of art being sold PURELY FOR CHARITY is garnering massive bids from one guy (this holywaste character)? If it is the latter I suspect that if it was just the artwork being sold the piece would only have gotten as far as 1k, maybe 1.5, but when people have a chance to donate to something they believe is worthwhile AND get a piece of whatever from their favorite artist they tend to put more money up, and to me that doesn't seem like such a bad thing.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I think what he's asking is why people these days want stuff that either popular people owned or made (i.e. signed baseballs). I think it's mostly because people want to be able to say "hey, that guy on tv sat on this toilet seat" so they can have a deeper connection with their stars. Or, it could be that they want more popularity amongst their friends by showcasing it to them all.

Or, in this case, it could be for charity. But, I suspect PA bumped up the price to begin with to make more charitable funds.

[RaiRai]

I hardly think Penny Arcade bumped up the price at all, even Fuitad has made a bid. It's for a good cause, and these things are pretty rare to come across. For a collector or fan, it could just be another peice to add to the collection.

(I'd surely bid if an item used by Masamune Shirow went on sale.)

[Wolf99x]

Personally, I'd be motivated by nostalgia and just the feeling of acquiring something so valuable/collectible.

But not like a toilet seat. no.

Personally, I'd go for any of the KITT models they built for Knight Rider.

[Lockeownzj00]

But most of the stigma of it being collectible is purported by the people selling such things. It's a manufactured, non-existent "economy" that everyone just accepts--it's value is literally in the mind.

And even though this is true and people do make decisions based off of this, my point is that when something is considered rare, suddenly everyone wants it. Why? There's no logical reason to want to own something rare, if it is just to "collect" it. It's a paradox: you own it to feel like you have a piece of something important; that in this niche or this part of the world, at least you have something that makes you unique; you have something that others envy you. Why do they envy you? Because they want to have something for which they will be envied. It's a neverending cycle, and the only way to get rid of it is to just smash it all away in your head--I stopped "collecting" things awhile ago.

The difference between...accumulating, and collecting, I suppose, is the stock you put into it. I think the important thing isn't to get attached. Be realistic, that is--I used to be so overprotective of my music collection, and I still am, in a way: it took a long time to download all that stuff. But in a way, now, I don't care. If my hard drive crashes and burns tomorrow, only the directly pragmatic things for day to day activities will be lost--even my music. Oh well, it's gone--it was good while it lasted, and I can rebuild it. Once one becomes attached, they'll go to extreme lengths--often losing sight of the reason they started in the first place.

[adamark]

But most of the stigma of it being collectible is purported by the people selling such things. It's a manufactured, non-existent "economy" that everyone just accepts--it's value is literally in the mind.

And even though this is true and people do make decisions based off of this, my point is that when something is considered rare, suddenly everyone wants it. Why? There's no logical reason to want to own something rare, if it is just to "collect" it. It's a paradox: you own it to feel like you have a piece of something important; that in this niche or this part of the world, at least you have something that makes you unique; you have something that others envy you. Why do they envy you? Because they want to have something for which they will be envied.
Exactly why diamond rings are completely worthless pieces of property for people to own. The rareity of natural diamonds makes them harder to gather from the earth, so in turn these elements cost more, but they really mean nothing at all. Their value is entirely imposed, a human creation. The only realistic value is the industrial cutting strength of diamonds.

[Wolf99x]

Actually, Diamonds are not rare at all. They've just been monopolized so that only a few are made available to the public, thus keeping the prices up.

[RaiRai]

Actually, Diamonds are not rare at all. They've just been monopolized so that only a few are made available to the public, thus keeping the prices up.

Even that is open to debate. The store I work at sells diamond rings for insane prices, but for some reason, we're still able to stock more. And there are 500 stores nationwide. Therefore no real shortage. It's just seen that diamonds should be worth more than your average cubic zircona or substitute. (Strange that, considering oftentimes the cubic zircona actually looks better than the diamond. I know they're manufactured, but they're so darn pretty in the light!)

[Wolf99x]

That's the point I was making. There is no shortage. The diamond cartels have more than enough, but they, being "smart" businessmen, let out only enough to keep the public satisfied while still being able to sell at rediculous prices as if there actually was a shortage.

I'm starting to believe the same might be true for gasoline. Here's why. How many dinosaurs, animals, and plants do you think would have to have died in the Middle East, practically on top of one another in almost the same place, to produce the amount of oil the region has been producing for about 100 years?

Think about that for a while.

[RaiRai]

That's the point I was making. There is no shortage. The diamond cartels have more than enough, but they, being "smart" businessmen, let out only enough to keep the public satisfied while still being able to sell at rediculous prices as if there actually was a shortage.

Hang on, that's a little contradictive. If you know there's no shortage, and I know there's no shortage then how are they only letting out enough to keep the public satisfied? The fact these things can be bought on demand means that they're not exactly holding out on us at all. And they're not exactly 'smart' if they're mass producing rings with similar diamonds available at any point in time, that's just business itself.

[Wolf99x]

Because, there's nothing that can actually be done from a legal standpoint to prove that there's no shortage.

Despite what they are presumably doing, it is completely legal under the circumstances.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Feh, I don't even think that diamonds look that nice at all. I'd find a colored gem of some sort much more aesthetically pleasing.

[RaiRai]

Because, there's nothing that can actually be done from a legal standpoint to prove that there's no shortage.

Despite what they are presumably doing, it is completely legal under the circumstances.

Where are you getting this idea that there IS a shortage? I really don't understand your reasoning behind this. Surely my example, based on actual knowledge on a jewellery department, shows that there ISN'T a so-called shortage and that the prices are just high because companies can get away for charging so much for mediocre diamonds just because of the stereotype that diamonds are expensive.

I'd like to see proof of a 'shortage' in diamonds. As all of the searches I've performed in the last 5 minutes show diamonds 'on demand'. There isn't a shortage at all, they're just classed under different catagories depending on price.

The 4 C's:

Clarity
Cut
Color
Carat

All of these factor into how expensive a diamond is. That's why stores like the one I work at can afford to sell diamond rings starting from £20. Because the quality of diamond they have doesn't even begin to compare.

[Wolf99x]

Umm...yeah, I know my point seems to be a little unclear, but you've kinda proven it.

...and that the prices are just high because companies can get away for charging so much for mediocre diamonds just because of the stereotype that diamonds are expensive.

Which was that point. People believe diamonds are expensive because they are rare, which of course, they aren't. And diamond companies easily gouge based on that belief.

Not all diamonds are expensive beyond belief, I'll admit that. But there's a good majority that are.

[RaiRai]

It's not because they are considered rare that they are expensive, though. It's because of a stereotype that they're 'womens best friend'. The whole 'diamonds are forever' bullcrap that people buy into. Not because they're considered to be valuable for monetary terms, unless you are actually buying genuine grade A diamonds.

[Wolf99x]

Point conceded. But were the market to become oversaturated with diamonds, then prices would go down yes?

Threre are more diamonds available than actually being sold. Just like there's more oil in the world than we are led to believe.

However, if those markets became saturated, then prices would go down and the respective monopolies and cartels would lose power.

[Lockeownzj00]

Yeah--"true" forms of anything (ie "real" diamonds) always baffled me. All my down-to-earth-girlfriends never cared about arbitrary values on objects like that, so we would always give each other the substitutes ;)

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah--"true" forms of anything (ie "real" diamonds) always baffled me. All my down-to-earth-girlfriends never cared about arbitrary values on objects like that, so we would always give each other the substitutes ;)
Thank christ for women like that. I know what you mean, Locke.

And yes, as a sidenote, I was asking why famous people's objects - not neccesarily rare or 'rare' in the case of diamonds - are so expensive.

I mean, thousands of dollars for artists that are still alive, and are still producing art? I don't think I would pay thousands for Masamune Shirow, or even Yoshitaka Amano, for that matter, and he's one of my favorite artists.

[RaiRai]

But the point is, not only are you collecting something you are a fan of, but you've got your chance to make a difference in raising money for good means. Some of these people may as well have gone out and given that money directly to a charity, but they've chosen this route and as such they're getting something else out of the deal too.

I wouldn't pay thousands for Shirow, but that's because I've been collecting for so long that I know what prices are ridiculous and which ones are suitable.