Pro Wrestling?

[TheZeroMan]

As a long time fan, I just want to know if anyone else is lacks the pride to admit they (still) like it....

So does anybody still watch it?

Or as I like to say torture themselves.












P.S. I know its fake.

[The Devil Himself]

It's just not my cup of...um...tea, or something. I mean, since it's faked and all.

[TheZeroMan]

Yes but do you watch ER and say they aren't really doctors? Or Law and Order and think they aren't real cops and lawyers? Why the double standard?

Lame answer but true. And that All I can defend really because as whole the "pro wrestling" industry has sucked major balls the last two years.

[The Devil Himself]

Actually I don't watch those. I hardly watch TV at all!

[BMHadoken]

By Last two years you mean "Ever Since it was created" right?

And it is an unfair comparison...ER is about actors portraying doctors, these 'wrestlers' are being 'themselves'...except not...and in tights...

The only good thing to come outta wrestling is 'The Rock', because The Rundown was a great movie...

[Dynamite Kid]

I did watch a decent amount of wrestling (hence my nickname) but a lot of the guys I used to like are long gone. The only "new" guys who are any good are Cena and Orton (and that's mostly because his dad was the Man). And Lance Storm, mostly because he's a cool guy. No Raven, no Stan Hansen, no Macho Man, and all the real old school guys like Race and Steamboat won't come back. Wrestling isn't too good now.

[Viktor Von Russia]

I agree that many of the newer wrestlers aren't that great. However, Cena and Orton aren't the only ones with talent. Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, and a few others are all pretty top-notch. What I can't stand about wrestling nowadays are the things they put in between matches that they call storylines. I can't remember the last time I saw something in an interview or out of ring conversation that interested me. Wait, actually I can. Owen Hart as the Blue Blazer was priceless.

[Illuminatus]

I was remotely amused by wrestling for a few months. I can understand some of its appeal. But not all of it.

Did somebody mention talent? If I had a 20" bicep I could be a friggin wrestler, all I have to do is think up a bizarre personality and talk a lotta smack. The rest is pretending to be hurt. Which is easy. I'm sorry but there's no talent involved.

[Wintermute]

I'm a professional wrestler.














I lied. I'm not.

[Viktor Von Russia]

Did somebody mention talent? If I had a 20" bicep I could be a friggin wrestler, all I have to do is think up a bizarre personality and talk a lotta smack. The rest is pretending to be hurt. Which is easy. I'm sorry but there's no talent involved.

Actually, there's a little bit more than that to it. For one thing, you have to learn how to take the hits without breaking your spine, face, and other parts of your body that you want to function properly. Also, you'd have to know how to do the moves without killing the other guy. It's not always about how big you are, either. No offense to Big Show (a 7' tall, 300+ pound monster), but he can't do jack sh*t. The lightweights, however, do flips off the ropes and other crazy life-shortening maneuvers.

[Krylo]

Actually, there's a little bit more than that to it. For one thing, you have to learn how to take the hits without breaking your spine, face, and other parts of your body that you want to function properly. Also, you'd have to know how to do the moves without killing the other guy. It's not always about how big you are, either. No offense to Big Show (a 7' tall, 300+ pound monster), but he can't do jack sh*t. The lightweights, however, do flips off the ropes and other crazy life-shortening maneuvers.

...no.

It's all fake. You don't need to learn shit. The stuff they hit them with is sawed through so it snaps easily before doing any damage to them. Probably stings a bit but that's it. And when they hit each other they don't use full force and they keep their fist somewhat open so that it softens the blow considerably. The noise you hear is them stomping on the mat... that's why they do it everytime they hit someone... it doesn't make it hit them any harder, it just makes the noise for a fake punch. All you need to know is how to pull your punches and talk smack. That's it.

And yah... I watched pro-wrestling once. It was kinda funny... but that was it.

And you really can't compare it to TV shows because they don't pretend to be real. And they aren't as horrendously lame.

[Raerlynn]

...and..umm...no.

Is it fake? Yes
Are the "weapons" predamaged to prevent serious harm? Yes
Do the flips and and high risk manuevers take no talent? HELL YES they require talent. You're telling me you can jump, sit on a man's shoulders, and flip him headfirst into the ground without hittiing your face or smashing your kneecaps? I think not. There is a certain level of talent required, as you have to make any match "Entertaining" by using a variety of moves.

By the way, in case you were wondering, the injuries they sustain are NOT fake. Several wrestlers have suffered broken necks from falls they took badly, or suffered torn quadracepts, or even some have necks that are so screwed up they require special operations to continue to function.

Do I see MLB superstars pulling backflips over catchers? No.
NFL players who can take 10-20 ft. falls without breaking or straining anything? Nope.

Hell, most of these "fake" athletes suffer more greivous injuries and continue to perform for less money than those babies in the NFL or MLB who refuse to play with minor injuries such as a sprained finger.

So...still think no talent required? Then haul your butt to the nearest ring and tell the first WWE wrestler you see that they have no talent.

[TheZeroMan]

Knocking wrestling for being fake is kinda lame at this point. If you say its fake or they pretending to be a real sport you're coming from a position of obvious ignorance. Because I am a fan(only god knows why) I know that pro wrestling specifically the WWF/WWE hasn't pretended to be real for the last two decades.

Thus the lame we're not pro wrasslin we're sports entertainment push.

Knock it for being boring. KNock it for having repetitive storylines. Knock the WWE for having the same 5 guys as there maineventers as they have had since 1997. Knock it for being way too much a male soap opera. Knock for focusing on such lame wrestler as HHH. Knock it for being cultural slumming. Or hate it for bing really sleazy. But not for being fake. Please.

So in that respect it is totally fair to compare it other shows. At least wrestling doesn't pretend to be real like you know boxing. It like very violent ballet.

Actually once I learned to the level of the fakeness I was more compelled.

For example when wrestlers "bleed" because they get busted wide open. Its because they cut themselves with a razor blade hidden in there wrist tape or on their person.

Gimmicked weapons?

Tables and such are made to break easier these days. BUt that more recent pussy development like the ban on pile drivers and other dangerous moves by the WWE.

But I remember the days of Sabu jumping on a table 2-3 times to get them to break. Or droz breaking his neck mid match. Of Mic Foley getting his ear torn off in a match. When Terry Funk piledrives Flair on the table and it doesn't break. That table today would shatter. Or mankind walking away from the ring with a noticable crack in his skull from repeated chair shots. Or a tooth hanging out of nose....yea nose.

But like The Steel chairs aren't gimmicked or weren't before recently. They just know how to take them.

And the punching and kicking is lame. I knoww they stomp the mat and so does everyone who say that Wrestlin exposed thing on fox 3 years ago. The more a wrestler punches the worse they are usually.

And how ever said the bicep thing obviously subscribes to the Vince McMahon school of wrestling talent. Historically very few big guys or guys with big muscles have ever proven to be "talented wresters".

God. Look at Mark Henry he was record setting power lifter but is a godawful wrestler. dan Severn was/is well know UFC fighter and greco roman wrestler but was about as entertaining as a slug in matches.

And By Talented I mean able to to keep my awake while watching them. 95% of bigb tall dude or guy with big biceps are horrible at wrestling. Talented Big guys... I can only think of Andre the Giant, Vader, Yokozuna, and the Undertaker off hand.

I've watched wrestling on and off since the mid 80s. I try to watch the various WWE shows now but most are shit.

I became a more hardcore fan in the mid 90s thanks to ECW, which was very cool wrestling company.

And Me and the few friends that still like wrestling get together and order that NWA -TNA ppv but that becoming a fucking WWEish Bore fest as well(damn you Jeff Jarrett.).

I'm Wrestling fan its a guilty pleasure, though its been non pleasureable for the last year.

I can only hope and pray the Royal Rumble will be fun. It usually is.

I just started this thread to see if it was ever going to be worth posting future threads.

Anyway now I've gone into my wrestling mark mode...

[The Devil Himself]

There are storylines in wrestling?

[Bezo]

I used to like wrestling, nay, I used to love wrestling, but now it's pathetic and I can't even bring myself to watch telecasts (let alone payperviews).

[Wintermute]

yeah, there are storylines, but about how much they hate each other.

[TheZeroMan]

I guess it would be hard to argue against that in theory But isn't that the point of most protagonist/antagonist relation ships?

Angles(or storylines) can be random. Such as Al Snow trying to get Steve Blackman to join a tag team called head cheese.

Or when Kurt Angle was just trying to be Steve Austin's best friend and steve was getting annoyed. I remember the Guitar Sketch

Steve austin with acoustic guitar in hand: "Kurt do you know how to play the ax?"

Kurt Angle: " The Ax?"

Steve: "THE GUITAR! Can you wail on the ax?"

Kurt Angle: "I used to be on the highschool Glee club buddy you better believe I can wail on the ax."

What about the story line (angle for us wrestling nerds) where Cactus Jack ceases being hardcore just to piss off the fans? And then bribes the owner of ECW to give him the MOst hardcore wrestler of the year award?

Or when Raven started dating The Sandman's Wife(peaches) just to brain wash his kid to use against the sandman in matches?(or anything with raven in general)

Or when the Big Boss man stole the Big show's dead father before his casket was buried.

On a side note I still under the impression if the Boss Man character had a house he would have the Big show's dad in in his closet or something.

Or when al snow went insane from losing all the time and started talking to "head".

Wrestling angles vary a much as any other usually. BUt the point of the angle is that it leads to a match or causes a match or fight or feud or help people to understand the character better.

Something like that...

[Lost in Time]

That's why I no longer watch westleing anymore. It's all scripts and drama. I used to watch it for the fake head bashing. Now it's "You blinded my girlfriend, so now I will beat you to an inch of death, and laugh as they send you off to the hospital." It's worse then a superhero game. And gayer than Richard Simmons.

[Krylo]

I should point out I was talking about taking hits, because that's what Viktor was talking about. Yes, the flips take talent, although it's more flexibility and being in good shape than anything that would take a lot of practice... but meh. And I wasn't 'bashing' it for being fake, it just seemed that Viktor somehow didn't realize that they didn't hit each other hard, so I was pointing it out to him.

Anyway... like I said before, it's kind of funny in it's lameness... the same way DBZ is kind of funny. And now I'm going to go ahead and withdraw from this conversation... I only got into it in the first place cause Vik didn't seem to know what he was talking about.

[Viktor Von Russia]

Just so you know, Krylo, I was using the term "hits" a little loosely. I intended the word to also include the slams, throws, flips, and whatnot. Also, as Zeroman pointed out earlier, wrestlers make each other bleed via hidden razors, although I've heard that more recently, they've switched to hitting each other at a downward angle right above the eyebrow which in theory can make a person bleed (before Mick Foley mastered doing that, he punched the hell out of another guy without making him bleed which prompted a "Please, stop hitting my face"). As for the whole "Anyone buff enough can do all of that" attitude that many people seem to have, that's what spawned backyard wrestling. And the dozens of deaths the resulted from it. But enough of my rambling. All I'm saying is that the people who do this for a living should get some amount of respect even from people who aren't fans.

[Dynamite Kid]

Busting an eyebrow is an old school trick for drawing blood. If a wrestler hears about it from Harley Race (as Mick did), it's old school - and also great. The good wrestlers are the ones who can make a shot look good. Guys like Stan "The Lariat" Hansen, Dynamite Kid, Vader, Randy Savage and a cult favourite of mine, Fit Finlay. They all worked snug and it looked good. Snug of course is a lot different than stiff, which is how guys like
Scott Steiner and Bill Goldberg work. Anyone else remember about 5 years ago when Regal worked Goldberg on the mat to make him look like a fool? Man, that was great...

[Bezo]

I loved it when Regal tied up Goldberg. Pity WCW's management didn't see it the same way.

Oh well, it was a sinking ship even then...kinda like the WW(E) is now.

[TheZeroMan]

Speaking of time people have assaulted Goldberg in real life while wrestling him..

Remeber when Scott "Flash" Norton Went nuts on goldberg and knocked him out for a few moments by throwing a him a little too hard into the steel steps.

That was the most intense match I'd seen goldberg in. Outside his forced annoying intenseness.

Well when he was losing to Scott Steiner those matches were decent in pure brutality kinda way.

[Bezo]

Scotty Norton can't seem to get any respect outside of Japan, which is sad. Maybe guys like Benoit and Jericho should go back to Japan as well.

Goldberg sucks.

[Futae No Kiwami]

Scotty Norton can't seem to get any respect outside of Japan, which is sad. Maybe guys like Benoit and Jericho should go back to Japan as well.

Goldberg sucks.

I fully agree, They should take mysterio and ultimo dragon back with them. The talent discussion is ridiculous, becuase there is ALWAYS someone who wants to dispute the fakeness of it, and then decides to bring in talent. Heres wrestling talent, talent is being able to work a stiff match for over an hour, trading a series of stiff(read: Actaully connecting) attacks to each other, a few big moves into some well knowledgeble mat work, before going back into the series of trading off maneuvers..only to have your opponent break his arm mid match becuase he hit you so hard with a backhand that his forearm broke, continue to wrestle for 30 more minutes, hit one of the worlds most famous/sickest powerbomb spots, get dropped on your head with a Verticle DDT/Severe Brainbuster loose...but still manage to goto the back.

I watch japanese pro wrestler or Puroresu. It kills anything america has to offer. I havent really watched my tapes in awhile, but AJPW 6/11 changed my opinions of how "FAKE" a match is. Watching Toshiaki Kawada and Mitsuhara Misawa wrestle a hour long match, comeplete with real punches(I know in america punches are pulled, in AJPW...lets just say..not so much) and some moves that made me cringe. Hangmans Piledriver/neckbreaker(realname: Ganso Bomb) or whatever AKI called it in WWF: No Mercy...I watched that move in real life, pretty cool spot actually. Counter the powerbomb, to get that countered by landing on your head.

Best of Hayabusa will make a puro fan out of anyone..that and Ultimo Dragon's Toryumon tapes.

-Smark 4 life ;p

[TheZeroMan]

Hey Futae is Hayabusa able to walk and/or wrestle yet.

I heard he botched a move (asai Moonsault I am unsure) and messed up his neck pretty good, so much so he couldn't walk or had to retire.

And Vince McMahon should be taken into an alleyway and exectued for what has happened to the Ultimo Dragon in the WWE (Ultimo is my favorite wrestler.... next to Bret Hart, and maybe the Undertaker).

I agree that Puroresu is inventive and intense and I enjoy it throughly whenever I manage to get my hands on some tapes.

Though Live wise ECW was great. I saw two house shows at the Grand Center here in Grand Rapids and was blown away. I've scene 3 raws, a smackdown, and a nitro and the ECW house show topped them all combined easily.

And I got punched by Bubba Ray Dudleys inadvertantly and he appollogized. New Jack Bleed on my friend, Good times.

Many ECW was perhaps the Utopia of Wrestling at least in america. they were cutting edge, had wonderful wrestling (Jerry Lynn vs. RVD for the TV title), didn't insult your intelligence, it was hardcore and extreme(or whatever other cliches you want to ad) before that sort of thing got played out, it was satircal (bWo, Al Snow) and brought in Luchadores(Juventud, Pciossis, Rey Misterio JR, Konnan) and Japanese Wrestlers (bWo Japan. Taka/ Kai En Tai and others).

They had something to offer everyone but then dided in the struggle to become mainstream....

DAMN YOU ECW DAMN YOU!

I'm going to go watch my best of Raven and Taz in ECW tapes and cry myself to sleep.

[Futae No Kiwami]

Im not sure on haya's status. He was one of the better japanese wrestlers and I would love to see him back..