Mafia: Basic

[DarthMauler64]

hey hey hey, I was voting for Mesden at the time. And not voting for Catlover honestly can't be seen as incriminating coming from the person who said

I'm starting to have second thoughts about lynching CatLover

And not meaning to defend anyone else but the first 3 on that list voted for me (due to mesden's reasoning) and Secret Skull voted for Crazy Ben (for the no lynch vote). Just an FYI on where those votes stood.

Eh, I guess your right. I'm just saying I wouldn't be suprised if there was at least mafiate in that list.

EDIT: Where did that quote in the quote go? Oh well I'll just type it

[P-Sleazy]

when you quote someone with a quote in their post, it takes everything BUT the quote. Annoying ain't it?

[DarthMauler64]

when you quote someone with a quote in their post, it takes everything BUT the quote. Annoying ain't it?

Indeed it is.

[Mondt]

So we're assuming that SithDarth is the SK from the knife a few feet from him?

Also: Damn good night for townies. Mafiate dead, SK dead, townie protected.

Edit: Oh. That makes sense.

I motion that Newb specify in these posts. Being in this mafia and that mafia and this one again, changing stuff up kind of confused me.

[Silly Kitty]

No, we are assuming Darth is the SK because of the post on the first page.

[Mesden]

So...I was targetted by mafia, doctor AND reporter...

I feel so special. Like, TWG special. Anyhow, I'm a known townie and without a cult(Unless one happens to be a personality thing) I HOPE you can trust me.

To explain why I DIDN'T vote for Catlover, I understood the reason behind voting him and casted it off sheerly because of his actions in my game.(Not the brightest and he was very close, as a matter of fact, should've been, kicked) This was a mistake and I'm not going to let past performances judge my actions, aside frmm possible taking situations from past games and such.

Now, the B_Real situation has been driven into the ground and that leaves my suspicion at CmP. We're past the FOSing level people, it doesn't carry any weight anymore.

VOTE: CmP

Also, a bit of an out there statement, anyone think there's a possibility of a personality role being a CopyCat Serial Killer? One that comes when the SK dies?

[P-Sleazy]

and we can probably assume that either the vigilante role has not been assigned or the vigilante tried to hit mesden/Sithdarth, but the person was already attacked, or they killed the SK and newb didn't bother to do the SK role or something.

Newb, please tell us, was the Vigilante role reassigned or is it non-existent now?

[The Wandering God]

I must say, I was worried when people kept dropping out, but last night went spectaculary.

Also, apologies to Mesden.

So, 17 players remain (I think), with 4 mafiates and no other (known) threats.

I was considering crunching some numbers to see how many errors we can make, but then I thought about the Vig. I do wonder if that role got reassigned or if they simply chose to not use it.

We can't accept that everyone who voted for Catlover are all townies. A very common mafia tactic is to vote for you own members to seem innocent to the town. I say this, knowing I voted.

But, I will point out that my vote was the sixth one and it broke the tie that existed between B_real and Catlover. Twiddy voted after, when it was pretty much a given that Catlover would probably get lynched.

And before I forget, FoS: Sk3l3ton for being so resistant to voting for Catlover. Just an FoS. Because you resisted once (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401580&postcount=193), twice (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401633&postcount=200),
thrice (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401965&postcount=214),frice (shutup, it's a word) (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401979&postcount=220).

Then, he made a point defending Mes. And I have seen what happens when I look to far into something. However, it's just an FoS.

I'm heavily considering voting for CmP, as he was the only other really suspicious candidate in my opinion, and I can trust Mes now, but I'll give him the chance to respond.

The Wandering God

[Bailey]

The notepad was dropped into a nearby mailbox, and the silver gun was brought to the post office lost and found.

Make of this what you will.

[Mesden]

No more vig I assume. But, the Reporter I believe is still around unless it randomly landed on me ALONG with two others TRYING to hit me.

I will say that Twid surmised correctly in that it IS a mason role, for all intents and purposes.

BUT! I will not reveal the other two, yes, two, as it's better this way. I will only reveal them in the happenings of them possibly being lynched.

[CallmePrismatic]

Again, can somebody summarize what I should be defending myself against? Mesden says that I've been shadowing her (or somesuch) and using her as a cover to do my nefarious deeds, even though b_real still seems suspicous to me.

TWG still believes I voted for Mesden in all seriousness, even though, IN THE FIRST FREAKING POST, I stated it's joke quality and how everyone should treat it as a joke, and then when that apparently wasn't enough I linked to where I got the joke idea from and, according to TWG, I still made the vote for my nefarious goals because I'm 'too good for that'.

So, if I have to do something, I'll try and attack the NPF Mafia Players Club's sense of humor, or the seeming lack of it. Next time I'll borrow a lesson from Dave Barry and add humor subtitles for the comedy impaired.

As I see it, the only thing I'm being demonized about is the original fake Mesden vote and the subsequent snowfuck of mininterpreted intentions, so if it's the town's will to lynch me for a joke gone awry go ahead.

[The Wandering God]

Again, can somebody summarize what I should be defending myself against? Mesden says that I've been shadowing her (or somesuch) and using her as a cover to do my nefarious deeds, even though b_real still seems suspicous to me.

TWG still believes I voted for Mesden in all seriousness, even though, IN THE FIRST FREAKING POST, I stated it's joke quality and how everyone should treat it as a joke, and then when that apparently wasn't enough I linked to where I got the joke idea from and, according to TWG, I still made the vote for my nefarious goals because I'm 'too good for that'.

So, if I have to do something, I'll try and attack the NPF Mafia Players Club's sense of humor, or the seeming lack of it. Next time I'll borrow a lesson from Dave Barry and add humor subtitles for the comedy impaired.

As I see it, the only thing I'm being demonized about is the original fake Mesden vote and the subsequent snowfuck of mininterpreted intentions, so if it's the town's will to lynch me for a joke gone awry go ahead.
Ya know, the example you cited, you specifically said, "People even started to vote for them when he wasn't in the game...". Maybe that's where you should have started the joke. (Then again, I think she's been in practically every one.)

You saw how in the very first game, a little RP completely snowballed. While this game has been around for a little while now, it's still relatively new even now.

You could just as easily have FoS'd her with the same intention. But you didn't. You voted.

But, attention was quickly diverted to B_real, and the only ones who were actually paying attention to you were me and Mesden. I wouldn't say you were that much of a focus to the town in general.

Honestly, I'm going to see what Mesden has to say and basically go along with whatever she says. Yes, I know she's not infallible, and that she could get a townie lynched, but I can trust that she isn't a threat.

I'll see how she reacts and respond accordingly.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

CmP, this is the same deal with Catlover. A possible premade veil you made.

I'll break this down from my point of view.

Me: "Alright, I need to get the crap out of the way and make it hit the fan. *First player post*."

CmP: "Let's go through with the joke."

CmP: "Now let's take away the joke vote and get on her side just a bit."

TWG: "I've got a nagging suspicion on both of you. *States a few plausible reasons and decides he WILL vote for one of us*"

Me and CmP: *Defense*

Me: *Revealed townie!*

CmP: "*VEIL!*"

The veil is this:

As I see it, the only thing I'm being demonized about is the original fake Mesden vote and the subsequent snowfuck of mininterpreted intentions, so if it's the town's will to lynch me for a joke gone awry go ahead.


You're sticking to this a bit too much. I don't like how you went through with the joke, RAMPANTLY stated it's joke quality when it was OBVIOUS the can of worms it opened(ALONG with my own opened can just from the first post) and THEN after unvoting the joke you seem to be backing me on most things.

Namely the Anti B_Real front that I, without a doubt, started.

Honestly, were you foolhardy enough to think it would pass by as JUST a joke? And then you can't deny taking my side in a low profile manner. I'll go dig the posts back up if you REALLY want me to, but the B_Real situation in general states you were on my side at ONE point.

So, what do you make of this, CmP?


Edit: Wow, ninja'd by someone who wanted my take on the situation...Nice is all I have to say.

[Ogianres]

I'm going to FOS: CmP.

I believe that I can for sure trust Mesden now. Before, I didn't believe I could trust her because she could be both experienced and scum, but now I know she's experienced and townie. However, the fact that he keeps defending himself regarding the joke post is ridiculous. It was a joke post, and I don't think anyone should be suspicious about a joke post. Instead, I think that suspicion should be cast upon those who seemed to agree/take the joke post too seriously.

[P-Sleazy]

Of all the people who voted for catlover, the only one who could be a mafiate (IMO mind you) because of the "hey, I voted for a mafiate! I can't possibly be a mafiate" ploy(which hasn't even been used in this game...yet), would be Ogianres since he was the last to vote for Catlover and that was still before Mesden took her vote off me. And TWWDI who had a vote before Ogianres, if he AND Ogianres were mafiates, they could have easily swung the votes in my direction saving a fellow Mafiate with the votes tallying 7 for me and 6 for Catlover, again, BEFORE Mesden unvoted me. So I'll also point a FOS: Ogianres.

[Ogianres]

The "I voted for a mafiate and thus can't be a mafiate" defense is not one that I would use. First off, it is largely ineffective. Second, it just gets in the way of real logic. And being last to vote for someone doesn't mean a thing. And I could have voted for and swung it towards you, along with another person? Can I assume you are only saying me and TWWDI could do it just because we were the last to vote? If so, that is not a good reason. FOS: B_Real

[CallmePrismatic]

Honestly, were you foolhardy enough to think it would pass by as JUST a joke?
Great, now I'm being demonized for NOT HAVING PRECOGNITION. But to answer your question, yes, I guess I was 'foolhardy', partly because I assumed the mafia crowd would take a joke at face value if somebody told them it was a joke and explained the joke. You want to know why I went through with the joke? Because as I said, it worked on another forum, and I 'foolhardly' thought it would work well here.

Now, onto the 'defending you'...wait a second, I'm getting deja vu...
Again, I never wanted to look like I was defending Mes. In fact, it should be looked at as more self-preserving on my part, because I wasn't aware of the potential backlash that resulted from the joke; If I hadn't disuaded people from voting Mes then it might have snowballed too far and the vote trail would have lead back to me, even though I never meant for it to go that far. So, bottom line, Self-preservation.
So yeah, no defending going on.

So that leaves 'siding with you' and B_real to which I say...so what? Wow, we both thought that B_real was acting scummy, ZOMG I MUST BE SHADOWING U!!!11!! Do you want ME to dig up all of B_real's scummy points to show why I voted for him? Just because you were wary of him doesn't mean I was trying to appear like your little TW...I mean lackey. I gave him opportunities to prove his innocence, he shat them away with his paranoid ramblings about how 'We'd all be sorry'. If it's possible, two people can agree on something without one of them mimicing the other.

Trust me. I've been doing this for awhile.

[Silly Kitty]

I don't really agree with voting for him over a joke. I did and still do think he is scummy but I don't want to vote over him just because of a joke. People are voting for hm because of a joke and they think he is copying Mes? Is that it. Am I missing more?

[The Wandering God]

Great, now I'm being demonized for NOT HAVING PRECOGNITION. But to answer your question, yes, I guess I was 'foolhardy', partly because I assumed the mafia crowd would take a joke at face value if somebody told them it was a joke and explained the joke. You want to know why I went through with the joke? Because as I said, it worked on another forum, and I 'foolhardly' thought it would work well here.

Now, onto the 'defending you'...wait a second, I'm getting deja vu...

So yeah, no defending going on.

So that leaves 'siding with you' and B_real to which I say...so what? Wow, we both thought that B_real was acting scummy, ZOMG I MUST BE SHADOWING U!!!11!! Do you want ME to dig up all of B_real's scummy points to show why I voted for him? Just because you were wary of him doesn't mean I was trying to appear like your little TW...I mean lackey. I gave him opportunities to prove his innocence, he shat them away with his paranoid ramblings about how 'We'd all be sorry'. If it's possible, two people can agree on something without one of them mimicing the other.

Trust me. I've been doing this for awhile.
Vote: CallmePrismatic

In addition, you also managed to completely ignore my earlier post.

The Wandering God

[CallmePrismatic]

Vote: CallmePrismatic

In addition, you also managed to completely ignore my earlier post.

The Wandering God
What earlier post?

[Mesden]

EDIT: CmP, the one DIRECTLY before mine, you missed a point in it.

I don't really agree with voting for him over a joke. I did and still do think he is scummy but I don't want to vote over him just because of a joke. People are voting for hm because of a joke and they think he is copying Mes? Is that it. Am I missing more?

God, it's not like I even reinstated my vote yet. Sheesh.

CmP, come on man, you missed the real context. Maybe I worded it too similarly, but it was just the sequence of events that makes everything look bad in your favor.

"*Joke* DON'T PAY THE JOKE HEED, MESDEN SHOULD NOT BE VOTED FOR THIS!"

For whoever's sake that was almost pathetic in retrospect. I mean, people on this forum are smart and try to turn things gainst each other very well. I should know through first hand exerience.

You started with a joke, turned it into "MESDEN SHOULDN'T BE VOTED YET!" when for fuck's sake attention was ALREADY on me, through my own actions, mind you.

You RAN the first game. Hell you made a comment on how something as simple as a little JOKING arpy action can make even the biggest of snowballs. And you expect someone like YOU on THIS FORUM making ANY kind of conjecture to someone wouldn't bring a lot of attention.

I mean, come ON. This is a NUBILE mafia cycle we've got going on here. The whole "partly because I assumed the mafia crowd would take a joke at face value if somebody told them it was a joke and explained the joke." is gonna fly here?

But, damn it if I get deja vu here, but are you doing the same thing, TWG?

Personally, I'm gonna vote B_Real or CmP. This is just me. Also, I feel like shit right now. Wait until tomorrow for me to get back to my unorthodox self. This is why I'm not gonna vote yet.

Plus, I'll go back over the thread sometime or another.

[The Wandering God]

What earlier post?
Post number 262. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403205&postcount=262)


God, it's not like I even reinstated my vote yet. Sheesh.

CmP, come on man, you missed the real context. Maybe I worded it too similarly, but it was just the sequence of events that makes everything look bad in your favor.

"*Joke* DON'T PAY THE JOKE HEED, MESDEN SHOULD NOT BE VOTED FOR THIS!"

For whoever's sake that was almost pathetic in retrospect. I mean, people on this forum are smart and try to turn things gainst each other very well. I should know through first hand exerience.

You started with a joke, turned it into "MESDEN SHOULDN'T BE VOTED YET!" when for fuck's sake attention was ALREADY on me, through my own actions, mind you.

You RAN the first game. Hell you made a comment on how something as simple as a little JOKING arpy action can make even the biggest of snowballs. And you expect someone like YOU on THIS FORUM making ANY kind of conjecture to someone wouldn't bring a lot of attention.

I mean, come ON. This is a NUBILE mafia cycle we've got going on here. The whole "partly because I assumed the mafia crowd would take a joke at face value if somebody told them it was a joke and explained the joke." is gonna fly here?

But, damn it if I get deja vu here, but are you doing the same thing, TWG?

Personally, I'm gonna vote B_Real or CmP. This is just me. Also, I feel like shit right now. Wait until tomorrow for me to get back to my unorthodox self. This is why I'm not gonna vote yet.

Plus, I'll go back over the thread sometime or another.
Yeah, when you do return, can you answer a few things about that post?
1. "Gods, it's not like I reinstated my vote." Uh, you never unvoted CmP, if that's what you meant. Or maybe you did, and I missed it, but I swear I looked.

2. "But, damn it if I get deja vu here, but are you doing the same thing, TWG?" I admit I am confused as to what you are referring to here.

3. "Personally, I'm gonna vote B_Real or CmP." Um, again, you already voted for CmP, and again, unless I missed something, you never unvoted either.

Also, Silly Kitty, what ARE your criteria for voting? Why were you willing to vote Catlover, but not Cmp?

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

Post number 262. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403205&postcount=262)


Yeah, when you do return, can you answer a few things about that post?
1. "Gods, it's not like I reinstated my vote." Uh, you never unvoted CmP, if that's what you meant. Or maybe you did, and I missed it, but I swear I looked.

2. "But, damn it if I get deja vu here, but are you doing the same thing, TWG?" I admit I am confused as to what you are referring to here.

3. "Personally, I'm gonna vote B_Real or CmP." Um, again, you already voted for CmP, and again, unless I missed something, you never unvoted either.

The Wandering God

God I'm so out of it I couldn't even remember I voted for CmP. Sorry about the frustration, TWG.

On the Deja vu, it just feels a bit shadowy like CmP made me feel is all. Not profeessing scummitude or whatever, just a feeling.

[CallmePrismatic]

Again, if I am to be lynched due to the mafia crowd's unhumor, let it be so. Forgive them Father, they know not what they do. I wish I could take back the joke to avoid all the hassle it's caused me, but I will never apologize for not having the precognition to see the outcome. YES, I ASSUMED THAT THE JOKE WOULD BE INTERPRETED AS A JOKE AND WOULD GO NO FURTHER. I see now, through 20/20 hindsight, that the mafia community is still too deadset on their endgoals.

I never said "Mesden shouldn't be voted for", I said "Don't vote for Mesden because of my joke". If people found good evidence against you they should vote then, not because I voted as a joke and they look at me as the end-all-be-all mafia player. I'm not nearly that vain.

Also, I saw TWG's post but he only brought up things that Mesden said before (the joke and how I should have realized in advance the reprecussions using my premonitions, B_real, and 'shadowing' you), so what exact point did I miss?

Also, Silly Kitty, back off, my fight.

[Silly Kitty]

I don't think CMP guilty at the moment. I thought Catlover was guilty from the beginning maybe not guilty of being mafia but guilty. The Catlover vote was just all about deadline.

I am leaving towards CMP and if nothing else is brought up by tomorrow I probably will vote for him. It wouldn't be because of the voting thing. I would be basing my actions off of another game and that is why I am waiting.

[Mesden]

I never said "Mesden shouldn't be voted for", I said "Don't vote for Mesden because of my joke". If people found good evidence against you they should vote then, not because I voted as a joke and they look at me as the end-all-be-all mafia player. I'm not nearly that vain.




You know what irritates me? You take my quote and leave of the ONE word that makes the entire damn thing make sense.

"MESDEN SHOULDN'T BE VOTED FOR, YET!" I believe I said., or the other "MESDEN SHOULD NOT BE VOTED FOR THIS!"

Which, HEY!, makes it EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID. Get it right or don't make me look bad by changing it.

[P-Sleazy]

The "I voted for a mafiate and thus can't be a mafiate" defense is not one that I would use. First off, it is largely ineffective. Second, it just gets in the way of real logic. And being last to vote for someone doesn't mean a thing. And I could have voted for and swung it towards you, along with another person? Can I assume you are only saying me and TWWDI could do it just because we were the last to vote? If so, that is not a good reason. FOS: B_Real

I was just saying that as a possibility. Which is also why I said it hasnt happened yet (the "I voted for...." ploy). I was just saying, that that was a possibility with you and TWWDI had you both been mafiates. So I'm just saying I'm fairly certain TWWDI isn't mafiate. I have no idea about you, probably Townie as well. But again, we have nothing to go on here other than what we post. The PO sure as hell didn't reveal himself and from the looks of things, the Vig is gone. I am much more concerned with another person we have here, who hasn't yet posted today, I had him/her in my original post that had my FOS at you, but I want to see what he/she does first.

As for all this CmP business. He seems a bit aggressive and very harsh. Silly Kitty trying to help him (without actuall defending him mind you) and him being that forceful at her. I mean sure, he could be a townie who thinks that other people defending him is bad for him (especially if thier mafiate), but seriously, we've had that done so many times that I don't care WHO people defend, so long as their reasoning makes sense. When it comes down to it, if people want to defend me without me asking them, go right on ahead. More help for me and less I have to do in terms of defending myself. I'm not going to be lynched because of thier actions. I'm going to be lynched because of my actions. And so

VOTE: CmP

Edit: grammar made last sentences look REALLY bad.

[CallmePrismatic]

As for all this CmP business. He seems a bit aggressive and very harsh. Silly Kitty trying to help him (without actuall defending him mind you) and him being that forceful at her. I mean sure, he could be a townie who thinks that other people defending him is bad for him (especially if thier mafiate), but seriously, we've had that done so many times that I don't care WHO people defend, so long as their reasoning makes sense. When it comes down to it, if people want to defend me without me asking them, go right on ahead. More help for me and less I have to do in terms of defending myself. I'm not going to be lynched because of thier actions. I'm going to be lynched because of my actions. And so

VOTE: CmP

Edit: grammar made last sentences look REALLY bad.
Why did I snap at Silly Kitty? Well, (1) I'm a guy so the whole "Fuck you, I'll deal with my troubles myself"-instict kicked in, but also because (2) I have to assume that everyone who isn't dead or a revealed townie is a threat to me.

You say that only you can get yourself lynched by your own actions but that is wrong. A mafiate defending you basically gives you a stigma as someone the mafia wanted to protect...a fellow mafiate.

Telling someone not to defend you is no means for a vote.

Of course, I've just realized that arguing with people not to blindly follow Mesden is a lost cause. She's a confirmed townie so, like TWG, you'll automatically assume that she can't be wrong, even though she's isn't the revealed PO. All that Mesden has on her side right now is her own innocence, not a foolproof method of figuring out the innocence or guilt of others.

I am a little curious though Mesden, when did or when were you going to Unvote me. It's obvious that you thought you took away the vote, so what did (/would have done) it for you?

[Mesden]

I am a little curious though Mesden, when did or when were you going to Unvote me. It's obvious that you thought you took away the vote, so what did (/would have done) it for you?

I'm sorry. I've been having a few troubles with memory pending a recent accident and at that moment I was just in a bad state.

I think, after looking over it, I (Not in this order) thought I hadn't voted for you, thought I voted for you and took it away and thought I had voted for you normally.

God you don't know how much I want to get rid of that post. But, I'll give you everything I really think tomorrow. Maybe I'll be a bit better then.

EDIT: Also, did you just ignore how you took only part of my quote, used it as a defense and I called you on it? It's a simple matter, really.

[CallmePrismatic]

Misinterpretation on my part, although now that I look closer on the post I fail to see what it relates to exactly.

"*Joke* DON'T PAY THE JOKE HEED, MESDEN SHOULD NOT BE VOTED FOR THIS!"

For whoever's sake that was almost pathetic in retrospect. I mean, people on this forum are smart and try to turn things gainst each other very well. I should know through first hand exerience.
Ok, so you're saying I give mafia players...too little credit in regards to deducing? Or are you saying that I intentionally voted for you, not as a joke, but as a way to get people to vote for you out of the game as quickly as possible, banking on how people would naturally vote you out after I 'started it'.
You started with a joke, turned it into "MESDEN SHOULDN'T BE VOTED YET!" when for fuck's sake attention was ALREADY on me, through my own actions, mind you. Ok, maybe I messed up a little, but throughout the first part of the game I wanted it to be read as "Don't vote Mesden because of ME". Maybe it's semantics but I didn't want people to rush to the polls and lynch you over a joke and then leave me with egg all over my face.

What I still don't get concerning all of this joke debacle is what I would have gained from it if, as TWG and Mes believe, I didn't mean it as a joke.

[Mesden]

What I still don't get concerning all of this joke debacle is what I would have gained from it if, as TWG and Mes believe, I didn't mean it as a joke.

This is a specific what if, by the way. A bit more cleverly worded.

CmP, anything thought up can make a veil to hide behind. Had I not came against you, chances are we'd still be in agreement with killing B_Real.

Had I not been revealed a townie, you might have be with TWG against me instead.

What ifs don't work in a game as hectic as this. Don't try to use it as a defense.

(This is just speculation. I'll be a lot more sensical if I'm not already)

[CallmePrismatic]

No, it's not a what if question, I just realized I've been screaming my fingers out to convince you guys that I made a joke and I don't know why you think it matters.

Why do you two, and anyone else who believes but is letting TWG and Mes question me, think I didn't mean it as a joke? How would it have assisted me as a veil?

[Mesden]

God this game strays from the original point.

And this question just looks inane to me.

"How would it have assisted me as a veil?"

One, bring attention to me, using your well known heavy influence.
Two, when/if I was voted and revealed townie, you could state that it was all a joke and you didn't THINK it'd carry through.

WOW! VEIL!

[The Wandering God]

Commencing ultra-post.

God I'm so out of it I couldn't even remember I voted for CmP. Sorry about the frustration, TWG.

On the Deja vu, it just feels a bit shadowy like CmP made me feel is all. Not profeessing scummitude or whatever, just a feeling.
Well, I would think my actions have had a fairly easy to follow trail.

First, I was suspcious of you and CmP. I made some inquiries, while at the same time, the Catlover thing was developing. However, in this post (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=402132&postcount=230), after you had answered a post of mine and BEFORE you are revealed a townie, I state that I was now more suspicous of CmP. I meant to imply that it meant I was less suspicous of you with the switching of roles bit, but I'll let you decide on that.

And of course, you being revealed as a townie changed everything.

However, you were suspicious of Cmp, BEFORE your role was revealed, because you think he was defending you. I never actually defended you.

And I meant to imply that I truly believe in the tactic of following known townies. I gave my reason why (you're not infallible, but you ARE someone we can trust), and again, it's up to you to decide on that.


Also, I saw TWG's post but he only brought up things that Mesden said before (the joke and how I should have realized in advance the reprecussions using my premonitions, B_real, and 'shadowing' you), so what exact point did I miss?
The point of, "Why didn't you just FoS, her?"

And it wasn't that you knew what reprecussions your actions would have, but you should have known there would be SOME.

CmP, as much as you say it's a joke, I'm sorry, but all we have to go on that is your word. And you of all people know we should take that with a grain of salt in-game.

Again, I don't think it was a plot to get Mesden lynched. I think it was a plot to get a townie lynched. You could say your vote was a joke, but anyone else was overreacting.

And I must say, it really is beginning to bug the holy hell out of me that you keep saying the entire mafia community is lacking in humor. Perhaps, or perhaps not. But how long were mafia games going on in that other forum before people started to be a bit more relaxed with it?

The Wandering God

[CallmePrismatic]

Yah know, I think if you read my posts from yesterday you can kinda get a general feeling of stress and such but now...

I finally realized that I'm being voted on because you don't believe I was joking. And you're right TWG, you only have my word and the links and explanations I gave. I can't ever really convince you otherwise on this point because you and Mesden are basically closing your ears and screaming "lalalalacanthearyoulalalala" and I can't break through that.

But then a day passed, and the only people who have posted are you two, which leads me to believe that the only reason I'm not swinging in the air right now is due to the fact that my joke possibly being a non-joke isn't sufficient evidence for the rest of the town to jump in on.

So I've said all I will say on the subject of the joke. If you believe in Mes and TWG feel free to lynch me.

Now, how many lurkers do we have currently? Newb, do you have a lurker ejection policy?

[Mesden]

Yah know, I think if you read my posts from yesterday you can kinda get a general feeling of stress and such but now...

I finally realized that I'm being voted on because you don't believe I was joking. And you're right TWG, you only have my word and the links and explanations I gave. I can't ever really convince you otherwise on this point because you and Mesden are basically closing your ears and screaming "lalalalacanthearyoulalalala" and I can't break through that.

But then a day passed, and the only people who have posted are you two, which leads me to believe that the only reason I'm not swinging in the air right now is due to the fact that my joke possibly being a non-joke isn't sufficient evidence for the rest of the town to jump in on.

So I've said all I will say on the subject of the joke. If you believe in Mes and TWG feel free to lynch me.

Now, how many lurkers do we have currently? Newb, do you have a lurker ejection policy?


We're listening, all you're doing is saying the same thing. It's like telling us Fifthfiend is funny. We got it, alright?

Honestly, my opinion rests between you and TWG. He's shown me a bit more of...well, convincing info. You're giving me your word.

Look at it from my shoes. You're both on my "Keep an eye out for them" list and TWG's real proof(His posts) is higher ranking than just your word.

[Fenris]

I'm posting this to say that I won't be here until the 17th. I lost computers until the 11th, but I have Jazz Camp from the 11th-16th, so I won't be home until the 17th. Carry on without me. My vote remains for nobody.

[Mesden]

1
2 Major_Blood-Lurking
3
4 The_Wandering_God-Active
5 DarthMauler64-Lurking
6 Mesden-Active
7 B_real_shadows-Not active lately, but not lurker yet
8 h4x.m4g3-Lurking
9 Thundergod_Cid-Lurking
10 POS_Industries-Lurking
11
12 CallmePrismatic-Active
13 FenrisWolf-Away
14
15 CrazyBen-Lurking
16
17 sk3l3t0n-Not active lately, but not lurker yet

18
19
20 Silly Kitty-Not active lately, but not lurker yet
21 The Wizard Who Did It-Lurker
22 Ogianres-Not active lately, but not lurker yet
23 secretskull-Lurking
24
25 Big Mac-Lurking

[Thundergod Cid]

I'm confused here. Is there any reason why Mesden and TWG are attacking CmP other than the suspecting that the joke vote right at the beginning might not have been a joke?

[Mesden]

I'm confused here. Is there any reason why Mesden and TWG are attacking CmP other than the suspecting that the joke vote right at the beginning might not have been a joke?

That's the basis of it. The series of events from it only enforces our inquiry.

[Silly Kitty]

Mesden, the reason I'm not active right now is because CMP told me to stop talking and since I don't agree with you I simply have nothing more to contribute.

[Ogianres]

I think that pretty much all three of you are over-reacting. It was a joke, and jokes usually are part of the first-page random vote. I see it all the time in MafiaScum.net. I don't think anyone other than Mesden and TWG are taking it at all seriously, or a lot of people could just be lurkers. However, CmP is getting really over-defensive about it, and he seems to be stressing over it more than he should. All three of you would normally tie on my scum list. Mesden, being a confirmed townie, is at the bottom of my suspicions list. That leaves TWG and CmP. TWG has been using relevant posts and what has been said to explain his suspicions. CmP, as has been said before, is only relying on his word. I think I believe that CmP deserves a VOTE, and if he is townie, let me be struck down by the vigilante (if it has been/will be reassigned).

[CallmePrismatic]

Something I'd like to see...TWG's proof that I wasn't joking. Unless I'm missing something, it's my word that I was joking and TWG's word that I wasn't, except TWG's word is taken as 'proof' and I'm rubbing grains of salt.

So can someone just point out where TWG found the undeniable proof that I wasn't joking. mkaythxbai.

Also, Silly Kitty, I don't know if the "CmP told me not to talk" is serious or not, but you have 'permission' to talk now :).

[Silly Kitty]

Hehehe. I meant you told me not to defend you. Since I didn't agree with what Mes and TWG were saying I have nothing more to contribute without defending you.

[The Wandering God]

Something I'd like to see...TWG's proof that I wasn't joking. Unless I'm missing something, it's my word that I was joking and TWG's word that I wasn't, except TWG's word is taken as 'proof' and I'm rubbing grains of salt.

So can someone just point out where TWG found the undeniable proof that I wasn't joking. mkaythxbai.

Also, Silly Kitty, I don't know if the "CmP told me not to talk" is serious or not, but you have 'permission' to talk now :).
Gee, way to put words in my mouth.

I never gave proof that you were or weren't joking. I did however point out that

A) There were other viable options that could have had the same effect (FoS instead of vote)
B) That you also could have voted for someone who wasn't in the game
C) That as much as you say it was a joke, you have no right to get upset if people don't believe you.

Which is what I see happening really.

You've been acting 'scummy' more than I would consider normal. Hurling around insults and jabs is not cool. (Ex: the lackey comment and saying we entirely lack a sense of humor.)

The Wandering God

EDIT: Silly Kitty, you could look at Sith Darth's post and try and figure out why the mafia chose him.

[CallmePrismatic]

Honestly, my opinion rests between you and TWG. He's shown me a bit more of...well, convincing info. You're giving me your word.
TWG has been using relevant posts and what has been said to explain his suspicions. CmP, as has been said before, is only relying on his word
Convincing info seems to me like your word is somehow worth more than my word.

But you know, hey, I could've done a lot of things to avoid this, if I had the precognition to know what I would be avoiding. Why didn't I FOS or vote for someone else? Because in my past experience people voted straight out, if the guy was or wasn't in the game, so that's all I'm used to. I'll admit, hindsight is a crystal clear 20/20, but you're faulting me for not knowing exactly how the NPF crowd would react. It's like faulting Palm Harbor for not having adequate anti-air weaponry in place before the Japanese came.

Also, I do have a right to get mad, because it's my 'life' on the lynching block. I can either sit back like a bitch while the votes mount up, or stand up and bitch to sway opinion. Right now I think I've bitched enough to secure myself; I can't convince TWG and Mesden and I'll accept that, but the fact that I'm not swinging or facing imminent swinging seems to imply that the town thinks there isn't sufficient enough reason to see me go.

*Waits for the entire populace to pop in just to vote me away*

EDIT: And yes, I'll admit I was a bit scummy in my jabs, but I get personal when I'm put under pressure, then I feel like shit afterwards, like now. So sorry if I offended you.

[The Wandering God]

Convincing info seems to me like your word is somehow worth more than my word.

But you know, hey, I could've done a lot of things to avoid this, if I had the precognition to know what I would be avoiding. Why didn't I FOS or vote for someone else? Because in my past experience people voted straight out, if the guy was or wasn't in the game, so that's all I'm used to. I'll admit, hindsight is a crystal clear 20/20, but you're faulting me for not knowing exactly how the NPF crowd would react. It's like faulting Palm Harbor for not having adequate anti-air weaponry in place before the Japanese came.

Also, I do have a right to get mad, because it's my 'life' on the lynching block. I can either sit back like a bitch while the votes mount up, or stand up and bitch to sway opinion. Right now I think I've bitched enough to secure myself; I can't convince TWG and Mesden and I'll accept that, but the fact that I'm not swinging or facing imminent swinging seems to imply that the town thinks there isn't sufficient enough reason to see me go.

*Waits for the entire populace to pop in just to vote me away*
Well, I can hardly be blamed for the way I'm perceived by others. Then again, I would like to think that I've maintained a level head and tried to apply logic to situations where it's really difficult to figure out anything.

CmP, to be honest. That was that board. This is this one. It's basic psychology (and any good Mafia player, like you) that different groups of people could react differently to the same thing.

It really isn't fair to us that you can say, "Well this is how I've always done it before." We haven't. In addition, as a gaming community, you know we still haven't quite worked out all the kinks game-mechanics and relationship wise.

Can you honestly say that you didn't think were was any chance for a negative reaction?

And I think I can be shown that I CAN change my mind. Just like Mesden. I thought she was suspicious, but she answered in a satisfactory manner, and that's when I started focusing on you. She unvoted B_real.

And while you may or may not have a right to be mad, making remarks like you didn't won't help your case at all.

You shouldn't have to bitch to defend yourself, you should be able to come up with compelling reasons and arguments not to. Just like someone has to come up with compelling reasons to lynch.

But since your defense and the arguments to lynch you revolve around the same thing, it's partially a matter of perception. As admittedly most of the game is. (Except when we have undeniable or extreme proof otherwise.)

It's up to the rest of the town to decide for themselves.

Oh, and let's not forget that you didn't vote for Catlover.

The Wandering God

[Mondt]

For the record, I'm not exactly active because I have no opinion at the moment. I missed the beginning, so it is a lot harder for me to understand what's happening, even if I read it.

[Mesden]

Convincing info seems to me like your word is somehow worth more than my word.

It's like you ignore EVERYTHING TWG states.

Right HERE (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403595&postcount=284) is what I was talking about.

That's a LOT more than just your word. He's in the more believeable position by MY view, CmP. JEEZ, man.

[CallmePrismatic]

Ya know, I think TWG is right. I should have done all of those things, because I should have considered them, because I should have used his foresight and not gone with my own personal feelings of comedy based on past experiences. Once I soup up the Delorean and deliver the fake bomb to the Libyans, I can tell Marty to take care of my things while I find a nice stretch of road and go back to the beginning of the game to do the right thing.

That's it, I'm done. I finally see that both sides are shouting the same arguments, but only the ones I spout seem stupid because I can't add anything, while TWG and Mes have an infinite mine of "Whydidntya"-s. I can't compete with that, so I quit arguing on that front.

Oh, and let's not forget that you didn't vote for Catlover.
Nope, I didn't vote for cat. I wouldn't have voted for jeremiahcron either. Humor may not completely transmutate across Internet forums, but knee-jerk stupidity is a universal commodity thats eternally traded. I've been in a lot of games, as has been said over and over, and people who vote randomly aren't that rare. It's the button mashing-equivalent for forum mafia, something that a newcomer can do easily even though he/she may not realize how much it annoys the more experienced. In my experience, 4 out of 5 times a person who vote-mashes is just a newbie townie who wants to contribute but doesn't realize how bad it makes him look. This happened to be the 1 in 5. Hey, another good chance to use the Delorean!

[P-Sleazy]

As for me not posting in 27-28 hours, I went over to a friends house last night and had orientation at college today.

Also, I'm going to bring it up again, we can't exactly use people who didn't vote catlover as evidence against a mafiate when there were people who we're voting for catlover "having second thoughts" and then there's the whole "mafiates voting for fellow mafiates" business we might have going on.

[Mondt]

Also, I'm going to bring it up again, we can't exactly use people who didn't vote catlover as evidence against a mafiate when there were people who we're voting for catlover "having second thoughts" and then there's the whole "mafiates voting for fellow mafiates" business we might have going on.Don't forget having independant opinions.

[Silly Kitty]

I looked over Darth's posts (I didn't feel like giving links and other things because I'm lazy) and found that he defended Mes a lot or agreed with Mes a lot. It makes sense that he tried to hit her because it wouldn't have been likely anyone would have thought of the SK being him.

He gave lots of logic. He never FOSed or voted for anyone (At least, when I looked I didn't see any votes). He did say he would be keeping an eye on Mes, Catlover, and B_Real.

From what I can tell he was either a random kill or the mafia thought he was potentially dangerous.

[Mesden]

Ya know, I think TWG is right. I should have done all of those things, because I should have considered them, because I should have used his foresight and not gone with my own personal feelings of comedy based on past experiences. Once I soup up the Delorean and deliver the fake bomb to the Libyans, I can tell Marty to take care of my things while I find a nice stretch of road and go back to the beginning of the game to do the right thing.

That's it, I'm done. I finally see that both sides are shouting the same arguments, but only the ones I spout seem stupid because I can't add anything, while TWG and Mes have an infinite mine of "Whydidntya"-s. I can't compete with that, so I quit arguing on that front.


Nope, I didn't vote for cat. I wouldn't have voted for jeremiahcron either. Humor may not completely transmutate across Internet forums, but knee-jerk stupidity is a universal commodity thats eternally traded. I've been in a lot of games, as has been said over and over, and people who vote randomly aren't that rare. It's the button mashing-equivalent for forum mafia, something that a newcomer can do easily even though he/she may not realize how much it annoys the more experienced. In my experience, 4 out of 5 times a person who vote-mashes is just a newbie townie who wants to contribute but doesn't realize how bad it makes him look. This happened to be the 1 in 5. Hey, another good chance to use the Delorean!


CmP, getting a bit worked up here.

Again, I've not said "Why didn't ya" aside from the carrying of the joke. Don't get mad because we're using a view point. It's how this game goes.

You're being too hostile, CmP. I know my last posts makes that a bit hypocritical, but you take everything I say and blow it to proportion. I was talking about ONE whole post and you get uppity on that. You messed up my quote and I'll admit my reaction was overzealous.

Let's calm this down and take it back a step. I believe TWG just because of the sequence of events he SHOWED me throughout the thread which happens to be true. Either you've gotten unlucky in this sequence or you ARE mafia. It's just how it unfolds to ME.

I'm not crucifying you over the Catlover thing and anyone else using it should take a good healthy look at the first mafia game.

Edit to put quote in.

[secretskull]

I didn't post because I didn't have anything to say. Now I do. This thing has been totally overblown, and it seems both sides are getting angry. Let's all just take this slightly less personally. It’s just a game.
I'd also like to add one thing, while this discussion is going on it would be better if everyone (including myself) joined in on it, even if they don't have very much to add. A mafiate could easily hide, if only three people post.

[Ogianres]

CmP, you are just being aggresive and sarcastic now, which doesn't help in the slightest. And don't tell me that you are acting this way because of vote pressure. If I get an influx of votes right now it wouldn't bother me. Why? Because as a townie, my death can actually help gain insight. I believe that the same would apply to any townie that may be lynched. IMO the only people who believes that being lynched is nothing but bad (for them) are anti-town. If you are townie and die, I, and many others I would hope, would seriously evaluate all the posts of this day.

[Silly Kitty]

Ogianres, aren't you forgetting about someone? The PO and reporter aren't anti-townie. Wouldn't it be bad if they died? Wouldn't they be upset if they were going to be lynched?

[Ogianres]

You do have a very good point SK. However, I don't have any reason to believe that CmP is cop, and reporter is a very big if on the town/anit-town thing. If CmP has substantial evidence to suggest that he is reporter/cop/doc/whatever then I would not vote for him.

[P-Sleazy]

to TWG and well, after looking over what I have to say, all townies.

I just noticed that if all you do is ride on Mesden's known reputation to be a townie, and vote however she votes. That means that this game is basically ALL up to her in terms of finding mafiates. If the whole town is just waiting for her to vote before voting, then I suggest you do otherwise unless you want a GIANT FOS on each and every one of your heads. Thats makes it MUCHtoo easy for the mafia to hide amongst townies.

And Mesden, please take care to notice who you vote for, and the people who vote for them along with you. I fear the mafia MAY try to hide themselves among the slew of townies who go "well if Mesden says it, it MUST be right since she's a known townie," although more cleverly hidden.:shifty:

[CallmePrismatic]

CmP, you are just being aggresive and sarcastic now, which doesn't help in the slightest. And don't tell me that you are acting this way because of vote pressure. If I get an influx of votes right now it wouldn't bother me. Why? Because as a townie, my death can actually help gain insight. I believe that the same would apply to any townie that may be lynched. IMO the only people who believes that being lynched is nothing but bad (for them) are anti-town. If you are townie and die, I, and many others I would hope, would seriously evaluate all the posts of this day.
I'm not saying you're stupid, but that is a very stupid outlook on the game.

Let me just save some time and deja vu my original response to something similar to this...
The "Well at least we have the people that matter"-mentality is always a dangerous mindset to assume, because soon (and in these games 'never' usually doesn't come up) the people that didn't 'really' matter are all gone and the mafia has a majority hold of the population. Basically, every Town-aligned person matters.

This is purely a numbers game with a wide enough lens. As long as we have more than 4 townies, the mafia can't win. That doesn't mean that we can afford to 'accidentally' lynch a few townies as long as we stay above 4, because the mafia deliberately thins the herd and our overeagerness would only serve to help our enemy.

As to your views of self preservation, your philosophy is flawed in a Salem Witch Trial sense; From what I'm seeing, you're saying "Ya know, if you weren't a witch you wouldn't mind being drowned or burned at the stake because you'd be going to Heaven." I can gauruntee that I'm not alone in saying that me and every other town-aligned role wants to survive till the final mafiate is lynched.

But, let's say that the votes materialize out of nowhere and I get lynched and after I'm revealed to be a townie people try to sift through the wreckage and point to the prime suspects...who would they find? Mes and TWG...except Mes is a confirmed townie and TWG and everybody else who votes could just claim that they were following Mes's initative because, hey, she was confirmed and she had such great evidence and how were we to know...

See, that's why I'm fighting this lynching.

[Silly Kitty]

B_Real, where did you get that the town was waiting for what Mes was going to do? I think we all can see that Mes is just a regular townie who has no more knowledge than the rest of us. I think that TWG just meant she is one person we can trust and mark off the list of people who could be mafia.

[Mesden]

B_Real, where did you get that the town was waiting for what Mes was going to do? I think we all can see that Mes is just a regular townie who has no more knowledge than the rest of us. I think that TWG just meant she is one person we can trust and mark off the list of people who could be mafia.

Actually, I'm a townie who has an outlook with two other townies on the goings on. You'd be surprised the view this gives you and the way the arguments are.

Also, PLEASE oh PLEASE don't follow my every whim. Consider me a good player all you want and a "trustable" person, but know that the "Greater" you're made out to be the greater your mistake will be.

Also, I've not been perfectly in mind set lately so I'm probably missing a good bit of things I would'nt normally.

[P-Sleazy]

B_Real, where did you get that the town was waiting for what Mes was going to do? I think we all can see that Mes is just a regular townie who has no more knowledge than the rest of us. I think that TWG just meant she is one person we can trust and mark off the list of people who could be mafia.

Thar you go.

Honestly, I'm going to see what Mesden has to say and basically go along with whatever she says. Yes, I know she's not infallible, and that she could get a townie lynched, but I can trust that she isn't a threat.

Took the whole paragraph since if I only took the first sentence of it, it would be COMPLETELY out of context and taken the wrong way and not somehthing I want happening. If I had been taken only the first sentence, it would have read as if he were going to unconditionally vote along with Mesden.

EDIT: since there seems to be some people worried about not posting(and lurkers associated with that), I'm going to tell you now, I dont know if I'll get a chance to post tommorow (atleast not until late night), due to me spending the night at my friends tonight and then going straight to work afterwards.

[DarthMauler64]

I haven't posted because of finishing up finals, packing up my stuff, and driving home from college. I probally won't be able to post tomorrow either because I am going to a family picnic.

I didn't see this in the thread, so sorry if it was already answered, but are all mason's townies? or could they possibly be mafia?

[Bailey]

masonhood is a personalit trait rather than a role.

any role could be a mason, from doctors to detectives to mafiates.

[h4x.m4g3]

I'll admit I've been lurking, because I have my sister, her two daughters, and her dog up here, visiting and basically controlling my room. Making it impossible for me to think. So I can't contribute anything other then what my gut tells me, and right now my gut tells me don't vote CmP, at least not yet, not enough to go on, other than the 'joke/possible veil' incident. So for now I must watch and wait.

[The Wandering God]

For the record, I'm not exactly active because I have no opinion at the moment. I missed the beginning, so it is a lot harder for me to understand what's happening, even if I read it.
Well, you could start by taking a look at this post (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403113&postcount=258)

Ya know, I think TWG is right. I should have done all of those things, because I should have considered them, because I should have used his foresight and not gone with my own personal feelings of comedy based on past experiences. Once I soup up the Delorean and deliver the fake bomb to the Libyans, I can tell Marty to take care of my things while I find a nice stretch of road and go back to the beginning of the game to do the right thing.
I'll admit, I actually did find that funny.

But moving on to the message in it, I think I can finally pinpoint the problem. "I should have used foresight and not gone with my own personal feelings..."

Bingo. THAT is what has been itching at the back of my brain.

Because yes, you should have used foresight instead of emotion. By all means, I'm not saying we make this a souless game entirely devoid of humor (Like I said, that did make me laugh), but playing based on "feelings" is dangerous. I learned that lesson the hard way. C'mon, I still don't believe it would take a great amount of forethought to figure that it could go bad.

That's it, I'm done. I finally see that both sides are shouting the same arguments, but only the ones I spout seem stupid because I can't add anything, while TWG and Mes have an infinite mine of "Whydidntya"-s. I can't compete with that, so I quit arguing on that front.
Because of the simple fact that out of all the choices you had to make the joke, you did it the way you did. Now would you prefer I call you stupid, instead? Because if you honestly made that mistake, you wouldn't be playing at near your best.

Nope, I didn't vote for cat. I wouldn't have voted for jeremiahcron either. Humor may not completely transmutate across Internet forums, but knee-jerk stupidity is a universal commodity thats eternally traded. I've been in a lot of games, as has been said over and over, and people who vote randomly aren't that rare. It's the button mashing-equivalent for forum mafia, something that a newcomer can do easily even though he/she may not realize how much it annoys the more experienced. In my experience, 4 out of 5 times a person who vote-mashes is just a newbie townie who wants to contribute but doesn't realize how bad it makes him look. This happened to be the 1 in 5. Hey, another good chance to use the Delorean!
Actually it was more of a point that when added to everything else, really does paint a picture of guilt to me. To say voting history shouldn't be used as it is one of the few concrete things that everyone can look at and agree on, is very bad indeed. Not an entire reason to vote, but it does carry weight.


Also, I'm going to bring it up again, we can't exactly use people who didn't vote catlover as evidence against a mafiate when there were people who we're voting for catlover "having second thoughts" and then there's the whole "mafiates voting for fellow mafiates" business we might have going on.
See above. Not saying it should be the only reason to decide things, but it DOES matter. And I think (not sure about this), that I was the first person (and again, not sure, but I think) am the only one who actually made a point of it so far. Please, point out any instances I missed.

Don't forget having independant opinions.
I know you weren't addressing me, but I would like to take the time to clarify what I meant earlier.

If I were simply following Mesden, then I wouldn't have this back and forth with CmP. I simply would have voted for her and sat on my thumbs.

I think it may have gotten twisted a bit, (or admittedly, I didn't express it clearly enough) that I would follow her lead if push came to shove. I was already suspicous of CmP even before Mesden was revealed a townie, so you can hardly say I'm coming out of nowhere when it comes to voting for CmP.

Ogianres, aren't you forgetting about someone? The PO and reporter aren't anti-townie. Wouldn't it be bad if they died? Wouldn't they be upset if they were going to be lynched?
But there is always roleclaim in that case. Unless of course that isn't allowed. Newb?


But, let's say that the votes materialize out of nowhere and I get lynched and after I'm revealed to be a townie people try to sift through the wreckage and point to the prime suspects...who would they find? Mes and TWG...except Mes is a confirmed townie and TWG and everybody else who votes could just claim that they were following Mes's initative because, hey, she was confirmed and she had such great evidence and how were we to know...

See, that's why I'm fighting this lynching.
1) I've seen the "when you find out I'm a townie" defense before. And it's track record isn't too hot if memory serves me correctly. (Meaning that quite a few mafiates used it. Then again, that's just me.)

However, I will not stand for an accusation that I'm just "going along with her". Like I said, if I was doing that, I wouldn't be posting back and forth with you. Ya know, giving you chances to defend yourself, as opposed to repeated attempts to say that I don't listen. Even though I frequently quote and address your points.

The Wandering God

[secretskull]

CmP, you are just being aggresive and sarcastic now, which doesn't help in the slightest. And don't tell me that you are acting this way because of vote pressure. If I get an influx of votes right now it wouldn't bother me. Why? Because as a townie, my death can actually help gain insight. I believe that the same would apply to any townie that may be lynched. IMO the only people who believes that being lynched is nothing but bad (for them) are anti-town. If you are townie and die, I, and many others I would hope, would seriously evaluate all the posts of this day.

Ogianres, your posts have felt off to me from the beginning. I didn't want to say anything until now, because it would be basically trying to lynch you off a gut feeling. But right now, you practically went out of your way to state that you are a townie. To me it looks as if you tried to mention it in passing, but didn't manage it. This is a scummish thing as far as I am concerned. Sure, it is possible that you said this because you are a townie, and are trying to protect yourself, which is why I'm only FOSing you right now.
FOS Ogianres

[CrazyBen]

Sorry I haven't posted lately. I've been busy with graduation and besides, all the good points have been made 10X over by now, all I can contribute would be "I (dis)agree!" I'll be waiting to vote untill later. So please, don't acusse me of lurking, or ditching the game.

[Silly Kitty]

But there is always roleclaim in that case. Unless of course that isn't allowed. Newb?

Role claims are allowed. I think it would be kind of foolish for a PO/Reporter to role claim on the second day. That would leave the doctor tied up and he couldn't protect anyone else. That is never a good thing.

[P-Sleazy]

Vote Count: Because I think we need one by now damnit.

CmP
Mesden (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403104&postcount=256) (I'm pretty sure she hasn't unvoted him yet)
TWG (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403273&postcount=269) (Missed this vote)
B_Real (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403290&postcount=277) (yea I voted already if you havent noticed. 40-50 posts back)
EDIT:Ogianres (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403672&postcount=292) Wasn't sure about this vote till Ogianres clarified this for me me. It counts.

and that's all folks.

Gonna pull up both the vote posts for ya in my edit.

Put in TWG's vote which I missed earlier and put in links to each vote post, however out of context they are. They are all fairly out of context.

Double Edit: Fixed Ogianres' vote to be counted with the other 3 votes.

[Major Blood]

The reason i haven't been posting is because i had nothing to post, but now i do. But i'll have to post it tomorrow morning. Look then.

[Ogianres]

Yes B_Real, I did vote for CmP.

[P-Sleazy]

Could we get a deadline from you Newb?

[Mesden]

I think Newb isn't available for a bit. Something about not being around for a few days. He mentioned it in Inexperienced.

Also, this thread is a bit stagnant due to lack of deadline and participation by most. Seeing as me, TWG and CmP are the main ones doing anything anymore.

[P-Sleazy]

I'm now waiting on Major Blood to post whatever it is he has to post, the deadline to be mentioned, and well, some goddamn activity from the inactives. We can't do a whole lot if over half the people playing are inactive. Its Berserk mafia all over again!

[Bailey]

Deadline is monday morning.

[CallmePrismatic]

Deadline is monday morning.
Great, I die due to being stupid and non-precognitive in my first post and a deadline. Super. Expect me to use all 75 of my words on cusses.

[Mesden]

Great, I die due to being stupid and non-precognitive in my first post and a deadline. Super. Expect me to use all 75 of my words on cusses.

CmP, stop being SO damned hung up over it for one. It's not ONLY that. You keep isolating EVERY SINGLE point we make and EMPHASIZING it to an extreme.

JEEZ, CmP. It's a game. You didn't see me getting upset in Berserk because I was killed off early, did you?

And being overly hostile and overzealous OVER something like this makes me believe you're either the PO, Reporter or Mafia. Which one has the better odds?

[Thundergod Cid]

I think that pretty much all three of you are over-reacting. It was a joke, and jokes usually are part of the first-page random vote. I see it all the time in MafiaScum.net. I don't think anyone other than Mesden and TWG are taking it at all seriously, or a lot of people could just be lurkers. However, CmP is getting really over-defensive about it, and he seems to be stressing over it more than he should. All three of you would normally tie on my scum list. Mesden, being a confirmed townie, is at the bottom of my suspicions list. That leaves TWG and CmP. TWG has been using relevant posts and what has been said to explain his suspicions. CmP, as has been said before, is only relying on his word. I think I believe that CmP deserves a VOTE, and if he is townie, let me be struck down by the vigilante (if it has been/will be reassigned).
So you say they're overreacting, and then you still vote for CmP? You say that they're voting for him for dumb reasons, and then complain that he's being angrily defensive? You favor TWG over CmP because you like his style of arguing more?

FoS: ogianres. Explain your actions better, please.

[Mondt]

In my opinion, Ogianres' actions make sense to me. He's super-defensive, and thus has a reason to be. Like being mafia. Let's put it in steps:

1) People are overreacting over his joke
2) He gets really defensive, although it's a stupid claim anyway.
3) Lots of big words and angry people.
4) Reason to vote for either TWG, Mesden, or CmP. CmP, being the party with one person seems like he might deserve a vote more. How -- that works out is beyond me.

It may just be CmP, or it might be that he has a role/trait which makes him important somehow. We aren't sure, but he seems more suspicious than anyone at the moment. Which is reason to vote for him. I'll hold off 'til later tonight for a vote, though.

[Mesden]

In my opinion, Ogianres' actions make sense to me. He's super-defensive, and thus has a reason to be. Like being mafia. Let's put it in steps:

1) People are overreacting over his joke
2) He gets really defensive, although it's a stupid claim anyway.
3) Lots of big words and angry people.
4) Reason to vote for either TWG, Mesden, or CmP. CmP, being the party with one person seems like he might deserve a vote more. How -- that works out is beyond me.

It may just be CmP, or it might be that he has a role/trait which makes him important somehow. We aren't sure, but he seems more suspicious than anyone at the moment. Which is reason to vote for him. I'll hold off 'til later tonight for a vote, though.

Uh...didn't...Didn't I say that...Like, a few times?

[Silly Kitty]

Okay, I never thought CMP would be guilty just because of joke and that didn't go as planned. I did think he was mafia because he seemed to know what the mafia would do and gave a lot of reasons about mafia stuff. I know that could just be because he once was mafia but Twiddy in SOL mafia did the same thing and turned out to be mafia. I am not going to vote now because if he is a townie it looks like I was mafia and just trying to get someone gone. If he is mafia it looks like I'm mafia and just voting for him to clear my name. It is a lose lose situation for me. So, I am going to hold my vote.

[CallmePrismatic]

Vote: Ogianres

Now, this may seem like a desperate bid, and in fact it was on a 'well I'm gone anyway'-whim I decided to check it out, but Ogianres is a big posterchild for the "Hide Under the Wings of the More Experienced"-award.

In chronological order...
And now I'm going to FoS:Catlover20410 for voting, unvoting, THEN VOTING again for the same person.VOTE: Catlover
I considered just FOS'ing him, but I believe his votes had very little reasoning, and I think he may be trying to get a bandwagon started. In fact, getting a bandwagon on Mesden would not only be easy, but if she is lynched and is townie, then it's easier to make it look like an honest mistake.
Innocent enough, the button-mashing as it were seems (and turned out to be) very scummy, so voting for one makes sense.

*3 pages pass*

Upon reflection, I'd say Catlover is the same as last time. A citizen with entirely too much zeal, and easily led at that. A dangerous weapon in the hands of a skilled mafiate manipulator. Or a nuisance.

But maybe not mafiate. Maybe not.
I have to agree that Catlover is probably an overzealous townie. I've seen people act like that before. UNVOTENow, me and Ogianres seem to have had similar experiences with button mashing, but he appears to switch between "Vote-mashers are all mafia!" and "Yah know, most vote-mashers I've known are overzealous town-aligned." Quite an easy switch it seems.

Later he FOS's Supreme Edgemaster for voting for a No Lynch (something I'd like to think I'm well known to be against, but not vain enough to claim some sort of CmP Postulate), but it isn't as pronounced as the other examples even though two other people posted pretty much the same thing before him.

One, or both of you, are acting extremely peculiar.
Actually TWG, that is very sound reasoning. Unfortunately, I get very paranoid when someone else says something that would convince me rather than just them saying something I already agree with... I think that's the reason I have some weird gut feeling about CmP and Mesden. Ick, no wonder it's so hard for me to figure things out.Wow, second time he's agreed with something TWG said.

At this point in my research I considered the possibility that TWG and Ogianres were two Masons, but that would mean Mes would have to be the third and there's too much bickering between the two/three to be possible. It seems to me that Ogianres just seems poised to agree with TWG at the slighest moment...
Catlover
H4x.M4g3
Thundergod Cid
Silly Kitty
Fenris Wolf
Darth Mauler 64
The Wandering God
Although I fear I may be joining a scum bandwagon, but I fear more that we could miss scum if we choose not to vote, so VOTE: Catlover.Ya know, all the fuss was made over catlover switching votes with abandon, but Ogianres has been doing it the entire game...well, as long as other people were doing it. Something else to note is that at that vote count point, catlover had officially garnered more (1 to be exact) more votes than B_real. If I had to guess, Oggy may have realized that one of his own was going down no matter what and if he had to put a vote down it might as well be for the bad guys so if anyone looked over it later...

I'm going to FOS: CmP.

I believe that I can for sure trust Mesden now. Before, I didn't believe I could trust her because she could be both experienced and scum, but now I know she's experienced and townie. However, the fact that he keeps defending himself regarding the joke post is ridiculous. It was a joke post, and I don't think anyone should be suspicious about a joke post. Instead, I think that suspicion should be cast upon those who seemed to agree/take the joke post too seriously.Gotcha, Mes is a revealed townie and NOW we trust her...well her and TWG, and that's 2 outta 3. Also, I like how he acknowledges that he realizes its a joke, and says that the suspicion should be cast on those who took the joke seriously...like Mes and TWG. At this point I'm sure he was glad he invested in that Paradox Dampener.
*3 pages of back and forth later*
I think that pretty much all three of you are over-reacting. It was a joke, and jokes usually are part of the first-page random vote. I see it all the time in MafiaScum.net. I don't think anyone other than Mesden and TWG are taking it at all seriously, or a lot of people could just be lurkers. However, CmP is getting really over-defensive about it, and he seems to be stressing over it more than he should. All three of you would normally tie on my scum list. Mesden, being a confirmed townie, is at the bottom of my suspicions list. That leaves TWG and CmP. TWG has been using relevant posts and what has been said to explain his suspicions. CmP, as has been said before, is only relying on his word. I think I believe that CmP deserves a VOTE, and if he is townie, let me be struck down by the vigilante (if it has been/will be reassigned).So Mes and TWG are still taking it seriously, I'm still being overdefensive, and since I'm in the minority I deserve the vote. Also, I'd talk about the 'relying only on my word' thing but I covered that.

After that he does the "Hey why are you so mad about being on the lynching block?"-thing I shot down.

Even after all that, however, I saw that he had been given a personality allowing him to see 'Night Actions' or something (he hasn't really given a detailed explanation), so I thought I might be misguided, digging up dirt on a townie. But then Newb explained how personalities and alignments/roles are different and can be stacked as it were, so that threw out that particular hole.

So I'm going to stick with that vote. I believe he is a mafiate who's clung to the underbelly of whoever could draw the most support, and attention, away from him.

[P-Sleazy]

What's sad is that makes WAY more sense than anything I've heard so far. Not to mention, after reading each of those posts, in the way you ordered them mind you, I've noticed that generally everything he said, was a restatement of TWG. He didn't actually contribute anything in those posts when you showed his posts after TWG's post.

BTW, nice of you to finally try and take some heat off yourself and Bounce it off at someone else.

I'll be looking over all of Ogianres' posts (and related TWG posts) tonight before I decide on whether I'll be changing my vote or not.

[CallmePrismatic]

What's sad is that makes WAY more sense than anything I've heard so far. Not to mention, after reading each of those posts, in the way you ordered them mind you, I've noticed that generally everything he said, was a restatement of TWG. He didn't actually contribute anything in those posts when you showed his posts after TWG's post.
.
If by 'ordered' you mean 'presented chronologically', then yeah, that's how it sorta looks.

[Thundergod Cid]

Because of CmP's post and the fact that Ogianres has been on and didn't respond to either of the posts against him (Newb said we could check to see when someone was last on (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401075&postcount=154)) I shall now upgrade my finger of suspicion to a Vote: Ogianres.

[P-Sleazy]

Catlover
H4x.M4g3
Thundergod Cid
Silly Kitty
Fenris Wolf
Darth Mauler 64
The Wandering God


Although I fear I may be joining a scum bandwagon, but I fear more that we could miss scum if we choose not to vote, so VOTE: Catlover.

Ya know, all the fuss was made over catlover switching votes with abandon, but Ogianres has been doing it the entire game...well, as long as other people were doing it. Something else to note is that at that vote count point, catlover had officially garnered more (1 to be exact) more votes than B_real. If I had to guess, Oggy may have realized that one of his own was going down no matter what and if he had to put a vote down it might as well be for the bad guys so if anyone looked over it later...

In this little tidbit you made, Twiddy already voted for Catlover before Ogianres voted, which btw, was right after Newb's deadline post. So I think it was more as a realization that was made once Newb posted the Deadline, and him just continueing to use TWG as his foil so to speak.

And Lo and Behold (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401978&postcount=219) A post that isn't influenced by TWG other than his first post.

And then there's also this little number here.

Actually, I have a personality. It isn't too useful sometimes, but it can be. You see, I can't help it, I'm extremely nosy. I like to know what other people are doing. At night, I spy on people. If anybody is doing anything to somebody else, I will know. I can tell when somebody is heading towards someone else's house, but I can only tell who's being targeted. Like last night, I saw a shadowy figure heading to TWG's house, and someone else tailing them. Some things I notice can be helpful, but not all. It's kind of like the death scene where it may include a clue or red herring.
Anyways, I can't see anyone being suspicious right now, but I will keep my eye on things. Especially you Mesden. That's right, I read the other games [/joking].

Well the reporter was reassigned but either the vig didn't get reassigned or if someone got it they didn't use their night role. I certainly didn't notice anything last night.

But certainly you must have seen who was targetted right and how the person got there right Ogianres? Otherwise, I would think you're faking the whole "personality trait" you got going for you.

And then theres his defense (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403221&postcount=266)from my FOS on him (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=403245&postcount=265)that seems to make MUCH more sense now really.

My accusation there was saying that If he and TWWDI were both mafiates they could have swung that vote on me easy. But since TWWDI voted for Catlover, and if Ogianres was a mafiate, he didn't vote for me because that wouldn't aid him any in helping keep a fellow mafiate alive, but it COULD help him keep suspicions off of him. And if BOTH TWWDI and OGIANRES were mafiates, they probably would have tried to save Catlover. And he also FOS'd me for the 4th freakin time there! Its only the SECOND DAY!

CmP, you are just being aggresive and sarcastic now, which doesn't help in the slightest. And don't tell me that you are acting this way because of vote pressure. If I get an influx of votes right now it wouldn't bother me. Why? Because as a townie, my death can actually help gain insight. I believe that the same would apply to any townie that may be lynched. IMO the only people who believes that being lynched is nothing but bad (for them) are anti-town. If you are townie and die, I, and many others I would hope, would seriously evaluate all the posts of this day.
Speak of the devil, we're evaluating your posts BEFORE the day is up.;)
And there's that big IF right there too. IF you got an influx of votes it wouldn't bother you? Hmmmm, probably cause there hasn't been a single vote for you yet.

You do have a very good point SK. However, I don't have any reason to believe that CmP is cop, and reporter is a very big if on the town/anit-town thing. If CmP has substantial evidence to suggest that he is reporter/cop/doc/whatever then I would not vote for him.

But what if HE DID say he was the cop/reporter, There would be NO WAY whatsoever that he could provide that substantial evidence without it being bad for the town. If he did say he was a cop, all he would have to do is say "so and so is a townie" and so and so would agree with him regardless of his role because that means that he wont be lynched and MUCH less likely to be hit at night. He could even be a mafiate, as a fellow mafiate to sacrifice himself, and there, he's "proven" a cop when in fact isnt.

SO...I'll UNVOTE: CmP
and VOTE: Ogianres

Phew, Never thought I'd do one of these SUPER posts

Edit: Fixed Quote Tags

Double Edit to CmP: Well, people can order quotes to make things look more incriminating. But yes, you did do them Chronologically. ;)

[Silly Kitty]

Forgive me for not reading that post earlier, CMP. I saw a huge post and just went, ^^', maybe later. You do make a lot of sense with that post. When he clings to what others say that are more experienced he really taking the light off himself. I don't know if that really clears your name CMP but I am going to have to FOS: Ogianres. If he doesn't give me a reason not to vote for him I will vote for him tonight.


Edit: Ninja'd by B_real. All I have to say is wow. Vote: Ogianres. Post 26 is really what clicked it for me.

[Mondt]

Because of CmP's post and the fact that Ogianres has been on and didn't respond to either of the posts against him (Newb said we could check to see when someone was last on (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401075&postcount=154)) I shall now upgrade my finger of suspicion to a Vote: Ogianres.How does that make sense?

Damn. I find myself arguing against bad reasoning again, while looking like a I defend someone.

I'm on a lot, actually, I never log off. If I don't get on for a day or two, is that reason to vote for me? It's possible that he hasn't even seen those attacks.

Edit: Why is having a trait like that bad? Man, logic must be failing me or something.
Edit2: How is post 249 hurting him? He said he didn't notice anything about the vig, or who he may have targetted. How is that contradicting his claimed night-trait? I don't know if I'm thinking too hard, or if I just have bad luck and he's a mafiate, but this is kind of ridiculous to me.

[h4x.m4g3]

Vote: Organies
CMP's showed me that basically he was doing the same thing as Catlover (going in the same direction of the wind, i.e. TWG) and post 26 and 249 showed me, a contradiction I overlooked, although I must say 306 helped push the last little bit. Thanks CMP and B_Real for seeig what I couldn't. (Man I've been out of it).


But before I go...
I have thought of one thing, since their has been some talk of role claims and the reporters alignment. I decided to just put 2 and 2 together, if someone roleclaims the reporter should just investigate them that night. Why? One they've already roleclaimed, meaning their either a target for the mafia (because now the mafia knows who they are), or mafia-ette that's lying. And Two the reporter auto-publishes the results without having to give out his info. If someone roleclaims the reporter then we'll know the truth by the next day, when either A. the real reporter reveals their true identity, or B. They are the reporter and they spend their night investigating someone else.

The moral of this post- if someone roleclaims your role, don't counter-claim, just hope the reporter heeds my words, and does his job.

editing for clarity and to add:
I really hate being late to the show for these votes, but hell it beats being inactive.

[Silly Kitty]

It is bad when a person doesn't respond to a vote because you don't know their defense. You don't know if they can explain themselves or dig a deeper hole. In keeping quiet, if the evidence isn't really that great, the person can get himself out of a vote.

[The Wizard Who Did It]

Laziness sucks ass.

There are multiple things that have gone on here that I could commentate on, mainly all the accusations against CMP. I mean, this entire game seems to have been the same argument over and over again for some 200 posts, and that’s kind of sad.

CMP, really, it was a joke. This is the NPF. I’m sure that the people here know how to take a joke. As to the accusation that he should have “FoSed” Mesden rather than “Voting” her, the joke was that he would vote her. It would kill the joke if he said, “Now, I said I was going to vote for the second the game started, but I’m going to be a pansy and only FoS on fear of death.”

However, he did keep up the defense for too long. I’m not going to go into what he should have done, but he was way too defensive and way too dramatic. And this…
Great, I die due to being stupid and non-precognitive in my first post and a deadline. Super. Expect me to use all 75 of my words on cusses.
Almost sounds like begging. However, I can’t really find whatever feelings or vibes I get from this situation useful as compared to, say, all of the stuff dug up by CMP himself and B Real against Ogianres. All of the points explain themselves, really. Can’t say I have too much to add except that he always reminded me of a player who was there but didn’t really help.

… Not that I can really talk…

Because of this, I’m just going to put out there an FoS: CMP and a Vote: Ogianres out there.

[P-Sleazy]

How does that make sense?

Damn. I find myself arguing against bad reasoning again, while looking like a I defend someone.

I'm on a lot, actually, I never log off. If I don't get on for a day or two, is that reason to vote for me? It's possible that he hasn't even seen those attacks.

Edit: Why is having a trait like that bad? Man, logic must be failing me or something.
Edit2: How is post 249 hurting him? He said he didn't notice anything about the vig, or who he may have targetted. How is that contradicting his claimed night-trait? I don't know if I'm thinking too hard, or if I just have bad luck and he's a mafiate, but this is kind of ridiculous to me.

Firstly it makes sense because CmP brought up his accusations at 8:36 pm and after checking when Ogianres was last on, it shows that he was last on at 10:52. Thats almost 2 hours later. Now, what he was doing at that time,
we don't know, other than, he was active on these here boards before 10:52 with more than enough time between the post, and him being active for him to have seen that post had he been keeping up with this thread (which I'll admit, it seems quite a few people aren't right now)

Now the trait isn't necessarily bad, but he said he sees stuff that goes on at night. He didn't see what happened the last night, but he saw stuff going on the first night. And his description of the scene was very general and could have easily been thought up of to Ecurt's accusation of "knowing" Ogianres has a role. This could have just been a quick cover-up by Ogianres to hide these tracks and he messed up by saying he didn't see anything the last night. Thusly, I can only be led to beleive that he's faking the whole thing. And THATS how it hurts him.

EDIT: and also, Only knowing who was targetted. Well isn't that convenient that Newb TELLS EVERYONE who was targetting the night before, unless they were targetted by the PO or the Doc protected someone who wasn't hit. Hell, the person he gave us was someone who was hit and saved, and we found that out in the death post. If it really were "nosy" trait, he'd be able to tell us who was targetted by the PO, since he know's who was targetted and all.

[The Wandering God]

Actually the nosy trait could explain why Sithdarth got hit. Remember, he tried (and failed) to get Mesden.

Who then died.

How convenient.

And I don't like it when someone sticks that close to me.

Unvote:CmP
Vote: Ogrianes

However, I still have an FoS: CmP going on. This will either disappear or become another vote depending on Ogrianes status.

The Wandering God

[Mondt]

[stuff about what I said]Actually, that makes more sense now. Not a lot more, but it at least gives a decent reason to vote for him. I didn't understand the trait thing perfectly... but... :O_o:

Also, TWG, your voting for him because he helped the town? So, it's like a vote out of fear?

Edit: Y'know what? I was about to put a vote in this edit, and then I realized that nearly everyone who was voting for CmP switched to Ogianres. And people were only voting for CmP before this. Meh...

[Bailey]

CmP looked around at the four people who were carrying him to the gallows. "Hey! What are you guys doing? I'm not guilty, he is!" CmP pointed at one of the people carrying him, Ogianres.

Everybody looked around confused as Cmp got out of their grasp and grabbed Ogian. Before Ogian could respond, he was headed for the gallows. Fairly quickly, he was on a stool with a rope around his neck. He fumbled for something in his pocket, and pulled out a pair of binoculars, but lost his balance and died. The binoculars dropped to the ground. On inspection, they read "nosy civilian".

A sheaf of notes fluttered to the ground.

It is now night 2!

only Ogian may post, and that to say what 75 characters were on the sheaf of notes!

[Ogianres]

I hope very much that my death can help you all gain a good perspective. My last wish is that people not let my death be in vain. Good luck town, you may need it.

[EDIT]: Too many characters.

[Bailey]

Extra Extra!

Read all about it!

The Wandering God, a civilian, has a medical datachip under his skin which automatically places a call to the doctor when he's targetted!

************************

B_Real is found dead with a silver bullet in his chest. Upon inspection, he's a normal civilian.

***********************

There is a crowd gathered around the bar, singing.

Oh, it's bad luck to be you.
A chosen one of many isn't new
When you think you're full of luck
in the bullock's you'll get struck
Oh, it's bad luck to be you.

Now, Sk3l3t0n was talkative.
And his talents helped many to live.
But the mafiates they did flock,
And he’s no longer on the clock.
I guess something just had to give.

Oh, it's bad luck to be you.
The prophecy is never coming true
In a pickle you'll be stuck
Like a chicken you'll cluck
Oh, it's bad luck to be you.

He managed to save two souls
Thus far he achieved all his goals
But it really makes me sick
Now his heart will no longer tick
And his fire has faded down to coals.

Oh, it's bad luck to be you.
Don't think for just a second it's not true
When your life has run amuck
You'll see that you're the schmuck.
Oh, it's bad luck to be
Really bad luck to be
Nobody could disagree.
It's a freaking guarantee.
Oh, it's bad luck to be you.
Diddly doo.

The crowd runs off.

It is now day.

[Silly Kitty]

So, does that mean Sk3l3t0n is dead? And talkative means mason? Also, how did two people get killed? I thought the vig role didn't get reassigned..

Edit: Was Skelly also a BG? *is so confused by the song*

[Mondt]

I trid. Dont think 2 much in2 this. Just a game. Get btr resoning. Yus, I was talk-doc.

[Mesden]

Obviously it did, or some hidden power.

And yes, Skel WAS a mason AND the Doctor. His defense was for the wrong person, sadly enough, and now the town is out two more.

It's 14 people left. 12 we aren't sure of. I and TWG are the only townies confirmed. 4 mafiates left.

So, one out of 3 people here that aren't confirmed are Mafia. I'm reinstating my Vote: CmP seeing as now my suspicion of TWG is completely put to rest and he's on top of my list. ESPECIALLY with the other person being TWG against CmP.

[Bailey]

the silver gun went into the lost and found.

everybody who asked for the role was put into a random prize drawing, and the winner is now the vig.

[P-Sleazy]

I'm assuming I'm also allowed a death post :sweatdrop
Start:
damn, I got Vigilanteed, And I actually knew about the "reassignment" ordeal.
:end

[The Wandering God]

Oh I I get it. You had to ask. Thus the hint for "Lost and found"

Also, yes, as you can see I'm a townie.

Now with full freedom, I point at The Wizard Who Did It, and CmP.

However, I ask that people inspect The Wizard Who Did It and vote for CmP. (Any townie as active as he would, should have been targed by now.)

And this sucks even more because now the P.O can't reveal themselves because the lack of protection.

But still, I urge you to put there name in your post somewhere. Throw in others, but please narrow it down somewhat.

Vote: CmP

And also, let's see who else voted for Ogianres.

The Wandering God

EDIT: I meant to put the names of mafiates in your posts somewhere.

[CallmePrismatic]

(Any townie as active as he would, should have been targed by now.) I agree, which is why I think something fishy is going on...

Mesden, did you know that skelly was the Doc in addition to a Mason? If so, was it common knowledge among the three Masons?

I think that by now I or another confirmed townie should have at least been targetted, and from what I read of skelly's posting history in the thread he gave away no indication of being a threat to anybody...but if the other, unrevealed, Mason was a mafiate, he/she could have leaked the information to the mafia.

So, was skelly's role known to all of the Masons Mes?

[Mesden]

I agree, which is why I think something fishy is going on...

Mesden, did you know that skelly was the Doc in addition to a Mason? If so, was it common knowledge among the three Masons?

I think that by now I or another confirmed townie should have at least been targetted, and from what I read of skelly's posting history in the thread he gave away no indication of being a threat to anybody...but if the other, unrevealed, Mason was a mafiate, he/she could have leaked the information to the mafia.

So, was skelly's role known to all of the Masons Mes?


No, it wasn't. I learned about it LAST night. HE decided to tell me and we formulated something to do. But, I told the other mason some things were going on and I'd wait for the other mason's(Skel's) go ahead for him to find out.

It IS very possible the other mason is a mafiate and I addressed him on this. He said he wasn't and that's the only thing he could tell me. It's possible that he did leak information that Skel had something special, but trust me, it's a bit nonsensical from a certain standpoint. My lack of anything special at this point makes me fairly useless if he is mafia, though.

I'll give my fellow Mason the option to reveal himself before doing it himself. I'm not going to say it for this is only an off possibility as much as others. If it becomse necessary over the course of today, then I will reveal him. This does not mean it's guaranteed to happen, mind you, only if I see it useful to the town.

[Silly Kitty]

TWG, did I miss your reasoning for suspecting Twiddy? Could you point me to that post or something? Thanks.

Also, Vote: CMP.

Edit: I said I would vote for him earlier and the vote stays there unless more damning evidence comes on someone's head.

[DarthMauler64]

Sorry, I haven't been on lately because of summer and my picnic and stuff. I'll try posting as often as I can.

I'm really hesitant about voting CMP just because of his defense earlier and because he might be a very active townie. There is the possibility of the mafia considering that he was about to be lynched earlier. For now I'll just FOS: CMP.

Also, the mafia might have been waiting to hit a confirmed townie untill the Bodyguard was dead, because they might waste their kill on them.

I'll try to pay more attention to this thread and form better suspicions.

[Mesden]

You know what's funny? I think CmP is actually the Reporter. Stay with me here.

One, the reasoning behind him being agressive is he might have a role and it's irritating him that he's gonna die so soon with so rare and powerful a role.

Two, who was the first person shown on the newspaper AFTER the role was reassigned? Me. Who was revealed last night? TWG. I wholeheartedly believe this was an attempt to try to show a (possible) mafiate trying to get him killed. Same with me, as I was throwing accusations at him before my revealation.

Why would the reporter choose TWG instead of CmP, the person with even MORE attention on him and the big mystery of the day? Because he can't reveal himself and TWG is the next best thing(Since I was already reavealed).

And, honestly, I want to hear CmP's point against this, so I'll keep my vote on him to get an answer.

[CallmePrismatic]

I'm not the reporter. I...have/had a role though.

From what I understood of the personality description, I was a new apprentice to the area and could pick a role to 'learn'. The gist of it was that I needed 3 Nights to get my technique down and then I'd be the new [insert role]. I chose to apprentice the Doctor...and now that he's dead on Night 2, I guess I'm a regular townie (I checked my original PM and can't find a 'If the teacher dies too early'-clause, so I'm going with the standard "You're SOL"-practice).

Which is why I'd like to know why the Mafia went after skelly who didn't do anything out of the ordinary as opposed to me or Mes who were obvious targets. The situation Mes painted about the third, unknown, Mason makes me even more suspicous: Why would skelly only trust Mes with the information? What would make two members of a cabal not share everything with the third? What were the "other things he couldn't tell"?

[Mesden]

Which is why I'd like to know why the Mafia went after skelly who didn't do anything out of the ordinary as opposed to me or Mes who were obvious targets. The situation Mes painted about the third, unknown, Mason makes me even more suspicous: Why would skelly only trust Mes with the information? What would make two members of a cabal not share everything with the third? What were the "other things he couldn't tell"?

He's not as available as Skeleton. Which is possibly because he spends his time colaborating with Mafia.

[Silly Kitty]

I know how it is to have people not believe your role claim. I am going to take your word on it. Unvote: CMP.

Edit: On second thought I am going to have to FOS: CMP. Why didn't you reveal this role to us sooner when you were almost lynched?

[CallmePrismatic]

I know how it is to have people not believe your role claim. I am going to take your word on it. Unvote: CMP.

Edit: On second thought I am going to have to FOS: CMP. Why didn't you reveal this role to us sooner when you were almost lynched?
Because I was sure I could beat the vote count; First because it was only TWG and Mes, and then I saw Thundergod Cid's suspicions of Ogianres and ran with that. Mostly it was because I knew that I could probably beat a vote, but if I roleclaimed a helpful townie role I was an obvious mafia target.

[Mesden]

Because I was sure I could beat the vote count; First because it was only TWG and Mes, and then I saw Thundergod Cid's suspicions of Ogianres and ran with that. Mostly it was because I knew that I could probably beat a vote, but if I roleclaimed a helpful townie role I was an obvious mafia target.

Just to note a possibility, this could be a role/trait your lying about. And none of us can disprove or prove it since it turned into a worthless atribute on your part.

[The Wandering God]

TWG, did I miss your reasoning for suspecting Twiddy? Could you point me to that post or something? Thanks.
Twiddy has 3 posts in this thread.

Now, I'm going to go dig for them.

First. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401906&postcount=208)

In which Twiddy votes for Catlover (good thing, however, also the last vote when it was pretty much a given that Catlover would swing. Also, the 5th (me) and 6th (Ogianres) are now both townies. To me, having a mafiate sneak in a vote here only makes them look good if you realize it really doesn't affect anything.) and says a whole lot of hot air.

Second. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=402962&postcount=247)

In which Twiddy suggests that Mesden is a Mason.

Third. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=404722&postcount=343)

In which Twiddy votes for Ogianres (a townie I might add) (and FoS's) CmP.

Also, a very intersesting point to me, is that these posts all take place around the time that a lynching has taken place. (Comparitevly speaking.)

Now, I know Twiddy acknowledged he wasn't being very active, but with 2 of his 3 posts containing votes.

What do you guys make of this? (Specifically, Mesden.)

CmP, I'm more suspicious of you than ever. You have voted now for 3 people. Mesden (Joke or no joke, you must acknowledge that you DID vote for her), B_Real, and Ogianres.

Seriously, WTF? Not a good track record at all.

That's why my vote is staying where it is.

The Wandering God

EDIT: Aww crap, I just thought of something. Could the mafia have possibly laid it's hands on the gun? Would that even be fair? Newb?

[CallmePrismatic]

I'm not even going to touch on Mes's vote.

B_real and Oggy both acted scummy. IIRC, I made the first vote against both of them (although Mes made the first 'attack' as it were on B_real and I voted first), and then an avalanche of votes followed. I didn't join in the bandgwagon, I made an opening vote and people piled in of their own free will because they shared my opinions. Is it my fault I vote for townies who act scummy? Or am I to blame because I too easily get people on my side?

[The Wandering God]

How's about not voting for the one person who WAS mafia?

You thinking them acting scummy? Yeah, you're dangerous. And who was the last person I thought was dangerous really? (I voted for Ogrianes because I really thought the nosy trait helped them off the Serial Killer.)

Oh yeah, mafiate.

Just because you made your own "opinion" doesn't make it any less wrong.

The Wandering God

[h4x.m4g3]

Just to note a possibility, this could be a role/trait your lying about. And none of us can disprove or prove it since it turned into a worthless atribute on your part.
Yeah, but I get the feeling he's not. Wether or not he was shadowing (learning how to be) the Doc, we may never know, unless newb says he manages to learn it independently or something. But really why would he make up a useless trait, when he could have easily just ran with your suspicion of him being the reporter?

[CallmePrismatic]

How's about not voting for the one person who WAS mafia?

You thinking them acting scummy? Yeah, you're dangerous. And who was the last person I thought was dangerous really? (I voted for Ogrianes because I really thought the nosy trait helped them off the Serial Killer.)

Oh yeah, mafiate.

Just because you made your own "opinion" doesn't make it any less wrong.

The Wandering God
On catlover, I...wait a sec, deja vu...

Nope, I didn't vote for cat. I wouldn't have voted for jeremiahcron either. Humor may not completely transmutate across Internet forums, but knee-jerk stupidity is a universal commodity thats eternally traded. I've been in a lot of games, as has been said over and over, and people who vote randomly aren't that rare. It's the button mashing-equivalent for forum mafia, something that a newcomer can do easily even though he/she may not realize how much it annoys the more experienced. In my experience, 4 out of 5 times a person who vote-mashes is just a newbie townie who wants to contribute but doesn't realize how bad it makes him look. This happened to be the 1 in 5.

So you didn't think Ogianres was dangerous, and you voted for him anyways? Do you think that absolves you of your actions, that you didn't mean it. Or is it because you're a confirmed townie so you feel that you don't have to take responsibility for your actions?

You contributed to the death of a townie as much as I did. Both of us did it unintentionally.

Also, a lesson and corrolarry from NPF Mafia the first: Lynching a mafiate doesn't mean all voters were non-mafiates. Lynching a townie doesn't mean that voters were all non-townies.

[The Wandering God]

Yeah, but I get the feeling he's not. Wether or not he was shadowing (learning how to be) the Doc, we may never know, unless newb says he manages to learn it independently or something. But really why would he make up a useless trait, when he could have easily just ran with your suspicion of him being the reporter?
Because the REAL reporter would almost certainly target them. Same with the Vig. And since that leaves the PO as the last possible useful role, I'd be more than willing to say he isn't.

The Wandering God

EDIT: Because I just HAVE to fricking acknowledge what CmP just said.
On catlover, I...wait a sec, deja vu...


So you didn't think Ogianres was dangerous, and you voted for him anyways? Do you think that absolves you of your actions, that you didn't mean it. Or is it because you're a confirmed townie so you feel that you don't have to take responsibility for your actions?

You contributed to the death of a townie as much as I did. Both of us did it unintentionally.

Also, a lesson and corrolarry from NPF Mafia the first: Lynching a mafiate doesn't mean all voters were non-mafiates. Lynching a townie doesn't mean that voters were all non-townies.
*buzzer sound*
Sorry, incorrect. You see, I wasn't the first person to vote for him. Nor did I post a list of convincing reasons that led to the town killing him. I was the LAST person to vote actually, and if I hadn't, it wouldn't have made a difference. And I stated my reason for voting in my lynch vote. I didn't just say "Going along with CmP".

And as to the last point... I WAS THE FIRST TO POINT IT OUT! How dare you throw that back in my face.

Especially when I pointed out that Twiddy could be mafiate.

And no, I don't buy the Catlover explanation at all.

The Wandering God EDIT OVER

[CallmePrismatic]

You see, I wasn't the first person to vote for him. Nor did I post a list of convincing reasons that led to the town killing him.You're right, I posted a list of convincing reasons against Ogianres. No, wait, something in both of our sentences doesn't seem right...

Oh yeah, CONVINCING REASONS. I didn't wish this stuff out of thin air, he had done it, I brought it into the light, people agreed. His actions belied scum, and since I'm not a mind reader I could only base my opinion of him by what I saw him do.

[secretskull]

First of all I'd like to apologize for more or less starting the band wagoning of Ogianres (If anybody actually noticed it). Something that I find odd is that the votes for Ogianres piled up very quickly, before he (or I for that matter) had a chance to react. Normally the person being lynched has at least one chance to defend himself, Ogianres was denied that, I think we should at least look carefully at the people who voted for him:

CallMePrismatic
Thunder God Cid
B real Shadows
Silly Kitty
H4x.m4g3
The Wizard Who Did It
The Wandering God

Now for a few slight changes:

CallMePrismatic
Thunder God Cid
B real Shadows
Silly Kitty
H4x.m4g3
The Wizard Who Did It
The Wandering God

People who have been suspected in the past are orange, confirmed townies have been crossed out.

[Bailey]

the vig role could only be asked for by a civilian, somebody who did not already have a role.


had somebody with a role asked for it, and then won the roll, I would have asked them if they were willing to trade and then re-rolled.

this would have landed their old role in the lost and found.

Also, the Talkative Civilian MajorBlood has decided to drop.

Can you drop me from the game? I've lost my internet connection for a while, and besides that i have Provincial exams to study for. Also, when you post to say i'm gone could you say the reason? Thanks.

[Thundergod Cid]

CallMePrismatic
Thunder God Cid
B real Shadows
Silly Kitty
H4x.m4g3
The Wizard Who Did It
The Wandering God

People who have been suspected in the past are orange, confirmed townies have been crossed out.
B_real was confirmed as townie as well, when he was nightkilled.

[The Wizard Who Did It]

First. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401906&postcount=208)

In which Twiddy votes for Catlover (good thing, however, also the last vote when it was pretty much a given that Catlover would swing. Also, the 5th (me) and 6th (Ogianres) are now both townies. To me, having a mafiate sneak in a vote here only makes them look good if you realize it really doesn't affect anything.) and says a whole lot of hot air.
How very true. It is suspicious.

However, I made my vote as I saw fit. Funny enough I found that my main reason for voting him (he's a veteran, he shouldn't be making these mistakes) wasn't completely true. But it worked out in the end. … Should probably have done my research first…
Second. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=402962&postcount=247)

In which Twiddy suggests that Mesden is a Mason.
Just trying to help. And I knew that it wouldn't take that much effort to make that post. I'm very, very lazy.
Third. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=404722&postcount=343)

In which Twiddy votes for Ogianres (a townie I might add) (and FoS's) CmP.
A lot of people other than me did so.
Also, a very interesting point to me, is that these posts all take place around the time that a lynching has taken place. (Comparatively speaking.)
I'm a procrastinator. I wait for the last second to do something. The one time here when I have broken that rule, the second time, was because it took me only 30 seconds to make the post, as previously explained.
Now, I know Twiddy acknowledged he wasn't being very active, but with 2 of his 3 posts containing votes.
I may just be brain dead right now, but what does this prove?

And if any of this seems half assed, it's mainly because I want to hear your responses before I make any more arguments. I'm not going to start jumping out at shadows like Mesden did earlier, as that just caused a lot of controversy.

[h4x.m4g3]

First of all I'd like to apologize for more or less starting the band wagoning of Ogianres (If anybody actually noticed it). Something that I find odd is that the votes for Ogianres piled up very quickly, before he (or I for that matter) had a chance to react. Normally the person being lynched has at least one chance to defend himself, Ogianres was denied that, I think we should at least look carefully at the people who voted for him:
Actually i beleive someone stated earlier that Orgianres had been online (wether or not he checked the thread we do not know) after CMP's post putting suspicion on him, and said nothing in his defense.

[Mesden]

And if any of this seems half assed, it's mainly because I want to hear your responses before I make any more arguments. I'm not going to start jumping out at shadows like Mesden did earlier, as that just caused a lot of controversy.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.



What do you guys make of this? (Specifically, Mesden)

Eh. Track records aren’t everything. Remember if you will B_Real. His track record had to be the worst of all. He was a townie. (If you want clarification on this, I can try to give it to what I have in immediate knowledge.)

Anyhow, as far as Twid goes, I KNOW he’s a procrastinator. I KNOW he’s lazy. Also, I KNOW that this doesn’t mean BS. Catlover SAID he was just a stupid townie and Twid says he’s just been lazy and slacking on this game. I personally find his record negative and his procrastinating lifestyle a flimsy excuse.

Honestly, I’m worried about Lurkers right now more than anything. My eye be on them, CmP and Twid.

[CallmePrismatic]

Also, the Talkative Civilian MajorBlood has decided to drop.
Great, go ahead and shit on my Eeevil Mason theory.

What does that leave, 13 people? Who's currently lurking?

[Mesden]

1
2
3
4 The_Wandering_God-very active
5 DarthMauler64-lurker
6 Mesden-very active
7
8 h4x.m4g3-fairly active
9 Thundergod_Cid-Fairly active
10 POS_Industries-Little internet access
11
12 CallmePrismatic-Very active
13 FenrisWolf-away
14
15 CrazyBen-lurker
16
17
18
19
20 Silly Kitty-Fairly active
21 The Wizard Who Did It-Recently fairly active
22
23 secretskull-Fairly active
24
25 Big Mac-luker

[Silly Kitty]

If I remember right I believe POS asked us to lynch him. If nothing else maybe we should lynch lurkers.

Edit: Post count!

1
2
3
4 The_Wandering_God - 29
5 DarthMauler64 - 16
6 Mesden - 55
7
8 h4x.m4g3 - 7
9 Thundergod_Cid - 16
10 POS_Industries - 1
11
12 CallmePrismatic - 37
13 FenrisWolf - 14
14
15 CrazyBen - 5
16
17
18
19
20 Silly Kitty - 41
21 The Wizard Who Did It - 4
22
23 secretskull - 10
24
25 Big Mac - 0

Vote: Big Mac

[CallmePrismatic]

I'm torn between CrazyBen (only 5 posts, voted No Lynch and B_real) and Big Mac (no posts at all).

Vote: Big Mac

Crazy at least came on to explain why he wasn't an active high participator, Big Mac didn't even give us the satisfaction of his presence. Still, FOS: CrazyBen, for when he comes around again.

[Mesden]

Alright, out of our 13 players, more than HALF have a guaranteed role.

4 mafiates
1 PO
1 Vig
1 Reporter

Also, it seems the perspective of my power is a failure now as both other "Talkative" players are gone. The town has had many dropouts so far, all townies aside from the Reporter who has been reassigned.

There are two confirmed townies, I and TWG. I expect to be killed tonight and TWG the next, as CmP stated the danger known townies pose to mafia.

12 people, 7 roles. 5 are non town alligned while 4 are mafia. At this point, it's nearly impossible for the reporter to win.

Once I and TWG are killed, I PLEAD for the PO to reveal all Mafiates he knows for the possibility of his/her death by Mafia and Vig. It might be good for you to proclaim it now if you know one, as for the chance of the Vig hitting you OR the Mafia not killing I and TWG in hopes of hitting you(PO) or the Vig.

CmP, your Roleclaim is an annoying proposition to me. Call me stubborn in my belief, but your role has no way to prove itself to me. My only REAL belief is that the Mafia didn't kill you to keep TWG and I on your case. Then again, if you are mafia, that's a reason to stay alive by night as well.

It's really tearing through my logic process, but for now, and only now, I'll Unvote: CmP and Vote: Big Mac for his no posts.

[Thundergod Cid]

Day 3 and we have someone who hasn't made a single post?

Vote: Big Mac

[The Wizard Who Did It]

I must actually say that I am against voting Big Mac. For one simple reason...

He's completely inactive. I say it would be a better to call upon the divine light that has been called for the sake of our somplistic minds "Newb" to just kick him out. It's LIKE lynching him except we get a two for one kill card.

[The Wandering God]

Lots of stuff to go over.
You're right, I posted a list of convincing reasons against Ogianres. No, wait, something in both of our sentences doesn't seem right...

Oh yeah, CONVINCING REASONS. I didn't wish this stuff out of thin air, he had done it, I brought it into the light, people agreed. His actions belied scum, and since I'm not a mind reader I could only base my opinion of him by what I saw him do.
And again, you totally managed to avoid most of what I say. First off, I accused you of faulty reasoning. Just because others agree with you, doesn't make it any less faulty. Yes I did vote for him. But all that means is you are good at making a convincing argument. To quote something you said, "Because I was sure I could beat the vote count." So if all you are good at is arguing your way out of trouble, I don't see how that helps the town. Especially when your arguments have almost killed one townie (B_real) and HAVE killed another (Ogianres).

Believe me, I know the power of a huge post to intimidate some who might not be willing to look all the way through it for a vote. Not often, and not very effective, but certainly a tactic if you want to get more votes. (Even townies do this I acknowledge. But then it only helps if it results in a mafiate getting lynched...)

How very true. It is suspicious.

However, I made my vote as I saw fit. Funny enough I found that my main reason for voting him (he's a veteran, he shouldn't be making these mistakes) wasn't completely true. But it worked out in the end. … Should probably have done my research first…
Well, worked out in the sense that your vote was totally superfluous, then yeah, you'd be right.

Just trying to help. And I knew that it wouldn't take that much effort to make that post. I'm very, very lazy.
Actually I just put it there for completeness sake to to show how little you had posted.

A lot of people other than me did so.
True, including me. However, you DID vote for him. Just because other people did it, doesn't make it any less a stain on your record.

Of course, you also threw out a FoS to CmP. But since most everyone has done so at that point, it was again a case of you simply going with the flow without actually saying anything new.

I'm a procrastinator. I wait for the last second to do something. The one time here when I have broken that rule, the second time, was because it took me only 30 seconds to make the post, as previously explained.
You should know that isn't in the best interests of the town. Being a vet, you should know what will be expected.

Should... yet apparently didn't. Either willfully or not, it's still not any less dangerous.

I may just be brain dead right now, but what does this prove?
What I meant with the 2 out of 3 is that most townies are pretty conservative with their votes. Let me put it another way. Let's say a random unknown town member had 30 posts in a thread. (Compare to Mesden's 56 and my 29.) That'd be 20 VOTES. It's a matter of percentages is what I'm trying to get across.

And if any of this seems half assed, it's mainly because I want to hear your responses before I make any more arguments. I'm not going to start jumping out at shadows like Mesden did earlier, as that just caused a lot of controversy.
Or you couldn't yet define how you would defend yourself...

*shrugs*

just saying.


Eh. Track records aren’t everything. Remember if you will B_Real. His track record had to be the worst of all. He was a townie. (If you want clarification on this, I can try to give it to what I have in immediate knowledge.)

Honestly, I’m worried about Lurkers right now more than anything. My eye be on them, CmP and Twid.
Yeah, but I never got the feeling B_real was mafia. I know we are supposed to use logic and thought out conclusions, but you do need some sense of how things read. I thought he was simply the result of a plot started by CmP. Oh, and guess what, B_real was a townie. Go fig.

And I said in a previous game, I hate inactives. However, now we are in trouble. We've had so many people drop out ( :stressed: ) that we can't just start lynching them too. Let Newb deal with them.

I must actually say that I am against voting Big Mac. For one simple reason...

He's completely inactive. I say it would be a better to call upon the divine light that has been called for the sake of our somplistic minds "Newb" to just kick him out. It's LIKE lynching him except we get a two for one kill card.
While I'm still as suspicious of you as ever (maybe you could be a townie who is frustrated, or a mafia member who simply wants a fair game, maybe maybe, nothing known for sure) I do agree with you here.

We don't need to be wasting the town's resources (lynching and body count) without some sort of evidence.

Like the big pile that I keep seeing every time I look at CmP.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

Like the big pile that I keep seeing every time I look at CmP.

The Wandering God


Well, as of now, the only reasoning people have in FAVOR of CmP lately is his Roleclaim. I'm not saying he's faulty, but jeez, the man has a role that is WORTHLESS as soon as suspicion draws to him. He can't prove it and therefore it's not worth agreeing with.

"I have a role. It's sad enough that it became useless RIGHT before it activated and RIGHT when a town alligned roleclaim is the best for me. Go figure, huh?"

Sorry, not feeling it.

Edit: Sorry, not in the most remembering of moods. Unvote: Big Mac for now. I'll have to give you some thoughts later as I'm not up to it right now.

[h4x.m4g3]

I must actually say that I am against voting Big Mac. For one simple reason...

He's completely inactive. I say it would be a better to call upon the divine light that has been called for the sake of our somplistic minds "Newb" to just kick him out. It's LIKE lynching him except we get a two for one kill card.
I'm gonna FOS: The Wizard Who Did It because the way you stated that is a little funny, 'two for one kill card' which would benefit the mafia, considering the mafia wins by lowering our numbers.

[CrazyBen]

The reason I haven't been posting that much is because, as I said, everything has already been said. Plus, this has mostly become Mesden and TWG vs. CMP, where you all just keep going around and around on the same few points, while the rest of us stand to the side, muttering and nodding, before you guys kick out someone else for us to hang at the last minute. I was starting to think Mes and CMP where a pair of Mafiates trying to keep us busy watching them fight like rabid squirrels, but now that Mesden is confirmed as a townie, I'm starting to think that CMP is a Mafioso that got lucky. So, until further notice...

Vote: CallmePrismatic

And if I'm wrong, we can at least get some peace and quiet. Until we're all shot.

[The Wizard Who Did It]

Well, worked out in the sense that your vote was totally superfluous, then yeah, you'd be right.
Worked out as in we got a mafia, and I didn't vote a townie which could look even more suspicious on my record.

Also, let's go back a little. If my memory serves me, it was a toss-up between Catlover and B Real. One we now know is a townie, and the other we now know is a mafia. They were both very close in votes. Now, I know my vote WAS surplus, but it was as necessary as any other persons. I can point out anybody but the person who initially voted for Catlover and say that person's vote wasn't necessary, which it wasn't. So, superfluous... maybe, but just as much as most peoples.

Yes, I am purposefully leaving out the fact that I voted near the end of the killing Catlover train. However, I’m not in the mood to try to provide an argument as for why it doesn’t always matter (time issues, access to computer, etc.), mainly because the above doesn’t apply to me. I’m just lazy, and although that is/was dangerous to the town on its own, it’s also all the explanation I need to give. Simply because it’s the truth.

EDIT: Looked back. My vote was surplus by two. Whatever. It still could have hypothetically helped, like any surplus vote is supposed to do.

Actually I just put it there for completeness sake to to show how little you had posted.
I know. I just had to mention it so there wasn’t an inconsistency in my procrastination point.

True, including me. However, you DID vote for him. Just because other people did it, doesn't make it any less a stain on your record.
How true. But if you realize that, don't make it sound when you accuse me that I alone voted for him. Or that it really means anything. As previously stated multiple times, not all non voters against a townie are townie, and not all voters are mafia. I could, logically, easily fall into either category.

And no, I am not denying the fact that I could be a mafia. I know the truth, but since no one else does, that doesn’t seem to matter.

Of course, you also threw out a FoS to CmP. But since most everyone has done so at that point, it was again a case of you simply going with the flow without actually saying anything new.
There was another reason why I barely posted in the first place... I think I mentioned it in the first post... Oh yeah! It was because I had nothing to say.

I would also like to mention that I have also had school on the back of my mind, so I haven’t really thought about this game too much. (the reason why I have nothing to say) Is that a crime? Only in the fact that then I am/was useless, but now that school’s out it seems that I might be posting in here more than once a game day.

You should know that isn't in the best interests of the town. Being a vet, you should know what will be expected.
I know it's not good for the town. And I knew I was eventually going to get eaten out for this. I go back to the school point, and leave it at that.

Should... yet apparently didn't. Either willfully or not, it's still not any less dangerous.
Apparently, but it didn't end up being the case. And... how is it dangerous? I'm curious to hear your view on this.

What I meant with the 2 out of 3 is that most townies are pretty conservative with their votes. Let me put it another way. Let's say a random unknown town member had 30 posts in a thread. (Compare to Mesden's 56 and my 29.) That'd be 20 VOTES. It's a matter of percentages is what I'm trying to get across.
Ah, but percentages don't really mean anything here. I decisively made two votes. Whereas the percentages show that I could be throwing them out willy-nilly, like your hypothetical here, if you actually look at how many votes I made it shows that I made sure that I knew who I wanted to vote for that night before I voted for them.

Or you couldn't yet define how you would defend yourself...

*shrugs*

just saying.
The possiblity is there, and you should be wary of it. However, the truth was I didn't want to defend myself against points that hadn't been made yet. The whole “assume makes an ass out of you and me” thing.

I'm gonna FOS: The Wizard Who Did It because the way you stated that is a little funny, 'two for one kill card' which would benefit the mafia, considering the mafia wins by lowering our numbers.
This is going to sound incredibly stupid, but I was waiting for someone to make that point. And now I will expand on what I meant...

We're voting for this guy. That means that at this rate he is going to die anyway. Now, the problem is that then we have another night at the mercy of the mafia. I mean, it's a possibility that tonight we could get lucky and the vig gets a mafia while the mafia only gets a townie. (or the weird doctor thing of CMP's that I sped-read through takes effect and he blocks the mafia.) So, by using our vote on this guy, we use up the main weapon the town has: the lynching. However, if we get him kicked out, he's still gone and not bothering us with his lurkerness anymore, but we also still have our main weapon available to us this game day.

[Mesden]

Still finishing this game out, people. So you know.

Adressing Twid. Seriously, saying "I'm lazy." to EVERYTHING is not a defense and never will be one.

[The Wandering God]

Worked out as in we got a mafia, and I didn't vote a townie which could look even more suspicious on my record.
First off, don't think I didn't notice that subtle way of associating yourself with the rest of us. Insinuating talk is really only something someone scummy would use. Mesden never had to do that.

Also, let's go back a little. If my memory serves me, it was a toss-up between Catlover and B Real. One we now know is a townie, and the other we now know is a mafia. They were both very close in votes. Now, I know my vote WAS surplus, but it was as necessary as any other persons. I can point out anybody but the person who initially voted for Catlover and say that person's vote wasn't necessary, which it wasn't. So, superfluous... maybe, but just as much as most peoples.
Actually I'd say all the votes up to and including the tiebreaker were much more important than the last 2. (Ogianres, and you last.)

Indeed, someone could have changed their mind, but we can't deal with "ifs". The fact of the matter was, even if one had, your vote still would have been excess. Time was drawing to a close, and you jumped ship as it was about to leave harbor.

Yes, I am purposefully leaving out the fact that I voted near the end of the killing Catlover train. However, I’m not in the mood to try to provide an argument as for why it doesn’t always matter (time issues, access to computer, etc.), mainly because the above doesn’t apply to me. I’m just lazy, and although that is/was dangerous to the town on its own, it’s also all the explanation I need to give. Simply because it’s the truth.
Not near the end. AT the end. And Catlover had been under suspicion about halfway into the day. Wheras you had no trouble at all catching the last minute hanging of Ogianres.

While you can't always decide when you vote, it's not something we can throw away. It really does reflect on who voted. For most extreme example, look at who is the first person to vote. They are under even more scrutiny. And rightfully so. So if you'll agree that all votes are important not only for who they are, but when they are voted for. Hell, even unvoting should be taken into account. (Mafiates voting fellow mafiates, then unvoting to try and stop bandwagoning for instance.)

EDIT: Looked back. My vote was surplus by two. Whatever. It still could have hypothetically helped, like any surplus vote is supposed to do.
There's that word again. Hypothetically. Wow, you and CmP really seem to want to deal in the "what if's" department. And I think you know how I feel about him in this game. (CmP the forumite=cool (introduced me to Qwantz), but CmP in-game=*blood vessals pop*)
Yeah, that last part was humor.

I know. I just had to mention it so there wasn’t an inconsistency in my procrastination point.
At first, I was just going to skip over this part, but the way you worded it as a reflection of your play style drew red flags upon further thought.

"(in)consistency". That word. As opposed to logic. Hmmm, ya know, I think a mafiate might be more concerned with consistency as a defense instead of logic. (Ex: Catlover trying to say his random voting was par for the course. (Or having others suggest it for him...)) And that he was consistently stupid (no mean to insult, but that's practically what he said.)).

How true. But if you realize that, don't make it sound when you accuse me that I alone voted for him. Or that it really means anything. As previously stated multiple times, not all non voters against a townie are townie, and not all voters are mafia. I could, logically, easily fall into either category.
Votes DO mean something. As I said, numerous times, they are the one thing which you can't argue with. They are fact. You can talk about intentions and what ifs all you want, but that won't change who you voted for and when.

And that the only thing you did to help the town was vote for the mafiate? Which didn't even help as much as you'd like others to think as I've already stated.

And no, I am not denying the fact that I could be a mafia. [b]I know the truth, but since no one else does, that doesn’t seem to matter.[b]

Okay that, that right there. That pisses me off. With so much fury. That is the highest degree of scumminess I can think of. "I'm innocent because I say I am." Yeah. That's it. After CmP goes down, I'm coming after you.

There was another reason why I barely posted in the first place... I think I mentioned it in the first post... Oh yeah! It was because I had nothing to say.
Then FIND something to say. Look at posts. Analyze things. Be helpful. DO SOMETHING!

Like I said, inactives are bad. And if the only thing you can do is point fingers that A) Don't help and B) Lynch townies, then you are even worse, because you are an active danger. And it seems all our mafiates are considered to be active so far.

I would also like to mention that I have also had school on the back of my mind, so I haven’t really thought about this game too much. (the reason why I have nothing to say) Is that a crime? Only in the fact that then I am/was useless, but now that school’s out it seems that I might be posting in here more than once a game day.
Then I highly suggest you do everything in your power to help the town, because otherwise, you'll be getting my vote after CmP goes down.

I know it's not good for the town. And I knew I was eventually going to get eaten out for this. I go back to the school point, and leave it at that.
We all have lives. But only posting 3 times over the course of a couple of weeks is still pretty inexcusable.

Apparently, but it didn't end up being the case. And... how is it dangerous? I'm curious to hear your view on this.
How did it not end up being the case? And it's dangerous because if you don't know what the towns best interests are, and aren't working towards them, that only helps the mafia. Willfully or not.

Ah, but percentages don't really mean anything here. I decisively made two votes. Whereas the percentages show that I could be throwing them out willy-nilly, like your hypothetical here, if you actually look at how many votes I made it shows that I made sure that I knew who I wanted to vote for that night before I voted for them.
First off, why shouldn't percentages mean anything? I should think that someone who posts a lot but never votes would eventually draw attention to themselves. Someone who rarely posts, but always votes should logically draw the same attention.

Just because you are sure of who you vote for, doesn't make it any less innocent. It's in being able to apply logic it to it that shows it's veracity.

The possiblity is there, and you should be wary of it. However, the truth was I didn't want to defend myself against points that hadn't been made yet. The whole “assume makes an ass out of you and me” thing.
However, when most of your points revolves around, "I'm lazy" and "school", I really don't see any need to wait for my points. And when the rest can be shot so full of holes they don't hold watever, I can see why you'd want to wait.

This is going to sound incredibly stupid, but I was waiting for someone to make that point. And now I will expand on what I meant...

We're voting for this guy. That means that at this rate he is going to die anyway. Now, the problem is that then we have another night at the mercy of the mafia. I mean, it's a possibility that tonight we could get lucky and the vig gets a mafia while the mafia only gets a townie. (or the weird doctor thing of CMP's that I sped-read through takes effect and he blocks the mafia.) So, by using our vote on this guy, we use up the main weapon the town has: the lynching. However, if we get him kicked out, he's still gone and not bothering us with his lurkerness anymore, but we also still have our main weapon available to us this game day.
And you basically just resaid what I said, even though you said it first. Changing it from "2 for one" to my comparisons about the town's resources. Wow.

Moving on (and backwards), why the hell would anyone want to vote for another person CmP got a vote started for? Does ANYONE trust his track record?

The Wandering God

[Silly Kitty]

TWG, it isn't voting for someone CMP said. It is getting rid of the inactive players so we can actually play the game right.

[The Wandering God]

TWG, it isn't voting for someone CMP said. It is getting rid of the inactive players so we can actually play the game right.
But we shouldn't have to lynch inactive players. Newb should take care of that.

And something else I forgot to add to my post before this about Twiddy,
(or the weird doctor thing of CMP's that I sped-read through takes effect and he blocks the mafia.)
Yeah, I'm totally going to call bullshit on you for that.

First off, we have no proof that it's true for one, and CmP himself said it probably wasn't going to take effect.

But it's real purpose I guess would be a subtle way of saying CmP is innocent.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

Sorry about the lack of quotes, but I'm a bit out of it Mafia wise.

TWG, two things. One, you're being a little over agressive. It may be this new found freedom of townieness, but it's a little drastic. I'll ask you to tone downa wee bit.

Two, as far as the percentage thing goes, that's about as pointless as it gets in this game. You can't judge him on how many decisive votes(Not random, mind you) he's had.

What I'm worried about IS the decisive posts. How it was so easy for him to just up and vote for those people without a second thought.

There's a chance he knew their allignement. And honestly, just taking the votes(Not the timing) makes you look good. Watch.

"Vote for a mafiate."

"Vote for a townie."

It LOOKS like an honest record. It's also a something I was going to use next time I would have been a mafiate. (I'm being honest here. Faking an innocent record was my next plan.)

And his only excuse at the beginning was laziness. Now he's bringing up other points that he could've made before. It's a bit desperate.

As of now, if you weren't a townie, he'd be playing the passive person in the argument. And we all know how much more subtle influence that side takes. Subtle influence being what a mafiate wants, where as a townie wants a more direct appeal.

Here's my Mafiate know how for the last time guys. He's really thinking like me and using it. Dwell on that while I Vote: The Wizard Who Did It.

Edit: I had a dyslexic moment!

[h4x.m4g3]

Twiddy, I knew what you meant, however I just didn't like the way you said it, which is why you still get my FoS. The 'Two for one' sounds like you're a little too gleeful about increasing the rate in which our numbers decrease. The only way the town would waste its weapon, is if the majority voted to lynch the inactives.

In fact this whole 'lynch the inactives thing' seems like it could be a mafia trick to make us waste a lynch, when time is becoming critical. So I look back to see how this plot came to be, and find out it developped by: Silly Kitty proposing, and listing a post count, CmP making the first vote against Big Mac, and then Thundergod_Cid supporting it (making the second vote.) That's where the vote trail ends.

Also I'm against lynching the lurks, because Newb hasn't been making any comments, remarks, about night roles not getting sent in. Which means either A, they send in their roles and never post or B, they don't have a role, or at least not a role that requires them to contact the GM (only the mafia don has to PM the GM, the others just debate.)

And now I would like to retract a previously stupidly made statement I made, about beleiving CmP's trait. Apparently my brain was dead then, since I didn't think the man who brought Mafia to the NPF, wouldn't know plenty of trait/jobs from other games. And also I forgot that traits are independent of jobs (could the mafia get their own doc, in through this trait protect from the vig?.)

Now for my vote, I find the time is right to Vote: CmP. He managed to deceive me into voting for Orginaries, but I will not be conned into voting for an inactive.

I would just like to warn everyone, my internet access is flicking in and out, I'm still playing, but my post may be sporadic (so far it seems to work best in the night.

[Silly Kitty]

The "lynching the inactive" thing would actually hurt the mafia if you think about it. Wanna know how? I shall tell you! Newb kicks POS and Bigmac for their in activeness. That leaves us with 11 players. If the town lynches a townie that leaves us with 10. If the vig didn't hit mafia tonight that would leave us with 8 players. The mafia would win because half the town is mafia. *shrug* I was just thinking lynching the inactive would be a safer bet but if Newb kicks them out then we just need to hope we lynch a mafiate today or the vig hits mafia tonight.

[The Wandering God]

The "lynching the inactive" thing would actually hurt the mafia if you think about it. Wanna know how? I shall tell you! Newb kicks POS and Bigmac for their in activeness. That leaves us with 11 players. If the town lynches a townie that leaves us with 10. If the vig didn't hit mafia tonight that would leave us with 8 players. The mafia would win because half the town is mafia. *shrug* I was just thinking lynching the inactive would be a safer bet but if Newb kicks them out then we just need to hope we lynch a mafiate today or the vig hits mafia tonight.
That's surmising that POS and Bigmac are actually townies. And if they are, then we shouldn't be lynching them.

And if they aren't, then they should be kicked anyway. Just because you have a role, doesn't offer any special sort of protection. The only role we don't know is active is the PO. And if either of them is the PO, then we might as well give up now, as this game really is just a crapshoot. (How many people have dropped out/quit anyway? Talk about unfair advantage to the mafia.)

The Wandering God

[Silly Kitty]

You aren't even listening to what I'm saying. I was saying that lynching them would give the town more time to find mafia. If we don't hit mafia, if Big Mac or POS aren't mafia, and if the vig doesn't hit mafia. The game is over. Mafia wins. That is why I wanted to lynch instead of kick. I'm sorry I wanted to make the game last longer.

[The Wandering God]

You aren't even listening to what I'm saying. I was saying that lynching them would give the town more time to find mafia. If we don't hit mafia, if Big Mac or POS aren't mafia, and if the vig doesn't hit mafia. The game is over. Mafia wins. That is why I wanted to lynch instead of kick. I'm sorry I wanted to make the game last longer.
I am listening to what you are saying.

But that's 3 ifs.

I suggest we vote for CmP, have the Vig hit Twiddy, and let Newb explain POS and Big Mac.

Or maybe the vig could just sit out tonight if you are that worried. They don't HAVE to make a hit.

But again, we shouldn't have to waste a lynch on inactives. If they are mafia, they should get kicked. And if they aren't, they haven't been helping anyway and we shouldn't waste a lynch on them.

The Wandering God

[Silly Kitty]

Hm, I did forget the vig didn't have to make a hit. In that case I will Unvote: Big Mac. I just wanted to make sure the town didn't lose it in one night.

Newb, can we get a vote count?

Edit: Also, TWG, who are you to tell the vig what to do? You are a known townie but the vig may have someone else s/he wants to hit.

[Mesden]

I am listening to what you are saying.

But that's 3 ifs.

I suggest we vote for CmP, have the Vig hit Twiddy, and let Newb explain POS and Big Mac.

Or maybe the vig could just sit out tonight if you are that worried. They don't HAVE to make a hit.

But again, we shouldn't have to waste a lynch on inactives. If they are mafia, they should get kicked. And if they aren't, they haven't been helping anyway and we shouldn't waste a lynch on them.

The Wandering God

TWG, you can't wholeheartedly believe the Vig will just follow your and my thoughts and accusations.

I, like you, believe CmP is mafia. His Role seems more of a shoddy excuse(Like I said) and the entire rest of this thread goes to show it.

I believe that Twiddy is mafia. He's BEING a mafiate. Nothing he's done is an excuse. I gave my reasons why in my post.

But the vig may not think the same way. For all we know, the vig could be taking the IHMN route with random kills. But what of the chance that we're wrong?

Surely the Vig will think this(If s/he's an actual active player) through and may disagree.

My vote stays with Twiddy, as CmP has at least the SLIGHTEST of a real excuse where as Twid just seems unprepared and caught off guard.

[The Wandering God]

Edit: Also, TWG, who are you to tell the vig what to do? You are a known townie but the vig may have someone else s/he wants to hit.
You mean like, say, B_real? Who was a townie? Who I thought was a townie?

Ah yes, the vig should make their own decisions. After all, we'd hate for them to be following any sort of consensus. (Who do you think should be hit SK?)

I mean, it's not like another townie agrees with me or anything... Hold on, what's that down there?

TWG, you can't wholeheartedly believe the Vig will just follow your and my thoughts and accusations.

I, like you, believe CmP is mafia. His Role seems more of a shoddy excuse(Like I said) and the entire rest of this thread goes to show it.

I believe that Twiddy is mafia. He's BEING a mafiate. Nothing he's done is an excuse. I gave my reasons why in my post.

But the vig may not think the same way. For all we know, the vig could be taking the IHMN route with random kills. But what of the chance that we're wrong?

Surely the Vig will think this(If s/he's an actual active player) through and may disagree.

My vote stays with Twiddy, as CmP has at least the SLIGHTEST of a real excuse where as Twid just seems unprepared and caught off guard.
No, I don't know what the vig will do. But that doesn't mean I can't make suggestions. Or point to the arguments that I've made that have managed to convince another townie (you) that they are guilty.

Let's take a look at my track record:
Catlover: thought he was guilty
Mesden: after back and forth, I thought you were innocent (before you were revealed)
B_real: Thought he was a townie
Ogianres: Mistake here, I thought he could be mafia

That's 3 out of 4 correct. As compared to say... CmP, who is 0 for 4 for those very same people.

That's why I feel that I can make suggestions. And as to the current two major suspects, you (another townie) agree with me. Why shouldn't the vig be willing to believe not one, but two people who are innocent?

And yes, we could be wrong. Of course, anyone could be wrong. But if we are too paralyzed to do anything, the mafia has already won.

But think about it this way... Maybe we're right. If CmP and Twiddy are both mafiates, that leaves just 2 to find, with a little bit more breathing room to do so.

So, we can play it safe, or not. But I guess it really is up to the vig.

I wish there was a vote count so I could see where things stack up.

The Wandering God

[CallmePrismatic]

Yeah, some clarification by Newb on how inactive-dropkicking works would be appreciated at this juncture.

However, I think there's a pretty good chance that the inactives are mafia, although it involves me speculating on how Newb is thinking.

What is one of the reasons you wouldn't kick out an inactive player? Because they have a role. BUT, plenty of people with roles have dropped out and they have merely been reassigned. Of course, that might be due to the fact that the people involved requested a drop out, while we're stuck assuming the inactives are not communicating both in-game nor with Newb.

Anyways, assuming Newb hasn't kicked them out due to the fact that they have roles, we have to look at what roles there are. We can assume that the Vig is someone who's at least semi-active because they could only have gotten the role by paying attention the thread and contacting Newb. The Doc is dead, and likewise the SK. That leaves the PO and Reporter, and mafia roles. I'm going to assume the Reporter is someone who pays attention to the thread because he/she has investigated Mes and TWG, two-thirds of the most active player trinity.

That leaves the PO and mafia roles. Since Newb hasn't said anything further about people not PMing roles, we have to assume that the PO has been active, at least at Night, and to make any decisions they would have had to read the thread for a vague sense of who to investigate, and thus would see all of the doubt over inactive players and chime in. A vast majority of the mafia, however, have no compulsion to post in the game thread or PM Newb, and benefit when no undue attention is paid to them.

Of course, all of this depends entirely on the assumption that the only reason inactive players haven't been kicked off is because they have a role. That's why, until Newb ever lets us in on his plan, I'm going to keep my vote on Mac.

On the topic of my 'fake' role claim...look around. This is the first game using non-traditional roles (No offense Mes, but your Chi was essentially a versatile SK). Somebody is the Reporter, Ogian was a Role Watcher, TWG has some sort of Doc-calling capability...just because you've never heard of the role before doesn't mean I had to have made it up.

On the other hand, if you think I made it up because it couldn't be verified, that's false. Let the PO or Reporter waste a Night investigating me. Although, to indulge in some Mesden-esque "If I were a mafiate" pondering, a mafiate who wants to fake-claim would probably say they were the PO. At that point the real PO would be forced to step up, and even if the mafiate died he would have succeeded in getting the PO to show himself.

I also want to touch on something SK inadvertently spoke of: The Vig. At this point, each miss that hits a townie is practically handing the game to the mafia. Unless a PO comes forth and says with undeniable proof that so-and-so is a mafiate, sending a silver bullet off of a hunch is detrimental to the town.

[Mesden]

You mean like, say, B_real? Who was a townie? Who I thought was a townie?

Ah yes, the vig should make their own decisions. After all, we'd hate for them to be following any sort of consensus. (Who do you think should be hit SK?)

I mean, it's not like another townie agrees with me or anything... Hold on, what's that down there?


No, I don't know what the vig will do. But that doesn't mean I can't make suggestions. Or point to the arguments that I've made that have managed to convince another townie (you) that they are guilty.

Let's take a look at my track record:
Catlover: thought he was guilty
Mesden: after back and forth, I thought you were innocent (before you were revealed)
B_real: Thought he was a townie
Ogianres: Mistake here, I thought he could be mafia

That's 3 out of 4 correct. As compared to say... CmP, who is 0 for 4 for those very same people.

That's why I feel that I can make suggestions. And as to the current two major suspects, you (another townie) agree with me. Why shouldn't the vig be willing to believe not one, but two people who are innocent?

And yes, we could be wrong. Of course, anyone could be wrong. But if we are too paralyzed to do anything, the mafia has already won.

But think about it this way... Maybe we're right. If CmP and Twiddy are both mafiates, that leaves just 2 to find, with a little bit more breathing room to do so.

So, we can play it safe, or not. But I guess it really is up to the vig.

I wish there was a vote count so I could see where things stack up.

The Wandering God

I'm almost OFFENDED by this, TWG. Let me show you one part.

Or point to the arguments that I've made that have managed to convince another townie (you) that they are guilty.

No, you have NOT convinced me of ONE thing. I've ONLY followed my own chord, gave my own reasons. Not follow yours. I don't follow ANYONE. I was the person who brought suspicion on CmP in the first place(I'll go dig the POST out where I was the first to say it and the others where I formed my OWN opinions.).

Twiddy, yes, you did bring the light on him. But didn't I ARGUE against some of your points and then MADE my ENTIRE own reason for voting? One that had little to do with what you said?

Yeah, no one has convinced me of anything. I've convinced myself.

I may "Agree" with you, but not because of anything you've said. Don't make it look like we're tag team buddies here. You went to CmP after I proved myself good in your eyes and him bad. I went for Twiddy with my OWN reasons. Got that?

As far as the vig, you said yourself, known townies AREN'T infalliable. You know what a VIGILANTE is? It's someone who works by themselves to bring justice by their own opinion. This is why in game 2 I didn't vote for IHMN, because he was being a vig in his own way.

It IS the Vig's choice. YOU are not always right, no matter the track record. The vig may not want to state who he thinks is guilty because, hey, when he KILLS them at night, the mafia will look at HIM.

Think about that, please. Also, don't assume anything about me. My "Agreement" is merely mutual concern for different reasons. I'll NEVER be the person who says, "Vote: Someone because of those things other people stated."

[POS Industries]

I cast my vote for POS Industries. That fucker's up to something, I just know it.

[The Wandering God]

I'm almost OFFENDED by this, TWG. Let me show you one part.

No, you have NOT convinced me of ONE thing. I've ONLY followed my own chord, gave my own reasons. Not follow yours. I don't follow ANYONE. I was the person who brought suspicion on CmP in the first place(I'll go dig the POST out where I was the first to say it and the others where I formed my OWN opinions.).

Twiddy, yes, you did bring the light on him. But didn't I ARGUE against some of your points and then MADE my ENTIRE own reason for voting? One that had little to do with what you said?

Yeah, no one has convinced me of anything. I've convinced myself.

I may "Agree" with you, but not because of anything you've said. Don't make it look like we're tag team buddies here. You went to CmP after I proved myself good in your eyes and him bad. I went for Twiddy with my OWN reasons. Got that?

As far as the vig, you said yourself, known townies AREN'T infalliable. You know what a VIGILANTE is? It's someone who works by themselves to bring justice by their own opinion. This is why in game 2 I didn't vote for IHMN, because he was being a vig in his own way.

It IS the Vig's choice. YOU are not always right, no matter the track record. The vig may not want to state who he thinks is guilty because, hey, when he KILLS them at night, the mafia will look at HIM.

Think about that, please. Also, don't assume anything about me. My "Agreement" is merely mutual concern for different reasons. I'll NEVER be the person who says, "Vote: Someone because of those things other people stated."
Well, I assure you, I didn't intend to offend you. But I do wish you wouldn't be quite so caustic. I didn't realize I was quite such bad company. I'll be sure to remember that.

But actually, your points only emphasize what I was trying to say.

2 independant lines of thought arrived at the same conclusion. Doesn't that mean something to you?

And the Vig is a TOWNIE first and foremost. They are NOT the serial killer. If they aren't going after who the town (Who basically consists of you and me being confirmed innocent) thinks is guilty, they are dangerous. Just because you didn't vote for IHMN, didn't make him any less so. And since we only have one death to judge our new Vig by (a townie) I don't entirely trust their line of thinking. Can you blame me?

And if I'm so incredibly stupid, please ignore my posts for the insane ramblings you take them to be from now on, as they apparently mean nothing to you.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

Now time to be the disecting surgeon.

Well, I assure you, I didn't intend to offend you. But I do wish you wouldn't be quite so caustic. I didn't realize I was quite such bad company. I'll be sure to remember that.

Gald you didn't intend to, but I told you why.

But actually, your points only emphasize what I was trying to say.

...WHAT?!? I'm emphasizing you? how did I EMPHASIZE your points on CmP? I'm QUITE sure that you came after me and that if ANYTHING you were emphasizing me.

Oh, and on Twiddy, I haven't said I agreed or supported any of your points. Argued some I did.

2 independant lines of thought arrived at the same conclusion. Doesn't that mean something to you?

No, it doesn't. We had similar eyes for scum. This doesn't make us the same and never will. Mutual interest does not allies make. Mutual allignment, sure. Doesn't mean I'll ever believe you like you so wholeheartedly did with me.

And the Vig is a TOWNIE first and foremost. They are NOT the serial killer.

They are if they want to be. Their role, not yours. Remember that.


If they aren't going after who the town (Who basically consists of you and me being confirmed innocent) thinks is guilty, they are dangerous.

Or they're right. The MEANING of a vig is someone who works by themselves, forming justice as they see fit. They can be considered saviors or murderers. S/he could have insight we don't know of and that they don't want to share because it draws unwanted eyes to them.

Just because you didn't vote for IHMN, didn't make him any less so.

Make him any less dangerous? No, had he not been just a BIT forgetful, the town would have had a much earier time winning. He randomly targetted a mafia and forgot when it came to night time. He'd have been a savior first. I'll have you remember even the most unorthodox of strategies can be the best for the time.

And since we only have one death to judge our new Vig by (a townie) I don't entirely trust their line of thinking. Can you blame me?

Oh, one kill definitely condemns how smart they are. If you wanted me to, I could run down a line of reasons why B_Real was scum, though he wasn't. The same could be said for everything we're saying RIGHT now about CmP and Twiddy.

And if I'm so incredibly stupid, please ignore my posts for the insane ramblings you take them to be from now on, as they apparently mean nothing to you.

The Wandering God

I not once called you stupid. I actually think you're a rather bright individual and player.

But right now, you're running off of a "Holier than thou" attitude. It's upsetting some people. I, for one, don't like your needless over agression, which you're only allowed to live with because of your revealation.

Tone it down a bit, don't assume things about me and stop acting infalliable. Whether you think you are or not, it's true. Other people in and outside the game have informed me about this(Not cheating, just saying how you were acting.).

[The Wandering God]

Now time to be the disecting surgeon.
Ah yes, because I'm someone ill and in need of special care. (Yes I'm aware of you saying that because you are splitting my post up, but the terminology is still there.) Now let me cut your post up-I mean respond.

Gald you didn't intend to, but I told you why.
Yes, you told me that you didn't want to have any association with me whatsoever, that's what you told me. Because as we all know, we shouldn't be working together at all. And it's certainly not like I've tried to make several suggestions and then go on to ASK THE REST OF THE TOWN WHAT IT THOUGHT. Yes, how egocentric of me. Obviously, I have all the power and am running the show.

...WHAT?!? I'm emphasizing you? how did I EMPHASIZE your points on CmP? I'm QUITE sure that you came after me and that if ANYTHING you were emphasizing me.
This is what happens when you cut up posts. You run the risk of taking things out of context. But to spell it out for you, you said that we couldn't be sure of anything. But outside of PO or reporter, what more could it possibly take to convince people that CmP and Twiddy are mafiates? We have two known townies thinking this. That one simply isn't agreeing with the other is what emphasizes it.

Oh, and on Twiddy, I haven't said I agreed or supported any of your points. Argued some I did.
Yes, because they are obviously the insame ramblings of a blathering idiot. Unlike you, who are so very clever, and can figure things out all on her own. You don't need anyone else.

No, it doesn't. We had similar eyes for scum. This doesn't make us the same and never will. Mutual interest does not allies make. Mutual allignment, sure. Doesn't mean I'll ever believe you like you so wholeheartedly did with me.
No, we obviously aren't the same. Unlike you, I actually take what others say into consideration. And can you name one time, ONE FUCKING TIME, when I agreed wholeheartedly with you without giving any reasons of my own? I have never said "I'm voting for them because Mesden is". The only remark you can possibly be pulling that from is when I said I'd follow your lead. I never said I'd do exactly as you did or that I would believe your word was the holy gospel.

They are if they want to be. Their role, not yours. Remember that.
No, no, NO, NO! They are a TOWNIE. If the town loses, they lose. If they are killing townies left and right, the town ends up losing. We are in it together. They are NOT the serial killer. What the hell is wrong with you? This is not up for discussion. What I just said was fact. Might I remind you that they were a townie before they ever laid hands upon that gun?

Or they're right. The MEANING of a vig is someone who works by themselves, forming justice as they see fit. They can be considered saviors or murderers. S/he could have insight we don't know of and that they don't want to share because it draws unwanted eyes to them.
Yes, because they obviously could figure out who was mafia with their first kill. Oh wait, nevermind. B_Real was a townie. That insight was pretty frickin' valuable wasn't it?

Make him any less dangerous? No, had he not been just a BIT forgetful, the town would have had a much earier time winning. He randomly targetted a mafia and forgot when it came to night time. He'd have been a savior first. I'll have you remember even the most unorthodox of strategies can be the best for the time.
Or the worst. Noone thinks random voting is the way to go. At best, it simply is something you do on the first day or night before you see how things go.

Oh, one kill definitely condemns how smart they are. If you wanted me to, I could run down a line of reasons why B_Real was scum, though he wasn't. The same could be said for everything we're saying RIGHT now about CmP and Twiddy.
No, but it does confirm that maybe they aren't the best judge of who to kill. Are you trying to say B_Real isn't any less dead? Because he is. And the list's of reasons for CmP and Twiddy would probably outweigh those.

And again, I never thought he was a mafiate.

I not once called you stupid. I actually think you're a rather bright individual and player.
It was when you basically said, "I don't agree with anything you said", that I pretty much took it to mean my words mean nothing to you. Of course, you don't actually address the ignoring part.

But right now, you're running off of a "Holier than thou" attitude. It's upsetting some people. I, for one, don't like your needless over agression, which you're only allowed to live with because of your revealation.
No, right now, I'm running off of a "completely pissed off that so many people have dropped out" attitude. And you can add "continually ignored" to that. Also, "extreme frustation at the lack of people to see the logic I use."

And I'm agressive because
A) I feel it's what the situation calls for. Mafiates can always say, "Why are you being so aggresive?" and point the finger at their accuser.
however
B) I'm a townie now. It only allows me to fully conduct the hunt for the mafiates in our presence. It doesn't confer any special powers but the ability for others to know it's the voice of a townie speaking.

Tone it down a bit, don't assume things about me and stop acting infalliable. Whether you think you are or not, it's true. Other people in and outside the game have informed me about this(Not cheating, just saying how you were acting.).
I never said I was infallible. I did, however, say this is the best chance we have. Indecisivness led to a townie's lynching. I won't make that same mistake again. And my dear lady, "don't assume things"? Maybe we should just go by different names, "Pot" and "Kettle".

And I just love your super-secret clubs and little whisper groups. You KNOW how I feel about those. I guess I just have my own little sense of judgement to go by. Must be damn nice to have the input of others.

And as much as you tell me not to tell the vig how to act, I'm surpised at the hypocrisy that you are trying to say, "Don't act that way."

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

Ah yes, because I'm someone ill and in need of special care. (Yes I'm aware of you saying that because you are splitting my post up, but the terminology is still there.) Now let me cut your post up-I mean respond.

Sadly, this was the only real light note in my post. It was sarcasm and you're taking a bit of an overzealous route here.

Yes, you told me that you didn't want to have any association with me whatsoever, that's what you told me. Because as we all know, we shouldn't be working together at all. And it's certainly not like I've tried to make several suggestions and then go on to ASK THE REST OF THE TOWN WHAT IT THOUGHT. Yes, how egocentric of me. Obviously, I have all the power and am running the show.

Not that I don't have any association with you. Working together is well and good, but I follow my own beliefs here, TWG. You know as well as I am that I'm fairly independent in my ideas and thinking. You're not asking the rest of the town, by the way.

You're TELLING the vig what to do. That's not asking the rest of the town. You're SAYING that you're going to get Twiddy killed next. That's not asking the town, though it holds the capacity to do so.


This is what happens when you cut up posts. You run the risk of taking things out of context. But to spell it out for you, you said that we couldn't be sure of anything. But outside of PO or reporter, what more could it possibly take to convince people that CmP and Twiddy are mafiates? We have two known townies thinking this. That one simply isn't agreeing with the other is what emphasizes it.

We aren't in REAL disagreement, honestly. Just, like you said, two paths to the same destination. I'm not going to emphasize your points because you could be every bit as wrong as I am, but I know it's my fault when I make a mistake. Not someone else's. That's why I make my own points.


Yes, because they are obviously the insame ramblings of a blathering idiot. Unlike you, who are so very clever, and can figure things out all on her own. You don't need anyone else.

I'm not so very clever. I'm not the brightest. Hell, I don't consider myself as smart as you, truth be told. What I do know is that I should do what I think is right so I can't blame it on anyone else. I DO need others. Just not as powerfully as you think. My ideas are worthless without others because no one would hear it.

There's no other logic I can wholeheartedly believe besides my own. It's just how I am because I can't follow another's lead. I need to have my own belief of someone's scum, not your belief.

No, we obviously aren't the same. Unlike you, I actually take what others say into consideration. And can you name one time, ONE FUCKING TIME, when I agreed wholeheartedly with you without giving any reasons of my own? I have never said "I'm voting for them because Mesden is". The only remark you can possibly be pulling that from is when I said I'd follow your lead. I never said I'd do exactly as you did or that I would believe your word was the holy gospel.

Now you're getting a bit harsh towards me. Also, I'll admit I overexaggerated the wholehearted part in the anger I had when making the post. But you did put the hopes of the town on my shoulders for all intents and puposes.

But you did say you would follow my lead. That was enough for me to not accept anything you said and go off on my own.


No, no, NO, NO! They are a TOWNIE. If the town loses, they lose. If they are killing townies left and right, the town ends up losing. We are in it together. They are NOT the serial killer. What the hell is wrong with you? This is not up for discussion. What I just said was fact. Might I remind you that they were a townie before they ever laid hands upon that gun?

Yes, they are a townie. I know this fully. I know the conditions for them winning. That will never change the fact that how they chose to play their role is their choice. Not yours. Remember that.

Yes, because they obviously could figure out who was mafia with their first kill. Oh wait, nevermind. B_Real was a townie. That insight was pretty frickin' valuable wasn't it?

Damn it, TWG. Stop the berating of that. That's like insulting that player. They made a mistake, it happens. That doesn't mean their judgement is automatically horrible.


Or the worst. Noone thinks random voting is the way to go. At best, it simply is something you do on the first day or night before you see how things go.

Some people do. IHMN does. What's your argument in that the Vigilante now doens't think the same? There is no argument. You don't know that person unless you are the vig. Which I'll assume you aren't as you're needlessly insulting that person off one, most likely, honest mistake.


[qupte]No, but it does confirm that maybe they aren't the best judge of who to kill. Are you trying to say B_Real isn't any less dead? Because he is. And the list's of reasons for CmP and Twiddy would probably outweigh those. [/quote]

Maybe not. But who says you and I are? Why should they follow us? There's no guarantee that CmP and Twiddy are mafia.

And again, I never thought he was a mafiate.

Now don't go getting self righteous on us. ;)


It was when you basically said, "I don't agree with anything you said", that I pretty much took it to mean my words mean nothing to you. Of course, you don't actually address the ignoring part.

I told you why I didn't agree with you. I gave reasons and then formed my own opinions. You know why by now. I don't ignore anything. I'm a rather sharp eyed player if I do say so myself.


No, right now, I'm running off of a "completely pissed off that so many people have dropped out" attitude. And you can add "continually ignored" to that. Also, "extreme frustation at the lack of people to see the logic I use."

Then stop playing for a bit. Calm down. Go out for a walk. Play a game. Don't put the anger here. I don't ignore what you said. I just don't chose to follow it. So sue me if I feel like trusting my belief more than yours...Wait a second, isn't that what you're doing too? Choosing what you think over what I think? I believe it is.

And I'm agressive because
A) I feel it's what the situation calls for. Mafiates can always say, "Why are you being so aggresive?" and point the finger at their accuser.

Being agressive is alright. But don't offend people. It's a game. Winning isn't everything you know. You're being OVER aggresive is what I'm trying to say. And you know you can't be convicted for it because you're a townie. Please, I'm asking you as a fellow player, just to calm down a bit.


however

Okay.


B) I'm a townie now. It only allows me to fully conduct the hunt for the mafiates in our presence. It doesn't confer any special powers but the ability for others to know it's the voice of a townie speaking.

Yup. But, I'll refer you to my last statement.(Not the "Okay" one. ;))


I never said I was infallible. I did, however, say this is the best chance we have. Indecisivness led to a townie's lynching. I won't make that same mistake again. And my dear lady, "don't assume things"? Maybe we should just go by different names, "Pot" and "Kettle".

What you believe is the best chance is not what other believe is the best chance. And, on the assume things part, you are making statements about how I feel which happen to be untrue and borderlining an insult to me.

And I just love your super-secret clubs and little whisper groups. You KNOW how I feel about those. I guess I just have my own little sense of judgement to go by. Must be damn nice to have the input of others.

Oh no, you don't accuse us of cheating. We don't discuss anything about the game. We're mature enough to follow the rules. And by we, I mean Myself, SillyKitty and The Wizard Who Did It. We happen to be friends and talk in Chat8Bit on AOL Instant Messenger. It's not a secret club. We DO talk about how your posts affect the person out of game wise, which is something you seem to be missing in what I said.

You've made people feel bad and upset over a game. This is where everyone needs to calm down and take it as a game.

And as much as you tell me not to tell the vig how to act, I'm surpised at the hypocrisy that you are trying to say, "Don't act that way."

The Wandering God

Now you ARE insulting me. You just called me a hypocrite and to me, this is an insult of one of the highest calibur.

I'm not telling you how to act. I'm asking you, person to person, to PLEASE just tone it down a wee bit as to not upset others. It's not an order, it's a request as a person.

Again, don't assume things about me and insult me. This is a game and saying these things are unnecessary.




Edit: Quoting problem

[Bailey]

CMP
TWG
Crazy Ben
H4x

Twiddy
Mes

Big Mac
CmP
Thundergod Cid


Deadline is either Friday noon or any time between Friday 6 and 10 pm, depending on how my day ends up going.

[CallmePrismatic]

So Newb, any confirmation either way about the kicking out of inactives?

And POS, is that a joke to say you're here watching but don't have time for anything concrete to add, or was Silly Kitty correct in recalling that you wanted to be taken out if you were compulsed into inactitude?

[Bailey]

I won't remove anybody who is affecting the game unless they ask me to.

[h4x.m4g3]

On the other hand, if you think I made it up because it couldn't be verified, that's false. Let the PO or Reporter waste a Night investigating me. Although, to indulge in some Mesden-esque "If I were a mafiate" pondering, a mafiate who wants to fake-claim would probably say they were the PO. At that point the real PO would be forced to step up, and even if the mafiate died he would have succeeded in getting the PO to show himself.
I already covered that once, just don't believe any roleclaims and urge the reporter to investigate the claim that night. Here's a link. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=404718&postcount=341)
This way, should the reporter do his/her job, no PO is revealed and no one has to be fooled by the fake PO, with little downside at all (if they've already roleclaimed and are the real PO, the mafia is immeadiately going to target them, and if they're a mafia fake, we learn the truth. In fact the only possible downside is we have to trust the reporter to do his/her job, and wait till the next day to see the results.

[CallmePrismatic]

I won't remove anybody who is affecting the game unless they ask me to.
Well that settles it, inactives have roles...Unless there's some other definition of "affecting the game", like merely existing.

Since POS actually bothered to reply in the thread I'm going to assume for now that he has some sort of town-role or at least has been checking in on the thread to see what's been going on (and if he does have a town-role, to further help his Night decisions).

Big Mac not having posted probably means he has a role of little significance to him (since he's been posting elsewhere in the forum). Unless he PMs Newb a random name every Night to Investigate (The reporter and Vig's actions both imply that they are following the not-so-subtle nuances of the thread, leaving the PO as the only good role we don't see explicitly), I'm guessing he's a mafiate who figured out that he has no real Night responsibilities/wanted to keep out of the spotlight.

[Bailey]

Just to clarify, I consider having people voting for you to be affecting the game.

[The Wandering God]

Sadly, this was the only real light note in my post. It was sarcasm and you're taking a bit of an overzealous route here.
Yes, I'm am being zealous. Is that not a viable play style? As opposed to just sitting in the background and going, "Oh, I don't know what to do or say."

Not that I don't have any association with you. Working together is well and good, but I follow my own beliefs here, TWG. You know as well as I am that I'm fairly independent in my ideas and thinking. You're not asking the rest of the town, by the way.
Yeah, I totally didn't ask the town on the first day what they thought of my reporter/bodyguard idea. Or what to do about the PO and when they reveal themselves. Or anything really. I certainly haven't given plans.

Ah hell wait I did, making plans that I think we should follow, oh no! And last time I checked, I have no authority to do anything. So I could say, "This is what we are doing", but if noone does it... Well, I hope you get the idea.

You're TELLING the vig what to do. That's not asking the rest of the town. You're SAYING that you're going to get Twiddy killed next. That's not asking the town, though it holds the capacity to do so.
Yes, but I'm not ORDERING the vig to do anything. Maybe in your world, telling=ordering, but in mine, telling=suggesting. And I hope and expect the town to have input. Haven't I asked for yours before? Oh wait, that's right, you don't want to have anything to do with me. I guess you think the rest of the town should do so as well. Thanks Mesden.

We aren't in REAL disagreement, honestly. Just, like you said, two paths to the same destination. I'm not going to emphasize your points because you could be every bit as wrong as I am, but I know it's my fault when I make a mistake. Not someone else's. That's why I make my own points.
If we are both wrong, then who is right? Who else is considered suspect at this point? If you don't believe your right, then why are you doing what you are doing. Yes, there is always the possibility that you (or me, or anyone) could be wrong, but there has to be a cutoff point. That's when you vote.

I'm not so very clever. I'm not the brightest. Hell, I don't consider myself as smart as you, truth be told. What I do know is that I should do what I think is right so I can't blame it on anyone else. I DO need others. Just not as powerfully as you think. My ideas are worthless without others because no one would hear it.
I'm not asking you to be accountable for my actions. I would never ask that of anyone. And if you don't need others why, do you say later in this post "go off on my own."?

There's no other logic I can wholeheartedly believe besides my own. It's just how I am because I can't follow another's lead. I need to have my own belief of someone's scum, not your belief.
So, if someone else thought of it, it might not hold water? That's great, that's really great. Except it kind of failed you when it came to B_real. Just like mine when it came to Ogianres. But when both of us agree on Twiddy and CmP?

Now you're getting a bit harsh towards me. Also, I'll admit I overexaggerated the wholehearted part in the anger I had when making the post. But you did put the hopes of the town on my shoulders for all intents and puposes.
Actually, I'd say you started the harshness. I wasn't kidding with the caustic remark. And how did I put the hopes of the town on your shoulder?

But you did say you would follow my lead. That was enough for me to not accept anything you said and go off on my own.
Well, I guess you got proven wrong then, as you probably got started on that line of thinking because you were suspicious of me. (I remember you saying it was between me and CmP.)

However, I fail to see the problem now. You KNOW that I said that because, as an unknown, I didn't have the ability to speak with the kind of freedom I have now. And I was worried about the mafia targetting me. Now that I'm a known townie, I have to stand on my own and make my time count, as it could end at any nightfall.

Yes, they are a townie. I know this fully. I know the conditions for them winning. That will never change the fact that how they chose to play their role is their choice. Not yours. Remember that.
Yes, it is their choice whether to at least attempt to listen to what others say or not. But the fact of the matter is, what is in our best interests is in theirs and vice versa.

Damn it, TWG. Stop the berating of that. That's like insulting that player. They made a mistake, it happens. That doesn't mean their judgement is automatically horrible.
No, but it does mean they should really think and evalute who (if anyone) they hit next. And seeing what others think is part of that.

Remember when the PO told the vig to kill that mafiate in your game because they had that lynch thing that would get the last two voters killed?

Noone freaked out then about telling the vig what to do.

But you say, "But it was the PO telling them that". While not the PO, you DO agree with me in that Twiddy and CmP are the biggest suspects. We are, for all intents and purposes, the voice of the town right now. And I believe that the vig should follow the voice of the town.

Some people do. IHMN does. What's your argument in that the Vigilante now doens't think the same? There is no argument. You don't know that person unless you are the vig. Which I'll assume you aren't as you're needlessly insulting that person off one, most likely, honest mistake.
I don't know what they think. But if it is a random kill, then we are pretty fucked, as the town has few chances left.

All I'm saying at most is that they aren't particulary good at guessing who is mafiate. That's hardly an insult when you take into account they the one thing we have to go on backs it up.

Maybe not. But who says you and I are? Why should they follow us? There's no guarantee that CmP and Twiddy are mafia.
There is no guarantee of anything. But, to us, they are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Silly Kitty at this point. Who do YOU think the vig should hit?

Now don't go getting self righteous on us. ;)
I'm simply pointing out that I was able to discern his alignment.

I told you why I didn't agree with you. I gave reasons and then formed my own opinions. You know why by now. I don't ignore anything. I'm a rather sharp eyed player if I do say so myself.
That doesn't actually prohibit you from thinking I'm stupid ya know. In my experience, if you don't agree with a person's reasoning, it's because you think that person is stupid.

Then stop playing for a bit. Calm down. Go out for a walk. Play a game. Don't put the anger here. I don't ignore what you said. I just don't chose to follow it. So sue me if I feel like trusting my belief more than yours...Wait a second, isn't that what you're doing too? Choosing what you think over what I think? I believe it is.
Well I would, but all those reasons will still be there when I get back. (Unless I die, or a miracle happens, and people actually listen to me.)

And then you go assuming again. I'm expressing my thoughts logically. I've never asked anyone to blindly follow me. Don't say it again.

Being agressive is alright. But don't offend people. It's a game. Winning isn't everything you know. You're being OVER aggresive is what I'm trying to say. And you know you can't be convicted for it because you're a townie. Please, I'm asking you as a fellow player, just to calm down a bit.
When did I offend someone? (Besides you?) Because they certainly didn't bring it up with me. I'm not psychic. I can't tell when I'm stepping on toes. Maybe you could be a bit more specific.

Yup. But, I'll refer you to my last statement.(Not the "Okay" one. ;))
Being aggresive only hurts the town if I'm being unreasonable. So it's a question of, "Am I being unreasonable?"

What you believe is the best chance is not what other believe is the best chance. And, on the assume things part, you are making statements about how I feel which happen to be untrue and borderlining an insult to me.
It's not just what I think. It's what you think too. (On the subject of Twiddy's and CmP's guilt.) And I'll stop assuming when you start treating me like a human being.

Oh no, you don't accuse us of cheating. We don't discuss anything about the game. We're mature enough to follow the rules. And by we, I mean Myself, SillyKitty and The Wizard Who Did It. We happen to be friends and talk in Chat8Bit on AOL Instant Messenger. It's not a secret club. We DO talk about how your posts affect the person out of game wise, which is something you seem to be missing in what I said.
First, off, cut that "us" shit out. I'm not talking to them, I'm talking to you. If they have something they want to say to me, let them say it.

Second off, I never said cheating. Nor have I said anything to Newb about it either.

Third, drop it. The next time you name drop anyone else like that, I'm quitting.

Fourth, what do Newb and/or the mods have to say?

You've made people feel bad and upset over a game. This is where everyone needs to calm down and take it as a game.
I can't "make" anyone feel anything. People are responsible for their own feelings. (As you said.) If someone IS upset, then I'm right here.

[The Wandering God]

NOTE: Due to space restrictions, (10,000 character long posts only) I had to break this into two posts. Double posting is bad, but I really wanted to get everything across.

Now you ARE insulting me. You just called me a hypocrite and to me, this is an insult of one of the highest calibur.

I'm not telling you how to act. I'm asking you, person to person, to PLEASE just tone it down a wee bit as to not upset others. It's not an order, it's a request as a person.

Again, don't assume things about me and insult me. This is a game and saying these things are unnecessary.

I called you a hypocrite because you just said "tone it down". Kind of like how I just said the vig, "Do this". Now then, who is suggesting what, and who is telling who what?

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.

Let me sum things up from my point of view, and then'll we go from there.

Here's what I think:
The Vig made a mistake. Before they make another, maybe they should listen to people they can trust aren't mafiates. Who is that? Us. I'd say the exact same thing if it were two different people as confirmed townies who happened to agree on who is the most suspicious. This isn't because "I" think so. I'd suggest the vig follow if the confirmed townies happend to be anyone.

As to you, Mesden, I simply think you are a bit too arrogant. You have either stated or implied that my reasoning is flawed. Who's feelings are getting hurt here? Both of us. Don't pretend it's not the case. But don't act like it's entirely my fault either.

So, Mesden, what do you think?

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

TWG, you call me arrogant. I've done nothing but see arrogance in you since your townieness was revealed.

All I've done is state what I believe here and you've done nothing but irritate and insult me. You're being an ass and that's the gist of it. I can't take your attitude towards me one more moment.

I'm quitting. I am the vigilante, mind you, and I was to hit CmP or Twid tonight, whichever wasn't lynched.

You doubted my judgement when it was the same as yours and have done nothing short of upset me in a game. I was in it to have fun and you've stripped away my last chance at this.

Goodbye Mafia.

Edit, I took out my other suspicion. It's pointless for me to say anything I believe.

[Silly Kitty]

No, but it does mean they should really think and evalute who (if anyone) they hit next. And seeing what others think is part of that.

Remember when the PO told the vig to kill that mafiate in your game because they had that lynch thing that would get the last two voters killed?

Noone freaked out then about telling the vig what to do.

But you say, "But it was the PO telling them that". While not the PO, you DO agree with me in that Twiddy and CmP are the biggest suspects. We are, for all intents and purposes, the voice of the town right now. And I believe that the vig should follow the voice of the town.

I was the PO in that game. I knew someone was mafia. The vig hit them because he knew that person was mafia. TWG, do you know who is mafia? Do you know for a fact that Twiddy is mafia? Do you have a special role that tells you that like a PO role? No? Then don't compare the two.

Also, in answer to your question about who I think the vig should hit, I don't think it matters who I want the vig to hit. It matters who the vig wants to hit.

Edit: You called Mes stupid and questioned her judgement(her being the vig). Wasn't your judgement the same as hers?

[The Wandering God]

TWG, you call me arrogant. I've done nothing but see arrogance in you since your townieness was revealed.

All I've done is state what I believe here and you've done nothing but irritate and insult me. You're being an ass and that's the gist of it. I can't take your attitude towards me one more moment.

I'm quitting. I am the vigilante, mind you, and I was to hit CmP or Twid tonight, whichever wasn't lynched. My other belief is that Thundergod Cid is a mafiate.

You doubted my judgement when it was the same as yours and have done nothing short of upset me in a game. I was in it to have fun and you've stripped away my last chance at this.

Goodbye Mafia.
First off if you actually bother to not just run off after that dramatic post, could you point out some examples of my "arrogance"?

Done nothing but irritate and insult? Bull. First, I questioned you. Then I was convinced of your innocence. Then you were revealed as a townie. Then I said I'd FOLLOW YOUR LEAD. I actually didn't even interact with you until this game day.

I resent you calling me an ass. Especially when it seems like you were GOING TO DO EXACTLY LIKE I SUGGESTED. Or is that what got you upset? That I said it, and later on, you didn't want it attributed to me? All the glory for Mesden because she was the vig who rescued the town?

I doubted your judgment? I don't see how, WHEN WE WERE THINKING THE EXACT SAME THING about what course of action to take.

And don't put the blame on me for you quitting. Noone made you quit.

And I'm >< this close to quitting myself, as the game has been a wash from the beginning.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

First off if you actually bother to not just run off after that dramatic post, could you point out some examples of my "arrogance"?

Done nothing but irritate and insult? Bull. First, I questioned you. Then I was convinced of your innocence. Then you were revealed as a townie. Then I said I'd FOLLOW YOUR LEAD. I actually didn't even interact with you until this game day.

I resent you calling me an ass. Especially when it seems like you were GOING TO DO EXACTLY LIKE I SUGGESTED. Or is that what got you upset? That I said it, and later on, you didn't want it attributed to me? All the glory for Mesden because she was the vig who rescued the town?

I doubted your judgment? I don't see how, WHEN WE WERE THINKING THE EXACT SAME THING about what course of action to take.

And don't put the blame on me for you quitting. Noone made you quit.

And I'm >< this close to quitting myself, as the game has been a wash from the beginning.

The Wandering God


Insults to me: Hypocrite. Untrustworthy Judgement. Arrogant. (Sadly, as our judgement is the same for CmP and Twid, you're Judgement must be unstrustworthy too.)

As far as done nothing but insult and berate. I'd guess I should've said done nothing lately.

You said you'd follow my lead. Fine. But I didn't do what you suggested. I do what I suggested. I was the first person to suspect CmP. And though I do give you credit for pointing Twid out, I still had my own reasons to kill him.

I'm calling you an ass because you're berating me. It's a game. You don't play only to win, but to have fun. You ripped the fun away from my last game.

I don't care about glory. That didn't even matter. I wasn't going to be the vig that rescued the town. I was going to be the vig who killed who she thought was scummy.

You doubted my judgement when you said what you did about the Vig's judgement. Twas an accident, I said. and you kept saying how they couldn't be trusted on their own.

And I do blame you for my quitting. You, yes you, have taken the fun away from this game and upset me. So, had it not been for you, I would still be playing. Don't pull that flawwed logic. You didn't FORCE me too. But you're the reason. Stop trying to refurse the fact.

Then quit. If you're not having fun, quit. It's what I did and it'd be my fault if you did, since I'm the reason you aren't having fun. But now I'm gone. So you don't need to worry about it.

Edit: Sorry, missed one part, slightly on purpose. If you want examples, I'll let everyone in the thread state them, as you want their opinions too.

[Krylo]

You kids can't even play your little games unsupervised anymore? Do I have to take the board away?

Don't make me go back and make my own judgements over who started what and what's going on. I'm seeing a lot of 'stepping over the line' on both sides, and I'm going to let it slide for now.

However, if problems like this continue I'll flip a coin to decide between stopping mafia for awhile or banning the people involved.

Drop it all right now.

Go play the game, if you're still in it, and let Mesden alone. If you want to quit, then quit and don't bother responding. Bad blood breeds bad blood, and we have enough of this here already.

[The Wandering God]

Insults to me: Hypocrite. Untrustworthy Judgement. Arrogant. (Sadly, as our judgement is the same for CmP and Twid, you're Judgement must be unstrustworthy too.)
And what about the insults to me? Hmmm? Arrogant, ass, and stupid. And where's the explanation for calling me arrogant?

As far as done nothing but insult and berate. I'd guess I should've said done nothing lately.
Except I didn't know that you were the vig. How was I to know?

You said you'd follow my lead. Fine. But I didn't do what you suggested. I do what I suggested. I was the first person to suspect CmP. And though I do give you credit for pointing Twid out, I still had my own reasons to kill him.
When didn't you do what I suggested? What are you referring to? Why is this about who suspected who first? And then you say it's not about glory.

I'm calling you an ass because you're berating me. It's a game. You don't play only to win, but to have fun. You ripped the fun away from my last game.
Well it's kind of hard to have fun when I try my damndest to make you see what I'm trying to say and all you say is, "I'm not going to listen to anyone else but me." Yeah, real mature. Of course I'm not going to just let you stand there and ignore me. I'm going to try and make you see my side of things.

And, again, for the umpteenth time, I. Can't. Control. Your. Emotions. How much fun you are having is not my responsibility.

I don't care about glory. That didn't even matter. I wasn't going to be the vig that rescued the town. I was going to be the vig who killed who she thought was scummy.
Yet you keep making points about how you thought CmP was guilty first. And yes, you were going to be the one who killed people YOU thought were scummy. Great way you started off too. Why don't you apologzie to B_real?

Of course, since you were going to kill off either of them, and since I said that's what the vig should do, you couldn't claim that later without it being questioned.

You doubted my judgement when you said what you did about the Vig's judgement. Twas an accident, I said. and you kept saying how they couldn't be trusted on their own.
First off, I didn't know you were the Vig. And I think I was within reason for suspecting that, since you, ya know, killed a townie. That little thing you just can't stand to hear? And no, I don't think a vig can be trusted until they prove themselves. If you had hit CmP or Twiddy, then I would have retracted those statements. But as soon as things got tough, you quit.

And I do blame you for my quitting. You, yes you, have taken the fun away from this game and upset me. So, had it not been for you, I would still be playing. Don't pull that flawwed logic. You didn't FORCE me too. But you're the reason. Stop trying to refurse the fact.
Nooooo, I didn't make you quit. Stop saying I did. Stop saying I control your emotions. I may be the reason, but don't treat it like fact either. Just because you say something, doesn't make it true. And if I am the reason, that still doesn't excuse you skipping out on everyone else. You know, the responsiblity to complete the game for other people.

Then quit. If you're not having fun, quit. It's what I did and it'd be my fault if you did, since I'm the reason you aren't having fun. But now I'm gone. So you don't need to worry about it.

I won't quit, because if I did, then the game might fall apart. That is, if it doesn't happen because you quit.

But those would be reasons. You can't control how I feel. If I quit, it will be because I want to. It's called responsibility.

The Wandering God

[CallmePrismatic]

krylo, or whatever other mods happen to be reading, I pray to god TWG made that post before you made yours and you don't take it as going against your better wishes, and subsequently unleashing the coin toss. This is the first Mafia game with such a...fued, and I'd ask you look at the other threads for how these things usually work, i.e. funner and with more game-ness. I'd feel partly responsible if people got banned because of playing a game I brought in.

That said I'm quitting. I was mafia. Congrats to all who suspected me. I thought about going through but this was a game plagued by townie drop outs from the beginning and just feels like a cheap mafia win.

It was a joke though. With every fiber of my being as a person not playing anymore, it was a joke.

[Krylo]

THIS game is over, and TWG is getting a temp ban.

I saw that right away and waited a few minutes, even went to see if he was out of the thread and doing other things.

He had his chance to notice and decide to delete that, incase he did make it before me.

AND, even if he hadn't seen it, it should have been obvious that this was going way way way too far now. There's no excuse for continuing like that regardless.

FURTHER, at the first SIGN of another feud anything like this, everyone involved is banned from playing Mafia altogether.

If that gets to be too much work (like I find someone playing Mafia who is banned from it once or it starts happening more often), Mafia gets closed down.

That is unless another mod decides to take a stricter line.

Seriously, this kind of thing is just irritating.