Mafia: Basic

[Bailey]

Alright, I'm running a game of mafia. I've already decided which slot gets each role, so as soon as they are all filled the game can start. You all know the rules. During the day, you talk, and vote on who to kill as a town. During the night, people send in actions, while nobody posts in the thread. Mafia discuss among themselves and the Don chooses somebody to kill. The Vigilante and Serial Killer each choose somebody to kill. The detective and reporter each investigate somebody, and the doctor chooses somebody to make a house call on in an attempt to save them.

One change here. One person will be allowed to talk at night. The person who was lynched may make one post after I post their death, and this will be their last words. Normally this will just be something like "oh well" or "you got me' or "good game", but in some cases, it might be "person x is a mafiate, avenge me."

The only limit on the last words is that you may not exceed 75 characters, so put it through word count first.

Anyone who deletes a post and is caught doing so dies. No questions asked. If you truly feel compelled, copy the contents of the post to a PM, send them to me, and edit the post to say "this post not here." I may ask you to put it back.

Any time you edit a post, you must fill in the reason tag.

The sides are as follows:

Town:
Civilians (15)
Detective (1)
Doctor (1)
Vigilante (1)

Mafiates (5)

Reporter (1)

Serial Killer (1)

As you can see, Reporter, which few of you will recognize, is on a side of his own. He wins when all that's left is himself and civilians. Like the detective, he investigates, but unlike the detective, his investigations are published and delivered to everybody's front steps.

Now, the reporter is odd in that the town can still win if he is alive, despite having different win conditions from the town.

The town just needs to get rid of the mafiates and the killer to win.

Rather than secret roles, I came up with some personality traits, and randomized them seperately from the roles. Only one of these could ever be considered inherently bad for the recipient, and the way the dice landed it is not so this time.

So send in those join requests via PM people!

Let's get this going!

1 Supreme Edgemaster the Normal Civilian
2 Major_Blood
3 catlover20410 the Normal Mafiate
4 The_Wandering_God
5 DarthMauler64
6 Mesden
7 B_real_shadows the normal civilian
8 h4x.m4g3
9 Thundergod_Cid
10 POS_Industries
11 Grthwllms the Obvious Civilian
12 CallmePrismatic
13 FenrisWolf
14 Ecurt the Normal Civilian
15 CrazyBen
16 SithDarth the Normal Serial Killer
17 sk3l3t0n the talkative doctor
18 Inbred Chocobo the Normal Civilian
19 Neyo the King the Normal Vigilante
20 Silly Kitty
21 The Wizard Who Did It
22 Ogianres Nosy Civilian
23 secretskull
24 Patrat the Insightful Reporter
25 Big Mac

[Truce]

...okay.

It's been four days. Sorry to sound impatient, but I'd like to know if this game was going anywhere or not.

[Bailey]

GRRRR!

This is my angry face!

Neither role sent something in.

I'm going to replace everybody who doesn't participate today that I can, because what with the random rolling, I really don't want people accusing me of changing those to influence the game.

Just as a note, if ever the detective needs to be rolled for, they will not recieve the results until the next time they tell me who they are investigating.

Anyways, the game begins!

*********************************************

Late last night, the doctor was visiting his good friend TWG, and, seeing the time, went to go get ready for the trip back to his house. While he was in the bathroom, a strange man clad in white burst in through the door. "I detect evil!" He proclaimed before shooting poor TWG and running off. The doctor, hearing the gunfire, rushed out and managed to stabilize TWG's condition, and he made a full recovery.

**************************

Grthwllms heard a knock at the door. He threw on his shirt, which had Obvious Civilian printed on it, and walked down the steps. He opened the door, and took five bullets in the chest. By the time the ambulance arrived, it was too late. One person knew what he was, but that made no difference now.

****************

The day begins and you all have a newspaper on your front steps.

EXTRA! EXTRA!
Inbred Chocobo, the Normal Civilian has been killed in a truly bizarre manner. His toes were sliced off and fed to him, his stomach cut open, and finally his lungs were filled with sulfuric acid. The only guess put forward by this reporter is that perhaps some new serial killer is trying to develop their own style.

[Mesden]

Alright, let's get obviousness out of the way.

Good Job Mr. Doctor, or maybe not, depending on TWG's allignment.

Atleast the SK hit a townie as well as the other killing role and not something more important.

And now, votes shall be thrown about to start the game and I believe I will be first on this list given my past history. (I refer you to CmP saying he would vote for me as soon as the next game starts).

All I can say is, what are the odds that I'm evil AGAIN? I'll lay my fate un your hands and submit that I'm town alligned.

Don't take this as being overly wary, I'm just putting out my reasons before someone up and accuses me for my record and not game based events.

Edit to say, BAD JOB MR. VIG! Maybe, depending on whether or not TWG is evil(If that was his target). And if Grth was his target, then BAD!

[DarthMauler64]

Finally!!! It's day time!!!

Here is what I think right now

The bodyguard is probally active because the BG defended TWG, perhaps because of what happened in Soliders of Light (being a good townie/making many people angry).

I am almost sure the mafia don might be inactive because Grthwllms was killed and he had 5 bullets for 5 people. I don't know who this is, but if I were the mafia I would have gone for a talkative contributing person.

I don't have a solid idea for any of the other roles.

I'll hold off my vote untill I see what other people have to say.

[CallmePrismatic]

Hmm...

Vigilante went after TWG who was saved by the doctor. Doesn't completely absolve him from all suspicion, but I think he's on a more town-affiliated gradient based on the little evidence so far. What this does show, without a shadow of a doubt, is that the Vigilante doesn't recognize the 'may' clause. Just for the record Mr(s). Vig - You DON'T have to kill. The Doctor shouldn't have to use all his luck protecting townies from the Vigilante.

So did both the reporter AND the serial killer target Inbred, hence why the newspaper details the dead?

Anyways...

Vote: Mesden. That's my placeholder until evidence shows up for a real vote, but Mesden has been anti-townie in most (if not all?) of the games so far so we can't be too careful. Think of it as a throwaway joke instead of a true-feeling, all ye who would use this to wrongly crucify me.

[Mesden]

Vote: Mesden. That's my placeholder until evidence shows up for a real vote, but Mesden has been anti-townie in most (if not all?) of the games so far so we can't be too careful. Think of it as a throwaway joke instead of a true-feeling, all ye who would use this to wrongly crucify me.

For the "(If not all?)". Yes, I have NEVER been on the good side, even when I had a choice of good or evil.

So, to return the favor, I will refer everyone to my top post just so I don't have to make the argument again.

[Major Blood]

Just quickly saying something before my next class, Since CmP is such a good player, i don't think anyone should randomly throw their vote at him unless you have a good reason too. So i think we should keep him alive until he starts showing signs of scummyness.

[CallmePrismatic]

Throwaway joke. JOKE.

Although, would you mind explaining/clarifying this ditty...
Atleast the SK hit a townie as well as the other killing role and not something more important.The SK can only hit one thing, and its never good to hit a townie. I know you might mean something like "At least he didn't hit the PO/Doc/Reporter", but losing ANY Town-aligned player is automatically bad, even if they're Vanilla.

[Mesden]

Throwaway joke. JOKE.

Although, would you mind explaining/clarifying this ditty...
The SK can only hit one thing, and its never good to hit a townie. I know you might mean something like "At least he didn't hit the PO/Doc/Reporter", but losing ANY Town-aligned player is automatically bad, even if they're Vanilla.

Of coures, but, I said at least. The SK WAS going to hit something, and a Townie is the least of the negatives we could lose.(Aside from a townie with a bad role, I guess. If we have one.)

And, I could've sworn the reporter was a self alligned. What would be so bad if he died? Sure, his power can kill mafiates, but, it does the same for our roles until he is the last left.

So, yes, I meant what you interpretted it as, but, what was with the reporter support?

[Fenris]

Yeah, but if the Reporter nails all the baddies right away, then he can't win, because all of the non-civilians have to die for him/her to win, although if it is just him and civilians, both parties win.

Right now, we really have nothing to go on, so I'm witholding a vote for now. We might get lucky on the first day if a mafiate foolishly sticks his or her neck out, so it might be better to wait a bit.

[CallmePrismatic]

I'm sorry if I still appear confuzzled, but I guess I don't have an easy time subscribing to the mentality usually associated with grizzled old guys in post apocalypses. The "Well at least we have the people that matter"-mentality is always a dangerous mindset to assume, because soon (and in these games never usually doesn't come up) the people that didn't 'really' matter are all gone and the mafia has a majority hold of the population. Basically, every Town-aligned person matters.

I see the reporter as more pro-town than pro-mafia. He isn't truly an independant entity because he wins with us, not alone. Despite how the wording paints it, its in the best interest of the reporter to help the town win.

[Sithdarth]

Hmmm, Mesden's got a point there. I do believe the reporter doesn't have a choice on if he/she wants to report the results of an investigation, at least that's what I gathered from Newb's description. The reporter's power is great but it can hurt the town. This is possibly why there his no mention of the reporter being town aligned in the description. In fact:

Reporter, which few of you will recognize, is on a side of his own.

and he wins when all the special roles are dead. At least that's how I read Newb's description.

[Thundergod Cid]

As you can see, Reporter, which few of you will recognize, is on a side of his own. He wins when all that's left is himself and civilians. Like the detective, he investigates, but unlike the detective, his investigations are published and delivered to everybody's front steps.

Now, the reporter is odd in that the town can still win if he is alive, despite having different win conditions from the town.

The town just needs to get rid of the mafiates and the killer to win.

The Reporter is not town-aligned. However, the town does not need to kill him to win, and he could potentially help the town in killing the mafia and serial killer. To me, it seems like the reporter isn't really a threat to the town as long as the vig, doctor, and detective are alive.

[Mesden]

I've been informed that the reporter can win WITH the town, given the circumstances. But, he's still TECHNICALLY a threat as he has a dangerous powered and STILL has to kill our best advantages.

CmP, I know EXACLTY how you feel. But, if the SK was going to hit a townie, it is, and you can't really disagree with me, BEST for him to hit a regular townie.

In NO way did I mean it was a good thing in general, but, sorry to say, I'd rather have our PO than IC right now.

[secretskull]

The reporter can help the town by unearthing mafia members. Yet he can also hurt the town by doing the same to the town-aligned roles. Also, by revealing who is a vanilla townie, he eliminates potential people who have "Special" roles. It could be said that the reporter hurts us more then he helps, so we shouldn't think to highly of him just because we don't lose if when he wins and vice-versa. Enough discussing him for now though, we should be concentrating on killing Mes… I mean discovering the mafia. Yes that’s right, discovering the mafia. Note: The end was a joke

[Bailey]

Mes speaks truth on what I said.

The Reporter can win and still have the town win, but he might not be worth the bother, depending on hiw you look at it.

The reporter is like the wacky sidekick in an adventure movie.

Does the wacky sidekick need to live for the goodguy to win?

No, but if he is still alive, it doesn't directly stop the goodguy from winning.

[Mesden]

SecretSkull, I'll just go out and say now, had I not quoted your post and saw the invisa text, I'd be making an anti you post right now.

Invisatext=REALLY REALLY bad in this game.

[Fenris]

Yeah. It's almost as bad as deleting a post. Which I learned the hard way.

[CallmePrismatic]

I thought it was a good joke and I didn't even notice the invisi-text, but then again I'm not the one being joshed around.

Unvote: Mesden

There, no sad eyes or needlessly mean words neccesary now.

Anyways, Reporter is hovering between being a nuisance and quasi-informer now, setting him more toward the nuetral side (I didn't get the "only the title-less need survive" sentiment) but we're still spending too much time focusing on him.

[Patrat]

*Awakes from his sleep*
Oh my, it seems that i've been asleep for a legenthed period of time, and it is now daytime. Dane Cook may put that as, I just had a nice little coma.
Whilst catching upon the conversation i realised this. Couldn't the reporter simply state himself, and if he did, as long as the doctor guarded him, the town would have an extreeeme advantage? Thats my two cents anyway, as for now I am forced to believe SK is a clar and present danger. Why? She is Inbred's direct relative. And sibling rivalry is not an unknown tangent in games such as this. Furthermore, if Sk had accidently slipped information to Inbred, which is highly possible as they live together, he would be the only one would would be able to say anything about it. Thus, is a prime target.
Again, thats just my two cents.
Vote: Silly Kitty

[Mesden]

Pat, one, the Reporter is NOT town alligned and once he finsihed the mafia, there's no saying we wouldn't lynch him.

And what if he hit our doctor?...

Second, I trust both of them as players to not convey information. They're both mature enough to follow rules to a game. They did so in mine, as if SK HAD conveyed knowledge, IC would have hit a LOT more targets.

So, off of this petty point and the faux statement for the reporter, I'll have to SERIOUSLY FOS: Patrat

[Thundergod Cid]

*Awakes from his sleep*
Oh my, it seems that i've been asleep for a legenthed period of time, and it is now daytime. Dane Cook may put that as, I just had a nice little coma.
Whilst catching upon the conversation i realised this. Couldn't the reporter simply state himself, and if he did, as long as the doctor guarded him, the town would have an extreeeme advantage? Thats my two cents anyway, as for now I am forced to believe SK is a clar and present danger. Why? She is Inbred's direct relative. And sibling rivalry is not an unknown tangent in games such as this. Furthermore, if Sk had accidently slipped information to Inbred, which is highly possible as they live together, he would be the only one would would be able to say anything about it. Thus, is a prime target.
Again, thats just my two cents.
Vote: Silly Kitty

1. Anyone can say that they're the reporter. They'd have to prove it to the town in order to get protection.

2. The reporter isn't on the town's side.

3. That's a really flimsy reason for voting, IMO. But, then again, just about anything we come up with on day 1 is bound to be flimsy...

[Bailey]

I've been asked a question.

You may claim both your role and your personality if you so wish.

Just so you know though, it's just that.

A claim.

You may need to prove it somehow.

EDIT:

Also, if you can think of a way to do so, try to make your claim in character.

Not for any real reason, just that if you're coming forwards and telling everybody what your role is, you may as well play it.

Go ahead and ignore everything in this edit if you like.

Including the part about ignoring it.

So, you know, you would be...

Yeah, too convoluted.

Carry on!

[Truce]

I've decided, with my psychic abilities, that Ogianres has a role. I'm not sure what role, but he has a role.

Trust me.

[Ogianres]

Actually, I have a personality. It isn't too useful sometimes, but it can be. You see, I can't help it, I'm extremely nosy. I like to know what other people are doing. At night, I spy on people. If anybody is doing anything to somebody else, I will know. I can tell when somebody is heading towards someone else's house, but I can only tell who's being targeted. Like last night, I saw a shadowy figure heading to TWG's house, and someone else tailing them. Some things I notice can be helpful, but not all. It's kind of like the death scene where it may include a clue or red herring.
Anyways, I can't see anyone being suspicious right now, but I will keep my eye on things. Especially you Mesden. That's right, I read the other games [/joking].

[Bailey]

Ecurt, if ever I see you on the lurk page, you will recieve an official warning.

Don't let it happen again.

That said, if you're sending me something game related, go invisible.

I'm staying invisible the entire time this game is running.

[catlover20410]

Ok, just because of history, I Vote:Mesden.

If he/she isn't an antitownie now, he/she will be later.

...Wait, is there a cult in this game?

[Truce]

Well, well, well. Newb has chosen to accuse me of cheating in the game. He has accused me of sinking so low as to PM Watch.

I quit.

Have a nice game, everyone.

[Mesden]

Awwwwwh, not Ecurt. And Newb, saying someone cheated just because they accuse someone is not a basis. He COULD have been trying to get the game riled.

Sucks that he left and one of our people were made into revealing their "Personality".

Anyhow, Catlover, Um....What can I say? I don't think I'll be recruited? You're killing me for POSSIBLE future outcome?

*Cough* BS *Cough*

[Thundergod Cid]

Ok, just because of history, I Vote:Mesden.

If he/she isn't an antitownie now, he/she will be later.

...Wait, is there a cult in this game?

There is no cult. Newb said so in the first post.

[The Wandering God]

Well, here comes someone who should have died.

Again. >.>

Seriously, Vig, did you have a grudge against me from the last game or what?

Or is the Vig one of the roles that Newb had to random roll? (Something tells me he won't spill the beans though.)

Anyway, Ecurt, are you really going to quit? I'd rather you didn't. And Newb, if you want to warn someone DO IT IN A PM. Making it public is a major faux pas and embarassing.

That said, there does seem to be a disturbing trend of past special roles getting killed on the first night. I don't know how I feel about this. But it seems the mafia killed one of the newbies. Sad that :(

As for who is responsible for what, I'll wait a little bit and see how things unfold.

And I'll try not to piss too many people off.

The Wandering God

[Major Blood]

Ok, just because of history, I Vote:Mesden.

If he/she isn't an antitownie now, he/she will be later.

...Wait, is there a cult in this game?

Thats a pretty flimsy argument. Just because she has never been a town alligned role dosen't mean she dosen't have one now. Thats like accusing DarthMauler64 of being mafia because he was a mafiate in my .hack//MAFIA game.

[CallmePrismatic]

Well, well, well. Newb has chosen to accuse me of cheating in the game. He has accused me of sinking so low as to PM Watch.

I quit.

Have a nice game, everyone.
Please tell me this is an overblown action as a joke.

If it isn't, let me defend Newb's 'accusation', as a former GM: (Precedent:) Many claims and admissions to PM-watching have been tossed around since Mafia has been introduced to this forum, which is understandable because some people quickly realized the power that the Who's Online page held. (Relation to your situation:) You come out of no where and use the phrase 'psychic' powers, and then say something vague like "I don't know what role, but I know he has one", knowledge one could gain by watching the Who's Online list and noting whoever happened to Private Message Newb. There's a big difference between random 'conversation-riling' accusations and implicit nudgings toward a no-no act.

If this is a 'joke', let me clarify a good rule of thumb: Don't make non-explicit jokes at the GM's expense, and never make 'jokes' that call into question the integrity of the person who's giving of their time to provide a game experience.

Anyways, that aside, my little Mesden joke seems to be exploding into actual, and unearned, hostility towards HER (trust me, Mesden is a she). IF YOU ONLY HAVE PAST GAMES TO GO ON, DON'T VOTE MESDEN.

FOS: Patrat, and mini-FOS: catlover. I'll level an FOS at myself for igniting this Mesden-phobia, but I believe that people who vote Mesden right now are either doing it as a joke (too soon?) or because of me (definetely too stupid at this point). Patrat however came outta nowhere and I'm going to need an explanation beyond 'sibling rivalry'.

[Mesden]

Thanks for the defense CmP, but, I'll take the TWG route and ask for NO ONE to ever defend me.

Also, it's not the fact that newb warned Ecurt, it's that he basically CONFIRMED Ecurt's accusation in public a bit too hastily. Ecurt got LUCKY with that call, as he's barely ever on line enough TO PM watch.

And, yes, I DO happen to be of the female sex. Thanks for pointing that out?

Also, I do ask for people to refrain from accusing me of being scum for past occurences. It's not grounds for when the GM does it randomly. So, seriously, lighten the hell up over CmP's little joke.

[Truce]

I will say this one more time: I quit.

If he was simply suspicious and confronted me about it in PM, I wouldn't have minded because then I could sort things out with him, but he had instantly judged that the only way a hunch could be correct is if I PM watched. Newb automatically assumed I cheated, and indeed felt that he should warn me in public.

I didn't cheat, and quite frankly, I'm offended by that type of outright accusation. If you think I'm questioning the integrity of Newb, realize that he decided I had none.

I don't want to play a game run by someone who did that to me.

[CallmePrismatic]

Yeah, I always forget that clause. What I was trying to convey was "Don't follow a joke".

I'll admit, I was scrolling through the thread, saw Ecurt's post, and automatically presumed PM-watching. It was his wording really, saying that you 'psychically' know somebody has a role just screams of PM-watching, plus the fact that he didn't give any reason not to rule out the 'sinking'.

Still waiting on Patrat's response.

[Bailey]

You quit?

Very well.

Ecurt, the Normal Civilian has left the game.

EDIT: Two things.

I would have accused anybody in that situation.

The PM which I believe Ecurt intercepted was in fact one asking for a rule clarification.

[Patrat]

Meh, I must quit as well.
I have very limited internet acess, only being able to post at most once a day.
I'm also not very good at this game, which could contribute to my very flimsy arguement. It was more of a random guess then anything, though I WOULD have had a report on her during the next turn.
:P
Until I am able to have full access back to this, I must bid my farewell.
~Patrat

[Bailey]

Insightful Reporter Patrat has left the game.

A civilian will recieve his role tonight.

[CallmePrismatic]

So Ecurt intercepted a PM not meant for him and was about to use that knowledge in game? I won't shed a tear for that.

So, we're down a townie and the Reporter* is now shifted around. We're back at square one, except we now know that someone has the ability to watch Night actions, with a small degree of comprehensibility. Gotcha.

* Patrat, if you want a chance to get more attuned with the game, Inexperienced Mafia is in the sign-up stages, and I'm pretty sure it won't move too fast with only 8 people.

[Silly Kitty]

While I was gone I got voted for, and two people left. Fun!

Just to clear something up, I like my brother and have never had "sibling rivalry" with him. We get along. That is all.

[CrazyBen]

Well, it doesn't look like we have anything to really lynch someone for yet, so I'm gonna vote we keep our ropes locked up today.

Vote: No Lynch

[Thundergod Cid]

Well, it doesn't look like we have anything to really lynch someone for yet, so I'm gonna vote we keep our ropes locked up today.

Vote: No Lynch

Because we'll have more to base our vote off of tomorrow? A No Lynch really isn't ever a good idea. All we do then is sit around while the Mafia and Serial Killer take out innocents. Lynching is the town's biggest weapon, we shouldn't just throw it away.

[secretskull]

There was a quite nice thing explaining why No Lynching is a bad thing. It had percentages and everything. I don't know where it is exactly, but someone will probably bring it up soon. The point being is that that the only way the town can gain more evidence, (aside from the reporter and detective) is by accusing people and watching their reactions. For example: I'm accusing you right now. Tell why I shouldn't think you’re scum with your No Lynch vote.
Vote: CrazyBen

[catlover20410]

Sheesh.

Fine, Unvote:Mesden

Honestly, though, Mesden getting a townrole would be like the Onion Kid living happily ever after. Ain't gonna happen.

Dammit, I don't even have something like a mis-speech to go on. Dammit, Mafiates, act like mafiates!

[Mesden]

No it isn't. I have the same chance as everyone else to get the same rules and any other remark implies rigging by the GM.

Anyhow, I DID get a non evil role before in Berserk mafia. I just became instantly evil again! ^^

[h4x.m4g3]

Sorry I'm late, sporadic internet and constantly moving between me and my friend's house since school got out.

Vote: No lynch
Why No lynching can be a good thing:
The odds, with 2 townies dead, and 2 quit (since the reporter's position is filled by a townie, its the same as having a townie leave) the odds are currently, 14:7 or 2:1 of lynching an innocent or town alligned (vig, doc.). 14 out of the 21 players are town alligned that means we have a 2/3 chance (for those who prefer probability to odds).

And no one is acting particullarly scummy or suspicious.

We'll have better odds and more suspicions tommorow (reporter and another failed hit means we know who's innocent or not.)

[CallmePrismatic]

First, it's never good to no lynch, not on the first day, not ever. We shouldn't look at it like a "Well, we've got nothing to go on so let's do nothing", it's rings more loudly like "I don't want to upset anybody so I'm going to give the Night-Killers a free pass".

Voting No Lynch doesn't allow us to fast forward in an effort to find clues, because Night doesn't provide more clues, just more corpses. You want to know the odds that someone will die at the mafiates or SK's hands tonight if we lynch someone. 1:1. If we don't lynch? 1:1. We'll only have better odds because more people will have died (and hopefully the Vig won't be so trigger happy toNight).

Also, we aren't guarunteed another 'failed hit'. The Doctor and a Night Killer targetting the same person on the same Night are rare, not expected. And, sorry TWG, a person being saved by the Doctor doesn't automatically mean they're innocent, just that he was randomly chosen by two conflicting roles. TWG, and everybody else, should be viewed with an equal amount of suspicion.

[Silly Kitty]

For all of you voting no lynch, I got jumped for doing that in SOL mafia. I wouldn't recommend it. People will just think you are scummy even if you are not.

[P-Sleazy]

Silly Kitty, were'nt you the PO in SOL mafia? You did a pretty damn good job as did the body guard and basically everyone. That was my first and thus far, BEST game of Mafia I've played.

Firstly, a giant FOS onto CrazyBen and h4xm4g3 for No Lynching. Odds will always be better for us to lynch. ALWAYS. we lynch tonight and the killing roles kill, were down 4 people (1 each for town lynch, mafia, vig, and Serial Killer). and 3 of those kills might be a mafia kills since the mafia only controls 1 kill among 5 people, and the other 3 people are not alligned with the mafia and know now who the mafia is and may kill them too. It even benefits the SK to kill mafia as well for if the mafia gets half the town population, mafia wins and SK loses.

Secondly, Mesden not to follow CMP but because of the following reasoning. You jumped the gun BEFORE anyone even made the crack at you being evil again. You outright said that you dont want us voting for you for past history, which we later had a crack made about it (by CmP), but you kept refering to that as your defense. This seems like you're trying to get us to look at you as an evil role or even any role and an easy way for you to digress votes that could possibly lynch you, evil or not. But its because you did it before the crack was made that makes me suspicious that you are trying to get out of it because of jokes made in previous games.

VOTE: Mesden

[Mesden]

Or, you know, because CmP said he would and my luck at being an evil role needed addressing earlier rather than later.

You know, so I didn't have to wait for the obvious accusation that would lead the game off. I like to handle things quickly, B_Real and saying I'm worth a vote BECAUSE I defend a VERY VERY likely occurence is a bit asinine.

And, let's turn the tables around a bit here. You seem to want me gone. No one else has a problem with me handling the obvious problem from the gate, but you're trigger happy enough to actually cast a vote so prematurely instead of accuse me and then wait for my reply before determining I'm guilty or not. You automatically assume that I'm scum off you accusation without giving me a chance to counteract.

Hastiness to vote before the other viewpoint can even explain why begs the question, why so quick to vote, B_Real? Want to get rid of someone fast? What's that say about you? Serial Killer? Aggresive Mafiate maybe? Or, mistaken and a bit rash townie?

I'll let the others decide and leave this at a strong FOS: B_Real_Shadows for acting a bit too rash to vote.

My experience from .Hack Mafia showed that a powerful vote at the beginning can help with townie eliminations. So, I suspect you more than anyone right now, B_real. Since this could be very similar to my ploy in that afformentioned game. (Seems my tendencies are popular, no?)

Edit: GRAMMAR!

[Fenris]

Mesden, I think you're being a bit extreme. I'm guessing that he's just trying to connect the dots and we don't have many dots to go on at this point.

B_real, on the other hand, I think you're being a bit hasty. Instead of merely jumping to conclusions based on past experiences that have no direct effect on this game, why don't you ask Mesden why she defended herself before she was accused of anything? It sends the same message without the ill connotations that you're sending.

My two cents.

On the Mesden guilt issue: I see no proof on her negative or positive alignment. My opinion is that I need more information before making a decision.

[Major Blood]

If you're wondering about the deleted post, it was cause i posted it in the wrong thread.

[The Wandering God]

This sucks. We just lost two more townies. (Yeah, I'm aware of how the reporter works, but if you look at it one way, even if the reporter ID'd the Police Officer or Vig, then the Doc could cover them. Of course, if the doc is revealed...)

Anyway, it's kind of a Catch-22 isn't it? We need to vote for someone. (I agree, no lynching is gnodab.)

But voting for someone draws suspicion to the the first person who votes. (The finger pointer.)

However, the mafia would have to be extremly stupid (or have a member who doesn't want to cooperate), to throw around votes this early in the game.

Of course, they could be using reverse psychology, but then things get too complicated.

What I'm trying to say is, don't immediately think someone is scummy for voting for someone else. At the very least, they are in fact playing this game, and are willing to risk the attention to get things moving.

Hmmmmm.

Although I do wonder why h4x said, "(reporter and another failed hit means we know who's innocent or not.)"

How do you know the doc will choose correctly in the coming night?

The Wandering God

[h4x.m4g3]

Perhaps I worded my statement wrong before. What I meant by 'another failed hit letting us know who's innocent' is that we know who was attacked without losing a townie, and by the way Newb describes the attempted attacks we know what they are not. I.E. based on what happened last night I know TWG isn't Vig, because he was attacked by the Vig-"I detect evil". I have no ideal what his role is, but I'm begining to eliminate possibilities of what he is. As for the reporter isn't that his job description, pick somebody and report the role, night activity to all via the GM?

As for the no lynching sucking, it does, I know this, but there are situations when it could be valueable, and this seems like one of those times. The mafia wins by being half the population, if we kill another townie we're pushing them to that goal, not away. Is there a chance we could guess right, yes. I posted the mathematical odds earlier. But its still guessing. Odds are I won't be voting no lynch, because odds are by the time for the final vote tally someone will have given me a good reason to hang them (and no I don't believe in hanging someone just for accusing/voting me, accuse all you want.)

[Mesden]

Mesden, I think you're being a bit extreme. I'm guessing that he's just trying to connect the dots and we don't have many dots to go on at this point.

Of course he's trying to connect the dots. But those dots are leading to my accusations.

See, I'm just relating his actions to the .Hack game, the one I committed. I think of myself as a fairly good mafiate player(Both games I was mafia, the mafia won, with my plan.) and taking these variations of play isn't something to be ruled out and to my eye could offer a bit of suspicion.

But, if I were extreme, I would have voted for him. I'm siding with rash townie or mafiate, so, with the 50% chance of it to be the former, I only FOS'd.

Also, exetremity is a good thing most of the time in this game. It gets the point across and you need to do that. MoM wasn't head forward with his PO posts and that hurt the town more than it could've helped.

[catlover20410]

Mesden, your overreaction to B_real's accusations make me very suspicious.

Revote:Mesden.

[The Wandering God]

Mesden, your overreaction to B_real's accusations make me very suspicious.

Revote:Mesden.
The hell? "Overreacting"? She just FoS'd him.

And now I'm going to FoS:Catlover20410 for voting, unvoting, THEN VOTING again for the same person.

Seriously, this reeks of you having a grudge.

The Wandering God

[Sithdarth]

Ok because I know all you guys love lists I gots me one:

Inactive players(as of this post)

Supreme Edgemaster
Pos_Industries
sk3l3t0n
Neyo the King
The Wizard Who Did It
Big Mac

Now being innactive isn't very indicitive of anything in and of its self. However, if no clear choices for lynching emerge I'd rather run with someone that's not contributing. They have the same chance of being a townie, or not, as anyone else. The key difference is they aren't helping us in anyway. Mafiates, usually, implicate themselves and townies are helpful, generally. The SK can be a bit harder to ferret out but he/she will slip up at some point. Thus I am reserving my vote until such time as I have a strong feeling about someone. Failing that, assuming that I'm awake, towards the end of the deadling I will pick at random from those still innactive for my vote.

[Mesden]

Well, I know for a fact that POS and Twid have limited internet service as of now.

POS is in the midst of moving and is trying to get restore his internet service so, as far as I know.

And Twiddy is lacking in the service until sometime later this week.

So, if you want to eliminate players sheerly out of inactivity, I'd have to go with Twid and POS.

If you want sheer lack of activity without a reason, then Neyo or SE, as SE did sign up for another game recently and Neyo was on AIM a bit earlier.

[Sithdarth]

Hmm indeed that would make sense. Of course inactivity is still inactivity regardless of reason. Although, with a chance of coming back I would place Twiddy and Pos at the bottom of the kill list. That is unless the ones without reason show up, or get killed off and Twiddy and Pos still aren't back. As you said its best to speak in exteremes and if you aren't part of the solution, or the problem in this case, your just dead weight and have to go.

[Bailey]

While Neyo was on earlier, it was to state that he had forgotten he had signed up, mention that he was on hiatus, and request that he be dropped. His vigilante role will be given to somebody else. Or possibly not. I'll send both freefloating roles through a random generator, with them landing on nobody as a valid option.

[CrazyBen]

Unvote: No Lynch

Yeah, I was really tired when I did that, and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Oh, and secretskull? Don't bother voting against me, you know I'm too adorable to kill <3.

To help analyze some of the facts of the night's killings, so you can comment on that, for the mafia one, we need to find someone who maybe has some connection to the number 5 (why would you fire five shots, when, to my knowledge, just about any gun around is going to have a minimum of 6 shots?). Maybe they were the fifth person to sign up, or are a big fan of fithfiend. And for the SK, that was some sick stuff, so we should be trying to look for a phycopath. Maybe an official, adorable one...

Also, while it was probably just some good-natured kidding, we should scrutinize CmP for trying to implicate Mesden right off the bat. It could be a joke, or it could be a Mafiate trying to trick us by starting a joke guaranteed to grow out of proportions. I'm not saying we should lynch him, just that maybe the reporter (when we have one) should put him at the top of the investigate list.

[P-Sleazy]

All I know is that the inactives usually end up NOT being mafiates because in the previous games I've played, particularily Incedius' game, the mafia was basically the only people who were left contributing in day posts and such, or atleast 3 of them were, and I'm assuming that the other 2 were there too.

Mesden, you seriously overreacted to my vote, and that draws a hellovalot of suspicious towards you from me. You seemed to go WAY overboard in trying to defend yourself, much more than was needed.

Catlover, you voted for Mesden for basically the same reason I still suspect Mesden, her overblown reaction to my vote for her.

Crazyben, the worst time to play this game is at night, since thats where all the killing roles outside the townie lynch are. And a no lynch, seriously, worst thing to do.




I'm going to show the chances of killing a mafiate here with a lynch, vig, and SK. with actual numbers and not just saying, "its better to lynch"

there are 21 players left. 5 of which is the mafia, and 1 is the serial killer so thats 6 threats to the town. THe town has the Vig, PO, doctor and Reporter (I hope I'm not forgetting anyone) for a total of 4 roles pro-town. that leaves 11 vanilla townies in the game.

Now we know the Mafia is going to kill the 1 player, that player could be the SK too, so the odds of them hitting any given person is 1/16 or 6.25% (SK and vigilante is this too), Town role is 4 in 16 or 25%, and vanilla townie is 11 in 16 or 68.75%

The serial killer and vigilante each dont know who is who so the odds of them hitting eachother is 1 in 20 (they cant hit themselves) or 5%, odds of hitting a Townie role (PO, Doc, VIG, Reporter) are 4 in 20 or 20% and the odds of hitting a mafiate is 5 in 20 or 25% and finally hitting a vanilla townie is 55%

And the odds of the town lynching a vanilla townie are 11 in 21 or 52.3%,for lynching a mafiate 5 in 21 or 23.8%, lynching a townie role is 4 in 21 or 19%.

So given that, we have 3 chances that one of those 4 killing chances will any of the three night roles, with odds being greatest on the mafiate (5 of the 7 night killers and 5 of the 20 (21 for town) total town members.

Correct me if my math is wrong here but the odds of having atleast ONE of those 3 hitting a mafiate is done like this [1-(.75 X .75 X .762)]=.571375 or 57% chance of having ONE of those three killings to be a mafiate kill. thats OVER half. but thats also a .428625 or 42.8% chance of not hitting a mafiate at all with all 3 of those roles. *

Chance of hitting a townie role is 4 chances (except vigilante, his odds are going to be slightly different and wont bother doing) are found like this. [1-(.8 X .8 X .75 X.81)]=.6112 or 61.12% chance of having one of the 4 killing roles killing a townie role. *

*for the statistics part here, I calculated the chance of all 3 missing and then subtracted that from 1 to find the chance of atleast 1 hitting.

for now, my vote stays on Mesden.

[Mesden]

You said I overreacted. That seems to be a fairly popular statement since it was first used. It'd be a bit more convincing had you said it in the first place and not followed the lead of someone else.

Also, you say I'm overreatcing. I'll tell you how I'm not.

1: I only FOS'd you. I'm really not sure about your allignment(The same goes for everyone else) and therefore I only pointed at you. Not condemned you from the gate as you seemed to eb doing to me.

2: How DO you overreact to someone flimsly voting for you? Especially off the basis of that "You defended yourself to early from an accusation that was guaranteed to come up."

3: I used logic of comparing your actions to past occurences. It's not unheard of, doing something that worked for someone else. I didn't say that's exactly what you were doing, just a possibility. S'why I put everything in question form and not blunt statements the same way you did.

4: I'm overreacting in defense of myself. You were overreacting to the fact THAT I defended myself. Even if it was premature, you know for a FACT that it was going to come up, so I stated my point on the fact earlier so I didn't have to make it with my mind bias against someone voting for me.

So, want another reason? I still haven't voted for you and I don't intend to yet. You just seem to come off as proven wrong and are trying to justify it with the word "Overreacting." which is completely an opinion to begin with. Some people might think I didn't stress the issue enough and be more extreme than what I did.

Soooooooooooooooooo, follow B_Real's opinion or follow my reasons. Since this is the catalyst for the game so far, as I knew anything I did would be. Me being an active player with that history and all.

[P-Sleazy]

and if you were a mafiate? would you have reacted any differently?

[Ogianres]

FOS: B_Real
I believe that Mesden's pre-defense was somewhat appropriate, considering her record for being the scum. Even if I did find it suspicious, I'd only put on a FOS due to that not neccesarily being a scum tell. I think B_Real's vote was jumping the gun, but I don't believe that he is scum.

and if you were a mafiate? would you have reacted any differently?
I believe that Mesden has enough experience as mafia to not get nervous and say something like that if she were scum.
VOTE: Catlover
I considered just FOS'ing him, but I believe his votes had very little reasoning, and I think he may be trying to get a bandwagon started. In fact, getting a bandwagon on Mesden would not only be easy, but if she is lynched and is townie, then it's easier to make it look like an honest mistake.

Note: I am a little tired and some of things I'm saying are a teeny bit dis-jointed.

[catlover20410]

Look, the reason I tend to throw around votes with little evidence is to see what reaction I get. This game is, to me at least, about judging people's reactions to things. You can't judge reactions if there's nothing to react TO, now can you?

[Mesden]

Well, Mr.Catlover, I've already given my reactions thoroughly.

You haven't judged any of my reasons by the by.

Also, Ogianres, I appreciate the help, but again, I want my own defense.

Now, B_Real, what's this "If you were mafia?"? That sounds like you know I'm not or atleast don't think it. I will wholeheatedly say that no matter my allignement, I would have stated that defense earlier and responded with an FOS on you because of your rush to vote.

I honestly wouldn't have even FOS'd you if you would have only FOS'd me. As those are just saying, "I want a reason for why you did [Insert event here]."

But no, you are rash enough to cast a death ballot towards me over an opinion. From what I can tell, few people had a problem with me stating my defense against the most obvious starting point in the game early. Also, only a couple believe that I was rash to act against your vote when I only FOS'd and stated what COULD be happening, not what was happening.

Now you and Catlover seem to have it out for me quite hastily, considering everyone elses reaction to this event. Either you both think I'm mafia, one thinks I am and the other wants to push the issue more, you both want to push the issue or you're both mafia. There's the small possibility that one is the SK trying to bandwagon and cause a snowball, but, again, that's the least likely.

Now, my reactions were stated quite clearly after your post, B_Real. I gave numerous reasons and I've explained everything thoroughly. I'm hoping you won't keep this up just off your opinion.

Would you have thought I was being rash if you weren't the one being FOS'd? Others seem to think it was a perfectly calm reaction. I know being semi accused can be a bit agitating, but you're still voting me for "Jumping the Gun." on the MOST obvious occurence that was sure to happen.

I'd suggest you give a better reason, or all you're doing is trying to force a bandwagon on me.

Maybe it's because I'm a good player and the mafia wants me gone sooner rather than later? Maybe you wholeheartedly think that me being defensive early on makes me mafia, even though, given the circumstances, I still don't see how that was a faulty and overly soon action.

Now, B_real, what's it going to be? Vote for me SOLELY off your opinion of someone being hasty or remove the vote after hearing my multiple accounts on the situation?

Right now, I believe CmP, TWG and Ogianres to be agreeing with me and Catlover to be agreeing with you. Now, this could be all 4 of us working as mafia, but is that worth the risk? Or, this could be only two(You and Cat) working to bring down a strong player? But, are you so rash as to do it in the manner at hand?

I'll let the others decide, because I'm off to go play Maple Story for a while.

[P-Sleazy]

But thats the thing, you are such a strong player. If you hadn't been in the mafia, the mafia would have taken you out on the first night from fear of you being too much help to town knowing all the ins and outs of the mafia. But they havent. The SK and Vig didn't go after maybe because of the hope you were a townie, and hoped to have you help them target the mafiates later on in the game, and just counting on the odds of you being 1 of the 20(or 19 in the Vig and SK's case) who are not mafia aligned.

and good job on catching onto the "If you were mafia?" part. I am not completely convinced of your being a mafiate. But as of now, you're the best candidate to receive my vote. Second is Catlover.

[catlover20410]

Right now, I believe CmP, TWG and Ogianres to be agreeing with me and Catlover to be agreeing with you. Now, this could be all 4 of us working as mafia, but is that worth the risk? Or, this could be only two(You and Cat) working to bring down a strong player? But, are you so rash as to do it in the manner at hand?


Hello thar miscount.

[Sithdarth]

Just like to say I don't think Mesden overreacted at all, however she expressed a desire not to be defended.

As for this:
But thats the thing, you are such a strong player. If you hadn't been in the mafia, the mafia would have taken you out on the first night from fear of you being too much help to town knowing all the ins and outs of the mafia. But they havent. The SK and Vig didn't go after maybe because of the hope you were a townie, and hoped to have you help them target the mafiates later on in the game, and just counting on the odds of you being 1 of the 20(or 19 in the Vig and SK's case) who are not mafia aligned.

No see your logic there is a little off to my estimation. If the Mafia wanted to hit the strongest player solely to get them out of the way they would have hit CmP. He clearly has the most expierence in Mafia. Also, no offense to Mesden, but her strength lies more with the evil side of the game. She seems to have a knack for sneaky underhanded manipulation. (Again no offense.) These are things that'll get you lynched as a townie, if only because your going it solo.

Now Mesden's considerable exprience with the Mafia could benefit us, so that's a plus. However, if knowing this the Mafia takes a very unusual or unorthodox approach that advantage is gone. In short Mesden isn't all that big of an asset to the town, rather she hasn't proven herself as that much of an asset just yet.

Now on the off chance she is a mafiate this seems a tad bit like a strategy she used before. By having a lot of semi-random cross voting between Mafiates to throw the town off. Normally you wouldn't think repeating a strategy would be good but in a game of finger pointing and paranoia it works. If I had to guess who would be the Mafiates in this plan I'd say they are Mesden and B_real. Being the strong player she is Mesden would know there would have to be strongish believable reasons for voting as purely random votes bring the town down on you. Catlover hasn't quite given good enough reasons as of yet to make me think he is in a complicated plot.

All that said I'm keeping an eye out but the person I'll probably be watching most of the three is B_real followed by Mesden and Catlover.

Edited to say:
Um CmP, TWG and Ogianres plus Mesden makes four. I fail to see any miscount aside from your own.

[Mesden]

Miscount? CmP, TWG, Ogianres and I. That's 4. Sorry, but I know how to count. If we were mafia, there would only be 4 of us working together.

And B_Real, TWG and IC are the other choices, both of them VERY good. IC's activity as the Vig was stupendous as well as TWG's playing in general.

Now, I know I'm a strong player, but maybe that's the reason they didn't pick me. Maybe they thought the Doctor would SURELY help me. Guess not, eh?

Now, I think that settles that thus far.

EDIT: wow, Sith's right, actually... I haven't done shit for the town...Ever...

[secretskull]

Sith is also right in another way. I'm finding B-real the most suspicious person so far. In fact, I would probably vote for B-real right now if it wasn't getting late, and I want to see his reaction before I make a make an unchangeable vote.

[CallmePrismatic]

EDIT: wow, Sith's right, actually... I haven't done shit for the town...Ever...
That's why it should have been a funny rib-poking jib to be giggled off, not the monstrosity it grew into.

Anyways, my game prowess hasn't really been shown too often because I don't think I've seen a Day 3*.

Right now I think I'm agreeing more with secretskull on the b_real v. catlover issue. B_real seems truly gungho on Mesden's death for some reason, while catlover looks like a newbie who's trying to emulate past games (both the 'miscount' and 'I lika da randa-vote' are two recent mafia occurences). Also, I don't like the "Well, since you weren't killed you must be mafia"-implication. I'm not ruling out reverse^mind-dizzying psychology, but that screams of a mafiate who actually planned for that option and is frustrated nobody's picked up on it.

*And whose fault is that I wonder? Do you people not realize that I'm the only reason mafia is around? Get it together people, you always need to let me live.

[P-Sleazy]

*And whose fault is that I wonder? Do you people not realize that I'm the only reason mafia is around? Get it together people, you always need to let me live.

you have no idea how much I want to vote for you for just that little comment. Letting you live? Thats basically giving you the game if you're a mafiate!

to Secret Skull, Aren't you already voting for someone? CrazyBen was it? Votes are always changing, unless you're saying that your current vote can't be changed either and that you will wait for tommorow before you vote for me.

[Sithdarth]

I assume he meant late as in he had to go somewhere and or sleep. Thus he didn't want to vote for you without being around to see how it turned out. There is also the possibilty his vote could potentially make the majority if something drastic happened while he was a way. So he didn't want to change his vote till he was more sure of you.

Note to self: Never use humour in a Mafia game it always backfires.

[Fenris]

B_real, I'm pretty sure he's joking.

I still don't know who to vote for, but I'm leaning towards catlover. He's been kinda flaky and despite his claim about trying to question people, I don't buy it. Also, accusing somebody of a miscount that didn't exist is kinda suspicious to me as well.

Catlover, explain yourself. Better.

[Silly Kitty]

Okay, I have just skimmed through this thing so far. Maple Story is taking up too much of my life, sorry.

Mes, I noticed you got on to B_Real about his voting early but did you get on to anyone else like you did him? If you have, I am sorry. I promise to read this whole thing tonight.

[Mesden]

Okay, I have just skimmed through this thing so far. Maple Story is taking up too much of my life, sorry.

Mes, I noticed you got on to B_Real about his voting early but did you get on to anyone else like you did him? If you have, I am sorry. I promise to read this whole thing tonight.


No, since their reasons were the same as his and applied to others as well.

Plus, Catlover is just being inane in my eyes and either B_Real already stated the reason or copied it.

So, since B_Real is leading the charge, I address him first and foremost.

EDIT: To include SK's quote due to Fenris's request. Sorry, I just answer fast and don't bother to quote.

[Fenris]

No, since their reasons were the same as his and applied to others as well.
Who are you talking to? This is merely a request to everybody, but would you try to quote who you're talking to to avoid any confusion?

EDIT: To thank Mesden for acknowledging my request.

[P-Sleazy]

well, this is good, all these people, being very suspicious of me but not quite ready to vote for me. It seems to me that either you're all in cahoots with eachother (all mafiates) or youre extremely weary townies. theres seems to be 5 of you, Mesden, Silly Kitty, CmP, Ogianres, and Sithdarth, who are suspicious. But none of you voted. Seems to me like youre trying to start up a bandwagon vote but dont want to be the one who throws the first stone to get it rolling.

Theres also more than one way to guage peoples reactions. Think on that for a while.

[Silly Kitty]

B_Real, how am I suspicious? What have I done?

well, this is good, all these people, being very suspicious of me but not quite ready to vote for me.

I haven't mentioned you once.

[CallmePrismatic]

B_Real, how am I suspicious? What have I done?

I haven't mentioned you once.
Mes, I noticed you got on to B_Real about his voting early but did you get on to anyone else like you did him? If you have, I am sorry. I promise to read this whole thing tonight.You mentioned his name, so he apparently took that as an accusation or something.

b_real, I think you just overplayed your hand. Of the five people you listed, the ones that knowingly 'accused' you I mean, the general tone was asking you to explain your actions.

But now you think we've backed you into a corner, even though the majority of us were lounging around on the sofa while you sat under the endtable and threw packing peanuts at us. When one of us mentions that the peanut-throwing was a bit odd you suddenly freak out, run to the corner, and start babbling that we're to blame. That is not how an innocent person handles confrontation.

Vote: B_real_shadows. I've made my case, but like I've said, I can be swayed if you change your mentality from gibbering to reasonable.

[P-Sleazy]

honestly CmP, did you even give that last statement of mine in my previous post some thought?

Theres also more than one way to guage peoples reactions. Think on that for a while.

It may enlighten you to a new perspective of playing this game.

As for Silly Kitty, I took her post as a way of saying she agrees with Mesden.

[Silly Kitty]

No, that was a post to question Mes. You know, because I was asking her a question. The question has nothing more to do with you than saying her argument started with you.

[P-Sleazy]

Ok, then, I remove Silly Kitty from that list, so that makes 4. And CmP, youre off since a mafiate isnt likely (if at all) to take the first vote on someone in a case like this. So now its 3. Mesden, Ogianres, and SithDarth.

[Sithdarth]

Ok, then, I remove Silly Kitty from that list, so that makes 4. And CmP, youre off since a mafiate isnt likely (if at all) to take the first vote on someone in a case like this. So now its 3. Mesden, Ogianres, and SithDarth.

That is unless of course in knowing that you know that he voted to throw you off. But then if he knew you knew that he would attempt to trick you by making the first vote then he wouldn't ect. This type of reasoning never leads anywhere at all. It is completely counter productive and great for causing delay.

Now that being said if this was some crazy Mafiate plot you placed two of the strongest players in it. (One just generally considered strong and the other a very good Mafiate.) Now with either of the two in the group something that seems such common knowledge as "Mafiates don't first vote bandwagons" would be well known by both. Thus, they would advise their fellows not to do that as it would raise suspicion.

Also, I'm not sure exactly where you got this "mafiates never vote first in a bandwagon". Of course if you were a Mafiate you might say that to throw us off your trail. Get enough people believing that and you look innocent because you had the stones to vote. That right there is a pretty decent reason for that to come out of nowhere. That's not to say you shouldn't be wary of me but picking apart your crazy logic I can't make sense of is hardly a reason to place me in a mafiate conspirecy.

[Silly Kitty]

Lists can be dangerous. In Sol Mafia Newb made a list of people he thought were mafia and gave it to the town. He in fact gave a list of one known mafia and a bunch of townies including the vig. By giving a list of people you find suspicious as to be mafia, you could be giving the mafia a list of people to hit.

[Mesden]

Ok, then, I remove Silly Kitty from that list, so that makes 4. And CmP, youre off since a mafiate isnt likely (if at all) to take the first vote on someone in a case like this. So now its 3. Mesden, Ogianres, and SithDarth.


Mafiates don't vote first? Complete and UTTER bullshit.

I'll refer you to both of the games where I was, indeed, Mafia. The mafia voted first a few times, actually.

See MB's game? I made the FIRST anti town vote. And won with it. I made the FIRST vote against a fellow mafiate. And won with it.

Want to spout this again? Because saying what a mafiate does when I, ME of all people, is like telling Bush how to be a dumbass(Please, no one get riled up over this.)

The mafiate votes first when they have a GOOD REASON. CmP pulled one up VERY well, I'm ashamed to say I didn't catch it before him. (Maple Quest owns my soul.)

Now, B_Real, keep pressing this BS. All it has done is made me INCREDIBLY suspicious of you to near voting edge. (I'm a conservative player mostly, as you can tell from my mafia strategy in the first game((Aside from me being rambunctious to get myself voted off)) and in the second, I was very stingy with my votes and only EVER voted for a mafiate, save IHMN((This was when I was the Cult Leader)).)

B_Real, you better think up SOMETHING real quick, because you are mere moments away from obtaining my vote.

[P-Sleazy]

well, so long as I die, I've left the town with the best thing I could do as a regular vanilla townie and that was giving you the odds on killing a mafiate in random kills. The most I can do after this is continue providing those odds but as I've given you the formula's for how each probability was found, you will be able to do that yourselves aswell now.

Only other thing I can do to help the town is my strategy for the game, which once given, my mode of playing this game will become somewhat clearer. But If I give it before I die, then evil shall know my plans!

[The Wandering God]

But If I give it before I die, then evil shall know my plans!

Tough.

The town is more important than any regular citizen. Yeah, I went there.

Because, it's, ya know, true.

If you can help the town, but it means you dying, then you should still do it. Don't let fear control your actions. It shouldn't be about your plans. Or mine. Or any regular townie (which we must assume everyone is, and then work from there. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.) No, what should be of supreme importance is helping the town's plans.

That said, of course, it could be a ruse to say, "Don't kill me, I can be very helpful." Which may or may not be true. Even regular townies can (and have/will) get other townies lynched.

It shouldn't be about one person. It should be a consensus. (As opposed to mob rule, domino effect, and bandwagoning, which lead to bad things.)

I still withhold my vote though.

Upon reflection, I'd say Catlover is the same as last time. A citizen with entirely too much zeal, and easily led at that. A dangerous weapon in the hands of a skilled mafiate manipulator. Or a nuisance.

But maybe not mafiate. Maybe not.

As to Mesden, I don't feel particulary one way or the other yet. Nothing she said has particulary struck me as innocent or guilty sounding. Merely very carefully worded. Take that as you may.

The Wandering God

[Ogianres]

I have to agree that Catlover is probably an overzealous townie. I've seen people act like that before. UNVOTE
However, I still find B_Real to be suspicious, and I think he deserves a confirm FOS.
I have a gut feeling about CmP and Mesden, but a gut feeling is never something I vote or give a serious FOS upon, but still-- Tiny FOS: CmP and Mesden

[Mesden]

Well, TWG is right on the most part. Also, thanks, I try to make my posts well worded and thought out.

Further more, I think that gut feeling is because of either how active we are, our intimidation as good players, or, then again, just a feeling.

For now, I'll address one thing.

Upon reflection, I'd say Catlover is the same as last time. A citizen with entirely too much zeal, and easily led at that. A dangerous weapon in the hands of a skilled mafiate manipulator. Or a nuisance.

Just because he acted one way in the last game, should not give him any special circumstances in this one. He could be using his past as a cover to allow aggressiveness, which being able to be unpunishably aggressive is a POWERFUL weapon for a Mafiate. I should know. I did it in .Hack Mafia.

Now, what occurs to me are two people. One, which I have already stated is B_Real. All the reasons are fairly obvious and I HOPE don't need repeating.

The other, which may come as a surprise from me, is CmP. At first, I thought well of him. But, in retrospect, I see his actions taking place off mine. Also, his influence matches and exceeds mine here and when pseudo working in my favor as he has, leads me to suspect that maybe he is trying to get a strong player(Me) to be friendly with him and take the brunt of the blow in case that B_Real is not mafia and is lynched.

Remember, just because he votes first doesn't mean a thing. Check Mafia SP. Neyo didn't vote first, but for all intents and purposes led the charge and voted later. Making him less conspicuous until pointed out (by me and Garud, the teaming cultists at that time) and later being found as a mafiate. Which in this case could happen to me, as I am not the first to vote and I have, for all intents and purposes, led the charge gainst B_Real.

I may judge my views a bit too much on past games, but these strategems have worked and slight variations on them could be equally as deadly. ESPECIALLY in the hands of a player such as CmP who is, without a doubt, powerful, well worded and influential among us.

EDIT for grammar. A couple of mistakes that my mental nagging can't take. And to add this.

Sith's point on me only being a good mafiate is a BIT off. In Mafia SP, I was cult leader and anti mafia as well. In my entire time of dealing in that game, the ONLY two people I ever voted for were mafiates. I'd say my performance of being antimafia is also well decorated as I haven't been wrong thus far with a vote.

[Sithdarth]

Sith's point on me only being a good mafiate is a BIT off. In Mafia SP, I was cult leader and anti mafia as well. In my entire time of dealing in that game, the ONLY two people I ever voted for were mafiates. I'd say my performance of being antimafia is also well decorated as I haven't been wrong thus far with a vote.

I addressed this fact slightly by saying this:

Now Mesden's considerable exprience with the Mafia could benefit us, so that's a plus.

Let me elaborate slightly. Sure you may be able to pick Mafiates out but that does not a good townie make. First you must pick out a Mafiate and convince everyone else. That's not an easy thing to do and is complicated be the second part of this mini-list. Second, you have to convince people to go along with you without raising the suspicions of the other townies and getting yourself lynched or Vigged. Which tends to also be a rather difficult prospect; this will be especially true if either B_real or Mesden turn out to be townies. Third you have to fly under the radar of the Mafia or convince someone to protect you from night hits.

As of yet Mesden as well as myself and most other player haven't demonstrated these qualties, at least not that I have seen. I gave CmP a pass for two reasons. One, everyone already agrees to him being strong. Two, I assume he has great external expierence with Mafia not tied to this board.

All that said I'll be alert, even with regards to CmP, for any signs of dishonesty or subterfuge. No one gets a pass, I just don't think Mesden was a valid Mafiate first day hit. There are a couple of much higher profile players and she'd be great to have around to stir up suspicion if only for her past.

[Mesden]

Let me elaborate slightly. Sure you may be able to pick Mafiates out but that does not a good townie make. First you must pick out a Mafiate and convince everyone else. That's not an easy thing to do and is complicated be the second part of this mini-list. Second, you have to convince people to go along with you without raising the suspicions of the other townies and getting yourself lynched or Vigged. Which tends to also be a rather difficult prospect; this will be especially true if either B_real or Mesden turn out to be townies. Third you have to fly under the radar of the Mafia or convince someone to protect you from night hits.

As of yet Mesden as well as myself and most other player haven't demonstrated these qualties, at least not that I have seen. I gave CmP a pass for two reasons. One, everyone already agrees to him being strong. Two, I assume he has great external expierence with Mafia not tied to this board.

All that said I'll be alert, even with regards to CmP, for any signs of dishonesty or subterfuge. No one gets a pass, I just don't think Mesden was a valid Mafiate first day hit. There are a couple of much higher profile players and she'd be great to have around to stir up suspicion if only for her past.


Well, I know I've been able to examine posts well and pick out mafiates. That's one down. As to fly under the radar...I wasn't ever suspected by the town as evil in that game. The vig hit me off random rolling and the Mafia didn't like me picking half their members.

As to getting people to believe me, that's up in the air. On the one hand, in that game, I couldn't get anyone to follow me when I accused and voted for the mafiates, then again, it's fairly obvious with my Mafia expertise that I can make someone look very guilty when they aren't, which could be converted into anti mafiate tactics.

So, I'm at least 2/3 and possibly 3/3 if my mafiate skills can be harnessed to this.

Also, Sith, the mafia may not have picked me because I'm one of them. That is a BIG possibility that you didn't mention and leads me to believe that you doubt me being mafia. The same with B_Real's statement which I caught.

*Cough* Me possibly overevaluating posts again or just doing a good job. *Cough*

[Sithdarth]

As for the not mentioning that you could have been passed over because of being in the Mafia there is a quick and dirty explination. My first post on this very subject was all about B_real's accusation that you must, or at least most probably would, be Mafia because they didn't kill you on Night 1. As such I didn't think it needed repeating. B_real's logic may have been strange but yes the possibility he is right is still there. I've just not seen the evidence to make that secenairo any more likely then anything else that has been presented. In short, I have yet to form a solid opinion regarding you and pretty much anyone else. Perhaps with the exception of B_real and Catlover, I think, both warrent extra caution for several reason stated both by me and by you.

[Silly Kitty]

Just because he acted one way in the last game, should not give him any special circumstances in this one. He could be using his past as a cover to allow aggressiveness, which being able to be unpunishably aggressive is a

Or he could just be a really bad mafia player. In any case I am going to FOS him. I probably won't vote on him because this may be just the way he plays. No tact, I guess.

Sadly, I still haven't read all of this. I'm slipping. T.T

[secretskull]

B-Real hasn't cleared himself much in his last post as far as I'm concerned. It sounded far too threatening toward the end. At the moment though, we should be concentrating on getting all the low posters and lurkers to post. As of now we have 6 lurkers, and around three low posters.

[The Wandering God]

Okay, I have a crazy idea. An idea so crazy, it will probably end up with me getting killed by someone (town, mafia, serial killer, whatever else). But, I always did like to play dangeriously. (Or stupidly.)

Before I give my idea, I'd like to make sure the majority of the players are behind it. If not, we'll just scrap it and try something else. Without further ado, here I go.

I wish for the PO to investigate me tonight, as well as the BG to protect me. GASP!

But why? Well, if I am guilty of being a bad guy, then the PO can step forward and say "Kill him". Then the PO will have the protection of the doc, as then we know that the PO is telling the truth.

But I'm not a bad guy. So why so this? When the PO finds out I'm innocent, they keep quiet. If someone else tries to step forward and claim that I'm the badguy, lynch me. When found out that I'm innocent, lynch my accuser.

So, if noone comes forward, you know I'm a townie. That means, we at least have someone in the game we know we can trust. (With no cult, no allegiances will change. At least, as long as no more special roles drop out :( )

Now what to do next, I'll leave more open than discussion.

Soooo, what do you guys think?

Even if you disagree, I think it's high time that we stop letting the town roles do whatever. (It was only in SoL that I saw them in the hands of truly capable characters, and I'm afraid to say it isn't always the case.) They should be doing what the town says. Now I realize the problem is, is that the mafia and serial killer can also say things, but that's why we need EVERYONE to vote on what they should do.

They can still operate in secret, but with everyone (mostly, hopefully) in agreement.

Now, just to see how long before people freak out and start voting for me.

The Wandering God

[Thundergod Cid]

Isn't your plan made somewhat superfluous by the presence of the Reporter? We're bound to have some confirmed townies because of him. We'd already have IC as someone we could trust if he hadn't gotten killed last night. I truly doubt that a Mafiate would be foolish enough to falsely accuse you if this plan does occur.

[The Wandering God]

Isn't your plan made somewhat superfluous by the presence of the Reporter? We're bound to have some confirmed townies because of him. We'd already have IC as someone we could trust if he hadn't gotten killed last night. I truly doubt that a Mafiate would be foolish enough to falsely accuse you if this plan does occur.
Yes, but do you really think the serial killer and mafia will let them live? I'm willing to be a known townie because I think it will help until I die.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

It's a BIT one sided to your advantage. But, I'll side with it as it seems like a good plan and, hell, what's the harm in rejecting it?

EDIT. I misworded. I meant to say NOT rejecting. hehehe.

[CrazyBen]

Your plan sounds good to me TWG (that ryhmed). Also, I'm starting to be a little suspicious of B_Real, since he seems to be mostly trying to start fights and then de-implicate himself (is that a word). Unless we get a better suspect today (when's the lynch voting over?) he's getting my vote.

[P-Sleazy]

are you saying to have me investigated AND protected by the PO and Doc? Now I thats a plan I have no problem with. But anyone would say that since the mafiates would try to assimilate themselves into the town and do what the town does, and a townie would want to be proven innocent to be safe from lynches, and the VIG. But that still leaves 2 roles that could kill you, the SK and Mafia. And if we know youre innocent, thats one less person they have to worry about in terms of PO and Doc, since neither of those two roles can protect themselves/investigate themselves.

But if we do go through this, and I'm still torn on the issue, do you have to be the first person investigated? Since you are proposing this, and we go through with this, You would have to have nothing to lose and everything to gain, meaning no mafia/SK role for you.

[Silly Kitty]

Well, I'm not quite sure I understand it. We would need the PO and the BG to protect and investigate someone every night? So, we would give a name on here telling the PO who to investigate and the BG who to protect. Wouldn't that mean the the mafia amd SK would know not to hit that person so no one would be safe from the mafia or SK?

[DarthMauler64]

So TWG, your plan is to have the town discuss what the various towns roles should do? That sounds like a good plan. But, I have to agree with Silly Kitty on the Body Guard thing. If we tell the BG what to do, then the mafia/SK will know not to hit that person. I agree with you on the PO and Vig though.

Also, I personally think that the Mafia went for Grthwllms, because the Mafia wasn't here and Newb had to roll for them. But, then again Newb might have just made another Mafia, temporary Don just for that Night.

Still holding my vote.

[Silly Kitty]

Okay, I thought more about it. If someone had told me to do this last game, I would have ignored them. The people who seem the most innocent are usually not.

If the PO finds someone bad so early, that leaves the PO vulnerable. There is no guarantee the doc won't get hit by the mafia/vig/SK.

[Thundergod Cid]

The Reporter will most likely reveal a townie within the next couple of nights, who could be protected by the BG. This accomplishes the same thing as your plan, while also leaving the PO free to try and find mafiates. I still just don't get the point of it.

[DarthMauler64]

Hey, this is strange. The thread claims there is a page 12, but when I clicked on it, it only brought me to page 11.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/DarthMauler64/untitled3.jpg

I clicked on the link properties to show the link was going to a page 12.

Is this a forum mess up, or did someone delete a post?

[Thundergod Cid]

Right after I posted, the topic list said that there were 110 replies to the topic. It still says 110 right now. I think someone did delete a post.

[Mesden]

That was a spam post made by Richard. An adspammer. Meister deleted it and there should be no more on the subject.

A'ight?

[The Wandering God]

I don't see how this puts myself in advantageous situation. Known townies are going to be very high on the death list. But since only one will be known per night by the reporter (unless they find someone else), then the Mafia will be able to keep the count of who is who down. Less known townies mean more places for the Mafia and SK to hide.

I'm not saying we do this every night. Just once. After all, I know I'm innocent. I can't say the same for anyone else. I also put in my original plan, that what would happen after would be up to the town.

The reason I want the BG and PO both to hit me is because if I just say the PO, then the mafia (or Sk, or both) would kill me, thus wasting the POs time. (Like with the reporter and the SK on the first night.) I would like for the Doc to protect the Vig or PO, but we don't know who they are yet. And until we do, I think they should be covering known townies. And the only known townie I know of is me.

And the PO won't have to reveal himself, as I'm not a bad guy. The end result of my plan is to have a known townie be alive on the next day.

Again, what happens after, I leave up to everyone else. The game does have a tendancy of changing in just one night after all.

As to what's going on right now, I don't actually see any reason to vote for anyone yet. I see a lot of people trying to push their own agendas though. (And I freely admit to include myself in that. But my agenda is in the interests of the town, I feel.)

Yes, the BG should protect the PO or Vig. But again, we don't know who they are yet. And the SoL game was the only one I saw where the player was smart enough to make the correct choices.

When, if ever, do you think the PO should reveal themselves? After finding the SK? How many mafiates? Never?

The problem with the PO NOT revealing themselves it the fact that the mafia (or SK) could get lucky and randomly snuff them. Or figure out that the PO is trying to insert there names into lists of who is guilty.

And the Vig. I worry about the Vig. But then again, it's in non-random hands now, so I guess we'll see how that goes.

The Wandering God

[Silly Kitty]

What is the point of just proving you innocent? If you have no special role and have no special information you are just like the rest of us. You will know nothing and continue to know nothing. The only thing that changes is we know you are innocent. I think this is just wasting a day when the PO and BG could be doing better things.

[Sithdarth]

Also, if he turns out to be a bad guy then we know who the PO is and thus the Doc would have to protect him/her. Leaving everyone else open to attack.

Also, with the reporter floating around the Doc is open to exposure at anytime. Thus we could end up knowing two of the towns major roles. Then someone could hit the Doc and then the PO. However, a lucky night role kill, or unlucky lynching could get the dock. In which case the PO is known and is very easy to take out.

Its better in this game that we not take chances with exposing them at least until we know the Reporter isn't going to accidently expose them. Also, a question for Newb; are you going to tell us if those rolls get assigned to no one? I mean if they had just been killed off we would know so it seems fair we be informed if they get assigned to no one. Otherwise it could drastically effect the game to never be able to find out if those roles are totally gone.

[Bailey]

It will be told whether they get reassigned.

[Mondt]

First off: I apologize for my absence. I haven't been home much at all the past two weeks. Catching up from the beginning is really no fun at all.

So, could someone please confirm this? I want to know what is happening.

B_real is said to be suspicious because of bad reasoning and quick attacks (Mesden and CmP). Catlover is suspicious because he flings votes like crazy. From what I read, TWG thinks he is found suspicious, but I can't find why. Also, Mesden is the center of almost all of the arguments right now. XD

That last one was a joke, 'cept almost not.

Am I missing anything? I hate to be a burden...

[P-Sleazy]

that about sums it all up. Oh and 2 rolls need to be reassigned (if they get assigned).
First off: I apologize for my absence. I haven't been home much at all the past two weeks. Catching up from the beginning is really no fun at all.
Which reminds me...if you were away from here for that long a time, and there was apperently some people missing, people who had night roles mind you, on the first night too, we could easily assume that you were one of those roles am I correct?

Edit: http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399151&postcount=3 Wanted to get that in and no reason tag to fill in since this is a lightning edit but still shows that I edited.

[Fenris]

Can we get a vote count in here? I'd like to know which way the wind is blowing at this point.

I still don't have a concrete opinion on anybody's role.

EDIT: B_real, I know where you're drawing your logic from, but accusing a person of having a night role (good or bad) because they were gone is kinda just odd. We can also assume that anybody else who isn't posting has a night role. We can also assume anybody has a night role. Maybe whoever didn't send in their role simply didn't think a new mafia game had started yet. I'm guilty of thinking that myself until I noticed it had new posts. We can't assume Skelly has a role simply because he came in the door a little late.

[secretskull]

I just want to point out something. Known townies are in less danger of being night killed. The Vig won't kill them, and the mafia and SK prefer to try and find the doctor/detective, rather then kill a townie.
One more thing. TWG's plan would work better with the Reporter rather then with the Detective (I know this has been mentioned), but I feel that we should at least put it on hold for a while.

[Bailey]

votes

catlover20410 Alive 6
B_real_shadows Alive 6
CallmePrismatic Alive 7
secretskull Alive 15


So that's 2 for Mesden, 1 for B_Real, and 1 for Crazy Ben

[Silly Kitty]

Newb, I don't really get your vote post. It is a bit confusing.

The number before the name is their number in the game and the number after is the number of the person they are voting for? Maybe you could make it simpler...

[CallmePrismatic]

I just want to point out something. Known townies are in less danger of being night killed. The Vig won't kill them, and the mafia and SK prefer to try and find the doctor/detective, rather then kill a townie.
One more thing. TWG's plan would work better with the Reporter rather then with the Detective (I know this has been mentioned), but I feel that we should at least put it on hold for a while.
Wrong. Known townies get painted with a nice red target on their forehead. The SK is unaccountable for since (s)he just wants everyone dead, but the mafia knows it can't convince the town to lynch a known townie, so that townie will most likely be Nightkilled, unless the Doc wants to protect him/her every Night.

[DarthMauler64]

Well about the townies thing, both sides are kinda right. On the one hand the town won't lynch a know townie. On the other hand, the mafia would not want to hit the townie yet (save them for later), because they would rather eliminate roles. They mafia would almost always hit someone town aligned anyway, because there are only two non-mafia non-town roles.

Also, I am confused by the way you are posting votes Newb. Could you do it the old way? (Unless you have a reason or something)

I would also like to point out that Newb says "alive" at the end of each vote. This could mean there is a role where the dead can vote.

EDIT: Left out the word "only" (in bold) and it makes the sentence sound weird.

[The Wandering God]

Well, I can see why having the reporter investigate me would be preferable. Or anyone for that matter. I would just rather be known as innocent and high on the death list, than unknown and subject to lynching via my own stupidity or a mafia/SK plot.

But the SK would want known roles killed to, as again, it means more places for him/her to hide.

So, I'll ask that the BG and reporter both hit me tonight, so that way we don't have another repeat of the first night.

But I never did get a response about whether we should vote or not on what the various roles do. Any ideas? I realize the voting should only be implemented if as many people as possible vote, thus hopefully nullifying any mafia/sk interference.

As to who to vote to lynch right now...

Fuck, all I see is a bunch of hot air for everyone. Not any actual reasons to vote. People trying to make it seem like others are acting in a certain way.

No leads to really go on either.

But I really don't want to vote a no lynch, as I am of the opinion that would be bad.

Argggg.

Random voting is also bad. I will probably vote soon, but still not sure how that will go.

The Wandering God

[catlover20410]

My vote's still there?!

I thought for sure I undid that.

Unvote: Mesden

[Mesden]

Well, TWG, there are a few people with REAL suspicion casted against them. Those people happen to be me, CmP, B_real and Catlover. I'll run over the reasons.

I was accused for, of course, being to hasty to defend myself before any accusation on my history was made.

My defense was that it was forseeable enough to defend that early. Also, I was accused with being to rash to cast blame when I FoS'd B_real and compared his tactics to those of the past.

My defense was that an FoS isn't rash and comparing actions to past occurences is completely viable.

B_Real was casted suspicion on for voting for me so quickly and stating all of those reasons I previously mentioned. Seems my defense was well enough to prove me innocent in others eyes and B_real scummy as well.

Also, I believe CmP's reason was

You mentioned his name, so he apparently took that as an accusation or something.

b_real, I think you just overplayed your hand. Of the five people you listed, the ones that knowingly 'accused' you I mean, the general tone was asking you to explain your actions.

But now you think we've backed you into a corner, even though the majority of us were lounging around on the sofa while you sat under the endtable and threw packing peanuts at us. When one of us mentions that the peanut-throwing was a bit odd you suddenly freak out, run to the corner, and start babbling that we're to blame. That is not how an innocent person handles confrontation.

Vote: B_real_shadows. I've made my case, but like I've said, I can be swayed if you change your mentality from gibbering to reasonable.


Now, as far as CmP's suspicion goes, I'll quote what I stated.

Now, what occurs to me are two people. One, which I have already stated is B_Real. All the reasons are fairly obvious and I HOPE don't need repeating.

The other, which may come as a surprise from me, is CmP. At first, I thought well of him. But, in retrospect, I see his actions taking place off mine. Also, his influence matches and exceeds mine here and when pseudo working in my favor as he has, leads me to suspect that maybe he is trying to get a strong player(Me) to be friendly with him and take the brunt of the blow in case that B_Real is not mafia and is lynched.

Remember, just because he votes first doesn't mean a thing. Check Mafia SP. Neyo didn't vote first, but for all intents and purposes led the charge and voted later. Making him less conspicuous until pointed out (by me and Garud, the teaming cultists at that time) and later being found as a mafiate. Which in this case could happen to me, as I am not the first to vote and I have, for all intents and purposes, led the charge gainst B_Real.

I may judge my views a bit too much on past games, but these strategems have worked and slight variations on them could be equally as deadly. ESPECIALLY in the hands of a player such as CmP who is, without a doubt, powerful, well worded and influential among us.

Catlover's suspicion is obvious in his quick vote shifts. Seemingly off the first reaccusation without giving the person(Me) a chance to plead their case.

That's all so far. Atleast, that's what I've examined.

EDIT: Well, Catlover changed his vote again, it seems. Take that into account, of course. I WAS NINJA'D!

[P-Sleazy]

Fenris The current list of people left in the game stands like this

1 Supreme Edgemaster
2 Major_Blood
3 catlover20410
4 The_Wandering_God
5 DarthMauler64
6 Mesden
7 B_real_shadows
8 h4x.m4g3
9 Thundergod_Cid
10 POS_Industries
11 Grthwllms the Obvious Civilian
12 CallmePrismatic
13 FenrisWolf
14 Ecurt the Normal Civilian
15 CrazyBen
16 SithDarth
17 sk3l3t0n
18 Inbred Chocobo the Normal Civilian
19 Neyo the King the Normal Vigilante
20 Silly Kitty
21 The Wizard Who Did It
22 Ogianres
23 secretskull
24 Patrat the Insightful Reporter
25 Big Mac

Of these people I can only think of 3 that I havent seen around lately and they are Big Mac, Sk3l3t0n, and Supreme Edgemaster. I'd dig deeper to see when they've been posting around the forums but that might be seen as PM watching (I'm not invisible for a reason here) so I don't think I shall be doing that unless Newb says its ok to look at if they've been posting for the past few days. I'd probably check most of the people on the list to see if they've been absent during that 4 day period when the game started and the killings have been revealed.

And newb also says that "neither player" meaning that there's atleast 2 players who didnt send in their roles. But I also do realize that these could also lead towards the PO, VIG, Doc, and Reporter roles.

Edit: Hint Newb, that be a question asked publicly of you if I can check atleast into these 3's posting records for the past week.

[Silly Kitty]

No one asked for this but this is post count in the game thus far.

Mesden - 22
B_Real_Shadows - 12
CallMePrismatic - 11
Silly Kitty - 11
Newb - 10
Sithdarth - 9
The_Wandering_God - 8
Thundergod Cid - 7
Catlover20410 - 6
FenrisWolf - 6
secretskull - 5
DarthMauler64 - 4
Ecurt - 4
CrazyBen - 3
Ogianres - 3
Major_Blood - 3
h4x.m4g3 - 2
Patrat - 2
sk3L3t0n - 1
Supreme Edgemaster - 0
POS_Industries - 0
Big Mac - 0

We seem to have a lot of low posters.

[DarthMauler64]

From what I remember about Newb's first post about the inactive roles was that he mentioned there were two roles that hadn't sent anything in. One was the Neyo the Vig because Neyo forgot he signed up or something. My opinion is the Mafia Don was the other, but I am not sure.

Also, Newb, can you highlight the players the appropriate colors on the players list on the front page?

[secretskull]

Explain why you think it's the Mafia Don. It could have easily been any other role.
CP the mafia has no reason to waste a kill on a known townie. Sure, they can't convince the town to lynch him, but they can just convince the town to lynch someone else. The Mafia's nights are better spent on narrowing down suspects for the town aligned roles. As are the nights of the SK (and the Reporter for that matter).
Anyway right now we should be concentrating on putting pressure on those people who haven't posted much, but have been on. That way a Mafia member can't hide there.

[DarthMauler64]

My reason is Grthwllms hasn't played this game before. If I were the mafia I would have killed someone with some experience or that I knew that their death would stir up trouble. Then again the mafia might have killed him because then we would be confused, but I still think the first sentence.

Well, I have class and stuff now. Be back at 3:00ish or something.

[CallmePrismatic]

Explain why you think it's the Mafia Don. It could have easily been any other role.
CP the mafia has no reason to waste a kill on a known townie. Sure, they can't convince the town to lynch him, but they can just convince the town to lynch someone else. The Mafia's nights are better spent on narrowing down suspects for the town aligned roles. As are the nights of the SK (and the Reporter for that matter).
I'm sorry, maybe I missed something, but why are a few of you so sure that the mafia would pass up the perfect Nightkill to 'narrow down suspects'? FYI, every time the Mafia kills a person it's bad. The mafia care only about numbers, and the less townies there are the better off they are. Known townies are the mafia's worst enemies because the town automatically trusts them, so the mafia will then hit them when they have the power, Night.

Having vanilla townies known is only in the best interest of the mafia.

[Supreme Edgemaster]

My first post In a mafia game!!! YAY!!! Now. To business. I don't trust the vets. So...
VOTE: Mesden

[The Wandering God]

My first post In a mafia game!!! YAY!!! Now. To business. I don't trust the vets. So...
VOTE: Mesden
Well then you better vote for just about everyone here, since most of us are vets.

And now I have a crazy idea.

FoS: CmP Why?

His steadfast refusal to acknowledge the SK's interest in the whole "known townie" debate. All he said was
The SK is unaccountable for since (s)he just wants everyone dead.
Wrong. So very wrong to say the SK shouldn't be accounted for.

I even pointed out after that why the SK wouldn't want known townies alive (less places to hide), but even after that, he refused to acknowledge that.

Hmmmmmm.

The Wandering God

[Fenris]

My first post In a mafia game!!! YAY!!! Now. To business. I don't trust the vets. So...
VOTE: Mesden
Wow, how deliciously absurd. You're voting for somebody on the basis that they've played before?

That's like saying "You know what you're doing more than me. You must be guilty."

FoS: Supreme Edgemaster

C'mon, give a reason at least.

[Mesden]

My first post In a mafia game!!! YAY!!! Now. To business. I don't trust the vets. So...
VOTE: Mesden

Darn, I have played the game before! I MUST be killed for this act! /sarcasm

Yeeeeeeah, um, did you just vote me for having the MOST posts? That's...so...so flawed...It's perfect!

Wait...No it isn't. Also, if you want a vet, I'd go for CmP, since I'm sure the bringer has more veteran prestige than me, only a player on NPF.

I'll go ahead and agree with Fenris. FOS: SupremeEdge Master

[CallmePrismatic]

My first post In a mafia game!!! YAY!!! Now. To business. I don't trust the vets. So...
VOTE: Mesden
...Can I buy some pot from you? Although this is partly my fault, I'll start Inexperienced Mafia at some point...in fact I better get on that...

TWG: I guess I didn't respond because, me being egotistical me, didn't see you were talking to me (for future reference, I'm like Beetlejuice except you only have to say my name once). Even then, I guess I usually don't think about the SK because I've never been an SK, while I have been mafia in past games and know how they think. In my game experience the SK usually falls to a random Nightkill (or in one memorable game, quit in disgust because he hated playing the SK). Nevertheless, known townies are bad news for the townie, which is why I never released the names of the people I investigated as PO in Berserk: Mafia.

[Supreme Edgemaster]

Ok. I guess that is kind of a stupid way to vote.

UNVOTE: Mesden

I just don't know what to base my vote on. Who I hate in the forums or just the way people act? Any help would...well...help.

[Mesden]

Ok. I guess that is kind of a stupid way to vote.

UNVOTE: Mesden

I just don't know what to base my vote on. Who I hate in the forums or just the way people act? Any help would...well...help.

Yeah, personal differences...NOT the way to go. The way people act seems to be the popular opinion.

From what we saw, you didn't mention anything about HOW I acted, just about how much experience I have doing it.

[Thundergod Cid]

I just don't know what to base my vote on. Who I hate in the forums or just the way people act? Any help would...well...help.
The way people act in this topic. Basing votes on who you dislike in the forums isn't a good idea, since it's a random number generator and not people's personalities that determines who gets what role. Roleclaims, suspicious behavior, and the results of the Reporter and Detective's investigations (Detective only once they've been revealed, of course) are typical things that votes are based off of in this game.

Though, we don't really have much to go on right now. Hence, why many people are saying "Wow, I have no idea who to vote for."

[Silly Kitty]

Well, why don't you go over this game a bit. Read back through the posts. I don't think you are mafia but please try harder.

Also, CMP, I'm gonna FOS you because you seem to be defending the mafia a lot. Not a vote because I have no reason other than that.

[Supreme Edgemaster]

Originally Posted by Mesden HERSELF FOR GOD'S SAKE
EDIT: wow, Sith's right, actually... I haven't done shit for the town...Ever...


That is a reason to suspect you as mafia. But I will hold my vote for later. For now I'll just wait it out and...

FOS: Mesden

I want to know why you never did anything for a town aligned role up to this point.

[Silly Kitty]

Because she has never been a townie.

That is not her fault and is not a reason to FOS her. Sorry if I'm defending you Mes. I'm just answering a question.

[Supreme Edgemaster]

Well seeing as I have no basis to vote for anyone...

VOTE: No Lynch

I hope I see the darker side of some people next vote so that I can actually hit someone.

[P-Sleazy]

you won't see a darker side. the most you'll be able to make out of anyone is a marble cake (meaning, you can't tell whether their good, bad, smart, idiots, etc). no one will ever appear black or white unless revealed to us by the detective, Reporter, GO's hints (if any are given in death posts), or the mafia just messes up HORRIBLY.

also no lynch is a bad thing. I'll work out the probabilities for killing evil roles later tonight if we dont lynch.

And if I were to go on the whole personal differences thing...I'd probably vote myself a million times over. God I hate myself!;)

[Silly Kitty]

First, it's never good to no lynch, not on the first day, not ever. We shouldn't look at it like a "Well, we've got nothing to go on so let's do nothing", it's rings more loudly like "I don't want to upset anybody so I'm going to give the Night-Killers a free pass".

Voting No Lynch doesn't allow us to fast forward in an effort to find clues, because Night doesn't provide more clues, just more corpses. You want to know the odds that someone will die at the mafiates or SK's hands tonight if we lynch someone. 1:1. If we don't lynch? 1:1. We'll only have better odds because more people will have died (and hopefully the Vig won't be so trigger happy toNight).

Maybe you should try and read up on what has happened so far.

[Ogianres]

Small FOS: Supreme Edgemaster
I don't think you are neccesarily scum, so much as you are just inexperienced.
And by the way, voting no lynch will never help us in this game.

[Supreme Edgemaster]

I know voting No Lynch will help no one but I have no basis to vote for anyone. So I don't have a remote hope in the world of picking someone to vote for "With Reason" so I have no choice.

[Silly Kitty]

What? Why don't you wait. Waiting is fun. Watch and see what people do. Look closely at people's posts. Soon, you will find someone you think could be scummy. You could also wait until someone else finds someone who is scummy.

[Supreme Edgemaster]

If anyone could give me input on whether I should just drop out and wait for the "Inexperienced" game that would be great. I just don't want to mess up anyones fun.

[P-Sleazy]

oh no, you don't want to drop out. My first game of mafia was SOL and that was apperently the one game each of the roles really knew what they were doing (Bodyguard, Vigilante, and Police officer) and I made it all the way through to the end. You will probably learn alot more from playing in this game than you would from playing in Inexperienced mafia since you have more people watching out for scum and are inherently good at finding it/noticing it (I'm looking at two of you in particular, not gonna name names thoough). So Stick to this game and you'll do fine so long as you don't do TOO many off the wall things.

Odds of killing Mafia and town roles will be up within an hour so we can compare the lynch with the no lynch.

[Bailey]

three questions answered.

go ahead and check the specific page of somebody to see if they have been on in the past week, since it says "last activity was on such and such a day", just don't go onto "who's online"

I'm not going to highlightappropriate colors, but I will make it clearer who's dead than just the strikethrough

There could be hints in the deaths, but not all of them have hints. Same thing anytime I post an act-out of what's happened.

[catlover20410]

Pinky of Suspicion: Supreme Edgemaster

No-Lynching, voting for someone "because they're a veteran".

Probably just noobishness, but I still point the POS at you.

[P-Sleazy]

what I said the stuff for lynching was
there are 21 players left. 5 of which is the mafia, and 1 is the serial killer so thats 6 threats to the town. THe town has the Vig, PO, doctor and Reporter (I hope I'm not forgetting anyone) for a total of 4 roles pro-town. that leaves 11 vanilla townies in the game.

Now we know the Mafia is going to kill the 1 player, that player could be the SK too, so the odds of them hitting any given person is 1/16 or 6.25% (SK and vigilante is this too), Town role is 4 in 16 or 25%, and vanilla townie is 11 in 16 or 68.75%

The serial killer and vigilante each dont know who is who so the odds of them hitting eachother is 1 in 20 (they cant hit themselves) or 5%, odds of hitting a Townie role (PO, Doc, VIG, Reporter) are 4 in 20 or 20% and the odds of hitting a mafiate is 5 in 20 or 25% and finally hitting a vanilla townie is 55%

And the odds of the town lynching a vanilla townie are 11 in 21 or 52.3%,for lynching a mafiate 5 in 21 or 23.8%, lynching a townie role is 4 in 21 or 19%.

So given that, we have 3 chances that one of those 4 killing chances will any of the three night roles, with odds being greatest on the mafiate (5 of the 7 night killers and 5 of the 20 (21 for town) total town members.

Correct me if my math is wrong here but the odds of having atleast ONE of those 3 hitting a mafiate is done like this [1-(.75 X .75 X .762)]=.571375 or 57% chance of having ONE of those three killings to be a mafiate kill. thats OVER half. but thats also a .428625 or 42.8% chance of not hitting a mafiate at all with all 3 of those roles. *

Chance of hitting a townie role is 4 chances (except vigilante, his odds are going to be slightly different and wont bother doing) are found like this. [1-(.8 X .8 X .75 X.81)]=.6112 or 61.12% chance of having one of the 4 killing roles killing a townie role. *

*for the statistics part here, I calculated the chance of all 3 missing and then subtracted that from 1 to find the chance of atleast 1 hitting.

Basically this reads like this. I'll put in the form of a table
...........chance to kill
Role.......Vig.......PO/Doc/Reporter.......SK.........Mafia........Vanilla Townie

Vig.......0%..............15%.................5%.. .......20%.........60%
SK........5%..............15%.................0%.. .......20%.........60%
Mafia....6.25%..........18.75%.............6.25%.. ...0%...........68.75%
Lynch....4.7%...........14.2%...............4.7%.. ...23.8%.......52.3%

If we do the lynch,
we have a 57% chance of getting atleast ONE mafiate.
Chance of hitting atleast 1 townie role (exluding vigilante) is 61%
*Chance the Vig will be hit is 15% (1-[.95 x .953 x .9375])

Without the lynch the odds of each of those roles being killed off is just the first 3 lines of the shown table and each role being killed off becomes this.

atleast 1 mafiate killed off is 36% (1-[.8 x .8])
atleast 1 town role (excluding Vigilante) being killed off is 41% (1-[.85 x .85 x .8125)
chance the Vigilante is killed off becomes 11% (1-[.95 x .9375])

So lets compare in another table shall we?

Odds of killing atleast 1.......with Lynch.............No Lynch
Mafiate...............................57%......... .............36%
PO/Doc/Reporter...................61%.................... ..41%
VIG/SK................................15%............. .........11%


*Vigilante is so much less because he's 1 person whereas the other townie roles have 3 chances of having one of them being hit (PO, Doc, and Reporter)

Also for the purposes of making my life easier but still keeping the stats true, if you want the odds of the Serial killer being killed off, just look at the odds the Vigilante has of being killed off. Their the same odds.

Sorry for the double post if that happened.

Thanx Newb.

Edit: OH and before I go deeper, what I meant by checking them, I meant their posting history from May 22nd to May 26th, But I fear that may also reveal TOO much information about checked persons.

[catlover20410]

Math like that always seems a bit fishy to me, but that's mostly because I'm a bit too lazy to double check it, and I phail at it so badly that even if I did I'd double-check it wrong.

[DarthMauler64]

I'm confused. Did you copy/paste the numbers from your original post? If you did there are only 20 people left.

EDIT: Also, there is the possibility of two townies transforming into the Vig and the Reporter. Or having no vig at all.

[Mondt]

Will the Reporter have the same trait? That seems to be something that might matter, if we can figure out what it does.

[Bailey]

the Insightful trait tells the bearer the role of the person with the Obvious trait.

The person who had the obvious trait is dead.

Traits do not get passed on by people who leave.

[Mesden]

Well, Edgemaster, I know you use the excuse of unknowing of the game, BUT that really is no excuse.

Lack of experience should not defy rational logic and letting it pass off on the sole purpose of "Noobishness" is just plain ignorance.

For the most we know, you could actually be a very experienced player in real life and are using your lack of forum time and appearances in OUR forum's games as your guise.

I'll not condemn you yet, but PLEASE do not let this be the case again, as I for one will not let it pass easily.


Now, we have all agreed that not lynching is a serious waste of time and should never take place unless it is in demanding circumstances. I'll force a decision of my own early and Vote: B_Real Shadows solely off his lack of defense.

If you want my proof on this, just demand it. But, I'm hoping everyone sees my point or can go look it over.

From what I can tell, he's using this Math to make himself seem more useful and pull the attention off of him. As, I don't see anyone bringing up the past since. (Even though there has been a lack of activity lately concerning WHO to lynch).

Now, I'm hoping this vote will ALSO speed the game up a bit more and cause a bit more discussion over WHO to vote, not why not to vote as that is already established several fold.

So, someone disagree with me or bring some new point to light. I'm rather enjoying this.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I sure do hope I get a last word, because I am using it now!

Character count start.
I was going to vote for catlover because my gut told me too. Bastards.
Character count end. Total: 70

[The Wandering God]

Now, we have all agreed that not lynching is a serious waste of time and should never take place unless it is in demanding circumstances. I'll force a decision of my own early and Vote: B_Real Shadows solely off his lack of defense.

If you want my proof on this, just demand it. But, I'm hoping everyone sees my point or can go look it over.

From what I can tell, he's using this Math to make himself seem more useful and pull the attention off of him. As, I don't see anyone bringing up the past since. (Even though there has been a lack of activity lately concerning WHO to lynch).

Now, I'm hoping this vote will ALSO speed the game up a bit more and cause a bit more discussion over WHO to vote, not why not to vote as that is already established several fold.

So, someone disagree with me or bring some new point to light. I'm rather enjoying this.
Lack of defense is no reason to hang someone. Actually, this is kind of the opposite of why people are voting for you. Overly defensive. (Yes, I'm aware of why you defended yourself early, but really, I think you are far too clever by half to draw attention to yourself like that.) Also, making that elaborate post wouldn't draw attention away from him, it would direct it to him. And the only one who really has been bringing up the past is you I'd say. I don't buy "well I was a threat so many times, this time surely I couldn't be" defense. Even if you never actually came out and said it, it was implied.

Of course CmP was in some ways the one that got that Mesden accusation ball running. As a joke of course. (Something I think he is too smart to do as well.)

Hmmmm, I was suspicous of him before, and now I'm also suspicous of you as well.

One, or both of you, are acting extremely peculiar.

Based on your responses, I'll probably end up voting for one of you, as I have no better leads at the moment. I don't actually expect anyone else to, though, as you are highly respected players.

The Wandering God

[Ogianres]

Actually TWG, that is very sound reasoning. Unfortunately, I get very paranoid when someone else says something that would convince me rather than just them saying something I already agree with... I think that's the reason I have some weird gut feeling about CmP and Mesden. Ick, no wonder it's so hard for me to figure things out.

[Mesden]

Lack of defense is no reason to hang someone. Actually, this is kind of the opposite of why people are voting for you. Overly defensive. (Yes, I'm aware of why you defended yourself early, but really, I think you are far too clever by half to draw attention to yourself like that.) Also, making that elaborate post wouldn't draw attention away from him, it would direct it to him. And the only one who really has been bringing up the past is you I'd say. I don't buy "well I was a threat so many times, this time surely I couldn't be" defense. Even if you never actually came out and said it, it was implied.

Uh huh. Not defending one's self against two accusers with viable points I do consider suspicious. Also, I've been dangerously close to voting for him this whole time. I believe I stated it before CmP actually voted. He vote before even getting a response and then, once accused, never really replied to those accusations aside from the "You'll see once I die" ploy. Which I will remind you has been most lynched mafiate's last action.

Now, the elaborate post is seen as a helpful thing, am I right to say this? Yes, he would get attention, but in a positive light rather than the negative that he was under not so long ago. I'll take this and every other stated point as enough reason to vote for him.

Now for my defenses.

Well, as far as the "This many times" thing, I blatantly said that it was random and that everyone had the same chance, debunking that myself. Now, who said bringing attention was a bad thing? I consider it a valuable point as MORE people look at you when you say something. Hear you out more.

You think it well to keep out of the limelight, I jump head in. It may be the fact(And this will always be true, no matter what my allignment) that I DO think as a mafiate, or atleast MY version of a mafiate. I refer you to my Inexperienced Mafia post to reassure this.

I'm quite the unorthodox player, as you have seen. My plan of attack and defense has never been the same, no matter the game. I'll say this keeps true as of now, because I never became the catalystic persona before.

I WANTED my starting post to turn on the spotlights, so to say. I like a fast game with activity and I KNEW it needed a catalyst to get off the ground. I took it upon myself to do this and defend myself at the same time. To me, this is reasonable.

Of course CmP was in some ways the one that got that Mesden accusation ball running. As a joke of course. (Something I think he is too smart to do as well.)

Heh, well, I can't agree with that seeing as I intentionally got it rolling. Again, this would just be tedious to say it again.

Hmmmm, I was suspicous of him before, and now I'm also suspicous of you as well.

Good, I love accusations and doubt placed on me. It gets me on my toes and lets me have fun. Keep em coming, people. I'm here all day and I will respond with the same bravado I always have.

One, or both of you, are acting extremely peculiar.

Based on your responses, I'll probably end up voting for one of you, as I have no better leads at the moment. I don't actually expect anyone else to, though, as you are highly respected players.

The Wandering God

No no no no no. Being respected has nothing to do with it and should never. Unless you know for a fact our role, than we should have the same position as others, only altered by our performance IN this game.

Now, I've already casted my doubt on CmP. He has been pseudo on my side this entire time. ESPECIALLY with the "Don't vote Mesden! This is a joke!" That aroused my suspicion quickly and then his defense of me just kept getting on my nerves.

But, my vote for B_Real is the fact that my accusations go unattended. Therefore, my suspicion was never put to rest in the slightest and it has been pushed by his last act of "Helping".

Take this as you will. He's deserved my vote until I'm convinced otherwise.

[P-Sleazy]

here's each and every single one of the posts I made in this thread.

51 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399557&postcount=51), 65 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399669&postcount=65), 67 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399678&postcount=67), 71 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399714&postcount=71), 77 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399751&postcount=77), 83 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399816&postcount=83), 88 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399834&postcount=88), 92 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399848&postcount=92), 106 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=400234&postcount=106), 119 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=400605&postcount=119), 129 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=400784&postcount=129), 147 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=400998&postcount=147), 153 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401068&postcount=153), 156 (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401080&postcount=156),
Edit: And this post

92 is the only post which could POSSIBLY be seen as me implying that "kill me and you shall see" but that was not intended as it was more of a "kill me, And I'll tell ya how I played this so maybe you can see if it can help you or not"

[Silly Kitty]

You think it well to keep out of the limelight, I jump head in. It may be the fact(And this will always be true, no matter what my allignment) that I DO think as a mafiate, or atleast MY version of a mafiate. I refer you to my Inexperienced Mafia post to reassure this.

Mes, thinking as a mafiate will never help the town.

You have never been the one to stay in the background though. When most mafiates are posting less you are posting more. That's no indication of anything because that is just how you roll. Also, I don't think B_Real has done anything to merit a vote. Not defending yourself isn't really a good enough reason to lynch someone. You may just be trying to move the vote along but you are not going to get support with just a "he isn't defending himself good enough" vote.

I think the only reason B_Real used the "you will regret it" plea is because he thinks he has a new way of playing the game that will help us. Weather it will work or not I don't know.

I'm sticking with my FOS of CMP and Catlover and adding Mes to it.

[POS Industries]

The hell...? I'm still in this? Seriously, not only have I not played this at all, I don't even know how to play this.

Please. Kill me.

[CrazyBen]

Well, B_Real continous to act (in my opinion) suspicious, and I just want to get this on the record now.

Vote: B_real_shadows

[Silly Kitty]

POS, if you want to quit just tell Newb, and he will take you out of the game. If you have a role your role will be reassigned.

[CallmePrismatic]

Again, I never wanted to look like I was defending Mes. In fact, it should be looked at as more self-preserving on my part, because I wasn't aware of the potential backlash that resulted from the joke; If I hadn't disuaded people from voting Mes then it might have snowballed too far and the vote trail would have lead back to me, even though I never meant for it to go that far. So, bottom line, Self-preservation.

Silly Kitty, I'm going to assume that you're suspicous of me still because I 'defend' the mafia, which is utter bullshit. I just outlined why known townies would be mafia targets, and I'd ask that you find a post or quote that shows me 'defending' them.

[Silly Kitty]

No no, I just think you are acting funny. It wasn't so much as defending as it was absolutely knowing what the mafia would do. You just seemed to talk about the mafia a bit too much. I have nothing more than that and that is why it is just a FOS. CMP, pretty much everyone is FOSed so don't get to uppity about it. The people I do FOS out loud are the ones I am looking at at the moment.

Last game Twiddy did the same thing and he turned out to be mafia.

[catlover20410]

Vote:B_real

I agree with Mesden's logics entirely, and I just have a bad feeling about him. He seems scummy.

[The Wandering God]

Uh huh. Not defending one's self against two accusers with viable points I do consider suspicious. Also, I've been dangerously close to voting for him this whole time. I believe I stated it before CmP actually voted. He vote before even getting a response and then, once accused, never really replied to those accusations aside from the "You'll see once I die" ploy. Which I will remind you has been most lynched mafiate's last action.
So basically you are getting on his back because he voted without proper reason? Well hell, let's just lynch Catlover, who as of now, has changed his vote, what? 3 times? 4 times? And his reasons for voting are paper thin at best?

No, sorry, I don't buy that. And trying to compound via his lack of defense? Which was probably closer to "Well, boy, I screwed up." I don't think he is defending himself, because well, it's hard to use the "I screwed up" defense, as that seems to get a person killed pretty quickly. Whether they were innocent or not. (I've seen it both ways, from my perspective anyway.)

Now, the elaborate post is seen as a helpful thing, am I right to say this? Yes, he would get attention, but in a positive light rather than the negative that he was under not so long ago. I'll take this and every other stated point as enough reason to vote for him.

Wait. Trying to make himself useful is grounds for hanging in your opinion? WTF? You ARE thinking like a mafiate. And in this case, it's dangerous to the town.

Now for my defenses.

Well, as far as the "This many times" thing, I blatantly said that it was random and that everyone had the same chance, debunking that myself. Now, who said bringing attention was a bad thing? I consider it a valuable point as MORE people look at you when you say something. Hear you out more.
The reverse of that is, you have a nice bed of posts to go back to. My first game, I had trouble with the mafiates with high post counts. It's much easier to find evidence if there are fewer posts to examine. You (or any high poster mafiates) are much more able to hide behind a veil of words.

This isn't an accusation that post count reflects anything, it's actually saying the opposite. Being loud doesn't make you one way or the other. Especially if they are as smart as you.

You think it well to keep out of the limelight, I jump head in. It may be the fact(And this will always be true, no matter what my allignment) that I DO think as a mafiate, or atleast MY version of a mafiate. I refer you to my Inexperienced Mafia post to reassure this.
"You think it well to keep out of the limelight,..." XD Ahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahha XD

Oh, that was a good laugh. Anyway, thinking like a mafiate only helps it actually gives some insight into the way the mafiates are playing. But that is your way of seeming useful to the town, isn't it? Like we couldn't figure out what the mafia was doing without you? (Probably not, I'll admit. But it is an issue I wanted to put out there and be blunt about. I hope you prefer me being honest.)

I'm quite the unorthodox player, as you have seen. My plan of attack and defense has never been the same, no matter the game. I'll say this keeps true as of now, because I never became the catalystic persona before.
The thing is, you catalyzed almost exclusively around yourself. Most of the time, it's two people, one starting and the other picking it up. In this case, it was CmP. THAT is why I'm suspicous of you. One, or both, of you isn't right here.

You, for laying a trap. (Seriously, defending yourself early, then accusing someone who goes for ya? You were drawing yourself into the open. You said you expected someone to accuse you eventually because of it. That kind of comes off as egotisitcal though. You are expecting that? Are your fellow townies so very petty like that? (Again, sorry for the harsh words, but I wish I could plut it less bluntly. I'd also like to state that I wouldn't have made an issue out of it.)) Him, for walking into so obvious a trap. (Up to acknowledgeing it at as a "joke". Which, as he well knows, can be very dangerous for either party.)

I WANTED my starting post to turn on the spotlights, so to say. I like a fast game with activity and I KNEW it needed a catalyst to get off the ground. I took it upon myself to do this and defend myself at the same time. To me, this is reasonable.
To me, it doesn't. What possible point could it serve but to make the first person who accuses you look like a heel? Even if they didn't use that line of thinking, you could say they were. It's basically setting up a trap. Again, you are thinking like a mafiate. Is that really best for the town, that way?

Heh, well, I can't agree with that seeing as I intentionally got it rolling. Again, this would just be tedious to say it again.
No, you were defending yourself. CmP was the first one to vote for you. But now you aren't even focusing on him, you are on B_real. Of course, if he wasn't guilty, then you could always snake it back to CmP. Or conversly, he could say you manipulated it from the start, and get you hung. This is why I'm suspicious of both of you.

Good, I love accusations and doubt placed on me. It gets me on my toes and lets me have fun. Keep em coming, people. I'm here all day and I will respond with the same bravado I always have.
A show of words is just that. Heh. Don't know how I feel about this yet, to be honest.

No no no no no. Being respected has nothing to do with it and should never. Unless you know for a fact our role, than we should have the same position as others, only altered by our performance IN this game.
Yet you are basing your thinking on last games. Mesden, we don't exist in a vacuum. But let's be honest here, if IHateMakingNames was in this game, how long do you think he would last? Why are former town roles are almost always the first night kill? It shouldn't affect things, but it does. By saying, "This is how I acted before", how is that really any different than saying "I've been around the block a few times." Experience is intimidating.

Now, I've already casted my doubt on CmP. He has been pseudo on my side this entire time. ESPECIALLY with the "Don't vote Mesden! This is a joke!" That aroused my suspicion quickly and then his defense of me just kept getting on my nerves.
Yes you have. Like I said before, "back up plan". Isn't it nice when you have mulitple targets. (Yes, I'm aware of the hypocrisy there, but then again, I didn't start this, now did I?)

But, my vote for B_Real is the fact that my accusations go unattended. Therefore, my suspicion was never put to rest in the slightest and it has been pushed by his last act of "Helping".

Take this as you will. He's deserved my vote until I'm convinced otherwise.
Now, I looked back, but couldn't see your vote. Especially since you said at the start of the message, " I've been dangerously close to voting for him this whole time." I don't remember you voting for him. (Newb's vote summary is really obtuse. Sorry, Newb.) If you could kindly point it out, I'd appreciate it.

Again, part of your accusations are that he isn't defending himself. How do you defend yourself from accusations of being quiet? By being useful. At the very least, I think that's what all those numbers are supposed to do.

I had people get suspcious of me when I was loud, but didn't get defensive about it. I merely acknowledged it. (And yeah, someone else entirely said it sounded suspicous who ended up being a townie, so there ya go.)

Again, I never wanted to look like I was defending Mes. In fact, it should be looked at as more self-preserving on my part, because I wasn't aware of the potential backlash that resulted from the joke; If I hadn't disuaded people from voting Mes then it might have snowballed too far and the vote trail would have lead back to me, even though I never meant for it to go that far. So, bottom line, Self-preservation.
Wasn't aware? Yeah right. Again, I think you are far too smart and experienced to make that kind of mistake. I'd hate to use that as a point, but your defense rests on your capability to play, so I'm afraid I have no choice. Of course, the vote trail thing is part of the reason that I think one of you is suspicious. (For more indepth about this, go back up to my responses with Mesden if you just skipped down here.) I'm definitely going to vote for one of you now. One more response each, and then I'll decide.

Silly Kitty, I'm going to assume that you're suspicous of me still because I 'defend' the mafia, which is utter bullshit. I just outlined why known townies would be mafia targets, and I'd ask that you find a post or quote that shows me 'defending' them.
Yet you refuse to acknowledge the sk again. Which is really starting to vex me. But at least you are acknowledging that being a known townie is dangerous.

Vote:B_real

I agree with Mesden's logics entirely, and I just have a bad feeling about him. He seems scummy.
Just how many times have you changed your votes this game? Seriously? YOU JUST VOTED FOR HER! TWICE! What the hell is wrong with you?

You are a danger to the town and everyone in it. Once I figure out Mesden and CmP, I'm going to come after you. You are too easily persueded and dangerous to mafia manipulation.

The Wandering God

[CallmePrismatic]

Wasn't aware? Yeah right. Again, I think you are far too smart and experienced to make that kind of mistake. I'd hate to use that as a point, but your defense rests on your capability to play, so I'm afraid I have no choice.Actually it's my 'experience' that led me to my 'mistake'. On the other mafia-rich forum I go too there's a poster who, like Mes, had a string of anti-townie roles. Over time people would begin every game by voting for the guy, even in games he wasn't even in (and he was actually gone from the forums for six months and the joke still went on), and some even put "Vote: The guy" in their sigs when it became super prevalent. I assumed I could implement a similar joke in the forums, but instead it seems that a joke like that isn't NPF-fare. (For proof that I didn't just fabricate an elaborate cover story, go here (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=406) and look for mentions of Bounty Hunter.)

Yet you refuse to acknowledge the sk again. Which is really starting to vex me. But at least you are acknowledging that being a known townie is dangerous. Acknowledging? I'd like to think I'm championing the notion.

And how should I acknowledge the SK to appease you? Like I said, I don't know how the SK thinks because I've never been in an SK-role, while I know common mafia tricks, so naturally I highlight mafia-tactics. Of course, I'm not alone. Look through the thread and you'll find little discussion of SK-mentality by his/her lonesome, most of the time the SK is only mentioned in the shadow of the mafia (i.e. "We need to find the mafia and SK").

I'm not saying you're wrong on the SK-fixation, (s)he is a major threat to the town along with the mafia, but don't jump on my back for not sharing your zeal.

[P-Sleazy]

For all those wanting to know why I'm not defending myself.

why the fuck should I? Theres no way I can without making up some kinds of bullshit thats obvious crap. You guys think I'm scummy because of my previous actions. Fine. I can't change my previous actions. can either of you change them? no. All I gain from defending myself is a deeper hole dug by someone whose trying to get me lynched (Mesden) and we all know she's capable of it. So I'm gonna let her have her day in the sun, not do anything and see if she can dig me a deeper hole with the same stuff she has.

Once people know your tricks Mesden, their not gonna work anymore. I remember you digging that hole for KBM in //Hack mafia was it? Now I'm not gonna give you the dirt to dig me a hole or to lead me on to dig myself a hole. I'd rather dig it myself without anyones influence THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

[Major Blood]

So basically you are getting on his back because he voted without proper reason? Well hell, let's just lynch Catlover, who as of now, has changed his vote, what? 3 times? 4 times? And his reasons for voting are paper thin at best?

Even though they might not be Mafiates, they are still as dangerous. Voting recklessly can cause as much problems as the serial killer does. That being said, i agree with Mes's logic too so Vote: B_real

[P-Sleazy]

Voting recklessly can cause as much problems as the serial killer does. So I'm voting recklessly? how many times have I voted? 3? 4 times? I'm sorry but that was Catlover. I can count my votes on one finger since I've only voted once.

[Silly Kitty]

B_Real, you are acting kind of silly. If you defend yourself instead of digging a deeper hole you could dig yourself right back out of that hole. I think you are just trying to get lynched so you can take Mes down with you. I don't think you are scummy, and I don't think you will be lynched just because you won't defend yourself. Seriously, what kind of mafia person just wouldn't defend himself?

[Ogianres]

I think this could be a case of WIFOM (http://mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Wine_in_Front_of_Me).
Unfortunately, I can't agree with myself on whether or not B_Real is using WIFOM on purpose, or if it is just an unfortunate side-effect of him not defending himself.

[P-Sleazy]

If you really want me to defend myself Silly Kitty then fine.

Thats a false accusation made my Mesden when she said that I said "Kill me and you'll see" I never said it, nor did I mean to imply it if I did. I already addressed this not too long ago.

Why I'm not defending myself? I also addressed this too. Its Mesden. Not the other 3 people who are bandwagoning off her "because her logic makes sense to them" and CMP who is agreeing with her but somewhat stating his own...oddly similar reasons. Mesden is known to manipulate people. It was how she got KBM lynched in //hack Mafia and probably how she got several other roles killed off in the previous mafia games. Defending against her is useless because she will only contort whatever words you have to defend yourself with against you. Thats right, she'll turn it against you.

Now that I've made this clear, she probably won't turn this against me somehow, might even remove her vote off me to look less suspicious since I've already defended myself like she's been asking me do for quite some time now. Why would she be so eagar to have me defend myself all this time and pointing it out to the town. Its a win-win for her whether I defend myself or not. If I defend myself, she just twists my words against me and has the town vote for me through manipulation. If I don't defend myself, she keeps bringing this up for the town and eventually votes for me after she beleives enough time has gone by that a few people may follow her lead.

I myself, was hoping that the town would be smart enough not to fall for her ploy and it seems like a good bit of you are being reasonable and noticing her ploy. however there are also those of you who have fallen right into her hands and have gone and sided with her.

Finally, a little bit of offense here. Mesden you are one of the greatest threats to the town, even as a townie if you continue to play this game with the mindset of a mafiate. IF you keep playing like this, you're only going to continue having us to lynch townies. If youre a townie, get with the program and be a townie. Dont try to get that inside look of a mafiate because that will only over think things, cloud your mind, and have you finding townies as mafiates.

[Ogianres]

I don't really believe some of your accusations.
First, all these things you are saying seem to only apply if Mesden is in fact scum, when we can't be certain as to whether or not she is mafia, which we can't know for certain right now. I'm going to have to FOS: B_Real. I think the only two things that are keeping me from voting for you is a gut feeling and my intense paranoia. However, your points are still valid, as is TWG's. FOS: Mesden

[Fenris]

I have to say, I mildly agree with B_real on the CmP issue, but I think that he's just looking at the same evidence that Mesden is and drawing the same conclusions.

I'm just going to throw my two cents out there. I think that neither B_real or Mesden is guilty. Although, catlover seems to change his vote whenever the winds change direction.

-------

Catlover's first voting post. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399255&postcount=28)

He voted for Mesden on the grounds that if she wasn't against the town now, she would be later. This much you can tell from reading his post. However, all he would have had to do was check the first post to see if there was a cult. He didn't. This vote was done after it appeared that Mesden was highly on the defensive.

Catlover's next post in the thread. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399490&postcount=46)

He unvoted Mesden, after being confronted with how his argument made no sense.

Once again, his very next post. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399614&postcount=58)

He voted for Mesden again, for FoSing B_real. I did say that she was being extreme, and I think that catlover tried to grasp that as his basis for voting for her.

His next post. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399697&postcount=69)

Pretty self-explanitory. He defended his actions.

The infamous false miscount. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=399716&postcount=72)

His second unvoting of Mesden. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=400760&postcount=127)

This time, the attention was on TWG and B_real, and not on Mesden.

Pinky of Suspicion. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401078&postcount=155)

Math is fishy. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401090&postcount=157)

To quote a crappy TV show: People lie. Numbers don't.

Voting for B_real. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401317&postcount=173)

This is the latest post from catlover. He says now that he agrees with Mesden entirely, even though he's tried to kill her. Twice.

-------

And that's all catlover has had to offer. I think he's acting way too oddly.

FoS: catlover20410

Explain yourself.

[h4x.m4g3]

I suppose I should be more active, I just haven't had anything to say.
Unvote:No Lynch
No one wants a no lynch, we've established that and moved on I know. But before I can vote, I need some more time to think.

Edit: Because FenrisWolf ninja'd me when I was deleting and re-typing and double checking post.

Vote: CatLover20410 Thanks Fenris for pointing out exactly what I've been looking for, someone who's been either
A: Shifting with the winds too much
or
B: Making, everyone look scummy.

Catlover falls under A, and I'm tired of being indecissive.

[Thundergod Cid]

Sorry for not posting in a while, I got behind on the thread and was kind of overwhelmed by the sheer mass of posts. But I'm all caught up now.

First off, I'm not sure how about B_real and Mesden right now. This whole thing between them seems more like two agressive players butting heads than any indication of scumminess. One (or both, since Mesden is involved) of them may be Mafia, but I don't yet see enough suspicious behavior from either of them to warrant a vote.

After thinking it over, I've decided to Vote: Catlover. The fact that he's changing his votes/opinions based on the current mood of the thread (as shown in Fenris's post) sounds to me like a mafiate trying to put his vote on a townie without attracting attention to himself. I'm not entirely convinced that he's scum rather than merely inexperienced, but I think he's the best lead we've got.

[Major Blood]

I dunno, all that's been said about Catlover dosen't say Mafia to me. It says "I'm bad at these games." Either way he's got to go. But since i'm allready voting for someone who falls under the same catagory, my vote stays where it is.

[Sithdarth]

Ok this post is probably not going to sound like its going somewhere but bear with me there is a point here.

Frist, lets go over a few of the common assumptions I believe every townie probably operates under. The first being that everyone, aside from themselves, is a possible threat in one way or another. Next is that the only truely conclusive proof of where someone stands is through some sort of role reveal. This could be PO, or reporter as well in this game, or straight up deaths. There is really no way to be 100% besides that. That is unless you've been getting outside information or the person admits to it publicly. Logically following the first two assumptions is that everyone is scum, as its the safest assumption, and everyone assumes you are scum. Thus, we arrive at a final assumption that no one is going to trust you, completely, without third part varification of your town aligned status.

Now given those assumptions, and the last one in particular, its safe to say actually convincing people to trust you isn't going to be easy. Further, gaining that trust by no means makes you safe from a future lynching. Nor does is that trust in anyway perminate, unless you've been proven town aligned by the PO or Reporter. Even then with lack of actual evidence the only way to gain trust is manipulation. The more covert you are the more likely it is to succeed. The fact remains it is still a form of manipulation no matter how good the intentions behind it.

The conclusion here is that calling someone out for manipulation is counter productive. Generally, if you want people to believe and support you then you are also being manipulative. Manipulation is essentially the only way to play this game until facts come to light. I guess in short just because someone has an agenda they want to get support for doesn't make them scummy in my eyes. That of course is qualified by how logical their reasoning is, and unavoidably that ties into how good they are at manipulation.

As such I am still reserving my vote. When a deadline is posted, and Newb you better not ninja me with a deadline, I shall once again tabulate you if anyone is still innactive. Then I will see if anyone has yet given me reason enough in action to vote for them. Also, despite my dislike for going with the floor there are a few people who, if they are townies, have demonstrated they might be easy to influence. These people are dangerous in the hands of the Mafia. In the absence of a greater threat they are the best option for a lynch.

[P-Sleazy]

I sense a Catlover vote comming from Sithdarth...

to Major blood, I'm bad at these games? that MAY be true, but atleast I give reasoning behind my vote. MY OWN REASONING, however flawed it may seem, I still atleast beleive in my reasoning. Catlover, on the otherhand, as has been mentioned before just goes with the flow of the thread. He has only said "I agree with such and such so I vote: such and such". That my dear friend is MUCH more dangerous to the townie cause than I or Mesden or CMP...possibly all three of us combined for that matter.

[catlover20410]

I do suck horribly at Mafia games. I have nothing resembling social skills.

Also, at first, Mesden seemed scummy. Now, however, B_real is really, REALLY starting to freak me out. He isn't even trying to defend himself, but instead just keeps pointing fingers at me. Because I'm an unstable voter. Which is true. I spend most of my time on the internetz up so late that I can't think straight.

Also, the first Mesden vote was half in jest.

[Silly Kitty]

After Catlover's post and Fenris' confirmation of my suspicion, I will now Vote: Catlover20410. I don't really think he is scummy but he is a threat to the town.

[P-Sleazy]

that was the FIRST time I pointed a finger at you.

The reference to Major blood may count if you want to make it two but that was merely a correction to Majorblood's statement that I'm not the one whose voting wrecklessly. He said one thing about voting wrecklessly and suddenly turns on his own logic and votes for me, whose voted ONCE mind you, again "such and such's logic appeals to me"

[secretskull]

Wait people. Most of you seem to agree that Catlover is most likely not scum, right? What you are saying is that you think he is a townie, but that he is too dangerous to keep, and that we need to get rid of him. Bullshit. There is absolutely no reason for the town to lynch a townie. We already have the mafia, and likely the SK and vig killing a townie each night. If you consider the people who have quit, we cannot sacrifice a townie like this. Even if this wasn’t the case I would still say not to vote for him. Our job as town is to hunt down the mafia, not help them along. Lynching someone we are sure is a townie (even if he votes wildly) is just as bad as not lynching at all, perhaps even worse.

[Mondt]

...

What don't you people understand!?!??!

One vote versus 20* others is not dangerous! Only in bad, bad situations will his vote matter. A danger to the town is a serial killer, or IHMN in last games with his vigilante random-killing. One vote could matter, but most of the time it does not. It's not like he will cause a snowball or anything. His logic-- wait, what logic? See my point? This happens every game I'm in. They think someone is dangerous when he really probably isn't.

*Around there. I odn't know the exact amount because I'm too lazy to check it.

Edit: I forgot the asterisk part of the post.

[Sithdarth]

Well for starters one vote can matter as random voting can allow the mafia to hide. If a townie just votes for the random people its really hard to tell if he's mafiate or not. Also, there is no way to tell if he's just a mafiate trying to throw us all off the track. Additionally, just because we currently think he isn't scum doesn't mean he isn't. Given the choice of potential scum with a dangerous style of play and potential scum that will probably tip their hand later I'd rather get rid of one harder to spot.

Its not like anyone is saying I know he's a townie and I want him dead. Its more I'm not convinced he's evil but I'm willing to risk him being a townie because he's not really helping. So its better we get rid of him instead of someone else we aren't sure of that could actually turn out to be helpfull if they aren't mafia.

[The Wandering God]

I was actually waiting for Mesden to post, so that way I could respond to everything at once. However, I'll just put her and CmP aside right now, and talk about various other things.

I think what we have here is B_Real being intimidated by Mes. Partially by her previous actions, and partially by them here. I've already summarized what I've thought of her above. And since I'm still waiting for her to respond (especially now that B_Real has "defended" himself), I really think we should wait on this a sec. Let's see what she has to say.

As to Catlover... maybe the vig should just take care of him. Yes, he could be a townie. COULD be. Or he could just not have learned his lesson from last time. And he doesn't seem to want to change either. (I can remember multiple times when his voting was commented upon poorly.)

And not voting for him (or otherwise offing him) because he votes randomly? Do you realize what kind of precedent that would set? Suddenly people will be able to say, "Yeah, my votes changed a bit, but not nearly as much as Catlover's and you haven't tried to lynch him." Yeah, that's a smokescreen for the mafia/sk.

The ONLY reason to be worried about lynching him is if he has a town alligned role. But the way he plays, I'm not sure how much he could utilize it.

Soooo, should we just let the Vig take care of him or what?

The Wandering God

[Thundergod Cid]

And not voting for him (or otherwise offing him) because he votes randomly? Do you realize what kind of precedent that would set? Suddenly people will be able to say, "Yeah, my votes changed a bit, but not nearly as much as Catlover's and you haven't tried to lynch him." Yeah, that's a smokescreen for the mafia/sk.
Couldn't agree with this more. Do we really want it established that
I do suck horribly at Mafia games.
is an acceptable response to allegations of suspicious behavior?

[Silly Kitty]

Well, if we let the Vig take care of him we still have to lynch someone. I say we lynch Catlover because he doesn't really know the rules of the game and is just going to vote randomly and be easily swayed. As Darth said that could effect something. I think this all depends on when the deadline is set by the GO.

[Fenris]

Well, if we let the Vig take care of him we still have to lynch someone. I say we lynch Catlover because he doesn't really know the rules of the game and is just going to vote randomly and be easily swayed. As Darth said that could effect something. I think this all depends on when the deadline is set by the GO.
I smell a Jer all over again.

But, he was a bit more direct. He started the finger pointing, whereas catlover20410 is just throwing out votes left and right.

So, I'm going to go with my gut, and after hearing catlover's defense, and not buying it as an acceptable response:

Vote: catlover20410

EDIT: How'sabout we get another vote count. And make it legible, Newb, please?

[DarthMauler64]

Vote: CatLover

He throws his votes around alot but we really have no good leads. I'll be frequently checking up on this thread if new evidence arises, or CatLover has something else to defend himself with.

[Mondt]

I thought we decided it was a bad idea to lynch townies in the last 3 games?

I know we don't know he is a townie, and as DS said, he could well be a mafia. But nobody is lynching him because they think he is a mafia hiding behind a mask of stupidity, theyare lynching him because he in inexperienced.

[Sithdarth]

Right they are lynching him because he could be a mafiate hiding and if he isn't its generally the safest course of action right now. Lesser of two evils and all that.

[The Wandering God]

No, they (and me, since I have to go to work now and don't have more time to think on it) are lynching him because he is dangerous. Why is he dangerous? Easily swayed. He voted for someone TWICE, than switched to vote for the person who his accuser was voting for.

His actions are erratic at best. He isn't helping the town. And he could be mafiate/sk.

Vote: Catlover204010

The Wandering God

[catlover20410]

People. Every townie you lynch is one less Day you have to kill the Mafia off. You all agree that I'm most likely a townie (which I am). Yet you continue to vote for me.

Seriously, people. I'll stop voting if you don't want me to vote. But there's no need to lynch me just because I suck at picking who to vote. I'm erratic because I don't even trust my own voting.

[Sithdarth]

One question if you weren't in anyway sure of who to vote for why did you bother voting? There isn't some rule somewhere that says you have to vote as soon as possible.

Also, just letting you go by without ever having to vote and without us questioning the reason for you not to vote is a bad idea. It'd be a great way for you as a mafiate to get rid of the attention on you now and avoid any further attention. You'd have a pass to say, "Well all you guys agreed that I shouldn't do anything so I must be innocent." That would actually make you more dangerous without the PO investigating you and telling us your role. That of course would expose the PO, detective in this game, and its just not worth it. The reporter is an option but I'm still not sure if Newb reasigned the role or not he hasn't really said anything clear on the subject.

[DarthMauler64]

Insightful Reporter Patrat has left the game.

A civilian will recieve his role tonight.

While Neyo was on earlier, it was to state that he had forgotten he had signed up, mention that he was on hiatus, and request that he be dropped. His vigilante role will be given to somebody else. Or possibly not. I'll send both freefloating roles through a random generator, with them landing on nobody as a valid option.

Combining these two posts, I think Newb is going to reassign them during Night, but there is a possibility of no one getting the role.

[Sithdarth]

Well damn I didn't read that first post carefully enough. Thanks for pointing that out.

[P-Sleazy]

Seriously Newb...this may be good to post up an updated vote count and a deadline that isnt "hey, more votes for this guy. He's dead. night starts." That would be great wouldn't it? Letting us lynch catlover without knowing the deadline. he has 6 votes on him(wihtin past 40 posts), I thiink I have 5 on me (If I remember correctly), theres also one vote for mesden (from me...still).

Thats all the votes I can remember guys. I'll check the thread thoroughly and expect full vote count within minutes. Nice job Newb. you got me doing your job for you :sweatdrop

EDIT! GHASP!

Here be the vote count as is.

Crazyben
Secretskull

B_Real_Shadows <- Thats me btw
CMP
Mesden
Crazyben
Catlover
Major Blood

Catlover
H4x.M4g3
Thundergod Cid
Silly Kitty
Fenris Wolf
Darth Mauler 64
The Wandering God

Mesden
B_Real_Shadows (GHASP! I'm still voting for her!)

No Lynch
Supreme Edgemaster

The votes for each person are placed in chronological order meaning the higher you are on the list of voting for something, the sooner you voted before other people meaning, in the case of Catlover's votes, Silly Kitty posted before all the people below her, but after the 2 above her.

Hope this helps and is...more legible than Newbs.

[The Wizard Who Did It]

First and foremost, I apologize about my extreme laziness as far as this game is concerned. I can’t really say that I haven’t posted because some real life things have gotten in the way, I’m just a lazy bastard. Plus, I always get the feeling that I don’t really need to say anything because somebody may say it in my stead. And if no one else does, then it was too crazy to matter anyway.

On with actually getting something done! Vote: Catlover

Reasons have been previously stated, for the most part. I don’t really agree that he’s a threat as a sporadic voter, but he definitely could be using it as a cover. From my memory, Catlover is kind of a vet at this game. He isn’t necessarily awesome at the game, but he’s been in one or two of them. As such, he should know that if you don’t provide complete evidence for your actions if they’re as random as his have been, then you are under the threat of being lynched. However, if my memory serves, the people with the random votes have just been confused vanilla townies. Therefore, he would expect somebody to use that as cover to defend him. This cover could be in the form of a concerned townie, or possibly a mafiate if he is in the mafia.

Now, another part of this game that seems to be… useful but unused are clues. I asked Newb about them, and he said, in this thread, that he may or may not put clues in. Therefore, I took a minute of my time to come up with some farfetched theories that I don’t consider to be gospel, just food for thought. If anything, this should be amusing rather than actually helpful. As far as actually trying to dig up random clues goes, I looked at the mafia killing scene.

In this scene, there is not a whole lot that goes on. The only significant part in this scene is the five bullets. Now, this either means that one mafiate shot the guy five times or all five of the mafia shot him once. Symbolically, the idea of all five mafia shooting one guy shows equality. None of the mafia is better than the others, no single veteran hit man is sent for the kill. In game, this could either mean that all of the mafia are newbies or they are all vets. However, that’s going into very abstract concepts that are probably nothing.

Another such symbolism is relating the number five to peoples names. This would not be unlike in the first mafia where Incendius said he would take a stab at the game, and the first victim was knifed. The only person who I saw had relation to the number five was Catlover, who has five numbers in his name. Again, this is so obscure it’s probably untrue.

Before someone lynches me for such random ideas or for possibly knowing too much, keep in mind that when I thought of this I was bored. Not bored enough to post in this thread, but bored. So if you don’t take it as crazy talk, just take it as some mildly amusing idea that has no relation to the game.

[Bailey]

Deadline is monday noon est.

if it is tied at that point, the deadline will be extended by six hours

[Ogianres]

Although I fear I may be joining a scum bandwagon, but I fear more that we could miss scum if we choose not to vote, so VOTE: Catlover.

[catlover20410]

Dammit, why do I even bother playing these things. I lack all the social skills neccesary to 'blend in'.

I'm a townie. Several of you believe that I'm a townie. And yet you are voting for me. Seriously, wtf?

[P-Sleazy]

if it helps Catlover, I'm not voting for you, althought it seems you'll die without my help. :D

[DarthMauler64]

I'm starting to have second thoughts about lynching CatLover. True, he votes sporadicly, but he probally is a townie...

If someone else is willing to unvote CatLover to give him some more time to explain or point us to someone more deserving to lynch and tie the vote, I will too...

[Mondt]

Wasn't CmP saying earlier, that any townie lost is bad? Most of you are saying "He probably a townie, but he's dangerous!" Just like Jeramiahcron, right? Who wasn't dangerous at all? Yeah. So, if he's a townie who gets swayed easily, his vote will only matter in a tie. If it's a tie, that means that he will be on a side of a decent argument. Think harder about it.

[catlover20410]

My only defense is that I have a lot of IRL stuff going on that is distracting me. I'm getting ready to move, I'm having some big dental issues (a filling broke, and I still have to get a crown put on this root canal.), and it's getting close to the end of the school year. I'm not thinking that straight at the moment. Go easy on me, 'K?

[DarthMauler64]

Yeah. So, if he's a townie who gets swayed easily, his vote will only matter in a tie. If it's a tie, that means that he will be on a side of a decent argument. Think harder about it.

My small brain is confused. Are you saying that CatLover will be helpful in a tie, or not helpful in a tie? That "Think Harder" at the end is confusing me the most.

[catlover20410]

I think what he's saying is that I'll only MATTER in a tie, and if it's a tie that means that both sides probably have good reasons so I probably won't screw things up too much.

'I think' being the operative words.

[Silly Kitty]

Guys, I think you should check the deadline. What are the chances that we can rally the votes together and get another person to lynch by tomorrow? Would you guys rather lynch B_Real or Catlover?

[Ogianres]

I would rather have more time to find someone who may seem a better lynch. But as is, I believe that Catlover is the most dangerous today.

[Mondt]

I think what he's saying is that I'll only MATTER in a tie, and if it's a tie that means that both sides probably have good reasons so I probably won't screw things up too much.

'I think' being the operative words.He's got it about right. If he is easily swayed, than it's one argument or another. 1 vote only matters in the even of a tie. Either that, or creating a tie. If it does come down to a tie, then, like catlover said, both sides will probably have decent reasons. So, he really isn't hurting or helping, I guess. Not many ways to explain it... :shifty:

I dunno. That's what I was trying to say earlier. I'm not sure if keeping him around will do good later or not. Like Sith said, we're not even sure he's a townie. My argument is that most of you said he is. I'm not really defending him on purpose, just pointing out faulty reasoning. One thing leads to another.

[catlover20410]

I don't care, defense is defense.


If you guys actually think I'm a Mafiate or that I'm the SK, go ahead, kill my face off. But don't do it because I'm 'dangerous' because my votes are 'erratic'. Sheesh.

[The Wandering God]

What, so you shouldn't be help accountable for your actions?

It IS dangerous. You voted for Mesden TWICE, then voted for the person Mesden was accusing. It means that you can't be trusted.

And again, it sets a bad precedent. Being so easy to vote and change votes is NOT something that is good for the town. Discourse is.

B_real, on the other hand, has only voted once so far. And I think he walked into a trap. Set either by Mesden or CmP.

Speaking of which, where the hell is Mesden?

The Wandering God

[P-Sleazy]

Maybe she got caught on her own ploy and is hoping to dissappear into the darkness till its mostly forgotten before emerging again? Who can say. RL issues? Toilet problems? Internet gone down?

After bugging me so much for me to defend myself, I would atleast think she would atleast say SOMETHING.

[Mesden]

I'm sorry for my absence guys. I was in a fairly bad car accident and banged my head up well enough to put me in the hospital for a couple days and when I got home, I wasn't up to doing anything computer related.

I'll go back over the thread and read up on things. Again, sorry about the absence.

------------------------------------------------------------------

*Sigh*

To kick it off…

Maybe she got caught on her own ploy and is hoping to dissappear into the darkness till its mostly forgotten before emerging again? Who can say. RL issues? Toilet problems? Internet gone down?

After bugging me so much for me to defend myself, I would atleast think she would atleast say SOMETHING.

Yeaaahhh… Sorry, but I will NEVER fade into the background. That takes away the point of the game again. Anytime you see my name alive on a Mafia list, expect that game to be moving right along and me to have a good few posts.


Next…

If you really want me to defend myself Silly Kitty then fine.

Thats a false accusation made my Mesden when she said that I said "Kill me and you'll see" I never said it, nor did I mean to imply it if I did. I already addressed this not too long ago.

Heh, sorry if I misread it. It just REALLY seemed that way to me. Also, that did not influence me voting for you, honestly. Though it did enforce it a bit more.

Why I'm not defending myself? I also addressed this too. Its Mesden. Not the other 3 people who are bandwagoning off her "because her logic makes sense to them" and CMP who is agreeing with her but somewhat stating his own...oddly similar reasons. Mesden is known to manipulate people. It was how she got KBM lynched in //hack Mafia and probably how she got several other roles killed off in the previous mafia games. Defending against her is useless because she will only contort whatever words you have to defend yourself with against you. Thats right, she'll turn it against you.

Mhhm. Let’s keep reading, shall we?

Now that I've made this clear, she probably won't turn this against me somehow, might even remove her vote off me to look less suspicious since I've already defended myself like she's been asking me do for quite some time now. Why would she be so eagar to have me defend myself all this time and pointing it out to the town. Its a win-win for her whether I defend myself or not. If I defend myself, she just twists my words against me and has the town vote for me through manipulation. If I don't defend myself, she keeps bringing this up for the town and eventually votes for me after she beleives enough time has gone by that a few people may follow her lead.

Uh huh… So, you defend your reason for not defending yourself and then state the reasons behind MOST actions I could make? Look who’s being manipulative now…

I myself, was hoping that the town would be smart enough not to fall for her ploy and it seems like a good bit of you are being reasonable and noticing her ploy. however there are also those of you who have fallen right into her hands and have gone and sided with her.

Alright, stop making it like I’m some ultimate evil and you’re helpless to defend yourself. You’re NEVER helpless. I mean…Psycho Mantis…*Shudder*

Finally, a little bit of offense here. Mesden you are one of the greatest threats to the town, even as a townie if you continue to play this game with the mindset of a mafiate. IF you keep playing like this, you're only going to continue having us to lynch townies. If youre a townie, get with the program and be a townie. Dont try to get that inside look of a mafiate because that will only over think things, cloud your mind, and have you finding townies as mafiates.

Alright. It seems my “I think like a mafiate” words were taken a bit to heart and a bit out of the meant context.

I’ll refer back to one of Sith’s posts (Excuse my lack of searching for it) that ALL this game is manipulation. Just different kinds of it.

My main experience is with Mafia manipulation, so, I DO take some thought process about that. Though, I’m fairly sure my plan isn’t “Manipulate the town into killing off their best players while we weed them out as well while concealing our innocence.”

BUT, I will not lie and say I don’t manipulate words and posts to my advantage. Anyone would if they could do it when the person is VOTING for you so quickly. Town or no, you want what you’re saying to be more meaningful, especially if that is against someone you have genuine suspicion for.

I’ve seen people calling me “Too Smart” to do something or just calling me smart in general. Thanks for that, but never, EVER rule out a possibility of someone doing something. Of all people, ME!

Now, I will unvote: B_Real . He said why he didn’t defend himself. Obviously he is scared of me. But now I wish for him to respond to the accusations I set forth, not just why he didn’t defend himself. If you REALLY want me to, I will go back in the thread and quote the post. But, I’m tired and it’s taking a lot out of me to do this.

On to the Catlove situation.

You people give the shoddiest reasons. Or atleast most of you. I’m glad someone had the sense to say that a random voter is NOT a threat. It will never be. And I’ll defend IHMN’s voting style the same way I did in SP. Don’t condemn someone for their style of play, do it for what they say with it. (This is an opinion, though)

If everyone liked to random vote or bandwagon and I stayed the same, would you vote me for it? Yes. You would. The same logic applies to IHMN and a bit towards Catlover.

Now, he DOES set a bad precedent. I believe that TWG said this first (Sorry if I’m wrong about this). I agree wholeheartedly with this. The veil possibility is something to note as well. Also, I believe I said this WAY earlier on. Something like using inexperience for an excuse about how you vote.

I’ll not vote for Catlover out of SHEER belief of his lack of game mechanics (Or etiquette to be more precise, as he has followed the rules as far as I can tell and mechanics is a bit of a broad concept.)

The only people I consider vote worthy so far are CmP and B_Real. Catlover, he’s half and half with me.

And so my belated post ends…

[The Wandering God]

Actually Mesden if you could just answer some of the points in this post (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401340&postcount=174), I'd feel much more comfortable. I still haven't given up on examining you and CmP, and your response would be appreciated.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

Sure. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, GO!

So basically you are getting on his back because he voted without proper reason? Well hell, let's just lynch Catlover, who as of now, has changed his vote, what? 3 times? 4 times? And his reasons for voting are paper thin at best?

No, sorry, I don't buy that. And trying to compound via his lack of defense? Which was probably closer to "Well, boy, I screwed up." I don't think he is defending himself, because well, it's hard to use the "I screwed up" defense, as that seems to get a person killed pretty quickly. Whether they were innocent or not. (I've seen it both ways, from my perspective anyway.)

I voted for him for the REASON why he did it. And then my other accusations that went without a viable defense for. (This already settled until his next post)


Wait. Trying to make himself useful is grounds for hanging in your opinion? WTF? You ARE thinking like a mafiate. And in this case, it's dangerous to the town.

Not for BEING helpful, per se. But the fact that he ducked most of everything I said and came back with other info. Possibly to take the NEGATIVE attention from him. Go back and I believe I stated this. The other possibilities being I didn’t say this or you missed that point.


The reverse of that is, you have a nice bed of posts to go back to. My first game, I had trouble with the mafiates with high post counts. It's much easier to find evidence if there are fewer posts to examine. You (or any high poster mafiates) are much more able to hide behind a veil of words.

But I also have a slew of posts that can be brought up AGAINST me. You never know when a good idea in the past can com back to hurt you,
This isn't an accusation that post count reflects anything, it's actually saying the opposite. Being loud doesn't make you one way or the other. Especially if they are as smart as you.

Um…thank you?

"You think it well to keep out of the limelight,..." XD Ahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahha XD

Well, this was SHEERLY off the context of your post, mind you. Go back and read it and you’ll see why. Not off YOUR style, necessarily.

Oh, that was a good laugh. Anyway, thinking like a mafiate only helps it actually gives some insight into the way the mafiates are playing. But that is your way of seeming useful to the town, isn't it? Like we couldn't figure out what the mafia was doing without you? (Probably not, I'll admit. But it is an issue I wanted to put out there and be blunt about. I hope you prefer me being honest.)

Addressed, I believe.


The thing is, you catalyzed almost exclusively around yourself. Most of the time, it's two people, one starting and the other picking it up. In this case, it was CmP. THAT is why I'm suspicous of you. One, or both, of you isn't right here.

You, for laying a trap. (Seriously, defending yourself early, then accusing someone who goes for ya? You were drawing yourself into the open. You said you expected someone to accuse you eventually because of it. That kind of comes off as egotisitcal though. You are expecting that? Are your fellow townies so very petty like that? (Again, sorry for the harsh words, but I wish I could plut it less bluntly. I'd also like to state that I wouldn't have made an issue out of it.)) Him, for walking into so obvious a trap. (Up to acknowledgeing it at as a "joke". Which, as he well knows, can be very dangerous for either party.)

Yes, yes they are. Since it was brought up SO many times, I believed and still believe it would have been brought up. Also, it wasn’t so much a trap as something I knew needed addressing and I knew I would get a good bit of response to. I didn’t QUITE expect a vote for it so easily.

To me, it doesn't. What possible point could it serve but to make the first person who accuses you look like a heel? Even if they didn't use that line of thinking, you could say they were. It's basically setting up a trap. Again, you are thinking like a mafiate. Is that really best for the town, that way?

Mafia thinking addressed and the trap issue as well.


No, you were defending yourself. CmP was the first one to vote for you. But now you aren't even focusing on him, you are on B_real. Of course, if he wasn't guilty, then you could always snake it back to CmP. Or conversly, he could say you manipulated it from the start, and get you hung. This is why I'm suspicious of both of you.

Quite. Though, I DID state the first Anti-CmP points, I believe. And just for that very reason. I’m waiting for B_Real as of now before I tell you who is on the top of my list. B_Real gave his reasons why not to defend, I responded and nothing can (Well, should, really) be decided until he replies.


A show of words is just that. Heh. Don't know how I feel about this yet, to be honest.

I can see you love the game too. ^^


Yet you are basing your thinking on last games. Mesden, we don't exist in a vacuum. But let's be honest here, if IHateMakingNames was in this game, how long do you think he would last? Why are former town roles are almost always the first night kill? It shouldn't affect things, but it does. By saying, "This is how I acted before", how is that really any different than saying "I've been around the block a few times." Experience is intimidating.

I HATE the automatic suspicion of IHMN, mind you. And I didn’t ever consider my intimidation until B_Real brought it up. Do I really intimidate people? How so? I’m a known, manipulative player for sure. But that really doesn’t warrant being intimidated, does it?


Yes you have. Like I said before, "back up plan". Isn't it nice when you have mulitple targets. (Yes, I'm aware of the hypocrisy there, but then again, I didn't start this, now did I?)

“Targets”. Right, multiple targets. No, I didn’t expect most of what has happened. I didn’t expect CmP to go through with the joke AFTER I stated my defense. He did. I did not expect B_Real to ACTUALLY VOTE off something as baseless as he did. I didn’t expect CmP’s pseudo-support of me this whole time.

But it happened. And it’s damned suspicious to me. That gives me two people on my list that I believe over all others are scum. So yes, I have two targets. But so do you. CmP and I to be precise. We just go about our suspicions differently. Hypocrisy, you stated it already. I hope what I said answers you.




Now, I looked back, but couldn't see your vote. Especially since you said at the start of the message, " I've been dangerously close to voting for him this whole time." I don't remember you voting for him. (Newb's vote summary is really obtuse. Sorry, Newb.) If you could kindly point it out, I'd appreciate it.

Here ya go. Middle of the post. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=401205&postcount=161)

Again, part of your accusations are that he isn't defending himself. How do you defend yourself from accusations of being quiet? By being useful. At the very least, I think that's what all those numbers are supposed to do.

No, it’s not JUST being quiet. It’s being quiet about being accused. He was accused, went quiet and accused for that as well.

I had people get suspcious of me when I was loud, but didn't get defensive about it. I merely acknowledged it. (And yeah, someone else entirely said it sounded suspicous who ended up being a townie, so there ya go.)

I don’t happen to live in New York and have a red beard, do I?

I think that’s all of it pertaining to me. If I missed a part of it, please tell me. I’m still a bit out of it and assistance on what I missed would be greatly appreciated. I ALWAYS respond if I know about it.

EDIT: A quoting problem. Sorry about that

[Mondt]

Do you guys know how undercover cops work? They think like criminals. They dress like them, they act like them, they have teh same mindset. In the end, are they criminals? Do they end up robbing the local 7-11? No. They arrest the guys that do. Why is it that when Mesden thinks like a mafiate, she is instantly a mafiate?

[Fenris]

Do you guys know how undercover cops work? They think like criminals. They dress like them, they act like them, they have teh same mindset. In the end, are they criminals? Do they end up robbing the local 7-11? No. They arrest the guys that do. Why is it that when Mesden thinks like a mafiate, she is instantly a mafiate?
Well, she isn't.

But, it leads people to think that she doesn't know how to play as a good guy, and as such, will twist innocent's words against them.

I agree with you, though.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: By "Well, she isn't" I meant that just because she thinks like a mafiate, that doesn't make her one. That is how I clarify that post.

[Silly Kitty]

It is a bit different when you think and act like a mafiate. As a mafiate you set traps unlike a PO would. A regular townie may not be able to get out of these traps even if he is innocent.

[The Wandering God]

Do you guys know how undercover cops work? They think like criminals. They dress like them, they act like them, they have teh same mindset. In the end, are they criminals? Do they end up robbing the local 7-11? No. They arrest the guys that do. Why is it that when Mesden thinks like a mafiate, she is instantly a mafiate?
Noooooo, undercovercops are undercover to infiltrate criminal organizations. Noone can secretly join the mafia. Anything that game breaking had better be mentioned in the rules.

Mes thinking like a mafiate though, doesn't really help though. Mafiates only need to make somone else LOOK guilty. As a matter of fact, they have to do so, in spite of them knowing that person is innocent.

Townies have to find someone guilty out of a crowd of innocents.

I'm trying to say that the play style really doesn't translate well.

And having put some thought into it, I'm now more suspicous of CmP. I know he said he was basically making a joke, but it would have been better to vote for her when she wasn't in the game, or died the first night or something. THEN it would obviously be a joke.

Now he has a reasonable excuse for his actions, but really, I'm not too sure how I feel about him trying to use that as a reason for voting. (Voting is serious business, as he well knows.)

And now Skeletons post that actually sounds like something a serial killer would say (infiltrating another group, only to turn on them), combined with his current avatar and title of "face of a killer", is influencing me in a very superficial sort of way.

Anyway, isn't it supposed to be night soon?

The Wandering God

[Thundergod Cid]

And now Skeletons post that actually sounds like something a serial killer would say (infiltrating another group, only to turn on them), combined with his current avatar and title of "face of a killer", is influencing me in a very superficial sort of way.
There is no Serial Killer in this game.
Anyway, isn't it supposed to be night soon?
I think so. Newb said that today at noon was the deadline, so it seems that Catlover is officially today's lynch and we're just waiting for Newb to post the death scene and his role.

EDIT - Whee, I'm an idiot. I misread Newb's post with the roles and didn't see the SK, so ignore that first part of my post.

[Fenris]

There is no Serial Killer in this game.
*buzzer noise*

There is indeed, a Serial Killer.

[P-Sleazy]

No, it’s not JUST being quiet. It’s being quiet about being accused. He was accused, went quiet and accused for that as well

I'm assuming that was aimed at me. Already dealt with as to why I went quiet. Didn't want words and such twisted against me.

I did not expect B_Real to ACTUALLY VOTE off something as baseless as he did

I'm assuming this is the accusation you wanted me to defend against? Already gave my reasoning in the post with the vote in it. Something along the lines of you defending yourself right off the bat.

Woulda been easier to just see if your history actually DOES influence our minds about you. Mind you, MOST of us should know that each game is independent of others in terms of the alignment we recieve, and so, you shouldn't have worried, especially since when it was done, it was said in the same post that it was a joke (I'm pretty sure CmP said it in the same post). You saying that we shouldn't be voting for you based on your previous record was just so...wrong. You just went off on a wild goose chase protecting yourself from a threat that wasn't even there to start with.

[Thundergod Cid]

*buzzer noise*

There is indeed, a Serial Killer.

And I already edited my post to reflect that. I got the Cult and the Serial Killer mixed up, thinking that the SK was absent in this game, when it's actually the Cult that's gone.

[Mesden]

Well, it's newb's birthday. So I don't think he will post it as he probably won't be on the computer.

I wonder why he set the deadline FOR his birthday. Maybe to speed the game along?



EDIT!: B_Real, um, no. My accusation was...well, my ACTUAL accusations that were made. You gave reasons for your vote.

Also, wild goose chase? I HAVE EXPLAINED THIS SEVERAL TIMES! Your opinion on potential threat is NOT the same as mine and you're acting like it is.

That's a load of BS if I ever saw one.

You're basically saying...

"I don't think it was a real possibility to be an accusation." when I say "I think it was."

So, your opposite opinion on something that DID happen warranted a vote?

[P-Sleazy]

give us an extra day maybe?

EDIT: Number of votes between me and Catlover is now 4. I have 4 votes and Catlover has 8

Double Edit to Mesden: We have a difference of oppinion then as to what a threat is, now don't we?

[Fenris]

And I already edited my post to reflect that. I got the Cult and the Serial Killer mixed up, thinking that the SK was absent in this game, when it's actually the Cult that's gone.
'Kay. I merely said that:

There is a Serial Killer in this game.

And you hadn't edited your post until after I posted, so we can't exactly expect me to have known you had edited it, or for you to know I posted.

[Mondt]

To clarify, my avatar is of Sasuke in Naruto when <spoiler>four sound ninjas try to convince him ot gain power by using his memories of his brothers as a tool. When he remembers him, this face turns on.</spoiler>. It has nothing to do with this game, in any way, shape, or form.

Also, the undercover cop thing was a distant example, although still applicable to this situation. Not entirely, but it still kind of works. The meaning behind it was that she isn't necessarily a mafiate for thinking like one, as an undercover cop isn't a criminal for thinking like one.

Edit: Spelling mistake.

[Mesden]

In case you missed this B_Real, as it was an edit to a ninja maneuver...



EDIT!: B_Real, um, no. My accusation was...well, my ACTUAL accusations that were made. You gave reasons for your vote.

Also, wild goose chase? I HAVE EXPLAINED THIS SEVERAL TIMES! Your opinion on potential threat is NOT the same as mine and you're acting like it is.

That's a load of BS if I ever saw one.

You're basically saying...

"I don't think it was a real possibility to be an accusation." when I say "I think it was."

So, your opposite opinion on something that DID happen warranted a vote?

[Supreme Edgemaster]

Sorry guys. I have to drop out. I just can't handle this many posts and players at once. I'll stick with the inexperienced version until I know what to do. Sorry again.

[Bailey]

The townsfolk bickered for some time, looking from B_real to Catlover and back, but they finally made their decision.

"Catlover, you're just too dangerus to keep around"

"But I'm using the vote! I'm patriotic, see?"

"You're using it wrong, now get up there."

Catlover was dragged to the gallows and hung, a gun falling out of his pocket. When someone checked it, it turned out to be engraved with mafia symbols.

As the people left to go to their homes for the night, the cleaning staff came around and picked up a silver gun and a notepad. The notepad was dropped into a nearby mailbox, and the silver gun was brought to the post office lost and found.

It is now Night 1, only Catlover may post.

[catlover20410]

Goddammit. *joins the lynched-on-first-day club*

DAMMIT SILLY KITTY, DAMMIT MESDEN, DAMMIT TWG, AND DAMN ALL OF THE REST OF YOU WHO VOTED FOR ME. GO TO HELL.

What, you were expecting a poem? Maybe something like that one over in SoL Mafia that ended "But dammit Mesden, did you have to make me a girl?!"?

Fat chance. I liked that gun too, dammit.

I'll still be watching this game. And a word to my fellow Mafiates: I hope that you do a better job staying hidden than I did.

Newb, for the love of god. USE THE FUCKING COLORS.

[Bailey]

Everyone is woken up the next morning to hear a small boy with a bundle of papers shouting.

"EXTRA EXTRA!"

"Read all about it! Talkative Civilian Mesden was attacked last night! The Serial Killer came after her and she was only saved by the heroic efforts of the Doctor!"

**********

Once everyone is awake, they find SithDarth on the ground, dead. A knife is a short distance from his body and there are four bullet wounds in him.

[Silly Kitty]

So, that means Mes is a townie. I would have never guessed Darth to be the SK though.

Edit: Catlover, you don't have to get so mad. It is only a game.

[catlover20410]

I'm going to assume I'm still allowed to make non-game related posts and say this:

I wasn't serious.

[DarthMauler64]

We got a awesome bodyguard! Two for two!!!

So...here are the people that didn't vote for CatLover and aren't confirned townies or dead.

CMP
Crazyben
Major Blood
SecretSkull
B_real

So lets start here.

EDIT: "Talkative" Civlian? What's that personality do exactally?

[The Wizard Who Did It]

EDIT: "Talkative" Civlian? What's that personality do exactally?
Too tired to say anything else... but I'm going to GUESS that it has to do with conversing. If someone converses with people a lot...

I'm just going to go off on a limb and scream that it's the new Mason.

[Fenris]

Too tired to say anything else... but I'm going to GUESS that it has to do with conversing. If someone converses with people a lot...

I'm just going to go off on a limb and scream that it's the new Mason.
Yeah, it is.

So... the Serial Killer was SithDarth? Never saw that coming...

EDIT: Were the Reporter and Vig reassigned?

[Ogianres]

Well the reporter was reassigned but either the vig didn't get reassigned or if someone got it they didn't use their night role. I certainly didn't notice anything last night.

[P-Sleazy]

hey hey hey, I was voting for Mesden at the time. And not voting for Catlover honestly can't be seen as incriminating coming from the person who said I'm starting to have second thoughts about lynching CatLover


And not meaning to defend anyone else but the first 3 on that list voted for me (due to mesden's reasoning) and Secret Skull voted for Crazy Ben (for the no lynch vote). Just an FYI on where those votes stood.