READ THIS, you slack-jawed idiots, or THE NEW CONSOLE WARS, z0MG! [Archive]

Bells

05-25-2006, 04:47 PM

This belongs here so much...

http://www.wii60.com/uploads/179.gif

Also, Editing to add info without double post!

PROCESSOR

XBOX 360
3.2 GHz IBM PowerPC tri-core codenamed "Xenon"
115 GFLOPS
9.6 billion dot products per second

Wii
"Broadway" (IBM)

PS3
Cell (POWER-based PPE with seven 3.2 GHz SPEs)
218 GFLOPS
18 billion dot products per second

Memory

XBOX 360
512 MB GDDR3 @ 700 MHz shared between CPU & GPU
10 MB Embedded eDRAM

Wii
1T-SRAM by MoSys
512 MB of flash memory

PS3
256 MB XDR @ 3.2 GHz
256 MB GDDR3 @ 700 MHz

GPU

XBOX 360
500 MHz codenamed "Xenos" (ATI custom design)
1 TFLOPS (system theoretical)
96 billion shader operations per second
24 billion dot products per second
Unified Shaders, SM3.0+
10 MB eDRAM (internal bandwidth of 256GB/s)

Wii
Hollywood (ATI)

PS3
550 MHz RSX (based on NVIDIA G70 architecture)
1.8 TFLOPS (theoretical)
74.8 billion shader operations per second (100 billion with CPU)
28.6 billion dot products per second
Distinct Pixel & Vertex Shaders, SM3.0

NEtwork

XBOX 360
100BASE-TX (100 Mbit/s) Ethernet
Optional 802.11a/b/g Wi-Fi

Wii
Optional Ethernet via USB 2.0 Adapter
Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g

PS3
1000BASE-T Ethernet
Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g (60 GB model built-in, 20 GB model via optional adapter)

Video Output

XBOX 360
VGA, Component, S-Video, Composite, RF,SCART

Wii
Component, S-Video, Composite

PS3
Component, S-Video, Composite,PSP
HDMI (60 GB model only)

Storage

XBOX 360
SATA 20 GB hard drive Removivel (13 GB Free) (Premium model only)

Wii
512MB built-in flash memory

PS3
Upgradable 2.5" SATA 20 GB or 60 GB hard drive

Operational System

XBOX 360
Xbox 360 Dashboard

Wii
Unknow

PS3
Cross Media Bar
Linux

Homebrew possibilities

XBOX 360
No

Wii
No info

PS3
Yes

Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope

05-25-2006, 08:35 PM

BS Minion, that Picture is awesome.

ElfLad

05-25-2006, 10:19 PM

Oh, I'm definitely getting the Wii first. Opening day, if possible. One, the price is AWESOME, especially considering that it's less than half, and possibly a third of the PS3's price. Two, Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, SSB:B and a plethora of other games that have grabbed my interest. Three, virtual console. I'm aware of ROMs and have used them for unfindable games, but my hands cannot adapt to a keyboard for games that were originally programmed for a controller. Chrono Trigger, SMRPG, and Earthbound, I'm coming for you.

Xbox360 is a maybe, but my friend, and possible roommate in college, is getting one, so if we do turn out to be roommates, I won't need to get one for myself.

PS3... I want to say no, but third parties are cruel mistresses. Nonetheless, I will not be getting this for a while under any circumstances.

Dammit, Third parties, why can't you program for the consoles I like?

Magus

05-25-2006, 10:39 PM

"Check out our new and improved loading times! Yeehaw!"

HAHAHA, yeah, that was one thing the GC and XBOX didn't really have, loading times. And yet my PS2 library is largest. Ah, the third-parties...

So, MGS4. The only reason thus far to get a PS3, unless there are still fans of Final Fantasy there and about, I mean, I still like it and have high hopes for FFXII, but FFXIII looks a tad too much like FFX-2 thus far. I know, I know, there's only been screenshots, but they DO NOT LIE, do they? It's a sassy heroine with pistols tearing up a VERY futuristic looking place. It portents of things that make me shudder.

Thus far MGS4 DOES look like a reason to get the PS3, WHEN IT IS CHEAPER, to me. BUT again, third-parties support it highest...

BUT Kojima says he wants to make games for the Wii, too. BUT he has also says he'd rather they were original and not MGS spin-offs or ports.

So it's up in the air there, except the terrible price, I haven't yet heard someone say it was a good price in any way and I go to enough forums to gather the info on it. Some will go as far as to say it is good as far as the value of the BlueRay technology, but then say they don't care about HD enough to pay for it, so yeah, no one likes the price.

And no, no one talks about the XBOX 360 anymore, unless they're fanboys annoyed that they're making games that aren't Halo 3. The general consensus by XBOX fanboys is that Bungie shouldn't have anything original on the plate (their RTS game) and should just stick to making Halo sequels. Me, I'm no uber-Halo fan, but there are a lot of games I'd like for XBOX but I never got one, mainly the Oddworld games, which I assume are going to be on the XBOX 360, along with other unique games...

Bells

05-25-2006, 10:54 PM

i still say that i would find weird if sony didnt expanded its scope on the midia they use...

Since the PSX they do this... with the Cd that was also for reaing audio cd's, then with the DVD who also played movies... then for the bluray...

What benefits from bigger an better midia are the games and gamers first

Magus

05-25-2006, 11:20 PM

Yes, but most people use their PC for stuff that the PS3 is advertising, and it's only advertising the five most popular things to do with a PC, none of the million other things you can do with it, and think they can charge the same price as a decent new PC. What some people, console gamers, don't do with their PC is play games. So I think Sony is a bit off the mark on this. It's NICE to have all of those extras, but when they replace the main reason for the machine and affect the price, it's time to cut back a bit.

NorthDragoon

05-26-2006, 10:42 AM

Well, as for PS3's somewhat silly price...

I believe Sony may be trying to "covar thar arses, yar" with the price. They are pretty much relying on PS3 for their Blu-Ray disc's success, and they want to make sure they get the "muchos grandes deneros" to make up for R&D (that's Research and Development for us less edumacated types) of both the PS3 and Blu-ray technology.

Personally I think Sony's going to take a serious hit, what with 360 and HDDVD already out, not to mention Wii's much lower price...

I heard from the rumor plantations (I don't care what you say, I refuse to believe in "rumor mills") that the PS3 is rather difficult to program for, so this make me think that some of the third party developers will get smrt and go to other consoles that are both easier to program for and cheaper to develop content for. This might be shown to a slight degree with some of the big names, Square-Enix seems to be working on another Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles game for Wii (the gods see to it to make the multiplayer playable, say with online with that new fangled Wi-Fi I heard about) a Dragon Warrior title (Wii, supposedly) and a surprisingly shiny remake of FF3 for DS.

And Xbox 360, though I shake my fist at Microsoft continuously, may have some titles worth renting. Bioware's work interests me most. Maybe if the 360 somehow magically appears for less than 200 dollars (Canadian, which means it will never happen) I'm going to stick to what I have and what I can acquire for much less.

Main reason I like Wii so much is the rumors of its price and the great technology behind it. Not to mention of course the people who actually create the thing *COUGH*Miyamoto-san*COUGH*. I mean, if half the rumors about this system are true, its a solid machine. If they were somehow all true, well then we'd all be living in some sort of magical fairy land where whatever gods you worship acknowledge your existence on a daily basis. Yes, its name is odd, but still: gaming genius is the Wii. Hopefully the accompanied software from third parties will actually be decent, hopefully Nintendo won't get screwed again. Honestly that's the thing thats hurt Nintendo, the only thing that's hurt them. Stupid cash-grabbers...

Anyways me like Wii, PS3 looks cold and uninviting, and Xbox, as usual, reminds me of radioactive isotopes... as you might guess, that's not a good thing.

[Edit]: Egads, my spelling is bad. Look I fixed so peoples can read it now. Go me.

Fifthfiend

05-27-2006, 02:38 AM

You know what I think's going to be fun about the Wii, is multiplayer vs games.

And by 'fun' I mean 'invariably ending in fistfights'.

And just to be clear, yes, I do consider the two to be valid synonyms.

... Still hate the name Wii though.

spazzhands

05-27-2006, 05:11 AM

thats what brings gamers and non-gamers alike together in complete harmony... they all hate the name!

[ray.z]

05-27-2006, 09:08 AM

Well I don't understand what people hate about the name "Wii" anyway.

What? Are people so childish that they can't even say it without thinking about urine (or whatever else comes to mind)?

Or is it that people are uninspired and prefer to go with names such as PS3 (which seems reasonable enough) and XBOX 360 (what's the deal with that?!)?

Yes, like so many others I was a bit off put by the name. But Nintendo's Philosophy (http://wii.nintendo.com/philosophy.html) behind the name, well it's better than just adding numbers. It sets it out beyond the crowd.

I heard from the rumor plantations (I don't care what you say, I refuse to believe in "rumor mills") that the PS3 is rather difficult to program for . . .
Well what I heard (I think it was on IGN), is that the PS3's programming is quite similar to PS2's.

But that may have well been what Sony said.

And even if it is so, the fact of the matter is that every game produced for PS3 has this incredibly high (and unreasonable) standard to reach in terms of graphics. So it'll be no suprise (to me at least) if many developers ditch the PS3 for that reason.

NorthDragoon

05-27-2006, 09:25 AM

the fact of the matter is that every game produced for PS3 has this incredibly high (and unreasonable) standard to reach in terms of graphics. So it'll be no suprise (to me at least) if many developers ditch the PS3 for that reason.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The graphics I've seen for the PS3 are impressive, but any gamer worth his thumbs knows that graphics do not a good game make. Simply designing models in such hi-res, super specced graphics makes the artists and programmers cringe at the mere thought of it. Trust me, programmers are generally pretty lazy, and that spills over to the animators too. They like things simple and planned out with a minimum of spinal injury (if you sit in front of a monitor trying to make a 3D character walk straight for hours on end with no success, your spine will be in knots too).

So far the Wii graphics appear similar to late Gamecube games with an extra touch of polish. If it works, why fix it? Wii seems to be about taking the winning combo of Nintendo past and twist in some new elements (the "Wii-mote" for example) to make a new improved console. Yeah people are making fun of the name, but those are generally immature hosers who don't realize they're actually giving Nintendo free PR! Seriously, I myself first heard about the name when it came up in Google News, complete with obligatory cracks at the name. So Wii - great graphics, neat features, excellent marketing strategy... here's hoping the gameplay lives up to the rest.

Fifthfiend

05-28-2006, 02:20 PM

']Well I don't understand what people hate about the name "Wii" anyway.

Because it constitues a violent assault upon the language for which no citizen of good conscience should stand.

Also because once you have to lay out a 'philosophy of your name', it's a stupid name.

So far the Wii graphics appear similar to late Gamecube games with an extra touch of polish.

It's not like every early release for the 360 didn't amount to a late Xbox game with an extra touch of polish.

Yeah people are making fun of the name, but those are generally immature hosers who don't realize they're actually giving Nintendo free PR! Seriously, I myself first heard about the name when it came up in Google News, complete with obligatory cracks at the name.

Speaking for immature hosers everywhere, I would totally love to be giving Nintendo free PR about their system that's cool and awesome and doesn't have a name that is stupid and insulting.

Bells

05-28-2006, 11:43 PM

']Well I don't understand what people hate about the name "Wii" anyway.

What? Are people so childish that they can't even say it without thinking about urine (or whatever else comes to mind)?

Penis. Penis comes to mind.

the name isnt that stupid... but when the Hype about it passes it wont stand for nothing to say about the console... "We"... not everybody only play games on groups...

MuMu

05-29-2006, 11:20 AM

It's not about penis or urine or whatever, the name itself is idiot. Wii. That's it. Ok, it has a great marketing campaing that actually makes sence but it doesn't makes the name less idiot.

ZAKtheGeek

05-29-2006, 11:35 AM

And I know the Revolution will allow downloading of older games, but are they going to allow to get games you already own for free? I think not.
Gamecube games, yes...

The whole "sony's backwards compatability is free!" argument falls flat on its face. If you already own old playstation games, then you already own a PS2, so you don't need a PS3 to play them.

Sithdarth

05-29-2006, 02:12 PM

the name isnt that stupid... but when the Hype about it passes it wont stand for nothing to say about the console... "We"... not everybody only play games on groups...

If I'm reading this right you've confused Nintendo's message about why the picked the name Wii. If I'm reading wrong well I can only see one way to read it really.

If you go here (http://wii.nintendo.com/philosophy.html) you'll find an interesting piece of literature. Here is a quote from there:

Wii sounds like �we,� which emphasizes this console is for everyone.

Now that says to me that Nintendo's "we" is about including everyone in the systems target audience. As I said before this doesn't mean all games are going to be quick simple Kiddy affairs as Nintendo is well aware that would alienate harder core gamers. Thus they wouldn't have a system for everyone.

Also, there will probably be a slant toward multiplayer games from Nintendo but third parties will probably churn out the same number of 1 player games the always have. Besides how many multiplayer games do you know off that don't have a single player mode. The Wii is not going to force you to find 3 friends just to use it. Thinking otherwise is just illogical.

Krylo

05-29-2006, 02:22 PM

ZAKtheGeek

05-29-2006, 02:32 PM

It seems reasonable, considering the relatively low price of the actual consoles and games. If nintendo were to act more like its competition, then all those extra things would be included in the intial console package, and you'd be charged for them regardless of whether or not you actually play the games they're used for. Is that better?

MuMu

05-29-2006, 02:32 PM

Of course you won't NEED 3 friends to play the games, but just compare SSB: Melee alone to SSM:B with 3 friends. Hell, there are people that are playing the later until today(Without stops).

Sithdarth

05-29-2006, 03:00 PM

Well a quick glance over at Nintendo's first party software (http://wii.nintendo.com/software.html) shows at least three possibly 4-5 single or mostly single player games. Not to mention this lovely list of 3rd party games (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/24/whos-really-going-to-support-the-revolution/) more than a few of which will either be totally one player or have a decent one player mode.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Nintedo's actually wisened up a little since there last gen. They know if they really want the Wii to appeal to everyone they have to make a very broad spectrum of games and forcing certain playmodes on every game will disrupt that. That's not to say a few crazy ass games won't do that.

As for the casings I do believe Ninendo mentioned something about not actually needing those to play any of their games. Its just they might make some games more realistic. Like playing an FPS with the gun attachment. You could still play it with just the Wii-mote but it wouldn't feel quite as immersive as it could.

Bells

05-29-2006, 04:27 PM

From the 17 "ready-for-launch" titles, how many actually work better on Songle player then on Multiplayer?

I know that Zelda, Mario and Red Steel are in there, but thats only 3 out of 17, what else is there?

Sithdarth

05-29-2006, 04:56 PM

Let's see Project H.A.M.M.E.R. doesn't seem like it'd be a very good multiplayer game. Also all the demos I've seen for it show one player.

Diaster Day of crisis is pretty much in the same boat as Hammer.

And every Metoroid game I've ever heard about had a decent single player mode.

FF: Crystal Chronicals will probably be single player or at least have a single mode if it follows the general pattern of FF games.

Elebits might be multiplayer but then again its supposed to be a pikmin clone and I have no idea about how they approached that game.

Now if the Joy Of Painting has a multilayer mode I'll probably have to eat my shoe.

Orb seems a little under developed for launch but the style of play they say they want lends itself to one player.

Raid over the River also appears to be a game centered around a single main character and thus inherently one player.

Sadness Seems a lot like an Eternal Darkness clone once again leaning towards one player.

I can't envision there being 2 Spider-Mans in Spider-Man 3.

Some of those aren't launch titles but it gives you an idea of what's coming for the system.

Now if you look here (http://wiinintendo.net/?p=193) you can get a look at the 16 100% going to happen launch titles. Five of which have confirmed single player only 3 are unknown and could go single player only and several more have tentative next to the number of players. (That means the could go either way.) Not to mention most of those games listed would play nearly as well alone as with a friend.

So the total launch count for single player games is 5-8, and total for all games anounced is anywhere from 8-11 or 12 out of no more than 20 announced titles. So as I said before Nintendo, and its 3rd parties, seem to be following the same general pattern in regards to single and multiplayer games as they always have. Of course there is the added possiblity of online play through the Wii. In which case if you can't stir up at least one person out of several million to play with you've got some issues.

Bamboozehound

05-29-2006, 05:00 PM

Game Title: The Joy of Painting with Bob Ross
Developer: AGFRAG Entertainment Group. According to an e-mail from own Joseph Hatcher, everything is currently being moved from San Jose, CA to Kodak, TN.
History with Nintendo: None
About the Game: The game was announced in March 2006 press release by Bob Ross, Inc. The game is currently scheduled for release on the PC, Nintendo DS, and Nintendo Wii. The game is still in the design phase.
Using the Controller: Currently unknown, but we are predicting a scenario where one uses the controller as a paintbrush (or a spray can). Said Hatcher, "to remain competitive with our products, we can't share that information at this time. Control will be intuitive and easy. Watch the Bob Ross TV shows, and you'll start to put two and two together."
Release Date: Unknown; no publisher has been announced. Any interested publishers and / or investors should contact AGFRAG at jhatcher [at] agfrag.com.

I'm going to cry.

Bells

05-29-2006, 05:57 PM

Actually... a game like "jet set radio" could be somewhat fun on the wii about the "paiting" part... but.. bob freakin ross?!

Regulus Tera

05-29-2006, 06:01 PM

Awesome, isn't it? My happy little trees will finally be happy little virtual trees!

Fifthfiend

05-29-2006, 06:13 PM

Wii + White Man's Afro FTW!

MuMu

05-29-2006, 06:21 PM

They could just take out the afro guy and rename it to Mario Paint - Remix...

Bamboozehound

05-29-2006, 06:53 PM

Please do not lightly put Bob Ross aside. He is a national treasure, okay.

The Wandering God

05-30-2006, 12:57 AM

I don't know. Nintendo has forced me to find three friends to play a game (to any degree of meaning) before. In fact, it's forced me to find three friends, with three game link cables, and three gameboy advances.

Isn't that right Mr. Potatomato (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=86)?

Not that they'll do it with every game, but it'll happen with plenty of them. And I'll bet my right nut you'll have to buy a bunch of add-ons and sleeves for the wii-mote seperately to play a bunch of them, too.
Maaaaaaaayyyyybe your kidding. But it does allow me to address that thought.

How did it "force" you? Last time I checked, FF:CC didn't come with the instructions, "If you don't play this game with all the attachments and whatnot... you'll DIE!".

Isn't it easy to judge something we don't know anything about yet? How much attachments will cost. How many will be released. Or anything really.

Noone is forcing you to buy Donkey Konga with the drums. But you need those drums to play, right?

If you don't like the idea of numerious peripherals and Nintendo does decide to go that route, here is what ya do.

Don't buy them. Seriously, withholding your dollar is the single best protest you can make. And if the game is good? Well, maybe it's worth it. Or not. That's really up to you. I'm not going to tell anyone how to spend there money.

But that doesn't mean they have to bitch about it either.

The Wandering God

Mirai Gen

05-30-2006, 02:14 AM

I'm more or less with TWG on this one. The numerous attachments that are surely going to belong on the Wii are undoubtedly meant as a money-machine. But I can't say that I can complain. Twilight Princess and Red Steel already look utterly badass, and that's without various kinky-plug-ins.

I just can't wait for the piracy that's going to go around the net after the Wii comes out. Custom-built free developed games are going to be a riot.

"With the Nintendo Wii, you can now take control of one man's penis as he womanizes around the town!".

It'd be like Knights of the Old Republic, but with wang instead of a lightsaber.

Krylo

05-30-2006, 02:42 AM

How did it "force" you? Last time I checked, FF:CC didn't come with the instructions, "If you don't play this game with all the attachments and whatnot... you'll DIE!". Well, first off, it wasn't FF:CC, because, well, FUCK FF:CC.

It was Four Swords... and to a lesser degree animal crossing and even Wind Waker.

Secondly--it didn't force me, no. What it did do was say "Hey, check out this awesome game. You know what would make it MORE awesome though? I mean, so much more awesome that you can't even really consider yourself as having played it until you do this?

Buying a GBA and a gamelink cable.

Oh, you have one?

Well for this game you need FOUR!

Bwahaha.

Also that allows me to segue into another point I was going to make.

Darth pointed out FF:CC for the Wii as being single player (as most FF's are).

However, the FF:CC franchise is not only multiplayer, but multiplayer with extra add on gimmicks.

Isn't it easy to judge something we don't know anything about yet? How much attachments will cost. How many will be released. Or anything really.

Noone is forcing you to buy Donkey Konga with the drums. But you need those drums to play, right?Donkey Konga? What the hell... wow. Just wow, Nintendo...

Seriously, though, so far you seem to be following the idea... I can't play without the peripheal... so how about packaging the peripheal with it and charging more for that single game, instead of making me buy it seperately. I mean, that's how DDR was done. That's how the Eye Toy games were done.

If you don't like the idea of numerious peripherals and Nintendo does decide to go that route, here is what ya do.

Don't buy them. Seriously, withholding your dollar is the single best protest you can make. And if the game is good? Well, maybe it's worth it. Or not. That's really up to you. I'm not going to tell anyone how to spend there money. Yeah, that's what I did. I still haven't managed to get a proper group together for Four Swords, and I never bought FF:CC...

But that doesn't mean they have to bitch about it either.
So... wait...

If I bitch about Nintendo charging extra for peripheals (and it wasn't even seriously bitching, just giving a counter point to all the Nintendo love in this thread--I mean, I'll be buying one), it's some kind of irritating crime, but people can fill three whole threads with nothing but, "JESUS!? SIX-HUNDRED DOLLARS! SONY IS F'IN' CRAZY!" without any arguement--or any arguement that's presented is quickly jumped upon and then forgotten?

A little hypocrisy maybe?

Now, to me, I would rather get something for six hundred dollars up front and know that they aren't going to twist my arm into buying fifty more things to go with it.

You know, maybe that's just me, but I see Nintendo's buisness practices as of late as rather... underhanded. In fact, down right disgusting.

As Scott of VGCats already pointed out--if there's already four plug-ins for controllers, I should be able to play with four people without shelling out multiple hundreds of dollars for GBAs--maybe with a somewhat lesser experience, but it could have been done. Legend of Mana did it, after all.

And if the little island is already in the code for Animal Crossing, I should be able to get there without plugging in a GBA. This one there's not even an excuse for.

It's just blatant money-mongering.

Yet, somehow, Nintendo isn't allowed to be called on it while they're being shameless bastards about the whole thing, when Sony--which is really just charging you for what you get (which, is, admittedly, more than we need or want), can be attacked freely.

Wow.

Sithdarth

05-30-2006, 03:42 AM

Yeah having no expierence with Crystal Chronicals I just lumped it in with most FF games. Yet you'll notice that even without that game the numbers don't change all that much with generally close to or more than half the games being produced being single player. Also, generally most of the multiplayer games seem like they'd have a decent one player mode.

As for the Four Swords thing that kind of pissed me off when I bought LttP for my Gameboy advance.

Having no expierence with the other two games I can't really comment that much. Aside from saying Krylo seems to be getting his panties in a twist about optional content that was there to reward people for buying other Nintendo products. If you must absolutely see and do every optional thing a game has to offer and are actually angered when you can't something may not be entirely right upstairs. You see it as Nintendo trying to force people to buy their stuff. I see it as a reward to those that already bought the stuff because the wanted it. Aside from Four Swords I don't think it was ever required to have these extra bits for game completion.

Another thing about the Four Swords game. It was made for people that are generally social. People that would have several friends each of who would already own a game link cable of his or her own just in case. That only leaves that special link thing to buy which I don't think was that horribly expensive. Of course that's all gone out the window with DS games that allow wireless connections.

Donkey Konga was indeed stupid. But look on the bright side two Wii remotes can be used to simulate drum sticks no special attachment needed. Also, the only thing cases for the Wii-mote could possibly do is make control more intuative. Even that gun thing with the analog stick in the back can be replicated with the Nunchuck and Wii-mote combo. Of course I can't be sure but I don't think cases can actually add more buttons than you have with the Nunchuck and Wii-mote combo. Which means the function of any case can be replicated through that.

I guess in short Sony is actually forcing the useless junk on you if you want anything from them. In contrast, Nintendo is saying "If you by this you get a benefit beyond its essential function, but by no means is it required." Generally thats just good buisness. After all you have to give people a reason to want to buy your stuff; not tack it on something you know they want and then jack the price and thus force them into buying it.

Mirai Gen

05-30-2006, 03:48 AM

Wait, I retract my earlier sentiments.

FF:CC required four GBAs for multiplay? And...you couldn't even use the controllers?

...you know, I understand that the development of the GBA as a controller was ingenous...but that's just fucked up. I back my earlier statement up. Yes, Krylo, FF:CC is money-mongering bullshit.

Why didn't they just do the Konga/DDR way and make the game, and give you extra features? I mean, fuck, who didn't get the expansion pack for the N64? It made Perfect Dark and Donkey Kong 64 playable.

The Wandering God

05-30-2006, 03:50 AM

Well, first off, it wasn't FF:CC, because, well, FUCK FF:CC.

It was Four Swords... and to a lesser degree animal crossing and even Wind Waker.
Ahhh, I remember now. Forgot about that one.

Secondly--it didn't force me, no. What it did do was say "Hey, check out this awesome game. You know what would make it MORE awesome though? I mean, so much more awesome that you can't even really consider yourself as having played it until you do this?

Buying a GBA and a gamelink cable.

Oh, you have one?

Well for this game you need FOUR!

Bwahaha.
I dunno, I guess the whole friends/GBA owning thing is really a matter of personal experience. I have very few friends, and none are as into gaming as I am. But that's okay. It means I miss out on some experiences sure, but, well, we all do. Unless you own every system ever, you've missed out. I've read countless articles on awesome games. Games I'll never play, because I don't have the system, much less the game. Of course, I COULD spend the money on ebay or whatever, but again, this is a personal decision. Or I could blame the companies for going under, not making enough copies to where it's price gouged, the game stores who charge ridiculously high for rare games, or the online auctions that quickly get ridiculous.

Or I could just realize that there are some things I'll miss out on, and move on.

Also that allows me to segue into another point I was going to make.

Darth pointed out FF:CC for the Wii as being single player (as most FF's are).

However, the FF:CC franchise is not only multiplayer, but multiplayer with extra add on gimmicks.
Um, not really seeing where you are going with this. Sorry. :( As there has only been one release for the series yet, and details are still sketchy on the next one, it's really hard to make that kind of judgement.

If they utilize a DS for FF:CC however, I'll be more than willing to retract that statement. (But as I have a DS, I'll enjoy doing so :D )

Donkey Konga? What the hell... wow. Just wow, Nintendo...
Yes, how dare they release a rhythm game. Especially as far as I know, they are wildy popular in Japan. And Guitar Hero seems to say the same for over here...

Seriously, though, so far you seem to be following the idea... I can't play without the peripheal... so how about packaging the peripheal with it and charging more for that single game, instead of making me buy it seperately. I mean, that's how DDR was done. That's how the Eye Toy games were done.
I think that's what Nintendo will do actually. Again, we won't know until we see how things go. But I doubt they will make too many, as they are probably aware that 3rd party publishers would be wary to either
A) expect the customer to already have it
or
B) put out a higher priced game (meaning reduced sales) because of the packed in peripheral.

All I'm saying here is wait.

Yeah, that's what I did. I still haven't managed to get a proper group together for Four Swords, and I never bought FF:CC...
Too bad that. I would like to play Four Swords too.

So... wait...

If I bitch about Nintendo charging extra for peripheals (and it wasn't even seriously bitching, just giving a counter point to all the Nintendo love in this thread--I mean, I'll be buying one), it's some kind of irritating crime, but people can fill three whole threads with nothing but, "JESUS!? SIX-HUNDRED DOLLARS! SONY IS F'IN' CRAZY!" without any arguement--or any arguement that's presented is quickly jumped upon and then forgotten?

A little hypocrisy maybe?
It would only be hypocrisy if I complained about the price. Which I have never done. It isn't fair to call me a hypocrite for the actions of others.

My opinion on that matter is...Wait and see. If the games justify it, I'll save up and buy me a PS3. But I will say it will have to be some pretty kick ass games. (Of course, that will eventually happen.)

What I was really complaining about was the fact that you don't have to buy every single game for a system. The idea of not being able to afford a system is entirely a different matter.

Now, to me, I would rather get something for six hundred dollars up front and know that they aren't going to twist my arm into buying fifty more things to go with it.
What, like the Eyetoy for instance? That is part of the point of the PS3 though. Everything right out of the box (in the $600 dollar version that is). Which, basically, Sony is doing what you just said, just right out of the gate. Except as opposed to the Wii and attachments, you can't upgrade the PS3 if it's the lower priced version. (Sadly, I have no linkage to back that up at the moment, but if you want, I'll track some down.)

And again, noone will twist your arm.

You know, maybe that's just me, but I see Nintendo's buisness practices as of late as rather... underhanded. In fact, down right disgusting.

As Scott of VGCats already pointed out--if there's already four plug-ins for controllers, I should be able to play with four people without shelling out multiple hundreds of dollars for GBAs--maybe with a somewhat lesser experience, but it could have been done. Legend of Mana did it, after all.

And if the little island is already in the code for Animal Crossing, I should be able to get there without plugging in a GBA. This one there's not even an excuse for.

It's just blatant money-mongering.
But you can play four players with games. Just not a very few. (Unfortunately, with the Cube's library being as small as it is, this is magnified.) Like I said, you don't have to play those games.

As to AC, what about the Suikoden games? (Never played them, and I freely admit I'm in dangerous territory here.) I read that if you used previous save files, you could unlock additional characters. They were there in the code of the next game, but you couldn't unlock them without that previous save. Is that fair?

And all companies are money-mongering to a greater or lesser degree.
Yet, somehow, Nintendo isn't allowed to be called on it while they're being shameless bastards about the whole thing, when Sony--which is really just charging you for what you get (which, is, admittedly, more than we need or want), can be attacked freely.

Wow.
I never said that Nintendo couldn't be attacked. I wasn't complaining about you attacking Nintendo, I was complaing about about you bitching about something that is slightly more voluntary than the price of the system.

Let me put is this way.

How many games did you miss out b/c of the GBA-Gamecube linkage thing?

Now, how many games are you going to miss if you can't afford a PS3?

See my point?

Yes, it's hypocritical to complain about complaining. But frankly, it gets tiring after a while. I've seen things I've cherished and enjoyed torn apart. I can't speak for anyone else, but that really pisses me off.

If you don't like something, don't talk about it.

The clincher is when others are talking about it. And then I set a doublestandard which I freely admit and accept.

If others are praising something I dislike, I move on.

If others are bashing something I like, I (somettimes) stick my nose in.

There really is very little need for a bashfest of something merely to talk about how ridiculous it is. (Unless it's for the purpose of humor.)

I realize this all sounds very complicated. Because it is. But it's how I am.

So yeah.

The Wandering God

EDIT: I'm wonderin about the Wii. Will it have link cable connections? If not, how will games that utilize it work? Hmmmm, more questions for Nintendo it seems.

Bells

05-30-2006, 06:37 AM

its not really about WHAT will they do guys.... its more of a matter of how much it will cost...

If every gimmick costs 10-20 bucks, its ok, if it costs 50... its another story

Same thing with the wiimote...

The nunchuk comes with the wiimote on the package... now, can i buy JUST the wiimote? can ia buy JUST the nunchuck? How much will it cost? Is either of them fragile (This still bugs me)?

As i'm wandering, a LOT of people just might want to buy the Wii and a Extra controler on launch day... yet, they dont know if they CAN or how much it will cost then...

NorthDragoon

05-30-2006, 11:58 AM

TWG summed the answer to all questions:

My opinion on that matter is...Wait and see.

I have found you can ask questions of people as much as you like, but there's a good chance you won't get an answer if they A) don't know or B) don't want to tell you for some reason.

Everyone wants to know what's going on with all this next gen business? Fine, here's your answer: wait and see. Even if you want to speculate or theorize or immolate some topic, in the end you still have to wait. So chill. Play the games you have, check out something that's already out, take a nap... whatever.

Bamboozehound

05-30-2006, 04:31 PM

Whining about the prices of Wii add-ons is ridiculous. You can buy a Wii and three extra remotes and three nunchuck add-ons and a gun-attachment, even if each remote and add-on cost $40 a piece and the console is $300, it would still cost less than the bloated PS3. Seriously, this "BUT ITZ NOT ALL IN ONE BOX" arguement is lame.

Besides supporting the "Wii rules, PS3 drools!" platform, I'm just happy that the Xbox360 isn't the #1 contender this generation. Actually, from what I can see today it looks like that thing will start and finish in dead last, despite being the first to launch. Actually factually, the 360's performance to date seems awfully close to what Sony has planned for the ps3. Dun dun dunnnn.

FF: CC and Zelda4Swords were ment to be played with friends who had their own GBA or GBSP before you buy the game. They were made because GBA and GBSP are already so damn popular. They weren't serious titles like the other games of their respective franchises. Nintendo was verbal about the need for GBA/SP to access the multiplayer, anyway. Do your homework before you buy a game you don't understand, krylo.

[ray.z]

05-31-2006, 05:56 AM

As i'm wandering, a LOT of people just might want to buy the Wii and a Extra controler on launch day... yet, they dont know if they CAN or how much it will cost then...
Bellsouth Minion: Are you talking about the virtual console controller (the traditional styled controller)? Cause if you are, that'll be with the Wii when you purchase it.

I cannot wait!!! :D

Note: I thinks that $40 bucks a pop for the addons is a kick in the pants. Sure they will be worth it (and I probably would buy them anyway, depending on the game), but Nintendo should include them with the appropiate game (when the addons are first released) and be able to purchase them seperately. Moreover, later on, instead of releasing them with every game, they give you a choice, and if you decline the addon, the price is reduced. But I guess that'll probably be up to the store owners.

The good thing is that, unlike other game addons that Nintendo has released (I'm talking about that lame ass Game Boy one for N64), is that it'll be possible for use for a number of different games, unlike they USB camera that's only good for the Eye-Toy game and a Tony Hawk's game (I think).

And anyways, I don't think they'll have much more (if any more) addons other than the light-gun shell.

And they better be damn sturdy. Cause with all that movement involved with the games, it'll be no suprise if someone gets hit in the eye from a flying Wiimote (hehehe). Also, the nunchuck cable should also be strong enough, cause like, what if you wanna strangle someone with it?

Again: I cannot wait!!! :D

Waylander

06-02-2006, 10:12 AM

I'll just be glad when the PS3 comes out because it means most PS2 games prices will plummet and I will finally be able to buy all the games i want that never get released platinum (DAMN YE! DAMN YE TO HECK!)

Just on a sidenote guys (and girls) i agree with Krylo it is a stupid idea to have games that require extra peripherals that either only work with that game or are completely useless otherwise. I mean the Light gun was good it allowed you to play games like Time Crisis but when you have to either buy a new peripheral for each game or have to pay more for games which already cost enough as it is. (seeing as it wouldnt cost anywhere near what it costs for them to make the game. its along the line of 5% cost 95% profit. but hey they make good games so who cares).

But yeah peripherals that you can only use on one game are kinda a waste of time and money the console people spent a lot of time making that controller DUCKING use it you stupid game developers!! (except the light gun which has a rather good point.)

UZ_White

06-02-2006, 12:29 PM

But yeah peripherals that you can only use on one game are kinda a waste of time and money the console people spent a lot of time making that controller DUCKING use it you stupid game developers!! (except the light gun which has a rather good point.)

Wait... When the hell did anyone say something about a pheripheral that would only be used with one game? Even the GBA thing that they were arguing about worked with more than one game. The Wii's extra components (The gun, the Nunchuk, etc.) will work with multiple games, I'm sure, not just one. That would just be stupid on Nintendo's part to make it a 1 game thing. That'd be like making only one game for the DS that used the touch screen. (i.e. A waste of a part of the system.)

Rhyos

06-02-2006, 09:25 PM

Words about required peripherals for gaming

I'm not too sure if this has been mentioned or not, but I have played Steel Battalion. For those who don't know, this XBox game cost $200. At the time it(Steel Battalion) was released, that was how much it cost for a new XBox. A 50-button, 2-joystick, 3-pedal controller. To date, the most hardcore mech game made for a home console.

And not worth it. I'm glad I managed to borrow it from someone who DID spend the money on it. Line of Contact was geared up to be a great expansion, too, with online play, but the whole kit'n'caboodle was so damn expensive that nobody could afford it. The games tanked, and as of yet, I've heard of NOTHING else that uses that huge controller. At least Nintendo had some, albeit minor, uses for the GBA as a controller/item giver.

:thief:

The Wandering God

06-03-2006, 05:59 AM

For us DS owners who are getting a Wii, have I got good news for you.

Der Linken (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152265.html)

Potential Wii-owners will likely be most interested in Iwata's comments on WiiConnect24, the Wii's online network. Unlike Xbox Live, which makes users download demos, WiiConnect24 will automatically deliver Wii and DS demos to any connected console--presumably at the user's discretion

"Let's say your Wii is connected to the Internet in a mode that allows activation on a 24-hour basis," explains Iwata. "This would allow Nintendo to send monthly promotional demos for the DS, during the night, to the Wii consoles in each household. Users would wake up each morning, find the LED lamp on their Wii flashing, and know that Nintendo has sent them something. They would then be able to download the promotional demo from their Wiis to their Nintendo DSes."
I was going to get a Wii, but this feature is particulary exciting. I don't know if they are planning something like this for the PS3 and the PSP or not, but again, this is the more affordable combo.

The Wandering God

Living Bobbeh

06-03-2006, 07:14 AM

Unlike Xbox Live, which makes users download demos

Ooh, I don't like that statement/stab. While you still have to choose to start a download of a demo, the next update is bringing in a download manager that downloads while you can do anything that doesn't involve online play. It pauses and resumes after if you go into an online game.

The thought of my console downloading stuff in my sleep without my knowledge is a bit disconcerning...

The Wandering God

06-03-2006, 07:45 AM

Ooh, I don't like that statement/stab. While you still have to choose to start a download of a demo, the next update is bringing in a download manager that downloads while you can do anything that doesn't involve online play. It pauses and resumes after if you go into an online game.

The thought of my console downloading stuff in my sleep without my knowledge is a bit disconcerning...
I would like to point out that I think that statement was written by the author of that article, and isn't a statement from Nintendo. I think what they are going for in the Wii is the fact that they are portraying it as bringing or giving the content to you, as opposed to what it seems like on Live, where you log on and look around.

This content will be delivered by or via Nintendo. Which, considering their friends codes and the fact that this will also be how the Wii multiplayer works, will probably keep your Wii safe. You shouldn't be any more worried about leaving your console on and hooked up, than you should be worried about getting a "virus" on the Live Marketplace. Meaning, no need to worry at all.

What I'm curious is, how are they going to store this information on the Wii. For that matter, what are the storage capabilities of the Wii and the discs for the system? Anyone with any info would earn much praise from me.

The Wandering God

spazzhands

06-03-2006, 08:09 AM

there are two USB ports at the back of the console apparently, they could be used for a larger memory peripheral like a hard drive.

Or the Wii could even use the hard-drive on your PC to store stuff in secure files.

VA_Ninja

06-03-2006, 08:47 AM

while the auto-downloading feature interests me, I hope I'll be able to turn it off if need be. My ISP limits the amount I can download each day, and I don't wanna wake up to my download limits completely used up so I could get a demo of the next DS title I may or may not play.

Living Bobbeh

06-03-2006, 09:02 AM

This content will be delivered by or via Nintendo. Which, considering their friends codes and the fact that this will also be how the Wii multiplayer works, will probably keep your Wii safe. You shouldn't be any more worried about leaving your console on and hooked up, than you should be worried about getting a "virus" on the Live Marketplace. Meaning, no need to worry at all.

I didn't mean it (mostly) in the sence it's gonna get a virus, I ment it for Mr Miyamoto (I probably spelt that wrong, really don't care too much, I may even have the wrong person. Anywho, I mean the Top Banana of Nintendo) to send his words of propaganda, Skynet Style!

Mirai Gen

06-03-2006, 04:19 PM

Good fucking god, is Sony just fucking arrogant, or what? (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3150935)

ElfLad

06-03-2006, 04:22 PM

Sony? arrogant? No way!

In other news, just about every Sony press release makes me hate them a little more. It takes a lot of work to be that irritating.

MuMu

06-03-2006, 04:36 PM

I don't know why, but I can't open 1up(probably because I use IE). Can someone Copy-Paste the important parts?

VA_Ninja

06-03-2006, 04:52 PM

I don't know why, but I can't open 1up(probably because I use IE). Can someone Copy-Paste the important parts?
When Sony Computer Entertainment Europe CEO David Reeves admits that "key launch titles" will slip into 2007 he also admits that to Sony, it doesn't really matter what ships at launch.

"We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games"
There ya go

MuMu

06-03-2006, 05:27 PM

So they think we will buy any shit they launch just because it's Sony? Yeah, arrogant. To the MAX!

Bells

06-03-2006, 06:53 PM

wait... did i missed something on this?

The wii is 24/7 downloading stuff... (as so Nintendo Claims)... But... where the hell is that stuff Stocked? The Wii only has a 512mb Flash memory... no HD, right? There is a memory stick slot... but i dont know how deep that would work... even so, a 1Gb Memory Stick cant compare to a 20gb HD

If you Need to buy a "Wiivice" for sloting a Hard drive In, im already puting those in with the Wii final price.... because they are making quite a bit of Announcements on this thing... its a main feature...

Also... this "every morning you may wake up and find a new nintendo present for you" sounds kinda Bogus for me... its one of those thing that i Prefer to wait and see...

Krylo

06-03-2006, 08:00 PM

Yeah, I'm confused as to the Wii downloading thing too.

They don't have the storage space to capacitate that kind of thing, that I know of, at least not without forcing consumers to buy a shitload of memory sticks, or make sure they never leave one in over night.

This goes back to what I was saying about shitty buisness practices.

They get us excited about downloading old games and then bring up Nintendo giving you new content for free (demos etc) randomly, but do they mention the lack of memory?

Of course not. Because then people might start to wonder how big the memory sticks will be and how much they'll cost.

Also--As much as I hate Sony's arrogance, frankly, they're right.

A lot of people WILL still buy it. Again, GoW2, DMC4, FF:XIII, FF:XIII Vrs, KH:3 (more likely than not) any new Wild Arms that come out, and anything on X-box that isn't superior on a computer anyway.

Really, after that, I hope they lose buisness, but still stay afloat.

Why?

Because they need to be humbled, but having them cut their gaming line would just fuck everyone over.

That'd leave us with Nintendo and Microsoft.

Microsoft tends to buy third parties and fuck them up (like Rare), and they put out even shoddier hardware than Sony.

Nintendo is alright by me, but they're innovative.

Now, innovative isn't bad, normally. In fact, normally it's pretty good. It is, however, bad when all you have is the new and the old is thrown by the wayside. I like my sidescrolling shooters and I like games I control with a pad. I still WANT games that are different (like the Wii), but I'd also like more games like the current ones to be made as well.

Thus, Sony is the last bastion of old school gaming machines.

Also, on the price, everyone but Sony is selling their console at a loss.

Sony is also having financial problems thanks to other divisions of their company, and has put the most impressive hardware into their machine of the three (and no, you can not make a computer equivalent for six hundred dollars, or even close. Even thinking that is stupid).

Think about it.

Fifthfiend

06-03-2006, 08:08 PM

Re: the thing about Sony above - come on be honest, they kind of have a point.

I mean look at it like this, they're already making people pay six hundred dollars for this thing. I mean come on, the people willing to pay six hundred dollars for a PS3 are going to buy it if the only game available for it is Pac-Man.

Sithdarth

06-03-2006, 08:20 PM

Of course no one said you couldn't delete something if you didn't like it. Every system has had some for of memory management feature in it. Why wouldn't the Wii follow this pattern? Also, we have no idea how long a demo might be. Not knowing that we have no idea how big they might be. For all we know the demos could be right around 1 meg which isn't going to take all that much space.

Also, how many times can you really replay a demo? I myself can only play something maybe once or twice even when its a full sized game. At best a demo would be two levels and maybe 30 minutes of play time. After playing it once or twice you could delete it before space becomes an issue. Additionally, there will probably be a way to tell it what to download and what not to download or stop it all together.

Finally, how much space does it really take for a save game file. I don't think I've ever used more than 3 megs on my X-box harddrive and I've got like 30 Morrowind save files on top of save files from several other games. Sure 512 megebytes sounds small compared to gigs of storage space but really who uses all that space. Aside from people that like to store all their music on a system, but I myself use my computer and its far superior sound system for that.

Edit: As for Krylo's old school gaming thing, need I repeat virtual console. Not only does it play ports of old games independent developers without the cash to make high end Wii games can produce for it. Thus, we'll probably get decent, and possibly free, 3rd party simple old school games.

Krylo

06-03-2006, 08:24 PM

Sith: You forget that Nintendo is going to be providing superior versions of ROMs for a few dollars a pop.

ROM collections take up more space than music collections, and there ARE quite a few of us who do replay games.

I still pop in an NES game from time to time, as that I still have the system.

So yes, it is an issue as that they're basically giving you the option of either buying a dickfuckload of memory sticks or repaying for a ROM game everytime you feel like playing it.

Sithdarth

06-03-2006, 08:29 PM

A Snes roms and NES roms take up about as much as a single song each. Maybe 2 megs a pop. Do you really have 200 of them that you want to play that badly. The only problem might be 64 roms which are bigger but most people don't seem to keen on 64 games. Also, we have no idea if the Wifi feature will allow storage on a PC. Which would be a very smart move on Nintendo because they get the advantge of storage without having to charge a but load for it. And lets face it anyone with a Wifi connection is going to have a PC connected to it.

Edit: Further research suggests that SNES rooms come in at about 1 meg where as 64 titles average about 30 megs. So even with all 64 roms you get 15-16 games before you really start to fill things up. And thats entire 3D games. I have no idea how big a GC or Wii rom would be but definetaly no bigger than an entire 64 game. Also, if you absolutely must have 4 gigs worth of roms for some unknown reason then well you have to pay for it. You either pay for it up front with an internal harddrive. Something that not everyone is going to need or use. Alternatively you sell it in a seperate modular way so that those that want it have that option. Which is actaully nicer then forcing it on people because they happen to want the other parts of the system regardless of how usefull it is. That to me sounds a lot more like forcing you into forking over cash than giving you an option to decide if you really need it.

ZAKtheGeek

06-03-2006, 09:10 PM

Here's an interesting thought: maybe the wii will sell in multiple versions too. The main difference being memory.

Also, on the price, everyone but Sony is selling their console at a loss.
Really? I've read it costs something like $900 to manufacture a PS3...

Krylo

06-03-2006, 09:20 PM

Well, I went and actively looked it up--as that I only vaguely remembered reading something to the effect of Sony making a profit on the PS3--after you said that, and some sources say that the price of a PS3 is $794-$900+ to manufacture (with the Cell processor alone being more expensive than buying an entire Wii), while others claim the price to be around $500.

I wasn't able to find anything from Sony saying the exact price, though.

Also, all the numbers I saw quoted Merril Lynch quotes... which confuses me. A lot. Examples...

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=5817 : According to a Merrill Lynch of Japan report quoted by the Japanese magazine Toyo Keizai and translated by consumer website GameSpot, the initial manufacturing costs for the PlayStation 3 are suspected to be around 54,000 yen, or $494 USD. The report estimates that the launch costs for the three main components of the system -- the RSX graphics chip, Blu-Ray disc drive, and Cell processor -- will cost 11,000 yen ($101 USD) each.

http://ps2.gamespy.com/articles/710/710710p1.html : You may think that paying $499 and $599 for a PlayStation 3 is a lot of dough, but Sony is paying even more according to Merrill Lynch. Analysts at the company have pieced together what they think are the costs Sony pays for each PS3. They believe that each Cell microprocessor (the brains of the PS3) costs $230 to make. Blu-ray optical drives, another PS3 feature Sony is touting, cost $350. Just those two components alone already cost more than the entry-level version of the PS3. After factoring in the hard drive, RAM, and other hardware and manufacturing costs, Merrill Lynch estimates that Sony has to dish out more than $715 for each PS3 that rolls off the assembly line.

So, we have two possibilities.

A) Sony is producing a machine with a few hundred dollars more worth of hardware in it than the others.

B) Sony is trying to actually not sell at a loss this year to preserve themselvs.

Either way, the price isn't really that unfair, when you look at the stats compared to the others.

It's still going to beat the hell out of them at launch, but who can honestly say that they expect the PS3 to stay on the shelves when the games I listed before are out?

Are any one of those games worth $600 dollars? Probably not (well, maybe DMC4 or KH:3).

Are all of them together + the games we don't know about yet? Fuck yes.

Sithdarth

06-03-2006, 10:21 PM

Ok for one I guess I should note that Krylo's entire "Nintendo is out for your cash" argument was a strawman. In that it had little to actually do with the merits of the system, aside from things that can only be speculated on. That and his belief that the only correct way to extort cash from consumers is by forcing them to buy something they might not need to get something they want. I mean it must be ok if they tell you all about how they are going to extort all your hard earned money first. Ok so Nintendo doesn't explain slowly in small words everything a game may require in the ad for the game. However, they do on the back of the game boxes, which only take about four seconds to read.

As for the hand waving thing that's a bit hypocritical. I mean there are serious undeniable issues with Sony's business practices that no one is addressing. Krylo just seems to want to get around the problem by saying, "Well gee no one is allowed to have problems with the Wii that's so unfair." So what people aren't allowed to defend a system they like from critism? At the very least the majority of people in this thread have not jumped on Sony supporters and told them not to come around here. All I've seen is points and counter points. Further, you can say all the points and counter points on the other side are hand waving but you have yet to actually present evidence for even a majority of them being as such. I can run around and do the same thing.

To go even further, no one has really ever expressed the fact that Sony's hardware is crap and not worth the cash. I'll perfectly well admit that is one mean ass machine. The problem is that its got to much crap that I just don't need and even with the games announced isn't really worth it yet. What makes it even worse is that Sony has more or less admited to the fact that they designed the PS3 that way. Given the choice I'd rather buy a system and then a few extra pieces later then buying a system and getting stuck with several pieces I'm never going to use.

Are there people out there that will buy the system? Of course there are. Is Sony going to die a horrible death from this system? Most likely not. Is Sony a bigger money whore than Nintendo? This is more subjective but if anything I'd say they are equal. Its just they have different philosophies on the matter. Sony is going to bank on brand loyalty to sell people things they may or may not need regardless of if they actually need them or not, and its a safe bet. Ninentdo is going to give you reasons to want these extra things and then let you decide how much you need them. Is that underhanded? Well probably a little bit. Is it any worse than just forcing people into buying something they'll never use to get stuff the actually want? I'd say they are about on equal footing.

Of course, at least for me buying a system has little to do with how much money, and how that money is going to be taken from me. Its about if the system gives me things that I want and if I actually have the money for it. I've never really been a first person shooter type of guy, nor a sports game type of guy. Sure the PS3 is going to have a few good RPGs but Nintendo has more, and some exclusive puzzle games(read Zelda) that I actually like more than RPGs. All this adds up to me probably getting a Wii first.

Now if last generation is any indication I'll end up with all three systems again. I hate to say it but I'm a game whore. My world is not complete if I don't have the potential to play any game that gets released. That's irrespective of my actual desire to play said games. I never said it was logical its just how I function apparently. However, I'll probably end up forcing someone to buy me a Wii at launch. At some point I already plan on getting some cash together for a 360 somehow. A PS3 might have to wait a few years but thats not new. It took me 3 years to get around to buying an Xbox and that was basically only so that I could play Morrowind. In short I'm probably the biggest console whore of the lot of us, I'm just strapped for cash.

So go ahead state you opinions about the usefullness of the Wii's hardware and how evil Nintendo is by selling it how you think they will, I'm not going to stop you. Just don't act like Sony doesn't stink just as bad because they openly admit to how evil and money grubbing they like to be. Also, its really really insulting to have someone come by and say all those well thought out reasons you took so long typing are worth nothing. Not only that but offering no support for the matter and then launching off on something only tangentially related and assuming somethings been proven just makes people angry.

Bells

06-03-2006, 10:38 PM

Dont forget that the Ps3 is compatible with ANY HD you want to use in it (as Said by Sony) so i can just buy a 200Gb Hd and Be done with it... (Although, as PS3 uses a Linux OS i dont know if that is IN the Hd or on the system memory)

I would belive that a Savegame would be around 5mb, and a Video/trailer would be around 30mb, maybe digital magazines and such could be around 15mb... with Demos being around 50mb to maybe 150mb

By that view, a simple 1gb Memory stick would be enough for the casual Gamer (although i dont know if the Wii COMES with one) ... if you want to KEEP your Virtual console Rooms, im sure to tell you you should have a memory stick just for those

But still... you would have to buy a few more if you are a core gamer who likes to share saved games files, Keep your movies and Demos and Such...

Also, the PS3 Hd gives you MORE edge on that... as you may perhaps download addons for games, like Cloths, weapons, maybe even more maps, updates and the such... i REALLY dont see that much dept for the Wii... not even for the XBOX 360 really

Sithdarth

06-03-2006, 10:57 PM

That arguments over. I addressed really everything you had to say already. Storage space isn't really all that big a deal for he Wii. More than half the people using it are either not going to know enough to want those extras or is going to know and not care about those extras.

Also, we don't know if this feature comes enabled or if it asks you if you want to enable it. Further, I find it highly improbable that there won't be some kind of warning about memory filling up taking you to the memory managment screen. Additionally, its supposed to warn you about having download something when you turn it on. Its not like it can fill up your memory without you knowing about it. Unless you never pay attention at all. Heck for all we know the downloads could stop when you have less than 50% memory. Nintendo hasn't really released enough infromation for an informed decision about this.

Now, because I just love repeating myself, the PS3 and X-box gives you more memory but so what. If most people aren't going to bother using it why force them to buy it? Which is really about the only problem I have with other next gen consoles. Its not so much whats in them as that I don't have much choice about what I get. Sure their are two different versions but they take of the cheaper useful stuff instead of the stuff I probably won't have use for.

On a side note, how is being able to go out and buy your own harddrive different then having to buy memory sticks? Hell they're making harddrives so small they can be used like flash cards. My MP3 player is a harddrive model from a few years ago and it holds 2 gigs. It wasn't even top of the line when I got it either, there were some up to 10 gigs. But really super crazy memory storage isn't a problem for me as there just aren't enough roms I might want.

Krylo

06-03-2006, 10:58 PM

Also, both the Wii and the PS3 are going to allow random folks to program games and utilities and upload them to their networks.

On the one hand, that opens the possibility for virii.

On the other, it means that both are going to have a lot of extra downloadable content to use up that precious storage space.

Honestly, though, the only reason I 'bash' the Wii is because everyone else bashes the PS3 and orgasms all over the Wii.

Honestly, I see them as about equal machines.

The PS3 has a lot of good third party support, amazing hardware, a lot of modability (thanks to the linux OS), and franchises I must have.

The Wii has a lot of good first party, some good third party, and the innovative control.

They both have massive libraries thanks to backwards compatibility (the PS3 has the 'the control is almost the same damn thing without extra sleeves' advantage here, while the Wii has a hell of a lot more games), and are allowing people other than actual developers to create more games for download on their networks.

Like I've said before, I KNOW I'm buying both.

The only one I really don't care for is the 360 as it has/will have very few games I can't get for the computer (and enjoy more there) or the PS3, and those it does have for itself I probably won't care for (FPS). Plus it lacks the kind of network support that the Wii and PS3 are going to incorporate, and has shitty graphics compared to the PS3 and a shitty price point (with similiar graphics, and far less awesome innovation) compared to the Wii.

Honestly, the way I see it is this:

XBox: Middling price point, shitty console by comparison.

Wii: Amazing price point, great potential.

PS3: Shitty price point, also great potential.

The only reason the Xbox stands a chance, in my opinion, is because so many people already bought them, and a lot of casual gamers won't stop to think about how much it sucks compared to the PS3 (honestly, the Wii isn't even in the same ballpark as those two anymore, I don't know if we can even consider it in direct competition).

Bells

06-03-2006, 11:06 PM

Wait.. homebrew, Homecoding and user creation is confirmed for the Wii?

I Know is confirmed for the PS3, and Not avaliable on the Xbox...

Krylo

06-03-2006, 11:14 PM

It's speculated. I don't think it's confirmed, but it'd be easy to put in... and a lot of people are theorizing it'll happen.

Honestly, I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't do it.

Although, if they don't, they still have a very strong system.

Sithdarth

06-03-2006, 11:21 PM

Seriously read links carefully, it can help. (http://wii.nintendo.com/hardware.html)

Just in case:
Virtual Console: Wii will have downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES). The Virtual Console also will feature a "best of" selection from Sega Genesis titles and games from the TurboGrafx console (a system jointly developed by NEC and Hudson). It also will be home to new games conceived by indie developers whose creativity is larger than their budgets.

Something occured to me just now. Why do we even need to download these games. It should be possible to purchase access and play them off of your internet connection while leaving them on Nintendo's server. Its not like connection speeds are generally a problem. Of course this doesn't mean it will work this way. Just a thought about a possibilty.

[ray.z]

06-04-2006, 08:33 AM

Why do we even need to download these games.
Cause we're more than likely paying for them, that's why.

If I'm paying for something, I want it's physical presence (more or less).

I reckon Nintendo's Wii does need a hard drive, even if it is a meagre 5 GB - which is probably more than enough. But that'll just push the price up a bit. Oh well, flash cards it is.

On the topic of the virtual console games...

If people are downloading these games, how will Nintendo control the illegal distribution of these games? Will it somehow bond itself to the Wii of which it was purchased through? And then, what if you wanna take it to a friends house for some retro fun? Will you be able to do so?

However, the restriction of game movement is more than likely not to occur, seeing as there was such uproar when rumours arose once again of Sony attempting a similar tactic of sorts.

Moreover, what if something goes wrong with the flash memory and you lose all your downloaded content? Will you still have a right to regain it without paying for it again?

Also, will you be required to pay for games that you already own? Cause I think paying twice for the same game will really blow.

Even so, I'm excited (:D) about the Virtual Console, especially cause I read somewhere that you'd be able to access new content for older games. And if it ain't so, I'm still excited.

Mirai Gen

06-04-2006, 09:47 AM

I honestly think my frustration with the PS3 has to do with their price.

I mean, I really can't afford it. Even with two price drops, there's simply no way I can get one for a very long time. The problem is, I need to, because it's got franchises I love. And when asked why, Sony says, "Well, we're Sony. So get used to it."

I really can't fucking stand it when people say "Change, because we won't."

I mean, I've always backed Nintendo because they know that shit isn't going to be made by the meaner machine. And don't get me wrong - the PS3 is pretty damn powerful. I just don't need all of the things it can do.

So then they say, "Okay, we'll shaft you on the hard drive for 500 bucks instead."

Excuse me?

Thanks for your 'deal,' asshole. You didn't recognize that it was a stupid idea when Microsoft did it either.

Really, I know that Sony's price isn't that bad. Especially considering how much they did to make the PS3 respectable for years to come, and their subsequent eating of the cost. But I really don't need the PS3 to have kickass graphics - As games like Shadow of the Colossus show, graphics really depend on the programmers' talent. PS2 is an ancient-ass machine, and look at some of the games out there.

Alex_Leo

06-04-2006, 11:27 AM

I vote for the revolution but thats cuz i have been playing nintindos games since i was 4 although all of them are MASSIVELY OVER PRICED just becouse of graphics i honestly just play a game for it's story line and game play

I'm not spending 400$ on something ill probly never even play so realy ill probly not get to play anything on PS3,360,or revolution because of my 2 sisters but id prefer PS3 or revolution

Bells

06-04-2006, 11:47 AM

The thing that there are still answers to come... im not sure that nintendo is not a Wolf in Sheeps clothing yet...

They Can Impose several methods to prevent people from "bypassing" the need to actually buy Nintendo's Roms (Afterall... can i buy a rom, they pass it to my Computer and then just give it a Free copy to each of my friends? Can i "Give" a rom i bought to a friend? If a Loose my memory Stick or Rom, will i have to Buy it again? Will the Wii use "special" memory Sticks? )

Also... im trully Curious about the storage issue... nitendo is annoucing quite a bit on the "Downloadables"... and i can see that as a double Edged Knife...

Sithdarth

06-04-2006, 02:05 PM

See like I said before the virtual console would work much better as something like that on game website. Where you pay for access to a game but never really download it. That way it doesn't take up space and you can't lose or accidently delete it and get shafted for a few more bucks.

ZAKtheGeek

06-04-2006, 04:28 PM

Yeah, that's actually starting to make a lot of sense. It also takes care of people downloading a game and then giving it to all their friends (or something similar on a much larger scale...). Maybe each wii has its own account with nintendo, and when you buy something, it's noted in the account that you've bought that game. Then you're allowed to play it, without ever downloading it at all.

The downside here is obvious: you can't play without an internet connection. Which makes one wonder if they'd really do it that way.

Bells

06-04-2006, 04:55 PM

i really think that if they were doing it this way... they woudl have said it already.... i mean... that's like the only option that has less chance of giving Nintendo problems

Sithdarth

06-04-2006, 07:28 PM

The best way to go might be a half and half type of system. Where you buy rights to play a game online but can also download it for the option of playing offline. I think I remember something about a site that did something like that. Even after downloading the game I think you still had the right to play it online. Of course who knows what crazy thing Nintendo is going to do, or if the full networking functionality will be available at launch, DS anyone?

The Wandering God

06-04-2006, 07:41 PM

I dunno, maybe something like Popcap games. Where you buy the license, they give you a password, and you can download at any time.

Or something like that. I never did it. Anyone ever buy a Popcap game off the net?

But I don't see why you guys are so worried about it. I'm sure Nintendo knows what they are doing. They KNOW just how important the Virtual Console is. (Reggie made it clear that part of the Virtual Console was to drawn in past gamers, and they aren't going to screw around with something that could lose them sales.)

The Wandering God

Krylo

06-04-2006, 08:11 PM

I honestly think my frustration with the PS3 has to do with their price.

I mean, I really can't afford it. Even with two price drops, there's simply no way I can get one for a very long time.I honestly don't understand how saving up six hundred dollars is that big of a deal.

I make seven dollars an hour and work forty hours a week. Every two weeks I get between $420 and $450 dollars. I pay $550 dollars + a month just on necessities. I also have a girlfriend whom I have to buy fancy dinners (or less fancy but hardly less expensive ones), take out to dinner, etc. multiple times a week. Yet I've managed to set aside $580, give or take, already--and I'm getting paid this thursday, and there's still how long until they're actually released (and even longer until the PS3 has any games that are going to make it worth buying).

I don't quite grasp why some people find it so hard to save up for it.

I understand why people get irritated that they HAVE to, but the "I can't afford it" line doesn't really swing with me.

Start saving now if you have a job. Set aside about fifty bucks a month. Really, you should do that anyway, just so you have emergency funds if something happens.

If you're too young and you still rely on your parents, have them pool resources with an aunt or grandparent or something to get you one as a christmas/late christmas/birthday present/whatever when it becomes necessary to have one.

While you're at it, stick your PS2 up on Ebay when the time comes. With the PS3's backward compatibility you won't need it anymore.

Really, I know that Sony's price isn't that bad. Especially considering how much they did to make the PS3 respectable for years to come, and their subsequent eating of the cost. But I really don't need the PS3 to have kickass graphics - As games like Shadow of the Colossus show, graphics really depend on the programmers' talent. PS2 is an ancient-ass machine, and look at some of the games out there.Yeah. That's true.

But when you look at that you shouldn't be thinking that's the peak of awesome graphics.

Man, I remember playing some mickey mouse wizarding game for the SNES and thinking "OMG! These graphics are fucking awesome!" Honestly. They aren't.

They were for the SNES, just like Collosus is for the PS2, but it'll probably end up looking like FF7 compared to the games to come.

Now, I agree that graphics aren't necessary--but it's not JUST the programmer's talent. That only allows them to stretch the machine to its fullest extent. That's what they did in a few games on the PS2. Now they're going to start stretching the PS3 to ITS fullest extent in a few years, and that's going to blow the competition away (graphically, of course. The Wii will still have its innovation and fun factor going for it).

Sithdarth

06-04-2006, 09:10 PM

Well I don't currently have a job, even though I'm considering one despite my horrid ability to manage time and how badly it'll cut into college homework time. Also, once I do finally get out of college I'm going to be raped up the you know what paying back student loans. I'm only have way through school and its already up to $250 a month. By time im out of school it'll probably be edging $300-$400 and thats if I want to pay them off in 30 years. Of course I could end up with a job that's not minimum wage in which case well I'd have the money to afford it. But if I don't I'll be lucky to have a roof, or I'll have to keep staying with my parents after college. Also, Not that its everyone but I would assume some people here might be supporting more than just themselves. It might be a budding new family, or they're laid up parents, or maybe just a loser leach of a friend thats always down on his luck.

Now of course I live in New York State where you can't rent an apartment for under $400, and often closing in on $600, dollars a month. Then on top of that the state, and often the local government, rapes you on taxes and utilities. Man does winter suck up here especially with the price of oil as it stands now. Its very easy to see how some people might not have $50 left over each month to put up for a console. Also, as you said there is always the potential that something will come up, car break down for example, and all the saved up money suddenly vanishes. Worse yet they actually get a PS3 and then it happens the next day and then they are shit out of luck.

As for parents well mine wouldn't spend $500 on a computer. The only reason I have as good a computer as I do now is my mom settled a lawsuit against a former employer. Now my relatives, well they'd rather buy me crappy off brand tools and horrible looking jackets I'd never wear. Plus all but one lives out of state and the only grandparent I have left alive is half being supported by my parents.

Long story short I'll probably not be able to afford a PS3 till I'm out of college and have a job in the field I'm training for or until I bite the bullet and get a job now despite the problems it might cause. (Something tells me if I did get a job I'd have to start paying rent to my parents. They did that to my brother and my sisters when they got jobs. It also caused a small spot of trouble between them a few times. Its just another reason why I'd rather not have a job till I'm out of college.)

Bells

06-04-2006, 09:47 PM

Sorry but i cant say that i understand not even 70% of the pricing complaints... over here i would have to cash out something around 2000 bucks for a PS3 (On a Otimist Range for Launch price)

Also, the linux Programming for the PS3 just lets me clear on the fact that soon we will see Emulators for the PS3... NES, Master, SNES, Genesis, MAME, N64, Neo Geo and the such... all running directly from your PS3 HD...

Sithdarth

06-04-2006, 09:58 PM

And that's illegal even if it does happen. So either not many people are going to be using it or the owners of said systems could get uppty with Sony and make them block that. I'm not really up on what has been going on with ROMs but you can bet once Nintendo starts selling them they aren't going to like people giving them away. At least they are going to dislike it more than they already do.

Mirai Gen

06-04-2006, 11:07 PM

I honestly don't understand how saving up six hundred dollars is that big of a deal.

I make seven dollars an hour and work forty hours a week. Every two weeks I get between $420 and $450 dollars. I pay $550 dollars + a month just on necessities. I also have a girlfriend whom I have to buy fancy dinners (or less fancy but hardly less expensive ones), take out to dinner, etc. multiple times a week. Yet I've managed to set aside $580, give or take, already--and I'm getting paid this thursday, and there's still how long until they're actually released (and even longer until the PS3 has any games that are going to make it worth buying).

I don't quite grasp why some people find it so hard to save up for it.

I understand why people get irritated that they HAVE to, but the "I can't afford it" line doesn't really swing with me.

Start saving now if you have a job. Set aside about fifty bucks a month. Really, you should do that anyway, just so you have emergency funds if something happens.

If you're too young and you still rely on your parents, have them pool resources with an aunt or grandparent or something to get you one as a christmas/late christmas/birthday present/whatever when it becomes necessary to have one.

While you're at it, stick your PS2 up on Ebay when the time comes. With the PS3's backward compatibility you won't need it anymore.
It's going around in circles, so I'll just say, you're right. I think that 600$ is exorbent, and if they really wanted to deal with the fact that their console will end up being obsolete, they could take out all of the bells and whistles that people who want to play Kingdom Hearts 3 don't fucking want.

Yeah. That's true.

But when you look at that you shouldn't be thinking that's the peak of awesome graphics.

Man, I remember playing some mickey mouse wizarding game for the SNES and thinking "OMG! These graphics are fucking awesome!" Honestly. They aren't.

They were for the SNES, just like Collosus is for the PS2, but it'll probably end up looking like FF7 compared to the games to come.

Now, I agree that graphics aren't necessary--but it's not JUST the programmer's talent. That only allows them to stretch the machine to its fullest extent. That's what they did in a few games on the PS2. Now they're going to start stretching the PS3 to ITS fullest extent in a few years, and that's going to blow the competition away (graphically, of course. The Wii will still have its innovation and fun factor going for it).
Again, you're right, but time and time again, evidence is shown to me that the PS3's price 'isn't that bad'. Again and again, yeah, you're right, but still - This is like buying a computer that runs "Our Brand Only" games, and I think it's redundant.

I wasn't really asking to be proven wrong, I'm just refusing to pay for that godawful expensive piece of equipment until I see some price drops.

EDIT: Also, I'm kinda a college student. I'm their prime target, and yet they officially fuck me by saying, "Save up money now, biotch!"

Bells

06-04-2006, 11:19 PM

Like i said man... If sony didnt came up with this Stuff every now and then, we just might be still playing cartridges... it would be stupid to use Bluray for games and not Using ir for everything else Bluray can do... AND it wouldnt put the price own as much as you may think...

Sure, Sony coul ditch the CD player, Making every PS1 games owners Gasp in dispair... AND those consumers that would curse sony for not let them use any CD on the PS3... The same Rule would apply to DVD...

Or they could make a Machine that ONLY uses CD's, DVD's and Bluray for games and NOTHING else... making most costumers go "WTF?!", and the price would drop around what? 100-200 tops? Also... PS3 Sales would Drop 10-30% thanks to that...

So if you think that the PS3 has "too much crap in it", you are not really against the PS3 or Sony... you just dont like Bluray... which as far as i saw, its actully a very good Midia for games...

Mirai Gen

06-04-2006, 11:51 PM

Bellsouth, spellchecker. Please.

And, might I add, that '100-200 drop, tops' is precisely what I'm looking for.

So if you think that the PS3 has "too much crap in it", you are not really against the PS3 or Sony... you just dont like Bluray... which as far as i saw, its actully a very good Midia for games...
Well, damn. You figured me out.

I'm not against anything except the exorbent bells and whistles they've strapped on, the overwhelmingly powerful engine it's got, and the fact that whenever questioned about their price, it falls to two things.
1 - Well, it's fair. Look at what we're giving up/compared to the NES at 1986.
2 - Well, fuck you Consumer. We're Sony. Get used to it.

It's the fact that they know goddamn good and well people are going to buy it, beause, well, fuck. It's Sony. Them Play-stations-treces got gamin my son loves. He playes them Eff-pee-essess.

Sure, they're right in that assumption, but I'm really angry that they're so willing to fuck over the casual gamer who doesn't want to pay 600$ for a console (IE, myself) because they have brand-names people want.

I really don't think entertainment should be so goddamn expensive. I know that it is, at least where the PC is concerned, but I need about, what, a couple years before I make a 100-200 dollar upgrade on my video card/RAM? Meanwhile the new Console Wars constantly press more and more out of me.

Yes, I'll have the cheesecake. And can I eat it, too?

EDIT:
If sony didnt came up with this Stuff every now and then, we just might be still playing cartridges...
Buying Sony's console because we theoretically 'owe them one', thanks to them pushing for CD format games is kind of ridiculous.

UZ_White

06-05-2006, 12:41 AM

EDIT: Buying Sony's console because we theoretically 'owe them one', thanks to them pushing for CD format games is kind of ridiculous.

If that's the case, we might as well have "owed Nintendo one" for getting rid of the CD gaming to Sony.

Mirai Gen

06-05-2006, 01:21 AM

Sorry to post so rapidly, but this is stuff worth noting.

Moore: Nobody Cares About Backwards Compatibility (http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/view.php?id=1539)

"Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under promised and over delivered on that. It's a very complicated thing... very complex work. I'm just stunned that we have hundreds of games that are backwards compatible," he said.
Damn. Go Moore.

ATI: Wii Graphics at E3 "Tip of the Iceberg" (http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/view.php?id=1546)
Industry sources have said that the Wii GPU would be moderately more powerful than the GameCube's GPU, but how much more we don't know. Conservative estimates from developers have placed the Wii console as a whole at 2 - 2.5 times more powerful than the GameCube.
Good to know. I'm glad that the Twilight Princess will look even better than what we saw.

Phantom Gaming Service Still in Development, says Infinium (http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/view.php?id=1536)
In an effort to support the launch of the Lapboard, Infinium will also overhaul its corporate website with "major revisions to the design and content... to incorporate direct marketing capabilities including an online merchant store to support business to consumer and business to business transactions with credit card banking services." Infinium added that it's currently examining marketing agency proposals to support interactive online marketing programs; the company will make its agency selections in June.
I think that means they're moving Hard Work in between Lies and Flim-Flam.

I am the edit, not you:
It just seemed right to include. (http://www.little-gamers.com/index.php?comicID=1353)

Bells

06-05-2006, 11:47 AM

Thrust me, we dont "owed them one", none of them, nintendo, sony, or microsoft... they sell, we buy... but if the PS3 had HD-DVD, the "PS4" would have Bluray for sure... but by that time, "the nex best thing" would be about to come out...

And sony would be left fighting with Microsoft with similar consoles, while Nintendo would just take a long free road of ass kicking of the competition...

Sony needed a edge, they couldnt do it with software (not without a system on the market) they did with hardware... its a amazing machine, costier, but amazing...

Of course, that dosent mean that the PS3 wont be the next Dreamcast (Fun, but, too much too soon)

[ray.z]

06-05-2006, 04:43 PM

PS3 may be the next Dreamcast, cause like Bellsouth said, too much too soon.

However, there's no way Sony would go the way of Sega (that is, the streets), cause even though PS3 may lose Sony alot of money, Sony still has deep pockets (even though they are nothing compared to Microsoft's).

Speaking of Microsoft - what a stuff up.

No not their console, or their games (though all of that is open to opinion). But the fact thet they released several months before the other consoles. I would have thought that Microsoft would have known better, considering that new and better computers come out every few weeks.

But it was probably just a tactic of there's - which probably backfired on them, which is kinda evident.

ZERO.

06-05-2006, 04:59 PM

Really, the only thing I think is bad about the 360 is lack of games, that's all if they had more games it would be all good.

MuMu

06-05-2006, 05:04 PM

I don't know about the 360 since it's not too long since it's launched but I hope it doesn't follow the same way as the X-box - Almost no exclusives. Almost all games could be played(And with Better Graphics/Gameplay) on the PC.

ZERO.

06-07-2006, 01:36 AM

Don't forget folks there is always Halo 3 and Fable 2.

I think thoes games will make up for some lost time on the 360.

greed

06-07-2006, 11:36 AM

And Blue Dragon (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/bluedragon/index.html?q=Blue%20Dragon).
From the developers of Chronotrigger, does anything else have to be said?

Definitely getting a Wii, likely a 360 eventually though it's up in the air, largely because Sony's been pissing me off.

Anyway posting because of this (http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Giant_Enemy_Mudcrab). Based on real Japanese battles.

The Wandering God

06-07-2006, 11:56 AM

The more time goes on, the more I see Microsoft totally not promoting the games that would actually convince me to buy a 360. All they push is Live and high profile shooters seemingly.

Yet the more I go out of my way to scratch the surface, there is stuff to see.

Like a Culdcept game. Yum. And that Blue Dragon just mentioned. (The development team of Chrono Trigger is like a whiff of some exotic perfume to my gamer sensibilities.)

The Wandering God

Mirai Gen

06-07-2006, 01:32 PM

Hey, guys!
What about the Phantom? (http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/view.php?id=1536)

Bells

06-07-2006, 06:05 PM

Hey, guys!
What about the Phantom? (http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/view.php?id=1536)

It Sucks! \o/

Krylo

06-07-2006, 08:43 PM

I'd just like to point out that Fable was on the computer and better than the X-Box version, and that Fable 2 will probably do the same thing.

phil_

06-07-2006, 10:24 PM

I'm going to put this here, as it's important, but not important enough to justify another "Hey, the Wii may actually make dreams come true" thread.

So, I'll guess that some of us already heard Iwata's statement on the return of friend-codes for the Wii, making quite a few cringe at the idea of multiple, long, random number codes required to play someone you know. I know that, at least elsewhere, there have been attempts by forum-goers to rationalise this (for example, only having one friend code, and having it apply to the system, not the game). Well, Nintendo filed this patent (this is a link to the US Patent site) (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7056217.PN.&OS=PN/7056217&RS=PN/7056217), detailing plans for something akin to AIM crossed with Gaia crossed with Xbox Live (this is a link to the article I quote below). (http://www.codenamerevolution.com/?p=800#more-800)According to the latest United States patent (7056217) filed by Nintendo (planned six years ago) and is now published on June 6th, 2006 it states the following:

Title: Messaging service for video game systems with buddy list that displays game being played

Description: A messaging system includes a web server computer and at least two video game systems. Each game system is configured to connect to the web server computer via the Internet and to communicate status data indicative of an activity engaged in by a user thereof. The web server computer generates a session file indicative of user status and the status of each of two or persons on a buddy list of the user.

The messaging service client provides the user with an opportunity to create a user profile that is stored in the memory of network server…The user profile may contain any desired user-specific information including, but not limited to, an alias, first name, last name, gender, age, city, state, favorite game, favorite food, favorite sport, hobbies, recommended URL and notes…If desired, users may also be given an opportunity to indicate high scores and other accomplishments achieved on the game network or on stand-alone games. Users may also be provided with the capability of including in their profiles customized faces (images) made up of various user-selected features (e.g., a particular nose, mouth, mustache, etc.) in order to enhance the “persona” of the user. These customized faces may be included with messages. Users may even be provided with the capability of including in their profiles digital images of their own faces generated, for example, using a digital camera…

The messaging service client allows the user to create a list (”buddy list”) of other users (”buddies”) with whom he/she wishes to remain in contact…The connecting user and his/her buddies can then communicate with each other on an individual basis and private chat sessions can be set up. These chat sessions are typically text-based, but it also possible to set up voice over Internet sessions between two users…

Each of the game systems includes an input device(s) that is usable by a user to create messages. In the case of a game console, an on-screen keyboard may be used and the game controls are usable to select characters from the on-screen keyboard to create messages. In another implementation, a separate keyboard (not shown) may be connected to the game console. In still another implementation, the input device may be a microphone to enable voice over IP communications. Voice over IP may be implemented within the messaging service.

According to the patent the system will have a View Associate List, Block List, User Preferences, Profile, Access, Status, Rules list, Alerts and Autostart Alerts. It also speaks about the possibility of a portable game console to use this (DS + Wii? sounds mindblowing).

Although Nintendo has always had this planned it seems with the Wii this is now possible. Keep in mind a motion-sensing controller was always planned for the Gamecube long ago. But with these revelations of a possible keyboard, a headset, a ability to most likely use SD Cards to upload pictures and an amazing instant messenger system, it seems highly likely this will end up on the Wii. The Wii just gets better.Reading the actual patent grants further info, kinda. It's more specific, anyway.

Still, buddy list, the ability to pause a game and chat (claims 11 through 13), a customisable avatar (though not quite to, say, Nuklear Power standards), and the ability to delete yourself from annoying folks' buddy list (claim 9).

Though I should include this disclaimer that this is only a filed patent, not a press-release or an official announcement or anything, so it may not be implemented at launch or at all, if only to keep up an aura of detatchment and suave-itude... not that I particularly foster that image...

Still, it's encouraging.

Fifthfiend

06-07-2006, 11:39 PM

And Blue Dragon (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/bluedragon/index.html?q=Blue%20Dragon).
From the developers of Chronotrigger

Aw shit would you look at that, Microsoft just took a bunch of my money.

Well played, you rat bastards.

Mondt

06-07-2006, 11:48 PM

The more time goes on, the more I see Microsoft totally not promoting the games that would actually convince me to buy a 360. All they push is Live and high profile shooters seemingly.And the problem?

People play World of Warcraft/EverQuest/DAoC/UA/Starwars Galaxies/etc. for hours on end, yet promoting internet games mostly is bad? Sure, most of them are shooters, but by God, there is every kind of shooter out there now! We got strategy, run 'n' gun, squad thingies, realistic, and the list goes on!

</sarcasm, 'cept the beginning>

Krylo

06-08-2006, 12:14 AM

Before you waste too much money on that, Fifth, I'd like to point out that Chrono Cross was also made by the creators of Chrono Trigger.

Bells

06-08-2006, 02:48 AM

Just to tell'ya what i just saw on IGN

Virtual console's New games for the wii will cost between $4.50 to $8.50 (Nt the price for NES, SNES, N64 an such, only new games MADE for the virtual console)

ZERO.

06-08-2006, 02:59 AM

Mirai Gen

06-08-2006, 03:18 AM

Just to tell'ya what i just saw on IGN

Virtual console's New games for the wii will cost between $4.50 to $8.50 (Nt the price for NES, SNES, N64 an such, only new games MADE for the virtual console)
Next time, provide linkage. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3151299) Makes it easy.

Mondt

06-08-2006, 08:18 AM

Holy crap, check it out if you don't like the games that are coming out for the 360, I think this may be a little surprise. (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/s/sonicthehedgehog/)

I did not see this coming to be honest with you, this game shall be mine.*Runs in circles, singing random songs off the Martha Stewarts Favorites CD that he never even heard*

That is all.

ZAKtheGeek

06-08-2006, 09:28 AM

Holy crap, check it out if you don't like the games that are coming out for the 360, I think this may be a little surprise.

I did not see this coming to be honest with you, this game shall be mine.
Just so you know, that's very old news. Sonic the hedgehog, 15th anniversary, for PS3 and 360. Known well prior to e3, I think...

The Wandering God

06-08-2006, 09:31 AM

I hope you have a lot of patience, as the Wii price and release date just might take a little while.

Wii price, date to be announced "by September" (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152417.html)

I would imagine part of the reason is that they are still trying to get all the details in order before releasing the price point. Virtual Console, attachment and Wiimote prices, online capabilities, and so forth.

All I really, really want to know is when they are going to release the list of Virtual Console titles. (It WILL be a big deal.) But I'd be willing to wait if it meant more games on the list...

I'm talking to you Square. I swear, if you don't make Super Mario RPG for the SNES available, I will... um...

Write a REALLY angry email...

Yeah. That'll work.

The Wandering God

ZAKtheGeek

06-08-2006, 09:40 AM

Hm, I thought there was a list of confirmed virtual console games somewhere...

Mirai Gen

06-08-2006, 01:31 PM

Hm, I thought there was a list of confirmed virtual console games somewhere...
Probably a list of "Very Likely Games".

I mean, they will put stuff like Sonic and Zelda and all of the Mario Brothers on there. There's too much sales not to.

What worries me is if it's going to be 'locked out' from games that are third-party. We know that Sega's giving Nintendo head right now, so Sonic is still in. But I'm wondering about Street Fighter and Final Fantasy and the like.

And yeah, Chrono Trigger/Super Mario RPG.

Bells

06-08-2006, 02:01 PM

Just so you know...

Heavy Rain tech Demo...

Made in just a few weeks from scratch

Running on Real Time IN the PS3 system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHi0t380PQo&search=Heavy%20rain%20ps3

ZAKtheGeek

06-08-2006, 07:10 PM

The PS3 can produce realistic graphics?

Oh my. This is quite the revelation.

Bells

06-08-2006, 07:23 PM

The PS3 can produce realistic graphics?

Oh my. This is quite the revelation.

��.......

"OMG!! i Knooooooow.... Thew Als'o sad Stuufz likes, the controller Rav Buttons & 'Shi't'and' Ledz, and Gmaes with SOUNDZ and stuff...!1!"

Anyfuck...

I liked the video because it was presented as NOT CG, but realtime Graphics... AND it was made from scratch in just a few weeks...

knowing that the PS3 can generate such good animations in realtime in such short ammount of time it IS quite the revelation

MuMu

06-08-2006, 07:25 PM

MGS 4 was Real Time...Not made in weeks, but real time.

Nikose Tyris

06-08-2006, 07:42 PM

...I'm sitting and watching this video... and my brain is SCREAMING at me... it is saying, "Nikose, THINK ABOUT IT. YOUR WEBCAM CAN DO THAT!" I swear to god, it doesn't look real. in fact, it looks like someone made that with a webcam, designed to look like a game. it... I'm sorry, but I need verification on that video clip in particular to beleive it.

Bells

06-08-2006, 07:52 PM

Sithdarth

06-08-2006, 08:10 PM

Nikose Tyris

06-08-2006, 08:17 PM

...I watched the videos at gamespot and compared the one that was on youtube... the youtube one still looked fake to me.

Bells

06-08-2006, 08:18 PM

Seriously if that how games on the PS3 are going to look you can count me out. That falls right smack dab in the middle of the uncanny valley for me. Human enough to freak me the hell out but not quite human enough to look natural. Man that was creapy as all hell.

Really? I Almost Crapped my pants on Playing Resident Evil 1 on PSX when it lauched.. never played more then 4 hours of it...

But i cant WAIT to see something like Fatal Frame on the PS3 now

Sithdarth

06-08-2006, 08:31 PM

I think you misunderstand what I mean by the uncanny valley. This is the uncanny valley. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley) The girl that was sitting in the chair fell in about the same spot as a zombie and thats not good when you're going for life-like human.

Bells

06-08-2006, 10:10 PM

Oooooooooh THAT!! Yeah... i've reed that...

But her acting were directly expressed by a true actress rendered to 3d (so they are just showing us their potencial to copy human expressions down to detail into a 3d System) but there are quite a few problems here and there... mostly on her face (and there is no way in denying that her lips are FAR from good on the Lipsync)

But as this game is Due only to Fall / 08 ...DAMN i think this is going to be grand

Fifthfiend

06-08-2006, 10:16 PM

Just so you know...

Heavy Rain tech Demo...

Made in just a few weeks from scratch

Running on Real Time IN the PS3 system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHi0t380PQo&search=Heavy%20rain%20ps3

Honestly, I wasn't that impressed.

Just got a huge uncanny valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley) vibe off the whole thing.

Bells

06-09-2006, 12:57 AM

Honestly, I wasn't that impressed.

Just got a huge uncanny valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley) vibe off the whole thing.

hum! Funny enough i just noticed that the Wikipedia page on this matter was updated with a Link talking about THIS tech demo :eek:

Also on this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Rain

So, with a whole year ahead to work on this, and this animations in real time being so important to this title, i actually belive that there is a chance for this company to push BEYOND the valley

Sithdarth

06-09-2006, 01:36 AM

See they've pretty much maxed out what the hardware can do graphics wise with that demo. Sure they didn't put a lot of time into it but it wasn't very long. Nor did it allow for free form input of motion and all that. Also, once you hit that level of detail looking more human isn't about how many polygons and how much detail texture-wise you can shove on the screen.

What made that character so uncanny was the slightly unnatural movement. The way clothes and skin didn't bend and wrinkle quite right. This leads to a plastic feel to the whole thing. If they couldn't get those right in a tech demo that short in a few weeks with probably 10 or more people working then its not going to happen in a game. I still doubt even the PS3 has the power to render graphics that detailed while running a physics engine robust enough to wrinkle clothes properly.

Oh and this was never a problem before because of the lack of detail. There the player was allowed to suspend disbelief and fill in the gaps. Here it just looks far to human for those little things not to freak me out. Hell I had trouble with some of the CG scenes in FFX. If the whole game had been like that I probably would have shut it off 10 minutes in.

spazzhands

06-09-2006, 03:46 AM

And you do know that someone still had to draw all those little details in the demo...

Its not like the PS3 has an imagination of its own that allows it to create its own cutscenes! A team of artists still had to make it, and they all need to be paid... And in a real game, you also need to pay the level designers, the programmers, the animators, whoever works on the physics, and all the actors. Even if you have people do several of those jobs at once, because you are paying for their time...

Sure, you don't need to put that much effort into a single game that most people will probably have stopped playing in five weeks... But then again, who would buy it then? Its not like creativity makes enough money nowadays. People will buy the next shinier sequel because they know what they are buying. Game designers have too much at stake with something like PS3.

I live in England, I pay enough for my games as it is!

Fifthfiend

06-09-2006, 07:03 AM

hum! Funny enough i just noticed that the Wikipedia page on this matter was updated with a Link talking about THIS tech demo :eek:

Huh, you know, I didn't even catch that.

So, with a whole year ahead to work on this, and this animations in real time being so important to this title, i actually belive that there is a chance for this company to push BEYOND the valley

I'll believe it when I see it.

[ray.z]

06-09-2006, 08:34 AM

Words cannot express how awesome that video was.

I seriously can't describe it. All I can say is that my breathing is damn heavy.

It looked so damn realistic, and that's ironic cause it's a demo for an audition game. But I seriously thought that the girl was real, especially when she was holding the gun up. It was so damn ... ... beautiful.

I'd love to see all PS3 games like that (even though I probably won't get one).

My friends and I discussed at some point what developers would do with 25 gigs of space per blu ray disc - we thought it would be unlikely that they could even fill it up, and even came up with the thought that they'd proably just put several languages of the game onto one disc.

Oh how wrong we were.

But like what's been said before by myself and other's - how will every PS3 game be able to match up to that amazing level of quality. Developers would be very hard pressed to do so.

Hey, good luck to them - cause if they can match such graphics like that with incredible gameplay, games will become more entertaining then ever. While they may not be as involved as the Wii, they'll make games seem like darn movies with the audience (i.e. you) playing a role.

It's a shame she was too tall though - the demo would have been better :p .

ZAKtheGeek

06-09-2006, 07:43 PM

The lips seemed very unnatural to me. I'm not sure why exactly, maybe they were too static or something...

I still doubt even the PS3 has the power to render graphics that detailed while running a physics engine robust enough to wrinkle clothes properly.
And even if it can? This is what the cell processor does for you. This is what you'd be paying for. Properly wrinkling clothes. This is my main problem with the graphical game improvement approach: the stunning inefficiency.

Krylo

06-09-2006, 08:01 PM

They were a bit static, and didn't move with the rest of her face/her voice properly.

They were also slightly further away from her teeth than they should have been in a few shots, and the inside of her mouth in general could have used some work--a lot of that was probably projected to her lips, as that her mouth looked wrong from it, and the lips looked wrong... so unless you were looking closely you'd probably attribute it all to the lips.

Also, I'd like to point people who accuse the PS3 games of all falling into uncanny valley to the FFXIII trailer. That's what games are probably going to look like.

FURTHER, for those who assume that this is the 'epitome' of PS3 graphics and they won't move beyond it, I'd like to point out the vast graphical difference between FF7 and FFIX.

Both ran on the PS1 but one was made early, with only rudimentary understanding of the PS1's system and devkits. The other was made near the end of the PS1's run.

The difference in graphical quality almost makes them look like they're from different systems.

Further, smooth movement is generally something that is controlled by internal processes in the game's programming that can take months to program out properly. Not something that is done purely by the people doing the graphics.

Yes, a week or so seems like a long time to spend on something that short, but in practice it's just not so. Given a few months to create the internal software to control her movement they could have extended that scene for hours with greater realism, and about the same amount of 'actual' graphics work, textures and what have you--assuming that the cell processer is capable of it (which, given that no console has ever been tapped anywhere NEAR to its fullest potential even within the first year of release, much less before release, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt).

That was something some people spent a few weeks on, and which was done before the PS3 ever came out.

Graphics in fully made games have months or longer spent on them, with teams of equal or greater size working on them.

And, more over, the devkits most likely aren't fully understood, nor has the true depth of the system's ability been developed. Any logical conclusion coming from past experiences from every console ever created can only be that this is merely scratching the surface of the capabilities of the PS3.

Plus, just look at that gun and kitchen. Seriously. Wow.

Fifthfiend

06-09-2006, 08:31 PM

I'm not making any overall judgements here.

Sometimes you get Advent Children, sometimes you get Spirits Within.

Also, having sat through the whole thing, the Uncanny Valley-ness of that whole thing sort of fades as you get into it. I don't know if it's just less noticable the more you watch or if it just happens to work in the context of her 'playing' a menacing crazy revenge-killer.

Bells

06-09-2006, 08:35 PM

The PS3 is annoucing that the things we dreamed of with the PS1 (Playable CG's) can be done now...

A small idea can make jsut about all the difference... like it was said... FF7 to FF9... same Hardware... just 1 more Disc... more knowledge on the "Knowhow" department... and there we go...

Firs they started on 3d only with squares... then, someone tried Triangles and the whole thing changed for better!

I saw the Sonic Demo for the Wii... and i really think it sucked... BUT im pretty darn sure that the Wii will give us a LOT of good titles... later... the same with the PS3...

Its not just about the pretty graphics... (although they ARE going for some quite nice stuuf here and there) ...but nice Physics... well develope Ragdolls, games with 60-80-120 hours of non-boring gameplay, live scenary... i really think that we are in for some real nice surprises next year

spazzhands

06-10-2006, 07:43 AM

Check the bold section.
The PS3 is annoucing that the things we dreamed of with the PS1 (Playable CG's) can be done now...

Its not just about the pretty graphics... (although they ARE going for some quite nice stuuf here and there) ...but nice Physics... well develope Ragdolls, games with 60-80-120 hours of non-boring gameplay, live scenary... i really think that we are in for some real nice surprises next year

But will that ever happen... Will it Buggery!
Face it, people still have to make the games themselves, the console merely runs it. Will game developers ever make a game that long if it requires any extra development or effort. No. Because they don't have to!
We gamers are willing to pay for a game that only lasts us 9 hours at worst. If the designers think they can get away with twelve hours of gameplay, then they will use twelve. And then make a semi-sequel if the first half of the game is a success. Its not like they would want you to only pay once for the game they put so much effort into! I certainly wouldn't, and if the price is going up for the games, its for the ridiculously expensive graphics, not the amount of fun you have playing it!

Bamboozehound

06-10-2006, 01:19 PM

Ah yes, the old "better graphics should make better games" theory.

... yeah. :/ This is exactly what I would like the video game industry to avoid, since better graphics don't make better games. The only "better" games are good games compared to poor games. That arguement is seperate from the power of a particular console, anyway. I'd go so far as to say that sort of argument is only preferable from the perspective of corporate management, Sony in particular: they don't make their games, they can only control the performance of their console. Again, that does not equate to controlling the quality of the given games. Simply comparing new game graphics to old game graphics will always "prove" that new games are "better" in that specific context, which means nothing about the actual gameplay or content.

Mirai Gen

06-10-2006, 01:22 PM

The Console Wars II has gotten so utterly redundant with me, I just channel my anger against Sony's arrogant logic into a mere "The PS3 isn't for me yet."

But I digress - I haven't seen the video yet (probably won't, I'm lazy like that), but I'm with Krylo. Just look at the release titles for the PS2 and then go play Shadow of the Colossus. These graphics could get better.

That's not really what I want, which is why I'm not getting the PS3 for a while, but to be fair, that's pretty impressive.

Bells

06-10-2006, 03:51 PM

i wasnt talking about a game that you -need- 120 hours to finish... i was talking about a game that you coudl -play- for that long without being bored or going "meh... nothing new here...", replay value also needs Disc Space...

And please... Hardawre isnt just about graphics... sure, realistic games DO get better with better graphics... but a more powerfull hardware means a LOT more then just that...

Steel Shadow

06-10-2006, 03:54 PM

I don't think I've ever stopped playing a game for "nothing new here". A game with nothing new should be quite hard to do without getting your pants sued off.
Of course, I played through midnight nowhere, so I may not be a good judge.

Bells

06-10-2006, 04:02 PM

God games never get old... people STILL play Castlevania SOTN, to see if they can go beyond the "400%" on the map...

And there are people trying to port a Rom of FFT to the PC so they can edit it into a fan made sequel...

So, if a game dosent give you somethign to do... fans will FIND something to do

Krylo

06-10-2006, 05:51 PM

But will that ever happen... Will it Buggery!
Face it, people still have to make the games themselves, the console merely runs it. Will game developers ever make a game that long if it requires any extra development or effort. No. Because they don't have to!
We gamers are willing to pay for a game that only lasts us 9 hours at worst. If the designers think they can get away with twelve hours of gameplay, then they will use twelve. And then make a semi-sequel if the first half of the game is a success. Its not like they would want you to only pay once for the game they put so much effort into! I certainly wouldn't, and if the price is going up for the games, its for the ridiculously expensive graphics, not the amount of fun you have playing it!
That's a ridiculous arguement.

Seriously, look at the length of Legend of Zelda (the first) and Link's Adventure to Link to the Past, and then compare that to Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

Or compare DQ1/2/3 on the NES to DQ8 on the PS2. The first three games rank in the sixty hour zone if you're an insane completionist, and can be beaten in a day, two at the most, if you speed play (and most of that time is just because leveling is a huge bitch). DQ8 ranks in the one hundred and twenty hour zone for most people, and would still take a good 40 hours or so on a speed play--and, thanks to things like whistle, most of that time is from actual game play, not levelling.

Compare FF1 to FFX, even. FFX was a very straight forward game with little in the way of sidequests. It was also a very quick game.

It still manages to be longer than FF1.

By your logic we'd have no games that require over thirty hours to beat, because that's what the NES gave us.

No, scratch that: we'd have no games that would take over fifteen hours, because that's what the Atari gave us.

I mean, we were willing to pay for fifteen hours on the Atari, why would they give us more play time with the NES?

Because game producers aren't JUST big corporate shells. Things like DMC, Chrono Trigger, FF6, KH, Mercenaries, GTA, Mario, Zelda, Lunar, FFT etc. don't come from big corporate shells. They come from groups of artists. Dedicated individuals who want to make something.

New technology allows them to make something greater, and they will make something greater. Not JUST because we'll buy it (although that's why the company will give the go ahead to make it), but because they want to.

Bamboozehound

06-10-2006, 06:36 PM

Actually, KH, GTA, and a lot of the more recent FF games do come from big corporate shells. Are you trying to tell me that Kingdom Hearts includes iconic characters owned by Squareenix and Disney, yet isn't a corporate product? The lead developer of the GTA series said he keeps making the games because it's money in the bank. Hm, I think you are being a bit blind there.

And I think you are interpeting part of spazz's post wrong, too: he said it was the developers who make the product, not the corporate overhead, which is what you agree with. The thing spazz is worried about (and me too) is that typical games on a Sony or Microsoft console tend to be released before the product is completed. That's how they work: if the basic formula shows promise in the open market, it gets turned into a series so the developers can complete it. This forces even the greatest games to start below their intended target performance, and it ends up hurting the consumer by flooding the market with cheesy products. (Fable, PD: Zero?)

Hypothetical situation: A company (Blarecroft-Weenix) has a very popular series of games (Spinal Spantasy). They continue to release titles under this franchise because its garunteed to turn a profit. They spend the most resources on this franchise, pushing other great game titles aside for the benifit of the more popular franchise. Is this good? Who knows, it's only a hypothetical.

"But game development is expensive!" you might say. "Corporate interests need a return on their investments to continue production on a grand scale." And yes, that is true. The higher the console performs, the developer will be required to have more and more skill. This costs more money, and unfairly raises the standard of production above the heads of smaller and less experienced development teams. And who said one corporation should be leading the industry? Consumers lose when big buisnesses don't have to fight for consumer dollars. This is detrimental to the consumer. That system limits us to choosing only cheesy new games, or old staple franchises. It's practically impossible for a new game to be good.

I think the lead director of Ubisoft said something to the effect of, "Sony wants to turn developers into factory workers." That is not an exaggeration: they want games to roll off assembly lines and into the market as quickly as possible. That's not really bad, but they tend to take it to an extreme that hurts either the developers or the consumers for their own benifit.

Not so on Nintnedo brand products. Sure, not every Nintendo game is loved by all, but that Official Seal of Quality means that all their games are as good as they can be. I remember that Jedi Knight II: Outcast actually performed better on the Gamecube than it did on the Xbox. Does this mean the Xbox is less powerful than the GC? No, Nintendo just does a damn good job no matter what. As a consumer, what more could I ask from anyone?

Krylo

06-10-2006, 06:49 PM

Bamboozehound

06-10-2006, 07:37 PM

Well, you got me there. Spazz, it's not the developer's fault, not entirely. But a new system does not make development better.

Bells

06-10-2006, 08:03 PM

ZAKtheGeek

06-10-2006, 08:39 PM

I don't know... probably, at least some games are mostly for the money as opposed to for creating a vision. For example, consider all the movie-based games. Do you really think their designers had artistic visions for their games, or were they just creating a way to make money off another product?

Bells

06-10-2006, 08:41 PM

a lot of Sequels go on that category too... when movies start to come out BEFORE the movie, baby jesus cries...

MuMu

06-10-2006, 08:58 PM

the same rule apply to any Megaman, Mario, Final Fantasy and Zelda out there...

You are joking right? Megaman is one fucking Milker Cow, and Final Fantasy is becoming(or already became?) one.

Bells

06-10-2006, 09:54 PM

You are joking right? Megaman is one fucking Milker Cow, and Final Fantasy is becoming(or already became?) one.

Final Fantasy started to became one after FF X
And Megaman became one after X4

Regulus Tera

06-10-2006, 09:58 PM

More like Megaman was already one at Megaman 4. And even though X-2 started the trend, ADVENT CHILDREN perfected it.

Bells

06-10-2006, 10:04 PM

Yeah... but that is a delicate subject... its not like Devil May Cry 2, 3 and 4 were made just for the sake of a great story well told...

Final Fantasy AC was more Fanservice... thats no so much as a Milking cow as a few of the Buggilions Need for Speed's and Megaman "new" Series...

Regulus Tera

06-10-2006, 10:11 PM

Yeah... but that is a delicate subject... its not like Devil May Cry 2, 3 and 4 were made just for the sake of a great story well told...

Not like Megaman 3's story or gameplay was so much different from 2. Oh, lookit me! I got a Rush dog! Now I can jump on a sproing! I'm the lollercoaster!

And fanservice, by my definition, is milking the cow. Now, the Compilation? That's raping its dead body 'til the maggots get impregnated with your babies.

[ray.z]

06-11-2006, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by ZAKtheGeek
I don't know... probably, at least some games are mostly for the money as opposed to for creating a vision. For example, consider all the movie-based games. Do you really think their designers had artistic visions for their games, or were they just creating a way to make money off another product?
Originally posted byBellsouth Minion
a lot of Sequels go on that category too... when movies start to come out BEFORE the movie, baby jesus cries...
That may be so for many movie, franchise or sequel games - but what about prequel games. They often shed valueable insight onto the story and/on characters. And I think the need to tell a story by the developers is shown through their games.

Just because they're making money off it doesn't make it wrong - they're just giving us what we want.

But about compilation's - Neko Tera-San is dead right. It's just plain wrong. There's nothing added to the series, in fact, it's value can be deminished. And it gets worse cause it's starting to happen more and more. All it does is bring more money to the pockets of developers.

@ Bellsouth Minion: When movies start to come out BEFORE the movie, baby jesus cries? What does that mean?

Krylo

06-11-2006, 02:23 AM

He meant when games come out before movies. Like the new starwars or x-3.

Also, I don't see a problem with compilations. It's giving people the chance to play games they wouldn't otherwise have the ability to buy.

But, seriously, if you want to talk about compiliations and sequels, etc. please start a new thread.

This is the console wars. Not the 'do sequels make game developers evil' thread.

Bamboozehound

06-11-2006, 02:27 AM

Actually... Disney and Square on a Serious RPG sounds like any True Gamers Dream... whic.. developers are in the core...

i mean... something like Spore dosent get made just by trying to milk money out of gamers... the same rule apply to any Megaman, Mario, Final Fantasy and Zelda out there... thats the Producing team trying to be remenber as "the guy who did THAT on THAT game"...

I mean... C'mon... dont you think that the guy who created Wario or Sephiroth feels proud of their work? Evey designer who worked on Final Fantasy Advent Children?! Thats their jobs Legacy... they do it because it what they woudlwant to play if they were just gamers... pretty much like us...

Now.. the marketing department.. there's were evil lies...
First, there is an edit button. I use it, you can too.

As a consumer, I'm not buying games to support some dork's ego, just as much as I don't buy games to line rich people's pockets with jewels and spices.

I think Sephiroth is okay but not the god-boss you believe him to be; Advent Children is the exact sort of cheesy money-whoring I don't like; the lead developer for Katamari Damacy said he wouldn't play video games unless someone paid him to.

Yes, marketing is evil. More evil than you know apparently.
You are joking right? Megaman is one fucking Milker Cow, and Final Fantasy is becoming(or already became?) one.
He's mixing bad series with golden (or cash) cow series. It's called the bait and switch.

For example, consider all the movie-based games. Do you really think their designers had artistic visions for their games, or were they just creating a way to make money off another product?
Mostly, movie-to-game products are all about the money. However, Goldeneye for Nintendo's N64 was a wet dream many still fondly remember. That also bears a nod to Nintendo's wonderful colaboration with Rare.

This goes well along with how I've been saying Nintendo doesn't half-ass their projects. They are the console developers, producers, marketers, and they make the games or at least colaborate with third party developers. They acknowledge the fact that they can only make money by selling video game products, so they make efforts to do that to the best of their ability.

This is evidenced by their Zelda, Mario, and Metroid franchises: each have had spin-offs with varying success (Mario RPG being a high note, Mario is Missing being bad) but the main series are always top quality. To be more on topic, the Wii titles of those franchises are going to play heavy factors at the launching. The Wii will break records.

Final Fantasy started to became one after FF X
And Megaman became one after X4
After FF3j, Square just couldn't risk making games too novel and FF4j set the stage that even FFXIII is based on. I mean, I really liked FF6j, and 7 was okay. I like techno opera, but these games havn't really changed since FF4j. From 3j, the experience and skill systems are practically the identicle. Joe Hero finds Jane in Distress, love story. These are called "Crystals" and those are "Materia". That's the final boss? The end.

Technically, the Mega Man series was cash-cowed after the very first game: the bosses of every other title are fan-made submissions. Mostly children. Quality varies spontaneously.

Not like Megaman 3's story or gameplay was so much different from 2. I think the best thing about MM3 is the Protomen, but I admit to having an unhealthy obsession with their take on the game and the game itself.

That may be so for many movie, franchise or sequel games - but what about prequel games. They often shed valueable insight onto the story and/on characters. And I think the need to tell a story by the developers is shown through their games.
I need examples. I already mentioned Goldeneye for it's superior gameplay, but I don't know of too many games that add on to the movies they represent. Actually, all the ones I can name are made out of the interest because the movie is popular, or vice versa.

The Wandering God

06-11-2006, 02:30 AM

Um, guys. Maybe this who thing abous sequels is considered off-topic. Maybe. I dunno. Just make a thread about it if you really want to talk about it.

In more relevant news, I know this is the "console" wars thread, but I'm pretty sure handhelds would fit in here too.

All I'm saying is, is that the DS Lite is coming out today (June 11th) in the USA. After having it a month, I love it more every day. While it might not seem there are that many games for the system, there are plenty of gems I totally would consider worth it.

And it's only $129.99 (same price as the regular DS).

And for all you planning on getting a Wii might as well get it, so you can be nice and ready for the inevitable connectivity.

The Wandering God

EDIT: Damn, Krylo totally ninja'd me on my first point. Uh, go me I guess for being of like mind with the mods. :)

Bells

06-11-2006, 05:49 AM

spazzhands

06-11-2006, 05:50 AM

Corporate shells provide money.

Developers create.

Developers are artists.

Yes, this holds true even in KH and FF.

ALSO: Spazzhands replied directly to someone saying that the disks allow us to have longer games, by saying that won't happen because developers are lazy.

That's what I got out of his post.

I don't know where you got what you're reading there, because he never said that (and indeed, made exactly the point I interpreted in an earlier thread, worded much more closely to how I said it). Honestly, I've no idea how you get "Sony is forcing people to make games faster" out of a post that never mentions Sony directly, nor mentions games being 'hurried' by the producers, but rather mentions the designers SPECIFICALLY multiple times.

The producers do have a lot to do with the developers decisions, since they are the ones who decide ultimately whether or not the game gets released.

And do you really think the games market will be controlled by artists if you have millions of dollars at stake for each game? Sometimes artists do something that is either unpopular or has a niche following, both are absolute failures for both the producers and designers. With something like Wii, the developers can just make their game and publish it on the virtual console without risking too much, with the PS3 however, you need good graphics, because otherwise it will not sell. The vast majority of games are judged by the screenshots on the back of the box, if developers spend more of their limited effort on making the game more replayable, or more fun, they will lose sales.

Putting more money into an industry takes the artists out of control, and puts business men in charge. Because they are better at making money.

And if just as many people will buy a twelve hour long game with amazing graphics than a twenty eight hour game with merely functional graphics. Then developers (with the possible coersion of producers) will sell the former immediately, and then release the semi sequel if there is enough demand. There is too much money at stake to take a risk of selling something unsuccessful.

Again, the money involved leads people to such uncrupulous tactics. Why make only $40 on one game when you can make $80 on two half games with nice graphics instead. The "Artists" may not like it, but they arent the ones in control any more!

EDIT: Also, in response to that last paragraph, my original post was in reply to a post by Bellsouth Minion about Sony and PS3. So yes, my post was about Sony.

Sithdarth

06-11-2006, 06:05 AM

sequels are actually related to the New Console Wars... as pretty much all the new consoles are using sequels to propel them on lauch day... (Although, you just might consider Mario and Zelda as much of a sequel as Any Final Fantasy after 1) i said this before... can any of this consoles rely on fixed franchises and/or sequels?

Dude when a mod comes into a thread, especially one he himself created, and tells you that your moving off topic there generally isn't room for discussion. Besides the actually argument has insanely little to actually do with the new consoles. So far its mostly been about how good they are, how much money they make, who controls them, ect. Its really not on topic at all.

All that being said, I've lately been comptemplating coning my parents into getting me a 360 for my birthday next weekend. Not sure if its really going to be worth it though. Knowing me I'll eventually want one so I think I'm going to go for it. Might not be able to convince them though.

As for graphics on the PS3 I'm taking a wait and see approach because Sony really over estimated the power of the PS2 a couple of times. I guess I'll believe when I play a production PS3 in the electronics department of Wal Mart.

[ray.z]

06-11-2006, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by Krylo
I don't know where you got what you're reading there, because he never said that (and indeed, made exactly the point I interpreted in an earlier thread, worded much more closely to how I said it). Honestly, I've no idea how you get "Sony is forcing people to make games faster" out of a post that never mentions Sony directly, nor mentions games being 'hurried' by the producers, but rather mentions the designers SPECIFICALLY multiple times.
Well what abouts that Warhawk demo? The developers of that game only had about a week or so prior to E3 to make that game, or at least get it ready for E3 (due to the fact that Sony jumped on the motion controllers at the last second).

Also, I'm not an artist, but when I draw something I think is neat, I feel pretty damn proud of it. But hey, if these artists working on games believe they aren't getting enough room to spread their wings as such, then maybe they should consider another related career of which they can do so (please don't though!).

But in the end, artists are essential - cause without them, how would developers sell any games? Maybe developers should encourage greater artistic freedom, so that maybe the quality of games does rise.

@ Bamboozehound: Well I can't think of any game prequels at the moment, or probably at all - I guess I was thinking more about movies and tv episodes :sweatdrop.

@Sithdarth: Chances are, as soon as the PS3 (and to a lesser extent) the Nintendo Wii come out, Microsoft will lower they're prices just to grab a bit more of the market - so bide your time and either get it when the prices drop, or don't get it at all and purchase one (or two or three) of the other consoles.

Mirai Gen

06-11-2006, 05:34 PM

Look, if anyone has any more words to talk about sequels and Cash Cow milking, start a new thread. Take it outside. Not the place.

All I'm saying is, is that the DS Lite is coming out today (June 11th) in the USA. After having it a month, I love it more every day. While it might not seem there are that many games for the system, there are plenty of gems I totally would consider worth it.

And it's only $129.99 (same price as the regular DS).

And for all you planning on getting a Wii might as well get it, so you can be nice and ready for the inevitable connectivity.
I'm very tempted to, but I'm trying to stop spending money for enough time to save for a Wii. Besides - unless Mr. Potatomoto decides to go fucking apeshit on me, I won't be that far off.

'sides, I'd rather just get a much cheaper DS regular. Which reminds me - Is there anything significantly different in terms of hardware between Lite and original? Not like, "oo, pretty!" hardware, but add-ons?

Bells

06-11-2006, 05:45 PM

'sides, I'd rather just get a much cheaper DS regular. Which reminds me - Is there anything significantly different in terms of hardware between Lite and original? Not like, "oo, pretty!" hardware, but add-ons?

I Guess that's just the Bigger Brighter screen and not so much more else

[ray.z]

06-11-2006, 07:03 PM

Well actually the screeen isnt bigger - its just brighter.

Fell first thing - it's 21% lighter and has 42% less volume than the original.

Longer battery life, stronger hinge, more scratch resistant touch screen.

But no significant addons I believe - just the movement of the microphone and stylus.

Ooh ooh and I almost forgot - pretty colours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS_Lite

Ummm also - I don't know if this was on the original DS, but both the Nintendo Wii and the DS Lite will be featuring the Opera web browser.

http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2006/05/10/

ZAKtheGeek

06-11-2006, 07:19 PM

No reason why there wouldn't be a browser for both. There's no significant difference; it's like the GBA and GBA SP. It's all convenience, no real change.

Iyeru

06-11-2006, 09:15 PM

I STILL liked the "Reveolution" Name better than the wii (Whee!)

-_-

Mirai Gen

06-18-2006, 10:26 AM

Bells

06-18-2006, 01:17 PM

Interview with the head hanchoes of the Wii, including Miyamoto (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3151423&did=1)

I love how he mentions lightsabers, and if you're using one with the Wii, the built-in speakers will make "Vrrm! Vrrrm!" noises. Sold.

Heck.. i would buy a Wii just for a "Lighsaber Tech Demo" myself!

Just imagine you and 4 Friends Swing your wii mote going "Vrooooummm Vrmmm" in a raging war againsT Storm Troopers...

Totally sold

Bamboozehound

06-18-2006, 05:09 PM

Now we only need some sort of enhanced VirtualBoy device and you could actually be a Jedi. Hm.

[ray.z]

06-19-2006, 07:10 AM

Man who hasnt seen a Star Wars movie and not gone out of it swinging around your arms like you're weilding a lightsabre. Heck, I even do it after playing Lego Star Wars :p.

Just imagine you and 4 Friends Swing your wii mote going "Vrooooummm Vrmmm" in a raging war againsT Storm Troopers...
I see ... patches on eyes :yarr:.

Cept my friends will be in pain. Hahahaha.

Now a Starwars game on Wii wouldn't be disimilar to Red Steel - so of course it would be awesome.

Now we only need some sort of enhanced VirtualBoy device and you could actually be a Jedi. Hm.
Well considering Nintendo's taken a leap of faith with the Wiimote I think they .... wouldn't risk bringing that shocker out again.

But that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be cool.

Bells

06-19-2006, 04:02 PM

What? a small Helmet-like visor witha LCD Screen in it... then... Add a Gyro system (or even Tilt controls) to it, so it moves with your head...

DONE! the most amazing FPS interface ever made... avaliable on the wii...

Lets hope Nintendo is smart enough for it

greed

06-25-2006, 02:32 AM

That would be awesome, hell something small that you could balance behind you ear or clip onto headphones that just kept track of your head's movements would be okay.

In other Wii news, leaked Pokemon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgraCePaHGk) footage.

Mirai Gen

06-25-2006, 02:40 AM

In other Wii news, leaked Pokemon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgraCePaHGk) footage.
Wow. I haven't had such a geek-gasm since the open floor demo of Spore.

greed

06-25-2006, 03:01 AM

The fact that, they're actually belting into each other when they use TACKLE is what's got me happy, can't wait to see them pull of the more violent and spectacular moves.

Skull Bash, Overheat, Guillotine, Submission, Cross Kick and Seismic Toss come to mind.

[ray.z]

06-25-2006, 03:30 AM

Well I saw that video a while ago, and even if it was leaked, it doesn't seem like anything new anyway.

All I can get from it is

It has the characters Red and Green (from FR/LG).
Water pokemon are now flying types (or maybe psychic).

Anyways the game is called Pokemon Battle Revolution, and IGN.com doesn't offer much (http://wii.ign.com/objects/818/818481.html).

Hopefully, they will put something new into it to differ it from previous pokemon console games.

Hahaha Guillotine would be crazy (if it hits).

Azisien

06-27-2006, 12:53 AM

Interview with the head hanchoes of the Wii, including Miyamoto (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3151423&did=1)

I love how he mentions lightsabers, and if you're using one with the Wii, the built-in speakers will make "Vrrm! Vrrrm!" noises. Sold.

*slowly turning into a Wii supporter*

Lightsabers are my weakness. I played Jedi Knight II with the Merc Mod for like six months SOLID, almost every minute of my free time near a computer. SO MUCH FUN.

Vrm, vrm!

ZERO.

06-27-2006, 01:59 AM

I would like to know two things about the ps3 and the Xbox 360

1) What is this law suit I have been hearing about with the ps3?
I was listening to a 1up.com podcast, I herd lawsuit and Sony in the same sentence.

2) I would like to know what Ubisoft was smoking when they charged 15 dollars for a fucking retarded update for G.R.A.W!?

You can tell right off that the update was not enough for a retail pack so they thought "hey lets fuck over some people in an experiment to see what people can stomach."

My own personal thoughts on the anwser for number two is the hearts of little babies and some greed.

Mirai Gen

06-27-2006, 02:01 AM

Vrm, vrm!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2002/20020313l.gif

On the subject, does anyone know what type of format the Wii will use for it's drives? Is it DVD, or are they going the path of 360/PS3 and doing a Blu-Ray and HD-DVD route?

ZERO.

06-27-2006, 02:51 AM

the Wii will house a proprietary disc drive that supports a 12 centimeter DVD style discs as well as the current GameCube disc format.

I really dont think that they are going with anything new when it comes to their disks.

I could be wrong so correct me if the unthinkable happens.

greed

06-27-2006, 03:06 AM

ZERO

1. The lawsuit you're referring to is probably about the Dual Shock, the PS3 doesn't have one. You see the PS1, PS2 Dual shocks and the XBOX control's rumble features were all patent violations of a rumble system made by a third party company for computer controls (Nintendo was okay because they have their own proprietry system), and this company sued Sony and Microsoft.
They beat Sony and settled with Microsoft. Microsoft then bought the company, making it impossible for Sony to settle because then their controllers would have royalties going to Microsoft. So Sony has been engaged in a string of appeals ever since.

And that's why the Wii and the 360 have rumble and the PS3 doesn't.
Not because of the last minute tilt function, because as the Wii proves, you can have much more advanced motionsensing features and a rumble in the same controller.

2. The same thing the makers of most 360 ports are, "profiteering incarnate".

[ray.z]

06-27-2006, 03:46 AM

Yeh the Wii is using standard DVD's.

But that makes me wonder - what type of piracy protection has Nintendo set up for the Wii, as well as Sony and Microsoft for their respective consoles.

Cause if the Wii uses standard DVD's, it'll be heaps easier to copy than the dual-layer and blu-ray discs the XBOX 360 and PS3 will be using respectively. But even so, it won't be long till it's easy enough to be done for all three consoles.

spazzhands

06-27-2006, 04:15 AM

']Yeh the Wii is using standard DVD's.

But that makes me wonder - what type of piracy protection has Nintendo set up for the Wii, as well as Sony and Microsoft for their respective consoles.

Cause if the Wii uses standard DVD's, it'll be heaps easier to copy than the dual-layer and blu-ray discs the XBOX 360 and PS3 will be using respectively. But even so, it won't be long till it's easy enough to be done for all three consoles.

I heard that Nintendo made Gamecube so much harder to pirate by having the discs run backwards, and having the tracks move outwards rather than inwards (or inwards rather than outwards, whichever's the wierd one).

This means that its incredibly difficult to find a disc drive that would be able to make Gamecube games. Nintendo would probably do the same thing for Wii.

MuMu

06-27-2006, 10:25 AM

Outward. Normal CDs and DvDs are burned from the inside, to the outside. You can see this in the CD if you use the correct angle with some light.

That would explain why I never saw a pirated gamecube game where I live...XBOX and PS2 there were lots but never saw a GC...Damn if they continue doing that I won't be able to buy a Wii >_>

greed

06-27-2006, 10:32 AM

Hopefully not, they're trying to keep costs down, using standard DVDs would definitely do this, so by their current marketing plan it shouldn't be a worry Zicquall.

Bells

06-27-2006, 03:04 PM

Only recently there were GC Piracy going on...

I actually hope that its harder to copy all of the next Gen games... so that the companies will start to find ways to lower the game prices... making then affordable everywhere

Fifthfiend

06-27-2006, 03:55 PM

I actually hope that its harder to copy all of the next Gen games... so that the companies will start to find ways to lower the game prices... making then affordable everywhere

Oh man, I can't decide which part of that to laugh at first.

Bells

06-27-2006, 04:21 PM

Oh man, I can't decide which part of that to laugh at first.

Oh let me dream why dont'ya :shifty:

Over here its rare (REALLY RARE) to see a original game... 80 to 90% of all games came from piracy... but thats just because over here a original game can gost from 80 to 240 bucks...
If you are not in Japan, EUA or England, thats a reality, games cost much more or much much more

MuMu

06-27-2006, 06:47 PM

And this will make they lower the price, how exactly? The prices are like this because there are no factorys here, everything is imported.

BUT I heard the 360 or some other was mounting a factory here so...Joy.

ZAKtheGeek

06-27-2006, 06:56 PM

Theoretically, pirating causes game prices to be jacked up in order to make up for lost sales.

Bells

06-27-2006, 11:07 PM

Also... if there is no piracy, there will be more demand for factories and investiment to produce games on other countries...

Por example... Microsoft is putting the Live system for their X-Box in Brasil soon. So that people can pay a more fair price AND with their own currency... also, Tech Support on Portuguese... by doing so, Microsoft just took over a large chunck of a entire Continent, and a Country full of gamers wishing that a company did just that...

So Really... its just a smart bet... if Sony decides to make games on a country like that, more people would by a PS3 and original games.... because its just better then waiting for the long time of arrival and higher cost of the product of Other companies

Fifthfiend

06-27-2006, 11:26 PM

Theoretically, pirating causes game prices to be jacked up in order to make up for lost sales.

Yeah, that's one of the parts I was laughing at.

I mean honestly, if your 'theoretically' doesn't hold up under the withering scrutiny of anybody who managed to stay half-awake through econ 1, can you even call it 'theoretically'?

ZAKtheGeek

06-28-2006, 12:26 AM

Oh, you know how vaguely people toss around that term.

Bells

06-28-2006, 12:43 AM

So.... The PS3 got Shinier!

More power to HDMI !

Data transfer specs also got a major boost, with bandwidth increased from 4.95Gbps (gigabytes-per-second) to 10.2Gbps, and signal clock speed is bumped from 165MHz to 340MHz. The extra bandwidth the 1.3 update provides is necessary for the other interesting features that are rolling out. HDMI 1.2 could only support 24-bit color, whereas 1.3 will expand to 30-, 36-, and 48-Bit color. While most current-generation HDTVs do not have the capacity to display such an expanded color pallet, the recent advances in LCD technology announced by eCinema and AOU will bring such capabilities to market as early as Q4 2006. The highly anticipated SED technology from Toshiba and Canon will also be able to make use of the upgraded color pallet. When fully implemented, 36- and 48-Bit color LCD, SED, and other flat panel displays will finally rival the picture quality of CRTs and mark the final ascendancy of flat panels as the reference-grade technology in HD.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/715/715311p1.html

It looks like that Sony is making a Hardware that makes games look good with less effort of the game producer team to do so... this could be interesting

Specially since it dosent make the price go up!

[ray.z]

06-28-2006, 01:27 AM

While most current-generation HDTVs do not have the capacity to display such an expanded color pallet, the recent advances in LCD technology announced by eCinema and AOU will bring such capabilities to market as early as Q4 2006.
Wait so [almost] everyone who does have a HDTV currently will have to purchase a new one to gain access to the full power that the PS3 yields?

And since this is new technology, won't that mean that it'll be more expensive?

:shifty:

HDMI is superior to component (green, blue, red) connections in that it is digital, rather than analog, and it's better than DVI because it can also carry audio information. It's also critical to HDCP "protected-pathway" next-gen copy-protection.
Does that have something to do with better piracy protection?

It looks like that Sony is making a Hardware that makes games look good with less effort of the game producer team to do so... this could be interesting
Assuming game developers choose to take advantage of 36- and 48-Bit color, the ability to output such a broader color spectrum could give the PS3 a solid technologic advantage over the Xbox 360, which will not be able to transmit such signals over component cables.
Assuming. Assuming.

HDMI 1.3 also supports what the standard founders are calling "lip sync support," a feature that automatically synchronizes audio and video tracks. The new algorithm is said to be markedly improved over previous versions of the technology, and will hopefully spell the end of kung fu-movie style flapping lips.
Hahahahaha. Remember Kung Pow?

Bells

06-28-2006, 03:06 AM

greed

06-28-2006, 03:19 AM

2-5 years

From what I've heard about the uptake, it's more at the 5 year end, so next console generation Yuus, PS4s and X720s?

Mirai Gen

06-28-2006, 03:26 AM

As far as i can tell you, if you put a Wii (comparing it to a Crispier Gamecube) and a PS3 on a normal, good quality, Tv Set, They will look great and similar (COnsidering the same game with the same detail level)

BUT if you put both on a Fucking Huge "42' Plasma-Wide-Screen-Digital-Cappucino-maker" TV set The PS3 Game will Look Better, Shinier and Clean, as the Wii game Would not

I Guess that this applies to XBOX 360 too...

So, if you like playing games with the graphical level of Resident Evil 4 or GRAW, the PS3 wil give you that on ANY Tv Set...

But if what you want is a "Playable CG" kinda Look, in a Huge HD Tv, THEN you need top dollar for the PS3 and The HD Tv set...

Wich... im imagining, could start being "common place" (In price and distribution) in about 2-5 years
You know, if this 'common place' HD-TV Digital Plasma Screen thing happens, go ahead and call me.

I'll be in the corner playing with my Wii.

On a serious note, this is just making me shake my head at Sony again. Guilty Gear's 2d rendered sprites continue to be perfectly awesome for the game, and I'm more than willing to sit and enjoy the ride of "Slow advancement of technology" rather than "CATCH UP AND GET YOUR HD-TV!"

[ray.z]

06-28-2006, 03:50 AM

Ain't it weird (and probably stupid) that Sony is announcing support for this new type of HDTV, yet they are fully aware that HDTV isn't common place in the market yet?

Bells

06-28-2006, 11:46 AM

I Trully belive that you guys didnt quite catch on with sony's idea...

They are in for the long run...

Differently from what happened with other console transitions like N64 to Gamecube to Wii, PS2 to PS3 and so on... sony acts like they are building a machine that will last, and WONT be outdated for quite a long time...

There was even talks about tha possibilities of the PS3 receiving Updates and upgrades durings its life time, so it could keep enhancing itself without the need to build or sell a new console!!

the PS3 carries on the very same powerfull display power that the other 2... the difference that as the technology advances (Slowly or quicly) the Ps3 should be already prepare to receive that technology without errors or losses... something that XBOX 360 and Wii arent build for...

So that point of view actually has its value... especially since we know that this isnt the main reason of the Console's price (Which is mostly due to Bluray and Hard Drive support) ...

Sure, i couldnt care less about Digital sound and video, since i dont own a Plasma or HDTV nor a home theater... but that point of view where a console seens to be build so another one WONT need to be created for quite sometime, its actually something that pleases me

ZAKtheGeek

06-28-2006, 11:50 AM

Personally, I don't even want the full offering of PS3 now. I can't imagine why I'd want it in the future.

Okay, that's not entirely true. If I ended up paying a trivial extra amount, I'd probably go for it. But at that point it would most likely be available from someone other than sony, so it still doesn't really play to their advantage.

MuMu

06-28-2006, 11:57 AM

Yeah, Sony wants it's console to last more than the last(I think PS2 was 5 years...) but, that comes with a price. A 600 dollars price. That many can't pay. And even if they can, they may choose for another thing, like upgrading a computer or buying a Wii instead, after all all they want is to play a videogame and have fun.

If you think, this console thing is like a F1 Racer game for the n64, you could choose if you wanted your Gas Tank Full, to last more but your car would be slower(PS3) or let it half or less full, faster but it would have to refill faster(W

Bells

06-28-2006, 12:27 PM

Sure, thats true... whats boosting Sony on the "good side of all things" is that every feature --even though may not be a fully desired one-- is a GOOD feature on the PS3... the Free Online gaming idea is great (Just hope that it works outside of the US/Japan Axis), the Old games library is Great, and all the franchises AND new games looks terrific... so, even if we start talking just about software, sony has a fair fight, or even a Edge here and there...

Its just comes down to the price, and those who will pay it... and as many said, if they buy it, they'll buy it later... when more games show themselves and maybe the price drops... but that is what sony was expecting anyway, so we end it up back to the start...

Mirai Gen

06-28-2006, 02:08 PM

My problem is with the same thing as the Xbox 360 - They decided that they would sucker in anyone with a ludicrously huge price and then slowly, through price reductions, get the rest of them.

And, shit, they made their claim with PSX and PS2 - they have one hell of an awesome list of third-party developers that are ready to kick ass. I just can't believe they are so willing to stretch a 600$ price tag just to avoid being 'left behind'. I mean, jeeze, we don't need that apeshit huge graphics card. It's a complete waste to act like we do.

Bamboozehound

06-28-2006, 02:21 PM

Bells

06-28-2006, 02:33 PM

Plus, in "2-5" years won't it be time to release another console? :/ By then won't this expensive technology be cheap enough for even Nintendo to produce? I've figured it up, and I expect that if you want to get a PS3 at the launch you'll have to have nearly a $1,000 US if you want something besides the console itself. And when you go to the store to get your console, they'll all be sitting side by side. What will you want: the easily affordable and amazing Wii, or a giant money funnel?

Thats precisly the problem... 2-5 years is not the time to release another one... these consoles should have a longer lifetime, to expand and set in... 2-5 years is the time a console takes just to start reaching its peak... Sony already said they are going for a more PC-like experience... every 5 years you Buy a completly new Pc?

Sure... thats not a very good analogy, and yes, the PS3 can still suck horribly... but i belive that its worthy of its price... but what will for sure assure this or deny this, is TGS in setember

Bamboozehound

06-28-2006, 02:36 PM

PC's become outdated in a matter of months.

And it's Sony who forces the launch of their consoles every 5 years. Actually, Nintendo prefers to leave their console alive for as long as possible.

EDIT: my pc is pretty nice for a factory model, 250gig hdd, 2ghz clockspeed, +500RAM, and it cost less than the PS3.

ZAKtheGeek

06-28-2006, 02:45 PM

At this point I agree that PS3 is worth what you pay... The question is, do you actually need what they're selling you? It's really just like the PSP... they pack in feature after feature to drive the price up, and while it's efficient, no one actually needs all that.

Sony says the PS3 is meant to act as a PC replacement. Do you need to replace your PC?

Bells

06-28-2006, 05:53 PM

Its not about what you need.... nobody needs to Play Oblivion, F.E.A.R. or GRAW using 100% of its graphical, Anti-Aliasing and Effects power...

and Yet... people buy RAM and video cards just for that...

The PS3 may just take over the PC as a Gaming computer... that does just that... play games... the Music and Movies, well, that really is Bonus... i doubt that the PS3 would have a lower price if it could play Bluray games, but not Bluray movies...

If you are a occasional gamer, the wii have everything you want... if you are a Hardcore gamer, who wants the High tech virtual experience that XBOX 360 and PS3 can give you, then you will have the console that its worthy of its price...

Steel Shadow

06-28-2006, 05:55 PM

Yeah, but everyone already has a pc. Shelling out all that money for something that you can already do is... well, insane?

MuMu

06-28-2006, 06:10 PM

Not everyone has a pc, much less a pc with the power of the ps3.

Bells

06-28-2006, 06:40 PM

AND with $600 most pc's CANT be upgraded to the level of the PS3

ZAKtheGeek

06-28-2006, 06:44 PM

Not everyone has a pc, much less a pc with the power of the ps3.
But most people do. And let's not forget that some people shy away from console-looking devices entire, creating a smaller market than simply "people that could use a strong (by today's standards) computer."

Bells

06-28-2006, 07:05 PM

But most people do. And let's not forget that some people shy away from console-looking devices entire, creating a smaller market than simply "people that could use a strong (by today's standards) computer."

Lets not go on the "A pc as powrfull as the PS3 is easy and cheap to get" Because it has already been proved that it cant be done that way

Sithdarth

06-28-2006, 07:48 PM

Lets not go on the "A pc as powrfull as the PS3 is easy and cheap to get" Because it has already been proved that it cant be done that way

Actually it hasn't I threw up a list of parts and then a bunch of people said "No way the PS3's cell processor is to leet to be beaten" and I just sort of dropped it there. Plus I'd wager a few important body parts we'll see cheaper and more powerful cell processors in computers at about the time the PS3 comes out. It generally never pays to be an early adopter.

ZAKtheGeek

06-28-2006, 08:20 PM

Lets not go on the "A pc as powrfull as the PS3 is easy and cheap to get" Because it has already been proved that it cant be done that way
That's not at all what I'm saying; are you sure you read properly?

Bells

06-28-2006, 09:15 PM

Zak, in that case, sorry but it was writen like so :

"Not everyone has a pc, much less a pc with the power of the ps3. "

"But most people do."

So, it gave the impression...

Also... on the comparisson of PC X PS3... C'mon... the cell processor has 8 Cores, Its L2 cache is Huge, Its memory is Huge! The Video Card is better than the most powerfull ones avaliable today... in a really Technical display the PS3 is more powerfull then ANY Gamming PC out there today... specially any PC that can be Bought with just $600

It Takes a Great Machine to run games Like GRAW and Oblivion at full, and Games like FInal Fantasy XIII and Assassins Creed already have displayed that the PS3 can go Beyond That...

ZAKtheGeek

06-28-2006, 09:32 PM

Zak, in that case, sorry but it was writen like so :

"Not everyone has a pc, much less a pc with the power of the ps3. "

"But most people do."

So, it gave the impression...
Yeah, I was responding more to the "not everyone has a pc" part. In any case, how the people that DO have a powerful comp got it is irrelevant; the point is, they have it, and thus have little use for a PS3.

C'mon... the cell processor has 8 Cores,
Actually, only 7 of those cores will ever do anything. There are eight in case one of them is defective. Isn't that great? Sony makes you buy an insurance policy.

Also, one of those cores is supposed to be just for OS functionality.

Bells

06-28-2006, 09:41 PM

Actually, only 7 of those cores will ever do anything. There are eight in case one of them is defective. Isn't that great? Sony makes you buy an insurance policy.

Also, one of those cores is supposed to be just for OS functionality.

The Linux based system and the capability of Homebrew development is a concept that earns a core for it self... and about the extra one... i sure as hell would by that Insurance if im expending 600 on a gaming console... no "red lights of Death" for me! It sure is good to know that if there is a problem i dont have to toss in the garbage the entire console at least...

and still... 6 Cores Left... none of then clocked below 2.6 ( i Think it was 3.5 ) , is not Small Potatoes

ZAKtheGeek

06-28-2006, 10:01 PM

No doubt. It would be pretty foolish to deny that PS3 has a lot of processing power. I'm just saying that the basic information is a bit misleading.

This also means that even if they ship defective units they'll stil have no problems, and the customers will be the ones to have paid for it being that way.

Sithdarth

06-28-2006, 10:02 PM

Also... on the comparisson of PC X PS3... C'mon... the cell processor has 8 Cores, Its L2 cache is Huge, Its memory is Huge! The Video Card is better than the most powerfull ones avaliable today... in a really Technical display the PS3 is more powerfull then ANY Gamming PC out there today... specially any PC that can be Bought with just $600

Yeah that's wonderful there is just one problem just throwing more processors together doesn't really help all that much. About the only thing it does is allow your computer to pat its head and rub its stomach better. All I can say to that is woo. Not to mention it gets exponetially harder to do more and more complex graphics. So that apparently giant power jump results in marginally better performace, again woo.

Now add to that how I already mentioned Sony will not have a monoply on cell processor and you start to see how this isn't a safe bet. I'd be very surprised not to see a cheaper more powerful version in a PC at about the same time the PS3 comes out. At the very least we'll see one in a max of about two months. So really I could buy a PS3 when it comes out and waste $600 worth of hardware the core of which can't be upgraded, Sony would be pounding home that selling point if you could replace the GPU or CPU. Or I can wait at max a few months and buy something that will probably be as powerful and maybe cheaper that I can upgrade later without having to buy the parts I don't want to upgrade again. Until you can buy bits and pieces of a console and put together the system you want they will never completely replace the PC.

ZERO.

06-28-2006, 10:29 PM

The PS3 Cell processor sort of makes it hard to program the game it's not that user friendly to be honest.

[ray.z]

06-29-2006, 12:26 AM

... no "red lights of Death" for me!
Sony [and Microsoft] have a history of faulty consoles, that is undeniable. That's why Sony makes you pay for extra cores - cause they know that there is a good chance that it will stuff up.

The PS3 may just take over the PC as a Gaming computer... that does just that... play games... the Music and Movies, well, that really is Bonus... i doubt that the PS3 would have a lower price if it could play Bluray games, but not Bluray movies...

If you are a occasional gamer, the wii have everything you want... if you are a Hardcore gamer, who wants the High tech virtual experience that XBOX 360 and PS3 can give you, then you will have the console that its worthy of its price...
Okay everyone can admit that Sony has a good console on there hands - but to say that it will take over the PC as a gaming computer as well as in movies and music is wrong.

People [generally] don't set up their PC's in the middle of the living room.

Plus, what about all them MMORPG's like WoW and so on. Ones that require active communication among players and participants? To think that one will be able to replace communication on these games with a keyboard and/or headset is also unreaonable.

Also, if there were bluray players available to the general market, then of course the PS3 would be cheaper. But not that much so due to the amount of extra's they put in - like an entire chipset of a PS2.

Contrary to previous reports that PlayStation 2 emulation would be accomplished through software, the July issue of Japanese magazine Ultra One reports that the current design of PlayStation 3 includes the core PS2 chipset.
Also @ ign.com (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/711/711242p1.html)

It appears to be that unlike XBOX 360, PS2 games will remain relativly the same when running on PS3.

P.S. And don't say that no one really cares about backwards compatability, cause all the consoles have it included.

Bamboozehound

06-29-2006, 12:52 AM

Well, Sony is not marketing their system to everyone. It's more of a rich college student's toy. So I guess if you have tuition money or an income tax to burn, it's all good.

And I'd like to get a PS3. All the crap they're talking about sounds cool, if it works out. But I already know the Wii will content me for a long time (as a child I watched Bob Ross paint many things on my TV. Soon, I will be painting with him!) so I'm fine waiting for the price to drop and decent games to be released. The thing is, I'm sure everyone who doesn't burn money is thinking the same thing. It's looking like Sony will have a lauch similar to the Xbox360 in Japan, but worldwide. And the price will fall fast, and Sony will lose billions, and be a laughing stock for the rest of the generation :/ mark my words!

Mirai Gen

06-29-2006, 02:20 AM

Well, Sony is not marketing their system to everyone. It's more of a rich college student's toy. So I guess if you have tuition money or an income tax to burn, it's all good.
...But my problem with is that, well, it's the PlayStation. They have exclusive lisencing and they know we need it to play their game.

It's just frustrating that Sony's newest console hinges upon forcing people to buy alot of stuff they don't need for a few games they want to play.

Bells

06-29-2006, 02:25 AM

First let me say this... it just can not be denied that Nintendo leads 100% on the quality of their hardware... basicly, it will only break if you trully screw it up by yoruself... sony does take the second place on quality of their hardware, but, as pretty much all the other companies fits together on 3rd in this category... it seens fair to say that 2nd place is nothing to brag about...

I for one had concern about the Wiimote, if it is resistent and if it will endure gamming... but Nintendo has enough proof and story to put any mind at ease on that subject for now...

Also, its all so clear that it dosent take amazing graphical power, disc space and Hardware power to make great games ( Point -> Spore )

But i do belive that this huge "Gold-costing" powerhouse that sony claims that the PS3 will be is more than just flashy graphics... hell... the XBOX 360 is more than just graphics... and tis the direct competitor from sony now...

In this Thread, you guys can see, the common place about a purchase of the PS3 it just walks together with what sony claimed... it will be a slow start, but as the PS3 show its power and its library grows, more people should be drawn to it... its not a sure thing, but it seens like the main census on it...

Also, not so long Ago IGN hosted a article talking about tha probablity of the PS3 receiving Upgrades of hardware... so, its not a closed door... the PS3 could be upgradable by more then just its HD, and the HDMI upgrade just shows that nothing is set on stone yet...

I still waits for TGS... playable demos for the PS3, better demos for the wii, more FPS's for the XBOX 360... probably sony is runing after a way to put rumble back in there... E3 was a news fest, TGS is going to show for real what is what

Bamboozehound

06-29-2006, 03:29 AM

So, what you're saying is that Sony is finally catching onto the idea of upgrading a single console, which is what Nintendo could have done with the N64 and Game Cube? Even in that, they are only following their rival which is a worrisome tactic.

Sony is still unfairly putting most of the burden on the consumer without giving them much of a choice about it. That's just bad buisness.

Mirai Gen

06-29-2006, 04:14 AM

Actually, it's fucking terrific buisness, because they set the standard with the PS1 and PS2's outstanding games-lineup - Capcom, Konami, and Rockstar's, just to name a few (But that changes with the 360, apparently).

The fact that they are manipulating their consumers by pushing a 600$ price tag on a machine we don't really want is just frustrating. I have a computer - I don't need a game console to do everything my computer already does.

Don't get me wrong. I love what the PS3 can do, and I think it'd be a wonderful console - But there's something pissing me off about the strappingly powerful graphics card and stats that really don't need to be there for DMC4 and MGS4, the next Castlevania title, and the like.

It's a very respectable machine, but I can't see myself spending 600$ on it, because I won't use a third of it's functions. I'd infinitely prefer if their "core" console - which has gone unnoticed due to it's blatant stupidity - removed half of the apeshit bells and whistles and was just a, well, "core" machine.

spazzhands

06-29-2006, 04:35 AM

But i do belive that this huge "Gold-costing" powerhouse that sony claims that the PS3 will be is more than just flashy graphics... hell... the XBOX 360 is more than just graphics... and tis the direct competitor from sony now...

But it will be all graphics though wont it! Sure, you can make incredible AI, unusual maps and expansive, epic storylines. But they will usually be considered less important to having flashy graphics. Why? Because it needs to remain competitive. If Someone came up with the idea of the century, and he makes the worlds greatest game, even though it has below average graphics... It will not sell. Most game purchases are judged by the box-art, and even then, I know people who judge games by their graphics.

There may be no regulations forcing you to make sure you have stupidly expensive graphics, but market forces as they stand will definately ensure that PS3 is ALL about graphics.

If someone came up with the new Katamari damacy, he would probably take it to Wii. They are cheaper to develop for and they encourage change and innovation (which means that the audience is more likely to accept the game).

I want to play good games, and that comes primarily through innovation. Just making the hardware more powerfull, while it may allow you to innovate, wont encourage it, for fear of losing sales. And failure will now carry a much higher price tag!

[ray.z]

06-29-2006, 05:36 AM

It's been said before that Sony's main focus is graphics anyway - not innovation.

The sad thing is that the general consumer actually cares only about this. I guess they ain't as fussy as we are.

Bells

06-29-2006, 11:56 AM

holy crap i just noticed that Bamboozehound and Mirai Gen, aparently are from the same power rangers team.......

but i digress... miles...

It seens a tad extrme to say that Sony only care about graphics... and the consumers only care about graphics...

Even so... if the consumers only care about graphics, then sony is right in only care about graphics... giving the best of what most consumers really want... there is nothing really dreadfull about that...

Except that i really dont think its true... nowadays where games can be so much more than just graphics, people really want that "more"... immersive gameplay... fun system, engaging story, new elements....

For me is quite pleasing to see in one side a Console that can reach the potencial of "playable CG's", and giving it the credit of having 100Gb Discs... just imagine what a game like GTA can take from that...

On the other hand, its amazing to have a console that, as one of its features, is just right of the box being the best console for FPS's ever (The Wii)

Maybe sony cares too much about graphics (They just might be following the steps of microsoft... releasing a advanced console, so when the rivals release theirs, it is already settle in the market... its the Dreamcast idea done right...) but sony dosent make all the games... and with all that power in hand, i really dont think that most companies will try to sell games that its just flashy graphics in a flashy graphics console

Buddha Fett

06-29-2006, 01:24 PM

I'm still on the fence about the whole PS3 issue. But, I'm fairly certain that this whole next console war won't have a pretty ending.

Mirai Gen

06-29-2006, 03:12 PM

holy crap i just noticed that Bamboozehound and Mirai Gen, aparently are from the same power rangers team.......
Actually B and I are fans of the Protomen, if you would have read correctly.

It seens a tad extrme to say that Sony only care about graphics...

They're not stupid. They've had three succesful game platforms and they know what they're doing.

My problem is that they are pointedly and purposefully fucking over the casual gamer who doesn't want to homebrew. They are relying on the common man getting screwed - Get the console, or no games for you!

ZAKtheGeek

06-29-2006, 04:03 PM

I'm not entirely convinced sony "knows what it's doing," considering how many features of its consoles were mere copies of its competition. This is why I don't want sony to win these wars... I genuinely fear a market where sony has no one to mimic.

MuMu

06-29-2006, 04:17 PM

Bells

06-29-2006, 04:49 PM

Well see, Sony's consoles weren't bad, but people always riled up about them having "bad" graphics. First the Playstation that had 32 and the N64 with...64 =P.

Then it comes with the PS2 and GCube, hell youm guys should see the fuss people did about the PS2 RE4 having less detailed textures, less trees or less enemies in the screen.

So, they are just doing what the costumers said, powering it up. Yep, and they exaggerated by a lot. A LOT!

Dramatization:

Nintendo: On our resident evil 4, we can display on the game cube over 20 enemies and 30 Fully animated trees at the same time on screen!

Sony: And on our version of Resident Evil 4, we can display around 15 enemies and over 25 fully animated trees at the same time, plus, it has exclusiv content... Life is great!

Nintendo: Sure is!

*Nintendo and Sony Hug*

Nintendo Fan: OMG11!1! U'Guyz are sooo l4m3!! Gamecube's V3rSiOn is waaay coler! Sony SuXXxooorrzz !!11!!

*Nintendo takes a giant step back*

Sony: B-but... we have Ada! and a new mode! and a new gun!!

Nintendo Fan: SoNy Is Teh SuXUUuuxOoor!! u guys Suck huge monky flamming balls!! Game Cube's verion si Wa yy more R!eAlistik and Cool! It has More Lens Flares and Trees!!

Sony: Real!? You play as a Cop shooting freakin Zombies!! What the.... *sob* you know what!? FINE!! next time we will give you a buttload of trees! We're gonna shove a amazonian forest in your face! How do you than apples now Bitch !?

*Sony runs away crying*

*Nintendo and nintendo fan exchange looks*

Nintendo: So... wanna play with my Wii?

Nintendo Fan: Leet!

And so begins the Next Gen Console Wars...