Fullmetal Talk [spoilers!]

[Massacre]

I'm just a bit curious about Fullmetal Alchemist... Just one thing...


This topic spoils. Beware of that.

































Does anyone else think that the black gate formed by human transmutational alchemy is Yog-Sothoth? It might make sense if all this happened because of the abilities of a Great Old One.

[Aerozord]

you should put up a spoiler warning for this thread. For the record human transmutation doesn't open the gate, trying to bring a soul back does. Gate is just there, its one of those etherial things that only physically appears when summoned (often by accident).

I wonder if the gate itself has a consiousness, or atleast a machine like one. You know it just automatically equalizes and balances things best it can. Or who knows, maybe its just the door to hell *shrugs* sure were enough POed souls stuck there. Assuming those were souls that tried to rip...well everyone appart that comes close enough

[greed]

Maybe should have Spoilers, yes.

This will be long and spoilerish

If I remember right, it is the link of energy between the two world's. The energy travelling through is the souls of the dead, these souls go through and form the energy needed for alchemy in Amestris. The reason Terra does not have alchemy is at some point in the dark ages(the 12th century when alchemists started appearing in Amestris and the religions began dying, the time of Hohenheim and Dante's birth) the flow of souls from one world to the other changed from even to many more souls flowing into Amestris giving it a great excess of energy, hence Alchemy. The reason for our Earth suddenly having a great many more deaths is unexplained as is why these two parellel dimensions exist in a binary state like this in the first place. My guess with the former is the geography may be different, not sure but I do not believe Xing is on the same continent as Amestris. No connection between Asia and Europe in the dark ages suggests maybe the Black Plague was contained in Xing. As for the latter?*shrugs*
As for my info, Hohenheim/Dante explain the energy thing I believe, CJ would probably know, the rest is conjecture formed from info strewn through the anime.
Those caught in between appear to be those that do not accept death, their refusal to accept the obvious represented by their childish forms. The other explanation is aborts and stillborns, those who either never got a chance to live or are balked reincarnates. Wrath fits either argument, he certainly is childish and wants to live, but he is a homunculous crewated out of a stillborn.
Those who seem to have accepted death(Ed) or have a strong purpose(Hohenheim, Envy) maintain human form at the gate.

Another question as this is a general discuss thread by the look of it, do you think any of the homunculi got souls? I think Greed and Wrath did myself, I'll post my arguments later, tired. But yeah discuss.

[Aerozord]

these posts will be pure spoilers

You dont pass through the gate if you accept death, Ed wasn't killed he was just thrown in, abit more thought was put into Hohenheim though. If you recall Ed's body was still in the gate at that point. Al's was always there. Whenever someone loses part of themselves in a human transmutation it is kept in the gate.

Wrath is a special case. He was a homunculis not only created using his remains, but also placed inside the gate. So really any arguement cannot be applied to him.

As for where geographically FMA takes place. I would say it isn't the same as our world. They have deserts to the East, yet evidence points to it being set in Europe or America. Things like english text, christianity, and the fact they called shogi "a game from the east". My knowledge of geography is abit limited in western europe though. But things just dont seem to gel

[Massacre]

I apologize for not stating the spoilness. It slipped my mind. Anyway, I've made a change to that. So....





Yeah, I realize what the gate is as far as the FMA characters are concerned. Thinking outside the box a bit, I wondered if there was a Lovecraftian reference built in. Think about it. Yog-Sothoth, the living portal in which the Old Ones may walk through, the outer-being of ultimate wisdom and unknowable wisdom. That this creature would serve as alchemy's gate is not impossible. I believe that if it were a gateway to hell as Izumi stated, you would just go to hell, and not World War I. War IS hell, but not literally. I prefer to focus on Edward's thought that the gate is knowledge at a hefty price. With access to the gate, you can unleach abomination or have any number of horrible things done to you, but it also grants knowledge and alchemy without a circle. I maintain that the gate is a gate and not hell-born, but the outer abomination.

As for the Homunculi...no. Not Greed and Wrath. They lived and died as false humans. Sad to say, but I see no way they could be human, unless you refer to the way in which Wrath died. No, I say the only one who became a real living being and not a fake...would have to be Envy. He became that urabolus snake and was fixed that shape on the other side. You can say that that's because there's no alchemy there, but remember that humunculi don't actually DO alchemy anyway. No, I think Envy solidified because the transition to the other world gave him a soul there, and that's probably the only homunculus who really did.

[Captain_Action]

I got the idea that those eyes in the gate were homunculi.

[Aerozord]

Envy solidified because there is no alchemy. I think a way a friend described it works best, homunculi can only do internal alchemy. They take the chemicals of their body and alter them.

Also you cant truely do alchemy without a circle. The reason they have to clap is because they must make their own bodies the circle.

As for the, knowledge for a price. One thing always got to me. spoile Scar's brother didn't lose anything after a failed human transmutation, except maybe his sanity but thats questionable. Point is Izumi, Ed, and Al lost parts (or all) of their bodies. I am assuming Dante and Honenhiem did, they just swapped into bodies that were whole. Yet Scar's brother lost nada end spoiler

[lymerion]

Scar's brother evidently lost his penis/sexual organs/something else in the area, because after his transmutation he had a very noticeable bloody spot below his waist.

[Aerozord]

Scar's brother evidently lost his penis/sexual organs/something else in the area, because after his transmutation he had a very noticeable bloody spot below his waist.
...aww dude I hope your wrong. Thats horrible, though I suppose what happened to Izumi would be the female equivalent

[Massacre]

No, he's right, and I know why.

The incurred failure of a transmutation that creates a homunculus steals from the body according to the nature of the Homunculus the gate brings out, which is influenced by the intent of the alchemy itself, usually.

We already understand Ed and Al, of course. Their half-assed attempt to bring back their mother took a toll from both of them for their dual involvement, bringing in Sloth for their sorry skills.

Izumi was a mother trying to bring back her child, hence the creation of Wrath took away her reproductive organs as price. Wrath was a child because there is nothing more feral and destructive than one with great power.

Lust's creation removed the sexual organs from Scar's brother because of his obsessive desire to bring back the woman he loved. This, in turn, makes a sexy woman into the tempter of all.

I'm not so sure about the rest of them, though. It's too vague on these points.

[Meister]

I'll just review the spoiler codes here since a lot of people still don't have the hang of it. Replace {} with [].

{COLOR=Black} is not to be used for spoilers as it still shows up for some.

{spoiler} - for normal, in-post spoiler text.
{COLOR=111111] - as above, alternatively
{COLOR=222222} - for spoiler text in quotations. Quote boxes are much brighter than the normal background. If you quote a spoiler, you have to edit the tags accordingly.

I'd appreciate if those who used wrong tags edited their posts, just so you guys know for the future.

[greed]

Spoilers for Great Justice.

Aerozord I meant the bit right at the end after getting stabbed by Envy, but really I prefer the idea of the things inside the gate being stillborns, hence why Wrath was able to join them, it's neat and tidy.

As for the homunculi, my arguments.

Wrath: He appeared, with Izumi after death, his physical body was destroyed, a normal homunculus is gone after that.

Greed: His name is Greed, and look at that speech I've got in my sig, he is greedy. He never seems to go on about not having a soul or being incomplete in the way the other more human homunculi do. Yet it would be in he is core nature to be obsessed by it if he didn't have it. Plus he is interested in the technique that was used to bond Al's soul to armour for his own use. Al's SOUL. Then of course there is how human he acts compared to the others. Those three things to me point toward him having a soul.

And in the manga I believe there is a remnant of the original Greed, a spirit of Greed, stuck in Ling Greed

Oh and does anyone know if the geography of the FMA world is the same as ours. And America doesn't even come up at all Aerozord, Amestris is meant to be an analogue of Germany, but bigger, stretching to the FMA equivalent of the Middle East.

[lymerion]

Oh and does anyone know if the geography of the FMA world is the same as ours.

Not sure if its a spoiler or not, so tagged it is:

The geography is different, but the regions are analogous, like you said.

[CelesJessa]

This the the most of the world that I have information for:
http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/3979/mappy5.th.jpg (http://img317.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mappy5.jpg)
It's not very useful as far as geography goes, but we can see exactly where the desert is and such.

I think the world is supposed to be at least a little similar to ours (the "great desert" being areas of Asia and such) As you can see, Ishbal isn't really that far into the great desert so Amestis doesn't really extend over that much area, so it's hard to judge exactly.

Unfortunately I can't say much about the gate, because I go by both the manga and the anime, and in the manga as far as I know there is no "real world" on the other side of the gate, so the theory about the gate is completely different.

But I'm going to guess it's not Yog-Sothoth because the FMA profiles/encyclopedia-type book I have goes into vast detail about the "real world" alchemy that inspired FMA (including the Sephiroth tree, the Kabbalah's Arcana, etc) And, as far as the manga goes, I think the Sephiroth tree has more to do with the gate than anything. (I may be wrong though). And I'm guessing the anime is going to at least share a little bit about how the gate works with the manga (although it does deviate quite a ways)

[Massacre]

That's very enlightening. It removes the forboding sense that alchemy is a doomed science in FMA ruled by abomination...or that it is as horrible and coveting as Dante would state in the penultimate episode.


Thank you for clearing that up, Celes.

[Serasid]

I can't wait for the movie to come out... Al looks almost as kickarse as Edward...

[Aerozord]

But I'm going to guess it's not Yog-Sothoth because the FMA profiles/encyclopedia-type book I have goes into vast detail about the "real world" alchemy that inspired FMA (including the Sephiroth tree, the Kabbalah's Arcana, etc) And, as far as the manga goes, I think the Sephiroth tree has more to do with the gate than anything. (I may be wrong though).
I can safely say it is based on sephiroth tree since it is plastered on the Gate.

But after reading vol 5, I think the great eastern desert wasn't always a desert. They made it sound like the desert was 'created' after the forging of a philosopher's stone.

[CelesJessa]

I can safely say it is based on sephiroth tree since it is plastered on the Gate.

Yeah I can safely say it for the manga, but I don't really know as far as the anime, since it's been changed quite a bit from the original manga.

Speaking of FMA talk, I've been listening to music by Vic Mignogna (voice of Ed) nonstop lately. He is a great singer. I think I'll buy his CD...

I can't wait for the movie to come out... Al looks almost as kickarse as Edward...
It is truely a great movie. I've already seen it, but I'm thrilled beyond words to get to buy it and watch it in english. (I love the english dub of FMA)

[Serasid]

I enjoy the music from L'arc~en~ciel (japanese), the singers of "Ready, Steady, Go", the opening theme song.

[Aerozord]

that reminds me, while I was working at the FMA booth someone told me something interesting. Apparently Ed is based on a musician named Heavy Metal Alchemist (or something like that).

[Serasid]

I haven't heard anything like that... and I don't think it makes sense... but that could be just me...

Does anyone know what happens with Roy and his quest to gain power? I missed the last few episodes so... I would appreciate it if someone would post/pm me bout it. Thanks!

also... I cut my arm off in order to get an automail replacement... it hurt but I did it anyway... only to find out that Automail doesn't exist...

What do I do? I mean... I duct taped it back on, and it seems to work... but for how long?

[Aerozord]

uh, yea automail does exist. Its just really really expensive.

[Magus]

Roy killed Pride (Fuhrer Bradley, who is really a homonculous), despite the fact that he realized he would never be accepted as the people's leader for killing him, as he was well-loved. But he knew it had to be done, and accepted it. If you want the movie spoiled for you, post again and I'll tell you, but I'll leave it at that.

[Matt V. 2.0]

Just wondering, but does anyone know what Pride's power actually was? I mean, other than that scene where he successfully managed to dodge every blow offered by that one guy who I've forgotten, he didn't seem to have a cool ability or anything other than the astounding one to wield a sword. Was it his eye, or something, or was he just really, really fast?

[Mesden]

Matt V. 2.0:

As it was, yes, his eye was his power and it coupled with the fact that he was easily the fastest homunculi. He could see what things were and what they would be, so to say. As in how he knew Marla was inside Al, how he could decipher where the path Mustang's fire was going to take.

Also, I'm absolutely positive I remember Dante saying he was a masterpiece because he had "The ability to age."

[Massacre]

This is true.

Dante had said this to Envy after the Ultimate Abomination basically whomped Pride one for making fun of him. Envy called Pride nthing more than a puppet and then Dante told him how hard it was to make a homunculus to age. And with this, I note that the Ultimate Eye that Fuhrer Bradley uses must not be perfect, for he only dodged some of Envy punches and not all of the walloping her got.

[Mesden]

This is true.

Dante had said this to Envy after the Ultimate Abomination basically whomped Pride one for making fun of him. Envy called Pride nthing more than a puppet and then Dante told him how hard it was to make a homunculus to age. And with this, I note that the Ultimate Eye that Fuhrer Bradley uses must not be perfect, for he only dodged some of Envy punches and not all of the walloping her got.

I chalk that up to Envy being a much older, much better fighter. And through logic the perfect eye isn't 'perfect'. See, he knows the outcome of the very next act instantly, or atleast what will happen if he doesn't stop it. So he stops it, but he's already committed to stopping that, which changes other events, which means he can be hit.

Kind of like how he attacked Mustang, Mustang got hit, but moved correctly enough to get some distance and 'phwoom' him. Then again, Pride says he "let him" do that, which I doubt, as Homunculi DO feel pain.

[Magus]

Pride is a lot cooler in the Manga (where he's called Wrath), since as well as foreseeing what's going to happen he carries four sabers and is super lightning fast using them to slice up Greed for about three issues. I don't know if he ever got around to that in the Anime at all, I forget, but it seemed like he didn't do anything until he sways out to stab that snake chick inside Al and Al notices he has the Ourobourous on his eye. I haven't watched the anime more than once, does he participate in killing all the Chimeras at the Devil's Den? If not they missed out on some awesomeness there.

[greed]

Magus if I remember correctly the chimeras fell to Lust, Sloth and Gluttony. In the anime Pride's only duties were to be the fuhrer and to serve as Dante's righthand. Other than that he didn't really do much.

MassacreAlso Envy as Mesden said is ancient and highly skilled in addition to being the strongest(remember the craters?) and probably the second fastest given the agility he displays(surpassed only by Pride) and may even remember an earlier Pride (I think some reference was made to one) so is probably very familiar with the Ultimate Eye's abilities and weaknesses.

[Majin Darshe]

I believe that the only reason Envy could SPOILER Hit Pride was because Pride HAD HIS EYEPATCH ON when Envy knocked him. He can't see into the future if it's blocked. Whenever we see him fight, he always has it off.END SPOILER