Knife of Dreams (Book 11 of the 10000000 Book Series)

[Magus]

All joking aside, I finally got around to reading Knife of Dreams and I was pleasanty surprised. It was enjoyable. It had a good plot. It actually had a little bit of adventure and a lot of action. It was good. I never thought I'd associate that with a WoT book again, but my faith has been (somewhat) renewed

Maybe it does and maybe it does not make up for the pits that were Winter's Heart and the abominable Crossroads of Twilight, but I have to say my interests in Robert Jordan's mega-series has been reignited and I eagerly await the 3000 page 12th novel A Memory of Light he claims will wrap up the main series of The Wheel of Time.

Anyway, anyone else's thoughts? I'm probably behind on the times, not reading it until now...

[Eltargrim]

My thoughts?

Give me some god-damned closure!

I've read them all! I even went and read the prequel material! Now just let it end!

*dissolves into a quivering mass*

[Fifthfiend]

Wasn't Wheel of Time supposed to be like ten books long? Those things are like a thousand words long, too.

I mean damn, how many hours of people's lives does this guy think he is entitled to?

[My Name's Not Warren]

Hey everybody it's goddamn Wandering Marblehead Whale Biologist Johnson Wombat McDumbass, and I can't goddamn take a hint.

[Fifthfiend]

le sigh.

[greed]

I think I heard a quote from Jordan somewhere that 12 is going to be the last book if it has to be thousands of pages long.

And yeah it is a marked improvement over the last half a dozen or so books. haven't read that in a while, might go through that series next.

[gurusloth]

I could see him wrapping it up in two more books. But just one more? I think it would feel really, really rushed by comparison. So, yeah. I'll read it for sure, though, either way.

Really, I just want Rand and his Hundred Companions (that being the 50 male and 50 female god-awful powerful channelers available from all sides, including Seanchan, Athan Miere, White Tower, Black Tower, etc.) to rediscover flying, then swoop through the blight leaving a wake of black ash twenty miles wide, land at the Pit of Doom, and, like, obliterate it with an orbital Balefire beam.

I dunno, something good like that.

[Magus]

It must be something epic along those lines, because from whatever interview I read that said he was going to get it done in Book 12 whether it takes 3000 pages, he's had the ending scenes since before he started in mind. So it better be freaking epic at this point.

My thoughts on this is that perhaps Rand will break the Wheel of Time himself by using balefire on the Dark One, to end the endless cycle of the Bore being opened and resealed. That'd be epic. So yeah, definitely an orbital balefire beam and crap. Something epic that will make reading the twelve books worth it! Especially for some of the people who've been reading them since 1991.

[Tiako]

Brian Jordan promised that there would only be one more book in this cycle, even if it takes him three years and 2,000 pages.

On the whole, I think he spend too much time in the first half dicking around, but he closed quite a few plots at the second half.

What I really look forward to is Jordan setting a new WoT series in a different cycle, maybe during the Trolloc Wars, or even better, during the Conquest of Seanchan.

However, I think that all in all, David Farland may have the superior book series with Runelords. The Runelords has one of the few truly original magic systems, while Jordan's system has been copied so many times (Perhaps most notably my that noteworthy hack Terry Goodkind) it is even getting a bit overdone from him. And The Runelords had four books in it and was done. Oh, and his characters didn't whine nearly as much.

I hope that eventually we can have a series that can truly rival Tolkien. I'm not holding y breath, by the way.

I'm still looking forward to the last book quite a bit (Maybe Egwene will die. Seriously, that would make my life she does). I like the characters enough that I even enjoyed Crossroads of Twilight, though I must say that when I finished I wondered if anything actually happened.

[Magus]

Nothing happened. Everyone wandered around almost aimlessly for 800 pages until Egwene got captured, much to our general amusement. Stupid Egwene.

This Runelords is very intriguing, it sounds pretty good, the magic is unique like you said, and it's getting a movie made based on the series so it must have some stuff going for it.

Back to WoT, it's getting a movie made for it too (supposedly), but I bet it'll be a b-movie fest of epic proportions, since it's been acquired by some Jordan conglomerate called Red Eagle Entertainment. No New Line Cinemas, these people. As for prequels, Jordan says he wants to write some, if he lives (he has blood amyloidosis, which is almost always a chronic illness, apparently), and the Conquest of Seanchan always interested me as much as a novel about The War of the Shadow's various exploits.

EDIT: Oh, and the generic monsters in Runelords are giant insects, and as a Starship Troopers fan and various other giant insect fantasy and science fiction fan, it makes me feel all warm and tingly on the inside.

ANOTHER EDIT: Oh, and why do all of these fantasy novels have such atrocious cover artwork? Is it a conspiracy? All of Jordan's are fairly terrible and this Runelords doesn't look much better...

[DavidG]

Apparently when he started the first book he thought he'd finish it in just four or five. Presumably he's thought of a few more things to put in since then.

Incidentally, am I the only person on the planet who doesn't hate Egwene for some unstated reason?

ANOTHER EDIT: Oh, and why do all of these fantasy novels have such atrocious cover artwork? Is it a conspiracy? All of Jordan's are fairly terrible and this Runelords doesn't look much better...We get pretty good covers on the WoT books over here. I'll see if I can find a picture...

-EDIT-
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/1841491632.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
They usually just have a black background, and the logo's a different colour each time, but you get the idea.

[Muffin Mage]

I just want all 200 main characters in the Wheel of Time to die. If it takes Robert Jordan 5 years and 10,000 pages, I won't care as long as everyone is dead at the end. I've hated the last five or six (with the surprising exception of Knife of Dreams), so for fuck's sake, give me some vindication here.

Incidentally, Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber pwn all over the Wheel of Time.

[Tiako]

Incidentally, am I the only person on the planet who doesn't hate Egwene for some unstated reason?
I hate Egwene because she is a stupid, stuck up bitch, but that might just be me.

Everyone wandered around almost aimlessly for 800 pages until Egwene
Spoilers here: My problem with that plot thread is I have to balance my intense hatred of the Aes Sedai with my intense hatred of Egwene, so I don't know who to root for. Spoilers end.

EDIT: My God, I am dumb. I hope I didn't ruin any of the book for anyone.

As for The Runelords, one think interesting about it is that it genuinely asks some deep and troubling philosophical questions about the nature of the relationship between ruler and ruled. The characters' struggle with morality vs. necessity is conveyed very well.

[DavidG]

I hate Egwene because she is a stupid, stuck up bitch, but that might just be me.She doesn't seem particularly stuck-up to me... not compared to some of the other main characters, anyway.

[Magus]

All the women are pretty big bitches except for the one's denoted as not being bitches specifically by Rand, i.e. Min and Aviendha.

[Truspeaker]

I think its fair to day that if all Aes Sedai were to die in the last book, everyone would be better off. Seriously, after reading a few tWoT books in a row, how can one help but look at women everywhere in distrust?

[Redhawk]

You will learn to hate the Aes Sedai with a passion. After all, what's better then a bunch of women who think they know everything and think they have the right to do whatever the **** they want?

EVERYTHING.

I've only gotten to Fires of Heaven so far and I'm satisfied. Not plot-wise of course. It's nice to watch as those sub-plots start to slip away from him.

EDIT: I heart Min. If Rand goes for Elayne, I will slay him.

[Thingol]

Ahh, I adore Wheel of Time. But yeahh, the most recent have sucked, Crossroads was meh and Winter's Heart was just slowwwww.

Thank God something finally actually happened in Knife.
And A New Spring was surprisingly decent as well...

[Muffin Mage]

SPOILER ALERT:












Redhawk, he actually goes for both of them. And Aviendha. The lucky bastard.










END SPOILER

[DavidG]

SPOILER ALERT:












Redhawk, he actually goes for both of them. And Aviendha. The lucky bastard.










END SPOILERBut min more than the other two, from the looks of things. Except, of course, there's the matter of the twins...

[Magus]

Someone should definitely put spoiler tags into that. Everyone use spoiler tags! Yeesh!

Did anyone else find that the whole thing with Perrin giving up the axein Crossroads of Twilight to actually be rather stupid? He ends up fighting by dual-wielding his blacksmith's hammer and a long knife, which is very cool, however, it kind've removes the entire point behind the axe, which was that he didn't want to fight anymore because he doesn't like how he feels when he does (battle exhilarates him), and it is stated by the character right in the novel that the hammer is not as good a weapon as the axe. Perhaps it will be explored that he realizes the axe isn't the problem, it's his own personality? Or is this the old fantasy cliche where for some really stupid unknown reason blunt weapons are actually considered more humanitarian than ones with edges? Like how in D&D Clerics use hammers and refuse to use swords, for some stupid hypocritical reason like that swords can only be used as weapons and hammers can be used to create as well, although all a huge war hammer is realistically useful for IS war?:D I suppose it makes sense in that fashion, that it is more akin to what he aspires to and a reminder that he wants to give up fighting when he can, but still, I always think it is silly when the idea is used in novels. He even killed poor Rolan, his wife's protector, without knowing that Rolan was protecting Faile, of course, which is an even worse cliche.

Oh, and Aram betraying Perrin may be cliche but I have to admit I was really surprised, all foreshadowing aside (his hanging out with Masema more and more I simply thought would lead to him and Perrin having a falling out, not Aram believing Perrin is Shadowspawn and trying to kill him. Did it surprise anyone else or did you see it coming?

[DavidG]

Like how in D&D Clerics use hammers and refuse to use swords, for some stupid hypocritical reason like that swords can only be used as weapons and hammers can be used to create as wellWell, that's actually the reasoning behind the Aiel not using swords, so maybe.

[Tiako]

I like the way you do spoiler tags. I'll use some myself: As for why Perrin gave away his axe, I think it was for two reasons: One was a sense of shame for the brutal way he treated the Aiel, and two is because of what Elyas told him, to throw the axe away once he started to enjoy using it. I think he was genuinely scared of what the axe could do at that point, but I am almost positive that he didn't use the hammer because he felt it was more humane. After all, axes do cleanly slice, while a hammer's crush if far more damaging. Another reason is probably that he wanted to hold on to some part of his old life. Spoilers end.

[Sesshoumaru]

Who else thinks that Mat is, by far, the best character in WoT? Spoliers! Besides being the most likeable character, he has the whole 'hundreds of men's memories, which IMO is far more interesting than magical powers or lycanthropy. On that note, anyone else think that Mat's gonna end up leading an army of Seanchan gunmen in the Last Battle? end of spoilers!

[Magus]

It's hard to pick one of the three main ones over the other, but Mat is definitely a good character. Nonchalance and pure luck are always entertaining.

[Kei-Kun]

I love mat, mostly because he is such an awsome commander (from the memories) yet, he doesn't WANT to be the awsome battle commander. And the foxhead medallion is just sweet, I can't wait for the confrontation between the 'finns (I can never remember their full names). Any one else saw the fact Moraine still living, coming? It was forshadowed from Min's viewing "...she was the only one my viewing's were false..." or something along those lines.(teh spoilie end)

Also, I hope Nynaeve pulls her hair right out of her scalp, and the rest of her skull with it. She is by far the most irksome to me (I'm fine with Egwene, but seriously, shut up about the freaking HEADACHES. Even IF a reincarnated Chosen is doing it so (s)he can read your mind while (s)he is "massaging" it away.)

And I don't belive Jordan will, for sure, have 3 years or so to finish the last one...I forgot what disease it was, but I belive it was some kind of heart one... >,<

Edit: Spoiler: Who here things Egwene is going to (after the obligatory taking over of the White Tower from the inside) somehow combine the Black & White Towers because of the devastation that will ensue from the White Tower recruiting Asha'men to counter what they think the Chosen did. And what the Black Ajah will do because I'm going to say 1/3 of the Aes Sedai going for Asha'men are going to be Black Ajah, and that will most definatly be a FUN fight. With TKing involved.
Also, I think the Athen'mire are worse than the Aes Sedai. Seriously, the Aes Sedai are teaching them stuff and they STILL act like arrogant *****s... (end spoilie)

[Magus]

Yeah, there'll be a huge battle with Mazrim Taim and the Black Asha'man and Black Ajah (Mazrim Taim was set up as a false dragon by the Black Ajah, so it's really inevitable that the Black Ajah will join with the Black Asha'man), and such, and then everyone will team up and march on Shayol Ghul or something with Malkieri and all the other nations and such. Real ROTK style stuff.

[Kei-Kun]

Yeah, there'll be a huge battle with Mazrim Taim and the Black Asha'man and Black Ajah (Mazrim Taim was set up as a false dragon by the Black Ajah, so it's really inevitable that the Black Ajah will join with the Black Asha'man), and such, and then everyone will team up and march on Shayol Ghul or something with Malkieri and all the other nations and such. Real ROTK style stuff.
...(spoilie)Taim IS Black Ajah. Didn't you read the very last few sentances of the book or so? He days something like what Moridin said about chaos. Like word for word. (end spoilie)

[Demetrius]

I think Mazrim is Moridin, I mean Bashere wasn't sure he was who he said he was, plus sitting on the throne in the hall of Moridin's colors, plus Perrin's take on the guy. He's totally Moridin.

Elayne is by far the most annoying of the main women. She's all 'Men come into maturity 10 years after women, everyone knows that' blah blah blah. At least Egwene will recognize that guys are good and so does Nynaeve. The Windfinders take the cake however, I now skip parts with them in it when I reread the books (when it is't a key section or when Mat, Rand or Birgette set them on their heels )

[Kei-Kun]

All I know is, Aes Sedai are getting payed back for their arrogance, and I know it's going to happen for the Athen'mire sooner or later...hopefully sooner. It's not just the Windfinders. It's all of them, especially the "ambassador" to Rand.

(spoilie?)I just can't wait until Rand gives them their 1 milex 1 mile square of land...he already said "...they never said the land had to be on water..." hee hee...that is going to make them HOWL. ^_^

[Magus]

I said Mazrim Taim was set up by the Black Ajah. He cannot be Black Ajah because he's a guy, so I just denoted that he's Black Asha'man. But anyway, yeah, I know, he's a darkfriend. He says "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" at the end of another novel, too. As for which Forsaken he is, supposedly Jordan has said he is not, but I doubt that Jordan actually said that. If he is a Forsaken, he's DEMANDRED. They look exactly the same, you see. He and Osan'gar were both sent "to watch what Rand Al'thor did" and Osan'gar (aka Dashiva) botched it, of course, but I assume Demandred is Taim. Although then again that kind of works agains it, because Taim is stuck in the Black Tower, although then again that must be why they said he was doing a poor job of watching Rand. Err. So anyway, yeah. As for the hall of Moridin's colors, Moridin's colors are black and red, and the hall was all white with black columns, so that's not a good connection. So if any Forsaken is Taim, it's Demandred.

Anyway, Jordan being a man he probably figured all of his female characters had to be She-Woman Man Haters or he'd be considered like you know sexist or something, or cliche, or whatever. You know what I mean.

[Kei-Kun]

Taimandred doesnt exist (that's what a lot of people call Taim/Demandred) RJ has denied it profusely. I want to say Taim is Moridin, but I don't know why. =/

[Tiako]

Spoiler: Unless I am mixing names, than Moridan is almost certainly Ishmael. End.

More:

If he is a Forsaken, he's DEMANDRED.
That was debunked at the end of WH, because Demandred said he didn't recognize one of the most powerful Asha'man as such. End.

As for Elayne, it is true she is the most stuck up, Nynaeve is the biggest bitch, and I sometimes question Aviendha's intelligence. However, only Elayne combines those three properties into the feared Stupid Stuck Up Bitch.

None can oppose her without wanting desperately to kill her. And the worst part is that I really like Gawyn.

[Kei-Kun]

Begin. Mordin is most definatly Ishamael. End.
(Just to be safe: Spoiler)And I like Galad more than Gawyn, mostly because of the prolouge. I wanna know what he's going to do with the Children of the Light now that he's Lord Captain Commander (ain't that a mouthful? >.< ) (End Spoilie)

[Magus]

I want to see the development between Rand and Galad, you know, since they're half-brothers. Probably wouldn't amount to much, though, if Jordan even has them ever bring it up in his 9000 page ending novel.

[Sesshoumaru]

It might just be me, but I really want to see the Seanchan use a great cannon on Tar Valons 'shining walls' cause that would be just awsome, especially if it involved some kind of primitive napalm shell.

[Demetrius]

I'm looking forward to Mat wooping ass on just about everyone, not to mention being married to the new Empress, and the Horn is gonna come out... but on whose side? I must also give the obligatory mention of the giving up half the light of the world to save the other half. And of course there is always the question of how Rand will manage to kill Lews Therin and save his own butt... gyahh!! I've just reread the series for the 23rd time and I'm going nuts waiting for the next book!!

[gurusloth]

Demetrius, that prophecy regarding Mat and him giving up half the light of the world to save the world is in regards to him plucking out one of his own eyes at some point in the future. Just so you know.

[Kei-Kun]

Demetrius, that prophecy regarding Mat and him giving up half the light of the world to save the world is in regards to him plucking out one of his own eyes at some point in the future. Just so you know.
Indeed. In true Odin fashion. That's what I love about Mat, he has so many parallels with Odin (Norse God for the unenlightened)

Also, Mat is probably going to use the dragons and dragons eggs to totally screw the Dark One over in the final battle. Also, I can see Rand having tanks because that one guy re-invented the steam engine. And does anyone share my belife that the Aes Sedai came about from America and Russian fighting a nuklear war, so the radiation changed people and caused a reccession of technology? Because they mention "Merc and Mark fighting with firey missles spears"(missles). That would be cool Fin.

[Gascmark de Leone]

I hope he manages to finish it off before it turns into another Dark Tower.

[Kei-Kun]

I hope he manages to finish it off before it turns into another Dark Tower.
I think the white and dark towers are going to combine like it was in the Age of Legends (where male/females worked together) and I think Rand is going to submit to Egwene to be the first male Aes Sedai or something (after she chews him out)

...This makes me think of the wonder twins... :sweatdrop

[Gascmark de Leone]

No, I was thinking about the Dark Tower series, by Stephen King. I liked the first three books, but after that, it just dragged. And it was a crazy, nut case ending.

[Magus]

OOOH, I get the Mat thing. And of course Rand's hand getting blown off mirrors Tyr. As such, which Norse god does Perrin represent, Thor? He's got the hammer, after all.

[Gascmark de Leone]

I think you're reading a little too much into this. Why can't the book be a book? Symbolism isn't everything!

[Demetrius]

Oh ho!! The eye bit, that makes sense now totally didn't put that together, I thought it would have something to do with making all of the Aes Sedai submit to the Seanchan... but I like yours more.

[Magus]

Well Jordan himself goes on and on about his symbolism crap, besides when entire pivotal parts of the plot are built around what Norse gods did in Norse mythology, it becomes important. Or whatever.

ROFL the only way this could possibly be as bad as what happened with the Dark Tower is if for some off the wall reason Jordan decided to make himself into a character in the book. B^) Still think Stephen King was out of his mind to put himself into his own novel. So STUPID. That's like one of the basic things you're NOT supposed to do when you're a fiction writer, make yourself into a character, I mean, literally you, with your looks and your name and how you think you are.

[Demetrius]

SHHHH!!! Man that definately ruins my aspirations to finish reading that series. I found the first couple books at a lawn sale and heard he finally finished the series... and I was gonna read it!! Now I am sad. :(

[Magus]

Oh, I guess that is a bit of a spoiler, but I figured everyone knew by now Stephen King stuck himself into the last book of the Dark Tower series I will note that it didn't have a lot to do with it and came up in the last book for a few chapters is all. I personally loved the series anyway. I'll dispense with telling you how he was involved in it, anyway, since you care so deeply. It will both surprise and excite you, despite my spoiling it (I think it was in the goddamn jacket of the book, for goodness sakes, or at least a very obvious reference to it).

But yeah, this may already be taking as long as the Dark Tower, it took about twenty years for it to get done and Jordan's moving towards that mark as we speak.

[Sesshoumaru]

I have a new hope (after thinking about several things): Steam Tanks (think Warhammer Fantasy Empire style), Mat thought up the gunpowder armements idea, all he has to do is see one of the steam wagons adn he'll probably be able to put the two things together.

[Magus]

Bah, I never did like that kind've stuff ruining my high fantasy. But it seems inevitable now. Heck in this book they threw grenades.

[Gascmark de Leone]

I have a question: These fantasy worlds are thousands of years old, right? Yet, with the execption of these steam wagons you speak of, there seems to be very little development of new technologies (i.e. the internal combustion engine, the rifle, hell, even the printing press)

[gurusloth]

Well, you don't need new technologies when you have magic (aka channelling). Also, in the WoT world there was a cataclysm not to long ago, so folks were sort of busy scraping out an existence for a while. Not a lot of free time to futz with new gadgets.

[Demetrius]

Umm... Let's reference the junk the Forsaken pull outta the stasis cubes (the glow bulbs for one) and the Universities that Rand is financing. I can't remember but wasn't there a meantion of a printing press as well?

(EDIT) Please tell me you have read the books that you are commenting on.

[Magus]

The basic plot (which I do not think is very spoilerish) is that 3000 years prior the planet was not only at the height of today's technology but actually advanced past due to Channeling, which made for all kinds of cool crap and abilities. But then there was a horrific war and cataclysm which I will not go into for fear of spoilers. So for probably 800 years or so after the cataclysm started it didn't let up, for one thing. So I don't see it too unrealistic that technology didn't readvance past medieval technology in the ensuing 2000 years or so. But anyway, read the books if you want the real low-down on "lack of advancement from ancient civilizations in fantasy novels".

EDIT: Oh and the ancient civilization had the equivalent of guns which were called Shock Lances, and cars and planes apparently, though I hope they had some sort of steampunkish or fantastical quality about them, because that's how I picture them. No other description of them is available. I assume that Shock Lance is either a medieval/made-up way of saying gun (like Ash's Boomstick is actually a shotgun), or it's some sort of energy beam shooting lance or lance that gives off an electric shock when stuck into people or something. Something rad like that.

[Tiako]

Also, it was stated that in the period after the Age of Legends (The Compact of Nations? I don't remember the name exactly) they were societally as advanced as in the Age of Legends and were developing technologies, but the Trolloc Wars ended that.

[Magus]

I hope some of these prequels Jordan plans to write if he lives long enough explain some of this stuff in better details. I think a War of the Shadow book is pretty much a given, and maybe one involving Artur Hawkwing.

[42PETUNIAS]

about analogies to other stuff, a friend gave me an immensely good explanation relating WoT to the Celts. He attached pretty much every major thing to something relating to the celts, i dont know much about it, and i forget a lot, but if anyone knows more about this analogy, or Celtic stuff, mention it. Apparently Rand is a major celtic hero, the name of which escapes me, aes sedai are druids, seanchan are the english, i think the aiel are the french, and on and on. I only remember a very small bit of it, and its probably partly wrong, but i do know that with all the information there is a really strong connection. spoilers end.

Also, i think right now (other than mat, with his kickass unit with crossbows, i love how they were decimating the bad guys so easily) is rand, probably just because how little hes featured now. but i do love how fricking beastly he is now though. That scene where he decimated the horde of trollocs was awesome. I hope it focuses more back on him, and that he becomes less whiney in the last book.

Edit: 23 times?! shit... Also, can people stop quoting spoilers? i dont really care myself, but it ruins the point of the spoiler cause it lets you see what it says.

[Tophat]

In terms of extra information not related completely to the main story, I'd like to see some more info on the Land of Madmen. Which is the third great continent (Randland + Aiel Waste + Shara being one and Seanchan being the other) which I only found out about in The World of The WHEEL of TIME. Or the age of ledgends and either the old Aiel or the Forsaken before they became evil.

[Magus]

I have a feeling this Land of Madmen isn't going to get worked into the plot. He has one more book and if he suddenly brought it up it'd be kind've weird. A prequel, though, or related novel, that'd be rad.

[Tiako]

The Land of the Madmen doesn't have very many literary possibilities unless RJ makes what is now the top of my list of books he needs to make: A Sea People's travelogue. We know the Sea People go everywhere, and imagine a Gulliver's Travels set in Randland. We could see the Shara, the Land of Madmen, one of the many outlying islands, and get a better grasp on the national cultures. I think that RJ has somewhat neglected his Randland Proper nations, and this would be the perfect way to correct it.

[Sesshoumaru]

Spoiler on teh Shocklance: In the scene where Elayne gets kidnapped by the Black Ajah, one of them uses a weapon form the age of legends that stuns them, so I think that the shocklance is probably along the lines of that (reread the scene if you have too, I'm too lazy to remember the details).

[Gascmark de Leone]

The basic plot (which I do not think is very spoilerish) is that 3000 years prior the planet was not only at the height of today's technology but actually advanced past due to Channeling, which made for all kinds of cool crap and abilities. But then there was a horrific war and cataclysm which I will not go into for fear of spoilers. So for probably 800 years or so after the cataclysm started it didn't let up, for one thing. So I don't see it too unrealistic that technology didn't readvance past medieval technology in the ensuing 2000 years or so. But anyway, read the books if you want the real low-down on "lack of advancement from ancient civilizations in fantasy novels".

EDIT: Oh and the ancient civilization had the equivalent of guns which were called Shock Lances, and cars and planes apparently, though I hope they had some sort of steampunkish or fantastical quality about them, because that's how I picture them. No other description of them is available. I assume that Shock Lance is either a medieval/made-up way of saying gun (like Ash's Boomstick is actually a shotgun), or it's some sort of energy beam shooting lance or lance that gives off an electric shock when stuck into people or something. Something rad like that.

Now, I don't remember for sure (I haven't read these books in a while, and my memory is spotty, at best), but it seems to me that the people don't like channeling and people who do it. So, for the most part, the Aes Sedai (sp?) aren't around in most of the places, so they're influence is low.

What's my point? My point is, that since most people can't rely on channeling to help them out, why the hell aren't they devoloping new technologies to help them? Even at a slow level of development, surely they'd come up with something new every hundred years or so.

[42PETUNIAS]

Well, recently the Aiel War happened, so that might explain why theres no new development. Also, for whatever reason, new growth wasn't encouraged or helped by the nobles. So when Rand started getting people to develop new technologies, he tapped a resource that wasn't being used previously, which would explain all the new inventions.

[Kei-Kun]

What I like about the novels is puzzling out the little tidbits, and relating them to our technology. "Glow Bulbs" = Light Bulb? "Sho Wings" = Airplane? It's one of those little things that make reading the series so fun.

Also, if you notice, every time there is a truely "advancingment" of civilization, a war happens which is probably caused by Ishamael, since he was able to touch, and maybe even WALK the world, while everyone else was trapped in the seal. and decimates everything. I just like how everyone seems to have something from today's age. Seanchan strike me as the Asians, Two Rivers are the English (longbows! squee!~) and such.

[Gascmark de Leone]

War is a very good catalyst of technology. And in every fantasy story, there always seems to be a war going on. So, the question is, WTF, mates? Get off yo' lazy asses and develop guns! Or at least something other than swords.

[42PETUNIAS]

Someone should so use fireworks and ball bearings in the last book. That could make a really awesome last battle.

[Kei-Kun]

Someone should so use fireworks and ball bearings in the last book. That could make a really awesome last battle.
*spoiler* you mean like Alurda's (sp?) prototype gernades, which uses stones insted of shrapnel to tear people apart? Or how about her invention of the cannon using fireworks with timed fuses to go off inside ranks of enemies? She also invented matches.*end spoiler*

On another note, how can you advance technology when every scrap of "advanced" civilaztion is torn apart and destroyed...? There also is no school system, so this is like medival ages, with perks, but sans schooling.

[42PETUNIAS]

Right, just like that, except widely used. I could see Mat getting his army to use it along with the heavy crossbows.

[Magus]

To Seshoumarou's comment on the possible shocklances *spoilers* It didn't just shock/stun them, it killed them instantly! That's badass! It could be a shocklance though, I haven't read the book in a month or more but it probably was a rod of some sort. Then again something that instantly kills someone probably isn't standard issue for troops like it was in the Age of Legends. Who knows?*spoilers end*

As to the war thing, the wars are supposed to last hundreds of years each. So while THAT is probably the unrealistic part, it might not be that unrealistic that after two hundred years people were reduced to stabbing each other with pointy sticks and sharpened plowshares again simply due to lack of any other alternative. It's a possible explanation for Jordan's apparent plothole, anyway. :D

[Demetrius]

The rod involved channelling, so no, not a shocklance. Aes Sedai are influential everywhere, even in places where channelling is outlawed due to the political pressure they can exert on anyone.

[Sesshoumaru]

Actually: the Black sister said she used it specially because it wouldn't give her away via channleing. Also, I think that her weapon was probably the 'sidearm' version of the shocklance.

[Magus]

Shocklances are a pretty broken weapon, then. I think I'd prefer a series of novels involving them and forget all this one-power nonsense. Hopefully Jordan will live and keep giving us novels so we can get a War of the Shadow prequel.