Who loves the classics?

[Specterbane]

And by that I mean, who loves the older books. For myself I can say that my favorites are The Three Musketeers series, Count of Monte Cristo, and probably toss in Heart of Darkness, The Secret Sharer, and The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

But what about everyone else?

[DeviousToast]

How old equates to a classic? :)

I'm a big fan of classic Brothers Grim fairy tales myself. Also, the Illiad and the Odyssey. Classic Greek mythology is cool.

[Arlia Janet]

I didn't really get into the Classics until about two years ago. My boyfriend refuses to read books that aren't at least 50 years old (if they are newer, they draw heavy inspiration from the classics), so I started to read his books when he was done, and now I'm hooked.

You can go to a used book store and pick up Aeschylus' entire collection of works for $3, and the whole damned thing is beyond brilliant. Literary fads come and go, but the stories that have passed the test of time are the ones where you can really take something away.

[DeviousToast]

Some things I'm not much of a fan of are things that are labeled as "Literature." Generally I find that to be a bit arbitrary... Hemmingway is a good example of books I don't find particularly entertaining, or interesting. They're well written I guess, in that they use the language well. But they strike me as... well... the template for emo.

[Magus]

I like a good adventure as far as classics go, I like to fulfull Robert Ebert's opinions of gamers by NOT reading William Faulkner (talk about boring). I much prefer The Black Arrow by Robert Louis Stevenson or Dracula by Bram Stoker.

Hemmingway is a terrible writer as far as the actual writing. Nothing wrong with the plots and all but the sentence structure and rhythm of his books is boring and almost childish in skill. I much prefer someone like Steinbeck. The Grapes of Wrath, The Pearl, Tortilla Flat...these are much more enjoyable to me, anyway.

[Satan's Onion]

DeviousToast, Magus...you dislike Hemingway too?

Joy.

Meanwhile, back on the topic, Chaucer ain't bad. I read the Canterbury Tales for school--it's at least as full of innuendo as anything on TV today, if you know what to look for =P . Oscar Wilde's pretty good, and not just for his plays either; he wrote lots of poems and some essays and short stories, and stuff like that. If we're including twentieth-century authors, P.G. Wodehouse is also really good. He's best known for Jeeves and Wooster, but his other main characters are worth seeking out too (I particularly like Lords Ickenham and Emsworth, myself).

[Fifthfiend]

Some things I'm not much of a fan of are things that are labeled as "Literature." Generally I find that to be a bit arbitrary... Hemmingway is a good example of books I don't find particularly entertaining, or interesting. They're well written I guess, in that they use the language well. But they strike me as... well... the template for emo.

If you think about it, Emo is basically Hemmingway minus World War II and hard liquor.

[DeviousToast]

No one understands me. My girlfriend died and it's raining. Stupid army. You're my only friend, shotgun. You help me let the darkness out.

[Mirai Gen]

No one understands me. My girlfriend died and it's raining. Stupid army. You're my only friend, shotgun. You help me let the darkness out.
I think that's Hemmingway in like...four seconds? I can't tell, it didn't take long to read aloud.

You'll do very well here.

[Crashtester]

I'm a fan of Grimm fairy tales myself, and for authors Wilde is pretty great that's for sure and Orwell isn't too bad either. As for labeling a book "emo" that's probably one of the silliest things I ever heard. A character who is tragic and upset doesn't suddenly fall into some pop music label people keep throwing around. That's like watching Macbeth and going "God he's so emo" or Hamlet "Stop being such an emo herb Hamlet and kick some butt!" Emo from the little I understand of the loose term is short for emotion, if you can think of a single book in classic literature that isn't filled with emotion and drama (or even melodrama) then definitely send it my way. And if you think Hemmingway is emo then you'd probably go mad reading any of the romantic poets.

[Tydeus]

Well, there's always the Odyssey, for starters. That's a good one.

But the Iliad is way better. There are two types of people in this world -- Odyssey people, and Iliad people. And Iliad people are better. Because I'm one of them.

But, I mean, really -- does it get any better? And talk about not emo! I mean, what, Achilles kind of acts like a little emo bitch at the beginning, but then he comes to his senses; he doesn't mope when his friend dies! He kicks some ass!

Also, Tacitus. That's really all the classical stuff I've read. BTW -- "Classical" or "the classics" generally refers to Greek and Roman works. Not just great literature in general.

[Satan's Onion]

If you think about it, Emo is basically Hemmingway minus World War II and hard liquor.

You forgot the killing and fighting animals. The Old Man and the Sea, f'r instance, was partly about killin' a big ol' fish.

Of course, killing animals is arguably just a subset of the more generalized "killin' shit and drinkin' hard" that gives so many male literature teachers such a raging Hemingway boner.

[Nique]

I enjoy the stories of classic literature... But I've read very few outside of Highchool (which is going on 4 years since graduation now). I have a hard time identifying with much of it, probably becuase of the style of writing... I mean, a Tale of Two cities was probably the most boring book I've ever read, but the story itself is interesting, just as an example.

[DeviousToast]

Great Gatsby was like that for me Nique. Like, it was an interesting situation. But overall, fairly dry reading.

[Magus]

I still can't figure out the attraction of The Great Gatsby. It isn't about anything! Well, I mean, it's about all these high society types who play tennis and go to parties and sit around chatting. But I really couldn't figure out the plot, if there is one. And it isn't even humorous like The Catcher In The Rye, another book about nothing.

[Sesshoumaru]

The Great Gatsy is basically daytime soap in book format. If you want old, old literature, read The Epic of Gilgamesh, its not terribly interesting, but if you read it you can brag about having read the oldest work of literature ever. Also, was anyone else's favorite part in the Iliad the chapter where Achilles' gets his ass beaten down by a river, or am I just weird?

[DeviousToast]

Haha, Gilgamesh is silly. And really good reading if you've read much mythology that followed it. A lot of stuff gets borrowed, or outright stolen from Gilgamesh. Greek stuff especially, they just kind of split up everything Gilgamesh did and partitioned it out to a bunch of heros.

[Gascmark de Leone]

I've read The Art of War and I've toyed around with The Prince. But I need to read some Homer or something like that so I can be an arrogant intellectual. By the way, does the Bible count as a classic?

(Please don't ban me for that. I'm not trying to make an argument.)

[Sesshoumaru]

Probably, seeing as how most was written thousands of years ago (Old Testament) and the rest not quite two thousand years ago. But you have to read the Catholic version, 'cause it has Macabees in it. Or just read read 2 Macabees Ch. 2, my all-time favorite Biblical story. Basically, one of the neighboring kings sends some guys to rob the temple, so everyone in the city drops to their knees and starts praying. Then an angelic knight comes and knocks the leader off his horse, then two more angels appear and beat the crap out of him. Great stuff.

*Also, about Gilgamesh. You just gotta like a guy whose one third human and two thirds divine. It takes some real skillz to pull that off.

[ElfLad]

Revelation is probably the best book of the Bible in terms of poetic imagery.

[Magus]

I've always dug Samson (JUDGES) myself. I mean, seriously, the best revenge story ever. Well, he gets killed when taking his revenge, but still. All I'm saying is we all have dreams of killing people just for cheating at our riddles, with the jawbone of a donkey, nonetheless, and marrying hot chicks like Delilah, and killing thousands of people, not to mention setting their fields on fire using foxes and shit. Only downside is getting your hair shaved off, losing your powers, and getting your eyes torn out, followed by months of slavery. However, that's where the sweet revenge part comes in, as you bide your time, allowing your hair to grow back because of the witlessness of your enemies, and then crushing hundreds of them by knocking the building supports down. The unbelievers NEVER see it coming.

Also, I find it hilarious that I just used spoiler tags for a Bible story.

[Althane]

I enjoy much of Robert Louis Stevenson's work. I will agree that Hemmingway is just... yuck.

I've only READ Shakespear's The Tempest, but I've watched plays from almost all his other works..

Wait, I did read A Midsummer's Night Dream, that was pretty good. Overall, though, I prefer plays to actually READING the plays.

I've read Seutonius' The Twelve Caesars. Very interesting book, really gives a look into how REAL the Roman Emperors were. They really feel human.

I read a little bit of Plutarch. Besides finding out the ancient Greeks were dicks, nothing really interesting.

Hmmm, can't stand Charles Dickens, he's just boring as hell to me.

Trying to think of what other "classics" I've read. Does Sherlock Holmes count? I've ready every single one of those.

Yeah, I read a lot. I also spend a lot of time on the computer reading Wikipedia.

Oh, I didn't like Kidnapped. Though I love Edgar Allen Poe. The man was twisted, but he had some good stories.

[Nique]

Also, I find it hilarious that I just used spoiler tags for a Bible story.

You ruined it for me! I was just getting to that part! Thanks a lot moron!

I always liked the parables of the gospel myself. Poor rich jewish kid spent all his money on loose women and ended up pig-hearding. I won't spoilt the ending though like SOME PEOPLE.

[DeviousToast]

I personally prefer Poe as a short story writer to a poet. Not that there's a HUGE difference between the two, as his stories have a spectacular rhythm to them.

Don't get me wrong, his poems are good too. But they always feel to me like there was more he wanted to say. Fall of the House of Usher... mmm...

[Gascmark de Leone]

I like the Epistles. They're pretty simple, and you usually don't have to guess what parts are supposed to be taken literally and which parts are just symbolism.

I also read a lot of the H. G. Wells stories. It's kind of weird, reading books like The War of the Worlds, and realizing how wrong he was.

[Fifthfiend]

By the way, does the Bible count as a classic?

(Please don't ban me for that. I'm not trying to make an argument.)

Depends how comfortable you are with someone sharing their opinion that it's a shitty read, full of one-note characters, preachy histrionics, agressively idiotic nonsense (Samson: Durrrr yes I tell pretty lady my secret weakness, pretty lady no betray me again hurrrrrrr) and a literal Deus Ex Machina of an ending that couldn't have been more contrived if it'd been directed by Michael Bay. Oh yeah and an epilogue that reads like the absolute worst drug-addled, utterly out-of-character fan-fiction ever put from pen to page.

I'm guessing people aren't gonna be too comfortable with that. So sorry boys and girls, Bible Study is over.

That last bit underlined and bold cause I get real tired of having to ban people for failing to get that over means over.

... I mean and honestly - the epistles? Those aren't even fucking stories, just straight-up damn advertisements for Jesusism. I mean really WTF, guys.

The Great Gatsy is basically daytime soap in book format.

I found I actually rather enjoyed GG - despite disliking basically every single one of its characters, especially any character whom I was supposed to find sympathetic.

I mean at some point it's just like okay yes, the very rich are evil sociopaths... sooooo what the fuck is Gatsby doing spending basically his entire life, nursing this weird-ass emoboy crush on an evil sociopath, who is herself married to another evil sociopath?

[Magus]

I was comfortable with your opinion about the Bible, as it was pretty hilarious. I'd also like to point out that we were earlier talking about Greek legend, which also had its basis in a religion; just because the religions are now extinct doesn't change that. In that sense I'd say the Bible is literature.

But I'll digress and avoid bannage, because you ARE Fifthfiend, and I know you mean business, by talking about Dracula. Why the hell did the movie skip anything exciting from the book and instead just focus on showing tits? Well...I mean...I kind've see why they did THAT, but in the book they keep fighting Dracula and chasing him down all over London, but in the movie absolutely nothing happened. The book is seriously one of my favorite reads. It makes modern shit like Anne Rice look atrocious, especially how weak and stupid her vampires are. And how goth and emo they are, as well. Dracula was just a plain old monster, and he wasn't goth or emo at all.

The movie tried to make him emo, actually, by throwing in some crap about his wife committing suicide and his being really sad about it. This never happened in the book, and it certainly never happened in real history, and if it had Vlad Dracul would've just shrugged it off completely as women in his time were pretty much considered worthless objects. And he was a ruthless psychopath who got a kick out of impaling his enemies. All I'm saying is the book was true to form and Dracula is just a very, very evil and psychotic guy who needs to be stopped. But the movie tried to make it into a romance and so ruined everything about the story.

Anyway, my point is that our modern society and Hollywood just seems like it has to project its values onto classic literature and rape the hell out of it. People are never just evil, there has to be some past trauma in their life that made them that way, etc. I can't stand it when people try and add stuff like that to classic literature.

[Tiako]

I love Homer. I love Virgil. I love Cicero. I think pretty much everything that has lasted over two thousand years has done so for a reason. More recently, I love Voltaire and Jonathon Swift. I hold the increasingly unpopular opinion that Dickens was a genius (I blame the fact that students have to read him in school for his current unpopularity). In non-fiction, Machiavelli was brilliant.

But more than anything, I love a good Sherlock Holmes.

women in his time were pretty much considered worthless objects
That isn't precisely true. The view of women held by our ancestors is much more complicated than modern feminists would have you think.

The movie tried to make him emo, actually, by throwing in some crap about his wife committing suicide and his being really sad about it.
That wasn't in either Nosferatu, Bela Lugosi's, or Christopher Lee's Dracula, and as far as I'm concerned, those are the only legitimate movies.

By the way, does the Bible count as a classic?
I'll avoid bannage (That may be the first time I have ever read a review of the Bible as a book), but I would like to add something: If you want brilliant religious writings, you can't go wrong with St. Augustine.

[Fifthfiend]

I'd also like to point out that we were earlier talking about Greek legend, which also had its basis in a religion; just because the religions are now extinct doesn't change that. In that sense I'd say the Bible is literature.

Except that Greek legend is a 'religion' that nobody believes, so you can discuss and criticize greek legend without having to worry about anyone getting all butt-hurt that you've offended their personal metaphysical conception of the universe, which is what the no-religion rule is all about.

I'll avoid bannage

Now see, if only you'd meant that.

If you want brilliant religious writings, you can't go wrong with St. Augustine.

What part of over did you think meant "Yes by all means, feel free to hawk the religious writings of a sainted Catholic theologian, whose works of biblical interpretation are foundational aspects of Christian doctrine"?

Let me be real clear:

Stop talking about religion, guys.

Tiako, banned for five days.

Next person brings up the subject? Is permanently banned.

There now, I hope that's clear.

Now if anybody wants to discuss any literature that is not a foundational document of an active religious denomination or specifically grounded in the theology thereof, please proceed in doing so.

EDIT: But if you do have something to say about religion, feel free to say it here (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?p=474643).

[Magus]

That wasn't in either Nosferatu, Bela Lugosi's, or Christopher Lee's Dracula, and as far as I'm concerned, those are the only legitimate movies.


I was referring to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Stoker's_Dracula) one. I mean, look at the title. This movie purported to follow the plot of the original novel. But the deviations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Stoker's_Dracula#Deviations_from_the_novel_an d_reality) change far too much, and change the whole meaning of the character. But Hollywood has done that to a lot of classic literature. I think the most criminal act was The League of Extraordinary Gentleman, though, and also Van Helsing and The Brothers Grimm.

[Gascmark de Leone]

It's nice to have your religion get slapped in the face. But whatever. I'm dropping it. Despite what previous experience tells you, I don't like getting banned.

Okay, so my new favorite story is 1984. I'm a little depressed right now, and the book just fit my mood.

[Lord of Joshelplex]

Do the H. G. Lovecraft stories count as classics? Also, who here thinks Dickens is a hack?

[Nique]

Thinks? Dickens IS a hack.

[Lord of Joshelplex]

Thinks? Dickens IS a hack.

I agree. Read 10 minutes of Great Expectations and try to not kill yourself from boredom.

[Magus]

A Christmas Carol wasn't too bad as far as Dickens goes. Anything else is fairly boring, though.

Lovecraft definitely counts as classic, seeing as how we're talking about Hemingway and Steinbeck and such. Although I don't really like Lovecraft himself, I like a lot of the things based off of his writing, but the actual short stories he wrote were pretty dull, in my opinion.

I've always liked Ray Bradbury. Definitely a good fantasy author from yesteryear, even if his science fiction is laughable now that we know more about Mars and Venus. But the thing with Bradbury is the science fiction aspects aren't really the point of the short stories, it's the supernatural fantasy things that end up happening to the astronauts that make him stand out so much. He himself has said that fantasy lives on much longer than science fiction because it so often deals with irony or human nature, and that's why The Martian Chronicles will be read forever even though it's pure fantasy. Read The Illustrated Man or Dandelion Wine or I Sing The Body Electric, among other collections, and you'll see what I mean. The only novel of his off the top of my head I can think of besides The Martian Chronicles (which I didn't like a whole lot) is Farenheit 451, which is a great book.