character VERSUS character VERSUS another character VERSUS your mother

[Fifthfiend]

We haven't had one in a while so I figured what the hell.

I mean we had that one in the Games Forum that seemed to kind of just rot in the vine, I dunno if GF is really the place for doing these things.

I'll leave this up s'long as it doesn't get too crazy I guess.

Or until Mashirosen reaches down from the heavens to visit divine wrath upon us all, I mean, whichever.

For the uninitiatied, this is the place for all your "Hell King Black Mage versus Zuzu, the little girl from It's a Wonderful Life: who shall prove victorious upon the field of battle?" or "Who would win in a being made out of bones contest, Skeletor or Galactus?" kind of things. All this kind of thing goes here, none of this kind of thing goes anywhere not-here.

Edit as per Neko: No characters whose initials are C.N. and whose first name ends with the letter K and whose last name ends with the letter S may be mentioned in this thread. AT ALL, EVAR.

Edit the Second: Not that it's been a problem yet but just pre-emptively speaking I want to make it clear that all the usual rules of the forum apply herein, so no flaming or any of that, please. Boss Clevinger's willingness to tolerate these sorts of indiscretions exists in direct proportion to the extent which they do not become bottomless pits of awful.

[Ogianres]

Aha! I get to suggest the first match! Victoly!

SGC from Stargate: SG-1 (as of season 9) vs. Terran Dominion from StarCraft.
Let's assume that the Terran Dominion, along with the Koprulu Sector, has been transported to the Stargate universe and has access to, and learned enough to operate, stargates. This includes knowing of the addresses of the more influential planets in the galaxy, such as the planets in the Koprulu Sector, Dakara, Chulak, and Earth.

[Regulus Tera]

Just as a warning, fifth, are we going to accept mentions of the unspeakable one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck%20Norris)?

[OctoberRaven]

Hm. At the risk of shadowing Ogian's post, I have a vs of my own:

Deadpool vs Joker. Assuming that both Cable and Harleyquin are elsewhere and that Batman isn't anywhere near the combat.

[Fifthfiend]

Just as a warning, fifth, are we going to accept mentions of the unspeakable one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck%20Norris)?

Oh shit, thanks for reminding me dude. That was a close one.

[ArlanKels]

Aha! I get to suggest the first match! Victoly!

SGC from Stargate: SG-1 (as of season 9) vs. Terran Dominion from StarCraft.
Let's assume that the Terran Dominion, along with the Koprulu Sector, has been transported to the Stargate universe and has access to, and learned enough to operate, stargates. This includes knowing of the addresses of the more influential planets in the galaxy, such as the planets in the Koprulu Sector, Dakara, Chulak, and Earth.


Terran Dominion vs SGC?

Well, the Terran Dominion has superior tech, but as SG1 has shown the SGC is capable of dealing with superior tech via inferior tech + Jack O'Neill's wise cracking commentary.
Terran Dominion, also, created the Zerg if I remember correctly, so they're just as stupid and/or potentially more idiotic than the Gou'ald(sp). However, they also seem to have better technology, and as has been demonstrated by the preaching people of Season 9-10 super superior tech is enough to at least screw over the SGC temporarily.

BUT the SGC has duex ex machina or whatever on it's side. What's this? The Replicators are going to take over everything? ZOOP WE HAVE THE MAGIC ANSWER.
however, the SGC has failed before to deal with problems...but then in the end had the answers handed to them. Which is the biggest issue.


So what I expect:
Daniel will die at some point, as he must die at least once each season(Seriously).
O'Neill will return for part of the fight, in which he'll download the Ancients knowledge and suddenly know of a secret device that can return the Terran organization back to whence it came.
Teal'C will say "Indeed".
Sam will change her hairstyle again.
Bra'tac will seem to die and/or get severely hurt yet somehow pull through and still stay alive(Darn 150 year old).
SG:Atlantis staff will get a cameo appearance.


Hm. At the risk of shadowing Ogian's post, I have a vs of my own:

Deadpool vs Joker. Assuming that both Cable and Harleyquin are elsewhere and that Batman isn't anywhere near the combat.

At what point of Deadpools continuinity are we talking about?
If it's near the start, Deadpool wins as Joker can't kill him.
If it's after he starts losing his powers, Joker wins because Wade Wilson simply can't take down the homicidal mastermind without his regenerative abilities...cause come on. It's the Joker.
If it's after he became mentally and physically fixed so his powers were returned and his sanity returned then WW would win easily, unless if the Joker reminded him of his homosexual fantasies involving Cable.

[POS Industries]

SGC from Stargate: SG-1 (as of season 9) vs. Terran Dominion from StarCraft.
Let's assume that the Terran Dominion, along with the Koprulu Sector, has been transported to the Stargate universe and has access to, and learned enough to operate, stargates. This includes knowing of the addresses of the more influential planets in the galaxy, such as the planets in the Koprulu Sector, Dakara, Chulak, and Earth.

Honestly, it seems to me that defending a planetary assault by Stargate is pretty easy. I mean, hell, in Earth's case, you just shut the iris and the whole Terran army slams straight into solid steel.

I mean, the Terrans could maybe try the classic "send a bigass bomb through the gate plan", but then they ultimately destroy the gate. Lives are lost at Stargate Command, but the Earth is relatively safe.

Deadpool vs Joker. Assuming that both Cable and Harleyquin are elsewhere and that Batman isn't anywhere near the combat.

I gotta give it to Deadpool. The bulk of Joker's various attacks revolve around things from which Deadpool can immediately regenerate. Joker doesn't really have that advantage himself.

[Sithdarth]

I mean, the Terrans could maybe try the classic "send a bigass bomb through the gate plan", but then they ultimately destroy the gate. Lives are lost at Stargate Command, but the Earth is relatively safe.

Yeah except again you close the Iris and the bomb smashes into the shield while still decomposed into basic atoms and never rematerializes so that it can explode. Otherwise the Goa'uld would have done that years ago.

Also, Earth now has the entire knowledge base of the Asgard who had the entire knowledge base of the ancients. Plus they have working examples of all current Asgard ship technology installed on one of their big ass ships. Combine that with the chair which is now powered and Sam's demonstrated ability to make the entire planet completely out of phase so that not even ascended beings can effect it and we don't have much of a fight.

[ArlanKels]

You forget, though. The Terrans need only find a bunch of crystals and they can create a seemingly un-ending army.

Thus they could continually churn out space-based vehicles with which to launch a never-ending assault upon Earth itself by space. Sooner or later the chair will run out of drones.

[Sithdarth]

You forget, though. The Terrans need only find a bunch of crystals and they can create a seemingly un-ending army.

Thus they could continually churn out space-based vehicles with which to launch a never-ending assault upon Earth itself by space. Sooner or later the chair will run out of drones.

Uh they have fully functional Ori ship destroying in two shots energy weapons on a ship now as well as a function Asgard power source and detailed plans on how to build more. Between the chair and the fleet of ships they are now able to build with Asgard weapons it shouldn't be to hard to fight anything off.

Further, Sam demonstrated that with just the power generated conventionally by about 80% of the continental she can use Merlin's device to take the entire planet out of phase for quite some time. Combine that with the fact they now know how to build Asgard power cores and they could just take the planet out of phase indefinitely. Maybe set up a very large Naqueda bomb mine field though I'm sure they could just build a planetary defense satellite grid using Asgard tech that would be nigh on impenetrable.

[ArlanKels]

Man...you don't watch one season and they get superweapons up the yin-yang.



~ Don't forget what happened when Daniel made a planetary defense grid. He blew up Moscow. Crazy old Daniel...

[Sithdarth]

That was only because he basically had turned himself into a Goa'uld. Also, you missed the last season ever and you expected nothing to change?

[Fifthfiend]

Oh okay so here's one:

The Battlestar Galactica v. the USS Enterprise

[Tendronai]

Just for clarity sake, who's piloting the Enterprise, Kirk or Picard? I assume it's one of those two, with all their respective crews.

[ArlanKels]

And which Galactica? Old school or new version?


That was only because he basically had turned himself into a Goa'uld. Also, you missed the last season ever and you expected nothing to change?

I got really bored with the series after Season 9. I don't like the ZOMGJESUSISHAVINGACRUSADE villains.

[Fifthfiend]

I guess I was assuming Picard and the new Galactica cause those are the two I'm familiar with.

[ArlanKels]

Picard, as he's a history buff and tactician of unbelievable capability. His mental capacity(There's a reason most of his head is bald) is astounding. He will use ANY tactic and trick in the book in order to win in a starship fight, including sacrificing his ship as a fricking ram if need be.(See: That one movie with the Romulans and monkeys, and see one of the Star Trek novels for ramming action)

However some of the Galactica people will survive, as they have those nifty little flying fighter ships of DOOM.


Of course, it also doesn't help that the Enterprise has shields and fricking lasers and exploding photon torpedos of DEATH.

[greed]

Yeah I'm pretty sure the Star Trek tech is at a level where the Battlestar's stuff couldn't even touch them. And ignoring that I still go with Star Trek for AK's reasons.

Oh and Fifth, I'm guessing the Supes, Goku, Squirrelgirl and other farts to destroy suns/plot armour god type character ban is still in effect?

[IHateMakingNames]

I would assume only people who are actually omnipotent would be banned. There are plenty of people who beat Superman.

[Fifthfiend]

As of right now no bans save for he who must not be named.

He will use ANY tactic and trick in the book in order to win in a starship fight, including sacrificing his ship as a fricking ram if need be.

I want to believe the BSG would have a chance on account of pretty much their entire crew is made up of dirty fighters that make the Enterprises dirty fighters look like the Space Marquis of Queensbury. Like hell there's an even chance Adama would just surrender outright, and then send Colonel Tigh over to hand over their surrender with a bomb strapped to his chest and take out the entire enemy ship's command. Or President Rosalyn would just convince everybody she was Space Jesus or something.

Realistically I think they only have a chance if they can get their pet Cylon to do that thing where she plugs the ship's computers into her wrist veins and blows out the Enterprise's entire computer system, but even that's kind of a long shot.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Speaking about BSG, I must bring up an interesting question:
Edward James Olmos as Bill Adama Vs. Samuel L. Jackson with the combined powers of Jediness and snakefighter

We keep Shaft and Miami Vice out of this since they equal each other out...

[Meister]

fifth vs. Fenris in a No Disqualification match.

[greed]

We've already seen that in the "Hey DFM "topic. Fifth uses admin powers to screw Fenny over but fucks it up and Fenris rubs his face in it, then Fifth "accidentally" makes the server kill all the evidence of it happening.

Realistically I think they only have a chance if they can get their pet Cylon to do that thing where she plugs the ship's computers into her wrist veins and blows out the Enterprise's entire computer system, but even that's kind of a long shot.

Didn't Data do that to the Borg at one point? As cool as the Cylons are they aren't at the same tech level as the Collective. Data would just go "Oh no you didn't" and digitally bitchslap the Cylon so hard she'd turn into a bucket of bolts. Assuming that if Picard's there Data is too. The dirtyfighting angle is probably their only chance though I think they'd detect a bomb in the transporter. Which highlights another advantage. Battlestar doesn't have any shields against teleporting. I imagine that could cause problems. Plus unless the ship has Bajorans on it I doubt Space Jesus would fly, and if it did, she'd probably have to have a fist fight with Sisko to determine the true Space Jesus or something.

Heh, my Firefox spell checker has no problem with Borg but has one with Cylons.

[Mesden]

Heh, my Firefox spell checker has no problem with Borg but has one with Cylons.

Borg (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/borg) vs. Cylon (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Cylon) dictionary style!

[POS Industries]

fifth vs. Fenris in a No Disqualification match.

http://parkercomics.com/yoda-peg-costume-10-10-2006.jpg

Onward....

Borg vs. Cylon

I know it was a joke, but this could be interesting. Or, actually, really not. It seems more like both sides attempting to more or less hack into and override the other's control system, but I gotta give it to the Borg for basically just being the primary thing they're good at.

I mean, really, already being cyborgs probably makes the Cylons the easiest possible race for the Borg to assimilate.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, giving the Cylons an opponent that was more their speed as far as military might and development might make a more interesting battle. The Dominion, perhaps?

[Fenris]

We've already seen that in the "Hey DFM "topic. Fifth uses admin powers to screw Fenny over but fucks it up and Fenris rubs his face in it, then Fifth "accidentally" makes the server kill all the evidence of it happening.
No no, that was the "Kurosen is a jerk (ALSO FIFTH IS A DICK)" thread.

Oh man good times.

I win the battle, he would inevitably win the war, should he pull out an IP Ban.

[Fifthfiend]

No no, that was the "Kurosen is a jerk (ALSO FIFTH IS A DICK)" thread.

Oh man good times.

I win the battle, he would inevitably win the war, should he pull out an IP Ban.

I still don't know how the fuck you got back in after I banned you.

[Fenris]

I still don't know how the fuck you got back in after I banned you.
Mad skills?

I could probably still harrass you from the MCP though.

[Ex. 68471]

Inigo Montoya(The Princess Bride) Vs. Zorro in a Sword Duel to the death.

[Fifthfiend]

I could probably still harrass you from the MCP though.

See that's what I can't figure out, is how you were still able to access the modcp.

Inigo Montoya(The Princess Bride) Vs. Zorro in a Sword Duel to the death.

Before or after Inigo has killed the six-fingered man?

[Melfice]

Going back to the Star Trek vs. Battlestar Galactica...

There's another Enterprise (NX-01). Jonathan Archer being the captain of this vessel.
Just mentioning, seeing as there was only speaking of Kirk and Picard, awesome as they are.

[Fifthfiend]

There's another Enterprise (NX-01). Jonathan Archer being the captain of this vessel.

NO THERE WASN'T.

[Melfice]

Well, I know there wasn't.
But it still exists.

Even though it doesn't.

[Fifthfiend]

Let's just say that while there was in fact in the Star Trek universe an Enterprise NX-01 captained by a John Archer, no meaningful claims can be made about said captain or his ship in a Versus context because no depiction of his exploits has ever been produced in any entertainment medium, ever.

[POS Industries]

Also, bringing such hypothetical, totally nonexistent characters like Archer into the equation would open a whole floodgate for Enterprises under the command of Pike, Harriman, Garrett, Jellico, and even Riker for about a day and a half.

It sets a bad precedent, you know?

[OctoberRaven]

Okay...

Lobo vs Wolverine. Fight isn't over until the loser is permanently, utterly destroyed... granted that would take a LONG time... but who would win?

[Fifthfiend]

See Riker would be actually sort-of within bounds, cause they actually have on-film instances of him captaining the Enterprise, giving us a canon from which to extrapolate regarding his overall captaining abilities.

Whereas, as John Archer has never been depicted in any entertainment medium, his capabilities in a conflict setting remain purely hypothetical.

Lobo vs Wolverine. Fight isn't over until the loser is permanently, utterly destroyed... granted that would take a LONG time... but who would win?

The fight would last all of several seconds, the majority of which would be the time Lobo expends wiping the leftover bits of Wolverine spattered across his knuckles.

I mean Lobo is basically Wolverine to the power of Superman times explicit villainy IN SPACE!!!, plain old base-model Wolverine just doesn't have a lot of options here.

[ArlanKels]

Truthfully, if the Battlestar conducted dirty tactics they could easily beat the Enterprise, as Picard, while not 100% trusting, is accustomed to a much more civilized and peaceful society.

So he wouldn't anticipate Humans that act like Ferangi.

Lobo, while not unbeatable, is IMMORTAL.
And can regenerate from a pool of blood.


Wolverine wouldn't stand a chance.


Try this one on for size:
Anita Blake, Vampire Executioner versus Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Friends aren't allowed to interfere.

[Fifthfiend]

I'm not saying Lobo's unbeatable, just unbeatable by Wolverine, cause he's on the Superman level of strength except without any of the you know, anything remotely resembling moral scruples. It would basically be like

"Fight is Begin!"

*Lobo punches Wolverine into the sun*

"Oh snaps, I got some bits of Wolverine on my knuckles, lemme take a second real quick and wipe that off."

[Zilla]

Borg Cube vs Death Star, go!

[IHateMakingNames]

I actually figured Lobo would simply grab Wolverine's lunging arm, then smash him against the ground, where Wolverine would explode in a fleshy mess due to the force.



The Death Star would just blow up the Borg Cube with it's plant destroying laser.

[ArlanKels]

I'm not saying Lobo's unbeatable, just unbeatable by Wolverine, cause he's on the Superman level of strength except without any of the you know, anything remotely resembling moral scruples. It would basically be like

"Fight is Begin!"

*Lobo punches Wolverine into the sun*

"Oh snaps, I got some bits of Wolverine on my knuckles, lemme take a second real quick and wipe that off."

Pfft.
More likely Lobo would gut him, like a fish.
"Because the MAIN MAN isn't afraid of no fragging wussies."

Borg Cube would get spanked. Fast.
But they'd get some survivors off into the Death Star, whereupon they'd convert it into the Death Borg Cubtar

[Ogianres]

If the Death Star doesn't destroy the Borg cube in one shot before any scouts are beamed over, they lose. The whole fight rests solely on that. We all know that the Imperial military lacks the neccessary innovation and resourcefulness to defeat any more than one or two drones. With a station so large, at least a dozen drones would be beamed over.

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

My original answer was that the Borg Cube was right fucked. There were two situations, however, where I could conceive of the opposite.

1. There are actually two cubes in close proximity and one manages to adapt to the imperial lasers with that thing that masquerades as technology, but obviously isn't, what with its wanton disregard for sensibility or physics.

2. The Borg assimilate some manner of Bothan, and use its information to construct some horrible self-guided, Bothan-cloaked death torpedo of death which promptly exploits the Death Star's weak-point-ex-machina.

That was, however, until I saw this:
If the Death Star doesn't destroy the Borg cube in one shot before any scouts are beamed over, they lose. The whole fight rests solely on that. We all know that the Imperial military lacks the neccessary innovation and resourcefulness to defeat any more than one or two drones. With a station so large, at least a dozen drones would be beamed over.

And the transporters had actually not occurred to me. There is a good deal of merit to that argument, the Imperials have proven themselves efficient, not creative, in any event that they've proven themselves at all. And borg adaptability being what it is, I would give them doom after their blasters ran out.

However, I'm reasonably sure that, if the cube were destroyed, the borg drones on the station would shut down. I seem to recall that they cannot operate independently of some node on their ship that keeps them connected to the collective, or some manner of deus ex machina like that. However, could the cube circumvent its destruction in some way, then.

[Zilla]

There's also the disadvantage that the Death Star has to pivot to bring it's beam to bear on the Borg Cube. If they can approach from the backside, they might have a chance, as the Cube itself is pretty well armed, and the Death Star only only those surface turrets that function only at very close range.

[OctoberRaven]

Okay, here's one with a twist.

Punisher vs Batman, not direct combat but a criminal catching/killing contest. Both have an hour to mop up as many thugs as possible. To keep everything even, no allies, and no major villains running interference.

EDIT- Also, Borg Cube wins easily. Wont take long for them to find out about the exhaust port. Then it's a matter of sending kamikazes.

[Ugainius]

Borg Cube vs Death Star= Death Star victory.
Why?

1 Come from Behind) The Death Star requires one shot to win. even if the Cube "came from behind," as it were it would still take the Borg time to take down the Imperial stormtroopers scattered throughout The DS (Oh my God, did I just say that?)

2 Bothan Spy shizz) Unless the Borg have developed some kind of Starfighter (Which I doubt they have seeing as this is its first encounter with Imperial tech) The Borg Cube would still be obliterated by the (sigh) DS in a matter of seconds. Not to mention the close range turrets intercepting the missle

3 2 Cubes) Oh yeah? Well then... IMPERIAL NAVY FUCK-CLUSTER

I speac god Inglish

[ArlanKels]

The only place I can recall ever seeing Borg fighters is from the PSX(PlayStation1) console video game wherein you have to fight against them with your own little fighter craft.

They were annoying.

Punisher would beat Batman in a villain catching/killing contest simply due to the fact that while Batman can readily defeat any normal thug, the Punisher would walk mass murder them all in order to win the contest. Via grenades and C4 and rocket launchers to the jail cells.

Because he's the Punisher.

[Zilla]

Okay, here's one.

Matt Murdock(Daredevil) vs Phoenix Wright in a fight, and then a trial where they must implicate the other person in starting it.

[POS Industries]

In the Borg Cube vs. Death Star fight, another thing that's being overlooked is tractor beams. Both possess them, but the Borg can adapt to the Empire's beam while the Empire can't do the same. This gives greater merit to the "come from behind" approach.

Still, the war with Species 8472 showed that the Borg are complete suck in dealing with planetkiller weaponry if they don't have time to properly react. However, the Borg's adaptive abilities don't just end at technology. A Borg scanning wave would probably detect the Death Star's primary weapon before the Empire could get a chance to fire it, prompting the cube to adapt strategically to overcome it.

I say the fight goes down like this. Cube comes out of warp, scans the Death Star, notes the weapon, detects that it's about to fire, and accesses its collective memory (which still includes the entire lifetime record of Jean-Luc Picard up to the year 2366). The best strategy would be a quick jump to warp for a split second as the Death Star fires, instantaneously putting the cube behind the DS where it locks on a tractor beam, immobilizing the Imperial battle station and allowing drones to beam aboard and begin assimilation.

Quick and easy.

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

2 Bothan Spy shizz) Unless the Borg have developed some kind of Starfighter (Which I doubt they have seeing as this is its first encounter with Imperial tech) The Borg Cube would still be obliterated by the (sigh) DS in a matter of seconds. Not to mention the close range turrets intercepting the missle
That's why they have the missile guide itself and cloak. The Bothans have cloaking technology, and the MODERN DAY has guided missiles, extrapolated out to that time frame, there's no reason you couldn't strap a cloaking device on that thing and let it pilot itself to the port.

3 2 Cubes) Oh yeah? Well then... IMPERIAL NAVY FUCK-CLUSTER
They're all lasers. Once you've adapted to one, you've adapted to them all, so to speak. I mean, there's methodologies within that, in much the same way the Federation used, but the Imperials have never shown themselves as creative as the Federation. Even insomuch as they're more effective than they seem against the protagonists most of the time, that's not even an issue here. The Imperials may be effective, but clever and creative?

Maybe they're on top, and they've never really had to be... but that still just makes it less likely.

Admittedly, those are either very unlikely or not in the spirit or letter of the competition, so I'd still go Death Star, but I think you're dismissing them too easily.

EXCEPTION: POS.

That seems all well and good. Really, there's only one flaw I can see. The borg never seemed to have very effective memory retention, in instances like that.

I mean, that may just be protagonist deus ex machina mumbo jumbo, but they still seemed to forget even the most general tactics and lose old adaptations over time. However, assuming that's not really something we want to count on, since there's no real explanation for it except "woo, protagonists", then yeah, that works.

[ArlanKels]

By the way...in this fight betwixt the Borg Cube and the Death Star are we talking about destruction of one vessel == win?

[Sithdarth]

We're forgetting one very key fact. The planet killing weapon takes like a minute or more to fire and before firing it builds up energy. Further the energy condensing of the ring of lasers in the center means it can't actually move while firing. It can't move because the second it did the photons that had been collecting at that center point would stay while the beams moved to another spot. Meaning the whole charging process would have to start over. So unless the Death Star can magically keep the Borg Cube in the same place for more than a minute its no contest. The Borg beam over and assimilate.

[POS Industries]

EXCEPTION: POS.

That seems all well and good. Really, there's only one flaw I can see. The borg never seemed to have very effective memory retention, in instances like that.

I mean, that may just be protagonist deus ex machina mumbo jumbo, but they still seemed to forget even the most general tactics and lose old adaptations over time. However, assuming that's not really something we want to count on, since there's no real explanation for it except "woo, protagonists", then yeah, that works.

Well, I don't know if it's so much a lack of memory retention as it is the fact that, for a collective hive-mind, the Borg are extremely fucking arrogant. They've got nigh-endless weapons covering the entire surface of their ships, adaptive shielding, regenerative ships, and has as about many drones on one cube as the population of my hometown. A single vessel can wipe out a whole starfleet and conquer a planet alone. They can afford to just attack straight on in nearly every case because a scan of the ships in front of them warranted just such an approach.

The only exception was Species 8472, who couldn't be scanned or assimilated and could break out a Death Star-type planetkiller attack in an instant. Now, the Borg couldn't deal with that at all, but Imperial technology is quite a bit behind something like the Federation, or even the Pakleds for that matter. Also, it takes a bit of time for the Death Star's weapon to target, charge up, and fire, which is long enough for the Borg to scan, adjust, and devise a strategy to combat it (EDIT: Like what Sith just said).

I mean, hell, it's just a big laser, right? That's so far behind Star Trek technology that Borg shields may just come automatically adapted to it.

By the way...in this fight betwixt the Borg Cube and the Death Star are we talking about destruction of one vessel == win?

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, even if the Death Star won the official fight, they'd eventually be taken down by the rest of the collective.

[Lumenskir]

Ness from Earthbound/Mother v. Mewtwo. Two characters that I cannot effectively use in SSB:M now enter the forum arena!

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

Well, I don't know if it's so much a lack of memory retention as it is the fact that, for a collective hive-mind, the Borg are extremely fucking arrogant. They've got nigh-endless weapons covering the entire surface of their ships, adaptive shielding, regenerative ships, and has as about many drones on one cube as the population of my hometown. A single vessel can wipe out a whole starfleet and conquer a planet alone. They can afford to just attack straight on in nearly every case because a scan of the ships in front of them warranted just such an approach.

This is true. And I started out thinking that, towards the end, they really shouldn't have kept underestimating the Federation, until I realized that the Federations great victories were against one cube. Of which the Collective has hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands.

The only exception was Species 8472, who couldn't be scanned or assimilated and could break out a Death Star-type planetkiller attack in an instant. Now, the Borg couldn't deal with that at all, but Imperial technology is quite a bit behind something like the Federation, or even the Pakleds for that matter. Also, it takes a bit of time for the Death Star's weapon to target, charge up, and fire, which is long enough for the Borg to scan, adjust, and devise a strategy to combat it (EDIT: Like what Sith just said).

Well, yeah, Species 8472 just had the Collective outgunned from every angle. They were really quite screwed. It was more an aspect of Species 8472 being, by design, just universally better than them at everything than any one, singular aspect.

I mean, hell, it's just a big laser, right? That's so far behind Star Trek technology that Borg shields may just come automatically adapted to it.
While this is true to an extent, you could always bring in that the Empire... well, the Republic, were far older than the Federation, and had the technology to span galaxies in what must be reasonable travel times, compared to the Federation's small portion in forever.

So, yeah, I wouldn't really count on the lasers = inferior argument. But, well, we just don't know. I mean, some sources credit to Imperial lasers literally impossible levels of power, though I wouldn't really count on them. Anyway, it's my instinct just to call the whole thing a wash, just to simplify everything, since the movies themselves don't really grant any greater insights than that they're about as powerful as everyone else.

Edit: Also, if the Borg are really overconfident, I doubt they'd randomly equip their geometric ships with immunity to things they shouldn't have to worry about anyway. But this is still realms of speculation.

However, considering what you and Sithdarth have said, I must reconsider my position. This seems like a win for the Collective... and a loss for everyone else.

[POS Industries]

This seems like a win for the Collective... and a loss for everyone else.

Yeah, I just can't imagine anything good coming out of the Borg walking away with a giant planet killing superweapon.

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

Yeah, I just can't imagine anything good coming out of the Borg walking away with a giant planet killing superweapon.
Or Hyperdrive, Superclones, and some manner of Evil Jedi with a mentioned (if stupid) biological cause... thing.

No, wait, I disagree, because that would make goddamn awesome movie.

[Sithdarth]

Yeah if Jedi Knight 2 taught us anything its that you can make people force sensitive. I mean sure it was horribly painful and potentially damaging but the Borg got that covered with their cybernetics. Imagine the horror if drones could beam over and just force lighting everything in their way.

[POS Industries]

Okay, that leads me to my latest idea: Vader of Borg versus a xenomorph alien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenomorph_%28Alien%29) that burst out of Yoda's chest. Go!

[Sithdarth]

Vader and here is why:

1) Borg super regeneration.

2) Jedi super regeneration.

3) Borg enhanced senses/reaction time.

4) Jedi enhanced senses/reaction time.

5) Lightsaber.

6) Borg Shielding.

7) Vader's high concentration of those force thingies.

8) The Borg's ability to potentially add more or replicate them with nanites.

9) Aforementioned, super attunement and channeling power combined with force speed and force lighting.

10) Total badassitude. I mean really I don't think anything could beat a Borg Jedi much less a Borged out Vader.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Come on now... a better fight would be the Zerg (Starcraft) versus the Borg (Star Trek).

I actually think the Borg would easily beat the Death Star. With the targeting system on Star Trek ships, they could nail that weak spot with little effort before the death gun could even fire. They could also hit warp every time the big gun fired and never get hit.

And Vader of Borg easily beats Yoda alien by virtue of Vader>Yoda and Borg>Alien.

How about Peter Petrelli (Heroes) versus Rogue?

[POS Industries]

How about Peter Petrelli (Heroes) versus Rogue?

Well, the obvious question is whether this is Rogue with Miss Marvel's powers but, honestly, it occured to me that Peter mimicking Rogue's powers would probably result in a cancellation of her own upon physical contact, given that they'd be draining the life out of each other at equal rates, resulting in the power being harmless for both of them.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure she'd just fuck him at that point. Everyone wins.

[Zilla]

okay, Borg vs Zerg in an assimilation race. They are allowed to assimilate each other.

So, really, it's the collective vs the Overmind. I think the Overmind would win this one, being CRAZILY psionically strong. But then again... the Terrans enslaved a young Overmind, so it may be possible yet for the Borg.

[Doc ock rokc]

im throwing this out there...hulk vs batman...

[Kroze Gamegod]

I must throw my two bits into this Borg Cube vs. Death Star battle...

You say that it still would not be able to fight against the Collective even if it did win, I say you are all wrong due to two minor things:
Thrawn and Sun Crusher

We are ignoring the instance of those pesky Rebels and their "Amazing" farmboy sharpshooter for this instance.... the Empire still has control of Sun Crusher and Thrawn can beat anything cause he is fucking Thrawn and is better then life itself...

He comes up with a masterwork plan to lure the collective near a sun and use the sun crusher...
Have the Death Star be nearby to pick off any survivors!
Borg couldn't adapt that quick!

Game, Set, Empire!

Ness from Earthbound/Mother v. Mewtwo. Two characters that I cannot effectively use in SSB:M now enter the forum arena!

Go watch the first Pokemon movie and then say that battle idea out loud to then know how stupidly short of a battle that would be and then come back here so we may all laugh at you!

I got a good one that ties into the past battles mentioned:

Borg vs. Replicators from SG-1?
Borg vs. Replicators from Atlantis?

[POS Industries]

I must throw my two bits into this Borg Cube vs. Death Star battle...

You say that it still would not be able to fight against the Collective even if it did win, I say you are all wrong due to two minor things:
Thrawn and Sun Crusher

We are ignoring the instance of those pesky Rebels and their "Amazing" farmboy sharpshooter for this instance.... the Empire still has control of Sun Crusher and Thrawn can beat anything cause he is fucking Thrawn and is better then life itself...

He comes up with a masterwork plan to lure the collective near a sun and use the sun crusher...
Have the Death Star be nearby to pick off any survivors!
Borg couldn't adapt that quick!

Game, Set, Empire!

Who and what are you talking about? I really don't think we can allow the expanded universe into this conversation.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Who and what are you talking about? I really don't think we can allow the expanded universe into this conversation.

Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight was brought up along with a few other things so I figured this was fair game...

The Sun Crusher is a ship that makes suns go supernova as seen when Kyp Durran stole it from the Maw instillation and went all dark side for a bit.

Grand Admiral Thrawn is a warlord and master planner...

Any other questions good sir?

[POS Industries]

Eh, I've been largely ignoring any non-canon sources on either side of the argument.

[Ogianres]

Borg vs Zerg:

Infantry battles -- This one would probably be given to the Borg. Although they can't/don't adapt to physical attacks, only energy-based ones, they would be torn to shreds/have their organic parts melted off by the Zerg. However, the Zerg base their attacks primarily on swarming the enemy. This is bad against the Borg, since they can just inject nanites into the zerg and assimilate them on the spot. That seventy control's worth of zerglings? All become assimilators for the borg, and it sets off a massive chain reaction, and the Borg nanites spread like a disease.

Ship battles -- I think that the Zerg would have an advantage similar to Species 8472, namely in that they would not likely be blocked by borg shields. Probably a couple dozen scourges would take down a cube in no time flat. Plus, there's nothing for the Borg to beam into, so their drones are worthless.

Assimilation/Infestation -- We know that the cerebrates can not be premanently killed except through Dark Templar energy. If they are killed by any other means, the Overmind (or Kerrigan maybe) would just reincarnate them, good as new. Dark Templar energy prevent this reincarnation process. However, this is the only extent of their immortality. They are completely susceptible to all kinds of attacks prior to reincarnation. Depending on the size of the collective, if a drone were to assimilate a cerebrate, they could take over. Suddenly the Borg have an entire brood under their control, which they would not doubt assimilate as soon as possible.
The Zerg can infest Terran Command Centers, as well as its inhabitants. I personally suspect that the infestation of the command center is simply the attatchment of small, biological structures woven into the metallic structure of the building, and in no way interacts with any of the more complicated parts. I don't think they can "infest" the cybernetic components of Borg drones, but I don't think they'd have much trouble infesting the biological components. Their method of infestation, however, has a fraction of the efficiency of the Borg's assimilation. Assimilating drones would most likely take too much effort and time when entire broods are being turned into drones.

Miscellaneous -- I think that Kerrigan might think of a way of channeling some sort of energy into drones and shorting them out or whatever, but on the macroscopic level, Borg nanites would spread like a plague. The Collective might obtain enough drones to actually tap into the mid of the Swarm, in which case it's just game over for the Zerg.

Results -- If the Zerg are able to take down every Borg ship that attempts to leave or enter a Zerg-controlled planet, or they manage to force the war entirely into space, they would win. Ultimately, however, the Borg's assimilation is their greatest weakness, and the Zerg would likely fall in droves, and the Borg may even be able to create Guardian, Devourer, and Mutalisk drones, capable of matching the Zerg in space. I give the Borg the win with 85% certainty.

EDIT: As for Borg vs Replicators, the Borg have no means of actually assimilating purely mechanical things, they learn about it and incorporate it into their designs. The Replicators, however, can replicate off of the Borg's cybernetic parts, and on Borg vessels themselves. Replicators win with 99% certainty.

[greed]

Go watch the first Pokemon movie and then say that battle idea out loud to then know how stupidly short of a battle that would be and then come back here so we may all laugh at you!

I'm not sure about this one, I mean we really never see what Ness can do( Earthbound not being big on the CG) and well he beats Gigyas, who's a few levels above anything in pokemon cept maybe Arceus. So while I'm not saying either way, I wouldn't rule Ness out, fighting inter-dimensional Lovecraftian evil and all.

[Sithdarth]

Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight was brought up along with a few other things so I figured this was fair game...

The Sun Crusher is a ship that makes suns go supernova as seen when Kyp Durran stole it from the Maw instillation and went all dark side for a bit.

Grand Admiral Thrawn is a warlord and master planner...

Any other questions good sir?

Really I didn't actually pull anything from Jedi Knight II aside from the fact that it was possible to create Jedi from previously force insensitive people. Further, Episode I tells us that microscopic crap in the body gives people force powers. Either one of them means Jedi can be artificially created through technology. Put together its two explicit example of how every Borg would become a Jedi if a Jedi was ever assimilated.

[IHateMakingNames]

Borg vs. Zerg was done before, and both are assimilating races. It would really come down to which hive mind is more powerful, since eventually the races would meld something together and both minds would be in contact. I figured an Overmind beats the overall hive mind of Borgs, but that's probably because I just don't like Borgs.


Mewtwo vs. Ness, I'd give it to Ness at the moment. The final boss of that game was a universe destroying entity of pure evil after all. However, some legendaries are basically Gods in Pokemon, and Mewtwo is the clone of one of them.


Matt Murdock(Daredevil) vs Phoenix Wright, Phoenix Wright easily. Nothing can beat his wacky antics in court.


Hulk vs. Batman, if we just go by their powers/abilities, Hulk smashes Batman into paste right away. I want to say Batman because it's Batman, any actual fight between them in a comic would be given to Batman. But then Wolverine would get to win against Lobo for the same reason.


I think I got all the mentioned vs. (I ignored those last few Borgs one because of my aforementioned hate of them).

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

EDIT: As for Borg vs Replicators, the Borg have no means of actually assimilating purely mechanical things, they learn about it and incorporate it into their designs.

Yes, they do. I can recall a couple times of Borg 'tubing' some console or something, leading to doom. DOOM!

And the most egregious case, where Seven's nanoprobes assimilated the doctor's one... projecty thingy. And then the Borg result also had a crapload of other advanced technology. I mean, that result's particularly insane, but there are a number of instances where Borg seem to be able to assimilate and control pure technology.


Really I didn't actually pull anything from Jedi Knight II aside from the fact that it was possible to create Jedi from previously force insensitive people. Further, Episode I tells us that microscopic crap in the body gives people force powers. Either one of them means Jedi can be artificially created through technology. Put together its two explicit example of how every Borg would become a Jedi if a Jedi was ever assimilated.
Any reasonably good doctor-type person, like Yawgmoth, could do horrible things with that.

Hell, I bet goddamn Julian Bashir could Jedi himself up if he knew these things.

Though, this brings up a thought. Yawgmoth versus the Borg.

Horrible, evil cyborg beings versus horrible, evil cyborg beings with magic and Yawgmoth on their side. The Borg can assimilate, but Yawgmoth can raise the dead among other super-awesome tricks that come with being a god.

The only thing that gets me, here, is that Yawgmoth can't really wage any kind of space battle, to my knowledge. So that probably screws him completely, unless he can trick the Borg into Phyrexia and have the plane itself drag them down... or something.

...god, I'm such a nerd.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

You know, I'll actually take an opposite stance on the Batman vs Hulk thing. Clearly in a fist-fighting situation, the Hulk would pound Batman into bat-pulp, but Batman doesn't always use his fighting skills to win.

So in reality, the Batman can win as long as he's fighting the classic Hulk. As Batman always knows how to exploit his opponents weaknesses, he'll quickly figure out a way using some sort of gas or something to calm the Hulk down, thereby transferring him back into Bruce Banner.

Batman may also stand a chance against the Grey Hulk, since that Hulk is significantly weaker and can be fought hand to hand and survive.

However, versus Merged Hulk (when Banner retains mental control) or the current Hulk (World War Hulk), Batman would get pasted.


In light of the current Transformer movies, how about the Autobots versus the Gundams from Gundam Wing?

[Ex. 68471]

In response to Fifth's earlier query, I present you with this.

Inigo Montoya(After he kills the six-fingered man) Vs. Zorro in a sword duel to the DEATH!!!

[Zilla]

I think that goes to Zorro because once Inigo has slain his father's killer, he no longer needs to retain his fighting finesse and has probably slackened his training. Then again, he IS the Dread Pirate Roberts, so who knows how much fighting and experience he'll get from that. Zorro, on the other hand, has a lot of practice in fighting Spaniards.

I gotta give it to Zorro here.

And we might as well change the name of the thread to "the Borg Versus ???"

[Redneck Scientist]

The Hulk VS Godzilla.

[ArlanKels]

Pfft.

The original Power Rangers versus any of their future incarnations.

[POS Industries]

The original Power Rangers versus any of their future incarnations.

That's basically "whoever loses, Tommy wins".

[Doc ock rokc]

i got another one deadpool(who puts the laughter in manslaughter) vs batman...BEGIN!!

[Fifthfiend]

Pfft.

The original Power Rangers versus any of their future incarnations.

Yea verily do I invoke the name of Piven the Wise:

"It doesn't matter who wins, cause they're all losers."

i got another one deadpool(who puts the laughter in manslaughter) vs batman...BEGIN!!

Deadpool would annoy Batman into a state of rage such that he would break his oath against murder, only to be further enraged when he finds that Deadpool simply refuses to die.

[ArlanKels]

At what point in the continuinity of Deadpool are we talking about?

[Fifthfiend]

Well, I was thinking circa Liefeld.

Batman would be like "You are plainly a recolored and poorly drawn knockoff of my DC-universe's Deathstroke! Just looking at your nonsensical anatomy fills me with a rage that can only satisfied by rending you limb from misshapen limb!"

[ArlanKels]

Yeah, but Batman could easily thrash the heck out of Deadpool when his powers crap out on him.



Oh oh ohohohhohoh! OH!
Oh?
ohhh.


~ Energizer Bunny ~
----- vs ------
~ Easter Bunny(Lobo continuinity) ~

[Magus]

Well Borg Vader versus a singular Alien obviously goes to Vader, but as we have seen, whenever the Alien race meets another race, the Aliens always end up winning, even when they lose (I'm quoting Alien Versus Predator on this one, as terrible as it was).

So while the Borg are good at assimilating the Aliens, in doing so they would undoubtedly be infected with the parasite--leading to eventual Borg extinction. Their ability to copy technology does nothing in the face of the Alien.

This actually makes me want to see Star Trek plot where the Federation pursues this very plan to finally take down the Borg but it backfires in some way (i.e. everyone gets infected with parasites, human and Borg).

Batman could beat the Hulk, unless we're talking about oldschool Hulk with sonic-boom clapping, gigantic leaps, and Bruce Banner intelligence eventually. Batman would possibly be wily enough to entrap or trick the Hulk but I would probably bet on the Hulk in that situation. If we're talking, like, any of the wussy Hulks then it's Batman all the way.

The same goes for Batman versus Deadpool, Batman wins, I don't care if it involves tricking Deadpool into falling into a volcano where he is continuously burnt to death for eternity, negating his regenerative powers, or is trapped and chained in some sort of sealed room in the Bat Cave for the rest of eternity.

[Sithdarth]

Well Borg Vader versus a singular Alien obviously goes to Vader, but as we have seen, whenever the Alien race meets another race, the Aliens always end up winning, even when they lose (I'm quoting Alien Versus Predator on this one, as terrible as it was).

So while the Borg are good at assimilating the Aliens, in doing so they would undoubtedly be infected with the parasite--leading to eventual Borg extinction. Their ability to copy technology does nothing in the face of the Alien.

Except the Borg would just kill the parasites with nanites if they can even be infected that is. Remember Borg have very little residual internal organs left aside from maybe a heart. They don't have lungs or a stomach so there isn't much for the thing to feed on. Plus even if it did burst out of a Borg the Borg would just heal/repair itself and then kill/assimilate the alien.

Edit: And that's not even mentioning Force enhanced super Borg running around with force speed and killing things/dodging face huggers long before any reaction by the Aliens is possible.

[Lumenskir]

The same goes for Batman versus Deadpool, Batman wins, I don't care if it involves tricking Deadpool into falling into a volcano where he is continuously burnt to death for eternity, negating his regenerative powers, or is trapped and chained in some sort of sealed room in the Bat Cave for the rest of eternity.
...So, is every potential Versus involving Batman going to devolve into "Batman plans for teh win!" without extra consideration for things like overwhelming physical strength or supernatural powers? I remember reading a webcomic about how stupid the "Batman v. Superman" argument was (I think Superman went so far as to drive the Earth into the Sun), but I can't recall the comic for linkage.

Also, a lot of the fights I've been thinking up exhaust themselves at the concept (So although I'd like to enter "Mythbusters v. Bill Nye/Mr. Wizard teamup", I know there'd be no discussion).

In honor of the new Transformers movie and the upcoming J.J. Abrams-produced Godzilla v. Voltron movie...

Optimus Prime v. Voltron. I'm not sure about the size differential, so let's assume they get equalized at the start.

[Fifthfiend]

...So, is every potential Versus involving Batman going to devolve into "Batman plans for teh win!" without extra consideration for things like overwhelming physical strength or supernatural powers?

What are you, dense or something? He's the Goddamn Batman!

I remember reading a webcomic about how stupid the "Batman v. Superman" argument was (I think Superman went so far as to drive the Earth into the Sun), but I can't recall the comic for linkage.

http://www.biggercheese.com/comics/0608.png

Hahahahaha

http://www.biggercheese.com/comics/0609.png

Hahahahahahahahaha

[Demetrius]

Adam West Batman vs. Micheal Keaton Batman! Yeah, I gone and said it!

[Fifthfiend]

Adam West pulls out his Anti-Batman Repellent Bat-Spray.

[Tendronai]

Adam West does the Bat-dance, and Keaton retreats in shame.

[Sithdarth]

Adam West pulls out his Anti-Batman Repellent Bat-Spray.

Lets just hope the wind doesn't blow any back into his face. Though I suppose that might be interesting to watch.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Adam West pulls out his Anti-Batman Repellent Bat-Spray.


nothing can top the Sprays.

[ArlanKels]

I dare you all to figure this one out:

The Tin Man Cast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_Man_%28TV_miniseries%29)
Versus
The Firefly Cast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_%28TV_series%29)

[Dark Seraphim]

Battle of the Plot Armored: Hellsing's Alucard v Squirrel Girl

My guess is that they emerge with no permenant damage, but England/The General Midwest Area gets destroyed.

And Squirrel Girl learns how to control rodent ghouls.

[Zilla]

What is Squirrel Girl? And nothing beats Alucard.

[POS Industries]

What is Squirrel Girl?

Squirrel Girl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_Girl) is among the most ridiculous superheroes ever created by Marvel, a mutant with both squirrel-like qualities and the power to communicate with and control common tree squirrels. She is the Aquaman of the rodent kingdom, essentially.

Her ability to summon forth and command an army of squirrels allowed her to overwhelm and defeat Dr. Doom and rescue Iron Man from his clutches. Given the fact that any fight she's in could simply be resolved by positing that she commands a bajillion squirrels to overwhelm her opponent makes her reasonably qualified to be never used in a versus thread.

[Zilla]

Alucard could kill as many as she summons and make the whole species extinct and then some.

Hell, Alucard could easily take out Superman and Batman. Together. On a team.

And possibly the whole Collective.

[POS Industries]

Yeah, he's got a lot of powers, but I think I may have found his match:

Alucard versus Boredom.

EDIT: Okay, that may have been a bit harsh. Still, a main protagonist who, from the outset of the series, is just easily more powerful in every way to any opposition he faces just doesn't leave much for exciting conflict and development of narrative, in my opinion.

So, to move on, let's go with.... Morph vs. The Joker

[Mirai Gen]

Alucard could kill as many as she summons and make the whole species extinct and then some.

Hell, Alucard could easily take out Superman and Batman. Together. On a team.

And possibly the whole Collective.
Well Alucard has magic, and it's been a tried-and-true way to kill Supes is to have magic. Just cast "Soul Steal" and laugh at the results. Or better yet, the Shield Rod. Oh the hilarity!

And I'd like to see Batman pull out a third edition rulebook and attempt to cast Dispel Magic to counterspell it.

Also:

[Ugainius]

Seeing as its been a page since the last "Borg Vs" I'm going to go with......

Borg vs Necrons

EDIT: As a side note; this thread has given me nightmares about Dual screened Planet Killers from Japan

[ArlanKels]

Yeah, he's got a lot of powers, but I think I may have found his match:

Alucard versus Boredom.

EDIT: Okay, that may have been a bit harsh. Still, a main protagonist who, from the outset of the series, is just easily more powerful in every way to any opposition he faces just doesn't leave much for exciting conflict and development of narrative, in my opinion.

So, to move on, let's go with.... Morph vs. The Joker


Surely you jest.

If this is the Morph that has the powers of whomever he morphs into then we're talking about one easily defeated Joker, as Morph could become someone like X-Man.

[Redneck Scientist]

Are we talking about Castlevania Alucard or Hellsing Alucard? I'd give it to Alucard both ways.

[Mirai Gen]

Morph is more comparable to Plastic Man than...Mystique, for example.

[Fifthfiend]

If this is the Morph that has the powers of whomever he morphs into then we're talking about one easily defeated Joker, as Morph could become someone like X-Man.

You're getting your characters crossed. Morph just changes shape (in any incarnation of which I am aware), power-Xerox dude is um... fuck I forget his Mutant Name, his first name's Calvin? (EDIT AFTER LOOKUP: Mimic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimic_%28comics%29#Exiles), that's the dude.) Whatever but yeah, totally different dude from Morph, who pretty much specializes in extremely silly shapeshifting.

Actually what would be a really good matchup, would be Morph and Plastic Man.

Lets just hope the wind doesn't blow any back into his face.

Then he pulls out his Anti Anti-Batman-Repellent-Bat-Spray Spray

[Zilla]

X-wing (StarWars) vs Arwing (StarFox).

I'll wait for someone else to elaborate before tainting with my own opinions.

[TopHatAssassin]

The Arwing, as it would do a barrel roll and use the boost to chase.
In all seriousness though, the Arwing relies solely on its pilot to do all the flying and shooting, whereas the X-wing has a pilot and a droid, thusly enhancing the tactical capabilities of the ship.
Both ships, as far as I know, are pretty equally armed (lasers and missiles/bombs). Really, I suppose it would all come down to who can fly their ship better and get the shots in first.
I'd have to go with the Arwing, though. It seems far more able to handle tight turns and everything than an X-wing.

[Fifthfiend]

The Arwing, as it would do a barrel roll

"I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!"

[ArlanKels]

Plastic Man should be barred from the fights on grounds of Immortality, nigh indestructability and he can basically do anything he wants with his body whatsoever, including making moving complicated parts.


Appearantly when I saw Morph using super-strength in one of the cartoons, along with Omega Red's tentacles, I got my pickles confused as to the extent of his powers.

[Fifthfiend]

I think he actually can enhance his own strength to some degree by like, adding muscle mass or just general mass of whatever in hell he's made of, or whatever, but far short of the point where he can make himself look like the Hulk and then all of a sudden he's as strong as the Hulk.

Plastic Man should be barred from the fights on grounds of Immortality, nigh indestructability and he can basically do anything he wants with his body whatsoever, including making moving complicated parts.

I consider the Morph v. Plas fight fairly well matched on the grounds that such a contest would never be decided on raw power, but rather which was capable of out-sillying the other. It would be like You Got Served*, except instead of street-kid breakdancing, shapeshifting comic relief.



*Alternately: Roll Bounce.

[Skyshot]

I consider the Morph v. Plas fight fairly well matched on the grounds that such a contest would never be decided on raw power, but rather which was capable of out-sillying the other. It would be like Bring It On*, except instead of street-kid breakdancing, shapeshifting comic relief.Ahem.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5204/plasticmandn4.jpg

Now, what was that about anyone beating Plastic Man at anything?

[POS Industries]

That's all well and good, but look here:

http://www.thefourthrail.com/images/reviews/070504/exiles49.jpg

See that? That's from when Morph beat The Impossible Man, who is essentially Mr. Mxyzptlk as he appears in the Marvel universe.

And that toilet thing? Yeah, Morph's base form is actually a liquid state. Even if flushed, he'd go straight through Plastic Man if he did that cute little toilet trick. And, I mean, c'mon:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/ryokalono/comics/captainmisguided01.jpg

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/3/38/MorphExile.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5117/exiles96solicithf0.jpg

And finally....

http://associazioni.monet.modena.it/glamaz/comicsengine/comics_html/marvel/xtreme_x-men/cover_originali/exiles11.jpg

Morph wins.

[ArlanKels]

but what could Morph do to Plastic Man?

Absolutely nothing.

Eventually plastic man would find something that would beat Morph.

[POS Industries]

If Hyperion couldn't kill Morph, I don't see how Plastic Man's gonna do it. Hell, the whole point of the more recent House of M Proteus arc was that Morph was the perfect host for Proteus because his body couldn't be completely used up like anyone else.

At best for Plastic Man, it would be a draw.

But no, seriously, if it were a contest of who could out-silly the other (as Fifth suggested), then it goes to Morph, hands down.

[ArlanKels]

Out-silly...yeah, Morph would win. I've seen silly from Plastic Man but he doesn't compare to Morph's crazy.
Unless if we're talking about crazy Plastic Man from Miller's storyline...

[Fifthfiend]

http://associazioni.monet.modena.it/glamaz/comicsengine/comics_html/marvel/xtreme_x-men/cover_originali/exiles11.jpg

Morph wins.

You brought this on yourself.

http://factory.canadianshack.net/scans_daily/barda_dress1.jpg

http://factory.canadianshack.net/scans_daily/barda_dress2.jpg

That's right - you suckers just got served.

[Mirai Gen]

Damn it, I was going to post that!

Yeah Plastic Man is about ten times better than any shapeshifter in any other comic continuity, just 'cause he's got the awesome track record.

[ArlanKels]

Well I'm reading the Spawn vs Batman, Frank Miller(I think) written comic...

And it got me to wondering.


Spawn vs Superman(DCAU version)

[Seil]

Adam West pulls out his Anti-Batman Repellent Bat-Spray.

Batman fends off shark! (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1765962)

[Skyshot]

The Borg versus Doomsday.

[Sithdarth]

Ok here's one:

Bruce Willis as John McClane ala the Die Hard films Vs Bruce Willis as David Dunn ala Unbreakable.

[Lumenskir]

As much as I was bored to tears by Unbreakable, McClane doesn't really have an out against somebody who's a lot stronger and unaffected by any available means of attack, unless they're fighting on a really small platform in the middle of an ocean.

[Sithdarth]

Well it doesn't exactly have to be all that much water and McClane is a wily one. I'm pretty sure a car would at least move Dunn. Also, I got the impression Dunn was only slightly above the upper limits of highly trained body builders. People fight against much stronger opponents all the time. As long as they don't have mountain crushing power its certainly not impossible.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Also, I got the impression Dunn was only slightly above the upper limits of highly trained body builders.


I think its because he hadn't really pushed himself. In theory, he could get much stronger after some training just because he doesn't really have any limits to his endurance. Dunn could likely be Captain America level of stength and beyond after a bit of working out.

That being said, I'd still give the fight to McClane. Dunn wasn't all that smart.

[Redneck Scientist]

That gives me an idea.
Bruce Willis (McClane) VS Bruce Campbell (Ash).
That would be the best movie ever.

[Lumenskir]

...and McClane is a wily one.
That being said, I'd still give the fight to McClane. Dunn wasn't all that smart.
Now, having recently watched 3 of the 4 available Die Hard canon movies, I'm missing where McClane revealed his wisdom. At most I'd say he's action hero clever, what with his elevator escapades and fuel dumps and such, but he's by no means supremely clever. The only area he truly beats Dunn is realizing when he's being duped (OH SHT SPOILERS!!!?), but even McClane spends a few minutes believing the impostors. Of course, since there are only two combatants, and both rely on brute force, smarts doesn't wouldn't play too large a role methinks.
Well it doesn't exactly have to be all that much water...I'm pretty sure a car would at least move Dunn.
Well now we're warping the environment to suit one combatant. Why wouldn't Dunn get to the car first, with his increased body strength? How much water is involved, like a pool's worth (I'm going to assume that McClane's craftiness allows him to deduce Dunn's aquaphobia), or are they near a lake?
Also, I got the impression Dunn was only slightly above the upper limits of highly trained body builders. People fight against much stronger opponents all the time. As long as they don't have mountain crushing power its certainly not impossible.
Even if we ignore his enhanced strength, his main attribute is sheer invincibility. McClane may be a crackshot, but all the headshots in the world mean bupkes if your opponent just shrugs them off. McClane could try and wrestle them both closer to the water source, but he would have to deal with an opponent who feels no pain.

I mean, McClane has the better average movie quality, but Dunn wins in a straight on fight.

[ArlanKels]

Well it doesn't exactly have to be all that much water and McClane is a wily one. I'm pretty sure a car would at least move Dunn. Also, I got the impression Dunn was only slightly above the upper limits of highly trained body builders. People fight against much stronger opponents all the time. As long as they don't have mountain crushing power its certainly not impossible.


Dunn brushed off getting in a car accident and subsequently ripped open the car door to get his girlfriend out of the vehicle.



He is literally unbreakable. I'm quite interested in if the parents knew of this during the childhood, given that they would've been unable to take blood for normal procedures.

However, as he is unbreakable, as in he can't get hurt, he could subsequently lift anything, so long as he put the mental strength into it. This is demonstrated in the weight lifting segment of Unbreakable, wherein more weight than he could possibly structurally handle given his muscular limits were placed upon his weight lifting bar, and he managed to lift it.

This is because his muscles won't tear. His bones won't break. His skin won't be cut or bruised. He can't even get sick. The only thing that gives him a problem is water. And that's only when it's inhaled.


Borg vs Doomsday would have to go to the Borg. They'd assimilate him or teleport him into a star and leave him to roast in zero G.

[Skyshot]

Borg vs Doomsday would have to go to the Borg. They'd assimilate him or teleport him into a star and leave him to roast in zero G.I was thinking it would be a contest of who could out-adapt who, but whatever works.

(Also, wouldn't a star have a whole lot of gravity?)

[Lumenskir]

(Also, wouldn't a star have a whole lot of gravity?)
Uhm...yes? Does Doomsday get power from gravity or something (his Wikipedia article doesn't even contain the word gravity)?

Also, IHMN's point about the Borg's is getting infectious. They're like Batman fights, except 'planning' gets replaced by 'assimilation'.

Anyways, because I've been reading some old manga and such...

Jin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Samurai_Champloo_characters#Jin) of Samurai Champloo v. Ogami Ittō of Lone Wolf and Cub (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_and_cub).

For a setup, assume that both have their standard weapons, and that wee little Daigoro is outside of danger and just being cute somewhere.

[Sithdarth]

Actually the car crash and the train wreck both demonstrate that with enough applied force you can knock Dunn unconscious. Hitting with a car or a high velocity bullet to the head would produce nearly identical forces to those two events. So it is conceivably possible for McClain to knock him out and then drag him to some water.

[Archibald]

Hmm.. Megazord (The first I guess) vs. Optimus prime

[Mirai Gen]

Do I even have to answer that question?

The Megazord is a big clumsy robot suit. It moves so slowly I'm surprised whatever super-sized badguy actually doesn't get very many hits in. Prime would flatline that thing in a heartbeat.

Actually, on the subject, are we talking G1 Optimus Prime, Armada Optimus Prime, Movie Optimus Prime, or Optimus Primal?

There's differences.

[Archibald]

But the megazord always wins ><

No, really, If the megazord detached it would be 5 against 1. Might stand a chance.

[Lumenskir]

The Megazord is a big clumsy robot suit. It moves so slowly I'm surprised whatever super-sized badguy actually doesn't get very many hits in. Prime would flatline that thing in a heartbeat.

Actually, on the subject, are we talking G1 Optimus Prime, Armada Optimus Prime, Movie Optimus Prime, or Optimus Primal?
First off, I think comparing a cartoon/CGI creation to a guy literally in a cumbersome robot suit is a tad unfair. Of course Optimus Prime always looks and appears faster, animation allows for things that would normally be bulky to move with a silky smoothness.

For fairness, how about comparing Movie Prime v. Movie Megazord? Both are then big robots presented to us using CGI. Now, I think Optimus would still have the speed advantage, but the Megazord is no longer a lumbering collection of boxy animal shapes. However, because the Megazord is composed of about five different entities each about the size of a car or truck, I think it would have the mass/strength advantage. (I really have no true evidence to back this up, but the Megazord does seem like a bruiser.)

Both have swords, both have guns, BUT, only the Megazord has a kill move, which I think the fight would boil down to. Do we allow the final strike to be used, and if so would it be an instant KO for the 'Zord?

[ArlanKels]

Actually the car crash and the train wreck both demonstrate that with enough applied force you can knock Dunn unconscious. Hitting with a car or a high velocity bullet to the head would produce nearly identical forces to those two events. So it is conceivably possible for McClain to knock him out and then drag him to some water.


how would McClain know about the weakness, though? It's not like McClain investigates the weaknesses of his opponents(ala Batman).
And I doubt Dunn would go running around going "I AM WEAK TO WATER AHHH WEAK TO WAATAAHHH"

And don't forget, he was temporarily disoriented when he landed on the pool from a second-floor fall, so yeah while he can't get permanently hurt he can quite readily get knocked unconcious. Obviously unconciousness has to be a possibility given that he has to be able to sleep...


The megazord is kind of..um..
Larger than Optimus. Significantly so...

[Zilla]

Perhaps a more even match for Optimus would be a Gundam?

Let's say... Zero-One from Mobile Suit Gundam Wing.

[Mirai Gen]

First off, I think comparing a cartoon/CGI creation to a guy literally in a cumbersome robot suit is a tad unfair. Of course Optimus Prime always looks and appears faster, animation allows for things that would normally be bulky to move with a silky smoothness.

For fairness, how about comparing Movie Prime v. Movie Megazord? Both are then big robots presented to us using CGI. Now, I think Optimus would still have the speed advantage, but the Megazord is no longer a lumbering collection of boxy animal shapes. However, because the Megazord is composed of about five different entities each about the size of a car or truck, I think it would have the mass/strength advantage. (I really have no true evidence to back this up, but the Megazord does seem like a bruiser.)

Both have swords, both have guns, BUT, only the Megazord has a kill move, which I think the fight would boil down to. Do we allow the final strike to be used, and if so would it be an instant KO for the 'Zord?
I suppose in the aspect of Optimus Prime, despite being really big, is still just a regular car, and the Megazord is composed of whatever-this-season's-theme-is.

But, the real question:

Megazord vs Devastator/Defensor/Menasor/Bruticus/Superion or any other Combiner? That'd be an interesting fight.

[Kroze Gamegod]

You guys all fail at thinking up a good fight for Megazord...
Here is one that would be interesting:
Voltron Vs. Megazord

[Sithdarth]

how would McClain know about the weakness, though? It's not like McClain investigates the weaknesses of his opponents(ala Batman).
And I doubt Dunn would go running around going "I AM WEAK TO WATER AHHH WEAK TO WAATAAHHH"

Well after a double tap to the head does nothing but knock him out its fairly obvious something is wrong. From there McClain could run the gamut of damage types trying to find something that would work. Sooner or later McClain would have to arrive at the fact suffocation is the only way Dunn is going to die. It really doesn't matter how it happens as long as its suffocation. And really after McClain puts him you with a gun shot to the head its not to hard to keep him that way. Though that's assuming McClain doesn't do something stupid like tie him up and try to interrogate Dunn.

[Sesshoumaru]

I haven't read through the whole thing yet, so this might already have been mentioned but...

Vash the Stampede vs Train Heartnet (manga version)

[ArlanKels]

Well after a double tap to the head does nothing but knock him out its fairly obvious something is wrong. From there McClain could run the gamut of damage types trying to find something that would work. Sooner or later McClain would have to arrive at the fact suffocation is the only way Dunn is going to die. It really doesn't matter how it happens as long as its suffocation. And really after McClain puts him you with a gun shot to the head its not to hard to keep him that way. Though that's assuming McClain doesn't do something stupid like tie him up and try to interrogate Dunn.


Well, you're assuming that McClain can keep fighting for an indefinite amount of time until he can deduce that Dunn is incapable of properly handling water when it's introduced to his breathing system.

Personally I think an ex-Quarterback now Security Officer who still works out would be capable of winning before then.

[Fifthfiend]

Megazord Vs. Prime

One factor decides this battle - transformation length.

Basically every Megazord victory relies on its opponent standing around and like, having a cigarette or whatever the fuck for the fifteen minutes it takes the Zord to complete its transformation. Optimus would be like "Not a sentient being? You don't have the right to jack shit," and punch it full of laser-gun holes before it managed to get half its limbs attached.

Well, you're assuming that McClain can keep fighting for an indefinite amount of time until he can deduce that Dunn is incapable of properly handling water when it's introduced to his breathing system.

Well yeah, that's basically what John MacClane (or however it's spelled) does, gets the shit beat out of him over and over and over again and just keeps on going until he finally wins.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I think pitting poor old John against a guy who is you know, unbreakable, is a tad unfair, so let's redress the balance slightly.

John McClain vs. Jack Bauer.

[Rygar]

John McClain vs. Jack Bauer.

Is this Jack Bauer before or after the 16 personal tradgedies and 2 moles that are required per season?
If it is, then he'd have more of a "I don't care anymore. I just wanna kill you and go sleep until terrorists attack again." thing going on.

[Sithdarth]

Well once Dunn is knock out it isn't all that hard to try several different ways to kill him. Further it doesn't even have to be water. A pillow over his head after you hit him with a claymore mine should do the trick.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Let's go with 1st season Jack, before the convoluted plot twists and multiple backstabs and betrayals of the next half a dozen seasons.

EDIT: Well once Dunn is knock out it isn't all that hard to try several different ways to kill him. Further it doesn't even have to be water. A pillow over his head after you hit him with a claymore mine should do the trick.

No, it is quite clearly stated that it is only water that can suffocate him, nothing else, as he swallows it too fast and panics whilst submerged in it. Simply stuffing his mouth with a gag or something along those lines wouldn't kill him, only water.

[ArlanKels]

Bauer versus McClain is unfair. McClain shoots to kill with little remorse, as he's been forced to become lethal due to the massive amounts of bad stuff happening to him.

Season 1 Bauer is still optimistic, at least at some subconcious level, and so won't pull the trigger as fast as McClain would, he'd probably try to take McClain alive...which no sane person can do.

[Sithdarth]

No, it is quite clearly stated that it is only water that can suffocate him, nothing else, as he swallows it too fast and panics whilst submerged in it. Simply stuffing his mouth with a gag or something along those lines wouldn't kill him, only water.

1) It is not stated that water is the only thing that can kill him. Its stated that water scares him and he reacts the same as anyone else does to it.

2) Every other piece of evidence suggests the internal structure of Dunn is exactly the same as any other person. Aside from the not getting damaged part.

3) If the guy needs to eat to live and has blood he needs oxygen pure and simple. Without nothing would function he brain would die and we know is brain isn't quite as unbreakable as he is because he can be knocked out.

I mean seriously its absolutely absurd to think Dunn would somehow magically survive if you kicked him out the air lock of the Space Shuttle because his bones don't break and his skin and muscles don't tear.

[Fifthfiend]

So here's one:

Harry Potter versus Wolverine in a fight to the death.

I figure whoever loses, I win.

[Tendronai]

Harry starts to cast something, he fails, Wolverine adds some titanium to Harry's skull.

I figure whoever loses, I win.

The entire universe wins.

[Archbio]

Well after a double tap to the head does nothing but knock him out its fairly obvious something is wrong. From there McClain could run the gamut of damage types trying to find something that would work.

Assuming McClain does get the first shot and does shoot Dunn in the head, knocking him out, McClain would assume Dunn was dead. I certainly can't see him deducing that Dunn is bulletproof fast enough to restrain what should be by all rights a cadaver and mount some kind of grotesque, unMcClainesque series of test.

Advantage Dunn.

[Fifthfiend]

Harry starts to cast something, he fails, Wolverine adds some titanium to Harry's skull.

I dunno, I kind of figure Harry's power of Deus Ex Machina has to count for something. Like maybe Harry tries to cast something, fails horribly at it like he fails horribly at everything, Wolverine lunges while Harry stands there like a deer in Death's own headlights, and then Wolverine for absolutely no reason whatsoever decides to decapitate himself with his own claws. And then everyone shows up to congratulate Harry and tell him what a totally great wizard he is.

[Sithdarth]

Assuming McClain does get the first shot and does shoot Dunn in the head, knocking him out, McClain would assume Dunn was dead. I certainly can't see him deducing that Dunn is bulletproof fast enough to restrain what should be by all rights a cadaver and mount some kind of grotesque, unMcClainesque series of test.

Dunn actually recovers fairly quickly from a knock out. I mean he got up in less than a minute of the car crash and a bullet would be slightly less impact wise. Further I don't care who you are if you shoot someone in the head and two very specific things don't happen you go to check out what went wrong. Namely if there isn't a crap load of blood gushing from his entrance wound and the guys brains don't end up decorating everything behind him it pretty clearly indicates he ain't dead. After than McClain would probably fire a few more shots into him before it sank in that they were hurting the guy at all. After that its up to who is the better brawler/tactician. A sleeper hold for instance should kill Dunn by pressing the arteries in his neck closed. (And yes this could happen because if they weren't flexible enough to be pushed closed then Dunn wouldn't be able to turn his neck.) We already know that a normal human can at least put up a decent fight against Dunn, he isn't Superman or the Hulk.

Also, a secondary point. The train wreck put Dunn out for long enough for him to be cut out of wreckage and transported to a hospital. I doubt the forces where that much greater than his car crash. Given that there were fires in the area I posit that he inhaled some smoke and partially asphyxiated knocking himself out much like that almost drowning.

[Tendronai]

The Deus Ex thing can't really hold out against Wolverine, though. Wolverine wouldn't be able to sever his own head before his regeneration kicked in and kept it attached. So, we have Wolverine charge Harry, trip, and kill himself with his claws. He then regenerates, stands up, looks out for that rock he tripped over, and kills Harry.

[Lumenskir]

If outside interference was allowed during the match, I'd say Wolverine might be right and truly fucked. Harry's exhausted his personal supply of Dues Ex Machina, but all of his friends are more than capable of picking up the slack. Harry has gotten himself into some situations where he would have been five kinds of dead on his lonesome, but all of his wizarding pals show up out of nowhere (or nowhen) to save the day, then give Harry all of the credit.

Without friends, and a match of X-Men v. Hogwarts might be cool to watch, Harry is fucked. He might, like, stun Wolverine, but he can't bring himself to kill his enemy even if it were possible. Wolvie wins.

[POS Industries]

Vash the Stampede vs Train Heartnet (manga version)

Vash. I mean, because you can't really kill Vash. Train can die pretty much just like anyone else. This is, of course, assuming that Vash is willing to kill Train. If not, draw.

Eve, on the other hand, might give Vash a run for his money.

[IHateMakingNames]

You should always assume the combatants are willing to kill (Even if they don't from their source), or assume incapacitation is also a win condition. Otherwise people like Vash can never win because they will never kill.

Also, Megazord beats Optimus due to size and power differences. Though if it has to form, Optimus can destroy one of the body parts first, because those things are useless.

Voltron beats Megazord because it's just better, plus it's body parts can actually do things.

[ArlanKels]

But...the mastodon can shoot snow from it's trunk!

[Archbio]

Dunn actually recovers fairly quickly from a knock out. I mean he got up in less than a minute of the car crash and a bullet would be slightly less impact wise.

You were kind of arguing otherwise earlier.

A sleeper hold for instance should kill Dunn by pressing the arteries in his neck closed.

That's kind of what didn't work in the film, or something approaching.

As for the notion that McClain would know that Dunn wasn't dead: even if it was certain he would (and it's not), he'd probably attribute it to him missing rather than Dunn being a freak of nature. So then, to prevent Dunn from getting the upper hand, he'd have to shoot him in the head again while he was down. Otherwise, then he would have no means of being sure Dunn was actually dead, and Dunn wouldn't be affected.

Again, Dunn can try to put the drop on McClain. Advantage Dunn.

It seems even more likely that McClain wouldn't shoot him in the head to begin with, and then almost certainly think Dunn is dead.

I really don't see the certain upper hand, and I think the fact that McClain has been portrayed as falling for the kind of thing that are part of Dunn's edge in his own film (being saved by his sidekick) really speaks against McClain as super-thorough-perceptive-scientist-killer.

Edit: They're both something of one trick ponies, combat wise, so that might be why this seems either grotesque or boring.

[ArlanKels]

Dunn was never put in a sleeperhold in the movie.
He did put the sleeperhold on someone, however. This is where his advantage in a fight was shown, because the guy couldn't get him off.
And they showed a REALISTIC sleeperhold, one of those "This guy is thrashing for a good minute to two minutes before collapsing".

All Dunn would have to do is put McCain in said sleeperhold and he'd win, because he simply does not let go, even when being smashed hard against walls/etc.


Dunn can be killed by a lack of oxygen, however, as that's not "breaking" him at all. It's depriving.

[Archbio]

He did put the sleeperhold on someone, however. This is where his advantage in a fight was shown, because the guy couldn't get him off.
And they showed a REALISTIC sleeperhold, one of those "This guy is thrashing for a good minute to two minutes before collapsing".

I can't understand why I remembered that scene the other way around. It's a very effective scene.

Dunn can be killed by a lack of oxygen

I'd note that it wasn't really established that it wasn't the water itself, and that it wouldn't make much less sense, but pretty much, I think.

[Sithdarth]

You were kind of arguing otherwise earlier.

No I was arguing that a bullet would knock him out and that when he started waking up again McClain could just you know shoot him again. There are these magic things called clips that people put into guns and they magically allow you to shoot more than once.


As for the notion that McClain would know that Dunn wasn't dead: even if it was certain he would (and it's not), he'd probably attribute it to him missing rather than Dunn being a freak of nature. So then, to prevent Dunn from getting the upper hand, he'd have to shoot him in the head again while he was down. Otherwise, then he would have no means of being sure Dunn was actually dead, and Dunn wouldn't be affected.


I mean seriously have you ever fired a gun. You know if you miss and if you don't. For one bullets make a hell of a sound when the hit and go through something remotely hard. When they hit something and stop dead its rather loud. Also, its pretty hard to think you missed when the guy stagger and.or falls over especially combined with the sound of a bullet stopping dead and flattening out on his skull.

Further, Dunn demonstrated his actually not that great of a fighter and even then superior strength does not alone give him the victory. I mean sure after the initial bullet McClain would probably walk up closer but probably not within actual arms reach. Especially if he suspected something fishy because of that very loud sound the bullet made, the lack of blood and brain, and Dunn doing all the things people generally do when disoriented.

Again, Dunn can try to put the drop on McClain. Advantage Dunn.

It seems even more likely that McClain wouldn't shoot him in the head to begin with, and then almost certainly think Dunn is dead.

I really don't see the certain upper hand, and I think the fact that McClain has been portrayed as falling for the kind of thing that are part of Dunn's edge in his own film (being saved by his sidekick) really speaks against McClain as super-thorough-perceptive-scientist-killer.

McClain might be a little gullible but he's killed enough people to release something was wrong. He might not immediately put it together but he'd know something was wrong as soon as he shot Dunn. Even if he did immediately assume Dunn was dead and walked away that doesn't automatically give Dunn the win. Dunn doesn't strike me as a very silent man and is likely to be less quite when getting up with a mild concussion.

(Here is the more I was talking about.)
This fight is less about the brute strength of both characters and more about what they've demonstrated as strengths and weaknesses. McClain is a bit of a planner and problem solver. Now most of his plans are down spur of the moment but there is logic and thought to them. This gives him the opportunity to eventually figure a way to kill Dunn. After all if there is one thing McClain is good at figuring out its how to kill people when the odds are against him and how to survive the impossible.

This is contrasted by Dunn's unique ability to survive basically all the conventional methods McClain might try. Which is basically his only strength aside from touch telepathy. He's not a planner and doesn't seem especially bright. If anything he's a good deal more gullible than McClain. So the fight is almost down to luck. Its basically thus, would Dunn get lucky and get his hands on McClain or will McClain get lucky and accidentally knock Dunn into some water.

[ArlanKels]

~A MURDER HAS HAPPENED~

Sherlock Holmes & Watson
Psych's Shawn Spencer & Gus
Monk's Adrian Monk & Natalie(Or the other girl, whichever you prefer)

Who shall solve it first?

[Archbio]

There are these magic things called clips that people put into guns and they magically allow you to shoot more than once.

Ah. I'm done here.

~A MURDER HAS HAPPENED~

If it was just Holmes-Watson and Monk-Sidekick, I think on average it'd be Holmes. Basically Monk is Holmes but slowed down. Unless I'm missing something, I've only seen a couple Monk episodes.

[ArlanKels]

I still don't get why we're arguing about McClain vs Dunn.

McClain, in the movies, ALWAYS gets beat up by the badguys. ALWAYS. He gets punched, shot, thrown, grabbed, choked, tossed off buildings, etc.

So it's a guarantee that Dunn is going to get his hands on McClain, due to McClain's past luck with avoiding physical contact. The fact that Dunn has past football experience, is in shape and stays in shape, and is a security guard means that he can probably move very fast on his feet, which means he could run straight to McClain. McClain would then try to fight him off with fistacuffs + dirty shots(kick to the nuts), but that wouldn't work, Dunn would get ahold of him. Game over for McClain.

[Sithdarth]

No, I mean when you were like 'well he shoots him in the head and drags him to the Pacific Ocean while he's out.'

Yeah again, Dunn starts groaning and moving and bang another bullet to the head. I mean really guns have more than one bullet why would he suddenly stop doing the only thing proven to put Dunn out.


Ah. I'm done here.

I'm sorry for being snarky but it seemed like a very very VERY obvious solution to me. If you knock a guy out and he starts to wake up and you want to knock him out again then you just hit him. I mean how could you not immediately assume that.

Also I did say this:
And really after McClain puts him you with a gun shot to the head its not to hard to keep him that way.

Which I admit isn't terribly clear but it does strongly suggest that I had acknowledged the fact Dunn would wake up relatively soon after the shot to the head and that more would be required to keep him in that state.

Edit:
I still don't get why we're arguing about McClain vs Dunn.

McClain, in the movies, ALWAYS gets beat up by the badguys. ALWAYS. He gets punched, shot, thrown, grabbed, choked, tossed off buildings, etc.

So it's a guarantee that Dunn is going to get his hands on McClain, due to McClain's past luck with avoiding physical contact.

Eventually yes. Right away not so certain. McClain relies on bullets far more than fists. Fists are a fall back for when he doesn't have bullets. Which is why for me this is still a toss up. One or the other would have to get a fairly lucky break to become the winner.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

I'm just going to point out something...

How the hell do you know water can kill him? Did he die? Did water kill him at any point in the movie?

No. It can hurt him, presumably because of the lack of oxygen to the brain causing the brain meats to stop working, but since he IS unbreakable, his cells wouldn't break apart and die like normal cells would. Its quite possible that he could be revived from any 'death' because he wouldn't take any damage. Ever.

For all we know, David Dunn cannot die. Knocked out, yes. Hurt, yes. But as long as the body remains intact, he could ALWAYS be revived. Or potentially. We don't know.

[Sithdarth]

I'm just going to point out something...

How the hell do you know water can kill him? Did he die? Did water kill him at any point in the movie?

No. It can hurt him, presumably because of the lack of oxygen to the brain causing the brain meats to stop working, but since he IS unbreakable, his cells wouldn't break apart and die like normal cells would. Its quite possible that he could be revived from any 'death' because he wouldn't take any damage. Ever.

For all we know, David Dunn cannot die. Knocked out, yes. Hurt, yes. But as long as the body remains intact, he could ALWAYS be revived. Or potentially. We don't know.

In which case we count incapacitation as a win. But in all likely hood if Dunn was sunk to the bottom of a body of water for a few days and fished up cold to the touch no one would try to revive him. As such his body will never become warm enough to function again and even if it did somehow get warmed up it just wouldn't start up on its own. There would need to be some kind of electrical stimulation of the heart and brain to get him running again. So he'd be dead in every sense of the word just potentially able to be raised.

[ArlanKels]

Yeah again, Dunn starts groaning and moving and bang another bullet to the head. I mean really guns have more than one bullet why would he suddenly stop doing the only thing proven to put Dunn out.



I'm sorry for being snarky but it seemed like a very very VERY obvious solution to me. If you knock a guy out and he starts to wake up and you want to knock him out again then you just hit him. I mean how could you not immediately assume that.

Also I did say this:


Which I admit isn't terribly clear but it does strongly suggest that I had acknowledged the fact Dunn would wake up relatively soon after the shot to the head and that more would be required to keep him in that state.

Edit:


Eventually yes. Right away not so certain. McClain relies on bullets far more than fists. Fists are a fall back for when he doesn't have bullets. Which is why for me this is still a toss up. One or the other would have to get a fairly lucky break to become the winner.

And Dunn has his own gun, and his own training in using it.
So in a gunfight between Dunn and McClain, the guy who is bulletproof would win.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

In which case we count incapacitation as a win. But in all likely hood if Dunn was sunk to the bottom of a body of water for a few days and fished up cold to the touch no one would try to revive him. As such his body will never become warm enough to function again and even if it did somehow get warmed up it just wouldn't start up on its own. There would need to be some kind of electrical stimulation of the heart and brain to get him running again. So he'd be dead in every sense of the word just potentially able to be raised.

I agree... but I think the point still stands that we don't actually know if he would die or not, or whether he would just be unconscious for a long time.

[Sithdarth]

And Dunn has his own gun, and his own training in using it.
So in a gunfight between Dunn and McClain, the guy who is bulletproof would win.

Considering how much McClain has been shot at by other "professional" gun users that's highly unlikely. That and I don't think Dunn would get anywhere near the same level of training with guns as McClain as a guard at a University sporting complex. He certainly wouldn't have as much practical experience with its use. I mean he doesn't even use it at work and I doubt they'd let them with all those people around. He keeps it unloaded in a dusty box in his closet. Dunn is an amateur with his gun at best and no real match for McClain gun wise. I doubt he'd even bring it because its not like he'd be to terribly worried about dieing. I mean I don't remember seeing when he went to take down the serial killer and it would certainly have helped.

[ArlanKels]

Amateur or not, you CAN hit someone with a pistol even with little to no experience using a real firearm. That's why pistols can be so dangerous.

Now let me get this straight:
McClain is going to win because he'll
A) Not get hit by a bullet ever
B) Not get grabbed by Dunn
C) Magically know how to defeat Dunn
D) Continually fire bullets into Dunn to keep him unconcious until he can use said magically gained knowledge to defeat Dunn


I think I'm done with this versus discussion.

[Sithdarth]

Amateur or not, you CAN hit someone with a pistol even with little to no experience using a real firearm. That's why pistols can be so dangerous.

Its significantly hard for an amateur to hit a moving target that's dodging behind cover and firing back. Even if Dunn wasn't afraid of getting shot he would be after the first bullet to the head at the very least dazed him. McClain has a much better chance to get in the first shot because he's got experience in using and firing around cover.

Now let me get this straight:
McClain is going to win because he'll
A) Not get hit by a bullet ever
B) Not get grabbed by Dunn
C) Magically know how to defeat Dunn
D) Continually fire bullets into Dunn to keep him unconcious until he can use said magically gained knowledge to defeat Dunn


I think I'm done with this versus discussion.

Ok this is going to sound mean but read my posts please. I stated at least twice that it was more of a toss up between the two depending on which one got lucky first/how long the fight lasted.

A) Not get hit by a bullet ever
No he'll have a better chance of not getting hit plus there is absolutely no reason what so ever to believe Dunn will suddenly decide to bring a gun he touches once every three years. Seriously that thing was more plot device then anything and how he had it stored strongly suggests it was for home defense meaning he would never carry it. If we want to throw stones this right here is playing favorites and giving an unwarranted advantage.

B) Not get grabbed by Dunn
At first but as the fight progressive it gets less and less likely. A fact that I have acknowledged twice now. Something which you have apparently ignored as far as I can tell.

C) Magically know how to defeat Dunn
Sorry but I figured McClain might have some common sense and an IQ above 60. After a few bullets its pretty obvious unusual methods might be required. I also acknowledged that there is a degree of luck here.

D) Continually fire bullets into Dunn to keep him unconcious until he can use said magically gained knowledge to defeat Dunn

Again this plays into how a protracted fight isn't good for McClain and how luck plays into it. If McClain gets lucky he wins if McClain doesn't get lucky then Dunn got lucky with the lack of luck for McClain. The resulting protracted fight then goes to Dunn.

I think I'm done with this versus discussion.
Now I do believe I'm done with this discussion seeing as people seem to be more inclined to strawman my side and then dismiss me as not worth their time. Frankly its just a bit aggravating.

[Fifthfiend]

All right let's everybody step away from this one, no need to get salty over the hypothetical battles of fictional characters.

[POS Industries]

Salty, eh? I've got it!

Mr. Peanut versus Kool-Aid Man! The Sultan of Salty faces off against the Caesar of Sugary Sweet!

[Fifthfiend]

Kool-Aid Man is water and powder in a glass jug, he's an accident waiting to happen.

Now Mr. Peanut versus the Pringles guy, there's a goddamn rumble.

[IHateMakingNames]

Kool-Aid Man is water and powder in a glass jug, he's an accident waiting to happen.

Despite that, he can bust through walls and do extreme sports without any problems. Mr. Peanut would be turned into Mr. Peanut Butter (Oh, clever am I).

[Fifthfiend]

Despite that, he can bust through walls and do extreme sports without any problems.

Yeah, but can he wear a top hat? I THINK NOT.

[Archbio]

Because he has a hole in the top of his head? Well played.

[Zilla]

Mr. Peanut is always so casual about everything. I would love to see him riled up.

[Telephalsion]

Well, the kool-aid man has the ability to smash through any wall unscathed, and he can pour his tasty entrails over any foe.

And Mr Peanut is a peanut, so the size difference is substantial. If Mr Peanut decides to punch a hole in Kool with his cane he'll only meet his watery demise.

[Tendronai]

Mr. Peanut just uses his cane to smash a hole in the Kool-aid Man's jug. Either that, or he points to a nearby window and tells him that there are thirsty children outside of it.

I say he beats the Pringles guy, too. After all, the Pringles guy is just a head, so all he can really do is try to swoop around and eat Mr. Peanut. But there's no way he can get through the shell effectively, and any time he tries to start gnawing through it is the perfect opportunity for a cane to the eye.

[Zilla]

But the pringles can guy can sing. Don't forget to factor that in to his standing.

How about Mr. Peanut and Rich Uncle Pennybags, the monopoly guy?

[Rygar]

Monopoly guy's got a car, Peanut doesn't stand a chance

[Tendronai]

Don't forget his cannon. I hate to say it, but even the monocle and cane ensemble wouldn't protect him from that.

[Ex. 68471]

SCENARIO:
Mr. Peanut: Man, all this salt in me is making me thirsty.
Kool-Aid Man:*Bursts through the wall.*OOOOH, YEAH!!!
Mr. Peanut: OMGWTF!!!*Has a heart attack and dies.*

[Tendronai]

Mr. Peanut: OMGWTF!!!*Has a heart attack and dies.*

That's what his monocle is for. It's a well-known fact that if someone is shocked while wearing the monocle - no matter how much - the monocle falls out, and that is all they suffer.

But I was watching the Venture Bros. recently, and I have to ask the forums opinion - Lizzie Borden vs. Anne Frank. The alleged serial killer against the scrappy never-say-die mentality of a survivor.

[POS Industries]

But, I mean, Anne Frank didn't survive. She died of Typhus at Bergen-Belsen.

[Skyshot]

But she didn't say it.

Anyways, I'd vote Anne Frank, because her stamina in hiding out would outlast Borden's willpower to kill her.

Also, was Lizzie Borden a serial killer? I thought she only (allegedly) murdered her parents. You'd have to put Anne Frank up against someone who posed a real threat. Say... Anne Frank versus Ted Bundy. For that I'd say Bundy wins, because he'd have what it takes to get Anne out of hiding. And when Anne Frank is out of hiding, she's powerless.

[Tendronai]

But Anne Frank was somehow able to hide from the Nazi regimes which were dedicated to killing off her entire race. I'm pretty sure that she could dodge one man fairly effectively.

[Zilla]

Then there is the Battle of the Bundy's.

Ted vs Al.

Will Al's rampant apathy and chauvanism melt the serial killer's heart into sitting down and watching football with him? Or will Ted retain his resolve?

[ArlanKels]

Can Ted even compare to the vicious evil monsterous garbage that Al has put up with from his Wife and children?

[Skyshot]

But Anne Frank was somehow able to hide from the Nazi regimes which were dedicated to killing off her entire race. I'm pretty sure that she could dodge one man fairly effectively.Nazis radiate evil and hatred. You can detect it a mile away. Ted Bundy had charisma, and even if he failed once, he could just change his look and come back again.

Ted vs Al.Why would they fight? Al's not a white chick with a specific hairstyle. (I'm also not familiar enough with Al to judge this one, but from what I've heard it would pretty be tough to beat him with that crowbar.)

[Zilla]

Can Ted even compare to the vicious evil monsterous garbage that Al has put up with from his Wife and children?

You have made one girl's day. I laughed out loud at this for almost a minute.

[Archibald]

Anne didn't hide due to HER reslove. Its thanks to her father and his friends mostly. If we gonna say SHE has the ability to hide.. Yeah, she wins.

also, Al will always beat Ted cause ted will most likely try to kill the kids first and it will never work since Al is doomed to live with them. He can also bash him into a freaking touchdown.

Al is my hero.

[Tendronai]

You're all missing one very important thing here. While Al is indeed among the greatest brawlers, and a great football player, he is - primarily - a failure. He does not succeed at anything, unless it involves his high school football record. Unless Ted is trying to score five touchdowns in a single game, Al will not be able to win.

[greed]

He also can protect his family(I think this has come up a few times in the series), due to being doomed to stay with them, and as Ted would go for Kelly, Al would be able to beat him.

[Tendronai]

He also can protect his family(I think this has come up a few times in the series), due to being doomed to stay with them, and as Ted would go for Kelly, Al would be able to beat him.

That's true. Al would win in that instance.

So, if Al had his family nearby, he would win. Since he is unable to escape his family, that means Al wins the fight.

If you magically removed them from the equation, Al would be too happy to fight, and Ted would win by default.

[Ex. 68471]

It is a sad day when we are having a serious discussion about serial killer fighting TV show characters.

Nah, not really.

Ratchet(Ratchet and Clank) Vs. Daxter(Jak and Daxter)

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Little unfair there don't you think, pitting the hero against a comedy sidekick. A better fight would be Ratchet vs. Jak.

[POS Industries]

True. But really, the only fight that should be coming out of any of those games is....

GIR vs. Clank

Time for Zim's insane robot sidekick to take that ripoff down.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

I got an idea:

Cujo vs White Fang in a dog fight cage match!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Cujo would eat White Fang alive. He's rabid after all, so he probably would do that and because of that he's also batshit insane which makes Cujo far more deadly than any normal wild animal.

[Lumenskir]

Cujo wins because the whole point of White Fang is to show that a wolf can be pussified, while Cujo exists to show that any and every dog can flip out and kill everything around it.

Omnidroid #10 (The Incredibles) v. Iron Giant

A Brad Bird-created giant robot rumble!

[Sesshoumaru]

I'd have to disagree on the Vash vs Train thing. While both of them have practically flawless gunmanship, I'd say Train has the edge (afterall, he can block incoming bullets with his bullets). Plus he has his indestructable gun, proven close-combat skills, and a variety of specially bullets (and grenades). The only way Vash would stand a chance is if he used his angel arm, which may or may not be able to overcome the burst railgun. Of course, Vash can use angel arm more often than Train can use the railgun, and while Train can block bullets with Hades or by shooting them down, Vash could probably intercept incoming rounds as well (although I don't remember him doing so in the anime, and I haven't read the manga). Overall I'd say its a draw, unless Train gets pissed off for some reason, since manga-Train isn't as pissy about killing people as Vash is (afterall, Vash grew up being taught to respect all life, Train grew up learning how to kill people).

I have another one: Smoke from MK (ninja, not the queer robot version) vs Naruto. Hell, any MK ninja vs Naruto.

[Skyshot]

How about Mogo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogo) versus Ego (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_the_Living_Planet)?

[Fifthfiend]

I got an idea:

Cujo vs White Fang in a dog fight cage match!

Didn't White Fang get his ass kicked by a bulldog or some shit?

[Mesden]

How about Mogo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogo) versus Ego (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_the_Living_Planet)?

Whereas Mogo has that really snazzy ring and a big body behind it, Ego is one of the super-powerful, mega-elders of the universe people in Marvel, who right out manipulate the universe via will. It's very rare someone can outpower the Elders (Thanos(And he only outwits them), Galactacus, and other Primal Forces of the universe are pretty much the only ones). I'm giving this one to Ego.

[Fifthfiend]

manipulate the universe via will

Cause Lord knows no Green Lantern would know anything about that.

[Ex. 68471]

Little unfair there don't you think, pitting the hero against a comedy sidekick. A better fight would be Ratchet vs. Jak.

Well, I figured it was fair because both of them are short(not quite as much so in Ratchet's case) and furry.

Okay, how about this instead:

Monty Python Vs. Blue Collar Comedy Troupe
Comedic Faceoff!
Who can make the crowd laugh hardest?

[Zilla]

Depends on the crowd, really. If they are intelligent or drunk/stoned, Monty Python will likely kick the shit out of the Blue Collar Comedy Troupe. BCCT would work if the crowd was.. hm... well, the right demographic anyway.

[Ex. 68471]

The crowd is southern drunkards.

Give 'em an even playing field.
MP plays to drunks, BCCT plays to southerners.

[Fenris]

The American Dollar versus The Canadian Dollar in a no-holds barred grudge match.

[Tendronai]

Canadian Dollar starts off strong, then loses a lot of ground, but makes an incredible comeback.

But the Canadian Dollar wins because our basic dollar is a coin, the loonie, which can easily outlast some silly bill.

[Skyshot]

our basic dollar is a coinWell in that case the bill wins. The coin is rocklike, and the bill is paperlike. And we all know paper beats rock.

[Zilla]

I think BCCT wins on anyone in the South. They'll just go "uhh... what?" to Monty Python.

[h4x.m4g3]

The crowd is southern drunkards.
Wait isn't everyone in the South automatically a drunk? (Note: I am from, and reside in Alabama). Anyway Southern drunkards just make them even more rednecks and thus Blue Collar wins.

[Tendronai]

Well in that case the bill wins. The coin is rocklike, and the bill is paperlike. And we all know paper beats rock.

The coin isn't rock-like. It's Coin-like! Meaning that if the bill was thrown at the coin, it would likely float away, where the coin thrown at the bill would tear the bill (likely).

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

You cannot batter someone with a rolled up wad of notes, however, coins make excellent projectiles.

Just sayin'.

[Fifthfiend]

The coin isn't rock-like. It's Coin-like!

It's a hunk of metal beaten into an appropriate shape; it's essentially a rock broken down for parts.

You cannot batter someone with a rolled up wad of notes, however, coins make excellent projectiles.

Just sayin'.

The question isn't whether a given currency can beat a human being but rather which would beat the other.

Meaning that if the bill was thrown at the coin, it would likely float away, where the coin thrown at the bill would tear the bill (likely).

Rock tears paper? No, no that doesn't work at all.

[Mr.Bookworm]

The dollar wins, on the basis of that it's worth more, and therefore more powerful.

[Tendronai]

The dollar wins, on the basis of that it's worth more, and therefore more powerful.

I'd like to point out now that the Canadian Dollar has actually risen to about 96 cents, from the 80 or so of two years ago. That's significant growth.

[The Wandering God]

Actually, the American dollar has had 3 coin versions.

Susan B.
Sacajawea (I can't believe it, but I spelled it right the first time.)
and now we have a new one with George Washington on it.

So... yeah.

Also, there are weird things going on in the dollar bill, so it wins for weirdness at least. Canada just gets points for sounding goofy.

The Wandering God

[Archbio]

It's a hunk of metal beaten into an appropriate shape; it's essentially a rock broken down for parts.

Does that mean that, for the purposes of the (Rock, Paper, Scissors) game, the scissors are made out of plastic?

[Fifthfiend]

Yes it does.

[Tendronai]

Also, there are weird things going on in the dollar bill, so it wins for weirdness at least. Canada just gets points for sounding goofy.


So, we get points for goofiness, but lose on the overall weirdness rubric? Damn.

A new fight for you all, one inspired by recent posts - Rock vs. Paper vs. Scissors, in a free for all.

[Mesden]

Rock seems pretty aggressive, so it'd probably go for the biggest threat really fast -- the tool designed specifically to be two sharp pieces of metal. After a quick bashing, the low-lying paper takes it chance and wraps around the rock. The rock, now bewildered at the obstructing white covering all valence points, proceeds to wait until it rains, thus turning the paper into a worthless, icky mulch that falls from the rock.

20000 years pass and the rock erodes into practical nothingness. It's a draw!

[Nikose Tyris]

okay so here's a bit of an odd one:

The Shadow vs. Zorro.

I'm just curious how this would turn out.

[POS Industries]

Can't The Shadow read minds and use telekinesis? Fuck man, Zorro doesn't have a chance.

[Fenris]

POS versus DFM in an all-out battle.

Go.

[POS Industries]

I cast magic missile at the darkness?

[Nikose Tyris]

...

Dancing Fire Monkies versus Pirate on a Stick.

The pirate is already on a stick- he doesn't have much fight left in him.

The fire monkey's win.

[Zilla]

Wait, it's pirate on a stick? I thought it was Piece of Shit industries, which implies they make crappy products...?

[Fenris]

It's Pirate on a stick.

[Fifthfiend]

It stands for whatever you want it to stand for at whatever point you want it to stand for something.

It was Pedro O. Salazar, for a while.

Can't The Shadow read minds and use telekinesis? Fuck man, Zorro doesn't have a chance.

IIRC he had telepathic powers, like he could mentally manipulate people and shit, but I think we can spot Zorro a Strong-Willed Man of Good resistance to that. Don't remember if he had telekinesis, I know there was that fight where him and the evil Asian dude were pushing that dagger back and forth but that was like, a magic sentient dagger or some shit so I'd chalk that up to the telepathy again.

Ultimately though Zorro has some pretty fancy sword moves and the Shadow just, well, shoots people, and as Shadow doesn't function under the villain's "bullets always miss" rule we can probably assume that he wins.

[Mondt]

It was Pedro O. Salazar, for a while.I thought it was Pedro O' Sullivan.

[Doc ock rokc]

Can't The Shadow read minds and use telekinesis? Fuck man, Zorro doesn't have a chance.
The Shadow has the ablity to cloud the minds of man but can never hide his shadow. Zorrow is a man thats a realy good fighter. The Shadow will win because he can create distractions and hide in plane sight. So to sum it up The Shadow is Batman and we know Batman would win

[Mondt]

The Shadow has the ablity to cloud the minds of man but can never hide his shadow. Zorrow is a man thats a realy good fighter. The Shadow will win because he can create distractions and hide in plane sight. So to sum it up The Shadow is Batman and we know Batman would winI dunno about calling The Shadow Batman.

Zorro's got all kinds of hightened senses, and once he realizes what the Shadow is capable of, he could be ready for most of it. Any sound, any hiding in the shadows, I should expect that he would be able to figure out when he could be all "cut ur ded"

Unless The Shadow just goes into the shadows and shoots him.

[ArlanKels]

The Shadow's ability and only ability is to go invisible.
However The shadow uses guns.

A gun is greater than a fencing sword...especially if you can go invisible and sneak up on someone.

[secretskull]

If we have already compared Shadow to Batman, why don't we make a fight of it? Choose your version Batman (Except the Adam West one, I don't want to hear about Shadow-Be-Gone-Spray).

They are both dropped into an enclosed room filled with convenient pipes and random junk.

[POS Industries]

I thought it was Piece of Shit industries
It's Pirate on a stick.
It was Pedro O. Salazar, for a while.
I thought it was Pedro O' Sullivan.

Pants Off, Stupid.

[Doc ock rokc]

If we have already compared Shadow to Batman, why don't we make a fight of it? Choose your version Batman (Except the Adam West one, I don't want to hear about Shadow-Be-Gone-Spray).

They are both dropped into an enclosed room filled with convenient pipes and random junk.
all bats will lose. The shadow would win for he would make himself invisable then make batman think he is geting attacked over and over again till the old bats is tired then the real shadow strikes

[Fenris]

Are you dense? Are you retarded or something? He's the goddamn Batman.

Batman wins. He'd throw a flare or something to nullify the shadow powers.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

How about something different altogether?

Luke Skywalker (SW) versus Paul Atreides (Dune).

Luke Skywalker has a lightsaber and the Force.

Paul Atreides has a crys-knife, super-speed and reflexes, and the ability to see the future.

Both of them have mind controlling abilities, so it negates each other.

[ArlanKels]

If we have already compared Shadow to Batman, why don't we make a fight of it? Choose your version Batman (Except the Adam West one, I don't want to hear about Shadow-Be-Gone-Spray).

They are both dropped into an enclosed room filled with convenient pipes and random junk.


The Shadow's ability is invisibility by clouding the mind.

If we're talking about DCAU Batman he's shown at least a minor ability to defend against mental intrusion(Doctor Destiny couldn't fully screw with him).

Aside from that, Batman is accustomed to sneaking and attacking from the dark, which means he'd be more capable of anticipating where The Shadow is and subsequently just attacking that seemingly empty location.

Paul vs Luke is a tough one...
However, if we're talking about Luke after he's fully mastered the force then I'd have to give it to him as he'd have the slight edge in reaction speed and agility.

[Doc ock rokc]

He'd throw a flare or something to nullify the shadow powers.

:rolleyes: Thats not how shadows powers work. When he is invisable the only thing thats visable is the shadow of the shadow. He can cloud minds makeing batman think he is comeing form all directions at once or none at all.

[Fenris]

Right, making it so that his shadow would still be there while the shadows he was hiding in wouldn't be in.

Because he's still there and would still produce a shadow once a light was shone on him, I'd assume.

[Doc ock rokc]

Right, making it so that his shadow would still be there while the shadows he was hiding in wouldn't be in.

Because he's still there and would still produce a shadow once a light was shone on him, I'd assume.
But he could also make illusions of other shadows and make "Bats" attack Batman.

[Fenris]

If he were expecting the flare at first. I mean Batman is the greatest detective ever, and he'd know about the Shadow's abilities. He'd start the battle with the flare and then throw bat-bolas at the shadow as soon as he saw it. Also, as it was said earlier, Batman can defend against mental intrusion.