Should FF games keep changing or get back to basics?

[Magic E-Mail Chicken]

The latest FF games, X, X-2, and XI, have realy changed the direction of the game. XI in particular has changed the whole battle style. Many of the old traditions have been thrown out, but has it been for the better?
Personaly, I liked the old games better.

[Krylo]

Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes not. For instance, MOST people didn't like FF8's leveling system, which is also far different than any others (although maybe closer than FFX), while, on the other hand, most people tended to like FFX's system... and I think if people could get past the idea of playing pretty princess dress-up they'd like FFX-2's as well (seriously the game is fun as hell, even though the plot doesn't seem that great yet, and I'm on the fifth chapter).

Now, that's not to say the old ones aren't good... I'm sure everyone can agree that FF6 and before had good systems too... but the problem is this... would we still think their battle/leveling systems are great if we had played 15 games with them, or would we be begging for changes?

Personally, I think the latter... change is good... without change we have only stagnation.

As for the plots, well those haven't changed that much more than from game to game, except that the new ones are more character orientated than they are story orientated... but I think that's a direct influence of better programming. For instance, all FF6 had were injured, surprised, and normal sprites. Now can you imagine trying to convey Tidus with just those three sprites (when he cries, or fakes laughter, or whatever else)? The character would be completely lost. Some people would say that's a good thing... but just becuase they don't like the character doesn't mean he's a BAD character. He's a good character, with various levels of emotional adaptation that takes place throughout the story... and one that would be difficult to convey without decent graphics and voices.

In other words... keep changing... definately.

[ChaosWing]

If the Final Fantasy series had remained the same for all 14 episodes now, would you still play it? I know I wouldn't, it would basically be the "Tomb Raider" of the RPG genre at that point. New story, same gameplay, no thanks.

Edit: 14, not 12 episodes, I almost forgot Tactics and Crystal Chronicles <.<

[Hunter_Shu]

Just kill the series. While it shouldn't have been the same, it should have been similar. Besides, if you kill the series the company would rely less on the name and more on quality.
(Yeah right... They'd just say from the makers of FF...)
Quiet, voice. Thou hast no place here.

[StormRider]

Change is good. They just have to figure out which systems work and which don't, and then refine them. Without innovation, why keep coming back?

[ChaosWing]

...and I think if people could get past the idea of playing pretty princess dress-up they'd like FFX-2's as well (seriously the game is fun as hell, even though the plot doesn't seem that great yet, and I'm on the fifth chapter).

I thought X-2 is fun too, the whole "dressup" stuff could be turned off for the most part. I think people just put it down as being too "hip", aka corny and don't give it a chance.

[IHateMakingNames]

They tend to keep the same battle system, but change the leveling some times and the magic. The battles themselves haven't been very different until FFT and FFX (And their sequels). Just wait for bar to go up, click whatever, wait and repeat.

But the systems need to keep changing and evolving, and maybe bringing back old school systems that were only used once, but refined. The job system everyone likes, and it has been used 5 times in three different variations.

[Magic E-Mail Chicken]

Really, the games have just been the same ideas rearranged and thrown in a new battle and level up system. But with new technology and graphics, things have gone in a new direction. I do like some changes, the materia of FF7 an junctioning system of FF8 were both clever and got rid of the "one class characters," and that was nice, but when they got rid of the world map for a single linear continent in FFX, i knew things would never be the same.

[StormRider]

I actually liked the battle system in X-2 with its combos. It added a refinement to FF that hasn't been seen in a while. I hope they keep that feature in 12 and later games.

[Krylo]

I actually liked the battle system in X-2 with its combos. It added a refinement to FF that hasn't been seen in a while. I hope they keep that feature in 12 and later games.They kinda have it in CC... two spells at the same person in the same time will upgrade the spell instead of just having two of the same spell hitting.

[Magic E-Mail Chicken]

Combos are fun! But i found X-2 to be a little too easy. No last boss should go down without giving me heck on a CD. Ultimicia and Sephiroth were excelent! They make you feel intimidated. Vegnagun was a push-over and never even killed anyone. He didnt even put me in the Yellow HP levels!
Also, isnt it odd for a game called FINAL Fantasy to have so many sequals?

[Nietz]

Also, isnt it odd for a game called FINAL Fantasy to have so many sequals?

That's because when Square did Final Fantasy 1, back in the eighties, they were in the brink of financial disaster. So it could actually have been one of their last games hadn't it been so successfull. I like to think they keep making the sequels to remember that, thanks to this title, their Fantasy is far off from being the Final one nowadays.

That, and all the money they make from it, of course...

[Hunter_Shu]

Combos are fun! But i found X-2 to be a little too easy. No last boss should go down without giving me heck on a CD. Ultimicia and Sephiroth were excelent! They make you feel intimidated. Vegnagun was a push-over and never even killed anyone. He didnt even put me in the Yellow HP levels!
Also, isnt it odd for a game called FINAL Fantasy to have so many sequals?
Ultimecia made me cry....
Because I sat there for 45 minutes fighting a pitifully easy boss....
Sephiroth wasn't bad either, for that matter. Now Kefka: HE was tough. Neo X-Death and Zeromus tougher still.
And Vegnagun never killed anyone for you, eh? Just sit there long enough... You'll see.

[Nique]

That's because when Square did Final Fantasy 1, back in the eighties, they were in the brink of financial disaster

Some people praise sqaure for continuing, becuase of that very fact. Others despise sqaure for continuing with a 'seris' that never should have been.

Personally, I belive every FF has been a quality game, even the ones i hate (9 and tatics). Has it been the 'same' game, revisited? Sure. But the scope of what has been added due to technical advancments and realizations of what can be done with exsisting technology, has added SOOO much to FF, that it is hard to recogognize that they are the same games, reincarnated for their respetive time frames. Beyond the item names and functions, along with magic types, we're looking at VERY different games and systems. We've got classes, yes, and "save the world" story lines. But as was said, FF gets reorganized, reestablished, and improved over every installment. Some charecters have similar qualities between games, but honestly, the hero is always going to fit that role somehow, the love interest or lead female will always fit certain standards... these are givens for video game stories, RPGs in paticular. A rule? Hardly. But we are dealing with ...what? Final Fantasy. The same game, revisted, except its improved.

I think FF has changed in mostly the right areas, and stayed the same in all the right areas. It is the game everyone knows and loves, and then some, and then even more with each new installment. I don't belive that they are using the FF brand name alone to sell their games. i belive they are appealing to certain types of gamers, with a similar game each time... but they are changing it suffciantly to have it be, indeed, a different game.

ah. I love my musings.... ^_^....

[Deathosaurus Wrecks]

yeah, ill toss in my 2 zenny.

change is always good for such long running series. if you like how one game plays, you can always go back and play it again. but to get something new and take a chance at greatness is a daunting task. especialy when so much is expected of you.

[Priest4hire]

That's because when Square did Final Fantasy 1, back in the eighties, they were in the brink of financial disaster. So it could actually have been one of their last games hadn't it been so successfull. I like to think they keep making the sequels to remember that, thanks to this title, their Fantasy is far off from being the Final one nowadays.

That, and all the money they make from it, of course...

Here's something else to consider:

Final Fantasy was heavily influenced by another major RPG series. A series called Ultima. Now, ultima is the name for the last syllable of a word. It is also directly related to ultimate, meaning the last, or final. Both words probably come from ultimus, a Latin word meaning last (or final).

So, they decide to make their own CRPG and base it greatly off a very popular, even in Japan, RPG series called Ultima and they call it Final Fantasy. Coincidence?

[Daer-San]

I like ow FF games have had changes and game developers have had courage to try new systems and still have got good games... But i guess that without changes i still had bought em all.. I love good stories and that is what FFs are at their bests...
i wish they had made real combo attack to FF X-2 like in chrono trigger...

[TheZeroMan]

I know, I like change if it actually helps but lately square seems to be pandering.

And despite the fancy new graphics... the characters haven't gotten any better, I haven't run across a truely compelling character since Cloud.

I haven't been really connected with FF characters in general since 7.

It seems since Cloud every main character has tried to pull off the messed up past and emotionaly disturbed angel but hasn't nearly worked.

And 8 sucked.

[Gerad]

The best RPGs I have played have this in common: they have the best 'whack-boom'.

To clarify, I mean that every single move made has weight, every move is important. If you choose FIGHT, you should see your character wail on the other guy. Both of you should feel it! Personally, I think FF games like VI, VII and X had some of the best 'weight' on the attacks. In VI, when you swing the Atmaweapon, you can see and hear it slicing through the flesh (or armor plating) of the enemy. In VII, when Barret or Vincent guns someone down, you know it hurts. In X, when Auron steps up for that Armor Break and you feel the 'crash' then you know something was broken. In VI, you might say that beating en enemy sounds like 'whack-boom', that's just how I like to think of it.

I like the logistical direction that the FF series is going now. Especially the multiplayer aspects of XI and CC. It really brings out the idea of 'playing' a 'role' in a party. The thing that I dislike is the lack of recoil in FFXI. There are only some moves that actually knock the other person back or cause them to flinch... that's not very intimidating. On the other hand, I thought CC was better. When you whack someone with a sword, there is recoil.

Take it or leave it.

[Bob The Mercenary]

Personally, I think Square Enix should rethink their format a little. Has anyone else noticed the sharp increase in length and amount of cutscenes. Especially in Xenosaga. I know we talked about this somewhere before, but it applies to FFX as well. FFVII was one of the greatest games of all time, and it had about 1/5 to 1/6 the cutscenes that X had. That's just my estimate.

I think cutscenes take away from games more than they add. They remove valuable time that could be spent advancing, and add more cg than necessary. We don't need to see the entire fight unfold, just give me a sssssswwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssshhhhhh sound and shove me into a battle. I'll be satisfied.

[Ippy]

Personally, I think Square Enix should rethink their format a little. Has anyone else noticed the sharp increase in length and amount of cutscenes. Especially in Xenosaga. I know we talked about this somewhere before, but it applies to FFX as well. FFVII was one of the greatest games of all time, and it had about 1/5 to 1/6 the cutscenes that X had. That's just my estimate.

I think cutscenes take away from games more than they add. They remove valuable time that could be spent advancing, and add more cg than necessary. We don't need to see the entire fight unfold, just give me a sssssswwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssshhhhhh sound and shove me into a battle. I'll be satisfied.

I always liked the cutscenes they add to a game...

It can go a bit overboard... But if I had a choice to watch a cutscene or level up for hours I would chose the cutscene. (Even though ff8 sucked in several areas, the game still looked great and had a kick ass soundtrack) Partly because leveling up ruins a game... (In the instance when you fight Sephiroth on level 60+, It's just too easy)

But I think that in Final Fantasy 7 and 8 had awesome scenes, and yes 10 does have quite a few of them too, but I am just addicted to all the older FF titles.

And yes I agree with the opening part of a battle....In ff9 how many times do you have to view the landscape before you fight? The camera moves around...and then it does again...and FINALLY the monsters appear. When you are trying to make it through a dungeon...it bugs the hell outta me. It also cuts back on time trying to earn money to buy stuff that I would eventually find in the next dungeon :thief:

::Nothing to do with the subject:: On Final Fantasy VII Advent Children It's like all of the best cutscenes combined and redone to make it look even better than before

[StormRider]

One thing I think SquareEnix should add is the ability to skip story sequences/FMVs. It's been a problem since the god-awfully-long summons from 7. Yeah, they look great and all, but after you see it a couple of times, the awe kinda wears off. For instance, if someone saved just before a crucial boss battle, then died, they'd have to spend five minutes impatiently skipping through the incredibly long dialogue session that precedes it. Admit it, how many times has this happened to you? I'd be willing to bet it's been more often than you'd like. One thing (among many) that I liked about the GBA release of Fire Emblem was its ability to skip through entire dialogue scenes with just a press of the Start button. Considering how many times I've had to restart levels in that game, I probably saved myself a several hours of my life not reading the same story sequences over and over.

[Patricoo]

I've missed too much of the conversation to really get into it, but I say back to basics. Mabey I'll elaborate later? Lazy now. I WILL THOUGH. promise.

[StormRider]

I disagree. The basics are just that; basic. It's just not enough anymore, now that we have the hardware to make more complicated games. I like Square-Enix's recent foray into co-op modes of play, if they could only incorporate them into a good character-driven storyline, I would be a very happy person. Maybe that's asking too much, but I'd rather be a greedy bitch in this case.

[AndyBloodredMage]

I can't agree more with the annoying camera zooming right before a battle. It's so incredibly annoying. Maybe do it for a boss her and there, but for every single battle it gets annoying and repetive

[Lockeownzj00]

Hardly a reason to hate the series.

With Xenosaga, I found myself wanting cinema scenes and not wanting gameplay. It wasn't that the gameplay sucked, it was that the gameplay got stale sometimes. I hate to say something so insulting as "stale," because it makes one think I hate the game, but I don't; in fact, I love it. It's just that sometimes watching the story advance was better than trying to avoid monsters to get to treasure chest 534231.

[AndyBloodredMage]

Hardly a reason to hate the series.

Is this in reference to what I said? If so, I do not hate the series AT ALL. It was merely a slight fault in the game, the error that makes you appreciate the game as a whole all the more. Cameras can get annoying, but should never be a priority for judging in a an RPG. Now if it's a platformer with bad camera, then you can't really play the game. But an RPG is about its story, not the camera or the graphics. If you're not talking about me, well then I've been yakking on for a while now for no reason watsoever. C'est la vie. And I do have to agree with you completey about Xenosaga. Especially if you ever got the transforming robot dude for Shina(?), you can dispatch everyboss with ease. It does 9,999 dmg, final boss has 14,000 HP. Too easy for my tastes, but some of the more annoying bosses certainly made this easier for me to deal with.

[Patricoo]

With Xenosaga, I found myself wanting cinema scenes and not wanting gameplay. It wasn't that the gameplay sucked, it was that the gameplay got stale sometimes.

I actually figured out why it seemed boring. There was no background music. Moving around was fun and all, but actually there was no walk around music. At all. Ever. Not even when you were running away.

FF7 wasn't so diffrent from the others and it's considered the best by many. And a pure example of the basics is my favorite FF6. Sure Materia and Summon equipping put a new spin on it, but it's okay to have diffrent leveling systems. Each FF has had a diffrent way of equipping and gaining abilities. Personally FF9 leveling system was the best and FF8 was the worst. (Wtf was junction? I still don't get it today) But the battle should stay the same. I always enjoyed 4 charactors in my RPG's and I loved it real time. No more stopping and thinking for the wusses (FF10) No more using the same damn 5 or 6 abilities over and over because they are the only kick ass ones (FFX-2 e.g. Trigger Happy).

I loved FF9. FF9 is my 3rd favorite. So god damned close to 7. Why? THERE WAS NOTHING NEW IN IT. The whole freakin game had next to everything from the old ones. Go and check. Hell even the giant Library idea is stolen from FF5. And you know what, it only took the good stuff. It was fun. I enjoyed the amazingly fast thinking you sometimes had to do with 4 charactors when they all where ready at the same time.

FF9 showed that just because you had Final Fantasy in 3-D doesn't mean it HAS to be 'new' or 'innovative'. If Square wants to make a "spankin' new" FF, then they better do it by working on the gameplay, and ignore the graphics for a few seconds. I don't need all that detail if the game sucks.

Unfortunatly Square can throw any crap with Final Fantasy on it and everyone will go buy it. *sighs*

EDIT:
I promised I would didn't I? I DID! I DID!

[AndyBloodredMage]

No more stopping and thinking for the wusses (FF10)

This game required actual thought and planning, it wasn't the standard "jam the X button to attack till they die" tactic. Most enemies required a special way to take them down, while stilling having multiple ways to kill them. I like the ATB system as much as the next, but a turn-based system is certainly a nice change of pace, to say the least.

[summoner_hultsima]

Keep it turned based... I'm not a big fan of the ATB system.

[AndyBloodredMage]

Sorry for the complete lack of topic post, but I just want to say summoner_hultsima, I really like your avator. Most cool and showing of Zell's love of Balamb's hotdogs. He's also one of my favorite characters of that game, even if he's not the most powerful.

[Hunter_Shu]

This game required actual thought and planning, it wasn't the standard "jam the X button to attack till they die" tactic. Most enemies required a special way to take them down, while stilling having multiple ways to kill them. I like the ATB system as much as the next, but a turn-based system is certainly a nice change of pace, to say the least.
I'm sorry, but the FFX setup degenerated into this.
Use Lulu on Mages, Wakka on non-magical fliers, Auron and Kimahri on armored things, Yuna on anything big, Tidus on lighter enemies, and Rikku on Machina. That wasn't original or thoughtful. It was annoying. As for ATB, FFX-2 removes some of the button mashing with the combos, since you had to at least hold off a little if you wanted to time it with a special attack.

[AndyBloodredMage]

I'm speaking in the intent of the system, not in the execution.

[BMHadoken]

Yes...his fascination and obsession with...'hot dogs'...

If you put the ATB system on 'WAIT' mode, its basically turn based, and its not that big a deal if you don't get hit three times while you try to select Firaga on 'ACTIVE'.

I'm all for change...good change, if I see another FF8, I'm writing mean letters...or just posting online about how much it sucks four years later.

[Patricoo]

I'm speaking in the intent of the system, not in the execution.

guh....If I made a game with the INTENT to be awesome, but it sucked ass, does it matter? How often in FF10 did you use Aeons?! Summons should be 1 hit with MP consuption. You stick them out in battle, it sounds cool, and is for the most part. But after a while you end up using them over and over. and on every boss too.

"Oh here comes Jecht!"
"I'LL STOP YOU DAD! .....err....yuna, summon something"
"IXION! Dead. VALEFOR. Dead. SHIVA. Dead. BAHAMUT. Dead. IFRIT. Dead. ANIMA. Pwned cuz he got weak."

It's basicly how most all major battles were fought. The others were 1 hit kills like 'Auron attack that! dead.' 'Wakka hit the bird! dead.' over and over

EDIT:
Read this. You damn well better. Everyone.http://www.drunkduck.com/How_to_Make_a_Sprite_Comic_in_Eight_Easy_Bits/index.php
...actually you need to jump to the comic that says "19: (interlude) Sad But True." You can't just put links to the specific comic unfortunatly.

[AndyBloodredMage]

I disagree with what the comic is insinuating, but it still was hilarious.

EDIT: I mean i disagree that X-2 was a bad game, not that any FF will sell incredibly well, regardless of its quality.

[Patricoo]

I agree wholeheartedly. I have perfect examples. My brother didn't really WANT FFX-2. He just bought it. In fact he has yet to beat it.

[Hunter_Shu]

This joke has been done by Hsu and Chan already. I agreed with it then, I agree with it now. As long as the words Final Fantasy are in the title, it will sell horribly well, no matter how bad the game is.

[Patricoo]

EDIT: I mean i disagree that X-2 was a bad game, not that any FF will sell incredibly well, regardless of its quality.

This game should be called Side Quest: The Game!

It was a crap game. The battle system was well done, I'll give them that. But the rest of the damn thing sucked. I was this close to ripping my hair out and replaceing it with my eyes.

[Krylo]

It was a crap game. The battle system was well done, I'll give them that. But the rest of the damn thing sucked. I was this close to ripping my hair out and replaceing it with my eyes.If you actually take the time to play it without thinking it's going to be shitty, you'd notice the plot isn't suppose to be this big beautiful thing. They took a basically serious idea: getting Tidus back/Vegnagun/Lenne, and then just put a bunch of comedy over it. It's meant to be fun, not serious... which it pulls off very well. If the boss battles were a little harder it'd be one of the most 'fun', but definately not one of the best, RPGs I've played. It's the only one in which I actually ENJOY random battles. They aren't a means to an end in this one, they're fun. There are other games where random battles aren't bad... and maybe even enjoyable, but not fun. And the character interactions are usually relatively humorous... particularily Brother and Buddy.

Anyway, that out of my system...
guh....If I made a game with the INTENT to be awesome, but it sucked ass, does it matter? How often in FF10 did you use Aeons?! Summons should be 1 hit with MP consuption. You stick them out in battle, it sounds cool, and is for the most part. But after a while you end up using them over and over. and on every boss too.

"Oh here comes Jecht!"
"I'LL STOP YOU DAD! .....err....yuna, summon something"
"IXION! Dead. VALEFOR. Dead. SHIVA. Dead. BAHAMUT. Dead. IFRIT. Dead. ANIMA. Pwned cuz he got weak."
...I didn't use Aeons at all by the time I was at Sin. Actually... I killed Jecht in about five rounds with Tidus. I never bothered tossing power ups to my Aeons because I'd rather use those items to customize equipment, and that left my Aeons to gain stats by a multiplier to Yuna's stats. Well, Yuna sucked horribly unless she summoned something until the end of the game, when you could get her off the shitty white mage track and onto a fighter track... so she was never used, and was so under leveled that Tidus had a higher Str stat than Bahamut and Animus combined.

As a result I found the battles much more interesting. Even though my characters were stronger than the Aeons, if I wanted them to live (as that Aeons die too, as you pointed out), I would have to strategize. I.E. use delay busters at the right times, use hastes, equip characters properly to avoid status changes against some bosses. The last time I actually used Aeons, on that note, was against the monster at the summit of gagazet, which gave all those damned status effects, and I was so ingrained by then not to use them, that I lost the fight (due to being put to sleep/silenced/confused/etc. multiple times every battle) about three times before I remembered that Aeons are immune to status change.

Besides, the last boss and every seymour past the first, would just destroy your aeons with a wave of his hand... well the last boss possessed them, but still.

Oh yah... I never used Wakka either, because his story character annoyed the hell out of me. I used magic for flies. I would have beaten the shit out of him every time he said, "ya?" if the game was more open ended. Tidus, however, had a reason for being 'whiny', which he really isn't if you take a moment to look at the story... but that's obviously asking FAR too much of most final fantasy fanboys. "I don't care if he's a dynamic character who slowly changes and becomes less selfish throughout the story, realizing that he has to sacrifice himself to destroy Sin completely, and then doing so. No, I also don't care that he lived in a peaceful technologically advanced utopia, and was suddenly thrust back into a place much like the middle ages, only with much more death and an even more corrupt version of the catholic church. He complained about it so I hate him! He also complained when he found out that his little girlfriend was running off to kill herself! That whiny prick!" Yah.

Speaking of which... I'm not buying Crystal Chronicles (because from what I hear it sucks if you aren't playing multiplayer, and there's little story to speak of), or XI. MMORPG... bleh. So no... just because I actually like most final fantasy games, regardless of other people's opinions, that doesn't mean I'm a fanboy.

[Patricoo]

...ouch. Owned by Krylo.

Well actually I never found Tidus to be winey. So many people complained about that, and I didn't notice that at all. Now, apparently you never took Tidus out of battle, thats fine. But I went for the easier method unknowingly. And apparently so did many other of my friends. In fact, I don't think I ever gave my aeons much either. I just made them attack/special ability.

*sigh* I can't counter now. I'm too tired from that big post I made in the TFT topic. (I don't have the edurance you have Krylo. Or half your IQ for that matter.) But I promised a rant once in this topic. I'll do it again.

EDIT:
I can say this though. I know they tried to make FFX-2 funny, and happy and joyful, but they almost completly avoided the main plot. I sat and watched, and played, and the whole game was little itty-bitty extra stuff all over. Again and again I did things like play a game with math against people (which is funny because there is no way you can play against anyone else in that game) mate monkies, and basicly waste my time helping people left and right, when honestly they don't truly need my help.

See you got me goin. I'm stopping now.

[BMHadoken]

Again and again I did things like play a game with math against people (which is funny because there is no way you can play against anyone else in that game) mate monkies, and basicly waste my time helping people left and right, when honestly they don't truly need my help.
Ya know, you don't have to do any of that stuff. Its all sidequests, just go to the hotspots and stop complaining. Of course, if you did breeze through it like that, then you'd complain that it was too short, not fleshed out enough, bitch, bitch, bitch...

I like FF10-2. Its fun, you can really change the story, and it actually is better on a subsequent playthrough. (I never noticed how nervous Paine gets around Baralai and Nooj until I played it twice)

And the Via Infinito is a hella lot better than the Monster Arena, and a hella lot harder.

[Patricoo]

My point is why can't it have crap loads of cool mini games and side quests. Like FF7 had sub hunting, motercycle riding, and snowboarding. That kept me amused for hours. Even Blitzball. No, the other stuff was 5 minute editions.

[rightwhatwasidoing?]

i never played 10-2, don't like the whole idea. tidus was dead, so why is he back? maybe if it had to do with a way to bring him back from the dead, I might have bought it. anyway...

i seriously liked 10, it was fun to a point, and the battles usually had secretive ways of winning. Unfortunately the bosses were too easy.

I am Jeht, the LAST BOSS, kill me and you win!
Yuna: okay, anima.
Ainima attacks-.....
Jeht: ow, i guess i just pull this sword out of my gut now...
Anima Limit break-....
Jeht: ah, okay you WIN!

I liked 9. for some reason it was just a lot more fun to steal from the enemy and get all the goods, probably because of the "weapon teaches skill" thing, I actually like that, and im suprised not many people do.

[StormRider]

I play blitzball all the time. Eventually, I basically turned the Aurochs into Tidus and other people who give Tidus the ball.

[MFD]

Change is good. However, I've always found games lacking in sidequests. That should be the next area they refine. ATB was perfected by FFVI, they try a new ability system every game. I've heard good things about the sphere system and I like the Ability system of IX. But they ought to refine their sidequests. The card game in VIII was confusing, and forcing me to play the random one in IX was mean spirited. And they expected you to win.

[Nique]

Tidus, however, had a reason for being 'whiny', which he really isn't if you take a moment to look at the story... but that's obviously asking FAR too much of most final fantasy fanboys. "I don't care if he's a dynamic character who slowly changes and becomes less selfish throughout the story, realizing that he has to sacrifice himself to destroy Sin completely, and then doing so. No, I also don't care that he lived in a peaceful technologically advanced utopia, and was suddenly thrust back into a place much like the middle ages, only with much more death and an even more corrupt version of the catholic church. He complained about it so I hate him! He also complained when he found out that his little girlfriend was running off to kill herself! That whiny prick!" Yah.

Quite the defense, Krylo. I applaude you. The change in Tidus charecter was subtle... but definitive. He WAS whiny in the first part of the game, which made him irritating, but I realized "hey, hes like... normal. He's not saying "whatever" uncaringly every chance he gets, and he isn't carrying around a mako-infused ego... He's whining about crap becuase hes in a crappy situation... Hell, I'D Whine!"

Tidus may have whined. He may have had a daddy issue... but man... WHAT a daddy issue it was. Plus hes a cool-kinda jock anyway... Good charecter.

[AndyBloodredMage]

Yea he did have a bit of a complex in terms of his father.

[Patricoo]

i never played 10-2, don't like the whole idea. tidus was dead, so why is he back? maybe if it had to do with a way to bring him back from the dead, I might have bought it. anyway...

Which makes me sad, that such a great great great unpredictably ending to a Final Fantasy would provoke a sequal!

I liked 9. for some reason it was just a lot more fun to steal from the enemy and get all the goods, probably because of the "weapon teaches skill" thing, I actually like that, and im suprised not many people do.

It's also like that in tactics, and people like tactics! It was my favorite weapon system, and for some reason, stealing didn't suck. In most other FFs it was "why bother stealing! I get some crap in a 1:50 chance when I can just hit for a crap load and get the gil to buy it" But in that, steal chance was high and the rewards didn't suck.

And for the reccord, I didn't find Tidus winey.

[BMHadoken]

Which makes me sad, that such a great great great unpredictably ending to a Final Fantasy would provoke a sequal!

You two DO realize that Tidus is still dead in FF10-2 right? It was Yuna vainly searching for just the smallest chance of a hope to bring him back, not "HEYA guys, I ain't died, I stills alive."

And those games where you mention stealing were liked because the game made it easy to steal. People are more willing to steal when the chance is right there (Thief classes always available) and the reward, while not garunteed, is attainable.

Good examples: FFT, FF9, FF10+FF10-2
Bad: FF8 (you need what, 300 Ap or whatever to get Bahumut, a secret really hard boss, to learn Mug, and all the enemies give paltry 1 AP)

[AndyBloodredMage]

its 200 AP, and all you have to do is beat the shannigans outta cactuars. Also, Diablos had mug.

[BMHadoken]

Oh goody, just have to wait till the fourth disk and fight super high agility creatures to get a basic skill.

[AndyBloodredMage]

leviathon or squall can easily kill these critters. Selphie, if you have her ultimate weapon. I have to say my two greatest achievements in that game have to do with Squall. I got the Punishment before the train fight against gregoreo, and the Lionheart before the fight against Seifer at the end of disc 2. How? you ask. Why through the magic of card-modding. I became a master at triple triad.

[Patricoo]

You two DO realize that Tidus is still dead in FF10-2 right? It was Yuna vainly searching for just the smallest chance of a hope to bring him back, not "HEYA guys, I ain't died, I stills alive."


which only proves my point. Why would you go on to tell the story about nothing! Like...."Lets look for him! Oh we didn't find him. Oh well. That sucks." Thats what FFX-2 felt like to me. FFX was good as is. I didn't want to know what happened to Wakka. He coulda died for all I cared. And riku was annoying as well. The only person that didn't suck was Auron, and you all know what happened to him.

[AndyBloodredMage]

Rikku mighta been slightly hyperactive, but she definitely was one of my favorite characters.

[Patricoo]

Battle wise yes, personality...well I can take it for a good while. But after a point, you just wanna punch her. Then your fine again, and 3 hours later your urge to kill rises again.

[AndyBloodredMage]

Battle wise yes, personality...well I can take it for a good while. But after a point, you just wanna punch her. Then your fine again, and 3 hours later your urge to kill rises again.
Actually... I really disliked her in battle. Her moves were low power, and I didn't want to waste all my good items trying to discover a good mixture. All you had to do was have Yuna take a quick detour and she can get Use and Steal pretty early. I still got her ultimate weapon, but just for completion's sake. My party consisted of Tidus, Wakka, Auron, and Lulu being switched in when doublecasting of Ultima was necessary (for 2 mp of course.)

[Patricoo]

Guh. I made some of the best mixes you could think of...One involved a level 4 lock sphere and some gernade. It did max damage 4 or 5 times. Well worth it.

[StormRider]

My party in FFX was always Tidus/Auron/Yuna or Lulu.

[mutantrabidweasle]

i just read one of the first few posts and some one made a mistake there are 12 numbered, tactics, tactics advance, mystic quest and all 3 legends for gameboy (most people forget those last 4)

[AndyBloodredMage]

we're only talking about the true RPG final fantasies. Of those, there are only 11, but 11 kind of counts.

[Lockeownzj00]

Oh, yeah, cause I forgot, RPGs have to be like ff1 or they don't count. "True RPGs." Huh.

The only ones that honestly dont count are the ones not made by square originally and just had the name FF slapped on them to make them sell more, those being the gameboy ones. T and TA are perfectly valid, however. Why doesn't XI 'not count?'

[AndyBloodredMage]

When I said true Rpgs, I meant remotely RPG in nature. And as far as my 11 comment goes, I said it does count, albeit barely. From what my friends tell me (I've never played the game) it's more along the lines of Diablo then having an actual plot. Again, not what I said, so don't flame me for this.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

When I said true Rpgs, I meant remotely RPG in nature. And as far as my 11 comment goes, I said it does count, albeit barely. From what my friends tell me (I've never played the game) it's more along the lines of Diablo then having an actual plot. Again, not what I said, so don't flame me for this.

Just to clarify....both Diablo and FFXI are MMO'RPG's. A different form of RPG. But again, with how broad the name 'RPG' is, you could say Metroid is an RPG and have a way of backing it up.

Not that I'm suggesting we do that again....hey look, its a Mog! :eek:

But uh, on topic. I think Final Fantasy would be best if it would return to the atmosphere of FFVI, the trying of original things like VIII and the creation of a new gaming system like X. XII is said to have a new type of battle engine again, and it seems to be a very interesting more 'fantasy' looking world (although still with lots of technology). We'll just see if all the other innovative ideas come.

[Priest4hire]

Diablo is a rogue-like with multiplayer added in. Though that it seems like a MMORPG isn't that surprising. There's definitely a similarity between the rogue-like and the MUD. And the MMORPG is really the MUD brought into the graphical era.

When I said true Rpgs, I meant remotely RPG in nature.

Hmm, Final Fantasy Tactics seem to have all that it takes.
Stats...check.
Character building...check.
Combat driven gameplay...check.
Indirect stat driven combat...check.

So what's missing that makes FFT not even remotely RPG in nature?

PS. Hmm, what element(s) does Metroid have that belongs to the RPG genre and can?t be accounted for in the action/adventure or FPS genre?