An Open Letter to Nintendo

[Lord Setheris]

Dear Nintendo,

I have been a Nintendo gamer since the dawn of my life. One of my earliest memories is sitting on the floor, struggling to beat the last level of world 1-4 in Super Mario Bros. before rushing to dinner. I've every generation of gameboy including Pocket, Color, Advance, and Advance SP, and I am currently an owner of a DS. I also own a Nintendo Wii.

In the 90s, the Super Nintendo was my life. It stole countless hours from me and made me a unsociable geek. I regret nothing of those days. I played the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube, and I remained loyal throughout those troubled days as you battled against the PS2 and Xbox.

Nowadays, the games I await most anxiously are nothing more than sequels or remakes. Chrono Trigger DS, Final Fantasy 4 DS, Metroid Prime 3, Animal Crossing Wild World and so many others are simply remakes or continuations of other franchises which you have nurtured for many years. A vast number of the wii games seem like nothing more than silly gimmicks or excuses to play around with motion controls.

I feel as though the magic of Nintendo is beginning to fade away, and I don't want to live in a world where Nintendo is not a godlike force. Nintendo, you invented the P-Switch in Super Mario Bros. 3 on the NES. This switch turned blocks into coins, which is exactly what the wii has done for countless 3rd party games. But I fear that the ticking has begun, and unless another switch is found, these coins will soon again turn back into useless bricks.

On behalf of myself and many other gamers everywhere, I would simply like to request that you make an original and non-gimmicky fun game to rekindle my love of your systems and company.

With love,
Lord Setheris

[Regulus Tera]

I feel as though the magic of Nintendo is beginning to fade away, and I don't want to live in a world where Nintendo is not a godlike force.

Dear Lord Setheris,

http://i34.tinypic.com/35bib01.gif http://i37.tinypic.com/if09j5.gif http://i37.tinypic.com/2jb8c52.gif http://i36.tinypic.com/2hs9b0n.gif


Hugs and kisses,
Nintendo

[synkr0nized]

Maybe someone less biased should pretend to be Nintendo, RT.


Not that a letter like this posted randomly on a forum is gonna spark a movement or anything.

[Regulus Tera]

Maybe someone less biased should pretend to be Nintendo, RT.

Point taken.

That said, I just find it funny that he's complaining about sequels when everyone in the industry except EA is doing it.

[POS Industries]

everyone in the industry except EA is doing it.
Madden would disagree with you.

[Fifthfiend]

Except he's too busy counting his money.

[bluestarultor]

Madden would disagree with you.

Oh, thank God. I thought the world was ending there for a second.


I'd just like to point out that you're asking for two different things and getting them both. Wii has a ton of shovelware, yes, but the shovelware is all new, isn't it? In comparison, PS3 has nothing on it, and what it IS getting is two new FF games, KH3, and a ton of other sequels in its own right. Even good original games are less than perfect. Do you have any idea how many games try to shoehorn in Six Axis? Folklore made it necessary in ways I didn't even know it WORKED to catch enemies. And there's an FPS where you have to shake it to put the fire out if you get hit with napalm.

I'd say Wii's selection is probably the best and that its use of the entire point of its own control system isn't going to stop. If you're not playing new games because they're handled by what the Wii was essentially made for, there's the Classic Controller and GameCube games, or plenty of stuff on their network to buy.


Edit:
Or for that matter, you could just accept your realization that the Wii is a gimmick and be done with it. It's the most obvious one since the Virtual Boy, or maybe Power Glove.

[Jagos]

To be fair, it's a gimmick that works whereas the SixAxis kinda sucks.

[bluestarultor]

To be fair, it's a gimmick that works whereas the SixAxis kinda sucks.

That was kinda my point. :sweatdrop

[Seil]

Hey now - SIXAXIS works just fine. It's just the way they choose to implement it. Some games don't need it, but they put it there anyway, some games it works well with. The Wii has a lot of games that have dandy control schemes, but are total and utter crap.

There's a happy medium for both motion sensor sensorings.

[Kim]

Lord Setheris,

Go buy a DS. There are lots of non-sequel games that rock all that is win.

Love,
NonCon

PS: Apparently, you have a DS. Go play with it some more. It misses you.

[Jagos]

Hey now - SIXAXIS works just fine. It's just the way they choose to implement it. Some games don't need it, but they put it there anyway, some games it works well with. The Wii has a lot of games that have dandy control schemes, but are total and utter crap.

There's a happy medium for both motion sensor sensorings.

Heavenly Sword was decent without it. With it, there was just a lot more frustration when fighting as the little girl going "Twang, twang"

[Mirai Gen]

Part of me agrees with you, but the other part of me remembers watching Angry Video Game Nerd's rant about NES accessories and realizing that most of them were taken from the 1980s, re-wrapped in white plastic, and sold back to us a second time.

[Jagos]

Let's also remember that Konami had a rep for this for years, which isn't a bad thing since Track and Field is still a fun game that precedes DDR by a LOOONG time. I'm still trying to find out why all sequels are bad when it does lead to newer innovations.

[Fortune Zero]

Yeah, Nintendo's not really rolling into this category worse than the other systems are. "Original" and "non-gimmicky" are both pretty subjective, mainly, and some Wii games (hello there No More Heroes) are quite a bit more original than alot of the system specialties on other systems (hello there Heavenly Sword). It all depends on what you're looking at and what you consider original.

Plus, people bitch when totally new things are done.

Remember how people bitched about Wind Waker being too different?

And then bitched about how Twilight Princess wasn't different enough...?

It's a sign of the times more than anything. I got into a conversation with my manager about that earlier today. Games are just... shitty now. In general. Games are shorter and less entertaining than they used to be. Game companies don't have to try as hard, not even the ones that have the money to do so. Wii would definitely win if there was some sort of shovelware contest--I won't argue against that--but it's weird to hear how games like Mario Galaxy and De Blob are unoriginal or gimmicky versus--I don't know--Dead Rising, Fallout 3, Fable II, Halo 3, Gears of War 2, etc., etc., etc. Not saying those games are bad, but when did the other systems start passing this magical "original and non-gimmicky" peace pipe I keep hearing about?

Everybody's got good games and everybody's got bad games. 95% of games in general aren't original, or try to pass off something specific and mildly unnecessary as innovation. I can't honestly say that the Wii's best games are less original than the 360 or PS3's best games, and I certainly can't say that the Wii has fewer quality hits than the PS3 does. 360's a different story as far as the number of quality games is concerned, but you can't really fault Nintendo for that--the 360 is damn good at what it does.

[Kim]

It was much easier to be original when you could make a game about an Italian plumber who gets bigger by eating mushrooms, spits fire by eating flowers, can fly if he eats a brown leaf, stomps on goombas and little turtles, and is trying to save a princess from some sort of turtle dragon. If it wasn't an established franchise today, and someone tried to make it, there's no way in hell it would fly.

[Fortune Zero]

Not to mention a blue hedgehog. Blue! Absolutely preposterous.

[Seil]

I took Kai's "Twing Twang" bits as really fun story intervals, and I had great fun aiming arrows in people's skulls.

I won't deny that maybe SIXAXIS is Sony's response to the motion sensors of the Wii, however, I will argues that they're different - most Wii games rely on motion sensing, while many PS3 games that use SA give you the option not to use SA. They both work in different contexts.

That being said, I guess it's not for everyone.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I haven't used Sixaxis in 6 months and 15 games. It is not important in any way to the ps3. It is completely irrelevant in all arguments against ps3 and for the Wii, so stop whining about it.

No ps3 user cares if it's crap, because we didn't want it anyway, but now it's there, unused and we don't care, whereas the Wiis big selling point is it's motion control, which most of the time is for crap games.

Completely different markets, completely different implementation, completely different feelings towards each implementation.

[Nikose Tyris]

Dear Lord Setheris,

We're so happy to hear you're still supporting us in our projects and endeavours. It's hard to capture the magic locked into those first days of Mario, but beleive us, we are trying our best. We're quite proud of our recent success on both Super Mario Galaxy, Tales of Symphonia II, Super Smash Bros: Brawl, and numerous other games. We thank you for your steady support of our gaming platforms and handheld systems.

We never really saw it as a battle; the Playstation and Xbox both had their own niche in the gaming community to fill, and while the decreased market share did impact us, we still hold strong as the most common system- we also target a much wider audience then either the Playstation or the Xbox, in that we have games for all ages as our primary releases. We try not to rest on the laurels of the Nintendo 64 or the Nintendo Gamecube- we are truly always trying to revolutionize our systems, to bring you the most satisfaction possible.

While we are aware that there is an increase in classic game re-releases, and in sequels, we are attempting to revive the classic titles that you loved, and bring them up to date in a newer platform- many people missed out on the fun of Chrono Trigger, or the original metroid games, and we want to make available these wonderful classics for everyone. we have numerous projects that utilize the Wii's control system, but we are focusing on Online Multiplayer more. While the specialized Wii Controls are one of the features that make our system unique, we try to always include other control options, such as the classic controller.

We are doing our best to counteract the 'loss of the magic' as you so aptly put it, by bringing back classics and doing our best to 're-ignite' that old fire. Unfortunately, many games are in the hands of the developers, and not directly with us. We are merely the gaming platform that games such as Chrono Trigger are released. In fact, we do very few in-house games- same as with Sony and Microsoft. We are working on several titles for late '09, and we're projecting a fall release for said titles. Hopefully these coins of games won't be at all brick-like.

On behalf of Nintendo, and all our game developers, we encourage you to continue buying our products, and supporting gaming- but if you wish to encourage new games to be developed, you could write letters to other development teams, such as Capcom, Namco, Grin Entertainment, or another game development sponsor, and list your concerns or what you'd like to see in an upcoming game- we are all always happy to listen.

Faithfully,

Nintendo.

[phil_]

So, can I be the guy who says "Games aren't easier or shorter, you're just older and don't replay games anymore?" 'Cause I'm willing to be that guy, at least today.

Seriously, I was reading some journalist complain about how Mario was released last year instead of this year. It's just mind boggling. Hey, guess what? It was a great game last year, and it's the same game it was when you left it. Go play it again, like you did when you were 10 and life revolved around Super Mario World.

I mean, I know he can't because he has to play new games to write reviews, but, still, a year is not a long time between Mario games.

I guess what I'm saying is that I have fun with my games, and I actually play them more than once. I still (and I think it's rediculous that I have to use "still" there) play Brawl, and it's still awesome. I play through Rock Band, even though I've unlocked all the songs, because it's fun to play. Hell, I still occasionally play Wii Sports, because the tennis game is still fun, the golf game is still fun, and bowling's still fun. What I'm saying here is, yeah, there are good games out there, and if you play them like when you were a kid, you can have fun like when you were a kid. Except you won't die as much. Well, unless you play merciless games like Dokapon Kingdom that that several weeks to finish a game and will repeatedly leave you naked and dying in the woods. Or just dead. Or destroy your rare item that took planning from the beginning of the game to obtain and laugh at you for it. It's a mean game.

[synkr0nized]

Dear Lord Setheris,
[...]
Faithfully,

Nintendo.

That was pretty good, actually.

[Jagos]

So, can I be the guy who says "Games aren't easier or shorter, you're just older and don't replay games anymore?" 'Cause I'm willing to be that guy, at least today.

I guess the most apt way to put it, is that the best game out there is the one we haven't played.

Everyone will say, "Oh this game was good and this game wasn't for X reason." But then, no one can be happy with what they have. Hell, I'm still playing Valkyrie Profile because that game was pretty good and has yet to be finished by me.

[Lord Setheris]

Since I'm clearly the only one who feels something has been lost from Nintendo lately, it is easy for me to determine that I am insane and therefore my opinions invalid.

Thank you everybody.

[Squall Leonhart]

Since I'm clearly the only one who feels something has been lost from Nintendo lately, it is easy for me to determine that I am insane and therefore my opinions invalid.

Thank you everybody.If it makes you feel any better, IGN just ran an article (http://wii.ign.com/articles/933/933583p1.html) with similar sentiments than j00.

[Loyal]

I'm sure that modern-day Wii titles are just as magical for the newer generations, as games like Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda were for us.

[Lord Setheris]

I'm sure that modern-day Wii titles are just as magical for the newer generations, as games like Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda were for us.

In all honesty I hadn't considered this element of it.

Maybe I'm just outgrowing my childhood games?

[phil_]

If it makes you feel any better, IGN just ran an article (http://wii.ign.com/articles/933/933583p1.html) with similar sentiments than j00.And that's the article I was calling stupid in my last post. Because, geeze, coming out last year is not a valid argument against Prime 3 or Galaxy.

[Loyal]

In all honesty I hadn't considered this element of it.

Maybe I'm just outgrowing my childhood games?Pretty much. You can learn to live with it and enjoy it for what it is, or step aside (whether quietly or noisily is up to the individual's discretion) and make room for the new generation. I for one am going with the first option.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I'm sure that modern-day Wii titles are just as magical for the newer generations, as games like Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda were for us.

We may disagree on alot of stuff, but I fully back 100% what you say.

When I play Mario Galaxy or Twilight princess, it's like being 5 years old and playing Zelda or Mario for the first time.

There is a bit of Magic with those games that take me back to when I was too young to know how many bits was in a game or how big the HD was. Those games were fun, simple as that.

[Krylo]

I'm sure that modern-day Wii titles are just as magical for the newer generations, as games like Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda were for us.

I would both agree and disagree with this.

I'd agree that Twilight Princess and Prime are just as 'magical' for the newer generation as the original Legend of Zelda and Mario Brothers. However, those are not the majority of Wii games.

I highly doubt that AMF bowling pinbusters is as magical for this generation as games like Contra were for ours. There is a difference of depth and breadth (for the time) between the majority of Wii games and those NES games we still remember and/or those games which are currently coming out for the Wii's competition. I'm actually pretty sure that when tomorrow's generation of gamers looks back at what games were 'magical' for them, they'll be talking about Fable 2, Mass Effect, etc. as opposed to the majority of Wii games.

The Wii is simply not a system which sees 'core' gamers as it's core demographic. Unlike Setheris, I'm not going to say that's a bad thing. Getting more people into gaming is a good thing, even if that means the people who have been playing for ages are no longer the target demographic of a particular system--because once they learn to enjoy video games, many of these people will learn to enjoy deeper and better video games.

Besides--more money going into gaming means more people will attempt to create games, which means more games. Yeah, sure, that's going to mean more bad games, but it'll also mean more good games.

And that's the article I was calling stupid in my last post. Because, geeze, coming out last year is not a valid argument against Prime 3 or Galaxy.
He wasn't arguing against them, at all. I suggest re-reading the article.

What he WAS saying is that a company pointing at games that came out a year ago as justification for their 'continued commitment to core gamers' is ridiculous. Nintendo hasn't put out a good core game in ages, while other systems have been putting out a number of good core games. Fallout 3, Fable 2, Mercenaries 2, the new WoW expansion, Gears of War 2, etc. etc.

In the meantime what has Nintendo done? A copy-pasta of Animal Crossing with a bare minimum of (if any) innovation. Great to help those casuals get more into core games, not so great for those of us that have already played Animal Crossing and don't need to play the same game on a new system.

Again: I don't see what Nintendo has been doing as a bad thing. They're doing a good thing, both for their business, and the business of making games as a whole: getting more people interested in games.

That, however, doesn't mean that Setheris/IGN's complaints aren't valid ones.

Nintendo has turned it's back on the 'core' gamers.

Also, I hate the term 'core' and 'hardcore' but I'm not sure what else to call them/us.

Oh, and RT: Next time someone says that all a company is offering is sequels, you shouldn't post animated gifs of a sequel.

No More Heroes would have been a much better argument.

P.S. You guys, if you have a Wii and have not played No More Heroes, go and buy it. Especially you Seth. Especially you.

Edit:Go play it again, like you did when you were 10 and life revolved around Super Mario World.

[...]

I guess what I'm saying is that I have fun with my games, and I actually play them more than once. I still (and I think it's rediculous that I have to use "still" there) play Brawl, and it's still awesome. I play through Rock Band, even though I've unlocked all the songs, because it's fun to play. Hell, I still occasionally play Wii Sports, because the tennis game is still fun, the golf game is still fun, and bowling's still fun. What I'm saying here is, yeah, there are good games out there, and if you play them like when you were a kid, you can have fun like when you were a kid. Except you won't die as much. .

This is pretty invalid to this argument as well, honestly.

Sure, you can go back and replay Mario Galaxy or whatever, but why should we when we can play amazing new games on other systems: or, if we ARE going to replay games, how about Resistance: Fall of Man, Heavenly Sword, Drake's Fortune, Eternal Sonata, Mass Effect, Bio Shock, Devil May Cry 4, Assassin's Creed, Lost Odyssey, Blacksite: Area 51, Portal, Beautiful Katamari, etc? Just because there are a couple of games for the Wii that might appeal to some 'core' gamers, that doesn't mean that they have anything resembling a real commitment to keeping our business.

IF Seth was talking about the gaming industry as a whole, I'd be right behind your argument, but instead he's talking about the Wii's lacking 'core' library specifically, and I just don't see how "Well go replay some games!" is at all a valid argument against a lacking library.

Also: My life never revolved around Super Mario World. I was more of an FF6 (which I'm replaying right now) and CT type of person.

[Jagos]

... Ok, seriously, this is about an appeal to the hardcore gamer?

If they don't like the Wii for the games, they shouldn't buy the Wii. It's not like they're hurting for sales at this point. But Nintendo is seriously doing something that the other two aren't necessarily doing in huge numbers:

Innovation

Seriously, Galaxy is an awesome game. I wouldn't care if it came out in 1999, I'd still want to own it. But it's ironic that they have Wii Fit and Boxing and yet people are saying that's not something great.

Personally, I'd love to get a Wii over a PS3. The games are fun and I am kinda older now. Gotta have something for when friends come over. ;)

[Regulus Tera]

Oh, and RT: Next time someone says that all a company is offering is sequels, you shouldn't post animated gifs of a sequel.

I was answering to the "Nintendo doesn't have the Nintendo magic anymore" comment, not to the "Nintendo sucks for making sequels and nothing else" one.

Which is still funny, because Nintendo has pumped out more original IPs this generation than the last.

[Krylo]

... Ok, seriously, this is about an appeal to the hardcore gamer?

If they don't like the Wii for the games, they shouldn't buy the Wii. I think a lot of it is that most 'hardcore gamers' grew up on Nintendo, and while a lot of us realized Nintendo wasn't where we wanted to be when the 64 and Gamecube gave us shitty libraries back to back, there's still quite a few who are just now breaking their company loyalty.

A lot of core gamers don't want to leave Nintendo, but are feeling more and more like they have no choice.

But Nintendo is seriously doing something that the other two aren't necessarily doing in huge numbers:

InnovationBecause it's not innovation if it doesn't have waggle controls, right?


Nintendo has pumped out more original IPs this generation than the last.Yeah, but when Last Generation was the Gamecube, that's not sayin' much.

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah, but when Last Generation was the Gamecube, that's not sayin' much.

For the suckiness that was the GameCube, Nintendo pumped out a shitload of new stuff during that time (Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, Drill Dozer, Golden Sun, Chibi Robo, Advance Wars, WarioWare...)

I put GBA stuff in there because any serious Nintendo fan know handhelds are where the shit's at with this company.

[Jagos]

I think a lot of it is that most 'hardcore gamers' grew up on Nintendo, and while a lot of us realized Nintendo wasn't where we wanted to be when the 64 and Gamecube gave us shitty libraries back to back, there's still quite a few who are just now breaking their company loyalty.

A lot of core gamers don't want to leave Nintendo, but are feeling more and more like they have no choice.

Maybe it's from having a more casual stance on it, but there is something for them. The games for the most part ARE still challenging from Nintendo, just a lot is different than having another generic FPS. Seriously, the Big N isn't really known for that which is what's defining the other two consoles. I doubt highly that a new GoldenEye or Perfect Dark (both Rare titles btw) would turn the tide. I just think people are making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to Nintendo having games that aren't all about processing polygons.

-Edit- I seriously think if Yokoi was still with the company, the 64 had a lot of potential. But he did drop the ball on the Virtual Boy but that's an entirely 'nother set of beans...

[Regulus Tera]

-Edit- I seriously think if Yokoi was still with the company, the 64 had a lot of potential. But he did drop the ball on the Virtual Boy but that's an entirely 'nother set of beans...

The N64 lost the war the moment it was announced it would use cartridges instead of CDs. No amount of Yokoi could have reversed that.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Has first party support really gotten that bad? I thought the problem was mainly the same one it's always been: unenthusiastic third parties.

[Kim]

... Ok, seriously, this is about an appeal to the hardcore gamer?

If they don't like the Wii for the games, they shouldn't buy the Wii. It's not like they're hurting for sales at this point. But Nintendo is seriously doing something that the other two aren't necessarily doing in huge numbers:



I hate the term hardcore gamer, because lately people seem to think it means football jock who plays too much Halo.

Honestly, "If they don't like the Wii for the games, they shouldn't buy the Wii."? That's what you're going with? Really? That seems like a flawed, almost petty, argument. Is Nintendo hurting for money? No, but I can't remember any recent game to come out for the Wii that I actually gave a damn about. The only one I'm looking forward to right now is No More Heroes 2. The only one. Maybe I missed something, but there is probably a problem with your games library if that's the only game actual gamers are looking forward to. It doesn't even come out till 2010. Maybe I just don't understand how AWESOME Wii Music is. Or there's... Sonic Unleashed?

I give Nintendo props for trying to be innovative, but when you focus on being innovative rather than coming out with games for your loyal fanbase, rather than old people and small children who don't know any better, I can't help but think you're doing something wrong.

[Regulus Tera]

Has first party support really gotten that bad? I thought the problem was mainly the same one it's always been: unenthusiastic third parties.

Nintendo of America dropped the ball and forgot that they had Disaster, Fatal Frame 4, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, Professor Layton and Pandora's Box, Card Hero, that Heracles game for DS and Tenchu 4 to localise for this holiday. The other branches (NCL and NoE) are in fact doing an amazing job.

Regarding third parties, this thread is a good place to start (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=341519). 2009 seems to be a killer year for Wii.

[Kim]

Isn't Fatal Frame 4 the one directed by Suda 51? And we aren't getting that cuz why?

I could always use another Professor Layton as well.

[Jagos]

I use hardcore gamer to mean someone that goes to fully complete a game. It's not enough to get 100% on a game. It's enough to get 100% of everything, beat the game with a blindfold and one hand eating a turkey sandwich with your mouth underwater. That's what I mean by hardcore. You'll play this game to death before you trade it in for the story. Kinda what I want to do for Mirror's Edge but that's another story.

With that defined, I know of quite a few gamers that could do that and become the new Wii hardcore. Also, the Wii isn't defined by this gamer. It's defined by the first party almost exclusively. Who make good products. I mean, I'm not against the Wii. Hell, I don't have one. But they did a damn good job of keeping people satisfied for the last 2-3 years.

And to answer this:

but I can't remember any recent game to come out for the Wii that I actually gave a damn about.

Punch-Out. Nuff said.

[Zilla]

Blue, you make a good point about asking for two different things, but LS makes a good point as well. I've converted away from Nintendo. I loved Gamecube, and I had high hopes for the Wii, but nothing. Brawl disappointed me. Red Steel was mediocre. The only things I actually used my Wii for were Twilight Princess, also available for Gamecube, and Guitar Hero III, and that's cross platform. I tried, oh how I tried to love it, and for a year, I held out hope, but then I got a 360 from eBay and haven't looked back since. The last game I bought for Wii was Endless Ocean, which I must say I am satisfied with, but I haven't been able to play that game since the first week I bought it. Oblivion and GTA IV already make up for my entire Wii library.

Edit: Hey, who put 4 pages of discussion in here?

I do feel disenfranchised by Nintendo. I've gotten to the point where I don't care about keeping up with Wii releases because it's been such a long drought. While reading those pages I missed, I remembered I did play Wii Sports quite a bit and Boom Blox was pretty fun, but they weren't really the kind of games I'm looking for.

N64 did not fail, it's one of the best systems and libraries I can think of. It had a GREAT good-to-bad game ratio and a ton of unsung awesome titles (Hybrid Heaven, Flying Dragon, Body Harvest, WinBack (one without crappy voice acting), the BEST Harvest Moon, the BEST StarFox, the BEST F-Zero). Gamecube was a start of a downfall perhaps, but it still was very well done and had a more-than-decent and competitive library. Melee was a game that I kept playing until about October, and that was just because I moved away from the people I used to play with, and they all bought into Brawl while I didn't. The GameCube had a ton of great games on it, and a lot of them weren't first party. Second Sight, TimeSplitters 2, XIII, WarioWare Inc, Luigi's Mansion, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, PSO, Animal Crossing, NEARLY the best Harvest Moon (Magical Melodies, not A Wonderful Life), Tales of Symphonia, ...

I actually feel like I'm running dry on the gamecube already, but there were some good ones.


Another case in point, when was the last time Penny-Arcade did a strip about a Wii game? Hell, how about any online comic? I think Fanboys did one about the Nintendo press conference, but there's been a lack of real substance coming out for the fanbase. Just a generation ago, it was Xbox for the casual gamers who couldn't respect the intense nuances of deep gameplay, Playstation for the loads of content and shovelware, and Nintendo for the stalwart hardcore fans that had been with the industry for a long time. Now, those positions have really shuffled. Nintendo seems to be the Mom and Pop system, the one that kids will get made fun of while their peers are playing the serious games on the 360, and PlayStation has gone from offering the plethora of varied third party support to the lone outsider that almost tries to cater to the audience Nintendo had but without Nintendo's reliability and price.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I have pretty much the exact opposite experience of Zilla. I never play my 360 anymore and pretty much exclusively play my Wii.
Why?
Because the "hardcore" games just don't resonante with me anymore. Somewhere along the line "hardcore gaming" seems to have become first person shooters, not a favoured genre of mine, and related games where I'm a guy running around shooting/stabbing people. None of the big titles on the 360 interest me and the last one I played was GTA 4 which was same old, same old.
The Wii has loads of crap and bollocks on it but it is more varied crap and bollocks and I can at least get some visceral pleasure out of it.

[Mirai Gen]

SMB I don't think that's fair, considering most of the games that have the first person perspective are so incredibly not a FPS (Which is a majority of what is coming out right now and in the future).

Fallout 3. I mean, really.
The Wii has loads of crap and bollocks on it but it is more varied crap and bollocks and I can at least get some visceral pleasure out of it.
And...I don't even know what to say about this. You like getting varied and different stuff despite it being garbage? Um, okay?

Reason I usually play my 360 is because it's the only way I can kill some time without completely destroying my arm muscles, and I'm a big fan of online. Which Nintendo has made quite clear they hate.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

SMB I don't think that's fair, considering most of the games that have the first person perspective are so incredibly not a FPS (Which is a majority of what is coming out right now and in the future).

Fallout 3. I mean, really.

And...I don't even know what to say about this. You like getting varied and different stuff despite it being garbage? Um, okay?


The point was that everything is pretty garbage so I might as well have varied garbage than same old same old garbage. I haven't played any games on 360 I've really enjoyed.
Haven't played Fallout 3 so I can't comment on its gameplay but the setting is fairly hackneyed so I don't feel like playing.
ANd yeah I was totally exaggerating but I do find a lot of "sameness" on 360 titles which everyone seems to enjoy but not me.

[Grand Master Kickface]

I'll just leave this here. (http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html)

Even though the article is 3 and a half years old, it still holds true today and makes Nintendo's strategy perfectly lucid. Basically, if Nintendo doesn't expand the market base, no one else is going to, and eventually gaming will become more and more of a niche hobby until it stops existing altogether. It's only because Nintendo continually ropes in new players that video games have any longevity as a medium, and Wii was an absolutely necessary move for the industry's long-term health.

Now for some of my personal thoughts. I agree with Philbert in that we're all old and jaded and thusly the magic of games wears off much more quickly than it does for younger people. I played Sonic 3 and Knuckles for two years straight as a kid, and I am certain that it would be the same for Super Mario Galaxy if I was an 8-year-old kid today. Additionally, the prevalence of shovelware doesn't mean that deeper (I also despise the term "hardcore" in reference to games) suddenly stop existing; it just seems like it because we're thinking on a comparative level rather than looking at games individually. On that subject, the Wii is only 2 years old, and it looks to us like previous consoles had a greater number of good games because we're looking back on their entire 5-6 year catalog retrospectively. Just give it time.

Edit: Oh, and the DS by itself is pretty capable of satisfying the "hardcore" appetite. Etrian Odyssey and Contra 4 anyone?

[Jagos]

That's a nice article. After applying it to fighting games as well as RTS, it does make a lot of sense. EX: I could play Street Fighter II but when it came time for Street Fighter 3 I was left out, simply because I couldn't pull off all of the supers and combos to remain competitive in an arcade. I also like the conclusion for that article:

Nintendo’s strategy of pursuing innovation benefits the entire industry. It brings in new audiences and creates new genres that provide innovative and exciting experiences. The radical new controller is a great example of this strategy in action.

[Bells]

I'll just leave this here. (http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html)

Even though the article is 3 and a half years old, it still holds true today and makes Nintendo's strategy perfectly lucid. Basically, if Nintendo doesn't expand the market base, no one else is going to, and eventually gaming will become more and more of a niche hobby until it stops existing altogether. It's only because Nintendo continually ropes in new players that video games have any longevity as a medium, and Wii was an absolutely necessary move for the industry's long-term health.

Now for some of my personal thoughts. I agree with Philbert in that we're all old and jaded and thusly the magic of games wears off much more quickly than it does for younger people. I played Sonic 3 and Knuckles for two years straight as a kid, and I am certain that it would be the same for Super Mario Galaxy if I was an 8-year-old kid today. Additionally, the prevalence of shovelware doesn't mean that deeper (I also despise the term "hardcore" in reference to games) suddenly stop existing; it just seems like it because we're thinking on a comparative level rather than looking at games individually. On that subject, the Wii is only 2 years old, and it looks to us like previous consoles had a greater number of good games because we're looking back on their entire 5-6 year catalog retrospectively. Just give it time.

Edit: Oh, and the DS by itself is pretty capable of satisfying the "hardcore" appetite. Etrian Odyssey and Contra 4 anyone?

But you do know that even if that 50 billion dollars industry ever became "Niche" and then... dead. that would easily take more time to happen than we have to live... right?

I for one think that all 3 major companies dropped the ball big, this time. But Nintendo was more... painfull.

On one hand, we have the Hardware version of the Windows... the 360. Unstable, unreliable, dependant of 3rd party software to even make a living, but consumed by the masses.
On the other side, we have sony, who has a good product but cant get their head straight for 5 minutes to promote the thing without making it seem shit.

And then, there is nintendo... i just dont know what happened there. It's the gamecube all over again. we have a ton of Crapware and Shovelware, a handfull of new bright spots and a couple of First party diamonds

It's not about "Hardcore"... it's about normal. Common gamers are becoming "Hardcore" and non-gamers are becoming "Casual", who are the new "Common". To the point that if you play wiifit or cooking momma, you're casual. But if you play Mass effect, you're Hardcore... but in the end, what happens is that Nintendo isnt offering what was expected. Microsoft and Sony offer consistency. Nintendo, right now, dosent really have that... they offered revolutionary gaming, well... they are not delivering. there are VERY FEW games that are good, and would only work like that on the Wii or that are better on the Wii... those are the small revolutions Nintendo is bringing, but that was not what they sold. And now, second year in... people are starting to notice that.

Nintendo has drove itself into a corner, and i expect some big surprises in 2009, or else, i would bet the wii is going to have a shorter life.

[Squall Leonhart]

But you do know that even if that 50 billion dollars industry ever became "Niche" and then... dead. that would easily take more time to happen than we have to live... right?[...]Are you saying "why bother"? 'Cause expanding the market means increasing profit. Within your lifespan.

[...]Nintendo has drove itself into a corner, and i expect some big surprises in 2009, or else, i would bet the wii is going to have a shorter life.

[...]Regarding third parties, this thread is a good place to start (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=341519). 2009 seems to be a killer year for Wii.

[Bells]

Are you saying "why bother"? 'Cause expanding the market means increasing profit. Within your lifespan.

No, im saying that the Videogame industry isnt going anywhere

[Krylo]

Basically, if Nintendo doesn't expand the market base, no one else is going to, and eventually gaming will become more and more of a niche hobby until it stops existing altogether. It's only because Nintendo continually ropes in new players that video games have any longevity as a medium, and Wii was an absolutely necessary move for the industry's long-term health.Which I was saying earlier, however:

On that subject, the Wii is only 2 years old, and it looks to us like previous consoles had a greater number of good games because we're looking back on their entire 5-6 year catalog retrospectively.Actually, we're comparing it to the two other consoles that came out about the same time.

Were we comparing it to say... the Gamecube, I'd say the Wii already has a better library. No More Heros + Twilight Princess + Super Mario Galaxy + Metroid Prime 2 already beats... what... Metroid Prime? I refuse to count any game that pads out it's game play to ridiculous margins with boring ass sailing and treasure hunting as a proper game--so I'm purposely leaving Wind Waker off the Gamecube list.

However--it still doesn't hold up to the libraries for... well even for the PS3. And that's kinda sad.

Though, as I said before, I understand what they're doing and why they're doing it, and I don't see it as a bad thing. It just means that I'm not their target demographic anymore, and I'm ok with that.

Large companies are not your best friend, regardless of how long they've made things that you like. Sometimes your interests move away from theirs, and that's ok. It just means you have to move on.

Or spend extra money on more than one console.

Whatever.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I do agree that Nintendo has hyped themselves into a tight spot with this "change gaming forever" thing. Or was it the fans? Anyway, the point is, it's probably not going to happen, and there certainly aren't going to be games that exemplify the concept month after month. What does seem plausible is small improvements of the gaming experience; nothing major, just some neat things. All the hype puts these things in a bad light. People think, "this is the revolution? What a stupid gimmick." Whereas if it were never propped up as being the new face of gaming forever, there might be more appreciation for what is accomplished instead of focusing on what isn't.

Well, that was very abstract. Let's move into more concrete territory... the future!

Nintendo has drove itself into a corner, and i expect some big surprises in 2009, or else, i would bet the wii is going to have a shorter life.
wat

I don't know if you've seen some sales numbers, like, ever, so let me explain this... Do you remember when Sony said, "we could launch the PS3 with no games and people would buy it?" Well, there could be no Wii games coming out, ever again, and it would still probably continue to sell for maybe up to a year. Maybe it'll be "dead to you" or something, but the little white box isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Were we comparing it to say... the Gamecube, I'd say the Wii already has a better library. No More Heros + Twilight Princess + Super Mario Galaxy + Metroid Prime 2 [it is 3 you silly goose] already beats... what... Metroid Prime? I refuse to count any game that pads out it's game play to ridiculous margins with boring ass sailing and treasure hunting as a proper game--so I'm purposely leaving Wind Waker off the Gamecube list.
See, this is what I don't get. It's not any worse than last gen, so what the fuck was going on with the Gamecube? Was it considered to have a weak first party lineup? Was there a phantom casual market Nintendo was secretly courting with phantom casual games? It seems like things have only gotten better in that department for the "hardcore" (surely not worse, at least?) so I don't understand how it is that people can say that Nintendo "abandoned them" this gen. Seems like they're doing the same as they've always been, but now they're also doing things for a different audience.

[Regulus Tera]

See, this is what I don't get. It's not any worse than last gen, so what the fuck was going on with the Gamecube? Was it considered to have a weak first party lineup? Was there a phantom casual market Nintendo was secretly courting with phantom casual games? It seems like things have only gotten better in that department for the "hardcore" (surely not worse, at least?) so I don't understand how it is that people can say that Nintendo "abandoned them" this gen. Seems like they're doing the same as they've always been, but now they're also doing things for a different audience.

That's part of the problem, I think. While I could make the argument that Nintendo has always been a casual market company, only now they admit it openly. It also doesn't help that they are the market leader at the moment, so they get scrutinised a lot more for any "defects" their line-up may have.

[bluestarultor]

That's part of the problem, I think. While I could make the argument that Nintendo has always been a casual market company, only now they admit it openly. It also doesn't help that they are the market leader at the moment, so they get scrutinised a lot more for any "defects" their line-up may have.

I think it's less about that and more about people not getting what they expected. People expected the Wii to make great use of the motion controls, but were misinformed about how they really worked. We now have an add-on that basically makes the thing do what they said it would. People expected to move around to play games, but they didn't consider how tiring it might be after coming home from a shitty day at the office. People expected the Wii lineup to make full use of all the nifty little features in the remote and nunchuck, but they didn't expect it to be so damned poorly-implemented half the time. They expected party games, because, hell, DDR was the first game that actually made you get up and move, and people STILL play the original, but they didn't think that that would be 99.99999% of the entire lineup that would be alluring to play after 10 hours.

There's all sorts of stuff the Wii has going for it, like Wii points, half of all Nintendo games of all the ages, GameCube compatibility, etc., which is fine, but people are feeling cheated on so much more that it outweighs the good.

[Jagos]

People expected the Wii to make great use of the motion controls, but were misinformed about how they really worked.

So that means people have lowered expectations on the other systems?

I'm asking just to have that point clarified. It seems as if the Wii is being punished for not being more than it is along these lines.

[Mirai Gen]

Well it's also the fact that Nintendo keeps crippling themselves. Just compare the functionality to XBL/PSN online play, arcade, and functionality to the Wii. I don't know why but Nintendo is incredibly skeptical to do anything even remotely related to easy online community gatherings and friendships. The 'pedophile' argument became stale a looooooooooong time ago.

Brawl, for some completely random reason, comes to mind.

Probably because I'm still really sore about it.

[Regulus Tera]

Well it's also the fact that Nintendo keeps crippling themselves. Just compare the functionality to XBL/PSN online play, arcade, and functionality to the Wii. I don't know why but Nintendo is incredibly skeptical to do anything even remotely related to easy online community gatherings and friendships. The 'pedophile' argument became stale a looooooooooong time ago.

It's not that they are worried about pedophiles harassing your kids online as much as they do not want dumb parents to sue them for pedophiles harassing your kids online. I used to think it was idiotic until I saw a documentary on 20/20 arguing that fucking Pictochat could be a tool for child molesters to contact your kids. Seeing it under that light, I can kind of understand them.

I also heard that part of the reason they do not want to get online fully (at least not yet) has to do with the rampant bigotry and racism that gets thrown around everywhere in online matches. It explains why their first voice chat addition for the Wii is not a headset, but a microphone that picks up everyone talking in a room, reducing the incentive for anyone to spew out shit. Pulling off a Seil:

http://i38.tinypic.com/2m30ehf.jpg

This is why you don't get full online with Nintendo.

EDIT: It was myFOX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orpgUPNSRPI). My bad.

[bluestarultor]

So that means people have lowered expectations on the other systems?

I'm asking just to have that point clarified. It seems as if the Wii is being punished for not being more than it is along these lines.

Other systems are being punished for other reasons. The 360 is criticized for compatibility issues and its limited scope of game types, aka "which shooter should I buy next" syndrome. The RRoD has made it the target of countless jokes, and it doesn't help with the history of both it and the original having the nasty habit of dying or other issues, like being a space heater. Also because the Live community can be considered... rambunctious. The PS3 has its share of flack from the SixAxis, its early lack of vibration, limited compatibility with PS1 and now none whatsoever with PS2 games, marshmallow trigger buttons, a limited library overall, major loss of exclusive titles, and high price.

[Mirai Gen]

It's not that they are worried about pedophiles harassing your kids online as much as they do not want dumb parents to sue them for pedophiles harassing your kids online. I used to think it was idiotic until I saw a documentary on 20/20 arguing that fucking Pictochat could be a tool for child molesters to contact your kids. Seeing it under that light, I can kind of understand them.

I also heard that part of the reason they do not want to get online fully (at least not yet) has to do with the rampant bigotry and racism that gets thrown around everywhere in online matches. It explains why their first voice chat addition for the Wii is not a headset, but a microphone that picks up everyone talking in a room, reducing the incentive for anyone to spew out shit. Pulling off a Seil:
Well yeah, it wasn't exactly like they didn't have good reason, but the whole pedophile thing is just a lame excuse, as they could just as easily have an "off" switch. Password protection. Playstation 2's had it for DVDs exceeding ratings of Teen if you go with the option, why not just extend this to online play from the Wii home console? It could not have been that difficult to program.

It isn't even necessarily voice chat. They could have a completely muted, no-text, acceptable but flawed system that featured no communication at all. If they followed everything else Xbox Live did - Quick-search versus fights, friendship requests, user names instead of codes, achievements - it would still be like a million times better. And there's the unregulated online play. Brawl's online programming is just garbage, where as Mario Kart Wii's is great. Why so inconsistent, Falco?

TLDR: Nintendo doesn't care about online, and proof is the complete plethora of better options they could do, but don't.


...I'm feeling especially argumentative today, I'm going to go log off for a while.

[Zilla]

Even though the article is 3 and a half years old, it still holds true today and makes Nintendo's strategy perfectly lucid. Basically, if Nintendo doesn't expand the market base, no one else is going to, and eventually gaming will become more and more of a niche hobby until it stops existing altogether. It's only because Nintendo continually ropes in new players that video games have any longevity as a medium, and Wii was an absolutely necessary move for the industry's long-term health.

I disagree with this. Gaming as a whole was better when it was niche. The development structure was FAR less corporate and you didn't need to pour millions of dollars into a game to get it to sell. From the crash of 1984 until about 1998 or so when some serious 3D games broke into mainstream media, video games were at their most creative and impressive. Now, we've got the countless unoriginal sequels and the pandering to casual audiences and crazy demographic analysis that makes the industry more lucrative for the giant corporate monsters with fat wallets to fund that stuff, while making independent and lower-cost games pale in comparison, doomed to fade to obscurity.

[Mirai Gen]

Hm.

On one hand, Zilla, I agree with you, because lots of the material that's being produced such as the Wii's gimmicky, tacked-on controls (of otherwise perfectly fine games) with extremely inexpensive, out-of-date parts, or SEQUEL MANIAAAA, or franchises that I love suddenly being shot in the ass*, or a million other things. There's also the necessity of marketing and advertising, and if you want proof of how crucial they are, just look at Psychonauts.

On the other hand I just can't agree with you, because honestly it doesn't matter if you've got voice acting and expansive world and an incredible combat engine and gorgeous graphics and cutscenes like Mass Effect, or Fallout 3, or GTA4, or whatever. Because in the end, these don't matter provided you've got a good game. If you can get someone hooked on your game you make absolutely tons of cash. Just look at Puzzle Quest, or Geometry Wars, or any other extremely profitable XBL Arcade/DS game. I'm reminded of the XKCD strip, "The most powerful gaming technology in the world just can't match up with the addictiveness of in-browser flash games."

So I'm still on the fence there.

*yes, I realize the irony of that statement put after the previous one.

[Jagos]

I disagree with this. Gaming as a whole was better when it was niche. The development structure was FAR less corporate and you didn't need to pour millions of dollars into a game to get it to sell. From the crash of 1984 until about 1998 or so when some serious 3D games broke into mainstream media, video games were at their most creative and impressive.

I'm thinking that's a bit flawed...

Before 1984 was when games were a niche market. We have so many versions of Atari and Intellivision it took ET and Nintendo (a corporate card seller) to destroy and reinvigorate and bring games from the brink respectively.

[Mintaro]

Dear hardcore gamers,

Times are changing, and the world changes with it. Once video games were owned only by the few, and practiced by the select. Now every pair of thumbs is pressing buttons and calling themselves the champ. What dose that mean to the core of us? Those few and select that played in the beginning, when the princess was always in another castle?

It means that the companies that once nurtured an art form, now paint mostly for capital. Companies like Nintendo are interested less in what their fans want, and more about what there market will buy. Their market? Why its that dreaded word that has haunted all things beautiful sense the beginning of time, family.

While family can be fun, and family can be pretty, and family can be entertaining. So rarely dose it fill the cold spot we have learned to stuff video games into. After all if we had family, how many of us would have needed the warm glow of the screen?

To those of you who regret the directions of their favorite companies. My advice is for you to move on. Do not dwell on the greats of the past if you wish to purchase to future. Instead make the most of what you can get. Interplay is gone, but Bethesda pays them homage. Blizzard seems to have lost their path, but their works hold great promise. And even the EA Giant, can occasionally uncover gold.

Countless others how hold the flame of Game in their hearts. So too should you let yours burn bright. Let go of the past and focus on the great games of the now. If they do not exist on your system, buy a new one, and don't look back until you pull your attention with an act so glorious you cannot help but weep, I have.

Sadly all great things must change. After all, Sean Connery could not be Bond forever. Yet we have had so many great faces sense.

[Mike McC]

Once video games were owned only by the few, and practiced by the select.I just love how gamers think they're the only ones who have played games in the past and this influx of 'non' gamers is totally leaving their cake out in the rain. I got a news flash for you: at least since the era of the NES, video games have had a fairly wide audience. Shit, in grade school, back in the long long ago, the way back when, Practically every kid had at least a Nintendo or a Sega. Several had Game Boys and Game Gears. An they weren't nerds or dorks or geeks in the slightest. We are not a select group that played video games as a kid. We are an entire generation that grew up with them. Getting all bent out of shape because companies DARE to make games in genres you don't like is frankly quite ridiculous. And believing you are the sole heirs to an exclusive dynasty is even more ridiculous.

Just focus on the games you do like, and ignore the rest. You'll save a lot of your sanity and be all around more zen if you do this.

[Mirai Gen]

I just love how gamers think they're the only ones who have played games in the past and this influx of 'non' gamers is totally leaving their cake out in the rain.
While I generally agree with your post, you're being really condescending by quoting him and then using him as a cypher for "gamers" in general and what you think is amusing (IE 'what I love') about their behavior. This kind of treatment is even furthered by:
And believing you are the sole heirs to an exclusive dynasty is even more ridiculous.
When his entire post boiled down to this:
Instead make the most of what you can get.
Which is, incidentally, exactly what you said here:
Just focus on the games you do like, and ignore the rest.

[Kim]

Well, I generally think the purpose of the entertainment industry is to entertain me, as far out there as that may sound, so when a company, especially a company like Nintendo, I tend to get a little frustrated.

"Do your job!" I call out from the street, picket sign in hand. I understand that they have to make things for casual gamers, but I expect to be treated nice, too. You ought to try to keep the customers that you've had for a long time. They've been loyal to you, can't you be loyal to them?

[TheSparrow]

Well, I generally think the purpose of the entertainment industry is to entertain me, as far out there as that may sound, so when a company, especially a company like Nintendo, I tend to get a little frustrated.

"Do your job!" I call out from the street, picket sign in hand. I understand that they have to make things for casual gamers, but I expect to be treated nice, too. You ought to try to keep the customers that you've had for a long time. They've been loyal to you, can't you be loyal to them?

The purpose of the entertainment industry is to entertain the people willing to spend the most money. Unfortunately, these people dont always make good decisions, and the rest of us are stuck with it (Just look at the current #1 movie right now). The Gaming Industry is going the same way the music and the movie industries went. People with MONEY are in charge and they wont do anything that isnt guaranteed to make them more money. So now, just like how the best bands are independent and the best movies are made by tiny indie companies, the best and most original games, for the most part, will come from small independent companies who have the freedom to create, rather than have to make something to that pleases a corporate board of directors.

[Kim]

There are still some good games, but not as many. Capcom still does good stuff, and I'm hoping that Bayonetta will surprise me. Okami was awesome, and I have hope that MadWorld will be as well. There are still lots of good games, but I can't help the feeling that fewer and fewer companies are actually producing them.

Also, guess what... As long as the entertainment industry is focused only on catering to the people with the most money, pirating will keep going higher and higher.

[Mirai Gen]

The purpose of the entertainment industry is to entertain the people willing to spend the most money. Unfortunately, these people dont always make good decisions, and the rest of us are stuck with it (Just look at the current #1 movie right now).
This is actually what goes on with 99% of entertainment media today, unfortunately. I mean look at what happened to Heroes, or RA Salvatore, or the death and return of great Batman movies, and yes videogames too.

From what I hear, the entire team for Dead Space over at EA has already been laid off after they got assimilated. Which pisses me off because Dead Space has become one of my favorite games of all time. That might be the economy talking but still, jesus.

[Jagos]

But the team of Dead Space was part of EA on different projects in the first place. More than likely, they are moving on to different things in EA.

As long as the entertainment industry is focused only on catering to the people with the most money, pirating will keep going higher and higher.

... I for one don't believe that looting on the high seas is a problem for game makers. Instead, more or less, they should stop making criminals out of people that decide to push different games to the public. If they do it through giving a full game demo or just a one stage demo, I believe free advertising works a LOT more than trying to give jail terms to distributors.

[Kim]

Ummm... I was talking about people downloading illegally. I would normally assume you were trying to be silly, but you quoted that line, and then in no way addressed it in any way that I can understand. But yeah, as long as most game makers act like douches, people aren't exactly gonna feel guilty when cutting down their profits.

[Mirai Gen]

But the team of Dead Space was part of EA on different projects in the first place. More than likely, they are moving on to different things in EA.
Seriously, no, they fired hundreds of people. (http://kotaku.com/5071439/electronic-arts-lays-off-six-hundred) I'm not sure if the Dead Space team is a part of that but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Jagos]

Ummm... I was talking about people downloading illegally. I would normally assume you were trying to be silly, but you quoted that line, and then in no way addressed it in any way that I can understand. But yeah, as long as most game makers act like douches, people aren't exactly gonna feel guilty when cutting down their profits.

Well, piracy is about being on the open seas. And they get RPGs and sub machine guns nowadays. :sweatdrop

Game piracy for the most part, isn't about making bad guys out of customers. But I'm getting off on a tangent that I could go on about for a while.

The next part was more or less about game makers such as EA who put DRM on their products to stop crap but then... It has the opposite effect of hurting their bottom line. I wonder why...? :shifty:

@Dante:
Holy crap... That's a LOT of people...

[Pip Boy]

I don't know why everyone hates the wii so much. After all, it has proven to be the most powerful nintendo system made thus far. I mean, even the gamecube lacked a special power the wii has shown that it has. The power to suck so freaking bad that I buy another company's system for the first time in my life. I don't regret it either. After always playing nitnendo's systems, the Xbox360 has shown an impressive array of games, well implemented online play, and a lot less gimicky bullcrap wrapped in glitter.

With the X360 I now have a dillema I never had with nintendo systems. I actually have a large list of games to choose from, and only enough money to buy some of them. With nintendo, I never had to really think about what game to get next because the choice was clear, as I would always get the good one.

As for the third party thing, Nintendo actually deserves it to a degree. Aside from making these cheap gimmicky tricks to entertain little kids and not putting a "please use responsibly" label on them for the third party makers to see, they also have a track record of being jerks to the third party companies. For example, Lucas Arts was pissed when Nintendo announced Wii motion Plus at E3 because they had been making a light saber dueling game that would have benefited from it greatly. If nintendo had bothered to tell them about it.

Nintendo could do much better for its core gamers if it just focused a little bit more on quality and a little bit less on hitting you in the head with their next childish gimicky trick. This doesn't mean they have to give up the whole innovation thing completely, it just means they have to learn to implement it well instead of going OMG I HAVE AN IDEA LETS SLOPPILY STAPLE IT TO THE NEXT SYSTEM AND MAKE MILLIONS!

[Mike McC]

While I generally agree with your post, you're being really condescending by quoting him and then using him as a cypher for "gamers" in general and what you think is amusing (IE 'what I love') about their behavior.I wasn't responding to him directly, merely using that phrase as a launching point for my mini-ranting. I do know that he had much the same veiwpoint, it's just that phrase reminded me of something I always found a bit annoying; I felt I should include it.

[synkr0nized]

Given the years within which Nintendo has been involved in gaming, the ever-evolving gaming industry, the quite large and varied gaming population of the world, and the growing attention various companies are giving to games and the gaming market, it's not surprising that Nintendo finally is being seen for making its bad choices while others are recognized for their good choices.

It happens.