Router/Cable Networking Dilemna! I'm dumb and suck at naming threads! Waaaugh!

[Pip Boy]

My family moved into the boondocks recently, where the only availible internet connection is a wireless connection from my Uncle's house next door. The problem is that because of the distance from the router, the connection is unreliable and can only be picked up by a single computer. The solution was to run a 300 foot ethernet cable through the wall of my home, into a PVC pipe that ran to my Uncle's house, and into his attic from there. From the attic, it ran across the house and down into a bedroom that contained a router. From there it was put into an ethernet port. A second ethernet cable connects from this port into my Uncle's router.

Problem is, it isn't working. Somewhere along the lines, something doesn't work. I've checked and double checked the 300 foot ethernet cable itself. It isn't broken anywhere, meaning that wherever the problem is, I probably did something wrong in networking somethign somewhere. No matter what I do, no device I try to connect with can detect the router at the other end. Everything seems to be working except for the whole thing completely.

I am really at my wit's end with this. After days of getting parts, digging a 300 foot trench, running through the ethernet cable etc, I am going to go insane if I can't get this working.

Anyone have any idea how I could get this working? Anything? Or if you don't know how to fix this, does anyone know a cheap sattelite internet service that won't require a contract for X number of months? Please?

[Seil]

At Wit's End is a fabulous wine. As my brother says, the best wines have funny names - Cat's Pee On A Gooseberry Bush, Dirty Laundry...

Okay, something on-topic: Call Shaw. Or whomever handles that internet connection. We're having the same problem, but with a router that's set up on the family computer and a laptop less than twenty feet away. It just craps out randomly, or slows down to unbearable levels - so we called Shaw and were like "What's up?"

[Pip Boy]

Who/what is shaw? Also, I don't think calling the provider is a good idea as they will be less than motivated to tell me how to steal internet from one of their customers. Even if I do have his permission, they will have a conflict of interest in telling me how I can get internet without paying them for it. So either I can explain to them what the actual scenario is and risk that they won't care to help, or I can tell them I am just adding another router to the network and risk getting an answer that applies to a problem different than the one I am actually dealing with.

[Eltargrim]

Your signal probably isn't getting through. Maximum length of cat 5 (Generally referred to as ethernet) cable is approx 100m, or 330 ft. (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080909134647AAUs6IA). What this means is that there's probably signal deterioration going on. You might need a repeater somewhere along the line.

[synkr0nized]

What's preventing you from legitimately getting access through an ISP?

[Fifthfiend]

MMFTW, titling your thread something that actually decribes the problem substantially increases the chance that someone who can solve your problem will notice your thread and stop by to help. (And substantially decreases the chance that jackass mods will take the opportunity to act like dicks at your expense.)





http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg

Anyway as far as help goes it would be useful to get a complete list of what you've tried.

- using an alternate (shorter) cable to make sure the devices are connected correctly?
- Swapping out your routers to see whether those are working correctly?

Knowing what alternatives you've already tried will help narrow down the particular source of your difficulty.

Also It sounds like you're running that line through an awful lot of twists and turns. IIRC ethernet cables have fairly stringent requirements about the radius you can bend them at before you start getting signal degradation; if you haven't accounted for that in your cabling layout then (along with Eltargrim's note about your relatively long segment length) that could be the source of your problem.

[Pip Boy]

Your signal probably isn't getting through. Maximum length of cat 5 (Generally referred to as ethernet) cable is approx 100m, or 330 ft. (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080909134647AAUs6IA). What this means is that there's probably signal deterioration going on. You might need a repeater somewhere along the line.

I think this could possibly be the problem. I've got an Ohm meter that I can use to check if there is a break in the cable itself. Aside from this, I've just been informed that the connections were wired backwards on one end of the ethernet cable. Instead of fixing the problem, we have apparently wired them backwards on the other side too, to compensate. This means its probably one of these. Either I need to fix the connections on both ends or I need to double check the length that I used.

On the other hand, I haven't worked with ethernet lengths over about 300 feet before, and so I have no idea what a repeater is. However, since it works with ethernet stuff, I am going to assume it is some kind of electic device. Problem with electric devices is that they are hard to place in pipes with a 1 inch radius under the ground in the middle of the yard where there will be dogs and rain etc.

EDIT: To elaborate on what I've already tried, swapping the router on my end or his has done nothing to help, and plugging the cord on my end directly into computers or an Xbox hasn't worked either. The cord doesn't go through many tight turns except where it goes form the attic of one house into the room below.
I'll try rewiring later today, and if that fail's I'll double check the length of my cable.

[synkr0nized]

How do you wire cat5 "backwards"? Are you using cross-over cables or for some reason putting LAN connections in the WAN ports?

Also, I still remain curious as to why and how your own connection cannot be procured while tons of silly A-Team/MacGuyver methods are okie-dokie.

[Nikose Tyris]

I demand a diagram so I can attempt a MacGuyver.

[Pip Boy]

How do you wire cat5 "backwards"? Are you using cross-over cables or for some reason putting LAN connections in the WAN ports?

Also, I still remain curious as to why and how your own connection cannot be procured while tons of silly A-Team/MacGuyver methods are okie-dokie.

When wiring the ethernet cable itself into the female end of an ethernet port, you have to take some of the wires inside the cable and connect them to specific other cables that are part of the end of the port as shown on a diagram. Thing is, we had the diagram upside down when we hooked up the first one, so we figured that as long as we did the same thing on the other end the signal would still get through correctly. In hindsight this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and I plan on correcting it before the day is over.

EDIT: To be more specific, the label on the box calls the end of the port an 8-pin surface-mount Modular Jack.

[Pip Boy]

Good news! Through extensive troubleshooting and testing I have verified...

1) The 380 Foot Ethernet cable that runs from house A to house B is intact and can carry a signal.

2) The Ethernet cable has the ends connected correctly.

3) The shorter Ethernet cables I've used on either end of that cable are working correctly.

4) When plugged in directly with a 5 foot cable, my computers can connect to the router at the far end of the 380 foot cable.

This leaves pretty much only one problem. I have a 380 foot cable, and the max length for Ethernet cables is 330 feet. I have been told that the thing I will need to fix this is an Ethernet Repeater at either end of the 380 foot length. I have, however, been unable to find much information on where to get one. If any member of the forum has information on where I would be able to get a cheap one (I don't need a very good one, just one that works. It only needs to make a 50 foot difference or so) or has one they would be willing to sell me, I would be appreciative.

[darth vader wannabe]

Look for a hub or switch. Both of which function as a multi-port repeater.

Honestly, you probably won't be able to find an ethernet repeater. They're used so infrequently anymore that they're pretty much not even made.

What I'm going to say is take the point in either your or your uncle's house (whichever has more cabling inside) and put the hub/switch at that exact point. This will hopefully limit the amount of signal degradation you will have on that line.

[MasterOfMagic]

You don't need a repeater at one of the ends, you've basically got that in the router/computer. What you need is a repeater somewhere in the middle, so that the length an unboosted signal has to travel is 190ft, as opposed to 380 ft. Or 100 and 280ft, or where ever in the middle you decide to put it, as long as each segment is less than 330ft. You can probably establish connections just fine, but actually trying to send any amount of data over that length isn't going to work out well.

Also, a hub will only work if its powered. A multi-port repeater. You can buy just plain ol' hubs that are just a physical connection and provide no signal boosting what-so-ever. You don't want those.

[Preturbed]

The MacGuyver:
You will need:
200' of 1/2" PVC pipe
210' of #12 Wire for each color (black, white and green)
1/2" male adapters
1/2" couplings
1/2" sweep-Ls
1 piece of PVc teh same size as your original
2 sweep-Ls the same size as your original PVC pipe.
1 3-hole bellbox
1 piece of kendorf
1 weatherproof box extension
1 weatherproof in-use cover
1 outlet
3 wirenuts, either red or blue depending on your situation.
Tools
A hub or switch. Both of which function as a multi-port repeater.

If you know how to run power to a new outlet in your yard, skip this part

Dig up your ethernet trench to a length of 190-ish feet. Lay 190 feet (19 pieces) of 1/2" PVC pipe alongside the original pipe and at one end glue on a sweep-L (a 90 degree turn that follows a radius so you don't have to pull a sharp corner). Drive a piece of steel (we usually use Kindorf (http://www.tnb.com/ps/con/contractor.cgi?a=cbrands&bid=107)) into the ground in the middle. On that piece of Kindorf affix a 3 hole bell box (http://www.drillspot.com/products/118288/Bell_5324-0_Weatherproof_One_Gang_Outlet_Box). Use a 1/2" male adapter, a coupling and a piece of PVC the appropriate length to connect your 1/2" pipe to your bellbox. On the other end of your pipe, you need to find an outlet or other power source that you can easily get into. If you have an outside outlet, I reccomend using one of these (http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/30090/icn/20-022269/thomas_betts/s121e.htm) to extend the box and make the innards accessible. Repeat the process used to connect PVC to bellbox at this end, and push a black, a white, and a green piece of number 12 solid wire through the PVC. PAY ATTENTION HERE OR YOU'LL GET HURT! Turn off the power! Starting in the middle, where you have the Kindorf, connect the Black wire to the gold screw on the outlet which you should have remembered from the hardware store. Connect the White wire to the silver screw, and the Green Wire to the green screw. Make sure all connections are tight! Using your wits and sass, figure out how to put the outlet into the box, and cover it with your Weatherproof In-use cover (http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/30090/icn/20-233130/thomas_betts/cknm.htm). Using your wirenuts, connect color to color (hot is commonly black, red, or blue. In fact, any color that isn't white, bare, or green is probably your hot). Reconnect the other outlet using extra 12 gauge wire as jumpers. Put all covers back on and make sure everything is back together properly. Turn on the power.

You now have power to the outlet in your yard. Now, pull the ethernet cord out of the other pipe and cut it in the middle. Push it back a little so there is a space between the cut. Put a sweep L, a coupling, and a few feet of PVC on both cut ends. Cut your ethernet cord in half and run each half through the pvc and out the top. Affix new ends to the cut ethernet cord. Place a small stool next to the Kindorf. On the stool, place the hub/switch. Plug in all cords as necessary.

You'll want to build a rain-proof enclosure for all this, and even then you'll probably wind up replacing the hub with some regularity. I'm sure you're MacGuyver enough to figure that part out.

Notes:
Oh yeah, cover your ditch. We don't want any broken legs.
If anybody tells you that running 14 gauge wire is OK/better, they are wrong. 14 is ok for some 120 volt applications inside the home, but for long runs a larger wire is necessary.

[Pip Boy]

http://www.mattmeade.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/macgyver.jpg


Thanks MacGyver! You're like at least three times as awesome as Rex!

[Preturbed]

I dunno if that was sincere or not, but that's how I would solve the problem anyway.

I forget to say, you'll probably want a box of 1 inch self-tapping screws and an appropriate driver bit to attach things to other things. And remember, the ground (as in the thing you walk on, not the electrical term) is your enemy. Anything you leave resting on the ground will decay much faster than something a foot or two above it.