A couple of questions that are forum related

[Mesden]

Alright, just a couple of ponderings about a couple rules.

#1 would be, why is it such a big deal that spoiler2 only ever ever be used for spoilers? I mean the only other time it isn't is when someone's got a tablebreaking/obnoxiously big post, which they usually give warning of so there's no confusion. Or, alternatively, if it's such a big deal to use the things literally, why not just use the same code we do for spoiler2 and call it something else so people aren't forced to scroll 50 imaginary internet meters down to get past the picture dump.

Which leads me to question 2, picture dumping. Specifically in the Not Youtubes thread. Why is it that motivational posters aren't allowed? I mean they aren't everyone's cup of tea, especially not mine, but some, hell, a lot of people like them and sometimes they're worth a good laugh, so what's with the moratorium? Never really saw the Not Youtubes thread as some high standard of taste thread.

[Fifthfiend]

It's a big deal because before it was a deal everyone used the tag for every single thing except hiding an actual spoiler, which is to say basically any post that was more than like twelve words long. I don't know where anyone got the idea in their heads that writing an actually long and thoughtful post that someone somewhere might actually want to read was some sort of shameful act which they should hide away behind a javascript wall with a button to only be pushed should one dare brave the horrors of TEXT! WRITTEN DOWN! ON AN INTERNET FORUM!!!! Whereas I guess every brainshit of a five-word waste of time is I don't know some kind of fucking prize that you scoop up off the floor and run to Mommy and Daddy with so they can see the wonderful thing you made.

But it was fucking stupid and it mostly led to getting everyone in the habit of autoclicking every time they saw a spoilerbox which kind of defeated the purpose of having a spoilerbox because if that box ever contained an actual spoiler somewhere you'd immediately click it and see the spoiler due to having trained yourself not to think because in 99.99999999% of cases what we were labeling as "spoiler" was just whatever in hell actual content you'd clicked on the thread to read in the first place.

And then as far as this

Or, alternatively, if it's such a big deal to use the things literally, why not just use the same code we do for spoiler2 and call it something else so people aren't forced to scroll 50 imaginary internet meters down to get past the picture dump.

The thing is that I did exactly that, and we had those tags for like half a year or some shit, and I even bribed Bluesey into making actual ding-dang icons that we put into the forum post editor to make them that much more convenient for people to use, and you know what happened? NOBODY GODDAM EVER USED THE TLDR TAG EVER ONCE NEVER EVER, and still used the fucking spoiler tag for everything all the time! To the point that when we suggested to people "well maybe you could use the tldr tag for that" they would be all like "But then what am I supposed to use the spoiler tag for?!" I swear to god that is not an exagerration someone actually said those words for real and meant it.

So we got rid of the extra tags I had made for people to use that nobody used and just said hey if you have something with spoilers in it use the spoilertags and if you just have a bunch of text POST THE TEXT BECAUSE THIS IS A TEXT PLACE WHERE PEOPLE COME TO READ TEXT.

[Fifthfiend]

DOUBLEPOSTCUZICAN

All that said I'm personally not opposed to using the spoiler tag for the once in a while that someone has an image that would actually break the forum template esp. if they put a thing sayin' hey this next spoiler ain't a spoiler it's just a bigass image. But I think Meister has stronger feelings about that one than I do so we'll see what he has to say about it.

EDIT: AND I think I'd be doubleplus okay with putting the stuff that wigimund put in spoilers in spoilers so I don't have to fucking actually look at it ever but I'd be like tripleplus okay with nobody ever posting that stupid fucking shit on this forum anywhere ever.

[Mirai Gen]

In my opinion I believe the TLDR button was a great idea and I tried to use it, but I think that it didn't have enough time to settle into people's minds. Similarly, in the same way that people frequently use Spoiler2 in place of just posting the image because they got used to it, people used Spoiler2 because people hadn't gotten quite down the fact that the TLDR tag was the same but better. I, for example, didn't know about the TLDR tag until a short while before it was banned. Why this happened I have no idea.

However that's just my thought about the tag itself as I see no problem with pretty much everything that Fifthfiend said, IE why hide walls of text on a forum where you come to type and read text from people anyway? Besides; TLDR on other forums is used less of a smartassed four-letter response and more of a quick summary in a sentence for those who just skim. If people really have that much text I'm sure they can just do this:

TLDR: Fifth is right, and we should use TLDR tags after lots of text like I just did.

EDIT: Also the reason behind the Motivational Poster banning was, I think, lots of people getting tired of perfectly funny pictures being shoved awkwardly into a Motivational Poster with captions and text for absolutely no reason. I disagree but I think it's just a temporary 'breather' ban anyway.

[Fifthfiend]

Oh yeah I forgot about the posters thing. I think Meister wanted the posters gone for what I see as the basically understandable reason that 99.99999999% of those things are like

[IMAGE]

"Hey look at that image it is an image of [IMAGE]"

It's just ten million of the exact same annoying thing all the time and it's just like man, nah.

[phil_]

Personally, I didn't use the tl;dr tag because of my distaste for the term "tl;dr." Also, I'm pretty sure I never used spoiler2 as a replacement. "Pretty sure," as in "I just spent about an hour and a half reviewing my old posts to find an instance where I did and came up dry."

[MasterOfMagic]

"Pretty sure," as in "I just spent about an hour and a half reviewing my old posts to find an instance where I did and came up dry."
That's dedication.
Oh yeah I forgot about the posters thing. I think Meister wanted the posters gone for what I see as the basically understandable reason that 99.99999999% of those things are like

[IMAGE]

"Hey look at that image it is an image of [IMAGE]"

It's just ten million of the exact same annoying thing all the time and it's just like man, nah.
I dunno, it can't be overdone like that, but I think they can add to a joke if done right. I don't think banning it really accomplishes much besides not letting people post funny pictures.

Maybe my tolerance for these things is just too high, but I never even imagined it was a problem until it was banned.

[bluestarultor]

I think part of what Mes might be asking about is the loss of the [IMGHIDE] tags. Because a lot of times, spoiler2 has a case in that if someone is posting a buttload of images like POS showering the forum with his facepalm pics, even though it doesn't stop the pics from loading, it does save people from a million images they don't want to see.

On the other hand, Fenris gave me an infraction for putting one of my comics in spoiler2, so I guess that it's being heavily discouraged. That's my only infraction point, but it's there forever to remind me not to do that anymore.

(Incidentally, I'm glad it was only the one, because if infractions work like I hear negative rep did, I posted enough comics in spoiler2 tags that I might be on thin ice right now. It was sort of my tradition because of how much real estate my 700x1000 format takes up. :sweatdrop )


Also, IIRC, [IMGHIDE] only could show the first pic due to limitations of how it was coded, which somewhat limited what it could be used for, which was why people kept using spoiler2 when they wanted to hide a bunch all at once. In the case IMGHIDE is brought back, it might just be better to do like with TLDR and change up the text to like, "WARNING! PIXEL OVERLOAD!" or something. I might still have the icon somewhere to dig up if it ever happens. Haven't purged my pics in ages. XD

[Mirai Gen]

I dunno, it can't be overdone like that, but I think they can add to a joke if done right. I don't think banning it really accomplishes much besides not letting people post funny pictures.

The problem is the funny pictures are generally funny by themselves without Motivational Posterifying them. If it's that funny spend ten seconds in MS Paint and take the picture out and I'm sure it'll be just as funny, plus or minus a minor explanation in the bottom.

That's not even including some of the sillier pictures I've seen, IE a totally gorgeous girl strapped to a chair and in the background is a TV, and the poster says "HOLY CRAP Futurama's on!" It was funny a few times but now that's pretty much all the decent motivational posters are.

Just look in the thread; the last three images I recall being put in NGY was Jesus found in the dog's ass, yet another TTGL picture with Kamina, and the Elven Tree Cities picture, which was much funnier with the backstory explanation.

Besides what caused the ban was the presence of like 20 people macroing each other to death, and it became "...And Not Goddamn Image Macros" for a while.

But "Macro" is such an ambiguous term that it was changed it to "Motivational poster" because that was the more annoying one anyway.

[POS Industries]

like POS showering the forum with his facepalm pics
What's great about this is that I only ever used those damn things one at a time and have been taking great pains to hold back on them as much as possible while various other denizens of the forums (Fifth, Krylo, RT, and even Mash on one occasion) have been quite slaphappy with the reaction images.

But seriously, "showering"? I think, at most, I used two images in a single post while responding to two separate quotes. If you want to see showering, perhaps you should check out your boy Mac. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=882883&postcount=1558)

Now good day, sir.

[Krylo]

I think the problem people have might not be in whether or not motivational posters are funny to them, but rather with the attempt to legislate the sense of humor of one or two people onto the entire forum.

I was under the impression that the funny pictures/videos thread--and it's two derivatives--was created specifically in order to allow people to post their silly pictures that x, y, and z people didn't actually want to see without disturbing anyone/thing. Beginning to legislate what kind of pictures are deemed funny, seems to nullify the entire point of said threads.

Or, in other words, if you don't enjoy the humor that a large percentage of our user base likes, you probably should just avoid the thread. That's why it's there. So you can avoid it. So what's the point of the thread, exactly, if it's NOT to keep those pictures from appearing elsewhere or to keep new threads from being created?

I'd also point out that a large number of our user base, like the entire rest of the internet, are in their teens and what may seem hackneyed and cliche to us, is still probably rather fresh to them.

As for the spoiler tags--honestly, the easiest way for me to demonstrate why they are useful to hide walls of text:

PRETEND THIS IS ALL AN INTERESTING POST BUT YOU HAVE ALREADY READ IT AND IT IS ON THE TOP OF THE PAGE. MAYBE IT IS AN LP POST FROM DFM. THAT WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE. THEY ARE ACTUALLY USUALLY TWO POSTS.

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Holy shit, I'm tired of scrolling. How about you guys?

I totally want to scroll past that every time I check for updates to that thread until the next page is up.

Totally.

'Course most of the user base can't distinguish between 'Jesus Christ that's a pain to scroll past' and just plain ole 'a lot of words'.

[Meister]

Macros and motivational posters: yeah it's basically like Mirai said. If anyone ever comes and has one that actually uses the format in a new/funny/creative way rather than take a picture ahd shove it into a black frame because that's the meme du jour, I for one won't complain about it one bit. (Look at it this way, it's like reading a really funny joke somewhere and retelling it, only you twist it into a Chuck Norris joke while you retell.)

Krylo's got a good point about the pictures, but then do we really need a thread with all the pictures in it that you can find on every other internet forum? I'd rather have one that surprises me with something I didn't know every other post than one that's like "oh, another motivator, wow yawn enough image thread for today." It's less about sense of humour - a lot of the images in there now still don't make me laugh but I'm not saying a peep - than it is about avoiding tired old cliches and, I dunno, maybe getting people to expand their horizons a bit? Still, really good point, gonna think about this some more at some point.

As for the tags: what Fifth said. If anyone regularly does use too many images or some such we can still ask them not to do it individually.

[Mirai Gen]

It's less about sense of humour - a lot of the images in there now still don't make me laugh but I'm not saying a peep - than it is about avoiding tired old cliches and, I dunno, maybe getting people to expand their horizons a bit? Still, really good point, gonna think about this some more at some point.
Well as I said, isn't it more of a breather ban anyway? Like, give it a few more months and it'll be lifted? Because while I understand they're annoying generally banning means they became a severe problem, and I don't think we hit that mark yet.

Like give it a few months so we don't end up with Motivational Posters being the new Chuck Norris joke on NPF and then continue as we were?

[shiney]

Didn't realize they meant so much to you. Let me know when the ceremony is, I have this great tie I want to wear.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Didn't realize they meant so much to you. Let me know when the ceremony is, I have this great tie I want to wear.

Does it have lolcats on it? It should have lolcats on it.

Holy shit, I'm tired of scrolling. How about you guys?

I agree completely and utterly with this. DFM's thread is a great read, but it's sorta hard when you wanna just post a comment or a response, and you have to scroll past two or three posts that are HOLYFUCK PICTURES. It's also really annoying on Yaplet, because you can't backspace out of the thread without having to restart Yaplet. It doesn't like backspacing.

Also, maybe I'm just remembering wrong, but with the TL;DR tag, didn't it just sorta show up? You didn't really announce it, and it was never constantly mentioned/enforced. Of course, I might just be remembering wrong, I dunno.

[Meister]

Ya know. If you want to scroll past an entire page, just hold Page Down for a sec or drag the slider in your scroll bar down with your mouse. Or to go past a very long post, push Page Down a few times. I don't mean to come off as condescending but you'd think everyone only ever used the mouse wheel.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Ya know. If you want to scroll past an entire page, just hold Page Down for a sec or drag the slider in your scroll bar down with your mouse. Or to go past a very long post, push Page Down a few times. I don't mean to come off as condescending but you'd think everyone only ever used the mouse wheel.

Oh, I do. Even still, it's really annoying, especially when there's something you want to respond to in the middle of the page, between two different walls.

[Fifthfiend]

Also, maybe I'm just remembering wrong, but with the TL;DR tag, didn't it just sorta show up? You didn't really announce it, and it was never constantly mentioned/enforced. Of course, I might just be remembering wrong, I dunno.

http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?p=751774

http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?p=778940

http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=29294

http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=792529&postcount=7

Could be!

I agree completely and utterly with this. DFM's thread is a great read, but it's sorta hard when you wanna just post a comment or a response, and you have to scroll past two or three posts that are HOLYFUCK PICTURES.

I might be amenable to the view that Let's Play threads represent what I would pretty much consider the one and only instance where an image/text hide tag would actually be warranted so maybe I'll do an LP tag or something you guys can use for those.

Alternately we could just say LPs are allowed to use the Spoiler tag which wouldn't even necessarily be wrong since the whole point of a Let's Play is basically to spoil the fuck out of some entire damn game.

In fact hell you know what there you go. Let's Plays can use the spoiler tag because Let's Plays are by definition 100% spoilerrific. Bam, problem solved.

[Mirai Gen]

Ya know. If you want to scroll past an entire page, just hold Page Down for a sec or drag the slider in your scroll bar down with your mouse. Or to go past a very long post, push Page Down a few times. I don't mean to come off as condescending but you'd think everyone only ever used the mouse wheel.
I was wondering that myself, but this idea hits a hiccup at LPs; They have to load all of the images, which results in using Page Down to the bottom, then it loads more, then you hit page down more, then it loads more, and it just continues on.

However with the latest of Fifth's post, bam, problem solved, so nevermind!

Other than that, agreed.

[42PETUNIAS]

Well, you could just give it a minute to load before starting to read it. If it gets really bad, you can always just shorten the amount of posts per page to make it easier to deal with.

[Melfice]

{1} I was wondering that myself, but this idea hits a hiccup at LPs; They have to load all of the images, which results in using Page Down to the bottom, then it loads more, then you hit page down more, then it loads more, and it just continues on.

{2} However with the latest of Fifth's post, bam, problem solved, so nevermind!

Other than that, agreed.

{1} I think both FireFox and Internet Explorer both use tabs now, so if you use either of them go do something else in another tab while the Let's Play thread loads?

It's what I do.

Or, y'know, walk downstairs, grab something to drink or snack, try to get the birds to nibble my finger (thus scaring the shit out of them 60% of the time (damned birds just won't get tamer than that...)) and then get back upstairs to check the thread.

{2} Agreeance here.

[Fifthfiend]

Oh to specify one particular thing:

I think the problem people have might not be in whether or not motivational posters are funny to them, but rather with the attempt to legislate the sense of humor of one or two people onto the entire forum.

I was under the impression that the funny pictures/videos thread--and it's two derivatives--was created specifically in order to allow people to post their silly pictures that x, y, and z people didn't actually want to see without disturbing anyone/thing. Beginning to legislate what kind of pictures are deemed funny, seems to nullify the entire point of said threads.

The funny pictures/videos/ect thread at least in my view is there to allow people to post their silly pictures that people do want to see because they are actually funny and amusing but just don't happen to be related to any other particular thread. The entire point of having a thread like that is so that a person with no particular other thing to do can click over to that thread and in four or five posts find something that makes them smile and maybe even chuckle a little bit. Not something that's so goddamn retarded that it makes them want to kill themselves.

There's always been a place on this forum for posting things that aren't at all funny and are an irritating waste of time it's called anywhere other than on this forum because we would ideally like things that don't suck to be on this forum. Taste has always been legislated on this forum to whatever degree because it's the only way you're going to have a forum that isn't full of things that are godawfully tasteless and if we're going to stop doing that then we might as well give the Games Forum over to Chuck Norris jokes and invite Iyeru back to share his Vore fetishism with us and let people do terrible Let's Plays of Chrono Trigger until Chrono Trigger is ruined for everyone (or at least, ruined even more than Chrono Trigger DS has already ruined Chrono Trigger).

[Mesden]

Oh to specify one particular thing:



The funny pictures/videos/ect thread at least in my view is there to allow people to post their silly pictures that people do want to see because they are actually funny and amusing but just don't happen to be related to any other particular thread. The entire point of having a thread like that is so that a person with no particular other thing to do can click over to that thread and in four or five posts find something that makes them smile and maybe even chuckle a little bit. Not something that's so goddamn retarded that it makes them want to kill themselves.

There's always been a place on this forum for posting things that aren't at all funny and are an irritating waste of time it's called anywhere other than on this forum because we would ideally like things that don't suck to be on this forum. Taste has always been legislated on this forum to whatever degree because it's the only way you're going to have a forum that isn't full of things that are godawfully tasteless and if we're going to stop doing that then we might as well give the Games Forum over to Chuck Norris jokes and invite Iyeru back to share his Vore fetishism with us and let people do terrible Let's Plays of Chrono Trigger until Chrono Trigger is ruined for everyone (or at least, ruined even more than Chrono Trigger DS has already ruined Chrono Trigger).

So what is it, just Mod rule'd what's classy enough for classyland (npf)? I mean it's totally okay for me to break the rules and make a motivational poster of meister banning motivational posters because it's kind of funny, so if someone else has a motivational poster they think is kind of funny they can't post it because they don't get their classiness stamp or something?

It's all pretty contrived when it seems to come down to personal taste. And by personal taste I guess I mean the "two administrators who put up with us the most" 's taste?

I mean it's pretty backwards. There's tons of stupid stupid worse than even motivational posters stupid shit in that thread, but a blanket ban falls down on an averagely less than super funny picture genre because? It's easy and the mods don't like it?

edit: I guess what I'm saying here is you just said that NPF has standards so you ban Motivational Posters, but where I'm coming from is no NPF doesn't have standards in that thread because there's stuff every bit as bad, if not worse, in that exact thread and it's okay because who cares it's an image dump.

[Kim]

Well, I don't think that anyone would get in trouble for an caption or image macro thingy if it was actually funny. Most are just a funny picture and then a poor attempt at funny below it. Maybe if there was one that was actually better for the caption, but those kind are hardly common place.

[Mesden]

Well, I don't think that anyone would get in trouble for an caption or image macro thingy if it was actually funny. Most are just a funny picture and then a poor attempt at funny below it. Maybe if there was one that was actually better for the caption, but those kind are hardly common place.

Right but no one posts them unless they think that Motivational poster is funny.

Kind of like with every single picture in that thread. Even the ones that aren't funny. Especially the ones that aren't funny.

[Fifthfiend]

So what is it, just Mod rule'd what's classy enough for classyland (npf)? I mean it's totally okay for me to break the rules and make a motivational poster of meister banning motivational posters because it's kind of funny, so if someone else has a motivational poster they think is kind of funny they can't post it because they don't get their classiness stamp or something?

It's all pretty contrived when it seems to come down to personal taste. And by personal taste I guess I mean the "two administrators who put up with us the most" 's taste?

I mean it's pretty backwards. There's tons of stupid stupid worse than even motivational posters stupid shit in that thread, but a blanket ban falls down on an averagely less than super funny picture genre because? It's easy and the mods don't like it?

edit: I guess what I'm saying here is you just said that NPF has standards so you ban Motivational Posters, but where I'm coming from is no NPF doesn't have standards in that thread because there's stuff every bit as bad, if not worse, in that exact thread and it's okay because who cares it's an image dump.


Oh gosh yes it's almost like we don't actually go out of our way to be hella-ass huge nazis in every single particular instance, but on the odd occasion where one particular identifiable thing starts being something we see all over the goddamn place all the time we're okay with saying oh hey, that's about enough of that.

Yes I know, what monsters we.

And for the record it's actually even only the one admin cause I actually don't especially give a shit, but they seem to annoy the hell out of Meister and I figured you know hey he's got a point. I mean for all that he's giving Leukemia to an infant every time the twelve billionth shitty motivational poster isn't posted on NPF but hey I guess that's just the price we'll have to pay.

But no I'm sure this is a real important issue to start a crusade about. Well this and bitching at us to add tags that we added a Goddamn year ago that nobody goddamn used.

[Mesden]

It's almost like we don't actually go out of our way to be hella-ass huge nazis in every single particular instance, but on the odd occasion where one particular identifiable thing starts being something we see all over the goddamn place all the time we're okay with saying oh hey, that's about enough of that.

Yes I know, what monsters we.

And for the record it's actually even only the one admin cause I actually don't especially give a shit, but they seem to annoy the hell out of Meister and I figured you know hey he's got a point. I mean for all that he's giving Leukemia to an infant every time the twelve billionth shitty motivational poster isn't posted on NPF but hey I guess that's just the price we'll have to pay.

Sic Semper Tyrannis


But no I'm sure this is a real important issue to start a crusade about. Well this and bitching at us to add tags that we added a Goddamn year ago that nobody goddamn used.

Yes I disagree with a pretty questionable rule, I am starting a mean spirited crusade against the moderator staff which can only end with harsh words and bit tongues.

Urban II's got nothin' on me. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/krylo/emot-smug.png

[Fifthfiend]

Sic Semper Tyrannis

Oh man, this thread just got fantastic.:)

[Mesden]

In the same post, I make an old latin anti-tyrant joke and an old pope who started wars joke. Prolly won't ever top that in my life tbh.

[POS Industries]

In the same post, I make an old latin anti-tyrant joke and an old pope who started wars joke. Prolly won't ever top that in my life tbh.
Now that's just quitter talk. Like I would make. You sound like me.

Is that how far you really want to sink?

[Truce]

Now that's just quitter talk. Like I would make. You sound like me.

Is that how far you really want to sink?

It's like a pit trap. You don't see it until you've already started to fall.

[Meister]

Well, before we go into shouting matches, let me just say this:

I was wondering that myself, but this idea hits a hiccup at LPs; They have to load all of the images, which results in using Page Down to the bottom, then it loads more, then you hit page down more, then it loads more, and it just continues on.
I usually just hit the "stop loading this page" button. :)

Fifth, the idea about LPs is really good, but the second anyone goes "we can use them for pictures there, why can't I use them for pictures here" I get to tattoo "I TOLD YOU SO" on your penis. Let's see how it goes!

As for the whole regulation aspect, we regulate all kinds of things here. More than a few people liked to post screamer flash videos in the past, but I made a rule against them because they were annoying and stupid. Now a lot of people enjoy posting pictures that are annoying and stupid and have captions that in 99% of cases ruin the entire point of the picture itself. Well.

Really if fake motivational posters mean that much to you, do a google search for "internet forum funny pictures thread" and you should be set for a thousand years.

[Mirai Gen]

Isn't there some sort of Announcement function for the forums that could easily convey the message of "Spoiler2 tags are cool for Let's Plays"? Because from what I've seen not everyone browses this (Forum-related stuff) section of the forums, and it'd be a quick way to get word across.

Or just a moderator post in the Who's Playing thread.

Or something. Just so that it's a little more clear.
I get to tattoo "I TOLD YOU SO" on your penis.
I'm sure Krylo has that already.

[shiney]

Since it's only in the games forum I am sure that a games-forum specific announcement would be fine. Or wherever the shit you youngsters have these "play with myself" yarns.

[Marelo]

Man, I hope this doesn't get Fifth a gruesome, ink-laced injury, but...

I was kind of wondering about my use of spoiler2 in the archive post of my forum game. Is that okay, or should I edit those out?

[Fenris]

I'm okay with that one.

[Fifthfiend]

I'm going to say that for all that I bother caring about the Games Forum I'm okay with deferring to Fenris' judgment on this.

Maybe Meister will kick you in the junk for it, I dunno.

[Meister]

I suppose I'd generally ask that we water the rule down as little as at all possible. Since I have no idea what this game is about I'll give that to Fenris as a basic guideline.

[Fifthfiend]

He's already watering down Azumanga Daioh as much as possible he might as well throw in spoiler tags too.

[Marelo]

H'okay then, question answered. Glad your member is not a billboard, Fifth.

Edit: I've rendered the question moot by making a better way to archive (http://sites.google.com/site/yofreakinho/) them.