#1087: "How are you holding those?"

[Kurosen]

This is why you can't dual class as your original class. It warps the universe.

[voodooKobra]

Holy crap. Is that a real exalted feat?

Either way, this is awesome.

[Kepor]

If those are all cathedral arrows, then Sarda's definitely in trouble.

[voodooKobra]

If those are all cathedral arrows, then Sarda's definitely in trouble.
Cathedral arrows?

[Nuklear Waste]

I no longer dislike Ranger. Also, whoever said Ranger is like Fighter was right. He is wielding four of the same weapon at once and managed to confuse Sarda.

[Eldezar]

The thing I love about Rangers is they are the master of the bow. The thing I hate about Rangers is that every single person who plays them seems to try to accomplish exactly this.

Imagine if ranger were this guy.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/iw_arrow_demon.jpg

But yeah, love the dual-wielding longbows and dual classing into your same class.

[Xellos]

Holy Crap! He confused Sarda!

[Kepor]

Cathedral arrows?

Nasty bit of work, those. Hard to get, but very dangerous in the right hands.

I wouldn't expect Ranger to have one, let alone twelve, but I didn't expect him to dual-wield, either.

Or dual-wield the dual-wield.

[pohatufan1]

HA HA HA, OH WOW

I don't remember the last visual gag that was this funny. Actually, I think this might be it (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=080610).

Comic timing and spacing were spot-on, too. Great page.

I no longer dislike Ranger.

Agreed.

[OverNineThousand89]

I hate to play spelling nazi...

but he "posses"? I believe it is "possess"

[guyy]

Holy Crap! He confused Sarda!

Didn't Fighter do that when he told him about Drownball?

[Truec]

All of a sudden, I feel a pressing need to write up a ranger capable of quad-wielding bows.

...

Uh...

...

Shit. I can't find anyone or anything with enough arms to do that. Even a 10-limbed monster ranger still wouldn't be as awesome as Ranger is right now though.

[Ggolbez]

For some reason, I think both Fighter with his Sword-chucks and Red Mage with his class balancing would be insanely proud and envious of this moment.

[Thadius]

NOW would be the time to strike, while he's confused enough to not warp the fabric of the universe towards his survival.

Also, if Ranger actually managed to kill Sarda, then I predict the following from Onion Kid:

"You killed the nice old man! I'm gonna go learn all the magic in the universe to get back at you, mister!"

[Si Civa]

I no longer dislike Ranger. Also, whoever said Ranger is like Fighter was right. He is wielding four of the same weapon at once and managed to confuse Sarda.

Oh geez, I said that and now I regret it. Because he is clearly Redmage of Other warriors, always trying max his thingies to hold more and more bows.
Does that make Ranger a crossdresser?

But this is what you get when couple of your grandparents aren't even born yet.

[Mirai Gen]

I was wondering when being a half-ranger half-ranger was going to be introduced. Nicely done.

And yes, Sarda being surprised or at least confused is hilarious.

[Gadgeteer]

It's obvious to me at the point that Onion Knight is to be either the ultimate hero or the greatest villain.

[paladinz_dude]

All of a sudden I'm reminded of the Ka-Chunk of opening rocket pods.

[voodooKobra]

NOW would be the time to strike, while he's confused enough to not warp the fabric of the universe towards his survival.

Also, if Ranger actually managed to kill Sarda, then I predict the following from Onion Kid:

"You killed the nice old man! I'm gonna go learn all the magic in the universe to get back at you, mister!"

I know where that is going.

Nobody is anyone else. Brian's already said this at least once, and the mods have echoed it.

[Zinos]

The second person ever to confuse Sarda, gratz bow using quad-wielding ranger. But still, ranger didn't do it as greatly as fighter did.

[Amake]

I would say Sarda is more annoyed than confused. Dual wielding dual wield. . . lawl. I suppose dual classing your own class brings certain meta-abilities. Maybe his racial enemy is "Racial Enemy".

[waw]

Sarda's screwed.

If I'm not mistaken, When Ranger begins to dualwield the bows.... the one in his right hand has the arrows on the bow shaft, not the string and it wouldn't firelikea normal bow... which i'm sure is solved by his rangering but still.


Also... is Ranger supposed to be a she?

[Kerensky287]

I know where that is going.

Nobody is anyone else. Brian's already said this at least once, and the mods have echoed it.

Links or it didn't happen. I've been saying Onion Knight is Sarda for MONTHS now, if not YEARS. I forget when I started it but it has been a substantial length of time. I have not seen this "Nobody is anyone else" phrase anywhere and YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE!

[Zeth]

Anyone else feeling like Sarda has suddenly become more overtly arrogant with lines like "are you kidding me?" Seems un-Sardaish. I'm pretty sure this presages his demise.

[Ultima08]

Either Onion Kid will lose his guardian ONCE AGAIN
Or Brian is about to break the chain to screw with our expectations

[Meister]

Oh I get it. All of a sudden wielding four weapons at once is ridiculous. I guess it's only awesome when Fighter does it, yes?

Classism, pure and simple. http://forum.nuklearpower.com/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=24

[Organism X]

Oh I get it. All of a sudden wielding four weapons at once is ridiculous. I guess it's only awesome when Fighter does it, yes?

Classism, pure and simple. http://forum.nuklearpower.com/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=24

The difference is that Fighter wields two weapons which happen to consist of two weapons. While Generic Half-Lying Dual-Class Ranger wields four weapons at once..

[Si Civa]

No, no Organism X. You can't deny what Meister said. Can't you see what he wrote there?

http://forum.nuklearpower.com/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=24

You can't deny it, you can't deny it!
And by saying that I complain that Ranger dualwields four two-handed weapons.

[Geoffron X]

Wait... is Sarda onion kid's guardian, now?

...that was a mistake.

[bobfish]

Sarda? a mistake? IMPOSSIBLE!

Plus, he said uncle Sarda, so, not his parent, so, he's probably safe. Wow, that's alot of commas.

[Hanuman]

I can make this work if you pay for the materials =]

Just finished a sketch on it, principle is sound but you would need to be a bodybuilder to use it, one person has trouble using a bow to shoot 3 arrows into someone's skin since the draw weight at full force shoots them about 20' (yes I have RL experience with triple shot) so that means either the bow needs to be pulled past it's normal limit or the bow measure has to be shortened to increase the tension, and really if we are talking about a 2 handed weapon then this needs to be using 1 hand to hold, and 1 hand to draw, which is possible... but using 1-3 times the force of a normal bow, 4 at a time, means 4-12 times the normal strength of a bow user.

To put this into perspective:
http://www.huntersfriend.com/draw-length-weight.htm

Recommended Draw Weight Ranges (Modern Compound Bows)

Very Small Child (55-70 lbs.) 10-15 lbs. Small Child (70-100 lbs.) 15-25 lbs. Larger Child (100-130 lbs.) 25-35 lbs. Small Frame Women (100-130 lbs.) 25-35 lbs. Medium Frame Women (130-160 lbs) 30-40 lbs. Athletic Older Child (Boys 130-150 lbs.) 40-50 lbs. Small Frame Men (120-150 lbs.) 45-55 lbs. Large Frame Women (160+ lbs.) 45-55 lbs. Medium Frame Men (150-180 lbs.) 55-65 lbs. Large Frame Men (180+ lbs.) 65-75 lbs.

Which means the large frame men scale is needed to shoot 3 arrows (minimum) which means 300LBS of resistance force on both the steady arm and the pull arm.


The preliminary bow design I came up with has each bow having 2 notches in it (in the front face and rear face at the center of each handle) with a 2 slat wood brace which connects all 4 bows, this brace is perpendicular to the bow length direction which means that the tops of your knuckles would be facing up when the bows are straight, or the tops of your knuckles are facing left if holding it in your left hand on a flat pull (way more likely for multishot), and there would be 2 bows on either side of your arm.

The release grip is something to ponder though, if you had godly amounts of strength I guess each finger could hold individual release tethers (with special gloves so the massive callouses you would build up don't get ripped off) or more likely a collective tether that I can't explain without drawing.
------------

Edit-

Ok, well, I made a little drawing to help explain:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2324/8btffigbow2ed5.jpg

The yellow, what I was trying to explain was a length of fabric HELD into a loop, and either end held in the grip, so when you released the fabic would simply come out of being in that shape and unwind down either side at the same time, each side of the loop sticking out of the hand connects 2 of the bow strings, and is thin enough to not touch the pre-loaded arrows. The green lines represent the width of your grip on the fabric.

The way this works is that the fist can space either side of the fabric about 8cm (however big your hand is in that dimension) which gives room for the lines to not have to touch the arm too tightly as to knock the arrows off during pull.

[Nuklear Waste]

Links or it didn't happen. I've been saying Onion Knight is Sarda for MONTHS now, if not YEARS. I forget when I started it but it has been a substantial length of time. I have not seen this "Nobody is anyone else" phrase anywhere and YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE!
Well what do you know? Apparently he only said that about the Light Warriors:

None of the Light Warriors are secretly other characters, or alternate versions, or past versions, or future alternate versions who went to the past, or anything of that nature.

From http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=721591&postcount=28.

[Kurosen]

Wait... is Sarda onion kid's guardian, now?
For a while (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=080911).

[Sliths]

Ooohhh...

Sarda's going to freeze ranger's pose in the next comic, hurting his neck for eternity. Just cause he can. I know it.

[PyrosNine]

Shit, Sarda's going down. You don't mess with a quadruple wield with enough dexterity to wield all four weapons without penalty! Even the gods would bow before such an attack o'doom.

And even if Sarda tries to poof Ranger away, there'll still be enough Ranger left over to fire two bows!

Game over Sarda, game over!

[Martyr]

Anyone else feeling like Sarda has suddenly become more overtly arrogant with lines like "are you kidding me?" Seems un-Sardaish. I'm pretty sure this presages his demise.

yep. He's got the RM hubris problem.

[Amake]

And even if Sarda tries to poof Ranger away, there'll still be enough Ranger left over to fire two bows!
Wow, that's the coolest thing that could possibly happen. And now that you've said it it won't happen. :sweatdrop

[waw]

fighter can wield four weapons... juggling the swords etc

But bows are different.... they're two handed by nature

[TheSparrow]

Also... is Ranger supposed to be a she?

I certainly hope not, as that would make WM a lesbian (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040706), and we certainly dont need to open up THAT particular fan-fic door...not with this bunch.

Anyone else feeling like Sarda has suddenly become more overtly arrogant with lines like "are you kidding me?" Seems un-Sardaish. I'm pretty sure this presages his demise.

No, its fairly Sarda-ish (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=080405)

[Solus]

Re@Lev:
Well, there are bows that take a LOT less strength to use than compound bows...

[Hanuman]

Those bows don't multishot very hard, single arrows sure.

[BitVyper]

I keep thinking of the Heavyarms Gundam.

[WVI]

We heard you liked dual-wielding, so we rangered your ranger so you can dual-wield while you dual-wield.

[Organism X]

No, no Organism X. You can't deny what Meister said. Can't you see what he wrote there?



You can't deny it, you can't deny it!
And by saying that I complain that Ranger dualwields four two-handed weapons.

I gained the power to deny long ago, you pathetic race of sub-mortals seem to deny the power of denial however..

[Truec]

Okay, after making my head hurt searching through books to make quad wielding bows possible, I've degenerated into spouting stupid internet memes.

Yo dawg, we heard you like bows, so we put a Ranger on your Ranger so you can dual-wield while you dual-wield

[Si Civa]

I gained the power to deny long ago, you pathetic race of sub-mortals seem to deny the power of denial however..

Denying somebody who denies something makes me happy.
But when denying somebody who denies something that somebody denied, well you know what? That's a kind of magic!

I'm clearly tired, tired person.

[entrando2]

And if those are cluster arrows Sarda will get a pain of toothpick rain.

Too bad he didn't though of Bow-chucks for 8 at a time!
And dodecarrow storm, haha.

[Zeth]

This is where Fighter will inexplicably come along and, with the aid of his reality-warping cluelessness, morph himself into a dual-class Fighter/Fighter and then slaughter Ranger--in an act of perfect sanity, mind--with the earth-trembling power of quad-wielded sword-chucks.

8BT, you can't let me down now!

[OverNineThousand89]

Yo dawg, we heard you like bows, so we put a Ranger with yo Ranger so you can dual-wield while you dual-wield.

[Flyinsky]

Yo dawg, we heard you like bows, so we put a Ranger with yo Ranger so you can dual-wield while you dual-wield.

Someone already did that joke, a few posts up:

Yo dawg, we heard you like bows, so we put a Ranger on your Ranger so you can dual-wield while you dual-wield




I just hope this lasts long enough to see Ranger puzzle out how he's going to fire any of these bows. Holding them is almost believable, but firing them? He can't even use his mouth, since he's holding the top two with his neck.

[Organism X]

This is where Fighter will inexplicably come along and, with the aid of his reality-warping cluelessness, morph himself into a dual-class Fighter/Fighter and then slaughter Ranger--in an act of perfect sanity, mind--with the earth-trembling power of quad-wielded sword-chucks.

8BT, you can't let me down now!
Super sanity, Super sanity.

[Hanuman]

Bow chucks hmm? No.
Crossbow chucks? Possible.

[bobfish]

Bowchucks? possible. Haven't you ever heard of a bowstaff?

[Hanuman]

I've heard of a bo staff =P

[Kepor]

Lev, if I'm understanding you right, the main problem with multi-shooting arrows is that it divides the force of the bow between the arrows?

[Hanuman]

The force diminishes with more arrows to pull which means the speed of the string snapping decreases which increases friction, which is also increased by having 3 shafts instead of 1.
The way a bow works is that it focuses the exact point of maximum pull directly behind your arrow, when you multishot only the middle arrow has that maximum draw point where as the other 2 are farther up the string, which in turn diffuse the energy from the maximum draw point before it gets there weakening all 3 arrow speeds.

If you need further clarification just ask =]

[Kim]

This is going by a breaking of video game and Dungeons and Dragons logic, not reality logic. Thus they are all going body piercing fast.

[Kepor]

So then, is there a proportion to the reduction of force? As in, three arrows shot from a single bow would only have 1/3 each the force of a single arrow shot from the same bow? And does the arrow placement on the string have an affect?

Also, is the friction of the arrow against the bow really that big a factor?

[Hanuman]

The force of the pull doesn't divide per arrow string, it subtracts the needed force to pull the other arrows from the total.

Yes the placement has an effect because the elastic energy in the string is based on the distance between the 2 points it's pulled back from, and likewise the position of the arrow in relation to that point.

The most efficient way is to space it directly in the center of the 2 points the string is attached to, and put the arrow there, the least efficient would be to pull as close as humanly possibly from 1 end, and put the arrow at the opposite end.

That inefficiency is what makes up the lack of multishot capability, the friction becomes less and less of a factor the faster the wood moves across the handle and we have to remember they are not using any materials that were invented in the late 60's till now (any non-ren archer is going to be using either aluminum or carbon arrows with plastic fins, and the bow grips tend to feel like they are made by a company who makes in-line skates).
This is resin attached cloth to wood, firing more wood.

Also, friction on a bow is not usually a factor when the bow is straight up, but I shouldn't have to tell you that firing 4 bows at once from a position other than having the arrows resting on the bow for support is completely impossible... at least without making the construction process needlessly complicated enough to just make it porcupine crossbow in the first place.

[OverNineThousand89]

Someone already did that joke, a few posts up:






I just hope this lasts long enough to see Ranger puzzle out how he's going to fire any of these bows. Holding them is almost believable, but firing them? He can't even use his mouth, since he's holding the top two with his neck.

I know it was done, I had to fix it... probably should have quoted and put "Fixed" under it for that... stupid, stupid me.