Swordchuck Stage 2: Design

[Hanuman]

Welcome 8-Bit Theater fans to stage 2 of the Sword-Chucks Project, also known as Swordchaku.

If you need more details on exactly what this project entails, a full history from day 1 of the thoughts idea up until the creation of stage two (1.5 months) is available on this thread: http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=32344

Ok, so let's get started.

First of all I need to work with you guys to get an end result that you guys will like more, so I have a few questions to start off with:

1) What does this project need to be exactly, what look to it am I shooting for and what details are necessary to fit the theme? Can anyone describe the exact specs of what I need to emulate?

2) Of course people can't actually be here with me to see them, but there's a good chance people will seeing as I plan to go cross-Canada and also to NZ where I might stop by in AU, and seeing as most of the fans are CA/NZ/AU that might work out.
So the question is: How exactly should I set up the media for this? I've got a few ideas running around in my head but I would really like the fans to brainstorm before I put anything out there which may cement them into acceptance.

Thanks guys, feedback highly appreciated =]

[Hanuman]

Apart from swordchaku, please detail fighter's armor design and what exactly is needed for that, it's red but what exactly would that be IRL? Red leather? Red-anodized aluminum? Dragon scales? <-("I'm Lev, I can make this work.")
The design for the armor needs to be made of leather, metal or miniral just because those materials fend off fire well, any fake fabric or material aka plastics, fake or super airy fabrics such as nylon or polyester cannot be used at all as they tend to melt to the skin or go up in flames.

For what I'd want, is for the armor to pad the bottom of the hand (near the pinky) and fork around the handle coming out, just so it would stave off the INTENSE heat of neutral hanging position.
Seriously guys, round monkeyfist knots give off some ripping waves of heat and they are 2' from your hands, imagine upsidedown cylanders of wick traveling to about 6" from your hand and the intense compounded heat traveling up them and through more flames. Fire dancers tend to make use of the compounding heat effect with fire staff the most seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKSekQBIgtU
25 seconds in he flicks the staff straight up rolling and compounding the heat as it rises... this makes a fireball above the wick which if you were watching it instead of a camera being there would feel like a giant pulse of heat coming from the fabric of reality and washing upon you... 15' away. It's THAT hot.

The reason for this is that air rises, so does fuel evaporating, which means air is going to cycle through more and more fire the taller the fire is starting from the bottom of the wick, which is why you can hold a match flame top and not flame bottom even if the fire isn't technically touching you, the heated air sure is.

Since the heat of fire relies strictly on air, if you move fire around it generally gets colder so when you spin fire its a lot less concentrated than just holding it because the air is only under you a fraction of the time, and the rest of the time it's creating enough air movement from the mass of the wick creating air propulsion to circulate air around your body as well as your physical movement through whatever terrain you happen to be dancing in.

Please give your feedback =]

[Katuko]

1) All I really need to see from this project is someone who is actually capable of handling sword-chucks. With that, I mean "keep them going without knocking yourself out". Further style of performance is up to you.
I'd like to see you wielding two at once, one in each hand spinning like crazy (like the start of the Kary fight), but I can see how that's simply impossible. ;)
2) All you really need is a decent camera on a tripod and someone to use it. Maybe a little stage show for a small crowd could add to the overall feel.
Announcer: So, we got a weapon-wielding artist here for you today... you know about nunchucks?
Crowd: Yeah!
Announcer: Wanna see some in action?
Crowd: YEAH!
Announcer: Well, that's too bad, he ain't got any. But he does have...
*Lev enters*
Lev: Sword-chucks, yo!
Crowd: *Stares in amazement*

Anyways. Fighter armor. Yeah.
The main thing about Fighter's armor is that it is so small and pixelated, leaving a lot up to imagination. You've talked about the practical side, so all I've got for you is some reference images for the aesthetic side of it.
http://images.elfwood.com/fanq/r/e/redbex3/8bittheatre.jpg.rZd.82410.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/orpheus_emerged/DSC06086.jpg
http://www.nuklearpower.com/images/megacon_fight.jpg

[Meister]

1) Given that the source material is 8-bit sprites I think no one would crucify you for just doing what works, as long as the outcome has a discernible "awesome" factor. To put that into more quantifiable words, whatever routine you come up with should be reasonably fast and look (to a layman) like it could do serious damage to anyone on the receiving end. Any impression that you're only narrowly avoiding doing the same sort of damage to yourself is a plus. (Impression as opposed to really only narrowly avoiding to brain yourself.)

Of course if there was any way you could actually stage a mock-fight with those things, I think everyone would agree that you're going above and beyond the call of duty.

Armour: Fighters wear plate armour and no way around it.

[Eldezar]

Although I would suggest some type of scale armor as it would be more flexible. But definitely something metal. If you can do it in a full plate, more power to ya.

What about bitchin' shoulder pads and, like, I dunno spikes! (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060117)

And have one set of blue swordchucks and one set of yellow/gold swordchucks. (or that could be the flame color if those dyes are available.)

[Altune]

This is way over my head. .-. Just keep up the good work.

[Hanuman]

1) All I really need to see from this project is someone who is actually capable of handling sword-chucks. With that, I mean "keep them going without knocking yourself out". Further style of performance is up to you.
I'd like to see you wielding two at once, one in each hand spinning like crazy (like the start of the Kary fight), but I can see how that's simply impossible. ;)To make their physical form a blur is impossible, and seeing as the actual fighting is represented as such I have no reference point to replicate it (honestly I don't think Brian actually designed it with it being possible in mind) but given my way once I make one I can show you how single style works, and with training double.
I know it does work, and I've seen a form of doubleclub used before, I just need to design it and that's what we are working on, the physical specs.
2) All you really need is a decent camera on a tripod and someone to use it. Maybe a little stage show for a small crowd could add to the overall feel.A video then, I was thinking for video I'd get a cannon HV20 with external mic.

Anyways. Fighter armor. Yeah.
The main thing about Fighter's armor is that it is so small and pixelated, leaving a lot up to imagination. You've talked about the practical side, so all I've got for you is some reference images for the aesthetic side of it.
http://images.elfwood.com/fanq/r/e/r....rZd.82410.jpg (http://images.elfwood.com/fanq/r/e/redbex3/8bittheatre.jpg.rZd.82410.jpg)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...d/DSC06086.jpg (http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/orpheus_emerged/DSC06086.jpg)
http://www.nuklearpower.com/images/megacon_fight.jpgI don't think I can pull off a look that's THAT skinny and fragile, as I am 20 at the moment and only a little ectomorphic leaning hard towards mesomorphic, although I'm not "buff" by any means simply because I train to create dense muscle instead of large inefficient muscle which gets full of lactic acid.

The elfwood hosted image seems to be the style that would work the best, the most practical red leather pads and black dyed cotton for everything else, the hair I wound find a nice actual hair dye, not anime one, and wear that in for about a week ahead of time... but getting it to stand up without lighting up is still a mystery I'll need to check into.

Armour: Fighters wear plate armour and no way around it.That's a more daunting project in itself than swordchaku, for me anyway ;]
Sewing kevlar and screwing a bolt or two into a length of rebar is one thing, pounding metal into beautiful shapes is another, I have a friend who is an armorer hobbyist but he works chain mail, not solid metal... so the idea of scale mail is possible (yet amazingly heavy) and I'm friends with the owner of a crystal shop so crystal/precious stone armor is "possible" but really I don't have the tools to do it.
I'll do more research and I'll consider this avenue if it fits my budget... 8 plates of anodized aluminum in custom aesthetic shapes.

I would suggest some type of scale armor as it would be more flexible.As an example Scale Vests (http://theringlord.com/images/products/scales/ericplumata.jpg) weigh about 4-5lbs (pretty damn light, thank god for aluminum) and are composed of 4000 scales, the cost would be around $120-$140 + S&H

And have one set of blue swordchucks and one set of yellow/gold swordchucks. (or that could be the flame color if those dyes are available.)I can probably hook up different colors to the material used, blue and yellow/gold sounds easy enough.

Fire is naturally yellow/orange.
The only salts available to me are green and red, but if I greenscreen filter it to a blue hue I guess that would change the green flame to blue on film anyway, I'll think about it =]



Also, here's something I found.
http://www.feuershow.de/shop/deep_en.html?11989651809270,127,0
Double flame shortswords, as a bonus they connect at the handles to make a short flameswordstaff. 180cm is just a bit too big for me to attach them with tethers so I'll have to think about it, the handles are a bit too large so if sawing off half the handle is possible I might order these pro grade ones and butcher them into custom props.

Thanks a lot for your input, please contribute to the design as much as you can =]

[Willowhugger]

Awesome project.

Thank you for doing this.

I hope you put up a Youtube of the results.

[Hanuman]

Awesome project.

Thank you for doing this.

I hope you put up a Youtube of the results.
If you want youtube alerts for my video progress please subscribe to the account listed in my signature =]

For the record, I'm not doing this for your thanks, I'm doing this for your amusement :D

Please, if you have more questions I'd really like to hear them!

[bobfish]

but getting it to stand up without lighting up is still a mystery I'll need to check into.

What about hat hair?

[Hanuman]

That might work, if I condition it with heat, pressure and brushing alone to get really really high lift then use a bit of moisture and a brush to shape it after the volume is added. Does anyone know anything about advanced hairstyling techniques?

[Katuko]

To make their physical form a blur is impossible, and seeing as the actual fighting is represented as such I have no reference point to replicate it (honestly I don't think Brian actually designed it with it being possible in mind) but given my way once I make one I can show you how single style works, and with training double.
I know it does work, and I've seen a form of doubleclub used before, I just need to design it and that's what we are working on, the physical specs.

Double? Oh. Emm. Gee! I would love you then. (In a strictly non-gay way, of course.)


The elfwood hosted image seems to be the style that would work the best, the most practical red leather pads and black dyed cotton for everything else
As long as it's red armor it's fine by me. :)


I can probably hook up different colors to the material used, blue and yellow/gold sounds easy enough.

Fire is naturally yellow/orange.
The only salts available to me are green and red, but if I greenscreen filter it to a blue hue I guess that would change the green flame to blue on film anyway, I'll think about it =]
If you need any help with video editing, I can help.

[Hanuman]

Just to clarify again, this project is used in the style of object manipulation and not actual weaponry.
As such it requires large amounts of practice and large amounts of time for your muscle fibers to become dense and thick enough to support odd-frame movements without risk of tissue injury.
It's kind of like juggling... it seems jedi but thats only because of the amount of practice involved.

Hope that clears things up.

[Katuko]

Oh, I know there's no fighting involved. ;)

[Eldezar]

What happens to your hair when you shower before bed and leave your hair wet/damp? For me it is always stuck in a different style, most commonly it'll be straight back like i combed it, spike-ish or matted. Maybe test with that to see if it helps in the styling process.

Forgot about the natural color of flames being yellow/red. But all yellow (bright bright yellow) or gold would still be cool.

[Hanuman]

What happens to your hair when you shower before bed and leave your hair wet/damp?
It looks goofy =P
I'll speak with my hair stylist at Ego Hairspace about options next time I'm in to get some further insight.

The color of high flashpoint fuel is on the fire sword example on the last thread.

[Khael!]

Green fire instead of blue would still work out well I think. That yellowy high-flashpoint goodness I see in the videos should be just fine too.

I don't have any ideas for hairstyling... or ideas for much of any of this! I do intend to find you and see a performance if you swing by Ottawa on that tour.

I'll do more research and I'll consider this avenue if it fits my budget... 8 plates of anodized aluminum in custom aesthetic shapes.

That's about what I'd imagine, aluminum solving things. The scale mail would work too so long as you had the shoulder pauldron/spaulders to make it more 'complete'. Actually, spaulders would probably be better than pauldrons for mobility.

[Eldezar]

Reading through some of the old comics and found this...

http://www.nuklearpower.com/images/warlord_chucks.jpg

... I wonder if these are at all possible to wield. Particularly when I remember this chick...

http://www.geekwear.biz/KillBillGoGoBallArm.jpg

So, I know your focus is on your mini-swords on a tether, but is there any hope for a sword 'n' chain design?

[Hanuman]

Actually, spaulders would probably be better than pauldrons for mobility.Neither traditional style would work well.
Think of the swimming breaststroke, that's about how much shoulder mobility I need.

Particularly when I remember this chick...She was using a sort of switch-saw version of flying weight in kill bill, which is a very real and valid weapon (flying weight) similar to classic Shaolin meteor hammer. (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZMM0ESgXrA)

The weight she is using is dramatically large though, there's no reason to use a weight that large since a standard weight amplifies to 90kg of force in full swing... and if you can already smash a skull then making it any bigger is counter-intuive to the practicality of it.

So, I know your focus is on your mini-swords on a tether, but is there any hope for a sword 'n' chain design?The thing is, when you try and manage a weight attached to a tether you have to move your arm to guide the direction you want to give the tether, and when you add more than one (to the same hand point) it NEEDS to be either:
A) Symmetrical in a fashion that they can both be guided and energy channeled into them (yes, odd term but kinetic energy is energy) at the same time in the same way in the same ratio.
or
B) Aligned, which basically means that multiple tethers are emulating each other's orbits in a way that both does not interfere with each other's orbits, nor do they diffuse or accelerate the orbits (if both, then equal to those effected in turn) or they will become misaligned and therefore non-symmetrical.

Basically, what would happen is that the ring would stablize the position of the tethers, which would hit eachother and tangle making the weapon more or less a multihead flail, though inefficient at it's job seeing as it would be completely impossible to control the sharp face, which is why flails are all designed multi-directional, and spiked because their main use is to wrap around shields then go through soft armor with their spikes. For image see: http://www.renstore.com/mmRENSTORE/Images/esw40006.jpg

The reason SwordChucks are different is that they are using a non-swinging sword and a swinging sword in each hand so I can manipulate one sword per hand with simple hand angling and the other with adding energy into it in the way I want it to.

----

Thanks for the armor info, does anyone happen to have a decent knowledge in metal plate armors and how to mod them? My armorer only does chain and scale.

Also, does anyone have any sketching ability? If so I'd really like to have some concept sketches made up for either weapon or armor.

Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated!

[Hanuman]

At my last burn someone loaned me some firesnakes, and I was wondering the application of firesnakes to swordchucks...
What a firesnake is, is just a standard braided length of kevlar wick attached to a 2" chain then handles, but while spinning they look exactly like fireswords without a handle (fireswords without a handle being what I envision to be to the non-grip weight), so I guess my question would be:

Is there a major difference to you, the fans, if the end weight has a bar of metal/wood through the center, or can it just be pure wick?

Keep in mind, I can do both and just have changable setups!

Benefits:
Ligher, flexible, more wick.
This encourages better travel packing for a spinner on the go, also the flexibility allows impacts to squeeze out less fuel, which means a smaller chance of burning yourself.
Wick contains fuel, fuel lights on fire, more wick = MORE FIRE.

Negatives:
No handle, they are not swords, they are flexible.
Having no handle on 1 end means it retards the capability of the tool in the way I can transition it, like for instance if I was going to do a throw (throw a spinning swordchuck in the air and catch it again) it would have 1 less side I could catch it on, disabling half of the adaptability for catching it again, also I can't use anything resembling real nunchaku moves because they are too flexible, which means I'd have to do standard wraps (VERY DANGEROUS WITH SNAKES) instead of reverse directional hits you'd find in nunchaku style. Having this kind of diminishes the unique style you'd get out of 2 stiff weights, and to make it look the same you'd have to set a lot of barriers around certain moves, diminishing the freedom of the tool (not that the untrained audience can tell at all).
Also, keep in mind they really are not swords, and they are not going to look anything like swords unlit, even normal fireswords don't have blades (because they are covered in fuel-absorbing wick).

Please comment!

[Hanuman]

I'd like to add that after this project is finished, I'll consider starting a project around staffchucks with real effects =]

[Hanuman]

Hello, just checking in guys. My internet access has been limited lately as I've run into budget problems but I'll be able to communicate on a weekly basis.
Anyway, designs are going well and I've been able to refine the movement paths of the tool, and have found some adaptations that have created some brick walls in the process that simply cannot be resolved, luckily these positions are both only specific advanced movements which by no means detract from the tool.

Movements of late have opened up and become fluid, and as such has become far more impressive than when I was doing preliminary training with it.

I'll hope to contact my fabrication partner and get back to you with a balanced and working prototype for a training pair soon.

Thanks guys.

[So Money]

So, is this still happening? I'm really looking forward to seeing where this ended up.

[Hanuman]

Things are going well, due to budget problems I'm having to stick with R&D at the moment, consulting the concept with professional dancers and jugglers as well as general firespinners.
Training has been going well though my main focus right now is with throwing technique to spin them in the air and catch again like regular pin juggling and once we get a working model I'll work on swordchuck throw tech and double meteor hammer rendition using the chains to switch grips, both meteor rolls and throws allow for instantaneous grip changes so that tells me the finished product will need to have grips on both chain-end points instead of the single grip I had originally envisioned.

I've got a working sketch for the finished product which includes:
2 sheets of folded, and bolted kevlar wick lanyards sewn together over a metal pole.
This should create a standing point and blade for the chuck while the structure is unlikely to cause lacerations or major concussive damage in the case of a cranial blow.

The pole is welded to a solid metal round which acts as a main tsuba to deflect the heat away from the hand, this tsuba is bolted on 4 sides to the secondary tsuba which is welded to the handle, inbetween the tsubas is a kevlar spacer to act as an insolating pad to avoid efficient heat transfer from the blade structure to the handle structure.
The handle below the tsuba is going to be made of metal wrapped in a silicone/kevlar grip which should withstand upwards of 300c or 600f temperatures from the handle.
Below the grip is a welded oval ring attached to a swivel attached to a chain, the chain is attached to the exact same thing mirrored on the other side.

The finished product needs only one of these to be fabricated to be a functional sword (and we may install miniature quicklinks to disassemble the swordchucks within a few minutes to reveal several inches of chain and 4 individual functioning fire shortswords.), 2 for swordchuck and 4 for double swordchuck.

The burn should last for 3-5 minutes depending on how heavy the fuel is, in this case what ratio of white gas to lamp oil, though the longer the burn time the more chance flecks of burning fuel will fly off since having too low or too high a flashpoint is dangerous to both the performer and the audience.

I'm really looking for more info from the fans at this point, does anyone have any ideas?

[tacticslion]

I... wow. This is incredible.

As far as armors go, Fighter recieved Fire Armor made from the scales of a Fire dragon just before his fight with Kary, so scale armor is easily explained by this. I've seen thick leather armor and it's pretty tough-looking, so really I'd suggest going for what's best for you from amongst those two. Yes, Fighter really wears plate armor, but I really don't think that's as important in this project. The fact that you're doing as much as you are is amazing enough.

If you could get 'Kary' (especially a video-edited six-armed snake Kary) to breath fire upon your swords, that would be unbelievably awesome, but as others have said: DON'T HURT YOURSELF OR OTHERS. If it's perfectly safe, I vote for a mock fight, but any impossibilities of this are completely understood. Seriously, these are all but suggestions... you're the one that has the budget, work, and everything else difficult to work out. Thank you for what you've done so far.

Edit: I don't seem to be able to subscribe to your channel. I don't know why?

[Kepor]

Also, does anyone have any sketching ability? If so I'd really like to have some concept sketches made up for either weapon or armor.

CelesJessa is probably one of the more skilled artists on the forums; you might try talking to her. I don't know if concept sketches would fall in her area of expertise, but she might be able to refer you to someone all the same.

[Hanuman]

If you could get 'Kary' (especially a video-edited six-armed snake Kary) to breath fire upon your swords, that would be unbelievably awesome
Chances are if I can recruit someone from my fire troupe to breathe the most tasteful thing to shoot for would just be red body paint and custom clothing, the closest thing to graphic alteration would maybe be in a separate small photoshoot with the arms shopped in (I also was in digital editing for about 5-6 years).

DISCLAIMER
I shouldn't have to say this but by no means should anyone attempt fire breathing unless you are using water to simulate practice; fire breathing performed by anyone regardless of training is not safe and should not be considered as such.
If you are 100% committed to learning it as passion you should consult your city or town's fire group to find how to locate a local TRAINED fire breather and ask if you can study under them until they feel you are ready.
Do not attempt fire breathing untrained, if you feel you absolutely must then research what types of fuels to use and get a supplier, by absolutely no means use any form of alcohol or gasoline.

CelesJessa is probably one of the more skilled artists on the forums; you might try talking to her. I don't know if concept sketches would fall in her area of expertise, but she might be able to refer you to someone all the same.
Thank you very much, I'll consider that and try to consult with her in the next few weeks.

Edit: I don't seem to be able to subscribe to your channel. I don't know why?
I have no idea, I'll try and get some videos going soon but lacking a computer and internet has kind of hampered the progress on those projects, thanks a bunch for your patience, please check back with the forum as this project unfolds =]

[cwDeici]

I think if you can make this work as a combat method you should become a vigilante and mercilessly slay a burglar to achieve fame!

[Hanuman]

I have a new recruit for the project who has access to mig welding so we should be able to machine a prototype soon, I'd prefer a tig but this will have to do.

After the prototype skeleton is configured I'll use some cloth to proxy the kevlar so you guys can get a visual on how this is going to turn out.

Thanks everyone for your patience, I have about 5 projects on the go right now so thanks for bearing with me though this funding rut.

I promise at least some full proxy pics in the next month, and possibly sketches in 1-2 weeks.

[Hanuman]

Update-
The Swordchaku facebook group is now created and should be filled out by next week.
Here's a link.
[Join the Swordchaku Facebook Group] (http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=swordchaku&init=q)

[Hanuman]

Anime Evolution was pushed forward by 2 and a half months (First day of it was today.) for apparently no reason so cosplay is not viable this year, nor is having a working model available at the con.
Please keep in mind that by next year or possibly a different con before then might be an option, especially for unlit still frame shots if I can be connected with a FF1 fighter cosplayer who is already scheduled.

Flame shots are a completely different ballpark, and need special training and preparation in physical, mental and material fields.

I've spoken with some stylists and I'm trying to wrap my head around what needs to be done to my hair (keep in mind synthetic hair is absolutely not going to happen, ever) to both make it look the part, not be big enough to catch on fire, not to be flimsy enough to come out of it's preparation both from movement and heat, and not to react with the flame. I've been assured that most haircare products will not catch on fire or melt the hair once they are set in, but instead will smolder with the hair in a dry way, though I'm concerned what might happen if the fuel comes off into the hair in first stage of burn and changes the chemical compounds of the product as the fuel is disolved then instead of burning on spot rapidly cascades into the hair (if you've ever seen lit fuel drop onto water, snow, or ice you know what I'm talking about).

Does anyone have connections with career chemists/chemistry students/stylists/haircare specialists?

[Hanuman]

New concept art is finally available courtesy of Aaron Scmit, which is currently available in both Original and Preview sizes, and will be available in Clean and Color later.
Enjoy!

Original(70MB)-
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L6K2SO7Y

Preview(1.3MB)-
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/861/fgtff1swcksketcha03.png

[Ravashak]

Looks awesome, ánd unsafe xP

[Hanuman]

Current schematic data:

Metal Frame-

Part 1-
Blade Rod:
L / 7.5"
W / 0.3"
Blade Tsuba:
D / 2.5"
W / 0.1"

Part 2-
Handle Rod:
L / 5"
W / 0.3"
Handle Tsuba:
D / 2.5"
W / 0.1"
Welded Ring"
D / 0.25"

4 cap screws (bolted joints which join the metal sections together)

Chain-
Standard chain/barrel swiv OR heavy gage ball.

Wicking-
Blade Section:
W / 1.5"x1.0"
L / 7.8" APROX
Center spacer round:
D / 2.4"
W / 0.2"
Handle section:
W / 1"
L / 5''


*Ratio will remain generally fixed; configuration is highly subject to change.
Please keep in mind that this ratio is not static depending on the height and proportion of the body, and is configured for a 15"-17" PL.

[Eldezar]

I don't know about everyone else, but I am silently rooting for you. Not so silently now that I am posting, but you get the idea. I just don't think anyone has any other advice or criticism they can give you at this point unless they are literally in the business of or have a skills needed as well to make this work. Just wanted to say it's great that you've been sticking with this and really hope it turns out amazing. Just make sure you pass through southwestern Ohio at some point during your tour.

[Hanuman]

In the next 2 years I might visit Hamilton, if so I promise a free show up there for you and I'll try to remember Ohio specifically in case I'm around that area but otherwise at least you're 1/11th the distance to Hamilton than I am. =]

The minimum price estimation for this rig is aprox 200-250CAD for the full prototype set of all 4 making 2 pairs of these firetoys.

Further research into Gora swords shows that they are aprox 30% longer due to no tsuba and making up for it with ample handle area to place the hand far enough away from the soaked wick. Modifying Gora swords has now been eliminated as a viable option, though if it had worked it would have been aprox 15%-20% more expensive and 60%+ heavier than our prototype design.

[Meister]

I just don't think anyone has any other advice or criticism they can give you at this point unless they are literally in the business of or have a skills needed as well to make this work.
Yep, same here. I'm always glad to see an update on this project.

[Arhra]

Yeah, the amount of work being put into this is just amazing.

[Geminex]

You, my friend... You are awesome. As in "when-I-take-over-the-world-I'm-giving-you-Canada" awesome. I like the concept art and the idea, but what amazes me most is that someone, out there, will read a comic with an idea that is only meant to highlight the stupidity of a certain character, store that idea and then engage on an epic quest to make this idea real for no more reason than to see whether he can, and to appease a huge fan-base.

It's less the awesomeness of the sword-chucks than it is the spirit of discovery, the curiosity.
I would tip my hat to you, but I'm not wearing one. And anyway, you're getting Canada.

[Hanuman]

Today I have begun using my 560g chainmail weights for the swinging end which should present an accurate proxy to the normal weight, and despite my continual training with heavier and heavier weights, and my workout schedule I find myself still without ease of use. The weight is currently still a bit of a strain in reverse grip as needed for swordchaku; over the next year I plan to increase my workout and nutritional efficiency planning as to reach almost the brink of overtraining, as to lessen the strain of the wield to about half their actual weight as it effects me now. Once the prototype proxy is built I'll start using both the angle and swung head in full weight.

I will post pictures of the Mark4 weights/chains (Compliments of Kyle Tay) in the next 2 weeks.

[fryplink]

I have a friend who does chain mail working, and maybe a chain shirt (his chain shirts are priced about $80 US) with a ceramic breast plate, greaves and other armor pieces, if made and dyed appropriately ceramic will only be slightly heavier than aluminum and much cheaper (you js to to rent a kiln) if you glaze it well its shiney like metal and white/grey/red to appear like whatever armor you want. this is a half-plate armor design

For the hair I'd suggest elmers glue (dont gross out yet). its water soluble, relatively natural (compared to gel) and it hardens in about 5 mins. I had 9 inch spikes in my hair once (temp dye- green) for a homecoming celebration. The glue came out when i took a shower that night. I got the idea from a friend who had 14 inch liberty spikes, to as long as the glue-hair ratio is good (he used about 3x as much glue as i did) you can sculpt any amount of hair

i dont know much about all of the fire sticks and things, but instead of using the sword chucks in nun-chuck style try using it like a chain. Fighter (in the comic) appears (in my opinion) to use them more like a weapon-adapted chain (think flail meets whip, you keep it spinning all the time, until you swipe at which point you js change the direction of the swipe, its always spinning) this means you can use 2 at once (it will still be really tricky though). IDK if you intend on having a "sword" linked by chains or something else, but swords bolted together with a chain would allow for this 'style' one handed, assuming they arn't too heavy. if you dont understand but are curious still, js ask, ill try to clarify.

Sorry if this has already been said or was what you intended to do.

[Hanuman]

I have a friend who does chain mail working, and maybe a chain shirt (his chain shirts are priced about $80 US) with a ceramic breast plate, greaves and other armor pieces, if made and dyed appropriately ceramic will only be slightly heavier than aluminum and much cheaper (you js to to rent a kiln) if you glaze it well its shiney like metal and white/grey/red to appear like whatever armor you want. this is a half-plate armor design
I think for this one I might go for leather as it's cheaper, I can make it, it has a semi-matte finish, it's light, flexible, fireproof and generally looks better as if I spring for a full intricate costume I'll be putting it up for sale after in case someone wants to buy it, though if it doesn't sell I'll just continue to use it.

Ceramic plate, if viable is a great idea though please keep in mind all I need is natural fiber, after the first stage of fuel expulsion wicks only spread enough fuel to cause a fuel fire and don't usually catch clothing but rather singe it and put soot on it from the original wick contact. It's like putting a small amount of lighter fluid on something then lighting it, the fluid goes away and the fire goes out because it wasn't burning long enough for it to conduct the heat to the clothing for the clothing material to hit it's flash-point.

For the hair I'd suggest elmers glue (dont gross out yet). its water soluble, relatively natural (compared to gel) and it hardens in about 5 mins. I had 9 inch spikes in my hair once (temp dye- green) for a homecoming celebration. The glue came out when i took a shower that night. I got the idea from a friend who had 14 inch liberty spikes, to as long as the glue-hair ratio is good (he used about 3x as much glue as i did) you can sculpt any amount of hairVery interesting, that's a very economic solution so I'll def. try it out in the meantime.

i dont know much about all of the fire sticks and things, but instead of using the sword chucks in nun-chuck style try using it like a chain. Fighter (in the comic) appears (in my opinion) to use them more like a weapon-adapted chain (think flail meets whip, you keep it spinning all the time, until you swipe at which point you js change the direction of the swipe, its always spinning) this means you can use 2 at once (it will still be really tricky though). IDK if you intend on having a "sword" linked by chains or something else, but swords bolted together with a chain would allow for this 'style' one handed, assuming they arn't too heavy. if you dont understand but are curious still, js ask, ill try to clarify.The current status of the project is that these will be a steel rod being intersected by a tsuba, both sides wrapped in kevlar where as one side will be soaked in fuel to act as a standard firetoy wick, the handles chained to another firesword of the same variety. Fireswords generally look like this: http://www.homeofpoi.com/images/Medium/swords_fire-sword-1.jpg
The viability of this project is mostly saved due to the fact that I'm replacing the vey VERY dangerous element of swinging sharp pointed metal around to swinging padded blunted metal which's pad is on fire, and for a fire dancer that's actually nothing to worry about, honestly.

I'm going to be using the swordchaku in reversegrip neo-poi style as that's what I'm trained in, but these are completely revolutionary fire toys so I'll be adapting doublestaff movement into it as well as angled sword's artistic means.

For further information please look into previous posts, and the original post which contains the previous thread.

Here's the latest video of the group I train with shot by a friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8qw2s3iaE4


Thanks for your input, looking forward to hearing from you again =]

[Hanuman]

After speaking with fire veteran Dax I have new insight into the materials needed, which should drastically decrease the difficulty, weight and a small amount of cost from the construction of the finished model, the weight might decrease up to 50% which is a great leap for the ease of use.

We are setting up an object manipulation group located around Vancouver based at Trout Lake, dance studios, a large co-op and other various locations. Group training will begin shortly as well as more formal dance training in July to refine the aesthetics of how swordchaku will be presented.

[Hanuman]

This Sunday I'll be discussing frame-to-wick attachment with some wick fabricators, and will work on drawing up welding blueprints in the next week.

I have full access to mig tig and stick at the moment so shortly after the blueprints are drawn up I can start machining, after which I'll attach cloth wicks as apposed to kevlar to save on cost to proxy the finished product which will allow me to train with the weight balance while I save up for around $200+ worth of kevlar wick.

Thanks for your patience!

[Hanuman]

I have the funds to build the Mark 1 Swordchaku (Proxy) using cotton single use wicks at an estimated 150s burn time.

Pictures will be posted upon completion.

[Hanuman]

Slight hiccup in the plans, there is a fireban in effect until after august due to the heatwave, so September will be the earliest we can do fire here.

[Hanuman]

Unfortunately due to my funds being continuously in the redline I haven't been able to risk investing in the materials needed, but that certainly hasn't stopped me from continuing research and making connections so:

The materials, design and process have all been re-made, and the best part is that I've reduced the amount of welding needed to practically nothing.

The new design is lighter weight, this is achieved through replacing the aluminum tubing or steel frame with wooden dowels, and to replace the metal I am using aluminum tape to protect the wood during a burn, I had a chance to handle and use this fire sword model last night at a lantern festival we performed at and they handle beautifully, this also means that the length can be custom fit depending on the size of the user, making this a do-it-yourself option.
In summery, I've created a fireswordchuck model you can actually make at home for extremely cheap!

Also, a fellow performer has offered to source me some kevlar out of Seattle (very close to here) at cost!

All this means is not only is this project viable, but it can be expanded and I can make different models for relatively cheap!

The new aprox cost of 1 pair has gone down to equal or less than $50, or a little over $50 for a pair that REALLY blazes!

OK guys, once I get my funding together you guys are going to have swordchucks!

[Satan's Onion]

...
OK guys, once I get my funding together you guys are going to have swordchucks!

You couldn't have heard it, but I kind of squealed a little with anticipation.

[Hanuman]

On Sunday's burn I tested a proxy of sworchucks on fire and as nearly overwhelming as it was, it worked perfectly.

On a side note, I'm investing in the wood and aluminum needed to construct the skeleton of the swords now and that should be done fairly quickly, thanks for your patience!

[Hanuman]

I'll be speaking with Kira soon, who is a fire performer veteran here who has a history in firetool production including high quality fire swords, from here I'm going to improve the design of the handles to include counterweights and aluminum tubing arrays to neutralize any heat transfer, as the current model designs are estimated to have enough heat transfer to partially melt the inside of the grip tape.

[Hanuman]

I had a good picture of me taken using proxy swordchucks, hopefully the photographer will show up tonight and I'll be able to upload it to you guys.

[Hanuman]

She wasn't there last night so I'll send her an email.

Some guys from Alaska did show up and were juggling flaming machetes and sawblades, here's a link!
http://tribes.tribe.net/churchofflamingfunk

[Hanuman]

I managed to pull my budget out of the redlines and I'm buying some kevlar this weekend, after that all I'll have to do is arrange with Kira and the swordchucks are as good as made!
If she is unavailable I'll do my best to make them with the information I've gathered from swordsmiths and firetool makers. I have access to regular fireswords so I'll also check those out.

[Codemonkey85]

I really hope the reason we haven't been updated on this yet isn't because the 'chucks were made and then used. Please let us know you're still alive Lev, and haven't been reduced to several bloody stumps.

EDIT:

Nevermind, phil_ (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/member.php?u=2635) PMed me a link to the new thread that I totally never noticed at all (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=36390). :\

[Hanuman]

The swords aren't heavy enough to need balancing, whether or not my poor hands will be able to survive the heat is another matter all together... leather gloves are in the budget.