Homage Vs Copyright Vs Cliche in writing books

[Bells]

So, in the long Fantasy novel i'm working on, i try to working the use of Magical spells under a specific system. This being that most characters who want to use a certain spell, ritual or such usually use visual cues, symbols (specific objects), incantations or "power words" to "trigger" the exact effect they want.

I try to explain this, earlier on, saying that when someone manipulates the energy around them to generate a very specific effect that they've practiced, it's always best to associate, mentally, the effect to a related word, phrase, visual aid or object... and that this method became the best tool for learning and teaching, and for people who have acquired a large "arsenal" of spells to not mix them up (as their emotional state also affects the results)

That being said... being a fan of anime/manga/eastern narrative style, i couldn't help but to go that way when i'm writing the stuff i like. But when it comes down to looking for interesting and relevant words for spells, "special attacks", and objects in the world... i'm usually trapped in the void of non-inspiration. That was until i started drinking from the fountain of "referencing stuff that i like"... Aka "homaging the crap out of everything".

And that just brought to me a new doubt... is that too much of a cliche to use? Is it, y'know... actually legal? And even more soo... is it any good?

I don't draw entirely from Japanese stuff, i try to be Global as it fits the scenario (one character if from france. Every single spell she knows is in French, for instance). So i have some stuff using Nordic Runes, Spanish, English, Portuguese, African and a lot of japanese stuff...

Just to illustrate, Raigeki (a card in Yu Gi Oh), Senkou Tsuijinga (Light Spear Cannon From the Tales series), Birds of Paradise (from Magic the Gathering), and many more have already foudn their way into the story as incantations or spells or objects in the world.

So, what do you guys think of heading into that direction?

EDIT/PS: Just to illustrate further... the main character develops a Light Spell that evolves trought the story... and in itself, it's a homage. Going from Sohma ("positive energy of the soul" from Shurato anime) to Ain Soph Aur ("limitess light" from ToS2) to Quo Vadis (Ultimate Light attack from Crisom Dukemon - Digimon tamers)

[Mirai Gen]

Given the fact that wizards in all sorts of fantasy work for years and years generally either bark in SUPER URGENT POWERFUL ENGLISH or mess up some variant of Draconic or Elven or Abyssal or Celestial or whatever, it stands to perfectly good reason that wizards of the future would adapt spellcasting to whatever language they like.

The part that you start to lose me is when you reference specific names and games, as I think that one or two is a good homage where as five to ten is a bit over the line. Lord knows I make enough very very thinly veiled references to video game culture, but you have to know when you're just making yourself sound silly.

Speaking of silly; there's also the problem of 'Magic attacks that evolve.' It just sounds so incredibly anime-ish, and in written prose meaning to take itself seriously that isn't a good thing. Having a magic attack named is okay but having it 'change its power level' and therefore 'become a whole new attack' sounds way, way, way too goofy. That might just be me though.

I'd go with consistency - Sohma being the base light energy of the soul, then just make up words from then on, that sort of thing.

[Kim]

Speaking of silly; there's also the problem of 'Magic attacks that evolve.' It just sounds so incredibly anime-ish, and in written prose meaning to take itself seriously that isn't a good thing. Having a magic attack named is okay but having it 'change its power level' and therefore 'become a whole new attack' sounds way, way, way too goofy. That might just be me though.


I'm going to side with Mirai on that the whole power levels and evolving magic/attacks being something primarily from Japanese culture and anime, and in most cases wouldn't work well. This is not to say that it couldn't be. Basically, go for it if you think you're up to the challenge of making it believable, but tread carefully.

[Bells]

Thank you both! that's exactly the type of input i was looking for... because i really don't want to go "eragon" with this... but i already accepted that i can't shake off entirely the notion that if i write... it slides towards anime/manga style of things (Not just battle scenes, the whole thing). And i really want to balance that out in the end... im just not sure on the "how". Making names that doesn't sound stupid is HARD. I mean, i was able to get the name of the characters down easy because i went with Mythology on that (because it, again, suits the scenario). But names for Weapons, Objects, places, Spells? Holy crap...

On the "evolving power" thing, that's just for one character (the main), because at least at first... it suited the character. He is a "beautiful mind" kinda of guy. Not a fighter, but a brilliant person (who's actually is able to mimic a spell he sees just once because he "understood" the workings behind it), so, since he is not really a fighter he never develops his own fighting skills to a larger extent... so when pressed to it, he is able to generate a sudden burst of energy. Focusing a lot of it in a short amount of time. The drawback being that he can't hold it. Later on, he trains that and he is able to hold it, evolving the one handed burst into a charged blast... much later on, in a fit of anger, he is actually able to generate 2 of these charged blasts at once, making a beam.

So, as you can see, this is totally the type of thing you would see on a Shonen manga. I'm just really trying to see if i can pull this off on a serious and likable note

[Mirai Gen]

Later on, he trains that and he is able to hold it, evolving the one handed burst into a charged blast... much later on, in a fit of anger, he is actually able to generate 2 of these charged blasts at once, making a beam.
It's still the same attack. That's the point - attacks that 'evolve' are very Japanese anime, whereas just being better at an attack is totally normal.

[Kim]

One thing I'd recommend is rather than having the Hulk-Laser, making it as a result of something else. The anime influence, while it also affects everything I write, tends to clash a bit with the standard fantasy setting. So, instead of having it come about in response to emotion or something along those lines, have some outside element that doesn't sound contrived causing/influencing it, and have that play a role in the overarching plot. This separates it from the whole "As powerful as the plot wants him to be at the time" problem and would give a chance to draw the audience in by making them curious about what the cause is sort of thing.

[Bells]

It's still the same attack. That's the point - attacks that 'evolve' are very Japanese anime, whereas just being better at an attack is totally normal.

Wait, just to see if i got your point... if i kept the same name, it wouldn't sound as goofy as it would by having "levels"? Or just the notion of a Attack evolving in it's form and power makes it sound silly?

@Noncon:

I came to accept my way of writing when i felt "ok" that Odin in this Book is actually a tall red headed (red Sonja like) Woman (I'm working on the notion that Human kind got the Mythology right, but a lot of "details" wrong). It was my way to numb people for the crazy that would follow, such as one of the first villains earlier on being a Vanir (The main characters are new takes on the Aesir) with Titanic force and a colossal Bow that, since it's too big, she can't use her arms to shoot with it, so she uses her legs and feet, usually in midair... crazy stuff like that, that i enjoy, just because it's different. So, i'll probably not have much of a problem generating new outside elements... but here is where i trip a little, wouldn't a exterior plot device coming in aid at a moment of need be too much "Deus Ex"?

[Kim]

I was thinking something more "ancient artifact the hero finds to gain power to defeat villain, and as time passes or hero does such and such thing it makes him stronger, only there is a negative consequence" or something. However, it sounds like you pretty much intend to saturate your novel with anime style, so it won't feel as out of place as I originally expected, though whether the thing as a whole will feel cohesive to the reader remains to be seen.

Also keep in mind that, "I reached given amount of being pissed off now I am super powerful" can also feel very Deus Ex to readers.

I hope I'm not coming off too harsh. I just have a lot of experience with terrible writing, by that I mean mine, so I know from experience how easy it is to ruin something you're writing and the sort of stuff that has a tendency to do that if you aren't careful.

[Bells]

not at all! I want the harsh opinions. I got less writing experience than Stephenie Meyer for crying out loud! Any thing i can hear to have me thinking more critically of my own work, is a plus... i never wrote anything from start to finish, but I've been working on this story for 10+ years... now that I'm actually punching the keys to make it a solid book, i really want to "trim the fat", since I'm not really all that sure that Anime-styled book writing is marketable, but that's what i got right now...

[Mirai Gen]

Wait, just to see if i got your point... if i kept the same name, it wouldn't sound as goofy as it would by having "levels"? Or just the notion of a Attack evolving in it's form and power makes it sound silly?
Both, although having a power evolve would make more sense if it was at least described in a way that makes it more sentient or at least ever-changing.

There's also the fact that the power 'changing' and he becomes aware of his new attack reeks of all kinds of Eastern anime, akin to how a pokemon can learn new attacks with their own name whenever plot says they can.

Also this could be handled but honestly having an attack that's just 'an energy blast' given a Super Special Name is akin to learning to throw fireballs and calling it your Great Mighty Fireball Power. Nobody really does it in conversation and it sounds silly to say out loud, though it fits with Eastern animation. Which is why it might need to be dropped.

[Kim]

One thing that you should keep in mind that is often my downfall is think about the medium you're writing it for. For example, you're writing a book, but, based on what little I know, it gives off the impression that it would work better in manga form, as even though it's fantasy, a lot of the elements would seem less out of place. So, when you have an idea, really think about what medium the idea seems best suited for. Would it be better as a book, or a live action television show? Would it be better as an anime, or as a three panel webcomic? Obviously, unless you have some art skills, you're generally going to be restricted to the book medium, but it does help to take some time to think about what medium your idea would work best in.

[Bells]

Both, although having a power evolve would make more sense if it was at least described in a way that makes it more sentient or at least ever-changing.

This actually spans over the entire narrative. It's the physical element that i use to showcase a character that goes from a peacefull strategist, to a frontline warrior, mostly because he starts to see that basically, he needs to be that person he doesn't like to be. The "Verbal" trigger for spells is something that i use in a ... dynamic way, you could say.

As basically, you can create an effect without saying a word or doing any gesture. But when you need to juggle several effects in short time with full power (like in a intense battle situation).. those triggers come in play like "mental shortcuts". So i guess i understand what you're saying... and i can put it under control. But maybe i should tighten the leash a bit more on that element.

One thing that you should keep in mind that is often my downfall is think about the medium you're writing it for. For example, you're writing a book, but, based on what little I know, it gives off the impression that it would work better in manga form, as even though it's fantasy, a lot of the elements would seem less out of place.

Actually, and this is not bragging, it's just that i really like how this thing ended up shaped. If i could draw, i'm sure this could be a kick ass manga. No doubt... but over the years, when i think of the dialog and the descriptions... it all sorta, grew into a more detailed narrative... I'm actually struggling at some points because some dialogs are running too long

[bluestarultor]

See, I really don't see a problem with using keywords for your spells. That's half of what makes things magic in most cases. What you DO need to strive for is consistency, so that any attacks that build from one another build verbally as well.

Take, for instance, someone who uses a sonic attack. Let's call her Maria, and her attack word can be "sonora." If she fires it from one hand, it's just Sonora. If she needs to fire it from both, it might be Sonora Third, after a third musical interval. If she also fires one from her mouth, it might turn into Sonora Major, after the chord using a base, dominant, and descant, in a 1, 3, 5 pattern of notes. It's all Sonora, and the building happens in musical terms to go with the sound. And because Maria is a Spanish name, using "sonora" as her keyword is appropriate.

In short, you want to stick to a base and stick to a theme. Done right, it's a nice way to avoid filling your pages with gibberish.