George Will is an angry old man

[Fifthfiend]

and wants you to get off of his lawn (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041502861.html).

[EVILNess]

Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" -- people who play video games -- are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote.

Wow. I feel incredibly insulted by that entire article. I don't think I have ever read anything, ever, that insulted me so personally.

[CelesJessa]

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6427/erl4677cherryblossomspo.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=erl4677cherryblossomspo.jpg)
Remind me again why I should trust the fashion advice given by this man?

[Funka Genocide]

I've got to say that I agree to some degree.

Not with everything all rolled into one, and not without a few key exceptions, but he's got a point.

Image just isn't what it used to be, everything is to convey sexuality instead of who you really are. Am I really a salt of the earth worky type? Fuck no, I press buttons for a living, and honestly I'd be better represented by slacks and an oxford.

when I'm his age, you can get the fuck off my lawn too.

also, I really don't think it's an article about fashion advice so much as it's an article about a certain degradation in the national character. Maybe he's just clinging to outmoded tradition, but I guess there is something to be said for a certain palpable responsibility you don when you wear the right clothes. Our physical appearance is the most basic and evident expression of not only our personality but of our position in our society. Maybe jeans are the resurgent afterthought of the hippy movement, just a shadow of some form of socialist sentiment. But America has always had winners and losers, and he seems to be railing against the fact that everyone dresses like a loser now.

[Lady Cygnet]

With all that is wrong in the world, he's bemoaning denim and the fact that gamers are allowed to vote? I hate denim, too, but it's more because jeans just aren't designed for women with narrow, high waists and gigantic rears, hips, and lower belly fat. It just doesn't happen. If i have to do yardwork or hardcore cleaning, I go to my trusty, forgiving sweat pants and t-shirt.

(I originally typed "swear pants," and I was oh-so-tempted to leave the typo in place, as I am more inclined to swear when I'm doing something that might result in a personal injury.)

My stepfather is conservative and a brick/stone mason, and he wears denim everywhere, even to church (for his wedding to my mother, though, he did go formal and put on a pair of black jeans :p). He might get permission from the almighty Mr. Will, as he does work in a backbreaking, somewhat dangerous trade, but where I come from, denim actually is worn by people who work very hard and care very much about how they appear in public. (And by where I come from, I mean rural Missouri, not the Chicagoland wasteland or any of the sophisticated metro areas.)

[Funka Genocide]

I wonder if he meant gamers as in people who play games, or gamers as in people who identify themselves as such, referring to it as it's own independent subculture.

there's a big difference between the two, I'd say.

[Donomni]

At first I thought this man was a true crusader against pants.

As a shorts person, I can get behind that.

But then he reveals himself as one of those people who thinks adults aren't allowed to have fun, ever.

Fuck that shit, I'll be my own pantsless wonder.

[01d55]

Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" -- people who play video games -- are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote.

Clearly, only people younger than 18 ought to be allowed to vote. I approve of this statement!
Not sure what gaming has to do with it but I'm just going to assume that he's recommending that we institute some kind of game-related poll test, a policy which I do not endorse - besides, poll tests have been ruled unconstitutional by the SCOTUS.

[Rygar]

I wonder if he meant gamers as in people who play games, or gamers as in people who identify themselves as such, referring to it as it's own independent subculture.

there's a big difference between the two, I'd say.

I'd say he has no idea of any distinctions like that and just thinks video games and the people who play them are childish. He also seems to have fallen into the trap of thinking anything animated is automatically for kids.


Anyway, he doesn't seem to know that quite a few games are only supposed to be played by people over 18. Or that The Dark Knight isn't exactly what you'd call a "juvenile" movie. Or that denim is not the physical manifestation of Satan

[Funka Genocide]

yeah, those would be the points I disagree with him on.

[Azisien]

This man was forced to watch at gunpoint as his family was raped and murdered by a pair of jeans, and then he too was raped.

At least, that is the only explanation I can come up with for the article in question.

[Funka Genocide]

I can't help but feel he's equal parts correct and out of touch.

The basic premise I agree with, he just shows his age with a few choice sentiments.

Video games are just a generational gap made manifest. Much like, I would assume, motion pictures were, or automobiles, or books made on a printing press, or manufactured clothing, indoor plumbing, electricity, pre slivced bread etc.

One of the obvious failings of age is the inability of the old to identify with the accoutrement of the young. However, society as a whole is largely indifferent to our technological panoply, we still go about warring and loving and striving despite the miracles of television and modern medicine. Sadly, we were unable to download the Messiah when the internet went live.

I really can't fault the old codger his grievance to be honest. We do run around looking like a bunch of 5 year olds, in comparison to earlier generations, and we do have a harder time understanding adulthood and it's itinerant hardships, just look at the astonishing number of single parents and failed marriages for proof.

maybe jeans aren't the devil, and it's likely they didn't rape his family, but from a certain perspective, he's dead on.

[synkr0nized]

I wonder if he meant gamers as in people who play games, or gamers as in people who identify themselves as such, referring to it as it's own independent subculture.

there's a big difference between the two, I'd say.

I don't think it matters. He just wants people not to be so careless about their appearance in public and to act like adults, a questionable concern regardless of how overboard he went in writing about it.

[Funka Genocide]

I don't think it matters. He just wants people not to be so careless about their appearance in public and to act like adults, a questionable concern regardless of how overboard he went in writing about it.

That was just a thought I had. You should read my other posts on the matter, I'm pretty much in accord with what you've just stated.

[Fifthfiend]

One of the obvious failings of age is the inability of the old to identify with the accoutrement of the young.

Jeans have been in fashion for like a HUNDRED YEARS.

Everyone 1. wears jeans 2. love jeans 3. understands that everyone else wears and loves jeans because jeans A. look good B. last and C. are a million fucking times more comfortable than any bullshit pair of office slacks.

Everyone except George F. Will because George F. Will is apparently out of his ever-lovin' mind.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I wear jeans because they are cheap and last forever. Not everyone can wear fitted suit pants every day, even when we are not at work.

[Funka Genocide]

I was referring to video games with that sentence, not jeans.

also, It's not like I don't wear a lot of denim, everyone does, I'm just saying that it might be an indicator of something deeper than just fashion.

also, the thing about can't afford other clothes.

Most expensive pair of suit pants ever purchased: 180 dollars
Most expensive pair of jeans ever purchased: 220 dollars

Jeans and normal pants made from not-denim can be purhcased for the same price, you can get some khakis for 20 bucks and they can be quite comfortable. Its not a matte rof economics, but of personal preference.

[Archbio]

Image just isn't what it used to be, everything is to convey sexuality instead of who you really are.

"Who you really are"? I think you mean what class you belong to. And Will has the gall to make it about respect.

Screw that noise.

[Wigmund]

Can't I be an adult and also not care much about my appearance?

Clothes are for comfort, I don't wear them to be some kind of social status peacock.

[phil_]

Personally, I dress like a child because I'm wearing the same clothes that I wore as a child. The shirt I'm wearing? Vintage late middle school. It's the only perk of not growing significantly in a decade. I have neither the budget nor inclination to replace ten years worth of jeans and shirts, so I wear jeans and t-shirts.

[Fifthfiend]

Can't I be an adult and also not care much about my appearance?

Clothes are for comfort, I don't wear them to be some kind of social status peacock.

George Will keeps himself awake at night, stirred up with hatred for people like you.

"God dammit they just go around in their JEANS! Being COMFORTABLE! And ENJOYING THEIR LIVES! And fucking OH GOD ARGH IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY I CANNOT SEE STRAIGHT HOLY SHIT SOMEBODY GET ME A BOW TIE!!!!!!"

[Funka Genocide]

ah, so it's a matter of not wanting to associate with your class.

I can see the desire to deny social class, I have wrestled with the concept myself. But denying there is such a thing as social class, and refusing to accept your role in it (and thusly, to improve your standing) seems to me like refusing to believe the 300 pound man in the wife beater can kill you with his hands.

it exists, you are subject to it, and if you were more aware of it you might live a better life.

but yes, the article is obviously over the top and filled with hyperbole, not arguing that.

and really, what difference does it make in the end. We're all free to dress in whatever we can afford. and none of us really take any responsibility for the state of our national well being. We're all free spirited individuals who dance to the beat of our own drums, while wearing mass produced denim products.

[synkr0nized]

That was just a thought I had. You should read my other posts on the matter, I'm pretty much in accord with what you've just stated.

I had initiated my post before you made the post above mine. I hadn't seen it.


I was going to post more on this topic, but really I don't have the want anymore. His article is too melodramatic to agree with, regardless his actual point, and I find it difficult to disagree with my own opinion that people should wear what they like, aside from when situations call for or require otherwise (i.e. if you want to rock the denim, have a blast; yet don't wear it to a family member's wedding...).

I think what's bothered me more has been some of the comments to the article I have found. Some folks are outraged at the author not for holding on to an outdated idea of the nation's personal image but for ignoring the butchering of our Constitution and national government currently occurring. Hooray! I really should've checked the site out before just browsing their comments section. Ha ha, conservatives are melodramatic.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I was referring to video games with that sentence, not jeans.

also, It's not like I don't wear a lot of denim, everyone does, I'm just saying that it might be an indicator of something deeper than just fashion.

also, the thing about can't afford other clothes.

Most expensive pair of suit pants ever purchased: 180 dollars
Most expensive pair of jeans ever purchased: 220 dollars

Jeans and normal pants made from not-denim can be purhcased for the same price, you can get some khakis for 20 bucks and they can be quite comfortable. Its not a matte rof economics, but of personal preference.

He clearly wants us to wear proper suit pants like Fred Astaire wears. Those cost a lot and you need them fitted to look good to make it look better.
He wouldn't want you wearing khaki unless you are in the army.
I mean sure you can buy expensive jeans but you can also buy ridiculously cheap jeans, not so for proper pants.

Also jeans are FAR cheaper in the long run, as they last longer, don't need to by dry cleaned, take less ironing and washing.
I mean really, jeans are by far the cheapest overall set of pants around.

[Funka Genocide]

You have a great big bushy beard and therefore all your points are IRRELEVANT!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Clearly that entitles me to wear jeans.

[Funka Genocide]

damn!

I'll get you for this McBarrelpants! You and your disdainfully fashionable denim leg-coverings!

[Fifthfiend]

I will allow that he has a point on the single issue of acid-washed jeans.

What the fuck you're paying money to have your jeans worn out for you. That's just fucking dumb.

[Funka Genocide]

come on dude, when are you ever going to have the time to wash them in acid yourself?

[pochercoaster]

Anyone who thinks wealthy people don't walk around in jeans and t shirts and drive modest vehicles needs a reality check. (Re: Wealthy people tend not to flaunt their wealth in public, except for pampered Hollywood celebrities and those who come across wealth accidentally.) Who gives a shit? And who has hundreds of dollars to burn on pants that probably cost $2 to manufacture?

Denim is starting to be used in dressy outfits, if anyone pays attention to haute couture. Then again haute couture is pretty ridiculous. I'm not sure denim looks good as anything other than a pair of pants, but if jeans start to become acceptable office attire I say bring it on.

Why don't we bring back corsets and petticoats? Don't get me started on high heels! (I sincerely hope ballerina flats stay in style for a long time because despite what anyone says there is no such thing as a comfortable high heel and I don't want destroying my feet to be a requirement for working in an office.)

Edit: Also note that I don't disagree with the point that we all construct an image that we present to the public. Just I don't see the necessity in everyone choosing to present themselves as wealthy office monkeys (no offense to any office monkeys here :P) when they're out grocery shopping.

[The Argent Lord]

Anyway, he doesn't seem to know that quite a few games are only supposed to be played by people over 18. Or that The Dark Knight isn't exactly what you'd call a "juvenile" movie. Or that denim is not the physical manifestation of Satan
This man was forced to watch at gunpoint as his family was raped and murdered by a pair of jeans, and then he too was raped.

At least, that is the only explanation I can come up with for the article in question.
George Will keeps himself awake at night, stirred up with hatred for people like you.

"God dammit they just go around in their JEANS! Being COMFORTABLE! And ENJOYING THEIR LIVES! And fucking OH GOD ARGH IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY I CANNOT SEE STRAIGHT HOLY SHIT SOMEBODY GET ME A BOW TIE!!!!!!"
This thread is a goldmine of hilarious hyperbole.

[POS Industries]

It's funny, because I've noted on multiple occasions that George Will was a fine example of one of the "sane ones" among the throngs of conservative pundits, but I suppose after so many decades of having to rub elbows with the rest of his ilk finally drove him over the edge.

When you live with apes, man, it's hard to be clean.

[Archbio]

ah, so it's a matter of not wanting to associate with your class.

I can see the desire to deny social class, I have wrestled with the concept myself. But denying there is such a thing as social class, and refusing to accept your role in it (and thusly, to improve your standing) seems to me like refusing to believe the 300 pound man in the wife beater can kill you with his hands.


What I'm getting out of this is that you wrestle with 300 pound men?

Joking aside, you've got things in general, and my comment in particular, the wrong way around. I don't know why there'd be a trend for "undifferentiated" clothing with a world draped in denim wall to wall as the ultimate result. Frankly, I don't care. I don't dress in denim. However, what I also don't do is conform to some vague, old timey notion of the way I should dress. I don't desire to be able to do it. I do it. George Will is the one who's desiring something here, and he's misrepresenting that something, for all the good that'll do.

Clothing isn't "undifferentiated", it's just not differentiated the way George Will would like it; with a mind to emphasize rigid separations between classes of all kinds.

I like to wear freaking pants, so George Will can shove it.

[Seil]

So.... was this guy at an anime/game/cosplay convention recently?

"God dammit they just go around in their JEANS! Being COMFORTABLE! And ENJOYING THEIR LIVES! And fucking OH GOD ARGH IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY I CANNOT SEE STRAIGHT HOLY SHIT SOMEBODY GET ME A BOW TIE!!!!!!"

I was kinda looking at this wondering if Fifth meant Mr. Will and the bowtie like Mr. Bloom and his blanket from The Producers.

Also jeans are FAR cheaper in the long run, as they last longer, don't need to by dry cleaned, take less ironing and washing.
I mean really, jeans are by far the cheapest overall set of pants around.

What we should take away from this is the BHS irons his jeans.

ah, so it's a matter of not wanting to associate with your class.

You know, maybe he's trying to get us kids to rebel! To spark a movement! Every decade has their sort of stereotypical fashion, maybe George Will is trying to get everyone - from 0 and up - to wear suits! That'll be the new wave!

http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/ch/1992/ch920311.gif


Denim is starting to be used in dressy outfits, if anyone pays attention to haute couture. Then again haute couture is pretty ridiculous. I'm not sure denim looks good as anything other than a pair of pants, but if jeans start to become acceptable office attire I say bring it on.

http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/1996-macaddict-mac-vs-pc-tm.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zxsbVMrOUNw/SY8H_dGD5RI/AAAAAAAABs4/BrsND1MmrBk/s400/justin-timberlake-WI-0608-lg-18970743.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v135/198/70/5001050/n5001050_34894816_9165.jpg

The Canadian Tuxedo, it's called.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

What we should take away from this is the BHS irons his jeans.



Dude, I'm an academic! You wouldn't believe the fancy pants frippery that I get up to!

[Seil]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.styledash.com/media/2008/03/shirt-needs-pants.jpg

[pochercoaster]

The Canadian Tuxedo, it's called.

I'm familiar with the term. Personally, I think denim jackets are atrocious. XD I just mean that if one day it's acceptable to wear a nice pair of jeans and a shirt to work, I won't mind.

[Mirai Gen]

Good lord - is this guy even aware of why jeans were made in the first place?

I swear if he wasn't a (ahem) 'respected' person of sorts he'd be the kind standing on a streetcorner holding up some sort of sign rallying against one bit of change or another.

image image image
Dude I liked it better when you were too scared to post images.

[Marc v4.0]

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v135/198/70/5001050/n5001050_34894816_9165.jpg

I honestly think this picture might be improved if there was no denim there...

[Seil]

If we turn this thread into what a douche I am, then it'll be derailed and never turn back to where it's supposed to go. (And I was never "scared," people were just like "Stop postin' images," and I was like "Kay." But given the context of this thread and the ribbing going on, I thought that I might be able to have some fun and post a few pics.)

[Mirai Gen]

I have no problem with a picture to emphasize a point or respond but I thought just one would have been fine.

Like the third one didn't even seem tangentially related except I think that if George Will saw that he would have a conniption.

Just like, member to member.

[Azisien]

That's it Mirai you're banned from General for...Hey, I don't have any special buttons. :(

[Premmy]

He seems to be obsessed with social roles and societal levels, what If I want to say "I'm a close designer, I make my own shit" with my clothes? what then?

[BitVyper]

Denim being more accepted in polite society is a damn good thing. I've had friggin labour jobs where it wasn't allowed. Non-denim pants last about two months for me just going through my daily activities, so that kind of bullshit gets expensive fast.

Denim just plain kicks ass, and it looks pretty good too (not when overdone though, like in certain pictures). If it's a class indicator, it's not a very good one since, as this guy's article says, just about everyone wears it.

Why in Christ's name would I want more expensive, flimsy pants for everyday use when I can have cheap durable ones? It's like gold sword vs steel sword. Which I guess means you should use your denim jeans to kill businessmen and then sell their pants at the local item shop.

[CelesJessa]

A serious note I wanted to make earlier, but I've been in freaking class since the last time that I posted, the biggest problem with the whole "people dress like slobs unlike people of the past" deal is that clothing and fashion has, throughout the history of time I believe, faced this problem of the next generation not dressing how a previous generation believes is acceptable and "nice". The same kind of thing probably happened when the Ancient Greeks stopped wearing chitons, when petticoats went out of style, and when women stopped wearing dresses all of the time, etc etc etc. It's just the history of clothes in action.

Now, I agree that people shouldn't dress like slobs, but I don't immediately see "jeans" as slobbish, as long as the setting is acceptable. I wear jeans to class because I am an art student and it's likely that I will get paint on my clothes, so I see no problem in that. Jeans at a wedding? Unacceptable. But, you know, in 50 years, maybe they will be, and it will just be the changing times.

That's just my 2 cents.

[Fifthfiend]

If it's fifty years from now and I'm spending my time bitching about all these kids today with their fancy-shmancy Hyperpants and why can't they just wear a decent pair of jeans the way God intended I hope someone has the decency to haul me down to a EuthanasiaMart (formerly 7-11).

[bluestarultor]

When I was in pharmacy school, jeans were literally unacceptable attire for classes and even labs. I had several pairs of jeans lying around that were nice jeans, but I couldn't wear them except on weekends. If I did, it was points off my grade in each class up to and including automatic failure. It was total bullshit, because I had only two pairs of khakis along to wear and one of them got a hole burned in it during chemistry lab by some stupidly strong hydrochloric acid, and they weren't cheap khakis. I have yet to get rid of them, but I also have yet to go out and find more that aren't cargo pants.

Moral of the story: because they didn't let me wear jeans while working with highly poisonous and corrosive chemicals, I only have one pair of good pants to my name. :(

[01d55]

It's just the history of clothes in action.

Which is exactly like the history of music (rap, metal, rock 'n roll, jazz, swing) and the history of new media (internet, video games, tv, movies, radio, ect. ect.) and yet every goddamn generation has to put up with the same goddamn bullshit nattering from angry old men who are totally sure that no, you guys, Jazz was fine but Rock 'n Roll is totally the devil's instrument.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

When I was in pharmacy school, jeans were literally unacceptable attire for classes and even labs. I had several pairs of jeans lying around that were nice jeans, but I couldn't wear them except on weekends. If I did, it was points off my grade in each class up to and including automatic failure. It was total bullshit, because I had only two pairs of khakis along to wear and one of them got a hole burned in it during chemistry lab by some stupidly strong hydrochloric acid, and they weren't cheap khakis. I have yet to get rid of them, but I also have yet to go out and find more that aren't cargo pants.

Moral of the story: because they didn't let me wear jeans while working with highly poisonous and corrosive chemicals, I only have one pair of good pants to my name. :(

Like 95% of the people in our labs are wearing jeans at any one time. Why didn't they let you wear jeans?

[Satan's Onion]

This is not complicated. For men, sartorial good taste can be reduced to one rule: If Fred Astaire would not have worn it, don't wear it. For women, substitute Grace Kelly.

So, corset and high heels then? Ladies, take note: According to George F. Will, a woman is not attired tastefully until both her ankles are sprained and she can't breathe.

[Nikose Tyris]

So, corset and high heels then? Ladies, take note: According to George F. Will, a woman is not attired tastefully until both her ankles are sprained and she can't breathe.

[Edit: on second thought, that's just too far, removing this incredibly bad joke. Sorry for all who witnessed it.]

Kotaku's gone and started ripping into this guy too. I like some of the arguements IN HIS FAVOR I've been seeing. :P someone's been arguing taxation without representation for gamers who buy video games that don't vote.

[bluestarultor]

Like 95% of the people in our labs are wearing jeans at any one time. Why didn't they let you wear jeans?

Jeans "weren't professional." Basically, it boiled down to they were forcing absolute and immediate boring, formal adulthood on every fresh-faced 18-year-old to walk through the door so far as they could without actually giving anyone any ideas that they were in any way special or important (which was itself a shock because every last student they accept there is the cream of the crop). We didn't even have lab coats because those had to be "earned" by sticking around until the fourth year of the program and were bestowed in a pomp-and-circumstance ceremony. The expectation was that you'd spend three years wearing your best clothes from high school whilst working with hazardous chemicals and chopping up dead animals in your labs.

It was in many ways a cold, depressing place.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Jeans "weren't professional." Basically, it boiled down to they were forcing absolute and immediate boring, formal adulthood on every fresh-faced 18-year-old to walk through the door so far as they could without actually giving anyone any ideas that they were in any way special or important (which was itself a shock because every last student they accept there is the cream of the crop). We didn't even have lab coats because those had to be "earned" by sticking around until the fourth year of the program and were bestowed in a pomp-and-circumstance ceremony. The expectation was that you'd spend three years wearing your best clothes from high school whilst working with hazardous chemicals and chopping up dead animals in your labs.

It was in many ways a cold, depressing place.

I work in a "professional" lab... the clothing here is much worse than average society.
But no labcoat until 4th year..... Surely that's a ridiculous health and safety hazard. I mean that's a really serious problem.
Overhere you could get labs shut down for that.

[bluestarultor]

I work in a "professional" lab... the clothing here is much worse than average society.
But no labcoat until 4th year..... Surely that's a ridiculous health and safety hazard. I mean that's a really serious problem.
Overhere you could get labs shut down for that.

Messy operations got us gloves (only for dissecting) and smocks, and we had our own goggles, but the smocks weren't very long, so the only thing they really protected were your shirt and maybe your belt if you were short. Which is why I got a hole burned in my pants.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You should really do something about. It's quite negligent.

[bluestarultor]

I haven't been a student there for quite some time, and honestly, at US$25,000+ per student per year, I think they have enough money to win any court case I might bring up. They're quite a highly-regarded school, too, so all in all, it's not worth the trouble when I'm happily elsewhere with a much better work environment.

[Azisien]

No I'm pretty sure no matter how high your tuition is, if you're not following basic lab safety protocols, you will be ordered to follow them once caught being negligent. We aren't even allowed into lab rooms, operating or not, without lab coats. The not wearing them when they're not operating is unofficially allowed because whatever, but its pretty strict here.

[Funka Genocide]

I'm pretty sure smocks suffice for legality's sake.

also, this thread got fuck-awful boring after someone mentioned lab coats. I'm not going to name names, but...

how did a thread about pants become a thread about coats?

the two are diametrically opposed!

[Mirai Gen]

Holy shit was that Nikose showing some good taste?

Between this and Noncon explaining jokes I don't know how much more I can handle!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I haven't been a student there for quite some time, and honestly, at US$25,000+ per student per year, I think they have enough money to win any court case I might bring up. They're quite a highly-regarded school, too, so all in all, it's not worth the trouble when I'm happily elsewhere with a much better work environment.
It's basic lab protocol, it hard to weasel out of. I'm assuming US has some sort of Health and Safety dept, they would be all over this.

I'm pretty sure smocks suffice for legality's sake.

also, this thread got fuck-awful boring after someone mentioned lab coats. I'm not going to name names, but...

how did a thread about pants become a thread about coats?

the two are diametrically opposed!

You are just lucky I didn't use it as a vessel for my side in the eternal debate of: Barrels vs Pants

[Nique]

Wearing Jeans seems like more of a symptom of some percieved problem. Why does he talk about it like jeans themselves are the cause?

And man, if he's right, my mother was a horrible person for letting me wear an all-denim outfit to school; Jeans, Denim-Shoes, and a Jean-Jacket. Also a hat.

Huh. Sounds a lot less cool than it seemed at the time.

EDIT: Oh my gawd is anyone else seeing this Ann Coulter thing in the googleads? HAWT.

[Seil]

You are just lucky I didn't use it as a vessel for my side in the eternal debate of: Barrels vs Pants

Seems awful splintery.

[PyrosNine]

I usually don't wear jeans myself. Plain khaki, cotton and whatever the hell flight-pants are made of. (Jeans just never have the right pocket size for gameboys, cellphones, keys, mp3 players, wallet, notepad, pencil, loose change, pocket knife, candy, paperclips, random things found on the ground, rubber band, thumbdrive, extra gameboy games, headphones, and whatever extra stuff I might carry on an unusual day.)

Also, pajama pants that have fire patterns upon them, because they are comfortable.

The ways I see it, Denim is cheap, and we're all becoming incredibly poor. So, it goes to reason we're going to see a lot of them.

[Seil]

random things found on the ground,

....

[Magus]

I'm quite relieved I come from about five generations of poor white trash and was raised in a rural area so I have an excuse to wear jeans because man, those dress clothes are highly uncomfortable. Anybody who wears those things outside of their job and/or formal occasions is either really fussy about their appearance or masochistic, especially anyone who wears a tie at any moment they don't have to.

What I don't understand is my dad is almost 60 and the man has worn jeans (or something equally casual) every day of the week except Sunday services for most of his life, though I do have to admit that when he goes out in public he wears a short-sleeved dress shirt over the t-shirt (still wearing the jeans though). I myself have taken to wearing a flannel shirt over t-shirts, but since they're all plaid I'm probably not making the kind of impression George Will is talking about. Still wearing jeans as well.

I think George Will may cut himself some slack sometimes and put on a sweater-vest over his dress-shirt and tie when he's just, you know, in the mood for some fun.

By the way, I don't mind dressing like my proletariat brothers and sisters, in preparation for the coming revolution. That way we know who to target for re-education. George Will will be come to regret his decision to identify himself with the bourgeoisie.

[Seil]

anyone who wears a tie at any moment they don't have to.

I agree with you on this, but I wear stuff like dress pants and suspenders and dress shoes outside of formal occasions, so...

Also: HEY GEORGE WILL! GUESS WHAT SEIL BOUGHT TODAY! JEANS! LOVE YOU TOO!

[Nique]

The more I think about this guy the angrier it makes me that he puts himself in this position of judgment over a generation.

How bigoted to say even jokingly that 'gamers shouldnt be allowed to vote'? I mean what about movie critics, art collectors, or hobbyists of any kind? Becuase games arent art? becuase they don't cost a ridiculous amount and thus don't signify status? The man could put 'Jews' or 'Black people' in there and I'd be just about as offended (ok maybe a little moreso, but still).

How can you stand there and try delegitimize a group of people - that is, apparently, anyone who wears jeans and enjoys fun, with such obvious falacious statments?

Who wants to pitch in for a pair of Holister jeans and mail em' to George?

[BitVyper]

anyone who wears a tie at any moment they don't have to.

Honestly, I can't understand how wearing a noose came into fashion in the first place. Maybe it's training businessmen for when the stock market crashes.