On the Table Top with the Dice.

[Magic_Marker]

I've noticed many members of this forum are quite interested in Tabletop gaming, so I thought I'd start a thread about it. What are you favorite systems? Are you a D&D man, or are you too cool for that?

What about table top RPGs attracts you? Is it the screwing around with friends, or is it exploring a story?

As for me, my favorite system by far is the Mutants and Masterminds system by Green Ronin. It's a point by affair that uses the d20 rules but gets rid of what I think are the worst points of it (Classes, Hit Points etc)

I usually GM but enjoy playing more, it's just fun to screw up other peoples game and show them how much I stress.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

3.5 4eva! Mostly play DnD with a lot of our own houserules. Tried some other systmes, never really got into it.
We play the Star Wars D20 a lot to. It works quite well.

Also we built a few of our own systems which are cool.

[bluestarultor]

Used to do a lot of BESM, 2nd Edition when I still was into it. Nice system with flexible rules that the book encourages you to bend or break if it helps game flow. Also had a good GM who was willing to bend and break them to do so. After he got fed up at a local con (rightfully so) and stopped doing it, it just sorta fell apart and I wasn't able to drum up the interest he'd been able to (although I was complimented as being creative, I just didn't have the charisma). So I haven't played in literally years and mostly lost interest in favor of other endeavors.

[Mirai Gen]

Savage Worlds is a godsend for impatient DMs like me who don't want to sit and do math for hours to build encounters. Plus it's super flexible with any system tampering; house rules and custom builds for everything from superheroes to horror campaigns. Its a godsend.

Also I'm still not sure if I like 4th or absolutely hate it, so I'll have to get back to you on that.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Savage Worlds is a godsend for impatient DMs like me who don't want to sit and do math for hours to build encounters.

Just make up the math as you go along. It's worked pretty well for me so far.

[PhoenixFlame]

I'm quite fond of tabletop RPGs merely because it's possible to deal with themes and adventures that simply can't be done with scripting.

That said, I'm a big fan of Exalted, Secrets of Zir'An, Legend of the Five Rings, and BESM 3e (provided the GM and players are willing to be sane.).

[Raiden]

I love Exalted, and I've done some playing around in nWoD Mage, Final Fantasy RPG, and Blue Rose d20 or whatever it's called.

I almost tried playing DnD once, until I made a Goliath that was almost incapable of jumping. I think that was the game's way of saying that I shouldn't even try.

[Eltargrim]

3.555555555555555555555555~

On top of that, Spelljamma~

Come September I'll be running a campaign; the reason for this is because come May, I'll be a couple hundred kilometres away from my players :(

[Funka Genocide]

I would be a big fan of table top rpgs if:

A. I had friends who also enjoyed them

and

B. If those friends knew how soap worked.

alas, such a state of being is likely unachievable.

also

Note to everyone posting here: Showers will not lower your THAC0

[Eltargrim]

My group not only knows the values of showering, but they are also primarily female.

Do I know how to find the impossible group or what?

[Funka Genocide]

not really, most of the good rpers I know are female.

must be some sort of sociological phenomenon that promotes imagination for females more than males.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I would be a big fan of table top rpgs if:

A. I had friends who also enjoyed them

and

B. If those friends knew how soap worked.

alas, such a state of being is likely unachievable.

also

Note to everyone posting here: Showers will not lower your THAC0

Where did this come from?
I've meet a lot of RPGers none of whom had any hygiene or social problems.

[Eltargrim]

Or maybe chicks can manage to balance social skills with love for a game?

Bells, trust me, it's not just a stereotype. The unwashed gamer exists, and their stench can clog the nose for hours. And this does not mention the oil sands that is their hair :S

[Azisien]

D20 Modern is my favourite system.

I am also fond of 3rd edition D&D. I haven't even had a chance to try 4th edition, because it scares me. The amount of useless spells in 3rd edition that I am told were cut is too bad because my fondest moments of 3rd edition are the zany things we find to do with useless utility spells out of combat.

[PhoenixFlame]

Note to everyone posting here: Showers will not lower your THAC0

I guess I'm doing something right if I have no idea what a THAC0 is, and am currently drying my hair. (Though the thread appears to accuse me of cheating for being female.)

Seriously, I've never heard that before, and I've played like 20+ systems.

[Funka Genocide]

Where did this come from?
I've meet a lot of RPGers none of whom had any hygiene or social problems.


I make reference to my prior assertion of beardedness=wrong. However I shall endeavor to explain myself further, for the benefit of what lies beneath said beard.

but seriously, I know there are normal-ish rpg fans out there, myself being one of them, but I do not know where they exist, it's probably in expensive collegiate environs of some sort. But I'd say that about 60% of the time I go into a communal area where nerds are known to frequent, a good 30% of them smell like old ass/hat. I don't know how you combine those percentages into an intelligible statistic, but I do know that the sheer volume of socially inept nerds in circulation is a real downer.

mainly it was just a tongue in cheek jibe at the stereotype that all too often proves true.

also, on the off chance that there was a stinky pete in the audience, maybe I'd give them what the 12 steppers call, "A moment of clarity"

[The Argent Lord]

I play D&D 3.5, and I'm interested in, but have yet to run, other systems. The plan currently is to run a truly epic D&D campaign, then convince them that some other system will be awesome and I will run an awesome game with it.

[Eltargrim]

I guess I'm doing something right if I have no idea what a THAC0 is, and am currently drying my hair. (Though the thread appears to accuse me of cheating for being female.)

Seriously, I've never heard that before, and I've played like 20+ systems.

THAC0 is old, from D&D 2(?), where 0 was a good number to have for AC, and higher numbers were worse.

Basically used subtraction instead of addition. And then 3.0 came along and logical conventions were enforced :D

[PhoenixFlame]

Oh. It's that game.

We don't speak of the game that shall not be named where I come from. :p

[Tev]

I've really taken to 4th Ed D&D quite well. It just seems a better fit to my 2nd Ed mindset than 3.whatever ever was. 3.* seemed to be more about statistics and less about the character and that was a turnoff for me.

Other than that, I've had some fun times with the older White Wolf d10 system, the old "crock 'O dice" d6 Starwars system, as well as Deadlands and Big Eyes Small Mouth (original tri-stat and new red book versions).

There were other games I've dabbled in over the last decade or so, but right now I'm having a great time with my friends in an "Age of Conan" style 4th Ed D&D game.

[Raiden]

Oh, and played around some with Cthulthutech. Because there's nothing better than piloting a living mecha to beat up an Old One.

[Tev]

I'm in a regular Call of Cthulthu game now......tonight in fact. We're doing okay as a group. Only half of us are teetering on the edge of insanity.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I make reference to my prior assertion of beardedness=wrong. However I shall endeavor to explain myself further, for the benefit of what lies beneath said beard.

but seriously, I know there are normal-ish rpg fans out there, myself being one of them, but I do not know where they exist, it's probably in expensive collegiate environs of some sort. But I'd say that about 60% of the time I go into a communal area where nerds are known to frequent, a good 30% of them smell like old ass/hat. I don't know how you combine those percentages into an intelligible statistic, but I do know that the sheer volume of socially inept nerds in circulation is a real downer.

mainly it was just a tongue in cheek jibe at the stereotype that all too often proves true.

also, on the off chance that there was a stinky pete in the audience, maybe I'd give them what the 12 steppers call, "A moment of clarity"

Well I do live kind of upmarket so I guess my opinion is bias.

THAC0 is old, from D&D 2(?), where 0 was a good number to have for AC, and higher numbers were worse.

Basically used subtraction instead of addition. And then 3.0 came along and logical conventions were enforced :D
Pssh unless you were negative you were crap.
One of the milder confusing bits of second ed was the sometimes high numbers are good, sometimes they are bad.
This reminds me of good times playing second ed. It was far far more chaotic than 3rd ed and some fun times were had. Everyone had lots of houserules though so it made it hard to go from one group to the other.

For good times with your 4th group break out some 2nd or even 1st ed and watch thier heads explode.

[Raiden]

I'm in a regular Call of Cthulthu game now......tonight in fact. We're doing okay as a group. Only half of us are teetering on the edge of insanity.

Then they're perfect candidates for the Eldritch Society's Tager project. Unless they're TOO crazy, at which point they'd probably be eaten alive.

[Tev]

For good times with your 4th group break out some 2nd or even 1st ed and watch thier heads explode.That only holds if your players never played 2nd ed before.....and 3rd Ed players handle THAC0 and other 2nd Ed rules just as poorly.

Granted 2nd Ed wasn't an "easy" system what with stat rolls being low, saves being high, THAC0 being a complex math calculation, and skills being....somewhat non-existent; but over all it wasn't some mind blowingly hard game. I was twelve when I had it all figured out. I mean, as an adult with a college education I still can't build a character or play in a Champions game. That system requires a damn graphing calculator.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

That only holds if your players never played 2nd ed before.....and 3rd Ed players handle THAC0 and other 2nd Ed rules just as poorly.

Granted 2nd Ed wasn't an "easy" system what with stat rolls being low, saves being high, THAC0 being a complex math calculation, and skills being....somewhat non-existent; but over all it wasn't some mind blowingly hard game. I was twelve when I had it all figured out. I mean, as an adult with a college education I still can't build a character or play in a Champions game. That system requires a damn graphing calculator.

Those were generally the easy parts of the system.
Grappling was an absolute nightmare and most of the other combat rules were obscure and unintuitive. I remember when 4th ed came out one of things people were saying was good was the end to the "nightmarish" 3rd ed grapple rules. I had a good laugh at that one.
It was nowhere near the hardest game out there but it was still an absolute nightmare to get the rules straight, simply b ecause there was so many and they all worked bizarrely. Especially when compared to 3rd ed.

[Magic_Marker]

That only holds if your players never played 2nd ed before.....and 3rd Ed players handle THAC0 and other 2nd Ed rules just as poorly.

Granted 2nd Ed wasn't an "easy" system what with stat rolls being low, saves being high, THAC0 being a complex math calculation, and skills being....somewhat non-existent; but over all it wasn't some mind blowingly hard game. I was twelve when I had it all figured out. I mean, as an adult with a college education I still can't build a character or play in a Champions game. That system requires a damn graphing calculator.

Ah, HERO system, I've always been told that it is a very good system and seen some people swear by it but the core book is so damned long!

My only exprience with 2nd Ed was the Baldur's Gate series by Bioware, and from that it didn't seem like it was too bad, a little confusing but I think if I locked myself with the rulebook for a while I could figure it out.

I tried to get into BESM but my FLGS didn't have it and it's so much harding learning a system on a .pdf.

I've played Star Wars Saga, damn fine system, simulates the Star Wars feel really well, but I'm not sure that's what some of you guys are talking about. I've heard the older d20 Star Wars system was a mess but that d6 WEG Star Wars was really good until you got to high levels are had an un-godly amount of dice to count.

I'm in a regular Call of Cthulthu game now......tonight in fact. We're doing okay as a group. Only half of us are teetering on the edge of insanity.

I played a session of Cthulthu using the World of Darkness system. It was nice, GM scared the shit out of me though.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

My only exprience with 2nd Ed was the Baldur's Gate series by Bioware, and from that it didn't seem like it was too bad, a little confusing but I think if I locked myself with the rulebook for a while I could figure it out.


The problem being that the rulebooks contradicated themselves and weren't clear in critical points and expansions were all over the place.
General combat and roleplaying encounters you would be fine. But if you wanted to try anything crazy...uh oh!

[Tev]

...but that d6 WEG Star Wars was really good until you got to high levels are had an un-godly amount of dice to count.
Or were a Jedi. Hence the term "Crock 'O Dice" d6 system. There's nothing quite as ridiculous as scooping up about 40 d6 in a cup, shaking, then spilling it out all over the table while screaming "Yhattze!"

[Magic_Marker]

Or were a Jedi. Hence the term "Crock 'O Dice" d6 system. There's nothing quite as ridiculous as scooping up about 40 d6 in a cup, shaking, then spilling it out all over the table while screaming "Yhattze!"

Wow. Remind me to stick to Saga edition. 40d6? Really, did you add them or or was there a Storyteller System like approach where certain dice were only counted if they were a certain number?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I remember a WH40K battle we had once where one guy ended up with 150 attacks in one combat, all the same type of attacks to so we had to roll them all at once. That was super.

[Magic_Marker]

I remember a WH40K battle we had once where one guy ended up with 150 attacks in one combat, all the same type of attacks to so we had to roll them all at once. That was super.

I can imagine that being awesome at first but getting old, real, real quick.

I would love to get into 40k but it looks so expensive, last time I priced it a RULEBOOK was $100.00, the God Damn RULEBOOK!

:mad:

[Funka Genocide]

wargames are only for the affluent good sir.

don't try and get into it with less than 500 dollars available or you'll just be disappointed.

disappointed by all that money you didn't spend on plastic toys.

but seriously, the boxed starter games are a good place to uh... start. 60 bucks gets you 2 small armies and all the rules you need, along with absolutely useless range rulers and enough dice to choke on when you realize how many dice you will actually need to play a game.

also, rolling 100+ dice NEVER gets old.

ever.

[Tev]

Wow. Remind me to stick to Saga edition. 40d6? Really, did you add them or or was there a Storyteller System like approach where certain dice were only counted if they were a certain number?Eh, that was a slight exaggeration. It was more like 20-25 dice. But yeah, being able to effectively double and already ridiculously high dice pool by spending a force point as a Jedi in that system was just crazy. That's why I stuck to Smugglers and Rebel Spies.

[Magic_Marker]

wargames are only for the affluent good sir.

don't try and get into it with less than 500 dollars available or you'll just be disappointed.

disappointed by all that money you didn't spend on plastic toys.

but seriously, the boxed starter games are a good place to uh... start. 60 bucks gets you 2 small armies and all the rules you need, along with absolutely useless range rulers and enough dice to choke on when you realize how many dice you will actually need to play a game.

also, rolling 100+ dice NEVER gets old.

ever.


I remember being a wee small child making a wargame in my head, not even knowing they existed. I have fond memories of stating up my dinosaur toys and pitting them against the Batmen, Luke Skywalker and Goku. Godammit I've always been a nerd haven't I?


Note to self, do the above next session of Mutants and Masterminds.

[Funka Genocide]

I loved the old d6 based star wars system, you could create any character concept your heart desired and the source books were some of the bestest evars.

I was sad to see it replaced by d20, so sad that I've never played d20 star wars despite buying the original rule book when it was first released.

[Tev]

I loved the old d6 based star wars system, you could create any character concept your heart desired and the source books were some of the bestest evars.

I was sad to see it replaced by d20, so sad that I've never played d20 star wars despite buying the original rule book when it was first released.I gave d20 a shot even though I hated what it did to D&D. I found the system did not mesh well with Star Wars either and went back to d6.

[Magic_Marker]

I honestly didn't like it much [d20 Star Wars], Saga has been a great improvment, still has classes and all that jazz but it has enough customization and flows by quick enough that I don't mind.

That is, until I can simulate the setting with Mutants and Masterminds, or True20 for that matter. [EDIT] Something about only useing needing one d20 but I've always loved those two systems since they came out.

[EDIT]


I gave d20 a shot even though I hated what it did to D&D. I found the system did not mesh well with Star Wars either and went back to d6.


I never got why people didn't like 3.5, I mean yeah, it is a little clunky but to me 2ed isn't DnD 3.5 is. Ah well, must be some age thing as I'm only 19 and again, have no exprience with 2ed outside of Baldur's Gate.

[Funka Genocide]

I find preconstructed classes to the extent that they are used in modern Dungeons and Dragons and various D20 systems to be stifling and counterproductive for the most part.

I think White Wolf is just open ended enough to develop actual characterization, but the old Star Wars d6 system was even better, in my opinion.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I remember being a wee small child making a wargame in my head, not even knowing they existed. I have fond memories of stating up my dinosaur toys and pitting them against the Batmen, Luke Skywalker and Goku. Godammit I've always been a nerd haven't I?

This reminds me of played Warhammer 5th Ed (I think that was number- it was the one with the magic cards) and before we had the magic expansion we made up our own rules for magic. Then 6th ed (with dice rolling for magic) came out and the magic system was pretty much EXACTLY what we had been using with only a few changes- such as differences in spells.


As for d20 star wars I really really enjoy it. It is nicely streamlined but also loose enough to go nuts.
My jedi who was a complete pacifist but relied entirely on scaring the shits out of people with creative force use was totally totally awesome. And a crack surgeon!

[Tev]

I never got why people didn't like 3.5, I mean yeah, it is a little clunky but to me 2ed isn't DnD 3.5 is. Ah well, must be some age thing as I'm only 19 and again, have no exprience with 2ed outside of Baldur's Gate.It's not quite an age thing as it is a mindset thing. I know quite a few people who are older than me who cling to their 3.5 books like they are the lost Dead Sea Scrolls. I just feel 3.X made a lot of changes that I wasn't comfortable with as a player. Sure the "logic'd up" the game a bit, but at the cost of increasing the complexity. I find that it is about a hundred times easier to explain how a 4th Ed game works to a curious onlooker (my girlfriend) that it ever would be to explain the d20 system. Mostly it's because of the tie-in with miniatures again which just harkens back to the days of the first iteration of D&D. Some people don't like that their table top game is now more MMO-like or boardgame-ish, but I do.

While I do prefer more open ended character creation, I must compliment the writers at Wizards for coming up with such a nice variety of classes that do a decent job making good bases from which to build my character from.

[DarkDrgon]

I used to be in a regular 3.5 game, but then my DM whipped out a new book to add more "Realism" to the game. It was the Book of Erotic Fantasy. our group was predominantly Women. huh?

Anyway, im more of a card game guy then a RPG. as I've metnioned before I play magic fairly regularly, but set out to play every card game i can at least once, so the one Im working on isn't a blatant copy.

[Raiden]

Mutants and Masterminds is fun, though I'm horrible at making characters for it.

GM Friend:"You can make any kind of superhero you want!"
Me: "Really?"
GM: "Of course. Just think of what you want to do, then we give your powers or equipment these lists of attributes so it works out."
Me: "...I want to be invincible."
GM: "Yeah, we can do that. Give you some invulnerability to lethal attacks."
Me: "No. Invincible and immortal."
GM: "Okay...you should have enough points to get an extended life."
Me: "No, I want to not need to eat or breath, won't be injured by any kind of physical or mental attack, radiation and mind powers can't affect him, and won't ever have to worry about sleep."
GM: "...really?"
Me: "Yes."
GM: "Well, you can pull it off if you lower your attributes I guess...though you won't be able to do much of anything."
Me: "I can be thrown through walls to make holes, I can be used as a weapon by the strong people, I can walk through nuclear fallout to replace radioactive rods if need be, and we can take out planes by throwing me into the turbines. We'll be good enough."

[EVILNess]

Dragons are really rare in the campaign I play in. Really rare. So much so that a pint sized jar of dragon blood is worth gobs of money.

I play a half red dragon. I constantly have to fend off attacks from blood bandits, alchemists, wizards, mercenaries, kings, necromancers, etc. You name it, I have been attacked by it so it can drain me of blood.

It doesn't help that I stand out like a sore thumb due to having wings, claws, and a tail. (When you create a half-dragon in our DnD group you roll 1d6 to determine a dragon likeness. 1=clawed hands 2=tail 3=dragon mouth 4=wings 5=nothing 6=roll again twice. I rolled a 6 twice ending up with a tail, claws and wings >_>)

The worst part is several of my own groupmates are trying to bleed me while I sleep :(

[Tev]

The worst part is several of my own groupmates are trying to bleed me while I sleep :(You should really give into that red dragon half of you, go evil, and torch them to death.

[DarkDrgon]

if I were in that situation i would hole myself up in a castle, and sell my own blood. you make more of it all the time.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

What I would do, is slaughter all goblins in the world except for a few you have holed up somewhere (for later profit!) so goblin blood is a new commodity.

[Magic_Marker]

Mutants and Masterminds is fun, though I'm horrible at making characters for it.

GM Friend:"You can make any kind of superhero you want!"
Me: "Really?"
GM: "Of course. Just think of what you want to do, then we give your powers or equipment these lists of attributes so it works out."
Me: "...I want to be invincible."
GM: "Yeah, we can do that. Give you some invulnerability to lethal attacks."
Me: "No. Invincible and immortal."
GM: "Okay...you should have enough points to get an extended life."
Me: "No, I want to not need to eat or breath, won't be injured by any kind of physical or mental attack, radiation and mind powers can't affect him, and won't ever have to worry about sleep."
GM: "...really?"
Me: "Yes."
GM: "Well, you can pull it off if you lower your attributes I guess...though you won't be able to do much of anything."
Me: "I can be thrown through walls to make holes, I can be used as a weapon by the strong people, I can walk through nuclear fallout to replace radioactive rods if need be, and we can take out planes by throwing me into the turbines. We'll be good enough."

Sounds like your GM was keeping you too confined by the standard start number of points. I probably would have said:

A: Your Stupid.
B: But let's start him off eariler in his career and he can bulid power later.

In MnM advancement is at GM's discretion so you could have had it at almost Manga level of Power ("Hey I just got Bankai and I only have done this thing for a year" Ichigo comes to mind) and have it level out later. But using a player a a weapon could be pretty cool. You'd be like a robot, or something that they players would use as a projectile, like a sentient missle...


hmmmm....

EDIT

Dragons are really rare in the campaign I play in. Really rare. So much so that a pint sized jar of dragon blood is worth gobs of money.

I play a half red dragon. I constantly have to fend off attacks from blood bandits, alchemists, wizards, mercenaries, kings, necromancers, etc. You name it, I have been attacked by it so it can drain me of blood.

It doesn't help that I stand out like a sore thumb due to having wings, claws, and a tail. (When you create a half-dragon in our DnD group you roll 1d6 to determine a dragon likeness. 1=clawed hands 2=tail 3=dragon mouth 4=wings 5=nothing 6=roll again twice. I rolled a 6 twice ending up with a tail, claws and wings >_>)

The worst part is several of my own groupmates are trying to bleed me while I sleep :(

There are so many solutions to that but I think that the status quo could no be improved upon for the sheer amount of hilarity that could be caused in such a campaign

[PhoenixFlame]

The worst part is several of my own groupmates are trying to bleed me while I sleep :(

Psh, Amateurs.

I'd cast a powerful regeneration spell on you and begin vivisecting important organs and limbs.

[Raiden]

Sounds like your GM was keeping you too confined by the standard start number of points. I probably would have said:

A: Your Stupid.
B: But let's start him off eariler in his career and he can bulid power later.

In MnM advancement is at GM's discretion so you could have had it at almost Manga level of Power ("Hey I just got Bankai and I only have done this thing for a year" Ichigo comes to mind) and have it level out later. But using a player a a weapon could be pretty cool. You'd be like a robot, or something that they players would use as a projectile, like a sentient missle...

Actually, he wasn't too bad about the points. I even had enough points left afterwards for a single power.

We called it "Contagious Depression".

Turns out that when you're immortal and sickly because of low physical attributes, there's a good chance you see everyone that you ever love die. It's even worse that because you're invincible/immortal, you probably take your pets into situations that you can survive, but they likely can't. So with the few points I had left, he had a power where he can talk about his life and it infects the target with severe depression. It is also contagious, so the debilitating depression spreads to every person the target comes in contact with.

Ever see an army commit mass-suicide after you told them about how you once just laid down in a spot and didn't move for ten years, until finally they built an aquarium over you? It's...depressing.

[Aerozord]

typically I play exalted, but sometimes I feel like letting off some steam, then I play Paranoia. A game where knowing the rules, is against the rules. Where the GM chapters have sections like "player conditioning" and "sustain psychological stress" With suggested rules like "Player tells you what he tries to do, you roll some dice, check a few charts, then make up something up"

[Azisien]

Oh man, d20 Future supplement is just awful for massive dice if you dabble in starship combat. It also makes no sense whatsoever, which is part of the fun!

In d20 Future, a 1 megaton nuclear weapon deals 16d8 damage. That tarrasque would be laughing! 16d8? I'm pretty sure I could do damage in that range with a 10th level 3rd edition Druid.

Folks mad with the bogus numbers calculated what an actual 1-MT bomb should do based on the numbers in the core rulebook given for TNT, and came up with something like 40000000000000000d6.

That's what the online D&D dice roller is for! Don't you guys DM with laptops!

[PhoenixFlame]

Would it not simply be easier to have it do an abstract number of damage in a sane range on a starship scale? That way, the player does not need to roll fourty million d6 to resolve a nuclear missile, which theoretically does less damage than an antimatter warhead.

Then you could make a cross-scale rule for those rare situations where a starship orbitally bombards a single person with a beam weapon (but really, does this ever happen?). For example, starship scale damage could be multiplied by say... 400 when switched to personal scale? Though if I were GMing, if someone got hit with a starship cannon, they'd die. Yet, more likely, they wouldn't get hit by a starship cannon in the first place.

PS: This is why I laughed out loud when the Jedi lightsaber deflect/redirect talents in SAGA mention that a Jedi cannot deflect starship weapons, except point defenses. I immediately saw a Jedi deflecting rapid fire point defenses back at a large cruiser hovering in low atmospheric.

[Azisien]

There have been various attempts to address the starship issues within d20 Future, among other things. It's taken years for the tiny Modern community to forge more sensible rules.

One of the problems is the core of Modern are different 'units' being able to interact with others, so infantry could fight vehicles, but then some vehicles are tough enough to fight Mechs, but some Mechs are tough enough to fight Starships, so it had to be somewhat compatible.

Suggestions such as the ones you used have been implemented with success (something like starship weapons do x10 vs mechs, x20 vs vehicles, x50 vs soldiers).

When I ran d20 Future campaigns I always worked around the problem in two ways: Firstly I did increase the raw power of starship weapons (since I have laptop dice rollers, 200d8 or 2d8 makes little difference to me), and second allowed PCs to make things like turrets with starship-grade power and, sadly, d20 Future never addressed.

[Aerozord]

you know if you drop a nuke on a single character, unless he has some insane defence, I'd just say he dies. Exalted does this for the higher end stuff like that, where the number of dice is given (250d10 for example) but the book says unless they have a perfect defence, just assume it dies

[PhoenixFlame]

Only thing I dislike about ridiculous numbers of dice is that, while on a statistically flattening curve, they have absurdly wide "possible" variances. Then again, this is just me applying rules from a system I think did the whole thing better.

In Cthulthutech, the same situation exists, where infantry, mechs, and naval vessels/starships can interact in a semi-meaningful way on the battlefield. Actions are similar, combat is of similar granularity such that the system does not break at the far edges of large or small numbers, the only difference is scale. Infantry operate on vitality scale, Mechs operate on integrity scale, and Vessels operate on structural scale.

Effectively, one "hit point" in any given scale is 50x the previous scale. A single integrity damage from a featherlight mecha weapon will hit an infantryman for a rather significant fifty vitality damage, wheras hitting the mech for 49 or less vitality damage in return simply won't do anything to it. In the incredibly unlikely event that an infantryman suffers structural damage, well he's dead, because 2500 damage is huger than huge.

It's similar to what you mentioned, but I personally find it a lot more elegant than exponentially increasing numbers in a linear scale.

PS, Above: If you're going to nuke someone in exalted, don't settle for anything less than (Infinity)L damage.
Edit, Down: Provided he could clear 30km instantaneously, yes?

[Azisien]

you know if you drop a nuke on a single character, unless he has some insane defence, I'd just say he dies. Exalted does this for the higher end stuff like that, where the number of dice is given (250d10 for example) but the book says unless they have a perfect defence, just assume it dies

Without GM intervention, by strict interpretation of the rulebook, a 1MT nuke dropped on a Fast Hero would entitle him a reflex save with improved evasion, and he'd manage to dodge that 30km wide nuclear fireball.

At least he'd get radiation sickness?

Edit: You come to understand, that d20 Modern is a fantastic system. But a lot of the seething rage for its d20 Future supplement is justified.

[Magic_Marker]

Without GM intervention, by strict interpretation of the rulebook, a 1MT nuke dropped on a Fast Hero would entitle him a reflex save with improved evasion, and he'd manage to dodge that 30km wide nuclear fireball.

At least he'd get radiation sickness?

Edit: You come to understand, that d20 Modern is a fantastic system. But a lot of the seething rage for its d20 Future supplement is justified.

I would think that Evasion wouldn't work as the character can't dodge the area of the blast. That or make the reflex save undodge-able.

[Azisien]

Well hey good news is I've never had any reason to nuke a single player so it matters not. And nobody in my group would question the nuke vaporizing things as it should, either. It was just bad, bad design work.

[Aerozord]

I think the problem is game designers try to make it possible to survive anything, when sometimes, the character should just plain die

[Azisien]

I think the problem is game designers try to make it possible to survive anything, when sometimes, the character should just plain die

I can almost liken it to the fluffing up of most mainstream video games that I can think of. They are either really easy by default or come installed with 'ultimate fucking pussy' mode.

What we really need to do is come up with more approaches for forcing people to write up new character sheets.

[PhoenixFlame]

Admittantly, there's no real reason why the PC should die in virtually any situation provided everything goes to plan. Surely there's more ways to avoid being nuked than going "I dodge the nuclear blast!" because, even in Exalted this makes me go *headache*.

It can be really amusing, though when characters try to perfect soak infinate damage lasers, or being impaled by a two mile long spear of the living earth. As the ST, you get to do fun things like "So you've soaked the infinate damage beam. There's a 50 lethal blast wave. Oh? You soak that too? Well, you're now swimming in a pool of molten glass. You have survival charms? Alright, you escape to the edge of the pool of rapidly cooling molten glass using your water-walking athletics kung-fu in conjunction with the ability to survive swimming in molten glass."

That and "You survived, but are two miles underground. What do you do now?" really makes Exalted for me, but I digress. Some really epic attacks require equally epic tenacity.

[Magic_Marker]

That's why I love games that have this as Rule Number One for their games:

Do whatever is most fun in your game. It helps that some of the best systems that can handle almost anything have this encoded as a core mechanic.

[Jay]

I'm an elitist snob that thinks D&D 3E is an atrocious abomination of a system... and that 4E managed to make it ever so slightly better. I still wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole if my current group were able to play anything else.

Favorite systems are Nobilis and Unknown Armies, followed in the distance by oWoD.

[Aerozord]

Admittantly, there's no real reason why the PC should die in virtually any situation provided everything goes to plan. Surely there's more ways to avoid being nuked than going "I dodge the nuclear blast!" because, even in Exalted this makes me go *headache*.


assuming you have a good GM, as in one that wouldn't go "rocks fall everyone dies", if a nuke falls on you you really screwed up and need to take your lumps. And if your GM is a dick and just wanted to kill you, well, then you are just plain screwed


It can be really amusing, though when characters try to perfect soak infinate damage lasers, or being impaled by a two mile long spear of the living earth. As the ST, you get to do fun things like "So you've soaked the infinate damage beam. There's a 50 lethal blast wave. Oh? You soak that too? Well, you're now swimming in a pool of molten glass. You have survival charms? Alright, you escape to the edge of the pool of rapidly cooling molten glass using your water-walking athletics kung-fu in conjunction with the ability to survive swimming in molten glass."

That and "You survived, but are two miles underground. What do you do now?" really makes Exalted for me, but I digress. Some really epic attacks require equally epic tenacity.

yes in exalted, but most games dont have abilities that go "attack fails"

[PhoenixFlame]

Hence why I mentioned it specifically. Still, even when you have abilities that automatically fail attacks, you still have to deal with their secondary effects. (And in particularly nasty cases, tertiary effects.)

But if your GM wants to just kill you for whatever reason, you have larger problems than system.

Edit, Down: "Provided everything goes to plan."

[Aerozord]

yup, but I do see nothing wrong with a GM dropping a nuke on you when you were clearly warned of the high likelihood of it happening. I've seen a player purposefully try to destablize a nuclear reactor. Far as I'm concerned what ever happens after that is his own fault

[Raiden]

yup, but I do see nothing wrong with a GM dropping a nuke on you when you were clearly warned of the high likelihood of it happening. I've seen a player purposefully try to destablize a nuclear reactor. Far as I'm concerned what ever happens after that is his own fault

You can Seven Shadow Evade a Total Annihilation apparently. Just have to...keep jumping until the explosion is done.

[Magic_Marker]

yup, but I do see nothing wrong with a GM dropping a nuke on you when you were clearly warned of the high likelihood of it happening. I've seen a player purposefully try to destablize a nuclear reactor. Far as I'm concerned what ever happens after that is his own fault


I've actually heard of a tale where a SWRPG group had to get of Alderaan before Vader blew it up. Same princible, and for the record I would love to play in such a game.

[synkr0nized]

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