Homesuck: Vriska Rising

[POS Industries]

COMB RAVE! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uU7-X0iHes&feature=related)
HIVE RAGTIME. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4onfdjQkkqY)

Some people just don't recognize a perfect soundtrack selection when it blows their internal organs out of their abdomen with the most MAGICAL of magicks.
Best part? Kanaya getting blasted through the stomach was a literal punch in the gut.

How can I appreciate something that gets that goddamn song playing in my head every single time I read it?
You're welcome.

[BitVyper]

If you have got links to GeneralIvan's Homestuck stuff, you goddamn post them right goddamn now.

I didn't realise he'd just delisted them.

[POS Industries]

Sorry, I only have that one, and I got it straight from his analogous mouth.

[Aldurin]

I've been thinking this over, categorizing the trolls.

Safe:
Karkat
Terezi
Vriska
Eridan (safe-ish since he's starting fights).
Sollux (but KO'd)
Aradia

Dead:
Tavros
Kanaya
Feferi

Unaccounted:
Nepeta
Gamzee
Equius

I think Gamzee gets the scratch marks from fighting Nepeta for some reason. Equius I'm betting is Eridan's next victim.

[Archbio]

Harmony and understanding,
Sympathy and trust abounding.
No more falsehoods or derisions.
Golden living dreams of visions,
Mystic crystal revelation,
And the mind's true liberation.
Aquarius! Aquarius!

[Art of Hilt]

Don't turn your back on the body.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5995/0cx23.gif

e- the gif also applies to the new update oh shit gamzee what the fuck oh god
are you now the two dudes in the icp in one body is that what happened
so terrifying

[akaSM]

Oh god the clown Gamzee went all Joker now D:

[BitVyper]

well....

fuck

[Intern Nin]

Oh shit, this really is a slasher movie now.

[Arcanum]

I can't help but think Gamzee flipping the fuck out is somehow Dave's fault.

[BitVyper]

I'm just going to.... sit over here in the corner... with a flashlight.... and not sleep.... or close my eyes...

ever

[Fifthfiend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFGMr7MJP1Y

[CelesJessa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFGMr7MJP1Y

I was going to link that. D:

But yeah, yeesh, holy shit Gamzee.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyophYBP_w4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVGNJvWnG5E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EOKOAQrlLI


Also feelin' bad for Karkat now.
I hope some good news comes his way at some point.
Which is totally not what's going to happen because HE TOOK HIS EYES OFF THE GODDAMN BODY.

[POS Industries]

Nothing can beat the music of hundreds of juggalos honking in unison.

[PCD]

Hahahaha hope no one who reads this comic has a bad clown phobia. Can't sleep, clowns will eat me, indeed...

[Locke cole]

I twigged that something was wrong when I noticed that Gamzee wasn't using his usual typing quirk.

It's even creepier when you take his new quirk literally. He's foaming-at-the-mouth screaming every other line, and severely whispering all the others.

[Archbio]

I can't help but think Gamzee flipping the fuck out is somehow Dave's fault.

I'm blaming the Insane Clown Posse directly, myself.

Don't shoot the messenger.

[Art of Hilt]

la comédie :o)
LA MOTHERFUCKING TRAGEDIE Do:

aha ha ha ha oh god this is so horrifying that it loops right back to being fucking hilarious jesus christ

[POS Industries]

I twigged that something was wrong when I noticed that Gamzee wasn't using his usual typing quirk.

It's even creepier when you take his new quirk literally. He's foaming-at-the-mouth screaming every other line, and severely whispering all the others.
I thought it was interesting to note that his old typing quirk was just both whispering and screaming personalities talking simultaneously.

[Fifthfiend]

I think the important thing to note is that your user title is no longer canon

[Marc v4.0]

Didn't consider at first, but of course Scratch wasn't talking about anything in the immediate now. It's another BS Cryptic Future Warning

[Locke cole]

Guys. Guys, remember this conversation? (http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004718)


TG: it was months ago for me
TG: you did your bizarrely oblivious juggalo thing
TG: then bitched and moaned at me for ruining your religion or some horseshit
TG: like i guess a weird crisis in faith i dunno
TG: and then
TG: you kinda got over that i guess

[...]

TG: trust me itll lift your spirits shit will all make sense to you finally
TG: youll finally figure out who you are and why you worship all this ridiculous clown bullshit

[...]

TG: but like
TG: the thing youre looking for
TG: your dark clownish salvation or whatever the fuck
TG: your mirthful messiahs
TG: ahahahaha i cant even type that without lmao
TG: anyway theyre here dude
TG: check it out


Dave, Dave what have you done.

[Archbio]

How could we forget?

Edit: But really, in retrospect, would this new Gamzee bitch and moan? It seems as though maybe I'm getting the sequence of event really wrong, or Dave is really, really bad at reading tones and moods. Way to be insensitive, jackass.

[POS Industries]

I think the important thing to note is that your user title is no longer canon
Noted and duly accounted for!

[katiuska]

I considered making some kind of joke related to the thread title and being destined for greatness or madness, but it all seems kinda irrelevant now. I need to get on board sooner.

I twigged that something was wrong when I noticed that Gamzee wasn't using his usual typing quirk.

Gamzee's break was telegraphed pretty hard, but it was still chilling to read.

How could we forget?

Edit: But really, in retrospect, would this new Gamzee bitch and moan? It seems as though maybe I'm getting the sequence of event really wrong, or Dave is really, really bad at reading tones and moods. Way to be insensitive, jackass.

It's also chilling to image Dave having a rap-off with this new version of him.

Actually, I've noticed Dave has had a worrying trend of glossing over things throughout the comic, so I can easily see him failing to realize that he's talking to a psycho, especially if Gamzee remains amiable. It's also not like he would have had experience with Gamzee's usual personality to work from.

[Overcast]

Enter new issue schizophrenia. Gamzee has suffered from a revelation that has shown the world as he saw it to be entirely false and so he has split himself so thoroughly from everything in his breakdown that he isn't even who he was anymore. It isn't just a question of morality or empathy anymore, he doesn't comprehend reality. He is a danger to himself and everyone around him.

And apparently he is actually strong enough for that to be a fucking hazard.

Treatment requested, a room with padded walls. A jacket that cuts off one's ability to get any kind of movement in the arms. Chains. Drugs. It is the kind of thing you don't just try to talk out of a person, you have to break them again and rebuild until they come back to what is real, and some people never come back.

[Archbio]

Actually, I've noticed Dave has had a worrying trend of glossing over things throughout the comic, so I can easily see him failing to realize that he's talking to a psycho, especially if Gamzee remains amiable.

I prefer to think, until proven wrong, that Gamzee was as menacing and chilling to Dave as he was to Karkat (if not more menacing, since there has to be something that can be confused as "bitching and moaning" in there) and that Dave just downplayed everything.

If "ironic" can cover puppet pornography, it might cover death threats.

[Geminex]

Ooookaaaay then.
Gamzee going for the whole 'evil clown' thing?
Nice.
...
Very nice.

...

WE ALL FLOAT DOWN HERE, KARKAT
YOU'LL FLOAT TOO, KARKAT :0)
HONK HONK HONK

Also, I wasn't aware that the thread title was a reference to anything. May I be enlightened further?

[Archbio]

May I be enlightened further?

We all will be enlightened, in the Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_aquarius) of Aquarius. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9oq_IskRIg)

[Geminex]

Dieses Video enthält Content von Sony Music Entertainment. Es ist in deinem Land nicht verfügbar.
Rough translation: Fuck Sony. Also fuck UMG.
YEAH, GUYS. STOP ME FROM LISTENING TO YOUR MUSIC ON YOUTUBE. CLEARLY THIS WILL GET ME TO CONSUME FROM YOU, BECAUSE IF I'M WILLING TO CHECK OUT A SONG ON YOUTUBE, I SHOULD ALSO BE WILLING TO PAY FOR THIS SONG, AND PREVENTING ME FROM LISTENING TO IT WILL GET ME TO BUY IT FROM YOU, RATHER THAN MAKING RAGE-POSTS WHICH ABUSE CAPS LOCK LIKE IT'S FENRIS' MOM.

Aaaand that's it for today's episode of 'Gem gets annoyed at the music industry without actually having any idea what he's talking about', now back to our regularly scheduled program.

What're the bets that Gamzee's hurt Nepeta?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Does this mean Gamzee was the one to survive the Great Clash of the Trolls if he lived to 0 on the countdown?

[katiuska]

It's from this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_%28musical%29)

The whole "Aquarius" thing in the musical is a dual reference to the supposed coming of the Age of Aquarius in astrology and the lead character's birth sign.

The show also spawned a handful of hit covers, so the songs are well-known outside of context, but I was obsessed with Hair as a 13-year-old, so there's no way I'd leave it at "it was a song by the 5th Dimension."

[Geminex]

Ah, excellent. I googled it, but the results were kinda confusing. Thanks.

[synkr0nized]

Vriska killing people and being selfish amuses me.
Eridan doing it makes me frown.

Why is that?



I, for one, await "god-tier" reveals for Fef and Kanaya. If it doesn't happen, well, I guess I'll be very disappointed.




Also what the fuck Gamzee and Scratch. What the fuck.

[BitVyper]

How could we forget?

Edit: But really, in retrospect, would this new Gamzee bitch and moan? It seems as though maybe I'm getting the sequence of event really wrong, or Dave is really, really bad at reading tones and moods. Way to be insensitive, jackass.

Guessing he wasn't the NEW Gamzee until he "got over that."

I, for one, await "god-tier" reveals for Fef and Kanaya. If it doesn't happen, well, I guess I'll be very disappointed.

I'm not writing off the possibility, but to be honest, I'm not expecting any of this to be undone.

Edit: Although Kanaya was always into troll vampires...

[Locke cole]

I, for one, await "god-tier" reveals for Fef and Kanaya. If it doesn't happen, well, I guess I'll be very disappointed.

Jack killed Fef's dreamself. Not happening.

[Marc v4.0]

On that note, I don't think this death has anything to do at all with Fef's 'I'm Dead" nonsense earlier. Considering Jade talked to her in the land of living people afterwards, I thought it was pretty clear she was still alive, and it was just her dreamself that was dead.

I tried to find the relevant post to direct this to but fuck you guys talk way too damn much

[Aldurin]

Oh wow, I'm sure we're gonna see Nepeta fall to the ground using the "DEAD" sound effect with a juggling implement through her gut.

And geez Dave the shit you've caused is almost bigger than what Vriska did.

[Art of Hilt]

On that note, I don't think this death has anything to do at all with Fef's 'I'm Dead" nonsense earlier. Considering Jade talked to her in the land of living people afterwards, I thought it was pretty clear she was still alive, and it was just her dreamself that was dead.

I tried to find the relevant post to direct this to but fuck you guys talk way too damn much

Dream bubble conversations happen at Rainbow Road, outside the timelines of any universe.
Feferi slept once when she was alive (around the time Aradia exploded and right after her dreamself died). In that sleep, she met Jade for the first time, when Jade looked out of the bubble and saw the horrorterrors. Feferi was normal and not dead. This was confirmed by Feferi contacting Jade immediately afterwards.
We don't see Feferi go to sleep again until she's dead. Jade managed to sleep a second time when she entered the session. That's when Jade saw I'M D--EAD Feferi.
So they're probably related.

[MuMu]

I think someone mentioned earlier that Gamzee could be in the horn piling while Fef and Sollux were grubbing each other. There better not be any honking while Karkat is distracted,

[Loyal]

I'd be feeling these story developments a bit more if they didn't basically come out of fuckin' nowhere and all at once like this.

[Donomni]

So Gamzee's pies were his not-evil medication. Huh. Or not-Joker, I guess.

[Fifthfiend]

Vriska killing people and being selfish amuses me.
Eridan doing it makes me frown.

Why is that?

you hate cripples

[Bard The 5th LW]

Oh God, Nepeta is still wandering around. HIDE NEPETA


I also recall Tavros saying to Dave "it will be the worst thing you could ever do" but not explaining what he did. Tavros would have no way of knowing about this, but it is applicable.

Also here is some fan music made months ago by some dude. (http://tindeck.com/listen/bvbc) The title should be indicative.

[Art of Hilt]

Oh God, Nepeta is still wandering around. HIDE NEPETA

Nepeta? Hide?
Observe:

Gamzee = Harlequin = John
Eridan = Wizard = Rose
Vriska = Puppet (mind control) = Dave
Nepeta = Furry = Jade

Nepeta will go yandere over Karkat after Gamzee kills Equius. She will want love, and if she can't have it, then she will have more blood on her walls. It turns out Equius was the pacifying moirail all this time.

[Marc v4.0]

Dream bubble conversations happen at Rainbow Road, outside the timelines of any universe.
Feferi slept once when she was alive (around the time Aradia exploded and right after her dreamself died). In that sleep, she met Jade for the first time, when Jade looked out of the bubble and saw the horrorterrors. Feferi was normal and not dead. This was confirmed by Feferi contacting Jade immediately afterwards.
We don't see Feferi go to sleep again until she's dead. Jade managed to sleep a second time when she entered the session. That's when Jade saw I'M D--EAD Feferi.
So they're probably related.

I'm not comfortable basing things on assumptions that people did or did not do things only because we weren't shown.

It is likely that was the case, but still.

[stefan]

you know, before you all get TOO freaked out over Gamze killing everyone, I should probably point out that, in the "most important character in homestuck" scene, the only blood on him is his own.

I'm predicting that Gamzee is just going through the pangs of Sopor Withdrawal, and will chill the fuck out once somebody (lets say, oh, Nepeta) beats him into unconsciousness long enough to sleep it off.

[IHateMakingNames]

I'm afraid Equius will die by basically letting Gamzee kill him, due to blood, or just get shanked. Which would suck because I want Equius to do something story relevant for once.

[Loyal]

While Equius has a huge dom/sub thing going, I doubt it's to the extent of allowing himself to be murdered because a highblood said so. He'd probably be long dead, before the story even started, were that the case.

[stefan]

I'm afraid Equius will die by basically letting Gamzee kill him, due to blood, or just get shanked. Which would suck because I want Equius to do something story relevant for once.

see, the way I see it, this whole thing is indirectly setting up the next step in Equius' character development, where he finally decides to stop giving a damn about the Hemospectrum and outright attacks one of the higher caste trolls to defend Karkat or Nepeta or someone. His whole character arc has been moving from "racist with a sub fetish" to actually realizing there's more to someone than what color they bleed, and a scene where he outright confronts this is the next logical step.

[Premmy]

Before we get all freaked out about Gamzee going joker, do we have any evidence that he can be a credible threat? like, maybe the slime supressed some psychic powers, which would be annoying, but is there anything to prove he is skilled/powerful enough as a slacker/stoner suddenly become dangerously competent to actually kill the remaining trolls who are?

A Catgirl Who kills animals all the time with her bare hands/claws
Daredevil
The Hulk
An evil bitch with luck stealing powers and psychic manipulation powers
A Time-manipulating girl who talks to the dead
A powerful telekinetic with laser vision
a science wizard
Karkat

[Overcast]

He somehow made it through the game despite being entirely incompetent as far as we know. He probably even made it to the top of his echeladder since Aradia said they all did. If we actually gave him a brain to work with he might actually have the guile to do something absolutely miraculous.

Of course this is an assumption, the real answer is: No. We have hints he already took care of catgirl, but otherwise no.

EDIT: Also I don't know how worried we are of him killing any of the God Tiers, but everyone else seems fair game. And that is worrysome.

[MuMu]

All of them are at the top of the Echeladders. Aradia and Vriska are untouchable due to Godtier-dom. Karkat lives enough to make up a plan with John, so he's got plot armor. Eridan has his wand of science so I guess there isn't much anyone can do to harm him right now. I'm gonna go that Terezi is too important to die right now. That leaves Nepeta and Equius.

Of course, anything could happen. Instead of dying, Karkat just get some serious wounds. Eridan is backstabbed. Gamzee just rolls out, cuts himself and dies. Etc.

[Premmy]

No. We have hints he already took care of catgirl, but otherwise no.

Where?
edit: All we have is evidence that somebody or something fucked him up (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005119)

[Overcast]

The slashes on his face, only one character uses a weapon that would make that kind of wound. And if he is still alive after getting it we can imagine the person who delivered it is not.

But Eridan is only untouchable because the two folks who tried to kill him bum rushed him, which I can tell you just from real life bum rushing someone with an accurate ranged weapon when you have a close range weapon is a bad idea. If Gamzee can sneak up on him, or even get close enough because Eridan doesn't know he has broken from reality yet he could be meat.

And I hope Terezei is beyond killing, but I'm not sure yet.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I'd say is that thje best hope is all the psycho trolls (Vriska, Eridan, Gamzee) running into each other and sort of thinning the crazy herd. Vriska would most definitely rise as the winner, but at least she's a bit more predictable.

I'm kind of hoping that this is the last of the deaths for now, but it seems that is a bit too optimistic. Kanaya and Tavros had stuff going for them, but it is the end. I at least hope Equius and Nepeta can get fleshed out more.

[Wigmund]

The slashes on his face, only one character uses a weapon that would make that kind of wound. And if he is still alive after getting it we can imagine the person who delivered it is not.

Karkat wields two sickles. Double slash to the face?

[Premmy]

or, you know, just blood spatters?

[Flarecobra]

How would you get his own blood on his face like that?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Karkat wields two sickles. Double slash to the face?

I've seen it be said and in fan-art everywhere, but where has Karkat ever actually dual wielded sickles? It seems pretty pervasive as far as fanon goes.

[Fifthfiend]

In Make Her Pay.

[Premmy]

How would you get his own blood on his face like that?


Massive lacerations by a large weapon/energy blast somewhere below the face, my point is those don't HAVE to be Claw-marks or even wounds at all

Maybe he went rolling in Feferi's blood and that's why Karkat shouldn't have turned his back on the body.

[mauve]

I was under the impression that Gamzee's wounds were self-inflicted; something that happened during his [Hero Mode/ICP/ slime pie withdrawal]-induced descent into madness.

I guess it COULD have been Nepeta, though...

[POS Industries]

It's really just an Occam's razor situation. The only weapon that we know for a fact could inflict that exact wound is Nepeta's. Any other option falls under either A) something we haven't seen yet and therefore may or may not exist or B) a more convoluted and/or specious explanation with little to no basis in the events of the narrative thus far.

While it is possible that something other than Nepeta slashed his face like that, it is way less likely.

[Premmy]

I was under the impression that Gamzee's wounds were self-inflicted; something that happened during his [Hero Mode/ICP/ slime pie withdrawal]-induced descent into madness.

I guess it COULD have been Nepeta, though...
This is my main guess, truth told.
Like, if Gamzee is gonna be able to Kill anyone in this situation, it's probably not going to be in a straight confrontation , I think, so he'd stealth kill them and not get hurt. But going crazy and hurting himself sounds about right to me.

[Bard The 5th LW]

In Make Her Pay.

I just rewatched, and at no point did Karkat seem to have two sickles.

I'm pretty curious where the idea came from.

[Premmy]

Math 1 sickle=Awesome
2 sickles=Double awesome

[Fifthfiend]

I just rewatched, and at no point did Karkat seem to have two sickles.

I'm pretty curious where the idea came from.

HUH I would have sworn that had been in there.

[POS Industries]

This is my main guess, truth told.
Like, if Gamzee is gonna be able to Kill anyone in this situation, it's probably not going to be in a straight confrontation , I think, so he'd stealth kill them and not get hurt. But going crazy and hurting himself sounds about right to me.
If he were gonna stealth in, he wouldn't have announced it to the team leader in advance.

He's a bard. A performer. A showman. He'll want the spotlight as he does it.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Math 1 sickle=Awesome
2 sickles=Double awesome

Undoubtedly true, but I think I recall some fanart of it back when Karkat was still just CG. This stuff is buried deep in the history of Homestuck fandom. I think there's more two it than what is seen.

I have resolved to make it my life's work to unveil the truth behind the dastardly Double Sickle Conspiracy.

[POS Industries]

I think there's more two it than what is seen.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/severalbadpunslater.jpg

[Premmy]

If he were gonna stealth in, he wouldn't have announced it to the team leader in advance.

He's a bard. A performer. A showman. He'll want the spotlight as he does it.

Even if we go that route, I still don't think it'd be direct confrontation so much as circus-themed deathtraps and the like. I just don't see Gamzee brawling with anybody,

[POS Industries]

Even if we go that route, I still don't think it'd be direct confrontation so much as circus-themed deathtraps and the like. I just don't see Gamzee brawling with anybody,
What has led you to believe he wouldn't?

Because I just saw him quite boldly declare that he's the MOTHERFUCKIN' MESSIAH so I really don't think subtlety is his game.

[Premmy]

You can be unsubtle without punching people/clubbing them with juggling batons.

[POS Industries]

See? That's another thing! His weapons of choice are blunt instruments.

The guy is a brawler!

[Premmy]

trying to find images of him using them deftly, a large part of his shtick before crazy was that he sucked at everything and just sort of stumbled through life.
edit: Equius's weapon is a bow, and we know how that works.

[POS Industries]

Yeah. He was high all the time. His personality was radically different.

edit: Equius's weapon is a bow, and we know how that works.
His primary weapon is fistkind. He just really wishes he could use a bow. It's not really comparable.

[Premmy]

exactly, so I see him just dropping those damn things and constructing some kind of terrible calliope of death.

[POS Industries]

Based on what evidence? He is a clown. He hasn't dropped that. He's just now a clown that believes himself the messiah and is hell-bent on brutally murdering everyone around him. He has been shown, in the future beyond the current point in the story, bearing wounds on his face that, with no other possibility having yet presented itself in the story, were likely delivered by Nepeta. There is no evidence whatsoever suggesting that he's going to be all sneaky and clever in any way whatsoever, because he is a parody of ICP.

So what has led you to believe otherwise?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Its all part of the conspiracy I tell you.

[Premmy]

His primary weapon is fistkind. He just really wishes he could use a bow. It's not really comparable.
Really? I thought otherwise, eh.


There is no evidence whatsoever suggesting that he's going to be all sneaky and clever in any way whatsoever, because he is a parody of ICP.

Again, I don't necessarily think he's going to be sneaky, that was wrong, and you're right. But I ALSO don't see him being a credible threat in single combat. If he was going to actually straight up fight anybody, I'd imagine it done from on top of some death machine or in some circus of fear he'd constructed cackle/snickering like a madman.

Like, The Joker never brawls with anybody, but he also is usually about as subtle as a clown at dinnertime. Laughing fish, hijacked blimps, all that.

I just think since I can't recall seeing him beating the shit out of anybody in anyway( didn't he just chill with the imps on his world or something? thought he gave them slime pies) that he's not gonna bust out the clown-fu.

This is pretty much going on my feeling that he's gone from Insane Clown Posse(ineffectually menacing evil clowns) to the Joker(Effectually menacing evil clown)

[Overcast]

The Joker brawls plenty, with varying results depending on the facet of his sanity at the time. And what you aren't getting here is that the Joker has nothing at all to do with this. He has gone to the current career of ICP which has devolved into Miracles to the early career of ICP which altogether had a message of a much darker nature.

If he is following to the letter he has a hatchet.

[POS Industries]

Okay, I kinda see where you're going here. My thought is that he really hasn't so much gone from ICP to the Joker as he has just shifted from different aspect of Juggalo culture. For the most part, they're happy to just sit around in clown makeup drinking shitty cheap soda and listening to terrible music. But then you have the other side of Juggalo behavior where they're smashing Tila Tequila in the face with beer bottles. I mean, ICP's logo is a picture of a crazy dude running around with a hatchet. Savage violence is part of the package.

Gamzee hasn't stopped being an ICP reference. It's just that he is an ICP reference that isn't being played for laughs anymore.

[Premmy]

The Joker brawls plenty, with varying results depending on the facet of his sanity at the time.

And what you aren't getting here is that the Joker has nothing at all to do with this. He has gone to the current career of ICP which has devolved into Miracles to the early career of ICP which altogether had a message of a much darker nature.

If he is following to the letter he has a hatchet.
You know, I completely forgot that they started as horrorcore rappers... but does this change much?

All that means is they went from the mIrAcLe thing(Ineffectual Menacing Evil Clowns) to darker material (Effectually Menacing Evil Clown)
edit: Basically, both things draw on the exact same trope, evil clowns, with not much in the way of subversion so I'm not seeing the difference

[POS Industries]

Basically, both Things draw on the exact same trope, evil clowns, with not much in the way of subversion so I'm not seeing the difference
The difference is that it's not about the clown trope. It's Juggalo-specific behavior.

Nepeta, in this scenario, is Tila Tequila.

[Overcast]

Exactly, which comes back to the subtlety. Subtlety that ICP tends to lack, let it be stories of them being brutally murdered walking down the street by random monsters, killing your neighbors for the ghost girl who said if you did it she would stay with you forever, a maze full of deathtraps(I know it sounds subtle, but believe me it is not) they have a habit of being sudden. Maybe even blunt. But subtle...that is outside their area.

Long story short. There are different kinds of evil clowns, you are thinking of the wrong kind.

[Premmy]

Hmm, guess so, didn't think of it like that
also
Its all part of the clownspiracy I tell you.

do it right, man
edit:
Exactly, which comes back to the subtlety. Subtlety that ICP tends to lack, let it be stories of them being brutally murdered walking down the street by random monsters, killing your neighbors for the ghost girl who said if you did it she would stay with you forever, a maze full of deathtraps(I know it sounds subtle, but believe me it is not) they have a habit of being sudden. Maybe even blunt. But subtle...that is outside their area.

Long story short. There are different kinds of evil clowns, you are thinking of the wrong kind.
Again, it's not a matter of cleverness as much as thinking he's got nothing on the people he wants to kill(except karkat) if he's planning to do it in a straight on hand-to hand fight, so he'd do it in some way that involves him not using clown-fu, even if that's just getting a gun. What I'm saying is if he kills anybody, it's not going to be in a situation in which he can easily be hurt, because if it IS he's dead like disco in under a second.
Obviously you two know more about ICP than me. I am very happy to admit this.

[POS Industries]

Again, it's not a matter of cleverness as much as thinking he's got nothing on the people he wants to kill(except karkat) if he's planning to do it in a straight on hand-to hand fight, so he'd do it in some way that involves him not using clown-fu, even if that's just getting a gun. What I'm saying is if he kills anybody, it's not going to be in a situation in which he can easily be hurt, because if it IS he's dead like Tavros
It could go either way. There's no evidence to suggest that he was incompetent in battle, only that he was never in any state of mind where he wished to engage in it. In fact, in Make Her Pay, he was shown doing somersaults and juggling his clubs around with, quite honestly, more grace and precision than any of the other trolls were showing. And that was when he was high as fuck.

If that's indicative of his level of skill, I would not put him being a very serious threat in direct combat out of the realm of probability.

[Fifthfiend]

He's going to fight like the Joker in that one issue of Batgirl where the Joker was slapping the shit out of Cassandra Cain because he's CRAZY and who the fuck knows what he's going to do next.

[Premmy]

Yeah but we're down to the most powerful/capable fighters at this point.
Like yeah, He could kill Tavros,Kanaya, Feferi(maybe, can't remember), Karkat, I might give him Terezi and Nepeta, in the right situation, like Nepeta just can't bring herself to hurt him for some reason But He's not anything resembling a threat to Eridan, Vriska, or Aradia, or Sollux
He's going to fight like the Joker in that one issue of Batgirl where the Joker was slapping the shit out of Cassandra Cain because he's CRAZY and who the fuck knows what he's going to do next.

You're thinking of Robin....

[Marc v4.0]

I'm still don't understand how you people are measuring the combat effectivness of the Trolls that aren't God-Tier/Magic Asshats.

The entire thought line that 'Well, he could kill him him and her but this guy is going to be tough and this other girl is blah blah" reeks of "I'm not actually basing this on anything at all".

Especially considering they are all on equal footing by levels, excluding the obvious God-Tiers, and their weapons don't really give them them overpowering advantages or reach or magic, excluding Magical Asshat

[Overcast]

I said there was a possibility he could kill everyone aside from the God Teirs with the right situation. The same could be said of everyone else. They are on equal footing, aside from the range of Eridan. Prems is the one trying to measure power on assumption.

[Marc v4.0]

Karkat and Kanaya keep coming up as hand-waves, and with no real reason why.

Except that one of them is Dead.

But Magic is just godmodding

[Premmy]

1: Equis has super strength powerful enough to make destruction of battle-robots an insufficient challenge for his crazy rage, and allows him to one-shot all the enemies we see him fight and jump what has got to be a good few miles into the air, and then survive a fall from the same height.

2:Sollux has Telekinesis and Laser-eyes

the only ones left are Aradia, Vriska, and Eridan and you covered them yourself

I give an advantage to Nepeta based on her having experience hunting and killing for most of her life.

I'm on the fence about Terezi, but the whole Daredevil thing makes me fall more or less in her favor.

I consider Karkat to be on equal levels with Gamzee, as well as Feferi and Kanaya

Tavros, robot legs or not, is too big a pussy to kick anyone's ass.

[POS Industries]

Plus I don't recall anyone suggesting he would be going up against anyone but Nepeta (since she's the only one with any evidence supporting the possibility) anyway, and Premmy apparently thinks he has a shot there, so the whole argument is pretty much moot.

[Locke cole]

About Equius.

What if Gamzee approaches him and orders him to die?

[MuMu]

2:Sollux has Laser-eyes

Well, not anymore.

About Equius.

What if Gamzee approaches him and orders him to die?

See the whole "Equius finally realizing blood caste is bollocks" discussion on the last page.

[Locke cole]

Well, not anymore.

Just because he's lost the ability to register light going into them doesn't necessarily mean that he's lost the abilty to fire deathbeams out of them.

edit:

And the last page was all about how ICP would fight.

[MuMu]

I think he lost them entirely.

[Locke cole]

I think he lost them entirely.

What, his eyes? Like, Eridan just HOPE'd his eyeballs into little piles of ash?

...I'm not seeing it.

(oh wait, the last two pages were about how Gamzee/ICP would fight. I'll find the Equius stuff sooner or later)

[Loyal]

Sollux's eyes are still intact. His blindness (assuming the likely scenario that he is in fact blind from the latest development) is due to massive head trauma from being HOPE'd into a wall.

Besides, it's not like he needs his eyes to use psionics anyway.

[Overcast]

Though he may have lost vision twofold, however useful that has ever been.

[Loyal]

Once he gets over Fef's death he'll probably be ecstatic that he can no longer hear the voices.

[Locke cole]

Didn't he once predict that he'd end up going blind so that he'd have stronger psychic visions?

[BitVyper]

I think Gamzee pulls something at the far end of the timeline that a big timeloop hinges on. The narration almost never just flat out lies like "the most important character" even when it's being sarcastic. Hell, maybe he gives John his clown problem, resulting in the harlequin prototyping, resulting in Jack wearing an ultra-colourful outfit he detests enough to rip it off. We really haven't seen much of an explanation for John's clown issues yet, beyond possibly the Jack doll, or maybe prophetic nightmares, but neither of those really come from anywhere and there's no time loop to explain them.

Which would actually fit the way Hussie writes, 'cause it lets him repeat a couple of ideas. The Black Queen took off her ring because the trolls prototyped something she would not allow in her image, and Terezi facilitated Dave's artistic endeavors via time loop.

I don't really think this is what happens, but it's an idea that got into my head today. I DO think that Gamzee is pulling something very close to the furthest point in the timeline though.

[Premmy]

I think Gamzee pulls something at the far end of the timeline that a big timeloop hinges on. The narration almost never just flat out lies like "the most important character" even when it's being sarcastic. Hell, maybe he gives John his clown problem, resulting in the harlequin prototyping, resulting in Jack wearing an ultra-colourful outfit he detests enough to rip it off.
We really haven't seen much of an explanation for John's clown issues yet, beyond possibly the Jack doll, or maybe prophetic nightmares, but neither of those really come from anywhere and there's no time loop to explain them.

Which would actually fit the way Hussie writes, 'cause it lets him repeat a couple of ideas. The Black Queen took off her ring because the trolls prototyped something she would not allow in her image, and Terezi facilitated Dave's artistic endeavors via time loop.

I don't really think this is what happens, but it's an idea that got into my head today. I DO think that Gamzee is pulling something very close to the furthest point in the timeline though.

While I like this idea, It has to bring up some further significance than just jack's outfit because Jack was going to rebel against the queen anyway, as that's his thing

[BitVyper]

While I like this idea, It has to bring up some further significance than just jack's outfit because Jack was going to rebel against the queen anyway, as that's his thing

Well, in some sessions it is. He's always rebellious, but obviously he's not always going to turn against her the same way WV won't always raise a rebellion. In the troll session, he was in a position to win because Aradia had weakened the queen significantly. In the human session, he just plain got fed up and did something stupid that very nearly got him killed.

Also, even if he would rebel for other reasons, he wouldn't necessarily end up with the ring, which is the big thing.

[IHateMakingNames]

In the kids' session Jack succeeded because of the bunny.

[Art of Hilt]

this update

Oh god
Oh man
Oh god

Gamzee is the Bard of Rage

HE DID MORE DAMAGE TO THE BLACK KING THAN FUCKING VRISKA

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII T

[MuMu]

Karkat's reactions just keep getting sadder... :(

I mean, goddamnit
CCG: FEFERI, I'M SORRY.
CCG: IT WAS MY FAULT, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
PCC: Sorry for w)(at??
CCG: FOR
CCG: I
CCG: I CAN'T DO THIS
CCG: IT'S TOO MUCH FOR ME, I'M SORRY.

:( :( :(

[BitVyper]

In the kids' session Jack succeeded because of the bunny.

Yes. He did.

The bunny is not why he rebelled.

Edit: And I'm back to being terrified.

[Art of Hilt]

CCG: BEFORE I GO
CCG: EVERYONE SHOULD ALSO KNOW ERIDAN HAD A COMPLETE SHITHIVE MELTDOWN TOO
CCG: HE'S GOING AROUND KILLING PEOPLE WITH HIS MAGIC WAND
CCG: SO KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR HIM.
CCG: IF I RUN INTO HIM AGAIN, I'M...
CCG: I DON'T EVEN KNOW.
CCG: HE BETTER PRAY TO ALL HIS MURDERED ANGELS IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

He just saw Eridan kill two of his friends and knock out a high powered psychic.
Yet he thinks he still has a chance against him.
And yet when it comes to Gamzee, he still shits his pants.
jesus
fucking
christ

[Premmy]

Whelp, Fuck ME

[IHateMakingNames]

Due to him saying he'll try to revive the dead people, my hope for Tavros has risen a bit.

Chances of something being in the horn pile?

[Locke cole]

this update

Oh god
Oh man
Oh god

Gamzee is the Bard of Rage

HE DID MORE DAMAGE TO THE BLACK KING THAN FUCKING VRISKA

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII T

MORE DAMAGE THAN FUCKING METEORS.

[BitVyper]

I bet Nepeta read the memo and gave Karkat the benefit of some belief.

[Arhra]

Oh Karkat, your terror is delicious to me.

[Fifthfiend]

f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5

[BitVyper]

Typing it here doesn't actually refresh the page.

[POS Industries]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/doctor3.jpg

[Fifthfiend]

Typing it here doesn't actually refresh the page.

f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5 f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5 f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5. f5f5f5f, f5f5f5f5f5f5'f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5!

[Locke cole]

f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f8f5f5f8f8f8f8f8f8f8
888888888888888888888888888888

[Art of Hilt]

people f5ing

ha ha ha ha ha
man if only you guys had a computer program that'll check for updates for you that'd be convenient huh (http://mspachan.net/art/res/10405+50.html)

[Locke cole]

Haha.

Now what do you have in that magic box for Mac users?

[Art of Hilt]

apparently the programmer is working on it but so far this is your best available alternative until he gets that done (http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?32592-F5stuck-RSS-Client-Save-Your-F5-Key) as far as i know
which kind of seems a bit complicated though sorry

[BitVyper]

ha ha ha ha ha
man if only you guys had a computer program that'll check for updates for you that'd be convenient huh (http://mspachan.net/art/res/10405+50.html)

Nope. 'Cause I'd still be there refreshing on the off chance that the program was late, or missed something. Even if it was utterly perfect every time.

f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5 f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5 f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5. f5f5f5f, f5f5f5f5f5f5'f5 f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5f5 f5f5f5!

honk

HONK

[stefan]

Haha.

Now what do you have in that magic box for Mac users?

Derision and and comedy for your poor choice of computing technology.

[Fifthfiend]

Derision and and comedy for your poor choice of computing technology.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/fifthfiend/emoticons/smug.gif

[Krylo]

HE DID MORE DAMAGE TO THE BLACK KING THAN FUCKING VRISKA

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII T

CCG: REMEMBER WHAT HE DID TO THE BLACK KING.
CCG: NOBODY COULD EXPLAIN IT, AND THEN HE JUST WENT BACK TO SPACING OUT FOR THE REST OF THE BATTLE.
CCG: I MEAN SERIOUSLY, WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT.
CCG: I DON'T EVEN THINK THE KING COULD FUCKING BELIEVE IT, FRANKLY.
CCG: DID ANYONE'S ATTACK DO AS MUCH DAMAGE? I DON'T THINK SO.
CCG: I DON'T EVEN THINK VRISKA'S DID, ALTHOUGH IT'S HARD TO SAY SINCE THAT WAS THE KNOCKOUT BLOW.

[mauve]

Welp, I'm suitably terrified beyond all belief now, what with Gamzee going crazy and poor Karkat breaking down and faint noises coming from the pile of bodies just behind him and a probably-super-pissed-and-most-likely-blind Sollux ready to wake up and demand revenge at any minute from anything that moves. Thank you Hussie.

[POS Industries]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/1294119293530.gif

[Dracorion]

Future Gamzee knows where you live.

And I just pissed in my pants.

EDIT: He's also a diabolical genius.

[Art of Hilt]

CCG: I CAN'T
CCG: I CAN'T EVEN TYPE HER NAME
CCG: SHE WAS MY FRIEND
CCG: SHE WAS MY REALLY *GOOD* FRIEND AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL TO DO NOW THAT SHE'S GONE.
CCG: I'M SO UPSET, I'M JUST COMPLETELY FREAKING OUT IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.

;_________________________________________________ _;

I ADMIT IT
WHEN I SAID "KARKAT<>KANAYA"
I WAS SHIPPING A PLATONIC RELATIONSHIP UNIRONICALLY
They were such bros. Suuuuch broooos.

e- maybe i should shove in some extra underscores in that emoticon for more emotion

[Locke cole]

I... I think that particular line was about Fef, actually.

But I do think that he felt the same way with Kanaya.

[Art of Hilt]

He already mentioned Feferi when he said "I THOUGHT YOU LOVED HER".
And then he says, "And also" before talking about his *GOOD* friend.
So I'm pretty sure he's talking about Kanaya there.

also jesus eridan is such a fucking sleazy piece of shit
slimiest fucking bastard i swear to god

[Locke cole]

Ah, you're right.

Also; I noticed that the "angels" appear to be winged serpents. Not only does that have angelic connotations, it means that all the consorts we've seen are still all reptilian/amphibian.

[Aldurin]

I want to say Gamzee is Lord English, but he doesn't fit in that huge overcoat and he probably has a different ultimate role.

What'll be really scary is if Gamzee leaves and then suicides on his Quest Bed.

[Locke cole]

Why would his questbed be on the asteroid, though?

And isn't dream-Gamzee dead?

[Aldurin]

Why would his questbed be on the asteroid, though?

And isn't dream-Gamzee dead?

They have the teleporter-thingies, I doubt it would be too hard to return to his carnival world.

And . . . ya Dream Gamzee should be dead, but it seems like any death on the quest bed causes a resurrection of the dreamself in God Tier form.

Also I could see some fans making a flash game where Karkat is in a survival-horror situation.

Also Karkat needs to check that horn pile.

[Locke cole]

And . . . ya Dream Gamzee should be dead, but it seems like any death on the quest bed causes a resurrection of the dreamself in God Tier form.

Wait what?

[Marc v4.0]

I think that's a refrence to Aradia, but she was a special case to begin with because she didn't have a real body at the start of the game anyway

[Aldurin]

Wait what?

I think the mechanic of it is that the dreamself is sent to the quest bed, dead or not, and "resurrected" with the new powers. I may be wrong, and that losing the dreamself means you're screwed.

Also did we ever get any confirmation of dream Gamzee's death besides the the implication that his dreamself along with the others. Kinda like how Tavros was saying he was too busy "sky frolicking" to notice Prospit being destroyed, so it seems likely that Tavros is now in his dreamself with a huge freakin' chest wound.

[Geminex]

Oh fuck yes. Those last two pages were awesome.

Though Karkat considers fef his REALLY GOOD friend?
Who knew?

[Arcanum]

I think the mechanic of it is that the dreamself is sent to the quest bed, dead or not, and "resurrected" with the new powers. I may be wrong, and that losing the dream-self means you're screwed.

The standard mechanic of the questbed/god-tier is when your real-self dies while sleeping on the questbed on your planet, you are then "resurrected" as your dream-self, with god-tier powers/clothing. This is the standard method for standard players.

With Aradia, and Sollux for that matter, special scenarios arise because it seems like Sburb gives every player a chance to reach god-tier, no matter what. Sollux had to die as he entered the Medium, it was ingrained in the Alpha Time Line, so Sgrub/Sburb gave him two dream-selves, so that one of those dream-selves could function as his real-self in case he ever reached appoint where he could achieve god-tier.

Meanwhile with Aradia, who has an even more fucked up special case than Sollux, had a specific method for attaining god-tier, and it was only by fulfilling what was required for the alpha time line to progress that she could attain god-tier, which is in line with her role as the Maid of Time.

As far as we are aware, Aradia and Sollux are the only special cases, and the other players must follow the standard scenario for reaching god-tier, which is basically impossible because all of their dream-selves are dead now.


edit--
Oh fuck yes. Those last two pages were awesome.

Though Karkat considers fef his REALLY GOOD friend?
Who knew?

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Kanaya there.

[Geminex]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Kanaya there.
Derp derp
Yeah, what am I thinking. Thanks.

Do you guys really think the revival's gonna happen via dreamself? Cause I can't imagine that. You saw the green blast that took out derse and prospit respectively. Y'think anything would survive that?

[Flarecobra]

THAT wasn't creepy at all. [/sarcasm]

[Geminex]

Hey it was awesome. Bard of Rage Gamzee >>>>>>> Permanently High Gamzee.
Especially when you don't know which one you're talking to.

[Flarecobra]

Which is why it creeps me out.

EDIT: And I can't beleve I forgot about this.

http://www.unitedlegends.net/Web%20Images/Left%204%20Dead/L4D2/_w/Left-4-Dead-2-Dark-Carnival-Campaign_jpg.jpg


All we need now are the troll's heads on the 5 bodies in the poster...

[PCD]

Ugh, I was sort of snickering about how everyone was freaking out about Gamzee--like, I found him spooky, but wasn't personally scared of him at all. Then I had a Psychonauts-type dream about going inside his goddamn head and him trying to kill me with his goddamn brain and I woke up shaking. Dammit.

I think we just need to find a way to make sure Karkat gets a hug.

Anyhow, this isn't really relevant, at all, I thought I'd quote it anyway.
TA: iin order for the vii2iion2 two be riight, that ha2 two happen, and the uniiver2e wiill make 2ure iit wiill.
TA: iit2 kiind of liike how a prophet earn2 hii2 2triipe2, by beiing bliind, liike how an angel earn2 iit2 wiing2.
GC: WH4TS 4N 4NG3L
TA: 2ome terriible mythiical demon.
TA: wiith the2e awful feathery wiing2.
GC: Y1K3S
TA: paradox 2pace u2e2 them two u2her iin the end.
GC: HOW DO3S 1T KNOW WH4T 4NG3L TO US3... ........

[IHateMakingNames]

Anyone know how close Gamzee from 42 minutes into the future is to the critical moment?

[Arcanum]

Anyone know how close Gamzee from 42 minutes into the future is to the critical moment?

This all happened shortly after Terezi ran away after watching Doomed Dave die, which was at 3:14 before the critical moment (I think). So Gamzee is at anywhere between 2:20 to 2:32, depending on how long everything took.

[MuMu]

So, hey, since everyone is discovering that their titles aren't as meaningless as previously thought, maybe Karkat's "try to revive them" might involve his blood? Since it's of such an otherwordly pigmentation, maybe it has some sort of healing property? Or maybe he can use it like the vampires from the WoD...

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8050/gamzeehappy.gif

[Locke cole]

So, hey, since everyone is discovering that their titles aren't as meaningless as previously thought, maybe Karkat's "try to revive them" might involve his blood? Since it's of such an otherwordly pigmentation, maybe it has some sort of healing property? Or maybe he can use it like the vampires from the WoD...

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8050/gamzeehappy.gif

No. He's going to attempt the universal remedy that princes/princesses of Prospit/Derse can do to revive people with living dreamselves. All he needs to do is kiss them.

[Fifthfiend]

And in doing so THEN ACCIDENTALLY heal them with his blood, and also his feelings

and then grow A WING

just one

WITH ANGEL FEATHERS

[Archbio]

Karkat is Jegus in Purgatory.

[Fifthfiend]

But Kanaya... died for his sins...

OMGDEEP

[Premmy]

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8050/gamzeehappy.gif

There is nothing great about that.

[Archbio]

There is nothing great about that.

The picture got decent height.

[IHateMakingNames]

I wonder who the people 42 minute Future Gamzee is going to meet, and who he is currently with.

I assume they are all trolls to be killed (And currently dead troll), though initially thought Jack, Lord English, or the kids.

[Overcast]

If his lusus could see him now I imagine it would be quite upset.

[Locke cole]

Update: Oh my!

[Premmy]

With Aradia, and Sollux for that matter, special scenarios arise because it seems like Sburb gives every player a chance to reach god-tier, no matter what. Sollux had to die as he entered the Medium, it was ingrained in the Alpha Time Line, so Sgrub/Sburb gave him two dream-selves, so that one of those dream-selves could function as his real-self in case he ever reached appoint where he could achieve god-tier.

Meanwhile with Aradia, who has an even more fucked up special case than Sollux, had a specific method for attaining god-tier, and it was only by fulfilling what was required for the alpha time line to progress that she could attain god-tier, which is in line with her role as the Maid of Time.

As far as we are aware, Aradia and Sollux are the only special cases, and the other players must follow the standard scenario for reaching god-tier, which is basically impossible because all of their dream-selves are dead now.


I honestly wonder how much time shenanigans has to do with Aradia and Sollux's dream-selves situation. It really just seems to me to just be related to their own special natures. Like, obviously Aradia was dead, but she wasn't "dead-dead" at the beginning of the game, and she also didn't sleep, presumably being a ghost and all, so her set-up just seems like something that could reasonably result from her status.

Sollux? man I just have no idea. If I had to hazard a guess, though I'd think it has to something to do with his ability to see the future.

People who awake on Prospit/Derse before starting sgrub/sburb can see the future in the clouds, like Jade. But Sollux could already see the future, due to vision two-fold, probably due to his already having two dream-selves, essentially doubling up on Prospitian/Dersite clairvoyance and allowing him to have the visions/hear the voices while awake. Basically either he has vision twofold because he has two dream-selves, or he has two dream-selves because he has vision two-fold.

[PCD]

OH GODDAMN IT TEREZI TURN YOUR BACK ON THE BODY

[BitVyper]

You know, the hemospectrum covers all the colours of pool balls pretty good...

I mean, obviously it would, being a full spectrum, but you get the idea.

[Dracorion]

honk.

[Fifthfiend]

Terezi bout to get stabbed right in the back.

edit: why the fuck didn't the trolls ever build a bunch of handy fuckin' laptop and glasses-based computing devices such as the game makes it ridonkulously easy to do I mean COME ON, guys.

[Loyal]

Terezi bout to get stabbed right in the back.

edit: why the fuck didn't the trolls ever build a bunch of handy fuckin' laptop and glasses-based computing devices such as the game makes it ridonkulously easy to do I mean COME ON, guys.

They did. Terezi in particular has holo-projecting Pyrope glasses. I don't know why the trolls don't keep this sort of thing active at all times, god knows shit goes down often enough with them.

[POS Industries]

They did. Terezi in particular has holo-projecting Pyrope glasses. I don't know why the trolls don't keep this sort of thing active at all times, god knows shit goes down often enough with them.
They were, for reasons Karkat can't fathom, compelled to store the entirety of their respective inventories within the chests scattered around the meteor.

[MuMu]

We saw Eridan using one an update ago and apparently Gamzee is wearing one right now, how else would he make Karkat shit his pants without being on the other side of the room if he hadn't one?

Althought if he were on the other side of the room it might've been ever more terrifying...

Maybe the Trolls pulled a Videogame Sequel and discarded most of their cool equipment for no logical reason.

edit: oh right, the chests.

[Locke cole]

Oh god.

Hussie is a mastermind. Less than 100 pixels added to the scene in the bottom right and he's turned a lackluster "Terezi starts investigating" sequence into yet another scene of pure terror. And we don't even know if he's actually there.

[Art of Hilt]

honk

[Aldurin]

I've been thinking this over, categorizing the trolls.

Safe:
Karkat
Terezi
Vriska
Eridan (safe-ish since he's starting fights).
Sollux (but KO'd)
Aradia

Dead:
Tavros (deader)
Kanaya
Feferi
+Terezi

Unaccounted:
Nepeta
Gamzee (fuck that he's totally flipping out).
Equius

I think Gamzee gets the scratch marks from fighting Nepeta for some reason. Equius I'm betting is Eridan's next victim.

Updating my troll-tracking list in anticipation of the update.

[Locke cole]

You know what'd be really scary? If Gamzee does not attack Terezi here. We're just left wondering which rock he's hiding under for this whole sequence.

[Art of Hilt]

i like how the last three panels were singularly about The Three Crazy Motherfuckers On The Loose
all with their distinct flavors of batshit insane

[Flarecobra]

Club to the back anyone?

[BitVyper]

I guess you could say Gamzee is really.... honked off.

[Aldurin]

Can someone translate my prediction list to the Midnight Crew version when they were dealing with the Felt?

[Locke cole]

aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAATEREZIGETOUTOFTHERETHESITUATIONIS COMPLETELYDIFFERENTHANYOUTHINKAAAAAAAAAAA!

[POS Industries]

If Terezi is able to smell Vriska's fairy vapor trail and Eridan's magic, I'm pretty sure she'd notice Gamzee's presence in the immediate vicinity. Plus his horns are honking off in the distance, so it's a safe bet that Terezi is safe for the time being.

Besides, from a narrative standpoint, she's got Vriska to deal with right now.

[Locke cole]

There was also this unsettling piece of inner monologue:

Poor guy. You will have to seek him out shortly and offer him protection.

She plans on going and looking for Gamzee.

[POS Industries]

She plans on going and looking for Gamzee.
Yeah, shortly. But not immediately.

Justice must be served first!

[Geminex]

ohmygodohmygodohmygodterezidontdoit

who will i imitate if you die?

[Marc v4.0]

If she can smell Lies, I'm sure she can smell Insanity as well

[POS Industries]

It's Gamzee, though.

He was never sane to begin with.

[Geminex]

Terezi's potential honking demise aside, her smelling both Eridan and Vriska... Seems to indicate that there's gonna be some sort of showdown between the two. I mean, I doubt they're glubbing about their feelings up there.

[POS Industries]

Their smells are coming from different directions.

[Locke cole]

Forensics team deployed!

[Fifthfiend]

If she can smell Lies, I'm sure she can smell Insanity as well

It's Gamzee, though.

He was never sane to begin with.

Here's hoping she can smelll Rage.

[Geminex]

Their smells are coming from different directions.

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005267

It says 'not far from that'. Kinda implies that they're close to each other. Hence, STRIFE.

Or maybe Eridan's trying to recruit her?

[Overcast]

She probably can't smell rage if she doesn't already detect it. After all I don't think he can get any more rageful than he is right now.

Meanwhile, even if he does try to recruit Vriska I can't imagine he'll have much success. In fact considering his charismatic track record he will have no success. None.

[Specterbane]

I'm kinda surprised, I expected to find a CSI joke already drawn out with Terezi and her shades.

That being said, thanks to Karkat's reaction every honk is sheer terror. And Eridan is probably going after Vriska because she snubbed his affections, but I suppose he may still try to recruit her as a way to attempt to rekindle some kind of flame (Red), or show that he's always been the best rival to her or something (Black). Remember, always bet on black.

[Loyal]

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005267

It says 'not far from that'. Kinda implies that they're close to each other. Hence, STRIFE.

Or maybe Eridan's trying to recruit her?Y'know what would be a genuinely, honest-to-god awesome moment for Vriska?

She meets Eridan, tells him she wants to kill Jack, he tells her it's hopeless and berates her for muscling in on his domain. And then she goes off on him for his interpretation of Hope in much the same way she did for Tavros' self-confidence.

[Specterbane]

Y'know what would be a genuinely, honest-to-god awesome moment for Vriska?

She meets Eridan, tells him she wants to kill Jack, he tells her it's hopeless and berates her for muscling in on his domain. And then she goes off on him for his interpretation of Hope in much the same way she did for Tavros' self-confidence.

And that would be why people love Vriska despite being an unrelenting Bitch, and deep down people want to be able to tell people off like that. It's just like unlike everyone else she has no conscience, it was her first victim in a life of murder.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Who? Aradia? At least that's how I remember it.

[Specterbane]

I was thinking in a metaphorical sense. But her literal first victim would've been some random non-story-important troll. Aradia was the first "friend" she killed, after crippling Tavros.

[Donomni]

I'm kinda surprised, I expected to find a CSI joke already drawn out with Terezi and her shades.

I'm waiting for the moment she tries to "enhance the image" of the crime scene by squishing a horrified plush face onto the scene.

[Art of Hilt]

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OH GOD TEREZI HOW COULD YOU
rip inspector berrybreath ;____;

[Amake]

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/immortalpictures/csiparadoxspace.gif
I could not find a picture of the trolls' asteroid for the final shot. But I'm sure everyone has it in their mind. :)

[Flarecobra]

Wonder where she keeps getting the Scalemates.

And where one can...aquire them.

[Viridis]

And where one can...aquire them.
This person (http://eyes5.deviantart.com/art/Scalemate-plushie-194180469?q=boost:popular%20scalemate&qo=0) plans on making a tutorial

[Aldurin]

Now the defining moment about Tav's dreamself.

[Loyal]

This person (http://eyes5.deviantart.com/art/Scalemate-plushie-194180469?q=boost:popular%20scalemate&qo=0) plans on making a tutorial

Eyes5 is basically the best. (http://www.metroidhat.com/gallery/cloth.html)

[Locke cole]

Now the defining moment about Tav's dreamself.

Definitive proof, you mean?

Watch there be another sudden cut to, say, Nepeta.

And her demise.

[CelesJessa]

Now the defining moment about Tav's dreamself.

Unless Gamzee gets to her before she can kiss him.

[Aldurin]

Unless Gamzee gets to her before she can kiss him.

Either way we'll tell whether or not he's screwed.

[Fifthfiend]

This person (http://eyes5.deviantart.com/art/Scalemate-plushie-194180469?q=boost:popular%20scalemate&qo=0) plans on making a tutorial

I could never bear to spend hours making something that I'm inevitably going to give in to the urge to murder in the most lurid, fetishistic manner possible.

deep down people want to be able to tell people off like that.

Deep down I want people to deep down want to be able to tell off people well and intelligently in circumstances that actually require courage, but deeper down than that I know that you're right that most people are so spineless that even in their deepest hopes they only aspire to the bravery required to bully insecure cripples, because it's utterly beyond them to even conceive of the possibility of ever overcoming their own weakness and fear to confront someone stronger than themselves for the sake of doing what's right, as Tavros courageously did.

[CelesJessa]

I could never bear to spend hours making something that I'm inevitably going to give in to the urge to murder in the most lurid, fetishistic manner possible.

I can! I will totally make one of those once a tutorial is up.

[Fifthfiend]

Also the plump-snouted, felt-gouged, cotton-spurting corpses hanging out my window would probably become a concern to my neighbors

[Aldurin]

I don't know whether to stay tense or have a gag reflex.

[Dracorion]

PUCKER UP TAVROS.

[Flarecobra]

Also the plump-snouted, felt-gouged, cotton-spurting corpses hanging out my window would probably become a concern to my neighbors

Any more then normal?

[Arcanum]

Pucker up Tavros!

I'm actually finding this quite hilarious.

edit-- fuck Drac beat me to it. Goddammit

[Grimpond]

oh sweet jegus this is hilarious

[Fifthfiend]

KISS HER

KISS HER YOU CORPSE

GET UP THERE AND KISS THAT GIRL

[Specterbane]

Deep down I want people to deep down want to be able to tell off people well and intelligently in circumstances that actually require courage, but deeper down than that I know that you're right that most people are so spineless that even in their deepest hopes they only aspire to the bravery required to bully insecure cripples, because it's utterly beyond them to even conceive of the possibility of ever overcoming their own weakness and fear to confront someone stronger than themselves for the sake of doing what's right, as Tavros courageously did.

Exactly, haven't you been to the DMV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOfQEkCY9XE)? Or for that matter called the HelpDesk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-_51OsaaSY)?

[Overcast]

Helpdesk doesn't seem so much like bullying as much as the apathetic backdraft of having to deal with complete morons on a daily basis. I've seen it around here as well.

[BitVyper]

Also the plump-snouted, felt-gouged, cotton-spurting corpses hanging out my window would probably become a concern to my neighbors

That's why you move into a treehouse.

[Fifthfiend]

Welp, looks like I have m'next minecraft project.

[Grimpond]

? what

[Bard The 5th LW]

honk (http://tindeck.com/listen/klyo)

[Loyal]

Y'know what we need amidst the slasher-ness? More Daddy Droog.

http://www.deviantart.com/download/195144934/m0re_daddy_dr00g_by_sei_kou_ki-d386msm.png (http://sei-kou-ki.deviantart.com/art/m0re-daddy-dr00g-195144934)

[BitVyper]

Don't worry, Terezi; I'm pretty sure you're about to get choked anyway.

[Locke cole]

Hm. You know, Tavros's Dreamself could be alive. There's the possibility that he could have sKY fROLICKED down to the Battlefield, or that his dreamself winks out of existence when his "real" self is awake, like John's did when it awoke (Page of Breath).

I'm basing this entirely on the fact that he didn't seem to notice Prospit's destruction. Both Karkat and Terezi had to explain the situation to him, and both times he had to ask for confirmation. For some reason he didn't even see Jack or his Green Miles, so he only has their word that his dreamself is dead, since I think only Feferi ever broke the sleeping ban.

Granted, the chances of his dreamself being alive is still very low, but the possibility exists; it's not like with Feferi, where we know both selves are dead.

[POS Industries]

You make a good point. The only dreamselves whose deaths have been visually confirmed were the ones who were shown to be asleep when Jack attacked their respective planets: Karkat, Feferi, and Nepeta.

Other than that, everyone's been following Karkat's order to not sleep, so there's no way to know for sure.

[Art of Hilt]

The zoom in to Tavros' puckering lips...
It is the most glorious sequence.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Oh god each time I clicked that forward button I laughed anew.

[Doc ock rokc]

Hm. You know, Tavros's Dreamself could be alive. There's the possibility that he could have sKY fROLICKED down to the Battlefield, or that his dreamself winks out of existence when his "real" self is awake, like John's did when it awoke (Page of Breath).

I'm basing this entirely on the fact that he didn't seem to notice Prospit's destruction. Both Karkat and Terezi had to explain the situation to him, and both times he had to ask for confirmation. For some reason he didn't even see Jack or his Green Miles, so he only has their word that his dreamself is dead, since I think only Feferi ever broke the sleeping ban.

Granted, the chances of his dreamself being alive is still very low, but the possibility exists; it's not like with Feferi, where we know both selves are dead.
but the dream world is destroyed. They would just blink into empty space.

[Locke cole]

but the dream world is destroyed. They would just blink into empty space.

Prospit was a real actual location. You of course know that. Unless you're worried about Tavros potentially waking up in the vacuum of space.

If that's the case, remember that in Homestuck, Space is not a vacuum. People can survive there quite comfortably. Heck, Jade decided that space was a better place to raise frogs than her cold planet, so space is even temperate.

[Doc ock rokc]

I know prospit was a real location (i just forgot the name at the time) And i was just trying a theory.

[Locke cole]

I know prospit was a real location (i just forgot the name at the time) And i was just trying a theory.

Sorry. "Dream World" carried connotations that made me misinterpret your understanding of the situation.

But yeah, it's not quite like that one episode of Dragon Ball Z, where a resurrected character would just die in space due to the planet's destruction. Space is actually quite comfy in Homestuck.

[Archbio]

If that's the case, remember that in Homestuck, Space is not a vacuum. People can survive there quite comfortably. Heck, Jade decided that space was a better place to raise frogs than her cold planet, so space is even temperate.

Isn't that just within the realms of the insipisphere?

[Premmy]

aren't derse/prospit IN the insipisphere?

[Archbio]

Yes, but presumably Earth and Alternia aren't? I mean I assumed that these parts of the Homestuck universes were implied to be more like the real world than the "Medium" stuff.

[Geminex]

Wow. Karkat. Pretty, uh, passionate there, buddy.

[Art of Hilt]

Man Terezi's antics with Tavros have been so hilarious.

And then we get to Karkat and he's trying so hard to bring his *GOOD* bro back to life and tears are streaming desperately down his face and it's just...

):

[Amake]

Karkat is always passionate. Passionately desperate at the moment. Deliberately, intensely, heartbrokenly desperate. I wonder if that revive kissy thing is guaranteed to work.

Also, badass bloody tears.

Also also, I guess Kanaya will know the color of his blood now.

If it works.

Topic shift edit:Funny how every time Karkat shows his colors it seems to prompt a heartfelt moment with whoever he's with. Well, it seems likely this time, and the last time was with Troll Jack Noir who cut his own hand in something approaching a primal ritual of communion and blood brotherhood.

[BitVyper]

Also also, I guess Kanaya will know the color of his blood now.

I think everyone does now. I'm pretty sure I recall both Vriska and Equius having some dialogue that at least suggested it had become common knowledge.

Edit: But if it works, Kanaya will be revived elsewhere probably.

[Amake]

So much for that subplot. >_>
But can you locate that log? Cause I don't remember anything of the sort. Recent re-read notwithstanding.

[Art of Hilt]

It was in Alterniabound. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004692) Play as Vriska and talk to Equius.
I think the idea is that it was the source of his self-loathing because he believed everyone would turn on him when they find out, and that even though they didn't turn on him when they found out, Karkat still holds on to that self-loathing and that's the real source of his problems, not his blood.

[Amake]

Huh, I assumed the low-class slob referred to there was Aradia. We did see him begging her to boss him around I think, and it wouldn't be beyond Vriska to find out about it somehow. And of course shatter his shame globes about it.

[BitVyper]

Nah, in Alterniabound Equius actually tries to get Karkat to boss him around. That's what Vriska is referring to.

[Locke cole]

And then there's the line where insane!Gamzee calls Karkat a "punchline-blooded motherfucker". If Gamzee knows about it, well...

[Amake]

Yeah I read that as Gamzee realizing no matter what color his blood was, the reveal was going to be a punchline. Since among Gamzee's newfound mad clown powers I assumed was a skill for appraising the humor value of a given topic.

I remember that log with Karkat and Equius now though where I guess I should have known something was up.

In closing the current page is still pretty damn sweet. There's so much love and so much fear in Karkat's kiss. Something is born and it's naked and bloody and screaming in pain and beautiful. And then there's Terezi.
*Fondly regards relation*

[Aldurin]

Terezi looks so close to puking during that.

[Locke cole]

Well, it is a pretty gruesome scene.

[Dracorion]

Also she's tasting his blood.

[Geminex]

But it is chocolatey.

[Loyal]

I'm pretty sure this is turning Terezi off chocolate forever.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Some people are just more comfortable with necrophilia than others.