Homesuck: Vriska Rising [Archive] - Page 29

Solid Snake

06-01-2011, 07:12 AM

It's just so...uneventful.
Given the importance of Karkat and Terezi you'd kind of hope that they'd actually have important death scenes, like, at least as much emphasis on their demise and the scenes leading up to their demise as characters like Kanaya, Tavros, Feferi and godforsaken Eridan.

What's funny is how in retrospect many of us complained and moaned about about those characters getting a raw deal in their death scenes, but I wish Karkat and Terezi had even that amount of marginal attention paid to them. No final conversations with the kids? No final thoughts shared amongst each other? Not even like a valiant standoff against Gamzee that Jack interrupts?

Of course I wouldn't put it past me for this to be a hint that the deaths aren't final, but even then, I'm not sure how to erase these deaths without the resolution feeling like a cop-out (or the whole sequence feeling like a waste of time.)

How exactly John plans the scratch with 'Karkat' remains to be seen, though. I thought Karkat had a pretty hefty role to come in that.

CelesJessa

06-01-2011, 07:58 AM

The update:

D:

Bard The 5th LW

06-01-2011, 10:05 AM

Aradia and Vriska are the only ones still alive then. Possibly Gamzee. Actually, I think Kanaya has a chance to, why bring her back if you're going to kill her again for no reason?

I'm still holding out hope that we'll get to see some other stuff with them later, like flashback material. Homestuck has never been particularly linear. What I really want more than anything is a Karkat/Gamzee showdown. If that happens I'll forgive this.

Loyal

06-01-2011, 10:17 AM

Oh. Huh.

I'm getting the impression John's going to make a Red Dwarf reference soon after he gets up.

And then it was revealed that the entirety of Homestuck was just the longest setup ever to say that line.

Aldurin

06-01-2011, 10:22 AM

Who does Gamzee kill next on his murder spree? Will Kanaya suddenly run up to kick Jack in the nuts too? Will Vriska somehow die from the impending ass-kicking? Tune in to the next update to find out.

But yeah now that Karkat and Terezi are dead it's pretty much guaranteed that the dream bubbles somehow play into them going back.

Arcanum

06-01-2011, 12:21 PM

Of course I wouldn't put it past me for this to be a hint that the deaths aren't final, but even then, I'm not sure how to erase these deaths without the resolution feeling like a cop-out (or the whole sequence feeling like a waste of time.)

How exactly John plans the scratch with 'Karkat' remains to be seen, though. I thought Karkat had a pretty hefty role to come in that.

Dream Bubbles.

Solid Snake

06-01-2011, 12:29 PM

Dream Bubbles.

But we're still left with the question of, why would Karkat actually want to assist John in facilitating the Scratch if the Scratch leads to the very circumstances that condemn the trolls to their demise and that specifically leads to Karkat and Terezi being killed by Jack's own machinations?

In Vriska's case I could see her rationalizing it as necessary to preserve the alpha timelines or because 'destiny demands it' or something, but I don't perceive Karkat as buying into that with similar vigor.

I guess what I'm saying is that it originally made sense to me back when I theorized that 'John meeting Karkat' meant that the Scratch would be a two-way sort of portal where the future-trolls were sent to the kid's timeline and Jack gets zapped to the past-trolls timeline. It even makes sense if the kids joined up with the future-trolls in the troll session. But if 'meeting Karkat again' is a matter of just seeing each other in the afterlife I can't really fathom why they'd be eager to manifest the conditions of the Scratch in the first place.

Bard The 5th LW

06-01-2011, 12:31 PM

We'll probably get the answer to that as it happens. Maybe Karkat just didn't know that he personally was going to die? I dunno.

But I don't see Dream Bubbles being a means of revival. They're all just ghosts sans Aradia and the dreamers.

Kim

06-01-2011, 12:34 PM

Actually, Karkat could totally have made those plans with John already. We don't know when Jack reaching their thing and when John's last convo with Karkat are relative each other on the timeline.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-01-2011, 12:38 PM

Actually, Karkat could totally have made those plans with John already. We don't know when Jack reaching their thing and when John's last convo with Karkat are relative each other on the timeline.

I dunno...John seemed awfully cheeryto be talking to Karkat right before he made the Scratch happen. From his perspective, If Karkat died to Jack almost immediately after, then his last talk with him would be "JOHN I AM GONNA DIE I HOPE YOU CAN SUCCEED AS A LEADER WHERE I FAILED". You'd think he would have more of a reaction from Karkat suddenly showing up again.

Unless John has completely flipped his shit and doesn't care about Karkat's fate by that point.

Kim

06-01-2011, 12:40 PM

I dunno...John seemed awfully cheeryto be talking to Karkat right before he made the Scratch happen. From his perspective, If Karkat died to Jack almost immediately after, then his last talk with him would be "JOHN I AM GONNA DIE I HOPE YOU CAN SUCCEED AS A LEADER WHERE I FAILED". You'd think he would have more of a reaction from Karkat suddenly showing up again.

You're assuming Karkat knew Jack was coming.

Solid Snake

06-01-2011, 12:44 PM

Actually, Karkat could totally have made those plans with John already. We don't know when Jack reaching their thing and when John's last convo with Karkat are relative each other on the timeline.

While this is definitely a possibility, I have to see that my kneejerk reaction would be disappointment in Andrew if that were the case. Not even so much because Terezi and Karkat died tragically, moreso that if that's the case I'd much prefer a chronological approach over the time-skipping.

It'd have a much greater visceral impact on the audience if we saw the full scope of Karkat and John's plans, saw Terezi and Karkat reunite, spent time with them and then Jack shows up. We'd simultaneously feel more closure for the characters (as we'd actually have a few final moments with them, even if we didn't know at the time they were final) and we'd be far more shocked and appalled by their deaths.

As is, the recent progression of the narrative has made it ever-more difficult to actually feel any emotional resonance with the loss of characters because so much is happening off-screen. Filling in the gaps after the fact won't have the same effect. Why would we care about the details of Karkat and John's plans if we already know that Karkat and Terezi will die and those plans will fail? By contrast, if we actually had the chance to invest in their schemes and if we truly believed they could succeed, the intended impact of the tragedy would be far stronger.

Mind you this, all criticism only applies if your hypothetical explanation is accurate, and knowing Andrew he has something else up his sleeve. Or maybe Karkat's plan even relied on him and the other trolls dying to have its effect (though all the dead being able to return to the land of the living through some deus ex machina would seem an exploitative copout.)
As much as I'd like to criticize Andrew I've certainly learned my lesson from the Kanaya 'resurrection,' he probably has a plan. Won't stop me from voicing an immediate reaction if I feel he's misstepped, though.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-01-2011, 12:52 PM

You're assuming Karkat knew Jack was coming.

Ahh, that's true. I kinda figure Terezi would tell the rest about it. But I guess there's the possibility she'd keep it secret since there's nothing to do about it and panicking would be pointless.

rpgdemon

06-01-2011, 01:17 PM

It'd have a much greater visceral impact on the audience if we saw the full scope of Karkat and John's plans, saw Terezi and Karkat reunite, spent time with them and then Jack shows up. We'd simultaneously feel more closure for the characters (as we'd actually have a few final moments with them, even if we didn't know at the time they were final) and we'd be far more shocked and appalled by their deaths.

As is, the recent progression of the narrative has made it ever-more difficult to actually feel any emotional resonance with the loss of characters because so much is happening off-screen. Filling in the gaps after the fact won't have the same effect. Why would we care about the details of Karkat and John's plans if we already know that Karkat and Terezi will die and those plans will fail? By contrast, if we actually had the chance to invest in their schemes and if we truly believed they could succeed, the intended impact of the tragedy would be far stronger.

Well, I think that it ends up being two different feelings that we could have gotten, when we see the plan, if we see the plan.

Had the plan been revealed, then Karkat's death, we'd have a sudden shock, were John has no idea that he'll only be seeing Karkat's corpse, if they ever meet up.

If Karkat dies, then the plan gets revealed, we see it in the light of something that'll never come to pass, and just a sort of sad affair for the viewers.

Which makes me think that the plan isn't actually what we sort of vaguely have an idea about thinking it is, and instead the reveal of the plan will be something that surprises us, such as all meeting in the dream bubbles or something, since they're outside the universe that will be reset, presumably.

IHateMakingNames

06-01-2011, 01:40 PM

I'm more interested in the banner at this point. I don't really care how Vriska will get away again while everyone else dies. I want to know what SS is doing.

rpgdemon

06-01-2011, 01:52 PM

Burning the place. Remember, from back when we were there before?

Bard The 5th LW

06-01-2011, 02:08 PM

Homestuck isn't a particularly linear story. We may still get an idea of whats going on.

John's 'see ya soon' line does sorta make this weird though. I guess Karkat may have just finished planning with John, which makes it pretty depressing.

IHateMakingNames

06-01-2011, 03:02 PM

Burning the place. Remember, from back when we were there before?

I remember it ending here (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005525), and nothing about SS burning down the place.

Flarecobra

06-01-2011, 03:08 PM

But looking at the banner, he's pouring oil on the ground... Either way, I don't think it's good.

rpgdemon

06-01-2011, 03:15 PM

I remember it ending here (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005525), and nothing about SS burning down the place.

What the heck, how did I know that SS was going to burn the place down then?

It was totally mentioned somewhere in comic, because I knew with complete certainty that SS was going to start burning the place, before he got out the oil.

Edit: Ahah!

http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005527

Revising Ocelot

06-01-2011, 03:24 PM

On an unrelated tangent to SS preparing to burn Scratch's house down (WITH THE LEMONS), Is it just me or is the main MSPA website loading incredibly slowly for anyone else? Been like that for a few days now for me. Takes roughly 2 minutes for me to load a Scratch banner, and about 1 minute for rpgdemon's page.

It's probably BT playing the grand game of Silly Buggers with some obscure port throttling or whatever (I couldn't get sites like Imgur or Megaupload to open AT ALL in the early part of last month), but I need to check.

rpgdemon

06-01-2011, 03:37 PM

Going quickly for me.

Flarecobra

06-01-2011, 03:37 PM

Not getting any slowdown here.

Revising Ocelot

06-01-2011, 03:45 PM

Right. Angry phone calls tomorrow, then.

Would switch ISPs if I could, but it wasn't my choice to switch to BT. And the line -is- faster than when it was TalkTalk, the worst ISP company to ever exist - again, not my choice to go with them. Problem is the original decision to switch from TalkTalk wasn't because of bad line rates, it was because SOMEONE thought that to switch their e-mail account they had to change ISPs. Now it's on a 6 month bloody no-change contract. Rage.

Anyway, where were we? Discussing my Bullshit Theory Of Dave Becoming A Brainless Feathery Asshole And Performing Time Shenanigans To Resurrect People Post-Scratch, based on absolutely nothing.

Bard The 5th LW

06-01-2011, 04:06 PM

Im pretty sure Scratch mentioned that Slick was setting the place on fire, and that he was in no hurry to do anything about it.

PCD

06-01-2011, 07:26 PM

And here we confirm the reason why I've stopped giving a fuck. Hussie pretty clearly does not give a shit anymore, and as a result, I have for a long time been wondering why I even pretend to. It's been evident for months now that he'd just rushing through the whole thing and finds his whole fanbase stupid as fuck for even going so far as to give a shit. That's how I see all these anticlimaxes; it feels like Hussie is just laughing at anyone who was actually caring.

Kerensky287

06-01-2011, 07:33 PM

*Karkat and Terezi dead and bloody, killed by Noir*

anticlimaxes

???

PCD

06-01-2011, 07:39 PM

Fun fact: Shock Value Deaths are the most useless and stupid deaths ever used in any form of media ever.

Do you wanna hear someone talk about how an important character was killed offscreen? No. You wanna see the death, and know that they went down fighting, and that it was an important moment. But all you get is a death meant to make you go "oh nooooooo"

Loyal

06-01-2011, 07:45 PM

Does SS have the tiniest of tinysmiles, there? (http://mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005716)

POS Industries

06-01-2011, 08:02 PM

Welp, nothing to see here. We're in the doomed timeline created by Terezi's last coin flip. Everybody move along, nothing here matters.

rpgdemon

06-01-2011, 08:05 PM

Are we though? I mean, it's the one where Vriska won still, and there's no way she wouldn't win.

I never really got the doomed timelines based on coin flip thing, though.

Solid Snake

06-01-2011, 08:08 PM

Welp, nothing to see here. We're in the doomed timeline created by Terezi's last coin flip. Everybody move along, nothing here matters.

I'm not so sure.

Note the picture Scratch is looking at.

Note what Scratch says. "It's also logical, since there is essentially nothing new in paradox space. Everything that can happen is either a visual or substantive reproduction of something which has already transpired on a timeline, offshoot or otherwise."

Finally, see this. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005508)

It sounds as if Scratch is saying that Terezi and Karkat were destined to die a certain way in every timeline, and if Gamzee didn't do it in one (doomed) timeline, Jack was going to do it and create the exact same scene in another (alpha) timeline.

POS Industries

06-01-2011, 08:08 PM

Are we though? I mean, it's the one where Vriska won still, and there's no way she wouldn't win.

I never really got the doomed timelines based on coin flip thing, though.
Basically, the idea behind it is that the coin results themselves are irrelevant so much as the choice the person in question makes during the flip. In Dave's case, the result was the same but what he determined would be the consequence of that result was different in each timeline.

For Vriska, there was no random chance involved because she chose which side on which the coin would land. That decision created two separate timelines. The one we are viewing now is the one where everyone died as a result: the doomed timeline. The other one where she decided the coin would land differently is the one where Jack doesn't have a trail to follow back to the hideout and kill everyone, so they don't die.

Finally, see this. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005508)
Conversely, see the next page. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005509) That end result of their deaths in that manner was the sign to Aradia that she was in a doomed timeline, so she got out of it. I don't believe this situation is any different.

Solid Snake

06-01-2011, 08:13 PM

I'm not so sure, though. Scratch's language in describing that "everything that can happen is either a visual or substantive reproduction of something which has already transpired on a timeline, offshoot or otherwise" really seems to suggest that alpha-timeline Karkat and Terezi are doomed to die in a similar situation regardless. Unless Scratch is trolling us. And I wouldn't put that past Andrew.

POS Industries

06-01-2011, 08:13 PM

It's also very noteworthy that Scratch pointed out that he is actually unaware of what's going on here, but is merely making educated guesses on the matter.

Solid Snake

06-01-2011, 08:15 PM

I was just going to add, doesn't Scratch earlier suggest that the result of the Vriska / Terezi coin toss is the same across all timelines? I'll try to find the quote, but I'm just recalling this offhand.

Marc v4.0

06-01-2011, 08:15 PM

Welp, nothing to see here. We're in the doomed timeline created by Terezi's last coin flip. Everybody move along, nothing here matters.

The result of the flip was left inconclusive, at which point you decided to pay me a visit.

But the inconclusive should not be confused with the uncertain. The actual result was trivial; it was a constant across all timelines.

Her last coin flip didn't follow the same rules as the others. The result was a constant instead of an uncertainty. Vriska always made it come out in her favor, there is no room for "a universe where it didn't happen that way"

Constant means Constant. There would be no reason to single that coin flip out as being a constant if there was a deviance where she decided to make the coin flip land so she didn't 'go'.

POS Industries

06-01-2011, 08:18 PM

Her last coin flip didn't follow the same rules as the others. The result was a constant instead of an uncertainty. Vriska always made it come out in her favor, there is no room for "a universe where it didn't happen that way"
Well, the end result is that she made it come out in her favor. That was never in dispute and was constant across all timelines.

The thing that isn't constant here is what her favor actually was, because it's whatever she decides it to be. In the presumed alpha timeline that we're not viewing, her favor was one where she stayed. In this one, it was one where she left.

Marc v4.0

06-01-2011, 08:21 PM

We are viewing the Alpha timeline. Seriously. Lets not obsfucate the issue by assuming a speculation based on no evidence to be a hard fact.

Shit is already a pain in the ass to follow as it is

That end result of their deaths in that manner was the sign to Aradia that she was in a doomed timeline, so she got out of it. I don't believe this situation is any different.

The breaking point of that Timeline was Gamzee flipping out, not the manner of K and T's death. The timeline was broken before that point came to pass, and the signs that it was a doomed timeline were present from the time Gamzee snapped.

Solid Snake

06-01-2011, 08:23 PM

Regardless, I want to know whose red shoes those are, above Terezi and Karkat's dead bodies. Gamzee's? If so, was Gamzee was left alive, or was he killed too? If not Gamzee, it'd have to be Sollux or Kanaya, right?

POS Industries

06-01-2011, 08:24 PM

Solid Snake

06-01-2011, 08:26 PM

Ah. So Jack brought the bodies to her. Lovely.

POS Industries

06-01-2011, 08:30 PM

We are viewing the Alpha timeline. Seriously. Lets not obsfucate the issue by assuming a speculation based on no evidence to be a hard fact.

Shit is already a pain in the ass to follow as it is
I have supplied evidence. This scene is a callback to a scene that was specifically displayed to be from a doomed timeline, one that I suspect was created by a callback to another scene involving a doomed timeline.

From a storytelling perspective, the foreshadowing and recall involved here suggests that this, too, is a doomed timeline. You have presented evidence to rebut the idea, I have presented an interpretation of the evidence that rebuts your rebuttal.

If you have nothing further to support your argument, that's your problem.

The breaking point of that Timeline was Gamzee flipping out, not the manner of K and T's death. The timeline was broken before that point came to pass.
Who ever said it wasn't?

rpgdemon

06-01-2011, 08:36 PM

Ah. So Jack brought the bodies to her. Lovely.

Well, of course. He's a good dog. Best friend.

Bard The 5th LW

06-01-2011, 08:51 PM

I think that Scratch is definitely showing us his scrapbook for a reason, but I don't totally know why.

Anyways, the bluntness of the deaths doesn't seem to be bugging me as much as it does others it seems. Aside from just the hope it isn't final, there is the fact that Jack's omnipotent. How could it turn out differently? What would sending them out in a blaze of glory change?

Arcanum

06-01-2011, 09:23 PM

Wait so Scratch is saying that everything that happens is a replica of something that has already happened / will happen in any timeline (doomed or Alpha), right? But really, doomed timelines can be caused by pretty much anything, and it's quite possible that there are an infinite number of them. So basically what Scratch is really saying is that anything can happen, it's just that his omniscience allows him to see the pattern.

But really this just seems like Hussie incorporating his frequent use of callback images into the actual workings of Paradox Space, thus making callbacks an inescapable and canon part of the Homestuck universe.

Revising Ocelot

06-01-2011, 09:28 PM

This is where events begin to outpace my awareness. The deeper into this dark pocket we explore, the more I will be forced to speculate. I rarely have cause to rely on probability, but luckily for you, my guesses are better than anybody's.

Basically, he can't actually see what's happening to the meteor, Karkat & Terezi etc. He's predicting that they'll be dead and laid out by Jack in that manner because that's how they died in the timeline Aradia visited earlier where Gamzee snapped and killed everyone early. Note the similar blood swirls.

EDIT: Hm, thinking about it he schedueled one second for Rose, but took two seconds. Is his omniscience is starting to go kaput?

BitVyper

06-01-2011, 10:34 PM

Doc Scratch looks adorable sitting in that chair.

Aldurin

06-01-2011, 11:32 PM

Is SS dumping oil all over the place so he can burn the mansion down?

Bard The 5th LW

06-01-2011, 11:55 PM

Yeah, its been said before in comic/thread.

I was actually expecting him to start with the curtain, but this seems more effective. What I really am dissapointed about is that he didn't pour any oil on the scrapbook or Scratch himself.

Art of Hilt

06-02-2011, 12:26 AM

Oh boy, dark pockets.
Best thing I've heard from Doc Scratch so far.

Revising Ocelot

06-02-2011, 05:29 AM

BURN HIS HOUSE DOWN!

POS Industries

06-02-2011, 11:15 AM

I swear, if Vriska gets a flash out of this fight when Rose didn't, I'm deleting this shit from my bookmarks.

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 11:20 AM

I swear, if Vriska gets a flash out of this fight when Rose didn't, I'm deleting this shit from my bookmarks.

You've forgotten that Vriska is Vriska.
At this point I'm expecting the laws of the parallel universes themselves to bow down to her and worship her very existence.

POS Industries

06-02-2011, 11:26 AM

This has nothing to do with Vriska and everything to do with Hussie's excuse of "well, it would have taken too long and been too hard to make it as cool as it should have been so I didn't even try" being complete bullshit.

Kim

06-02-2011, 11:28 AM

I will forgive Vriska getting a flash if it backs-and-forths between her fighting Jack and Rose fighting Jack.

POS Industries

06-02-2011, 11:31 AM

I will forgive Vriska getting a flash if it backs-and-forths between her fighting Jack and Rose fighting Jack.
I would accept this as a suitable compromise. Probably won't be the case, though.

Kim

06-02-2011, 11:37 AM

I would accept this as a suitable compromise. Probably won't be the case, though.

I agree, though if I hadn't seen his "It's too hard!" post I'd probably assume this to be what he's doing.

Loyal

06-02-2011, 11:50 AM

Which post is this, then? I don't remember.

POS Industries

06-02-2011, 11:52 AM

Which post is this, then? I don't remember.
This one. (http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/198255939592161163)

Revising Ocelot

06-02-2011, 11:53 AM

http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/195850403307361249
&
http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/198255939592161163

EDIT: Technically not ninjaed by POS since I had one extra link. Now to bludgeon myself over the head before I think of being arrogant and gloating.

Arcanum

06-02-2011, 12:08 PM

I love how Scratch seems surprised that his house spontaneously burst into flames.

Also I don't think Vriska will be getting a flash update, mostly because Scratch said this at the start:

But the visuals I supply will be nothing more than abbreviated snapshots, and my telling will be abridged.

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 12:09 PM

It really doesn't sound like we'll be seeing any more flashes between now and the end of the act. We'll get one last one, then Act Six. I wonder if Act Seven will still be predominantly told through flash as planned.

...That's probably a good thing, but I can't help but feel a little disappointed that Andrew didn't plan out the flashes more in advance. I'd gladly have traded a few of the earlier flashes for relatively unimportant scenes if it meant a flash that combined the Rose & Vriska fights with the apparent Terezi/Karkat death reveal. Giving Terezi and Karkat's death virtually no fanfare is somewhat puzzling given that trolls with far less narrative importance received flashes and Alterniabound sequences as swan songs.

Loyal

06-02-2011, 12:21 PM

Ah. So not so much "forget" as "never saw because I avoid the formspring like the plague".

Bard The 5th LW

06-02-2011, 01:21 PM

It was a formspring.

Fifthfiend

06-02-2011, 03:46 PM

God the new album is so good.

Ah. So not so much "forget" as "never saw because I avoid the formspring like the plague".

Look at all this wisdom.

Just look at it.

Fifthfiend

06-02-2011, 04:22 PM

Look at all this wisdom.

Just look at it.

I failed to look at this wisdom.

I read the formspring.

:(

Fifthfiend

06-02-2011, 04:23 PM

In a perfect universe, Adobe customer service would respond to Andrew Hussie's complaints about Adobe CS5 in exactly the tone of his formspring postings.

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 04:25 PM

I'm kind of (pleasantly) surprised Andrew hasn't taken advantage of the opportunity to troll the hell out of everyone inevitably sending him questions about Karkat and Terezi's deaths just yet.

POS Industries

06-02-2011, 05:10 PM

I failed to look at this wisdom.

I read the formspring.

:(
In my defense, my plan was to simply go to the formspring, send him a message about how shitty this all is, and then never return. Sadly, my curiosity got the better of me.

I now cry myself to sleep every night.

rpgdemon

06-02-2011, 05:35 PM

Honestly, I don't think his responses on Formspring are really much worse than Brian's were before he shut it down. I mean, if you get a ton of people going, "I WILL TRY TO TRAP YOU IN SEMANTICS AND PROVE YOU WRONG BECAUSE YOU HAVE SOMETHING POPULAR THAT I (DID/DIDN'T) LIKE," your responses will get to be the same way back.

He responds reasonably to the reasonably worded questions. I dunno, I might just be reading it in a tone different than you are, but it seems like he's not actually being purposedly vindicative towards the fans.

He could ignore the questions, sure, but if he's answering rude questions rudely, I dunno if it's really that big of a deal.

Krylo

06-02-2011, 05:39 PM

I haven't read the new one. Though it does amuse me that he made a new one 'cause his old one was too much vitriol, with the intent to be 'better' and it has apparently gone the same route.

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 05:52 PM

He responds reasonably to the reasonably worded questions.

Having visited the MSPA forums before, I can say with some certainty that Andrew gets far more 'reasonably worded' questions than he answers, and he tends to answer a surprisingly large proportion of the stupid questions he gets.
He's not overwhelmed by an influx of trolls. He actively seeks them out because he finds it more fun to unleash his vitriol on them than to actually answer legitimate questions regarding the narrative.

Hence why his new account has basically progressed into the same downward spiral as the old one. Restarting from zero doesn't help any if his intent is still to engage in self-aggrandizing holier-than-thou bullshittery.

What really surprises me most with Andrew and the formspring accounts is how little he seems to care for his own characters. I know authors have to be willing to make difficult decisions in order to advance narratives and sometimes the protagonists have to fail and whatnot, but when I kill off a character I genuinely like in my story it really hurts. More than it'd certainly hurt any reader.

Andrew seems to marvel in creating wonderful, fully-realized three-dimensional characters, then despising those characters for how fickle and stupid and one-dimensional they are, and then relying on his own interpretation of their lack of worth or merit to kill them off when it's expedient. And when readers are bothered that their favorite character has died or something he can't seem to relate to them. He's actually bothered by the degree that someone else has invested into his characters. It's almost as if Andrew thinks it speaks poorly of us that we cared so much for his characters as to want anything more than a cursory, half-assed notification that they had died.

It's just weird for me as an author because like, whenever I kill off just about any character I write, even the antagonists, I'm the one who's miserable about it. I feel like I've lost a part of myself. Forget about readers even having to hold the vigil, I'd be the one preventing teary eyes thinking of their lost hopes and dreams and trying desperately to make sense of the death in larger contexts. If I was actually popular enough as an author to write works read by an audience I think I'd almost feel compelled to write some sort of reassuring commentary after every death, reflecting on why I wrote the character as I did and how I shared in the reader's pain.

Fifthfiend

06-02-2011, 06:00 PM

From the bit I read of the new formspring it's way better than the old formspring.

Which is saying more about the old formspring than it does about the new formspring but there you go.

formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring formspring

rpgdemon

06-02-2011, 06:07 PM

What does Formspring even mean?

Like, what's it even supposed to try to embody, that word?

Loyal

06-02-2011, 06:21 PM

I feel bad about repping you because it will probably bump you out of "...would jump into a lake to pull a drowning girl out of a sinking car" which is totally the best rep title but I simply must commend your eminently wise formspring aversionWhy would you do this to me Fifth. What did my rep title ever do to you.

CelesJessa

06-02-2011, 06:25 PM

I have yet to touch the Formspring, and if it's affecting how people are enjoying the comic or whatever, then I guess I'm glad.

I swear, if Vriska gets a flash out of this fight when Rose didn't, I'm deleting this shit from my bookmarks.

Meanwhile I will make this (http://www.honda-tech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43810&stc=1&d=1243914682) face.

(I will be sad once she does die though, because I will be sad and everyone else will apparently be partying. )': )

Still, fight flashes are always pretty sweet.

POS Industries

06-02-2011, 06:42 PM

Still, fight flashes are always pretty sweet.
Oh, I agree. I'm mostly just overwhelmingly bitter over the fact that Rose didn't get to have one because "it would have been too hard." Ordinarily I'd be pretty excited to see this, as well, but quite frankly the surrounding circumstances have altogether killed my enthusiasm. It's the principle of the matter.

Also, I really don't know what the hell Hussie's talking about re: pushing the envelope and his own limits with every consecutive flash seeing as he still hasn't managed to make anything surpassing "[S] Enter" in terms of awesome.

rpgdemon

06-02-2011, 06:44 PM

Update.

Scratch looks absolutely terrifying with the 8^y face. Like, it literally scared me/made me jump.

Fifthfiend

06-02-2011, 06:45 PM

I kind of want Vriska to just like... totally win the fight, and then SGrub goes YOU WIN, VRISKA (BECAUSE YOU ARE THE BEST, AND MOST IMPORTANT EVER)

Why would you do this to me Fifth. What did my rep title ever do to you.

It was too excellent of a post not to acknowledge, I'm sorry.

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 06:56 PM

I kind of want Vriska to just like... totally win the fight, and then SGrub goes YOU WIN, VRISKA (BECAUSE YOU ARE THE BEST, AND MOST IMPORTANT EVER)

I'm torn.
On the one hand, Vriska winning the fight through Andrew Hussie's convenient plotshield for his beloved wife luckhax would push me past the brink, it would be so annoying and I would be utterly infuriated.

On the other hand, I'd gain an additional three to five minutes of internet browsing time each day.
And it would be really intriguing to hear Andrew's justification as to how and why the Rules of Everything do not apply to Vriska.
There is a bright side to everything if you look hard enough.

EDIT: Strike tag, why do you not work

Fifthfiend

06-02-2011, 07:00 PM

It's [s]

akaSM

06-02-2011, 07:01 PM

I miss when I began reading Homestuck, it was... different. The plot actually seemed to have a direction or something :/

Fifthfiend

06-02-2011, 07:03 PM

I'm torn.
On the one hand, Vriska winning the fight through Andrew Hussie's convenient plotshield for his beloved wife luckhax would push me past the brink, it would be so annoying and I would be utterly infuriated.

I hope she beats Lord English and brings everyone back to life and they all tell her how much they love her and create a brand-new universe built from the atomic level on the principle that Vriska is the best and that everybody loves her.

Flarecobra

06-02-2011, 07:08 PM

Damnit Slick. You burned Doc's jacket. That was a nice jacket.

Ryong

06-02-2011, 07:22 PM

So at exactly what point did we go from "and none of this matters because it's not the alpha timeline" to "fuck vriska for winning everything" ?

Because, fuck, if it's not the alpha timeline, woo, she wins and everything only to get told by Aradia in a dream bubble or something that everything she did here didn't matter at all because it's not the alpha timeline and pretty much everyone's dead.

Either that or her all 8s roll isn't enough to kill Jack and it all turns into "Luck doesn't actually matter." again.

stefan

06-02-2011, 07:22 PM

Scratch is refilling the scottie dog bowl.

why is he refilling the scottie dog bowl.

Krylo

06-02-2011, 07:25 PM

I kind of wish I wouldn't have decided to change my avvy/title back a few days ago.

POS Industries

06-02-2011, 07:29 PM

So at exactly what point did we go from "and none of this matters because it's not the alpha timeline" to "fuck vriska for winning everything" ?
To be fair, there's a good chance the two camps are mutually exclusive.

Mainly because there's also a good chance I'm the only one here in the former camp.

akaSM

06-02-2011, 07:31 PM

Scratch is refilling the scottie dog bowl.

why is he refilling the scottie dog bowl.

Because SS emptied the bowl, duh.

I've been wondering about the whole timelines thing too, also, how long has it been since we saw Jade, or the Whinesprite for that matter? :/

Fifthfiend

06-02-2011, 07:34 PM

Ryong

06-02-2011, 07:38 PM

It just hit me that Scratch wasn't worried about everything being on fire.

He was worried about the bowl being empty.

Truly, an excellent host.

I am demonstrably on record as hoping Vriska wins everything and will be super disappointed if she doesn't.

I don't think I can handle this much sarcasm, Fifth. You want me to die because of sarcasm overload?

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 07:50 PM

I don't think I can handle this much sarcasm, Fifth. You want me to die because of sarcasm overload?

I don't think he is being sarcastic. I think he's actually reached a point where his preferred outcome is the zany scenario he's concocted.

...In which case, I am sad to have lost a former ally to Andrew and Vriska's brainwashing techniques. Yet even after the rest of the universe worships her as a goddess I shall stand alone, eternally vigilant, casting my suspicious eyes down upon her and all other Mary Sues everywhere.

I am like a fictional Batman. Not in the sense that I actually am a version of Batman in a narrative, but in the sense that I am like Batman in the context of dissecting and critiquing fictional works. In the dark world of Gotham terrible writing is lauded by the masses, but one skeptic holds his tongue and fights against the tide.
Cue the theme music. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qP-NglUeZU)

POS Industries

06-02-2011, 07:52 PM

I am like a fictional Batman. Not in the sense that I actually am a version of Batman in a narrative, but in the sense that I am like Batman in the context of dissecting and critiquing fictional works. In the dark world of Gotham terrible writing is lauded by the masses, but one skeptic holds his tongue and fights against the tide.
Cue the theme music. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qP-NglUeZU)
I should ban you just for this.

rpgdemon

06-02-2011, 07:52 PM

It's [s]

I thought you meant there was a flash update. I was disappointed.

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 07:59 PM

I should ban you just for this.

Oh come on, that theme music is classic.

EDIT: In a world in which I was actually Batman, do you think I would be:

This Batman? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GROmJWb-3wU)
Or This Batman? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r94AJzJZZaU)

...I rest my case.

Grimpond

06-02-2011, 08:24 PM

5n4k3, h3y 5n4k3

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk282/lordofchaos34/Big-batman-Fail.jpg

Ryong

06-02-2011, 08:47 PM

Now now, there're no ponies in that picture, that can't be him.

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 09:02 PM

Psh
Naw, I'd be in a Pinkie Pie costume
Also why would Terezi mock me when I'm the one who totally has her back
At least have the decency to pretend you're Vriska

Bard The 5th LW

06-03-2011, 09:17 PM

Also since when does Terezi use 5 instead of 's'? Or 0 instead of 'O'? Since never, that's when.

Grimpond

06-03-2011, 09:19 PM

That's how i do 1337. I was simply making a reference to terezi's work.

Flarecobra

06-03-2011, 10:02 PM

He'd be like some of the guys in this one? (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dl7PFpGmXy8/TeVpZ_GYKfI/AAAAAAAAFQw/wrQQVezo5EE/s1600/group2.jpg)

Kim

06-04-2011, 02:20 AM

The update delay makes me assume Vriska is getting a flash ahahahahaha

Fifthfiend

06-04-2011, 04:15 AM

Oh man, I bet Tavros comes back to tell Vriska what a totally great favor she did for him by killing him.

The best flash 3v4r?!.

EDIT: Nah I mean probably Vriska is going to die

you know, the way she lived

as a true hero

Revising Ocelot

06-04-2011, 06:22 AM

What the flux happened in here?

Anyway, my personal Mad Ramblings is that the most favourable outcome will indeed occur. Which will be dumping Vriska as far away from Jack as possible because no outcome can gank 'im.

Cue Sad Vriska.

Art of Hilt

06-04-2011, 06:58 AM

So, what.
Everything here is Scratch guessing?
The truthfullness of this fight is negotiable?
So if Vriska dies or lives, she might not actually be dead/alive because the dark pocket might mean that Doc Scratch's guess is wrong?

:I

Loyal

06-04-2011, 08:54 AM

Indeed. Doc Scratch has a storied and elegant way of saying nothing in particular, as only he can.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-04-2011, 10:12 AM

Well, of course. In this war of one bullet fired he's a facilitator. Not an Assassin.

POS Industries

06-04-2011, 10:52 AM

The update delay makes me assume Vriska is getting a flash ahahahahaha
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/attheready.png

Aldurin

06-04-2011, 11:13 AM

You know you'll be coming back for more.

Revising Ocelot

06-04-2011, 12:04 PM

Two days with no update = ragequit?

It's like you haven't noticed the general update pattern in the last 2 months. AKA not every single day.

EDIT: Eh, if you are getting this worked up over it then -do- ragequit. Don't read for a month, or longer. Let's say until after the actual Scratch. See if the dumping of characters who individually probably have more dialogue than Jade in such an unceremonious manner is then explained at a later point or not.

Solid Snake

06-04-2011, 12:43 PM

Oh man, I bet Tavros comes back to tell Vriska what a totally great favor she did for him by killing him.

Oh, no, that's not quite what will happen.

Vriska is going to meet Tavros in the afterlife and then he will beg for her forgiveness, because he was totally wrong to attack her after merely finding out she was responsible for this entire mess, and after years of physical and mental abuse.

Vriska will not accept his apology as she'll be inundated by praise from Karkat, Terezi, and the rest of the cast, all pleading to spend but a moment in her presence.

Geminex

06-04-2011, 01:02 PM

Also since when does Terezi use 5 instead of 's'? Or 0 instead of 'O'? Since never, that's when.

M1SS M3 Y3T? >: ]

Seriously, though, bluh. I come back to read MSPA after two weeks, and I find this? What the hell gives?

I mean, I can only assume that somewhere along the line, the whole thing split off into a beta timeline (my guess is Terezi's coin toss), but this still does... not seem very good. At all.

Mind you, ima give Hussie the benefit of the doubt, for now. Mostly because the last time something did not seem very good at all was when Eridan went on a killing spree, and we all know how that ended. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005438)

Bard The 5th LW

06-04-2011, 01:21 PM

This being a split timeline would be really cheap. I have heavy doubts about it unless this just happens to be a really important split timeline.

edit: I imagine the flash would probably be more than just Vriska. Might have John as well.

Marc v4.0

06-04-2011, 02:27 PM

Yeah, I totally bet that coin flip we were straight up TOLD always has the same outcome across all timelines will be completely responsible.

CelesJessa

06-04-2011, 02:38 PM

...What.

I mean this doesn't even make any sense anymore. A roll of the dice transforms her into her ancestor? Suddenly she's a pirate? Does the Sword have like, a +Infinity modifier against omnipotent beings?

Why doesn't it make sense? A roll of the dice magically made a guillotine show up out of nowhere so I'm not sure why super powerful costume change is that WOAH CRAZY WHAT IS HUSSIE DOING.

EDIT: Woah, I turned into Dave and I'm commenting IN THE PAST

Loyal

06-04-2011, 02:41 PM

Hey, it's Matchsticks. First time we've seen him in canon.

Specterbane

06-04-2011, 02:42 PM

Art of Hilt

06-04-2011, 02:42 PM

VRISKA SERKET'S ULTIMATE ATTACK: COSPLAY

I'm looking forward to it doing exactly -1 HP of damage against Noir.
Looks pretty badass though I'm not going to lie.

Bard The 5th LW

06-04-2011, 03:04 PM

Makes sense to me. The dice used to BELONG to Mindfang after all.

A roll of the dice transforms her into her ancestor? Suddenly she's a pirate?

She might have had the costume in her sylladex. Also she was always a pirate, or should I say a Petticoat Seagrift.

Bard The 5th LW

06-04-2011, 03:05 PM

Shit timefuck post.

Flarecobra

06-04-2011, 03:07 PM

Oh, hey Matchsticks.

Figures he shows up when fire's about.

Revising Ocelot

06-04-2011, 03:07 PM

Goddamnit, time travel is afflicting the whole forum now.

Anyways, I thought Jack would be savvy enough to stab someone during a transformation sequence. Eh. Sword is in the shape of Vriska's horns, so I guess John doesn't actually alchemize Vriska herself. >.>

EDIT: GODDAMNIT, I'm time travelling as well!

:wtf:

Dracorion

06-04-2011, 03:13 PM

No boobs, so she's clearly only dressed as her ancestor.

Loyal

06-04-2011, 03:16 PM

No boobs, so she's clearly only dressed as her ancestor.

She just needs a few sweeps to grow into it. And then she can be the prettiest Sue of them all.

BitVyper

06-04-2011, 03:34 PM

Suddenly she's a pirate?

Considering that when her dice were introduced, it was explicitly stated that "in ancient times such weapons were employed by roving bands of GAMBLIGNANTS," that is, pirates, I'm not exactly sure how this ability makes so little sense. Also it's not like Vriska has no pirate-association herself. She used to be one.

Anyway, it's just a super form. It doesn't mean she has any chance of beating Jack, but regardless of what luck is worth, she's still the strongest sub-omnipotence (where omnipotence doesn't mean being The One Above All) character, and has been established as such for quite awhile, having spent a lot of time in the god tiers. There's every reason that she might be a bit more of a challenge than the others.

Edit: I mean, the only other dice ability we've seen created a giant guillotine. I'm really not sure what kind of sense you're looking for in the dice powers. Magical pirate artifacts creating magical pirate stuff makes more sense than them making a guillotine.

Edit: My post has become unhinged from time!

Bard The 5th LW

06-04-2011, 03:39 PM

Vriska is totally going to kill Jack, and then get eaten by Lord English.

Marc v4.0

06-04-2011, 03:43 PM

If god-mode horror-terror super-power didn't do anything, then Lucky Super Vriska-Jin level 2 won't either.

Marc v4.0

06-04-2011, 03:44 PM

I think the clock might be off, cause I posted my comment after Snake and Karesh

Fifthfiend

06-04-2011, 03:45 PM

Oh man yes, we finally get to see Vriska's ultimate power!

Go, Vriska!

POS Industries

06-04-2011, 03:46 PM

Two days with no update = ragequit?
What? No, this:

I swear, if Vriska gets a flash out of this fight when Rose didn't, I'm deleting this shit from my bookmarks.
= ragequit.

Try to keep up.

Arhra

06-04-2011, 03:48 PM

Or, you know, it's setting her up for a heroic or just death.

Locke cole

06-04-2011, 04:05 PM

Yeah, because this totally isn't going to end with her getting unceremoniously stabbed by Jack, like every single other threat he's come up against.

This move dealt the deathblow to the Black King, but Jack is canonically far stronger than the trolls' Black King.

The move's called "Ancestral Awakening", by the way.

edit: Wait what time-traveling post? I was responding to the post 2 below this one, by Solid Snake!

edit: wait now it's 3 below this one.

Long story short: this ain't anything new, SS.

Besides, luck means nothing when you can choose for it to do whatever. Vriska shifted her luck, and everyone DIED as a result.

Fifthfiend

06-04-2011, 04:07 PM

I think the best thing about these updates is how Doc Scratch isn't chiming in telling us how stupid we are for wanting to know what's going to happen here, because we are obviously NOT stupid for wanting to know what's going to happen to Vriska, unlike those stupid people who care about Vriska's stupid sidekicks, Rose and John.

Grimpond

06-04-2011, 05:43 PM

Grimpond

06-04-2011, 06:11 PM

where in the world are you getting this idea that she is going beyond god tier?

Revising Ocelot

06-04-2011, 06:21 PM

What? No, this:

= ragequit.

Try to keep up.

I'm keeping up perfectly. You assumed that two days with no update = Vriska flash.

Kerensky287

06-04-2011, 06:23 PM

Anyway for y'all who presume I'm complaining because I think "Vriska will win," I actually think whether she wins or loses this 'fight' is irrelevant. (But I don't think it's quite as unlikely a possible 'twist' as y'all seem to assume of it.) What's important here is that Vriska officially has a power that goes beyond God Tier, like this power is so gosh-darned amazing even her God Tier fairy clothes were replaced, meaning she's officially surpassed John, Gamzee, Rose, and everyone but Jack as the Most Powerful of Them All, which is just another level of Mary Sueism to add to her shining history as the love of Andrew's life.

If I were writing the story I would have her become godlike in every timestream but the Alpha one, in which case she ends up as the ultimate buttmonkey of the universe.

Mary Sue powers don't count for shit if reality hates you.

Bard The 5th LW

06-04-2011, 06:23 PM

Anyway for y'all who presume I'm complaining because I think "Vriska will win," I actually think whether she wins or loses this 'fight' is irrelevant. (But I don't think it's quite as unlikely a possible 'twist' as y'all seem to assume of it.) What's important here is that Vriska officially has a power that goes beyond God Tier, like this power is so gosh-darned amazing even her God Tier fairy clothes were replaced, meaning she's officially surpassed John, Gamzee, Rose, and everyone but Jack as the Most Powerful of Them All, which is just another level of Mary Sueism to add to her shining history as the love of Andrew's life.

Dude she probably had the outfit with her for the occasion. Its just a bitching powerful sword with a boat backdrop. And this is something she's always had. Not a new last minute better than everyone power. She used it in the black king battle and it clearly didn't have a permanent effect.

POS Industries

06-04-2011, 06:24 PM

I'm keeping up perfectly. You assumed that two days with no update = Vriska flash.
No, NonCon suggested that, and I displayed that I was at the ready to delete it from my bookmarks in the event of such for humorous purposes.

You're not keeping up well at all.

Bard The 5th LW

06-04-2011, 06:24 PM

Anyway for y'all who presume I'm complaining because I think "Vriska will win," I actually think whether she wins or loses this 'fight' is irrelevant. (But I don't think it's quite as unlikely a possible 'twist' as y'all seem to assume of it.) What's important here is that Vriska officially has a power that goes beyond God Tier, like this power is so gosh-darned amazing even her God Tier fairy clothes were replaced, meaning she's officially surpassed John, Gamzee, Rose, and everyone but Jack as the Most Powerful of Them All, which is just another level of Mary Sueism to add to her shining history as the love of Andrew's life.

Dude she probably had the outfit with her for the occasion. Its just a bitching powerful sword with a boat backdrop. And this is something she's always had. Not a new last minute better than everyone power. She used it in the black king battle and it clearly didn't have a permanent effect.

Locke cole

06-04-2011, 06:24 PM

About going "Beyond" God tier... how much does that really mean? Being god-tiered simply gives her immortality, flight, and her luck-stealing power. It's all defensive and situational.

I mean, so what if this changes her outfit. It's just a combat buff. How do we know it's more powerful than Grimdark Rose was? I mean, Rose was restructuring the ruins of her planet as she saw fit before she went grimdark and started detonating tings in the blink of an eye.

As far as we've seen now, Ancestral Awakening has simply given her a powerful sword for a limited time. And guess what? Jack has a sword, too.

Yes, she's gone "beyond god tier" in the same way that John getting the Warhammer of Zillyhoo made him go beyond his normal power.

And with all this talk of going one step beyond, I wish I remembered how to get to that video of John as Goku.

One last thing: you say she's surpassed Gamzee. But you may remember Karkat ranting about how Gamzee's attack may have done even more damage than Vriska's (which is THIS SAME ATTACK). It's only inconclusive because this was the deathblow, so we don't know how much damage it did compared to Gamzee.

edit: derp derp more time travelin'. This one's a response to SS's edit

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-04-2011, 06:26 PM

Update.
All of a sudden Scratch refilling the bowl makes perfect sense (Far right of the latest page's banner).

Solid Snake

06-04-2011, 06:30 PM

...What.

I mean this doesn't even make any sense anymore. A roll of the dice transforms her into her ancestor? Suddenly she's a pirate? Does the Sword have like, a +Infinity modifier against omnipotent beings?
In retrospect it's kind of sad that Terezi's prediction about "luck not being worth anything" was just Andrew teasing anyone hoping Vriska would get her comeuppance. Instead, luck gives you everything! Including the ability to go into uber-beyond-God-Tier-mode.

EDIT: Ahahahaha I get to have the last word in everything.

Anyway for y'all who presume I'm complaining because I think "Vriska will win," I actually think whether she wins or loses this 'fight' is irrelevant. (But I don't think it's quite as unlikely a possible 'twist' as y'all seem to assume of it.) What's important here is that Vriska officially has a power that goes beyond God Tier, like this power is so gosh-darned amazing even her God Tier fairy clothes were replaced, meaning she's officially surpassed John, Gamzee, Rose, and everyone but Jack as the Most Powerful of Them All, which is just another level of Mary Sueism to add to her shining history as the love of Andrew's life.

Even Vriska dying here will only fast-track the inevitable scene I can't wait for in which she meets up with Tavros and Tavros tells her that being dead is no big deal and then he begs her for forgiveness because he was such a horrible person to have dared to attack her after everything she's been through.

Locke cole

06-04-2011, 06:36 PM

Aaaand update. See? A sword.

Granted, it's a cool sword, but I'm guesin' it won't last forever.

By the way, the text at the bottom is "AUTO-PIRATE"

Loyal

06-04-2011, 06:36 PM

Matchsticks is such a brave firefighter.

Just lookit him fighting those flames.

Bard The 5th LW

06-04-2011, 06:38 PM

I'd say my only real regret about this turn of events is that we didn't get a walk-about where we play as Gamzee stalking Karkat and Sollux.

e: Press the spacebar to honk

Locke cole

06-04-2011, 06:39 PM

Let's hope nobody filled it with shaving cream (how could it be so flammable)

How is he alive, anyway? He was one of the dead green torsos, even before Slick got shunted into a universe where they were all dead.

Bard The 5th LW

06-04-2011, 06:42 PM

Timeline fuckery I'd guess. Remember, Slick got sent to a timeline where EVERYONE but Himself, Snowman, and LE were dead. Including CD, HB, and DD who we have seen alive and well. I imagine that in the MC intermission he was sent to a whole ton of odd split timelines. I guess he and the other MC may have found there way back to Alpha where Matchsticks still lives? Or maybe he and the Felt were just brought back to life.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-04-2011, 06:44 PM

Timeline fuckery I'd guess. Remember, Slick got sent to a timeline where EVERYONE but Himself, Snowman, and LE were dead. I imagine that in the MC intermission he was sent to a whole ton of odd split timelines. I guess he and the other MC may have found there way back to Alpha?

I think rather than to do with that specific thing it's just because the Felt in general are all time traveling fuckheads.

Since his name is matchstick, and his number is 11 it might have to do with him being able to be in two different timelines at once.
Or something.

Ryong

06-04-2011, 06:45 PM

Do we even know if this is the Alpha timeline and that Doc Scratch follows a timeline at all, though?

Edit: Hell, we still don't even know if Jack vs Vriska is the Alpha timeline, I mean, shit, Karkat and Sollux were together, as were Terezi and Gamzee and Kanaya was walking around somewhere, why'd Jack get Karkat and Terezi? "Hey, look, this is the final matesprit pair of your shitty species." ?

Anyway, my money's on Vriska winning and this being a pyrrhic victory: She wins, gets a dreambubble where Aradia tells her that, shit, no, this ain't the alpha timeline and now not only is she alone in this timeline, none of her efforts have mattered at all, which would be incredible...And then it cuts to the Alpha timeline with Alpha!Vriska staying with Terezi.

Edit2: Seriously Snake, I know of your unending Vriska hate, but did you skip the ancestor plot point completely?

CelesJessa

06-04-2011, 06:54 PM

meaning she's officially surpassed John, Gamzee, Rose, and everyone but Jack as the Most Powerful of Them All,

It's just a single attack, it looks like. It's not like she's turned into MARQUISE SPINNERET MINDFANG MK II WHO CAN DEFEAT EVERYTHING EVER.

Out of curiosity, could we possibly tone down on the VRISKA IS A TERRIBLE CHARACTER AND HUSSIE IS TERRIBLE FOR MAKING HER UP AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR LIKING HER; ANY UPDATE IN WHICH SHE DOESN'T DIE IS TERRIBLE in general. Just a bit. I mean, by no means does anyone have to like any character they think is stupid or a Mary Sue or whatever but it does make the thread seem kind of hostile for those who DO like her. (Baww how dare you not like what I like) blah blah I have terrible taste so on and so forth. Or at least wait to see what happens before being like whatever is happening is terrible and stupid.

I mean, you don't have to but it'd be nice.

In other news, I have a feeling everything is going to stop anticlimactically as Scratch pulls the fire alarm, somehow.

Aldurin

06-04-2011, 07:06 PM

It's not a flash, but it's extreme fancy awesomeness will not go unnoted.

Marc v4.0

06-04-2011, 07:20 PM

Vriska-hate is the MLP of this Homestuck thread

POS Industries

06-04-2011, 07:23 PM

It's not a flash, but it's extreme fancy awesomeness will not go unnoted.
Nahhh, this is fine. Bear in mind, Rose got several flashes dedicated to the buildup to her fight with Jack, with John playing a supporting role. Vriska is getting less here in terms of ZOMG DBZ POWERUP SEQUENCES AHOY relative to her actual place of importance compared to the kids, at least.

It all kinda middles out when you consider that, insofar as the story itself is concerned, she's not actually more important than Karkat or Terezi, either, but for the time being I'm just content in the knowledge that Hussie is at least fair in his execution of being a lazyass who's apparently lost all sense of being able to convey an exciting action sequence.

The bookmark remains!

rpgdemon

06-04-2011, 09:43 PM

It's just a single attack, it looks like. It's not like she's turned into MARQUISE SPINNERET MINDFANG MK II WHO CAN DEFEAT EVERYTHING EVER.

Out of curiosity, could we possibly tone down on the VRISKA IS A TERRIBLE CHARACTER AND HUSSIE IS TERRIBLE FOR MAKING HER UP AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR LIKING HER; ANY UPDATE IN WHICH SHE DOESN'T DIE IS TERRIBLE in general. Just a bit. I mean, by no means does anyone have to like any character they think is stupid or a Mary Sue or whatever but it does make the thread seem kind of hostile for those who DO like her. (Baww how dare you not like what I like) blah blah I have terrible taste so on and so forth. Or at least wait to see what happens before being like whatever is happening is terrible and stupid.

I mean, you don't have to but it'd be nice.

In other news, I have a feeling everything is going to stop anticlimactically as Scratch pulls the fire alarm, somehow.

This is pretty much my reaction to the updates everythings.

A Zarkin' Frood

06-05-2011, 01:40 AM

I tend avoid this thread due to the massive boo-hooing going on in here sometimes. It seems to be so full of fanboy rage. Mostly premature fanboy rage by people who confuse Homestuck with an episodic comic for some weird reason.

As for seemingly nothing happening and anticlimaxes (Maybe I'm just too jaded, but only one of the "build-ups" made me believe there was something about to happen), I can understand why some would have a problem with that, but don't mind myself. So it's not like I want to start another shitstorm, far from that.

And Hussie is awesome for shitting on the readers who try to tell him what to do, so they can ship their favorite characters or whatever. It's not like he just shoots honest criticism down, like so many here would make me believe.

And Vriska turned out to be my favorite troll not long after her introduction. Right after Gamzee of course.

I thought Avatar sucked and liked both cuts of Donnie Darko, in fact I really enjoyed the Director's Cut. I also enjoyed Shoot Em Up, prefer MSG2 over MGS3 (which the most horribly overrated POS only topped by Avatar) and a whole lot of other stuff I can't think of right now. Go on.

Wait, why am I saying this after saying I don't want to start a shitstorm? We'll never know.

Revising Ocelot

06-05-2011, 02:12 AM

No, NonCon suggested that, and I displayed that I was at the ready to delete it from my bookmarks in the event of such for humorous purposes.

You're not keeping up well at all.

You still ran with the suggestion, though. However, do I have to change my sig back? You should know already that I'M A COMPLETE MORON IN EVERY CONCEIVABLE WAY.

Since you can't do it through the internet, I'll punch myself in the head for you. Until I either bleed/fall unconscious.

A Zarkin' Frood

06-05-2011, 04:35 AM

If Scratches speculations go where I think they go she'll win but probably barely make it. Assuming he's using the troll's fight with the Black King as a reference of sorts (At least I think it was the Black King). Of course that's only one of the possible outcomes in my pretty little head, but the first one that sprang to mind after "omg Vriska gets pwnz0ri2ed", so I'm rolling with those two for now. Of course, whatever happens now, but turn out to be not true afterwards, or maybe it happens, but with a twist we're yet to learn. Or it's exactly as Scratch says.

Art of Hilt

06-05-2011, 09:31 AM

Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff update. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/sweetbroandhellajeff/?cid=032.jpg)
Two of them, really.

A Zarkin' Frood

06-05-2011, 09:39 AM

The holes are the scratch and Sweet Bro is Lord English. /obvious

Art of Hilt

06-05-2011, 09:41 AM

The wall is the Fourth Wall and the giant fist is the Yellow Yard.

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 09:42 AM

thooth fairy
Incoming... Sollux update?

A Zarkin' Frood

06-05-2011, 09:58 AM

All of the above.

Fifthfiend

06-05-2011, 09:59 AM

Out of curiosity, could we possibly tone down on the VRISKA IS A TERRIBLE CHARACTER AND HUSSIE IS TERRIBLE FOR MAKING HER UP AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR LIKING HER; ANY UPDATE IN WHICH SHE DOESN'T DIE IS TERRIBLE in general.

That bolded bit has always been exceptionally rare and it's always been the people in this thread who like this character who feel free to personally attack other people for having different views about her, as demonstrated by, among other things, this post, by you, just now.

I mean Vriska's a fantastic character and I love her hilariously heroic adventures and all but I think we all as Vriska fans could maybe stand to recognize that criticism of her isn't actually a personal attack on us and doesn't give us the right to attack them.

I mean maybe it's just me but I'm looking over the last hundred posts' worth of this thread and while a lot of people are indeed sharing their inexplicable inability to appreciate this character, often even quite vehemently expressing their incorrect viewpoint, I'm not really seeing the part where like Solid Snake goes "and VRISKA FANS are terrible too, HATE HATE HATE." But I am seeing IG going on about boo-hoo-hooing fanboy rage.

I mean come on guys, don't we owe it to ourselves - no - don't we owe it to Vriska to do better?

rpgdemon

06-05-2011, 10:17 AM

Fifth, you realize that you gave an example of that exact type of behavior, right there, in trying to go, "We don't do this!", right?

CelesJessa

06-05-2011, 10:25 AM

That bolded bit has always been exceptionally rare and it's always been the people in this thread who like this character who feel free to personally attack other people for having different views about her, as demonstrated by, among other things, this post, by you, just now.

Yeah that part was kind of a spur of the moment bit that was pushing it too far, (a little bit of over-exaggeration for emphasis, as I was hoping was obvious, but it was in bad taste) for which I apologize. I was getting aggravated in general and being rude.

Fifthfiend

06-05-2011, 10:35 AM

Fifth, you realize that you gave an example of that exact type of behavior, right there, in trying to go, "We don't do this!", right?

Yeah you are right, while I meant to only criticize the views of people who dislike Vriska, calling that viewpoint inexplicable really was lapsing back into exactly the sort of personal attack on them I was decrying.

I mean I still can't say that I personally understand how they don't appreciate such an excellent character but referring that view inexplicable was just getting a little insulting, so yeah, Snake et al, my bad, guys.

Aldurin

06-05-2011, 10:38 AM

I think Andrew is taking slight advantage of the Homestuck-allusion thing by trying to fuck with our minds.

A Zarkin' Frood

06-05-2011, 10:46 AM

The boo-hoo fanboy rage thing was not in reference to the Vriska debate, but about the fact, that whenever I entered the thread I had to read at least one post whining about the recent direction Homestuck has taken, while I can actually understand those people to a degree, and in some cases even agree, I don't have to hear the same complaints from the same person over and over again expressed in the most annoying from they can come up with. If I'm the only one in the slightest annoyed by this, then please tell me, and I'll shut up.

By the by, posts like my boohooohooooooooooo waaaaaaaaah post above are the reason I have this nice little disclaimer in my sig. While it does convey my opinion it's best to take it with a little dose of humor. I do that sometimes.

Specterbane

06-05-2011, 11:33 AM

The boo-hoo fanboy rage thing was not in reference to the Vriska debate, but about the fact, that whenever I entered the thread I had to read at least one post whining about the recent direction Homestuck has taken, while I can actually understand those people to a degree, and in some cases even agree, I don't have to hear the same complaints from the same person over and over again expressed in the most annoying from they can come up with. If I'm the only one in the slightest annoyed by this, then please tell me, and I'll shut up.
.

Agreed. Can we please just end it with all of these (http://www.google.com/search?q=haters+gonna+hate&hl=en&prmd=ivnsu&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=n-frTaHXMcbx0gH8qsizAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBMQ_AUoAQ&biw=1360&bih=643) and move on to talking about the story?

There's enough there even if we avoid she who must not be named anymore, like Matchsticks being around and not deceased like it was said he was in the intermission. Or the mysterious had grabbing more scotty dogs. Either of those seem like great topics of discussion.

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 11:33 AM

If I'm the only one in the slightest annoyed by this, then please tell me, and I'll shut up.
Naw, we cool, dawg.

We cool.

There's enough there even if we avoid she who must not be named anymore, like Matchsticks being around and not deceased like it was said he was in the intermission. Or the mysterious had grabbing more scotty dogs. Either of those seem like great topics of discussion.
That's the real story anyway since technically Scratch is just making all this up as he goes. I mean, unflappable as he might be, it is questionable that Vriska turned into a pirate the moment he got up and ran to pull the fire alarm.

As for the mysterious black hand, how does Snowman feel about scottie dogs?

Loyal

06-05-2011, 11:38 AM

Or the mysterious had grabbing more scotty dogs. Either of those seem like great topics of discussion.

There is no mystery. Motherfucker loves his scottie dogs.

[e] Like, he has a mystical sense to direct him to the nearest bunch of scottie dogs and he will run into a building he himself just set on fire to obtain them.

Solid Snake

06-05-2011, 12:19 PM

Out of curiosity, could we possibly tone down on the VRISKA IS A TERRIBLE CHARACTER AND HUSSIE IS TERRIBLE FOR MAKING HER UP AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR LIKING HER; ANY UPDATE IN WHICH SHE DOESN'T DIE IS TERRIBLE in general. Just a bit. I mean, by no means does anyone have to like any character they think is stupid or a Mary Sue or whatever but it does make the thread seem kind of hostile for those who DO like her. (Baww how dare you not like what I like) blah blah I have terrible taste so on and so forth. Or at least wait to see what happens before being like whatever is happening is terrible and stupid.

...The heck?
I've never attacked anyone who likes Vriska. I've complained solely about the character herself, and nothing I've said has been directed or should be interpreted to be directed at fans of the character who like her despite or even because of the reasons I dislike her.

I don't understand how y'all can honestly simultaneously criticize my desire to voice criticism in a topic designed to instigate discussion about said product while at the same time voicing your own appreciation and praise for the same elements. So it's cool that I have to read everyone's adoration of Vriska, but I can't criticize her because doing so might offend you? For one, you should really have a thicker shell: It's one thing to criticize a character you like but that's not remotely equivocal to criticizing you yourself.

...Which makes this all very strange, because you're totally fine with criticizing me personally in harsh terms over the fact that a character can't be criticized?

I mean if you want to turn this place into a boring zone where only fondness for Homestuck is expressed and criticism of the product is stifled, that's fine. Just let me know and I'll be sure to limit my discussion points to "Rah Rah Andrew Hussie is awesome at all things, everything he writes is magical."
If you want to criticize me for being objectively wrong, like Ryong basically did in calling me out for forgetting about the ancestor shenanigans, I'm cool with that, too. And if you really disagree with me about my interpretation of Vriska you're always free in my book to argue why you think Vriska is a brilliantly written character and I'll respect your viewpoint and respond to it accordingly.

But there's a huge difference between my criticism of Vriska and intending to "make anyone feel bad for liking her." I've done plenty of the former, none of the latter. At least I've certainly intended none of the latter. If I actually did do the latter unintentionally and you'd like to point out where I crossed any lines, I'd appreciate you (or, even more preferably, a moderator) doing that in a manner that's more civil than basically suggesting I'm trolling and attacking my personal credibility.
Because, you know, you'd pretty much think I was an asshole if I responded to your issues with a character you disliked by saying "Celes you're not welcome here, your opinions are stupid" as opposed to "Celes I respectfully disagree with your points, and here's where you're just objectively wrong in recalling your facts, and here's why I think this character actually works."

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-05-2011, 12:20 PM

I think what she meant wasn't that you were directly insulting anyone but that the negativity is somewhat disheartening.

CelesJessa

06-05-2011, 12:27 PM

I think what she meant wasn't that you were directly insulting anyone but that the negativity is somewhat disheartening.

Very much that, also

Yeah that part was kind of a spur of the moment bit that was pushing it too far, (a little bit lot of over-exaggeration for emphasis, as I was hoping was obvious, but it was in bad taste) for which I apologize. I was getting aggravated in general and being rude.

Very much that. Really.

Solid Snake

06-05-2011, 12:29 PM

I think what she meant wasn't that you were directly insulting anyone but that the negativity is somewhat disheartening.

Can't say I understand that viewpoint either.

First, your own opinions about the awesomeness of a particular product shouldn't stifle criticism of it just because said criticism is unfortunate to hear. I love Metal Gear Solid but you'd all agree that I'd be an ass to immediately respond poorly to any criticism of its legitimate flaws on the basis that hearing those criticisms was 'disheartening.'

Even most of you with positive opinions regarding Homestuck probably don't think it's perfect, so where exactly do you draw the line as to what criticism is permissible and what is not?
EDIT: (Separating this question because I'd actually really like to hear perspectives on it.)

Hell, despite all my bitching and moaning even I've gone on record for noting how much I like and care about Homestuck, so much so that I've bothered to argue my points about it precisely because when it makes a misstep I feel disappointed. If I really hated Andrew's works I'd just respond with apathy.

Second, if you really think a product or a story is amazing, than nothing I say against that storyline should affect you.
Using Metal Gear Solid as an example again, if I really truly love MGS than reading all of your opinions on why MGS is an awful piece of trash really shouldn't have any bearing or cause any 'negative impact' on my own perspective. The only possible exception would be if I were to secretly believe the criticism had some degree of validity and acknowledging that validity made me feel 'uncomfortable.'

But seriously, I don't think I've changed anyone's opinions here regarding Homestuck or Vriska. If you thought it was awesome, you can still think it's awesome and you can either ignore my criticism or respond as to why you think my perspective on Vriska as a character is incorrect. I'd actually honestly be really interested in hearing why some of you really like Vriska, if for no other reason than it's always interesting to hear opposing viewpoints. I certainly wouldn't agree with you, but I'd think it'd actually make for interesting discussion.

EDIT 2: Again, as an example of a criticism of my own arguments in this topic that I think is totally valid and awesome and cool, it's totally rad that people like Ryong and others here correctly pointed out that my dislike of Vriska's Mary Sue-ism as a character blinded me to the fact that Andrew actually legitimately foreshadowed the use of Vriska's ancestral 'attack.' That's awesome, really. I have nothing to say about that except "Oops" and "I'm sorry, my bad." Mind you, it still doesn't change my perspectives about Vriska and Homestuck etc., but that's an example of a time where my criticism went overboard and had people basically limited their responses to my incorrect assertion by pointing out the objective falsehoods in the argument without dowsing my name in mud in the process, that'd be cool in my book.

rpgdemon

06-05-2011, 12:47 PM

The difference is in the saturation. We get it. You guys dislike Vriska. I don't like her very much even. But, saying it and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is incredibly frustrating to read. It's just like, "Yeah, okay, it's the same rant again, yadda yadda.", and it feels as if any viewpoint other than MAN WE HATE VRISKA isn't welcome in the thread. Especially since Vriska keeps being called a Mary Sue, you are insulting anyone who thinks that she's an okay character, or that they'd think it's okay if she wins, by saying that they have a complete lack of appreciation of any form of good characterization at all, and have poor taste. Because, let's be honest, to say that something is a Mary Sue means, "There is no way that anyone should like this character, because it's absolutely terrible and ruins the story." Because if there's a Mary Sue character, the story is tripe and not worth reading to anyone who isn't the author.

Kim

06-05-2011, 12:53 PM

Marc v4.0

06-05-2011, 12:55 PM

To sort of state it again, I think the issue with 'Vriska-hate' isn't that it happens, but that it happens constantly in a stream any time she does something.

It isn't something that bothers me so much as all this horsefuckery filler about the subject of hating or not hating or only morally objecting to Vriska, who does and who does not.

CelesJessa

06-05-2011, 12:56 PM

It's kind of like going to the movies with my brother someone who spends the entire movie criticizing it. Even if their criticisms are totally 100% on the spot it still drives me a little crazy (perhaps a little bit of a pet peeve).

In any case, I do know that I came off rude and I am sorry about that. I don't really care what/how/who/when you criticize anything, and it's totally in your right, because I know I can be that annoying person at the theater sometimes. I was just asking- in terms that could have definitely been worded better, if we could chill on it for a little bit. If not, and I'm the only one who feels the way I do, then I'll just sit on the other side of the theater, and you all can feel free to continue.

Kim

06-05-2011, 12:56 PM

It isn't something that bothers me so much as all this horsefuckery filler about the subject of hating or not hating or only morally objecting to Vriska, who does and who does.

Agreed. This conversation is doing more harm to the thread than the subject that inspired it.

rpgdemon

06-05-2011, 01:07 PM

RPG, you're being a bit ridiculous. More than a bit. More than more than a bit. Saying that by calling Vriska a Mary Sue it's insulting the people who like her is just... what. I happen to think calling Vriska a Mary Sue is probably inaccurate for a number of reasons, some of them merely expectations on my part, but someone stating their opinion of something's writing is not automatically insulting anyone who disagrees. It depends entirely on delivery, and the way you're reacting to what you're complaining about is silly.

That said, people are complaining far less about Vriska than the general writing around this section. It's mostly Snake complaining about Vriska specifically, and even that is within the context of these particular events. If you're unhappy with the level of complaining, fine. Feel free to complain about other people complaining. HOWEVER, internalizing it like you are is just going to lead to awful things.

I don't actually like Vriska all that much, but I think that she's an interesting character still, and have no problem with seeing her succeed or not succeed. I would like to see her end up becoming an okay person, which means more screen time for her.

I don't even care that much about the complaints, insofar as I can avoid the thread, or just skip over the post and it's fine. But, it has gotten pretty silly to see pages devoted to talking about how bookmarks are going to be deleted over Vriska, and since it was brought up, I'd throw in my two cents.

I mean, I always am more (You thought there was going to be a ton of "more than a"s here, didn't you?) bit ridiculous. I'll state my opinion obnoxiously, then change it next post if a counterargument's made that's reasonable. It just seems like the dislike Vriska horse has been beaten into a pulp, but discussion keeps coming back to it.

I didn't even see Snake's posts at all, until his response, due to time traveling shenanigans, and went back to see the actual discussion that went on that I missed, and I've got no problem with anything like that. My post was in response more to the three or so pages of, "Totally hate this, Vriska sucks, don't want her getting a flash" that had gone on before that.

I dunno if it was actually three pages, but it felt like a lot of time dwelling on it.

Edit: Much like the amount of time spent dwelling on this, as y'all said. :P

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 01:17 PM

"Totally hate this, Vriska sucks, don't want her getting a flash" that had gone on before that.
Hang on, taking a moment to interject because this was mostly me and I suppose some reiteration is necessary:

This has nothing to do with Vriska and everything to do with Hussie's excuse of "well, it would have taken too long and been too hard to make it as cool as it should have been so I didn't even try" being complete bullshit.
Also this post. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1131908&postcount=7089)

Even if it wasn't your intent, I'd prefer not to be lumped into the Vriska Hate Par8de�, whether offhandedly or not.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-05-2011, 01:19 PM

Can't say I understand that viewpoint either.

First, your own opinions about the awesomeness of a particular product shouldn't stifle criticism of it just because said criticism is unfortunate to hear. I love Metal Gear Solid but you'd all agree that I'd be an ass to immediately respond poorly to any criticism of its legitimate flaws on the basis that hearing those criticisms was 'disheartening.'

To be honest it's less that I feel like you shouldn't complain but more that I feel like I might be getting on your nerves by liking her.
When I saw the update I was all FUCK YEAH and I was gonna post this picture
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/grthwllms/1305690292059.jpgwith that exact message but then I thought I'd be shoving it right in your face after you'd expressed dislike of the situation, which felt uncomfortable.

rpgdemon

06-05-2011, 01:20 PM

Seriously, time travel makes this sparing forum software instantly assume the most ingratiating posture of surrender imaginable. Where are all these posts coming from that I never saw?

Solid Snake

06-05-2011, 01:21 PM

The difference is in the saturation. We get it. You guys dislike Vriska. I don't like her very much even. But, saying it over and over again is incredibly frustrating to read.

Admittingly, part of the reason why the repetition happens is the nature of MSPA's serial updates. If MSPA was a finished product like a Metal Gear videogame or a television episode, you'd probably only have to endure my criticism in one giant wall of text, and the experience wouldn't feel repetitive.

However, expecting me to wait until after Homestuck is over to criticize Vriska or Andrew's writing generally seems a bit harsh if you're simultaneously comfortable with the thought of everyone praising Homestuck or commenting positively on its newest developments on a daily basis. In other words, either there should be a blanket ban on everyone commenting on Homestuck until it's finished, or you'll have to deal with the daily criticism as well as the day praise.

I'm just saying in this context that the issue of the 'repetition of the complaint' really has nothing to do with a personal attempt by me to troll anyone or start a fight, and everything to do with the nature of how Homestuck itself operates. By your own logic I should be "just as annoyed" to have to endure daily reminders of everyone else's appreciation of Vriska's brilliance. But I'm willing to accept that others disagree with me and the fact that I appear to be in the minority in hatin' on Vriska doesn't bother me much.

EDIT: Karesh: I really wish you had posted that picture because, far from being upset by it, I actually would have felt in some sense vindicated by it.
Whether you love Vriska for being an uber-powerful Mary Sue or hate her for it, conceding that point alone feels like a substantiation of my perspective.

EDIT 2: POS, is it really a "Vriska Hate Par8de�" if it's just, like, one person? :P

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 01:22 PM

Seriously, time travel makes this sparing forum software instantly assume the most ingratiating posture of surrender imaginable. Where are all these posts coming from that I never saw?
Doomed timelines.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-05-2011, 01:25 PM

Whether you love Vriska for being an uber-powerful Mary Sue or hate her for it, conceding that point alone feels like a substantiation of my perspective.

See that's not really what I was going for either.
It would have been ten kinds of awkward if you had been like "hah yeah that is Vriska alright total Mary sue" and I would have had to say "Wait what no"

rpgdemon

06-05-2011, 01:27 PM

A bunch of stuff that made sense.

I guess I'm sort of not really paying attention to the praise, and mostly the dislike, in a sort of confirmation bias.

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 05:34 PM

POS, is it really a "Vriska Hate Par8de�" if it's just, like, one person? :P
You are the Grand Marshal of an endless procession of magenta unhappiness, filled with pony marching bands, Kanaya floats, and one big, lonely balloon.

I half expect to see Santa Claus riding in at the very end of your posts, delivering thousand-page tomes on why Vriska sucks to all the boys and girls in attendance.

EDIT: But all kidding aside, yeah, I think we could all probably stand to quit bitching for a bit. Myself very notably included, of course.

Solid Snake

06-05-2011, 05:37 PM

Oh c'mon POS, that's a little harsh. I don't make it personal about hating you just because you appear to think Vriska's all that and a bag of skittles.

See that's not really what I was going for either.
It would have been ten kinds of awkward if you had been like "hah yeah that is Vriska alright total Mary sue" and I would have had to say "Wait what no"

How would that have been awkward?
You think she's not a Mary Sue, I think she is a Mary Sue, so...what's the big deal?

Anyway, responding briefly to the whole undercurrent of "Why keep pestering us with complaints about Vriska at all, you could just leave us alone," or whatever, I guess the difficulty from my personal perspective is that I happen to love pretty much every Homestuck character that isn't Vriska.

I mean I'd be totally okay with just exiting this thread and deleting MSPA from my bookmarks and never speaking of it again if I actually personally hated it. But I don't hate it, and I'm actually deeply invested in John, Rose, Karkat, Dave, Jade, Terezi, Kanaya, Aradia, Sollux, etc.

If you basically think about it all from my perspective the real frustrating element isn't so much that 'Vriska sucks' in and of itself, but moreso that Vriska's so dominated the storyline as of late that most of those other characters I've just mentioned haven't even been seen. And they're pretty damn important characters. When my frustrations lead to attacks on Vriska it isn't even hating on Homestuck itself so much as it's loving every interaction with Dave and Jade and Aradia and Sollux and other characters who have just plain been missing while Andrew's made it his mission to spend much of the past several months building up to a series of Vriska-centric anticliamxes and basically reorienting Homestuck itself to follow much of her perspective.

You'll notice I actually was a huge fan of the last major endeavor that didn't involve Vriska, the John and Rose gameplay sequence from...how many weeks ago was it?

Specterbane

06-05-2011, 05:39 PM

Damnit, why am I dragging myself into this...

Admittingly, part of the reason why the repetition happens is the nature of MSPA's serial updates. If MSPA was a finished product like a Metal Gear videogame or a television episode, you'd probably only have to endure my criticism in one giant wall of text, and the experience wouldn't feel repetitive.

Snake, have you considered it may not be what specifically you're saying/trying to say that bothers people, but how and how often you say it? The biggest complaint I can see is that people are tired of reading your walls of pink text about how you don't like her every time Vriska comes up.

Also...

However, expecting me to wait until after Homestuck is over to criticize Vriska or Andrew's writing generally seems a bit harsh if you're simultaneously comfortable with the thought of everyone praising Homestuck or commenting positively on its newest developments on a daily basis. In other words, either there should be a blanket ban on everyone commenting on Homestuck until it's finished, or you'll have to deal with the daily criticism as well as the day praise.

I didn't see that at all anywhere, now I may have missed it. But if I didn't and it isn't there, it's rude to put words in people's mouths.

But all that aside, what are people's ideas on Matchsticks? Was he really dead? Is the Wiki right that he is just transported from some place in time? Does he come from a doomed universe? Is this a dream bubble.
Also, Snake I get the the pink text is a joke and that's cool and all. But damn do my eyes hurt every time I read your posts

Marc v4.0

06-05-2011, 05:40 PM

Really don't think she qualifies as a Mary Sue, or ever has. I can't see her as a Mary Sue due to the lack of a sense of wish-fufilment on our or Hussies part and her feats and exploits are no more spectacular then anyone elses in the story, just of a more fanciful variety. She doesn't really seem like a self-insertion or that she is getting any unfair screen time, she is a character that is clearly filling a specific role to a specific end, and it doesn't seem revelant or fruitful to argue the specific label until her part of the story has reached end and can be accuratly judged for what it is or isn't.

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 05:41 PM

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-05-2011, 05:41 PM

If you basically think about it all from my perspective the real frustrating element isn't so much that 'Vriska sucks' in and of itself, but moreso that Vriska's so dominated the storyline as of late that most of those other characters I've just mentioned haven't even been seen. And they're pretty damn important characters. When my frustrations lead to attacks on Vriska it isn't even hating on Homestuck itself so much as it's loving every interaction with Dave and Jade and Aradia and Sollux and other characters who have just plain been missing while Andrew's made it his mission to spend much of the past several months building up to a series of Vriska-centric anticliamxes and basically reorienting Homestuck itself to follow much of her perspective.

You'll notice I actually was a huge fan of the last major endeavor that didn't involve Vriska, the John and Rose gameplay sequence from...how many weeks ago was it?

I see her current center stage role more as just an effect of how the story goes. We see different characters perspectives for long periods, or short periods. It's just Vriskas turn for the time being.
Also part of the reason I don't understand the Mary Sue thing is that within the story there's maybe 2 people that actually think of her as a friend at this point, and one of them is a derp half the time.

And rather than vilifying those that don't like her they're all pretty explicitely stated to be absolutely correct in their distrust or dislike. In total contrast to a Mary Sue's ability to be liked no matter what they do, the opposite is almost true. Kanaya was for a time considered something of a sucker because she kept on thinking well of Vriska despite all the contradictory evidence, and John is so trusting you could tell him to go put a universe destroying bomb in his pocket and he totally would without even questio OH WAIT

Solid Snake

06-05-2011, 05:49 PM

Snake, have you considered it may not be what specifically you're saying/trying to say that bothers people, but how and how often you say it? The biggest complaint I can see is that people are tired of reading your walls of pink text about how you don't like her every time Vriska comes up.

Each and every one of my "horrible pink walls of text" that you hate so much because you apparently think I'm Satan incarnate or something is really nothing more than an expression that I was aggravated with the latest update and wanted to share my thoughts with someone else who might theoretically agree or disagree and want to chat about it. I like debating people, I like expressing my opinions and I like instigating discussion. That being said, if you find my style of writing grating or my perspective annoying, I don't see what the big issue with skipping every tidbit of magenta text you find.

I really don't see what the big deal is with just expecting you to ignore what I say (if you don't want to respond it or if you find my arguments unpersuasive) rather than actually personally insulting me over it.

Ironically, if everyone just collectively ignored Snake every time he made a point, you'd have accomplished your apparent goal of making me disappear much quicker, if that's what you really wanted. I'm not going to waste time typing walls of text if I feel I have no audience. By contrast, if you defend Vriska I often may not interpret that as a sign that my argumentative style is ignoring you, but rather that you appreciate my argumentative style, merely disagree on the merits, and were looking forward to debate the actual merits of, for example, Vriska as a character. Alternatively, if you actually offend me point blank for 'daring to criticize' or something, I mean, I don't know how you'd expect me respond but I'm certainly not going to respond well to that, I don't think any of us would.

(RE: the colors I've been trying to claim magenta as my default for a while, now. If Synk can claim blue and Mauve can claim mauve and Blues can be blue and Seil can basically type in his...lighter pink color...I don't see anything inherently wrong with that.)

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 05:52 PM

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/jaycees-parade-santa-float-7da5d665d82507e2_large.jpg

Solid Snake

06-05-2011, 05:53 PM

Hey, there wasn't any thousand-page tome at the end of my last rant there. It wasn't even about Vriska. :P

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-05-2011, 05:58 PM

Alternatively, if you actually offend me point blank for 'daring to criticize' or something, I mean, I don't know how you'd expect me respond but I'm certainly not going to respond well to that, I don't think any of us would.

I don't think anyone has come anywhere close to saying something like this at any point.

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 05:58 PM

Hey, there wasn't any thousand-page tome at the end of my last rant there. It wasn't even about Vriska. :P
fuck.

who would even make these...... conksuck posts anyway

imigrants??..

Marc v4.0

06-05-2011, 06:01 PM

Snake, chill the fuck out bro.

Stop inserting horrible and hate into anything anyone directs at you. Just let it go, broski. Let it go.

Specterbane

06-05-2011, 06:48 PM

Snake, chill the fuck out bro.

Stop inserting horrible and hate into anything anyone directs at you. Just let it go, broski. Let it go.

This. I'm all about this. I did not say "horrible pink walls of text"

I just said "walls of pink text". This is what I'm talking about when I say it's maybe how you say things that gets people riled up. Other people have already said in this thread that they didn't want to post something for fear of starting something like what we have going. And that is always the case.

I can't say I care to look into possible reason why by reading through the pages of this thread to see how that pattern was formed, but it's an assumption they seem to be making in reaction to all of the posts that have been lumped into the "I HATE VRISKA NEARDRAGE" category.

And we don't want to ignore you, that'd be rude and a bit childish I think.

On topic, did we skip over that John might just die for keeps once this is all said and done (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005694)?

And the magenta is totally cool and all, but it feels like my eyes want to turn into knives and stab themselves sometime when I finish reading the posts. But like I said, it's cool.

Locke cole

06-05-2011, 08:27 PM

For the record, when I entered the argument back during the time-travelling posts, I was mainly just saying that Vriska doesn't exactly win at everything she does.

I mean, heck, this most recent battle came about at the cost of everyone else dying. And thanks to Vriska manipulating her own luck, it's entirely her fault. Well, more her fault than it would've been if she'd just won the coin-flip normally. And she knows it, of course.

As a side-note, I wonder if all of the Flourite Octet's attacks are Mindfang-based. The only other move we've seen from it was Guillotine De La Marquise.

Bard The 5th LW

06-05-2011, 08:35 PM

Vriska totally got comeuppance if you consider being alone forever(?) and knowing that it is irrevocably your own damn fault counts, which I think it does. Is it fair to Karkat/Terezi? No, but those are the breaks.

Red Mage Black

06-05-2011, 09:59 PM

Hmm, I'm noticing something between these forums and MSPA. We have the alpha timeline aka the rightful timeline and the doomed timelines, realities of what 'could have happened'. What I mean is, how the posts seem to be shifting around in a bubble like fashion around the post they're quoting which seem to be in the future. Which is sort of messed up, because I'm reading the Discworld books, so I'll sum it up as this:

Causality of events from MSPA are creating a completely different reality bubble within The Sum of All Things, which is messing with the Overcomplicated Mechanics Of The Universe*. So, once the bubble closes, reality snaps back like a rubber band and reasserts itself, Scratch will finish up and we will get back to What Really Happened*, you'll see the forum will be back to normal as well.

*Okay, I've never seen those used in the books, but I try.

EDIT: Oh wow... read over my own post and... some it doesn't make sense. If you can decipher something I wrote, that not even I can, then the best of luck to you.

Locke cole

06-05-2011, 10:24 PM

Yeah, what is causing the time-travellin' posts, anyway?

POS Industries

06-05-2011, 10:37 PM

Yeah, what is causing the time-travellin' posts, anyway?
ProphetX is in the process of migrating the server and it's screwing with things, apparently.

rpgdemon

06-05-2011, 10:38 PM

Yeah, what is causing the time-travellin' posts, anyway?

A jump to the left.

Red Mage Black

06-06-2011, 02:24 PM

Yeah, what is causing the time-travellin' posts, anyway?
Apparently ProphetX is a King/Hero/Knight/etc of Time and this is a doomed timeline.

Art of Hilt

06-06-2011, 03:54 PM

ProphetX is the Seer of Time, duh. Otherwise it'd be a pretty shitty prophet.

Also, I love how Vriska brings us all closer together. It's so beautiful.

Fifthfiend

06-06-2011, 04:58 PM

TBH I think we should take a page from the days of subs v dubs and just make separate "homestuck love" and "homestuck criticism" threads. That way the people in this thread who will not, under any circumstances, stop bitching and bitching and bitching about... the other people in this thread, who have opinions about a webcomic that they disagree with, can have their own space wherein nobody will hurt their gentle, sensitive feelings by going around disagreeing with their opinions on a webcomic.

Or maybe those people could just... get over it. You know, whichevvvvvvvvvvvv

Flarecobra

06-06-2011, 05:33 PM

The latter would be optimum, but do you think it really comes down to having a "<3 Homestuck" and a "<1- Homestuck" threads?

Revising Ocelot

06-06-2011, 05:39 PM

Well, consider this thread has over 7000 posts. Give it another 6 months and we'll be reaching Meme levels.

Art of Hilt

06-06-2011, 05:41 PM

We'd need a "<> Homestuck" for people who talk about how Homestuck serves as therapy in their personal lives, as well as a "c3< Homestuck" thread for people from the "<3 Homestuck" thread and the "<3< Homestuck" thread to interact on neutral ground.

And then.

We go beyond.

Revising Ocelot

06-06-2011, 05:43 PM

Don't forget another two seperate threads for Vriska.

Marc v4.0

06-06-2011, 05:50 PM

Maybe we should all just cowboy up and stop arguing about arguing about talking about Vriska

POS Industries

06-06-2011, 06:55 PM

Or maybe those people could just... get over it. You know, whichevvvvvvvvvvvv
Unacceptable.

Loyal

06-06-2011, 07:34 PM

Well, we could throw around some fanarts and stuff we like. Even though we don't agree how good the comic is anymore, the community continues to produce staggering levels of amazing content.

Like this. (http://zoroko.deviantart.com/art/Mom-and-Dad-211051008)

Fifthfiend

06-06-2011, 07:46 PM

Unacceptable.

I'm totally going to start posting about how everyone expressing a positive opinion of the comment is calling me an idiot for disliking things about it.

Actually, I'm going to start posting about how everyone expressing a positive opinion of the comment is calling you an idiot for disliking things about it.

Actually, I'm going to start calling you an idiot.

Ugly.

Fifthfiend

06-06-2011, 07:53 PM

I just want to know that there'll be a place somewhere for me that I can go and feel free to express my views if/when Hussie goes off on yet another irrelevant tangent about John or Dave or Kanaya, yet again inexplicably yanking us away from Vriska's ongoing story of self-realization.

Nah I'm just playing, I know all those guys have very important, meaningful roles to play in Vriska's heroic journey.

POS Industries

06-06-2011, 08:07 PM

I'm totally going to start posting about how everyone expressing a positive opinion of the comment is calling me an idiot for disliking things about it.

Actually, I'm going to start posting about how everyone expressing a positive opinion of the comment is calling you an idiot for disliking things about it.

Actually, I'm going to start calling you an idiot.

Ugly.
OH WHAT THE

Oooooooooh, you can't see it, but I'm shaking my fists in such frustration right now!

Damn you, Fiend! DAMN YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Specterbane

06-06-2011, 08:11 PM

Like this. (http://zoroko.deviantart.com/art/Mom-and-Dad-211051008)

That is amazing, so much more amazing than the rest of the crap going on in the thread. Loyal, thank you for that.

synkr0nized

06-07-2011, 05:18 AM

(RE: the colors I've been trying to claim magenta as my default for a while, now. If Synk can claim blue [...])

what is this I don't even

Oh, look at that -- you've triggered my ban reflex.

A Zarkin' Frood

06-07-2011, 06:27 AM

Guy, no offense, but your choice of colors is usually terrible. Whatever happened to subtlety? Whatever happened to respect for other people's eyes?

There are a few people (one) who seem to get it, though.

E: Hahaha, Vriska's heroic adventures, good song title.

Revising Ocelot

06-07-2011, 06:51 AM

I could adopt a Doc Scratch style typing colour, resulting in annoying highlighting. But nah.

rpgdemon

06-07-2011, 09:23 AM

That black actually doesn't entirely not show up.

In other news: I've had -this- color claimed for quite some time. Gerroff my color, you dern kids.

Fifthfiend

06-07-2011, 01:05 PM

what is this I don't even

Oh, look at that -- you've triggered my ban reflex.

Solid Snake: Worst fuckup, or greatest troll?

akaSM

06-07-2011, 01:12 PM

Why did Snake's name turn into a Seilier color?

Solid Snake

06-07-2011, 01:23 PM

Solid Snake: Worst fuckup, or greatest troll?

Fuck you too, Fifth. :P

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

06-08-2011, 01:06 AM

Update.
WHAT THE FUCK

Grimpond

06-08-2011, 01:09 AM

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk282/lordofchaos34/WAT.png

Dracorion

06-08-2011, 01:18 AM

Okay.

On the one hand, I am pissed at Hussie for making Vriska stronger than GrimdarkRose.

On the other, if Vriska is dead for realsies then... hell, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I know it's going to be a happy thing.

Also, RIP Spades Slick. You were my favorite character.

POS Industries

06-08-2011, 01:24 AM

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/1291836119951.jpg

Dracorion

06-08-2011, 01:27 AM

That technically wasn't a doomed timeline because Terezi did end up stabbing Vriska.

So no, you were wrong. Stuck in Wrongville with the rest of us.

Flarecobra

06-08-2011, 01:32 AM

Why was it I was going through and hitting "Next", just to see what happons next in the bannor instead of paying attention to the actual story?

Solid Snake

06-08-2011, 01:32 AM

Words cannot express my confusion.
Also, my disappointment with Hussie for wasting so much time trollin' with doomed timeline shenanigans.
But mostly, my elation at seeing Vriska stabbed. (I doubt she will stay dead though because Karkat has that conversation with John and Dave where he seems to refer to Terezi and Vriska as bein' around.)

...And perhaps a tiny teardrop of sadness over how POS is going to gloat like hell for the next few days. At least it wasn't the coin flip that was different, though.

POS Industries

06-08-2011, 01:32 AM

That technically wasn't a doomed timeline because Terezi did end up stabbing Vriska.

So no, you were wrong. Stuck in Wrongville with the rest of us.
But what we were shown was the offshoot timeline wherein Terezi did not stab Vriska, as viewed by Clover and Terezi, and any offshoot timelines are by their nature doomed.

Deal with it.

...And perhaps a tiny teardrop of sadness over how POS is going to gloat like hell for the next few days.

Nah, I'm already done. I mean, I know disagreeing with me about this stuff is fun and all but eventually y'all are gonna have to start paying attention to the pattern here.

...Okay, now I'm done.