Homesuck: Vriska Rising

[Krylo]

Also, my disappointment with Hussie for wasting so much time trollin' with doomed timeline shenanigans.


I think that was pretty important for Terezi's characterization, really. She wouldn't have stabbed a friend, even one as terrible as Vriska, unless she absolutely had to.

Without showing the doomed timeline, and what would have come of it, we would be left having to assume that Terezi was the type to stab a friend in the back.

Instead we are shown that Terezi is explicitly not the type to do that, but is willing to sacrifice her emotions for the safety of herself and her friends.

Edit: The coin toss is the same, but as Terezi explained (with Dave's toss) the coin toss isn't what changes the universe. It's how people react to it, and by flipping the coin she was able to read the results of Vriska's actions... and what would happen if she stayed her hand like she wanted to.

[POS Industries]

...There was a pattern?
Yes. The pattern about me always being right about the direction of the plot.

I mean, what else would I be talking about?

[synkr0nized]

Guy, no offense, but your choice of colors is usually terrible. Whatever happened to subtlety? Whatever happened to respect for other people's eyes?

If you can't handle non-dark colors on a black or near-black background, I wonder if it's rather your monitor or your eyes that are the problem.

[Art of Hilt]

HA HA HA
AHA HA HA
AHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

(So glad everyone is still alive; considering what we know happens in the future, Jack blowing up the troll base made no sense whatsoever)

[Solid Snake]

I think that was pretty important for Terezi's characterization, really.

I think Hussie could have done so in about half the panels to progress the plot sooner, but that being said, I do think this is a positive development for the plot overall.

And no, not just because Vriska was stabbed. (Because I don't think she'll be staying dead, anyway.)
I'm more glad that now all the previous buildup to a Terezi / Vriska confrontation that I felt was going nowhere (because Vriska flew off before the fight began) wasn't for naught.

[IHateMakingNames]

I'm kinda annoyed that he implied that Vriska would have won the fight.

One, because why the fuck is anyone just beating Jack. And then doesn't that make the timeline less doomed.

Still far more concerned with the banner. What the hell? Dead SS? Wasn't Scratch supposed to beat him severely?

[Token]

What the hell? Dead SS? Wasn't Scratch supposed to beat him severely?

Already happened. The horse hitcher was bent.

It wasn't heroic or just. Vriska will live. No, ladies and gentlemen, we all know who the real loss was today. Matchsticks. His death was most definitely heroic. All he wanted to do was put out a fire. Risking his own life. And now... now he's gone.

He wasn't the hero this story needs, but he was the hero this story deserved.

RIP, Matchsticks. You will be missed.
http://i.imgur.com/FbWTx.gif

[IHateMakingNames]

Already happened. The horse hitcher was bent.

I'm refering to this (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005524) panel. Scratch bends the horse hitcher a couple pages back to stop SS from hitting him in the dome with it.


And any death of Vriska is just, but yeah she's probably fine.

[Token]

Ah, right. Got mixed up.

[Kim]

It wasn't heroic or just.

It was just. It was essentially killing Vriska for being to blame for everyone dying in the doomed timeline.

[Marc v4.0]

It was just. It was essentially killing Vriska for being to blame for everyone dying in the doomed timeline.

Yeah, was about to say. They can only be slayed as a Hero, or as a Villian for a Just cause. This was pretty Just.

[Specterbane]

And Terezi is JUSTICE.

Also I think part of the reason so much time was spent trolling the viewer could easily be attributed to Doc Scratch being Doc Scratch, thus being characterization.

Ha Ha
Hee Hee
Hoo Hoo and all that.

[POS Industries]

Yeah, was about to say. They can only be slayed as a Hero, or as a Villian for a Just cause. This was pretty Just.
It was "just" from Terezi's point of view, but insofar as the qualifications for Vriska staying dead in god tier it was just her being stabbed in the back. It was neither her dying in a heroic blaze of glory (as she might have against Jack) nor her being stopped as she was actually doing anything villainous (as she arguably would have if Tavros had actually killed her).

Being killed because you have a stupid fairy dust trail that can be tracked isn't justice.

[Marc v4.0]

It was "just" from Terezi's point of view, but insofar as the qualifications for Vriska staying dead in god tier it was just her being stabbed in the back. It was neither her dying in a heroic blaze of glory (as she might have against Jack) nor her being stopped as she was actually doing anything villainous (as she arguably would have if Tavros had actually killed her).

Being killed because you have a stupid fairy dust trail that can be tracked isn't justice.

She was selfishly sacrificing the safety of her friends and people on a fools errand for the sake of glory. On top of that, she was responsible for the mess just so she could be the one to grab that glory. She openly boasted about being the cause of it all, justifying everything with a handwave of "Well, it already happened anyway", and then murdered the only other person to stand up to her. Those are the direct opposite acts and intentions of a Hero. On a cosmic and karmatic scale, Justice is served.

The very thing you claim would have counted if Tavros had killed her, being the mastermind of the entire disaster, did not stop being a thing that happened, irregardless of Terezi's knowledge of it. She was a Villian, no matter who brought justice to bear.

[POS Industries]

She was selfishly sacrificing the safety of her friends and people on a fools errand for the sake of glory.
Stupid, but not villainous and would be altogether irrelevant if not for it being the situation under which she was killed. She was going off to do something heroic that she couldn't be allowed to do because of extenuating circumstances.

Her going would have put everyone else at risk, but that didn't make it an evil act.

On top of that, she was responsible for the mess just so she could be the one to grab that glory. She openly boasted about being the cause of it all, justifying everything with a handwave of "Well, it already happened anyway", and then murdered the only other person to stand up to her. Those are the direct opposite acts and intentions of a Hero. On a cosmic and karmatic scale, Justice is served.

The very thing you claim would have counted if Tavros had killed her, being the mastermind of the entire disaster, did not stop being a thing that happened, irregardless of Terezi's knowledge of it. She was a Villian, no matter who brought justice to bear.
The problem is that she wasn't killed as punishment for her crimes. She was killed out of an immediate necessity that was completely separate from them.

[Marc v4.0]

Ok, the only other option here is that she wakes back up, Kills Terezi, goes off anyway and it all happens pretty much the same way.

If she could see what was going to happen if Vriska was left alive, don't you maybe think she would be able to tell if her actions were pointless?

[Dracorion]

Well, it's not like John got back up immediately. Something might happen to keep her from going off after the wakes up.

Like, I dunno, maybe Gamzee shows up. He's the one who put this shindig together anyway.

[Marc v4.0]

I forgot all about the gordamn clown...

[BitVyper]

Vriska still hasn't had John's first conversation with her. She might do it as she dies, but otherwise, she still has something to do.

As far as whether or not this qualifies as "just," well I figure you can go either way with that at this point, but I think the stronger case is for not-just. It's more the lame sort of just that I don't think counts for killing a god tier. Although there was a more cerebral duel going on here simply with Terezi's dare to Vriska (the coin toss) and Vriska's dare to Terezi(Here's my back), I think if Vriska is to die, paradox space will demand a more satisfying conclusion to her life. But whether or not she lives will be the very thing which defines "just" for us.

Anyway, this not-fight gave us a good idea of where Jack's upper limits are, and exactly how potentially powerful a god tier really can be. Imagine the XP reward dead timeline Vriska would get for taking him down.

Speaking of which, I'm beginning to think that the dead timelines are going to be more integral in some way during the future than they have been up to this point (and some of them have been pretty important already!).

Edit: And it's nice to see exactly how Terezi plays her role. Imagine her sight if she were god tier.

[Revising Ocelot]

I'm starting to get the impression we'll have a second Midnight Crew intermission once A5A2 wraps up. There's a lot of funky questions popping up. Such as why Quarters (badass Felt or most badass Felt?) is alive despite initially being stuck off - unless being connected to Clovers somehow preserves him, and how SS got that robo-arm in the first place. Also how SS survives being Swiss Cheese'd, because there's no way he's not getting back up with uber-revenge in mind.

Maybe round it off with Doc dying and LE summoning. That'd be neat.

[Loyal]

Ok, the only other option here is that she wakes back up, Kills Terezi, goes off anyway and it all happens pretty much the same way.

If she could see what was going to happen if Vriska was left alive, don't you maybe think she would be able to tell if her actions were pointless?Terezi did in fact tell her what would happen. Vriska simply brushed her off, resulting in the coinflip and Vriska daring TZ to stop her.

[Locke cole]

irregardless

OK, I agree with the things you're saying, but now I want to punch you.

[Marc v4.0]

Terezi did in fact tell her what would happen. Vriska simply brushed her off, resulting in the coinflip and Vriska daring TZ to stop her.

I think you misunderstood what I said there.

If Terezi could see that Vriska was going to run off and kill them all using her Seer powers, then she would also be able to See(r) if Vriska would just stand back up and do it anyway.


OK, I agree with the things you're saying, but now I want to punch you.

I literally could not care any less that someone else is annoyed by my informal grammar on the internet. Sorry.

[Geminex]

I am feeling SO V3RY SMUG R1GHT NOW, despite the fact that I did not actually do anything.

I can only assume that somewhere along the line, the whole thing split off into a beta timeline (my guess is Terezi's coin toss)

Also, I totally called it. If that counts for something.

[Dracorion]

No, you're just as wrong as POS.

I think you misunderstood what I said there.

If Terezi could see that Vriska was going to run off and kill them all using her Seer powers, then she would also be able to See(r) if Vriska would just stand back up and do it anyway.

I don't think it works like that. Terezi can see minds, not the future.

And if she doesn't already know that God Tiers can be killed via noble or just death, then I doubt she'd be able to see Vriska getting back up.

Further, even if she did know that, just because Terezi is under the impression that she's dealing out justice to Vriska doesn't necessarily make her right. Seer of Mind does not equal infallibility.

Also, she's a pretty shitty Legislacerator.

[Loyal]

Seer of Mind does not equal infallibility.

e.g. her singleminded obsession with pinning everything on Vriska during the Investigation bit.

[Red Mage Black]

What Loyal said. Due to both that and the fact Gamzee was taking advantage of it and planting evidence to egg Terezi on. Strange that her seer powers didn't allow her to see what was really happening.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, then again I've gone through the last few pages and found nothing like it. So, her killing Vriska might be less about her 'crimes' and more the fact that she was a liability, the fact if Vriska went off, everyone would be dead. AKA, "Her stupidity is going to get us all killed." Or, "It isn't so much what shes done, but what she's going to do."

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

What Loyal said. Due to both that and the fact Gamzee was taking advantage of it and planting evidence to egg Terezi on. Strange that her seer powers didn't allow her to see what was really happening.

That's always been part of the point with the trolls though, they're terribly shitty at their jobs.

Terezi has the makings of a great Legislacerator, but she's so single mindedly focused on the guilt of her initial suspects she never stops to consider alternatives. Magical powers or not, to her Vriska is guilty.Of course Vriska is guilty but that's not really the point. The point is she and everyone else in the troll session skipped over their quests and growth and it's gone really shitty for them as a result.


Aside which it seems to me that her powers would let her know Vriska was going to cheat, fly off and try to attack Jack. Not precisely what would happen as an effect of these actions.

She does however know that Jack is very near omnipotent, and that once Vriska's flown off to fight him, he'll be able to follow the trail right to the veil. Which makes it incredibly likely that win or lose, once he found the rest of the trolls they were going to die.

[rpgdemon]

I literally could not care any less that someone else is annoyed by my informal grammar on the internet. Sorry.

It's not informal grammar, it's blatantly just wrong, and not a word, and even if it was, it'd mean the opposite of what you assume that it means, Palin.

[Kim]

Terezi has the makings of a great Legislacerator, but she's so single mindedly focused on the guilt of her initial suspects she never stops to consider alternatives.

I thought that was what great legislacerators did. This is the troll universe after all.

[Loyal]

Great legislacerators are concerned with getting the real culprit eventually, but they're okay with a little (or a lot of) collateral damage along the way.

[Locke cole]

Yeah, I'm really interested in this aspect of the Trolls' story. They were aces at killing stuff and "winning" the game, but they absolutely sucked at the whole "coming of age story" part of the game. None of them grew up. It's why Tavros died, and it's why Equius died.

[Marc v4.0]

It's not informal grammar, it's blatantly just wrong, and not a word, and even if it was, it'd mean the opposite of what you assume that it means, Palin.

This matters. So much.

Irregardless.

[Revising Ocelot]

Almost like... powergamers?

Terezi has ALL THE SEEING POWERS (well, maybe), but doesn't quite use them properly and completely fails to notice the Gamzee influence. Vriska has ALL THE LUCK, but that just results in everyone else getting killed with her direct approach.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Almost like... powergamers?

Terezi has ALL THE SEEING POWERS (well, maybe), but doesn't quite use them properly and completely fails to notice the Gamzee influence. Vriska has ALL THE LUCK, but that just results in everyone else getting killed with her direct approach.

Terezi can see the truth, but only looks for it in one place.

Vriska has all the luck, but she's never learned that luck doesn't matter if you don't know what it is you really want.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Jegus christ on a cracker Hussie

[Locke cole]

This matters. So much.

Irregardless.

Well, at least you use "Literally" correctly.

[The SSB Intern]

Terezi can see the truth, but only looks for it in one place.

Vriska has all the luck, but she's never learned that luck doesn't matter if you don't know what it is you really want.

THOUGH MY EYES COULD SEE I STILL WAS A BLIND MAN.

THOUGH MY MIND COULD THINK I STILL WAS A MAD MAN.

Also, so glad Karkat's not dead. I wanna see more of his confrontation with Gamzee.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Okay upon reflection I can see how that series of events was important. It now establishes Terezi's motives as "Just" rather than "misguided". So Vriska may very well stay down. It also served the dual purpose of allowing more banner shenanigans. Anyways, I like Vriska, but I'd totally trade her for Terezi and Karkat any day.

[Marc v4.0]

Well, at least you use "Literally" correctly.

I fret to think of what would become of me without your approval

[Locke cole]

I fret to think of what would become of me without your approval

There there, champ. Just keep trying.

[Red Mage Black]

I fret to think of what would become of me without your approval

Can we stop with this grammar crap now? Not sure if this is all a joke or there truly is some ill feelings going on here.

Anyway, I still think the death has less to do with 'crimes' or if it's 'just' and more along the lines of, "I saw the future and I can't allow that to happen." Though it also seems like Gamzee set it up just SO Terezi could see what would happen if Vriska got her way and faced Jack. Maybe what Gamzee was doing, even after his psychotic rampage was Miracles.

[rpgdemon]

Can we stop with this grammar crap now?

I dunno. Can we?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I dunno. Can we?

rpg you're about to cross a fucking line with this shit I can't even see straight when people call out on will/can or when I say "Okay" as an affirmation of a command or request and they turn it into "This situation is okay"
"No, it's not okay!" THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT AND YOU KNOW IT DAMMIT

[rpgdemon]

The thing about can is, it's a completely legitimate question. It's like, "Can I do this, or are you going to sit there saying, 'I dunno, can you?' instead of answering my question?"

[Marc v4.0]

Smug Grammar Jerks are the best sub-type of Smug Jerks.

[Red Mage Black]

Fine fine, I get the point. Sorry I kind of missed the point with it, I guess sometimes even I find it hard to translate someones tone over the internet and its earned me bad rep in the past. Which, when I look back at the reasons why, I was a brat back then. I joined this forum over 7 years ago and for some reason, I still can't get the hang of it.

And touche rpg, I applaud you.

[Marc v4.0]

I wasn't...what?

[POS Industries]

Shut the fuck up about grammar, already.

Also: Quit being such a defensive asshole, Marc.

[Fifthfiend]

But then John awoke, and realized it had all been a ~big crazy dream~ all along.

[Aldurin]

But then John awoke, and realized it had all been a ~big crazy dream~ all along.

And he found out what his dad was actually smoking in his pipe.

[POS Industries]

The roof has all the mIrAcLeS. All of them.

[MuMu]

Karkat never misses a sloppy makeout and a psycho clown ain't gonna change that, dammit.

[Grimpond]

SLOPPY M4KEOUTS

[Bard The 5th LW]

Gamzee what the flipping fuck

[POS Industries]

Gamzee ships KarkatxTerezixVriska's bleeding corpse, obviously.

What's not to get?

[Bard The 5th LW]

So he's in the mood for some romantic entertainment before offing them both? I guess I can get that. Unfortunately, this may mean that Karkat is expecting a dead Gamzee (what with the blood), and has his guard down.

I guess Sollux is just hanging tight in the other room, respecting his bro's right to make-out?

[Dracorion]

Hey Karkat.

Don't turn your back on the body.

In other news, Hussie totally psyched us out with the dead Slick.

[POS Industries]

I guess Sollux is just hanging tight in the other room, respecting his bro's right to make-out?
Not like he could see anything anyway.

[Locke cole]

He plans to show up as the makeouts are happening.

Just... standing there.

Not watching.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So, I forget. Did Scratch ever elaborate on which body Karkat shouldn't turn his back on?
Cause there's a body right there. Which will presumably be rather miffed at his Matesprite should it get back up.
Edit: Oh goddammit Draco stop being on a page I'm not looking at.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Yeah Im getting the feeling that Vriska's about to get up and kill someone. Unless Gamzee is to show up at that precise moment to give them a common foe.

edit: Theory: If Vriska's actually dead then Gamzee's going to grab Vriska's dice when Karkat and Terezi are making out, and roll it. He will proceed to get 8^8 and go more apeshit with his ancestral awakening.

[Locke cole]

I wonder if Ancestral Awakening would turn him into Mindfang or the Grand Highblood.

[Dracorion]

I wouldn't put it past Hussie to make all those pictures of Homestuck characters crossdressing a reality.

[Art of Hilt]

So, I forget. Did Scratch ever elaborate on which body Karkat shouldn't turn his back on?

Not explicitly but by inference we could guess that it was Kanaya's, since he was responsible for that resurrection.
Keep in mind that he never said it was a warning, just a piece of advice, so "Don't turn your back" is more in the "Don't give up on the" sense rather than a "Watch out for the" sense.
The reason Doc Scratch did it like that is to freak Karkat out.
As a joke.

Also man Gamzee causing romantic drama whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaat aha ha ha ha ha

[Specterbane]

Wait, does this (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005741) mean at some point Rose or John was responding to Vriska? I assume we're going to miss that chat log, but isn't that interesting.

Also, the invitation was written in purple. Clearly Gamzee is shipping KarkatxGamzee for this. I mean he is his Best Friend.

[Art of Hilt]

It just means that the window to Vriska's last conversation to John, through Rose's account, is still open.
You can see the last bits of it in this panel:

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/03756.gif

Not so much a "conversation" as it is "Vriska typing out everything she wants to say and leaving it for John to read".

They sound like last words, don't they?

Most likely John is going to read the whole thing when he wakes up, and we'd see it too.

[Revising Ocelot]

Gamzee's MOTHERFUCKING JURY was actually a shipping table!

He didn't have Tavros' head up there as he still needed Vriska's head. :dance:

[Specterbane]

It just means that the window to Vriska's last conversation to John, through Rose's account, is still open.
You can see the last bits of it in this panel:

See I don't think he'd (Hussie) show it to us since we already saw it, but then again I didn't think he'd be putting up chat logs so that's still a very real possibility. Guess I'm just trying to hear what other people think about it.

[Arcanum]

It just means that the window to Vriska's last conversation to John, through Rose's account, is still open.

It's entirely more likely that John saw Vriska's message and is responding to her.

[Marc v4.0]

Yeah, every time we've seen that before, an active conversation was taking place.

[MuMu]

Never.

Also, nice dress Kan.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Kan's basically biting everybody.
Also I can't help but wonder how she might respond to Vriska's death.

[Loyal]

Guess we'll be looking into (:3:) Snowman shortly, as well.

[Dracorion]

Son of a bitch.

Are they really having sloppy makeouts?

Kan's basically biting everybody.
Also I can't help but wonder how she might respond to Vriska's death.

Probably with a peck on the cheek.

[Specterbane]

I think that's more of a "I'm so sorry you had to do that" hug, but who knows they could be.

[Arcanum]

You don't fuck with Snowman's kismesis. Not even in a timeline that hasn't happened yet.

Also yeah, my money is on Karkat and Terezi hugging, not having sloppy makeouts. But I've been wrong before.

[Flarecobra]

At least Kanaya is helping out Sollux. And Sollux can have something to remember Fefrei by.

[Arcanum]

And Sollux can have something to remember Fefrei by.

Hopefully he didn't go overboard (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005449) before deciding to just take the glasses.

[Flarecobra]

It's Sollux. When he goes overboard, stuff tends to explode.

[Ryong]

I was going to check what you guys mentioned about Snowman and oh fuck update!

[Fifthfiend]

But then John awoke, and realized it had all been a ~big crazy dream~ all along.

He goes off to school to tell his friend Dave, his girlfriend Rose, his sister Jade, his boyfriend Karl, his other girlfriend Veronica, and his other girlfriend's girlfriend Teresa all about the big crazy dream he had about all of them playing a game together.

But then he forgets about it, and they all just make out instead.

[Fifthfiend]

BUT THEN it turns out that was all just the Instrumentality, as John comes out of it, climbing into his EVA unit 413 to battle the dog-faced Kool-Aid Man for the sake of all mankind.

His father, Gendo Eggbert, steeples his hands

and watches

...and bakes a cake

[Flarecobra]

Just how big IS that rooftop?

And I notice Gamzee's horns are all reddish-orange... and his eyes were the same color as Terezi's now...

Does this mean his eyes are damaged?

[Loyal]

No, Andrew just does that sometimes for simplicity's sake.

[Specterbane]

Clearly it's cause Gamzee's angry that he's not getting "SLOPPY M4K3OUTS" with his "BeSt MoThErFuCkIn FrIeNd".

[Premmy]

How the fuck did he get that hammer?

[Loyal]

We don't know how he got it, but we do know that he's had it for awhile, ever since we learned what his Strife specibus was.

[Flarecobra]

His new one at least.

[Revising Ocelot]

Also the Zillyhoo flash. And Gamzee had that same look going just before he club-decapitated (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005358) Nepeta.

So by extension we're going to see what makes Karkat cry now (barring some non-sequiter cut to Exiles).

[POS Industries]

Happy 6/12, everybody!

Also, fun fact: Act 5 is now officially as long as the entirety of Problem Sleuth.

[Bard The 5th LW]

By coincidence, this is also the One Solar Sweep anniversary of Homestuck

edit: And upon reflectionIt is very likely that Vriska will survive this, seeing as how John has used her dice for Alchemization with Zillyhoo.

[rpgdemon]

Why is 612 an important number? It's come up exactly twice in the archives, I checked.

[Loyal]

Beginning date of Hivebent. Age of trolls + Number of trolls.

[Marc v4.0]

By coincidence, this is also the One Solar Sweep anniversary of Homestuck

edit: And upon reflectionIt is very likely that Vriska will survive this, seeing as how John has used her dice for Alchemization with Zillyhoo.

She could have provided the code for the Dice in her obvious farewell chat.

[Loyal]

Daaaaamn, Snowman.

[MuMu]

Predicting a Sloppy Makeouts 2: Angry Makeout

[Locke cole]

So it looks as though Vriska is going to resurrect, unless she typed out this new message to John before Terezi showed up.

[POS Industries]

So it looks as though Vriska is going to resurrect, unless she typed out this new message to John before Terezi showed up.
She did.

[Geminex]

I am choosing to interpret this update as confirmation that Vriska, as a prospitian, will die a heroic death.

...

WHELP

[Bard The 5th LW]

Is there anything more to do with the clock than the clock itself? Like, am I missing part of some grat flash?

And goddammit Vriska if you did't tell John how to revive Rose I will be very dissapointed

[POS Industries]

Is there anything more to do with the clock than the clock itself? Like, am I missing part of some grat flash?
Nope, it's just a stupid clock.

And goddammit Vriska if you did't tell John how to revive Rose I will be very dissapointed
Has Vriska ever actually said anything helpful?

EDIT: Though considering how the Midnight Crew were setting out to destroy a shit load of clocks in the Felt hideout while also setting out to destroy a shitload of Felt members, there might be some specific significance to the clocks in relation to the lives of god tier players.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Someone better tell him I swear to god!

Even Scratch! He seemed to take an interest n Rose! Maybe he can intervene! I'm grasping at straws here but John just seemed too happy before the scratch for Rose to be dead. Although he was also too happy for his father to be dead.

[Krylo]

John was about to reset the universe bringing everyone back to life*. Why wouldn't he be happy?

*Well more like making them never die in the first place, but the end result is living mom and dad and maybe Rose, so.

[MuMu]

He didn't really get a lot of time to think about Dad, one second he was looking at his corpse, the other he was shaking his hand.

[Specterbane]

I'm just going to drop down the link to THIS (http://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/even-in-death) song and say it might just be relevant somehow to recent events.

[POS Industries]

Well, he didn't have a lot of time to take in Dad's death, and John isn't really the sort to lose his shit in a blind rage. He wasn't happy about it, but he did appear to get serious'd up in the three seconds between seeing Dad's death, deciding to fight Jack, and being stabbed like a chump.

[Bard The 5th LW]

John was about to reset the universe bringing everyone back to life*. Why wouldn't he be happy?

*Well more like making them never die in the first place, but the end result is living mom and dad and maybe Rose, so.

Scratch did say that the Scratch will probably make it so they all lived totally different lives. Maybe not even the same people? Who knows. But I guess John may very well be in the dark about that. And he doesn't have to be in a total berserk rage, I was just expecting a little less elation from a dude who's dad and friend just died. The whole "sorta cheerful" thing is what leads to me believe Rose lives. As well as John seeming to know the details of the Scratch, as Rose seemed to be the only person in the know beforehand.

[POS Industries]

Unless there's another plan involving the Scratch.

[rpgdemon]

Anyone else find it strange that the clock goes a tiny bit towards derse right when it starts, then back to prospit?

I thought it was just something to do with the looping at first, but looking again, you can see that there are frames leading up to it going partially towards derse, it doesn't just jump there like it would if it went to the wrong frame of the loop.

[Marc v4.0]

So what you are saying is Aliens, then?

I find it more unnerving that the clock doesn't move when I go to a different window

[Aldurin]

Now I'm surprised that Snowman went out of her way just to save SS. Especially after what she did to his eye and arm.

[Kim]

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1523/dokidokischoolstuck02.jpg

[Flarecobra]

Includes Random Gamzee I notice.

[rpgdemon]

Pantskat is, for some reason, awesome. I can't tell why.

[Kim]

Part one for those interested (http://raakelh.tumblr.com/post/5603364182/amazing-homestuck-doujinshi)

I love the random-ass name changes

[Fifthfiend]

Now I'm surprised that Snowman went out of her way just to save SS. Especially after what she did to his eye and arm.

let me just explain you about kismesis *WORKDS*

[Solid Snake]

Honestly, this most disappointing thing about this update was really apparently that Vriska shrugged off her newfound crush on Kanaya so quickly

Kind of surprised in that context that she's more interested in John

[Marc v4.0]

Sloppy makeouts indeed

[Fifthfiend]

*WORKDS*

Alternately, pictures.

Extremely disturbing pictures.

[Dracorion]

GOD

THESE UPDATES

I DONT EVEN

FUCK

I'm not sure if I'm more disturbed by the banner or the actual pages. Might be a tie.

[Fifthfiend]

Sincerely considering requesting a namechange to "Hate Snog"

[Locke cole]

For a second there, I thought Jack was about to be extremely stupid and kill Snowman.

[POS Industries]

Honestly, this most disappointing thing about this update was really apparently that Vriska shrugged off her newfound crush on Kanaya so quickly

Kind of surprised in that context that she's more interested in John
Who's to say she doesn't want both? It's not exactly unlike Vriska to want all the matesprits. All of them.

[Loyal]

Who's to say she doesn't want both? It's not exactly unlike Vriska to want all the matesprits. All of them.

Pretty much this. Failing that, I'm not sure why it's a big deal for someone, Vriska or no, to have feelings for more than one person at a time. Kanaya and to a lesser extent Sollux, for instance.

The only problem I had with this update is that Doc Scratch is taking away our Narrow Fenestrated Wall. Or at least moving it away from the HATESNOGGING.

[Dracorion]

Technically, she's still crushing on Nic Cage, so that's three Matesprits she's shooting for.

I think the worst part of all this is I'm finding Vriska adorable and hating myself for it.

Damn you, Hussie!

[Specterbane]

That's just the thing, anyone interacting with John (and usually Jade to some extent) is adorable. It's like a blood line trait I think since Dad had it, as did Grandma.

After all, was Karkat ever more adorable than when he was white knighting for Jade from the future to his past self? Really his "<3 <3" type message to Terezi is the only thing that can come close I think.

[Flarecobra]

Well, the writing was on the Shipping Wall, so to speak, for Vriska and John. Not that surprised really.

[POS Industries]

Guys, guys. We're missing the important thing here.

John is not a wimp and is going to kiss the girl. Hearts Boxcars would be proud.

[Dracorion]

And then it turns out he was too late.

[POS Industries]

And then it turns out he was too late.
I don't think there's such a thing as too late.

I mean, Feferi had to portal jump all the way from her planet to Sollux's to revive him. This couldn't have taken that long.

[Bard The 5th LW]

John you best not chicken out

[Marc v4.0]

Well, duh. He's a hero. He has to be all heroic and shit.

[Dracorion]

I don't think there's such a thing as too late.

I mean, Feferi had to portal jump all the way from her planet to Sollux's to revive him. This couldn't have taken that long.

Equius cleared his world in like five minutes.

Feferi might not have been quite as fast, but given the urgency I'm betting she was pretty fucking fast.

Admittedly, though, we don't know how long it took Tavros to fly all the way from where Vriska got mauled by Aradia to her quest cocoon.

[Solid Snake]

If John is like "Aww Vriska likes me so much and I like her so much that it would a betrayal for me to kiss Rose, because Vriska is so amazing and deserves my exclusive affection, even though my inability to kiss Rose means that she will be permadead," I will officially declare that update the worst update ever.

Fortunately this is not actually an outcome I am legitimately fearing, and frankly, everything with SS, his kismesis and the flustered Doc has me in such a good mood I might forgive Hussie even if he does the unthinkable.

[Bard The 5th LW]

What has me worried is the similarities between the pages and banners. We have been shown a similar series of events happening, so while it makes sense for John to kiss Rose at the same time as Slick and Snowman, it would be just as likely for him to break the pattern and not kiss her.

[Kim]

He has to, else it'll become a doomed timeline.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Just like how Tavros, Feferi, Eridan, Nepeta, and Equius dying all caused doomed timelines?

[Kim]

-_-

More because the person who can see John's future says that they can't do the things they're already confirmed to be doing in the future unless Rose lives and the only way we currently know Rose can live is if he kisses her.

[Fifthfiend]

John is like "Aww Vriska likes me so much and I like her so much that it would a betrayal for me to kiss Rose, because Vriska is so amazing and deserves my exclusive affection, even though my inability to kiss Rose means that she will be permadead,"

This would own so hard.

edit: I mean, what dude wouldn't start feeling exclusive for a fine-lookin' troll lady who's so bighearted she decides to stop making fun of the guy who got himself crippled even after he got himself stabbed through the chest.

That's the kind of woman you gotta romance.

[Locke cole]

That makes no sense when you consider it's Vriska tellin' him to do it. We've never seen any real romantic inclinations from John to Vriska, just his signature brand of derpy adorableness/friendship/whatever.

Plus, in her own way, Vriska's been right about the various game mechanics she's told him about, so for him to not try at this point would be stupid beyond even John's capacity for being so.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Update.
ohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckoh fuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfu ckohfuck

[Bard The 5th LW]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccc cccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Cliffhangers approaching critical mass

[Fifthfiend]

Hahahahahaha

1001/1000

[Viridis]

Hm. What's happening depends on if the clock just shows whether a death is Just/Heroic or actually has some control.

Also, Doc's befuddlement regarding the snogging is just precious.

[Flarecobra]

Geez, SS, chill out.

And I see the forge is up and running.

[Loyal]

Seems the snogging also involved some biting.

[POS Industries]

Seems the snogging also involved some biting.
Actually, that's Quarters' blood on their lips.

[Art of Hilt]

Hm. What's happening depends on if the clock just shows whether a death is Just/Heroic or actually has some control.


I am about 90% sure that breaking the clock would affect Vriska's revival in the same way that breaking a clock would freeze time itself.

[Solid Snake]

If this means what I desperately yearn for it to mean, Spades Slick is now the best character ever and this update will go down as the update that makes everything awesome again.

Somehow I doubt it, though.

[Intern Nin]

Hm. What's happening depends on if the clock just shows whether a death is Just/Heroic or actually has some control.
I am about 90% sure that breaking the clock would affect Vriska's revival in the same way that breaking a clock would freeze time itself.
Also, take a look at what weapon he's using to destroy it.

[Solid Snake]

SSSSHHHH

None of you are allowed to destroy my dreams until Andrew Hussie does it himself

[Loyal]

If this means what I desperately yearn for it to mean, Spades Slick is now the best character ever and this update will go down as the update that makes everything awesome again.

You say this as though Slick were not already the greatest.

Actually, that's Quarters' blood on their lips.Kinky.

[POS Industries]

Also, take a look at what weapon he's using to destroy it.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/1306857018031.jpg

[Solid Snake]

What is so significant about the weapon he's using to destroy it, again?
Aside from apparently a correlation to Star Trek.

[Intern Nin]

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003213
Edit: Exact quote:
"You do this because of course you know that Crowbar's CROWBAR will destroy any temporal artifact and completely negate its effect on the timeline."

[Kim]

I had to have POS tell me, too.

It's Crowbar's crowbar, and it negates any effect clocks and shit have on the timeline or something. I'm too lazy to find the exact quote, but basically, even if that clock did have an effect on Vriska's ultimate fate, it doesn't now.

[Revising Ocelot]

Why would Jack sit in an erupting volcano?

[Fifthfiend]

Why would Jack sit in an erupting volcano?

Because he can.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Considering the forge is possibly the only thing that can destroy the ring, I doubt he was actually sitting right inside of it.

[Locke cole]

Jack's an omnipotyrant. He can hide wherever he damn well pleases.

I am about 90% sure that breaking the clock would affect Vriska's revival in the same way that breaking a clock would freeze time itself.

This is a clock owned by Doc Scratch, possibly commissioned by Lord English, and is sitting in, what I assume, is a parlor room in the Felt's mansion.

To act certain that that clock doesn't freeze time or whatever is rather irresponsible.

[Viridis]

It's Crowbar's crowbar, and it negates any effect clocks and shit have on the timeline or something. I'm too lazy to find the exact quote, but basically, even if that clock did have an effect on Vriska's ultimate fate, it doesn't now.....that's what I was saying, though. That the clock, possibly, rules a death Just and allows her to die, but with it broken she might revive.

Just random speculation, though.

[Krylo]

....that's what I was saying, though. That the clock, possibly, rules a death Just and allows her to die, but with it broken she might revive.

Just random speculation, though.

Alternatively, it might be the thing that does the actual reviving if a death isn't ruled Just or Heroic.

[Viridis]

Alternatively, it might be the thing that does the actual reviving if a death isn't ruled Just or Heroic.Good point. I guess we'll have to wait and see what breaking it does.

[IHateMakingNames]

And/or it can be destroying the rule that Just or Heroic deaths are needed, thus making God Tiers completely immortal or killable by anything.

[Loyal]

In short, it tells us utterly nothing on its own until Andrew chooses to elaborate.

[Fifthfiend]

It kills John again.

I base this prognostication on the fact that it's been at least seven or eight updates since John was last killed.

[Solid Snake]

Dammit Hussie

Why do you do this to me
This was pretty much just solely basically a "Fuck you Snake" update
Like there needs to be an image created
Of Andrew Hussie basically stroking a pet cat
And a voodoo doll of Solid Snake on his desk with pin needles in it
And he is cackling like a James Bond villain

...I am reasonably certain at this juncture that if there is a personal hell for everyone who dies, tailor-crafted to fit each person's individual worst fears, the angel of death that comes to take my soul will be in the form of an invincible Vriska Serket

EDIT: Come on even if you hate me for hating Vriska so much at least give me credit for trying to be funny instead of serious about it this time

[Kim]

I dunno. This update really gave one of the reasons you hated Vriska a fair amount of context that made it fairly understandable, and shows that the side of her that *is* good is actually developing so she's not just a horrible person. Like, she hasn't done anything awful AFAIK since she killed Tavros and come on that was hilarious.

[Locke cole]

...This is a "Fuck you Snake" update because Vriska might not be dead for good?

I like that mental image of Bond Villain Hussie.

He is The Man With The Yellow Yard.

[Fifthfiend]

EDIT: Come on even if you hate me for hating Vriska so much at least give me credit for trying to be funny instead of serious about it this time

Any points you gain from this are lost for having still thought anyone's death means anything.

I dunno. This update really gave one of the reasons you hated Vriska a fair amount of context that made it fairly understandable, and shows that the side of her that *is* good is actually developing so she's not just a horrible person. Like, she hasn't done anything awful AFAIK since she killed Tavros and come on that was hilarious.

P. much all this.

I mean damn Snake, it's been as much as a couple of hours since she murdered that loser, can't you just get over it and see how much she's grown since then? Can't you even acknowledge how great it was when she rubbed his face in how hilariously disfigured he is?

[Loyal]

I dunno. This update really gave one of the reasons you hated Vriska a fair amount of context that made it fairly understandable, and shows that the side of her that *is* good is actually developing so she's not just a horrible person. Like, she hasn't done anything awful AFAIK since she killed Tavros and come on that was hilarious.Yeah, I mean just from http://i.imgur.com/VhbTE.gif, that flash was pretty amazing.

...This is a "Fuck you Snake" update because Vriska might not be dead for good? I think he's being sarcastic about the rampant egoism.

[Kim]

I mean damn Snake, it's been as much as a couple of hours since she murdered that loser, can't you just get over it and see how much she's grown since then?This loses points for pretending time means anything in Homestuck.

[Fifthfiend]

This loses points for pretending time means anything in Homestuck.

You're right, if she'd felt a little bad a couple of minutes after killing that cripple that would have been all the character growth she needed anyway.

[Solid Snake]

I dunno. This update really gave one of the reasons you hated Vriska a fair amount of context that made it fairly understandable, and shows that the side of her that *is* good is actually developing so she's not just a horrible person. Like, she hasn't done anything awful AFAIK since she killed Tavros and come on that was hilarious.

I dislike Andrew's increasing attempts of garnering sympathy and portraying Vriska in a positive light even more than I despised Vriska back when she just more or less a one-note villain, believe it or not.

Oh! I think I've stumbled upon a perfect comparison to make to describe this to all of you.

NOTE: If you hate me blabbing about Vriska please skip all of this, seriously, this will just make you hate me or something.

It reminds me of this time when I disliked a girl that one of my best friends wanted to hook me up with in college.
She made a terrible first impression on me for a variety of reasons and I frankly told my best friend that I just plain didn't consider her personality attractive.

But like, at that moment, I didn't hate her or anything. I just said "We are not a good match, I'd like to meet other people instead."
Well my best friend was very persistent so I went out on a couple more group outings where I saw her and we had a few short conversations. But I just couldn't possibly like her and nearly everything she said annoyed me in some way, and so while I never got to a point theoretically comparable to hating her for killing anybody or anything, I definitely was just fed up with the notion that we were a perfect match.

So I told my friend, "She may be a nice girl and everything, but she is not my cup of tea. I'd appreciate it if we could hang out like we used to without her around, because your fixation with hooking us up is ruining our friendship."
But instead of respecting my wishes and giving up, my friend continued to throw her onto me, demand I justify exactly what I disliked about her, deem all attempts of justifications unsatisfactory, and in the end my friendship with this guy was basically tarnished because he really liked this friend of his that I refused to date and was personally offended that I didn't feel the same way.

It's the same thing with Homestuck but Andrew Hussie is now "my best friend" and this character Vriska is "this girl he thinks I'd really like." Only she made a terrible first impression and I think quite poorly of her, which surprised Andrew because he thought Vriska was the bee's knees. So now he's repeatedly thrusting Vriska into every imaginable situation, making our friendship (Homestuck) revolve around her, attempting to portray her as sympathetically as possible, retconning and revealing plot points along the way intended to make me say "Aww." But he just can't quite understand that first impressions are everything, that sometimes a serious issue (like murder) isn't something easily forgiven or forgotten, and he's going to ruin our friendship because he's more obsessed with me liking this one girl he thinks is his pride and joy, more than he likes all the former stuff (everything Homestuck was about before it was the Vriska Show) we used to bond over.

This began in my mind as a brilliant comparison but it now feels like a terrible comparison but I'm leaving it here anyways because I bothered to type it out so welp.

[IHateMakingNames]

If it helps, Vriska is still a total bitch.

On a better note, I'm guessing Dave dies.

But we'll get another double make out session. With people coming back to life.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Really, Vriska is only sympathetic when she is talking to John. In just about any other instance, she reverts to her more horrible self. Makes sense since she is probably trying to make him view her more sympathetically. Otherwise, I haven't found many instances where the story really did much to make us like Vriska more other. A couple moments make us feel a bit sorry for her, but not make her any more likeable.

[Aldurin]

That last page was two doses of awesome in ways that were equally same and different. Also the fact that it's Vriska's clock that was hit by a Crowbar of Greater Temporal Nullification just builds the suspense. I'm liking how this is going.

[Krylo]

On a better note, I'm guessing Dave dies.

Does Dave still have a dream self? With all the time shenanigans and doomed Daves I've lost track.

[Solid Snake]

That last page was two doses of awesome in ways that were equally same and different. Also the fact that it's Vriska's clock that was hit by a Crowbar of Greater Temporal Nullification just builds the suspense. I'm liking how this is going.

By no means should my traditional barrage of endless criticism of Hussie take away from the fact that I actually think today's updates were the best Homestuck has had in some time; from the artwork of Rose's face in the last update with John and Rose to a Clover-headed Doc to OMG JADE AND DAVE ARE BACK to "...oh shit, Jack," this was really all wonderfully done.

The fact that I am stupidly bitter over Hussie teasing me about Vriska before she inevitably comes back to life in time to save the trolls from Gamzee and become a heroine does not change this.

[Krylo]

The fact that I am stupidly bitter over Hussie teasing me about Vriska before she inevitably comes back to life in time to save the trolls from Gamzee and become a heroine does not change this.

Psh. Kanaya is fast and strong enough to Ro-sham-bo Gamzee, cold clock Vriska, and rip magically super charged Eridan in half all before anyone can react with her sparklepire powers.

[Locke cole]

Does Dave still have a dream self? With all the time shenanigans and doomed Daves I've lost track.

Yeah, he still does. It's been relatively quiet on Derse's moon.

Personal thoughts on Vriska: She's still done horrible stuff, and I don't think I'll ever quite forgive her for crippling Tavros (or killing him, but her crippling him is what initially instilled a fiery hatred for her in me, before I even knew her name). However, relatively recent developments about how thoroughly she tried to be Mindfang have made me switch from abject hatred to feelings of... well, not quite sympathy, more like pity. Her trying to follow that journal, and being disappointed by real life time and again, have thoroughly screwed up her childhood and the lives of everyone around her. I won't go in depth. Suffice it to say that I can imagine she'd probably have been less horrible if she hadn't been using that damn journal like a Gamefaqs walkthrough for Real Life.

And I can't help but smile a bit at her wanting to be responsible for everything involving Jack, but not wanting to be responsible for John finding out about his dad. Even though, by her logic, she's kindasorta partially paradoxically responsible for his dad's death in the first place.

Of course, if she had told him, he might not have suffered a mildly annoying death.

Also, she turned out to be the least despicable murderer on the asteroid after Eridan and Gamzee reared their homicidal heads.

[Amake]

Hey Snake, I know you know first impressions aren't always right. You complain Hussie is constantly insisting that you give Vriska another chance, but have you thought about giving her another chance?

*guilt-tripping puppy eyes*

So anyway I'm with the theory that crowbaring the clock cancels the special conditions that make it possible for our godly thief to die. Which could mean that she can't die at all or that she could die from anything. The latter seems much more likely to me, but I'm mostly going by an instinctual grasp of physics that I imagine extends to the metaphysics of the comic. Which I imagine I understand.

And of course everyone can be resurrected seemingly in a myriad of ways. Kind of reminds me of someone saying the trouble with the game is seeing through the myriad of various instructions, guides, walkthroughs and cheats available and figure out how to actually play the game instead of spending all time figuring out how to play the game. Or words to that effect. If those who are dead are to come back to life, who is going to do it? Why, how and when? Will they pay a price? Will we?

[Solid Snake]

How the heck do the mechanics of Dave's dreamself work when he's time-traveling and multiple iterations of his real self are present at once? Is his dreamself awake whenever any version of himself is 'asleep?' Wouldn't that mean his dreamself would nearly always be awake? Or is Dave pulling several time-traveling trips without sleeping at all?

[Arhra]

Dave doesn't sleep.

He waits.

Y'know, Dave and Jade messing around with those frogs is pretty adorable.

[rpgdemon]

Saw this as someone's avatar while lurking in the MSPA forums.

It amused me.

http://www.mspaforums.com/image.php?u=1022221&dateline=1308245705

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Update.

THIS IS AN ALBATROCITY. D=

[Fifthfiend]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Solid Snake]

Yyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss
Christmas has come early in the Solid Snake residence!!!

[Locke cole]

I love how Scratch isn't all that fazed by "murdering the help" or "casual arson"

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Yyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss
Christmas has come early in the Solid Snake residence!!!

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

[Fifthfiend]

Yyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss
Christmas has come early in the Solid Snake residence!!!

She will rise again, as all TRUE HEROES inevitably do.

[rpgdemon]

I hope that she's back. I liked her, despite everything. And Tavros was one of my favorite trolls, so I ought to have hated her.

[MuMu]

gog damn, Jade is packing some heat

[Ryong]

Jade's packing some heat? Dave finally has the Scarlet Ribbitar, man.

Also, I was expecting some Nic Cage music with Vriska's death.

[Intern Nin]

Huh, that's pretty dead. Never mind.

In other news, looks like we may be in for the legendary Beatdown x3 combo.

[Krylo]

Alternatively, it might be the thing that does the actual reviving if a death isn't ruled Just or Heroic.

AHEM.

[Intern Nin]

What do you want, a fucking medal?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

AHEM.

Actually I think the clock went over to JUST right before Slick hit it, so really either way she was pretty dead.
What I mean was that it still might be just a tracker of the judgement, and it just happened that she was never going to be revived regardless of what Slick did.

[Fifthfiend]

Yyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss
Christmas has come early in the Solid Snake residence!!!

On the plus side, now she's where that loser cripple is.

Maybe now she can fix that "walking around on legs" problem for him that he's had since he died.

[Loyal]

gog damn, Jade is packing some heat

Where were you when she went on an Alchemizing spree?

[Aldurin]

Yes, Vriska is currently dead right now. It is most likely that they are actually dead pre-revival (the whole "dead" sound they make when they die has been reserved to the trolls, even if it's because they're the ones doing all the dying.)

Also, Aradia needs to help the trolls with undying now that she's the only one who's currently alive and the only one with undying experience.

[Krylo]

What do you want, a fucking medal?

Yes.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Snake, if you want to really bask in that death joy, then you got to make it your wallpaper so you get to enjoy the sight every time you load your desktop.

someone made this

http://i52.tinypic.com/2m6vpzb.gif

[Aldurin]

But then he would have to give up his Pinkie Pie wallpaper.

[Fifthfiend]

Assuming she's perma-dead, can we shut the fuck up about Vriska finally? The whole hate/like/sarcastic-fake-like/ranting is bloody tiresome.

Starting with this post.

If, by the end of the comic, Vriska has indeed remained dead, and not been brought back to life, and also for whatever reason not appeared with the other characters who are dead, who have despite being dead been seen interacting with the characters who are dreaming and/or time gods, then we can totally retroactively shut up about Vriska.

In the interim you of course could stop telling people to shut the fuck up about Vriska, which is infinitely more tiresome than any actual opinion that anybody has expressed about this character.

[Ryong]

Krylo, I'm not sure how exactly you've proved that the clock is what revives Vriska.

No one will ever shut up about Vriska or about people telling people to shut up about Vriska. Ever.

[Fifthfiend]

Krylo, I'm not sure how exactly you've proved that the clock is what revives Vriska.

No one will ever shut up about Vriska or about people telling people to shut up about Vriska. Ever.

It's a bright, sunshine-filled future indeed.

[Kim]

That wallpaper needs better fading off on the left side of Nic Cage

[Token]

On the plus side, now she's where that loser cripple is.

Maybe now she can fix that "walking around on legs" problem for him that he's had since he died.

I want this to happen more than I have ever wanted anything.

[rpgdemon]

That wallpaper needs better fading off on the left side of Nic Cage

That's the actual comic's doing though, isn't it?

[BitVyper]

Aw, poor Vriska. Well, here's hoping she comes back. John took at least a few minutes to auto-rez, after all. Nice to see straight confirmation on her feelings for John, at any rate.

Also: Looks like Dave finally made the Scarlet Ribbitar.

[Intern Nin]

Yes.

Here. Have your undeserved medal.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/InternNin/Afuckingmedal.png
And one that you actually earned.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/InternNin/Anotherfuckingmedal.png

[BitVyper]

Yeah well, there was no good competition this year.

I was busy at the international finals.

[Krylo]

Here. Have your undeserved medal.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/InternNin/Afuckingmedal.png
And one that you actually earned.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/InternNin/Anotherfuckingmedal.png

Possible new avatar? Sig maybe?

[Bard The 5th LW]

http://i.imgur.com/nuoey.gif

dunno what its supposed to mean, but its certainly a reaction

[Token]

http://i.imgur.com/nuoey.gif

dunno what its supposed to mean, but its certainly a reaction

Wow. The autism is strong in this one.

[Pip Boy]

Wow. The awesomism is strong in this one.
FTFY

[Solid Snake]

Here. Have your undeserved medal.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/InternNin/Afuckingmedal.png
And one that you actually earned.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/InternNin/Anotherfuckingmedal.png

...Okay, that was hysterical.

[Marc v4.0]

I'm with that the clock didn't actually have anything to do with judging a Just or Heroic death, only keeping track of it. The Session itself makes the judgement. Why would the Troll session clock in the possession of the Troll session First Guardian be able to judge John? The logic doesn't follow.

[Viridis]

I'm with that the clock didn't actually have anything to do with judging a Just or Heroic death, only keeping track of it. The Session itself makes the judgement. Why would the Troll session clock in the possession of the Troll session First Guardian be able to judge John? The logic doesn't follow.Hussie is deciding not to answer this (http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/205977743303664796). I think he's doing this to leave it ambiguous whether her actions actually made her death Just or not. At least for now.

[Marc v4.0]

I choose to believe her death was due to the circumstances of her choices, and not some random clock abuse.

[Krylo]

I'm with that the clock didn't actually have anything to do with judging a Just or Heroic death, only keeping track of it. The Session itself makes the judgement. Why would the Troll session clock in the possession of the Troll session First Guardian be able to judge John? The logic doesn't follow.

We were never shown where the clock was until it was judging Vriska. You're making an assumption that there is only one clock in the Troll session and not another in the kids' session that is still working fine.

Why would a clock in the troll session in the possession of the troll session first guardian even be keeping track of John? He's in an entirely different universe.

[Dracorion]

Personally, I'm choosing to believe that Scratch wouldn't involve himself with events to the point where he would own a clock that decides whether a God Tier lives or dies, because that would effectively make him responsible.

[Marc v4.0]

Well, Scratch is the one with the Clocks 'thing' going on, why wouldn't it be the same clock? Considering his nature, It is more simple for the clock to be just a observation tool that he can focus on a subject then a coincidental copy of one in a different session that coincidentally is owned by a guy that has time-based minions and clock-related deco.

Hell, he has a model of the Kid's battlefield. Did you happen to forget that?

[Krylo]

Well, Scratch is the one with the Clocks 'thing' going on, why wouldn't it be the same clock? Considering his nature, It is more simple for the clock to be just a observation tool that he can focus on a subject then a coincidental copy of one in a different session that coincidentally is owned by a guy that has time-based minions and clock-related deco.

Hell, he has a model of the Kid's battlefield. Did you happen to forget that?

Each session contains many things that are exactly the same.

And where's the copy of the kid's battlefield? 'Cause I don't remember that at all. I know he has a model of A battlefield, but I don't remember it being specified as either session's. And the battlefield, much like prospit and derse, should look exactly the same between sessions.

Also, why assume there is a guy owning it? If there were it'd probably be Jade's Grandpa, but there's no reason to assume such.

In every session things play out very similarly and the exact same things are around as created by SBurb. Every session has Prospit and Derse. Every session has a battlefield that looks like a giant chess board + geomap. Every session has a black king, black queen, white king, and white queen. Every session has a Jack Noir. Every session has a forge. Every...

Well you're getting the idea.

You're making a pretty large assumption by deciding that there is only one god tier clock and it's only in the Troll session. Regardless of its exact effects: whether watching or actively judging.

FURTHER Why would Scratch need a clock? He's omniscient. He'd know if a god tier was going to die justly or not. The only purpose for all his models and what not is showing things to guests. Not so much for his own use.

Edit: It is also very odd, if the Clock only had the effect of watching, that Vriska died immediately after Jack broke the clock.

[Marc v4.0]

I assumed it was the Kid's battlefield, but it could be the trolls or just a model. Fair enough.

Every session doesn't have a Cue-ball headed Guardian with an obession for Time and a mansion full of CLOCKS and tools for viewing and communicating. I'm unconvinced that has nothing at all to do with him owning a CLOCK that either judges or shows God Tier death.

Why would he need 1000 clocks to begin with? Why are you ignoring the very thing he has made sure to hammer at us every time he talks to someone else or us? He doesn't know everything. He has particular blank spots when it comes to the game and how it works beyond the scope of what he needs to facilitate his purpose. It is completely plausable that he really doesn't know.

Jack's action having anything to do with Vriska's death was, as Viridis pointed out, left ambiguous even from word of god.

I remain unonvinced that it had any bearing, much like breaking a real clock doesn't stop time. Having that sort of power laying around in the same universe as a crowbar that could completely destroy it for everyone involved seems unlikely.

edit: Having read Hussie's FS response, I am now convinced he just wants people to argue over it. The Jerk.

[Krylo]

It is completely plausable that he really doesn't know.Not really. God Tiers die under very specific dramatic circumstances. It shouldn't be hard for a guy who knows more or less everything about how a session operates to be able to tell whether or not certain circumstances allow for a Just or Heroic death.

For our part, on the other hand, we have no idea what Just means. We can make guesses based on the word, like any death for Vriska would be Just because she was kind of a terrible person. Or we can make guesses based on the way it was presented to us in the first place as God Tiers needing to die dramatically either Justly or Heroically (which has also been painted as the idea in other cases where characters suggested that John's eventual death would be a 'more fitting end for a god tier character', and John's death being 'heroic' in that it happened standing up to a great villain in retribution for the death of his parents and in defense of his friend, but simply not dramatic enough in that he got ganked in half a second). In which case we might judge that as that Vriska was not being a villain right at that moment and died rather anticlimactically that it wasn't a fitting death for a God Tier character. One may even argue that it wasn't a just death ethically because of this or that blah blah balh.

Either way the entire thing is pretty ambiguous to us, but really shouldn't be to someone like Scratch. He KNOWS the rules. Whether Just is decided by a character's past actions, their current actions, the motivations of who killed them, and whether a dramatic component is required, and whether Vriska's past actions/current actions/Terezi's motivations were enough to contribute to a Just death. Scratch understanding these mechanics well enough to tell us about them, and to make judgements as to whether John would survive, but to not know whether Vriska would have survived had the clock been left alone is a pretty spurious claim.

Jack's action having anything to do with Vriska's death was, as Viridis pointed out, left ambiguous even from word of god. Which means that for the moment it's up in the air and both of our theories are basically valid.

But discussion has never been particularly EVIL has it?

And I still find the timing of the clock being smashed and Vriska's 'DEAD' to be pretty spurious, ambiguous word of god or not. Ambiguity does not mean he was denying that Jack breaking the clock ended Vriska, it means he was refusing to comment for the time being because he thinks it would be a spoiler and/or make the story less interesting if he just told us.

I remain unonvinced that it had any bearing, much like breaking a real clock doesn't stop time.But this is a pretty silly argument considering who owned the clock, the build of the clock, and that clocks that CAN stop/reverse time are pretty heavily prevalent in fiction.
Having that sort of power laying around in the same universe as a crowbar that could completely destroy it for everyone involved seems unlikely.I don't see why. All it does is mean there's more than one way to kill a god tier. You can murder them in a dramatically appropriate fashion, or you can find the clock that controls their reincarnation and break it and then murder them/murder them and then break the clock before they respawn.

There's more than one way to become god tier, and Word of God says we haven't even seen them all (though we've seen two). Heck, there's multiple ways to do MOST things in Sburb. Why wouldn't there be more than one way to kill a god tier character?

Also, you're making another assumption as to the number of god tier clocks again. For all we know there may be a near identical resurrection clock for every possible god tier character, and the breaking of that clock may have had an effect on Vriska without having effects on any other god tier characters.

Or it may be the only one! And maybe Aradia is much less immortal now. Or maybe you're right and there's no real affect either way. Or maybe there are multiple, but they're all simply watching their specific god tiered characters and don't actually affect the resurrection. Who knows!

Having read Hussie's FS response, I am now convinced he just wants people to argue over it. The Jerk.I think he just wants people to think about it and talk about it because that seems more fun/interesting than proving any side wrong right off the bat.

I kind of agree.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

It's either the same clock or a very similar clock that's in the same place.
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005751
http://mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005760

Between strokes of the pendulum, the clock is Green. Like everything else in Scratch's home and the Felt Mansion.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Lurking on the MSPA forums, and there is a bit of Terezi hate getting thrown around.

[IHateMakingNames]

She just killed Vriska and started making out with Karkat. How can people be hating on her?

[Fifthfiend]

She just killed Vriska and started making out with Karkat. How can people be hating on her?

So many ships sunk

[Dracorion]

yeah i mean that jerk terezi totally wrecked my solluxxkarkatxkanaya and killed like the best character what a bitch amirite

[Art of Hilt]

She just killed Vriska and started making out with Karkat. How can people be hating on her?

They think that Terezi killing Vriska means that Terezi's character hasn't developed at all, and she's just a perfect person who always accomplishes her goals for the greater good without question; she always wanted to kill Vriska and she got what she want.
Which isn't an opinion I agree with especially since I think it's clear she didn't want to kill Vriska because of friendship/hateship/kismesitude but whatever.

[rpgdemon]

They think that Terezi killing Vriska means that Terezi's character hasn't developed at all, and she's just a perfect person who always accomplishes her goals for the greater good without question; she always wanted to kill Vriska and she got what she want.
Which isn't an opinion I agree with especially since I think it's clear she didn't want to kill Vriska because of friendship/hateship/kismesitude but whatever.

Well, it's the same as how people think of Vriska. I don't agree either, but I can see how it's a valid view.

[Bard The 5th LW]

there are certainly mixed reactions (http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmut2b62lR1qiusb3o1_400.png)

[Solid Snake]

there are certainly mixed reactions (http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmut2b62lR1qiusb3o1_400.png)

Psssh
Because everyone who disliked Vriska is automatically misogynistic

Hey ladies, guess what, you can now cripple and murder anyone you'd like, and if I dare dislike you for it it's just because I hate women

[Loyal]

there are certainly mixed reactions (http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmut2b62lR1qiusb3o1_400.png)

Hahaha oh my god I think that guy might actually be serious.

Bard where did you get that?

[Dracorion]

Bard,

I love you.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I got it from a different guy on a different site. Not totally sure where he got it. They call them 'fandom secrets' though, and there are a lot more like that from what i've seen.

[Loyal]

Well, I didn't find these 'fandom secrets', but I did find http://i.imgur.com/scc2v.jpg, this, (http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?39886-Jade-And-Dave-Fight-Bec-Noir-in-the-Banner-(Also-Vriska-stayed-dead)&p=5217243#post5217243) and http://i.imgur.com/tLvgk.gif, which is apparently part of a new meme as of this page. (http://mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005748)

[Krylo]

It's either the same clock or a very similar clock
Each session contains many things that are exactly the same.

[...]

In every session things play out very similarly and the exact same things are around as created by SBurb. Every session has Prospit and Derse. Every session has a battlefield that looks like a giant chess board + geomap. Every session has a black king, black queen, white king, and white queen. Every session has a Jack Noir. Every session has a forge. Every...

that's in the same place.
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005751
http://mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005760

Between strokes of the pendulum, the clock is Green. Like everything else in Scratch's home and the Felt Mansion.

Doesn't follow at all that just because the clock is green that it has to be in the same place.

[Arcanum]

It's the same clock. Hero of Breath symbol on the clock, with Scratch right there (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005750) and Hero of Light symbol on the clock with SS right there (http://mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005761). Same clock. I mean, how is this even an argument that is happening?

Also Karkat Pantas aka Karpants is oddly hilarious. Although to be fair Dave did it first (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004681)Although he is wearing a suit, so it's easier to understand why he's all black, compared to Karpants all gray

[Krylo]

It's the same clock. Hero of Breath symbol on the clock, with Scratch right there (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005750) and Hero of Light symbol on the clock with SS right there (http://mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005761). Same clock. I mean, how is this even an argument that is happening?

Alright, well, I missed that in the background by scratch the first time. So.

[Solid Snake]

Alright, well, I missed that in the background by scratch the first time. So.

There goes all the Homestuck cred that Krylo had earned. =/

[Locke cole]

So guys, update.

I sure do love me John + Karkat conversations. For all his screaming, Karkat keeps coming off as the most relate-able troll, to me.

So, wow, it looks like Gamzee actually is dead, or at least severely wounded.

[Solid Snake]

We know that Gamzee can't be dead, though; he survives until the critical moment Karkat is referring to (or so I thought.)

[Krylo]

John. John.

Stop breaking my heart by asking Karkat all those questions I know the answers to and being so lovably ignorant of it all, John. You're hurting me, John.

[Locke cole]

Some have noted that all we really know is that his head is in front of his computer screen at the moment.

He's probably alive at that moment, but all the blood he apparently lost can't be a good thing for him.

[Krylo]

Calling it now: Karkat lobotomized him.