Homesuck: Vriska Rising

[Locke cole]

Well, it was recaps for a while, but after the Jack <3- Snowman thing, he left us to sort things out, which apparently results in us going about it in a manner similar to how we usually see the story.

And oh yeah. I forgot that Sollux's eyes aren't permanently red or blue.

My final position on the eye thing is that a 3D glasses joke is likely, but I find it equally likely, perhaps even more likely, that he was implying something to do with his now single working eye.

[POS Industries]

In other news I was really hoping this storytelling device with the photos would not have lasted so long. It was very clever the first couple times around but now it's just sort of grating.
Well, it was a totally great idea when all the scenes from the photos were delivered at once.

When they're slowly trotted out one at a time over several days like normal, it's just a pain in the ass.

[Aldurin]

I kinda like how the slow ones at least indicated imminent updates on a certain character(s). But now it'd be nice if we just get stuff in linear order without teasers (i.e. Doc needs to kill whatever is behind that door using that broom so he can get back to the scrapbook.)

[Art of Hilt]

Looks like Sollux is half-dead in the most literal way possible.
I guess the ghost white eye is the one that's working and that's why he can see the sun?
Also people who dream in the dreambubbles without being dead can have their dreambubble dreamself leave the bubble while dead people can't?
Either way, daaaamn.

[Arcanum]

So the folks behind the Homestuck Christmas (http://homestuckgaiden.bandcamp.com/album/homestuck-for-the-holidays) album have released another fan album; The Land of Fans and Music (http://homestuckgaiden.bandcamp.com/album/land-of-fans-and-music)

edit-- Oh my god and it has the best song ever (http://homestuckgaiden.bandcamp.com/track/sadomasopedorobonecrobestiality)

Also it's free to download.

[Locke cole]

darn, I can't use that site with the wii's internet browser.

[Loyal]

I'm very fond of Starkind. (http://homestuckgaiden.bandcamp.com/track/starkind)

[Viridis]

Haven't listened to much so far but I'm liking A War of One Bullet (http://homestuckgaiden.bandcamp.com/track/a-war-of-one-bullet). Mostly because I'm such a Doc Scratch fan, though.

[POS Industries]

Oh hey, it's a bunch of songs that never made it onto any of the albums and most of which I'd heard already and could have gotten from numerous other places, but conveniently aggregated for my listening pleasure.

I can dig it.

[Nikose Tyris]

Actually you still have depth perception even if you only have one eye.

No, not really. Personal circumstance tells me that one eye = incredibly lack of depth perception.

edit: Or rather, I should say that having used both eyes, and then only using one eye, does not allow for transition to Motion Parallax; If your eyes don't align correctly, the parallax view leaves you essentially without any form of depth perception. Closing one eye kills my double vision, but not my lack of depth perception.

[POS Industries]

Okay, wait a minute, could someone explain to me why there's a a remix of the Hydrocity Zone theme on this fan album?

[Locke cole]

Which song is it?

Also: hah, I have heard the Land of Wrath And Angels theme before.

The guy who made it has a song for each of the trolls' lands (two versions of the Land of Tents and Mirth, for obvious reasons), so it was interesting that the Thought and Flow theme on this album is not one by him. It's cool, though. His Wrath and Angels theme was absolutely amazing, so if it's the only work of his on this album, then I'm cool with that.

[POS Industries]

Which song is it?
so it was interesting that the Thought and Flow theme on this album is not one by him.
Looks like you just answered your own question.

After looking into it, it's apparently part of something that only happened on the forums and has no actual connection to the comic itself outside of "Hey, I did some Sonic remixes and then named them after troll planets!"

[Locke cole]

Whoa. Land of Quartz and Melody is cool.

Nakkadile was stupid but fun. Like those crocodiles, actually.

[IHateMakingNames]

Was trying something out as a new avatar, but the Terezi/Toph is still better.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3276/pinkiegamzee1.png

[Bard The 5th LW]

Ira Quod Angelus and Jack and the Queen were pretty cool.

[Revising Ocelot]

Update.

carcinoGeneticist, huh?

[Solid Snake]

What the hell does it mean to give an entire universe cancer

[Flarecobra]

It was ment to be a perfect universe, and it wasn't?

[POS Industries]

What the hell does it mean to give an entire universe cancer
It means exactly what it says. He fucked up its genetics, causing it to eventually develop a systemic malignancy that is going to kill it, because in this story a universe is a whole living organism that they created through fantastical genetic engineering.

[Solid Snake]

It means exactly what it says. He fucked up its genetics, causing it to eventually develop a systemic malignancy that is going to kill it, because in this story a universe is a whole living organism that they created through fantastical genetic engineering.

But I thought every universe eventually went through the Homestuck-style destruction with Sburb or Sgrub or something, so creating a new universe at the end of a playthrough in one universe merely perpetuated the cycle

[Flarecobra]

No, only thing that really gets destroyed is the home planet. (Alternia in the Troll's case, Earth in the Kid's case.)

[Solid Snake]

No, only thing that really gets destroyed is the home planet. (Alternia in the Troll's case, Earth in the Kid's case.)

If that was true, wouldn't troll civilization in their home universe still be doing relatively well? They expanded well beyond Alternia.

[Revising Ocelot]

If that was true, wouldn't troll civilization in their home universe still be doing relatively well? They expanded well beyond Alternia.

Remember Feferi's lusus? The Vast Glub killed off all trollkind except, possibly, the Empress.

[BitVyper]

Every planet destined for sentient life eventually has a reckoning and is reseeded (presumably so that it gives rise to sentient life again. I think the Exiles' role has to do with this). The games don't affect the universe on the macroscopic level. Well, this one does, but shut up. The point is, aside from whatever offing at least one entire species might entail, the game doesn't seem to NECESSARILY affect anything beyond the seed planet.

Universes without cancer probably still die eventually, but there's dying peacefully in your old age after a long, full life, and then there's dying of cancer caused by a congenital birth defect due to your having been born in an area contaminated by Agent Orange.

[Flarecobra]

Remember Feferi's lusus? The Vast Glub killed off all trollkind except, possibly, the Empress.

I think even the Empress would fall, given the discription of the Vast Glub.

And Earth doesn't have such a thing so... Then again, there arn't any space colonies for Earth. (That we know of)

Found the page. It'd be ALL THE TROLLS. ALL of them. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004364)

[POS Industries]

But I thought every universe eventually went through the Homestuck-style destruction with Sburb or Sgrub or something, so creating a new universe at the end of a playthrough in one universe merely perpetuated the cycle
No, only a single planet in that universe gets destroyed, and even then it continues on existing as home to the exiles. There was never anything stating that the universe being destroyed is a part of that cycle. There is all the talk of Lord English being brought into existence by the end of the trolls' universe, and that this is inevitable, but a lot of people have misconstrued this to mean that the eventual end of all universes is inevitable as a result of playing the game.

What it actually means is that it is unavoidable due to the consequences of everything that happened during the trolls' session: the manipulation by Doc Scratch, his tying their Black Queen's life force into that of their universe (meaning her death will kill it, as well), and their fucking up the primary goal of their session to the point that a completely unstoppable Jack Noir from the kids' session just tore out of a hole into their universe and is killing everything he can find.

There is nothing to suggest that a universe is supposed to die, only that, by things going horribly wrong, the ones this story takes place in are going to.

[Solid Snake]

Remember Feferi's lusus? The Vast Glub killed off all trollkind except, possibly, the Empress.

Ah, I forgot about that.

[POS Industries]

There is nothing to suggest that a universe is supposed to die, only that, by things going horribly wrong, the ones this story takes place in are going to.
Actually, I take this part back to a degree. The kids' universe has cancer, but John removed the tumor and Rose has carried it outside the universe. Its cancer has been treated, though with the scratch and all its kind of hard to say for sure what constitutes that universe's continued life.

The trolls' universe is invariably going to die, though.

[BitVyper]

No, only a single planet in that universe gets destroyed, and even then it continues on existing as home to the exiles.

I don't think the Exiles are meant to be the new dominant form of life on the planet. I think they function more as stewards (whether they realise it or not) while the reseeded (I forget where this term was used, but I know it's in the comic in relation to the reckoning somewhere) planet gives rise to new life so that the whole process can repeat ad infinitum. I don't think the Exiles can perform that role - they're a clone species that doesn't seem to change much even over the course of a hundred or more years.

Maaaaybe something in their genetic code makes descendants they have (if they even CAN breed) very different from themselves. That could be part of their "quest." I'm not sure why the command stations need to be destroyed in this version, but aside from interacting with the players, we haven't seen a lot of purpose to them yet. I think they possibly would have a bigger role under normal circumstances.

[POS Industries]

What?

No, dude, all I said was that they live there, and therefore the universe still exists long after the game session ends.

[BitVyper]

Oh, okay.

[Locke cole]

Oh.

That's why it's called The Tumor.

[Revising Ocelot]

I think even the Empress would fall, given the discription of the Vast Glub.

And Earth doesn't have such a thing so... Then again, there arn't any space colonies for Earth. (That we know of)

Found the page. It'd be ALL THE TROLLS. ALL of them. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004364)

I'm pretty sure it was said somewhere that Feferi and those of her blood colour were immune to the Glub, but there's no way I'd be able to find it.

Speaking of all this Vast Glubness, what is the Vast Croak?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Actually, I take this part back to a degree. The kids' universe has cancer, but John removed the tumor and Rose has carried it outside the universe. Its cancer has been treated, though with the scratch and all its kind of hard to say for sure what constitutes that universe's continued life.

The trolls' universe is invariably going to die, though.

That was just in the session though. We don't have much word on what this means for their universe before Sburb.

[Locke cole]

The Vast Croak might be Billious Slick's birth and first "words". But being that he's a universe, it would of course be a bit more dramatic than most births.

Also: why would the trolls' universe die? They grew a Billious Slick; there was never a Tumor in their universe.

[POS Industries]

Also: why would the trolls' universe die? They grew a Billious Slick; there was never a Tumor in their universe.
Because Lord English comes into existence when the universe dies, Lord English is already confirmed to exist, and Doc Scratch tied Snowman's life to that of the universe and has made it clear that it is the job of Jack Noir to kill her, thereby ending that universe.

[BitVyper]

I'm pretty sure it was said somewhere that Feferi and those of her blood colour were immune to the Glub, but there's no way I'd be able to find it.

Speaking of all this Vast Glubness, what is the Vast Croak?

If I recall correctly, the Vast Glub was the one thing that WOULD kill off the tippy top of the hemospectrum.

If she were to raise it above a whisper, trolls would begin dying. First, the lesser bloods, those more psychically susceptible.

If she raised it to a shout, all on the planet would die. Land and sea dwellers alike.

And if she were ever to get really upset, she might release THE VAST GLUB, a psychic shockwave that would exterminate every troll in the galaxy.

So even a shout would have killed Feferi, just not the current empress, due to her being off-world.

[Locke cole]

Oh right. Duh.

Forgot about that and assumed that you meant it was another universe-cancer situation. Oops.

[Locke cole]

Mmm.

So I wonder what the empress will do with the rest of her life. Kinda hard to maintain a galactic empire when all her subjects are suddenly dead.

[BitVyper]

Hussie alludes to possibilities all the time. What actually happens in the comic does not always follow from that. Unless he directly states "this IS what happened," or actually shows something in the comic, it doesn't really mean a lot except that he's thinking out loud. Or in text, as the case is.

Well, I guess it means that it's possible the empress survived, at any rate. But it's definitely not indicating that with any sort of certainty.

Hell, for all we know, she could be the one Doc Scratch has locked up.

[Arcanum]

Mmm.

So I wonder what the empress will do with the rest of her life. Kinda hard to maintain a galactic empire when all her subjects are suddenly dead.

Enter a different universe and start a new malicious empire (http://www.bettycrocker.com/)

Edit-- Doc Scratch sent the Troll Empress to Earth in the kid's universe to create the Betty Crocker baking empire, but more importantly to stop Nanna and Grandpa Harley from getting married and having the son and daughter that would save the world. This was to guarantee that the kids' session would take place, including all of their interactions with the Trolls, which is all a necessary part to bring Lord English into the Troll's universe. Since the Empress's only job on Earth was to keep Nanna and Grandpa Harley separated, once her task was complete Doc Scratch brought her back to the Troll universe for safe keeping where she is locked away behind the door.

[rpgdemon]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Aldurin]

Man, fuck cancer.

[Loyal]

Enter a different universe and start a new malicious empire (http://www.bettycrocker.com/)

Mother of god.

[POS Industries]

Enter a different universe and start a new malicious empire (http://www.bettycrocker.com/)
There is nothing I can come up with, no matter how hard I try, to dispute this hypothesis.

Well done, sir.

[BitVyper]

Wow, damn.

[Locke cole]

So, uh, is that the only panel that's going to be clickable on that page?

[Loyal]

Looks like it, yes. Probably for consistency's sake.

[BitVyper]

Eh, I've always thought that theory was too farfetched for my liking. It's been floating around the MSPA forums for some time.

Well, we're pretty sure Betty Crocker is an alien at this point, and there's not exactly a whole lot of options. None that are really any less far fetched than her being the troll empress.

I mean, it could totally be something else, but I don't really see the answer being any less far fetched than this.

[Loyal]

I do wonder if we'll be seeing the Empress fleshed out at all. Would be a shame to have her relegated to the depths of headcanon (http://notzilon.tumblr.com/page/5) forever.

[POS Industries]

I mean, it could totally be something else, but I don't really see the answer being any less far fetched than this.
It would, in all likelihood, have to be something yet to have been introduced, as all other non-human characters are either accounted for or are unlikely to have filled the role (any hypothetical Prospit exile wouldn't have had the described personality and a Derse exile would have been too obviously inhuman in appearance for the plan to have worked).

From everything we know now, the Troll Empress is the most likely candidate, despite the unlikelihood of this entire scenario.

Considering that you were all poopooing the idea of the Empress being alive earlier...
Well, either she's dead or she's Betty Crocker.

[Locke cole]

Or she's floating around in a spaceship full of dead trolls, wondering what the hell to do next.

[POS Industries]

Or she's floating around in a spaceship full of dead trolls, wondering what the hell to do next.
Naw, in this story, you are either relevant to the plot, dead, or both.

Also, the whole point of the stories about the trolls' ancestors was to explain why the Empress decreed that all trolls except her would be sent into space upon reaching adulthood, so that she wouldn't have to worry about mind-controlling pirates and subjuggulators and red-blooded mutant rebellions all the time.

[Bard The 5th LW]

When Nanna said that Betty Crocker wasn't human, "Troll Empress" immediately came to my mind.

And Betty Crocker might be the Troll Empress or something silly like that.

[BitVyper]

Considering that you were all poopooing the idea of the Empress being alive earlier...

First: No I wasn't. I quoted some in-story evidence saying the glub would have killed her when someone (I can't even remember who now) was asking about it. You quoted Hussie saying it's possible, even likely that she survived. My response wasn't exactly what I'd call poopooing that. I just said possible doesn't mean certainly. Hell, I even threw in an edit suggesting that she might be the one behind the door.

Second: So what? Even if I came in here and said The Empress is definitely dead forever and anyone who says otherwise is stupid, why would that even matter. Hussie doesn't take his cues from me. Well, except with the Kid Chameleon thing. The update where Terezi used the Kid Chameleon boxart totally came one day after I posted the same boxart in here, and I choose to believe that he was stalking my posts and got the idea from that. Actually no, I'm changing the story. I choose to believe TEREZI was stalking my posts, and got the idea from them.

I mean, if I'm gonna be egotistical and unrealistic, I might as well cross the line to completely delusional.

Edit: Wait, ALL of us were poopooing the idea of her being alive? I thought I was the only one posting anything close to that. Did I miss another discussion?

[Flarecobra]

Well, either she's dead or she's Betty Crocker.

Who would most likely be dead from Meteor impacts on Earth.

[Arcanum]

Who would most likely be dead from Meteor impacts on Earth.

Unless...

Doc Scratch sent the Troll Empress to Earth in the kid's universe to create the Betty Crocker baking empire, but more importantly to stop Nanna and Grandpa Harley from getting married and having the son and daughter that would save the world. This was to guarantee that the kids' session would take place, including all of their interactions with the Trolls, which is all a necessary part to bring Lord English into the Troll's universe. Since the Empress's only job on Earth was to keep Nanna and Grandpa Harley separated, once her task was complete Doc Scratch brought her back to the Troll universe for safe keeping where she is locked away behind the door.

[POS Industries]

Who would most likely be dead from Meteor impacts on Earth.
Actually, Nanna stated that, one day, the Batterwitch simply vanished mysteriously, leaving her entire baking empire to Grandpa Harley.

[Aldurin]

So I find a homestuck update, see the discussion is going well, then I turn my back for it to derail into Betty Crocker conspiracy theories.

Though admittedly it's not 100% crazy.

[Flarecobra]

Ah. Must have missed that then... Yay for ambiguity then?

[POS Industries]

So I find a homestuck update, see the discussion is going well, then I turn my back for it to derail into Betty Crocker conspiracy theories.

Though admittedly it's not 100% crazy.
Well, it's either this or discuss the fact that Jack is about to attack the exiles on Earth.

Obviously, this Betty Crocker stuff is the more pressing concern.

[Art of Hilt]

http://i52.tinypic.com/rabuwz.gif

[Loyal]

Update again.

I for one am looking forward to The Greatest Rap-Off in the History of Paradox Space.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Please please please let Dave and Gamzee be next

[Token]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpdy4iGIBY1qejuee.png
Andrew Hussie, you are my favorite.

Note the brown blood on Gamzee's lips, and the arm on the bottom if you haven't already. There's no way his head was attached pre-smooching

[Loyal]

Tavros: Gettin' more action in death than he ever did in life.

[Flarecobra]

Someone needs to make an avatar out of Gamzee shaking his head.

[Aldurin]

I get it now, every Prospit agent is like an immune cell, and each Derse agent is a disease. The genetic defect itself changed the situation by rendering a disease unstoppable and hellbent on destroying everything. It may be that all non-cancer carapaces held a somewhat symbiotic relationship with the opposite faction in their own way, generating a healthy balance.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Someone needs to make an avatar out of Gamzee shaking his head.

I totally would but I can find the image alone anywhere.

[IHateMakingNames]

Someone needs to make an avatar out of Gamzee shaking his head.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/03448-1.gif

[Revising Ocelot]

THED DATE (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/sweetbroandhellajeff/?cid=035.jpg)

[Locke cole]

So, here's a thought.

IF SBAHJ ends up foreshadowing events in the actual comic, does that mean that Dave is prophetic to some degree?

[Art of Hilt]

It means SBaHJ is how the Horrorterrors communicate to Dave.
Their messages have invaded his subconscious, and the face of the horrorterrible invasion is " :y "

That said I seriously love these frog updates. The Genesis Frog is one of the few things in Homestuck that would actually make a good tattoo.

[Marc v4.0]

I...am not really sure what this could possibly be foreshadowing.

I don't want to know, either

[Fifthfiend]

For the Universalist Amphibianic Ministry of 2549, Vriska will be their Aslan.

[Art of Hilt]

oh shit this update is so fucking biznasty i got to abort
*ollies outy*

[Revising Ocelot]

Vriska, Karkat and now Gamzee are all 'responsible' for Jack? And now by extension Betty Crocker.

Harlequin doll in dream!John bedroom > real!John starts scrawling clowns over wall > Dad starts buying clown stuff > Clown gets prototyped > Jack gets Clown suit > Jack gets mad and kills Black Queen.

[Dracorion]

Why is Dave talking to Betty Crocker?!

[Revising Ocelot]

Also, that awful face (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005931) is the same as his Critical Moment face (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005119).

[Loyal]

You motherfucker, Hussie. Why would you deny that to us.

[Locke cole]

Why is Dave talking to Betty Crocker?!

He's not. She sent a tweet to him, containing a leaked "Miracles" video. It's the equivalent of someone totally random sending you an email; you don't have to be in correspondence with them.

But this is interesting. It almost certainly means that she meant for Dave to one day show Gamzee the video, and trigger his insanity.

And so, it looks like Gamzee's just as responsible as Vriska and Karkat are. He caused John to subconsciously maim the harlequin doll, and then prototype it (or, if you want to be a bit more plausible, he caused Dad to become concerned enough to buy said doll in the first place). He caused Dave to fear Cal, which I think led to Scratch's creation? Oh, and he caused Rose to write out the MEOW code, which led to Becquerels creation.

So... that's 3 trolls now who have each caused a number of intermediate steps towards Bec Noir's creation.

[Kim]

I like that after she's dead we're finding out how everything actually *isn't* all Vriska's fault and hers alone.

[Marc v4.0]

I like that after she's dead we're finding out how everything actually *isn't* all Vriska's fault and hers alone.

I think, rather, that it wasn't anyones 'fault', unless we are giving Inescapable Inevitability an anthropomorphic personification and then pointing the finger.

[Locke cole]

I think, rather, that it wasn't anyones 'fault', unless we are giving Inescapable Inevitability an anthropomorphic personification and then pointing the finger.

Well, in the story, we already had a scene of Aradia basically cursing out Paradox Space itself. So I'm gonna point my finger squarely in that direction.

[Flarecobra]

Nice way to end that update there.

[Art of Hilt]

So basically, Gamzee's Rage power is to give other people nightmares?

So he's a Boogie (Woogie) Man?

[Revising Ocelot]

I think that's just the Bard part. The Rage part is synonymous for being totally overpowered.

[Bard The 5th LW]

He doesn't just give Nightmares. He makes nightmares.

[Locke cole]

I think that's just the Bard part. The Rage part is synonymous for being totally overpowered.

He said he focused this stuff through his rage, though.

So, is this how Doc Scratch's code came to be? Via the rage-power of a prematurely-insane Gamzee from another timeline?

[Aldurin]

Does the link Betty Crocker left go to anything? I'm afraid to look.

[Bard The 5th LW]

It leads here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs), no joke.

[Locke cole]

Ahaha holy crap. It does go somewhere.

Specifically to a Youtube video of the ICP song "Miracles". Same as Dave linked to "before".

So, Betty Crocker gave Dave a link to that song. Something is up.

[Loyal]

Betty Crocker is the Fefcestor. There can be no other explanation.

Unrelated, but food-for-thought: Betty Crocker is the Batterwitch, Feferi is the Witch of Life. Hussie doesn't do a lot of coincidences, but when he does they tend to be made meaningful after the fact.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Mindfang also used the term 'Witch' a lot when describing Fef's ancestor.

[POS Industries]

So do we have a timeframe regarding troll longevity versus how far into the past the ancestors were sent? Because I'm beginning to suspect that Feferi's ancestor and the last Troll Empress are one and the same.

That said, the "Betty Crocker" that sent that link to Dave read much more like Doc Scratch than anyone. Especially with the white text on a green background.

[Loyal]

We don't know how far back the ancestors were sent, but I'm guessing that, premature death aside, they're decently long-lived from this page. (http://mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005658) Mindfang treats the future hatching of The Summoner, and his subsequent growth, maturity, and rebellion, as though the many sweeps involved weren't that big a deal to her livelihood.

If nothing else I wouldn't be surprised if higher blood also came with increased longevity.

[Arcanum]

I believe from that same page/sequence of pages that we're given the impression that High Bloods live for much longer than Low Bloods. I'm too lazy to re-read through them to be sure though, but I swear I got that impression from something Mindfang wrote. Anyway if that's the case then it wouldn't surprise me if Fefcestor was/is the past/present Troll Empress.

[POS Industries]

We don't know how far back the ancestors were sent, but I'm guessing that, premature death aside, they're decently long-lived from this page. (http://mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005658)
This is still an incredi8le notion for me to consider, and I cannot imagine how she would come to enforce such an upheaval in our civiliz8tion. Though I suppose she will have on her side the advantage of an unparalleled lifespan, and the leverage extended 8y the hideous psychic prongs of her deep undul8ing monstrosity. That is, until it chooses another little witch to serve.
Welp.

[Loyal]

I claim victory in spite of my obvious blindness.

[POS Industries]

I think we've both done some fine work here today making up for the fact that Mindfang's journal was the most boring part of the whole comic and we only kinda skimmed over it because good god FUCK reading all that, amirite?

[POS Industries]

And, with this update, I suddenly understand nothing.

[Arcanum]

And, with this update, I suddenly understand nothing.

This.

[Dracorion]

What is this I don't even

[Bard The 5th LW]

zuh?

[Loyal]

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p458/TrooperJoeRamirez/cvqefyi4iasepr780top1.gif

[POS Industries]

For what it's worth, if there's one thing we can take away from this update, it's that there is now a possibility of either Jade or Kanaya SOMEHOW going god tier.

[Bard The 5th LW]

So is Aradia Lord English?Did she give the felt time travel powers? Bluh whats happening
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/mind%20blown/grand/mind_blown_gif.gif

[BitVyper]

At this moment I'll guess that it's Aradiancestor.... somehow.

[Locke cole]

Why is Aradia in Scratch's base?

Why is she in the fu-wait, stupid question.

What is the Huss of Space trying to do, there?

And that ain't a yellow yard. Just a yellow foot.

edit:

BitByper, but wouldn't the Aradiancestor have the shortest lifespan of all the ancestors? And didn't she die during the Equiancestor's backstory?

[BitVyper]

And didn't she die during the Equiancestor's backstory?

Aradiancestor is only one candidate for the girl referred to in that story. Which, if this is her, may not have even happened yet from her perspective.

BitVyper, but wouldn't the Aradiancestor have the shortest lifespan of all the ancestors?

Time travel.

I should clarify though that my guess is a totally unsubstantiated wild guess.

So is Aradia Lord English?

Doc Scratch called his boss a man, if I recall correctly.

[Locke cole]

True, but given Mindfang's backstory, it's either the Aradiancestor or the Nepetancestor. For it to be a tidy parallel, I'm assuming that it was the Aradiancestor.

[IHateMakingNames]

I took it as the Trolls will somehow get back into their universe, or at the very least Aradia. And she can time travel so being in the future wouldn't be hard.

Also Doc Scratch hates Hussie's self-inserts.

[POS Industries]

BitByper, but wouldn't the Aradiancestor have the shortest lifespan of all the ancestors?
Well, look at it this way: the ancestors' and the trolls' stories mirrored one another, except with some difference in a major decision made by each of them that ultimately changed their destinies entirely. But how do you mirror the girl who died as a child?

Perhaps Aradiancestor was simply removed from her time entirely somehow. It's all speculation, of course, but something about the "Aradia" we just saw doesn't strike me as being the one we know, which leaves a very narrow number of possibilities regarding this girl's true identity.

On the other hand, it could be something else that's equally nonsensical.

And didn't she die during the Equiancestor's backstory?
I was always under the impression that it was Nepeta's ancestor, what with Darkleer's path being different from Equius' in the fact that he stood up to the highbloods in defense of a lower-blooded friend, whereas Equius couldn't and allowed both of them to die.

[Bard The 5th LW]

THere's really no proof that either of them died either. Just the line 'Was she worth it?' Also the fact that we are seeing her as a child and time travel is not an unknown concept means it could very wel be aradiancestor.

Also, we really don't have a proper scaling method for a proper troll's lifespan. If lowbloods do have the shortest life, it could still be longer than a human's.

[Locke cole]

Well, look at it this way: the ancestors' and the trolls' stories mirrored one another, except with some difference in a major decision made by each of them that ultimately changed their destinies entirely. But how do you mirror the girl who died as a child?


I meant, in general. Lower-bloods have shorter lifespans. Compare the Summoner and Mindfang (Mindfang spoke of the not yet born Summoner as her destined partner), and the fact that the Fefcestor was still alive and well after Fef's birth.

[IHateMakingNames]

It's all speculation, of course, but something about the "Aradia" we just saw doesn't strike me as being the one we know, which leaves a very narrow number of possibilities regarding this girl's true identity.
She isn't smiling.

[Intern Nin]

Why is Aradia in Scratch's base?
Because Scratch has her locked up in there.

What is the Huss of Space trying to do, there?
From the looks of things, I'd say he's measuring the Fractal Prospectus (http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Fractal_Prospectus). Also, he is not the Huss of Space. He is the Waste of Space.

And that ain't a yellow yard. Just a yellow foot.
Nope, it's too big to be a foot ruler. Definitely the yellow yard.

[BitVyper]

I took it as the Trolls will somehow get back into their universe, or at the very least Aradia. And she can time travel so being in the future wouldn't be hard.

I really don't think this is god tier Aradia. Jack is more powerful than Doc Scratch, and she could freeze and escape him. All the signs here point to her being a captive. If it is Aradia, I'll guess that it's her from prior to any point in her personal timeline at which we've seen her. Doc Scratch did take a semi-parental role in the lives of several trolls, so it would be a recurring theme.

[POS Industries]

She isn't smiling.
That was my first clue, yes.

The other, as Bit mentioned, being that this girl is obviously not a god tier Hero of Time, and the odds of Aradia having been locked in Alternia's first guardian's mansion far into the future, long after the end of all life as she knows it, and then was neatly deposited back into her own time before her death where she apparently thought nothing of it and never mentioned it again are nearly nonexistent.

[Locke cole]

She could just not be wearing the godhood. I mean, Vriska went without it for some time.

[POS Industries]

She could just not be wearing the godhood. I mean, Vriska went without it for some time.
I mean the fact that she's unable to escape being simply locked in a room, not her choice of outfit.

[IHateMakingNames]

I figured God Tiers could change clothes.

I doubt it's the Alpha Aradia, but only because how the story has been handled up to this point.

Doomed/Alternate timeline Aradia seems to be the most likely suspect if anything not present alpha Aradia.


First Guardians out-power God Tiers. God Tiers have escaped, but I'd assume with enough work Green Sun beings can lock up God Tiers.

[POS Industries]

Doomed/Alternate timeline Aradia seems to be the most likely suspect if anything not present alpha Aradia.
Except Alive!Aradia's primary motivation is not dying again, and creating doomed versions of herself is completely antithetical to this mentality.

It could be, yes, but I highly doubt it.

[IHateMakingNames]

Except Alive!Aradia's primary motivation is not dying again, and creating doomed versions of herself is completely antithetical to this mentality.

It could be, yes, but I highly doubt it.
This would be pre-God Tier alternate Aradia. Timeline where Vriska/Sollux didn't kill Aradia, then Scratch snatched her up for whatever reason.

Given, I'm not sure if he can do that. Didn't that whole Terezi killing Vriska thing deal with Scratch not being able to interact with alternate timelines?


Regardless, it's going to be time bullshit.

[POS Industries]

As I recall, yes. He was able to give exposition on them only by virtue of deducing probable outcomes, but the Scratch we see is not one that can just pluck children out of alternate timelines.

First Guardians out-power God Tiers. God Tiers have escaped, but I'd assume with enough work Green Sun beings can lock up God Tiers.
The fact that, in a doomed timeline, Vriska was shown possibly defeating Jack, who had First Guardian powers, suggests otherwise.

That said, yes, a First Guardian probably could capture a God Tier Hero of Time. However, said First Guardian probably wouldn't do so with a locked door.

[Art of Hilt]

aaaa what the fuck is this update

I mean the fact that she's unable to escape being simply locked in a room, not her choice of outfit.

I'd figure that if anyone could trap a god of time, it'd be someone who's in charge of a mob of time travelers.

Maybe Doc Scratch made the closed, locked room billions of years ago, so that no matter how far back in time Aradia went, she'll still be in that room.

[POS Industries]

Maybe Doc Scratch made the closed, locked room billions of years ago, so that no matter how far back in time Aradia went, she'll still be in that room.
Which would work if time travel in this story didn't also allow the traveler to change locations as well.

[BitVyper]

That said, yes, a First Guardian probably could capture a God Tier Hero of Time.

I don't think he could or would. "Capturing" someone isn't in his nature. Conveniently being present to "aid" a young girl that was stranded in the future by events in which he may have had some tangental involvement is. The end result, obviously, is the same.

And I really don't see anything within the realm of powers demonstrated by First Guardians that could keep god-tier Aradia from escaping. Since this doesn't look like some kind of bizarre fractal prison of folding space and time, I can't begin to believe that this is god-tier Aradia.

To be honest, I don't think First Guardians have time travel powers. They haven't demonstrated any and why would they even need such a thing? They exist at all points in time where their existence is necessary, and they know exactly what they need to do all the time. For them, travelling through time would be like using your hands to move your feet to walk. And the Felt sure as hell aren't about to out time-magic a god.

[POS Industries]

And the Felt sure as hell aren't about to out time-magic a god.
Sir, do you mean to suggest that Biscuits could not, in fact, keep Aradia captive within the confines of his time oven?

Ludicrous, sir! Simply ludicrous!

[Arcanum]

Which would work if time travel in this story didn't also allow the traveler to change locations as well.

Since when was this a thing?

[BitVyper]

Gonna be honest: If that turned out to be Biscuits' actual power, I would pretty much be totally okay with it.

Since when was this a thing?

Since Aradiabots started jumping from all points to the Battlefield without actually flying there.

Edit: Actually, since doomed Dave jumped from where he was on LOHAC to Alpha Dave's house. So the very first instance of time travel.

[POS Industries]

Since Aradiabots started jumping from all points to the Battlefield without actually flying there.
I would have said when Doomed Dave traveled all the way from LOHAC to his roof before Alpha Dave entered the Medium in order to save John, myself.

EDIT: Ha! Too slow, Bit!

[Arcanum]

Just because we aren't shown the boring ass walking doesn't mean it doesn't happen. For example (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004924):

TG: so im gonna go some place warm be back in a while later
-- turntechGodhead [TG] ceased pestering gardenGnostic [GG] --
GG: wait!
GG: dave!!
GG: uuugh stupid lousy cool dudes
-- turntechGodhead [TG] began pestering gardenGnostic [GG] --
TG: ok im back
TG: an hour later
GG: an hour?
TG: an hour for me
TG: a second for you
TG: i ran around for an hour got my ass some place warm
TG: went back in time
TG: picked up where we left off

[BitVyper]

Just because we aren't shown the boring ass walking doesn't mean it doesn't happen. For example:

Except that it's always referred to, and we WERE actually shown an Aradiabot jump to the Battlefield. As well as numerous Aradiabots teleporting in.

[BitVyper]

Observe:

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=004489
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=004490

[Arcanum]

Then why would it explicitly state that Dave spent an hour walking around when he could have just teleported somewhere warm in an instant?

Yeah sure we're shown an Aradiabot in a black void on one page, and then on the battlefield the next, but to me that just seems like artistic flair and saving time. What would the reader rather see? Aradiabot going to a "safe" point in time, flying to the battlefield, and then going to the end? Or Aradiabot skipping straight to the end?

On top of all of this teleporting would be more likely attributed to Space powers than Time powers.

Edit- Also there's no proof that those other Aradiabots teleported in from elsewhere, or if they were on the battlefield when the warped to that time, since we can't see what they were doing prior to entering the time of that panel.

[POS Industries]

Then why would it explicitly state that Dave spent an hour walking around when he could have just teleported somewhere warm in an instant?
You may be misinterpreting "ran around for an hour." Especially when you consider that there is no place warm on Jade's planet, and it wouldn't have even taken Dave that long to traverse the gates in order to get to a different one.

Also, the very first major instance of time travel in this comic showed him traveling from his planet inside the Medium to his roof outside the Medium, and, as Bit showed, Aradia has been shown teleporting on multiple occasions as well.

You are disregarding several instances actively shown in the comic in defense of an arguably inaccurate interpretation of one sentence of dialogue.

[Locke cole]

How about Doomed Future Dave warping from LOHAC's surface to Dave's roof when he rewound?

[Intern Nin]

Also, the very first major instance of time travel in this comic showed him traveling from his planet inside the Medium to his roof outside the Medium,
Bzzzt, wrong. That was his roof post-entry, hence the hatched sprite and the fact that none of the minions look like Dave.

[Art of Hilt]

Also, the very first major instance of time travel in this comic showed him traveling from his planet inside the Medium to his roof outside the Medium

They're actually both inside the Medium. Time travel might have spacial movement but I doubt it'd go as far as universe jumping.

Yeah, it makes sense that there'd be physical movement involved, since Rose at one point said that space and time aren't all that different.

[POS Industries]

Bzzzt, wrong. That was his roof post-entry, hence the hatched sprite and the fact that none of the minions look like Dave.
Ah, right, my mistake.

It still showed him traveling from one place to another, though.

[Arcanum]

Whelp I still believe that their time travel devices don't also allow them to teleport. I may be completely wrong but hey, it makes more sense to me that way and it doesn't really affect the story in any way (so far) if they can teleport or if we just aren't shown them walking.

[Marc v4.0]

If, by devices, you mean them. It might have been mentioned or suggested that Dave could do it without the Turntables.

[BitVyper]

There's at least one common view of time travel that necessitates being able to teleport in order to keep up with moving planets and etc. But then, time travel like this being fictional and all, it's just as valid to suggest that without a point of reference, there's no such thing as distance at all, so no you wouldn't have to worry about that. Of course, the comic has already suggested that time and space might not be so different.

Anyway, back to Aradia/Aradiancestor; I thought I'd add that a major difference between the guardians and the kids when we saw them as infants was in their hairstyles, and this girl definitely has a different one from the Aradia we know.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Hussie's formspring did leave it ambiguous as to whether or not it was actually Aradia.

My Headcanon is that the time players can only go back in time to a place they've been, but it really seems they can teleport anywhere in the past.

e: 'nother update for some reason

[Art of Hilt]

No more scrapbook for now!
Also yes Aradia two birds flipped right up

[Bard The 5th LW]

Yeah, but we didn't get to see the final scrapbook panel.

[BitVyper]

Considering the new update: god tier Aradia has fraymotifs and god powers. She has much more... expressive ways of working out her aggression than throwing a chair.

Edit: And telekinesis.

[Art of Hilt]

Yeah, but we didn't get to see the final scrapbook panel.

I guess it was just an easter egg all along.
Like just a Terezi comic thrown in for fun.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Throwing a chair is the MOST expressive form of agression.

[Aldurin]

. . . . . . . . . .
This update man. This update.

[Art of Hilt]

She's also flipping the bird!
Why fight a nearly omnipotent man when you can flip a bird?

[Bard The 5th LW]

. . . . . . . . . .
This update man. This update.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/345/3/c/tay_throwing_sofa_gif_by_fairy_t_ale-d34plsu.gif

[Locke cole]

"True Master"?

...What could that possibly refer to?

Like, if this is a young Aradia, I'm guessing someone versed in Time, which might mean Lord English, but this'd be a weird time to introduce him.

[Bard The 5th LW]

"True Master"?

She is a Maid. And Lord English is a Lord.

[Locke cole]

But seriously, Doc Scratch is like the master of having unexpected houseguests.

[Bard The 5th LW]

maybe there is another group of trolls based off of the chinese zodiac or something?

[Locke cole]

Alternia recognizes 48 zodiac signs.

Probably.

Not like we'll ever see them.

[Loyal]

...really, Bard? Really?

For that matter, really, RO?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Don't get mad at me

[Arcanum]

Alternia recognizes 48 zodiac signs.

Probably.

Since the trolls correspond to the zodiac signs of Earth (i.e. the seed planet in the universe they created) I figured the 48 Alternian zodiac signs was an offhand reference that the session that created Alternia's universe had 48 players.

[rpgdemon]

Why 48? That's never made sense to me.

There are 3x the number of kids as there are trolls. 12 Trolls, four kids.

Wouldn't 36 make more sense?

[Marc v4.0]

Why 48? That's never made sense to me.

There are 3x the number of kids as there are trolls. 12 Trolls, four kids.

Wouldn't 36 make more sense?


Not if there isn't a correlation between the number of astrological signs and the number of players in the next session.

Just saying, it doesn't have to mean anything.

[Art of Hilt]

Why 48? That's never made sense to me.

There are 3x the number of kids as there are trolls. 12 Trolls, four kids.

Wouldn't 36 make more sense?

12*4=48.
Hussie probably didn't care about the number, just that there was a number and that MAYBE but not necessarily it was divisible by four.

[Revising Ocelot]

...really, Bard? Really?

For that matter, really, RO?

What I was implying was Scratched trolls, but don't mind me, I'll go stick my head down a toilet and flush for being a GIGANTIC FUCKING RETARD. AGAIN.

[Locke cole]

I believe that I once saw someone link to a list of real constellations that added up to the right number.

Included stuff like Draco, which made me wonder why Terezi didn't have that sign. (the reason is obvious, but still)

Oh, by the way, big updates on Hussie's Formspring. Including some info about the nature of Gamzee's power.

[Kerensky287]

I sort of wish he'd stop acting like it was so self-evident.

Gamzee made an angry face and then a clown appeared. How the fuck are we supposed to infer:

It's not clear that he is getting in touch with his in-game powers, like John did with the windy thing, or whether withdrawing from his sopor slime haze is bringing out psychic powers he would have had anyway.

The latter would make sense for his bloodline though. If this were a common ability among subjugglators, it would help explain why they're able to hold power over all lower classes.

It's implied that they're very strong and dangerous, in addition to being insane and unpredictable. But this by itself doesn't necessarily explain why they'd be able to keep power over such a huge population of similarly dangerous trolls, which also have many deadly powers. Especially since, also implied, the higher the blood, the longer they live. This means lower classes must be much more copious than higher classes. The lowbloods die off much more quickly, and so must be spawned in greater numbers. Those with high longevity can't afford to be spawned in such numbers, or the population would be out of control. At the top of the hierarchy is the Empress, who lives for thousands of years. There is only one of her class, discounting her successor.

For the subjugglators in their small numbers to keep such a large population under their control, it would be very useful to have the ability to psychically amplify fears through dreams. They may have directed their chucklevoodoos on every susceptible mind in the population. Each lowblood may have a little highblood voodoo doll lurking in their subconscious, making them too terrified to organize any sort of rebellion.

Additional notes:

Now knowing he had this ability, we can wonder whether he used it during his rampage, in addition to using it on John/Dave. Did he use the ability to befuddle Terezi into pinning the crime on Vriska in spite of laughably overwhelming evidence to the contrary? Turning Terezi against Vriska was likely the only way he could kill Vriska, due to her cerebral "luck neutralizing" ability. Did he exaggerate Karkat's fears to destabilize the team? What about Equius? Maybe he exaggerated his fear of failing to show a superior deference, to the point of incapacitation.

He didn't add Jack.

He amplified John's fears in his dream to take the form of a voodoo doll that looked somewhat like Jack and was dressed like a clown.

This made him subconsciously scribble clowns all over his wall, which made his dad think he was into clowns. So his dad began collecting harlequins believing he was sharing in John's interests.

He then got him the big harlequin doll for his birthday. The doll was maimed, lost an arm and an eye, and was prototyped.

The clown prototyping caused Jack to become especially angry at the queen over the new dress code. All of this lead to big problems.

from what we saw?

[POS Industries]

He doesn't seem to be acting like it's particularly self-evident at all there, though. In fact, even his response regarding whether this is a natural psychic ability or part of his in-game power set is a tad vague, though it obviously leans more toward the former. I mean, yeah, he acts like a smug douchebag in most of his formspring posts, but I don't really see him doing so here.

Also, I realized why the "Aradia" we saw in this update wasn't Aradia: Her hair is different, and everyone in this story has the same haircut from the day they're born to the day they die. And after they die. And become a robot. And then are alive again.

[BitVyper]

Edit: Oh you mean the thing about it being his troll powers. Nevermind then.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I actually felt it was an informative enough answer. I sorta suspected the 'chucklevoodoos' were some sorta psychic power unique to himself.

[Loyal]

Also, I realized why the "Aradia" we saw in this update wasn't Aradia: Her hair is different, and everyone in this story has the same haircut from the day they're born to the day they die. And after they die. And become a robot. And then are alive again.
Well, funny you should mention that with this update.

[BitVyper]

Yeah, that is pretty much a cut/paste of this (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=004032).

Hussie knows that's been one of the defining traits, so he's playing with it.

[POS Industries]

Welp, so much for that, then.

Whetever's going on here, it's still no less stupid than Hussie gradually becoming more and more of an active, relevant character within the plot itself.

[Revising Ocelot]

Are those cuesticks?

[Kerensky287]

He doesn't seem to be acting like it's particularly self-evident at all there, though. In fact, even his response regarding whether this is a natural psychic ability or part of his in-game power set is a tad vague, though it obviously leans more toward the former. I mean, yeah, he acts like a smug douchebag in most of his formspring posts, but I don't really see him doing so here.

Well, my issue is less that he's being a smug douchebag (which he is, granted, not guilty of here) and more that there's apparently all this information we were supposed to glean from two sparse panels. Any writer worth their salt knows the rule "show, don't tell," and the fact that it's necessary to pass along this info via Formspring of all things means that he's failed at the showing.

Admittedly it isn't a major detail, but it's a detail nonetheless. It looked to me like he made that dreamclown out of sheer hate or something, which I guess is kind of related to what Hussie was saying, but if we're supposed to follow that along to the whole subjugglator/mind control/Gamzee is the puppet master thing... well, I just feel like more could have been done. If it's worth making an essay-length formspring post on the subject, then I dunno, I feel like maybe throwing in an extra panel of Ancestor!Gamzee doing it to Dualscar or something (just off the top of my head) would have been called for.

Welp, so much for that, then.

Whetever's going on here, it's still no less stupid than Hussie gradually becoming more and more of an active, relevant character within the plot itself.

As long as he keeps playing up how stupid his self-indulgent bullshit is, I'm okay with it.

[BitVyper]

Welp, so much for that, then.

Not really. All this tells us for the moment is that he's messing with expectations.

[Locke cole]

I dunno, Kerensky. The whole "he made a doll, which caused John's subconscious scrawling and led to him having a harlequin doll to prototype with" thing clicked for me pretty easily.

Though, I'll admit to not even thinking of the possibility of him amplifying fears and anxieties without planting dolls into dream-selves' rooms.

[IHateMakingNames]

I dunno, Kerensky. The whole "he made a doll, which caused John's subconscious scrawling and led to him having a harlequin doll to prototype with" thing clicked for me pretty easily.
The question was "how did Gamzee do that?" not what happened. It looks like he does it out of pure hatred/rage, but then Hussie has those bigger explanations that people who don't read formspring wouldn't really think about.

[Loyal]

I kinda figured his Bard of Rage powers were manifesting the current object of his hatred (ICP - Clowns) which he then distributed in a rampage. It never occurred to me that this might be a trait of Subjuggalators in general.

On another note, Hussie throwing out the what-if-maybes in that this power might be what allowed Gamzee to get away with his shenanigans re: Terezi, Equius, Nepeta, hasn't really made me feel much better.

[POS Industries]

Not really. All this tells us for the moment is that he's messing with expectations.
Of course, but the hair is no longer evidence either way.

It was an exceptionally well-timed debunking of it, in fact.

[Locke cole]

The question was "how did Gamzee do that?" not what happened. It looks like he does it out of pure hatred/rage, but then Hussie has those bigger explanations that people who don't read formspring wouldn't really think about.

Well, he focused his Rage, so I figured it was part of his powers as the Bard of Rage.

The Ragey Thing, if you will.

[BitVyper]

Alternatively, I guess this could be Aradia from a timeline where she didn't go after Vriska. Such a timeline must exist, since she made the choice to do it to begin with. Don't see how she'd have gotten here though, unless things progressed far enough for her to get time travel. Also it being an alternate Aradia doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since a servant who is doomed to die in the immediate future is kind of wasted.

[Art of Hilt]

Update.
Holy fucking shit.

GRIEF
AGGRESS
AGGRUB

Translations in that order.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Go Aradia

[Aldurin]

Good going, now she's definitely lost her furniture privileges.

[Locke cole]

OK, so those things are clearly magical. She was wielding them in a manner remarkably like Rose did before she started using her needles like wands.

[Revising Ocelot]

t1ck t0ck 8r8k h34ds


She's the Maid of Time. Hurrrrrrr

[Arcanum]

OK, so those things are clearly magical. She was wielding them in a manner remarkably like Rose did before she started using her needles like wands.

Eh I just figured she was using her psychic powers. I mean it could be magic, or more interesting it could be a blend of the two (magic and psychic powers).

[Locke cole]

Updort.

Now I am even more confuse.

[Loyal]

So, the mansion is another battleship?

wait, no... Jack was ejected from it not long ago.

Also confused.

[Art of Hilt]

Doc Scratch teleported Aradia on the top of a spaceship headed towards her planet, because in outer space, she can not breathe. Hence, his removal of her breathing privileges.

So she can either go back to Doc Scratch's apartment by behaving and letting Doc Scratch teleport them there instantly, or she can just keep gasping for air until the space ship inevitably brings them back there anyway.

He is an excellent disciplinarian.

Also oh shit oh shit oh shit

The spaceship is red it looks red like Betty Crocker's logo I bet that's Betty Crocker's ship I'd bet my life I'd bet my first born's life

[Locke cole]

Wait, so you think maybe Aradia is Betty Crocker?

I was so sure it was Her Royal Condescension.

[Art of Hilt]

I'm pretty sure the spaceship doesn't belong to Aradia, no. She looked just as surprised about it as any of us.

[Loyal]

I'm not sure why The Empress would be returning to Alternia at this point, though.

[Revising Ocelot]

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/04040.gif

is a callback to http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/01585_2.gif

Probably irrelevant though.

[POS Industries]

The spaceship is red it looks red like Betty Crocker's logo I bet that's Betty Crocker's ship I'd bet my life I'd bet my first born's life
No, the spaceship is just red. Nothing yet shown about it looks anything like a spoon.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I'm actually of the opinion that the 'Betty Crocker' who sent Dave 'Miracles' may have been Grandpa Harley through weird time shit. The dude does own the company. Its more likely that it is the legit Crocker though.

[Art of Hilt]

No, the spaceship is just red. Nothing yet shown about it looks anything like a spoon.

It's too late, I've already put my first born on the line.
Also several other people's first borns.
No take backs.

[Arcanum]

But why would the Troll Empress, who is of the most noble blood, fly around in a ship colored mutant candy red.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Trolls like the color red, if Terezi and Vriska are an indicator.

[Arcanum]

Don't ruin this for me Bard.

[Flarecobra]

Red might be the top and bottom of the spectrum or something...

[Fifthfiend]

But why would the Troll Empress, who is of the most noble blood, fly around in a ship colored mutant candy red.

Certainly if any species anywhere in the universe were going to breach the unbroken barrier between hating things and loving them, there is no chance whatsoever of that race being the trolls.

EDIT: let me tell you this square

You see it is divided into four smaller squares

furthermore,

[Loyal]

Also, I doubt the Empress would want to flaunt her blood color as the primary color in her capital ship. Any race in conflict with the trolls and familiar with their hemospectrum would see that vivid magenta as a target.

[Intern Nin]

Update: Oh no, not her electricity privileges too!

[Loyal]

It's probably telling that I found this update more depressing than any update prior.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Damn Scratch you cold

[Locke cole]

Geez. This is going in a nasty direction.

[Solid Snake]

The potential empathy I could be feeling for possiblyAradia is completely and utterly destroyed by my complete inability to comprehend what the hell is going on and why the hell it's going on

[Locke cole]

As far as I can tell, he's grooming her to work for Lord English, or be trained by him. And she doesn't like that.

The rest of the stuff I don't really know, but that's as much as I need to know about the basic situation.

My biggest question is how she got there and then, and why she's never spoken of this, if this indeed Alpharadia.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I'm sure it'll make sense soon enough. Most things do. Give the story some time.

But Scratch is clearly trying to gear her towards some purpose of his, probably related to Lord English. She obviously does not like that.

[Intern Nin]

Scratch is holding a young girl captive against her will, apparently because LE needs her for some undisclosed purpose, still playing the part of a creepyscary gentleman all the while. What more do you need to know?

[Solid Snake]

I'm sure it'll make sense soon enough. Most things do. Give the story some time.

My only problem with that argument is that really I've wanted this story to end or at least get close to ending far sooner than Hussie apparently planned it to
Act Five has dragged on at this rate to encompass all kinds of meandering plot points that I could not have possibly guessed would be necessary

It's like if Homestuck was LOST, this would be what LOST would have looked like if its creators did not deliberately sabotage themselves in Season Three in order to ensure that ABC would agree to an end-date
This is like LOST if it had to come up with new random plot points to justify it going into a tenth season

EDIT: At this point part of my criticism really stems from my personal suspicion that Hussie has elongated Act Five far past what he originally anticipated solely so he could continue to profit from Homestuck because Homestuck is popular and he's afraid of what he's going to do once it ends
I mean think about it before you call me crazy, he originally thought Act Five was just one Act in a seven-act structure
Even if he planned Act Five to be longer than any other Act he surely could not have expected it to be this long, or he would have divided the story into more appropriate Act breaks

[MuMu]

Now, what could be so awful that Aradia(???) would rather commit suicide than watching/doing it...

[Locke cole]

Yeah, Acct Five is pretty damn ridiculous at this point, I will definitely give you that.

I mean, wasn't it about 3 months ago that Scratch said he was going to quickly get us to the end of act?

[Aldurin]

Oh an updaadknofsgpsdgnkfns WHAT IS HAPPENING?

[Bard The 5th LW]

I like to think that Hussie decided 7 acts wouldn't cut it, but he didn't want to admit it, so thats why he split it into 2 parts, sorta 3 if you count the Scratch bits.

But what you said makes plenty of sense. He's dragging it out, seems logical. From what I understand, he is making a living off Homestuck. Who is to say his next project will be nearly as successful?

[IHateMakingNames]

Hussie is using way to many Rose references for this Aradia and Rose to not be related.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Its seeming that Aradia is the one to appearify Jaspers, because I vaguely remember that furniture being associated with the event.

[Loyal]

EDIT: At this point part of my criticism really stems from my personal suspicion that Hussie has elongated Act Five far past what he originally anticipated solely so he could continue to profit from Homestuck because Homestuck is popular and he's afraid of what he's going to do once it endsWhatever faults Hussie may have, I sincerely doubt this is one of them. Homestuck is far from the first creative endeavor he's ever undertaken, (http://www.andrewhussie.com/comics.php) and it's a sure bet that whatever (if anything) he decides to do after Homestuck, he will have an instant and devoted fan/customer-base for it because he's Andrew Hussie.

[ed] Like, he's egotistical, but he's a talented (http://www.andrewhussie.com/comic.php?sec=archive&auth=Andrew&cid=aids/00000.jpg) motherfucker (http://www.andrewhussie.com/comic.php?sec=archive&auth=Andrew&cid=nich/00001.jpg) and it'd be foolish to assume he could be anything but successful with whatever he attempts next.

[Locke cole]

Yeah, I remember a time when we were wondering what the hell he could possibly do that would measure up to Problem Sleuth.

And, well, we got this.

I don't think he needs to worry about that any time soon.

[Solid Snake]

I don't deny his talent.
But I'm struggling to find any other permissible explanation as to why Act Five in Homestuck is the most unnecessarily longest thing in the history of unnecessarily long things

I understand people will disagree with me and try to justify every single update as being utterly necessary and integral to everything
And I respect that
But I just completely and utterly disagree

[POS Industries]

Hey guys, remember when the final battle with Mobster Kingpin in Problem Sleuth was the entire second half of the comic?

This is pretty much the thing that happens when Hussie has too many ideas at once for his own good, because he always has too many ideas at once for his own good. I'm not saying this is necessarily good or bad, it's just sort of a thing you have to expect from the guy.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Honestly, whatever his reason, I actually don't have a problem with it. Be it to more properly tell the story or just stretch it out, i don't care. I guess its a bit shallow a reason, but I like Homestuck, so I have no problem with it taking longer than expected to finish.

[rpgdemon]

Yeah, I remember a time when we were wondering what the hell he could possibly do that would measure up to Problem Sleuth.

And, well, we got this.

I don't think he needs to worry about that any time soon.

I don't see how anyone liked Problem Sleuth. I read it through, after getting into Homestuck, and it was pretty... Boring and meh. I felt like it was a big waste of time, and as if it was constantly almost ready to get to the good part.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I thought Problem Sleuth was pretty fun to read all in one night because it then made even less sense which made it more enjoyably whacky.

[Locke cole]

It was pretty good at the time, but, well.

...I guess it's a case of "you had to be there". Back when he was doing Problem Sleuth, Hussie was still taking user input for commands. This caused some slowdown and frivolity. A lot of it. But it was fun for those involved, trying to put in commands to advance the plot/win the battle. Partway through the comic, Hussie started just using his own "commands" when he needed to get things moving already.

With Homestuck, he closed the suggestion boxes altogether sometime after John's meteor hit. Instead of directly taking suggestions, he does his own thing, which keeps things more coherent, and takes user input by instead patrolling his fandomm and letting them "call" things.

I kind of miss the command boxes, though. That and the commissions. At least I had a commission made before he closed up that service.

[Loyal]

I don't see how anyone liked Problem Sleuth. I read it through, after getting into Homestuck, and it was pretty... Boring and meh. I felt like it was a big waste of time, and as if it was constantly almost ready to get to the good part.Yeah, if you got into Homestuck before reading Problem Sleuth it probably won't have much to offer you. Homestuck started as an expansion of everything that made PS an exciting draw and kinda just moved on from there.
I understand people will disagree with me and try to justify every single update as being utterly necessary and integral to everything
And I respect that
But I just completely and utterly disagree Just so long as we don't go down this road again (http://nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1109490#post1109490). I would hate for that to happen.

[Solid Snake]

Just so long as we don't go down this road again (http://nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1109490#post1109490). I would hate for that to happen.

Oh God it's the classic "Snake is criticizing Homestuck, therefore he is evil and hates Homestuck and should be publicly mocked for hating something we all like, even though Snake actually really likes Homestuck and we're just going to conveniently ignore that so we can get arbitrarily offended at the notion that there's anything to criticize in a product we like" spiel again.

Yeah that was a fun road to walk down.

[POS Industries]

I agree, and am volunteering my hand for all to hold and skip merrily down a different road.

Any road at all. Even one where the trees throw apples at us, I don't give a fuck. We can even sing!

[Solid Snake]

Any road at all. Even one where the trees throw apples at us, I don't give a fuck. We can even sing!

Can I sing some James Taylor?
I've been desperate to bust out some "Fire and Rain" lately.

[POS Industries]

Can I sing some James Taylor?
I've been desperate to bust out some "Fire and Rain" lately.

Did you know that I once lived just down the road from where he wrote that?

True story! Also an incredibly depressing story in every regard except for the parts that involved me. It was actually a pretty great apartment with a lovely location just outside of downtown. But really sad for James. :(

[Solid Snake]

Man I love James Taylor, he's gotta be one of my favorite musicians for the way he seamlessly weaves memorable narratives into his music.
But yeah a Homestuck thread probably isn't the best place to talk about Taylor, is it?

But "Oh, I've seen fire and I've seen rain...
I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end...
I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend...
But I always thought that I'd see you again."

...Suzanne, the plans they made put an end to you. =/

[POS Industries]

But yeah a Homestuck thread probably isn't the best place to talk about Taylor, is it?
Probably not, but what's to talk about that we already haven't? Aradia or possibly not Aradia is locked in a room battling Doc Scratch while a bright red spaceship warps toward Alternia, we have absolutely no idea why, and quite frankly I'd rather we were seeing what was happening with Rose, Dave, and !Droog. But here we are.

I’ve been walking my mind to an easy time
My back turned towards the sun
Lord knows the cold wind blows it’ll turn your head around
Well, there’s hours of time on the telephone line
To talk about things to come
Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground.

[Art of Hilt]

Doc Scratch gave Aradia a bed with card symbols and grubs on it.
There is nothing about this whole situation that isn't fundamentally disturbing.

[Loyal]

I imagine it's the equivalent of a child's bed, if trolls had beds.

Trolls have a fundamentally distrubing society, after all. It wouldn't surprise me to have the facets of romance and such drilled into them at an early age, considering the whole "mate or die" thing.

But hey, have some (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=686tHIbQhaw) voice acting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXUu4m3gbgM) shenanigans. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJJwHNBvONk)

[Bard The 5th LW]

I thought this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnG10rk9lqg&feature=feedlik) was pretty neat.

[Fifthfiend]

Who is to say his next project will be nearly as successful?

Assuming his next project is an AU of all of his human and troll characters going to high school in Japan,

spectacularly successful

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Assuming his next project is an AU of all of his human and troll characters going to high school in Japan,

spectacularly successful

...I really hope the Horrorterrors aren't coming along for the ride.

[BitVyper]

I bet Not-Aradia either has, had, or will have Jaspers at some point.

...I really hope the Horrorterrors aren't coming along for the ride.

What part of

all of his human and troll characters going to high school in Japan

Don't you understand?

[Specterbane]

Assuming his next project is an AU of all of his human and troll characters going to high school in Japan,

spectacularly successful

It worked for Evangelion, right? Worked sooooooo well, right?

[Revising Ocelot]

Update? Update. Don't think you guys have seen it.

I'll just say one thing - when Scratch refers to the mother of all monsters, is this the ancestor version of Echidna? It sounds much like the deal offered to Jade. And given the whole guardian swap thing, that's how J = Jade's grandson. It's a Scratch'd Grandpa Halley.

Also, way to drag the act out further.

[Viridis]

Oh wow. This changes things.

What precedents do you think this sets and will apply to the kid's session? Will humanity be more violent post-Scratch? Will there be a new First Guardian?

Given that the kid's session already made Bec (unlike the first troll session, it seems), I doubt that second one.

[Locke cole]

Um...

I believe "holy shit" is the only way to react to this.

So, the ancestors are Scratched versions of trolls that played the game once before, in a session where troll society was ill prepared and lost the game. And THe Sufferer began to remember his pre-Scratched past. And why is Aradia(?) showing us the display behind the 5th wall?

And "mother of all monsters" indeed refers to echidna. It fits with the relevant mythology.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Echidna makes sense since her needles are needed for the Scratch, it seems.

This changes some views of the Guardians, especially Rose's comments regarding her mother.

[Dracorion]

Unless the Kids are supposed to play the same role as the ancestors.

Which is to say, Scratching their session and having their descendants pick up a new one.

[Locke cole]

It's more like a switch, really. The way Doc Scratch put it, he suggested that in both sessions, scratched and unscratched, the same 24 wigglers were ectobiologized.

However, when the trolls that we know as the ancestors performed the scratch, it switched the roles around. The 12 that had been the heroes were sent back further to become ancestors, and the 12 that had been ancestors were sent back earlier, to become the heroes.

In other words, in the unscratched timeline, Karkat was the Suffere's ancestor, Vriska was Mindfang's, etc.

I wonder if we'll get to see the kind of person Vriska would've become without the influence of that journal. Just a thought.

And another thing: the way Scratch talks about the "unfathomable cascade of misfortune" leading to the session's failure and the universe's destruction as Lord English's calling card... It almost sounds like he's implying that it's Lord English who is truly responsible for Universe U2's cancer, rather than Karkat, Gamzee, or Vriska.

[Loyal]

Man, fuck all that, we get to see The Sufferer!

[Dracorion]

Well, English is responsible for Scratch is reponsible for Troll culture is responsible for Karkat, Gamzee and Vriska.