Homesuck: Vriska Rising

[Aldurin]

The other kids are merely plot vessels used to introduce Dirk, otherwise they are meaningless.

[Loyal]

In the Dream Bubbles, there is nothing but dead HBs.

[Flarecobra]

And that is how Dirk says "Fuck you."

[Locke cole]

Dirk or AutoResponder?

I can't tell who's more amazing.

Especially when they're talking to each other.

[Arcanum]

I think we're all missing the most important thing here (and frankly I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up sooner considering we've seen Bro-Dirk's desktop before). Dirk's denizen is going to be Complete Bullshit. Or even better, Delirious Biznasty (If that's even a web browser. I don't remember if we saw Dave open it up)

[Flarecobra]

Either that, or it's buried in one of those New Folders.

[Loyal]

We've seen these programs before. (http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002357)

Why mess with success, eh?

[Ecks]

It reminds me of Dave and and Davesprite, only instead of positive "we are so awesome" comments it's basically "ha ha I'm fucking with you" "yeah I know I programmed you to fuck with me so in reality I'm actually fucking with you"

Dirk fucking invented irony.

[POS Industries]

Okay, this is already starting to get even more tedious than however goddamn many months of troll romance horseshit we had to sit through.

[Arhra]

But, but POS, we're getting to see them have the exact same conversation from the other side.

Instead of some kid typing into some computer, we're getting some other kid typing into some other computer.

Just wait until it is revealed that UU was listening in on their conversation the whole time!

[Fifthfiend]

Okay, this is already starting to get even more tedious than however goddamn many months of troll romance horseshit we had to sit through.

TT: Let me just show you this grid

[Ecks]

TT: I don't think anyone really gives a fuck about the grid. The grid hasn't been funny since it was drawn, and there was a shitty reaction panel somewhere to prove it.

http://images.wikia.com/mspaintadventures/images/d/d9/LOSAD.png

TT: There. I think that's the one.

[Locke cole]

What grid?

[Fifthfiend]

This one (http://www.almightydad.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/perfect-pumkin.jpg).

[Locke cole]

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/C-N/MSPA/questionface.png

[Aldurin]

Wow, AR vs/with Dirk is pretty hilarious.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/C-N/MSPA/questionface.png
The problem is that when the subject of troll romance is broached, our sparing human intellects instantly assume the most ingratiating posture of surrender imaginable.

But we will do our best to understand regardless.

Humans have only one form of romance. And though we consider it a complicated subject, spanning a wide range of emotions, social conventions, and implications for reproduction, it is ultimately a superficial slice of what trolls consider the full body of romantic experience. Our concept of romance, in spite of its capacity to fill our art and literature and to rule our individual destinies like little else, is still just that. A single, linear concept. A concept usually denoted by a single symbol.

<3

Troll romance is more complicated than that. Troll romance needs four symbols.

Their understanding of romance is divided into halves, and halved again, producing four quadrants: the FLUSHED QUADRANT, the CALIGINOUS QUADRANT, the PALE QUADRANT, and the ASHEN QUADRANT.

Each quadrant is grouped by the half they share, whether horizontally or vertically, depending on the overlapping properties one examines. The sharpest dichotomy, from an emotional perspective, is drawn between RED ROMANCE and BLACK ROMANCE.

RED ROMANCE, comprised of the flushed and pale quadrants, is a form of romance rooted in strongly positive emotions. BLACK ROMANCE, with its caliginous and ashen quadrants, is rooted in the strongly negative.

On the other hand, the vertical bifurcation has to do with the purpose of the relationship, regardless of the emotions behind it. Those quadrants which are CONCUPISCENT, the flushed and caliginous, have to do with facilitating the elaborate reproductive cycle of trolls. Those which are CONCILIATORY, the pale and ashen, would be more closely likened to platonic relationships by human standards.

There are many parallels between human relationships and the various facets of troll romance. Humans have words to describe relationships of a negative nature, or of a platonic nature. The difference is, for humans, those relationships would never be conceptually grouped with romance. Establishing those sort of relationships for humans is not driven by the same primal forces that drive our tendency to couple romantically. But for trolls, those primal forces involve themselves in the full palette of these relationships, red or black, torrid or friendly. Trolls typically feel strongly compelled to find balance in each quadrant, and seek gratifying relationships that each describes.

The challenge is particularly tortuous for young trolls, who must reconcile the wide range of contradictory emotions associated with this matrix, while understanding the nature of their various romantic urges for the first time.

Of course, young humans have this challenge too. But for trolls, the challenge is fourfold.

When two individuals find themselves in the flushed quadrant together, they are said to be MATESPRITS. Matespritship is the closest parallel to the human concept of romance trolls have. It plays a role in the trolls' reproductive cycle, just as it does for humans.

This is pretty obvious! Not much more needs to be said about this. Moving right along.

When a pair of adversaries delve into this quadrant, they become each other's KISMESIS. As one of the concupiscent quadrants, it plays a role in procreation as well. There is no particularly good human translation for this concept. The closest would be an especially potent arch-rivalry.

For instance, human players would never be able to adequately diagnose the relationship between the queen and her archagent. But troll players could immediately place it as a dead ringer for kismesissitude. They would think we were all pretty stupid for not getting it. And they would be right.

Trolls have a complicated reproductive cycle. It's probably best not to examine it in much detail.

The need to seek out concupiscent partners comes with more urgency than typical reproductive instincts. When the IMPERIAL DRONE comes knocking, you had better be able to supply genetic material to each of his FILIAL PAILS. If you have nothing to offer, he will kill you without hesitation.

The genetic material - WITHOUT GOING INTO MUCH DETAIL - is a combinative genetic mix from the matesprit and kismesis pairs, respectively. The pails are all offered to the mother grub, who can only receive such precombined material. She then combines all of it into one incestuous slurry, and begins her brooding.

This doesn't mean the initial combination was for naught, however. In the slurry, more dominant genes rise to the fore, while the more recessive find less representation in the brood. Especially strong matesprit and kismesis pairings yield more dominant genetic material. The more powerful the complement or potent the rivalry, the more dominant the genes.

TROLL REPRODUCTION SURE IS WEIRD. We all take a moment to lament how pedestrian the human reproductive system is, and further lament that the phrase "incestuous slurry" is not a feature of common parlance in human civilization.

This quadrant involves a particular type of three-way relationship of a black romantic nature. Falling on the conciliatory side, it has no bearing on the reproductive cycle, except for indirect ramifications.

When two trolls are locked in a feud or some otherwise contentious relationship, one can intervene and become their AUSPISTICE. The auspistice mediates between the two, playing the role of a peace keeper, preventing the feud from boiling over into a fully caliginous rivalry.

Since such lesser feuds are quite common among trolls, there is a significant need for auspisticing parties. Without them, too many ashen feuds would become caliginous, and begin to conflict with other exclusive kismesis relationships, leading to a great deal of social complexity and sore feelings (even more so than black romance usually involves). Without auspisticism, the result would be widespread black infidelity.

The relationships each quadrant describes tend to be malleable, if not volatile, especially on the concupiscent half where more torrid emotions reside. It doesn't take much to flip a switch and transmute blackrom feelings to redrom, and vice versa.

In many cases, one party will have red feelings while the other has black. But it will often be the case that one party's feelings will swap to match the other's, since there is no quadrant which naturally accommodates such a disparity. But thereafter, it's not uncommon for the two to toggle between red and black in unison now and then. These scenarios naturally result in both red and black infidelities.

This sort of relationship volatility is why conciliatory relationships are an important part of troll romance.

An auspistice can stabilize particularly turbulent relationships. If the auspistice fails to mediate properly, or has no interest in the role, or perhaps has different romantic intentions him/herself altogether, then the relationship often quickly deteriorates into one of an especially hostile and torrid nature. There are many outside factors and influences tugging and pulling these relationships in different directions, and unlike humans who have very orderly, simple, straightforward romantic relationships without exception, trolls exist in a state of almost perpetual confusion and generally have no idea what the hell is going on.

Being confused by troll relationships is one thing we do have in common though.

This quadrant presides over MOIRALLEGIENCE, the other conciliatory relationship. A reasonable human translation would be the concept of a soul mate, but in a more platonic sense, and with a more specific social purpose.

Trolls are a very angry and violent race. Some are more hot-tempered and dangerous than others, to the extent that if left to their own devices, they would present a serious threat to society, or even to themselves. Such trolls will have an instinctive pale attraction to a more even-tempered troll, who may become their MOIRAIL. The moirail is obliged to pacify the other, to function as the better half. The two partners in a strong pale relationship will serve to balance and complement each other's emotional profiles, and thus allow their other relationships to be more successful.

It's often ambiguous especially among young trolls whether a bond formed between an acquaintance is true moirallegence, or the usual variety of platonic involvement. Furthermore, romantic intentions of a more flushed nature can often be mistaken for paler leanings, much to the frustration of the suitor.

But some pale pairings, as the one above, will be strikingly obvious to all who know them.

God you just can't get enough of this can you! That would have been a great point for a transition out of this illustrated sociological study, but ok, if you insist.

Now see, what's going on here is...

It's perfectly simple. When the full matrix of troll romance is in action, we have... uh...

Hey, why don't you figure it out! You should be an expert on all this by now anyway.

Later our troll hero would try to explain this to our human hero, attempting to convey all the nuance of troll romance through a nearly verbatim recitation of the preceding excerpts.

He would try to describe how rich and textured the troll romantic comedies were compared to the one dimensional schlock of our human cinematic counterparts. He would barely scratch the surface of Troll Will Smith's virtuosity with the delicate lattice of troll romance, as he would assist the bumbling fudgeblooded Troll Kevin James through the interwoven minefield-briarpatch of redrom and blackrom entanglements, all the while sifting through his own prickly romantic situation and ultimately learning the true meaning of hate and pity. But would they succeed before the imperial drone came knocking with his thirsty pails at the ready??? Yes, they would.

But John didn't understand any of this because he's a moron, and he wouldn't shut up about his awful bullshit Earth movies. He would just go on and on and on about that garbage.

But if there was one theme to be hammered through his thick skull, it would be the trolls' cultural preoccupation with romantic destiny. Yes, the romantic landscape is rife with false starts and miscues and infidelities, red and black. But every troll believes strongly that each quadrant holds one and only one true pairing for them, and it is just a matter of time before the grid is filled with auspicious matchups through the mysterious channels of TROLL SERENDIPITY.

In short, their belief is that for each quadrant there exists a pair or triad of trolls somewhere in the cosmos that were...

MADE FOR EACH OTHER.

[Locke cole]

Oh. That grid. With the quadrants. To be quite honest, if I had heard "quadrants", I'd have remembered.

[Aldurin]

Both dirks are the best character.

[Ecks]

Why do I get the feeling Dirk/AR is going to be the next Past/Future Karkat thing? And we're going to get a Jane caught in between the two of them arguing and flipping her shit on them for it. Complete with callback panels to boot.

[Flarecobra]

And no "Lass Scamper?"

[Solid Snake]

It's weird how Homestuck has reached this point where, like
Whenever it's the regular Act I know I'm gradually yet inevitably going to lose interest
But then an Intermission comes along and all the sudden, I'm sucked right back in!
...Then back to those new kids and fuck, there goes my interest again.
...Then it's Karkat and Dave and Rose and John and Kanaya and Terezi and Davesprite and Jade and fuck I'm glued to the screen again

[Ecks]

Okay... Snake? If you aren't paying attention to the Act proper then what the flying fuck are you doing stop not liking things that I like dammit Dirk is reason enough to actually read the Act

[Solid Snake]

I'm still reading the Act, I'm just not nearly as intrigued by it

Dirk's cool and all, but still

[Bard The 5th LW]

I really want to see more of Jake. He's the Alpha kid I'm most interested in. (he's the alpha kid everyone is most interested in canonically)

[Ryong]

I really want to see more of Jake. He's the Alpha kid I'm most interested in. (he's the alpha kid everyone is most interested in canonically)

*ba dum tish* ?

Alright then Hussie, Bards and Princes are opposites, go figure.

[Loyal]

One-half Signless with what looks like Nepeta's jacket, eh. Between that, the grey text, and the shipping, I'm guessing this is a reality where Karkat and Nepeta got together.

[stefan]

UU is the best troll (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/scraps/dirkisthisyoU.gif)

[Flarecobra]

Thank you Hussie. I now have coffee all over my monitor.

And that is one of the worst outfits ever.

[Locke cole]

I don't like Prince being a "Destroyer" class.

Because that would mean that Eridan did something right.

[Art of Hilt]

I actually don't mind that. It shows he wasn't corrupted or anything like that, he's just a regular jerk who awakened his powers and immediately used them on his friends instead of his enemies like he should.

Also, it looks like the class pairs have matching genders too.
So time to mix everything up again.
-Thief|Rogue+ as a pair is female-bias; -Prince|Bard+ as a pair is male-exclusive.
So two of Seer, Sylph, Maid and Witch are paired as female bias or exclusive. And two of Mage, Heir, Knight and Page are paired as male bias or exclusive. That what it seems like to me.

[POS Industries]

I'm still reading the Act, I'm just not nearly as intrigued by it

Dirk's cool and all, but still
I'm actually with Snake on this. It's not bad and I'm certainly finding the entertaining bits entertaining, but I'm finding Roxy to be the only outright hilarious character of the new bunch, and even she's not on the same level as the original kids.

Also Hussie needs to knock the "view the same conversation from the perspective of the other party" stuff the fuck out already. The worst one was when he even reused the same image.

[Fifthfiend]

I don't like Prince being a "Destroyer" class.

Because that would mean that Eridan did something right.

I guess it's good to have confirmed that the titles basically have like no connection to what they actually mean.

Or no I'm sorry I mean a super-deep non-literal unshallow ultra-clever connection to what they mean that just happens to be literally in no way distinguishable from having nothing to do with what they actually mean.

I mean except for all of the other titles which pretty much are what they mean.

MERRY go round and round and round and

[Fifthfiend]

I'm actually with Snake on this. It's not bad and I'm certainly finding the entertaining bits entertaining, but I'm finding Roxy to be the only outright hilarious character of the new bunch, and even she's not on the same level as the original kids.

Dirky Sue is really unavoidably not as radcoolically awesomeacular and interetastic as Hussie so palpably, viscerably wants him to be.

[Solid Snake]

Dirky Sue is really unavoidably not as radcoolically awesomeacular and interetastic as Hussie so palpably, viscerably wants him to be.

I like him a heck of a lot more than Vriska Sue, though.

Also: Man I remember way back in the Act 5 days, when Hussie was like "Well Act 5 is really hella long but Act 6 will be much shorter and basically just post-climax wrapping shit up, and then Act 7 will just be a few flashes." You know, back when the EOA flash rocked the hizzy and then I assumed we'd just have a few more months of tidying up to do as the kids wandered around their new universe or something.

Man those were the days.
Now I'm more convinced than ever that Homestuck will just like never end.
We'll reach the EOA Act Six flash and then Andrew will be like "Sorry guys, I decided Act Seven will actually contain serious amounts of content, it won't just be a few flashes!"
...And then EOA Act Six will result in the Alpha Kids and the old-school crew all collectively escaping the clutches of the Evil Empress by...escaping that universe and restarting the session
At which point we'll meet the new Alpha kids, which will be Rose and Dave and Jade and John in college at age 19.

Then the fourth edition of Alpha 'kids' will be Dirk, Jake, Jane and Roxy as adult corporate shills in their mid-twenties.
And then after that the NEXT reboot will be so powerful that it impacts the universe of the trolls' session, leading to Ancestor shenanigans.
Will kiddie Sufferer return kiddie Disciple's unrequited affections?!?!?

[Arcanum]

And then after that the NEXT reboot will be so powerful that it impacts the universe of the trolls' session, leading to Ancestor shenanigans.
Will kiddie Sufferer return kiddie Disciple's unrequited affections?!?!?


This is quite possibly the best thing that could happen to Homestuck.

e- but yeah Act 6 is totally never going to end.

[IHateMakingNames]

I'm okay with authors extending their popular work. Look how much extra One Piece we've gotten and are getting because of that.

[Aldurin]

Shame on snake for wanting a boring homestuck.

[Solid Snake]

I'm okay with authors extending their popular work. Look how much extra One Piece we've gotten and are getting because of that.

It's worked so well for Bleach
And The Office (USA)
(And every single other television show out there that's long outstayed its welcome)

You see the problem is, great stuff is great, but too much of it in any way, shape or form will eventually dilute the crap out of the quality.
I'd much rather the story stuck to its original plan -- whatever the original plan was (my guess is originally the narrative in Act Six would follow the kids into the new universe, where they'd just meet the Guardian Alpha Kids mid-session, and maybe we'd learn bits and pieces in a few flashbacks.)

[IHateMakingNames]

Well let's hope it's a One Piece. Given, you already seem to think it's past that point but I'm enjoying Act 6. It's reminding me of Act 1/2 but as if you already read Act 5.

[Arcanum]

I have a feeling Hussie's original "plan" was just "kids escape from their universe, meet alpha kids (who are their guardians). Shenanigans happen."

[Bard The 5th LW]

I didn't really mind Hivebent, but yeah these updates are sort of bugging me to an extent as well. Dirk and Roxy are interesting, sure, and the mechanics of Sburb are also neat, but I overall just want to get back to the kids and surviving trolls.

[Locke cole]

Actually, friggin' all of the concepts make no sense.

Light is actually Fortune
Heart is actually Soul
Princes and Bards are Destroyers?

I mean

What was keeping Hussie from just making Vriska the Thief of Luck?

In fact, at this point, the weird ones are Breath and Time for actually doing what they sound like they'd do.

[POS Industries]

I like him a heck of a lot more than Vriska Sue, though.

Also: Man I remember way back in the Act 5 days, when Hussie was like "Well Act 5 is really hella long but Act 6 will be much shorter and basically just post-climax wrapping shit up, and then Act 7 will just be a few flashes." You know, back when the EOA flash rocked the hizzy and then I assumed we'd just have a few more months of tidying up to do as the kids wandered around their new universe or something.

Man those were the days.
Now I'm more convinced than ever that Homestuck will just like never end.
We'll reach the EOA Act Six flash and then Andrew will be like "Sorry guys, I decided Act Seven will actually contain serious amounts of content, it won't just be a few flashes!"
...And then EOA Act Six will result in the Alpha Kids and the old-school crew all collectively escaping the clutches of the Evil Empress by...escaping that universe and restarting the session
At which point we'll meet the new Alpha kids, which will be Rose and Dave and Jade and John in college at age 19.

Then the fourth edition of Alpha 'kids' will be Dirk, Jake, Jane and Roxy as adult corporate shills in their mid-twenties.
And then after that the NEXT reboot will be so powerful that it impacts the universe of the trolls' session, leading to Ancestor shenanigans.
Will kiddie Sufferer return kiddie Disciple's unrequited affections?!?!?

I'm no longer with Snake on this one.

Like, I'm just sort of less enthused than I was previously. Probably has to do with this being a big throwback to act 1 whereas the story really started to find its bearings in act 2.

[Arhra]

Dirky Sue is really unavoidably not as radcoolically awesomeacular and interetastic as Hussie so palpably, viscerably wants him to be.

Isn't the whole point that Dirk isn't as radcoolically awesomeacular as he thinks he is?

[Ryong]

I like him a heck of a lot more than Vriska Sue, though.

Also: Man I remember way back in the Act 5 days, when Hussie was like "Well Act 5 is really hella long but Act 6 will be much shorter and basically just post-climax wrapping shit up, and then Act 7 will just be a few flashes." You know, back when the EOA flash rocked the hizzy and then I assumed we'd just have a few more months of tidying up to do as the kids wandered around their new universe or something.

Man those were the days.
Now I'm more convinced than ever that Homestuck will just like never end.
We'll reach the EOA Act Six flash and then Andrew will be like "Sorry guys, I decided Act Seven will actually contain serious amounts of content, it won't just be a few flashes!"
...And then EOA Act Six will result in the Alpha Kids and the old-school crew all collectively escaping the clutches of the Evil Empress by...escaping that universe and restarting the session
At which point we'll meet the new Alpha kids, which will be Rose and Dave and Jade and John in college at age 19.

Then the fourth edition of Alpha 'kids' will be Dirk, Jake, Jane and Roxy as adult corporate shills in their mid-twenties.
And then after that the NEXT reboot will be so powerful that it impacts the universe of the trolls' session, leading to Ancestor shenanigans.
Will kiddie Sufferer return kiddie Disciple's unrequited affections?!?!?


:crossarms:

Hey Snake. Stop it.

Remember when Terezi killed Vriska by not even trying to overcome her flaws? Remember when Gamzee killed a bunch of people but it's okay 'cause he's Gamzee and he's just like that? Vriska had issues but she wasn't as much of a sue as much as she did everything she could to get stronger. And then it didn't really matter, 'cause everyone was fucking absurdly strong anyway.

Shit, like, there's been padding in this act and the updates aren't coming as fast as they have been in the past so maybe, just maybe, it's that? I mean, shit, I find the whole deal with everyone aging up 3 years to catch up pants on head retarded, but this act is pretty much Homestuck as usual.

[Aldurin]

Isn't the whole point that Dirk isn't as radcoolically awesomeacular as he thinks he is?

You are a terrible person.

[Arcanum]

Al this may come as a shock but Dirk isn't as radcoolically awesomeacular as you think he is.

[Flarecobra]

Ironically.


Any bets that in a real fight, he'd just run away?

[Ecks]

Wasn't the whole point of Dave's quest for him to come into his own as a hero and realize he actually is a lot cooler than he thinks he is? Sure he talks himself up and throws a little smack around, but per SBaHJ and other pages of Homestuck proper, Dave feels like the weakest link out of the group. When he's actually one of the strongest (Dog Tier Jade notwithstanding) and most useful members of the team (especially post-ascension).

On the flip side we have Dirk who is so full of himself he's entertaining the notion that he's actually pulling the strings in a session that is entirely predestined from start to finish. He micromanages things so much (per his Heart aspect) that he simultaneously manages a waking self and dream self, spies on Dersites for intel during his legendary infinite showers, argues with his autoresponder (much the way an older brother would argue with a younger... AR switching chat colors to red was very significant I think) while trying to keep Roxy out of trouble, get Jane in the session, and seduce the fuck out of poor unsuspecting Jake. This dude is more of a meddler than Vriska.

His quest is going to revolve around realizing he doesn't need his hands in everyone's business, and that he needs to learn to trust his teammates to handle their shit. He's not the Time player for fuck's sake, it's not his job to run around putting out everyone's fires.

[Art of Hilt]

Any bets that in a real fight, he'd just run away?

That depends, does getting ambushed by HB and then chopping his head off not count as a real fight?

[Flarecobra]

No, that's a "get the fuck outta here." moment.

I ment like what Bro, Davesprite, and Jack went through

[Arcanum]

Considering he's still fundamentally the same Bro, I'm gonna say him running like a coward isn't all that likely.

[BitVyper]

Captain Snoop! You're alive!

[Loyal]

TT: Nothin'.
TT: Hang on, though. Before you go,
TT: You never did give me any actual advice on my situation.
TT: With the dead agent, and my blown cover.
UU: oh, right!
UU: i woUld look at it this way.
UU: yoU are moments away from beginning yoUr session, yes?
TT: Sure.
UU: and yoU have already spent a long time gathering intelligence Unbeknownst to the aUthorities.
UU: how mUch more do yoU expect to accUmUlate even if yoU coUld stay Undetected?
UU: and how mUch strategic advantage is left to gain by delaying yoUr discovery for mUch longer?
TT: I don't know.
UU: i say the time to make a stand is now!
UU: to hell with the dersite tossers.
UU: make yoUr presence known. let them see that the prince is awake, and make it abUndantly clear what that means.
UU: perhaps it is their tUrn to be nervoUs? to cower in the shadows and live in Uncertainty? Pretty sure she's telling Dirk to become Batman here.

[Art of Hilt]

Pretty sure she's telling Dirk to become Batman here.


Dirk pondered upon his dilemma. It is true, what UU said. In his mind, the cogs began to turn: "Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot," he thought, "so my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts! I must be a creature of the night. Black. Terrible. A... a..."
Just then, a particularly well-endowed Smuppet flew past his window.

[Locke cole]

He's a Prince, not a Bard. A codpiece outfit would just be out of place on him, and that's the best way for him to "become a smuppet"

[BitVyper]

I guess it's good to have confirmed that the titles basically have like no connection to what they actually mean.

I'm pretty sure the Prince class is heavily related to princes like Paris, who is ultimately responsible for the destruction of Troy. I think that's an example that relates really well to how we've seen the class play out so far. Alternately, princes like, almost always herald destruction. Just looking at Greek myth, how many kings have had sons who were prophesied to destroy them? How many of those sons totally tore up the established order (other than the line of kingship, of course)?

There's also Aragorn; Strider, incase anyone wants to question the parallel. Aragorn isn't just a prince (prior to actually taking the throne of Gondor, anyway), but he has a certain amount of duality being the ranger, Strider, and the proper ruler of Gondor, (not to mention having two women in love with him) so he actually fits pretty well as Prince of Heart. I could go through the story and try to count up all the things Aragorn did to fit them into this perspective (not that I think princes ALWAYS need to be destroying things in Homestuck terms; Eridan was just a psychopath), but one of his greatest acts out of the books was calling up an army of ghosts (undead being pretty classically dual natured themselves what with having one foot in the afterlife while they linger here) to wreck the fuck out of Sauron's corsairs.

Princes are all about wrecking shit up. It's not an interpretation that holds true 100% of the time, but it is definitely a pretty valid interpretation in a statistically significant number of cases if we want to split hairs, and it's one that works better for a class that isn't going to level up to "king." Heh, I wonder if that's why the Princes we've seen in Homestuck tend to be a bit frustrated.

Fake edit: Yes I know the name Strider was essentially chosen by fans, but that just shows one of the broad ways in which fans drive the story.

[stefan]

there's also the fact that Hussie has said once or twice that Homestuck, like the later stages of Problem Sleuth, has influence from JRPGs.

and anyone who's played a xeno-game knows that JRPGs from the mid-late 90's to the early-mid 2000's all had a really, really, really bad problem about vomiting unconnected faux-symbolism everywhere.

[BitVyper]

Well bear in mind that she only said a prince is *A* destroyer class, and only to indicate that it is a very active, self serving role. There are other destroyer classes, so there's other things that make a prince a prince.

[Amake]

Princes are all about wrecking shit up.
The prince is probably the prince in Machiavelli's The Prince, a ruthless monarch who doesn't hesitate to destroy any part of his kingdom (and everyone else's) in order to stay in power.

See also: Prince Charming of the fables, an expert strategist in war and romance, always looking for the way to do the most damage.

[Ecks]

Well bear in mind that she only said a prince is *A* destroyer class, and only to indicate that it is a very active, self serving role. There are other destroyer classes, so there's other things that make a prince a prince.

Pretty sure Heir would fit under the Destroyer descriptor. Pretty sure we've seen plenty of destroyin from both John and Equius.

[POS Industries]

Yeah, I would say the "destroyer" descriptor probably does just basically boil down to DPS.

[Locke cole]

But she paired it with Bard. I'm pretty sure that she meant that Prince and Bard are "one who destroys", in the same way that Thief and Rogue are "one who steals"

[BitVyper]

But she paired it with Bard. I'm pretty sure that she meant that Prince and Bard are "one who destroys", in the same way that Thief and Rogue are "one who steals"

Nope.

UU: a prince is a destroyer class.
UU: it is very far on the active side of the scale. its more passive coUnterpart woUld be the bard class. both of these are exclUsively designated for male players.
UU: to Understand a hero's capabilities, it always helps to search for the right way to parse the class/aspect pair into a more explicit statement.
UU: for instance, being active, a prince coUld be viewed as "one who destroys x, or caUses destrUction throUgh x," if x is the aspect.
UU: while the more passive bard coUld be seen as "one who allows x to be destroyed, or invites destrUction throUgh x," as if by the will of the aspect.

Both deal with destruction in some way, but the Bard is distinctly not a destroyer class.

[Ecks]

Thanks for cut/pasting that Bit, now I see what UU meant exactly. "A" destroyer class is in this instance specifically "the" destroyer class. The heir and knight have incredibly destructive skills but the skills in question are not particularly involved with destruction. Ergo, the prince is especially concerned with destruction, depending on the aspect and the individual hero's characteristics.

Per Bit's quote, Gamzee was the Bard of Rage. He invited or allowed destruction through rage, evidence being all over the horrorstuck segment. I suspect in fact that multiple aspect/class abilities were in play and playing off of each other without anyone recognizing that this was the case. Other than Doc Scratch of course. Eridan, as the Prince of Hope, destroyed the hopes of his race ever surviving to reproduce when he blew up the Matriorb, which he did while in a fit of rage. There are very complex relationships between a team's class and aspect powers, echoing the complex relationships between the teammates.

I find this really fascinating. It's too bad we'll never really learn the in depth mechanics, it seems as though Huss is deliberately being vague with some aspect/class combinations and we likely won't see too much of the dead players' power sets (at least not the ones that haven't been covered by reset kids anyway).

On that note, Huss hasn't updated in a couple of days. I sense a flash on the way. Or at the very least a huge smattering of pages next time he updates.

[Revising Ocelot]

On that note, Huss hasn't updated in a couple of days. I sense a flash on the way. Or at the very least a huge smattering of pages next time he updates.

He's on a week's hiatus to do stuff concerning the books.

[Ecks]

Derp should've checked the Hussman's tumblr.

[Flarecobra]

http://askdad.tumblr.com/

Dunno if amusing, so I need opinions from others.

[Solid Snake]

http://ib.skaia.net/image/38494.png

[Revising Ocelot]

So much innuendo in that update. I refuse to also read an early line as anything but:

TG: wankwankwankwankwank

[Locke cole]

Well today is the 14th.

[Loyal]

Request title change to "STEAMAY REALTITIES".

[Arhra]

there's also the fact that Hussie has said once or twice that Homestuck, like the later stages of Problem Sleuth, has influence from JRPGs.

and anyone who's played a xeno-game knows that JRPGs from the mid-late 90's to the early-mid 2000's all had a really, really, really bad problem about vomiting unconnected faux-symbolism everywhere.

So do you think UU's attempts to be British foreshadow attempting to usurp Lord English

[Ecks]

I think UU being British is just her thing. Like Gamzee being a juggalo or... actually I don't have another one. Someone help me out here, I'm watching Don't Mess With The Zohan and I keep getting distracted by Sandler's ridiculous antics.

[Art of Hilt]

Update!
... I'm crying.
I'm crying.
These tears that burn a joyous trail down my cheeks sing as they drop to the floor.

[BitVyper]

Somehow that doesn't look like the novice setting.

[Locke cole]

Mayhap Roxy simply got too drunk and distracted by dying cats to remember to do her "sweet haxxoring".

Man, let it never be said that Dirk does not have a certain sense of flair.

and I fully expect that someone has already created a "Deal With It" gif for that one moment where Brobot summoned more shades.

[Ecks]

On that note, Huss hasn't updated in a couple of days. I sense a flash on the way.

Fucking called it. It was amazing.

[Flarecobra]

Gotta say this: Jake does NOT give up.

[Loyal]

Briefly lost it at Jake getting his glasses smacked off.

[Aldurin]

Briefly lost it at Jake getting his glasses smacked off.

Same here, that was one of the best touches in the flash.

[POS Industries]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/scratchWV.gif

Well look who it is on the left!

[Locke cole]

Is that... Wayward Vagabond?

I guess he'd be something like Wartime Vassal, at this point.

[POS Industries]

Looks more like a Wandering Visitor at the moment.

[Flarecobra]

Or Person of Interest.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Is it just me or does Derse have no Prototype towers?

[Locke cole]

Is it just me or does Derse have no Prototype towers?

Similarly interesting, the Condesce's ring has no orbs.

[Aldurin]

Similarly interesting, the Condesce's ring has no orbs.

Theory, the scratched kids fail so hard at one of the crucial points in Sburb (prototyping) that they somehow succeed. That or three years gives the Sburb setting time to advanced beyond orb-based prototyping to something entirely different.

[Marc v4.0]

Theory: The entire session is completely fucked sideways to Thursday because this is the end of English.

Not really much of a Theory, since it is

[Revising Ocelot]

Prototyping shouldn't be necessary since John & Jade are bringing a fully-prototyped Battlefield with them to Skaia, anyway.

Has the side benefit of also making the Black King in this session irrelevant, I guess.

The lack of orbs on the ring backs up the zero prototypes idea, as Jack's ring had 4 orbs (3 lit, 1 unlit) when he acquired it as Jade hadn't entered the session yet. It could also just be a dummy ring, since the real ring wouldn't work on a non-carapacian, but I doubt it.

[Flarecobra]

... Ok, Jake's Echeladder is not suggestive that he's gay in any way.

OR IS IT!?

[Locke cole]

By the way "green-eyes-peeled-for-blue-lookers-nude.com" is actually a valid and active domain name.

[Arcanum]

I'd say it's SFW, but that site has been the source of an awful lot of shipping.

[Bard The 5th LW]

By the way "green-eyes-peeled-for-blue-lookers-nude.com" is actually a valid and active domain name.

The link just leads to Jake's introduction.

[Locke cole]

The link just leads to Jake's introduction.

Yes.

[Intern Nin]

Mindfang? Is that you?

[Bard The 5th LW]

WHAT

[Intern Nin]

I know right?

[Solid Snake]

Ahahaha
Everyone's going to fall in love with Jake
Only for Jake to fall in love with a dead version of alternate-universe Mindfang or something

[Dracorion]

I'm guessing it's pre-Scratch Mindfang.

[BitVyper]

I'm guessing it's pre-Scratch Mindfang.

Pre-scratch symbols are reversed, if I recall correctly.

Edit: Pictured. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005953)

Still, it might just be that they're reversed in that particular image, I suppose. I'm guessing that pre-scratch Sufferer's (or possibly Karkat's) message (whatever it was) was more accepted, so the pendant would make sense too. That, and having the pre-scratch Trolls involved with the post-scratch humans is fitting.

[Art of Hilt]

BEHOLD

THE REASON JAKE WILL BREAK EVERYONE'S HEARTS

EVERYONE'S

Is it me or does her glasses and hair look like a combination of Vriska and John?

[Specterbane]

Anyone notice the Cancer necklace on?

[Loyal]

Seems to have a bit of ghost-Aradia's schoolgirl outfit going for her as well.

Is it me or does her glasses and hair look like a combination of Vriska and John? Honestly it looks more like an amalgamation of Terezi and John. So all resemblances to anyone but Mindfang are probably wholly insignificant.

[Flarecobra]

I have to Dawwww so hard at the sleeping Tinkerbulls.

[POS Industries]

And with that last panel, Jane skyrocketed to best reset kid. Fuck all y'alls.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Anyone else notice there is literally tearing out of hearts while the figurative tearing out of hearts occurs?

[Solid Snake]

And with that last panel, Jane skyrocketed to best reset kid. Fuck all y'alls.

I'm having difficulty comprehending whether AutoResponder somehow hijacked the conversation and started answering for Jane, or whether Jane's going through one of those classic teenage "Oh hahaha I'm going to lie and cover up my feelings OH SHIT WHAT HAVE I DONE" moments.

[Loyal]

It's... pretty obviously the latter.

[Arcanum]

Oh Jane. Poor Jane. Poor stupid hilarious Jane.

[Art of Hilt]

Oh lord, Jane's face.
Jane's ridiculous, hilarious, yet heart-wrenching face. I'm torn between laughing and feeling my heart break.

Also Jake's canon bicuriosity.

[Ryong]

Jane has all of the regret.

All of the possible regret in the world.

[Ecks]

Somehow I knew Jane wasn't going to wind up with Jake willy nilly. Also, Roxy is going to kick her ass now. Yay for Dirk though, didn't see that one coming.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT GUISE I JUST FIGURED SOMETHING OUT. THE BATTERWITCH'S BRAINWASHING IS AT WORK IN THIS!

[BitVyper]

That actually seems likely.

[Locke cole]

Ease up on those keys, missy.

[Loyal]

Welp, the D E A D label is now meaningless.[/FONT]

Like maybe it has something to do with her title but then Feferi certainly stayed good and dead twice over.

I'm just wondering, what would a Bard or Prince of Time be like?

[Locke cole]

A Prince of Time would probably retroactively destroy you by killing you in the past.

A Bard of Time would seduce your mother before you were concieved.

[Art of Hilt]

Like maybe it has something to do with her title but then Feferi certainly stayed good and dead twice over.


Witches and Maids have different powers. Jade is the Witch of Space and the only power she attributes to that (as opposed to the Green Sun) is the ability to make things bigger and smaller. Feferi didn't exhibit any powers but the Condesce did: she made her own and the Psiioniic's lifespan longer, but was unable to restore the Psiioniic's life once it was gone. So Witches can manipulate things but not restore them out of nothing.

We don't know what Maids can do strictly speaking but evidentially it's a lot more automatic.

[Arcanum]

Welp, the D E A D label is now meaningless.[/FONT]

Like maybe it has something to do with her title but then Feferi certainly stayed good and dead twice over.

I'm just wondering, what would a Bard or Prince of Time be like?

Well Jane is the Maid of Life, and it seems like the Maid title is something like "someone who is at the mercy of X." If we look at Aradia, she just served the Alpha Timeline's purpose, keeping time on track with her endless doomed versions. Even her ascension to God Tier was an inevitable convoluted mess of weird time shit.

So now Jane is at the beck and call of life, and while she was dead for a moment there, it just wasn't her time to die yet.

[Locke cole]

So a Maid is "one who serves". Appropriate.

Parhaps a Page would be the counterpart to that.

[Aldurin]

Jack needs to see an anger therapist, since he has all these kids that he can never quite kill properly.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Jack needs to see an anger therapist, since he has all these kids that he can never quite kill properly.

Im thinking Jack is a stand in for Hussie, enraged as to how he cant kill the kids properly. This is the reverse of Gamzee, who is absolutely ecstatic about how well he is killing all those trolls.

[Ecks]

Anyone want to hazard a guess Jane's going to take a nap anytime soon? I get the feeling she's in for a face to face with the Archagent.

[Locke cole]

She did just say something to the effect of wanting to take a ragenap.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

She did just say something to the effect of wanting to take a ragenap.

What if she dies before entering the game and just uses her Dreamself the entire time?

They don't strictly need to prototype since Jade is bringing along a lovely Skaia for them all to share anyway.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Fuck Yeah White Queen.

[Arhra]

I think we can safely say page six thousand five hundred of Homestuck is the best page.

It could only have been improved by the addition of a sound effect.

[Loyal]

That panel alone deserved an [S].

[Flarecobra]

Naptime.

[Specterbane]

They don't strictly need to prototype since Jade is bringing along a lovely Skaia for them all to share anyway.

I don't think the original kid's Skaia can become a new universe because it only had The Tumor inside it.

[Locke cole]

Maybe their bringing along Skaia will do... something... to the Alpha Kids' Skaia. Who knows, with this game?

[POS Industries]

It can't become a new universe if the tumor explodes inside it. The tumor was removed, so it's good to go.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I thought the frog was the new universe?

[Loyal]

The frog becomes a new universe. Not Skaia. Prototyped Skaia is only required for the creation of the frog which becomes the universe. We don't yet know if Skaias can be shared between sessions, though, and in any case the Kids' Skaia got significantly damaged already (most notably, a massive hole leading to its empty core, courtesy of John). It's possible that the use of the old Skaia will result in the creation of the very same Genesis Frog that Jade created, minus Red Miles cancer.

We don't know what, if anything, is to be contained in a typical Skaia's core since by all accounts the kids were a unique case.

[Revising Ocelot]

Skaia /=/ the Battlefield, remember. As far as I see it, the Battlefield has to be sufficiently un-destroyed by meteors and such to fight the Black King, which then enables Skaia itself to become Bilious Slick's pond to squat in and become a universe. If the Battlefield has been completely destroyed by the meteors, Black King, omnipoterriers or what have you, then somehow the process is FUBAR'd. The Beta kids were already out of the running when Jack got his Regicide on. Perhaps the scepters (which have the representation of Skaia atop them) plays a part? The White scepter causes the Reckoning (which Jack used), while the Black scepter does something else (which Jack cut in half to depower the Black King).

Basically, we require more exposition minerals. Spawn more Overlords.

[Locke cole]

I thought that Skaia contained the Pond, and the Beta universe had the Tumor instead of a pond.

[Revising Ocelot]

Skaia /=/ Battlefield. The Battlefield is the chessboard planet thing which had the Tumour at the center, formed somehow by the faults of the session, either from Jack's actions or Karkat messing up BS's genetic code. Skaia is the general area around the Battlefield - which is what Prospit floats through - and is pretty much abstract clouds and blueness at our current perspective of the Alpha 'verse timeline. If there's no Battlefield, there's no means of using... whatever happens that causes Skaia to become Slick's pond, hence it may be some function of the Black Scepter while the Battlefield itself is probably some kind of catalyst that's powered up by prototypings. While the White Scepter invites destruction in the form of the Reckoning, the Black may cause the opposite. Pages like this (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005921) show the whole of Skaia becomes the pond, so I doubt it's just some stationary construct kept where the Tumour plopped itself.

EDIT: Meh, screw the Scepter stuff. The trolls beat the BK by smashing his.

[Ecks]

Can anyone appreciate the irony there? As Prospit encourages creation and the birth of Bilious Slick and Derse desires destruction and hurls blasphemies at him... the white scepter is the one that causes the Reckoning and the black holds http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/scraps/ultimatereward.gif.

[Flarecobra]

SO MUCH CATS.

Can I adopt one?

[Ecks]

Oh wow I like this update, very full of plot advancement meats and old reference cheeses. And I like those on my update sandwich.

[Aldurin]

Paradox scarf!

[Revising Ocelot]

So who'd be responsible for smashing up all the displays? I can only think of Spades Slick.

Well, he's got certain things about him still unexplained... like that robo-arm. (hello Dirk's robo-skills and your existing knowledge of Jack & co.)

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So who'd be responsible for smashing up all the displays? I can only think of Spades Slick.

Well, he's got certain things about him still unexplained... like that robo-arm. (hello Dirk's robo-skills and your existing knowledge of Jack & co.)

I actually thought the Robo-arm came from the ruins of the troll homeworld.

[Art of Hilt]

These updates have been oddly sweet

[Revising Ocelot]

So, back to Intermission now?

Neigh.

[Art of Hilt]

Another update.

Make sure you click on the bottom right corner of the update before you read the next spoiler.

JANE/ROXY OTP
COWGIRL YURIS

[Ecks]

Can someone link the hidden page? I have no computer atm and my iPod doesn't like flash.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Can someone link the hidden page? I have no computer atm and my iPod doesn't like flash.

The hidden page is a flash.

[Arcanum]

Can someone link the hidden page? I have no computer atm and my iPod doesn't like flash.

http://ib.skaia.net/image/39655.png

[Ecks]

oh okay cool, I watched Frigglish: fast forward to Jaspersprite on the youtubes but can't find the pony bit anywhere.

[POS Industries]

oh okay cool, I watched Frigglish: fast forward to Jaspersprite on the youtubes but can't find the pony bit anywhere.
Yootoobz version. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RykAPvTLpPM)

[Revising Ocelot]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m00ui9Rfua1r5ubkfo1_1280.gif?AWSAccessKeyId =AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1330388101&Signature=6Rlq4AoSoZ5NnO4QAkaQcnSaI6I%3D


I don't get it.

Apparently the Rufio actor from Hook reads HS, but I have no idea where people are pulling this info from.

[Intern Nin]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m00ui9Rfua1r5ubkfo1_1280.gif?AWSAccessKeyId =AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1330388101&Signature=6Rlq4AoSoZ5NnO4QAkaQcnSaI6I%3D


I don't get it.

Apparently the Rufio actor from Hook reads HS, but I have no idea where people are pulling this info from.

From here (http://rufiozuko.tumblr.com/) mostly.

[Revising Ocelot]

Goddamnit, fanbase. Goddamnit.

EDIT: Also, update with distinct lack of Rufio.

[Aldurin]

Damn, Roxy let the lab really get out of control.

[Flarecobra]

I'm disappointed in this one.

[Locke cole]

The heck are all these carapeople doing on Earth at this time?

[stefan]

The heck are all these carapeople doing on Earth at this time?

they came in with the lusii.

the sad part is that I'm only half joking.

[Specterbane]

This doesn't bode well for Dirk's rebellion.

[Revising Ocelot]

The heck are all these carapeople doing on Earth at this time?

I'm thinking that just because the old Black Queen got usurped doesn't mean she's dead. Brought an entourage, perhaps?

Although yeah they normally arrive after the meteors are done.




Edit: YOU'RE DOING IT MAN

[Art of Hilt]

Oh god this update OH GOD OH SHIT OH GOD OH SHIT

[Arcanum]

The more this progresses the more I have a feeling that none of the kids are going to actually enter the session through the traditional method of using the pre-punched card and beating their cruxite item trials.

[Bard The 5th LW]

ooooooooooh nnnooooooooooooo Roxy's going to get bisected Eridan style

[Flarecobra]

Goddamnit G-cat.

More like Dick cat.

[Ryong]

ooooooooooh nnnooooooooooooo Roxy's going to get bisected Eridan style

Naw the window's already off and she didn't reach it. She's just alone in the void.

...Horrorterrors time, maybe?

[Loyal]

ooooooooooh nnnooooooooooooo Roxy's going to get bisected Eridan style

Um... no?

She's between two windows, not currently inside of one. More than likely she's just stuck in some capacity, at least until Dirk plugs the window back in.

There is the matter of what happens when she "lands", or more precisely, what she will land on, and if she will land at all.

[stefan]

it occurs to me that if Dirk plugs the window in and his place gets pulled into the session but the lab doesn't, the kids will have a path to freely move between earth and the session.

that's almost certainly going to be significant somehow.

[Locke cole]

guess (http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000432) what's (http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000433) next? (http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000434)

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

it occurs to me that if Dirk plugs the window in and his place gets pulled into the session but the lab doesn't, the kids will have a path to freely move between earth and the session.

that's almost certainly going to be significant somehow.

I was going to suggest that this would be moot since the planet would be going kapoot soon enough but the presence of Dersites suggests the Exiles already arrived, so the reckoning should be over... right?

[Arcanum]

Or they got to Earth without using meteors.

[Bard The 5th LW]

LittleCondesce is that you?

[Locke cole]

It could be. Feferi didn't have those eyebrow piercings.

Or single-toned horns, for that matter.

But that raises the question of why would the Condesce be dead at that age.

Also, note how her hair trails down in the same way as the Witch hood. Not sure what that means other than "Feferi was the Witch of Life, so this is symbolic", but I wanted you to note that anyway.

Finally, that darkening of the panel was very reminiscent of Problem Sleuth, for obvious reasons.

[Art of Hilt]

What the fuck is this
What the fuck is this

Or single-toned horns, for that matter.


Literal horn colors don't matter, the way they're colored depends entirely on how much effort Hussie feels like putting into the panel. Kind of like which direction Aradia's horns go in.

[Locke cole]

OK, so it could be a dead Alpha Condesce.

Or a dead young murderous Alpha Feferi.

Or Feferi got some eyebrow piercings and let her hair grow out.

[Loyal]

I really can't see this update as anything other than "You gon' get stabbed".

[Fifthfiend]

I was just saying to myself MSPA needed to open up its cast a bit with some new characters we haven't seen before.

[Flarecobra]

What the fuck is this
What the fuck is this
.

The lovewriggler of Terezi and Fefrei obviously.

[Revising Ocelot]

Requesting thread namechange to COUNT SOM-E WOOLB-EASTS BITC)(.


Also, delicious callbacks (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003192). So Ms. Prescratch!Condesce probably isn't trying to kill Roxy. For now.



Edit: YOU ARE MAKING THIS HAPPEN

[Ryong]

Gonna go with Alpha Condesce.

...So the batterwitch is Feferi I guess.

[Revising Ocelot]

...So the batterwitch is Feferi I guess.

Not getting your logic. The Batterwitch is the Condesce, one and the same, but she's a Post-Trollscratch Ancestor. This new troll is assumed to be the Pre-Trollscratch version of the Condesce, because of the whole Guardian/Ancestor swap mechanic that happens during a Scratch. Same applies for "NerdMindfang".

If you've forgotten, there's a part in the Doc Scratch segment where he explains how all the Ancestors we know are Scratched versions of another bunch of trolls, which we're presumably being introduced to right now; although they're all supposed to have been completely wiped from existence.

[Ryong]

Not getting your logic. The Batterwitch is the Condesce, one and the same, but she's a Post-Trollscratch Ancestor. This new troll is assumed to be the Pre-Trollscratch version of the Condesce, because of the whole Guardian/Ancestor swap mechanic that happens during a Scratch. Same applies for "NerdMindfang".

If you've forgotten, there's a part in the Doc Scratch segment where he explains how all the Ancestors we know are Scratched versions of another bunch of trolls, which we're presumably being introduced to right now; although they're all supposed to have been completely wiped from existence.

I'm now going to try and remember when'd the Condesce get there because I swear I forgot.

[Ecks]

Lord English Time Travel Shenanigans

[POS Industries]

Hey look it's alpha-Sufferer.

[Geminex]

IMPENETRABLY ASININE RAINBOW FREEFALLS OF FRIVOLOuS BANTER.
I'm aware the thread just got a name change, but this just seems impossibly fitting, so... please?

[Revising Ocelot]

I'm aware the thread just got a name change, but this just seems impossibly fitting, so... please?

WALLS AND WALLS. OF CANDY ASSED TOOTY FRuITY FuCKING SHIT would work better.

[Solid Snake]

Can't wait until Andrew unleashes Hivebent 2.0 upon us in the form of detailed backstory for all twelve of these new immensely important characters

[Revising Ocelot]

Can't wait until Andrew unleashes Hivebent 2.0 upon us in the form of detailed backstory for all twelve of these new immensely important characters

Hey, 14 characters. And I would have thought you'd sympathise so much with uu!

[Arcanum]

Crazy theory #9234Xq7Z:

uranianUmbra and undyingUmbrage are actually the same troll, just with a split personality. If UU is a parallel to Calmasis from Rose's Complacency of the Learned, then uranianUmbra would be Calmasis before (s)he went apeshit and murdered the Complacency, and undyingUmbrage would be the murdering psychotic Calmasis.

Also, if UU is the pre-scratch ancestor of Karkat, then the split personality is also reflected in the Sufferer; i.e. how he was kind and trying to unify the trolls and then ended up unleashing the Vast Expletive.

As for undyingUmbrage saying he would go over to Prospit and murder uranianUmbra in her sleep, suggesting that the two UUs are different trolls I suggest the following: Due to the schism between personalities, UU has two dreamselves (like sollux) except the Prospit dreamself is entirely uranianUmbra, while the Derse dreamself is entirely undyingUmbrage. So when uranian is awake on Prospit, undying has control of the main body. And then when undying is awake on Derse, uranian has control of the main body. I'm not 100% sure, but I think last we heard from uranian she said she was going to take a nap and if that's the case then it would help support this theory as well.

Any rebuttals?

[Locke cole]

Apparently they're on different planets, though, so this theory could be wrecked by one of them saying stuff about their planet that the other one couldn't know, and then the other one doing the opposite.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Apparently they're on different planets, though, so this theory could be wrecked by one of them saying stuff about their planet that the other one couldn't know, and then the other one doing the opposite.

If they're a bifurcated session like the trolls, maybe they both have different halves of the same planet.


All 12 other planets form a circle around the battlefield like in a normal session, but UU and uu are on half of a planet each that just happen to attach to form a single planet, which is positioned 'above' Skaia relative to the ring.

[Revising Ocelot]

I think if we see another split personality in Homestuck, it's going to be for a pre-Scratch version of the Grand Highblood. We've seen UU's horns at least, and they're not like any known troll but match her Ophiuchus snake symbol.

That 'tumut' emote probably means undyingUmbrage has t-shaped horns, which together look like a U with a wriggle in the middle like uu's symbol.

[Locke cole]

Oh.

I thought that 'tumut' was just a weird word I didn't understand.

[Arcanum]

Or, if the Us are the eyes, and the M is the mouth, then the Ts could be him flipping Dirk the double bird.

[POS Industries]

Or, if the Us are the eyes, and the M is the mouth, then the Ts could be him flipping Dirk the double bird.
Yeah, that's what it looked more like to me (after I realized it was an emoticon).

[Arcanum]

And then Dirk's Denizen was revealed.

Also, UU and uu are going to be in their own session? And now I'm back to not even having a fucking guess as to what might happen. Which is good because for a few moments I was worried I wasn't reading Homestuck.

e- Well okay that's a lie, I do have some guesses, but I'm back to my usual Homestuck mentality of "well let's just see where the fuck this is going before I spout more nonsense in the thread."

[Locke cole]

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about Yaldabaoth:

In the Ophite and Sethian systems, which have many affinities with that last mentioned, the making of the world is ascribed to a company of seven archons, whose names are given, but their chief, “Yaldabaoth” (also known as "Yaltabaoth" or "Ialdabaoth") comes into still greater prominence.

In the Apocryphon of John circa 120-180 AD, the Demiurge arrogantly declares that he has made the world by himself:

Now the archon (ruler) who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas (“fool”), and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, "I am God and there is no other God beside me," for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come.[23]

He is Demiurge and maker of man, but as a ray of light from above enters the body of man and gives him a soul, Yaldabaoth is filled with envy; he tries to limit man's knowledge by forbidding him the fruit of knowledge in paradise. The Demiurge, fearing lest Jesus, whom he had intended as his Messiah, should spread the knowledge of the Supreme God, had him crucified by the Romans. At the consummation of all things all light will return to the Pleroma. But Yaldabaoth, the Demiurge, with the material world, will be cast into the lower depths.

To put it into Dirk's words, Yaldapaoth rules over souls in an arrogant manner.

Or, he's jealous of people having souls, and is really arrogant about it.

It's interesting.

[Ecks]

Don't most Denizens have some kind of interesting mythos relationship to their respective hero's title and aspect anyway? I thought that was the case for space players and Echidna.

[Locke cole]

Yeah.

I was just looking for what it was in this case. I think that's it.

[Art of Hilt]

Also, the Denizen relates to Dirk himself in a way:

The word "demiurge" is an English word from a Latinized form of the Greek ??????????, d?miourgos, literally "public worker", and which was originally a common noun meaning "craftsman" or "artisan", but gradually it came to mean "producer" and eventually "creator".

The philosophical usage and the proper noun derive from Plato's Timaeus, written circa 360 BC, in which the demiurge is presented as the creator of the universe.

Timaeus describes the Demiurge as unreservedly benevolent, and hence desirous of a world as good as possible. The world remains allegedly imperfect, however, because the Demiurge created the world out of a chaotic, indeterminate non-being.

But my favorite part is how it's not totally unrelated to Nepeta.

Yaldabaoth is frequently called "the Lion-faced", leontoeides, with the body of a serpent.

EPIC
CAT
FIGHT

[Loyal]

I just realized. uu is what every bad Homestuck fancontent creator would like to believe Karkat is like.

I can't wait to see what happens when they start writing stuff for him.

e: literally every second sentence will consist entirely of fucks, shits, and a death threat.

[Locke cole]

So, UU is a bad fanfic writer, and uu is a bad fanfic?

Whoa.

[Ecks]

I assume we're using capitals for uranianUmbra and lowercase for undyingUmbrage? Any particular reason for this or did it just crop up and everyone's going with it?

[Art of Hilt]

The reason is because that's how it's presented in the comic. undyingUmbrage is the only chumhandle in the comic where in the chatlogs his initials are not capitalized, so it's a clear distinction. Plus, it is reflected in their typing quirks.

[Ecks]

Derp, I wasn't paying attention to the initials during the logs, was too busy reading.

[Ecks]

Or, if the Us are the eyes, and the M is the mouth, then the Ts could be him flipping Dirk the double bird.

Confirmed as of tonight's pages.

[IHateMakingNames]

So we've got allusions to uu being Dave-like. Time for a new round of speculating.

[Dracorion]

Obviously he's Karkat and Dave's lovechild.

I mean come on.

[Locke cole]

Updort.

I guess being a Void player just means awesome jumps, regardless of upbringing.

[Ryong]

Updort.

I guess being a Void player just means awesome jumps, regardless of upbringing.

Cripes, yeah, I was half expecting the captions to flip between "Nice Abscond!" and "STRONG JUMP!" or some such.

[Revising Ocelot]

I just realized. uu is what every bad Homestuck fancontent creator would like to believe Karkat is like.

I can't wait to see what happens when they start writing stuff for him.

e: literally every second sentence will consist entirely of fucks, shits, and a death threat.

Leading on from this, I'm pretty sure Jade has said "Fuckass" more times than Karkat.

[Art of Hilt]

Updates.

http://i.imgur.com/UwWKp.gif

[Loyal]

Found a thing.
http://i.imgur.com/KlRn8.png

[Locke cole]

I think Jade would probably have a Lucario somewhere on her team, actually.

[POS Industries]

Looking pretty fucked against electric types there, Eridan and Feferi.

[Locke cole]

And of course Vriska has a Garchomp. Might as well give her an Excadrill and Scizor, to complete the little theme there.

[IHateMakingNames]

Severe lack of Rapidash in Equius' line up.

[Flarecobra]

Name me a water trainer that isn't.
+

[Loyal]

Severe lack of Rapidash in Equius' line up.

He's got Miltank though. Think on it for a moment.

Or perhaps better, don't.

[Locke cole]

He does need a Rapidash, though. I would expect Equius to have a solid number of hoofbeasts. Perhaps chuck Tyranitar. His Dark typing simply cannot stand up to the rest of the Strong team's Fighting type.

Why does Gamzee have a Tangrowth anyway?

Actually, you know what? Gamzee should be the one with a Darmanitan. Think about it. When its health is low, in an abnormal state, you might say, it goes into an extremely calm, mellow, Zen mode. But when its health is high, when it's normal, it's a fiery ragemachine.

[Ryong]

I'd say it's because no one has any idea what a Tangrowth actually is.

Also, Nepeta must hate rock.

Or fighting.

I forget.

[Locke cole]

Fighting wrecks Normal and Dark types, so yeah.

And there's a disturbing lack of things that learn Metronome on Gamzee's team.

I mean, yeah he's got Smeargle, who is basically Metronome in an entire pokémon, but still.

[Ecks]

Someone should add scratch kids to this, I'm interested in seeing what mons people would use and what rationale.

[Aldurin]

Someone should add scratch kids to this, I'm interested in seeing what mons people would use and what rationale.

And Scratch himself.

[Aldurin]

Actually, throw the whole Midnight Crew in there while you're at it.

[Locke cole]

Not sure what else Scratch would have, but he'd certainly have a Woobuffet.

Woobuffet isn't a fighter, per se. He allows enemies to kill themselves by attacking, just as Scratch professes to be a weapon, not an assassin.

Also, "omniscience" would certainly help in predicting whether to use Counter or Mirror Coat or Destiny Bond.

[Ecks]

So hey, I guess we're finally gonna get Jane in the session now, right? Or are we gonna have another hundred pages worth of useless-yet-useful filler?

[Token]

Time manipulation like that makes me wonder precisely what’s going on with the Handmaiden.

Could this be a universe where the trolls actually succeeded in their session, and do in fact, rule like gods? It would explain all the Alternian shit going on.

[Art of Hilt]

This flash. Oh my god.

Oh. My. God.

Dirk and Roxy are FROM THE FUTURE, AFTER THE CONDESCE HAS SUCCEEDED IN TURNING EARTH INTO HER PERSONAL WATERWORLD

11/11/11 IS BETTY CROCKER'S "REBRANDING" IE THE DATE OF HER ALIEN INVASION

[Ecks]

So there's that theory about Dirk and Roxy living in a different time period proven. Also Jane did not prototype the sprite, per First Guardian intervention, yet she still entered the session without doing anything to an entry item. This session's already off the fucking rails and it's just started.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So there's that theory about Dirk and Roxy living in a different time period proven. Also Jane did not prototype the sprite, per First Guardian intervention, yet she still entered the session without doing anything to an entry item. This session's already off the fucking rails and it's just started.

It's not off the rails, it's following the crazy fuckery that is paradox space rails perfectly.

Prototyping is a requirement for success if you need Skaia to advance.

[IHateMakingNames]

At the very end of the flash, is there a flash of Teen NotQuiteFeferi?

Edit - I answered my own question. Yes.

[Locke cole]

The hell? So, Dirk and Roxy are in the future? And their parents aren't dead in Jane's time period, I guess, which is why Jane didn't believe Roxy and... The hell is going on?

[Arcanum]

The hell? So, Dirk and Roxy are in the future? And their parents aren't dead in Jane's time period, I guess, which is why Jane didn't believe Roxy and... The hell is going on?

Just like how in the Beta session Nana and Grandpa Harley were sent further into the past than Mom and Bro, Jane and Jake were sent further into the past than Roxy and Dirk.

Also it looks like the reckoning won't be happening in their session.

---

Ok epiphany/crazy idea time that just came to me while I was writing this post.

UU is from way in the future of THIS universe (well the Alpha kids universe). She has read about the exploits of the kids, and it all seems to be in a fairly positive light. Also, if we are to believe Doc Scratch and the story of the Sufferer, the troll ancestors (prescratch) lived in a world free of blood hierarchy.

Yet in the Alpha Universe it looks like the Condesce is rebuilding the troll empire, with plans to re-establish the blood hierarchy. Yet if the Condesce wins then there is no way that the stories about the Alpha kids would be heroic tales (unless UU is reading Prospitian literature from the Alpha kids session, but that seems unlikely). So it's safe to conclude the Alpha kids (with the help of the Beta kids) beat the Condesce, freeing trollified Earth from the blood hierarchy.

But then we have the question of how do the trolls repopulate? If there was a Mother Grub on Jake's deathmurder Island (I don't remember) then the Condesce had her repopulate the trolls. OTHERWISE, we already kn the matriorb hole pattern can be decoded from her worn down hat. If that second option is how they repopulate the trolls (either on Earth or another suitable planet) then those trolls would be free of the blood hierarchy.

IN OTHER WORDS: the post-scratch Kids universe is the same universe as the pre-scratch Troll universe. It's a Mobius Double Fucking Reacharound.

/crazy rant

(note: I know there are so many holes in this ridiculous theory, and I don't entirely believe this is what's really happening, but I'm putting it down in writing so that on the off chance that it's right, I can say I called it)

[Revising Ocelot]

There'll be a mini-reckoning for the frog temple and GCat and maybe the kids, but not much else I imagine. You don't need many meteors to take out a 3x3 chessboard Battlefield.

Taking bets on HIC starting her world flooding routine as Jake enters. That volcano's definitely not lit up in the future, but it was erupting in that one image from the EOA6I1.


Bloody acronyms.

[Arcanum]

But if the battlefield stays a 3x3 chessboard then there is no way for the Black King to win, therefore no way for him to start the reckoning. Also, the Reckoning hurls ALL the meteors in the Veil at Skaia until either A) the Reckoning is stopped, or B) the Veil runs out of meteors. So either the Reckoning was very short lived (entirely possible considering the Kings aren't going to be prototyped), or it never happens (more likely given the unwinnable scenario of the 3x3 chessboard as well as the Condesce's desire to not have her new planet destroyed).

Also there's no signs of meteor damage.

Also, there was no meteor on its way to hit Jane. It was just the Condesce's ship. So it's entirely possible that the other cruxtruders will count down to similar "you're going to die if you don't get into the session before time runs out" events, and not strictly meteors (meteors are just the common standard of the game when the session isn't going apeshit).

[Revising Ocelot]

Jack's "chilling" on Prospit in the presence of a scepter, and he loves his Reckonings.

The neighbourhoods of the Beta Kids didn't look particularly devastated around their times on Earth, and they had established the whole 'arrival via meteor' thing. But yeah, there was definitely no meteor heading towards Jane, hence my mini-Reckoning comment. There could just be very few meteors floating about the Veil in this session. It'd be entirely appropriate considering the session had already anticipated the lack of any prototypings with zero towers on Derse & Prospit.

[Arcanum]

Did the Alpha kids confirm their arrival by meteors? I'm always hazy on details of recent (like last 200-400) pages.

[Revising Ocelot]

Nope. Hence 'maybe the kids'.

Well, Dirk's aware of his lessthanstrictlybiological origins in one page or another, but there's nothing else.

[Arcanum]

Yeah so once again inclined to believe a reckoning never happens. Like, a reckoning is standard fare for a standard session. Yet nothing about this session is standard.

[BitVyper]

I notice there's stilla chessboard involved.

[Ecks]

If everything goes the way it's looking to then I suppose that book ALL the way back in [S] Seer: Descend about adding Orbs to the queen's ring was a red herring after all.

[Solid Snake]

...Yet again I don't understand anything that's going on.
Maybe that's for the best.

[Locke cole]

Waaaaait just a damn second. Dirk got the Dersite newspaper about Dream Jane's execution by Jack.

So, what, is his dreamself in the past while his realself is in the future?

Man, that would make it even more difficult to keep up with both frames of consciousness.

[Solid Snake]

Isn't the session with Prospit and Derse like, independent of the timeline of Earth?

So once all four characters theoretically enter the session they'd all be like, on the same timeline or something?

[Flarecobra]

Mr. Shit has just met Ms. Fan.

[Ecks]

Waaaaait just a damn second. Dirk got the Dersite newspaper about Dream Jane's execution by Jack.

So, what, is his dreamself in the past while his realself is in the future?

Man, that would make it even more difficult to keep up with both frames of consciousness.

See below.
Isn't the session with Prospit and Derse like, independent of the timeline of Earth?

So once all four characters theoretically enter the session they'd all be like, on the same timeline or something?

More or less, yes. Pretty sure the Incipisphere and everything in it operates in its own time frame.

[BitVyper]

So I'm thinking the explody light in the sky is a result of the Condesce doing something to make our sun like Alternia's. Explains why everything is under water in the future.

Edit: As far as how the reckoning will start with no prototypings; the prototypings aren't really necessary in this case, since the Condesce is breaking the rules. She could just tell Jack or someone to go to the Battlefield. Also note that the White Queen is the one who has the scepter anyway, so it's not even on the Battlefield at this point. White and Black kings may already be dead.

[Aldurin]

Whaaaa-. Act 6 Act 2 was short. I expected the section to extend into their totally awesome skaia bullshit for a few more months.

EDIT:

The future thing. Some people out there had already followed the trail of crumbs leading to this outcome. Some clues were fairly subtle, like use of term antediluvian, the seagulls, the technology… They got less subtle over time, such as when we met the exile mob. Now the verdict is in. If you suspected as much all along, you were not smoking the bargain crack. I’m pleased to report the crack you were smoking was the choicest of crack that money can buy.

This can only mean good things for us.

[Solid Snake]

More or less, yes. Pretty sure the Incipisphere and everything in it operates in its own time frame.

I'm glad this is true because otherwise Dirk's interest in Jake would be rather creepy.

...I'm assuming of course that Jake is in Jane's timeframe and not in Dirk and Roxy's. I'm not sure whether that was explicitly confirmed, but that would make the most sense.