#1138: "The omnipotent jackass just jacked his own ass!"

[Kurosen]

Red Mage has such a way with words.

[Panthera]

Well now we know what Fighter's views are. And I guess next we get to find out if our theory about Sarda not knowing what happens next works out.

[deimon]

well I guess RM has Jack on sarda...

[Uroogla]

I'm surprised they figured this out about Sarda. Odds are it means nothing and is just to get our hopes up, but...

[El Mullet]

My god, I haven't laughed out loud so much at an 8-Bit in months.

I thank Sarda for "jacking" the plot back to silly and irreverent in addition to ending building serious.

[TDK]

<3 Red Mage.

[facelift]

I love Red Mage's stance in the last panel.

[voodooKobra]

I love Red Mage's stance in the last panel.

I second this. The stance really completes the punchline.

[Bard The 5th LW]

This comic made Red Mage my new favorite character.
Sorry BM, but your 2nd now.

[Gadgeteer]

I had a feeling this would be the direction things went.

Then again, if Sarda is omnipotent, he could just bring Onion Kid back from the past for a few minutes.

[Eldezar]

Is that supposed to be BM breaking the fourth wall to ask his question, or just a regular asking his question to the air and hope somebody/thing answers?

[Raphaël Lafarge]

Ever time Red Mage raises his arms, hilarity ensues. He is so ridiculous with this posture.

[Fenris]

Alternatively, Sarda still knows what they're going to say and do because he's alluded to having that knowledge several times throughout the series.

[Spekkio]

I have to say I'm glad to see the tenuous relationship of the LWs restored, even if it's only for a short time. It was nice to see the old dynamic in play again.

As I've said before, though, I seriously doubt the long-standing LW dynamic will survive the comic. If it did, there would be too much room for people to beg Brian to make more 8BT.

[SaintRCat]

Y'know, ever since I started reading the forum topics for these Light Warrriors vs. Sarda thing, I can't help but wonder how much of his material is jacked from the comments inside the topics.

[meo]

Y'know, ever since I started reading the forum topics for these Light Warrriors vs. Sarda thing, I can't help but wonder how much of his material is jacked from the comments inside the topics.

I came here to post this exactly. It seems every theory put forth in the topics are being questioned within the comics themselves by the characters, every potential loophole being shot down in the strip itself.

[GrandMasterPlanetEater]

Now that the time circle's been completed, what will Sarda do?

Heh. You know, in theory he could in theory magically convert the Light Warriors to into a game cartridge, plug it into a NES and start their sufferous quest all over again from the start. He'd then get to watch a version of himself on the screen torturing the Light Warriors, through an infinite regression of video game universes.

Of course he could never shut off the NES, because he couldn't know if he's the top layer. If he's not, the Sarda above him will wipe reality out when he does the same thing. If there is no top layer, this would be a nifty loophole Sarda could use to ensure that he never suffered in the first place.

[Lorpius Prime]

I suspect that the flaw in Red Mage's plan comes from the fact that even though Sarda doesn't have foreknowledge of what will happen, he can still turn the Light Warriors inside out, remove all the bones from their bodies, turn their blood plasma into sulfuric acid, and then unmake them from existence.

[Gadgeteer]

I came here to post this exactly. It seems every theory put forth in the topics are being questioned within the comics themselves by the characters, every potential loophole being shot down in the strip itself.

You know Brian, he likes his 'joke on the reader' thing.

[GARUD]

One thing that would bother me personally is that if Sarda wins here, then why is there only 2 Sarda's in existence? Wouldn't the other future Sardas exist also? I mean, the (n) Sarda and the (n+1) Sarda must exist to keep the time loop going, but where are the other ones?

[Krylo]

I'd like to point out that vis a vis Brian's view of time travel, it doesn't actually matter if Sarda knows what's going to happen, as that it will happen anyway. See the whole sending the light warriors to places where they kill all of his families when they kill them because that is how things went and he couldn't change it thing. Even if OK was still there, they'd have roughly the same chances, because if they killed him and he saw it they would still kill him and he would know it but he would still do it because it is how things happened and he can't change that.

Sooo... it's really pretty pointless.

Edit: Garud, if he doesn't die here then he would continue to exist into the future alongside OK, until OK went into the past, at which point there would be exactly one Sarda in the future. There would be no extra Sardas.

[Venath]

I suspect that the flaw in Red Mage's plan comes from the fact that even though Sarda doesn't have foreknowledge of what will happen, he can still turn the Light Warriors inside out, remove all the bones from their bodies, turn their blood plasma into sulfuric acid, and then unmake them from existence.

RM's hilarious moment aside, I have to agree with this. They're certainly better off than they were when Sarda knew their every move, but that doesn't mean they actually have a chance considering that Sarda is still probably countless leagues ahead of them. It's like fighting a tank with a rock instead of your bare hands. You're probably screwed either way.

...Then again, their biggest enemies just about always outclass them completely, and they still ended up being the ones left standing when it was all said and done.

[tacticslion]

One thing that would bother me personally is that if Sarda wins here, then why is there only 2 Sarda's in existence? Wouldn't the other future Sardas exist also? I mean, the (n) Sarda and the (n+1) Sarda must exist to keep the time loop going, but where are the other ones?

No, actually, because it's a stable time loop, there's only two for a limited amount of time before the 'first' one (the kid) goes back and becomes the 'second' one (the adult). The only way there'd be n+1 Sardas exist is if there were multiple temporal-based dimensions that the Sarda's kept stepping over to (kind of a time-based spiral). Otherwise, things just keep truckin' like normal time with a slight imbalance in matter until one returns to the beginning of time.

Also, am I the only one that noticed that Sarda might be indicating his own doom? "So this is what it's like to be bored to death." That might simply be him mocking the Light Warriors, but he might be fully aware of his impending demise, and attempting to taunt them to get on with it. Or, he's simply mocking the Light Warriors. Because, y'know, he can.

Edit: NINJA'D BY THE NAMELESS ONE (by which I mean Krylo!)

[GrandMasterPlanetEater]

One thing that would bother me personally is that if Sarda wins here, then why is there only 2 Sarda's in existence? Wouldn't the other future Sardas exist also? I mean, the (n) Sarda and the (n+1) Sarda must exist to keep the time loop going, but where are the other ones?

As soon as young Sarda grows up, learns advanced magic and teleports to the past, there will be only one Sarda, elder Sarda. If elder Sarda dies before then, it'll just be his elder corpse. It is the young Sarda who teleports himself back, not the elder. (Mind you, elder Sarda COULD do it if he's still alive by then. Who sends young Sarda back doesn't affect the time loop.)

Check the previous few comic discussion threads if you're still confused on how this stable time loop works.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I suspect that the flaw in Red Mage's plan comes from the fact that even though Sarda doesn't have foreknowledge of what will happen, he can still turn the Light Warriors inside out, remove all the bones from their bodies, turn their blood plasma into sulfuric acid, and then unmake them from existence.

Sarda can't do that.
I mean as far as we know Sarda has never uncreated anyone
the fact that they are there having the battle proves that Sarda never uncreates them

[Lorpius Prime]

Sarda can't do that.
I mean as far as we know Sarda has never uncreated anyone
the fact that they are there having the battle proves that Sarda never uncreates them

I would not be surprised to come back here on Thursday to find the 8BT archives gone, along with all evidence that the comic itself ever existed. Brian will be asking us what the hell we're talking about. And, somewhere in the recessed corners of our minds, we'll hear the sound of an omnipotent jackass laughing at us, forever.

[tacticslion]

Sarda can't do that.
I mean as far as we know Sarda has never uncreated anyone
the fact that they are there having the battle proves that Sarda never uncreates them

Yeah, your probably right (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/03/29/episode-972-department-of-un-history-item-d-36/).

I would not be surprised to come back here on Thursday to find the 8BT archives gone, along with all evidence that the comic itself ever existed. Brian will be asking us what the hell we're talking about. And, somewhere in the recessed corners of our minds, we'll hear the sound of an omnipotent jackass laughing at us, forever.

That would be so epic-awesome and fail SIMULTANEOUSLY.

[katiuska]

I'd like to point out that vis a vis Brian's view of time travel, it doesn't actually matter if Sarda knows what's going to happen, as that it will happen anyway. See the whole sending the light warriors to places where they kill all of his families when they kill them because that is how things went and he couldn't change it thing. Even if OK was still there, they'd have roughly the same chances, because if they killed him and he saw it they would still kill him and he would know it but he would still do it because it is how things happened and he can't change that.

Sooo... it's really pretty pointless.

This is totally true, though Sarda talks as if he believes his plot to kill them will succeed. It'd be one thing if OK had stayed to see it, but now, even though things will happen the way they were always going to happen, Sarda doesn't necessarily know what that way is. So, it doesn't change anything for the characters themselves, but it does change the implications for the reader at this point--we'd know they'd die if Sarda saw it, but he didn't, so as far as we're concerned it's merely the most probable outcome until it actually happens.

[Molotovich]

I suspect that the flaw in Red Mage's plan comes from the fact that even though Sarda doesn't have foreknowledge of what will happen, he can still turn the Light Warriors inside out, remove all the bones from their bodies, turn their blood plasma into sulfuric acid, and then unmake them from existence.

Oh, you are talking about the unexistant character... right?

And Brian, thank you for wrapping all the insane theories that have been going on the last three comics :) I am really closer to understand Knight now

[Fifthfiend]

This is the this-comickest comic this comic has ever comicked.

...I like how everyone shrugs off the climactic battle to the death where they all actually for-real died because it's not actually any different than anything that's gone on for the last thousand comics now.

I'd like to point out that vis a vis Brian's view of time travel, it doesn't actually matter if Sarda knows what's going to happen, as that it will happen anyway. See the whole sending the light warriors to places where they kill all of his families when they kill them because that is how things went and he couldn't change it thing. Even if OK was still there, they'd have roughly the same chances, because if they killed him and he saw it they would still kill him and he would know it but he would still do it because it is how things happened and he can't change that.

Sooo... it's really pretty pointless.

Edit: Garud, if he doesn't die here then he would continue to exist into the future alongside OK, until OK went into the past, at which point there would be exactly one Sarda in the future. There would be no extra Sardas.

OK's presence is still what allowed Sarda to act on foreknowledge of time, even though those actions were ultimately predetermined by causality.

...I kind of feel like Sarda's going for the "I sent away my guarantor of prescience so I could show what a badass I am by beating you jerks without it" that worked out so well for Thanos all the million different times he got ahold of the Infinity Gauntlet and then someone else ganked it.

[GrandMasterPlanetEater]

The great thing about the unmake-bard comic being discussed is that the episode before that used the words "Sarda's going to JACKASS us away any second."

OK's presence is still what allowed Sarda to act on foreknowledge of time, even though those actions were ultimately predetermined by causality.

In six directions, no less! ;)

[Sephiel]

Mind control... Yeah, I believe BM.

[Gamer8585]

Apparently BM got his wish and someone else did say what RM was going to. However that someone was Debora. The universe still hates BM, just the way Sarda wants it.

[Krylo]

OK's presence is still what allowed Sarda to act on foreknowledge of time, even though those actions were ultimately predetermined by causality.

But if that ACTUALLY mattered, he wouldn't have sent the light warriors off to kill his many parents. Sarda's foreknowledge of time is entirely impotent.

[Crav]

There's only one possible way they can win, and that's if Fighter breaks Sarda's mind again long enough for them to take advantage of it.

[voodooKobra]

So, who's up for a game of drownball?

[PimpledTaintMan]

Man it's like the comic has just become a refutation for any argument anyone makes to show that Sarda is not in complete control of the situation.

Sarda's explanation as to why RM is wrong coming on Thursday of course.

[AngelFoodBB]

So what would have happened if Sarda killed them before they began their adventure?

[Fenris]

So what would have happened if Sarda killed them before they began their adventure?

8-Bit Theatre would be about 900 comics shorter.

[POS Industries]

...I like how everyone shrugs off the climactic battle to the death where they all actually for-real died because it's not actually any different than anything that's gone on for the last thousand comics now.
It's worth noting that Sarda may have grown up only assuming that his future self kills the Light Warriors, seeing as he was teleported away forever after a very convincing display of his future self's absolute assurance and apparent ability to eliminate them. It's the end of the Light Warrior's adventure one way or the other, and thus entirely possible Sarda never encountered any of them again before traveling to the dawn of time, and came to what seemed like the most logical conclusion.

It would hardly be the first time he's been mistaken.

[The Wizard Who Did It]

So what would have happened if Sarda killed them before they began their adventure?
That wouldn't happen, because everything is predetermined.:D
It would hardly be the first time he's been mistaken.
That makes perfect sense. It's not like they'd be considered heroes of the world or anything, they're just some random psychotic murderers. Even if they do beat Sarda and beat Chaos, King Steve (and all the other rulers) will just say they did it and give nothing to the LWs.

[Mirai Gen]

<3 Red Mage.
.

[Sumiyoshi]

Yeah, I remember when I kept going on about how the main characters' relationships wouldn't ever be able to go back to normal after Black Mage sporked most of their party.

... ... ... yeah.

[Athas]

Okay seems we have two conflicting reasons why sarda knows everything.

1 he exists in six directions in time at once.
2 He remembers much of what was said from when he was Onion Kid.

But guys wasn't there only one sarda present most of the time he said he was fed up with a conversation? So he couldn't "remember" them.

Unless the six directions in time means at that point of time there are six Sarda's present. Maybe one (younger) one was present but hidden from view when sarda was talking.

Unless Sarda told his younger self about the conversations.

I mean he has been "supprised" hasn't he? He asked if Black Mage was drooling blood. I mean if he knows the answer why ask the question?


Oh and one last thing about predestined fate. It doesn't mean there isn't free will. Just that what you freely choose will be what you were always going to freely choose. Basically under the same exact circumstances with the same knowledge and fore knowledge you will choose the to do the same thing.

It doesn't absolve you from the consequences of your actions either as your choices still have consequences.

Its not that "Oh it doesnt' matter what I do there will be the same outcome." More that if I make a bad choice here I will always make the same choice in the same circumstances. (Exact In this world to every subatomic particle every photon of energy being the same which are pretty exact circumstances).

Several people believe that the future is predetermined. In tehory (for those people) if you had a big enough computer you could calculate everything that would happen.

Unfortunatly such a computer would have to be larger then everything so it couldn't be built and would probably only calculate the future after it happened. (For an inital set of input it would reach the correct output but the output would only happen after it was mute)

[Meister]

1 he exists in six directions in time at once.
2 He remembers much of what was said from when he was Onion Kid.
Can't it be both?

[Unprodigy]

See? Sarda gave himself character depth and humanity, so now he's vulnerable.

Incidentally, what are you all basing this predestination crap on? Sarda saying so? HAH! The fact that Sarda hasn't been able to break out of it himself yet? DOUBLE HAH! The only time he actually tried was when he went to the beginning of the Universe, but thereafter the aeons spent waiting for his cave calcified his rage over failing into a determination not to try anything that might change things as he knew them to be ever again. Of course things so far have played out how he remembers. That's because he's done everything in his vast power to make sure they do.

He's going to savour destroying the LWs from here, which is why, without the benefit of already knowing how to proceed, will cause him to make grievous errors. The comment about being bored to death (incidentally, did he suddenly forget the aeons in space?) proves this. He'll be hoisted by his own petard, as it were.

And I will dance. And I will laugh. And I will sing.

[Fifthfiend]

Can't it be both?

The non-thanos option I'm gonna roll the dice on is they try to take him by surprise and he goes yeah BTW I'm also just plain-ass omniscient, Li'l Sage being around or no.

It's worth noting that Sarda may have grown up only assuming that his future self kills the Light Warriors, seeing as he was teleported away forever after a very convincing display of his future self's absolute assurance and apparent ability to eliminate them. It's the end of the Light Warrior's adventure one way or the other, and thus entirely possible Sarda never encountered any of them again before traveling to the dawn of time, and came to what seemed like the most logical conclusion.

It would hardly be the first time he's been mistaken.

Well clearly something kills them given that they themselves don't subsequently go on to kill the entire world.

I mean what's the alternative, they just go "Hey let's not kill the entire world"? I mean, come on.

[Grognor]

Well, we know Sarda's going to die now. We also know that Red Mage will be responsible for it, and that the entire victory will be completely by accident.

The only question at this point is "how does it all happen?"

And don't say I could possibly be wrong, because there's no chance of that whatsoever.



Edit: Bonus strip: read only the right-most panels.

[01d55]

Why are people rooting for the Light Warriors?
Honestly it's not like Sarda isn't the least horrible person in that room.

Anyway, Sarda's absolute confidence that nothing bad could possibly happen to him up until this point has been justified by his remembering that nothing bad happened to him, but now we're leaving the field of time in which he can be absolutely certain of everything that's going to happen.

He can still rest on the enormous power-gap for confidence, and likely some kind of news of the outcome reached the mage university (where he's going to spend a lifetime of study becoming the most powerful mage ever). Even if the LWs acquit themselves well, it's certain that whatever happens here, "Black Mage wins and destroys the universe" ain't it. In fact, there's no way that Black Mage walks out of this temple alive and doesn't do something that young Sarda would hear from, and since Sarda figures BM ain't walking out, nothing's happened to young Sarda that contradicts that.

I'm going to say that it's most likely that the LWs all bite it like Sarda says they are, but it's still possible that some combination of Fighter, Thief, and RM make it out alive to lay low for the rest of their lives.

[aleph_zero]

I'm just waiting for White Mage to factor in some how. Dying or not, she did influence the creation of their universe and all. That's gotta be something.

[Doc T]

Next comic: Sarda unceremoniously slaughters the Light Warriors.

Saturday's Comic: Sarda is still unsatisfied and ressurects the Light Warriors to kill them again.

Next Week: Sarda has been killing them over and over and over for some time. The Dark Warriors enter the scene. In the ensuing fight, Light and Dark Warriors vs. Sarda, somehow, Garland of people accidentally deals the killing blow to Sarda.

The resulting XP Garland gains from killing the most powerful being in the universe turns him into Chaos.

It's totally simple, ties in with the game's plot and most definitely will not happen.

[Nexus]

I'm calling it right now. The "Nexus" and evil in Black Mage gets spent/used up killing Sarda and he's left weak and incapable of doing any actual harm to people, causing Fighter to feel sorry for him and follow him around everywhere since that's what best buddies do. Thus, we get to keep our favorite do-gooders/morons alive and Black Mage STILL gets screwed over. Everybody wins. : D

[The Wizard Who Did It]

Oh and one last thing about predestined fate. It doesn't mean there isn't free will. Just that what you freely choose will be what you were always going to freely choose. Basically under the same exact circumstances with the same knowledge and fore knowledge you will choose the to do the same thing.
Okay I guess I'm going to summarize my feelings on this debate once and for all.

If you can define free will so that every decision you make right now is determined and decided since the universe began, I don't know why people care so much about having it. It's the least amount of freedom I can imagine. You can change around the meanings of words all you want, but the fundamentals of ideas are forever constant. And the idea behind fate is that whatever happens happens as it was always going to happen, whether you like it or not.

I personally like feeling I had an ACTUAL choice in the matter. And yes, I believe in free will.

And I guess mentioning the rest of it for completionist's sake...
It doesn't absolve you from the consequences of your actions either as your choices still have consequences.
Of course it doesn't. It's the same as people who believe in free will thinking they can do whatever they want because they can make any choice they want, and people can't hold it against them because they have free will.
Unfortunatly such a computer would have to be larger then everything so it couldn't be built and would probably only calculate the future after it happened. (For an inital set of input it would reach the correct output but the output would only happen after it was mute)
Yes fate isn't pragmatic or useful.
Incidentally, what are you all basing this predestination crap on? Sarda saying so?
Actually no, because that's just as faulty as you're describing it is. Personally, I am basing it on Brian's MANY posts since this discussion started.
Why are people rooting for the Light Warriors?
Honestly it's not like Sarda isn't the least horrible person in that room.
Bias brought about by the perspective of the narrative. Which is actually pretty understandable bias, because it IS the format Brian gave us.

[kh3lgar]

I had a feeling this would be the direction things went.

Then again, if Sarda is omnipotent, he could just bring Onion Kid back from the past for a few minutes.

He doesn't need to since he exists in six directions in time at once (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/04/22/episode-982-forward-backward-spiraled-sideways-looped-and-cross-wise/).
Notice how onion kid isn't there with him at this point.

[Ti-Phil]

Awwww.... Fighter now knows BM is evil... I guess their friendship is now broken beyond repairs.

[justice~!]

I kind of figured Sarda would die almost immediately after sending Onion Kid away as that sort of ironic "buildup with no payoff" that BM referenced earlier. What could be worse than that? Not only does Sarda spend billions of years waiting for revenge that never occurs, but he has condemned his younger self to going through the exact same thing, never knowing that almost immediately after he does so it all goes south.

However, the way this is heading now I have my doubts about that...

[Dracorion]

Oh, Red Mage. :rolleyes:

I would not be surprised to come back here on Thursday to find the 8BT archives gone, along with all evidence that the comic itself ever existed. Brian will be asking us what the hell we're talking about. And, somewhere in the recessed corners of our minds, we'll hear the sound of an omnipotent jackass laughing at us, forever.

You damn fool! Do you realize what you've done? You've given Brian an idea and you know Brian absolutely has to act on every idea that ever pops into his head!

It's why we've had two fake endings over the course of the comic! You've doomed us all, man!

So what would have happened if Sarda killed them before they began their adventure?

The comic would actually be King Steve Theater, wherein King Steve, unable to find the Light Warriors, sets off to rescue his daughter and defeat Chaos. He is joined by a supporting cast of Gary, Sara, Garland, White Mage, the Black Belts, a cameo of Onion Kid, Sarda, the occasional phone call to his wife Jane, King Steve (to be explained), a length of string, Elite Guard Hank, the Messenger, Stevebot, and Rodney (whose identity is finally revealed in episode 502, and made clear in episode 3067).

White Mage serves the purpose of directing King Steve and his group of loyal servants toward the Elemental Orbs. Elite Guard Hank and the Messenger play pivotal roles in the vanquishing of Lich (After Lich kills Gary the Messenger runs by, Hank misses and hits Lich, sending the Orb of Earth flying to be caught by Garland. King Steve makes a kingly proclamation that Lich's soul can't be inside the Orb) and Muffin (Muffin eats the Messenger, and Hank spears her through the brain trying to hit him). Sara, in Evil Princess mode, beats Kary in a sword duel, and Kraken is defeated by King Steve when he rips Kraken apart from the inside out after he ate Steve.

Also, King Steve Theater is about three thousand comics longer than 8BT is right now.

EDIT: Made some minor changes to King Steve Theater, also some things that should be mentioned:

Gary is gay and he and one of the Black Belts are a couple until both BBs die to Kary. Gary also suffers from night terrors, and when Lich kills him, he gets sent to Hell and is subsequently kicked out after spending one night there. Sara realizes that Gary is gay, but nobody else knows until Black Belt dies and Gary spirals into depression. He has a one-night-stand with Garland which allows him to move on. King Steve proclaims every "whurzday" to be Black Belt Day, and since then on the anniversary of Black Belt's death all the characters dress up in BB's palette. Gary's homosexuality is revealed after the Black Belt incident. On October 16th 2011 (the anniversary of Black Belts death), King Steve, while dressed up as Black Belt, manages to successfully create a copy of himself by getting lost on his way back to the group's camp. From the group's camp. Sara is driven to a catatonic state by the Steves, until Gary kills one of them to save the world from their combined horror.

[Si Civa]

Also, King Steve Theater is about three thousand comics longer than 8BT is right now.

This just proves how huge jerk Brian is.
Instead giving us what would be the most funniest sprite comic in the world, known as King Steve Theatre, we are given this 8-bit theatre.

Thank you, Brian. And seriously thank you Brian. Without sarcasm. Well, only little bit!

[Amake]

In seven years when everyone's forgotten everything Brian can restart the comic with the title "Red Mage's adventures with animal husbandry".

That is all.

[russianreversal]

I think Sarda might actually be able to see into the future and see that he somehow loses, and that's why he's not very happy with his revenge plan so far, because he's going to lose anyway.

I mean, nobody that omnipotent should be that depressing.

[waw]

actually, i think it's because he doesn' tknow what's going on at this point... OK isn't around.. he doesn't have knowledge of this event.

At this point, OK continues his training, jumps back in time, gets there moments after White Mage... and bam, everything begins.

This is uncharted territory.

Also, Brian, thanks, this actually clears up why Fighter was willing to fight BM, he understands the difference between Evil and Misguided, is still an idiot too.

Biggest question... why did Sarda want the Orbs?

[Dracorion]

Well, Sarda's already established that he can cause the Light Warriors pain from every distinct particle in their bodies. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/05/30/episode-1134-illustrative/) Considering how easy he can kill them despite how powered up they are, my guess is he wants to use the Orbs to power them up further to make killing them more enjoyable.

[CDRW]

And it all draws to a close.

I wouldn't put it past Brian to have 100+ extra comics of the LW dying and be resurrected again. Or having the updater point the latest comic at an older one and continue from there. So the entire comic would just loop forever and ever.

[tacticslion]

Brian is very clever. Very clever indeed. He's successfully yanked our chain so much, I fully expect him to do it again. That said, I wish to point out something that I just noticed again, though I know it's been commented on many times, and represented in the comic itself more than once. K'air (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/05/29/episode-423-not-so-apt-pupil/). It seems that Sarda doesn't... not any more, anyway. And it seems there is one thing that Black Mage cares about more than White Mage: his evil. For whatever reason, it seems that evil is the most important thing in existance to Black Mage. In some respects, he's similar to Garland that way. So, I'm curious: could the thing that everyone has to give up be Black Mage?

Fighter: his best friend, also the idea that he's the hero
Red Mage: the right to all the XP in existance
Thief: he alone might slip out of it (and is the greatest weak point of this burgeoning theory), but perhaps simply being indebted to a stinking monkey-thing would be sacrifice enough.
Black Mage: himself and his evil

It's probably not going to happen that way, but that's just a thought that's been occuring, so I thought I'd share it. And where are those Dark Warriors (and Real Light Warriors) anyway?

Edit:
ALSO:
Does this (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/06/05/episode-1001-i-cant-believe-someone-was-asshole-enough-to-make-more-than-1000-sprite-comics/) resemble anyone (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/05/25/episode-421-a-wizard-did-it/) else (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/06/14/episode-1005-of-hardships/)* you can think of (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/03/29/episode-972-department-of-un-history-item-d-36/)? I mean, they even have the same color mustaches! *Gasp!* That wasn't Warmech at all! It was the ONION KID!

*I can't find the lousy comic when he first grows his 'stache. Dang it!
Edit: so I added a different one instead

[Primalmoon]

Edit: Bonus strip: read only the right-most panels.
Genius!

[Nuklear Waste]

We've seen the whole "Red Mage says something he doesn't know can be interpreted sexually" before, but man do I love receiving it.

Also, pretty much everything Red Mage has said in the past 15ish comics has been immediately refuted:

"You already did that." Then the tendrils hurt White Mage.
"Maybe she's okay." lol
"Yeah. I do." / "I won't let you destroy the world." NO EPIC BATTLE FOR YOU!
"You are the end boss!" Well, that was partially true.
"But we didn't help!" Sometimes.
"we'll kill the younger you so you never grow up and this never happens!" Nah.
"You could have stopped us!" Nope.
And now this.

[Neni]

I like everything BM said in this comic.

Is it just me, or is Fighter's intelligence steadily growing now, instead of popping up suddenly?
Well, at least he and BM can go back to be "Pals" for now. XD

[krogothwolf]

I like everything BM said in this comic.

Is it just me, or is Fighter's intelligence steadily growing now, instead of popping up suddenly?
Well, at least he and BM can go back to be "Pals" for now. XD

His intelligence grows and fades all the time. And yes its a good day when Fighter and BM are Pals. BM stabing fighter is always fun.

[Masam]

Well actually, this comic kinda explains why Fighter didn't go after blackmage, while he IS an idiot, he always thought that Blackmage was trying to help, just in a firey, lightningy, hodekeny manner. So he wasn't dumb or blind to BM's evil, Fighter just looked at it like BM was trying to do good...only failing horribly.

[Nexus]

You know, Sarda's pretty dumb. The reason why things didn't happen differently is because he just accepted his fate. He clearly had the power to stop it from happening but refused to do so, thinking things to be unchangeable. Actually.....it's kinda suspicious that he didn't realize thi-.....oh my god. Sarda said he was "one" of the most powerful beings in existence. Which can only mean there are OTHERS just as, or more, powerful than he is and there's only one person more of a jackass than Sarda.....Brian....WE SHOULD'VE KNOWN! Curse you and your jackassy powers, Brian. CURSE YOU I SAY! Does your jackassery know no bounds?! I can't believe you were behind all of this. How could you?! >:C

lol I'd laugh immensely if that was actually what was going on. :>

[Bard The 5th LW]

I think that White Mage was the sacrifice to summon Chaos. She seems to be the only thing that BM K'airs about (in a way), and her death will, in an unintended way on Sarda's behalf make BM more powerful.




I really need that crack pipe

[tacticslion]

I think that White Mage was the sacrifice to summon Chaos. She seems to be the only thing that BM K'airs about (in a way), and her death will, in an unintended way on Sarda's behalf make BM more powerful.

I don't think so, but you are quite possibly right. It's just when BM's said he might turn to good for the right woman - he immediately refutes it by saying she'd want to do non-evil things.

I really need that crack pipe

no*

*I D.A.R.E. you!

[So Money]

Oh and one last thing about predestined fate. It doesn't mean there isn't free will. Just that what you freely choose will be what you were always going to freely choose. Basically under the same exact circumstances with the same knowledge and fore knowledge you will choose the to do the same thing.

You may be right in general, but in the case of someone who is aware of his own choices before he makes them (as with Sarda), this argument isn't relevant anymore. Sarda's claim is that even with knowledge of the choices he's going to make, he has no ability to change them to anything else, which is definitely a restriction of his free will.

You can argue that the only reason Sarda isn't struggling is because deep down, he doesn't WANT things to be different, but then you enter a hypothetical world where the only people or things who can travel in time are people or things who are incapable of even WANTING to change anything. Which leads one logically to the conclusion that fate is a force that is specifically guiding history down a particular path, because given these requirements, the attitude of a person determines their ability to time travel.

If you can define free will so that every decision you make right now is determined and decided since the universe began, I don't know why people care so much about having it. It's the least amount of freedom I can imagine. You can change around the meanings of words all you want, but the fundamentals of ideas are forever constant. And the idea behind fate is that whatever happens happens as it was always going to happen, whether you like it or not.

I personally like feeling I had an ACTUAL choice in the matter. And yes, I believe in free will.

You're making a connection between free will and knowledge that doesn't exist, or at least, doesn't need to exist. Say you have two people faced with the decision whether or not to steal twinkies from their local convenience store, and the only difference between these two people is that one of them has a friend who knows them well enough to know whether or not they'll steal twinkies, and the other is friendless. It's ridiculous to claim that the person with the friend has less of a choice in the matter than the other.

The ability to anticipate future events is not a driving force in making them happen.

Although, if Sarda's opinions on this matter are correct, then knowledge of the future can only come to people without the will to change it, which I guess can be defined as a lack of free will in and of itself. If so, then it might be true that in the world of 8BT, knowledge cannot influence the existence of free will, but the existence of free will can influence knowledge.

EDIT: BTW, regarding definitions: say you choose to define free will such that it is impossible to know what decision you would make even if someone time traveled to the future and found out what decision you were going to make and then time traveled back. Why is this a useful definition? The only cases where it even matters are cases where the choice in question is totally random in the first place, because if you have a justification for the decision, you're going to make it the same way no matter how much time travel gets in the way. If you want to make the claim that, barring any justification for a decision that would consistently sway a choice, the choice is random, then how is that any more free than having it be predictable?

There's also a question of just how much of an effect on the universe the act of time travel can have. Introducing new matter into the past may influence random actions to be different than they were the "first" time, Butterfly Effect-style. But in the assumption of a stable time loop, such as we have here, it's obviously assumed that all such randomness has been stabilized as well. So in that case, a "random-dependent" concept of free will would not be any less predictable than any other definition.

Basically, the argument that free will exists defies the argument that a stable time loop can exist; the two are completely and totally mutually exclusive.

[krogothwolf]

I don't think so, but you are quite possibly right. It's just when BM's said he might turn to good for the right woman - he immediately refutes it by saying she'd want to do non-evil things.



no*

*I D.A.R.E. you!

So Brian is doing the whole Women in Refrigerator thing as well?

Demons Against Raping Enemies?

[timemonkey]

You know, Sarda's pretty dumb. The reason why things didn't happen differently is because he just accepted his fate. He clearly had the power to stop it from happening but refused to do so, thinking things to be unchangeable. Actually.....it's kinda suspicious that he didn't realize thi-.....oh my god. Sarda said he was "one" of the most powerful beings in existence. Which can only mean there are OTHERS just as, or more, powerful than he is and there's only one person more of a jackass than Sarda.....Brian....WE SHOULD'VE KNOWN! Curse you and your jackassy powers, Brian. CURSE YOU I SAY! Does your jackassery know no bounds?! I can't believe you were behind all of this. How could you?! >:C

lol I'd laugh immensely if that was actually what was going on. :>

Of course there are beings as or more powerful than Sarda. We've met actual GODs in the comic all of whom would fit that description. Hell, we still haven't gotten around to whatever Bahamut is supposed to be awakened for. Unless he'll be the one to destroy Sarda.


Did anyone else notice that Fighter didn't deny that he, and the others, hate each other this time?

[Nuklear Waste]

Of course there are beings as or more powerful than Sarda. We've met actual GODs in the comic all of whom would fit that description. Hell, we still haven't gotten around to whatever Bahamut is supposed to be awakened for. Unless he'll be the one to destroy Sarda.
I don't think it was ever said that Bahamut would do anything (besides give a class change to the Enlightened Warrior(s)), just that his awakening marks the end times.

[malakite]

I'm glad to see that BM's "evil" was all the result of Sarda's mind control.
Perhaps the other LW's would have noticed sooner if they'd bothered to get to know him better. Stop laughing! Anyway, obviously nothing would hurt BM more than BM saving the universe from evil,therefore BM will save the universe.Also, it will be under circumstances where he clearly had a choice to do otherwise...that way he'll have only himself to blame.

[Masam]

Speaking of BM saving the world, who thinks he'll defeat whoever the end boss is with the dreaded Goblin Punch?

[Eldezar]

So, I've read a lot of stuff about people thinking Brian is reacting to every conversation concerning loopholes about the past 4-5 comics, and debunking them with each new update. However, is it so hard to believe that Brian has thought of all of these beforehand and is only now able to play them out concerning how little space he has for dialogue?

[bluestarultor]

So, I've read a lot of stuff about people thinking Brian is reacting to every conversation concerning loopholes about the past 4-5 comics, and debunking them with each new update. However, is it so hard to believe that Brian has thought of all of these beforehand and is only now able to play them out concerning how little space he has for dialogue?

Or, y'know, he might be. There's really nothing wrong with it.

[tacticslion]

So Brian is doing the whole Women in Refrigerator thing as well?

Demons Against Raping Enemies?

No that would be stupid. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/01/31/episode-1089-special-delivery/)
'Cause, see, they already did that. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/08/23/episode-1028-the-beauty-of-nature/) That too. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/05/09/episode-1126-impasse/) Maybe those should be reversed. But whatever! I'm dyslexic!

[Kurosen]

So, I've read a lot of stuff about people thinking Brian is reacting to every conversation concerning loopholes about the past 4-5 comics, and debunking them with each new update. However, is it so hard to believe that Brian has thought of all of these beforehand and is only now able to play them out concerning how little space he has for dialogue?
It's this. The direction the debate takes in the forum did help to organize the debunking, but it was debunked long before it was revealed to you guys.

[Molotovich]

I don't think so, but you are quite possibly right. It's just when BM's said he might turn to good for the right woman - he immediately refutes it by saying she'd want to do non-evil things.



no*

*I D.A.R.E. you!

Stop trying to make things that doesnt exist exist!

And I think that sarda is about to get owned

[tacticslion]

Stop trying to make things that doesnt exist exist!

And I think that sarda is about to get owned

Which things don't exist? The BM-thing or D.A.R.E.?

[timemonkey]

I don't think it was ever said that Bahamut would do anything (besides give a class change to the Enlightened Warrior(s)), just that his awakening marks the end times.

I suppose. But god kings generally awaken in order to do something.

I still suspect Black mage's real class change was changed (he fullfilled the requirements more than Thief or Fighter did so he definitely earned one) by Darko, for whatever reason. Maybe to prevent Black Mage from causing something or getting redeamed or whatever.

Mayeb Bahamut will arrive and change classes around again?

[bluestarultor]

Which things don't exist? The BM-thing or D.A.R.E.?

Is it wrong that I can't remember what D.A.R.E. really stands for and all I can come up with is "DRUGS ARE REALLY EVIL! http://s.cdn.gaiaonline.com/images/common/smilies/icon_scream.gif"? XD

[tacticslion]

Is it wrong that I can't remember what D.A.R.E. really stands for and all I can come up with is "DRUGS ARE REALLY EVIL! http://s.cdn.gaiaonline.com/images/common/smilies/icon_scream.gif"? XD

I'm a helper! (http://www.dare.com/home/about_dare.asp)

[Martyr]

If the LWs do save the day and defeat Sarda, and there is some ChaOs roaming the land that they were supposed to defeat way back when, wtf?

It'd be nice if the whole purpose of the orbs was so that Sarda could summon Chaos and then kill him(her? it? What is Chaos?) real quick just to tie up loose ends before the final battle between him and Garland.

Or is Garland still Chaos like in the game?

Bfff.

After the story ends, it's probably EPS who suddenly transforms into Chaos and destroys the world.

[waw]

So, Brian, does that mean that you'll just keep making comics as long as we find loopholes?

[bluestarultor]

So, Brian, does that mean that you'll just keep making comics as long as we find loopholes?

Way to peter out the series, man. Geez, give the writer some air! XP

[tacticslion]

Way to peter out the series, man. Geez, give the writer some air! XP

The series was always going to peter out and you know it. Twelve years from now, the Light Warriors will finally get done taunting Sarda and he'll destroy them in one panel, but no one will notice because we STOPPED WATCHING MULDER BE STUPID FOUR YEARS AGO - er... I mean stopped reading 8-Bit by then. Yeah, that's what I mean.
...
So... uh, about that Sarda! Man he jacked himself, didn't he? Heheh, yeah... totally smooth.

[The Wizard Who Did It]

So, Brian, does that mean that you'll just keep making comics as long as we find loopholes?
It's not really a loophole if he can repeatedly prove you wrong.
It's this. The direction the debate takes in the forum did help to organize the debunking, but it was debunked long before it was revealed to you guys.
Reminds me of people talking about how the great strength of webcomics is the notable ability for the author to respond to his audience quickly. That is, while the entire arc and overall ideas are constant and thought up by the author, the author also has the ability to answer questions and concerns in comic quickly.

I also think it's kind of sad that I recognize this as a RM gag from about 600 comics ago (before the Castle of Ordeal, I think?).

EDIT: Awesome. Thanks, Fen!

[Molotovich]

Which things don't exist? The BM-thing or D.A.R.E.?

Never mind me, that crack pipe must be doing its job right now :D

[Fenris]

I also think it's kind of sad that I recognize this as a RM gag from about 600 comics ago (before the Castle of Ordeal, I think?).

Yo? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/08/16/episode-587-penetrating-research/)

[Bard The 5th LW]

Never mind me, that crack pipe must be doing its job right now :D

IT WOULDN'T BE IF YOU WOULD JUST SHARE!

I am being discriminated against for not existing!

[tacticslion]

I am being discriminated against for not existing!

Is that discrimination? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/08/30/episode-1031-sole-food/)

[Fenris]

Topic lies over yonder hill.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Well at this point I feel any prediction we make is an inverse to Red Mage's theory that there is always a 1/20 chance you will fail.
We have 1/20 chance of succeeding, sort of like BM.

[AngelFoodBB]

That wouldn't happen, because everything is predetermined.:D

So if Sarda decided to blast them before they were strong enough to withstand it...then what?

The whole "predetermined" thing makes no sense if one person with ultimate power has knowledge of said future.

Only thing that we can draw is this version of Sarda doesn't want to not exist so he doesn't mess with anything when he logically could. Had he killed them before these events sarda would be unmade as onion kid wouldn't have done what he would have done.

[krogothwolf]

No that would be stupid. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/01/31/episode-1089-special-delivery/)
'Cause, see, they already did that. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/08/23/episode-1028-the-beauty-of-nature/) That too. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/05/09/episode-1126-impasse/) Maybe those should be reversed. But whatever! I'm dyslexic!

Should get that wife of yours to go over your stuff again :p

[Nezz]

It seems to me it's only predetermined because Sarda thought it was. If Sarda had the attitude he could do whatever the hell he wanted with time then he always would have done things in the best possible manner, and would always see it as such. Instead he has the idea that he can't change it, so he's limited by the fact that he resigns himself to time.

[tacticslion]

Should get that wife of yours to go over your stuff again :p

Quiet, you!

So if Sarda decided to blast them before they were strong enough to withstand it...then what?

The whole "predetermined" thing makes no sense if one person with ultimate power has knowledge of said future.

Only thing that we can draw is this version of Sarda doesn't want to not exist so he doesn't mess with anything when he logically could. Had he killed them before these events sarda would be unmade as onion kid wouldn't have done what he would have done.

It seems to me it's only predetermined because Sarda thought it was. If Sarda had the attitude he could do whatever the hell he wanted with time then he always would have done things in the best possible manner, and would always see it as such. Instead he has the idea that he can't change it, so he's limited by the fact that he resigns himself to time.

AngelFoodBB - they're still not strong enough to withstand it. Sarda just killed them. In fact, he's killed them (or at least damaged them all severely) more than once before. He's just doing this because he wants too, yeah.

Nezz - the question is whether or not Sarda has tried. And, in fact, he has. He's failed, too. He sent WM to a "pocket dimension" to ensure that she wouldn't be sent back in time... which sent her back in time. He - as and adult Onion Kid - spent all of his magic in order to get to the beginning of the universe, just to find out that he's too late, and everythings happend as it was 'destined' to. He's tried to teach Black Mage how to be a good person and what morality means by making time itself stop for a while, thus probably negating BM's evil... and failed. No, Sarda has made numerous attempts to alter the course of history, but history - in the 8-Bit universe - is inevitable, at least as far as the time-loop is concerned. Thus, Sarda - in my opinion anyway - has shown that he doesn't want to be stuck in a perpetual time loop of existance, but he has anyway. I don't think Sarda knew, for sure, that they hadn't done the evil to Onion Kid, yet. Maybe he did, but I'm not sure. Obviously, things hadn't gotten far enough in the future for his memories to have coalesced into what he'd seen before, but... anyway. Just my (rushed) think on that.

[krogothwolf]

Or Sarda could just be doing that as he knows it what he has to do in order for time to flow normally. He could have killed them off with a single magic attack at any time but never even tried. He probably doesn't really care and just is following his own destiny and not really trying to change it.

And... I SHALL NEVER BE HUSHED!

[Orestes]

We've seen the whole "Red Mage says something he doesn't know can be interpreted sexually" before, but man do I love receiving it.

Also, pretty much everything Red Mage has said in the past 15ish comics has been immediately refuted:

"You already did that." Then the tendrils hurt White Mage.
"Maybe she's okay." lol
"Yeah. I do." / "I won't let you destroy the world." NO EPIC BATTLE FOR YOU!
"You are the end boss!" Well, that was partially true.
"But we didn't help!" Sometimes.
"we'll kill the younger you so you never grow up and this never happens!" Nah.
"You could have stopped us!" Nope.
And now this.

Disagree on that last one. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Sarda couldn't have stopped them except for Sarda's highly questionable say-so, and all other available evidence points to the much likelier proposition that he could have, had he ever bothered to try. Since he was so busy being convinced he couldn't, he of course never tried, and therefore, he didn't. But had he even once tried to stop them, it's pretty difficult to come up with any plausible way he could have failed, and with his foreknowledge of their actions, it could never be argued he didn't try to stop them because he didn't yet know what they were going to do.

Therefore, the time loop only works because Sarda spends most of the comic ensuring that it does. Replace Sarda with an otherwise identical character whose only difference is a consistent desire to change what happened, and the whole loop falls apart spectacularly.

This is one the reasons the time loop just isn't logically consistent. The comic's cute and fun, but I still contend we're simply not breaking any major ground in terms of creating a logically consistent time loop here.

You can, by the way, make a logically consistent argument for non-theological determinism. This just isn't that argument, as no one having any foreknowledge whatsoever of all events that are "going" to take place is actually one of the prerequisites for making it work. It's precisely their lack of foreknowledge that causes them to bumble predictably into the actions that their exact combination of genetic makeup and life experience to date would lead them to take. The moment you grant them foreknowledge of that, you almost guarantee they're going to do something else, even if it's for no better reason than human beings tend to be extremely perverse creatures. Or to put it another way, you just introduced another variable into the complex equations that describe their lives, and oops, that just completely changed the equations.

So in conclusion, I'm calling Sarda out as full of ****. Unless you're being coerced by a separate outside force (like God saying "this is the way it is no matter what" in the Christian idea of theological determinism) aside from the sequence of events themselves, you absolutely cannot claim you know what's going to happen, yet cannot change it, regardless of having sufficient power and opportunity to do so effortlessly. It's a fundamentally incoherent claim.

Edit: Oh, and just to be perfectly clear, claims that Sarda did try are also silly. All he ever had to do was kill the Light Warriors. This is not rocket science. He's powerful enough to have killed them any time he chose. Even if he wanted to try other things first, he had plenty of time to try them, give up on them, and then just go for the kill instead. He simply didn't do it, but that does nothing to prove the claim that he couldn't.

Edit 2: Although, hm. What if Sarda's also genetically predisposed to be a fatalistic loser who gives up after exactly one try, no matter what's changed since then? I suppose then you could sort of say he was always going to take the most pathetic, ineffective road because he's just naturally predisposed to be pathetic and ineffective, so that even armed with nigh-omnipotence and foreknowledge of future events, he still couldn't muster the intestinal fortitude to do something as simple as make one more minimal effort and just kill the people he already knows are going to make his life miserable.

But then where did he get the motivation and dedication to study so hard and become so powerful? And why make all of the other minimal efforts he made in moving the Light Warriors all over the place?

No, even then, it still doesn't make any sense. :stressed:

[Desgami]

"We'll jack it right off!"

I love you so much.

[tshadowdrag]

Silly red mage and his wordings. What would the universe be like without you? Great comic

[SaintRCat]

Here we go. Pure ultimate proof that Black Mage is more evil than Sarda.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/06/14/episode-1005-of-hardships/

Sarda has been turned into nothing but hatred. Black Mage not only has hatred (his own doubled + that of the 4 Fiends) but also lust for White Mage. And greed, considering that he had to face the Ordeal of Avarice.

There, it's been proven forever. And since the lesser of two evils always wins in this comic, Sarda will win.

Of course, if we assume that Black Mage has always been the most evil, then the most evil group always wins. If so, then Sarda loses!

What a quandry.

[Chocobo]

Actually, didn't he only have to face the Ordeal of Avarice because Thief tricked him? I don't remember.

[Spekkio]

I can't believe people are still trying to apply logic to this comic. I have given up that futile exercise, completely.

[Molotovich]

I can't believe people are still trying to apply logic to this comic. I have given up that futile exercise, completely.

SHUN THE UNBELIEVER... SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNN!!!!11!!: stressed:

[Meister]

Actually, didn't he only have to face the Ordeal of Avarice because Thief tricked him? I don't remember.
Nope, complete accident. Fighter touched a column and Thief and Black Mage switched places.

[tshadowdrag]

Nope, complete accident. Fighter touched a column and Thief and Black Mage switched places.

I still have a thought like that is how the whole story is going to end. Something big will happen on accident, it seems that's the only way for things to happen when they don't go according to plan. We know how well they always (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2002/03/09/episode-125-its-not-surprising/) work don't we?

What also gets me is if anyone ever discussed this (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/09/25/episode-081-its-another-one-of-those-weird-episodes/) comic? It doesn't seem to have really been addressed anywhere, and it obviously fits in somewhere about Chaos...

[MalLionheart]

What also gets me is if anyone ever discussed this (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/09/25/episode-081-its-another-one-of-those-weird-episodes/) comic? It doesn't seem to have really been addressed anywhere, and it obviously fits in somewhere about Chaos...

I figured it was about Black Mage. Seeing as Darko has told him he's a Nexus before I believe.

[Yozul]

So wait, what if instead of events happening one after the other, time all happened at once as soon as the universe was formed? What if it's only our perception that time is moving in one way?

Anyway, what if there are lots and lots of universes popping into existence at random, but any that involve someone going back in time and altering things in such a way that they end up different just instantly fall back in on themselves, so maybe the 8-bit theater universe exist because Sarda didn't change anything?

[HisshouBuraiken]

I registered to post this. It is the only way this fight will end. Also, I am a moron.
************************************************** ************

Red Mage: "Get ready, Sarda. We're about to eat you for breakfast like a Sar-dough bread sandwich!"

Thief/Fighter/BM: Ungh.

Sarda: ...I knew what you were going to say before language existed and I still don't get that.

Fighter: Can I do this one, guys? Pretty please?

Thief: Go ahead, Fighter.

Fighter to RM: Step aside, IDIOT.

Fighter: Brehehehem.

Fighter: IT SARDA IMAGINE HOW HARD WE'RE GONNA KICK YOUR ASS!

Fighter has his arms up. Pause for 3 panels. Sarda explodes.

[Sliths]

At the end of FF1 it turned out the whole adventure never happened, with the morale being that so long as it existed in our hearts, that's all that mattered.


I'm guessing this will end with...it turned out the whole adventure never happened, with absolutely no morale what so ever, and someone saying "Oh shit".

[The Wizard Who Did It]

I'm guessing this will end with...it turned out the whole adventure never happened, with absolutely no morale what so ever, and someone saying "Oh shit".
There was a quote of Brian saying that he's not going to do THAT specific time loop bullshit. Although looking back, I don't know how specific he was being.