The Order of the Stick Megathread

[Mirai Gen]

Mostly I think he knows he can't win and won't be able to win anyone over with any sort of "Ethics" talk.

[Aerozord]

I think it was more that he found it hilarious HE was the one giving the talk. Roles were reversed he'd be the one doing the dangling and although he is many things, a hipocrit is not one of them. Never seen him yell at someone for doing what he himself would do.

[Jagos]

I'm almost tempted to say this is one of at least three times that Belkar has used the What the Hell, Hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle0z548336167v?from=Main.WhatTheHellHero) trope...

Eh, screw it, he went there.

[Loyal]

Good lord, Haley, control yourself!

[Mirai Gen]

Smooth exposition and a good joke. Good stuff in this comic.

I do like that Burlew's not shying away from expanding on character relationships IE sex - Elan's experience with the sorceress chick back in the second book comes to mind too.

[Aerozord]

I am still slightly disturbed that she was arroused by a giant poison toothed spice addicted worm

[Locke cole]

I am still slightly disturbed that she was arroused by a giant poison toothed spice addicted worm

Bolded in the name of Freud.

[Steel Shadow]

In fairness, I think the poison toothed thing was something in Belkars book, nto the actual worm.

Only makes it a little less disturbing though.

[Arhra]

Don't worry Belkar, Baron Harkonnen will be alright!

HAPPY END!

[Meister]

So, uh, Girard is/may be alive? I always kinda took it for granted that all of those people were dead. Come to think of it, that was never explicitly stated, but this is still kind of a surprise.

[Odjn]

It's unlikely but possible. Dorukan was recently alive. The halfing is prolly dead as if I recall they have much shorter lifespans.

[Dracorion]

So, uh, Girard is/may be alive? I always kinda took it for granted that all of those people were dead. Come to think of it, that was never explicitly stated, but this is still kind of a surprise.

I suspect Roy is just being stupid. Soon was already pretty old when Shojo was just a kid (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) and even if Girard was a good twenty years younger than Soon, he should still be over seventy.

EDIT:It's unlikely but possible. Dorukan was recently alive. The halfing is prolly dead as if I recall they have much shorter lifespans.

Hm, yeah, I guess. Dorukan was still alive six months before the comic started.

[Odjn]

I suspect Roy is just being stupid. Soon was already pretty old when Shojo was just a kid (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) and even if Girard was a good twenty years younger than Soon, he should still be over seventy.

Ehhh, it's shaky. Dorukan was still alive.

[Mirai Gen]

The only one who actually would have been alive is Lirian, due to being an elf, but she already got killed I thought. But Soon might have been really old.

But yeah I think Roy just isn't thinking this through, which seems odd. You'd suspect one of the three - V Roy and Durkon - would do some basic math.

EDIT: What exactly are they going to do, anyway? I've never been clear on what the race to the Gates really meant.

[Odjn]

The only one who actually would have been alive is Lirian, due to being an elf, but she already got killed I thought. But Soon might have been really old.

But yeah I think Roy just isn't thinking this through, which seems odd. You'd suspect one of the three - V Roy and Durkon - would do some basic math.

EDIT: What exactly are they going to do, anyway? I've never been clear on what the race to the Gates really meant.

Tell the epic adventurer dood what's going on and lay a trap for Xykon- namely, get to the gate, wait til he busts a lot of his spells for the day by going forward, then hitting him with everything they have.

[Meister]

What exactly are they going to do, anyway? I've never been clear on what the race to the Gates really meant.
I think the Order is just going to the gates to save them from Xykon and probably try and kill him in the process.

You'd suspect one of the three - V Roy and Durkon - would do some basic math.
Exactly. Actually the math here is in fact so basic that I'd have thought even the chance of Girard being alive would have to be a bigger revelation than this. It's like knowing Albert Einstein was born in 1879* and then someone goes "boy this physics problem here sure is hard, let's go ring that Einstein guy's doorbell and ask him for help" and everyone is like, yeah okay, great idea.

*without also knowing he died in '55, obviously

EDIT: also for the record, until proven otherwise I'm going to assume they're in fact already right in the middle of Girard's illusions. Not necessarily as an explanation to timeline stuff, simply because it's the safest assumption.

[greed]

I may be misremembering but didn't Girard have pointy ears in one of the illustrations of him? Cause him being an elf or half-elf would totally explain this, it would be quite reasonable to expect one of them to be alive if Dorukan was.

[Mirai Gen]

I think the Order is just going to the gates to save them from Xykon and probably try and kill him in the process.
You know when I read this my first thought was "Well why do they know he's going to Girard's gate first?"

Then I remembered the Oracle. So, yeah, call it crummy memory on my part.
I may be misremembering but didn't Girard have pointy ears in one of the illustrations of him? Cause him being an elf or half-elf would totally explain this, it would be quite reasonable to expect one of them to be alive if Dorukan was.

Nah - check out Drac's link. That comic and the one before it are pretty much the only illustrations of the Order of the Scribble. Only Lirian is an elf; Dorukan died in the conflict at the Rift and the halfling woman's kind of vanished.

[Aerozord]

I also dont think it mentioned when he and Xykon fought. It could have been a few decades ago for all we know. Plus dont magic users have life prolonging spells and talismens? It had to have been a rather long time ago, Azure City was based around one tear and you dont grow to that size, and to where few know why the city was even formed, without atleast several decades passing

[Odjn]

I also dont think it mentioned when he and Xykon fought. It could have been a few decades ago for all we know. Plus dont magic users have life prolonging spells and talismens? It had to have been a rather long time ago, Azure City was based around one tear and you dont grow to that size, and to where few know why the city was even formed, without atleast several decades passing

3 years ago, according to Start of Darkness.

[Meister]

The comic before the one Drac posted tells us the first rift was discovered 66 years ago. So, not outside the realm of possibility, but Girard would probably be in his high 80s either way you look at it.

[MFD]

Girard and Dorukan were both wizards, as well, which would be a reasonable explanation for why he may still be alive.

[Masaki-kun]

He's gonna be old, but maybe well preserved. You know what'd be funny... if he was a lich.

[Aerozord]

my money is him having an illusion that makes him appear young

also why do they think true seeing will work. If one spell can just peirce his illusions then they wouldn't have been too nifty

[Jagos]

He and the thief should be since we don't know anything about them.

[Mirai Gen]

also why do they think true seeing will work. If one spell can just peirce his illusions then they wouldn't have been too nifty
Gotta start somewhere. I'm all for the idea that Girard isn't so stupid to let a #th level spell trump his magic, but I don't know how many options they have.

[Meister]

I'd have to look it up to be absolutely sure but I think there are quite a few spells that fall under illusion and that True Seeing doesn't do jack against. (Although things like Ghost Sound come to mind.) I'm also sure the explicitly stated "two times" Durkon prepared it will come into play. Chekhov's Spell Slots, you might say.

Also just as a sidenote I'm less hung up about Girard (possibly) being alive as such, since there's any number of ways to accomplish that in D&D, than I am about everyone treating it so matter-of-factly. Well, wait and see.

Oh, and on more general terms I hope they won't actually get to the gate that quickly. I've been looking forward to seeing something of this continent.

[Jagos]

Side quest in 3... 2... 1...

[Odjn]

Oh, and on more general terms I hope they won't actually get to the gate that quickly. I've been looking forward to seeing something of this continent.

Hell, there's even a feat for it.

[BitVyper]

I'd have to look it up to be absolutely sure but I think there are quite a few spells that fall under illusion and that True Seeing doesn't do jack against.

I don't know about "quite a few," but obviously anything that's just sound will do, and of course once you get into epic territory all bets are off. Plus, even if he's got no sight-illusions that bypass True Seeing, "two times" doesn't cover the whole party. Then there's the real fun with illusions - throwing the occasional real threat in the middle of them.

Then again, if I were a particularly clever illusionist, I'd be counting on true seeing to make people overconfident.

[MFD]

Again, I have no problem with everyone assuming that a wizard will be alive after 66/67 years.

[Odjn]

I don't think Girard is a pure wizard. If anything he'd probably be a sorcerer/bard hybrid, or possibly ranger, as he dual wields in combat and no mage class is really good at that.

[Mirai Gen]

I don't think Girard is a pure wizard. If anything he'd probably be a sorcerer/bard hybrid, or possibly ranger, as he dual wields in combat and no mage class is really good at that.

I'm pretty sure it's Bard; bards are pretty good at illusions, and most of the Scribble has some kind of parallel in the Stick.

That and Sorcerer/Ranger is a terrible build.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Isn't it more like Ranger/Anything is a terrible build?
I had a pretty good ranger/sorcerer once. He was excellent at nearly dying.

[Eltargrim]

Ranger/Scout with the Swift Hunter feat is a thing to be feared, especially once you add in the Splitting enhancement from Champions of Ruin. Twice as much Skirmish damage? Yes please!

[Meister]

The one time we saw a psionic character that was identified as such he had face tattoos, and so does Girard. Just to throw that in the mix. Of course we've seen a few more characters with face tattoos; I'd wager it's about equally possible that those were all psionics or that they were just badasses, so this really isn't conclusive evidence for anything at all.

e: This is an even longer shot at this point but if Girard is a Psion or Psionic Warrior and if psi and ordinary magic don't influence each other in OotSworld Durkon is carrying around two wasted spell slots.

e2: I told a lie, I meant the guy in that one cutaway joke about "the little Psion that could." But when Redcloak was interrogating O-Chul they brought in a Goblinoid Psion with no tattoos. So whatever.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Ranger/Scout with the Swift Hunter feat is a thing to be feared, especially once you add in the Splitting enhancement from Champions of Ruin. Twice as much Skirmish damage? Yes please!

With enough supplements you can make any build stupid. I still remember our one session, epic madness, anything goes campaign where my character was an old age "fighter" with 1 level in every base class and as many prestige classes as I could qualify for and he destroyed all the sensibly built characters because I just took ridiculous feats and prestige classes.

As for the tattoos/psionic link, I've seen that somewhere else before. Not sure where but it's not completely out of nowhere.

[Mirai Gen]

The one time we saw a psionic character that was identified as such he had face tattoos, and so does Girard. Just to throw that in the mix.
Most of my stuff is in boxes so I don't know where my psionics book is; how many illusions are there, anyway?

That'd be a hell of a wild card though.

[MFD]

Hm. Psion is a possibility. And not the scars thing, O-Chul is plenty evidence to the contrary. Plus, the human psion was from a storybook. The Goblinoid was blue, though, which is the color du jour for psionic eyes (see: Belkar).

I would not be surprised if Girard is a Psion, or at least became one when he began guarding the Gate.

[Odjn]

Haley's new outfit is p. similar to Sabine's original outfit.

[Meister]

Hey guys guess what (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0691.html)




Roy, buddy, there's an inherent problem in basing your search on the "aesthetics of the scenery" when an illusionist has been through that scenery.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Roy, buddy, there's an inherent problem in basing your search on the "aesthetics of the scenery" when an illusionist has been through that scenery.

Yeah, but he says literally just a few lines later that it won't work and he's hoping Elan will trip over a trapdoor or something if he runs around enough.

Also, my personal theory is that it's not magically hidden or anything. Instead, he just did something mundane, like move the desert's surface level up a couple of hundred feet with an Epic spell to put the rift underground.

Then he just lied about what he did, because no self respecting illusionist doesn't put a ton of ranks in Bluff.

I mean, pretty much no one is going to expect the big bad illusionist to do something that doesn't actually involve illusions.

EDIT: Either that, or it is actually protected by illusions and such, and the treasure chest Elan ran into is the door.

Which is probably more likely.

[Aerozord]

though the rift might also just naturally be in the air or underground like the last two were. It seems there is no record of its exact location, Xykon did put some effort into finding where the last gate was after all

[Mr.Bookworm]

It's that time of year again. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0692.html)

Was pretty well done. I liked the shot of V and Blackwing looking around against the moon, and Elan dueling a cactus to get a flower for Haley.

Anyway, I still think it's hidden mundanely. Either that or Roy fucked up the navigation.

[Aerozord]

like the ominous latin chanting, the joke completely falls apart in a purely visual media

[Mirai Gen]

I like that his bard songs have transcended beyond "Bluff/Bluff/Bluff/Bluff the stupid ogre."

[Odjn]

Such a nice beard.

[Meister]

So long, psionics theory, it was fun while it lasted.

[MFD]

He has a dragon tattoo, not a scar. Cool.

ANYWAYS. Shouldn't Roy be more worried about an illusion activated by mentioning one of the other members of the Order of the Scribble, given their agreement?

[Dracorion]

Naw, makes sense. Whoever was looking for the gates would know that Soon and Girard didn't get along, so they wouldn't think about using Soon or the Saphire Guard as a password.

Whoever got the password right would have to be smart enough, lucky enough, or dramatically-inclined enough to figure it out, all which would we be okay with Girard.

EDIT: When did they say "gate"?

[Locke cole]

Stupid last minute dialogue re-writes...

I guess Roy must have said, "Where is this stupid Gate?!?" to himself in frustration in the panel before this comic started. :p.

[Meister]

At least given the situation it's easy to buy that someone said "gate" at some point inbetween panels. If this had happened with Belkar's Greater Mark of Justice things might be more difficult (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0569.html).

[MFD]

I guess out of all of them, Girard would trust Soon the most to not go seeking him out for poor reasons.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Then he just lied about what he did, because no self respecting illusionist doesn't put a ton of ranks in Bluff.


Well, I was sort of right.

Is it just me, or is the Order of the Crayon more dysfunctional and backstabbing then the Order of the Stick ever was? Like, seriously, the only two that seemed to get along were sleeping together, and then the halfling seemed to spend most of her time playing diplomat to the others.

[Jagos]

Holy Shit. Belkar in a different form.

[Loyal]

Clever bastard. I have a new favorite.

[Meister]

In retrospect I wonder how I ever considered the chance of Girard's Gate getting found this quickly remotely realistic.

[Mirai Gen]

I have to wonder why he'd go through the effort lying to them and then when they arrived to the destination actually tell them his Gate wasn't there and that he was lying.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

No, I've totally done that to my fellow PCs before. It was more to teach them a lesson than anything. Leadership at its finest.

[Mirai Gen]

Is it just me, or is the Order of the Crayon more dysfunctional and backstabbing then the Order of the Stick ever was? Like, seriously, the only two that seemed to get along were sleeping together, and then the halfling seemed to spend most of her time playing diplomat to the others.

I'm guessing he prepared this spell after their huge argument and therefore was still kind of bitter about the whole deal.

[Aerozord]

I have to wonder why he'd go through the effort lying to them and then when they arrived to the destination actually tell them his Gate wasn't there and that he was lying.
because he wanted to satisfaction of him realizing he was outsmarted
No, I've totally done that to my fellow PCs before. It was more to teach them a lesson than anything. Leadership at its finest.

though this was specifically a shot at the leader

[Odjn]

There is a chance Girard realizes this is actually the 10% possibility.

[Meister]

True but he already failed to realize there could actually be a legit "greater good" excuse. (Makes me wonder if, after placing this illusion, he ever thought about what he put in it and realized he might have screwed up quite a bit.)

though this was specifically a shot at the leader
Last panel struck me as particularly poignant since Roy himself hired a man for tracking who has no ranks in Survival and a non-positive Wisdom modifier.

[Loyal]

I like the potshot Nightwing took at V.

[Mirai Gen]

(Makes me wonder if, after placing this illusion, he ever thought about what he put in it and realized he might have screwed up quite a bit.)
Could be - if you look the way his speech is structured he's basically taking the opportunity to kick Soon Kim in the balls over and over after they agreed to never meet again. So he could have been angry at Soon for the rest of his natural life, or he could have realized his mistake and done something to make up for it? I'm curious to see where it's going from here.

[Kim]

Oh, good. I was worried the plot was going to advance. That was a close call.

[Odjn]

I don't think Girard is a pure wizard. If anything he'd probably be a sorcerer/bard hybrid, or possibly ranger, as he dual wields in combat and no mage class is really good at that.


HA!

[Art of Hilt]

On the one hand, there's going to be a sidequest. Yay desert sidequest!
On the other hand, there's going to be another fucking sidequest.

[Mirai Gen]

Looking back on the Order of the Scribble comics it occurs to me now that Girard's always been kind of a jackass.

[Aerozord]

Oh, good. I was worried the plot was going to advance. That was a close call.

more or less my sentiment too, what with his already slow updates it will be months before they get to the next gate.

[Jagos]

Could be - if you look the way his speech is structured he's basically taking the opportunity to kick Soon Kim in the balls over and over after they agreed to never meet again. So he could have been angry at Soon for the rest of his natural life, or he could have realized his mistake and done something to make up for it? I'm curious to see where it's going from here.

It's just the same as real life adventuring. Even Roy said it himself. Just because they don't agree on the same purpose, it doesn't mean they should stop the adventure for the greater good. But I don't think old grudges, especially something like Kraagor's "death", will simply melt their feud.

[MFD]

Well, aren't they just fucked.

And Belkar and Durkon make a reappearance... doing nothing.

[Jagos]

Ok... So Kraagor and Girard were really close friends.

[Meister]

If Serini's diary really is the key Redcloak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html) should be looking into getting the hell away options.

[MFD]

Wait, wait, wait. Something completely bothers me about this.

Xykon has Serini's diary. Surely it mentions the Oath in there.

Sooo... why didn't Redcloak not know about the Oath?

[Loyal]

I'm sorry, the double negative there threw me off. Are you saying that Redcloak should not have known about the oath?

Because that makes no sense.

[Odjn]

I'm sorry, the double negative there threw me off. Are you saying that Redcloak should not have known about the oath?

Because that makes no sense.

He should have known.

[Loyal]

He did know about the oath.

It's just that he, like Girard, refused to believe that it would have been upheld.

[Meister]

Maybe Xykon only ever read the diary himself and told Redcloak only parts of it?

I dunno, honestly I think Haley immediately pinning the diary as the key to Girard's Gate is jumping to conclusions the same way Roy just assumed Girard was still alive. If they're both right all this is pretty rapidly becoming a very obvious plot device to drop information on the reader :/.

[Mirai Gen]

I am astounded to the degree at which Girard hates Soon. Holy shit. This is what happens when a party goes sour.

[MFD]

This is what happens when an EPIC party goes sour.

And I'm sorry, but OK, I guess Redcloak could have not believed the oath would be upheld...

Also, Meister? I think you have that backwards. Redcloak's the thinky type, not Xykon. Redcloak has probably read the book, and Xykon probably only read the good bits.

[01d55]

And I'm sorry, but OK, I guess Redcloak could have not believed the oath would be upheld...
He straight up said that the paladins would've had to be crazy to keep their oath while he was trying to find out how the gate was defended (and not at all asking where the gate was).

[Jagos]

This is what happens when an EPIC party goes sour.

And I'm sorry, but OK, I guess Redcloak could have not believed the oath would be upheld...

Also, Meister? I think you have that backwards. Redcloak's the thinky type, not Xykon. Redcloak has probably read the book, and Xykon probably only read the good bits.

No, Xykon has read the book and deciphered where Dorukon was. He researched Dorukon's gate for three years until he finally found his from Serini's words. From the sounds, he figured out where Lirian's was, then worked it out to find Dorukon's.

Hate to say it but Xykon did his research. He's interested in the Maguffin but he's smart enough to actually try not to be lazy every now and again.

[Raiden]

Maybe Xykon only ever read the diary himself and told Redcloak only parts of it?

I dunno, honestly I think Haley immediately pinning the diary as the key to Girard's Gate is jumping to conclusions the same way Roy just assumed Girard was still alive. If they're both right all this is pretty rapidly becoming a very obvious plot device to drop information on the reader :/.

I think it's less that the diary is the key, as much as the diary is likely where the real coordinates of the gate are. And Xykon's the one that has it. So because an illusionist got super paranoid (and is a bit of a jackass), the true location of that gate down there is in the big bad's hands.

I'll be honest. I spent most of the comic wishing there was a way to kick a dead guy in the nuts that didn't involve going back up to the place with all the dead people to hunt him down.

[Aerozord]

why does everyone think he's dead? He said this thing triggered an alert for him, although he might be dead at the very least this wasn't a death message. For that matter are we sure our little dairy owner is dead too? Seems a safe bet just curious if it was ever said.

[MFD]

Not sure how Xykon got Serini's diary. Probably in Start of Darkness.

[Raiden]

why does everyone think he's dead? He said this thing triggered an alert for him, although he might be dead at the very least this wasn't a death message. For that matter are we sure our little dairy owner is dead too? Seems a safe bet just curious if it was ever said.

We're assuming he's dead, since the Rifts thing happened a LONG time ago.

[Loyal]

As in, long enough that a massive city could be built, and Soon Kim's immediate successor could grow to be eighty-something years old before being cut in half by a psychotic paladin.

[Mirai Gen]

why does everyone think he's dead? He said this thing triggered an alert for him, although he might be dead at the very least this wasn't a death message. For that matter are we sure our little dairy owner is dead too? Seems a safe bet just curious if it was ever said.

Every single character in OOTS seems completely convinced without so much as a lingering thought otherwise that he's 100% alive, no questions asked.

[ChaoticBroth]

But remember that Dorukan was still alive to fight Xykon six months prior to the beginning of OotS. Provided he didn't use his magic to prolong his life, it's somewhat plausible that Girard is still alive.

Come on, he's able to hide a rift in a desert. A barren wasteland where anything would stand out. It's possible he's capable of extending his lifespan.

[The Argent Lord]

Come on, he's able to hide a rift in a desert. A barren wasteland where anything would stand out.

No he isn't. Or at least he didn't. The rift's not there, as the illusion just told us.

[Aerozord]

I just realized, we are assuming humans live what we'd consider average lives. Entirely possible mystic healing, ressurection, ect has lengthened human life span to a few centuries

[Loyal]

I assumed we were assuming humans live out lifespans approximately equal to what the Monster Manual lists their ages as.

[Mirai Gen]

Death via old age is pretty hard to circumvent in DND world. Being a lich or having some kind of god's favor is pretty much the only way to do it.
But remember that Dorukan was still alive to fight Xykon six months prior to the beginning of OotS.
That's...actually not a bad point. He was old but he was alive.

I think that might have been why Roy had no problem assuming it was 100% Heartbeatsville for Girard.

Also, Girard is such a prick. I really can't get over that. "I'm so angry at you I'm going to go out of my way to mock and verbally abuse you for something you actually won't do and then attempt to kill you because of it."

[BitVyper]

To be fair, if it didn't kill Roy, it probably wasn't gonna kill Soon. Even considering what he said, I don't think he actually intended that to kill the guy, just make it very clear that he'd damn well like to.

[Mirai Gen]

"It should have been you that died in that rift. Allow me to remedy that now."

Nah I'm pretty sure Girard's spell didn't do as much dice as he'd have liked it to do. Which is to say, enough to KO Soon.

Although this looks more and more like main character related survivability.

EDIT: I did like the 2nd edition monster made into a sand castle that Roy fell on. Running gags are great in OOTS.

[Gregness]

I don't think that BOOM was the deathtrap itself. It's probably just the harbinger of whatever epic spell/high level beastie Girard could cook up.

Also, it could be that after all the pomp and ranting we see the dust settle and the Girard image saying the equivalent of "GOTCHA!". 'Cause, y'know, illusionist.

[Aerozord]

see it didn't really explode, they just thought it did and Roy's instinctively jumped into the air.

He still has that ring doesn't he?

[Meister]

Not sure how Xykon got Serini's diary. Probably in Start of Darkness.
No, it was pretty early in regular OotS. Redcloak escaped Dorukan's dungeon with Xykon, and they found an old tower where Xykon had hidden the diary. Something very much like that, anyway.

ressurection [...] has lengthened human life span to a few centuries
D&D resurrection can't revive someone who died of old age, though.

However since we're talking about lifespans, it's worth noting that the Player's Handbook says halflings regularly grow up to 150 years old. So while I'm still not convinced about Girard [or rather, the way his status was brought up in the comic], I'll accept Serini being still alive without thinking twice.

[Jagos]

Which is another conundrum.

Serini's diary. How did Xykon get it in the first place? Something in those past three years led him to her. Technically, if she were still alive, he wouldn't have it.

[Odjn]

Girard could still be alive. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#extendedLifeSpan)

[Meister]

Redcloak and Xykon collect Serini's diary. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html)

This comic will show you I'm a moron who should read older comics before he goes on about how characters are jumping to conclusions and that's really bad writing! Because it says plain as day Serini has the coordinates encoded in the diary. I totally forgot about that detail.

[MFD]

I remember that. I'm not sure how Xykon got Serini's diary in the first place. Is Serini still out there adventuring without her diary?

[ChaoticBroth]

I remember that. I'm not sure how Xykon got Serini's diary in the first place. Is Serini still out there adventuring without her diary?Maybe the pages just filled up or something, then, she kept it in a "safe" place, and possibly continued her adventures.

Or, you know, did that and died somewhere without anyone's knowledge.

[Aerozord]

Redcloak and Xykon collect Serini's diary. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html)


wait, did anyone else notice that? they dated when the gates were found. Its only been 65 years. Yea he'd be old but assuming he wasn't past 30 he isn't even 100 yet. I'm not sure what human life span is in DnD but it doesn't seem unreasonable that old age hasn't gotten him yet

[Steel Shadow]

Xykon got Serini's diary in Start of Darkness, yes. And she's dead, yup. Her zombie body may well still be shuffling around in Xykons army. Did you expect differently?

[Jagos]

Where did we see that for Serini?

[Steel Shadow]

in Start of Darkness
.

[Jagos]

No, you're saying she's dead. Page 95, all he says is he found her diary. It may be a relic or something else. What you're not explaining is how you have confirmation.

[Steel Shadow]

...Start of darkness. It's a prequel book, explaining the origins of Xykon, Redcloak, and a bit about the creature in the shadows. It's not online, you have to buy the physical thing. It explains exactly how they all met and how the villans got to where they were when the webcomic stated. And it shows how Xykon killed Serini and later Durkon.

It's a good book, but goddamn is Xykon evil.


Anyways, was I the only one who thought Girad looked alot like Haleys father? Minus the scar/tatto of course. It's probably just because of the way it's drawn, but still...

[Jagos]

I have the book, I looked on page 95 and saw him talk about the Diary. What I'm not seeing is Serini's body. That's what I'm confused about.

[Steel Shadow]

Ah, right, that. Sorry, my bad. Got her confused with Lirian. Huhm, they never did explain that.

[Meister]

Taking the time to write the "1" takes a particular kind of dedication. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0696.html)

I was going to say "to stupidity" but this is actually a pretty great little piece of characterization. Of course a bard would take the time to add a little detail like this because it just belongs.

[DFM]

I like the direction V's character is going.

[Aerozord]

last panel was awesome

[Mirai Gen]

I like the direction V's character is going.

This, yeah. If there was ever a huge indication that V is spinning down the path of amorality, having his raven explain to him that something is wrong is assuredly a step.

EDIT: Yeah I take that back, he was amoral and he's now heading towards immorality. Immorality = evil, whereas amorality is more neutral evil/chaotic neutral.

[Aerozord]

also good writing, minus the raven he'd either just suddenly stop being his usual snarky self, or would still be that but not power mad which is a shallow change in character. This way he has a third party to evaluate his actions and explain why blowing up the halfling is bad.

Though if I remember the definition correctly V was amoral before. Amoral means you do not subscribe to the idea of right and wrong and just do as you please. Which V did. Immoral would be being aware that what you were doing was wrong, which V never really did

[Steel Shadow]

Really? Given that he/she seems to be actually listening to the raven, I figure s/he's heading towards morality. He's, y'know, actually making an effort to fix him/herself. Clearly not doing that well at it, but no one ever said these things were fast.

[Aerozord]

what I am saying is that V's morality isn't whats different, but the new found ability to recognize that some of the stuff she does is on the evil side of morality. V wasn't self aware enough to even notice that before and never analyzed her own actions beyond "how could arcane power been better applied to that previous situation" and never "is it really ok to show total indifferance to the death of thousands of sentient life-forms"

[Zanaril]

It's if he starts ignoring Blackwing's advive that we should be worrying.

[Meister]

Order of the Stick: Meta as fuck (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0697.html)

Took me a few minutes to get this one.

[Loyal]

A good answer to "I know you know that I know" scenarios if ever there was one.

[Kim]

So I'm guessing they're going to use a searching montage to search the entire desert in just a minute's time.

[Aerozord]

nice to see such a level of logic. Normally they'd be so obsessed with finding out if it was there or not they'd forget thats pointless since they obviously cant find it.

[Mirai Gen]

I like Roy and Elan's discussion about two brain cells.

[Odjn]

Finally we see some hint of plot advancement!

[Aerozord]

I just hope that wasn't one of those "see if they just stayed alittle longer and searched" situations. Those always bring up people calling them idiots for making the best IC choice they could

[Meister]

Proper plot advancement, too, not this "let's ride to the next location on this improbable monster" stuff I was afraid for a bit would actually be the whole Girard's Gate path although I honestly should have known better. Excellent episode!

I don't think Tyrianiaria or whatever the name was of the place Haley's father is held is on that map. Doesn't have to mean anything given the "volatile political situation" but it's something a fair number of readers have probably been waiting to confirm, or, as it were, not.

Also: green. For some reason the green aura is particularly intriguing to me.

[Mirai Gen]

Also: green. For some reason the green aura is particularly intriguing to me.

Magic Mouth was the same way. I think it's just the way distance communication/scrying (Diviniation) magic works, but don't quote me on that.

[Aerozord]

oh as a side note, I like the names for geography, "GOAWAY MOUNTAINS"

[Wigmund]

Or the Empires of Blood, Sweat, and Tears; and the Free City of Doom.

[Art of Hilt]

"He gave me a direct order!"
Ha ha.
The giant monstrosity is so sweet.

[Mirai Gen]

"Teleporking" is an awesome word.

[Meister]

How impressive could a stick figure-style eyepatch possibly be?

[Loyal]

Well, considering the face and torso are the only parts of the humanoid body that get detailed...

[Kim]

Argh I just want to find out what he is under that umbrella urgh. Why would he know such things and not know how to cast spells?

[Mirai Gen]

...not sure I like this one.

[Jagos]

Ditto. Now I have to think he's a savant so my mind doesn't explode...

[Meister]

He's running on pure instinct. He sees things and knows they're a certain way, but not why or even any terminology. Charisma based caster with low Intelligence has been the standard interpretation for a while now, I think.

Love the last panel. Including Isamu (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html) really brings the point across.

Guess we're going to see a certain party of Elves again soon.

[Aerozord]

to me its more like pacing filler to keep the flow. It moves things along but in and of itself isn't all that entertaining

[Odjn]

Can undead be re undeaded?

Because Isamu-wight got killed already.

[Loyal]

I don't recall Wight-Isamu being killed.

[Odjn]

He's got DA Xes! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0521.html)

[Jagos]

Why not?

Tsukiko surely has enough power to raise her old wights and resupply herself. So long as the body is whole, she can make them do what's needed for her.

[Wigmund]

Holy shit that's a lot of goblinoids.

[Meister]

Cue half the GiantITP forum members combing through the 4E books to find a monster that has only powers that push, but none that pull, and the other half arguing that the first half is being silly because the OotS world clearly runs on 3.5.

[Aerozord]

and then pointing out that he did 'pull' thus making the search pointless.

Anyways, honestly I found this one abit lacking too. It was fine but just, eh. I expect more bang for my buck with a once a week comic.

[Meister]

They can't be constantly spectacular. You'd get bored and things would get silly as the writer has to look for ways to up the ante with every update and could never just take a breather and include some more leisurely paced episodes. You gotta have stretches of story that feel mundane, if nothing else to provide context for those parts that feature big reveals or plot points or are in any other way unusual.

As OotS readers we receive new story elements one page at a time and it's natural to expect those to be self-contained but at this point of plot complexity they can't possibly be. No one would read a novel one page at a time and complain about how a particular page was just filler to move the story along, but OotS episodes are very much like pages in a novel and it seems only fair to treat them as only part of a narrative rather than stand-alone strips.

Plus
my buck

[Osterbaum]

Conclusion:
One page per week sucks.

[Amake]

Conconclusion: Waiting and reading a bunch of updates in one sitting rules.

[Aerozord]

They can't be constantly spectacular. You'd get bored and things would get silly as the writer has to look for ways to up the ante with every update

Dr McNinja begs to differ

[Arhra]

Ah, 'tis a sight to warm the cockles of your filthy goblinoid hearts.

HAIL GOBBOTOPIA!

[Mirai Gen]

I love that he's basically just spinning propaganda. "I've decided we're not calling it Azure City. So now we have a city, an anthem, an animal, and so forth!"

[Loyal]

I like that the list of humanoids extends well past the end of the panel.

[Aerozord]

shame its low rez, I cant read the text in the book

[edit] 20 years, great grandchildren? thats some short life span

[Mirai Gen]

[edit] 20 years, great grandchildren? thats some short life span

Goblins.

[Loyal]

If I remember correctly, the average lifespan for a goblinoid is only about 30 years, so 10 year maturity sounds about right.

I suppose that raises the question of just how old Redcloak is, though.

[Nuklear Waste]

War & XPs lists him as 54, although the ages given to characters besides the core 3 (Roy, Haley, Elan) have been fairly inconsistent. Based on SoD, he was like 16-21 when he first donned the Crimson Mantle, and 34 years have passed between then and strip #001.

[Locke cole]

And it's because of the magic within the Crimson Mantle that he's lived as long as he has without dying of old age.

[Arhra]

While I think of it, the Yellow Musk Creeper is the best flower.

It lures you in with mind altering pollen, then eats your brain and turns you into a plant-zombie.

It's lovely.

[Eltargrim]

So apparently the OOTS store sells "I Prepared Explosive Runes" thongs. Thongs.

[Jagos]

ONLY IN AMERICA!!!

[Loyal]

I guess... in a way it kinda makes sense.
though I suppose that would make more sense as a tattoo--no forget I said anything
Pelvic thrust anyone?

[Mirai Gen]

I'm willing to bet someone mentioned it and four hundred million people pandered him for it.

This is pretty much what happens every time Jeph Jaques makes a shirt. But, that's pretty off topic.

[Meister]

I thought the "terrorist attack" Redcloak is talking about was related to something the Elven spec-ops from #670 had done off-camera but now it occurs to me he probably just means Vaarsuvius. Duh.

[Aerozord]

yea it seemed like more propaganda. And you know he is playing that whole "injured while fending off this assult" angel with his eye. Elven terrorist attack will get alot more support then ticked off PC

[DFM]

Explosive runes thong is an excellent trap.

[Jagos]

yea it seemed like more propaganda. And you know he is playing that whole "injured while fending off this assult" angel with his eye. Elven terrorist attack will get alot more support then ticked off PC

Well, I don't think he quite remembers V as the same person that attacked him before. Let's remember that V looked a LOT different from his dungeon crawling fools escapades. Add to that the fact that RC would know that the elves are the main enemies of hobbos in the area and you have the likeliest cause of the intrusion is elves.

It's going to be a real BITCH when the Peregrine team comes up and starts taking out hobbos while looking for the phylactery.

[Aerozord]

I am not saying that, but he was there for V's attack. I am sure he was well aware it was a single elven hot-head that tried to play hero and slay the big bad. Not saying he knew who V was, in fact I doubt it, just that he was aware this wasn't some organized assualt from the elf nations

[Locke cole]

Explosive runes thong is an excellent trap.

Except for the part where your crotch explodes.

[DFM]

Obv. you cast regeneration on yourself first.

[Loyal]

I'd call it a very successful trap in that case anyway.

[Aerozord]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/aerozord/Itsatrap.jpg

[Meister]

I love Rich Burlew most when he's actively trolling his own forum. :3nod:

Yes, I checked #433. And so did you. Don't even deny it.

[Osterbaum]

Yes, I checked #433. And so did you. Don't even deny it.
Well I did know.

[Mirai Gen]

I pretty much took his word for it.

[01d55]

443 is the comic with Roy falling from a very large height.
There are 2 panels and 0 hobgoblins.

[Kim]

443 is the comic with Roy falling from a very large height.
There are 2 panels and 0 hobgoblins.

Actually, it's comic 433 and there is only one hobgoblin in the mentioned panel.

[Locke cole]

443 is the comic with Roy falling from a very large height.
There are 2 panels and 0 hobgoblins.

You mean 433 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0433.html), right?

Edit:
And it has 3 hobbos. I don't know what 433 you're looking at.

[Nuklear Waste]

Uh, there's only 1 hobgoblin in panel 3. I don't what panel 3 you're looking at.

[Mirai Gen]

Uh, there's only 1 hobgoblin in panel 3. I don't what panel 3 you're looking at.
The one ten comics ahead.

[Locke cole]

OH! Right 433, panel 3.

So the one I linked to, but not the panel I was thinking of.

[Aerozord]

not that it really matters, he was just 'random hobgoblin'

[Osterbaum]

Who dies in the next panel. Or the one after that, actually.

[Jagos]

No, the one that was pissed, we dunno what happened to him. He killed a person. It's just funny that he has a brother.

[Odjn]

Except for the part where your crotch explodes.

I can see enlarge person getting a lot of use in DnD.

Especially with permanency.

[Solid Snake]

I really don't understand why I feel this way, but after rereading the OoTS archives I just have this very strong impression that the quality of the strips actually went down considerably after Roy was resurrected and the teams were reunited. Which is odd, because at the time Roy died, I was worried about the possibility that the strip would suffer immensely without him.

I don't know why I'm spoiler-tagging things that have already happened in the OoTS-verse. Probably out of habit.

[Jagos]

Quality as in artwork or quality as in story pacing?

[Solid Snake]

Quality in regards to storyline progression and character development. The entire Sapphire Guard plotline and the war between Xykon and Azure City was pretty much the highlight of the strip so far, but I also believed that the developments after Roy's death (with the party split) was well written. Roy's absence really forced some unexpected twists and turns with the characters, but nothing felt too forced.

Then Roy returned and a lot of the interesting implications I thought the previous plotlines were building towards just fell apart, and the dynamics reverted back to what we've gotten used to hundreds of strips ago. Elan reverted back to being dumb comedic relief, V basically reverted to her old self with the one rather annoying development of her familiar (I'm not a fan of the raven), nothing new is still happening with Durkon, etc. And while the OoTS has just become boring, the plotline at Azure City is even worse. I could give a damn less about Gobbotopia's political development or Redcloak's speeches or the constant teases inflicted upon us with the MiTD (just reveal what it is already.) The Azure City War plotline was phenomenal because every strip had exciting life-or-death implications, the momentum always constantly and unpredictably shifted between the sides, and the stakes were enormous. Right now I'm just begging Rich to pick up the pace and have Redcloak and Xykon leave Azure City and do something already, or have the Linear Guild show up and attempt to thwart the OoTS' plans again, or even have Girard show up and challenge the OoTS in a meaningful fashion. We've spent dozens of strips basically watching the OoTS wander aimlessly, accomplish virtually nothing, and really, everything that's happened could have been summed up in about five updates, tops.

[Jagos]

I believe it's the difference between the books and the once a week updates of the comic that has been happening recently.

Let's remember that at least for a while, we were receiving two or three updates then the story picked up in pace. With the slower pacing, we haven't necessarily seen the comic as much so we're tending to forget.

Roy - He's the leader and able to keep everything running like clockwork. He functions on V's level but keeps to focusing the entire group to the purpose at hand.

Elan - He took a few levels in badass, yes. But the boy is still dumb as rocks. He's not a leader type at all but he's the outlet for all of the "happy-go-lucky" moments.

V - He has been given the most character development recently. He's less of a blowhard who uses big spells simply as a boast of his power, being able to work within the group. At the least, he's more willing to learn how to control his temper (the raven). I believe that the biggest thing V needed was a conscience.

Redcloak - He's getting everything that he wants. Nothing could go and destroy his plans. Like anything Xykon is his strongest impediment to his plans. What I'm seeing is that his plans are going to fail, and HOW! You have the elves linked up to the resistance, Xykon, even karma swinging the other direction against RC and his misguided ideals of fairness and justice.

I won't say that the Azure City plotline wasn't phenomenal, it was brought to life with the characters that showed a lot of variety that we can't see so much because of the McGuffins being established in two separate locals. We now have to learn new characters, and force our old ones to begin their search in the new gates. But this will take time since the newest places weren't established. Hell, I want to see what's going on with Kraagor's gate and what happened to Serini.

[Kim]

I feel that Solid's complaints would be far less bothersome to him and would be less valid if Berlew could be bothered to stop being such a lazy asshole and update more frequently than once a month because Jesus Christ that is how slow it's gotten, which makes the already slow pace of the comic UNBEARABLE.

[Flarecobra]

I feel that Solid's complaints would be far less bothersome to him and would be less valid if Berlew could be bothered to stop being such a lazy asshole and update more frequently than once a month because Jesus Christ that is how slow it's gotten, which makes the already slow pace of the comic UNBEARABLE.

From what I've gotten from the OotS forums...this is because of an ongoing medical condition...

Which they're not allowed to talk about, according to this:

ANNOUNCEMENT #1: OotS updates at random. Discussion of the comic update schedule is strictly prohibited. If no news has been posted in the News section or in a sticky thread in the OotS subforum about when the next comic will or will not be posted, then no news exists. This extends to concerns for Rich's health, life, or other aspects that you are concerned about or expect may be effecting the update schedule. The comic will be here when it gets here; until then, nothing you can say will make it arrive sooner or make any news appear. In the words of the Beatles, "let it be."

Man, it's like some kind of black op thing...Kinda suspect, huh?

Source, by the way. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6496)

[Meister]

Elan reverted back to being dumb comedic relief
If you asked me to name one thing I'd change about OotS it'd be this.

[Kim]

From what I've gotten from the OotS forums...this is because of an ongoing medical condition...

Which they're not allowed to talk about

Call me a cruel and unsympathetic person, but I don't consider someone trustworthy merely on account of them being a good writer so a good ninety percent of the time I feel like that excuse is full of shit.

Even were it not, it doesn't change the fact that the lack of a reasonable update schedule hurts the comic... BADLY.

[Mirai Gen]

I've had the same problem Noncon has for some time now. And it's becoming increasingly difficult to keep interest when the action/story isn't nearly so eyeball-grabbingly intense.

And yes, Elan's return to wacky idiot role is very eyeroll worthy.

[Solid Snake]

If you asked me to name one thing I'd change about OotS it'd be this.

I'm confused: Are you advocating that Elan should have remained dumb comedic relief all along, or are you agreeing (more or less) with my position, that the hints of character growth was a positive sign and Rich's recent undoing of Elan's capabilities has hindered the story?

As for "one thing I'd change about OoTS," I'd actually have kept Roy dead. Yes, I know that's against the D+D thematics that the OoTS world seems based upon, but I've never really viewed OoTS as an exclusively D+D storyline (in part because I've never played D+D so many of those references slide by me. I like OoTS anyway because its storyline transcends the D+D setting.) And Roy's death was a powerful event that spurred serious character development and conflicts among the remainder of the party. It was interesting to explore a notion you don't frequently see in these kinds of storylines, which is: What would happen to all the supporting characters if the main character is offed halfway through the quest? I enjoyed the disintegration of ties, V's anti-social isolation and hunger for power, Haley's moral ambiguity, and Elan's forced maturation into adulthood.

Belkar developed positively as well, I'd argue that before his death, Roy was responsible for reigning Belkar in, giving Belkar the illusion he depended on that he could act as if he was completely anarchic and barbaric without actually being as evil as he wanted to believe he was. (When he was inevitably reigned in, he could just blame Roy.) Then without Roy, he needed to latch onto another justification to prevent himself from going haywire in a way that resulted in his own destruction: enter the Shojo visions.

The narrative could have been much more powerful, I think, if Roy somehow stayed dead. The group would eventually reunite and they'd have to come to terms with Roy's loss, develop a new group dynamic and march onwards to fulfill the quest. Roy's resurrection has just returned us to the status quo, but in light of recent character development the status quo of yore just feels so...unfulfilling.

Oh: I'd also have fleshed out Durkon a bit more. I'm saddened that Durkon's high point in character development terms came somewhere in the first 150 strips or so, back when he experienced the ramifications of that fling with the Loki priestess. Now he's becoming more and more a trope of dwarves everywhere, and I dunno, I like Durkon enough to feel he deserves better. I like Durkon as a rock of stability and virtue: but even those kinds of characters can have moments of doubt and struggle to maintain their values in the midst of temptations.

EDIT: Oh and, while I certainly can't speak for anyone else: I could care less about the quantity of the updates, it's the recent downturn in the quality of the writing that has me far more concerned. Honestly if Rich updated half as much, but the updates were back to Azure City War quality, I wouldn't give a damn about waiting. Hell, that'd essentially make OoTS another Lackadaisy.

[Meister]

or are you agreeing (more or less) with my position, that the hints of character growth was a positive sign
Yep, that one. I wouldn't go so far as to say it hindered the story but drawing dinosaurs in crayon doesn't seem to fit new Elan anymore at all.

What I don't mind is the update schedule and the recent plot. I figure the comics are gonna come when they come and that's enough for me as long as they're entertaining/interesting, which despite the recent lack of big events they generally are. Although as far as those last three or four episodes are concerned, if this "addressing the public" scene was to be wrapped up very soon I wouldn't exactly complain.

Whenever this topic is addressed I can't help but remember Goblins and its unfortunate decision to spend two and a half years on updates about one single quest/plotline and making half of every update panels that show a situation two seconds later than the previous panel did, and I keep thinking, yep, Rich Burlew could do a lot worse. Complain about how OotS comics recently are just filler comics that only move the story forward* all you want but at least it's moving forward.

and on that note: what else could they do, anyway?

[Zanaril]

Even were it not, it doesn't change the fact that the lack of a reasonable update schedule hurts the comic... BADLY.

The lack of author/reader communication hurts the comic badly. I get the guy wants so privacy but... can't he at least post once it a while to say "Sorry people but the next comic might be a while. *sniffle*" or "Sorry for the two week wait, new comic will be up soon."?

[Aerozord]

I do not think slow updates in and of themselves are the problem. Its that the story is going slowly AND the updates are infrequent. Back when the comics were more self contained this wouldn't be an issue, but now it takes atleast a month to move ahead a single scene. If he condenced things more, like having entire golbin nation thing done in one comic then things would be alot better. But right now he is screwing up pacing, which any good writer knows is one of the most important things to worry about

[Jagos]

The lack of author/reader communication hurts the comic badly. I get the guy wants so privacy but... can't he at least post once it a while to say "Sorry people but the next comic might be a while. *sniffle*" or "Sorry for the two week wait, new comic will be up soon."?

Main issue is when that happened, people became... snippy. No doubt he's good at a story, especially with the humor as well as defining characters. It's just that... well... He's a quiet person and that is reflected in how he runs his playground.

*shrug*

It's frustrating when we can't hear from the author and he's barely at events but I'm sure he does what he can.

[MFD]

I think the big thing about the pacing is that he's doing book pacing, not webcomic pacing, and that's been happening for awhile now. Similar complaints plagued the internet updates that became the first half of "Don't Split the Party."

[Aerozord]

lets see, this current thread started 8 months ago, and we have only gone through 40 strips by then. In that time period the only thing thats really happened is "they found out the gate wasn't there".

[Meister]

Roy got resurrected, V had a ton of character development between his return to the party and his way of dealing with divorce, we got a glimpse of Tiamat's involvement in matters, we learned the Linear Guild are unwilling minions of the fiends, we learned about Elven special ops head towards Azure City, there's a ritual of some sort Xykon is after, and the Goblins founded their own nation.

and there's also the whole thing about another world in the dimensional rift that might turn the entire story on its head or something insignificant like that

[Aerozord]

Roy got resurrectedtrue, though I kind of excluded that since both the resurrection and re-unification of the group was more the culmination of the previous arc.

Roy got resurrected, V had a ton of character development between his return to the party and his way of dealing with divorceI meant advancement in the plot, this doesn't move the story forward
we got a glimpse of Tiamat's involvement in mattersno we found out that Tiamat was upset at the death of so many dragons, which was more of a joke then a plot point
we learned the Linear Guild are unwilling minions of the fiendslearned about that before that point when she ran off to inform them about the gates in the first place
we learned about Elven special ops head towards Azure City,all we learned was that they exist, we got five panels about them and then, nothing for 7 months
there's a ritual of some sort Xykon is afterNo evidence that this is significant. Sure there are lots of rituals he researches on a regular basis. But lets assume you are right, no telling how long before that is in any way significant
the Goblins founded their own nation.We already discussed how no one really cares about this so I wont repeat it
and there's also the whole thing about another world in the dimensional rift that might turn the entire story on its head or something insignificant like thatThat is currently, like the Elven task force, currently just abit of foreshadowing and has yet to move the plot ahead

This is still moving far too slow. It took us well over a month just to get from "doesn't look like the gate is in this giant desert" to "yup the gate isn't in this giant desert"

[Meister]

Sure we don't know yet how or if any of that is significant but it all happened. (The Linear Guild one, though, true, not exactly news. Forgot all about that, my bad.)

but yeah the ritual will probably turn out to be Unseen Skull Polish Servant and the Elves will be killed by guards at the city gates and I'll be sure to check with the What We Care About Comittee next time I'm about to waste time on finding a particular plot point interesting

[Jagos]

Wait... Team Evil is at a conflict that could destroy the unity that's been ready to boil over.

First, knowing that Redcloak is all for the goblins in this regard puts him toward a fall. Xykon is less trusting of his minion, giving Tsukiko a chance to come up as a character. This may be foreshadowing but it's hardly insignificant when it all comes toward the next gate.

[Loyal]

I don't think Xykon's ever "trusted" Redcloak, per se.

Besides, after the incident with Redcloak's brother, I really don't think Xykon believes Redcloak has the balls to defy him when it comes down to it.

[edit] Hell, he probably believes that Redcloak merely thinks of "gobbotopia" as a little side-project that Redcloak had taken up just to pass the time.

[Aerozord]

its less about lacking the balls, and more about the fact Xykon is ALOT more powerful. But how Xykon feels, if I had to guess, he just simply doesn't care. He knows Redcloak needs him and wont do anything until thats changed. It is probably a realistic evil alliance. They both know the other is only helping for his own reasons and can be counted on until that changes. So its less about trust, and more about logic

[Nuklear Waste]

More Jirix, more crayons, first appearance of the Dark One online, Xykon mysteriously disappeared again, and apparently Rich didn't listen to Master Fyron's lessons in image resolution... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html)

Oh yeah, and something about Redcloak and his god.

EDIT: Aw, my lame image joke won't make any sense now. :\

[Aerozord]

I always assumed all that religious talk from Redcloak was pure propganda, I mean it still is as he didn't realize it, but his god does in fact approve and support what he's doing

[Jagos]

If he didn't, wouldn't he have just canceled his powers?

[Aerozord]

thing about evil gods is they are rather leinent on using their name to manipulate others. Remember our psycho-paladin did many morally wrong things in the name of her gods, but had to go against them to lose her powers. Seems they dont care about what you say to justify what you do. Long as it doesn't go against what they want.

[Mirai Gen]

The gods are rather apathetic about each individual person's plight provided they aren't going against what the God wants, yeah.

I liked this episode. Some real advancement, a few good jokes, and I'm liking Jirix.

[Meister]

I more and more desperately wanted someone to push Jirix off that balcony with each joke he cracked.

[Jagos]

I more and more desperately wanted someone to push Jirix off that balcony with each joke he cracked.

I thought I was the only one...

He seems charismatic and intelligent enough but I'll be dogged if he doesn't grate me the wrong way for a villain character.

[Aerozord]

atleast its lampshaded both that his jokes were corny, and he gave justification for them.

[phil_]

I liked his pathetic little jokes. He's like the only character intentionally being funny; it gave him some immediate character. At least, as much as a third-string NPC needs.

[Loyal]

I suppose it's hard to argue with an army of goblinoids anyway.

[Mirai Gen]

He wasn't funny, but it was nice to see another goblin characterized. Even terrible jokes are good character development.

[Locke cole]

In-story, Redcloak thought the jokes were kinda lame. So I think that was kind of intentional.

[Meister]

Hydra Burgers business is still going strong I see.

[Arhra]

Wow, Niu's certainly kitted out.

Think that amulet means she multiclassed to cleric as well?

[Odjn]

Wow, Niu's certainly kitted out.

Think that amulet means she multiclassed to cleric as well?

Fighter/Rogue/Cleric?

That's a pretty awful combo.

[MFD]

... Fighter/Rogue/Paladin, then?

[Jagos]

...

Rogue has one requirement IIRC, not LG. Paladin means you can't be anything but LG.

[Wigmund]

...

Rogue has one requirement IIRC, not LG. Paladin means you can't be anything but LG.

Nah, Rogues don't have an alignment requirement. But Paladins cannot multiclass unless you're using one of the many splatbooks.

This is for 3.5, I have no idea how 4th ed does it.

[Meister]

4E has almost completely done away with alignment, which is to say there are still five different alignments (Lawful Good, Good, Unaligned, Evil, Chaotic Evil; think of a scale rather than a grid) but they don't have any influence on game mechanics and you can comfortably ignore them altogether if you want.

Multiclassing is done by a feat chain that allows you to use class features and powers from one, and only one, other class (except if you're playing a Bard, in which case you can have multiclass feats for more than one other class). Any combination is valid.

[Jagos]

So yeah, this was a slow one. Funny but doesn't progress anything.

[Meister]

I very much appreciate how Burlew avoids a rather obvious "dancing wights" joke while still, essentially, making it. Also the Elves are pretty capable.

Hmmm. Some time has gone by, I wonder if O-Chul's inspiring influence on the prisoners is still in effect. Not that getting busted out by bona fide Azure City paladins isn't inspiring enough on its own.

[Art of Hilt]

Nice comic title.

[Aerozord]

I very much appreciate how Burlew avoids a rather obvious "dancing wights" joke while still, essentially, making it. Also the Elves are pretty capable.

Hmmm. Some time has gone by, I wonder if O-Chul's inspiring influence on the prisoners is still in effect. Not that getting busted out by bona fide Azure City paladins isn't inspiring enough on its own.

wasn't O-Chul the only paladin left alive in the city?

[Loyal]

Thanh is a paladin.

[greed]

I just realised something. Elan's spent about half the strip cosplaying as Locke from FF6 at this point. Just thought I'd bring that up.

[Mirai Gen]

That was just one strip, actually. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html)

[greed]

That was just one strip, actually. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html)

Well minus the hair and bandanna. He's kept the rest of the look.

[Solid Snake]

That was just one strip, actually. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html)

*sigh*
Going back to that comic led me to re-read the archives around the ~350 to ~400 mark. Back when OotS was so good.
Yeah, yeah, I know it's blasphemous to say anything considered popular has been 'going downhill,' but OotS has just seen much better days.

[greed]

New comic. I agree with eyepatch lady whose name I forget. Elves are awesome.

[Jagos]

I can honestly say, I didn't see that coming until the end. Elves are seriously awesome.

[MuMu]

The joke kinda falls flat when you remember the whole point of the Goblin Union is to survive against this kind of Elven Oppression.

[Solid Snake]

...I agree a bit with MuMu: this was actually one of the first comics where I felt genuinely sympathetic for the goblins. Really makes you wonder about exactly why we tend to automatically perceive that all elves are 'good' and all goblins are 'evil.'

[Loyal]

To be fair, it was the only responsible action to take under those circumstances. The Goblins have the 'dancing lights' system in effect, so it's entirely fair to assume that after several months of failing to crush the resistance, Redcloak would try something like this.

Whether the hobbo was, in fact, a spy, is something we'll simply never know.

[Kim]

The joke kinda falls flat when you remember the whole point of the Goblin Union is to survive against this kind of Elven Oppression.

Maybe that's the point?

[Steel Shadow]

To be fair, it was the only responsible action to take under those circumstances. The Goblins have the 'dancing lights' system in effect, so it's entirely fair to assume that after several months of failing to crush the resistance, Redcloak would try something like this.

Whether the hobbo was, in fact, a spy, is something we'll simply never know.

Responsible (and that is debatable, other methods exist) would have been a quick execution. That was just cruel.

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah Redcloak has been going about this whole 'goblinoids are oppressed people' - it's nice to see him actually right for a change.

[Si Civa]

...I agree a bit with MuMu: this was actually one of the first comics where I felt genuinely sympathetic for the goblins. Really makes you wonder about exactly why we tend to automatically perceive that all elves are 'good' and all goblins are 'evil.'

This.
And also, elves are dicks.

But you can't have sympathy to goblins when they all look the same; it's hella lot easier to hate masses than individuals. It's even kinda annoying to me some times that all the humen look somewhat different to each other but goblins don't, but it's understable that making everything to look different would be more, more, more work than anybody would really want to do.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I once had a party nearly get killed by an entire town after killing that town's beloved adventuring party of goblins when they met them in the dungeon.
Protip- put other adventuring parties running around dungeons, it only works once but it hilarious and alignment challenging.

[Loyal]

Responsible (and that is debatable, other methods exist) would have been a quick execution. That was just cruel.

Conceded.

[Aerozord]

as you know I'm no DnD player. But isn't this completely justified because, all goblins are evil and there really is no such thing as a good one excluding DM intervention

[Bard The 5th LW]

I believe it has been said that OotS is only based off of DnD, so in this case, it isn't entirely justified, as Goblins in their universe may actually have potential for a non-evil alignment.

[Mirai Gen]

as you know I'm no DnD player. But isn't this completely justified because, all goblins are evil and there really is no such thing as a good one excluding DM intervention

IIRC, if you look under the Monster Manual under every category almost every monster says "usually evil." The ones that say "always evil" are like, devils and demons. I'm pretty sure goblins are in the former category, and even then, it only says that "always" means 99%, and there's always a 1%

Even still, party knowing they're in DND regardless, this was utterly fucked up. The guy could not have been imprisoned for no reason.