The Order of the Stick Megathread

[Meister]

Order of the what?

The Order of the Stick is an excellent fantasy webcomic, available over at www.giantitp.com. It's got simple stick figure visuals and makes fun of D&D rules a lot. It also has a suspenseful story, very good characterization and outstanding pacing.

The Order of the Stick is a group of adventurers tasked with protecting the five gates that hold together the fabric of reality. They're up against the undead sorcerer Xykon and his associate Redcloak, a goblin cleric, who want to use the gates for their own evil purposes. So far they only managed to destroy three of the gates between them.

Recent events:

- Vaarsuvius made a deal with evil outsiders to gain ultimate arcane power to save his family from a black dragon. He held on to it for a whopping 20 minutes and, in that time, managed to kill about a quarter of the planet's entire black dragon population. Then he tried to kill Xykon, which went considerably less well and pretty much only accomplished pissing Xykon of to the point where he's actually willing to head for the next gate again instead of sitting around in a city with a dimensional rift in it. Good going, Vaarsuvius.

- Although he did manage to escape with O-Chul, who had been imprisoned by Xykon for probably close to a year now. So there's that.

- The Order itself has been separated for about as long, too, and they only recently found together again. Roy is only minutes away from being resurrected so they can all have a proper reunion.

- After which Rich Burlew will probably have reached another book's worth of episodes and take the opportunity to take a break for a few weeks, making this the most awkwardly timed new thread in a while.

e: anyone who attempts to argue that Vaarsuvius is definitely male/female because another character referred to him or her as such will be publicly ridiculed. It's never more than that character's own take on V's gender.

[Mr.Bookworm]

You should probably mention the spoilers, since you guys seem to be cracking down on that lately.

Anyway, yeah, it looks like a break is imminent. The bad guys are getting ready to move, the Azurite refugee problem has been solved at least temporarily (the one good thing V did, even if it was out of annoyance), and the entire gang is finally getting back together.

[Meister]

Yeah, try to avoid spoilers when a new comic has just gone up. The last few pages of the old thread (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=33905) are a pretty good guideline.

[Mirai Gen]

It hits me now that O-Chul might be a little annoyed at Belkar.

Also I love that Hinjo and Lien needed to be there, so they were. Burlew likes to break the fourth wall.

[Fifthfiend]

Yeah, try to avoid spoilers when a new comic has just gone up. The last few pages of the old thread (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=33905) are a pretty good guideline.

You should OP the thread guidelines somewhere prominent.

[Mr.Bookworm]

It hits me now that O-Chul might be a little annoyed at Belkar.

Also I love that Hinjo and Lien needed to be there, so they were. Burlew likes to break the fourth wall.

I don't think that was fourth wall-breaking. They get magically transported to a new island, and they don't know how (well, Kasumi and Daigo do, but they probably haven't talked about that to Hinjo yet). Lien and Hinjo, the two most powerful members of the group, go off to explore the island.

[MFD]

I'm curious as to why V and O appeared there. Did the Monster send them there, meaning that he is somehow connected to that old Elven Fortress, or did Exit just bring O-Chul (with V) to his liege? Like, Hinjo was the target of the teleport spell?

[Mirai Gen]

I don't think that was fourth wall-breaking. They get magically transported to a new island, and they don't know how (well, Kasumi and Daigo do, but they probably haven't talked about that to Hinjo yet). Lien and Hinjo, the two most powerful members of the group, go off to explore the island.

Oh! I hadn't thought about that. Good point.

[Aerozord]

I am still wondering if there is a spell/feat/artifact/whatever called escape. We still dont know for sure the monster did it. It seems obvious forshadowing but I dont think he is above tossing in a red herring

[Jagos]

His eyes did brighten when he said escape. As well, his text got bigger. I'm betting money it was our Monster, especially because now he's sleeping.

[Aerozord]

but is escape anything? calling your attackes (err... teleports) is a trope Order of the Stick imploys almost always

[Mirai Gen]

In DND? No, but that wouldn't stop Burlew.

[krogothwolf]

I'm sure its the monster, the roaches never lie!

[Meister]

We still dont know for sure the monster did it.
as far as we know, dragoon doesnt have the need to breath
While we're at it, maybe when the creature talked to Haley and Belkar, there would have been an earthquake anyway and he just happened to stomp the ground at that exact point in time. And he never punched Miko and her horse through the wall - he really touched her as lightly as he could, and she launched herself through the wall to escape. She could have had a magic item for that.

[Aerozord]

as V would quickly point out. There is a vast differance between hitting something really hard and warping space-time with your mind

[Meister]

Okay, I'll bite. Who else could have done it?

[Aerozord]

well I do not know for certain, its not like there is much info of it. The ground-pound and hitting Miko are vastly different on two accounts from the teleporting. First being, they said the monster did it. After being hit through a wall Miko didn't say "oh how'd I get outside" she said "that thing hit me". The other is that things with insane levels of physical power also dont typically have arcane spells as well.

I am not saying he didn't do it, just that I dont accept 'him wanting it to happen' as being the same as making it happen. To me what will really be evident is if its explained in the near future. If not it was probably the monster, or some bigger gambit done by someone else like the IFFC. He wouldn't leave it unanswered unless it was part of some big reveal. In that situation the monster would be the most logical choice, as other options would require indirect assistance

[Meister]

After being hit through a wall Miko didn't say "oh how'd I get outside" she said "that thing hit me".
She actually (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html) didn't (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html). We see her agreeing to the creature's game, then it cuts to the aftermath, then she rides away. No one describes the act itself, so while we assume he hit her through the wall, technically it's not necessarily what happened. See the problem with this kind of argumentation?

The other is that things with insane levels of physical power also dont typically have arcane spells as well.
Which is why it's such a big deal and why Burlew makes such a big point of showing it.

indirect assistance
Now, you got something there. Maybe there's some outside entity doing this. This entity would have to be responsible for everything impressive the creature's done so far for the narration to be consistent, but it's a possibility. Otherwise the reveal would be like:
Gasp! The Monster is really a Muscle Dragon, which everyone knows has a strength score of 100!

... and also has an epic pixie wizard following him around fulfilling wishes! Gasp! Again!
which, narratively, doesn't flow as well as if it were just either of the two.

This is not such a bad theory, come to think of it...

[Mirai Gen]

I can see either side argued for but I'm skeptical to doubt the way that Burlew set it up. While most spellcasting fits into "Teleport!" and "Fireball!" I don't think he's stated that spell-like abilities work the same way, which means "Escape!" was just the MITD wishing really really hard, and the word is unrelated.

Outside intervention, maybe the FCCC? I guess? I doubt he'd do Deus Ex Machinae and have someone completely new save V and O-Chul.

[Meister]

I dunno, if those guys had been able and willing to get V out of there they would have done it sooner, and they wouldn't even have considered the paladin. Unless doing it this way fit into their long-term plan somehow, but personally I don't feel it.

[krogothwolf]

All signs point to the Monster. Awake, Eyes Glowing as if casting, Yelling out as spell is unleashed, Roaches glaring at him afterwards. Then 10 minutes later, poof, he's sound asleep.

[Aerozord]

whether he did it or not I hope sleeping isn't a result. It just seems lame to have it be a side effect when so far we have never seen anyone casting any spell ever express any physical fatigue.

[EVILNess]

whether he did it or not I hope sleeping isn't a result. It just seems lame to have it be a side effect when so far we have never seen anyone casting any spell ever express any physical fatigue.

He could have been faking or more likely its because the monster is the living embodiment of ADD.

[Aerozord]

thats my guess, faking it or, heck this is a guy that had a tea party during an epic seige, taking a nap after that would seem pretty in character to me

[Mirai Gen]

I dunno, if those guys had been able and willing to get V out of there they would have done it sooner, and they wouldn't even have considered the paladin. Unless doing it this way fit into their long-term plan somehow, but personally I don't feel it.

It was really my only assumption if outside intervention was actually the case - I'm all on the ship with the MitD causing the effect.

Really it seemed like the MitD did something akin to "Go back to your friends," because Hinjo and Lien showed up at the exact same time Haley did. Also keep in mind teleport errors when you don't know where you're going.

[BitVyper]

I doubt he's faking it. He's probably tired. Not in the using-powers = immediate-need-for-sleep sense, but in the sense that using his powers is strenuous, and now the situation is passed, so being the type of guy he is, he just nods off once all the boring crap is happening. Like how you don't pass out in the last ten metres of a marathon, but once it's over, and the energy level goes down, you suddenly realise just how exhausted you are.

[Aerozord]

Now that I think about it, I can think of people that care if V dies, and people that care if O-chul dies. Though the only people that would want to save both of them are also the ones that have no idea what happened.

Completely off topic. Do you think V's master is an epic level mage? I was thinking back when they talked about him jumping in to kill the dragon. In that hypothetical scene he is pwning her while casually reading. So I wonder if this was a gross exageration or if he's a high level mage that could match or even beat Xykon

[Jagos]

Maybe not beat Xykon but more than likely after thousands or even hundreds of years of study, he's at or near Dorukan's level in regards to being EPIC.

But he probably won't help his apprentice too much since he did kick him out to get some social skills.

[Toast]

Did anyone catch the foreshadowing here in comic 543 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html)? I wasn't the first to notice this, but I didn't see it mentioned here, although it might have been in the old thread.

I'm not up on all of the 3.5 monsters, since I quit playing way back in 2nd ed., but most of the suggestions put forward as to what type of creature the monster is seem less and less plausible if the monster can use spell like abilities.

[BitVyper]

I wasn't the first to notice this, but I didn't see it mentioned here, although it might have been in the old thread.

It was. Meister brought it up, as I recall.

[Jagos]

I am entirely conviced that somehow Roy gets -2 on Int checks. How are you going to just blow off an angel secretary that can help you?

[greed]

It's up. And Roy really needs to learn to listen.

Love the Captain America joke too.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Did anyone catch the foreshadowing here in comic 543 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html)? I wasn't the first to notice this, but I didn't see it mentioned here, although it might have been in the old thread.

Okay, maybe I'm being really stupid here but I really cannot see what foreshadowing is going on in this page.

Someone explain for me, please.

[Lumenskir]

"Yeah, gee, I don't know why wanting it wasn't enough to make him escape."
"Me neither!"

Cut to: "ESCAPE!"

On the actual comic, I guess Roy's dad thinks the Evil-shift wasn't that important?

[Meister]

In 543 saying it just makes the creature seem more naive, especially combined with Tsukiko's sarcasm. It's pretty impressive when you realize he was actually talking about something he could, in fact, do (and come to think of it, doesn't this piece of foreshadowing show that he's not entirely unaware of his powers?).

Yeah, Eugene is gonna have a hard time getting into Lawful Good heaven if he goes on like this. Not even so much on the good-evil axis for relating to V's methods as much as on the lawful-chaotic axis. He destroyed a file!

Good episode again. "Highway to Heaven" kind of makes me picture Burlew angry at himself for missing a stairway joke and going with the next best thing. :p

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If V managed to defeat Xykon and became evil in the process then you can simply destroy V which is much easier than defeating Xykon as the power V had was only temporary. And also we know Xykon was pretty permanentely evil, V might be able to recover.
It similar to Lord of the Rings. They were totally afraid that whoever used the Ring to beat Sauron would become the next great evil but I would rather fight a hobbit than a heavenly being who helped make the world.

Such a view doesn't square up with DnD good alignment at all but I can see why it wouldn't phase some people.

Also: It looks like Roy is back. About time.

[Zanaril]

Good episode again. "Highway to Heaven" kind of makes me picture Burlew angry at himself for missing a stairway joke and going with the next best thing. :p
Nope, there's a comic titled "Led Zeppelin lied to us all (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html)" :p

[Mirai Gen]

Amazing how Eugene is so selfish that he really is willing to support V's endeavors into making pacts with Evil forces just so he can finally get into heaven.

Okay maybe not amazing but still, never ceases to surprise me.

[01d55]

Could you honestly say that Roy's dad wouldn't have done exactly what V did, in the same situation? The only deviation I could see is not bothering with all the stuff between killing the dragon and trying to take out Xykon.

[Amake]

I don't even know what Eugene thinks to accomplish. Giving wizards a better reputation? Keeping Roy from knowing V's evil tendencies so that the quest can continue uninterrupted and hurry up Eugene's entry to the afterlife even though it's a freaking dumbassed shortsighted plan that obviously is going to bite him in the ass later on which he should realize if he thought about it for five seconds? It seems to me he's just screwing with Roy for the sake of being a jerk. Card carrying villain style.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

He wants V to obtain enough power to defeat Xykon as V has the potential to do it whereas he doesn't think Roy will be able to defeat Xykon.
He is totally an ends justify the means kind of guy.

[BitVyper]

I think he's more of a selfish guy than an ends-justify-the-means one. Which is to say that the ends only justify the means when it benefits him.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Eh, it never came off as a big motivation to me.

[BitVyper]

He gave up on Xykon years before he died. He actually threatened the one guy who knew where Xykon was and tried to get him to take up the oath again. He then tried to hide the truth from a planetar, and only contacted Roy when he was found out. The only reason he gives one damn about killing Xykon is because it's keeping him out of the afterlife.

[Aerozord]

for his blood oath to be fulfilled doesn't one of his decendents have to do it though?

[Steel Shadow]

I take it as him agreeing with most of what V did (as obviously most of you guys don't), and deciding that whatever other consequences V was going to have to deal with, he wouldn't need a judgmental Roy on top of it. Really, what good would the file have done?

[BitVyper]

I take it as him agreeing with most of what V did (as obviously most of you guys don't), and deciding that whatever other consequences V was going to have to deal with, he wouldn't need a judgmental Roy on top of it. Really, what good would the file have done?

Oh, I agree with this TOO. I just think his main reason is selfishness. Selfishness and resentment for Roy's path in life.

for his blood oath to be fulfilled doesn't one of his decendents have to do it though?

I'm not CERTAIN, but I think it's just that he can only communicate with them (well, just Roy, but you get it), and that they are affected by the oath as well. I don't think they've ever touched how Xykon getting killed by someone else would affect the oath.

Either way, I think he's going to get turned away from Lawful/Good heaven when this is all over.

[Jagos]

for his blood oath to be fulfilled doesn't one of his decendents have to do it though?

They inherit the Blood Oath. So it's going to follow Roy then Julia before anything is said and done.

Problem is, Roy is a meatshield which most DEFINITELY father doesn't approve of. Eugene would probably want V to go and complete the Xykon main quest simply because he's a wizard.

I wonder what would happen if Roy took a level in psionics?

[BitVyper]

Even if it must be done by Roy or Julia for him to get into heaven, I'm not sure if the blood oath means one of them has to deliver the killing blow, or just 'cause his death. In the case of the latter, any scenario where Vaarsuvius kills Xykon would likely qualify, since Roy started the whole quest.

[krogothwolf]

Even if it must be done by Roy or Julia for him to get into heaven, I'm not sure if the blood oath means one of them has to deliver the killing blow, or just 'cause his death. In the case of the latter, any scenario where Vaarsuvius kills Xykon would likely qualify, since Roy started the whole quest.

I believe for a Blood Oath you have to be a direct instrument in the cause of death the subject the Blood Oath is against. He doesn't need the Killing blow he just needs to be part of the instrument that caused his death. The V situation would probably work due to V working for Roy and being in the whole mess because of Roy so it may have resolved it for them.

So is V confirmed a guy now? or is "'im" used for something else then him? Always thought "'im" meant him.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Various characters have used various gendered pronouns for V. Other people have called him "her" so it is no way a confirmation.

[Meister]

This comes up far too much and the OP has been edited accordingly.

[krogothwolf]

So I was just curious then if V actually represents something from D&D as a sexually ambiguous character or is actually just a running joke?

[Meister]

A little from column A, a little from column B. Elves in standard D&D aren't described as sexually ambiguous but it seems in OotS they most definitely are.

e: although the Book of Erotic Fantasy does mention many of them are bisexual...

[krogothwolf]

A little from column A, a little from column B. Elves in standard D&D aren't described as sexually ambiguous but it seems in OotS they most definitely are.

e: although the Book of Erotic Fantasy does mention many of them are bisexual...

Ah that makes sense then. And thank you for sharing that you enjoy Erotic Fantasy :p

Next question then, since I just started reading OOTS a couple weeks ago when I saw it linked through here. I can't remember if I read it but did it explain how long ago Xykon started hunting for the Gates?

[greed]

He found a dairy written by one of the member's of Soon and Gerard's party, the halfling girl. Serena or something. Anyway it had the locations of the Dorukan and Lirian's gates encoded in it.

Just reread past that section today.

[Loyal]

New comic.

Two words: "You're invisible!"

[Art of Hilt]

So is V confirmed a guy now? or is "'im" used for something else then him? Always thought "'im" meant him.

When other characters refer to V with a gendered third person, it is just them guessing.
Also BACK IN THE GAME
Seeing Elan's reaction was smile-worthy. By that I mean, it was worthy of having me smile at it.

[Masked Jedi]

I didn't get Elan's reaction? Is it referring to the pixellization?

Also, fuck yes Roy's back.

[Aerozord]

ok I know I comment on the least important details but, where did the towel come from?

[Art of Hilt]

I didn't get Elan's reaction? Is it referring to the pixellization?


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0025.html

[Zanaril]

ok I know I comment on the least important details but, where did the towel come from?

It's V's cape. :p

[Mirai Gen]

It's V's cape. :p

....HAHAHAHAH, oh man that's even funnier. I didn't notice that!

[Loyal]

A thought occurs to me.

Seeing as O'Chul was in the same room as V, Xykon, etc when the battle happened, it is entirely probable that he heard the whole thing regarding V's deal with the lower planes...

And since I see no real reason for O'Chul to NOT tell Roy about it (there will certainly be questions), the celestial report may be a non-issue.

[Kim]

The more this comic progresses, the more I fear that MitD is going to go evil or get killed as part of some huge misunderstanding. It is a very sad though.

[BitVyper]

Fucking FINALLY.

[Aerozord]

A thought occurs to me.

Seeing as O'Chul was in the same room as V, Xykon, etc when the battle happened, it is entirely probable that he heard the whole thing regarding V's deal with the lower planes...

And since I see no real reason for O'Chul to NOT tell Roy about it (there will certainly be questions), the celestial report may be a non-issue.

doubtful. if so that would render the whole "not listening to the angel" thing pointless

[Jagos]

But when is there something that doesn't go FUBAR?

[Masaki-kun]

My guess is, if another evil for power issue comes, the elf's gonna jump at it. Or, the lease of his soul comes with some kinda control issue. V thinks his damnation for power trade is over with and she doesn't pay until he dies. But from the fiends' whole "we want the elf alive" thing, clearly they get some secondary benefit if she continues on with the team. Besides the possibility that he catches a Detect Evil and doesn't have a lead sheet a-la-Belkar.
*that whole pronoun thing... I really wanna just guess male cause of the whole arrogant mage thing but I also bet if I do, someone will wanna call me out on it, possible Burlew himself.

[The Wizard Who Did It]

*that whole pronoun thing... I really wanna just guess male cause of the whole arrogant mage thing but I also bet if I do, someone will wanna call me out on it, possible Burlew himself.
The most arrogant people I knew in HS were female, without a doubt.

Also, hey, the comics going to keep moving onward at a steady pace! Rock on!

[Aerozord]

hopefully Xykon taught V a valuable lesson that there are no shortcuts, and power without knowledge is worthless. But more likely what V will take away from this is clearly he was just weakened from losing one of the souls and otherwise would have crushed him. Because as we all know arcane power is the answer to everything, and if it ever fails clearly you dont have enough of it.

[Jagos]

My guess is, if another evil for power issue comes, the elf's gonna jump at it. Or, the lease of his soul comes with some kinda control issue. V thinks his damnation for power trade is over with and she doesn't pay until he dies. But from the fiends' whole "we want the elf alive" thing, clearly they get some secondary benefit if she continues on with the team. Besides the possibility that he catches a Detect Evil and doesn't have a lead sheet a-la-Belkar.
*that whole pronoun thing... I really wanna just guess male cause of the whole arrogant mage thing but I also bet if I do, someone will wanna call me out on it, possible Burlew himself.

It could be that even though he's lost the meld, somehow it's still attaching time to him. This should be interesting.

[Meister]

New episode up.

Awwww.

[krogothwolf]

Haha, Roy is so out 10 gold

[Amake]

Well, that was fulfilling.

...What do we say about a comic when there's nothing to complain about, no plot threads hanging and no concern for the immediate future? I guess we should hope Burlew doesn't stall out. But if he's taking a summer break as some people suggested it looks like the perfect time for it.

[Solid Snake]

...I didn't get the whole 'seven weeks' thing. Are there only seven weeks left in the 'year' in which Belkar is predicted to be killed?

[Loyal]

I would assume that to be the case, yes.

[Jagos]

Something tells me that this death will not go as Roy seems possessed it will. when has anything ever gone right for any of the characters?

[Solid Snake]

I've always thought Belkar would be forced to endure the ultimate irony of a heroic demise. I really could see Belkar dying within the established timeframe as planned (anything else would be a copout,) yet Belkar's death being a terrible thing for Roy and OOTS. Like, V goes completely evil, Belkar is (somehow) the one hope to defeat V before V incinerates Roy and company, and then Belkar fails. I think Roy would have reason to look at his past comments with regret in that hypothetical situation.

(And no, I haven't given up on the possibility of V turning evil just yet. Just because he/she failed with his/her superpowers, doesn't mean the entire plotline was for naught. Something's changed in V, a fact the demons watching him/her with great interest must be aware of.)

[Mirai Gen]

I get the feeling Roy was just shooting in the dark. He did say "Well, let's see" before guessing seven weeks.

I think it was a 'I'm going to guess just cause,' that way after a certain amount of time he can just kick Belkar out and let the rest of the problem solve itself.

[Ryong]

I'm going with a crazy theory. Belkar had less than a year to live, not exactly a year. Maybe he's dead in the metaphorical sense, seeing as he has changed his ways?

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah, that's what you'd think, except Burlew probably figured that was going to happen. Oracle's real prediction was "Belkar will breathe his last breath - ever - before the end of the year" or something akin to that.

[Jagos]

That's more a copout than actually killing him.

[Aerozord]

yea the oracle seemed to try and make it clear he will die and stay that way. The last breath thing clears out things like resurrection, and he also used less direct things to indicate he will die

[h4x.m4g3]

I just realized this was strip 666, felt compelled to point that out.

Oh and I'm just gonna say undead (possibly mindless) Belkar. I mean there's gotta be some undead (other creature/mutation/outsider) type that doesn't have to breathe and can't enjoy birthdays. Just because I want to go against the grain.

[Loyal]

So, V with a ponytail. I wonder why s/he decided to go with it.

[Zanaril]

I imagine long loose hair and fireballs aren't a desireable combination.

[Mirai Gen]

Timiat calling on six lines for the FCC was hilarious.

"YOU GAVE HER THIS POWER AND SHE DID WHAT?!"

I am intensely curious to know that, if getting V to even be Evil for a few hours all together wasn't the plan, then what could they/are they going to do to make her turn evil during their possession of her?

Burlew makes me jealous.
So, V with a ponytail. I wonder why s/he decided to go with it.
Cause Burlew got bored of drawing traditional V, probably.

[Solid Snake]

I'm just glad Durkon finally got a scene for some character development.

Also, OOTS is one of the best webcomics ever, probably up in my top 5 along with the likes of Dr. McNinja and 8BT, and I'm pleasantly surprised at how it's maintained its high quality throughout its run. (But you already knew that.)

[Aerozord]

I am intensely curious to know that, if getting V to even be Evil for a few hours all together wasn't the plan, then what could they/are they going to do to make her turn evil during their possession of her?


I dont think they actually give a crap about V's soul. If V goes too far down the evil alignment then bonus, but it would be just that, a nice consequence for what they really care about. Whatever that may be

[Jagos]

They've already said it. It's the gate. Think about it, they take possession of him JUST as they go to the gate and...?

Seriously, that seems to make the most sense at this conjecture.

[Mirai Gen]

I thought it was a "After he died", although the fine print saying that we take over your body in the meantime is certainly compelling.

[Aerozord]

normally this stuff is, get your soul after you die, though that has so many flaws. They have more powerful souls for one, and they cant really count on V dying when they want for another

[Jagos]

True, but they didn't want him to die from the sounds of it. Instead, they wanted V to live and promote the IFCC agenda. From the sounds, this next gate is when they make their move.

[Masaki-kun]

The idea that the time he owes them his soul might not be after his death seems like the most logical thing. They picked Vaarsuvius cause, out of all the wizards out there, he's the most likely to show up at a gate, save Xykon who's got too much sense to let fiends mess with his shit. I'm really happy for him realizing that, yes good came out of that soul splice, but in all, V fucked up. Going all evil for power was a mistake.

[Meister]

Looks like my interpretation of how much time each one would get was wrong after all. Good to see that cleared up, though. Also, hooray, Western gods!

[The Argent Lord]

Timiat calling on six lines for the FCC was hilarious.

Five lines. One for each head.

[Aerozord]

I'm really happy for him realizing that, yes good came out of that soul splice, but in all, V fucked up. Going all evil for power was a mistake.

It was more like the way he used that power was a mistake, not that getting it was. V was complaining about her use, not getting it

[Meister]

New comic.

Some exposition and the Linear Guild! Well, a picture of them.

[Jagos]

True but three are dead. I kinda noticed they were X'ed out.

At least we know that this next arc is about them in some way.

[Meister]

For me personally the Linear Guild has been Nale, Sabine, Thog And Varying Associates for a while now, but I guess it settles Hilgya's status* at least (although I fully expect a theory along the lines of "Zz'dtri and Hilgya haven't been confirmed dead, does that mean Yikyik isn't dead either since they're all crossed out the same way" to pop up).

"status: taken out of the picture" rather than "status: dead", I mean

Regardless it's about time for a return, last time we saw them was just a few episodes after Roy died. I'm looking forward to seeing if they hire some new cannon fodder, we could use a few new NPCs.

[Aerozord]

I dont know, I think what with Nale's last evil twin switch thing the Linear Guild may have jumped the shark

[01d55]

Here's something I'd like to know

Which of the IFCC fiends are lawful/chaotic/neutral?

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Call me crazy, but wasn't Tiamat one of the gods that Snarl killed?

As I recall, there were the 4 Panthelons of each domain, and when Snarl broke free the first time, it killed the gods of the Southern Panthlon.

[Nuklear Waste]

Here's something I'd like to know

Which of the IFCC fiends are lawful/chaotic/neutral?

The only we can safely assume is the yellow one (Lee, thus lawful evil; not just that, but also his mannerisms: Telling V the alternate method, not telling Qarr that V was just "the next customer" like the others, dealing with Tiamat, etc.). But he provided the seemingly chaotic evil soul splice and works directly with Sabine, so who knows. It's possible that Lee and Cedrik (I'm guessing the orange one) take control of souls/fiends with the other's alignment to showcase fiendish unity or something.

EDIT: The Snarl killed/unmade the Eastern pantheon, which was based on Greek mythology (Zeus and co.). The Southern gods are the twelve zodiac animal dudes. Tiamat is one of the Western/Mesopotamian gods.

EDIT2: I'm also guessing that Nale and the IFCC still count as different "sides" that the demon-roaches mentioned.

[Jagos]

Call me crazy, but wasn't Tiamat one of the gods that Snarl killed?

As I recall, there were the 4 Panthelons of each domain, and when Snarl broke free the first time, it killed the gods of the Southern Panthlon.

No, Zeus and the Greek Gods were slaughtered. The Southern Gods, which Roy is a part of (to a lesser extent, and a reason why he was the only southerner seen in the afterlife without all of the Northerners) were spared.

[BitVyper]

But he provided the seemingly chaotic evil soul splice

Eh, he doesn't have to be chaotic evil to take the soul of a chaotic evil person.

[Odjn]

Here's something I'd like to know

Which of the IFCC fiends are lawful/chaotic/neutral?

The one that went to college is probably lawful. He was seen hanging around with Duke (which specializes in law if I remember) guys.

[greed]

I'm gonna guess yellow is the demon, the caster he brought to the splice seemed pretty chaotic, "Tear down creation just to see if you can".

Edit:Incidentally Orange was the one who went to college, and his splice guy did seem lawfulish what with being all about conquering. So yeah he's probably the devil. That leaves Purple as the Neutral Evil one.

[01d55]

I asked elsewhere and apparently they all have a name:
Lee
Nero
Cedric

Mystery solved!

EDIT: It was on their goddamn business cards in the very first strip they all appear together in. How did I miss that?
Also, I've been misinformed as to which one is which - the yellow one is Lee.

[Jagos]

So:

Lee
Nero
Cedric

[01d55]

I haven't found the strip that identifies Cedric or Nero, can you link it?

For reference, Lee is called out here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html).

[The Argent Lord]

I haven't found the strip that identifies Cedric or Nero, can you link it?

For reference, Lee is called out here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html).

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html

EDIT: Oh, I see, that doesn't show who has what card. I'll leave it up anyway so people who didn't find that strip have the link.

[01d55]

It isn't possible to determine which card is held by which fiend.

[Meister]

I'm about 80% sure that someone's worked out which is which but I'll be damned if I can remember where. Probably on the OotS forums or on somethingawful.

So, looks like Vaarsuvius, Belkar and Durkon won't make it through this story alive. Obviously it's been pretty clearly spelled out for each of them, but there's also the fact that the core of the Linear Guild is the evil counterparts of Roy, Elan and Haley. I dunno, kinda stating the obvious but it just occurred to me seeing that picture on the wall, and it makes me wonder how that will come to pass.

[Jagos]

Actually, I'm going more by the way they were introduced.
Yellow Guy
Orange Guy
Purple

The next comic shows who is bringing who so by my logic:
Lee brought Jephton (arcane flexibility) -> CE
Nero brought Ganonran (world conqueror)-> LE
Cedric brought Haera (necromancer) -> NE

[Loyal]

Yeah, but if we buy that, then we assume that their names have no significance whatsoever.

L.E.e, C.E.dric, N.E.ro.

[Jagos]

Well Lee was the one talking to Tiamat. And Tiamat (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Tiamat_(DnD_Deity)) is aligned with LE or NE...

I have to assume the names are more a red herring than anything else.

Kinda like V's Gender, Giant might be running with it.

[Mirai Gen]

I dunno about that. This-
L.E.e, C.E.dric, N.E.ro.
-is probably some of the best reasoning of their alignments/names ever. I have no idea why Burlew would pick those names on accident other than because he didn't.

EDIT: Also I still have no idea why exactly it is that they were keeping score of V's soul-timer "for their purposes" when the entire point was to just get things moving with X vs the OOTS.

[Jagos]

Well, if Lee was the one to be LE, why is "Nero (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html)" the one in college?

If we already know the yellow one as Lee, since they did retire to his domain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html)...?!!

Well damn, the comic got changed.

I guess Rich wants it to be that it's just as the names say.

-Edit- Actually, I found where they named Yellow Lee: Linkage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html)

And if everything else holds up, the names may not correspond with alignment.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Yeah Lee is named as the yellow one there.
But you don't have to be lawful to go to college or have the others go back to your house. Those really aren't alignment definers. The only clue we have at all is what kind fo souls each lent out for the splice, alongside the names which are pretty solid.

[Pip Boy]

The succubus keeps him "abreast" on the latest information.

I just got that pun.

[Jagos]

Yeah Lee is named as the yellow one there.
But you don't have to be lawful to go to college or have the others go back to your house. Those really aren't alignment definers. The only clue we have at all is what kind fo souls each lent out for the splice, alongside the names which are pretty solid.

But Lee can't be LE if he brought a CE mage to the Soul Splice. He doesn't have access to that plane and Ganonron seemed more the conqueror and LE type than Jephton.

[Meister]

Do we actually know the three souls' alignments or is that as much speculation and conjecture as the fiends' alignments are?

e: Also, I propose that this discussion is missing the point; which fiend has what alignment isn't as important as the fact that the three evil alignments are working together in the first place.

[Zanaril]

The succubus keeps him "abreast" on the latest information.

I just got that pun.

And works under him. :cool:

[Mirai Gen]

IIRC sex is something demon/devils just use to exploit mortals. But that's even more off topic than this whole discussion thus far.

Back to my old point, why did they say that the soul-timer was 'enough to suit their purposes.'

[Aerozord]

normally I wouldn't nit-pick about this, but I find it odd everyone misspells Cedrik

[Jagos]

IIRC sex is something demon/devils just use to exploit mortals. But that's even more off topic than this whole discussion thus far.

Back to my old point, why did they say that the soul-timer was 'enough to suit their purposes.'

It's to do with the next gate. They control V for X amount of time and that can either get the gate destroyed and even MORE mayhem and carnage ensues or they take over so that no one else can keep the gate. Just so long as no one else gets to use the gate or keep control, that seems to be their main agenda.

[Aerozord]

well re-reading it, then never said "after you die" but I wonder what "get your soul" and "spends time with" means. Is it assumed you have to die? If you can still alive does that mean they control your actions? Will they simply be able to snatch V away at some critical moment? ect

[Jagos]

There wouldn't be a reason to snatch him away from the action. I'm thinking they control his actions involuntarily.

[Geminex]

I would assume that by controlling his (relatively pure) soul, they can make him open the next gate?
Of course, I'm not entirely certain what controlling his soul lets them do, but if they can actually influence what physical actions he takes, I'd assume that that's the first thing they'd have him do.

Also: Why is it sudenly "he"? Did I miss something?

Also also: This webcomic is almost excessively awesome. Just wanted to throw that out there.

[Meister]

Also: Why is it sudenly "he"? Did I miss something?
Just convenience. It's better than going around typing "he or she" all the time when that isn't even the point.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Just pure speculation here, but they suggested that the souls they control cannot cast spells without a proper host, right?

What if they activate their contract, remove V's soul from its mortal shell and put it somewhere in their little domains of control, and then put one of the spirits they control into it?

Hell, why stop at one. They can redo the entire soul splice if it's practical, without the spell wards that zapped V when he warped into the tower, and with the Necromancer added to their spells those three might just be able to take out Xyklon.

[Mirai Gen]

Which is what I was thinking they would do, since they never specifically said when they would get his soul, or precisely what the terms of 'getting his soul' meant.

If V wasn't in such a rush (both of desperation and of power) he'd have thought about that.

[Aerozord]

Just pure speculation here, but they suggested that the souls they control cannot cast spells without a proper host, right?

What if they activate their contract, remove V's soul from its mortal shell and put it somewhere in their little domains of control, and then put one of the spirits they control into it?

Hell, why stop at one. They can redo the entire soul splice if it's practical, without the spell wards that zapped V when he warped into the tower, and with the Necromancer added to their spells those three might just be able to take out Xyklon.

better yet, why stop at 3, they didn't want to give V too much power, but its possible they could have spliced more if they wished. Though there are a few reasons that might be iffy. It seemed V's will is what kept them bound to the body, Possible you need a living and willing host to do the splice

[01d55]

They were pretty clear that their claim to V's soul starts as soon as she dies. My guess is they plan to pump her for information, since I doubt she'd be terribly useful as a soul splice (after all, they'll have recovered the much more powerful guys they spliced to V).

[Zanaril]

They were pretty clear that their claim to V's soul starts as soon as she dies. My guess is they plan to pump her for information, since I doubt she'd be terribly useful as a soul splice (after all, they'll have recovered the much more powerful guys they spliced to V).

No, they specifically didn't. And when V mentions when she thinks they'll take her soul, the fiends change the topic and never confirm what she thinks.

[Odjn]

New Comic!

I expected some plot honestly.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Really didn't like that one. Burlew in over his head.

[Meister]

First panel is gonna get the "but kids are reading this" crowd up in arms again, and I approve.

[Jagos]

I take this as a calm before the storm. You have to see what everyone is fighting for before the big action commences. Sucks that he's portraying mortal beings as a violent species simply because but eh...

[Aerozord]

this WOULD be a good and deep philisophical look at how things like ressurrection and definite knowledge of an afterlife affects ones morals and thoughts of death, if not for the fact they react more or less the same. There are times where the logic shifts, where it is wiser to leave someone to die since, as Roy points out, as long as someone makes it out they are fine. But beyond that there is no real differance. Death is still feared and killing is a serious crime. She exagerated about people killing on sight as the only people we've seen that would kill for such arbitrary reasons as the same amoral people that would do it in the real world.

I respect the attempt, but I think it falls flat

[Mirai Gen]

I'm not going to go jump into a big philosophical debate, buuuuuttttt...

But beyond that there is no real differance.
Except that he specifically says (And it happened back while he was still dead with the evil adventuring party) that magic often can take you to that dimension.

So you know it's there and you can visit it with high-level magic.

EDIT: Also his major point was that you can get resurrected with enough money, IE death is reversible.

[01d55]

this WOULD be a good and deep philisophical look at how things like ressurrection and definite knowledge of an afterlife affects ones morals and thoughts of death, if not for the fact they react more or less the same. ... But beyond that there is no real differance. Death is still feared and killing is a serious crime. She exagerated about people killing on sight as the only people we've seen that would kill for such arbitrary reasons as the same amoral people that would do it in the real world.
DnD nerds frequently speculate about the alterations that a definitely known afterlife and the possibility of resurrection make to moral calculations and social norms. In this strip, DnD characters speculate about how the absence of these things would effect moral calculations and social norms.
Yet these calculations and norms are roughly the same in our world and theirs.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/zorrodeltaco/thats_the_joke.jpg

[Aerozord]

I'm not going to go jump into a big philosophical debate, buuuuuttttt...


Except that he specifically says (And it happened back while he was still dead with the evil adventuring party) that magic often can take you to that dimension.

So you know it's there and you can visit it with high-level magic.

EDIT: Also his major point was that you can get resurrected with enough money, IE death is reversible.
I think you missed my point. their views on killing are the same. Not their views on the afterlife
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/zorrodeltaco/thats_the_joke.jpg

then I take back my comment and replace it with this.

It was just an attempt to do faux philosphy by drawing comparisions that show the amorality of humans as a whole. Which considering the over all lightheartedness of the story and the execution it fails. Which is a shame because I could atleast respect the attempt if he wasn't just trying to be ironic

[Kim]

It kinda reminded me of when XKCD tries to do deep romance stuff and it just falls on it's face.

[Mirai Gen]

faux philosphy
Um. Alright?

[Arhra]

I think you missed my point. their views on killing are the same. Not their views on the afterlife

then I take back my comment and replace it with this.

It was just an attempt to do faux philosphy by drawing comparisions that show the amorality of humans as a whole. Which considering the over all lightheartedness of the story and the execution it fails. Which is a shame because I could atleast respect the attempt if he wasn't just trying to be ironic
You... Brain... hurt.

The joke is that D&D has the certainty of an afterlife and judgement and yet people's views on killing at the same despite that they probably should be influenced by it!

[Mirai Gen]

It was my understanding that the 'joke' was "Skill Points," myself.

EDIT: Also seriously calling a one-comic discussion of philosophy directly related to the matter at hand 'deep' is kind of looking into it quite a bit.

[Zanaril]

I thought (one of) the joke(s) was that they seem to be theorizing what a world like ours would be like... then assume it still has magic. :p

[Loyal]

This was a comic with a joke?

I thought it was just two people relaxing and trying to catch up with their lives before going back to adventuring.

[Zanaril]

This was a comic with a joke?

I thought it was just two people relaxing and trying to catch up with their lives before going back to adventuring.

That as well.

[Aerozord]

I think the fact we are discussing what the heck it was should say something about its execution

[Mirai Gen]

I think the fact we are discussing what the heck it was should say something about its execution

Who's 'we'?

Pretty much just you.

[Aerozord]

well what? I think its a bad comic. They talk of people in the setting not caring about if people live or die but we have seen they do. Even seen concern over the afterlife because although they know its there they dont know for certain what their fate is and little of the details of what happens on the otherside. Then the "joke" of how if people didn't come back and if they didn't know, like our world, then, haha maybe it would be different. Which, I just fail to see any humor in it. Mostly as the setting mirrors the real world intentionally with things like the concept of an afterlife, war, etcera. Worst of all it had no plot advancement, strickly talking about what we already knew, all of which after FINALLY getting a single storyline down after about a year of trying to keep track of 4 different plots.

[BitVyper]

I think its a bad comic.

And the fact that people disagree with you about this makes that true? That's pretty much what you said.

[Loyal]

Again: It's not a comic with a joke. It's not an attempt at philosophy. It has no deep-rooted meaning that we are far too plebian to comprehend. It's not trying to do anything. It's just two people talking with each other before they part ways, and the conversation is about the afterlife because one of them has no afterlife, and the other one just came back from his.

Furthermore, humor does not mean "side-splitting hilarity, or it fails." It's just as often used as a means of lightening the mood.

[Mirai Gen]

well what? I think its a bad comic. They talk of people in the setting not caring about if people live or die but we have seen they do. Even seen concern over the afterlife because although they know its there they dont know for certain what their fate is and little of the details of what happens on the otherside. Then the "joke" of how if people didn't come back and if they didn't know, like our world, then, haha maybe it would be different. Which, I just fail to see any humor in it. Mostly as the setting mirrors the real world intentionally with things like the concept of an afterlife, war, etcera.

Dude, nobody is talking about this.

[Kim]

Has Roy been especially philosophical on the nature of their world before and I just don't remember it, or is this a sudden case of 'Let me talk for an entire comic about how things would be different if people were unsure about the afterlife and how people would be happy and nice and free; only that is in no way the case HA HA THAT'S THE JOKE.'

[Amake]

The nice thing about really good characters is that they can do things outside of their preconceived character attributes. I suppose the speech is the sum of being dead for a while and thinking about things. Anyone with a balanced Int score would do the same really.

I think it's a nice piece of writing, adding just a little bit of beliveability to the world and its people.

As for Roy's theory, I think it's an interesting thought experiment that in no way construes any critique of real world behavior. This is not a world where we know for a fact there is no afterlife, actually I'm guessing we kill each other so much partly out of curiosity.

[Kim]

The nice thing about really good characters is that they can do things outside of their preconceived character attributes.

Poorly written characters can do it, too.

I'm not saying the characters are poorly written, this big old speech just didn't seem particularly entertaining, interesting or amusing in any sort of way, and the whole thing doesn't seem to fit Roy, in my opinion.

I guess part of my problem with it is also that it doesn't really seem to be something that somebody just comes up with then and there, and the fact that at the end he's all, "But my philosophy that I just spent a whole comic explaining is probably dumb because..." makes me inclined to believe that he'd have to make it up then and there.

[Mirai Gen]

People having concepts about death and afterlife isn't exactly out of character.

[Meister]

Maybe returning back to life after a year has passed since you've been taken out of the game by your undead nemesis in the middle of a fuck-off great battle will do that to you.

Although I'm not gonna lie to you, I don't think this episode does anything more or less for me than occupy the space between #668 and #670.

[Aerozord]

Now that I think about it, shouldn't SHE be the one thats ok with killing according to Roy's little speach. She knows that oblivion is what awaits her if she dies, and she knows a just afterlife (and potential ressurrection) awaits them when they die. Isn't it logical for her to kill everyone to save her very existance and litterally let god sort out the victims.

[Loyal]

No, because then everyone else would have the same train of thought, and an entire Outsider's existence would consist of a bloodbath in a futile attempt to save oneself.

[Kim]

No, because then everyone else would have the same train of thought, and an entire Outsider's existence would consist of a bloodbath in a futile attempt to save oneself.

No more so than with the mortals.

[Aerozord]

No, because then everyone else would have the same train of thought, and an entire Outsider's existence would consist of a bloodbath in a futile attempt to save oneself.

look at it as a comparison

If she chooses to die rather then kill them, then her very existance is nullified.

If she chooses to kill them rather then die, then she continues to exist and at worst they get what they deserve in the afterlife.

As Roy said her reluctance is based on the fact that killing someone ends their existance, but in the mortal realm thats not true, only her death is the end. She would lose everything is she died, while if they died justice would be served by whatever afterlife they are destined for. There is no reason for her to care about killing them and many reasons for her to care if they kill her.

[Art of Hilt]

She comes from an existence in which killing each other is avoided, because you are guaranteed to go 'poof' whether you like it or not.
It's a form of culture shock to see mortals killing each other wily-nily. The woman didn't even know that humans couldn't conduct their own electricity, so it's understandable that she stick to her psychological roots and habits rather than adapt them entirely for the battlefield, which would be more than foreign to her.

Besides, what if someone comes back from the dead for revenge?

In any case, she's not sticking around to risk being erased forever, kill or no kill, so I'm pretty sure this is a non-issue.

EDIT- This is all ignoring the obvious reason for her not to kill everyone, of course, ie- she's a normal person, not an adventurer. But I guess we're talking in terms of 'The Outsider' as opposed to 'This Specific Character' here, so yeah, okay.

[Aerozord]

but if you use humanity as an analogue example. Her way of thinking should not be "killing is always wrong" it should be "killing outsiders is wrong". As they name implies she is an outsider, she has no reason to apply the value of an outsiders life to that of a mortal, especially since they know for a fact which is more important. Even in DnD there were examples of this. Like Gods would think twice about killing a mortal for the greater good, I remember someone saying before even the elves thought little of human lives since from their perspective "well he'll just die in a few decades anyways"

[Art of Hilt]

she has no reason to apply the value of an outsiders life to that of a mortal

Considering that she's constantly applying values of an Outsider's biology to a mortal without realizing it, I think it's safe to say that she- as a character- has a habit of keeping the Outsider mindset even if it isn't appropriate for the situation. Even if she were to become aware of the difference afterwards, there will always be that little bit that would stay with her.

Besides, the value of a person's life isn't something that is so easily calculable, even for lawyers. A person has been taught that death means oblivion all their existence, it isn't really that simple to start considering the alternatives, even if the proof of it is having sex with you off-panel.

You could argue, as an Outsider, she should have a certain mindset, yes, but as a character- with her traits and experiences- it's easy to see why she thinks the way she does. For this particular character, to allow killing sometimes would just be too difficult psychologically, even if it is okay practically.

[Mirai Gen]

Isn't it logical for her to kill everyone to save her very existance and litterally let god sort out the victims.

Yeah, you guys have fun with that.

[Odjn]

I don't really like Haley anymore. Is she Chaotic Neutral or something now?

I actually like Celia despite her flaws because well, if people actually tried things her way ( and not just the bad guys ) Redcloak's village wouldn't have been slaughtered, goblin persecution would have never gotten off the ground, etc.
What Rich is trying to get at is someone who is really Lawful Good- that is, she adheres to the law and is generally good. Granted she did some dumb things- running off to Greysky city- but a lot of the time if Haley would learn to not keep secrets from her allies and tried to be super vague, Celia would probably not have gone down there.

[Toast]

I still do, and I see no reason to consider her as chaotic neutral. She's gotten a lot more realistic/pragmatic during her time as leader. Yeah, it probably wasn't a good idea to leave Belkar to his curse when he could have helped her out, but that was a bad call and people make bad calls from time to time. That and he wouldn't have had as good an opportunity to go through his vision quest and have a moment to be a total bad-ass if she didn't.

but a lot of the time if Haley would learn to not keep secrets from her allies and tried to be super vague, Celia would probably not have gone down there.
I don't know, being told that going to a certain place is a bad idea by a world-traveling adventurer would have said to me that that person had probably been there and it wasn't a good idea, so maybe I should avoid going there. That's just common sense talking.

I actually like Celia despite her flaws because well, if people actually tried things her way
they would likely get killed or captured. Just think of how well Celia's philosophy would have gone over during the siege of Azure City.

[Krylo]

they would likely get killed or captured. Just think of how well Celia's philosophy would have gone over during the siege of Azure City.

Or how it DID go during the thief's guild attack.

[Solid Snake]

Eh, my opinion is that this was a mediocre strip that Rich Burlew almost intended to be mediocre. It's a technique often used, in which the characters essentially take breathers for a chapter (or three) and we're saddled with extraneous information. We may not like to take a moment off from the adventure, but a breakneck pace just isn't feasible. If epic plot development in the form of violent conflict is always happening in every waking moment of OOTS, we'd quickly lose our interest in the heart and the soul of the strip, which is its believable and likable characters. The characters gain immensely when they have moments to expose their small quirks and character traits.

If nothing else, this was a nice moment for Roy to have that shows us how he interacts differently with his love interest than with the team members we're accustomed to seeing him with. I strongly disagree with those who believe this is an out-of-character interaction for Roy. Yes, this is 'out-of-character' in the sense that 99% of the time, Roy would be far too pragmatic to indulge in such thoughts. However, he's just returned to the living from the afterlife...that's bound to put a philosophical bent in anyone's logic, no matter how short-lived...and he's also just had a profound, cathartic experience with the woman he loves. For Roy to subsequently feel a moment's introspection seems in character to me, actually, and it does slightly increase my respect for the character, insofar as the author has not left him a flat, underdeveloped series of stereotypes. Like any other human being, Roy has moments where his submissive or subordinate personality traits briefly overtake his dominant persona. (We all do the same...the quiet introvert has a night of socially adept tomfoolery, the battle-hardened warrior becomes a huge softy while talking to his daughter about her dreams, etc.)

[Odjn]

I still do, and I see no reason to consider her as chaotic neutral. She's gotten a lot more realistic/pragmatic during her time as leader. Yeah, it probably wasn't a good idea to leave Belkar to his curse when he could have helped her out, but that was a bad call and people make bad calls from time to time. That and he wouldn't have had as good an opportunity to go through his vision quest and have a moment to be a total bad-ass if she didn't.


I don't know, being told that going to a certain place is a bad idea by a world-traveling adventurer would have said to me that that person had probably been there and it wasn't a good idea, so maybe I should avoid going there. That's just common sense talking.


they would likely get killed or captured. Just think of how well Celia's philosophy would have gone over during the siege of Azure City.

Um? If the gods had shown concern for the lives of the non PC races, there'd be no Redcloak or Dark One. If the humans had listened to the Dark One and worked something out peacefully, there'd been no reason for him to set his followers out to manipulate the Snarl. If the paladins had realized that hey, maybe murdering sentient beings is wrong unless they were a quasi threat and accepted goblin existence and offered them some farmland and stuff to build their civilization, Redcloak's village wouldn't have been massacred and he would've never created Xykon. Etc, Etc.

Wow, it looks like maybe murdering people on sight leads to a lot of trouble. But sarcasm aside, Celia is too naive for the Xykons of the world but for any reasonable non-psycho evil guy would probably prefer less death overall.

Or how it DID go during the thief's guild attack.

You mean once the two unreasonable members were out of the way, negotiation won the day?

Also, I'm pretty much referring to little incidents and Haley killing Crystal, which in itself is not an evil act but she specifically used Crystal accepting her as an ally to murder her. That is either neutral or evil; definitely not good.

[Krylo]

You mean once the two unreasonable members were out of the way, negotiation won the day?

You mean the negotiation that only worked because they had killed so many thieves guild members already? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0620.html)

And even then only after she broke down and got violent to intimidate them? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0617.html)

AND all this after she got captured and was generally of no help whatsoever because of her pacifism? The whole thing could have been resolved much more quickly if she had been slightly more pragmatic and rained lightning death down upon everyone in the first place.

[BitVyper]

rained lightning death down upon everyone in the first place.

That was specifically pointed out to be a bad idea as I recall. *Evasion*

[Krylo]

That was specifically pointed out to be a bad idea as I recall. *Evasion*

Only after Haley was run through leaving Celia outnumbered 2 to 1 against the two highest level thieves.

Also, this was by Roy, who was slightly biased against Celia risking herself, to the point of hoping for Celia to leave Haley outnumbered when she was obviously losing the battle she was in until Celia drew off a portion of the attackers and fled.

Now if instead of that she had flown up against the ceiling and rained lightning while Haley mopped them up on the ground, Haley wouldn't have been outnumbered against Crystal and Br...whatever...

[Toast]

Or how it DID go during the thief's guild attack.
You mean the negotiation that only worked because they had killed so many thieves guild members already?
You kind of already said what I was going to reply with.

Um? If the gods had shown concern for the lives of the non PC races, there'd be no Redcloak or Dark One. If the humans had listened to the Dark One and worked something out peacefully, there'd been no reason for him to set his followers out to manipulate the Snarl. If the paladins had realized that hey, maybe murdering sentient beings is wrong unless they were a quasi threat and accepted goblin existence and offered them some farmland and stuff to build their civilization, Redcloak's village wouldn't have been massacred and he would've never created Xykon. Etc, Etc.

That's an awful lot of 'ifs'. Don't get me wrong, I see the point you're making. In most circumstances diplomacy is the best option. Right up to the point where it fails.

Also, while I probably could have made myself more clear, I thought the last line of my previous post made it clear I was referring to Celia's valuing of pacifism and life over self-defense.

For instance. Wow, it looks like maybe murdering people on sight leads to a lot of trouble. I can get behind this, because it does cause a lot of trouble.

You mean once the two unreasonable members were out of the way, negotiation won the day? This, however, I have an issue with. Self-defense is rarely unreasonable, and certainly not in this particular instance.

AND all this after she got captured and was generally of no help whatsoever because of her pacifism?

This is what bugs me most about Celia. She's a damsel in distress, which is the last thing any story needs. Reading through this story arc with her has been like watching a horror movie with a lingerie clad woman who's about to do something stupid and you yell at the screen "don't do that, you moron!" And then she does it anyway. And then you sigh and lament that the author couldn't think of a better role for a woman to play other than being scantily clad and doing something stupid.

[Odjn]

You mean the negotiation that only worked because they had killed so many thieves guild members already? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0620.html)

And even then only after she broke down and got violent to intimidate them? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0617.html)

AND all this after she got captured and was generally of no help whatsoever because of her pacifism? The whole thing could have been resolved much more quickly if she had been slightly more pragmatic and rained lightning death down upon everyone in the first place.

She was captured by Hank something or other who immediately goes into negotiations because he's reasonable. If his intent was to murder Celia he would have done so immediately. In fact, his first statement is "You owe us some magic items." As in, he wants to do it peacefully even from a position of power. From Celia's negotiations, they get the Thief's Guild assistance in retaking Roy's bone golem body. Since it took Crystal, Bozzok, Haley, Belkar and the fighter guy to do it, and Crystal and Bozzok got beaten up a bit (and they're equal/4 levels higher than Haley) that is probably indicative it would have been extremely difficult for Haley to do that otherwise. Granting that Haley needs gold for her dad, she would be upset at sharing loot and that Bozzok apparently got her father imprisoned. However, she doesn't need money to get her dad freed- she has an adventuring party of moderate levels, most of whom (Roy, Var, Elan, and Durkon) would gladly assist her, and Belkar, who could be convinced for treasure. Haley is secretive even when it's for her own good to tell others- it's not like telling people and letting them make informed decisions is a good thing, right?

Bozzok is evil 'cause he wants power and will do pretty much anything to gain it. Crystal's just a psycho. They're the two highest level (apparently Hank isn't so tough) NPCs, which means that they could probably slaughter all the other rogues by themselves. They have no choice. The thieves guild knew it would lose members by sending them to fight Haley, because she was decently leveled before she left and by Crystal's advance in power they knew she had been leveling. Hank, who is again reasonable, would see this and try to negotiate before conflict. Unfortunately he's not top dog, and the dude who is needed to be incapacitated before negotiation is possible.

It is unlikely even with Celia's aid Haley could've won against an equal level rogue/assassin and a +4 level (at least level 19) rogue/possibly fighter?
Celia has six HD. If she had casted, anyone with a bow could've taken her down easily.

[Aerozord]

Unfortunately he's not top dog, and the dude who is needed to be incapacitated before negotiation is possible.


which was done how? oh yes, by violance. The problem with negotiations is they only work if none of the parties goal is "gut them like a trout"

[chaospet]

Has Roy been especially philosophical on the nature of their world before and I just don't remember it, or is this a sudden case of 'Let me talk for an entire comic about how things would be different if people were unsure about the afterlife and how people would be happy and nice and free; only that is in no way the case HA HA THAT'S THE JOKE.'

That's the joke, but it's also a bit thought provoking. Why ISN'T our world that way? Possible Answer: lots of people in our world actually do think they have absolute knowledge about the nature of the afterlife.

[Kim]

Actual answer: Because people are greedy by nature and will kill each other for money, or land, or whatever regardless of beliefs about the after life and this page was stupid and why hasn't the fucker updated to a page I'll actually give a damn about yet.

[Mirai Gen]

I suppose the reason this comic never bothered me is because, since it follows a storyline, the conversation seemed in character for Celia and Roy.

It isn't like XKCD where he decides, today I'm going to do romance/philosophy/vaginas! and then uses his avatars to speak out the 'joke' to no real comedy or thought provocation.

[chaospet]

Actual answer: Because people are greedy by nature and will kill each other for money, or land, or whatever regardless of beliefs about the after life and this page was stupid and why hasn't the fucker updated to a page I'll actually give a damn about yet.

Even assuming that's true, that doesn't really answer the question. Whatever people's motivations are, the fact is that they take considerable risks when they engage in warfare. If everyone was uncertain about the afterlife and thought there was a likelihood that this is it, that there is no existence beyond life in this world (as opposed to the certainty that most people seem to have that there is an afterlife, that they know exactly what the afterlife is, and that they're going to reap its benefits) it does seem likely (or at least plausible) that people would be less willing to take such risks.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Even assuming that's true, that doesn't really answer the question. Whatever people's motivations are, the fact is that they take considerable risks when they engage in warfare. If everyone was uncertain about the afterlife and thought there was a likelihood that this is it, that there is no existence beyond life in this world (as opposed to the certainty that most people seem to have that there is an afterlife, that they know exactly what the afterlife is, and that they're going to reap its benefits) it does seem likely (or at least plausible) that people would be less willing to take such risks.

Yeah it would be nice if we all sat around with little scales weighing each thing up based on various degrees of imperfect information and then once we have worked out the optimal path take it. People tried that in the 19th century, it failed atrociously.

[Aerozord]

That's the joke, but it's also a bit thought provoking. Why ISN'T our world that way? Possible Answer: lots of people in our world actually do think they have absolute knowledge about the nature of the afterlife.
there is a reason religion is the number one cause of war.
Actual answer: Because people are greedy by nature and will kill each other for money, or land, or whatever regardless of beliefs about the after life and this page was stupid and why hasn't the fucker updated to a page I'll actually give a damn about yet.

Even assuming that's true, that doesn't really answer the question. Whatever people's motivations are, the fact is that they take considerable risks when they engage in warfare. If everyone was uncertain about the afterlife and thought there was a likelihood that this is it, that there is no existence beyond life in this world (as opposed to the certainty that most people seem to have that there is an afterlife, that they know exactly what the afterlife is, and that they're going to reap its benefits) it does seem likely (or at least plausible) that people would be less willing to take such risks.

War is an evolutionary trait. Its simply in a groups best interest to have a military. Eventually your society will grow beyond its ability to support and expand. In both ancient and even more in modern times, you venture out to find someone else is already there. Humans rose to the top of the food chain by killing what was higher. You talk about risk to your life, well thats the reason. Believe it or not humans are not as concerned about themselves as people think. Your average human being cares about friends, family, and sometimes complete strangers more then themselves.

Lets say you are an ancient human in Africa. There is a lion pride nearby that you are competing with for food, and in addition to that occasionally your people are its food. You have an option try and manage sharing your food and hope the supply hold out, or pick up a spear and risk death to give your children a better chance at survival.

Soldiers do not fight so they can win, they fight so their people will win. You are not risking your life so you will get more stuff, you are risking your life so 100 people will have a better life

[chaospet]

Soldiers do not fight so they can win, they fight so their people will win. You are not risking your life so you will get more stuff, you are risking your life so 100 people will have a better life

I agree with this; altruism and preservation of the group is unquestionably a motivation we have evolved. So is greed, as NonCon noted. And so is self-preservation. My claim is only that deeply ingrained beliefs about the afterlife can help to quell the self-preservation instinct, and thus make risky behavior like warfare more commonplace than it might be otherwise.

[Aerozord]

I disagree. In fact I think belief in an after life has the opposite effect. As I said you are risking your life, but you are risking it because if your gamble succeeds your own life is better and at times longer for doing it.

If you believe there is no afterlife then this life is all you get. Then shouldn't you be doing all you can to enjoy and extend it as much as possible? You are low on food, if you die thats it you stop existing, but you like existing, so you kill your neighbor and take his. But oh no, then you are an amoral dick, well what do you care. Not like you will be judged on it. All that matters is the now, and in the now your willingness to kill, cheat, and steal has made you wealthier then anyone else and given you a life span thats longer. Granted many of their life spans are shorter because of that, but its still valid.

Thats for the "humans are selfish dicks" end. But you can apply the same logic to doing these things for the benifit of all. Plus there is the nihilist arguement, both your suffering and that of others shouldn't matter because in a few decades it will be moot.

Roy would have actually made a good point if instead of saying "you dont like killing because dying means you dont exist" he said "you dont like killing because you are an unaging eternal being that doesn't have to fight over limited resources" This was the massive flaw of her point. People were not killing because "someone looked at them funny".... well not the mentally stable ones, they were killing for their invested interests. Thieves guild for example were doing it for the sake of the group, and by extension themselves because it was in their best interest to kill Haley, and only stopped because they found it was in their best interest not to kill her. Both were completely rational and logical, not based on whims or personal opinion of the target

[Professor Smarmiarty]

People don't go to war to lose. People don't play the lottery to lose.
It really is as simple as that.

[chaospet]

If you believe there is no afterlife then this life is all you get. Then shouldn't you be doing all you can to enjoy and extend it as much as possible? You are low on food, if you die thats it you stop existing, but you like existing, so you kill your neighbor and take his.


Your point only applies in cases where the choice is between going to war or dying. Obviously you're not really risking anything if you know you're going to die soon even if you don't go to war. My claim was about those cases in which you actually DO take a risk by going to war - which is the typical case, not the exception. In those cases, if you remove (or mitigate) the fear of death with the guarantee of an afterlife, then you remove a major motivational obstacle that might otherwise keep many from engaging in warfare.

[Aerozord]

Your point only applies in cases where the choice is between going to war or dying. Obviously you're not really risking anything if you know you're going to die soon even if you don't go to war. My claim was about those cases in which you actually DO take a risk by going to war - which is the typical case, not the exception. In those cases, if you remove (or mitigate) the fear of death with the guarantee of an afterlife, then you remove a major motivational obstacle that might otherwise keep many from engaging in warfare.

in that case your personal morality and opinion doesn't matter. This is how war works in the real world

Leader: "We are going to war"
Soldier: "Why?"
Leader: "Because I said so"
Soldier: *sighs* "I'll get my gun"

War makes perfect sense as those that decide it aren't the ones risking their lives. A king does not go out on the front lines, he never risks his life. While the soldier, assuming he hasn't already been properly made into a drone, is filled with propoganda about how its best for his nation that he fights. Wars are not about one human killing another, they are about shot to kill ratios

[chaospet]

War makes perfect sense as those that decide it aren't the ones risking their lives. A king does not go out on the front lines, he never risks his life.

Fair point, though it is somewhat less applicable in nations (like ours) that have volunteer armies. And it's no coincidence that religion is so heavily pressed in the military (see the recent high profile cases of atheist soldiers and the sorts of discrimination they endured). It's a timeless strategy for obtaining and retaining soldiers - convince them that they're doing God's work, and so if they die in glorious combat they'll be assured a lovely spot in the afterlife.

[Aerozord]

most people do not join the military to go to war, most join because its garenteed work and will pay for college. Seriously do you think your average soldier enlists just so he can kill a complete stranger?

[BitVyper]

Since when are people even remotely rational, since this conversation seems to be assuming that?

[Aerozord]

no its assuming their chooses have a degree of subconsious reasoning behind it. Humans instinctually want their group to prosper, we are a social species, but like all animals we also want competition killed. Yes many use religion to motivate their soldiers, but if it wasn't that it would be something else. Freedom/oppression, justice/tyranny, good/evil. They will use propaganda to make their soldiers think they are in the right, their enemies are in the wrong, and the world is better with them dead. A human with a healthy mind is rational. Sane people dont just up and kill someone for no good reason. But there are reasons to kill. And lets be honest, most people are sheep that automatically side with the majority.

This is conditioned into soldiers. Battles are often won or lost by a soldiers willingness to blindly follow orders. In actual war soldiers do not decide who they kill, when, or why. They kill because they are told to, and deep down thats it. But the ones that decide it, do it logically, only the most twisted and fanatical military leader kills simply for the sake of killing

[chaospet]

most people do not join the military to go to war, most join because its garenteed work and will pay for college. Seriously do you think your average soldier enlists just so he can kill a complete stranger?

Of course not, that would be a very silly claim to make. Let me be clear - I am not saying that religion is the reason people join the army or go to war. What I am saying is that religion helps REMOVE what would be for many people be a reason NOT to join the army or go to war.

[Mirai Gen]

So, is there a new comic yet?

[Kim]

Nope! Berlew decided that after putting all the work into a page where nothing interesting happens and that is, arguably, not especially good, at least when compared with his other recent work, that he deserved a two week break, apparently.

[Mirai Gen]

Nope! Berlew decided that...that he deserved a two week break, apparently.

And all was normal in the universe.

[Aerozord]

Of course not, that would be a very silly claim to make. Let me be clear - I am not saying that religion is the reason people join the army or go to war. What I am saying is that religion helps REMOVE what would be for many people be a reason NOT to join the army or go to war.

I dont know how many soldiers you've spoken with, but I've yet to talk to one that thinks he'll get a divine reward for dying in the line of duty. As was already said, people dont go to war to die

[chaospet]

I dont know how many soldiers you've spoken with, but I've yet to talk to one that thinks he'll get a divine reward for dying in the line of duty. As was already said, people dont go to war to die

I never said that people go to war to die. But yes, most soldiers (like most of the population) are religious, and thus believe that if they die in the line of duty they'll go to heaven, hence removing one of the major motivational obstacles to putting oneself in harm's way.

[Jagos]

...

Patriotism and religion don't always go hand in hand. And speaking as a mil. brat, I'd say we might wanna curb the religious talk around these parts.

[chaospet]

...

Patriotism and religion don't always go hand in hand.

Clearly not, and I have at no point said that they do.

[Aerozord]

then, no offence, you have no point at all. Even without religion we'd still have war, they'd just use some other motivators like, killing your enemy will allow your nation to produce jetpacks or if you lose we'll start using aborted fetises as money. You'd be suprised what people will believe

[chaospet]

then, no offence, you have no point at all. Even without religion we'd still have war, they'd just use some other motivators like, killing your enemy will allow your nation to produce jetpacks or if you lose we'll start using aborted fetises as money. You'd be suprised what people will believe

Of course any number of positive motivations for war would remain, as I've acknowledged. I never claimed getting rid of religion would ELIMINATE war. But religion helps to remove (or mitigate) one MASSIVE deterrent to getting involved in warfare; namely the fear of death and the instinct for self-preservation. That is my point.

[The Argent Lord]

So... how about we either make a new thread for this in Discussion or stop talking about it? Not trying to backseat mod, I just keep thinking there's a new comic. XP

[chaospet]

So... how about we either make a new thread for this in Discussion or stop talking about it? Not trying to backseat mod, I just keep thinking there's a new comic. XP

Haha sorry, I will drop it now.

[Aerozord]

there are worse things then death. Plus most holy wars are less about "fight and be rewarded in heaven" and more about "fight and kill the non-believers". Those that think they will be rewarded after death are WAY in the minority. It wouldn't even put a dent in the number of people ready to kill those evil terrorists/communists/nazi/dictators/oppressors/barbarians

[edit] its sad that posts in this thread is how many people know when its updated, to the point they want discussion to minimum so they dont mistakenly think there is

[phil_]

Well, I'd rather silence than stuff that should go in Discussion. I don't go there, you see. It's too avoid stuff like the last... five or so pages.

[Aerozord]

well I meant its sad that the update schedule is that freakin sparatic. Shouldn't need something like that

[Mirai Gen]

[edit] its sad that posts in this thread is how many people know when its updated, to the point they want discussion to minimum so they dont mistakenly think there is
Or maybe some of us are sick of this topic because it has nothing to do with OOTS?

[Solid Snake]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html

Yay!

[Amake]

Good doesn't mean stupid, apparently.

[Loyal]

O'chul has one hell of a memory.

[Zanaril]

O'chul has one hell of a memory.

The scars probably help him remember.

[Solid Snake]

Good doesn't mean stupid, apparently.

I really do appreciate the fact that Burlew manages to writes his heroes and villains intelligently, without frequently resorting to 'temporary bouts of stupidity' in order to ensure the heroes make out-of-character decisions that enable the conflict to persist. Subsequently, the plot twists seem to follow logically.

[Fifthfiend]

Yo guys someone imageshack the comic so I can read it from the far side of my office's new firewall.

[Amake]

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt262/Apicturemake/8mNrZRYEr1RceP5OgxH.gif
Photobuck'it.

[Mirai Gen]

Great comic, and I'm very curious about Team Peregrine now.

[Aerozord]

Quite nice, though wasn't Roy supposed to have lost all his memory about his time on the other side of the gate, how'd he know about his mom?

[Amake]

Some things stay with you until they day you die. And then there's things that haunt you in the afterlife. And then there's the things that continue to define your life even after a thousand deaths and rebirths. And then there's your mom talking about her sex life.

[Jagos]

I love how Haley is shown as STILL being paranoid from even the word initiative.

[Odjn]

New Comic:

O-Chul is apparently higher level than Hinjo now.

[Aerozord]

how did O-Chul though? I thought in DnD you only get exp for making a kill. All he did was not die for just about all that time. Unless he knickle and dimed exp from those few he killed during their little shows

[Masaki-kun]

Torture is worth XP now I guess?

[Mirai Gen]

Probably overcoming challenges - keep in mind they sent monsters and animals after him when he got tortured.

I love how Haley's way of asking about the Oath breaks the fourth wall.

[The Argent Lord]

how did O-Chul though? I thought in DnD you only get exp for making a kill. All he did was not die for just about all that time. Unless he knickle and dimed exp from those few he killed during their little shows

Nope. You also get XP for "overcoming challenges," so defeating Redcloak and escaping Xykon was probably a huge boost, and it can be given for plot-related reasons as well. Gathering large amounts of information on Xykon would count there.

[Meister]

Sending two groups after two gates at the same time blows some conceptions I had about the further development of the plot and the remaining length of the comic quite clear out of the water. I always took it for granted there would be two more big "Order of the Stick travels to gate" storyarcs.

[Mirai Gen]

I've taken it that to be sort of Burlew's trademark, blasting your expectations I mean.

[greed]

Sending two groups after two gates at the same time blows some conceptions I had about the further development of the plot and the remaining length of the comic quite clear out of the water. I always took it for granted there would be two more big "Order of the Stick travels to gate" storyarcs.

The North group is just Lien and O-Chul though. Chances are they'll just set things up, encounter problems and (probably knowing Burlew's tendency towards it) have romantic hijinks of some nature, all in side comics while the main focus is on Order doing their big "travel to Girard's Gate" adventure. Then we'll move onto the "the Order travels to Kraagor's gate" adventure.

Could go differently though, as Mirai said, he is pretty unpredicatable.

[Odjn]

The North group is just Lien and O-Chul though. Chances are they'll just set things up, encounter problems and (probably knowing Burlew's tendency towards it) have romantic hijinks of some nature, all in side comics while the main focus is on Order doing their big "travel to Girard's Gate" adventure. Then we'll move onto the "the Order travels to Kraagor's gate" adventure.

Could go differently though, as Mirai said, he is pretty unpredicatable.

O-Chul+magic items=horrifying.

[Nuklear Waste]

I love how Haley's way of asking about the Oath breaks the fourth wall.

OotS has a fourth wall?

[Jagos]

Sending two groups after two gates at the same time blows some conceptions I had about the further development of the plot and the remaining length of the comic quite clear out of the water. I always took it for granted there would be two more big "Order of the Stick travels to gate" storyarcs.

Team Evil MAY split up as well... Tsukiko and Jirix going to Kraagor's gate while Girard's is taken by Xykon and RC. But damn, do I agree that this can be awesome.

[Zanaril]

And it updates!

I want that raven. :cool:

[Meister]

Rich Burlew either really hates or really loves fan speculation.

Either way hoooly shit.

e: If I were Roy and planning for a battle with Xykon? I probably wouldn't rely too much on Belkar being around for it.

e2: Also, once again the potentially world-changing piece of knowledge goes to the character who makes a point of adamantly refusing to inform his comrades about potentially world-changing pieces of knowledge.

[Nuklear Waste]

I actually once speculated that everything the Snarl consumes are, in fact, preserved and that would lead to a second series (once Xykon and the Snarl were defeated) involving the old world and Eastern pantheon vs. the OotS's world.


This is...kinda similar, I guess? Damn you, Burlew!

[Mirai Gen]

I'm less upset by the fan speculation and more by the "I'm taking three weeks off - again - to hopefully get to rest and start a more reliable update schedule even though I won't."

Regardless that's pretty masterstroke to make the world-eating monstrosity turn out to not be destroying, maybe.

EDIT: I do at least like that he blatantly made it not Earth, because god only knows how much bullshit we'd have to go through if he did.

e2: Also, once again the potentially world-changing piece of knowledge goes to the character who makes a point of adamantly refusing to inform his comrades about potentially world-changing pieces of knowledge.
I think he probably will but having three panels of conversation don't have that dramatic closure emphasis like zooming out does.

I don't like V's numbingly blank stare in the last few panels, honestly. It's like everyone else is acting appropriately for the most part and after learning such a huge thing V promptly looks up and out and goes blank.

[Aerozord]

judging by how the Snarl hasn't been doing its normal, kill anything nearby, I'm guessing it stabalized into something new. Also its not really in the world, since its trapped in the fabric of reality, not the actual planet. Also also I am suprised is a pseudo-medi-evil setting they understand the concept of a planet

Sad the "will return on" thing didn't bug me, I saw it and thought. Oh so we will just have to wait about as long as we normally do. Atleast this time we KNOW it will update on a specific day

[Zanaril]

I don't like V's numbingly blank stare in the last few panels, honestly. It's like everyone else is acting appropriately for the most part and after learning such a huge thing V promptly looks up and out and goes blank.

Blank stare is V's defult expression. :shifty:

[Fifthfiend]

It just seemed really weird that Burlew would be all "OOTS WILL RETURN IN THREE WEEKS" when he could just as easily not update for the next three weeks the way he usually does.

[Meister]

Y'all gotta admit the updates came almost too quickly when V was battling getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild by Xykon.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Y'all gotta admit the updates came almost too quickly when V was battling getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild by Xykon.

Wouldn't that be purple headed stepchild? Or Red robed stepchild?

[Arhra]

The usage of the term 'like' indicates Meister was using a simile; comparing one thing to another. In this case, comparing beatings. Unless receiving serious beatings is commonly attributed to purple-headed or red robed stepchilds, there is no reason to make a change.

Alternatively, assuming V is a stepchild, using those substitutions is pointless because V is those things. It is a circular and meaningless comparison, equivalent to saying a rock is heavy like a rock.

That is all.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

The usage of the term 'like' indicates Meister was using a simile; comparing one thing to another. In this case, comparing beatings. Unless receiving serious beatings is commonly attributed to purple-headed or red robed stepchilds, there is no reason to make a change.

Alternatively, assuming V is a stepchild, using those substitutions is pointless because V is those things. It is a circular and meaningless comparison, equivalent to saying a rock is heavy like a rock.

That is all.

I was attempting to make a joke. Twas a vain attempt seeing as you killed it now,

[phil_]

No, I'm pretty sure he managed to salvage what little entertainment could be had from what you call a joke, then you had to get all jealous and be like, "nuh-uh, that isn't funny, Arhra," when he's just working with what he has. So, sir, I say it is you who murdered the joke to begin with. You then hid the body and took the joke's identity to mask the murder long enough to gather us all here. And here we are, witness to these grizzly acts, awaiting your next move. I don't know for what reason you've gathered us like this nor if we'll survive your machinations, but I do know this: you'll never get away with what you've done!

Crap, oh, and the hiatus announcement was the punchline to the last OotS.

[Kepor]

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4384/gxpxgqowrhpwhogwl6z.gif

Humorous commentary coming soon!

[Loyal]

It's strange. Now that I've been told it's on a confirmed hiatus I can't help but check the site every few hours. o_O

[Kim]

I missed something I guess, and I'm too lazy to look for what that is. How do we know that the planet is very blatantly not Earth? I mean, I'm very glad if it isn't Earth, because that sounds stupid and silly to me; I just want to confirm it.