Filler? I don't even know 'er! aka the fuck-Bleach [SPOILERS] megathread!

[Fifthfiend]

:rolleyes:

'Sup, Grimps?

[Lithp]

The best, Lithp, you're the best.

Less obliquely, you're using a concept that cautions against making new assumptions, but dead characters not being dead isn't a new assumption, it's the existing, standard operating assumption for everything involving Bleach. A new assumption would be what you're arguing; that popular hero characters who currently appear to be dead are in fact dead. Dead characters in Bleach (who aren't mooks) are always alive, therefore Occam's Razor says that dead characters in Bleach will continue to be alive.

Putting it another way, other people are saying that Tite Kubo is going to continue to write stories the way Tite Kubo writes stories, on the basis that this is how Tite Kubo writes stories. You're the one introducing the new assumption that Tite Kubo will stop writing stories the way Tite Kubo writes stories and begin writing them an entirely different way. You're using Occam's Razor to argue that the sun is going to stop coming up in the morning, on the basis that we can't assume the sun will keep coming up just because it's consistently done so for hundreds of millions of years.

So, in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about, & because you don't understand Occam's Razor, you assume that I'm the one who is misusing it.

Again: Aizen was foreshadowed to still be alive. With Yamamoto, there is no such foreshadowing. Ergo, the belief that Yamamoto will come back requires assumption without information.

Furthermore, by your analogy, a reasonable conclusion is that, since I have been alive for 18 years, I'm never going to die.

In short, you're twisting words.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So, in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about, & because you don't understand Occam's Razor, you assume that I'm the one who is misusing it.

Again: Aizen was foreshadowed to still be alive. With Yamamoto, there is no such foreshadowing. Ergo, the belief that Yamamoto will come back requires assumption without information.

Furthermore, by your analogy, a reasonable conclusion is that, since I have been alive for 18 years, I'm never going to die.

In short, you're twisting words.

Okay, lets try this a different way Lithp.
You have, at a guess lets say three, or four people here telling you you are wrong.

You are saying we are wrong.
Occam's razor says that we're right, because you being correct requires multiple incorrect marks from us, meanwhile we only need one from you.

[Wigmund]

Less obliquely, you're using a concept that cautions against making new assumptions, but dead characters not being dead isn't a new assumption, it's the existing, standard operating assumption for everything involving Bleach. A new assumption would be what you're arguing; that popular hero characters who currently appear to be dead are in fact dead. Dead characters in Bleach (who aren't mooks) are always alive, therefore Occam's Razor says that dead characters in Bleach will continue to be alive.

Current theory: They're all hiding in Rangiku's cleavage, that's why she left for real Karakura Town so quickly and why Gin shanked her right off the bat.

[Kim]

So, in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about, & because you don't understand Occam's Razor, you assume that I'm the one who is misusing it.

Again: Aizen was foreshadowed to still be alive. With Yamamoto, there is no such foreshadowing. Ergo, the belief that Yamamoto will come back requires assumption without information.

Furthermore, by your analogy, a reasonable conclusion is that, since I have been alive for 18 years, I'm never going to die.

In short, you're twisting words.

None of these characters have been confirmed dead. You are making the assumption that they're dead based on lack of information (it hasn't been shown that they're alive). However, there are two things we don't need to make assumptions about that give cause to believe these characters are alive.

1. Kubo doesn't kill good guys. I am literally unable to think of even one important, good-aligned character who has ever died. To come to the conclusion that these characters are dead, we have to make the assumption that Kubo has gone against his normal behavior.

2. If an important character's dying moments aren't shown, in practically every entertainment medium ever, then they are alive. Few things defy this trope, and Kubo certainly hasn't at any point. Believing that these characters are dead requires the assumption that this trope is being defied, something there is no evidence for.

Thus you are misusing Occam's Razor.

I know you hate being wrong, but it happens and you'll just need to come to terms with it.

[Lithp]

Edit: Okay, first of all, what's with this "these characters" shit? The only character I'm asserting is definitely deceased is Yamamoto. I haven't said jack shit about anyone else yet.

You are saying we are wrong.
Occam's razor says that we're right, because you being correct requires multiple incorrect marks from us, meanwhile we only need one from you.

No, it doesn't. It's Argument Ad Populum that says this, which is a logical fallacy. Again, this is just twisting words.

1. Kubo doesn't kill good guys. I am literally unable to think of even one important, good-aligned character who has ever died. To come to the conclusion that these characters are dead, we have to make the assumption that Kubo has gone against his normal behavior.

I have been alive for 18 years. Should this pattern continue, I will never die. Same thing. Moreover, it is not my theory that thrives in a vacuum. Yamamoto was stated as being dead. Saying that he "could" return is what thrives on a lack of information: There's nothing saying that he CAN'T come back, therefore, OBVIOUSLY, his resurrection is the logical conclusion. Yeah, I'm not buyin' it.

2. If an important character's dying moments aren't shown, in practically every entertainment medium ever, then they are alive. Few things defy this trope, and Kubo certainly hasn't at any point. Believing that these characters are dead requires the assumption that this trope is being defied, something there is no evidence for.

Yamamoto. Also, yeah, Kubo TOTALLY doesn't subvert shit. The Crowning Music of Awesome has never lied. It's not like we've had bait-&-switch villains before.

I know you hate being wrong, but it happens and you'll just need to come to terms with it.

That's kinda what I'm thinking of saying to you guys right now.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I have been alive for 18 years. Should this pattern continue, I will never die.

Thats a real bad analogy. You are a person bound by our reality.

They are characters who's lives are written by Tite Kubo.

See the contrast?

[Lithp]

Thats a real bad analogy. You are a person bound by our reality.

They are characters who's lives are written by Tite Kubo.

See the contrast?

Oh, but my being mortal or bound to reality is an EXTRANEOUS ASSUMPTION!!!!1!!1~zomgeleventy!

It's a great analogy. We know Bleach characters can die. The entire series is ABOUT the afterlife. We also know that Soul Reapers can die. But it suddenly violates Occam's Razor to assume that one is dead because it hasn't happened in the story before?

That's like saying that, despite the fact that we know humans can die, we can't say that -I- will die, because that includes too many "assumptions." Since I have never died, it's "illogical" to conclude that I will, because that violates Occam's Razor! Why, you can't just assume that I'm bound to the same rules as all of you!

Now, I hope you can understand why I'm getting just a bit annoyed. You're trying to twist Occam's Razor to your advantage at the exact same time you're saying "Kubo can do whatever he wants." That shit doesn't fly in Logic Land.

I don't see how you expect me to argue on your terms when your terms seem to be "there are no rules except for what I decide is Kubo's pattern at the moment."

[Bard The 5th LW]

I actually have to agree with LithP to the extent that I think Captain Genocide is dead. No reason for him to still be alive, and I think it was mentioned/implied/WHATEVER that his final suicide thing was a suicide thing.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but Kubo or not, he seems pretty dead to me.

Edit: wait, who is on the side that people have died? I sort of lost track.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Oh, but my being mortal or bound to reality is an EXTRANEOUS ASSUMPTION!!!!1!!1~zomgeleventy!

It's a great analogy. We know Bleach characters can die. The entire series is ABOUT the afterlife. We also know that Soul Reapers can die. But it suddenly violates Occam's Razor to assume that one is dead because it hasn't happened in the story before?

That's like saying that, despite the fact that we know humans can die, we can't say that -I- will die, because that includes too many "assumptions." Since I have never died, it's "illogical" to conclude that I will, because that violates Occam's Razor! Why, you can't just assume that I'm bound to the same rules as all of you!

Now, I hope you can understand why I'm getting just a bit annoyed. You're trying to twist Occam's Razor to your advantage at the exact same time you're saying "Kubo can do whatever he wants." That shit doesn't fly in Logic Land.

I don't see how you expect me to argue on your terms when your terms seem to be "there are no rules except for what I decide is Kubo's pattern at the moment."



No no no no no, this doesn't have to do with 'In the story Soul Reapers haven't died therefore they do not die'

This is 'Tite mothafuckin Kubo doesn't kill his popular main characters'. Logical or not, that's just how he is. If you want to discuss logic with Bleach you sort of have to accept that it's his logic because otherwise you're stopped at the door when you see people walking around on the sky.

[Aerozord]

Oh, but my being mortal or bound to reality is an EXTRANEOUS ASSUMPTION!!!!1!!1~zomgeleventy!

It's a great analogy. We know Bleach characters can die. The entire series is ABOUT the afterlife. We also know that Soul Reapers can die. But it suddenly violates Occam's Razor to assume that one is dead because it hasn't happened in the story before?

That's like saying that, despite the fact that we know humans can die, we can't say that -I- will die, because that includes too many "assumptions." Since I have never died, it's "illogical" to conclude that I will, because that violates Occam's Razor! Why, you can't just assume that I'm bound to the same rules as all of you!

Now, I hope you can understand why I'm getting just a bit annoyed. You're trying to twist Occam's Razor to your advantage at the exact same time you're saying "Kubo can do whatever he wants." That shit doesn't fly in Logic Land.

I don't see how you expect me to argue on your terms when your terms seem to be "there are no rules except for what I decide is Kubo's pattern at the moment."

Two problems, first, you missunderstand what logic is. Logic is not a concrete method of coming to a conclusion. Occam's Razor is just one method. Here is an example

You come across 40 quarters all heads up. According to Occam's Razor someone dropped a stack of them and they all landed heads up, since while unlikely it requires the singular assumption "they fell". According to statistics, some outside force came in and turned them all heads up for some unknown reason. Which violates Occam's Razor as it requires a third party and motivation for him to do it.

Both are logical responses. Following or not following Occam's Razor is not manditory for a conclusion to be logical.

Secondly you aren't actually trying to make a logical arguement, you are attemting to make a sound arguement, which require information we are presented to be accurate. There are any number of details we could have missed or not understood. Kubo does foreshadowing well because you dont realize he is doing it. Yes Aizen being alive was foreshadowed, most people didn't guess he was alive though. At the time, to many, there was no foreshadowing.

To summarize, there can be more then one "logical" answer. Logical answer isn't nessicarily the correct one. 1000 years ago it was logical to believe you sail far enough you fall off the Earth, and was illogical to think you'd end up on the other side, all because the information they had was incorrect.

DONT BRING LOGIC INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT A SHOW WITH TALKING SENTIENT PLUSHIES

[Lithp]

With this post, I'm hoping that we finally found closure.

I actually have to agree with LithP

You capitalized the P in my name. I've seen people do this before. Is this a coincidence, or is it designed to make me paranoid?

This is 'Tite mothafuckin Kubo doesn't kill his popular main characters'. Logical or not, that's just how he is. If you want to discuss logic with Bleach you sort of have to accept that it's his logic because otherwise you're stopped at the door when you see people walking around on the sky.

Case in point: This was explained some time ago as being an extension of Shunpo. That people say it comes out of nowhere is a misconception.

I never said it wasn't POSSIBLE that Yamamoto could come back to life. Anything's possible. I just consider it unlikely.

To summarize, there can be more then one "logical" answer.

Then why do I have a dozen people telling me "YOU'RE WRONG & MISUSING OCCAM'S RAZOR!!!!"?

While I agree with this, I find it important to note that just because there CAN be 2 logical conclusions, it doesn't mean that all possibilities presented are logical.

Logical answer isn't nessicarily the correct one.

For the purposes of that conversation, I was ignoring Wall Banger Asspulls like, say, the 10 Tails from Naruto. I would agree that it was illogical & I would not fault anyone for saying the people who predicted it were morons because there was never any buildup to it.

1000 years ago it was logical to believe you sail far enough you fall off the Earth, and was illogical to think you'd end up on the other side, all because the information they had was incorrect.

Actually, it wasn't logical, it was just what they believed. But I more-or-less agree with what you said. However, I take offense to the remark that I "misunderstand logic" because I said AGES ago that Occam's Razor couldn't prove a thing correct, it only applied to the validity of an argument.

[Sithdarth]

Where does it say that Yamamoto is dead? I mean in his last appearance where he did the self sacrificial hadou thing it said very specifically that his "charred body" was the catalyst and that his arm was cracked. In the chapter before after jumping on the grenade that was his own sealed power the only parts of his body that are visibly charred are his arms possibly the left side of this face and his chest. Assuming he sacrificed every bit that was actually charred that still leaves him more intact than other people that have been revived later or simply didn't die. Of course the entire thing was non-specific enough so that he could have just sacrificed the charred part of his left arm for the hadou. Just because it says you sacrifice your body (and specifically the charred parts) doesn't mean you sacrifice all of your body (or in this case all of the charred parts). When I read it the first time I really just took it to mean he gave up the arm that was holding onto Aizen's leg to the hadou which certainly wouldn't leave him in a much worse state then he is in already. Certainly not much worse than other people on the battle field.

He might very well be dead but that would be a very radical departure for Kubo who just doesn't seem to want to let any good guys die.

[Lithp]

Where does it say that Yamamoto is dead?

Given what you said & assuming the fanslation is accurate, that is technically feasible. However, I find it suspicious that a part of his body that wasn't previously injured is now pure black & cracking apart, that we have nothing more out of Yamamoto, & just generally, death to be strongly implied.

I think the closest thing to a declaration of death is where Aizen says that it "is the sacrificial hado that uses one's own charred body as a catalyst." As you note, under a certain interpretation, it can be said that it's only part of the body that is sacrificed. Obviously, I do not interpret it that way, but I will concede that this is a valid theory.

He might very well be dead but that would be a very radical departure for Kubo who just doesn't seem to want to let any good guys die.

It's gotta start somewhere if he's going to do it. Also, maybe it's not that radical. The wounds that characters have been getting have been gradually increasing in terms of how dire they are. Slashes on the torso eventually gave way to limb removal, then bifurcation, & so on. Maybe the point is supposed to be that shit is getting real?

[Aerozord]

Then why do I have a dozen people telling me "YOU'RE WRONG & MISUSING OCCAM'S RAZOR!!!!"?


because it is a specific method. It is just as logical to say the character is as alive as he is dead, atleast I'm not saying your conclusion is illogical, I am saying you aren't using Occam's Razor to reach that conclusion. Because him still being alive requires the fewest assumptions. Your mistake is that you are accepting him being fatally injured as a fact, and that the assumption is that some outside method saved him. But that is not the fact, considering the setting its entirely possible he did not sustain injury, and we have seen no evidence. So thinking he was fatally injured is an assumption since last time we saw him he was not. Occam's Razor says that the logical conclusion is he continued to be alive. We have seen people survive alot worse

[Lithp]

Aerozord, the closest that statement can narrow it down is to an interpretation of the word usage. In that case, the assumptions for "alive" & "dead" are equal: The intended meaning of the lines.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Actually, it wasn't logical, it was just what they believed. But I more-or-less agree with what you said. However, I take offense to the remark that I "misunderstand logic" because I said AGES ago that Occam's Razor couldn't prove a thing correct, it only applied to the validity of an argument.

From a modern standpoint, no it is not logical.

From their standpoint, it was. That's the point he's making.
Logic is just interpreting how we know what we know. If you know the Earth is flat, then you will obviously fall off it. That's logic.
Whether or not it actually is flat...Well, we only find that out when the next chapter comes out, don't we?


It's not that I think you're wrong, Lithp, it's just that I think you're trying to prove you have a point in an incredibly logically unsound way. And my nature forces me to try and tell you 'bout it cause I got nothin' better ta be doin with me time, ya see?

[Sithdarth]

Given what you said & assuming the fanslation is accurate, that is technically feasible.

It was translated the same way but two separate groups. That usually means accuracy.

However, I find it suspicious that a part of his body that wasn't previously injured is now pure black & cracking apart, that we have nothing more out of Yamamoto, & just generally, death to be strongly implied.

1) That part of his body was already charred black from jumping on the explosion. It was right there in chapter 395. Both of his arms below the elbows are clearly black. It looks like the left side of his face and is chest is as well but those could just be shadows. The cracking apart was obviously just part of the hadou and the black was already there. Plus the only part that is ever described as cracking at all is his arm and both translations were very specific about a cracking arm but never mentioned anything else cracking. This doesn't mean it wasn't but it doesn't mean it was either.

2) He was more than injured enough to be knocked out or at the very least useless in a fighting sense. He certainly was bad enough he couldn't move just from smothering that blast. The fact that we haven't heard anything from him suggests nothing more than he is somehow incapable of getting to the action.

3) Kubo as clearly moved on to other interesting things. Just because we haven't heard from the people in the fake town in a while doesn't mean he won't back track and show us what has been going on during the hour we've currently been experiencing. It is a common enough narrative tactic and Kubo has been using it for the past 100 chapters or more essentially since the fake town arc started with the hopping back and forth.

[Aerozord]

Just tossing this out there. I got the impression he sacrificed his arm. This is Kubo we are talking about

It was translated the same way but two separate groups. That usually means accuracy.


Actually that would be precise, multiple people can make the same mistake

sorry for that I'm really bored

[Sithdarth]

Actually that would be precise, multiple people can make the same mistake

sorry for that I'm really bored

The point is that it is unlikely. It's the best you get in science. I believe the term is intersubjective verification or at least that is the closest thing that applies.

[Lithp]

It's not that I think you're wrong, Lithp, it's just that I think you're trying to prove you have a point in an incredibly logically unsound way. And my nature forces me to try and tell you 'bout it cause I got nothin' better ta be doin with me time, ya see?

Well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

*Snip.*

So, Sithdarth, I think that you & I are pretty much agreed that what "actually" happened depends on the meaning that Kubo is intending to convey, correct?

[Sithdarth]

So, Sithdarth, I think that you & I are pretty much agreed that what "actually" happened depends on the meaning that Kubo is intending to convey, correct?

At this point nothing has actually happened at all aside from what we have been shown. Any speculation on alive or dead is speculation on a future event that has yet to occur. Since this is a work of fiction and everything comes from the mind of the author what we have is something sort of akin to Schrodinger's cat. Let's call it Tite Kubo's Troll. Yamamoto has essentially been placed in a box and we've got no idea what happens until Kubo decides to open the box up for us so that we can see. Maybe that bit of Trollonium that Kubo chucked in there with him decayed and Yamamoto died and maybe it didn't. Until Kubo decides to show us we've got no idea because we are not Kubo. See unlike quantum mechanics the world of Bleach is driven by a set of hidden variables that all live inside of Kubo's brain. So where in real life the result is simply random here it is dictated by Kubo and his propensity to troll.

Although, previous research as to the nature of those hidden variables suggests very highly that Yamamoto is alive. But of course at the same time Kubo likes to troll so who knows.

[Lithp]

I'm of the opinion that none of this alternate meaning actually occurred to Tite Kubo, & so the implications are a complete accident.

But. Yeah. Who knows?

Shit, even if I am right, he may decide to roll with this idea just to piss me off. Just like he allegedly did with Yammy.

[Mesden]

http://i27.tinypic.com/xu5cl.gif

[Lithp]

Well, that's just equal parts funny & horrifying, now isn't it?

[Arcanum]

*best .gif ever*

^^^


Also, man you guys love to argue. I don't even know who's arguing about what anymore. All I know is that it had something to do about razors and dead guys, which is enough for me to look the other way after raising a skeptical eyebrow. :)

[Ecks]

SCANLATIONS FUCKING NOWHERE!

Seriously, onemanga's going down. So, anywhere you fine folks get your scanlated manga pages? I think OM said they aren't doing anymore as of this week.

[Wigmund]

Can't find one, only thing I've found are spoilers:
Gin shanks Aizen and reveals that his sword really harbors a flesh-eating poison. Oh, he's doing it all for the lulz.

[Bard The 5th LW]

NO! I read that somewhere but it has to be lies.

Just no fucking way Kubo.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Seems Manga Fox has token Bleach off of their site.

[Fifthfiend]

SCANLATIONS FUCKING NOWHERE!

Seriously, onemanga's going down. So, anywhere you fine folks get your scanlated manga pages? I think OM said they aren't doing anymore as of this week.

It amazes me that people who totally get the no-copyright-breaking thing in every other context don't get it in this one EVEN NOW that the manga publishers are going after these sites specifically to make the point that said sites are violating copyrights. Like man, you are pretty much asking outright for help stealin' shit that the publishers are loudly sayin they don't want you stealin'.

It also amazes me that ya'll are this bad at stealin' ya shit, I mean, dang.

[Kim]

Read spoilers because I don't care enough about Bleach to wait if they're not on time. I think I like this. I mean, there's a certain level of stupid, but there's always stupid in Bleach. Plus, this does two things.

1. Fixes one of my more recent problems.

2. Aizen gets stabbed goddamn yes THANK YOU.

Now for predictions.

Aizen will survive because he's Aizen.

Nothing else really needs predicting and this barely counts as a prediction anyways.

[Fifthfiend]

Gin's sword carrying flesh-eating poison is the best thing ever, it is like Trollin': The Sword.

[Kim]

One theory that I just threw at Fifth is that Gin's bankai wasn't actually his bankai. Basically, he lies about his shikai's limits so that when he uses its full power people think its his bankai, which means he has an ace in the hole if he ever is in trouble. Everyone expects him to have a bankai, but if they think his bankai is something other than what it is, when he actually does use it, it's a surprise. This theory is incredibly unlikely, and I have no real reasoning for it other than A. Gin's a lying prick. B. Kubo likes to fuck with the readers. C. I hate Gin's bankai.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2gsq3hz.png

[Odjn]

Gin's sword carrying flesh-eating poison is the best thing ever, it is like Trollin': The Sword.

It makes up for EVERYTHING Aizen ever did!

[01d55]

I am 100% sure that the line about touching the blade was something Aizen made up to screw over Gin.

[Bells]

Gin is Aizen who is urahara who is Ichigo who is Kubo who apparently now is M. Night Shyamalan.

[Kim]

I am 100% sure that the line about touching the blade was something Aizen made up to screw over Gin.

Gin stabbed Keigo if that's true.

[Fifthfiend]

He killed Tatsuki, specifically to spite Numsie.

[Aerozord]

You can always go straight to the scanlation group FYI

anyways, loved this chapter. Gin just out xantosed Aizen. And that line at the end, classic. Part of me is hoping against hope that Ichigo rushes in just to get a "no its all cool now, we won. You can go home now"

[BloodyMage]

I'd be hilarious if this is how it ended, with Ichigo meditating somewhere else being useless.

It won't, but it'd be hilarious if it did.

[synkr0nized]

Gin is now the hero of the show, and Ichigo will have to be killed as the new super bad that Aizen had nurtured due to the hollow inside him.

[Bells]

See this is how Kubo breaks the 4th wall... everyone who said Gin's Bankai was silly would now be dead.

[Kim]

Gin is now the hero of the show, and Ichigo will have to be killed as the new super bad that Aizen had nurtured due to the hollow inside him.

This, or Aizen turning into the Key so Gin can defeat the King of Soul Society all according to plan, would make Bleach fantastically awesome right about now.

[synkr0nized]

That would be neat, too!

[IHateMakingNames]

Unfortunately, for a more likely prediction, I'm guessing we get this back.

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9248/83341082.png

Gin just had his spotlight, and unless things take a different turn and go well, no more Gin.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Oh Gin you lovable bastard you.

You always manage to out do yourself in dickery.

[Lithp]

Did Aizen actually say that somewhere in the manga? Because if so, that's awesome.

[krogothwolf]

Are we going to have to go through 4 chapters of Gin explaining why he decided to kill Aizen only for Aizen not to die now?

[Kim]

Are we going to have to go through 4 chapters of Gin explaining why he decided to kill Aizen only for Aizen not to die now?

Yes. Yes, we will. Or one chapter of that, followed by two chapters of Gin dying while we find out HE WAS A NOBLE SOUL ALL ALONG

[Aerozord]

though it is possible Gin has no real motive, and is simply a dick that likes making everyone's life suck. I can see him doing this for no reason but the satisfaction of screwing up Aizen's plans

[Wigmund]

The rest of Bleach should be Gin shanking everyone. Every victim gets their own chapter as he walks up to them, shanks and watches them dissolve while smiling at them. At the end of each chapter he crosses their name off of a list and then looks at the reader and makes a humorous comment about the next victim.

[Bells]

So, i was half right since the last episode... i'll still go with Gin only disabling Matsumoto and using some sort of Kido to conceal her presence.

Also i can't help to wonder why know. I mean, i know it's a plot device to buy Ichigo some time... But Gin could've pulled that shit off at any time.

Also just to point out the importance of timing... Gin did with a common attack what Urahara, Isshin and Yoruichi coulnd'nt do going Beserk on Aizen. That's some Badassery right there.

[Kim]

Also i can't help to wonder why know. I mean, i know it's a plot device to buy Ichigo some time... But Gin could've pulled that shit off at any time.

He was going to go after them and let them escape, if I had to guess. Aizen knew this and tried to prevent this by using his ability on Gin. Gin knew this and stopped Aizen from doing it and then shanked him.

[synkr0nized]

He was going to go after them and let them escape, if I had to guess. Aizen knew this and tried to prevent this by using his ability on Gin. Gin knew this and stopped Aizen from doing it and then shanked him.

That's what it looks like to me, too. Note their conversation's path and where Aizen's sword ends up.

[CABAL49]

It could be that Gin wanted to wait until Aizen was as powerful as he was ever going to be, just to be a bigger dick. Killing Aizen when he was in god mode would have been much more "fun" than just stabbing him randomly.

[krogothwolf]

Gin's totally going to steal Aizen's power, then shank everyone just for funnsies!

Unless Aizen planned to be killed and striking him down makes him more powerful then we could ever imagine! Aizen reminds me of Palpatine for some reason.

[Lithp]

That is possible, seeing how Aizen's form is said to be similar to Ichigo's newest transformation &, long before it showed up, Hollow Ichigo hinted that his influence would get stronger if Ichigo died.

I'm not sure how to feel about that. Why does Bleach leave me like that so often?

[Bells]

Ok, this has gone for quite long enough i would like to burst the bubble now.

Ichigo on Mullet-Hollow form has Super Regeneration that Cured the hole Ulquiorra gave him in his Chest.

Aizen said the Hogyouku has power similar to Orihime and he is now on Mullet-Hollow form too.

So... my guess is that Aizen stays out of Combat for a while, them shows up again fully regenerated...

The only things left to guess are 3 fold

1- What Gin wants?
2- Did he kill/tried to kill rangiku or did he just knocked her off to save her?
3- Will Gin try to kill Ichigo's Friends?

[Aerozord]

Ok, this has gone for quite long enough i would like to burst the bubble now.

Ichigo on Mullet-Hollow form has Super Regeneration that Cured the hole Ulquiorra gave him in his Chest.

Aizen said the Hogyouku has power similar to Orihime and he is now on Mullet-Hollow form too.

So... my guess is that Aizen stays out of Combat for a while, them shows up again fully regenerated...

The only things left to guess are 3 fold


grants this is assuming Aizen was being honest, but he did specifically say he cant regenerate

[Kim]

Aizen will survive because he's Aizen. "Because he's Aizen" is pretty much a rule at this point.

[Sithdarth]

I'm guessing the black circle thing in the middle of that giant chest hole in the last few panels is the hogyoku and I don't see why Gin wouldn't just grab it.

[Arcanum]

I'm guessing the black circle thing in the middle of that giant chest hole in the last few panels is the hogyoku and I don't see why Gin wouldn't just grab it.

This. Right here. Even if Aizen survives, Gin probably doesn't care. He just did what he did so that he could snatch the Hogyoku from Aizen. Now it just remains to be seen if he did it because he was secretly good, or if he had super mega evil ulterior motives.

[Fifthfiend]

Or just his completely terior "be a dick" motive.

[Lithp]

assuming Aizen was being honest, but he did specifically say he cant regenerate

What he said was, "This isn't high-speed regeneration," IE the Hollow power to regenerate quickly. The Hougyokou definitely regenerates him. Personally, I think he was implying that the Hougyokou's ability was superior, but that's just me.

[Arcanum]

Or just his completely terior "be a dick" motive.

That too, but I think that's a given for Gin by now.

[01d55]

Aizen will survive because he's Aizen. "Because he's Aizen" is pretty much a rule at this point.

I'm actually hoping that Gin is for reals stealing the main villain role at the last minute, because that would make this entire arc note for note a perfect rip off of the soul society arc.

[CABAL49]

If Gin was secretly good and he knew how to kill Aizen long before any of this had started, he would have

[Lithp]

I'm thinking it's either stealing the Hougyokou or making sure what he was dealing with. Both would require him to wait until he knew Aizen had absorbed the Hougyokou, at the very least.

[Aerozord]

also dont think he just plans to usurp him. If so then he'd wait for the key to be made. That or he REALLY wanted Rangiku to make it out alive and Aizen's suspicions forced his hand.

My guess is Aizen will be weakened to the point new move Ichigo can beat him.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Chapter 415 is out.

Aizen is now a butterfly.

If it weren't for the fact that Gin dies, this would be the best series ever in my eyes.

[Fenris]

:(

[Kim]

GODDAMMIT

I mean, I know I called it, but GODDAMMIT.

This is why you don't use your bankai in Bleach. Because when you do you die.

[krogothwolf]

So lame. So very lame.

[Wigmund]

Well that was anticlimactic.

So how many more issues until Ichigo and Papagami leave the Hyberbolic Time Chamber?

[Steel Shadow]

Well maybe Gin isn't Deahahahahahahah I can't even finish.

This chapter pleases me, if only becuase I kept running into people across the net saying Gin had just killed Azsien.

But yeah, for it's own merits, Ouch, that was lousy.

[Sithdarth]

I so called that as well. At least the part in the middle I wasn't so sure it would end like it did.

[Kim]

Actually, you know how we know Yamamoto is still alive? He hasn't used his bankai. That pretty much guarantees it.

[IHateMakingNames]

Gin is at least alive enough to talk about his back story and motives.

[Wigmund]

Or to distract Butterflizen with one last attack during his battle with Ichigo. That way Ichigo can win and we get some dumbass redemption thing from Gin.

[Kim]

Guys... Guys...

HE WAS A NOBLE SOUL ALL ALONG

[Aerozord]

well he's about as redeemed as he is gonna get. Atleast I hope so. I dont want Gin to be good, I want him to keep being a dick with a long term revenge motive

[Lithp]

Actually, you know how we know Yamamoto is still alive? He hasn't used his bankai. That pretty much guarantees it.

That's a point. I've just been assuming that there wasn't a clear dividing line for Yamamoto, either because his Zanpakuto is so damn old or because he'd mastered it so completely.

[Bells]

You guys are really bashing it... i got nothing bad about this episode. I mean, OF COURSE Aizen ain't goind to die yet. What did you expect?

Now, the idea of Gin being the Noblest guy around? that's a twist! I mean, nothing is confirmed yet... but the whole scenario right now is that he was playing bad guy to stay with Aizen untill he knew how to kill him, to the point where he would injure Rangiku (who we know he likes) to save face... and probably Got Kira to play along too.

Hell, of all the lame ways this could go down, this is one of the least lame roads.

Except for Butterflaizen... that's just terrible

[01d55]

You guys are really bashing it... i got nothing bad about this episode. I mean, OF COURSE Aizen ain't goind to die yet. What did you expect?

I expected Aizen to survive by having lied about His Only Weakness, because that would have been Aizen's own style and not bullshit that any DBZ heavy could pull.

Now, the idea of Gin being the Noblest guy around? that's a twist! I mean, nothing is confirmed yet... but the whole scenario right now is that he was playing bad guy to stay with Aizen untill he knew how to kill him, to the point where he would injure Rangiku (who we know he likes) to save face... and probably Got Kira to play along too.

This is the most obvious twist in the world and the only reason we ever believed it wasn't going to happen is because it is so awful our hope got in the way of our better judgement. It's akin to Mayuri turning out to be an okay guy in the end.

[Kim]

Aizen has basically turned into Frieza.

[synkr0nized]

Aizen has basically turned into Frieza.

Time for retarded transformations! (http://home.comcast.net/~synkr0nized/intarweb/006.gif)

[krogothwolf]

I'd say he's more of a Buu then a Frieza.

[Kim]

http://i34.tinypic.com/2lp1jd.png

[Bells]

http://i34.tinypic.com/2lp1jd.png

This is painfully and awfully accurate.

[Aerozord]

It's akin to Mayuri turning out to be an okay guy in the end.

what, no he isn't. They just glossed over crap like how he mutilated souls for idle curiousity. Just like Gin having a hate-on for Aizen doesn't automatically mean he's not a dick

[Lithp]

The butterfly thing was...eh. I'm still not 100% convinced that Gin is a good guy, but even if he is, granted, it's an awful twist, but does "he's just a dick" sound much better?

I second the liking of the way the fight went, though. Using the "I lied" card too many times starts to strain my suspension of disbelief. "Who said that the Espada numbers went from..." you know?

The only thing in that regard that I really have a problem with is if Gin goes down that easily.

[IHateMakingNames]

The only thing in that regard that I really have a problem with is if Gin goes down that easily.
He will. He just had his moment. Once you have your moment in Bleach, you are done.

[Lithp]

He will. He just had his moment. Once you have your moment in Bleach, you are done.

What if his moment isn't done yet, though?

[Kim]

What if his moment isn't done yet, though?

This.

Gin's motives aren't clear, and his backstory hasn't been sob-storied up enough yet. The next chapter will likely clarify the flashbacks glimpsed in this chapter, and have Aizen finish Gin off. Vice-Captain Emo may very likely show up either during this chapter or the next to witness Gin's final moments.

[Fifthfiend]

Every time I read the title of this thread, a tiny piece of me dies.

[Lithp]

Not me. Barring a few questionable scenes, I love the way that Bleach has been going lately.

[Bells]

Meh, it's too soon for me to judge this chapter. Bleach now is on Naruto trail, with every damn chapter being just half of what i really want to know...

Maybe Gin was just a Dick with a Heart of Gold. Who knows? Too early to tell. I'm just glad because every since the first arc i've been asking myself "How the hell did he manage to make Kira do what he wanted him to do?!" ... now sure, it's no surprise Gin would be able to bend Kira, since he is a emo kid and Gin a free manipulator (which actually goes to show that Kira is the perfect Vice-captain for Gin), but at the very least i know this is not a last second decision...

There was always something strange with Gin, he could either be the real Bad guy or the Dick with a golden heart, either way is fine... it was going to happen, maybe too fast?

Anyway, at least we get some back story on Gin Aizen and Rangiku...

Also, for those of you keeping tabs... Bleach Movie 4 got annouced. "Hell Chapter" is the title and you get to see it around 2012... when it gets online. On theater in japan? This december.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Now that Tite has gone full out on the trolling, I think I can finally enjoy the series completely for what it is.

The feeling is liberating.

[Lithp]

Also, for those of you keeping tabs... Bleach Movie 4 got annouced. "Hell Chapter" is the title and you get to see it around 2012... when it gets online. On theater in japan? This december.

Meh, I watched the 5th Naruto movie long before it was supposed to go online. I was also considering putting a steak knife in the oven & dismembering my groin with it. I should have gone with the latter.

But...Hell Chapter, eh? I wonder if that'll be the "Hell Arc" that Kubo wanted to do?

[Kim]

IIRC, when Gin was talking with Rangiku about how he betrayed Kira's trust, Gin said "Did Kira actually say that?" which means that Kira may very well have known about this.

[Bells]

Bleach may have it's basic Shonen Twists in there, but Kubo at least does a decent job Foreshadowing and wrapping his crap together y'know...

I mean, Aizen DID spend some time in a Coccoon-like stage and we were still surprised to see him become a Butterfly....

Now for a Fun game, guess what Butterflaizen becomes next.

[Kim]

He turns into Ichigo.

[Aerozord]

plus how many times have we seen people survive with giant holes in their chest? And thats excluding all the ones that constantly have them

[Lithp]

I HAD sort of suspected that it couldn't be as easy as "rip the Hougyokou out." I mean, that's a lame-ass cliche even for Bleach.

[Bells]

plus how many times have we seen people survive with giant holes in their chest? And thats excluding all the ones that constantly have them

And the severed arms. Don't forget all the severed arms.

[synkr0nized]

plus how many times have we seen people survive with giant holes in their chest? And thats excluding all the ones that constantly have them

"Gin, you have just turned me into a double-arrancar. I grow even more powerful."

[Lithp]

Something just occurred to me.

How the Hell does Aizen have the Hogyoku in that flashback?

[Wigmund]

He's always had it. Before he had it he had it and he loses it he'll still have it.

[Lithp]

I...what?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

He has it in the past because he's Aizen and can do anything.

[Marelo]

"Gin, you have just turned me into a double-arrancar. I grow even more powerful."

Thank you for that. Seriously.

[Arcanum]

So apparently Aizen had his own Hogyoku, and he stole Kisuke's to offer it to his own to make a double Hogyoku, which gave him the power to turn into a butterfly. Also Ichigo's back (shock awe and surprise!). Also, since this is bleach, and since Gin has only lost an arm (and not stabbed in the face) odds are he's still alive.

[EVILNess]

GODDAMMIT KUBO.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Jebus shit, how much more broken can Aizen get. How the fuck did he already have another Hogyoku when it seemed pretty clear that only 1 exists (to my memory)? yeah it explains how he knew more about it then Kisuke. But damn, really, so there's two mc guffins now...

I have to read this chapter so I can try to comprehend this new "lol Aizen" moment.

[Wigmund]

But there's no need to fear, Ichigo Deus Ex Machina is here!

[Kim]

It said "Deicide 18 [The End]". PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LET IT END

[Fifthfiend]

Fuck Aizen fuck Bleach fuck Kubo fuck Kubo's parents fuck Kubo's friends fuck Kubo's grade school teachers fuck everyone in the world who directly indirectly passively or in no way at all influenced the making of this terrible fucking comic and fuck you.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I will admit that black glove Ichigo's sporting complete with Zangetsu's chain running up his right arm is pretty bad ass though.

[Arcanum]

You guys know what's going to happen, right? Aizen's going to win, he's going to create the King's Key (or whatever the hell it was called) and go the King of Soul Society's realm and start to mess shit up there. Then everyone will have to train and get ready and stuff, and then they'll launch an invasion on the KoSS realm, just like they did with Hueco Mundo, and Soul Society before that. There it will be revealed that there's something that rules even the King of Soul Society, and this cycle will be repeated ad nausea, and Kubo will have successfully created a Manga that never ends, and people will still read it because it's Bleach and there's a small chance that something good might happen once and a while.

[Wigmund]

What I wish will happen (and it certainly won't) is for everyone in Bleach to be wiped out in this next battle except for Kenpachi, Mayuri and their lieutenants.

They decide to team up and go on a road trip chasing down hollows and whatever else catches their interest. Meanwhile, That town around the Soul Society, without the elitist prick Shinigamis around to make their life miserable, finally leave feudal era Japan and modernize.

[Fifthfiend]

You guys know what's going to happen, right? Aizen's going to win, he's going to create the King's Key (or whatever the hell it was called) and go the King of Soul Society's realm and start to mess shit up there. Then everyone will have to train and get ready and stuff, and then they'll launch an invasion on the KoSS realm, just like they did with Hueco Mundo, and Soul Society before that. There it will be revealed that there's something that rules even the King of Soul Society, and this cycle will be repeated ad nausea, and Kubo will have successfully created a Manga that never ends, and people will still read it because it's Bleach and there's a small chance that something good might happen once and a while.

I would feel much worse if I had ever paid any actual money to read it.

[Fifthfiend]

It's so great that instead of being a ballin' love-to-hate-him sociopathic douchebag, Gin is now the shittiest, dumbest motherfucking pathetic excuse for a hero ever to not suck air.

"Hey I think I'll murder innocent people on this guy's behalf, so that I can make a shitty, doomed attempt to kill him after he's become omnipotent, FARTZ FARTZ FARTZ" - Gin, every single moment of Gin's fictional existence, Bleach

[Donomni]

BUT HE WAS A NOBLE SOUL

But yeah, I am seriously wishing for these Aizenanigans to come to an end already. This shit is way too ridiculous.

I mean, I can't even bring myself to make a "Since when were you under the impression" joke about this.

[Kim]

http://i35.tinypic.com/2ewz3mf.gif

[Lithp]

It's so great that instead of being a ballin' love-to-hate-him sociopathic douchebag, Gin is now the shittiest, dumbest motherfucking pathetic excuse for a hero ever to not suck air.

It made sense to me. What didn't make sense is how he acted to Rukia way back in the Soul Society Arc.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, he doesn't have to be a moral paragon to be heroic.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Rename this thread: "Bleach thread of oh shit it's parodying itself again [SPOILERS!!]"

It said "Deicide 18 [The End]". PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LET IT END
That's only the chapter's title because the dude with the Deicidin' Katana may have kicked the bucket.

[Kim]

So, is there an actual reason Gin waited this long to turn on Aizen?

Prediction: Ichigo looks like he's won after using the Final Getsuga Tenshou after a long, drawn out fight. Aizen then uses his bankai and gets the Soul Key. Ichigo loses his powers or some such other negative side effect of using the getsuga tenshou, and has to undergo more magical training to get them back or get stronger or whatever. Then we get a Soul King Arc where we get to finally see the captain's bankais and maybe some new characters.

[Lithp]

So, is there an actual reason Gin waited this long to turn on Aizen?

His plan seems to have had 4 steps:

1. Go Bankai.
2. Grab Aizen's sword.
3. Stab him.
4. Steal the Hougyokou.

In that order, because going Bankai right in front of Aizen or right after he grabbed his sword would have set off some serious alarm bells, & he needed to be holding the blade to make sure that Kyoka Suigetsu wasn't active.

Among other reasons to not want it activated, he needed to be sure that he was stealing the real Hougyokou.

So, if I've got this right, he needed to wait for an opportune moment so that the events would go this way.

I also think Aizen left himself open, because holding your sword outstretched behind you like he did would be really awkward, & the only reason I can think of to do it would be as a way of saying, "C'mon, do it. I dare ya."

[Arcanum]

Then we get a Soul King Arc where we get to finally see the captain's bankais and maybe some new characters.

Maybe get some new characters? This is Bleach! All we get are new characters!


I also think Aizen left himself open, because holding your sword outstretched behind you like he did would be really awkward, & the only reason I can think of to do it would be as a way of saying, "C'mon, do it. I dare ya."

Umm wasn't he holding his sword in front of him, not behind him? And then Gin stepped in front and slightly to the side of Aizen, grabbed his sword casually, then used his quick-action-stabby Bankai to stab backwards at Aizen, so that he couldn't see the attack coming since Gin's body was blocking it.

[Lithp]

He had it outstretched behind him, then moved it in front of him.

It was weird & I could be reading entirely too much into it. To quote an MSN conversation:

"Do you suppose that Tite Kubo knows that the line distinguishing a katana's blade is supposed to be wavy, not straight?"
"No. No I do not."

[Arcanum]

I just looked at the page again, and it looks like he's holding it out to the side and slightly angled backwards, it's just the way it's drawn looks... weird. It's hard to tell since it's a manga but I think Aizen kind of did a sidways slash at the air to add a dramatic emphasis to what he was saying or something. I just don't think that he's holding it out behind him casually.

[Lithp]

Well, we're agreed that he did some kind of exaggerated motion & that it looked weird. In the end, that's what counts.

Am I the only one who wants Aizen to have a proboscis?

[Fifthfiend]

Well, we're agreed that he did some kind of exaggerated motion & that it looked weird. In the end, that's what counts.

Am I the only one who wants Aizen to have a proboscis?

YES

(no) :o

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Well, we're agreed that he did some kind of exaggerated motion & that it looked weird. In the end, that's what counts.

Am I the only one who wants Aizen to have a proboscis?

No, I'm kinda want him to it to.

Man it's amazing how far this manga has fallen over the chapters so far after reading the first few posts in this thread.

[Lithp]

Meh, I still like it. Once Aizen starts going on about putting Kyoka Suigetsu over the moon & controlling the whole world with some ancient monster that exists but we've never heard of before, that's when I'll bitch.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

So...

The last getsuga is looking to be a fusion between the sword and it's owner. Ichigo is hinted, possibly confirmed to be 10x more powerful then Aizen right now. And he's about to 1 hit kill him.

Anti climatic? Maybe, we'll have to wait a week and see.

[Arcanum]

Aizen probably has one more form change left. We've seen Regular Aizen, Cocoon Aizen, Mullet Aizen, and ButterflAizen. Next he's going to go 100% power ButterflAizen. In other words he's the Frieza of Bleach.

And I honestly have no idea what the Final Getsuga really is. I mean, Ichigo has no Reiatsu now, which translated is like Spiritual Pressure/Density. So Ichigo is not longer a spirit right now, which would sort of explain how his Dad was able to make babies with a human despite being (as far as we know) a Shinigami. But we don't even know if that's the negative aspect of the Final Getsuga, or if that's the real trick behind it.

So yeah, I'm just gonna stop rambling and wait for the next chapter.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

That's because He can control his Reiatsu now. That's why Gin said he's gotten stronger now. Hints why I said Ichigo is now several levels past Aizen now.

It was hinted over and over again since SS arc that if Ichigo ever gained control over his Reiatsu he'd be damn near unstoppable. Well it happened. So anti climatic end of Aizen getting getto omni slash version 6 to death here we come.

[Kim]

Keep in mind, Aizen hasn't used his bankai yet.

EDIT: I will say I enjoyed this chapter a little. I like it whenever Aizen is surprised, cuz FUCK Aizen. Also, Isshin has the bitchinest beard.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

True, Which might be pretty soon considering Ichigo's current level of power right now.

[EVILNess]

What would be more trollin'? Kubo actually making this the final arc of the series and ITS OVER REALLY SUDDENLY!!! or continuing on with the LOL-izan shenanigans.

Regardless, Kubo will go the route that will troll the most people.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

this might be the start of LOL -chigo Shenanigans if this isn't the last arc. Cause I'm really sure now that Aizen gets curb stomped from this point on.

[Donomni]

One word: FACEPALM.

Like, literally!

[A Zarkin' Frood]

But it would be a way to troll the audience. To just never show Aizen's Bankai.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

See, so many reasons why Ichigo curb stomping Aizen in the blink of an eye hyped up on several thousand grams of sugar is pretty much going to happen.

[Lithp]

What would be more trollin'?

...

Regardless, Kubo will go the route that will troll the most people.

But it would be a way to troll the audience.

So many reasons.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Said reasons haven't all been mentioned yet. Is what I should have posted there.

Some and possibly all of them being.

- This would be his 3rd/4th fight with Aizen. with his previous major opponents the 3rd time is usually the time he actually wins.

- It's been mentioned before that Bleach is nearly over. With maybe 1 possibly 2 arcs remaining. One being almost confirmed to be a flash back arc centered around Isshin.

- He was able to shut up Aizen and fly him miles away from the city and chuck him into the ground with just his strength alone. Nuff said.

[Lithp]

I wouldn't deny that a curb stomp battle is conceivable. I just couldn't resist the sarcasm.

[01d55]

What is going to happen is Ichigo is going to stomp all over Aizen until Aizen pulls some bullshit out of his ass and starts stomping all over Ichigo until Ichigo pulls some bullshit out of his ass etc. until Aizen doesn't have bullshit left to pull and dies.

This is what is going to happen because that is what happens in Shonen and what we have learned from Gin is that What Happens In Shonen is an absolute dictator over what happens in Bleach, even if that is the worst thing that could possibly happen in this particular story. In this fight there isn't even any particular reason NOT to have The Final Shonen Showdown, other than the ever present and utterly powerless reason that it would be much more interesting to question the conventions of the genre.

[Kim]

Well, actually, the reason that this might not be the final showdown is the "This is what happens in shonen" reason. AKA something might happen so Kubo can drag this out even longer.

[01d55]

Well, actually, the reason that this might not be the final showdown is the "This is what happens in shonen" reason. AKA something might happen so Kubo can drag this out even longer.

Aizen's next step is to kill everyone Ichigo knows and who lives near where Ichigo lives. Ichigo's entire motivation is to Protect His Own because that is the Shonen Protagonist's motivation and what the Shonen Protagonist achieves. Therefore Aizen will not get to his next step, i.e. will lose.

Hypothetically Ichigo could lose and then just before Aizen gets back, the King of Soul Society opens up his realm from the inside and sends out the Zero Squad and THEY stop Aizen, but that would defy an essential element of What Happens in Shonen: It is the protagonist, and no one else, who ends the threat.

If Tite Kubo wants more chapters, that's what flash back is for. We are definitely going to get a flashback to Ichigo's Inner World. Possibly there will be maudlin flashbacks for all of Ichigo's friends lest we forget for even one moment what Ichigo, The Shonen Protagonist, is Fighting For: Exactly the same goddamn thing every other Shonen Protagonist is fighting for. In this scenario Orihime's flashback is the final and most maudlin flashback, because hey why not throw in some Power of Love, it's not like women have anything else to contribute to The Shonen Plot!

[Lithp]

it's not like women have anything else to contribute to The Shonen Plot!

But Orihime is one of the few female characters who don't contribute to a major battle.

[Aerozord]

So whats everyone's opinion of Ichigo completely subscribing to the Kenpachi school of fighting now?

[Donomni]

I'm still trying to get my head around it, but I guess he just traded his SORD LASR and any possible kidou or other not-pure-swordy-and-punchy-prowess to become Bleach's Rock Lee(Or maybe Might Guy, considering Kenpachi knows dick about his sword beyond the fact that it stabs things)?

I will say the results are fucking awesome, though. Loved that blade catching bit: payback for Soul Society.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Given that he couldn't control it much to begin with. I guess It made sense to just trade it all for raw power. It payed off at the least though I will miss Getsuga tenshou if he can't do that anymore.

Kenpatchi's going to foam out when he sees Ichigo now. I wonder if tite's going to pass this discard for max of the opposite power bit around should Bleach gain another threat.

[Sithdarth]

I think Ichigo made it pretty clear whatever the heck he did it wasn't what Aizen thought he did.

[Arcanum]

The only thing that would have made this chapter better is if Ichigo had literally flipped Aizen the bird.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

That would have made my day.

[Sithdarth]

I just realized that this chapter totally explains Isshin's finger flick of doom from his fight with Aizen.

[01d55]

Given that he couldn't control it much to begin with. I guess It made sense to just trade it all for raw power. It payed off at the least though I will miss Getsuga tenshou if he can't do that anymore.

Kenpatchi's going to foam out when he sees Ichigo now. I wonder if tite's going to pass this discard for max of the opposite power bit around should Bleach gain another threat.

I wouldn't, but let's not kid ourselves: Aizen is dead wrong about Ichigo's reiatsu, which is probably all tied up in his new mask.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I figured part of his training was to learn to fight without it. Though him repressing it is also plausible.

[Arcanum]

I just realized that this chapter totally explains Isshin's finger flick of doom from his fight with Aizen.

This is true. This also goes to show just how ridiculous Ichigo's Reiatsu really is was.

[krogothwolf]

You know what, what the hell happened with Yammy?

[Lithp]

But wait, then how did Isshin use Getsuga Tensho? Or does that count as brute strength?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Now I want Ichigo to do it. Damn I kinda wish he'd toy with Aizen for a bit.

[Arcanum]

You know what, what the hell happened with Yammy?

Same thing that happened to some Vaizards and Wonderweiss, and probably a few others. Kubo either A) forgot about them B) realized nobody cared and would rather watch the main fight or C) stopped giving a shit about them because he's Kubo and can do whatever the hell he wants.

Now I want Ichigo to do it. Damn I kinda wish he'd toy with Aizen for a bit.

Well if Aizen doesn't go Bankai next chapter then he's pretty much guaranteed to die with the way this is going.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Can it be all of the above?

[Aerozord]

Basically Aizen has a god complex (duh) which has caused him to go into deep denial about how freakin screwed he is right now. It is a fun thing to watch as he finds the whole "truth is subjective" thing also applies to his invincibility too

[01d55]

POINT: Something caused Isshin to lose his Shinigami powers for a period of years - at least 10, probably more than 15. That may be why it's the Final Getsuya Tenshou - using it (And that's how you know you've learned it, yeah?) causes the effect Aizen describes in this chapter, but once the strength fades you're out of your Shinigami powers for a good long time. So that's the bullshit that is going to let Aizen stomp on Ichigo for a round before Ichigo's new mask bullshit comes into play.

COUNTERPOINT: That would be tying plot threads together and not just mindlessly asspulling whatever most conveniently justifies the next step in the Shounen Formula at this particular moment.

[krogothwolf]

It could be that for once Aizen has no idea what he's talking about? Instead of knowing everything, cause that'd be decent.

[Aerozord]

It atleast shows you he lacks Urahara's ability to analyze the situation.

FYI, according to Urahara its been 40 years since he lost his powers

[Sithdarth]

It could just be that 40 years ago Isshin went to Urahara and said "Yo man I want to be a human and hide from the Soul Society, ya dig?"

And then Urahara was like "I totally got this new gigai that'll make it impossible to detect you but you'll lose your shinigami powers."

Then Isshin was like "That'll totally work man."

Thus Isshin lost his powers for 40 years and had kids.

[EVILNess]

I must say that Ichigo's current anti-Aizen abilities is actually a breath of fresh air. It really is great to see Aizen trying to do his LOLCHECKMATE stuff and then Ichigo just physically punching him in the face.

No spirit blasts.
No SUPER BANKAI.
No team-ups with Kid Kaptain.

He just straight up is manhandling Aizen.

[CABAL49]

If I remember, Isshin doesn't really any reiatsu either.

[Art of Hilt]

ha ha oh my god is this seriously how Aizen is going to lose
"Yes, after years and decades and lifetimes of research and planning and training and magic I finally have the strongest power ever- OH WHOOPS SOMEONE MANAGED TO BE EVEN STRONGER THAN ME IN LIKE A DAY O: "

[Arcanum]

Technically it was three months but yeah, that's pretty much it.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

He trained for 2,232 Hours straight.

[krogothwolf]

Well, it's not like it's any better then "Oh, I have the bitchiness Zanpakut? Shiki ability ever so no one can really ever know what I'm doing because they all fall under my illusion!" And what is happening right now will probably soon have this happening "Haha, this is my Bankai, totally even more overpowered and now I am even more awesome!"

[Kim]

Next chapter's climax (Or perhaps the chapter after) is Aizen going bankai probably. Two or three chapters of him kicking Ichigo's ass. Ichigo uses his hollow form stuff. One or two chapters of him either beating Aizen or fighting on equal ground. Then Aizen does something and starts winning, and Ichigo finally wins by BELIEVING IN HIMSELF.

EDIT: Or because everyone else BELIEVES IN HIM.

[Fenris]

Next chapter's climax (Or perhaps the chapter after) is Aizen going bankai probably. Two or three chapters of him kicking Ichigo's ass. Ichigo uses his hollow form stuff. One or two chapters of him either beating Aizen or fighting on equal ground. Then Aizen does something and starts winning, and Ichigo finally wins by BELIEVING IN HIMSELF.

EDIT: Or because everyone else BELIEVES IN HIM.

He shoots a laser out of his chest, finally killing Aizen and bringing balance back to the crystals.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Why does ichigo look like Cloud to me all of a sudden? And I doubt I'm the only one who noticed.

[Donomni]

Considering his sword isn't the size of a car at the moment, I sure as hell didn't notice.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

He reminds of FFVII Advent Children Cloud.

[Wigmund]

So how many chapters of Ichigo and Aizen pulling new stuff/abilities out of their asses are we gonna have?

[Kim]

Nine.

[Art of Hilt]

He trained for 2,232 Hours straight.

oh well that's completely different then

[A Zarkin' Frood]

I just read last week's Bleach and it looks like Ichigo pulled an Aizen on Aizen.

[Donomni]

Since when were you under the impression that Aizen could not be Aizen'd?

[Kim]

Just checked out spoilers since I just don't care enough to wait for the translation.

Aizen evolves again. Grows some hollow masks out of his back. Shoots some ceros. Talks about how the Ho-Goku won't let him lose to a human. Ichigo says "I'll show you the Final Getsuga Tenshou" and then the chapter ends.

I am so fucking tired of watching Aizen evolve.

[Fifthfiend]

Just checked out spoilers since I just don't care enough to wait for the translation.

Aizen evolves again. Grows some hollow masks out of his back. Shoots some ceros. Talks about how the Ho-Goku won't let him lose to a human. Ichigo says "I'll show you the Final Getsuga Tenshou" and then the chapter ends.

I am so fucking tired of watching Aizen evolve.

Literally the only interesting thing that could have happened in the Aizen fight happened a million chapters ago when Captain Oldguy exploited a weakness in Aizen's otherwise-broken powerset via cunning and letting himself get stabbed, and since then FARTZ FARTZ FARTZ FARTY FARTZEN FARTZGYOKU and people going through their respective decks of Win Cards.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Just checked out spoilers since I just don't care enough to wait for the translation.

Aizen evolves again. Grows some hollow masks out of his back. Shoots some ceros. Talks about how the Ho-Goku won't let him lose to a human. Ichigo says "I'll show you the Final Getsuga Tenshou" and then the chapter ends.

I am so fucking tired of watching Aizen evolve.

Damn it! Well at least we'll get to see the last getsuga.

[Wigmund]

Until Kubo creates the next one.

[Lithp]

Just checked out spoilers since I just don't care enough to wait for the translation.

Aizen evolves again. Grows some hollow masks out of his back. Shoots some ceros. Talks about how the Ho-Goku won't let him lose to a human. Ichigo says "I'll show you the Final Getsuga Tenshou" and then the chapter ends.

I am so fucking tired of watching Aizen evolve.

How do you know this?

[greed]

Good guess(well kinda obvious something like that would happen) or early spoilers. Either way he's right. And oh shit Kubo's been on the pipe coming up with this form.


Edit: Aizen: Who said I wasn't a butterfly tentacle monster.

[Kim]

Bleach 419: In case you though Aizen couldn't look any dumber than he already did.

[Lithp]

I think it looks awesome.

Edit: Holy shit, I just realized that his face split open!

[Kim]

How do you know this?

I've got an inside source.

I think it looks awesome.

I know you do, Lithp. I know you do.

[Steel Shadow]

...What the fuck was that thing?

Ichigo, get on with it. That abomination needs to go.

[krogothwolf]

Man, I thought it was Frieza all over again with one new form after another but even frieza didn't look that.....fucked up.

[Lithp]

I know you do, Lithp. I know you do.

It's cooler than a glowing aura of blue sweat, that's for damn sure.

[Fifthfiend]

I can't wait to see THE FINAL VERSION of the attack that was boring power-spooge in every previous version

[Aerozord]

one thing that made this chapter worth it, was Ichigo's taunting. That and Aizen's slowly loosening grasp on sanity as his superiority complex is dismantled

[Wigmund]

I can't wait to see THE FINAL VERSION of the attack that was boring power-spooge in every previous version

Kubo spills ink. Final Attack complete.

[Kim]

Ichigo turns into the Getsuga Tenshou.

OR: Ichigo yells "Getsuga Tenshou", nothing happens, Aizen asks "I thought you were going to do the Final Getsuga Tenshou", Ichigo responds "Since when were you ever under the impression I didn't do the Final Getsuga Tenshou", and Aizen shatters like glass.

[Lithp]

You know what I realized a while back?

Black Coffin is an Iron Maiden made of black hole.

[Grimpond]

Ichigo turns into the Getsuga Tenshou.

OR: Ichigo yells "Getsuga Tenshou", nothing happens, Aizen asks "I thought you were going to do the Final Getsuga Tenshou", Ichigo responds "Since when were you ever under the impression I didn't do the Final Getsuga Tenshou", and Aizen shatters like glass.

That would be so great

[Wigmund]

But then Kubo would probably have the various bits turn into mini-Aizens.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

The Final Getsuga is a Second Bankai transformation. I'm calling it now.

[synkr0nized]

Ichigo's hair goes blonde, and he is surrounded by stupid woo--woo--woo sounds. He then gathers the spirit energy of the Earth to defeat Cell and then rides away in his Gundam to Gaea.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Spoiler Script

Source: http://ichixhime.actifforum.com/mang...-yet-t4313.htm
Credits: Maaru
Verification: Comfirmed


Short spoiler: (courtesy of Zangetsu01):


Quote:

??????????
An unexpected Ichigo!!!
?????????????
He transformed!!
??????????
He's got long black hair (hip-length)
???????????????????
It looks very similar to Ulquiorra's transformation...
????????????????????
His face is covered with bandages just like Kakashi-sensei's...



Long spoiler (courtesy of Idol):

Notes: When Ohana refers to 'White Ichigo', I assume she meant Shirosaki, but it might be Shirogetsu (Shirosaki +

Tensa Zangetsu), so this is still subject to change when we see the pics come out.

Quote:

??????
??????????
Unbelievable, the final Getsuga...

608 ?ohana ?IR7jauNn4E ?2010/09/14(?) 18:12:26 IDu//rBuaP
???????????????????
Ichigo: I'll show you, the final Getsuga Tenshou.
??????????????????????????????????
Aizen: What, that form is--- (well, I wonder what he thinks about his form)

bleach?DEICIDE22?

????????????
Underwater? Well, during that time in his mind--
?????????????
Shirosaki: Haven't you fallen yet, Ichigo.
???????????????????????????????????
Ichigo: Don't make me laugh, I'm not down yet. Not until I get what the final Getsuga Tenshou is.
????????????…????????
Shirosaki: I'm tellin' you... I'm not gonna teach you!!

??????
Shirosaki flies

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???
Ichigo: (Why is it, that if he really wants to kill me, then he could've done so since the very beginning. He's got

that much difference of power between us.
???????????????????????????????????????????? ????
If he really doesn't want to teach me, then just stopping this fight and avoiding me would be fine. He could've done

just that. So why
??????????????????????????????
So why is it that from his sword, flows such overwhelming loneliness)
?????????
The two exchange blows.
???????????????????
Shirosaki faces Ichigo and separates him from his sword.

??????
Ichigo is stabbed.

???????????…???????????????????????????????? ??…
Shirosaki: So you've noticed... The final Getsuga Tenshou can't be learned from any blade but mine.
?????????…?
Ichigo: It doesn't hurt...
?????????????????????…?????????????????????? ???…
Shirosaki: Of course. This Tensa Zangetsu is originally yours... To be pierced by it will not cause any pain.
????????
Tears spill from Shirosaki
???????????
Ichigo: Why the hell are you crying?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????
Shirosaki: Ichigo, do you remember the words I said at the beginning of this fight? That what you want to protect is

not what I want to protect.
?????
Ichigo: Yeah.
?????????????????????????
Shirosaki: What I wanted to protect was... you, Ichigo.
???????????
Ichigo: What do you mean.
???????????????????????????????????????????? ??
Shirosaki: I meant, that the main point of the technique is directly taught straight from this blade. Ichigo, to

teach you this technique, you have to----

???????
Aizen standing in mid-air.
???????????????????????????????????????????? ????
Ichigo: The final Getsuga Tenshou is to turn myself into Zangetsu. (His black hair flows all the way down to his

hips, and bandages wrap around his face from the nose down)
?????????????????????????????????????
Ichigo: This technique is, for me to part with all the power of a shinigami, that is what the final form meant.

???????????????????????????????????????????? ??????
Aizen: (Impossible. I who, evolved beyond the dimensions of a shinigami, able to an existence of two or three

dimensions apart from it, could not cross such a line
???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????
to intentionally lower your own level as far as your limits could go, not even as a shinigami or a human, to the

point where my reiatsu could no longer even register it
???????????????????????????????????????????
impossible. impossible. This *******, this man, to stand and evolve beyond me is---)
???????????????????????????????????????????? ???
Aizen: FOOL!!! That such a thing could happen!!! THAT SUCH A MERE HUMAN COULD SURPASS ME!!! THAT SUCH A THING IS

EVEN---

???????
Ichigo grabs his sword
?????????
[MUGETSU] (Moonless sky)

????????????????
In the next page it opens with the sky filling with darkness

???????…??
To bring everything back into darkness--!!!



I KNEW IT!!

[Kim]

I was right?! What the fuck.

[synkr0nized]

hahahahahaha

He better end this soon. This is retarded.


Like, I still enjoy a whole lot of the before stuff regardless. But :/. Like maybe he'll start taking a page from Mookie and pull random, terrible things out of his ass for no reason. Oh wait.

[Kim]

If nothing else, this further supports my theory that Ichigo is part sword.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

We'll see how he looks tomorrow. Mugetsu sounds like it'll be the finishing blow.

[Kim]

Supposedly, Bleach is far from ending. The fact that there are a lot of unanswered questions supports this. I'm wondering if we'll be getting a new villain after Aizen.

Alternatively: Chapter 421 is Hueco Mundo shit.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Eventually we're going to have to see what happened to Yammy.

[krogothwolf]

Supposedly, Bleach is far from ending. The fact that there are a lot of unanswered questions supports this. I'm wondering if we'll be getting a new villain after Aizen.

Cell?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

The King of the Soul Society?

[Kim]

Oh God.

OH GOD.

OH GOD OH MAN OH MAN OH GOD

The replacement villain for Aizen will be... Yammy...

He defeated Kenpachi and Byakuya off-screen.

[Grimpond]

Oh God.

OH GOD.

OH GOD OH MAN OH MAN OH GOD

The replacement villain for Aizen will be... Yammy...

He defeated Kenpachi and Byakuya off-screen.

Fuck You. Fuck you for me reading that.

[IHateMakingNames]

Except when we get this new villain, who will be the supporting cast? Aizen beat everyone at once before he started evolving, and now he's done that like twelve times. Who is left besides Ichigo to stand up to whoever is the next threat?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Good god... He'd have to be city size by now...

[Kim]

Except when we get this new villain, who will be the supporting cast? Aizen beat everyone at once before he started evolving, and now he's done that like twelve times. Who is left besides Ichigo to stand up to whoever is the next threat?

Ichigo will most likely lose all or most of his powers for a brief time, if Isshin is anything to go by, after which he will most likely regain them by training really hard.

Aside from that, we've got several captains we haven't seen bankais for. We'll probably get some temp downtime for the weaker characters where-in Ichigo tries to get his powers back, Orihime and Chad train their powers to be stronger, and Rukia attempts to learn bankai. Plus, we've got this new power level Ichigo just learned that I expect other characters will either learn as well, or have some super-powered equivalent to.

If it's any consolation, Yammy won't be a long-term villain. Just a short-term mook while Kubo sets up either the next big bad or Aizen's return, and someone for the Captains to fight while everyone else trains.

[Wigmund]

So Team Why-The-Fuck-Are-We-Here will level up just enough to get their asses royally handed to them and still survive?

Wonder if you'll be able to set the next thirty chapters of this happening to "I'll Make A Man Out Of You".

[Kim]

Pretty much.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

You know I would love for them to not and up suck for a change next arc. Sadly that will not happen. And they may very well get killed off for good.

[Kim]

http://i55.tinypic.com/iqd383.jpg

[Arcanum]

If you look at it from one perspective (which I call the Dragon Ball angle) once the next villain shows up it will be revealed that the crazy power level of the main character can be easily attained by everyone else (for example, after Goku killed Freiza, Mecha Freiza showed up and Trunks killed him in one shot, and shortly after that everyone and their mother went super sayin).

However if you look at it from a somewhat realistic angle (which I call the Never Happens Ever angle) then it's highly unlikely that everyone else will learn to do what Ichigo did, since many of the Captains are hundreds of years old and never stumbled across this whereas Ichigo did it in 3 months (although we don't know how long Isshin was working on figuring it out). And then there's also the possibility that only Getsuga is capable of this technique.

But yeah, the Dragon Ball angle is probably much more likely to happen.


Also, NonCon stop making predictions because every time you do they come true!

[Kim]

Told you man. Tite. Motherfuckin'. Kubo.

Just realized. If his hair stays black, he'll look even more like Kaien Shiba than he did before. Anyone wanna take bets on if Rukia will ANGST about it?

[Fifthfiend]

Oh God.

OH GOD.

OH GOD OH MAN OH MAN OH GOD

The replacement villain for Aizen will be... Yammy...

He defeated Kenpachi and Byakuya off-screen.

I'm going to eat your heart.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Save a piece for me.

[krogothwolf]

Also, NonCon stop making predictions because every time you do they come true!

Are you implying that NonCon is Tite Kubo?

[Kim]

Since when were you under the impression I wasn't? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9utMkgeyqE&feature=related)

[Fifthfiend]

http://i55.tinypic.com/iqd383.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SondXLF9HOs

[Kim]

Translation is up. You know, it kinda cuts the drama out of "If I use this technique I lose my powers" when we already know it's possible to get them back on account of Isshin. Also Hollow Ichigo Tensa Zangetsu Prettyboy is SOOOO SAAAAAAAD. God this drama is forced as fuck.

[Aerozord]

seems reguardless, a mullet is a prerequisite for power in the series.

To be fair it took Isshin like, 40 years to get it back. What I dont get is why he didn't just do this himself

[Kyanbu The Legend]

It probably only works once in a life time. Meaning you get one shot and that's it.

Getting your powers back over time is likely not even suppose to be possible to begin with.

Isshin probably can't even go Bankai let alone Shikai anymore.

[Fifthfiend]

An ultimate attack that sacrifices all your powers forever?

...Oh hey Ishida, I didn't see you over there. Wha'choo been up to, dawg?

[Fifthfiend]

His final technique is: He powerspooged himself!

At last, he became the spooge.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

It would be a plot twist if it was actually played straight this time.

[Wigmund]

Next chapter should be 18 blacked out pages.
Followed by a 2 page spread of Kubo reclining on a massive pile of money.
He looks at the reader and says "Shit, didn't realize you were still reading this".

[Aerozord]

Next chapter should be 18 blacked out pages.
Followed by a 2 page spread of Kubo reclining on a massive pile of money.
He looks at the reader and says "Shit, didn't realize you were still reading this".

honestly, if that happened I'd call it the greatest manga ever. Because thats just a beautiful dick move right there

[Arcanum]

Next chapter should be 18 blacked out pages.
Followed by a 2 page spread of Kubo reclining on a massive pile of money.
He looks at the reader and says "Shit, didn't realize you were still reading this".

And people would still keep reading Bleach after he does that.

[Lithp]

I'm starting to think that the King of the Soul Society will be a villain after Aizen. Something about this whole thing just feels eerily similar to Season 5 of Digimon.

[greed]

What was that season about, the only ones I remember clearly are 1-3.

Ichigo will most likely lose all or most of his powers for a brief time, if Isshin is anything to go by, after which he will most likely regain them by training really hard.

Aside from that, we've got several captains we haven't seen bankais for. We'll probably get some temp downtime for the weaker characters where-in Ichigo tries to get his powers back, Orihime and Chad train their powers to be stronger, and Rukia attempts to learn bankai. Plus, we've got this new power level Ichigo just learned that I expect other characters will either learn as well, or have some super-powered equivalent to.


This is Bleach they won't catch up, once a side character has the spotlight they disappear. The Karakura group will get powers from being exposed to Aizen or something. At which point Ishida and most of the Captains will off themselves in shame for being surpassed by Keigo and Chizuru. Chad, Renji and the Vizard will be completely forgotten.

[Lithp]

Warning: I forgot how to use Spoiler Tags.

Season 5 was "Digimon: Data Squad." Basically, Digimon materialized in the real world, while the Data Squad reverted them to Digi-Eggs & sent them back. Then there was some shit about the humans trying to destroy Digimon & it was revealed that Professor Kurata was behind like everything bad in the entire series. After he broke the goddamn sky, the King Drasil computer got all pissed off & told the Royal Knights to destroy the Earth.

Also, the main character punched Mega-Level Digimon in the face.

[greed]

Ah right, thanks. Man forgot that, Kurata was a DOUCHE.

Also if the forgot spoiler tags thing wasn't sarcasm, it's [*SPOILER][*/SPOILER] minus the stars or the button on the panel with ab then c hidden in shadow.

Also my other prediction, Ryuuken will be a villain. If not the next big villain. Think about it, first he should have appeared when Isshin and Yoruichi and Kisuke did. He didn't but hey he does seem to dislike dealing with shinigami so maybe he stayed in Karakura? Except he didn't appear when Aizen was rampaging around. The guy is a big enough dick to be villain. Plus he's already got long (white!) hair.

I'm betting after this fight finishes we'll cut to see him killing Tessai or something and starting up his own evil plan. I mean at this point Karakura town is apparently in Soul Society, so he could easily get to the main part of it. Which currently has no captains or lieutenants defending it. Ryuuken could do whatever he wants there while all the high level shinigami are stuck on earth/in Hueco Mondo.

Maybe have Ichigo stop Aizen from making the key with Karakura town only for Ryuuken to use all the low level shinigami and wholes in the undefended SS to do the same thing?

[Lithp]

An awesome douche.

No, it wasn't sarcasm.When I first made the post, I used [[spoiler:text]]. It didn't work. Then I realized that was TV Tropes' format.

I can kind of see Ryuuken as a villain, if he wants revenge for the whole Quincy Genocide thing.

[Kim]

I can kind of see Ryuuken as a villain, if he wants revenge for the whole Quincy Genocide thing.

Why would he? Doesn't he thinks being a Quincy is a stupid thing that is also dumb because it doesn't make you any money?