Science says "All men watch porn. Also, the sky is blue. Water is wet."

[Regulus Tera]

Admittedly, 20s is a small case sample (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/relationships/6709646/All-men-watch-porn-scientists-find.html):

Researchers were conducting a study comparing the views of men in their 20s who had never been exposed to pornography with regular users.

But their project stumbled at the first hurdle when they failed to find a single man who had not been seen it.

“We started our research seeking men in their 20s who had never consumed pornography,” said Professor Simon Louis Lajeunesse. “We couldn't find any.”

Although hampered in its original aim, the study did examined the habits of those young men who used pornography – which would appear to be all of them.

Prof Lajeunesse interviewed 20 heterosexual male university students who consumed pornography, and found on average, they first watched pornography when they were 10 years old.

Around 90 per cent of consumption was on the internet, while 10 per cent of material came from video stores.

Single men watched pornography for an average of 40 minutes, three times a week, while those in relationships watched it 1.7 times a week for around 20 minutes.

The study found that men watched pornography that matched their own image of sexuality, and quickly discarded material they found offensive or distasteful.

Prof Lajeunesse said pornography did not have a negative effect on men's sexuality.

“Not one subject had a pathological sexuality,” he said. “In fact, all of their sexual practices were quite conventional.

“Pornography hasn't changed their perception of women or their relationship, which they all want to be as harmonious and fulfilling as possible,” he added.

Well now I can shut up that girl at Physics who keeps bitching about her boyfriend having a porn stash.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Well this is interesting. I had no Idea that all guys watch or have at least seen porn in there 20s. XD This needs to be made public. To shut up enough people.

[Kim]

Yay! Fucking finally a study comes out and says that looking at porn is totally chill. As opposed to pretty much every other study I've seen on the subject that says porn makes you an abusive misogynist.

[Truce]

Apparently, there's two hours of porn that I've been putting off watching each week.

I'm disappointed in myself, really.

[Kerensky287]

They should try it again with a larger pool of subjects. Not because I think they're wrong, but because if they're right then it'll be an even more important result.

[Kim]

There's no better time to start!

[Mesden]

So blind guys don't count as men.

Curse you, science.

[The Wandering God]

So blind guys don't count as men.

Curse you, science.
There's always 1-900-HOT-4DEAF

[MasterOfMagic]

Alternatively: There are very creative uses of braille I'm sure!

[Nique]

Well now I can shut up that girl at Physics who keeps bitching about her boyfriend having a porn stash.

I don't know if that's fair. If it makes one partner insecure then it IS having a negative effect on the relationship and I feel like it's completely reasonable for it to maker her feel that way if she wishes to pursue a 100% monogamous relationship with someone. Although if her boyfriend isn't willing to give up porn for her maybe she should be with someone who will?

Also; Just becuase something is the norm doesn't make it ok. I don't want to get into a whole thing but that seems to be where this article is coming from and it isn't a stable premise to start on.

[Premmy]

Normal=/=fine and dandy, as for porn itself..... eh.... mysogynist? yes, Racist? yes reinforcing painfully negative concepts about sex and sexuality? hell yes. The idea of enjoying watching people having sex? not a big problem. If we could clean out the bad parts of porn, this would'nt be such an issue.

[bluestarultor]

Also; Just becuase something is the norm doesn't make it ok. I don't want to get into a whole thing but that seems to be where this article is coming from and it isn't a stable premise to start on.

That's a pretty Puritanical viewpoint in this case. There's been porn ever since the first caveman finger-painted a willy on a cave wall.

Sex is natural and necessary. Porn is a safe way of venting sexual desires in private. Guys getting sex, as shown by the numbers, don't look at nearly as much porn. It's a substitute, not a replacement.

[Regulus Tera]

So blind guys don't count as men.

Curse you, science.

I would link to "porn for the blind" if it weren't NSFW.

[Kerensky287]

Also; Just becuase something is the norm doesn't make it ok. I don't want to get into a whole thing but that seems to be where this article is coming from and it isn't a stable premise to start on.

To be fair, they seemed to be trying to test whether frequent viewing of porn had any effect on how healthy relationships turned out to be. If what the study implies is true, then it CAN'T have an effect on relationships because different people have different qualities of relationships, while all of them involve men who look at porn.

Also, what isn't okay about it? Prude.

EDIT: Ahahahahaha oh man I should've seen this coming. I love how everyone defends it so hard. What, was I triple-ninja'd by "LEAVE PORNO ALONE" posts? Or was it more than that? *Nope, just 2 actually (RT's doesn't count), but a post every 2 minutes saying Nique was wrong was still hilarious to see.

[bluestarultor]

To be fair, they seemed to be trying to test whether frequent viewing of porn had any effect on how healthy relationships turned out to be. If what the study implies is true, then it CAN'T have an effect on relationships because different people have different qualities of relationships, while all of them involve men who look at porn.

Also, what isn't okay about it? Prude.

EDIT: Ahahahahaha oh man I should've seen this coming. I love how everyone defends it so hard. What, was I triple-ninja'd by "LEAVE PORNO ALONE" posts? Or was it more than that? *Nope, just 2 actually (RT's doesn't count), but a post every 2 minutes saying Nique was wrong was still hilarious to see.

My point was less "ZOMG PORN IZ AWESOME" and more "if it weren't for sex, you wouldn't be here" combined with the sharp drop when a guy is in a relationship and the fact that porn has not, to my knowledge, killed anyone.

[POS Industries]

So blind guys don't count as men.

Curse you, science.
I knew a blind guy years ago that had one of these. (http://www.banterist.com/archivefiles/000305.html)

[Arhra]

The thing that really disturbs me about this is the fact this is fact the average age the people in the study started watching porn is 10.

Average. So in other words, half of them were under the age of ten. I'm a little creeped out thinking about what the standard deviation was.

Still, yeah, way too small a sample to be really significant.

[Truce]

The thing that really disturbs me about this is the fact this is fact the average age the people in the study started watching porn is 10.

Average. So in other words, half of them were under the age of ten. I'm a little creeped out thinking about what the standard deviation was.

Still, yeah, way too small a sample to be really significant.

You're assuming a normal curve, Arhra. There could easily just be a percentage of people who saw porn really, really young, which would skew the curve.

[Kim]

You're assuming a normal curve, Arhra. There could easily just be a percentage of people who saw porn really, really young, which would skew the curve.

Or they could mean average in the sense that ten was the most frequent age rather than the mean of the ages. Not technically what average means, but I'd consider that a valid interpretation.

[Nique]

That's a pretty Puritanical viewpoint in this case.

What? I think everyone is mistaking my past stated personal views with the actual content of my post. I'm a actually refraining from talking about the morality of porn - my statement was more about how everyone else was taking the article. You can't just say "well 'x' behavior is normal or average so it must be fine". Whether it is or isn't is just a different point altogether, it's just a fallacious argument to start with is all. It has nothing to do with being puritanical. Frankly I'm a little offended becuase my views are so far from actually being puritanical to the point where using the term is nothing but insulting.

Also, what isn't okay about it? Prude.

Yeah. Again, not my point so, can we not do this?

To be fair, they seemed to be trying to test whether frequent viewing of porn had any effect on how healthy relationships turned out to be. If what the study implies is true, then it CAN'T have an effect on relationships because different people have different qualities of relationships, while all of them involve men who look at porn.

20 people?

Average. So in other words, half of them were under the age of ten. I'm a little creeped out thinking about what the standard deviation was.

Porn is so ubiquitous. I'm not really surprised at all. Good or bad, it's pervasive so it's pretty rare to not have been exposed to it.

[Arhra]

Yeah, I kinda messed up saying 'half of them are under the age of ten'. That would have been right if it's the median, but not for averages.

Still, stuff like this does tend towards a normal distribution, so I am curious what the upper and lower ages were.

[Truce]

I would link to "porn for the blind" if it weren't NSFW.

Well, I am sure as hell not afraid to do what you can't. (http://stemplay.com/mges/Black%20Wallpaper.jpg)

Edit: Arhra, the greater a sample is, the more it will resemble a normal curve. However, this is simply too small a sample to assume such.

Though, to be honest, it's damn frightening that they could only find 20 heterosexual males on a university campus.

[Odjn]

FIT and Sarah Lawrence have notoriously low populations of het or female preferred bi men. Alleviated by being in/near NYC...

edit: I hear things about NYU too.

[Premmy]

Which only goes to prove the assertion that booklernin is 'fer queers.

[Odjn]

Which only goes to prove the assertion that booklernin is 'fer queers.

Conversely, we all know what happens when there's little supply and much demand.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Conversely, we all know what happens when there's little supply and much demand.

Devaluation of the currency?

[Odjn]

Devaluation of the currency?

Because the transactions are too common.

[Fifthfiend]

A study of 20 people isn't a study. Shit it's not even an etch-a-sketch.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Because the transactions are too common.

A theoretical result which will never be achieved in realistic conditions.

A study of 20 people isn't a study. Shit it's not even an etch-a-sketch.

Ain't no way you can draw 20 people in an etch-a-sketch. 4 tops.

[Odjn]

A theoretical result which will never be achieved in realistic conditions.


Hey now, just because it's theoretical for you...

[Satan's Onion]

A study of 20 people isn't a study. Shit it's not even an etch-a-sketch.

But...but...without Serious Science Research Studies of Science like this one, however shall we reassure ourselves that men are all like this and do things this way, and women are all like that and do things a totally opposite and different way? The classic family sitcom as we know it might die out completely without this vital information!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Hey now, just because it's theoretical for you...

Your deviation from the theoretical optimum only heightens the need to incorporate individual limiting factors into model systems.

[Odjn]

But...but...without Serious Science Research Studies of Science like this one, however shall we reassure ourselves that men are all like this and do things this way, and women are all like that and do things a totally opposite and different way? The sitcom as we know it might die out completely without this vital information!

Aw man someone's being serious.

Yeah it's ridiculously unscientific- I can't find anything where it says he's tested more than 20 doods in their twenties. The 10 years old thing should be investigated in another study though!

Your deviation from the theoretical optimum only heightens the need to incorporate individual limiting factors into model systems.

You've lost the funny, friend. Though, I am deviant...and have been referred to as optimum.

[Regulus Tera]

A study of 20 people isn't a study. Shit it's not even an etch-a-sketch.

It's not a study of twenty people, it's a study of people in their twenties.

Wait hold on you're right. I didn't read what I didn't bold.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You've lost the funny, friend. Though, I am deviant...and have been referred to as optimum.

Your limiting factors are quite limiting, however.

[Odjn]

Your limiting factors are quite limiting, however.

Are you hitting on me?

[DFM]

Twenty people, man this shouldn't have even gotten an article.

[Kim]

I interpreted it to be they asked a bunch of people in their twenties if they'd looked at porn or whatevs, and ended up only interviewing twenty of them. I would like to see this study carried out on a larger scale, I was just happy to see a study that actually agreed with my point of view on the matter. It may be a flawed study, but so is pretty much every study I've heard about.

[Magus]

I think their sample was surely >30 in order to first attempt to be valid scientifically, and then they ended up doing 20 interviews. But yeah, if their sample was only 20 people I don't think they can go ahead and say, "All men watch porn", as there are undoubtedly ones who don't.

Exposure to pornography at a young age isn't too unbelievable, depending on how you define it. Seeing a nudy scene in an R-rated movie isn't too difficult, and most heterosexual males have probably purposefully sought out pornography as soon as they were aware it existed (I certainly did). I'm sure I'd seen full-fledged pornography in videos and magazines by age ten, at a friend's house where they'd snuck it form their parents or in various other places.

Also, when talking about feminist and racist connotations in pornography, most feminists at least make a distinction between "erotica", where all parties appear to be enjoying the sexual activity, and "pornography" which would be defined by violent, misogynistic, or domination scenes in the pornography. Obviously some die-hards define all pornography as automatically misogynistic but as far as feminist theory goes I'm pretty sure that which is defined as "erotica" gets a pass.

[katiuska]

You'd be surprised at how many small and questionable studies you'll find published in psych journals. I mean seriously.

And yeah, it's pretty easy to find porn even when you aren't seeking it out, to say nothing of when you are. Our neighbor girls, who were about 8-9 at the time, had to get a talking-to about using our computer to make searches for naked people, though in that case I doubt it was for titillation as much as curiosity/"hehehe I'm being naughty."

[Azisien]

It's a little vague. I think what the article and prof. meant was that he tried to find men who hadn't seen pornography but found no one. So he had to alter his study.

That means his sample size is 20, but just for whatever interview questions he had.

I liken it to physicists putting up a sign in their department looking for Higgs bosons or magnetic monopoles.

[katiuska]

Also, when talking about feminist and racist connotations in pornography, most feminists at least make a distinction between "erotica", where all parties appear to be enjoying the sexual activity, and "pornography" which would be defined by violent, misogynistic, or domination scenes in the pornography. Obviously some die-hards define all pornography as automatically misogynistic but as far as feminist theory goes I'm pretty sure that which is defined as "erotica" gets a pass.

There's some heavy debate about the line between good porn and bad porn and whether there even is any. Personally I'm okay as long as I'm not looked down upon for failing to measure up in some way. I think the source of a lot of heterosexual female insecurity is the fear that what men really want sexually (not in general--it's assumed that most people, male or female, do want emotional companionship and all that--but specifically with the sex aspect) isn't them (and I don't just mean physically, but behaviorally). Maybe men dismiss this concern so abruptly because they know it isn't true, I don't know.

[Magic_Marker]

It's not a study of twenty people, it's a study of people in their twenties.

Wait hold on you're right. I didn't read what I didn't bold.

How dare you put this unscientific smut in this forum. I bite my thumb at you.

[Nique]

Maybe men dismiss this concern so abruptly because they know it isn't true, I don't know.

Porn doesn't influence sexuality? I just want to make sure that's what you're saying becuase good or bad I don't see how that's true. And maybe not porn specifically but just sexuality portrayed in media at all I think. I've just never ever taken to the idea that what we consume has no effect on us, whether those effects are good or bad.

[Aerozord]

wish they'd do this for women. Most girls I know look at porn, which is one of the reasons I'm in the camp that women are just as sexual as men just society sckews this fact.

Not that I think this study means anything. There will always be people that view ALL porn as bad even while they secretely view it. Heck there are alot of people that secretely view it because they think its all bad

[Azisien]

Porn doesn't influence sexuality? I just want to make sure that's what you're saying becuase good or bad I don't see how that's true. And maybe not porn specifically but just sexuality portrayed in media at all I think. I've just never ever taken to the idea that what we consume has no effect on us, whether those effects are good or bad.

I'd say it influences us about as much as viewing something violent, etc. Similar argument to violent video games making kids violent in my mind. That is, it doesn't particularly.

[Magus]

There might be an effect for some men, but I don't think in the sense that we would suddenly find our significant others unattractive...then again I maintain low expectations in hope that I myself will not be subjected to having to meet fictional standards of masculine handsomeness or whatever (I'm not going to meet the average male porn star's...assets.)

If anything I would be more worried about maybe someone at a certain age viewing something violent and acting violently, but that would affected both by how the individual views the line between fiction and reality and other factors.

[Krylo]

Personally I'm okay as long as I'm not looked down upon for failing to measure up in some way.

If I'm looking down at you, you're already measuring up.

But for seriously, I don't know. I've yet to be disappointed with sex, and I'm pretty sure the gi... well, ok, some of the girls I was with were a bit on the crazy side, but I mean, I'm pretty sure they weren't all just THAT MUCH KINKIER that they somehow managed to meet my crazy porn inspired expectations, so I think you're right on the last bit of that.

Men just kind of dismiss it because they know they've not been dissatisfied with women for not acting exactly like a porno chick or looking like one or whatever else, so it's like "What?"

Kind of like if some dudes tried to tell you that reading romance novels made all future relationships impossible for women. Most women are just going to be all, "What? No that's stupid."

Kind of the same thing.

[Toast]

Media hyping a psychological study aside, this was very likely just a pilot study to see how well the questions of the interview worked. Also, those 20 university students were likely either his own students or students in the psych department.

There are a lot of interesting, and certainly more complete, studies that have been done and are being done. Unfortunately, getting the full text of psychology journal articles usually requires either a pricy subscription or access to a college library database.

[Sithdarth]

Here is an interesting question. If we're so invested in the ideal of professional pornography with its clearly above standard actors why has amateur pornography always been so popular? Like even in the 80s as soon as people could get a hold of personal video recorders without the need for post production communities grew up around free sharing of amateur pornography. The internet being the den of villainy that it is can generally get you free access to a lot of professional pornography and yet people still flock to amateur communities built on the model of Youtube to the point where professional pay sites are having trouble keeping revenue up. Clearly there is a bit something more here than liking the unrealistic portrayals of the professional porn industry. I think most people only consume the professional product because it was the most visible and widely distributed. It might still have an occasional place in the future but I think by and large it is dieing a slow and agonizing death to the internet and those uninhibited couples that aren't afraid to show off. The whole argument is probably going to be academic in a decade or less as all pornography moves away from the unrealistic professional stuff we've had forever and toward real people getting freaky and letting strangers watch.

[katiuska]

Porn doesn't influence sexuality? I just want to make sure that's what you're saying becuase good or bad I don't see how that's true. And maybe not porn specifically but just sexuality portrayed in media at all I think. I've just never ever taken to the idea that what we consume has no effect on us, whether those effects are good or bad.

No, I see what you're saying, and I'm not 100% comfortable with everything you see in porn (though I have no problem with the concept of watching naked people at heart)... but at the same time very few of the guys I've met were way out there in their expectations for women, so I doubt it's as bad as our deepest fears.

I think our generation had the benefit of more intersocializing (different from how our parents grew up in the 1950s and 60s) and I honestly believe male/female relations are better for it. It's harder to put up the opposite sex as some kind of idealized object when you've had a lot of exposure to girls and boys as real people.

Here is an interesting question. If we're so invested in the ideal of professional pornography with its clearly above standard actors why has amateur pornography always been so popular? Like even in the 80s as soon as people could get a hold of personal video recorders without the need for post production communities grew up around free sharing of amateur pornography. The internet being the den of villainy that it is can generally get you free access to a lot of professional pornography and yet people still flock to amateur communities built on the model of Youtube to the point where professional pay sites are having trouble keeping revenue up. Clearly there is a bit something more here than liking the unrealistic portrayals of the professional porn industry. I think most people only consume the professional product because it was the most visible and widely distributed. It might still have an occasional place in the future but I think by and large it is dieing a slow and agonizing death to the internet and those uninhibited couples that aren't afraid to show off. The whole argument is probably going to be academic in a decade or less as all pornography moves away from the unrealistic professional stuff we've had forever and toward real people getting freaky and letting strangers watch.

I've known at least one person who prefers commercial porn because amateur porn with real couples feels too voyeuristic to him, like he's intruding on someone's privacy. With porn actors you don't really get the sense that anything personal is going on. It sort of makes me wonder if part of the reason commercial porn creates a world that's so far removed from reality is because of some weird cultural inhibition toward seeing real people/people we know in a sexual light.

wish they'd do this for women. Most girls I know look at porn, which is one of the reasons I'm in the camp that women are just as sexual as men just society sckews this fact.

What's funny is that it wasn't always that way. A lot of the humor in Lysistrata (the one where the wives deny sex until their husbands stop warring) comes from the difficulty the women have in staying celibate. Though the ancient Greek view wasn't so much "women are sexual and men are not" (that would make denying sex a losing battle) as much as "men can exert self-control and women can't."

As for women and porn, most women I know enjoy some sort of outlet, though sometimes it comes in a different flavor. For me, at least, I need some kind of context... it doesn't have to be the standard weak porn movie plot*, but there has to be something.

*Which reminds me, I still have yet to make a SFW cut of Ghost in a Teeny Bikini that I can subject the world at large to.

[stefan]

Here is an interesting question. If we're so invested in the ideal of professional pornography with its clearly above standard actors why has amateur pornography always been so popular? Like even in the 80s as soon as people could get a hold of personal video recorders without the need for post production communities grew up around free sharing of amateur pornography. The internet being the den of villainy that it is can generally get you free access to a lot of professional pornography and yet people still flock to amateur communities built on the model of Youtube to the point where professional pay sites are having trouble keeping revenue up. Clearly there is a bit something more here than liking the unrealistic portrayals of the professional porn industry. I think most people only consume the professional product because it was the most visible and widely distributed. It might still have an occasional place in the future but I think by and large it is dieing a slow and agonizing death to the internet and those uninhibited couples that aren't afraid to show off. The whole argument is probably going to be academic in a decade or less as all pornography moves away from the unrealistic professional stuff we've had forever and toward real people getting freaky and letting strangers watch.

I always figured the amateur-over-pro aspect came from how professional porn stars tend to look like horrific porcelain dolls given life by dark magic, whereas amateur stars look like people.

[Sifright]

Surely alot of it is to do with a rapidly fracturing user base, I mean think how many different porn pay sites there are out there the user base hasn't grown by the same amount as the supply base for the material so it stands to reason that as the user base becomes more and more fracturing revenue streams dry up.

[Magus]

That and people aren't going to pay for something they can get for free on Google Videos. Psychological studies of men have shown that physically they can get off to things that don't even nearly approximate "real" people, such as drawn pornography or probably even stick figures or something, so pornography of a "higher" quality isn't really needed to achieve the same effect by any means.

At the end of the day the physical effect is going to be the same whether it's Hi-Def or some grainy amateur bedroom footage, I'm not going to pay for what is a substitute in the first place.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Men watch porn

*Clap*


*Clap*


*Clap*


I am truly stunned...

[stefan]

That and people aren't going to pay for something they can get for free on Google Videos. Psychological studies of men have shown that physically they can get off to things that don't even nearly approximate "real" people, such as drawn pornography or probably even stick figures or something, so pornography of a "higher" quality isn't really needed to achieve the same effect by any means.

well, you miss my point. drawn porn can be titillating because its not trying to be photorealistic. "veteran" porn stars arent unsettling because they seem unrealistic, theyre unsttling because their like some sort of inhuman monster trying to look like a human.

[Masaki-kun]

Uncanny valley, man.

[Premmy]

I don't know much from amatuer porn, so I don't know if it's a valid statement. There's also the factor of Pros not having actual sex. Like, every sex act in porn is done in such a way as to be on display more than it is to give pleasure.

I can't remember where I read this, I know it was a blog about porn, but I saw a post discussing this exact thing where someone said
"I don't lick pussy, I suck pussy"
and that kind of gets to the heart of what I'm saying.