TF2 blog post... conjecture: class update soon?

[Viridis]

Valve put up an interesting little comic (http://www.teamfortress.com/war/administrator/) on the TF2 blog. It makes me think that they'll be updating the Demo and Soldier at the same time. That would certainly be interesting. Any wild guesses as to what they'll be getting.

Couldn't find the old TF2 topic, by the way

[TDK]

Looks more like a competition.

Also the url is teamfortress.com/WAR/administrator

Makes me think maybe some kind of WAR is going on.

It may also involve the class updates yes.

But I think some kind of in-game out-of-mode competition or perhaps just a new game mode is coming.

[Art of Hilt]

Oh my god!
My... my entirely hypothetical DemomanXSoldier fanfic!

One is a disciplined maniac! The other is an alcoholic maniac!
Two worlds collide in a blast of heterosexually-challenged love!

Anyway my guess and hope is for a series of Soldier/Demoman updates, kind of like the Sniper VS Spy thing. Only it's Solider VS Demoman since it's a war and everything.

[Jagos]

War of the projectiles!

YES!

Maybe now the Demoman can shoot straight.

[Aerozord]

considering that ignoring spy, demo and soldier are the best anti-sentry classes, and engineer will be the last updated... wonder if anyone will even still play engineer.

So anyone notice the little in universe things, like "Pits of America" waving a flag saying gravel. Baseball team, Badland Brawlers. Took me a moment to realize when they said mercenaries, they meant the PCs. It is a lovely canon look on the announcer.

On a non-comic update news. They finally put up the walkway, that thing can be very nifty

[PyrosNine]

Maybe now the Demoman can shoot straight.
He'll never shoot straight. Lack of Depth perception!

[Aerozord]

but when you lack depth perception, shooting straight is better

[Jagos]

*sigh* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn3F9FdOiEY)

Quit having fun Aerozord...

[Demonlink2]

I suppose it has something to do with those fancy new sound clips.

Friendship ends in 30 seconds...

[Aerozord]

*sigh* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn3F9FdOiEY)

Quit having fun Aerozord...

NEVER

[The Wandering God]

Possibly a competition to see who gets the class update first?

Also, it's going to be really difficult to be an engineer when this hits. (Unless of course it's also a surprise Engineer update as well.)

[mauve]

Haha, the photos of Soldier and Demo are fantastic. XD I love it.

I have a love-hate relationship with Valve's plotline developments. On the one hand, they're all hilarious and really well done. They put so much time and effort into maintaining interest in a multiplayer game that's already several years old, and they do it well. I love them for that. But at the same time, I really liked the mystery and ambiguity behind the Red-Blu war; the deserted laboratories and faceless Announcer added an element of dark creepiness that contrasted surprisingly well with the cartoonish humor of the game. So I'm not sure how I feel about meeting new employees (the girl in the glasses) and chipping away some of the vagueness and mystery behind Red and Blu's inner workings. (Yes I know I'm a nerd.)


That being said, this comic intrigues me. I'm guessing Demo and Soldier's new weapons or achievements might be geared towards killing each other, specifically. Or maybe Valve got sick of hearing people complain about those two classes being overpowered and is going to pit them against each other. I dunno. But I'm excited.

[01d55]

Saxton Hale is the new items guy, so this has something to do with class packs for sure.

[Demonlink2]

There's something Disney about the announcer
I have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.disneyvillains.net/images/cruella2.jpg

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Saxton Hale is the new items guy, so this has something to do with class packs for sure.

Saxton Hale sells bladder enlarging pills and jars.

[The Wandering God]

Saxton Hale sells bladder enlarging pills and jars.
Don't forget the wide variety of items available in Dapper Rogue: The Catalogue for the Gentlemen Scoundrel (http://www.teamfortress.com/sniper_vs_spy/day04_english.htm)

[Viridis]

Saxton Hale sells bladder enlarging pills and jars.

When not wrestling lions and murdering sharks.

[EVILNess]

Saxton Hale sells bladder enlarging pills and jars.
When not wrestling lions and murdering sharks.

Don't forget just getting in all purpose fights.

[Aerozord]

Possibly a competition to see who gets the class update first?

Also, it's going to be really difficult to be an engineer when this hits. (Unless of course it's also a surprise Engineer update as well.)
theory: they hype it up as a soldier/demo update, then when the first update is supposed to hit soldier and demo explode, angle shift, and we see the engineer pointing and laughing. Stealth engie update

I have a love-hate relationship with Valve's plotline developments. On the one hand, they're all hilarious and really well done. They put so much time and effort into maintaining interest in a multiplayer game that's already several years old, and they do it well. I love them for that. But at the same time, I really liked the mystery and ambiguity behind the Red-Blu war; the deserted laboratories and faceless Announcer added an element of dark creepiness that contrasted surprisingly well with the cartoonish humor of the game. So I'm not sure how I feel about meeting new employees (the girl in the glasses) and chipping away some of the vagueness and mystery behind Red and Blu's inner workings. (Yes I know I'm a nerd.)


personally I view the entire thing as a seperate entity. To me the announcer is, and always has been, an automated alert system. Mostly with the original person long since dead.

[Locke cole]

I have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.disneyvillains.net/images/cruella2.jpg

Neither do I.

http://www.disneybox.com/w/images/1/1d/Mrs_Wilhelmina_Packard_portrait.jpg

[mauve]

Neither do I.

http://www.disneybox.com/w/images/1/1d/Mrs_Wilhelmina_Packard_portrait.jpg

I tried to find a picture of Roz the secretary from Monsters, Inc., but your idea works too.

[Viridis]

I think Roz works best. She's got the spite right.
…Actually, a mixture of all three. The indifference, spite, and crazy all shine through better in different characters.
http://l.yimg.com/eb/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/walt_disney/monsters__inc_/roz.jpg
theory: they hype it up as a soldier/demo update, then when the first update is supposed to hit soldier and demo explode, angle shift, and we see the engineer pointing and laughing. Stealth engie updateThat would be hilarious and would not shock me for Valve.

Edit: Nope, Demo and Soldier both updating (http://www.teamfortress.com/war/part1/index.htm)!
Looks like their items will only unlock for killing the other class. The class that does best overall gets an extra unlock. Wanna take bets on who comes out on top?

Gentlemen, I have NO IDEA what this weapon is. I don’t even know if I’ll WANT it. But BY GOD, I know what’s IMPORTANT, and it’s that WE get it and the DEMOMAN DOES NOT.I love how they write for these two.

[Yrcrazypa]

So it's a dual update, and the competition is whichever of the two classes kills more of the other, that class gets a 4th weapon. Interesting, I personally hope soldiers get it, since they are a bit easier for me to handle than demomen.

[Viridis]

Since both of these classes seem to have the most straightforward play, I really wonder what you could give them as unlockables. I'm guessing they both get a new weapon each day to escalate the war. Gonna be fun times.

Edit: Blog post (http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=3225).

[Jagos]

Just sayin. I want Demoman to win. So... See you all on the battle field.

[Doc ock rokc]

..who wants to bet valve will give the extra weapon to both of them?

[Aerozord]

yea the issue of giving it to just one is not only unfair to the loser, but to every other class in the game. I can garentee there will be a decent number of rage quit to follow

[Viridis]

..who wants to bet valve will give the extra weapon to both of them?
I was thinking they probably will and this is just to get people excited. Otherwise one class will complain about being shafted for all time.

I don't really care who wins. These two might be my least favorite classes as my aim sucks with both of them (low frame rate, not very good at predicting where the opponent will be) and I don't really like the gameplay they offer. Hopefully this update changes that up.

[Kim]

I was thinking they probably will and this is just to get people excited. Otherwise one class will complain about being shafted for all time.

Winner probably gets their weapon for a week before the the other gets their's.

[Doc ock rokc]

Winner probably gets their weapon for a week before the the other gets their's.

or its a shared weapon and it goes on to show that even through war the friendship lives...but your idea is better

[Art of Hilt]

Dear goodness this war is fun.
Bathing in the blood of 59 Soldiers is a terrible joy!

Although.
Seeing their friendship die.
It's kind of heartbreaking, really. I mean look at those photos!

Also, I just realized, but some people are using the Walkway- that map with the bots where you can determine which class they are, and then having them all be, I don't know, Demomen while killing them with Soldiers. That doesn't... Valve would have bot-killing in consideration, wouldn't they?

[Viridis]

Also, I just realized, but some people are using the Walkway- that map with the bots where you can determine which class they are, and then having them all be, I don't know, Demomen while killing them with Soldiers. That doesn't... Valve would have bot-killing in consideration, wouldn't they?

The blog mentioned:
What if some of you try to cheat to bump the numbers? We'll know. (Though we also know many of you won't be able to resist trying anyway.)So probably.

[Aerozord]

the walkway disables things automatically, like acheivements, safe to assume thats disabled too

[Doc ock rokc]

IT seems (by my limited knowledge of skills) both the killer and the killee must have a steam account on in order to count (not friends but logged into a steam account) So boting wont work.

[Wizardcat]

Soldiercat joined this team just to kill maggots like the demoman! Solly needs the new weapon more than the Demo, who is the one class that is overpowered. Have you ever seem comp demo players? :<

And only a few hours into this war, we have suicidal demos and soldiers to get points for the side they support, medics that will not heal one side or the other, and other fun tactics. ...What's that saying? 'All is fair in love and war'? Hah.

Oh, and being a Kritz-medic right now is very awesome. Crit rawkets!

[Jagos]

No, Crit bombs!

[Viridis]

medics that will not heal one side or the other

This is annoying me. I don't play either class that has a stake in this, but still. Medics are vital to a team and this seems like the most annoying kind of passive-aggressive behavior. You saw the same thing during the halo stuff.

I saw a medic named "I refuse to heal soldiers". For that round I went medic and changed my name to "I heal anyone regardless of class"

[The Wandering God]

I'm going to side with Demoman on this one.

Why? Well, Soldier is more balanced, so he doesn't need an extra unlockable.

Whereas anything that will dilute that Scottish Cyclops too efficient weaponry is fine by me. (Besides, we all know Demo is going to win anyway.)

I wonder how the competitive scene is going to take this.

[Mesden]

Same way they took the scout weapons -- be really annoyed at the weapon that isn't broken but has an annoying gimmick (FaN), ban the weapon that drastically and breakingly changes 6v6 mechanics (Sandman) and don't give a hell about the mediocre changes (bonk).

[Yrcrazypa]

It's probably not even going to be a weapon, but by golly I want the soldier to win! Give 'em hell boys!

[Doc ock rokc]

totals are in
http://www.teamfortress.com/images/posts/wartotals_01.jpg
Solders are winning but not by much Keep up the fight Ill join as soon as im done with homework and wrapping

[Aerozord]

I'm not sure I'd consider 100,000 not much

edit: despite the fact my computer has been lagging, what the heck I'll hop on. Some post-exam pwnage will do me good

[Doc ock rokc]

I'm not sure I'd consider 100,000 not much

You sir have not seen a comp level demoman

[Locke cole]

When the total is over 1 million, 100K isn't much. It's under 10% of either class's total kills so far.

[Aerozord]

I saw a single person with 300 kills, makes my 7 look just plain sad. Though I only played about an hour and only about half that time as soldier. Demo spam is indeed cheap around corners

on a barely related note. I saw an interesting combo while playing, medic/medic. One ubercharges the other, who attacks with the ubersaw to charge up his own uber, then they switch

I forgot how nasty a skilled melee medic can be

[Art of Hilt]

Ha ha ha 100 dead Soldiers ha ha ha ha
Okay wow. Kind of a rush.
Although um. When are they going to start showing items?

[Jagos]

Monday, I'm going to assume. I need to kill more soldiers...

[BB]

Considering it's an item that would suit either class, I'm gonna go ahead and say it's probably not a weapon as such. More likely something that has a useful bonus for them both- perhaps a pair of lightweight boots that make rocket jumps go further but hurt more, or similar. It'll have to be something that affects a mutual utility of both classes or it'll unbalance them.

[Jagos]

My problem is that demoman are Damn hard to use.

you need one of the Engie's degrees in physics to really be able to get direct kills with them.

GRRR...

It's almost as if they want the soldier to win.

[Aerozord]

I dont know I think in a real demo vs soldier battle, (I played a match with 10 of each), demo has a massive defensive advantage as they can just spam gernades and sticky bombs. Though not as great of an advantage soldiers are better with attacking since they dont require timing or stationary bombs they can just carpet bomb

[The Wandering God]

New page with the biggest part being

http://www.teamfortress.com/crafting/

Luckily, I have 5 of each item already for just this contingency.

Edit: also hidden page

http://www.teamfortress.com/war/saxtonhale/poopyjoe.htm

Valve confirmed for Gurren Lagann fans.

Must've seen this fan art.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4816/sniper.png

[Art of Hilt]

Dear sweet baby Moses, the Grenade Launcher can shoot six instead of four now!
Six is two more than four!

[Doc ock rokc]

Dear sweet baby Moses, the Grenade Launcher can shoot six instead of four now!
Six is two more than four!

what are you Talking about? Did the demo get a stealth buff?

[Art of Hilt]

I guess so. All I know is that all of a sudden, the grenade launcher took longer to load and longer to run out of rounds, and that's when I looked down at the screen and yeah two extra rounds.
Now it matches the launcher's graphic!
And I could swear that the stickies have gotten either stronger or gotten a larger field, too. Although maybe that is just my imagination.
The grenade launcher thing is a real thing, though.

[Geminex]

This update is awesome. Hell, I don't even own this game (yet, saving for a better PC) but I still love it.

I really like the story updates. Someone mentioned that he preferred the sense of subtle wrongness that came with one announcer for both teams over the current situation, but we're still going to have that sense of wrongness, only it'll be something along the lines of "holy shit, a faceless, enormous corporation is tricking the Teams into fighting for no good reason!" rather than "wait, what?"

Crafting is a really good idea. I'm guessing, if the prize for the war's winner actually is a weapon, then all the other classes will be able to craft that 4th weapon, while soldiers will get it outright. But really, this exactly adresses the complaint about inventories and the uselessness of random drops.

Also, I was recently hit by a realization.
Saxton Hale is the new Chuck Norris.
That will be all.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Sweet Armok Below, Wandering God's pic is giving me La Mulana Hell Temple flashbacks. Excuse me while I have an attack of the jibblies:
JIBBLIE JIBBLIE JIBBLIE JIBBLIE JIBBLIE JIBBLIE JIBBLIE JIBBLIE(and so on)

[The Wandering God]

Also, I was recently hit by a realization.
Saxton Hale is the new Chuck Norris.
That will be all.
You got that mixed up.

Chuck Norris is a pale imitation of Saxton Hale.

[Aerozord]

New page with the biggest part being

http://www.teamfortress.com/crafting/

Luckily, I have 5 of each item already for just this contingency.


gggggGGGGRRRAAAAHHHHH

I JUST DELETED MY EXTRA CRAP

*smashes head into keyboard*

[Geminex]

Chuck Norris is a pale imitation of Saxton Hale.
Sorry, I misspoke. WITH MY BARE HANDS!
That needs to become a meme.

I JUST DELETED MY EXTRA CRAP

...

*pats back*

My sympathies.

...

If I suggested any kind of "idle server" now, would you punch meWITH YOUR BARE HANDS?

[Ryong]

Dear sweet baby Moses, the Grenade Launcher can shoot six instead of four now!
Six is two more than four!

Wait a second, wasn't it originally shooting 6 then nerfed to 4? I remember reading about that somewhere...TVtropes, I think.

[Jagos]

Wait a second, wasn't it originally shooting 6 then nerfed to 4? I remember reading about that somewhere...TVtropes, I think.

Seriously, I'm not seeing it. I can only fire 4. It may be the server you're playing on, Art.

[EVILNess]

i lol'ed when I saw this. (http://www.teamfortress.com/war/saxtonhale/poopyjoe.htm)

[Jagos]

Now I want to own WITH MY BARE HANDS

[Art of Hilt]

Seriously, I'm not seeing it. I can only fire 4. It may be the server you're playing on, Art.

Huh. I guess you're right.
Well, it was fun while it lasted.

[Yrcrazypa]

My problem is that demoman are Damn hard to use.

you need one of the Engie's degrees in physics to really be able to get direct kills with them.

GRRR...

It's almost as if they want the soldier to win.

I thought that too, but with a little bit of practice I easily went from far into the negative K-D ratios, to positive. Same with the soldier.

And people say the pyro is an easy mode class. Takes FAR more skill to do well as a pyro than it does as a demoman.

[Doc ock rokc]

I thought that too, but with a little bit of practice I easily went from far into the negative K-D ratios, to positive. Same with the soldier.

And people say the pyro is an easy mode class. Takes FAR more skill to do well as a pyro than it does as a demoman.

Which is the reason most people are suporting soldier they are tired or geting Demo-nated

[Jagos]

Demo Fortress 2!

You have no idea how funny it is when you're firing grenades, get a kill out of nowhere, then someone steps into your sticky traps for a second kill. I love ceiling stickies.

[Mirai Gen]

Nice trading system, Valve. Good to know after months and months of useless garbage you finally deliver something you never promised.

[Aerozord]

I dont get whats the hold up with the trading system. Its in so many games I cant image them even needing to write any code

[Jagos]

All the different combos have to be taken into consideration I guess?

[Art of Hilt]

First Demoman update out.
Initial reaction:
OhmygodohmygodohmygodOHMYGOD

EDIT- After calming down a bit, I've been giving this some thought.
If you use both weapons, you can be a Demoman with just his Grenade Launcher and a sword (assuming that the shield works like the Sniper's Razorback). I wonder how playing a Sticky Bomb-less Demo is like. The sword and shield combined would have to make him offensive enough to make up for the lack of stickyjumps and trap setting. While the image is immensely cool, I can just imagine the Demoman screaming into battle only to be fucked up by a lone Pyro. Unless the sword has a greater reach than the flamethrower... which, um, would be kind of amazing actually considering that the Pyro was supposed to be the ultimate closerange fighter. So I doubt that's going to happen. Then again, there's the FIRE RESISTANCE. HOLY CRAP. WHAT. DAAAAAMN
The alt-fire of the Shield would basically make it like a Sandman, only instead of a tiny, near invisible ball stunning you, it's a BIG LOOMING DEMOMAN WHO CAN CRIT YOU
THIS
THIS
MIGHT BE OVERPOWERED
I LOVE THE DEMOMAN BUT THIS MIGHT BE A BIT MUCH

[Geminex]

Eh. You're a demoman with decreased hp, hurtling in a straight line (that is to say, you probably won't be in cover) towards your enemy. If you reach him, he's dead. But while you're charging , they'll all be shooting at you, and you don't have protection from bullets. Not to mention that you'll probably be screaming something about bloody one-eyed scottish murder, so they'll hear you coming. It's interesting, though. It makes the demo a much more disruptive class. You're not an ultimate close-range and more someone who, when positioned correctly, can deal quite significant harm...

[Aerozord]

comic is messed up, as according to his bio both the demomans parents are dead.

And yea, this thing just screams overpowered, its another one of those 'why not use it' weapons

[01d55]

And yea, this thing just screams overpowered, its another one of those 'why not use it' weapons
If you pick the sword you are comitting to the shield, and if you pick the shield you give up stickies.

Stickies are huge.

[Art of Hilt]

comic is messed up, as according to his bio both the demomans parents are dead.


To be fair, that bio was on a hypothetical trading card. I don't mind if they can bend the 'canon' a bit, if only so that they can have a character who is the exact opposite of the Sniper.

I mean, think about it.
Parents who still love him?
Parents who actively encourage his bloody career?
Not living in a van, but the opposite of a van?

[Geminex]

Parents who are blind!

As for the demoman, I've been thinking. It doesn't say that they demo's immune to knockbacks, does it? So it might be risky charging pyros or soldiers?

[Art of Hilt]

Yeah, if that's the case, probably.
A Heavy with Natasha would just put the brakes on him, bad.
Demoman would be faster than Scout, sure, but he still wouldn't be able to outrun (Outwit! Outplay! Outlast! Out... something?) bullet.
So I guess there's a ton of counters. Makes it seem a lot less overpowered than one would have thought.

[Geminex]

Yeah. It's still about tactical play, though. Only instead of "where to position my stickies?" it's "Where to position myself so that I may best charge up to my enemies and shove my sword where the sun does not shine?"

[The Wandering God]

I wonder exactly how much health the sword steals at onset and the amount of bonus speed and health it gives.

In any case there can be only one, and HEADS WILL FUCKING ROLL!

Edit: Also, the loss of stickies will make Engineers very happy.

[Jagos]

Demo chargin mah sentry!

[Doc ock rokc]

Im getting the L4d Charger with a sword vibe from this...not that that's a bad thing...it It's just...Wow...(also Im entering the Propoganda contest Ill post a pic later but my Comic looks alot like the Demos)

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Demo chargin mah sentry!

Now that's what I call an UBER CHARGE

[Fifthfiend]

Nice trading system, Valve. Good to know after months and months of useless garbage you finally deliver something you never promised.

I like how now instead of ten million useless goddamn copies of the same weapon, now you get to collect ten million useless goddamn copies of the useless goddamn blueprints for the same goddamn weapon.

[The Wandering God]

Blueprints will also be for hats.

Also, how you obtain blueprints is still all conjecture.

[Mesden]

DEMOLITION man

demolition

urgh

[Fifthfiend]

DEMOLITION man

demolition

urgh

Ha ha ha ha ha

Also, how you obtain blueprints is still all conjecture.

Achievement grinding!!!!

[Aerozord]

on the upside, atleast I hope, you dont need the blueprints to make them, just to know what the result will be. If so then over time people will figure out what makes what

[Mesden]

Ha ha ha ha ha

His entire video was about blowing things up!

[The Wandering God]

So the Demoman gets a melee set and the Soldier gets an OP weapon. (Along with extra crazy in comic form.)

Wow, I'm sure the fanbase is just loving this.

Still, Demoman is fighting back. For the glory of Scotland!

Edit: I know it's been generally assumed that the http://www.invaderzim.tv/images/characters/poopdog2.jpg contest would be decided by the time the patch went live. But I'm starting to think that wouldn't be resolved until 24 hours after the updated weapons come out.

I've noticed a few subtle indications.

From the original post describing the war:
"The more Demomen you kill as the Soldier class will help ensure the Soldier gets the weapon at the end of the week."

Now the update is scheduled for the 17, Thursday isn't the end of the week, friday is. I also know they usually release a second patch right after a major one like a class update. Also, the comics seem to insinuate heavily that the new weapons will be used to decide the winner.

"We'll supply you with the custom built weapons you need to do the job."

I just think it's a possibility.

[01d55]

His entire video was about blowing things up!

Lies! There was a rather lengthy shot of him drinking a bottle of whiskey.

[Doc ock rokc]

So the Demoman gets a melee set and the Soldier gets an OP weapon. (Along with extra crazy in comic form.)

Wow, I'm sure the fanbase is just loving this.

Still, Demoman is fighting back. For the glory of Scotland!

WOO!
I like the soldier's new weapon. can't wait to get my hands on it! It would make Air shots and pyro killings easier.
The comic is hilarious especially when he does the neck snap thing...I wonder if it ever works....
MY poster won't be in the contest. Its taking too long and looks like crap...but you guys deserve this
7069

[Jagos]

Direct Hit looks nice...

[mauve]

I love the latest Soldier comic. It fits his in-game personality so perfectly. XD

[The Wandering God]

Same way they took the scout weapons -- be really annoyed at the weapon that isn't broken but has an annoying gimmick (FaN), ban the weapon that drastically and breakingly changes 6v6 mechanics (Sandman) and don't give a hell about the mediocre changes (bonk).
So where does the Direct Hit fall on these lines?

Still we don't know all the details yet. (I wonder how it will affect rocket jumps, if at all.)

[Jagos]

He takes more damage but flies higher?

[EVILNess]

It will probably be a bit harder to rocket jump since the radius is shorter and he probably will take more damage. I mean I would assume.

[Jagos]

Somehow... This is even more accurate... (http://nerfnow.com/comic/110)

[Ryong]

I'm expecting the Direct Hit to make rocketjumps terrible - they can still be done, but you are sent flying much lower and you take more damage - because it seems REALLY strong. A crit rocket from it should be able to kill ANYONE in a hit but an overhealed Heavy, right? And, really, it'll make killing pyros even easier. A pyro with the backburner is already completely useless against a soldier, now it'll be harder to hit with the faster rocket and you'll also probably miss because it has a smaller blast radius, so pyros are screwed. Even more.

[Mesden]

Presumably, the splash damage does the same amount even if it is a smaller radius, so distance jumps are going to still be possible, but any fancy, quick burst of speed, 27 damage rocket jumps ain't happening.

So where does the Direct Hit fall on these lines?

Still we don't know all the details yet. (I wonder how it will affect rocket jumps, if at all.)

Competitively? looking broken as fuck with a gimmick (Hitting directly).

Though soldiers are creaming themselves because everyone thinks demos and scouts have been overpowered for the last 2 years or something.

[Jagos]

A pyro with the backburner is already completely useless against a soldier, now it'll be harder to hit with the faster rocket and you'll also probably miss because it has a smaller blast radius, so pyros are screwed. Even more.
If you're in front of a soldier with a backburner, you're already doing it wrong. Anything else is adding to the "You're screwed" factor.

Though soldiers are creaming themselves because everyone thinks demos and scouts have been overpowered for the last 2 years or something.

Which would be accurate if every other class weren't overpowered already. I mean really, facestabs? And headshots as a Pyro? I call hax!

[Mesden]

No no Soldier/demo/scout/medic are easily the most powerful class in the game, which is why they're the only ones competitive players use. It's just the soldiers are, generally, the "least most powerful" class in the game.

[Ryong]

If you're in front of a soldier with a backburner, you're already doing it wrong. Anything else is adding to the "You're screwed" factor.!

So when I have the Backburner I'm supposed to magically appear behind people already? Pyros, Snipers and Heavies have the worst unlockables - don't get me wrong, they're not bad, but they're just different weapons compared to the normal ones, whereas most of the other unlockables so far other than the sword & shield are a new, better weapon. So, again, the Backburner provides you with bonus criticals from behind. Okay. Does it provide a means to do use it more easily? Nope. So you'll end up finding enemies head-on at some point while using it and if it's a soldier you may as well run at him doing w+m1 because you'll die? Okay then.

[Jagos]

Okay. Does it provide a means to do use it more easily? Nope. So you'll end up finding enemies head-on at some point while using it and if it's a soldier you may as well run at him doing w+m1 because you'll die? Okay then.

I'm not saying that to be facetious. I'm agreeing that if you meet someone head on with the Backburner, it's a no win situation. I usually retreat with a flare to have them running toward a medic while I live to fight another day. The fact that the regular burner has the CB keeps me more towards that side of the playing field and less like a Spy without a cloak button.

[Aerozord]

anyone notice these updates are an alternative to how people are said to play these classes?
like with soldier "oh nice job hitting the ground next to me" or demo "of course you killed me you were hiding around a corner with stickies". With an update for direct hitting soldiers, and demomen to go w+m1.

I am worried about the soldier update honestly. First off this thing will be nasty on sentries, and engineers already have enough trouble, the other is that those soldiers that have mastered the timing for mid-air hits will be near unstoppable

[mauve]

A pyro with the backburner is already completely useless against a soldier, Only if you rush the soldier head-on. It works okay if you can ambush and/or flank him. You'll probably take some splash damage, yes, but if you're close enough to him, so will he. As long as you can get in close before he notices you and decides you're a threat, using the backburner against soldiers isn't too bad. Not having the air blast is definitely a setback, but it's not impossible. And it's really rewarding when it does work.



Personally, I don't think I'll be using the Direct Hit much. I'm kinda bad. It'll be super helpful for people who are good at precision aiming, and will probably be as fun as hell to pick off airborne people, but I rely waaaaaaay too much on splash damage when I play Soldier.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I'm just wondering if the extra speed/damage output will have any effect on juggling targets.

Juggling is pretty much all I'm good for as a Soldier.

[Jagos]

Will you really need to? It's almost like having infinite crits or something so long as you can aim.

[Mirai Gen]

I'm not saying that to be facetious. I'm agreeing that if you meet someone head on with the Backburner, it's a no win situation.
That's why Valve made the Axtinguisher.

EDIT: Also Doc I really wish you had finished in time, if you could have gotten it properly colored and finished that would have been a fucking hilarious contribution.

[Doc ock rokc]

: Also Doc I really wish you had finished in time, if you could have gotten it properly colored and finished that would have been a fucking hilarious contribution.

I Did finish Only after pulling a all nighter... (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=997746&postcount=4219)
but I lost Big time to the winner
http://www.teamfortress.com/images/posts/poster_1st_small.jpg

[Aerozord]

wait, war points? soldier just got (a total of) 60,000 kills?

[Art of Hilt]

Update:

The Scottish Resistance.
Oh.
My.
God.

EDIT- DUAL WIELD STICKY LAUNCHERS AHA HA HA HA HA

No no wait, scratch that. I assumed it would replace the primary weapon, but it didn't say that. Does that mean there could be two secondary unlocks without a replacement for the grenade launcher? Dang.

[Geminex]

That's what confused me as well. The stickybomb launcher is already being replaced by the targe... And really, it'd be rather stupid if the sticky bomb launcher could be exchanged for two different weapons and players were stuck with the pipe bomb launcher no matter what. But alas, that seems to be the case...

[Art of Hilt]

I think the idea is that you can either choose to be super defensive (Scottish Resistance) or tank up the defense bonuses so you could run into the offense (Targe), but not both. Although, yeah, I was kind of looking forward to having something that is Not Pipe Bomb Launcher.
...
Super secret fourth weapon, you're my only hope.

[mauve]

Oh wow, the demomen made a big comeback on soldier kills!! Come on, Soldiers, keep fighting!!! We can do it!!


Ahem. Anyway. I'm liking the Buff Banner concept, if only for the lol factor. The thought of bugle-playing Soldiers running around the battlefield like freaks amuses me to no end. It'll probably be more useful when paired with the normal rocket launcher than the Direct Hit, since it charges when you deal damage. I wonder if you get assist kills from giving teammates crits. And whether you can fire your primary weapon while you're in that 14-second rage mode or if you have to just sit there with the flag and bugle.

The Scottish Resistance concept intrigues me. On the one hand, setting off stickies at different time does add some tactical advantages. But at the same time, you have to be LOOKING at a group of stickies to detonate them, which means you kinda have to camp around them. I'm the world's biggest faildemo, so I probably won't mess with it too much, but it's certainly interesting.

And as usual, both classes' Achievement names are made of awesomeness.

[Mirai Gen]

That's what confused me as well. The stickybomb launcher is already being replaced by the targe... And really, it'd be rather stupid if the sticky bomb launcher could be exchanged for two different weapons and players were stuck with the pipe bomb launcher no matter what. But alas, that seems to be the case...

I'm pretty sure it is, since they've started doing that with the Sniper vs Spy update. Jarate/SMG/Razorback all take secondary slot, and the pill launcher is too crucial to replace completely.

[Jagos]

I really like all the weapons. But the Demoman got the better end of this war so far.

I may never use the Bugle if you can't hit with it.

Edit - What's with this "Use a grenade to gib a player" thing about?

[Doc ock rokc]

mostlikely a kill taunt

I think they are really going to do the tie thing. I hope it's rocketboots!

[Ryong]

To say the truth, I may start playing Soldier a bit - it's currently my least played class - because of having a rocket launcher that I probably won't suck with. Also, because I like the Equalizer. Always been a fan of "Less health you got, more damage you do" things.

[Doc ock rokc]

http://www.teamfortress.com/images/posts/viday.jpg
10 bucks the Game is tied (http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=3261)

[Geminex]

Edit - What's with this "Use a grenade to gib a player" thing about?

When taunting with the equalizer, the soldier picks a grenade off his bandolier and blows himself and all enemies withing a radius up. Fairly small radius, apparently.

[Jagos]

And Demoman comes around the corner FTW!

10 bucks the Game is tied

Just what Valve would do to make it a no hard feelings. But then they give out a blueprint instead of straight up giving it to us Demomen...

[Aerozord]

"Shoot two non-boosted crit rockets in a row"

I hate luck based acheivments

[mauve]

Wait wait wait. The banner is a secondary slot item? That's the random slot where you equip the bonus medal and such, right? So does that mean Soldier keeps all his weapons AND gets the banner? Similarly, no shotgun replacement? Or is "secondary slot" referring to the shotgun?

[Aerozord]

secondary as in secondary weapon, like how your rocket is your primary

[Doc ock rokc]

WAIT IT ISN'T A TIE! OH GOOD LORD!...How much do i owe now...
Edit and the sandman is nerfed again...Sigh.
Oh But they did the 123 thing for spy and Give his disguises HATS! YAY!

[BB]

Updates to Team Fortress 2 have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The major changes include:

Team Fortress 2

New Content


Added new control point map Gorge

Added new capture the flag map Double Cross

Added item crafting

Added work-in-progress TF Bots for beta testing in KOTH maps (blog post coming with more info)

Added headshot death animations

Added more backstab animations


Soldier

Added 35 new Soldier achievements

Added 4 new Soldier items

Added new Soldier Domination lines


Demoman

Added 35 new Demoman achievements

Added 3 new Demoman items

Added new Demoman Domination lines


Spy

Now pretends to be carrying the weapons & wearables of the target he's disguised as

Moved the Spy's camera-beard to the Misc loadout slot so he can equip it with a hat


Scout

The Sandman now only stuns on a max range hit (when you hear the cheering)

All shorter hits now force the enemy into the thirdperson fleeing state (also removed the damage reduction on them)


Minor changes

Added new options to the Multiplayer->Advanced dialog:

Combat text, which displays damage amounts you do to enemies.

Medic auto caller, which automatically shows you nearby friends at low health.

Heal target marker, which better highlights the target your medigun is locked onto.

Alternative Spy disguise menu, which lets you choose disguises using just the 1-3 keys.

Fixed being able to affect friendly pipes with airblast (they would unstick)

Added recharge sound to abilities with a recharge bar

Fixed attachable wearables not staying on ragdolls

Players no longer see the wearables that are a part of a friendly spy's disguise, fixing various graphical glitches

Added jiggle bones for Pyro's chicken hat

Added 2 new game startup songs


Community Mapmaker requests

Implemented InputSetSetupTime() for team_round_timer (was in the .fgd but never implemented)

Added "SetDispenserLevel" input to cart dispenser (1, 2, or 3)

Stealth Sandman super-nerf! Among other interesting things in bold.

[Jagos]

Should have known... Now we have Jump boots.

Soldier dominations are pretty funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nivv_hgQfU)

Demoman is just drunken win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1AFlX6FYJE)

[Art of Hilt]

OH MY GOD.
I got two of the three unlocks for the Demo and OH MY GOD.
The Chargin' Targe is SO MUCH FUN OH MY GOD.
The increased blast and fire defense is also extremely useful. I actually managed to get OUT of situations where before I would have been completely destroyed, like, I don't know, sticking myself in a room with three Soldiers and a Pyro.
The Scottish Resistance, on the other hand, really is a thinking weapon. It needs a lot of deliberation. It has that weight, you know? Like, you can't use it if you're running around chaotically; you need to be in control, and you need it to maintain control. I haven't been put in a situation where I need to be ultra-defensive, so I haven't used it as thoroughly as the ultra-fun CHARGIN' TARGE AAAAAAAA

I haven't got the Eyelander but that one isn't as different in terms of play style as the other two items, I expect. I'll be torn between it and the bottle, that's for sure- on the one hand, there's a beheading sword, on the other, IT'S A BOTTLE OF SCRUMPY THAT IS. THE. PINNACLE OF BADASS IN MY OPINION.

[Jagos]

Eyelander is the SHIT!

First, it drops you to 150 health. But with each kill, you gain max health AND you become faster. After 4 kills with the Eyelander, you are pretty much as fast as a Scout and deadly with a Targe. I had a friend who played defensively on Badlands with it. I was Pyro for a while. The enemy really couldn't get near the base until he left to go and get some health.

Once you go for the Eyelander, I doubt you'll see the bottle the same way again.

Scotsman ftw!

[Art of Hilt]

After 4 kills with the Eyelander, you are pretty much as fast as a Scout and deadly with a Targe.

Okay wow.
Now I have to keep playing forever until I unlock it.
FREEEEEEDOMMMM

[Jagos]

Oh, after 4 kills?

My health was 210. You gain even more if you kill in rapid succession. Think about the damage you can do when someone's cart pushing...

*shivers*

[Doc ock rokc]

Soldier weapons are nothing to scoff at eather.
The Direct hit is ahuntsman on crack and does some serious damage with teamwork
The Moralbooster IS great if you are with your team nothing is scraryer then 3 minicritn' Heavys and a soldier
Equializer is the exact opposite of the Highlander When low on health you move at about scout speed and always crit 200+hits...Rediculous help and a great escape tool

[Aerozord]

I hate how soldiers where pre-damaging themselves before running out with equalizer for a few reasons. One is they'll last longer if they go out at full health and eventually they will be at that level anyways. The other is dealing with soldiers complaining at a medic for doing his job.

The weapons aren't as bad as I thought. I killed a demo with the eyelander as a medic, drove a few others away.

But either for the first few hours drop rates were unusually high, or I was on a server where it was artificially inflated. I even got my first hat drop.

My only complaint is the the flag. It takes ALOT to get that thing filled up

[Art of Hilt]

Uggggh I'm having a hard time getting the Eyelander. The random drops have stopped being plentiful for me, so I tried doing Achievements.
Let me tell you.
Having just one more Achievement to do, and not being able to do any of them, is the most painful thing in the world.

[Aerozord]

oh anyone find any blueprints for making items? All of mine are just those default ones to get resources

[Ryong]

oh anyone find any blueprints for making items? All of mine are just those default ones to get resources

The wiki is your friend. (http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Crafting)

I'd like to mention that I really didn't see much change on how the game's working with any of the new weapons, so, all's okay. I'd like to add that I can't use the Equalizer efficiently as I always get killed before I get a hit, even if I come at people from behind and they're alone. They always turn around at the exact time. Oh, I'd like to mention something that happened yesterday: I was playing Soldier on pl_Goldrush, defending the last point. I shot four rockets; last two were crit. Got the achievement, was reloading...First reloaded rocket was a crit. Three crockets in a row. What're the odds?

[Aerozord]

when it says class specific weapon do you pick or is it just random?

[Ryong]

when it says class specific weapon do you pick or is it just random?

Random, I believe. Really, it seems there's no use to doing it except for getting hats and then it takes forever for a very random hat.

[Aerozord]

the raw number of items this thing seems to need, you should have all the items by the time you could get them with the crafting system

[BB]

112 items needed to get a hat for a specific class (and you don't get to specify which hat)... Apparently the weapon drop rate is averagely one item every 1 hour 40 minutes, so times that by 112 and that is how long you need to play for to have a 1 in 3 chance of getting a specific hat you want via crafting.

Ouch.

[Jagos]

I'm kinda pissed I threw so many weapons away... *sigh*

[Geminex]

186 hours. That is to say, if you'd need to constantly play for 7 and 3/4 days to get 112 items, on average, and you have no guarantee that they'd be the right items.

You know, Valve, you get all this righteous anger at people who use idlers, but honestly. Don't you think you might be to blame as well?

[Aerozord]

thing is there are 32 unlockable weapons. The chance of not having them all by then is slim

[Geminex]

I thought hats were the primary purpose people would even try to collect this much stuff?

[Mirai Gen]

I loled when Valve said "We're thinking of implementing a system where people just get the weapons."

This is why.

[Jagos]

I thought hats were the primary purpose people would even try to collect this much stuff?

One half of TF2 players got all the weapons. In quadruplicate. One half of the TF2 players got ALLLL the hats. Too many to count.

Valve didn't want to implement a trade system. OHHHHH NO. That's too much work. Instead they smite down upon thee with great vengeance and brimstone, saying "Thou must use our way or thine highway will up and kick your arse"

Valve, come on... Hook a brotha up! Make something that isn't ass complicated that we can use without luck being involved!

[Yrcrazypa]

People are going to go crazy at me for this, but the soldier is WAY easier to play well than the pyro is. For the pyro, you have to be REALLY skilled at the class to do well, the soldier? Step one: Fire rockets at groups of enemies, Step two: Kill enemies. The pyro has to be good at sneaking around behind people, burning them, and then running away. A little bit harder. Rocket Jumping isn't hard either, after an hour or so of playing, I got it down pretty well.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

People are going to go crazy at me for this, but the soldier is WAY easier to play well than the pyro is. For the pyro, you have to be REALLY skilled at the class to do well, the soldier? Step one: Fire rockets at groups of enemies, Step two: Kill enemies. The pyro has to be good at sneaking around behind people, burning them, and then running away. A little bit harder. Rocket Jumping isn't hard either, after an hour or so of playing, I got it down pretty well.

Well I really just don't know what you're talking about at all, so I'll respond in two ways.

The hard truth;

Buuuuuuuuuuuulllshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!~

The nice truth;

Soldier Rockets don't do nearly enough AOE damage to just fire randomly into groups of enemies and get consistent kills.
You need to place your shots well, juggle enemies that get close, manage your very limited ammunition and retreat at the right moments to be good with a Soldier.

It's not easy to be a good Pyro. But it's easy enough to rush in blindly and get some kills, as opposed to Soldier which, barring the enemy having low health will basically get you killed every single time without dealing much damage to the opponent.

[Mesden]

People are going to go crazy at me for this, but the soldier is WAY easier to play well than the pyro is. For the pyro, you have to be REALLY skilled at the class to do well, the soldier? Step one: Fire rockets at groups of enemies, Step two: Kill enemies. The pyro has to be good at sneaking around behind people, burning them, and then running away. A little bit harder. Rocket Jumping isn't hard either, after an hour or so of playing, I got it down pretty well.

So you oversimplify the Soldier's role and overcomplicated the Pyro's.

I would bet money that you flounder at the most versatile rocket jumps, as well (The jumps off walls).

I mean you might not even be wrong. The pyro technically has the ability to rocket jump by airblasting enemy rockets beneath him and crouchjumping, giving him added mobility vs Soldiers. Couple that with airbalsting in general which is harder to aim than regular rockets and direct hits with Flares if that's what you use, and you have a case. The sneaking around and running away thing? Not really.