Poetry Advice: Because I'm a 19th Century Romantic at Heart

[Solid Snake]

I consider myself an above-average creative novelist, but I have virtually no experience writing poetry. In fact, looking back at the few poems I've written (mostly for high school projects, way back in the day) I'd say I'm not terribly proficient with the art form. Novels are structured; there's a certain coherent formula of characterization, plot and conflict that can be rigorously applied. Poems by contrast seem to me to be inherently chaotic and lawless, and subsequently, how could one possibly rate them? How could one know how to write them well? I'm a wannabe lawyer, and rules are my livelihood: I'm the type who would probably exclusively play as lawful (good or evil) characters in D+D games, if I ever played D+D. What use is poetry to me?

Unfortunately however, I've taken a liking to a girl, and she's a huge fan of poetry.
She lives and breathes Shakespeare, quotes poetry at random in conversations, etc. Strangely enough, I'm not looking for a romantic relationship at the moment (particularly a long-distance relationship, which this would be given where I attend law school) and, even if I were, I doubt she'd be interested in me (she's out of my league.) Oddly enough, I think if I were really deadset on seriously pursuing her romantically, I wouldn't even consider this. It's usually too forward an action for me.

Nonetheless, she's hit hard times lately and she's in one of those funks where she doesn't seem to realize just how beautiful she is, and I thought to myself, I could really cheer up by sending her a poem from a 'secret admirer' or something. That might really make her day.

Problem is, my early drafts for said poetry uniformly suck, particularly by my perfectionist standards. I've found that my early drafts either:
A: Really don't capture her uniquely -- this is tough because the personal details I know about her are rather obscure and not easy to detail in the artform, whereas just comparing 'gazing into her eyes' to 'gazing at distant galaxies' or some cliche bullshit is easy (and technically true -- I do really like her, and such lines do encapsulate how I feel around her, but it just doesn't sound specific.)
OR
B: I overcompensate with the personal details, leaving me with an aftertaste that the whole poem comes off as very sappy or with a melodramatic vibe of "you have to marry me someday or I will shed many tears," which really is not what I'm aiming for.

I kind of want to send the message to this girl that she's appreciated, attractive, intelligent and admirable...without going into the realm of creepiness. The inherent problem comes with balancing my desire to keep things friendly (possibly even anonymous) with my desire to at least leave things open enough in terms of a future relationship. If there's any possibility the attraction is shared, I don't want to prematurely shut any doors. At the same time, even if the attraction is shared, a relationship probably wouldn't be feasible for at least a year, if not longer.

So:

1: Is writing a poem a good idea in this circumstance in the first place, or am I treading on dangerous ground?

2: Assuming I go through with the poem, do any of you have any experience and any potential advice on the subject? I could even share my drafts via PM or something (be forewarned: they suck) but really, even just your thoughts on the matter of poetry would help tremendously. (It's strange that I don't really suffer from 'writer's block' when it comes to prose, but I seem to be suffering a 'poet's block' with this project. Any tips to overcome the intimidating blank page?)

3: Is there any style or kind of poem you'd recommend I attempt? Should I be trying for a traditional rhyme scheme, or should I eschew rhyming altogether? Should I aim for the strict formulas of a Shakespearian style sonnet, or should I try something more independent and freestyle?

4: And, strictly for the ladies (or those few men here at NPF who know what ladies want:) Exactly what kind of poetry works to create the desired effect? Where exactly is that fine line between acceptable and unacceptable material? For example, what physical attributes can I compliment in the poem without diving off the deep end? Are words like "ethereal" or "celestial" too strong to use in this context? Would comparing her to a mythological creature or a goddess be too much? And, how do I compliment her without the effusive language sounding fake or trite? (Would utilizing bits of humor allow me to get away with doing so?)


...Thanks.

[Arlia Janet]

I love poetry and have written it for fun since I was little- even though I have gone through phases where I couldn't stand it. My husband is a classics buff who has written several novels and has sold a few movie scripts. He likes ancient poetry but really can't get into anything modern (ironically, he adores Baudelaire who arguably founded modern poetry).
I asked him once to write me a poem, and it was absolutely charming. Why? The structure wasn't cohesive and the rhyme scheme was fractured. The bottom line was that he was sincere and- take note here- confident about it. If you are happy with it, and you are SURE you are happy with it. She will be happy with it too. Be confident. Everything else flows from that.

I leave you with my favorite love poem by Edgar Allen Poe written for Sarah Helen Whitman. It is called To Helen:

Helen, thy beauty is to me
Like those Nicean barks of yore,
That gently, o'er a perfumed sea,
The weary, wayworn wanderer bore
to his own native shore.

On desperate seas long wont to roam,
Thy hyacinth hair, thy classic face,
Thy Naiad airs have broght me home
To glory that was Greece,
And the grandeur that was Rome.

Lo! in yon brilliant window niche
How statuelike I see thee stand,
The agate lamp within thy hand!
Ah, Psyche, from the regions which
Are Holy Land!

[BloodyMage]

1: Is writing a poem a good idea in this circumstance in the first place, or am I treading on dangerous ground?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're interested in this girl, but as of yet you aren't going out with her. Maybe you should express your interest, then write her some poetry after a relationship has been established. It might come off as too much to begin with, but that might just be me.

2: Assuming I go through with the poem, do any of you have any experience and any potential advice on the subject? I could even share my drafts via PM or something (be forewarned: they suck) but really, even just your thoughts on the matter of poetry would help tremendously. (It's strange that I don't really suffer from 'writer's block' when it comes to prose, but I seem to be suffering a 'poet's block' with this project. Any tips to overcome the intimidating blank page?)

Poetry does tend to be more difficult than prose because all of the rules your learn about grammer tends to get thrown out the window in favour of what needs to be said in a short space of time. This leads to things like run on lines, which are pretty much when one sentence just seems to run on for a whole verse. Of course, normal sentences don't rhyme, so sentences are inverted and less commonly used words that do rhyme are used. Most poems tend to be concise and to the point, and while this isn't true of all poems, it might be best to avoid too much detail. I only occasionally write poetry but when I do, I pretty much abandon everything I ever learned in English lit. to do so.

3: Is there any style or kind of poem you'd recommend I attempt? Should I be trying for a traditional rhyme scheme, or should I eschew rhyming altogether? Should I aim for the strict formulas of a Shakespearian style sonnet, or should I try something more independent and freestyle?

Well, this does seem like an expression of love, and love poems are traditionally sonnets, so that leaves you with the choice of Italian sonnets or the Shakespearian sonnet. Given her apparent love for Shakespeare, it might be nice to write one in a similar vein, but be warned Shakespearian sonnets are not easy to write. They have extremely strict line metre's (iambic pentameter) and rhyme schemes. It's also twelve alternative rhyming lines ending in a rhyming couplet that generally sum up the rest of the poem. However since you seem to lack confidence in your own poetry writing ability, I'd suggest freestyle since it would give you a lot more room to be creative without thinking too much about adhering to too many rules. It can even be blank verse so that it doesn't even need to rhyme. If you're worried about it just sounding like a bunch of sentences you can just employ the use of alliteration, assonance, consonance or sibilance to make it smoother and flow better.

4: And, strictly for the ladies (or those few men here at NPF who know what ladies want Exactly what kind of poetry works to create the desired effect? Where exactly is that fine line between acceptable and unacceptable material? For example, what physical attributes can I compliment in the poem without diving off the deep end? Are words like "ethereal" or "celestial" too strong to use in this context? Would comparing her to a mythological creature or a goddess be too much? And, how do I compliment her without the effusive language sounding fake or trite? (Would utilizing bits of humor allow me to get away with doing so?)

Have you read Shakespeare's sonnets? The large majority of them are ridiculously sexual, with some of them being more subtle than others. Sonnet 20 in particular has ridiculously sexual undertones, whereas the ever famous sonnet 18 employs those sort of lofty ideas of love and women being like nature or other wonderful things. It really depends on the girl. You know her better than we do, so I can't say whether she'll find sexual undertones to a poem endearing or creepy. The use of language and metaphor probably varies from poem to poem. For instance if you're writing a Shakespearian sonnet to use of effusive language and comparisons to myth would probably work, but in free verse they might seem out of place, although applying wit to your work would probably allow you to get away with it.

[Solid Snake]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're interested in this girl, but as of yet you aren't going out with her. Maybe you should express your interest, then write her some poetry after a relationship has been established. It might come off as too much to begin with, but that might just be me.

Sort of. We've been friends for some time and we've actually conversed about (and joked on) sexually provocative subjects, which is probably why I feel more comfortable with the prospect of writing her poetry than I would if she was a mere acquaintance who I found very attractive. At least one mutual friend has commented to the effect that she might be attracted to me. A relationship has definitely not been established, though whether that's because she isn't remotely interested in me or whether it's just because of the distance between us isn't known.

I will say that I'd feel entirely comfortable writing her the poem as an anonymous gift from an admirer on Valentine's Day, or something: I'm more interested in giving her the message that she's beautiful and intelligent and valued than having to let her know who it's from.

Have you read Shakespeare's sonnets? The large majority of them are ridiculously sexual, with some of them being more subtle than others.

Yeah I mean the thin line I have to dance around is that I want to be as effusively complimentary to her as possible, in regards to all her attributes -- including her physical appearance, as when she's feeling down she can say ludicrous things about herself. But I have do compliment her without actually coming off as a perverted deviant or (perhaps more importantly) without coming off as someone who's actually sexually pursuing her with unrealistic expectations. Hopefully I'll figure out where the line is and write material that I'm comfortable sharing.

[Seil]

1) Yes, and yes. It's a really sweet idea, but at the same time if you're caught as this secret admirer, and she's interested, it could lead to some hurt feelings, especially since you say you don't want a relationship. Or there's the possibility of aboslutely no notes coming through after you've up and left, so she either figures out it was you, or she gets heartbroken as her admirer doesn't admire her anymore.

So you've got to make it a one-shot deal, and you've got to be careful about getting caught, and talking about it afterward.

But anyways:

A rose can smell bittersweet
Chocolate but a tasty treat
Love is my only great feat
Just listen to my heartbeat

[Solid Snake]

Well, at long last, I finished my poem!
If anyone wants to read it and offer constructive critique let me know. (PM me or something, and I'll send you the poem through PM.) I'm just kind of glad after a week of rather dedicated effort on the sucker I finally finished something I'm (fairly, if not excessively) proud of.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

My mother is a professional poet- I like to think I've picked something up.
Firstly- the romantic movement was terrible! Don't be like them.
Secondly and most importantly- when you are starting, write out your scansion. Most starting poets just worry about rhyme schemes or syllables per line but this leads them into terrible sounding poems. Don't worry about the formalised rules as much as how it reads, how the stresses fall down. I guarantee it will sound better even if you break some formalistic rules.

[Seil]

Just heard this a few days ago. It put Suzanne Vega on my top five list.

The soldier came knocking upon the queen's door
He said, "I am not fighting for you any more"
The queen knew she'd seen his face someplace before
And slowly she let him inside.

He said, "I've watched your palace up here on the hill
And I've wondered who's the woman for whom we all kill
But I am leaving tomorrow and you can do what you will
Only first I am asking you why."

Down in the long narrow hall he was led
Into her rooms with her tapestries red
And she never once took the crown from her head
She asked him there to sit down.

He said, "I see you now, and you are so very young
But I've seen more battles lost than I have battles won
And I've got this intuition, says it's all for your fun
And now will you tell me why?"

The young queen, she fixed him with an arrogant eye
She said, "You won't understand, and you may as well not try"
But her face was a child's, and he thought she would cry
But she closed herself up like a fan.

And she said, "I've swallowed a secret burning thread
It cuts me inside, and often I've bled"
He laid his hand then on top of her head
And he bowed her down to the ground.

"Tell me how hungry are you? How weak you must feel
As you are living here alone, and you are never revealed
But I won't march again on your battlefield"
And he took her to the window to see.

And the sun, it was gold, though the sky, it was gray
And she wanted more than she ever could say
But she knew how it frightened her, and she turned away
And would not look at his face again.

And he said, "I want to live as an honest man
To get all I deserve and to give all I can
And to love a young woman who I don't understand
Your highness, your ways are very strange."

But the crown, it had fallen, and she thought she would break
And she stood there, ashamed of the way her heart ached
She took him to the doorstep and she asked him to wait
She would only be a moment inside.

Out in the distance her order was heard
And the soldier was killed, still waiting for her word
And while the queen went on strangeling in the solitude she preferred
The battle continued on (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i6O-WelWgE&feature=related)

[Geminex]

I got that from a friend, a while ago, actually. Wonderful song. Gives me goosebumps.

Anyway, this advice is late, but I did something similar for a friend of mine (the same friend that sent me the song, actually), a while ago. Irony was a very good tool here. Every two lines I'd mention a trait (intellect, musical talent, I believe I also praised her eyes), but instead of going through with the praise, I'd either literately stumble
(... like the sound of the bells of... some place where the sound of bells is considered very sweet indeed")
or I'd mention some minor fault and emphasize that. I knew her fairly well, and she knew what I meant, but I'm not a sincere, straightforward person. This way I managed to convey what I wanted to say, upheld my policy of using sarcasm in everyday situations and made her burst out laughing in biology class.