Still not ginger (Thenew doctor who thread)

[Professor Smarmiarty]

So the new doctor who starts tommorow night. Anybody else excited? Any predictions?
They playing End of Time on tv here- I'll miss Tennants tearing apart of the scenery.

[Flarecobra]

I looked around on BBC America here, no sign of the new one sadly.

It's the "Ghost of Mars" episode. The one with the water zombies.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

That's a way behind....
I'm sure someone will post it somewhere after it runs tommorow though.

[Mike McC]

I looked around on BBC America here, no sign of the new one sadly.It'll air on April 17th, I believe. Not as fast a turnaround as for The End of Time, but still rather quick.

From the impressions I've gathered so far, Matt Smith's Doctor is closer in style to Tom Baker's Doctor (with just the right amount of bonkers), and that the stories may also match the darker feel of a lot of the Baker era eps. Also, Moffat seems to be deemphasizing the Sonic Screwdriver (yay!), so I am looking forward to this after RTD's reign of terror.

Seen shots of the new Tardis control room, and... it's... um... holes.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I hate that screwdriver so much. I've heard that in this one they going to explore much more of the tardis, like some of the older doctors did.

[Mike McC]

I hate that screwdriver so much. I've heard that in this one they going to explore much more of the tardis, like some of the older doctors did.RTD overused the Sonic Screwdriver so much, he had to INVENT something to sorta de-deus ex machina the damn thing, the Deadlock Seal. Though, if you'll note, in Moffat's episodes already made he kind of avoided using it much. To be honest, I'm kinda hoping he'll do like they did with the Fifth Doctor, and outright destroy the screwdriver.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

He already destroyed it once. He just built another.

But yeah, only an hour and fourty-ish to go now. I dunno what to expect from the new guy, so I'm not expecting anything. My opinions are non-existant. And if it turns out crap, well Pans Labyrinth is on later, so that should balance things out.

[Regulus Tera]

RTD overused the Sonic Screwdriver so much, he had to INVENT something to sorta de-deus ex machina the damn thing, the Deadlock Seal. Though, if you'll note, in Moffat's episodes already made he kind of avoided using it much. To be honest, I'm kinda hoping he'll do like they did with the Fifth Doctor, and outright destroy the screwdriver.

http://application.denofgeek.com/images/m/whoshoot/as5-filming21.jpg

Nope.

Also, not talking specifically about this forum, but I find it funny how it's two hours til transmission yet the Moffat era backlash has already started.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Preview in guardian said they had seen it and the episode was good. No details allowedthough.

[Regulus Tera]

I'm talking about the shithole that is Outpost Gallifrey Gallifrey Base at times. No wonder they made Helen Raynor cry.

[Mike McC]

Nope.Yes, I am well aware that it's staying around for now. I'm saying that I'm hoping he'll destroy it completely in the future. I mean, it wasn't until his fourth serial that Davison lost his screwdriver.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

5 minutes in and not liking doctor so far. There is just something offputing about him.

Edit: That was odd, all felt a bit frantic really, bit all other the place, same as the doctor. But why is a wall clock connected to the internet?

[Borealis]

The new TARDIS is beautiful. Almost steampunk, actually, but mixed with modern styling. Sorta.
I quite like Matt Smith as the Doctor. Being the first episode, it's hard to make a proper judgement, but I think I'm gonna enjoy this series more than the last few.

[Regulus Tera]

I loooove the new TARDIS theme, even if I don't quite like the new intro.

Anyway out of here until they post it on Youtube.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

For shame NPF!

Of course he's gonna lose the screwdriver. He freakin' gives it away! Doesn't anybody remember Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well he's already blown up one and then got a new one again by episode's end...

[Regulus Tera]

http://i42.tinypic.com/axo3kj.gif

look at them legs

[Carade]

I kind of like the new direction this new season is taking. Feels a lot more modern.

[Regulus Tera]

Holy. Freaking. Shit.

The good: Matt Smith. Holy crap, he knows how to act. He's very physical, he's very spastic, he's the Doctor on crack and yet he still figures out how to save the world at the end of the day. There's a certain joy that reminds me of Tennant, but the way he delivers his lines, with the tongue-in-cheekiness yet still diligent and always two-steps-ahead-of-you that Tom Baker used to show.

Karen Gillian. God she's gorgeous. And she manages to ventilate her frustration at the Doctor leaving her alone for twelve years without resorting to the melodramatic shouting of Rose and Donna. And she's gorgeous.

Little Amelia Pond. She's probably my favourite character of the episode. I find it difficult to believe this little girl's first acting-gig was here. She's a natural born actress.

Rory, whoever the fuck he is, is clumsy-yet-adorable enough for me to totally buy his character, unlike a certain Elton from Love & Monsters.

The cinematography. That's movie-quality. I like how it totally accomodates the script even during the slow moments, like little Amelia waiting in the garden for the TARDIS to come back. Whoever directed this must be commended.

The script. You know, I think I may have found my favourite Moffat script so far. I used to regard The Girl in the Fireplace as the Moffat story with its mixup of emotion and action and fear factor, but this one doesn't give you a moment to breath even when the plot has to settle for the small touching moments.

Murray Gold. Good old lovely Murray Gold, I don't get the hate you fuckers have for him. Best score in an episode yet.

Shit, I could go on and on. This is the kind of Doctor Who I became a fan of. The Eleventh Hour is easily in my Top Ten stories of all time.

The bad: The title sequence. For an episode that never stops its punches, the introduction credits are too slow. The previous series' title sequence had a more pumping velocity.

This is my favourite new-Doctor opening story of all time. The pacing is ridiculously fast, without ever leaving you behind. The action never stops. This is an RTD script through the lenses of Moffat. This is good writing.™ 10/10

P.S. The eyeball scared the shit outta me.

[Carade]

I agree, little Amelia Pond was absurdly precious.

I actually felt pretty bad for her when she didn't get to travel in time.

[Kim]

Liked this episode a lot. Not one of my favorites, but still really good. Looking forward to this season even if I'm not sure I like the weeping angels coming back.

[Mike McC]

But why is a wall clock connected to the internet?Time server. Automatically syncs so it's always the correct time. A very useful and likely important thing to have inside of a hospital.

Anyway, this was like a breath of fresh air after the quagmire that was the lows of RTD's froof writing. Matt smith proved himself worthy of the role quite well, and his preformance has me hooked, waiting for future episodes.

From the clips shown at the end of the episode, it looks like the stories in this series are going to be a lot more imaginative and varied than the past few series, too.

[BitVyper]

Yeah, this is definitely giving me an optimistic outlook on this season.

[Carade]

Something I've noticed upon a repeat watching, the soundtrack is a bit more Mass Effect-y. Still has a basis in Doctor Who, but still.

I like it.

[G.I.R.]

I liked the Episode... hated the opening credits and am not a fan of the new opening song at all. But I liked Matt Smith. Not as much as David Tennant. But I thought he did a very good job.

The one thing in this episode that I did not like, at all, was the part of the episode where The Doctor suddenly puts everything together and they go through that whole stop motion move from person to person with camera noises thingie. It really bugged me and I'm hoping it was a one time thing and not something they plan on using every episode.

[Archbio]

Even the "Coming Soon" trailer at the end was epic.

No complaints! I mean, hell, even the skirt was explained!

[Flarecobra]

It's on now, for the US.

Interesting redo of the opening crawls, though I don't know about the new logo...

EDIT: Hmmm... this one was quite interesting. I liked the effect at the end though Where he challanged the Annexians (I think that's their name. Please correct me if I am wrong.) started to go though Earth's history, and realized that they were in the wrong with threatening Earth

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

So, last nights ep; Thoughts?

Personally, I am NOT liking these New Daleks. They're so fat and stupidly colourful, they look more ridiculous than ever. Bah, stupid design is stupid!


But next week should be good, with the return of River Song and the Weeping Angels.

[Borealis]

I think they're supposed to be retro, Hawk... Not too sure, though.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I not get to watch it till Wednesday when i return from hols. But then all my thoughts shall be revealed. My impression from the ads is that the makers have read my essays on how the allied forces were far more of an evil empire than the Nazis and thus are making that point by aligning them with the Daleks. It could happen....

[Mike McC]

There my be need for two threads, or at least greater clarification, because the US is now airing the episodes, on the same night as the BBC, they're two episodes behind. So, having crossing discussions might be a bit confusing.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I think they're supposed to be retro, Hawk... Not too sure, though.

Yeah I get that, but retro just looks stupid. I know they used to be different colours, but they generally seemed at least a bit more subdued than this lot. I didn't mind the red Supreme from Stolen Earth, but compared to the red one from last night with his much brighter colouring, it just looks tacky and wierd. Then add the even brighter orange and yellow on top and it's almost laughable.

And then there's the fatness. They actually look fat, as in obese. I cannot take an obese Dalek seriously, no matter how threatening the voice.

[BloodyMage]

I think I'd have preferred if there were just a few variations in the colours of the Daleks, but the whole every colour of the rainbow thing did make it look a bit silly.

[Regulus Tera]

New Dalek design is great. That episode was a great romp.

I was kind of disappointed with The Beast Below. It needed to be a two-parter.

[Steel Shadow]

Finally got the chance to see the series so far recently, so thoughts:

Episode 1: Great. Interesting way of introducing the new companion, fun episode.

Episode 2: Hooo boy. I have ranted at great length to friends and family about how terrible this one was. I wont put you guys through that. To many plot holes, to many threads left dangling, overuse of the writers standard plot devices (Hey! Here's a normal thing that's scarey now!) that served no purpose in the ep, trying to pass off the dilema as a great moral choice everyone had failed, and the Doctor getting high and mighty on the entirety of the human race.

Yes, that was me being brief.

Also: "We don't ever, ever interfere, no matter what." :rolleyes: Bollocks. Moving on.

Episode 3: Another good episode! Sure, some minor plot holes (Wait, there are bombers due in your city in 10 mins, but in that time you can fit planes with anti-space-whatsits, send said planes up into space, have a firefight with a spaceship that was on the other side of the moon not to long ago, and get the job done juuust in time to stop the major bombing) But I can accept those for a story. The raising the flag on a random sandbag for no reason bit was... stupid, but meh. But the characters were fun, the plot was fun, the enemy plan was original... I liked it, hope the season keeps up the good work.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm not really sure of the point of that whole girl and her man in the forces subplot.
And do we need to see those cracks in every bloody episode.
Also you can watch Doctor Who on the BBC website (though maybe you need to have UK based proxy- not sure), that where I watched this one.

[Preturbed]

Going to keep it short and simple today:

I hate the iDaleks.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I think my brain melted due to the sheer ridiculousness of it so I forgot but what the shit ws that think that you are human and your robot body/bomb can't be controlled. I mean fuck.

[Carade]

I hate cliffhangers.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Did anything happen in this episode? I don't think it did.

[Steel Shadow]

There was a lot of tense bits? I liked it well enough. Currently debating weather he really deserved to give that little speach at the end or not though.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Also how stupid are they not to catch the two-head thing? I said it straight as he mentioned the race having two heads- surely one of them should have got it.

[Steel Shadow]

I think we can forgive most of them for being a little stressed and not paying much attention to the Doctor. I know I missed it when he said it, which is disapointing since usually I catch these thing. The Doctor himself though, no, he knew and he screwed up, but he did own up to it.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Also thought about it a bit mroe, why didn't angels disable each other by looking at each other like happened in Blink?
And that radio bit really annoyed me, much more scary thinngs you don't understand than things you can talk to and reason with. Wish they hadn't gone that route.

[Steel Shadow]

...Good question. It helps a little that they mostly only move in the dark, but it got hectic at the end, not sure that stuck.

And yeah, talky thing muuuch less scarey than non-talky. But it did give them the excuse to start killing properly (though I'dve thought they could get by with just the one voicebox whatsit). It's been pointed out to me that their method of killing people is pretty lame.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Pretty nonsense episode but last 10 minutes totallyworth it.

[BloodyMage]

I liked it.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I think my biggest problem was the whole Angels will think you are looking at them. That makes no sense to me. Can they now actually move when you are looking at them but choose not to?
It was supposed to be some sort of quantum observer thing- that doesn't decide whether you are looking at them or not.

[Steel Shadow]

The quantum defense doesn't make sense anyway, really. But yeah, so.. they have no problem moving around all over the place when you blnk, but if you're wandering around with your eyes closed... Ah forget it.

Aside from that, decent episode. Amy's cool. Next weeks looks interesting.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I a little bit apprenhensive about picking up Amy's fiancee. He was a bit of a wet sponge when we last met him.

[Steel Shadow]

True, but the preview is enough for me to give him a second chance.

[Carade]

The part where they made out was totally rad.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Did you see the special x-rated edition? Cause it didn't really happen.

[Borealis]

I love how Moffat rid himself of everything (I think?) Davies by having time/non-time/whatever eat it.

But these cracks are supposed to be the arc of the series, right? Each series has one, so unless I'm missing one, it means that the Doctor 'n' pals are actually investigating something instead of going "Let's see where the TARDIS takes us today!". Which I am rather happy about; there's an on-going storyline this time!

[Regulus Tera]

I'm thinking the crack was a red herring, and the real series arc is... something else.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

We've spent a long fucking time on it if it is a red herrings.

[The Wandering God]

Terry Pratchett weighs in (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/tvandradioblog/2010/may/04/terry-pratchett-ludicrous-doctor-who) on the current Doctor Who writing... and it isn't pretty.

While he does make some valid criticisms, he also says that he still enjoys it.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Doctor Who is cheap shlocky melodrama? Who knew!
That's most of the charm.

[Kim]

I will say, it's certainly better than when RTD was writing the melodrama...

Except The Beast Below... Fuck that shit.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The Beast Below would have worked better as a multiparter.
Maybe.

[Kim]

The Beast Below would have worked better as a multiparter.
Maybe.

The Beast Below might have worked if it were two separate episodes with nothing to do with each other, and minus the goddamn stupid nursery rhyme nonsense crammed in at the beginning and the end. The Smilers get their own episode, and the Beast gets it own episode. At least then we aren't left with a bunch of stupidly pointless plot elements. Or fewer.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Hahahaha, I'd blanked those stupid smiler things from my mind- which shows how totally correct you are.

Edit: Nenw episode. Rory, such a nong. I hope he dies.

[BloodyMage]

I really wouldn't mind if he died.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Still got stupid screwdriver shenaigans. Like the screwdriver can open the first gate that the Doctor could easily climb (so they didn't need it to do this to advance the script) but couldn't open the grate lock.

[Carade]

I wasn't a fan of this episode. Felt pretty filler-y.

Next week's episode looks like the cat's pajamas though.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah this is probably my least favourite episode from... well, all of New Who really. There just didn't seem to be anything going on with any of the characters. No emotion from any of the actors, the script was mediocre or terrible at best and felt very forced in parts. And WHAT was up with the direction here?? Seriously I couldn't even figure out where people kept dissapearing off to between scenes or anything. Seems like they had a bunch of shots leftover from other episodes and just threw them all together in a semi-coherent manner on this one.

Real messy.

But next week looks promising. Perhaps this seasons Blink.

[Steel Shadow]

I liked some of the character moments (Doctor popping out of the cake at the begining was a great bit), and I think the actors did a decent job, but the script was more watery than Venice. "We. Are. Venicians!" Seriously? The Sonic Screwdriver aparently heals people in addition to Smartys complaints, that guy was killed by a *mirror*, and how the hell did that sight filter go nuts (after a very, very contrived lucky kick) and stick the old woman as she was even after it was taken off?!?. The Direction was terrible, as was the editing which should have fixed it, and the last lines were unnecisary (really guys, it's silent, we get it, you talked about this 10 mins ago).

It's too bad. It had good elements, but it was just lain lackluster in the end. I echo the interest in next weeks episode though.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I've just realised how much this season sucks total codswallop

[BloodyMage]

Yeah, I kinda liked the Doctor deciding to blow up the Tardis. That was at least unexpected, but this episode, and a lot of the season thus far has been largely...meh.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Nah I picked that double dream shit in like 30 secons, same with the Weeping Angels statues things and I'm not that good at these things normally. Better writers required plz.
And the whole Amy and her emotions shit is terribly written, though after this episode I think we should move past it cause it seems resovled.

[Steel Shadow]

Yeah, it's always a double dream. Honestly, I read your comments about how this was a terrible season before I saw the show, and really hoped I'd be able to defend it, but no, that was really pretty terrible. The ending was.. ok, but the rest was worse than venice. Honestly...

But there was one thing that occured to me that *might* make that all worth while. The dream Lord... was that Valeyard?

[Kim]

Finally started watching the Vampires of Venice and uuuuuuuughhghghhghgh and then I have the next episode to look forward to watching and uuuuuuuuughghghghhghghg

EDIT: Holy christ that drowning scene is just so incredibly awful I mean goddamn

EDIT: Episode was pretty shite, but I still don't think it's the worst of New Who. Someone has obviously forgotten The Doctor's Daughter, for example.

[Carade]

Am I the only one who thought it would've been the greatest thing ever if the episode/series just ended after he blew up the TARDIS?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

EDIT: Episode was pretty shite, but I still don't think it's the worst of New Who. Someone has obviously forgotten The Doctor's Daughter, for example.

I can't compare this episode to imaginary episodes that live in your head.

Am I the only one who thought it would've been the greatest thing ever if the episode/series just ended after he blew up the TARDIS?

Yeah that would have been sweet.

[Kim]

This episode wasn't as bad as you lot made it out to be. It's not great, and not something worth looking forward to, but it was hardly awful. I mean, as much as this season is kind of a letdown, I still think it's better than the majority of Season Four. Beast Below still suuuuuuuuuucked though.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It was more hte tipping point when I suddenely looked at season as a whole and was like "Oh shit, this is bad".

[Viridis]

Finally got around to watching Blink. Yes, just now. Screw you Steven Moffat and your terrifying-slash-awesome episodes.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Bit of an odd episode, whole thing setting up for next episode. Have to see.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

This one wasn't too bad, mainly cos it was nice to see the Silurians return. Besides the Daleks they're the only enemy I ever remember seeing from Old Who and I liked them, so I've been waiting for them to come back for a while.

They also seem to really despise humans too, which not many other aliens do very well.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

They are a good enemy but I thought they were all supposed to be asleep.

[Green Spanner]

They are a good enemy but I thought they were all supposed to be asleep.

Obviously they woke up.

Probably due to some kind of drilling maybe, I dunno.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah I kinda thought that bit was obvious from the, ya know, plot and all.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

So the drilling not only woke up an entire city but they had time to get their entire city up and running again, with lights and major activities and all.
That is not a city that just been woken from hibernation.

[Green Spanner]

So the drilling not only woke up an entire city but they had time to get their entire city up and running again, with lights and major activities and all.
That is not a city that just been woken from hibernation.

Maybe they had been drilling for a long time. Y'know, like they said they had.

[Kim]

Just started watching the ep, not very far in, but I wager that the engagement ring is either a big deal for this episode, or for the over-arching plot of the season. Probably the diamond that was used for it or something, even.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

We drill shit all the time without waking up lizard people so one can assume it only when you go really deep which wouldn't be that long. And considering the lizard people could go from the bottom of the hole to the surface in a few minutes I'm wondering why they didn't do that straight away instead of waiting around for months/years where the drill could come and destroy them.
It don't make no sense.

[Green Spanner]

We drill shit all the time without waking up lizard people so one can assume it only when you go really deep which wouldn't be that long.

Maybe it's because they were drilling directly on top of the underground lizard-city that it woke them up.

And considering the lizard people could go from the bottom of the hole to the surface in a few minutes I'm wondering why they didn't do that straight away instead of waiting around for months/years where the drill could come and destroy them.

Maybe they spent that time getting their society up and running.

Can't believe I'm defending Doctor Who science here...

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Good to know they got their priorities sorted- focusing on the economy/society in the face of a drill coming to eat their face.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

You know it's not hard to wake up in a morning and switch the lights on in your house. Seeing as we barely saw much of the city at large we can't assume just how much of it has woken up. All we know is "drill woke aliens up", "aliens woke up", "did stuff". I duno about you, but I can do quite a bit within the first hour or so I wake up in the morning and seeing as the first human to be captured was taken in the middle of the night I'm guessing they've been awake for a few hours by now.

Seriously, what is the problem with the logic here? Honestly sometimes I think people on this site just want to find problems with stuff.

[Green Spanner]

Good to know they got their priorities sorted- focusing on the economy/society in the face of a drill coming to eat their face.

Well, we only saw lights and major activities going on. Perhaps they only got the war-oriented parts of their society up. If you're going to wage war on surface dwellers, you'll need some kind of infrastructure up and running.

Though I'll admit I'm mostly guessing at this point.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You know it's not hard to wake up in a morning and switch the lights on in your house. Seeing as we barely saw much of the city at large we can't assume just how much of it has woken up. All we know is "drill woke aliens up", "aliens woke up", "did stuff". I duno about you, but I can do quite a bit within the first hour or so I wake up in the morning and seeing as the first human to be captured was taken in the middle of the night I'm guessing they've been awake for a few hours by now.

Seriously, what is the problem with the logic here? Honestly sometimes I think people on this site just want to find problems with stuff.

Let's just say there is adiffernece between you waking up after an 8 hour sleep and an entire city waking up after a sleep of some 40 million years.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yes, but assuming they're using some super-advanced form of cryo-stasis to keep themselves alive all that time, it probably IS like just waking up after an 8 hour sleep to them.

They woke up, had a few hours to do shit, and then invaded the surface. What is the problem with that?

[Kim]

Really liked this episode. Don't really have any major complaints, other than the Doctor letting Timmy fall down the well was kind of dumb. Didn't like that Rory actually tries to be useful for once and the Doctor just told him to shut up. I mean, I hate Rory, but I probably would have hated him less if he was useful on occasion. It's also nice to have an episode that doesn't revolve entirely around Amy for once. She's important, but she isn't the focus. My biggest complaint with New Who is how the universe is always revolving around his latest companion.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Yes, but assuming they're using some super-advanced form of cryo-stasis to keep themselves alive all that time, it probably IS like just waking up after an 8 hour sleep to them.

They woke up, had a few hours to do shit, and then invaded the surface. What is the problem with that?
THe problem is that its fucking stupid.

Really liked this episode. Don't really have any major complaints, other than the Doctor letting Timmy fall down the well was kind of dumb. Didn't like that Rory actually tries to be useful for once and the Doctor just told him to shut up. I mean, I hate Rory, but I probably would have hated him less if he was useful on occasion. It's also nice to have an episode that doesn't revolve entirely around Amy for once. She's important, but she isn't the focus. My biggest complaint with New Who is how the universe is always revolving around his latest companion.
I agree, alongside all the love interest that goes on with pretty much all of them. Companions are really there to give the Doctor someone to exposit to and I'm happy with them in that role.

[Arhra]

Hahahaha, I'd blanked those stupid smiler things from my mind- which shows how totally correct you are.

Edit: Nenw episode. Rory, such a nong. I hope he dies.

You have to admit the look on the Doctor's face when he was demanding an explaination from those two smilers and then their boxes suddenly opened and they stood up was pretty classic though.

But these episodes are highlighting a bit of a problem with the current Doctor Who - the writers are sacrificing overall consistency for point to point drama. And this tends to undermine the plot as a whole.

Oh look, now the angels will freeze if you look like you can see them because it's scary if you have to walk between a bunch of them while blind!

Same with the smilers - they'd have been pretty nifty if there'd been any reason for them to exist. I liked Amy's little revelation at the end... but a lot of stuff about the episode turned out to have no explanation at all.

Or "Hey look, just using a mirror to kill a thing works now for some reason!"

They are getting better with properly setting up the ending though. Even if the logic is sometimes shaky (like that whole perception filter thing).

I didn't mind Vampires in Venice although yeah, like I said, inconsistencies abound. It's nice to see the villains trying to talk the Doctor over, although the interactions were messed up in this case.

[Carade]

I think the problem with the new season of Who is that it isn't quite as... intimate as the last seasons were. I don't know why, and it may very well just be me, but the new characters feel like they're being kept at arms length.

That doesn't make it bad, I'm just not as emotionally invested in the new characters as I was with Rose, Captain Jack, Martha, or Donna. Maybe I just have a problem with change, or maybe I just need to give the show a little more time. But it's still enjoyable, and that still makes it aces in my book.

[Kim]

I agree, alongside all the love interest that goes on with pretty much all of them. Companions are really there to give the Doctor someone to exposit to and I'm happy with them in that role.

This was what made Donna so great. She really wasn't romantically interested in the Doctor, she just wanted to do awesome shit and travel the universe with him. She was easily the best companion of New Who because of it, and then the show had to ruin it by making her plot important at the end. And then they gave her AMNESIAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH.

THe problem is that its fucking stupid.

You really haven't made a fair point for it other than "because I say so". Seriously, they were in cryo-stasis or whatever-the-fuck, right? This means that their city is just sleeping while they are, and when they wake up, they power everything back up. The point of special technosleep is that you can sleep for an incredibly long time and not have any adverse effects because of it. The point is that it'd just be like waking up in the morning. There's a certain thing called suspension of disbelief, and unless this show goes into great detail about how they were able to get everything ready so quickly and the explanation is really stupid, it hasn't violated it.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

This was what made Donna so great. She really wasn't romantically interested in the Doctor, she just wanted to do awesome shit and travel the universe with him. She was easily the best companion of New Who because of it, and then the show had to ruin it by making her plot important at the end. And then they gave her AMNESIAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH.

Hahaha, the best bit was when she was like "Zomg, Timelord mind!""



You really haven't made a fair point for it other than "because I say so". Seriously, they were in cryo-stasis or whatever-the-fuck, right? This means that their city is just sleeping while they are, and when they wake up, they power everything back up. The point of special technosleep is that you can sleep for an incredibly long time and not have any adverse effects because of it. The point is that it'd just be like waking up in the morning. There's a certain thing called suspension of disbelief, and unless this show goes into great detail about how they were able to get everything ready so quickly and the explanation is really stupid, it hasn't violated it.
Cause you've been asleep for 40 million years, your city ain't going to be that well preserved. The reason they are under the earth is because the earth had climate change or something and if they can't make something to mitigate that no way can they keep a gigantic underground city perfectely intact for 40 million years with no maintenance, that's so much ridiculously harder to do, it borders on the ridiculous. Especially because thier city is carved from the planet so they ahve to control the internal mechanisms of the planet to prevent erosion, sedimentation, rust, decay, random chance movements of the earth and yet they can't control some clouds. All their electrical shit is running and to keep that running over millions of years you would need absolute atomic control of the environment and yet they're in hibernation because the planet got a few degrees too hot. How can we not see the problem here?
And everything is all set up for them when they get up why do they send like 3 people to the surface? Why don't they send like a 1000. They made a mockery of the surface mission cause despite having a massive city their invasion force is 3 dudes.
You can control the planet in your sleep but you can't just make an earthquake machine to destroy all the humans.
It doesn't make sense on any level.

[Kim]

Well, the Doctor did say they could have killed the humans easily, but they were keeping them alive for some reason.

Honestly, I think you're overthinking things in an attempt to find fault with the show. The main problem with that is there are several, far more obvious bits of confusion that you seem to be wholly neglecting. You're still going after the thing that I say is covered by suspension of disbelief, and even then you have to be really digging to come up with that nitpick. There are easier complaints to be had with the episode.

Oh look, now the angels will freeze if you look like you can see them because it's scary if you have to walk between a bunch of them while blind!

To be fair, it did give a semi-decent reason for this. At least better than you lot are giving credit for. It wasn't that they couldn't move. It's that they wouldn't try, because they'd think she could see them and that they were still immobile on account of it. Millions of years worth of habit is hard to break. What it doesn't account for is them not going after her when she wasn't looking in their direction. Still a big problem, but for different reasons than you lot were giving.

[Green Spanner]

Stuff

You should write to the writers and complain.

[Steel Shadow]

This one wasn't bad. It's not going to be getting on the favorites list, but it's decent, and who knows, the 2nd part could be pretty good. I'm glad, was pretty worried for a bit there.

On this thread: Noncon's right. Never thought I would say that.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well, the Doctor did say they could have killed the humans easily, but they were keeping them alive for some reason.

Honestly, I think you're overthinking things in an attempt to find fault with the show. The main problem with that is there are several, far more obvious bits of confusion that you seem to be wholly neglecting. You're still going after the thing that I say is covered by suspension of disbelief, and even then you have to be really digging to come up with that nitpick. There are easier complaints to be had with the episode.


I'm really not nitpicking - I've had issues with other episodes but this is easily the biggest issue they've had so far- there is suspension of disbelief (which lets me forget about things like the angels) and there is just throwing an underground city at us which completely contradicts the reason for these people being underground.
It seems like I'm digging cause you guys were like "What's your reasoning? Duhhhh" so I had to spell it out in graphic detail.
I'm geniunely swore at my tv when that shit came on cause it was a bullshit retcon designed to get a cheap reaction out of the viewer.

[Kim]

Any point where a show tells me that an entire species is sleeping 21 km beneath the surface of the Earth, I've stopped caring about things like how they managed to maintain their underground city. There's a lot more suspension of disbelief involved in "entire city under the planet" than "But how did they keep it from decaying over time?" and unless the show goes into detail with any of the latter, I don't expect I'll have any problem maintaining that suspension of disbelief. If I can belief they've been in hibernation under the surface of the Earth, I can believe they have something set up so that they won't die there.

EDIT: In fact, it's pretty explicitly stated that they do have the technology to do everything you're saying. I mean, the episode starts off with them bio-programming or whatever-the-fuck the goddamn soil to eat people.

[Nique]

Welp.

This is the first time I've ever wactched Doctor Who - It's always sort of just been in my peripheral so I'm still trying to figure a lot of stuff out. Is it worth it to watch to original episodes (which, if I understand right, go all the way back to the 60s!?) or should I stick with the 2005 and onward set?

Anyway, pretty great show. I love the concept, even if the special effects are, erm, at times embarrassingly budget.

[Kim]

Eh, I'd say stick with the new show unless you can handle painfully slow pacing. I tried to watch some of the older series and goddamn it was kinda interesting but everything took forever to happen.

[Tev]

Nique, I'd stick with the 2005+ set and see how you like it. Then maybe work your way back.

[Nique]

Eh, I'd say stick with the new show unless you can handle painfully slow pacing. I tried to watch some of the older series and goddamn it was kinda interesting but everything took forever to happen.

Ha. Sounds like the 'Star Trek:TOS' I'm trying to drag myself through right now.

[Regulus Tera]

Totally unrelated NonCon, but watch Doctor Who and the Silurians. That's a fucking awesome serial, right there.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

EDIT: In fact, it's pretty explicitly stated that they do have the technology to do everything you're saying. I mean, the episode starts off with them bio-programming or whatever-the-fuck the goddamn soil to eat people.

This was m problem. They went underground because the atmosphere on the surface changed, but why couldn't they just change it back. I think it got too hot- just make some clouds. Certainly easier than making earth eat people.
And they can make it so they don't burn alive in the middle of the earth but not on the surface....
And I'm ok with a city in the earth but oddly enough but you better do something ot look after it.



Anyway, pretty great show. I love the concept, even if the special effects are, erm, at times embarrassingly budget.

If that's your view never watch the original cause they were all like tinfoil and eggbeaters. It was kind of the appeal of the old show, what crazy aliens can they make out of household objects.
Also if oyu were to watch it there are 26 seasons with a lot of ridiculousness so I'd just fin da guide somehwere of the best episodes to watch.

[Regulus Tera]

CAVES OF ANDROZANI

CAVES OF MOTHERFUCKING ANDROZANI

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Hahahahaha, that ending was just waht I wanted. I totally would have tried chucking the lizardwoman in the crack- see what happened.

[BloodyMage]

That seems a little vindictive for the doctor, at least this one. An eye for an eye is never the answer, as he said.

Totally happy with that ending too.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well, didn't see that coming. Interesting twist, though it does immediately occur to me that when the Doctor inevitably stops the TARDIS exploding, everything from this season will be undone, because the explosion that has ripped apart time and erased everything will have never happened.

Not sure how I feel about that really. Kinda makes this entire season pointless.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

That seems a little vindictive for the doctor, at least this one. An eye for an eye is never the answer, as he said.


She already dead. Most likely was goign to be eaten by the crack anyway as she wasn't that far away from it. Might as well save one if you can.

Re Tardis blowing up- can't be as simple as an explosion because I think we've seen the Master's tardis be destroyed in old series and others must have gone in similar fashion and none of them ate up time.

Edit: Also Gaiman in the paper today criticising Pratchett's claim that Doctor Who is not sci-fi. Also saying series will be fine now that RTD is gone.

[Kim]

This episode was pretty fantastic, even if the Doctor came off as really annoying at times.

[Nique]

I feel like the writers are having a difficult time with Rory and The Doctor's competition for Amy's attention... But I guess they are sort of solidifying Amy and Rory's relationship in a way they never did with Mickey and Rose.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Lateste episode- I actually quite liked. The writing was awful, the plot was all over the place, it was tackily sentimental, asked plenty of intriguing questions that it didn't even try to answer- but I liked it

[Steel Shadow]

Couldn't watch last weeks. I got about 10 mins in, had to go away for a bit, and then I couldn't bring myself to watch it again. I did watch the ending though, that was pretty good.

This weeks though, I really liked. Good dialogue, good plot. The alien was a bit silly, but they never tried any stupid "Oh, we killed it and it was blind, we are monsters!" so it wins points for that. And the damn episode made me cry (you damn well know where). All in all, good job, I hope next week's works to.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well they kind of did playthat card

[Sky Warrior Bob]

While not many (or any) of us can take advantage of this, the BBC has started to release a episodic Adventure game (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/theadventuregames). Free for UK residents. Everyone else will have to wait until July & even then it won't be free.

Check this article (http://www.adventuregamers.com/newsitem.php?id=2099) for more.

[Steel Shadow]

They let it hang in the air for a bit, but they never said "Oh, we shouldn't have done this, if only we had known." That far enough from that damn cliche for me.

Edit: Played the game. Not bad! I doubt it'd hold up to really close inspection, but I enjoyed it.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

HO. LY. SHIT!!

Now that was a damn fine twist. I did not expect this, although how it can possibly be resolved I just don't know.

[Borealis]

I called it, but... goddamn it, that was amazing. Depressing, but amazing.

[Kim]

Just started it. Why can the sonic light a torch but doesn't work on wood?

EDIT: HOLY SHIT

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Catching up on my Doctor Who:
Just watching the Lodger Returns- was nice, simple plot- not overly complicated and some people drama in the middle. Was good.
Now for the Pandorica Opens: That was...busy. But it lead in to series finale so it should be. What a lot of plotlines to close up there. Will they have balls to leave Amy dead? Maybe.

I had same thought about sonic- maybe it's lighting the air or something? Or the "sonicdoesn't work on wood" is the doctor being the doctor and just making shit up when it doesn't work.

[Kim]

Will they have balls to leave Amy dead? Maybe.

No. No, they won't. This is the guy who has before this point, so far as I can remember, not had one on-screen death, and told RTD that in the Doctor's Daughter episode she shouldn't die because there were too many deaths. Amy's not staying dead.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

What about Rory? He died on-screen didn't he? And hasn't come back yet.
Moffies didn't write that one but he is pretty much in charge of the main storyline which that was part of.

[Kim]

Yeah, but he killed Rory specifically so he could bring him back. Yeah, he brought him back as a robot, but he still brought him back.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

That totally doesn't count!

[Kim]

Just given Moffat's track record, I get the feeling that Amy will be saved by something completely fucking stupid.

[BloodyMage]

I'm just expecting Amy to stay live because we've only had one season of her, and I really don't want a new season and a new companion. I don't hate Amy, so I don't mind if she stays, but if she dies they have to bring in someone new, and I might not like them, so all in all I'd like Amy to stay for another season, and give the show some stability.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Now for predicitions over how she is going to survive:
The Amy we saw was actually a robot clone Amy made by the Daleks to trap the doctor- the real Amy would have figured out the plan and she is trapped somewhere but will break free and rescue the Doctor from the box. Then the Doctor will use the box which has time abilities (because it was made to kill a timelord properly) to stop the Tardis destruction, everyone lives.

[Kim]

Personally, I'm interested in finding out who is causing this. My bets are on it being the Master.

EDIT: This is mostly my bet because it's more likely an Old Who villain, but I'm not all that familiar with Old Who so yeah.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Amy is alive. Karen Gillan is already signed up for another season.

As for how people are saved; River uses the vortex manipulator to escape the TARDIS exploding. She returns to the Pandorica, saves The Doctor with the help of Rory, who all then somehow save Amy/the universe.

Oh and as for who's controlling the TARDIS to destroy the universe, my money's on Davros. That voice sounded suspiciously like him and the whole universe destroying/make the Doctor seem like the bad guy thing is very much like him. I can definately see him manipulating the universe to rally together to imprison the Doctor by making them think that he's responsible for destroying everything, then while he's pre-occupied, hacking the TARDIS into exploding to retroactively set him up and create the even that everyone's trying to stop.

[Kim]

I thought it sounded a tad like Davros, but my only experience with him is Genesis of the Daleks and his single appearance in New Who.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I can totally see robot rory saving everyone and it will be fucking awful.
Davros is a good guess but working with other races doesn't seem like a very Daleky plan to me- they extremely xenophobic and confident in their own abilities, including Davros.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

New Daleks, new priorities. And it wouldn't be the first time Daleks have humbled themselves, even Sec was willing to go against everything Dalek.

EDIT; And who knows, once the Pandorica was sealed it's more than likely the Daleks just turned on everyone there.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Yeah I suppose that makes sense. The Daleks have also made human robots too- as seen in the World War 2 episode.
I hope it's not them though.

Also Amy is totally a robot- that's why her life don't make sense. Totally made by the Daleks.

Edit: This is why the Doctor "accidentely" landed at the wrong times- they were the right times but Amy was not real. This is why Prisoner 0 who knew about the Pandorica hung out there. This is why she was able to emphasise with Mr Robot Bomb because she herself is a robot human! This makes super super sense.

Finale edit:
Lots of timewimeys here which makes you wonder why Doctor not do it more often. Satisifactory ending despite my hatred of Rory the Nong.

Though if I was making a prison for the Doctor I'd make it a little harder to open from the outside.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I liked it. Very different type of finale for once, with no Big Bad and leads directly into the next season with its biggest mystery left un-resolved.

Also FINALLY a plot where things get resolved with copious use of time travel. I've waited so long for the Doctor to just go "Screw this whole, "part of events" thing, I'm gona cheat my way out of this!" I put his ability to do that down to the fact the universe was collapsing and the powers that keep those things in check, like the Reapers, are probably dead.

Also, nice call back to Flesh and Stone too, setting up the final resolution for the Doctor.

[BloodyMage]

I enjoyed it.

Still wish Rory was dead though.

[Kim]

Almost done with it, but it's bugging the hell out of me that River didn't know what the crack was the first time she saw one in the season but she knew about the pandorica opening which was created because of the cracks and I'm going to lose my mind if I keep thinking about this.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Noncon; these last 2 episodes are the first time River has encountered the cracks in time. The previous version of River we've seen, both earlier this season and during the library episodes last season, were later versions of her. This is the earliest version of River the Doctor has encountered vus far, so of course she wouldn't know what's to come later on.

[Kim]

Yes, but the later version of her knew about the pandorica but didn't know about the cracks.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Who says she didn't know about the cracks? Maybe she did but just didn't tell the Doctor what she knew because, yano, spoilers.

[Kim]

She's never seemed all that worried about pretending she doesn't know stuff before.

[Carade]

Fezzes are cool.

[Steel Shadow]

Meh. That felt pretty cheap, as finales go. The opening was great, but then the credits came on and everything just got pretty dull. Time travel resolution - great. Wasn't there rules about this stuff in dr who? Maybe those only apply to the Tardis for some reason, despite that making no sense. Ah, time loops which completely rely on themselves to happen. And the sonic screwdriver can open the Pandorica. The Doctors biggest dues exSkelieton key can unlock a prison made specifically to contain him. That's not even getting into the fact that it wouldn't have happened if it hadn't happened. When you start doing that sort of thing to resolve your plot, what's the bloody point?

Amy's not *actually* dead! Despite being clearly dead. No no, she's just mostly dead, really!

Haven't mentioned it before since I haven't been posting here much, but the doc's psycic powers as the plot demands are really, really starting to annoy me. Need someone to trust you? Just bump your head on theirs. Never mind the thousands of times the Doctor's been in a position where a power like that would be really, really useful and he's not used it.

I'm ignoring River. Justified or not, she wandered off into Mary Sue territory somewhere along the line and she ain't come back. Any plot holes she creates are just her being special.

Half the plot was spent running away from a Darlek that apprently can't kill the Doctor with a direct hit. Aside from a little drama, didn't feel like it added anything to the plot, aside from "Look! A Darlek! This is definnatly Dr. Who, no mistakes there!"

There were some good things about the episode, I'm just ignoring most of them. Rory bot I liked. The characters (aside from River) were fun. The set up was great. Next episode looks interesting... Yeah, that's all I got. Gimme a bit, I'll try to think of something.

[Kim]

I think the reason it didn't kill him is that he made it to the Pandorica soon enough for it to fix him. Also, like he said in the previous episode, it's really easy to open from the outside.

[Steel Shadow]

He sure took his sweet time about getting there! Whatever happened to the 'Darleks shoot you, you die' thing? And why couldn't he just say "Hey, go distract the darlek for me!"? And wasn't the Darlek (and a mop-locked door) between where he collapsed and the Pandorica? And how does a sonic screwdriver unlock all those security measures they went on about last episode on it's own? When used by someone who doesn't have a clue what he's doing, no less... Ah, why do I care. The whole thing got stupid the instant they used a time loop to resolve an unresolvable problem.

[Kim]

He sure took his sweet time about getting there! Whatever happened to the 'Darleks shoot you, you die' thing?The Doctor has always taken longer to die than normal people, and has managed to save his own life as a result of it several times. This is nothing new.

And why couldn't he just say "Hey, go distract the darlek for me!"?I think it's part "What if the Dalek heard or Rory and Amy acted differently as a result of hearing that" and part "I said that because that's what I said."

[Steel Shadow]

The Doctor has always taken longer to die than normal people, and has managed to save his own life as a result of it several times. This is nothing new.

True, and normally I have no problem with it. This time was extreme though. Come on, they could have put *some* effort into it.

I think it's part "What if the Dalek heard or Rory and Amy acted differently as a result of hearing that" and part "I said that because that's what I said."

Darleks - experts on human reactions, they ain't. And this isn't Monkey island.

[Nique]

When you start doing that sort of thing to resolve your plot, what's the bloody point?

This is all pretty typical Doctor Who fare so far as I've seen (all of it now). Why are you surprised?

[Kim]

True, and normally I have no problem with it. This time was extreme though. Come on, they could have put *some* effort into it.

You mean like having him eat random-ass stuff in a kitchen to cure being poisoned, or putting large amounts of radiation into his shoe?

Darleks - experts on human reactions, they ain't. And this isn't Monkey island.

He took the mop with him to see Rory because he took the mop with him to see Rory. Why is saying something because he said it so far-fetched? Besides, I wouldn't even be surprised if he did it just to screw with them.

[Steel Shadow]

This is all pretty typical Doctor Who fare so far as I've seen (all of it now). Why are you surprised?

This particular bit seems to have snagged my suspension of disbelief quite badly. Maybe it's got something to do with the fact that the pandorica was supposed to be the ultimate Doctor prison created by pretty much anything he'd ever encountered. And he gets out in 5 minuets. Or maybe it's the whole "Wouldn't have happened if it hadn't happened" thing, I dislike it when people screw up time travel so completely (Yes, I'm aware we're talking about fiction here. Still bugs me!)

You mean like having him eat random-ass stuff in a kitchen to cure being poisoned

That gets a pass for being funny... Plus being in a rather lousy episode on top.

or putting large amounts of radiation into his shoe?

don't quite remember that one, though I'll grant you, sounds dumb.

He took the mop with him to see Rory because he took the mop with him to see Rory.

Technically he took the mop becuase Rory said "Oh hey, you just reminded me that you visited me with a mop!" and he figured "Oh, I do that now then." Which is reasonable (for what it is)

Why is saying something because he said it so far-fetched? Besides, I wouldn't even be surprised if he did it just to screw with them.

Best explination I've heard so far. Maybe if I add low key malice into everything the Doctor does it'll help me get trhough episodes I don't like.


Edit: Whoops, didn't see that response.

I find it especially funny that you're saying this on a forum for a comic that did that exact thing. Stable time loops aren't half as confusing as people make them out to be.

That's pretty different. I mean, one's a funny internet comic, the others a show about time travel. One of these things I expect to keep the rules of time travel at least passable.

[Kim]

That's pretty different. I mean, one's a funny internet comic, the others a show about time travel. One of these things I expect to keep the rules of time travel at least passable.

When have stable time loops ever not been passable? In a world with time travel, to prevent time paradoxes, your options are alternate timeline or anything done in "the past" has to have been something that was already going to happen. It's all rather straight-forward, and I find the fans of shows/stories/etc that use this plot device make it far more confusing than it ever actually was.

[Steel Shadow]

When have stable time loops ever not been passable? In a world with time travel, to prevent time paradoxes, your options are alternate timeline or anything done in "the past" has to have been something that was already going to happen. It's all rather straight-forward, and I find the fans of shows/stories/etc that use this plot device make it far more confusing than it ever actually was.

Oh, I have no real quarrel with the thing once it's all under way, aside from it being cheap as hell. It's how they get started that annoys me. Without the loop, the Doctor would be trapped in the pandorica forever. There's no real reason for a time loop to have started. Aside from the show not ending, I suppose.

[Kim]

A time loop doesn't start. It's a literal loop, with no definite beginning or end. Simply because you see it from a linear perspective of time does not mean that that linearity has any relevance the loop.

[Steel Shadow]

A time loop doesn't start. It's a literal loop, with no definite beginning or end. Simply because you see it from a linear perspective of time does not mean that that linearity has any relevance the loop.

There's a few ways to interpret it, I guess. I'd say you only ever see the end result of a time loop, it having gone on infinitely untill it finally settles into a perpetual set of motions which are fixed at all points. It's all monkeys and typewriters. In this case though, the only way to open the box was locked inside the box. If just that bit of the time loop had been ignored and they'd opened the box some other way... Well I'd be complaining harder about other aspects of it, I think. Not really my sort of finale. But I'd be happier about it! Probably.

It's a plain and pure Dues ex which I can't ignore. The set up episode was great becuase it really made you wonder how the hell our heroes would get out of this one. Turns out the writers were wondering the same thing, and in the end, decided they couldn't. Time loop out of nowhere!

[Kim]

Since when are time loops out of nowhere in Who? It's not the first time Moffat has used a stable time loop.

[Steel Shadow]

Not that vital to the plot though. Sure, they might kick 'em off orhelp out in a few ways, but I don't recall a major crisis being resolved soley through their use.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If you're looking for an indepth study into the mechanics of time travel in Doctor Who you are doing it wrong.
Also the universe is collapsing, time is going to go all crazy and shits so whose knows what is possible then. Eventually the universe might have eaten the pandorica letting the Doctor Free.

Edit: Actually what I was wondering was if you make universe without a Doctor originally- he never existed- why hasn't the Earth been conquered by one of the numerous aliens he saved us from.

Also reading on internet, people called out problems with the callback to the Flesh and Stone scene when it first aired as in the jacket was wrong. Good shit internet. Some thought it was continuity error, but some dudes spinning wild theories (combined with the huge emotions on Smith's face- finale type emotions and the out of place nature of the scene) thought it might be called back to. So that bit was totally planned.

[Nique]

Actually what I was wondering was if you make universe without a Doctor originally- he never existed- why hasn't the Earth been conquered by one of the numerous aliens he saved us from.

Probably something to do with time rewriting itself and the fact that the doctor WAS there becuase Amy remembered that he was (buh?). Also erasing someone from history via the cracks in the universe does not appear to erase their actions from history, e.g. Amy's parents.

See, there was an episode with Donna where all that stuff DID happen. I think the Starship Titanic actually hit Buckingham Palace even. But that occurred becuase instead of being forcibly erased from this universe's history while his actions were not (which is what just happened in the finale), this was a separate universe - a timeline wherein the doctor actually died and could not save the earth from aliens etc. Apparently, altering the timeline in certain ways does not make it an alternate universe, persay. Not like the ones separated by the void anyway.

Damn, now that I think about it, 'Who' writers seem to actually know what they're doing.

EDIT: haha. Oh man during the *brief* time when the Doctor didn't exists there must have been some MASSIVE discontinuity in the universe. Amy and Rory's visit to Venice must have been a pretty strange memory. Let alone the lives of Rose Tyler or Martha Jones.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If the univese was restored exactly as it was when it was destroyed that would include the Doctors actions up until that point really- this is assuming it restores all time at once- not restarting from scratch and replaying like a big bang.

[Fusionman]

My thoughts:

A. AWWW Rory is so sweet! Seriously though he is now in my top 5 companions.
B. Holy crap River's a Mary Sue! She made a DALEK beg for mercy! Sue much?
C. I admit without the Doctor some enemies wouldn't exist. The Daleks, Cybus Cybermen etc. The earth would still be screwed!

I do have to say this is the best finale in NuWho history.

[Nique]

I do have to say this is the best finale in NuWho history.

I'd have disagree, mostly becuase no Master.

Seriously though he is now in my top 5 companions.

Do they really consider characters like Mickey and Rory 'companions' in the same vein as Rose, Martha, Donna, etc?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I think they count anyone who has travelled in time in the TARDIS with the Doctor to be a companion, so yes, they probably do count. Though this would also mean Van Gogh is also a companion.

[Token]

Rory's totally a companion. Just because his name isn't in the opening credits...

[Flarecobra]

Now that it's nearly done....

This was the season of "WTF!?" if you ask me. But overall, I thought it was pretty good. The creaters said they wanted to end the season with a story that was "Totally bonkers."

I think they had great sucess with that.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

I was a mad-man about watching every Tenant-Doctor episode the night it aired, and yet I still haven't seen past the second-half of this new doctor's first episode (well, aside from the Van Gogh episode, but my parent's begged me). Friggin youtube combo-ed with my lack of a television has really screwed me. I'm kinda hoping it could get put up on the BBC site or hulu or something... it keeps sounding interesting enough to drag me in!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You do realise that all episodes are on the bbc website right?

[Malek]

Not anymore, They took them all off about 2 weeks ago.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rs69w
I canstill watch them. Maybe it your computator.

[Malek]

When I click play, it tells me the episode is no longer availiable, or for the earlier ones it only shows short clips from the episodes.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm getting that too now. When I checked before I had the beast below fully loaded which was only one I checked.. odd.