Bleach is back, THANK GOD!!!

[Kyanbu The Legend]

So the anime is now back into main plot. And it seems they may be fast forwarding the plot a bit.


Captain Awesome kill Hailbel's Franchions fusion dance technique and all 3 of them was fucking awesome in motion. And it looks like the second half of the Ichigo vs Ulqiurra will be shown as a movie/OVA while the first half will be shown in the anime.

[Aerozord]

then the manga had better be ending soon because so far I doubt you could squeeze out any more then about 10 canon episodes, and thats if you stretch out the fights

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Sadly there's about 2 arcs left.

[Bells]

Ooh they have a good 200 episodes ahead... and we have at least a good 20 episodes of nothing but kickass fighting coming up now

[Sithdarth]

It was a recap not a fast forward. It's been so damn long they wanted to make sure everyone remember were they left off. Also I so totally called it was going to take this damn long to get back to the main story.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

It was a recap not a fast forward. It's been so damn long they wanted to make sure everyone remember were they left off. Also I so totally called it was going to take this damn long to get back to the main story.

Ah okay that explains it.

[Ecks]

Gah, I'm so furious. I can't even get back into subs. I'm so addicted to the manga... that, and due to the convenience of staying up all night every Saturday, the ViZ dub is getting interesting (I think we're going to see the first episodes of season 8 show up on [as] soon) again. Granted, season 8 was filler... but the fights were pretty cool, anyway.

[01d55]

So which episode exactly did we get not-filler again?

[Kim]

267, I think. A friend just made me watch 268 with him, and I kept remembering all the dumbness that would be upcoming and laughing my ass off. The Dumbest Thing Ever is actually a lot sooner than I was thinking.

[Osterbaum]

Episode 266 was where the story continued now.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

To those who watch the dub. Adult Swim and Viz might lose the rights to Bleach do to an licenses renewal issue. From what I've gathered on AS's forum. AS asked for more the usual this time around when they and Viz (the ones who dub bleach) went to renew the licenses. What it was I don't really know but it might have been a plan to skip the Zanpaktou arc and or dub the remaining movies. Or wanting to licenses more eps then usual this time around.

Currently they restarted Bleach over from episode 1. And are airing 4 episodes every Saturday till everything settles down.

[Lithp]

The Zanpakuto Unknown Tales Arc may have officially caused Bleach to surpass Naruto in ridiculous filler nonsense.

However, I've heard that the Arc is quite good. I won't know for a while, as I kind of want to get to the point. The dub's tendency to start the entire series over all the freakin' time for no apparent reason is the main cause of this.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

The Zanpakuto Unknown Tales Arc may have officially caused Bleach to surpass Naruto in ridiculous filler nonsense.

However, I've heard that the Arc is quite good. I won't know for a while, as I kind of want to get to the point. The dub's tendency to start the entire series over all the freakin' time for no apparent reason is the main cause of this.

Sadly this problem has happened almost every time they and Viz go to renew the licenses.

[Lithp]

That's why I went, "screw it" & started watching subbed episodes online. Because, honestly, I hate watching subbed anime. But if it gets me to Ulquiorra vs. Ichigo faster, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make!

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Which should start in the next episode or two from the looks of it.

[Lithp]

On a vaguely related note, does anyone else find Gin's Bankai kind of...superfluous? I mean, what are you going to do with a sword that's 13km long, anyway?

[Amake]

Pierce the Heavens?

Now, I haven't been following the plot, but I'd be impressed if it just up and ended while the franchiese was still bringing in money. Wasn't the manga author all "I don't know where I'm going to take the story so I'm just making up more characters to make things happen" in interviews, years ago?

[Kim]

On a vaguely related note, does anyone else find Gin's Bankai kind of...superfluous? I mean, what are you going to do with a sword that's 13km long, anyway?

Not that it affects me, but you might want to wrap that in spoilers, since this is a thread for the anime, and that's pretty new in the manga.

[Aerozord]

Pierce the Heavens?

Now, I haven't been following the plot, but I'd be impressed if it just up and ended while the franchiese was still bringing in money. Wasn't the manga author all "I don't know where I'm going to take the story so I'm just making up more characters to make things happen" in interviews, years ago?

what he actually said is he writes up a bunch of characters when he hits writers block. Still I bet they will do what they did with DBZ and force him to continue after the series has concluded

[Arcanum]

Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure Bleach is the new DBZ now because I just watched the new episodes (post filler arc) and there's been about 50% talking, 20% random pointless fighting (Renji and Chad fighting the minions... seriously, why am I being shown this?!) and 30% actual fighting that interests me, and this is being generous with my percentages. I mean, if Bleach hasn't become the new DBZ already, this seals the deal.

[Kim]

Naw, Bleach isn't DBZ. Bleach's cast is far more attractive.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure Bleach is the new DBZ now because I just watched the new episodes (post filler arc) and there's been about 50% talking, 20% random pointless fighting (Renji and Chad fighting the minions... seriously, why am I being shown this?!) and 30% actual fighting that interests me, and this is being generous with my percentages. I mean, if Bleach hasn't become the new DBZ already, this seals the deal.

No, it still has a ways to go.

see in till the plot reaches a new level of stupid, and Tite gets forced to make more Bleach after the series ends. It's not the new DBZ.

[synkr0nized]

Just because an animu is about fighting and has gone on for a while doesn't make it DBZ.



I mean, where's Cell taking over all of the television broadcasts?
Then Ichigo and Renji can learn a new level of bankai that will fuse them into Renchigo so that they can fight the magical wizard of the arrancar and his constructs.

[01d55]

I mean, where's Cell taking over all of the television broadcasts?
Then Ichigo and Renji can learn a new level of bankai that will fuse them into Renchigo so that they can fight the magical wizard of the arrancar and his constructs.

For me, the point at which a show becomes DBZ is the point at which all superpowers blur together into a pack of different colored Ki blasts differentiated purely by a vague "size" that is never really defined and shifts from moment to moment in ways governed by a single rule: only Son Goku Protagonist Guy is gonna save the day and anyone else who takes on the latest BIGGEST THREAT EVAR is just kidding themselves. Also: Holy crap, that giant dust cloud was concealing the fact that the guy who just got hit by a giant Ki blast is totally fine!

The spoiler in the next paragraph is for recent manga and won't show up in tv for a while, but it's relevent to my point: I liked how Ichigo vs. Byakuya was clearly not about whether or not Rukia was gonna get saved because of Ichigo's awesome WILLpower - that was more to do with Mafia Mom being hypercompetent and catching Aizen being evil. It was about how Ichigo saw this guy working his ass off to see his adopted sister executed and was willing to risk his life to find out what the hell was wrong with that douche and then to say "Dude, what the hell is wrong with you?" through violence. He pretty much comes out and tells Gin that's why he fights basically everyone he actually has a big fight with.

[Amake]

Bleach, Naruto and One Piece were all marketed initially as the successors of DBZ. They were designed, as a-list mangas are, specifically to emulate it. It's no secret or anything, the authors have each talked about it in interviews, praising the inspiration DBZ has given them. Although the serieses have managed to achieve a great deal of individuality within that narrow scope, I don't see any point trying to deny any of their origins.

[Aerozord]

Even if you hate DBZ you have to acknowledge it for bringing shonen genre to its current high point and basically bringing anime to the US. Alot of the cliche's in DBZ are cliche' because DBZ did it. Not saying it was the first but its never about being first to do something, its about being the first to make it popular.

Plus alot of the hate I dont get. What, you want the main character to be useless in the climax? He's the protagonist, the character the story follows, the guy that by definition is meant to face the big bad at the end. Heck the whole reason we know the series isn't over is because no one but Ichigo can deliver the final blow. Not doing so would invalidate his entire progression as a fighter if in the end he can do little beyond stand back and let someone else finish Aizen.

[01d55]

Plus alot of the hate I dont get. What, you want the main character to be useless in the climax? He's the protagonist, the character the story follows, the guy that by definition is meant to face the big bad at the end. Heck the whole reason we know the series isn't over is because no one but Ichigo can deliver the final blow. Not doing so would invalidate his entire progression as a fighter if in the end he can do little beyond stand back and let someone else finish Aizen.

The problem is that everyone assumes that the protagonist's story and the story of the ENTIRE GODDAMN WORLD are necessarily identical. They aren't!

Shonen anime has a terrible habit of forcing these things together even if it's really stupid, which it usually is. It's OK to limit the scope of the protagonist's life and not make it determinative of the Fate Of Humanity. You don't even have to bring up that subject! Yet everyone does anyway. Busou Renkin is a particularly egregious offender but at least they had enough mercy to wrap things up and end quickly once things got to that point.

The Soul Society arc got this perfect. The story of upheaval in Soul Society and the story of Ichigo's quest to save Rukia were connected but distinct. The former was resolved by Unohana's message and the reckoning at the hill, the latter by Ichigo and Byakuya's duel and Byakuya's confession to Rukia.

For a while it looked like th Hueco Mundo arc was going to go the same way, but it seems the general pattern of the HM arc is "Like the SS arc but shittier" and so Ichigo is getting pulled out of his plot so that the world's plot can be wrapped around him and his arbitrary specialness.

[Yumil]

Even if you hate DBZ you have to acknowledge it for bringing shonen genre to its current high point and basically bringing anime to the US. Alot of the cliche's in DBZ are cliche' because DBZ did it. Not saying it was the first but its never about being first to do something, its about being the first to make it popular.

Plus alot of the hate I dont get. What, you want the main character to be useless in the climax? He's the protagonist, the character the story follows, the guy that by definition is meant to face the big bad at the end. Heck the whole reason we know the series isn't over is because no one but Ichigo can deliver the final blow. Not doing so would invalidate his entire progression as a fighter if in the end he can do little beyond stand back and let someone else finish Aizen.

Considering that the end of DBZ was originally going to be the Cell arc, there's a lot to be said due to this. Toriyama wanted to end with Goku passing on the torch to his son, so that his son could continue what Goku started as a child in Dragonball. Hell, the whole story up to this point had a huge focus on Gohan, with Goku doing his fatherly duty. He then grooms Gohan to take over during the Cell saga and bam Gohan wins.

Problem is, the fans hated this. They've always had Goku. They always rooted for him. For him to be usurped as their hero was blasphemy. The fans revolted and Toriyama continued with Buu>.<

[Lithp]

Not that it affects me, but you might want to wrap that in spoilers, since this is a thread for the anime, and that's pretty new in the manga.

Sorry. Topics like this in most other areas usually function under the assumption, "If you didn't want to find a spoiler you wouldn't be reading it," so old habits die hard. I'll try to remember this better.

I got surprisingly little comments on that. Oh well. As I see it, there are a few prime differences between DBZ & Bleach:

1. Plot. DBZ basically worked like this: Bad guy. Lots of fighting. Transformation. Goku goes SS. Bad guy dies. New bad guy. It was the same formula over & over again. To put it more nicely, it was episodic. Bleach actually has a defined main antagonist.

2. Originality. Beam of light fired from the hand(s). Which DBZ attack am I describing? If you guessed, "Virtually all of them," you're correct. I think I don't need to explain how Bleach handles this differently.

3. Swords aren't useless, at least not until someone releases (dirty) them.

4. It's not a Who Has the Biggest Hair Contest. Bleach is all about who's the best dressed.

5. I contend that it has good explanations for its bullshit. The characters can survive being hit through buildings? No shit, they're either already dead or they've been converted into soul form somehow. They can fly? Actually, they just focus spirit energy at their feet to walk on air a la water in Naruto.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

The problem is that everyone assumes that the protagonist's story and the story of the ENTIRE GODDAMN WORLD are necessarily identical. They aren't!

Shonen anime has a terrible habit of forcing these things together even if it's really stupid, which it usually is. It's OK to limit the scope of the protagonist's life and not make it determinative of the Fate Of Humanity. You don't even have to bring up that subject! Yet everyone does anyway. Busou Renkin is a particularly egregious offender but at least they had enough mercy to wrap things up and end quickly once things got to that point.

The Soul Society arc got this perfect. The story of upheaval in Soul Society and the story of Ichigo's quest to save Rukia were connected but distinct. The former was resolved by Unohana's message and the reckoning at the hill, the latter by Ichigo and Byakuya's duel and Byakuya's confession to Rukia.

For a while it looked like th Hueco Mundo arc was going to go the same way, but it seems the general pattern of the HM arc is "Like the SS arc but shittier" and so Ichigo is getting pulled out of his plot so that the world's plot can be wrapped around him and his arbitrary specialness.

Well it's not always forced but I do agree on them being different.

Remember that Shonen anime is aimed at little boys who generally only care about action. It's VERY rare for a shonen to not do this and remain shonen. As it won't do well with that general audience. The problem isn't that Bleach merged the world plot with Ichigo's (which really ended after SS. HM starts the world's plot.). The problem is people tend to forget that they are watching a kids show which isn't obligated to be all that deep. And is very likely to involve both world plot and the hero's.

To expect that from bleach is to expect to win the lottery on the first try.

[Aerozord]

watching the first few episodes I realized something. Part of the problem is that one of the things great about Bleach was learning about the setting. Like learning what hollows really are, about the quincies, the heirarchy of soul society, their various unique technologies, ect. There just isn't really anything left. Only stuff not known is stuff intentionally kept hidden like the king stuff. I think thats why it doesn't seem to live up to what we experience early on

[Specterbane]

4. It's not a Who Has the Biggest Hair Contest. Bleach is all about who's the best dressed.

Bleach IS about who's the best dressed. This parallels so well that when ever anyone releases their power they get a fucking costume change anymore.

But I'd actually argue that Ichigo isn't Goku since Goku is the guy sho gets beat-the-fuck-up but is still the only one to actually be able to pull out the win. Even with Vegeta on earth he was the only one who could actually form the Spirit bomb to actually start the crushing of Vegeta.

Where I'm going to pull the difference is that while Ichigo did get beat-the-fuck-up against Byakuya, after the fight while Ichigo was pretty much whipped Byakuya could still do shit to stop Aizen, but he stopped against Ichigo because Ichigo beat his philosophy.

To me, one of the interesting difference about Bleach to DBZ is that while Goku was a BLUNT object. Ichigo has a brain and a constant struggle with a darker self that only wants to fight based on instinct with the as the hollow.

[01d55]

Well it's not always forced but I do agree on them being different.

Remember that Shonen anime is aimed at little boys who generally only care about action. It's VERY rare for a shonen to not do this and remain shonen.
Sounds like a good reason for Bleach to be the Kenpachi show guest starring some other jerks.

The percieved necessity of a character like Ichigo is totally mythical. I'd explain why but Yahtzee did it for me (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/7417-Extra-Punctuation-Kratos) and he's Internet Famous too.

I concede that such a thing may be necessary in your fish-out-of-water drama or your sci-fi/fantasy epic where the story is more about the world than the characters and the audience needs someone to experience it with.

Back in the SS arc Ichigo was fulfilling this role and did it well. Once that was over there was no longer a compelling reason to keep him in the spotlight or even to maintain the notion of a main character at all! It's not like there isn't a whole lot of other characters in Bleach who can provide entertaining action through fighting.

[Aerozord]

Ichigo served another purpose, he was a framing device, because, like the audience, he knew nothing things could be explained to him and thus inform the audience. But as I said earlier thats no longer needed as both Ichigo and the audience are about as informed as anyone else in the setting

[Ecks]

Judging by some of the later manga chapters (read: the Deicide chapters), it seems as though the Big Bad had intended Ichigo to be part of the World's Plot right from the get-go. Also, not knowing Isshin's backstory and his relationship to Aizen, who's to say Ichigo DOESN'T have a part to play in the world's plot? The shinigami effectively said, look, you're the guy with the most spirit energy who HASN'T seen Captain Broken's release yet. Help us, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope!


http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/eckscizor/Random/KuboAintGottaExplainShit.jpg

[Lithp]

Specter: Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I finally realized why I like Ichigo so much when he seems to be like so many other Shonen characters: He's a subversion. Everything he does is similar to a typical Shonen protagonist, but different. Or, to put it in a less technical way:

Inuyasha is informed that he's probably headed into a trap. He charges right in because "Naraku's there." There is no reason he can't wait Naraku out.

Ichigo is informed that he's probably headed into a trap. He keeps going, rationalizing that the quickest way to find Orihime is probably to draw out someone who knows where she is.

[Sithdarth]

So awesome episode. The fight everyone was waiting for finally occurs. They surprisingly didn't stretch it out very much. I was totally disappointed by how the handled the whole Uryu's arm troubles but otherwise it was a nice visual romp. Too bad we'll probably be headed back to filler in relatively short order. I give it a few months max.

[Bells]

So awesome episode. The fight everyone was waiting for finally occurs. They surprisingly didn't stretch it out very much. I was totally disappointed by how the handled the whole Uryu's arm troubles but otherwise it was a nice visual romp. Too bad we'll probably be headed back to filler in relatively short order. I give it a few months max.

Yeah, now we know. It's ok to Show a "Monster's" severed arm, but not that of a Human.

Although, for some reason, it's Ok to show a human with a Watermelon sized hole in his chest.... maybe it's because he becomes a monster right after the fact.

Also, by the time the anime catches up with the manga, they should've ended this arc. So there will probably be another Filler Arc after that. At least they won't give us those awful Mid-section Fillers.

[Lithp]

Dude, I wouldn't try attaching logic to Bleach's censorship. It doesn't work under the principle of What Measure Is A Nonhuman. It doesn't even seem to work on consistent standards at all.

With all of the blood we've seen in this series, why is it sometimes water for no apparent reason? If it's okay to show someone with a massive hole in their chest when it's important to the story, why can't they show serious injuries more often? The whole bloody thing makes no damn sense.