A man can hope

[Raynauld]

I hope the whole 8 bit theater will come out in one big book format.

I would so buy the shit out of a thing like that.

I mean, I know its for free over here, but still...

A man can hope.

(Ever since the Dark Knight I also try desperitly to put the name of my posts into the post itself.)

[meo]

Square-Enix's lawyers would absolutely love it.

[Ecks]

Yeah. Brian'd have to go through them, and they'd get to take almost all the profit and the credit.

Or we could wait ninety years or so for all the sprites to become public domain.

[Donomni]

Pfft, mankind would have to fall to extinction before SE let any intellectual property become public domain, and even then, the paperwork would still cover the next 500 years afterward.

[Loyal]

And that's assuming Disney ever stops pushing to extend the "x years after creator death" thing.

[Meister]

The sprites aren't the only problem. Having a 1200+ pages comic printed is likely an enormous investment, even if you disregard the risk that your operation could be shut down at any time for completely expectable legal reasons, and the end result would be expensive enough that you'd think twice about buying it when it's on the web for free.

Also the episodes as they are now aren't fit for printing anyway. They're all optimized for web display, the resolution is too low, and many of them have visible compression artifacts and colour differences. Really, the entire thing would have to be redone from scratch, and that would be an even larger investment with a not necessarily guaranteed return.

[Geminex]

An 8-bit theatre movie, on the other hand...

What? There's already a perfectly good plot! See? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/05/19/vacation-04-4-in-a-world/)

[Kurosen]

The sprites aren't the only problem. Having a 1200+ pages comic printed is likely an enormous investment, even if you disregard the risk that your operation could be shut down at any time for completely expectable legal reasons, and the end result would be expensive enough that you'd think twice about buying it when it's on the web for free.

Also the episodes as they are now aren't fit for printing anyway. They're all optimized for web display, the resolution is too low, and many of them have visible compression artifacts and colour differences. Really, the entire thing would have to be redone from scratch, and that would be an even larger investment with a not necessarily guaranteed return.
This is what I mean when I say 8BT is a dead end for me as a creator. There's no future in it. While other webcomic artists invest years to build and develop their properties into something they can make a part of their on-going careers, I gave you guys nine years of my life to complete a project I knew couldn't go anywhere.

It's also why I get a little annoyed when people accuse me of being selfish or trying to screw the fans or whatever inane things immature children say when they don't get their way.

[rpgdemon]

It'd be cool to see the entirety of 8-bit theatre redone, by being drawn, but that'd be a ridiculous amount of work, for a printed book which probably wouldn't make up the initial costs.

[HisshouBuraiken]

This is what I mean when I say 8BT is a dead end for me as a creator. There's no future in it. While other webcomic artists invest years to build and develop their properties into something they can make a part of their on-going careers, I gave you guys nine years of my life to complete a project I knew couldn't go anywhere.


Well everyone KNOWS that, but it's not as if you didn't get anything out of the deal. 8BT earned you legions of fans, an outlet to plug your other projects and eventually led to some really awesome creative opportunities for you. Plus any comics created in college don't count anyways ;P

Frankly, I'm just eagerly awaiting the epilogue, I have no complaints.

Hell, I didn't even know I was being fucked with as a reader until I started browsing these damnable forums. I just thought the Light Warriors were perennially doomed to failure.

[MSperoni]

It'd be cool to see the entirety of 8-bit theatre redone, by being drawn, but that'd be a ridiculous amount of work, for a printed book which probably wouldn't make up the initial costs.

Only an idiot would attempt to draw pages of 8-bit Theater.

[Ryanderman]

Only an idiot would attempt to draw pages of 8-bit Theater.

Something about this statement intrigues me.

[rpgdemon]

Only an idiot would attempt to draw pages of 8-bit Theater.

Translation: "I attempted to draw pages of 8-bit Theater."

Didn't work out? :P

[Seil]

This is what I mean when I say 8BT is a dead end for me as a creator. There's no future in it. While other webcomic artists invest years to build and develop their properties into something they can make a part of their on-going careers, I gave you guys nine years of my life to complete a project I knew couldn't go anywhere.

Way to be totally selfish, Mr. Clevinger!

Also, quick question here; is 8-Bit merchandise going to continue after the comic officially ends? Like when the epilogue goes up? Or will you scrap it and concentrate on your other projects?

[Kurosen]

Well everyone KNOWS that, but it's not as if you didn't get anything out of the deal. 8BT earned you legions of fans, an outlet to plug your other projects and eventually led to some really awesome creative opportunities for you.
Yes and no. It gave me an audience likely to be receptive to my other work, but I still have to start from scratch with them because there's no more 8BT. It's a huge risk and the best case scenario still has me losing at least half 8BT's readership.

I suppose to make the point more clear: while Gabe and Tycho recently started branching out with other comic side projects, you'll note they aren't going to stop doing Penny Arcade.

Plus any comics created in college don't count anyways ;P
That would be the first fifty pages. :P

Also, quick question here; is 8-Bit merchandise going to continue after the comic officially ends? Like when the epilogue goes up? Or will you scrap it and concentrate on your other projects?
8BT archives will stay online, so will the merch. If there's any plans to stop stocking the items, I'll make a news post about it ASAP.

[Donomni]

It'd be cool to see the entirety of 8-bit theatre redone, by being drawn, but that'd be a ridiculous amount of work, for a printed book which probably wouldn't make up the initial costs.

Or a comic series.

Brian, if you manage to totally weasel your way into a respectable position(PFFFFFT) with Marvel, you should look into this.

If they try and force your hand, just say you'll have Wolverine on every cover. That seems to work a lot.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Or a comic series.

Brian, if you manage to totally weasel your way into a respectable position(PFFFFFT) with Marvel, you should look into this.

If they try and force your hand, just say you'll have Wolverine on every cover. That seems to work a lot.

I just had this dark thought of Marvel heroes as the Light Warriors.

[Hanuman]

big book format
Cheapest estimate: $120

Is that viable?

[shiney]

Cheapest suggests such terrible quality that it may not even be worthwhile...kind of need a basis in reality of what product you're gonna get for $120.

Plus the whole needs to be 100% redone bit.

[Kurosen]

Also, the number of people who "would totally buy an 8-bit Theater book" is much, much larger than the number of people who would throw down $100+ for one.

[rpgdemon]

Also, the number of people who "would totally buy an 8-bit Theater book" is much, much larger than the number of people who would throw down $100+ for one.

Way to be totally selfish, Mr. Clevinger

A REAL artist would starve, go to jail, and not make money off his work! Dude. You should totally take out a loan, go into debt printing the books, and get arrested for it, because that's what a not-sellout would do. DUH.

[Seil]

Or pay vast sums of monies to qualified pilots to smoke trail the comics in the sky on a daily basis.

Or, y'know, mebbe talk to a Square representative or something, y'know, work something out.

But the pilot sky-comic thing would be totally rad, though. Just sayin'.

[Wampiro]

Brian... do you keep higher resolution versions of the 8-bit strips?

Just talking... I was thinking about make my own volumes of 8-bit theatre (not for sale, just for me). 100 pages every book... not sure how many could cost todo 1 book every time in a proffesional printing, or if i could do it with special paper in my printer :/

Binding is cheap...

Well, there will be problems:
- Printing Price
- Resolution
- Strip?s Format: I?m not sure if they are "A4"... and there are lots of strips that are larger (or short).

Need to search some info...

[Kurosen]

Or, y'know, mebbe talk to a Square representative or something, y'know, work something out.
Everyone suggests that. The short version of my answer is that I'm more likely to discover unicorns cause hurricanes.

[Hanuman]

Cheapest suggests such terrible quality that it may not even be worthwhile...kind of need a basis in reality of what product you're gonna get for $120.

Plus the whole needs to be 100% redone bit.

Well, if you did it in black and white on stock paper with low res ink on softcover and print 2 strips a page front and back you could get away with $50-$60. Of course that would be only just legible and would be larger and heavier than grey's anatomy. This is all assuming Brian would do all this nonprofit and get commercial bulk sale price, and I see no reason for him to do that.

The $120 option would be about 5lbs in semi-gloss mag print hardcover.

[Seil]

Everyone suggests that. The short version of my answer is that I'm more likely to discover unicorns cause hurricanes.

You never know. They might be.

[Donomni]

Maybe, but Square Enix still wouldn't go through with it, likely.

The fact is, at least from my experience in the FFXI community, they are more or less impossible to work with, and if you do, very little will actually get done.

Even if they did try and work with Brian, they'd first force him to translate the whole thing into Japanese, sell the books to Japan first for a few years, then release a shitty version elsewhere for $500 a book.

It'd be a fucking nightmare and they probably would look confused(Or laugh and/or smack him) if Brian was expecting to get paid for it.

SE can make some good stuff, but only if they both own it entirely, without question, and actually feel like it.

[meo]

Square-Enix are filthy whores. Their lawyers drink in the blood of anyone who infringe on their copyright. Even perfectly innocent romhacks (Crimson Echoes) are shut down 1-2 weeks before their release after a several year development.

The fact that they haven't attacked 8-Bit Theater in all the years it's ran despite using FF1 graphics is a testament to the fact that someone in SE loves the comic, I guess.

[Nuklear Waste]

Brian "works" for Marvel. Kinda. Marvel is owned by Disney. Disney and Square-Enix publish Kingdom Hearts, or something like that. ∴ Square-Enix...works for Brian.

I don't know.

[HisshouBuraiken]

Everyone suggests that. The short version of my answer is that I'm more likely to discover unicorns cause hurricanes.

Well we already found out boobies cause earthquakes.

Anyways yes, an 8BT book is dumb. It would cost less total money if everyone who would ACTUALLY purchase such a book took a usb drive with all the comics to staples and had them printed out, then taken to a book-binder and had them leatherbound.

Which would be pretty rad, especially if the cover said "the illustrated guide to scatological tricks."

[MSperoni]

Could always make an "8-bit Theater: *Lame Subtitle*" new improved story, drop the blatant FF references, make it drawn, black and white (cheaper printing, right?).. etc..

Y'know, something manga-y only less (or more) stupid.

[tacticslion]

Could always make a new comic with the same title just to fool everyone into buying it so you could laugh at them as you rolled in your filthy lucre, you selfish pig!

Hey! That's exactly what he shouldn't do! Votes for Brian!

Really, it's just way too much work for him and it's utterly viable that Square might still be able to claim copyright infringement and take everything away from him. After all 8-Bit is only marginally made of sprites not owned by Square, and if he bothered to create a world, or even use the same "setting" but ignored FF plot, there are only so many fantasy towns named "Melmond" or "Corneria" with characters similar to Square's own creations. Of course he could alter it so that it wasn't recognizable, and use completely different characters... but then it wouldn't be 8-bit theatre. As much as I hate to say it, it really is a dead end for him, creatively. One could, in theory, create such a thing, but I just can't see all the work needed actually paying off in the end, and it still might have legal troubles.

[stabbity death]

I'd totally throw down a hundred and twenty bucks for an 8bit Theater book.

All things considered, that actually seems like a very fair deal, and I've definitely spent more on less in my day.

[MSperoni]

Hey! Words!

Well, you sure showed ME..I bet Brian actually considered what I typed there for a second as a viable option! Hopefully he's not dumb enough to take what I typed seriously.. But if he was/is, you've saved him from making a huge mistake.

Maybe he'll email you a trophy or a cookie or something.

ED: As a side-note, most of the work would be on the person who drew it, writers don't do crap but sit around in a drunken stupor laughing at people who buy their stuff, plot how to sell out and mash the keys on their keyboard (sometimes with their faces). Artists are even dumber for working for them. And as I've said, only an idiot would attempt to draw pages of 8-bit Theater. An idiot... or a madman...or a nerd... or Dr. Quincy M.E tag-teamed with Dr. Lucien Sanchez.

[Melfice]

ED: As a side-note, most of the work would be on the person who drew it, writers don't do crap but sit around in a drunken stupor laughing at people who buy their stuff, plot how to sell out and mash the keys on their keyboard (sometimes with their faces). Artists are even dumber for working for them. And as I've said, only an idiot would attempt to draw pages of 8-bit Theater. An idiot... or a madman...or a nerd... or Dr. Quincy M.E tag-teamed with Dr. Lucien Sanchez.

So, really, what you're saying is "I'm a masochist."?

[MSperoni]

I dunno, are you a masochist?

[HisshouBuraiken]

I'd totally throw down a hundred and twenty bucks for an 8bit Theater book.

All things considered, that actually seems like a very fair deal, and I've definitely spent more on less in my day.

Like I said, download the full archive and head on over to Staples.

[Seil]

Like I said, download the full archive and head on over to Staples.

You'd need those long sheets of paper - stuffing an entire comic on a single page would make it unreadable and kinda ugly.

You'd halfta download the entire archives, split each comic in half, run over to staples, get a crap-load if paper and printer cartridges, a three ring binder and a hole-punch.

[Meister]

"Ahh, what a nice quiet evening, think I'm just gonna spend it in my favourite armchair with my gigantic heavy ring binder."

[MSperoni]

It could have grips fastened to it and double as weights for exercise equipment. The tagline could be like "Let 8-bit PUMP YOU UP...with LAUGHTER.."

[Seil]

Meister, I'm totally imagining something like this, (http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u59/Poetisch/307-ParisIrelandLondon-2000-06-16.jpg) only with a pipe and a monocle.

"Welcome to this segment of Masterpiece Theater, where we open this nondescript black binder to gush at the artistry of 8-Bit sprite webco... Oh bugger all, some of the pages are loose!

[rpgdemon]

Okay, so here's how the book can happen:

Fighters Journal. The entirety of 8-bit, in Fighter's Journal.

[Neni]

Okay, so here's how the book can happen:

Fighters Journal. The entirety of 8-bit, in Fighter's Journal.

This would probably look something like this:

"Dear Journal.
Today, I found a shiny stones. It was a rather pretty stone. Though, not as pretty as my swords. I ought to get some more swords sometime.

Oh, also, White Mage saved the world."


...What I am meaning to say is, that Fighter misses the point everywhere, so that book would miss it too. The point, I mean.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

In a good way, though. I can't imagine not liking it.

[rpgdemon]

This would probably look something like this:

"Dear Journal.
Today, I found a shiny stones. It was a rather pretty stone. Though, not as pretty as my swords. I ought to get some more swords sometime.

Oh, also, White Mage saved the world."


...What I am meaning to say is, that Fighter misses the point everywhere, so that book would miss it too. The point, I mean.

And the problem is where exactly?


ALTERNATE ROUTE FOR THIS POST:


This would probably look something like this:

"Dear Journal.
Today, I found a shiny stones. It was a rather pretty stone. Though, not as pretty as my swords. I ought to get some more swords sometime.

Oh, also, White Mage saved the world."


...What I am meaning to say is, that I miss the point everywhere, so I'd miss that book too. The point, I mean.

Fixed it.

[Neni]

ALTERNATE ROUTE FOR THIS POST:




Excuse me for prefering Brian's Black Mage jokes to his Fighter Jokes. It's just that a Cloudcuckoolander being stupid with nothing else inbetween gets old after a dozen pages or so.

...Although, I do have to admitt that I really tend to miss the point when people are talking to me... -.-; There's no way denying this fact. Might have something to do with the fact that my head is consistently floating in the Manga-Videogame-Literature-dimension.

[synkr0nized]

Excuse me for prefering Brian's Black Mage jokes to his Fighter Jokes. It's just that a Cloudcuckoolander being stupid with nothing else inbetween gets old after a dozen pages or so.

wait wait

So Black Mage doing the same schtick over hundreds of pages is fresh and new, but Fighter doing his is old and stale?

[shiney]

I always felt that BM appealed more to the immature side of the readers, personally, because his humor is largely slapstick and/or RAH RAH EVIL EVIL whereas the other characters had a little bit more nuanced or subtle humor oftentimes. Perhaps this is where the disconnect happens.

[stabbity death]

If it were done in a journal-style, I'd like to see entries written from multiple character viewpoints.

[Hanuman]

How about another silly suggestion?
A real life play, done in Lexx style.

[Ecks]

Wait wait wait wait. Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Guys.

Guys, this is the best- GUYS!

This is the best idea ever.

What if- guys pay attention- what if...

Guys, what if we made 8-bit Flash movies?

[Tev]

Wasn't that done already? I thought we weren't encouraging that kind of behavior anymore....

[Edogaa]

HURRAH MY PASSWORD WORKS! :3 (took a couple weeks to figure out his password since he couldn't find the password reset)

Anyways

What the guy above tev said was obviously a joke. :| I mean come on, how can you take something worded like that seriously? :o

If he was, well okay then :P

[Meister]

In all seriousness even if you made the best flash movie you could make, with good voice acting and good timing and all, it'd still be extremely boring to watch because unless you went to truly monstrous efforts it'd be largely static pictures of 8-bit sprites in various settings while someone read out the dialogue.

[neofrodo]

I liked the old flash movies on newgrounds. :)

Kinda sad that they were discontinued....but eh. Must have been too much work. >_<

[Neni]

wait wait

So Black Mage doing the same schtick over hundreds of pages is fresh and new, but Fighter doing his is old and stale?

I said with nothing inbetween.


By the way, I liked the Flash Series a lot as well. It made the oldest comics that much better... But I doubt they'd work for the newer strips. They are to different from the first few.

[Meister]

Eh, the Flash movies have... issues.

Issues like inconsistent sound quality, which I guess you can overlook considering everyone probably had different recording equipment, but also sound effects and silly accents in place of actual voice acting, and pretty dubious voice acting where there were no sound effects and silly accents. And timing, and using the comic straight up as a script, and so on.

[Kalbelgarion]

Could always make an "8-bit Theater: *Lame Subtitle*" new improved story, drop the blatant FF references, make it drawn, black and white (cheaper printing, right?).. etc..

Y'know, something manga-y only less (or more) stupid.


Ooo! And set it in China! With Kung-Fu! And lots of flashbacks and flashbacks within flashbacks!

[Rejected Again]

Ooo! And set it in China! With Kung-Fu! And lots of flashbacks and flashbacks within flashbacks!

Wait a bloody second.....That seems familiar. Meh, probably nothing.

Also as for an 8bit book, $120 each may be on the expensive side...Lemme do some math. I work at a printing company so I am a credible source.

$75 for a cheap ass, low quality phone book yellow pages style crock-o-crap.

For a higher quality book done on something in the likes of a children's book. Your looking at more along the lines of $175 to $250 depending on if you want high quality paper, full coverage on ink, heat set to prevent offset, and other fun stuff like that.

[MSperoni]

Ooo! And set it in China! With Kung-Fu! And lots of flashbacks and flashbacks within flashbacks!

I said it should be IMPROVED, not made WORSE.

[Rejected Again]

I said it should be IMPROVED, not made WORSE.

I don't think anything could make it worse. Which is sad considering how long I have read it :crying:

[Neni]

Eh, the Flash movies have... issues.

Issues like inconsistent sound quality, which I guess you can overlook considering everyone probably had different recording equipment, but also sound effects and silly accents in place of actual voice acting, and pretty dubious voice acting where there were no sound effects and silly accents. And timing, and using the comic straight up as a script, and so on.

Maybe Probably, but I still found them to be very funny. Probably because I liked Black Mage's and White Mage's voices so much. They hit spot on.

Also, the first few comics (which they were made for) weren't exactly as professional and neat-looking as the newer ones anyway.

[Eisenwill]

While this thread is on the topic of alternate forms of media 8 bit theater could take, I'm going to throw my favorite idea into the fray.
...
...
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...
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...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
Wait for it...
...
...
...
...
...
...
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...
BROADWAY MUSICAL!!!!!!! :D

[Rejected Again]

BM: Oh, Mindless slaughter, killing kids, burning churches, and Ha-do-kens.
Thief: Stealing everything, that's not bolted down, jacking everything from every town.
Together: These are a few of our favorite things!
RM: Stacking stats, with min max. Being a moron, I KNOW THAT!
Fighter: Uh... I like swords.
Together(Allthough out of time and off pitch): These are a few of our favorite things.

Sarda: Even I didn't see this coming.....

[stapler942]

Trouble with the flash videos seems to be multi-fold. As Meister points out, an incredibly faithful 8-Bit Flash Series would end up being fairly static and extremely dialogue heavy. Like, we're talking The Lord of the Rings Super-Extended 24 hour Edition with Tom Bombadil, The Council of Elrond word-for-word, everything.

A less faithful translation would probably upset purists (or maybe not?). Some of those prolonged speeches would have to go, jokes would have to be cut left and right for pacing*, entire comics if they interrupt the scene too suddenly. I can think of an example in one of the flash videos: Episode 4 (I believe), where BM is undressing WM with the power of his mind. That speech doesn't work too well where it is, because of the sudden shift in dialogue and just the sheer length of that segment. In general one would need careful editing and discretion towards timing when dealing with the shift from last panel to first panel of the next comic.

Also, animation style is a big issue (a subjective one at that). I myself found it a bit irksome when in Episodes 3-5 the mouths became animated. I realize that staring at a bunch of lifeless sprites isn't exactly animation put to good use, but the mouths did seem kind of weird and out of place. To me it seems almost better to have the characters and setting animated from more organic, non-8-bitty design than to stick with the old sprites and then give them moving features. That would give life to the characters and the action, and with the right artists it might look really cool. But then somebody might ask why it's called "8-Bit Theater" in the first place. Well, the original used plenty of organic-type backgrounds, and as long as it's a good tribute, with 8-Bit-esque humour plus something to add of its own...We needn't really ask.

Also, I would probably stick to normal subtitles rather than try to animate individual speech bubbles, especially when they need to move around a whole lot.

A great deal has probably been said already about voice acting (and about the other stuff), so I won't go into too much of it. Reading through the lines too quickly loses a great deal of the humour, and reading them slowly and carefully (with comic beats) means cutting much more precious dialogue. If you can't understand them, then it's not really an effective 8-Bit tribute (or maybe it is?)

*c.f. The Hitchhiker's Guide, in feature film. Imagine trying to cut down lines from previous stories without violating some kind of causality of humour (like removing a few bars from one of Beethoven's sypmhonies). And of course the dialogue that is gone is sorely missed.

[Ecks]

As has been stated, I wasn`t being serious about the flash movie thing. If someone can find a way to make it work, cool. If not, meh.

On an unrelated note, postin from my DSi.

[Edogaa]

I see one way of making the 8-bit jokes to 32 bit jokes work >_>

Instead, limit everything to some sort of cartoonish style, when someone mentions that everything is limited to 2D, and make a 3 dimensional monster come in. D:

See, it makes the joke somehow work >_> the change it be drastic, it still be a tribute, as long ast he characters and jokes are used in some form or another.

AND EVERYONE IT POSITIVELY HATE IT :dance:


Someone, make it, I wanna purists rage DX