Pokemon Umbral Discussion 14: Discussion Thread Player Character Conspiracy #1 [Archive]

Menarker

04-26-2010, 05:23 PM

Wrong type of "nice guy" there.

Typically, the sort of nice guys that "finish last" are the ones who are so caught up in trying to finding to find that single girl and altering his behavior to suit her while being caught up and obsessed in pleasing her while treating her like a "princess". The kindness of those guys may very well be fake for the purpose of trying to make themselves look safe and appealing or to prevent offending her in any way, but the insecurity and emotional baggage he burdens the girl he latch on can be a turn off.

Renny's niceness on the other hand is pretty much geninue (or so I think). He has his own ambition of path of sort, isn't a useless wreck without a girl and shares the happiness he has with others. The only thing that really hampers him a bit is not his niceness but his slightly oblivious nature and that he isn't actively seeking (in character) to bang women left and right, but he obviously spends more time with the ladies, especially with his very personal nature revolving around hugs and not hiding all his emotions and feelings (Dormond is the only guy in PATCA who has been unquestionably nice to him on a regular basis, while Renny is now a little nervous about approaching Pierce, Impact and Matt due to their past reactions and behaviors.) Whether his particular personality is appealing to the ladies depends on their individual preference based on looks and how they like his behavior or values as well as any other factors like strength or whatever.

So don't be greedy. I left quite a few others including Rayleen, Shizuka, Tsubasa, Harriette, Whitney among others.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 06:34 PM

Let me at least finish off a pokemon or two with him! Now that I boosted his stat up, he'll practically OHKO anything that doesn't resist him and have a boosted DEF. If he leaves the battle to join yours, he might lose his power bonus.
Just saying that we might need him to save us from dying horribly. Though maybe not anymore. We shall see. Though does he know baton pass? You could always keep cheating, baton pass his stats boost to whatever pokemon can best use it.

And there is no way Pierce isn't going to get arrested if he actually goes through with Drac's plans. Although, considering PATCA'a methods, he'd likely be re-recruited 2 hours later.
PATCA: We have absolutely no standards.

So don't be greedy. I left quite a few others including Rayleen, Shizuka, Tsubasa, Harriette, Whitney among others.
Dude. "Don't be greedy"? You get one girl. One. 1. Ooooooone. If you pick Lola, which you're welcome to, your claim to the others is null. Capisce?

Oh, and I just realized something that was bugging me. Drac, in the previous thread you were discussing your dragon slave/staff combo. Very nice idea. But you made a typo. You said it'd deal 6x damage, instead of 3x damage. I hardly have to tell you what a huge fallacy it would have been if your claim to 6x damage had been sincere. I mean, that would practically amount to getting two attacks, one with the 4x weapon, and one with the 2x weapon, which add to make 6x damage! That'd be like Impact tying a Dragon slave to another Dragon Slave and saying that that does 8x damage, because, after all, it's dragon/dragon, right? No, if you're gonna combine two weapons, then each is going to deal a half-attack. And that would amount to 3x damage.
Of course, this is all hypothetical, since you would never be so very, very stupid to claim 6x damage, justify it by way of logical fallacy and then think you could get away with it. :3

Though back to the girls... If not for the age, I'd totally have Impact go for Mika. I like the way she's written... But yeah, loli, so... I wonder, would it be over-ambitious to claim Shizuka? I don't think it'd interfere with Drac's and my agreement, since I agreed to surrender the rivalry... And Shizuka does seem to like Impact to the degree that she didn't kill him! Hmm...

I also still need a theme song for Impact. I've been doing some looking, but can't find anything excellent. The closest I got, really, was "Be Prepared" from the Lion King, and that has the wrong subject matter. Suggestions?

Bard The 5th LW

04-26-2010, 06:43 PM

Perhaps for when Impact becomes full-deon. Or in the sequel when he is the villain. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5S0dkLZoTg)

Otherwise, I got nothin'. Still trying to get one for Charlotte.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 06:44 PM

There are four of us male PCs, one whom never expressed any interest in the ladies. So that's about 3 guys

There are...

*Has to count*

Bah, I'm not counting them all! Let's list the ones who have appeared fairly often or had a strong presence.

Rayleen
Rachel
Lola
Harriette
Whitney
Shannon
Evangaleen
Shizuka
Mika
Kiyomi
Rio
Tsubasa
Chizuru

There are enough women to give the three guys four each! 3 each if Matt ends up wanting a few.
But yeah, if I had to choose one, it would be Lola. ^^ (While making her off-limits to the others, such as Pierce)

Regarding Baton Pass: Yeah, that was actually a question I was going to ask AB...

AB: Can baton pass be used to transfer the boosts or status penalties between pokemons that belong to other trainers or to pokemons already on the field so long as they are allies? Originally, I thought Baton Pass could only be used if they were my pokemon switching to my own pokemons, not passing the bonus to someone else's.

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 07:19 PM

I wonder, would it be over-ambitious to claim Shizuka? I don't think it'd interfere with Drac's and my agreement, since I agreed to surrender the rivalry... And Shizuka does seem to like Impact to the degree that she didn't kill him! Hmm...

Does Shizuka strike you as the type that would start dating a guy who can put up a fight nd not compete with him, especially as he gets better?

Besides, Shizuka's been described as a workaholic. Flirtation aside, she may be in a committed relationship with her job.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 07:32 PM

No, Tsubasa was the one described as the workaholic.

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=37519

Although she might very well believe that traveling the various dimensions/universes solving problems to be more important or interesting than settling down. Someone would have to charm her an awful lot, be amazingly strong and be willing to leave his life behind and travel with her to get anything longterm out of that.

EDIT: I noticed something odd about that page I linked. Shizuka and Tsubasa are both classified as "Demon". All the others aside from Kirie the angel and Nyoka the android, are classified as half demon or full demon in Fujiko's case. Is that a typo of some sort, or is there a special classification of demonhood that makes those two stand out from the other Kimonos?

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 07:40 PM

Ahem. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1025958&postcount=33)

Tsubasa: "As I was saying, Nyoka's an android who isn't a sexualoid, Mika's only twelve years old, Shizuka's even more of a workaholic than me, and Fujiko is fucking hideous."

EDIT: I noticed something odd about that page I linked. Shizuka and Tsubasa are both classified as "Demon". All the others aside from Kirie the angel and Nyoka the android, are classified as half demon or full demon in Fujiko's case. Is that a typo of some sort, or is there a special classification of demonhood that makes those two stand out from the other Kimonos?

I think a typo. Or maybe Shizuka and Tsubasa were born demons, unlike Fujiko who was a human turned half-demon who then experimented with some even satanic-er shit and became an ugly bastard thing, hence Full Demon.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 07:45 PM

Drac, are you sick? You didn't start arbitrarily insulting me when I shot down your super-weapon scheme.

Fair enough. So maybe not Shizuka. How about Rayleen? Yes, I have a thing for authority.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 07:45 PM

Thanks for the clarification. Anyhow the possibility that they are born demons as opposed to having received demonic powers via the Magatama has merit.

Is this proposed romance with Rayleen before or during the time that you will brainwash/mind-rape her but before you said you would ensure she is dead? (I'm assuming you're not going to bother doing her afterwards too.)

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 07:50 PM

Drac, are you sick? You didn't start arbitrarily insulting me when I shot down your super-weapon scheme.

Oh right.

No, fuck you.

What the hell's the point of a 3x weapon? I might as well use a regular Dragon Slave. I will, however, settle for 5x.

Is this proposed romance with Rayleen before or during the time that you will brainwash/mind-rape her but before you said you would ensure she is dead? (I'm assuming you're not going to bother doing her afterwards too.)

I don't know. Impact hasn't shown attraction to anyone yet. He may like 'em stiff.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 07:54 PM

Is this proposed romance with Rayleen before or during the time that you will brainwash/mind-rape her but before you said you would ensure she is dead?
Fair enough. Brainwash and romance aren't compatible.

I think what I'll do is, I will keep Shizuka as plan A, but build up a strong plan B in case that doesn't work out. Who shall plan B be?

Gah. Out of all the fine females you've listed above, the only possibilities are Chizuru and Evangleen.

Also:
Perhaps for when Impact becomes full-deon. Or in the sequel when he is the villain. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5S0dkLZoTg)

This is awesome. I'm tempted to make him go utterly insane, just to use that.

Edit:
What the hell's the point of a 3x weapon? I might as well use a regular Dragon Slave. I will, however, settle for 5x.
5x wouldn't be any less illogical than 6x. Just settle for the Dragon Slave, for now. Come my sidequest, you'll probably get something better. I haven't yet discussed it with AB, but it should be cool.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 07:56 PM

... I'll just walk right on past that

Does anyone feel weird about the implications of Bard's claim to Dormond?

A total gentleman like Dormond paired up with a total ballistic bitch like Charlotte.

The results aren't going to be exactly smooth sailing. ^^;

Geminex: And what about Harriette? Strong willed, does her own share of the fighting, and prefers strong tough guys. (Although I can definately seen Evangaleen working too)
Although technically then, you would be dating the sister of Lola whom I paired my character with.

Bard The 5th LW

04-26-2010, 07:58 PM

I'm surprised it took that long for someone to notice. And I'm glad that you may take my suggestion to heart Geminex.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 08:03 PM

And what about Harriette? Strong willed, does her own share of the fighting, and prefers strong tough guys. (Although I can definately seen Evangaleen working too)
Not sure. She just doesn't appeal that much. I crave power in everything I do, including romance. My ideal partner must be able to crush the mortal mind with but a twitch of their thoughts. Also, breasts would be good. Harriette fulfills one of those criteria.
...
I'm almost tempted to replace Impact's sidequest into the demonic realm with an episode of Bachelor. Almost, mind you.

I'm surprised it took that long for someone to notice.
I thought Dormond just makes up for it in bed. Or maybe his two pokeshifts have different personalities.

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 08:07 PM

5x wouldn't be any less illogical than 6x. Just settle for the Dragon Slave, for now. Come my sidequest, you'll probably get something better. I haven't yet discussed it with AB, but it should be cool.

AB already approved it!

Unless I know what I'm getting from your sidequest and how awesome it is, I'm keeping the 6x Dragon/Ghost Slave (gotta come up with a better name for it; Ether Draco?). I am, however, willing to give up dual-wielding.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 08:10 PM

Netherwurm?
Dracowisp?
Under-Dragon?

Geminex

04-26-2010, 08:11 PM

AB already approved it!
AB will approve anything as long as it's remotely fair and he's watched porn in the last 90 minutes. It's up to me to remain rational and logical.

I am, however, willing to give up dual-wielding.
That is good. I don't think Slayers should get dual-wielding, at all.

As for the weapons, I'm thinking each slayer/demon gets a signature weapon, customizable to some degree. But shh. That's a spoiler. Don't tell anyone, eh?

Edit:
Netherwurm?
Is it just me, or does this sound like a fetish-porn-star's name?

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 08:13 PM

AB will approve anything as long as it's remotely fair and he's watched porn in the last 90 minutes. It's up to me to remain rational and logical.

Dude, dude. You gotta relax. Kick back, watch some porn.

As for the weapons, I'm thinking each slayer/demon gets a signature weapon, customizable to some degree. But shh. That's a spoiler. Don't tell anyone, eh?

Dragon/Ghost Slave can be Pierce's signature weapon.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 08:15 PM

Ironic Echo! That's almost exactly what AB said to you when he implied that I was romancing Lola with the aid of Barry White in my PMs. :3

Glad you like the name Netherwurm though. ^^

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 08:16 PM

Well I did until Gem ruined it.

Then again, he just said that because he's German.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 08:18 PM

^^;

Dante, do you have any plans for what you might do in your next post? Since you have been put in my group and all?

DanteFalcon

04-26-2010, 08:21 PM

Geminex

04-26-2010, 08:21 PM

Ironic Echo! That's almost exactly what AB said to you when he implied that I was romancing Lola with the aid of Barry White in my PMs. :3
What is?

Dragon/Ghost Slave can be Pierce's signature weapon.
Yes, but
a) He won't get it until my side quest
and
b) I'm still not sure how I'd feel about 6x damage.

Dude, dude. You gotta relax. Kick back, watch some porn.
Ok, bear with me here.
First, analyze the degree of influence I have over this RP.
Next, consider how my influence would change if, instead of wanting to make it more awesome, story- and gameplay-wise, I had pictures of tentacle rape running through my head.
Would this be a good thing?

Oh, and regarding your modification of Pierce's actions in your post... yeah, seems allright, I guess. Though he does suggest pretty much everything to begin with. If we ever do start claiming (more) credit, I think Impact will claim that plan for himself. Cause, y'know, I came up with it. M'kay?

Menarker

04-26-2010, 08:25 PM

I'll have to read up on what we're fighting. If Renny has given him an order he'll most likely follow it. Unless it's inherently stupid in which he'll ignore said order and sleep the strongest enemy present after its been wailed on.

Also the only person I see Matt being able to stand hooking up with is Tsubasa.

Ah, well at the moment, Renny doesn't know that Matt has entered his group, since he pretty much seperated himself from everyone else for peace and quiet, so there is no orders directed to Matt at the moment.

Basically, a chance to make your appearance and do a move you think would be suitable. (Although I advise you to save both your super abilities for a bit later.)

EDIT: The Ironic echo was AB saying this to Pierce in particular.

But I think you're just imagining things. I think you need to take a long nap, have a few more beers, kinda mellow out, y'know?

Then Pierce saying a modified version to you. (Which you quoted above)

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 08:26 PM

Yes, but
a) He won't get it until my side quest
and
b) I'm still not sure how I'd feel about 6x damage.

As long as your sidequest doesn't take forever to happen, I guess I'm okay with that. Fuck you, 6x damage stays.

Ok, bear with me here.
First, analyze the degree of influence I have over this RP.
Next, consider how my influence would change if, instead of wanting to make it more awesome, story- and gameplay-wise, I had pictures of tentacle rape running through my head.
Would this be a good thing?

Well...

Oh, and regarding your modification of Pierce's actions in your post... yeah, seems allright, I guess. Though he does suggest pretty much everything to begin with. If we ever do start claiming (more) credit, I think Impact will claim that plan for himself. Cause, y'know, I came up with it. M'kay?

Yeah, I was a little iffy on that myself. But Pierce wouldn't forget to give orders to anyone, and I did make several mistakes for Impact to correct.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 08:31 PM

Yeah, I was a little iffy on that myself. But Pierce wouldn't forget to give orders to anyone, and I did make several mistakes for Impact to correct.
Fair enough. Like I said, I'm fine with anything as long as we split credit (for this part, anyway) by, say, 75/25. Because I'm just that self-important.

As long as your sidequest doesn't take forever to happen, I guess I'm okay with that. Fuck you, 6x damage stays.
I'm hoping to have it after yours. And then at least find a better way to justify it, other than "I tied them together and now they're more powerful!"

Well...
Please continue. I'd love to hear what your opinions on the increased sexualisation of this RP are.

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 08:35 PM

Fair enough. Like I said, I'm fine with anything as long as we split credit (for this part, anyway) by, say, 75/25. Because I'm just that self-important.

Sure. Is the 75% mine?

I'm hoping to have it after yours. And then at least find a better way to justify it, other than "I tied them together and now they're more powerful!"

How about Dragon's 4x damage against Ruin types + Ghost's 2x damage against Ruin types? That's the best I got.

Please continue. I'd love to hear what your opinions on the increased sexualisation of this RP are.

You'll see during Pierce's sidequest.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 08:36 PM

The only ones with tentacle among PATCA and the Kimonos that I'm aware of is Mollesk and Mika's special technique. *Aside from any grass pokemon with vine whip / power whip in Shannon's team.*

Of course, things can change in the future...

Bard The 5th LW

04-26-2010, 08:38 PM

All in favor for a Tentacruel Pokebrid say aye! All not in favor, say nay!
Nay!

Geminex

04-26-2010, 08:42 PM

How about Dragon's 4x damage against Ruin types + Ghost's 2x damage against Ruin types? That's the best I got.
Yeah. That equates to two attacks. Why the fuck should you get two attacks because you've combined two weapons?
But ok, we'll discuss this further later.

Sure. Is the 75% mine?
Good one. ^^

All in favor for a Tentacruel Pokebrid say aye! All not in favor, say nay!
Aye, provided that it is female and bisexual.

DanteFalcon

04-26-2010, 08:42 PM

Post up.

Matt would have a Full Restore and a Chesto Berry. (I believe we have a third item slot which is purposefully left empty)

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 08:51 PM

Yeah. That equates to two attacks. Why the fuck should you get two attacks because you've combined two weapons?
But ok, we'll discuss this further later.

It's Pierce's equivalent for dual-wielding. You'd get to swing two Dragon Slaves for 8x damage, after all.

Why do you not like dual-wielding? It's nothing we suggested, it's something AB came up with on his own. Stands to reason that AB's giving it to us because he knows it won't be overpowered.

Menarker

04-26-2010, 08:54 PM

Renny would have a Full Restore and two Full Revives.

Anyhow, interesting to note that Castform has Psych-up as well. He could feasiably max his attack stat and attack with Zen Headbutt, Leech Life and that sort of thing.

And when I send out Mollesk and start pumping up his DEF and SPEF, you can copy that boost too to make you damn hard to knock out.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 09:07 PM

Why do you not like dual-wielding? It's nothing we suggested, it's something AB came up with on his own. Stands to reason that AB's giving it to us because he knows it won't be overpowered.
I don't understand it myself, it's not like me to reject an upgrade. I just think that the class would be more fun if AB just fleshed out the accessories a bit more, instead of giving them two attacks per turn. Not just because, if they get those two attacks, it'll really be a case of "linear trainers, exponential slayers" (because seriously, they would be above and beyond what trainers can field), but also because Slayers, so far make up for being weaker than trainers in direct combat by being more versatile. For one, they're as effective in single-slot combat as they are in multi-slot combat. For another, being able to pick from any weapon and armor really lets them fight anything. They're more support, at the moment, than they are combat workhorses, and they're fun that way. Giving them two attacks would change that. Give them a few more accessory slots, invent new, fun accessories, maybe give them the ability to do some scouting ahead of time, so they can detect what types they'll be facing, and modify their loadout occasionally. Dual-wielding? That'd just take away their role.

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 09:10 PM

You do realize trainers get obscenely strong pokemon?

How about dual-wielding as an upgrade much, much later?

Alternately, how about an upgrade that makes Adrenaline Surge or Stamina Boost (whichever lets you attack twice) last for three turns? And then another upgrade that makes it last for five turns, and so on and so forth.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 09:17 PM

You do realize trainers get obscenely strong pokemon?
Slayers have base stats of 100. Adrenaline boost gives them 150, for total base stats of 900. When they get their half-demonic upgrade, they get even higher stats, and probably better weapons as well. So, you have an unit with ~200 attack, hitting you with super-effective, 150-damage attacks every turn.

What do trainers have that can keep up with that? And you want to double it?

Edit: I could imagine it if someone went Slayer/Slayer. It'd cost them an upgrade, but I could imagine it.

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 09:21 PM

So. If Slayers are as powerful as you say, why can't I have a weapon that delas 6x damage against Ruin-types?

It probably still wouldn't keep up with your full Demon stat boost.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 09:29 PM

So. If Slayers are as powerful as you say, why can't I have a weapon that delas 6x damage against Ruin-types?

*hisses*
This isn't about balancing, it's about logic.
I'll make you a deal. You get the weapon, and its 6x damage , and, in return, nobody mentions the PATCA-zord ever again. Also, you'll support me on my "No dual-wield for Slayers" stance.

We'll work out the weapon's other attributes later... I'm thinking that, when you attack with it, you can pick between ghost damage and dragon damage, it only deals *shudder* both against ruin types. Also, when you go Battle Master it takes up two weapon slots. When you go Demonic Battle Master, we'll see what happens to it.

Is this acceptable?

Dracorion

04-26-2010, 09:35 PM

*hisses*
This isn't about balancing, it's about logic.
I'll make you a deal. You get the weapon, and its 6x damage , and, in return, nobody mentions the PATCA-zord ever again. Also, you'll support me on my "No dual-wield for Slayers" stance.

Not even Magnegross?

We'll work out the weapon's other attributes later... I'm thinking that, when you attack with it, you can pick between ghost damage and dragon damage, it only deals *shudder* both against ruin types. Also, when you go Battle Master it takes up two weapon slots. When you go Demonic Battle Master, we'll see what happens to it.

I'm okay with picking between Ghost and Dragon damage except against Ruin types.

Hmmm... Two weapons slots? Part of me wants to go "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO". The other part is thinking "Hey, the only other weapon you probably need is the Ricewood Rifle!"

Is this acceptable?

If this really is about logic, how do you justify it taking up two weapon slots with it's small dimensions? And whatever you'd do to nerf it when Pierce goes half-demon?

I'll agree to support you on no dual-wielding. I'll agree to picking between Ghost and Dragon damage, I'll agree to taking up two weapon slots and I'll agree to drop Magnegross, but I think that's enough.

Geminex

04-26-2010, 11:35 PM

Magnegross is ok. Just no zord. And I don't intend to nerf it, I intend to buff it. More info later.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 12:37 AM

So we have an accord?

By the way, are you ever going to edit your RP post?

Menarker

04-27-2010, 12:48 AM

So Pierce and Charlotte both seem to be set on Pokemon Trainer / Slayer in the future. I myself am thinking of going Dual Pokemon Trainer (at least atm). Any thoughts on dual classing options you'd take, Geminex or Bard?

Geminex

04-27-2010, 12:56 AM

Well, I'm going Slayer/Half-demon/Full-demon. No dual-class for me.
What were you thinking, what'd the Trainer/Trainer get?

So we have an accord?

By the way, are you ever going to edit your RP post?
Yes and yes. Just gimme time, we're moving at the moment, so my schedule's a bit erratic.

To follow up on this:
More info later.
Like I said before, I was thinking that demons/slayers get a signature weapon, which does neutral damage by default. If yours does ghost/dragon damage by default, I'll have to reconsider the other weapons I was planning. That's what I meant when I said "When you go Demonic Battle Master, we'll see what happens to it.".

Astral Harmony

04-27-2010, 01:18 AM

@ Geminex (Middle of Page 1): Actually, PATCA's slogan is "We set the standard in having absolutely no standards." Try working that shit into a jingle.

@ Menarker (End of Page 1): Yes, Dormond can Baton Pass his stats on to allies. Y'see, this is why Rayleen wanted to make Renny the leader. You're so goddamned clever that it makes Rayleen want to choke him for being smarter than her in regards to Pokemon battles.

@ Dracorian (Start of Page 2): Shizuka can be a pretty motivated girl as well when it comes to freedom fighting. If you want to get on her good side, you'd better be ready to bid farewell to your world and live in the netherworld with her, crossing over with her into new worlds and fighting alongside her and looking only at her with those perverted eyes and whatnot. Eh, I think you can do it.

@ Geminex (Third Post of Page 2): And prosthetic arms, though it does look cool on her. One warning, she's not really used to it yet so request her to give you a handjob with her remaining arm.

@ Geminex (End of Page 4): You'll get more accessories, I promise. Remember when I mentioned the accessory that works like Explosion? I decided that it wasn't a joke. Ricewood Masterworks is always surging ahead with awesome technologies!

Now I'm Talking: Alright, Dormond's next Pokebrid form will be Tentacruel with the Synchronization Technique of Tentacle Rape. Just what the Charlotte ordered, so open wide and say "ahhh."

I pass the motion of combining the Dragon Slave with Phantomere's Shaft to create the Piercechucks, named after their clinically insane mastermind. It will be the Dragon Slave and the shaft tied together at their ends with a length of indestructible Big Red-flavored dental floss, because every weapon should rightly be a reminder to maintain proper dental hygiene at all times.

Besides, do remember that Pierce is not a Slayer. x6 crap damage is x6 crap damage, everybody. And don't forget how humiliating it would be to actually try wielding that mess of a weapon...

Shizuka: "Good lord, man. What in the hell are you trying to hit them with?"
Pierce: "P-...Piercechucks?"
Shizuka: "That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard since Nyoka suggested to Fujiko that a magical girl transformation would allow her to achieve her original human form."
Pierce: "Really?"
Shizuka: "It gets worse. Fujiko actually tried."
*flashback*
Fujiko: "With the radiance of love and the tears of a pure virgin's dreams, I destroy evil with the beating of my heart turned into pink laser beams! Shining Maiden Fujiko is here!"
Kirie: "Ahhh, my whole body is devouring itself!"
Rio: "Hawt."
*end flashback*
Shizuka: "And when you see something like Fujiko posing in the frilliest piece of shit you can buy off of e-bay while rhyming about love and rainbows and destroying evil, then you'll never be able to un-see it."

Anyways, I'll get posting in the real RP now.

Geminex

04-27-2010, 01:25 AM

Y'see, this is why Rayleen wanted to make Renny the leader. You're so goddamned clever that it makes Rayleen want to choke him for being smarter than her in regards to Pokemon battles.
a) That was my idea.
b) Oh, is that why Rayleen wanted to make him leader? Munchkining? Min-maxing? Gah! That's not strategy. That's not leadership. That's taking advantage of loopholes in the rules. You should be punishing him for it, not promoting him! Preferably punishing him, by giving him some competent enemies, who're good as using psych-up and whirlwind.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 01:25 AM

@ Dracorian (Start of Page 2): Shizuka can be a pretty motivated girl as well when it comes to freedom fighting. If you want to get on her good side, you'd better be ready to bid farewell to your world and live in the netherworld with her, crossing over with her into new worlds and fighting alongside her and looking only at her with those perverted eyes and whatnot. Eh, I think you can do it.

Wonder if I could get both Shizuka and Chizuru, somehow...

Hmm... Ideas are circling.

Shizuka: "And when you see something like Fujiko posing in the frilliest piece of shit you can buy off of e-bay while rhyming about love and rainbows and destroying evil, then you'll never be able to un-see it."

Okay, for future reference: I am cursed to picture anything I read, see, or hear about in my head. I will never sleep well again after this.

To get my mind off of this disturbing image: fuck you up the ass with the Piercechucks. I was thinking more like the Dragon Slave's blade with a hilt made out of Phantomere's scythe.

Although, if Pierce can actually pull off Piercechucks, it'd be worth it just to see people's reactions.

Geminex

04-27-2010, 01:29 AM

Wonder if I could get both Shizuka and Chizuru, somehow...
Hey, step off. I mentioned romance with Shizuka first, bitch.

Astral Harmony

04-27-2010, 01:30 AM

You know how it is here in Nuklear Power Forums, Dracorian. If you can't dual-wield, connect the two weapons with a length of chain or rope or something and then you can somehow hope to use both weapons without dual-wielding. And, because this is Nuklear Power Forums, it will somehow actually work even if the two weapons are guitars or skateboards or chijuajuas or something equally menacing.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 01:30 AM

Hey, step off. I mentioned romance with Shizuka first, bitch.

Sure, but now that we've proven that you can't actually have her she's fair game.

Geminex

04-27-2010, 01:34 AM

How have we proven that? So she's something of a workaholic. I can find a workaround.

Alternately, AB, get yer lazy ass to creating a female character with a personality (though not a backstory) that matches Impact's!

Menarker

04-27-2010, 01:44 AM

Well, I'm going Slayer/Half-demon/Full-demon. No dual-class for me.
What were you thinking, what'd the Trainer/Trainer get?

Oh, I figured it would be something like an upgrade class in a manner of speaking. Then my next upgrade would be half demon. (Well, my character will attempt the Magatama. If Renny somehow ends up as an angel like Kirie, all the better, but there is no way to predict it or plan for it. It's ability would be more support.)
I also told AB that I'm willing to trade away "Trainer Attack" upgrade because I don't plan to have Renny attack directly with weapons, and it's not in his character.
Some stuff listed below which would be neat if I got in terms of the upgrade class.

Pokemon Breeder: These trainers hold an incredible bond with their pokemons due to the immense dedication and effort to raise them beyond the basic requirement of a trainer. While pokemon trainers are challenged to learn about the pokemons that exist and how to harness them, the breeder has a higher calling in the vocation to bring out the very best out of one's pokemons. When a breeder is a trainer too, one can be easily assured that their proteges have been groomed to the sheer pinacle of excellence.

(The following are just list of suggestions of benefits for the Pokemon Breeder, if it gets approved.)
A: All pokemons are level 100. Assume that 2 of each of the pokemons stats are at their maximum value as according to Serebii's website, as a result of careful EV training. Assume that nature is beneficial.
B: Custom Items
C: Being able to change movesets once per mission in between combat.
D: Damage dealt to pokemons are increased by a certain percentage due to being a practiced professional in pokemon battles. (not ruin pokemon or pokebrids or anything that isn't a pokemon.)
E: The Leader Pokemon and maybe the others having a sort of Testament Drive.
F: Ability to teach a move that is normally not available to a pokemon, within reason. Like teaching Punishment to Umbreon. It's a dark move that Umbreon cannot learn despite being a dark type.
G: Each one of Renny's pokemon gain an attack that gains power via the happiness rating similar to Return that is one of the element type of whatever type the pokemon is. Such a move is treated as an HM and doesn't take up a move slot. Probably has a power of 120ish or so. (Return has 102 power when maxed)

EDIT: Also, I think there is more to Rayleen wanting Renny to be leader than just that such as personality or whatever (in-character). But in terms of the sort of tactics that Gem is talking about, we have been put in railroad plot pretty much, so Renny never had a chance to show if he's good at it or no.

Geminex

04-27-2010, 01:53 AM

A: All pokemons are level 100. Assume that 2 of each of the pokemons stats are at their maximum value as according to Serebii's website, as a result of careful EV training. Assume that nature is beneficial.
B: Custom Items
C: Being able to change movesets once per mission in between combat.
D: Damage dealt to pokemons are increased by a certain percentage due to being a practiced professional in pokemon battles. (not ruin pokemon or pokebrids or anything that isn't a pokemon.)
E: The Leader Pokemon and maybe the others having a sort of Testament Drive.
F: Ability to teach a move that is normally not available to a pokemon, within reason. Like teaching Punishment to Umbreon. It's a dark move that Umbreon cannot learn despite being a dark type.
G: Each one of Renny's pokemon gain an attack that gains power via the happiness rating similar to Return that is one of the element type of whatever type the pokemon is. Such a move is treated as an HM and doesn't take up a move slot. Probably has a power of 120ish or so. (Return has 102 power when maxed)

Just my two cents:
A) Seems allright, though aren't all pokemon at level 100 anyway?
B) How strong would these items be?
C) Sounds cool
D) What percentage?
E) I'd say only the two leaders. And not nearly as powerful as a legendary's.
F) Please not this one. You'd abuse the hell out of it.
G) Not 120. That'd be excessive. If it uses a move-slot, I'd be fine with 120, but as a free move? I'd give it 100 at best.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 02:03 AM

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 02:11 AM

How have we proven that? So she's something of a workaholic. I can find a workaround.

More like there's no way for Impact to date Shizuka without developing a rivalry.

Which would be a breach of our agreement (and it took forever for us to come to that, you sure you wanna throw it away like that?). Which would in turn breach every agreement we ever made because I'd have no reason to trust you anymore, and we'd descend into apathy.

In the end, we'd spend twenty discussion threads per RP thread arguing, trying to screw each other over while trying to get AB to approve whatever ridiculous shit we want for our characters.

You sure you wanna do that? Because I do. But I'm a man of my word.

Besides, if it makes you feel better, Rayleen has made more progress with Harliette than Pierce with Chizuru.

And his relationship with Shizuka amounts to her playing with him like a six-year-old.

Menarker, in regards to:

A) Sounds great except for having their pokemon at level 100. The rest of us only have pokemon at level 70, and it's a huuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between 100 and 70.
E) I agree with Impact, just the leaders and not as strong as legendaries.
F) If and only if AB approves it, and it's made public to the rest of us players so we can discuss it.
G) I'd say 110 or 105.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 02:19 AM

Drac A: I assumed that you guys have leveled a bit along the way. (And that one of AB's rewards for this quest might be a boost in level via Rare Candies that Renny's family makes. But Renny's pokemon would be quite potent compared to the others.) The level 100 thing was to make math-work easy since I wouldn't have to make up a number on the scale to find out how high a pokemon's stat is, especially with stat boost moves. I could just take the highest number on the appropriate scale of the Serebi website. Takes a lot of math and guesswork out and less arguments.

Drac E: Guess we have an accord on that.

Drac F: I was planning on having it require AB approve any such moves in the first place, although with all the other benefits I posted, this one would be the first to go if I had to choose.

Drac G: Well, keep in mind that 100 power is still very nice for a few reasons. Some types don't have high power moves. Like how Dark types don't have any attack move more than 80 power and how Ghost only has one move over 100 and that's Giratiana's signature move and how one of the only bug type moves with high power is Megahorn which Heracross is the only bug type to have. Also, if Renny's pokemon is higher level than everyone else's pokemon, then it somewhat balances out. But more power is more power! I'm happy if they get more.

Astral Harmony

04-27-2010, 02:37 AM

I did create such a character. Her name is Discord. And hey, she's the bitch with Pierce's Dialga! Oh, horrible, horrible circumstance.

You'll see 'er in Mission Three. And if you should happen to talk to her, you'll have your heart fucking crushed.

Kirie's not terribly different from you, either.

Still working on RP post.

Geminex

04-27-2010, 02:50 AM

A: AB said that our pokemons are around 70s when we started, so I expect we're around late 70 or early 80s at this point. Maybe late 80s or early 90s for legendaries or leaders.

B: Well, basically they wouldn't be anything terribly drastic, but something that operates more on conditions than actual straight % boost. Here is a sample item.

Loyal Support Scarf (Unique Item)
Effect: Once per battle, when a Hit Points of a pokemon would be reduced to zero for any reason except for self use moves that directly make the pokemon faint such as Explosion, that pokemon's hitpoint remains at 1 instead for the entire turn regardless of how many times or how strongly it is hit or the effects of moves that hit it, unless the item is stolen/knocked off in the process. This item works regardless of whether of the damage is direct damage, status damage like confusion or poison or ghost curse, weather like sandstorm, or even OHKO move. The item is not consumed in the process. Only Renny's Pokemon can equip it and only one of this item can exist. If the item would be stolen, it is knocked off instead.

D: I was thinking 25%, no more than 50% boost. (Similar to a Permanent Helping Hand)

E: Only leaders and not exactly as powerful as legendaries sounds ok. (Although Mollesk is technically as powerful as Mewtwo stat wise and Togekiss would be a psuedo legendary if his attack stat was proportional to his other stats.)

F: Fine. That's cool. Not this one.

G: 100 power HM move with free ability to be whatever element the pokemon using it is? (If Swampert uses it, it's either a ground or water move). And its attack type (physical or special) can be chosen. (So Togekiss doesn't end up with a crappy Attack move or Swampert with an inferior Special Attack move)

A) Eh. Like Drac said, it is a rather large difference. If we assume that pokemon reach max level at the end of next mission (or maybe the one after that), I think it'd be ok. Though really, I'd find it preferable if we just assumed everyone was level 100.

B) Wait, what? Seriously? No. Nothing that powerful. Stuff that's situational, maybe some fun new berries, but something that amounts to a revive and auto-cast protect? That's rather strong. If this was your only thing, maybe, but in combination with the rest? Nah.

D) Humm...
Maybe this: All pokemon get an extra 30% when using STAB attack. So a 1.8 multiplier, rather than a 1.5. This works against anything.
E) Kay. Also, maybe add a condition that Testament Drives'll only work once par battle.
G) Lemme think about this one again.

Edit:
And in regards to Drac:
If I don't get lucky by the end of my sidequest, I'll drop it. I'll also make sure not to challenge her in the way you would. I can make that work.

Astral Harmony

04-27-2010, 05:02 AM

I can see a Pokemon Breeder class, sure.

Anyways, I can't believe how long that post took. But it feels good to have finally done it.

Because Renny's side has it worse and the enemy Pokebrids understand fear better than Ruin Pokemon ever could, the Morale Integrity Level of the enemy formation on the front lawn is more sensitive. In other words, they'll frighten more easily, especially when the allies there start filling coffins.

Now each part of a battle incorporates synopsises for Ally Phase and Enemy Phase, so you can see a synopsis for what the good team does and a different synopses for what the enemy side does. Considering there's two parts to the battle (front lawn and back lawn), that's four synopsises in total.

Geminex

04-27-2010, 06:04 AM

Yeah. The work you put in is really impressive. Check your user CP.

More Atunhand. :(

Is there some way to destroy corpses? Or, alternately, can we get a chance to hit any incoming Atunhand before they get their groove on?

Also, can Impact heal himself, to regain his ability to use Dragon Slaves?

Edit: Of course, AB's gone, so here's my plan...

Shizuka: Apple splitter. That's the multi-target one, right? Yes, that's the second signature technique I'm using, but it'll be worth it. Wait for Charlotte's and Whitney's moves to use it, though.
Kiyomi: Attack Orbishriek #1 with spear.
Rachel: Have Metagross hit the Atunhand.
Pierce: Have Metagross hit Orbishriek #2
Rayleen: Have Rayquaza hit the Atunhand. If it's dead already, have it split its attack between Orbishrieks #1 and #2.
Charlotte: Super fang on Juggernaut.
Impact: Dual-wield revolver and fire-damage gunblade, hit the Harpressor-lifted corpse. The fire, plus the impacts, should hopefully be enough to ignite it.
Pierce's personal: Pierce, hit Atunhand before Rayquaza does.
Charlotte's personal: Charlotte uses her shotgun against the Harpressor-lifted corpse, to shake it up a little.
Whitney: Dream eater on sleeping Orbishriek. (#4)
Mika's Juggernaut: Taunt enemy Juggernaut. I was initially planning to send it toward the pokebrids, to support them, but they really don't need support, whereas we certainly do...
Also, we request Renny's mother for support, to heal Impact. I want to be able to actually deal damage using Impact. I miss his competence already.
Also, also, Charlotte and Pierce might want to use some potions on their mons. I'd hate to lose Spitz.
-----

What this'll do:
Hopefully kill Orbishriek 1, 2 and 4. Again, I'd be happy with two out of three possible kills.
Kill Atunhand.
Detonate Harpressor-carried corpse. Should stop them from using it, and, with any luck, deal enough damage to them (along with Shizuka's attack) to kill them
Weaken Juggernaut to, say, 30%, and stop it from doing anything.
Kill the two pre-weakened Raikner (mechanized cavalry was awesome).

Best-case scenario, all of the above happens and we'd get counter-attacked by:
2 Raikner
1 Orbishriek

A more cynical prediction would be
2 Raikner
2 Orbishriek
1 Harpressor

Plus whatever reinforcements they have. It'd also produce one hell of a lot of corpses, so I fear Atunhand. Do any of our pokemon know earthquake? Cause I could totally imagine a metagross using earthquake to bury the corpses, but not actually deal damage to anyone.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 08:38 AM

AB? Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but Superpower reduces the Attack and Defence of the pokemon USING the move. It's a powerful move with a drawback, similar to Overheat.

A)
B) Wait, what? Seriously? No. Nothing that powerful. Stuff that's situational, maybe some fun new berries, but something that amounts to a revive and auto-cast protect? That's rather strong. If this was your only thing, maybe, but in combination with the rest? Nah.

The only thing this effectively work out as is a free attack (or free defense of someone using Follow Me) and any implications of it being at 1 hitpoint, while also preventing slow pokemons from being ganged up and knocked out before it does anything (All of my pokemon are fairly slow compared to Pierce or Charlotte). The pokemon is still left with one hitpoint, and is subject to being knocked out if it tries to do any other attack before it can be restored. The practical implications hardly any different from if it was or wasn't wearing it. If it wasn't wearing the item and it was knocked out, I use a Full Revive. With this item, the item used to bring it back is a Full Restore instead. Hardly much different. It sounds powerful, but in the long run, it's requiring the foe to press on just a bit extra harder to knock it out while buying time to set up or have an ally attack without fear. (Impact will be thankful if Togekiss for example guarded him from a powerful ruin pokemon). It's pretty much in theme with the entire defense/support thing that Renny is anyhow.

Maybe this: All pokemon get an extra 30% when using STAB attack. So a 1.8 multiplier, rather than a 1.5. This works against anything.

Doesn't make sense to me. The idea is that Renny's pokemon are so well trained and practiced professionals that they perform their attacks rather unerringly and probably hit more vital locations.

Keep in mind that I'm already self limiting so that I'm not switching out the pokemons for any other. (Might want to put a further restriction so that if Renny is ever forced to use a pokemon that isn't his Togekiss, Swampert, Magnezone, Umbreon, Shaymin, Mollesk, they don't get the bonuses pertaining to them.)

Testament Drives only working once seems fine to me.

Anyhow, that's for the future. ^^:

EDIT: If I send Dormond over to the other team to act as support, could he feasibly keep his maxed out attack stat to baton pass over to Impact or Shizuka? Then Rachel could heal him and Impact wreck havoc with stim boost giving him 150 to all stats, multiply the attack by 4 and sweep the foes using... Slayer's Sweep I guess. Or Shizuka does her 4X Apple Slicer

Heck, maybe I can get Matt to use Teleport on Dormond so there is no wasted time. Maria can heal up Matt then.

EDIT: Is this ok AB?

In response of Rayleen stating that Impact needs support, Renny sends Dormond to hopefully be teleported by Matt to the other side so he can Baton Pass the 6 stage Attack Boost to Impact or Shizuka. (Totally in character given Dormond loyalty to Rayleen)

Renny summons Shaymin's Flight Mode. Shaymin hits both Spinda and Delcatty with a divided STAB Seed Flare (Divide and STAB cancel each other out). 10% chance of flinching and 40% chance of reducing their special defence by 2 stages if they are still around, which I doubt. (I assume it's still daytime and thus Shaymin is still in flight mode?)

Dominic Snorlax to use Max Power Earthquake targeting Probopass for quad effective damage and Steelix for Super effective damage. Hope that the "backlash" will target Flying Shaymin and thus doesn't hit anyone on my side. SUCH INCREDIBLE DESTRUCTIVE POWER! Put the fear in everyone... including our foes. :3

Harriette to shoot down Spinda with Fighting bullets. Super Effective

Lola standby and heal the person/pokemon most damaged.

Shannon to attack Sandslash with Leafeon's Leaf Blade for Super Effective STAB damage

Moon to use Starmie's Psychic on Dustox

Evangaleen to use Thunder on Sharpedo. Super effective STAB

Maria to use Full Restore on Matt

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 10:15 AM

I did create such a character. Her name is Discord. And hey, she's the bitch with Pierce's Dialga! Oh, horrible, horrible circumstance.

You'll see 'er in Mission Three. And if you should happen to talk to her, you'll have your heart fucking crushed.

Dibs.

Fucking dibs.

I agree with Impact's strategy. Would be nice if he can get Dormond's stats.

But who gets to give the orders?

Menarker

04-27-2010, 10:31 AM

Orders for what?

Renny would just say that Maria won't leave him alone, that he sending a special boost courtesy of Dormond and that (using his entire mission leader authority) Rachel should heal Impact so he can use the boost right away.

Dormond get Teleported > Rachel heals Impact > Dormond cast Baton Pass on Impact > Impact flips his shit.

Although this might require Impact to edit his tactic since he'll be able to attack with Dragon Slave on the same turn... but I think that's worth it. ^^

150 Attack Stat, multiply that by 4, 130 power weapon, 8x damage with Dragon Slave... fun. ^^
Impact could feasably hit 2 or 3 ruin pokemons by having each take half or a third of the damage respectively, which could still do a shitload of damage, maybe still kill them.

EDIT! Alternatively, Dormond could cast Baton Pass on Shizuka. Multiply the power of her Apple Splitter by 4. ^^ Yeah, I'm thinking of doing that instead.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 10:37 AM

He could maybe even solo the Juggernaut.

I meant, who gets to, in-character give out Gem's strategy? You know, between Impact and Pierce.

Shizuka's boosted Apple Splitter would be good for one attack. 8x Dragon damage is forever.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 10:43 AM

Well, the fun part is that Dormond can pass it to Shizuka, she rapes pretty much all the mooks while heavily damaging the big guys, while Rachel heals Impact.

Next turn, Dormond uses Psych-Up to copy the boost that was on Shizuka.

Turn after, Dormond Baton Passes it to Impact... *Repeat this two stage step for every target deserving a max attack boost.*

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 11:07 AM

Well now, that's ridiculous.

I mean, awesome, but ridiculous.

I know that's why AB wanted you to be leader in the first place, but I say that's exactly why you shouldn't be leader.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 11:12 AM

Oh please, you guys never hid the fact that "Renny shouldn't be leader" even before AB mentioned that.

Question is, are you going to implement the awesome but ridiculous plan I mentioned above? :3

You think Renny should be given a different title like "Kickass Battle Tactian"?

Whitney can also use Psych-Up so she can use Zen Headbutt and the few other physical moves she has. ^^ Even as low as her attack is, it's still much higher than her special attack after the boost.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 11:25 AM

You're never going to be leader again. Christ.

Gem still needs to have a say, but I guess I'm fine with implementing the plan.

I'll give you just "Tactician". Or maybe "Tactian".

Oh God, now Whitney too? I mean, I wanna do it too of course but JESUS CHRIST MAN GODDAMNIT.

Geminex and I are both going to take credit. Impact will suggest that Dormond Baton Pass his boost to Shizuka, I'll suggest Whitney's.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 11:27 AM

Impossible. Renny is the one sending Dormond with the entire idea, telling Dormond what to do and all that. Credit goes to him only in character. In the forums, only Gem is eligible for credit due to him mentioning Baton Pass, but I get Psych Up and teleport credit. (And having set up Snorlax and Togekiss and Maria in such as way as to get it to your group by second turn.)

Of course, Pierce can get credit for Whitney since Renny isn't involved with her tactics in any way. She just happens to have that move in her list and be in your party.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 11:30 AM

Okay, Gem can get Baton Pass.

But I get Whitney using Psych Up.

As for you, we need to work out a system where you can't take credit for all of your ideas. To discourage you from going overboard with munchkinning.

I mean, sure, you can come up with something that completely breaks the game and kills everything, but you'd only be able to take credit for a little bit of it.

Astral Harmony

04-27-2010, 01:57 PM

You can destroy corpses in a variety of ways. You could set them on fire with a fire type move (in other words, kill it with a fire move, hit with a fire move after it's dead, or kill it when it has a burn condition). Certain methods will also prevent corpses from becoming useful to Atunhands. For example, Shizuka's Apple Slicer divided her target into eight pieces. Not much an Atunhand can do for a corpse in that condition. And of course, Atunhands cannot mutate other Atunhands.

You can also inflict Overkill on a target. Yes, it's something I just came up with as I'm typing this post. Overkill is the insane destruction of a critically-wounded target using an move that is unnecessarily destructive, like Draco Meteor on a critically wounded Raikner. The Raikner is defeated so badly that an Atunhand cannot use it. Overkills are also a good way to reduce an enemy formation's morale. Well, more than simply killing the enemy. It's not the best strategy right now because you still have a large number of foes on the field, but it's something to bear in mind.

As for the Superpower, I must've read the strategy guide wrong. I was kinda trying to hurry, even if I was enjoying Lil Jon and Yu-Gi-Oh Abridged episodes the whole way.

Now I'm off to work.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 03:06 PM

Ooooh, overkill. Sounds useful in my group already due to having that huge power snorlax ready to lay the beatdown on the poor souls with maxed out attack and earthquake. ^^

Well, AB didn't protest, so I guess I'll go along with my plan as soon as I hear from Gem.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 03:19 PM

Impact can get Discord after Pierce meets her, at the soonest (I've got a perfectly good, in-character, make-sense-no-sex reason for Pierce meeting her first, I promise!). But preferably after she dies and he gets his Dialga.

Hm, Overkill sounds like the kinda thing I wanna have a Dragon pokemon for.

I think maybe I'll switch to Kingdra. Pierce hasn't seen her since she ran off to play with Swampert and Shaymin, so who knows what kinda trouble that little bitch has been getting into.

EDIT: You know, I totally forgot to bite AB's head off for this:

@ Dracorian (Start of Page 2): Shizuka can be a pretty motivated girl as well when it comes to freedom fighting. If you want to get on her good side, you'd better be ready to bid farewell to your world and live in the netherworld with her, crossing over with her into new worlds and fighting alongside her and looking only at her with those perverted eyes and whatnot. Eh, I think you can do it.

Whether Pierce can or can't is irrelevant: of course he can. The problem is that you've gone on record in the RP saying that Shizuka was impressed with Impact, while Pierce gets no mention. Nevermind that Pierce managed to keep up with a fully trained Slayer in going up against a seven hundred-year-old demoness. Plus she was playing with him the entire duel (unless that whole Ho-Oh thing was on purpose and somehow a sign of respect, but how would that work?).

So go change that.

Pierce's penis size, and mine, are at stake here!

EDIT 2.0: Also forgot about this:

Edit:
And in regards to Drac:
If I don't get lucky by the end of my sidequest, I'll drop it. I'll also make sure not to challenge her in the way you would. I can make that work.

You have no idea how Pierce would challenge Shizuka, even if he wasn't trying to get into her pants. You can take guesses and I can shoot them down for you, if you'd like.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 08:23 PM

Well, I need to start writing my post, so I'll assume that Gem would be ok with my plan, and buff Shizuka and give his group Dormond and all that.

If Gem gives me a very good reason otherwise, I'll edit as needed.

Geminex

04-27-2010, 09:36 PM

You think Renny should be given a different title like "Kickass Battle Tactian"?
How about "cheater"? "Cheater" sounds nice.

KILLJOY TIME:
I propose the following balancing solutions, to be implemented from this battle onwards:
Self-damage unable to be healed by items (that means if Snorlax belly-drums, he'd better have rest ready)
Psych-up only to be used on enemies (this was its original purpose. To counter teams that rely heavily on buffs. It wasn't supposed to make buffing more profitable)
And, while I'll gladly take credit for realizing a good use for Baton pass, I'd imagine that switching between battles would remove any buffs that a pokemon or pokebrid has. Because, really, for a pokemon, that'd be the equivalent of returning and being re-deployed, which would most certainly cancel the boost. For pokebrids and slayers, I'd imagine that whatever it is wears off in the time from exiting one battle to entering another.

So, even if we teleport, I really don't think it'd be possible. Or that it should be. So, very good reason? Balancing. :3

Pierce managed to keep up with a fully trained Slayer in going up against a seven hundred-year-old demoness

I don't know about this, but I think the entire point of Shizuka being impressed with Impact is that Impact showed a lot more skill than Pierce. Due to, y'know, being a fully trained Slayer. Not that it'd show in combat, mind you, because she's way beyond both of us, but I don't think that Pierce would've matched Impact's skill.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 09:41 PM

Impact got all of one scratch on Shizuka. And only because she was momentarily distracted by the sword about to fall on Impact's head.

Pierce got one cut (accidental, but still worth about as much as Impact's scratch), a kick and a shoulder slam.

Score: Pierce 3, Impact 1.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 09:47 PM

"That's stupid and you're stupid in association!"

:3

Anyhow, AB didn't seem to protest at all.

But the main thing I protest about your statement was the "requirement to have self-damage unhealable by items!" Belly Drum was meant to be risky and I decided that in order to deal with the risk, I would substitute a different pokemon by the use of Follow-Me which was used exactly as it was meant to be. In this case, Togekiss. I invested a move for the sake of support, and it turned out to be the perfect time to use it. (I didn't plan this battle or know anything about the battle, so don't say I planned this all. I'm making do with what I thought to bring with me). You're basically nerfing two moves in the attempt to nerf one. The risk was there all the same. If Snorlax was targetted after using Belly Drum, then he would have been knocked out. By investing a move slot, I was allowed the option to substitute a different pokemon, but it still resulted in losing a pokemon. The entire concept of using options and giving up resources to get one more usable in the long run is a viable part of tactics!

Also, only targetting opponent's is pretty bull too. It's a perfectly viable team option and not illegal in the games either. It only doesn't show up in games often because there is no almost no cruical team battles in any games of the plot. If 2 vs 2 battles were more implemented in the games especially for the end battles, it would have seen more use as a buff option.

The Teleport thing, I can understand. If AB thinks that the buff won't stay on, then that's fine.

Anyhow, if Gem doesn't agree, I guess Renny can't send any support (well, without making use Dormond's boost first.)

Geminex

04-27-2010, 09:48 PM

Landing the blow does not evidence of superior skill make.

And besides, when did Pierce connect with a kick and a shoulder slash?

Edit: And rather large response to Menarker's post coming up soon.

Dracorion

04-27-2010, 09:53 PM

Landing the blow does not evidence of superior skill make.

Then what the hell does it make?

And besides, when did Pierce connect with a kick and a shoulder slash?

Sorry, shoulder slam. Right there at the end, it connected. And a kick, I think during the second turn.

Geminex

04-27-2010, 10:18 PM

Anyhow, if Gem doesn't agree, I guess Renny can't send any support (well, without making use Dormond's boost first.)
He can send his mother. She should arrive quickly enough. Keep Dormond for yourself, go crazy.

I have rather a lot to do at the moment, I'll be back later, with rebuttal to Menarker, rebuttal to Drac and RP post. Drac, have Pierce act as if Impact had given above orders. You can show him deep in tactical thought, mulling over where his skills'd be best put to use, but let me give the orders, m'kay?

Menarker

04-27-2010, 10:30 PM

Well, I wonder if Dormond can keep his boost if he came the old-fashioned way. Might end up a turn of delay regardless of whether it is him or Maria.

AB might end up with a day off since we're busy discussing stuff. ^^;

Geminex

04-27-2010, 10:32 PM

Ok, so maybe I have one or two more minutes.
I'll mention this further in my Rebuttal, but also, I don't really want Shizuka to OHKO everything this turn. It'd be too easy, and the implications of that would be more far-reaching than you'd think. Yes, I'm sort of being a douche, jumping on more or less every advantage you get and declaring it imbalanced, but I mean well. Trust me.

Menarker

04-27-2010, 10:46 PM

Just for the record, the basic uses of the moves and tactics I've used such as with Follow Me aren't really "advantages". You guys could have the same things too if your style was closer to defense or support. Most of you guys chose different things to focus on. Charlotte have pokemons that hit with power and speed along with a few tech moves focusing on cutting down foes. Pierce moves have a bit of balance along with combos like Rain Dance / Thunder. Mine was based on support, endurance and a patient build up.

Advantages would be more like upgrades that only apply to you (such as the unique benefits of the half/full demon upgrades or the Pokemon Breeder), or if AB allows the teleport thing, allowing a benefit that has no precedent in the games. Most of the stuff I've used are powerful, but also come with their own risks and they have precedents in the games.

Mind you, that this wouldn't have been possible by myself. None of my pokemons have psych up or baton pass on their move list. You chose to have all the sheer power of the Kimonos for yourself. I myself got the EEE and Dormond and everything that comes with it, even though I never planned for it. You got your own "advantages" and I got my own based on moves that were planned ahead before the circumstances were revealed.

But fine, no boosting Shizuka. Would you rather that Impact got boosted instead?

*Waits to hear the rest of your rebuttal*

Astral Harmony

04-28-2010, 12:43 AM

I would like a day off yes to make my two characters in Toastburner B's signups, but thanks to Nightwish rockin' out in my ears, I feel amped enough to do both.

Impact, I'm going to warn you right now: Discord fucking hates men (she doesn't particularly care for other women, either). The only two guys she can tolerate enough to even stand near without bissecting them with her twin swords are Major Grant (military officer in Mission Three with Arceus) and Lucian (fellow mercenary in Mission Three with Palkia). Other guys had better come hoping that all they wind up in is the hospital, and not the morgue.

Anyways, I'll start posting now.

EDIT: I took a look at the RP thread and realized only Charlotte posted. Thank you, thank you, thank you, you marvelous bastards.

To show my appreciation, here's some gifts:

Hey, here's a sexy Zangoose!

http://www.gossipgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Jessica-Nigri-Zangoose.jpg

More of Misty

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/8/14/633858217473816815-Misty.jpg

And to finish off my gift giving, let me give you some additional tactics to try out:

Rayleen: "Certain moves change effectiveness when the morale of the enemy formation is low. Remember when Tyranitar's Roar move only scared away a Gengar temporarily in Mission Two? Well, even though I was in the hospital, I remember that, too. Anyways, if you try Roar out when the enemy formation's morale is low, you'll get far more satisfying results! What other possibilities are out there? Well, just ask Armored Bishoujo. She's the GM, after all."

Armored Bishoujo: "True dat. Combat changes on the fly all the time. There's always new strategies to unearth, and you'll never know the limits until you mention the possibility of something to me. Armored Bishoujo: I set the new standard in Pokemon battles. It's like the difference between Yu-Gi-Oh the card game and Yu-Gi-Oh the anime based on the card game."

Geminex

04-28-2010, 01:21 AM

Pokemon was primarily a 1v1 game. Stats and movepools were balanced for 1v1. 2v2? More of a gimmick, I always felt. You wouldn't train a team for 2v2, at least not for competitive 2v2. So when I wonder if something's balanced or not, I usually start by looking at what role the move fullfilled in the original 1v1. What were its benefits? What were its demerits? Belly drum's role was a gamble. You were putting yourself in danger by halving your HP, but if you survived said danger, that would pay off. And I'm actually fine with your using Togekiss' follow me. You alleviated the danger for 1 round, gave Snorlax a chance to get back on its feet, so to speak. But what wouldn't have been possible, in 1v1 or two 2v2 was that you immediately removed any danger by healing Snorlax fully. That's not how it's supposed to work. In exchange for that kind of attack bonous, you're supposed to be at the mercy of sweepers and super-effective attacks. It's supposed to be a continous risk, that forces you to either waste precious time healing, or simply risk having your, now very valuable, pokemon OHKO'd. Being able to fully heal a belly-drummer the turn they use that move really removes almost all risk.

As for psych-up, again, I'm looking at what its purpose was in 1v1. It was to counter enemy over-buffing, to, once again, create a risk of sorts, and discourage teams specialized only on buffing. If we let it be used on allies, then that would turn around entirely, it'd make buffing more profitable, since highly-buffing just one pokemon would give you the ability to buff the rest of your team as well.

So, yeah, I'm almost certain that those moves weren't intended to be used the way you're using them. And considering the kind of advantages they gave you, I don't think they should be used that way.

Of course, the question is, why not? Why am I so intent on spoiling your fun?
Well, a small part of that is competitiveness, I confess. Part of my motivation to stop you from getting extremely strong is the urge to stop me from getting (by comparison) extremely weak. But that's only minor. The majority lies in Paradigm shifts. No, not the pokebrid technique. Real paradigm shifts.
A paradigm shift is, originally, a phrase used to describe a change in basic assumptions and axioms in a science. Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift

In this RP, a paradigm is what I'd refer to as the general, basic strategy in use by players. Up until now, this strategy has been damage-focused. Our primary goal was to deal damage, and to prevent enemies from dealing damage. And that was fun. We used different strategies of course, from your support- and defense-focused team to Impact's "hit stuff with a sword". And that's fine. Battles were hard sometimes, but we had fun.
But see, when you start exploiting the system, that's when we have a problem. I mean, sure, there's nothing basically wrong with you getting quite powerful. It'll make the rest of us feel a little insignificant, sure, but it's ok. But you have to consider the long-term effects. You said your team is more defense- and support-focused, and, again, that's fine. And of course, I have no problem with synergies, with moves that work well together. But with the amount of moves at your disposal, the sheer volume of different effects that you can mix-and-match, potential for abuse is rather high.

If you did find some super-powerful combo, something like the belly-drum/psych-up/baton-pass/cosmic-power shmick, you will get very, very powerful. Enemies will no longer be able to seriously challenge your team. So then what? AB has two choices: He can either keep playing as if nothing's happened, ignore your newfound power and have our enemies progress normally. You'd effectively have reduced the RP to easy mode, where you barrel through everything with 4x attack, defense and sp. defense, and the rest of us either start munchkining as well, or we simply sit back and let you do all the killing. That's the best-case scenario. Because the other case will lead to a paradigm shift. B

The other case is that AB, reacting to your new ability to kill enemies quickly and easily, will scale up our enemies accordingly. That'd challenge you. The rest of us? We'd be dwarfed by enemies scaled to your strength. The paradigm would shift, from a focus on damage-dealing, to a focus on whatever exploit you've discovered, let's assume a focus on buffing, because anyone who isn't using said exploit, won't be able to keep up with the enemies' progression. They'd simply be under-powered. Sure, damage would still have a signalling function, but the mindset, the basic strategy, wouldn't be "do as much damage as we can", but "buff pokemon's stats as much as we can". If we manage that goal, then damage will come practically all by itself. And, of course, AB could design enemies that aren't extremely strong, but are capable of specifically countering whatever exploit you're using, but what's to stop you from switching to a different strategy? Or, alternately, simply pouring more resources into your current strategy, and ways of countering his counter? The current paradigm, deal damage, prevent damage, is fun. If you're allowed to use exploits, even find some dominant strategy, the basics of the game would change rather drastically.
...
Have you ever played a large-scale competitive game that didn't get patched? A friend of mine played one avidly. I think it was called GUNS, or something of the sort. Anyway, initially, it was an third-person shooter with some melee combat and fairly good graphics. Unfortunately, the studio that released it was in a bit of financial trouble, so the game had a lot of bugs and other errors, and there wasn't a patch for almost a year. By the time it did get patched, the game had changed rather drastically. I don't know all the details, but somehow a glitch in grenade-throwing, plus something you could do with the interface made it easy to deal rather huge amounts of damage at good range. The paradigm had shifted rather drastically, and, while the game was still fun (I guess, it still had quite an audience), it really was unrecognizable, gameplay wise. I like our current gameplay in this RP. Please don't change it.

TL;DR:
If you adopt overpowered strategies, the rest of us will be forced to do so as well. This'll change the way the game is played. I don't want that. So don't adopt overpowered strategies, m'kay?

Impact, I'm going to warn you right now: Discord fucking hates men (she doesn't particularly care for other women, either).
I can always try Kirie. Though I'd prefer to hear your say on my balancing issues.

Impact got all of one scratch on Shizuka. And only because she was momentarily distracted by the sword about to fall on Impact's head.

Pierce got one cut (accidental, but still worth about as much as Impact's scratch), a kick and a shoulder slam.
The only reason Impact didn't hit her with any kicks or other non-weapons-based attacks is that he was busy trying to connect with attacks that'd actually do damage. Besides, two out of your three examples involved Impact distracting her for Pierce to hit her.

I'm not sure if I should be flattered or worried at the fact that people are referring to me as Impact, rather than Gem...

Astral Harmony

04-28-2010, 01:40 AM

Balancing issues? All I see are paragraphs of you versus Menarker. What I've approved, I've approved. What I've allowed in combat, I'll continue to allow in combat. In other words, if you have issues, please phrase them in the form of a question and not a big honkin' paragraph and then maybe my two brain cells can figure out just what you want to bring up with me specifically.

Kirie's interests will go to the person that can defeat her in battle. Don't expect that to happen until you're at least a half-demon. She's got a really big sword and no human will withstand the crashing, colliding, crushing force with which she swings it. She's physically weaker than Rio, but not by much. She'll still take you and break you over her knee, like so.

As for thinking about moves in 1v1, don't forget the Gamecube games. Those were all 2v2, from individual trainers to the arenas. Well, it was 1v1 at the start of X D : Gale of Darkness (forgive those unnecessary spaces, the forum thought I was making an emote), but that was only until you got your second Pokemon. Then it shot straight to 2v2. And, I should say that this is not anywhere near like it is in the video games.

Menarker

04-28-2010, 02:18 AM

Well, I read what you said. There is quite a few things I should mention though I think.

The paradigm has already shifted due to the "realistic" nature of the RP, for a variety of reasons. In the gameboy games, let's say that I managed to get a fully healed Snorlax with Belly Drum. That's a severe power threat obviously due to the nature of how the games rules were. In this RP, where AB limited hit all moves to hitting 2 pokemons at most (and it'll likely hit one of mine), even if I knock out 2 pokemons, there are TEN others that can gang up if the pokebrids in-character think that it must go down at all cost. In addition, pokemons that are summoned can attack on the same turn they summoned, if they get switched around. So instead of having a grace period to react if a pokemon switches out to another that has a total type advantage, this RP is set so that a trainer can feasibly recall a pokemon, summon a new one that is better suited and attack the same turn for super effective damage. Yes, the tactics I used are very powerful, but the risks had been increased from the very start with buffs being a risky investment due to the chance of being ganged up on. At the moment, I lost Togekiss in order to boost Snorlax. Now when Snorlax attacks with Earthquake, he'll knock out 2 pokemons for sure, but also have a huge chance of knocking out one of my team-mates. Both sides to lose two pokemons, and it's still their turn to retaliate on Snorlax potentially knocking it out. Snorlax would have to live another turn and be fast enough to attack (it's speed is a huge drawback allowing it potentially to be ganged up on before it could attack) before the other pokemons in order to get a payoff higher than my loss. Hence why Psych Up was useful to make them question who is the better target to attack as their attacks either divided or one survives long enough to attack with the boost. The fact that it was healed the same turn hardly makes up for the fact that there are more pokemon on the field than are needed to knock him out in one turn.

(I should note that the battle as it is going to be hard even with the bonus I got due to the above factors. I'm hoping/relying on Battle Tide and Overkill by utterly damaging the foes, because their sheer numbers will prevent one single pokemon from remaining for very long.)

The moves don't seem to work as they do, because the very nature of the RP has changed from dueling to massive brawls. A single powerful pokemon in the gameboy with boosted speed could always go first and knock out each pokemon that is sent out before they can act. Not so here, where the other pokemon still have the option to be switched in and whittle/bash for heavy damage. I'm overjoyed to find neat combos and tricks within the systems when I can, but I'm still going to have a tough time because the system was altered to the point where the benefits are only significant if played wisely. (Plus AB can just make up a pokemon to deal with the situation as each pokemon is knocked out if needed be to make it harder on me.)

I would mention about other classes likely to get boosts and still being competitive and all that, but that's an expectation we're already all hoping for and such.

(Oh, and while you might be concerned about Mollesk being abused, I'm not planning on using him except as a last resort atm, due to in-character behaviour. *Renny worried about its mind/health and don't want to send it in battle in that state* I like to think that I do try to balance roleplay with my "gaming")

Geminex

04-28-2010, 05:55 AM

It's not the current example that's bothering me, most. What's bothering me is potential for future abuse. Not just of psych-up, mind you...

But let's just take psych-up for now. Dormond, Lopunny and Togekiss can all learn baton pass. A huge amount of pokemon can learn psych-up via tm (I haven't counted, but I'd guess about 50%). I've checked Mawile's, Lopunny's and Togekiss' movepools, and, provided that they stay alive, you've got a killer combo on your hands here. What I see you doing is, make sure as many pokemon on your side as possible have Psych-up. That's quite an investment, sure, but it's likely to pay off. In battle... play defensively with the rest of your team. Field an annoyer or two, confuse the enemy, put them to sleep, draw their attention. You yourself deploy Mollesk and Togekiss, only Mollesk if it's only one slot. Lopunny and Mawile paradigm shift as soon as the battle starts. Togekiss' and Mollesk's movesets are irrelevant, as long as they contain baton pass and nasty plot (for togekiss) and cosmic power (for mollesk) respectively. You see where I'm going with this. First three turns, while the rest of your team covers you, have Mollesk use Cosmic power, Togekiss use Nasty Plot (it can learn it, I checked), Lopunny use agility (not necessary, but helpful) and Mawile use swords dance. The enemy'll have a few chances to take them down, of course, but if the rest of your team does its job right, and you're willing to use a few full restores, you should survive. The pokebrids will have their defense boosted, thanks to paradigm shift (and not have any weaknesses); your biggest weakness would be togekiss, which, as you've already pointed out, has a lot of defense already. In any case, after the third round, baton pass everthing to Mollesk (which'll then have 4x defense, special defense, speed, attack and special attack). Then have your entire team psych-up. It'll take you 4 rounds of prep, but after that time's passed, you've practically won any battle. And I'm fairly certain I could set up a team that's more than capable of buying you three rounds.

And, thing is, even if the enemy realizes what you're doing, and hits you with whirlwinds and roars galore, it won't help them. Because psych-up is so widely spread, to completely eliminate your advantage, they'd have to sweep your entire team at once. They could use their own psych-ups, of course, but I doubt their team would be set up to do so. What I've outlined above isn't an ultimate killer, but not balanced. Not balanced at all. And after using it once or twice, I'm certain I could refine it some more, make it more efficient.

...

I'm not saying you're going to do this. But I'm saying that it's possible. You could. I could. And considering the amount of different support moves that're avaliable, the many, many ways you can combine different effects, I can't help but feel that there's a lot more potential for OP strategies out there. I've already outlined why I want balance, why I don't want exploits to be predominant (I feel it'd change the game too much, shift its focus to who-knows-where), and I stand by that. Giving Snorlax and Dormond max attack, that'll make your battle a bit easier, but it doesn't annoy me too much, for now. Primarily because, except for Snorlax, we have no other Belly-drummer, so it's a one-time thing. Besides, you're right, you might need the help...

Sigh. All I want, in the short term, is what I've said below, that self-damage shouldn't be item-healable, and that psych-up should be restricted to targeting enemies. In the long term? I don't even know. I'm a bit lost here myself, since AB doesn't seem to mind. But I know that the system we're playing in is exploitable (because, while, like you said, benefits need to be played more wisely, potential to combine different effects is much, much huger, and thus the benefits you can gain are enormous). I don't know where the border between "clever" and "hax" is, but I think when you're potentially buffing your entire team's stats to max, that's when you're entering Hax, population Imbalanced. And I'd prefer it if that didn't happen.

Again, I take these things too seriously, but this game is fun. Probably the most fun I'll have in quite a while. I don't want it to become broken through munchkining. Planning turns and allocating who'll hit whom is much more fun that doing research on movesets, and seeing if we could field three explosion-users along with an army of pokemon that know protect.

And, like I said, there's always the matter of e-peen, and seeing Renny come up with combinations like that really doesn't help Impact's self esteem. I know I am superior, naturally, but Impact totally feels superfluous. Yep. That's the reason.

As for AB's post...
Ok, so maybe there were dedicated 2v2 games, but how widespread were those, how fierce was the competition there?

And how to phrase my issues briefly?
How bout this:

This system. It is flawed.

Some of the moves it contains. They were made for 1v1, but are imbalanced in anything more than 2v2.

Menarker. He exploits this occasionally, I feel.

Me. I dislike this.

My justification for this. It is that, if exploits are permitted, the game will switch from the standard battle/brawl system to a battle system focused entirely on exploiting flaws in the system.

That good?

Edit:
Oh, and one last thing:
Menarker, you said the following:
Divide and STAB cancel each other out
But do they really? Divide halves damage, STAB multiplies it by 1.5. That'll give you 0.75 total
...
Right?

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 07:10 AM

For the love of God, you two. Quit flirtin'.

I agree with Geminex that the system is exploitable. Disgustingly so. I don't agree that self-inflicted damage shouldn't be item-healable (though maybe establish a rule that you should wait one turn before you can use a Full Restore on your Belly Drummed Snorlax from now on).

AB approved it, and that's good enough for me. I realize that this is a guy that seems to spend his days playing Enchanted Arms, watching porn and occasionally taking two hours to write an RP post. But you gotta assume that sometime in-between all that he actually takes the time to think about how certain changes and strategies affect the RP he's running.

...

Right?

And anyway, I think we can trust Menarker, and any other PC, not to go power-crazy with exploits.

Now let's get back to the real issue here: Pierce boning Shizuka.

Drac, have Pierce act as if Impact had given above orders. You can show him deep in tactical thought, mulling over where his skills'd be best put to use, but let me give the orders, m'kay?

Sure, but I get to give out orders the next turn.

I realize that the strategies are almost always yours, but if we don't do it this way I'm gonna throw a hissy fit like you would not believe.

Okay, not really.

Geminex

04-28-2010, 07:40 AM

and any other PC, not to go power-crazy with exploits.

...
I wish there was a smiley capable off conveying a sudden burst of malevolent glee, combined with incredible gratitude that out of all the worlds I could have been born in, I got the one that's collectively really, really gullible.

Yep. Go right ahead. Trust me. I'm not going to design Impact's signature techniques to specifically screw the system over so I can be over-powered, and, if questioned, say that I'm "just proving a point". Nope. Wouldn't dream of it!

As for the discussion... I'd be willing to compromise:
Psych-up is only usable on enemies (the attack's description explicitly says, The user hypnotizes itself into copying any stat change made by the foe. for god's sake! The foe! Not "It' allies"! That'd eliminate my greatest current concern)
Self-damage can be healed via healing items, the turn after it's inflicted.

I'll also concede all the other points were were discussing, regarding Renny's dual-class.

Is this acceptable?

God, by the 5th mission I'll have treaties and agreements with everyone. This is turning into politics, not pokemon. Still awesome, though.

As for this:
Sure, but I get to give out orders the next turn.
I feel myself going "Maybe". How strange. That's not like me at all. Still, we can work something out.

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 07:51 AM

...
I wish there was a smiley capable off conveying a sudden burst of malevolent glee, combined with incredible gratitude that out of all the worlds I could have been born in, I got the one that's collectively really, really gullible.

Yep. Go right ahead. Trust me. I'm not going to design Impact's signature techniques to specifically screw the system over so I can be over-powered, and, if questioned, say that I'm "just proving a point". Nope. Wouldn't dream of it!

Fine, how about this: You can go on ahead and abuse any exploits you like with your signature moves. Then I'll do the same. Then I'll buff my pokemon to obscene levels.

Let's see how that works out.

As for the discussion... I'd be willing to compromise:
Psych-up is only usable on enemies (the attack's description explicitly says, for god's sake! The foe! Not "It' allies"! That'd eliminate my greatest current concern)

I'm pretty sure any move description says that. Doesn't mean you can't still use it on allies.

Is this acceptable?

Nope. Psych Up should still be usable on allies.

God, by the 5th mission I'll have treaties and agreements with everyone. This is turning into politics, not pokemon. Still awesome, though.

What, you didn't know that was going to happen?

I feel myself going "Maybe". How strange. That's not like me at all. Still, we can work something out.

There you go, getting into the spirit of things! Good boy! Maybe one day you'll grow up to be a great politician.

Also, we can consider it fair trade for you giving yourself mind control waaaaaaay early.

Geminex

04-28-2010, 08:12 AM

Nope. Psych Up should still be usable on allies.

Y'see, Drac, you confuse me sometimes. Like right now.
There are two possibilities here...

On the one hand, you could be intentionally antagonizing me. You know that I've just written quite a lot of words, detailing why this should not be the case, and you think it's funny to contradict me.

On the other hand, you're unintentionally antagonizing me. You know that I've just written quite a lot of words, detailing why this should not be the case, but you aren't aware of the consequences of contradicting me.

I don't like the implications of either, Drac. Neither should you.

I mean seriously, I've described its role in combat, the role it should have, and the role that it has at the moment. I've shown that it can be abused so very easily, the ability to buff one team member hugely, and then let every team member benefit from that is so very imbalanced, it isn't even funny. I've outlined the consequences of not limiting its use. The only conceivable reason you can be saying such a stupid, stupid thing is that you want to get kidnapped and have a 16-inch metal spike engraved with the words "From Germany with love" shoved up one of your orifices. You'd get to pick the orifice.

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 08:39 AM

On the one hand, you could be intentionally antagonizing me. You know that I've just written quite a lot of words, detailing why this should not be the case, and you think it's funny to contradict me.

I assure you, this is not the case.

Yet.

I mean seriously, I've described its role in combat, the role it should have, and the role that it has at the moment. I've shown that it can be abused so very easily, the ability to buff one team member hugely, and then let every team member benefit from that is so very imbalanced, it isn't even funny. I've outlined the consequences of not limiting its use.

You've described the role you think it has in combat and the role you think it should have. Even if 2v2 battles aren't as prominent as 1v1 battles in the game, for all you know the guys at Pokemon still took it seriously and decided that Psych Up targetting allies wasn't broken at all.

That's Psych Up. My opinion on Baton Pass is something else entirely.

I think Baton Pass shouldn't work for other people's pokemon. Like, say Dormond is a Legion Mage. He uses Baton Pass switch with one of his pokemon and pass his boost to it. But he can't do the same with Renny's Togekiss.

Alternately, make it so that Pokemon switched with Baton Pass stay switched in/out for the duration of the turn. So, using your example, you could buff Mollesk into a godling, but in the time it takes you to do that you probably could've ended the battle or come pretty close.

The only conceivable reason you can be saying such a stupid, stupid thing is that you want to get kidnapped and have a 16-inch metal spike engraved with the words "From Germany with love" shoved up one of your orifices. You'd get to pick the orifice.

Okay, now I'm intentionally antagonizing you. I pick anus.

Now that I'm antagonizing you, I can get back to this:

On the other hand, you're unintentionally antagonizing me. You know that I've just written quite a lot of words, detailing why this should not be the case, but you aren't aware of the consequences of contradicting me.

I don't like the implications of either, Drac. Neither should you.

Hey, for all you know, maybe I'm into that sort of thing.

Menarker

04-28-2010, 11:23 AM

Firstly, thanks for correcting the math between STAB and Divide. Was tired when I made it.

Have you ever seen one of those Yugi-oh or Magic the Gathering games where sometimes victory came out of targetting your own creature with a spell that had a negative effect but lead to a combo or series of fortunate events? It's rare, but it happens. Techniques are really indiscriminate, as it's very easy for anyone (like Impact) to be a friend one minute and a foe the next. It's all conceptual. Hell, in pokemon battles 2v2, it was still possible to target your own pokemon with moves like Thunderbolt which don't normally seem to have any value when used on your allies (but is rewarding for pokemon like Electrivere and Lanturn, although moves like Discharge would normally be better in that case then, but the point still stands.)

Also, your example about Togekiss with Nasty Plot is really kinda silly. There is no real reason for a pokemon to have both super high Attack and super high Special Attack unless that pokemon was built as a mixed sweeper from the get go, but that's even more investment and risky for something mostly useless because you can only use one attack at a time per pokemon. Either you're using Attack or you're using Special Attack. Either way, you're always wasting the potential of one either turn.
Plus if I wanted to use Nasty Plot, I would use Umbreon who also has it and has Baton Pass and all that.

We already used "healing in the same turn before" by having one of our support NPCs on standby and having them heal once someone got hurt bad before. Hardly see what the difference between that and doing so after a Belly Drum or any other self-inflicted damage.

The one thing I'd really understand and agree with is Baton Passing between users. There is no precedent, and I only really considered it because both Geminex and I asked the question, AB said yes, and then with that possibility opened, my mind went wild.

Also, while the tactic in the "RP world" makes perfect sense to implement, that doesn't mean it makes sense to use without preperations. If I tried to just use it without defence or without Battle Tide or such...
Let's say that Renny's team was the antagonist and it's the turn after Togekiss was knocked out and I was the Arbok pokebrid leader. Suddenly you see that two pokemons have buffed up to huge proportions. In a roleplaying sense, unless there was some other unlying factor, he would order his minions to attack Snorlax and Dormond directly and harshly. Similarly if we as a group ever came across a ruin pokemon. If it ever used an equivulent of Belly Drum, I'm pretty damn certain the group would suggest gang-beating it to a bloody pulp. Buff moves tend to paint a big bullseyes on the ones using it, and given the size of the army we're facing down... yeah.

I dunno if you guys trust me about not exploiting the system overly, but I feel like there are counter-measures available, and that if AB ever felt that the RP was threathened, he'd use it or invent something. Plus, trying to balance a bit with roleplaying (not using Mollesk from the get go for emotional reasons and not having a full team of psuedo-legendary or higher)

Plus, there are a variety of moves/abilities that could cause trouble... I can't remember, but wasn't there an ability to made you ignore changes to stats? AB could use a pokemon like that.
Heck, you forgot about the move HAZE! One use and ALL pokemons stats are reset to 0 stat changes. No penalties, no boosts, removes the stat reductions due to burns and paralysis as well as the effects of Focus Energy, Leech Seed, Light Screen, Mist, Reflect, Confusion, and the cumulative nature of Toxic from both active Pok?mon. In addition, Haze removes any major status ailments... oh god, that Arbok Pokebrid knows it.

You see? The system isn't nearly as broken as it looks, there are methods to dealing with my tactics that exist in game, and does so easily. ^^;

I'm starting to think that AB planned it so I would try the boost thing (since he knew about Mollesk in advance) and then if I didn't notice, Arbok would just do that "No-sell" thing and wipe out everything and crush my morale and waste a whole bunch of my turns. :3

*Calls for a motion* For the sake of making it easier to AB who seems to have problems picking up all our questions, I propose we should choose a color which we'll use whenever we intend AB to read it and answer it, so he can skim down the pages, find the apppropriate questions and answer them. He can read the old fashioned way after if he wants to, but it'll speed the process and make it easier.

Like maybe this one!

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 11:57 AM

load o' crap

See? It's entirely possible that any enemy we ever come across will have a means to keep us from buffing ourselves to hell!

Totally!

I dunno if you guys trust me about not exploiting the system overly, but I feel like there are counter-measures available, and that if AB ever felt that the RP was threathened, he'd use it or invent something. Plus, trying to balance a bit with roleplaying (not using Mollesk from the get go for emotional reasons and not having a full team of psuedo-legendary or higher)

Hey!

...

Blaziken isn't legendary or pseudo-legendary!

Hey AB, make Pierce end up with both Shizuka and Chizuru.

Hey AB, give Pierce a x16 weapon.

Hey AB, boost my pokemon to level 150.

Hey AB, kill Renny.

Menarker

04-28-2010, 12:01 PM

One pokemon in a 6 pokemon team doesn't change the fact that your team is 83% legendary. Not that it's a problem, but just trying to emphasize that I'm not really TRYING to go all out with exploits, but take what I think is best within the specific roleplaying mindset I got going (With one made up pokemon as a bonus and to keep competitive with Enmakki)

And it seems you approve about the entire color thing.

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 12:02 PM

No, I'm saying I'm going to abuse the hell out of it. AB will never be able to look at orange again.

Enmakki is absolutely the worst guy you could ever compete with. He won't just beat you in a horrible and humiliating manner and never let you live it down, he'll crush you completely and utterly and then make you relive it forever.

Menarker

04-28-2010, 12:08 PM

Aww, come on. I was serious. It's a good idea to make it easier as a GM and faster for us to get the answers to all the questions we ask AB but end up get overlooked because he is tired or overlook it.

Anyhow, given that most of my last attempt at the post was not based on the Psych Up thing, I'll start writing on it. Impact's group isn't getting Maria, but I'll think about sending Dormond.

See? It's entirely possible that any enemy we ever come across will have a means to keep us from buffing ourselves to hell!

Totally!

And somehow, I don't know whether you were sincere whether you backed up my point regarding Haze and other counter-measures or if you were being sarcastic. I assumed you were sincere since previously you were making the point that Psych Up was being used in their more unused but legit ways.

AB: If I send someone from one team to another, is there a delay period between how long it takes them to get from one to the other? Would Teleport change anything about that? And lastly, would they keep any buffs they had in either case? (I doubt it)

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 12:29 PM

Aww, come on. I was serious. It's a good idea to make it easier as a GM and faster for us to get the answers to all the questions we ask AB but end up get overlooked because he is tired or overlook it.

I'll try, but I make no promises.

And somehow, I don't know whether you were sincere whether you backed up my point regarding Haze and other counter-measures or if you were being sarcastic. I assumed you were sincere since previously you were making the point that Psych Up was being used in their more unused but legit ways.

That one in particular was more sarcasm than sincerity, but there were both in there.

I should point out, AB mentioned that the enemy Pokebrids couldn't take part in the battle. Though that just may be because they have two pokemon out each. I dunno if the Arbok Pokebrid would or could recall one pokemon and then use Haze.

Also, while the tactic in the "RP world" makes perfect sense to implement, that doesn't mean it makes sense to use without preperations. If I tried to just use it without defence or without Battle Tide or such...
Let's say that Renny's team was the antagonist and it's the turn after Togekiss was knocked out and I was the Arbok pokebrid leader. Suddenly you see that two pokemons have buffed up to huge proportions. In a roleplaying sense, unless there was some other unlying factor, he would order his minions to attack Snorlax and Dormond directly and harshly. Similarly if we as a group ever came across a ruin pokemon. If it ever used an equivulent of Belly Drum, I'm pretty damn certain the group would suggest gang-beating it to a bloody pulp. Buff moves tend to paint a big bullseyes on the ones using it, and given the size of the army we're facing down... yeah.

Maybe for this battle, sure. But Geminex already said that if you set your allies up right you can buff your team to hell while making it impossible or incredibly hard for the enemies to kill you (either by killing them, incapacitating them, or making your pokemon immune to damage, whichever). I haven't come up with how, but I've no doubt it's entirely possible.

Unless the enemies too are set up to counter your strategy.

Say, I wonder what would happen if two Pokemon used Follow Me on each other.

By the way, seriously, you can't put poor, slow, retarded little Mollesk to compete with Enmakki. "Slaughter" doesn't even begin to cover it. The only way Mollesk might survive is that Enmakki might get bored waiting for it to react.

Menarker

04-28-2010, 12:54 PM

Well, keep in mind that in the pokemon games, a normal level 100 shuckles can withstand a STAB Earthquake from the level 100 legendary Groudon with only 1/3 of his health lost. (Look up a youtube video) Compared to other pokemons of the same level, Shuckle has only a base stat of 20 HP . Now apply that to Mollesk who has the same DEF and SDEF as Shuckle to start with, but has almost 100 extra base stat points in hit points. Now consider that Mollesk can practically double both his defences with Cosmic Power. Mollesk is a literal tank. Mind you, with sleep status and sleep attacking moves, Enmakki can still win (and honestly, it's more likely he would win), but it won't be an easy fight by any margin (and it'll be long too).

I imagine dual Follow Me would fail to operate.

What I was saying with that bit that you quoted is that enemies will notice and start taking action once they see what is going on. I won't have the luxury of getting those buffs unmolested. They'll attacking and maintaining pressure and all that. Yes, once I manage to get to that point, it's a steep uphill battle for them, but it's the same for me since any smart trainer will try to foil the plan before it can be put into action (or let me finish setting up while they attack something else, and then use Haze when I try to attack so my multiple turns spent buffing are wasted.)

Which is entirely possible given how a trainer can just switch a pokemon in AND use a move at the same turn. I could be fighting 10 Hitmonlees and trying to pump up my team for 3 or four turns. However, on the turn before I would attack, the trainer sends out Arbok or some other pokemon (Many poison types has Haze) and uses Haze. Before I can react or even attack, it's all gone and I've been battered hard for no reward. Getting too greedy with buffs can be an issue!

AB: Can pokemon trainers aside from Renny, Charlotte and Pierce use the same upgrades they can? Like can Dominic use Divide or can Moon use Focus and that sort of thing? Are the foes capable of doing the same?

Bard The 5th LW

04-28-2010, 02:34 PM

The dcy scrapers of text burn my eyes. I'm going to keep playing the RP my own way: Challenge by choice. Not thinking too hard about it. No overpower exploitation from me.

I wish there was a smiley capable off conveying a sudden burst of malevolent glee, combined with incredible gratitude that out of all the worlds I could have been born in, I got the one that's collectively really, really gullible.

http://paulboylan.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/evil-smiley-face.jpg

Use it wisely my friend. With great smileys come great responsibility.

Geminex

04-28-2010, 07:11 PM

Ok, I'll make this quick:

First, in regards to Menarker's objection to my strategy: I decided to boost attack as well as special attack, since the pokemon that'll later psych themselves up wouldn't necessarily all be physical attackers. They won't need both, but, since I don't know which one they'll need, I've given them both. One good way to refine the strategy would be to re-arrange the teams, so that all the psych-uppers are physical attackers, eliminating the need for togekiss or umbreon. Togekiss has better defense, though, so I'd use it regardless.

Secondly, in regards to haze:
Ok, I overlooked that move. Still, it only hits two enemies. That's good, but not great, considering that not all that many pokemon can learn it (compared to psych-up, anyway). And besides, if AB's going to set up teams to counter that sort of strategy, then why not just disallow it!? Or limit it? The only conceivable reason to use psych-up on your allies is to do what I've described, to get the stats buffs (which are most certainly present) from one pokemon and spread them to your entire team, in lieu of buffing them yourselves!
Look at it this way: If this move didn't exist yet, but AB invented it as a trainer upgrade, saying "Ok, you can give your pokemon the ability to copy any stats changes on the battlefield. This counts as an attack, so you'll need to sacrifice a moveslot and a turn.", would anyone here doubt my inevitable protest would be justified?

Thirdly, in regards to Drac:
I don't know what the people at Nintendo are thinking. But the benefits of psych-up in a 1v1 or a 2v2 are dwarfed by its potential in a 6v6 or a 10v10. That's because you need only one pokemon to buff itself up. Then the rest of your team just needs to sacrifice a turn to buff itself to the same level. Even if we remove baton pass' ability to pass stuff on to teammates, Menarker could still take his mollesk, boost its defense and special defense ridiculously, and then have the rest of the team copy that! I very much doubt that that was the creator's intention.

So, yeah, I think that whoever was responsible for balancing in the pokemon games would be turning over in their graves right about now. (Because they kill everyone who's worked on a pokemon game the day it gets released, right?)

Why do I even have to discuss this? Are any of my points incoherent? Are there any fallacies that I didn't notice? It can be abused, it will be abused, I don't want abuse to occur. Where is your justification? Where are your arguments outside "but it can be countered". Of course it can be countered, but the way to make it unnecessary to counter your abuse is to prevent abuse.

Sigh.

Bard The 5th LW

04-28-2010, 07:17 PM

Sigh.

It pisses me off when people sigh through text. Are there other ways to demonstrate exasperation?

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 08:03 PM

Mind you, with sleep status and sleep attacking moves, Enmakki can still win (and honestly, it's more likely he would win), but it won't be an easy fight by any margin (and it'll be long too).

Four words: Dark Abyss, Bad Dreams. Enmakki's Dark Abyss, which AB approved, has 100% chance to inflict sleep and it also inflicts Nightmare. Y'know, Nightmare the move (yeah, I still have my doubts about it). If I'm reading correctly, Nightmare takes away 1/4 of the target's maximum HP every turn. Then there's Bad Dreams, which takes away 1/8. Mollesk would be losing 3/8 of it's maximum health every turn.

AB: Can pokemon trainers aside from Renny, Charlotte and Pierce use the same upgrades they can? Like can Dominic use Divide or can Moon use Focus and that sort of thing? Are the foes capable of doing the same?

You already know that NPC trainers can't use Trainer Attack. Or at least, NPC Battle Masters can't.

So can we get a list of what upgrades the NPCs can or can't use?

Thirdly, in regards to Drac:
I don't know what the people at Nintendo are thinking. But the benefits of psych-up in a 1v1 or a 2v2 are dwarfed by its potential in a 6v6 or a 10v10.

Well you're the one who brought up 2v2 battles earlier. I was just responding to that, not 6v6 battles.

That's because you need only one pokemon to buff itself up. Then the rest of your team just needs to sacrifice a turn to buff itself to the same level. Even if we remove baton pass' ability to pass stuff on to teammates, Menarker could still take his mollesk, boost its defense and special defense ridiculously, and then have the rest of the team copy that! I very much doubt that that was the creator's intention.

Yeah, I think we should implement both of my suggestions here. Baton Pass only works on one's own pokemon, and Pokemon switched with Baton Pass stay switched for the duration of the turn (I'm not sure if we should make Roar work on Baton Switched pokemon, because it's usable on allies). The time investment required to buff your team to 4x attack, special attack, special defense, defence and speed would be ridiculous. You'd die before you could finish.

It can be abused, it will be abused, I don't want abuse to occur.

Well, gee, I guess I just don't share your cynical view.

Sigh.

Sigh.

Geminex

04-28-2010, 08:25 PM

Bard The 5th LW

04-28-2010, 08:30 PM

Look, here is one simple way to end that exploitation. Its not up to me, but it can be stopped easily in just a few words. Just point it out to AB and try to logically validate your complaints in one easy-to-read paragraps. Preferably over PM. If it tuns out well, here's what you'll get.

AB:K, Menarker, stop exploiting.

That alone should end it all. Or alternatively, you can verbally duke it out with Menarker himself via PM. If it works out, here's what you'll get.

Menarker: K, I'll stop exploiting.

Just stop cluttering with your novel's worth of paragraphs. Pritty pleeze.

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 08:32 PM

How is it cynical? Menarker's using it already, and if AB, true to his word, continues to let him do that, there's literally nothing preventing him from increasing its usage. If he made some sort of guarantee that he'd limit his abuse, I might even be happy with that, but so far all he's done is point out the amount of counters that're available.

But honestly, give me an hour with bulbapedia and I'll eliminate those counters. Hell, I've already thought of a few things in the time I was typing this and some of them don't even need psych-up that much. It's all a matter of stats and movesets, and this system is broken. What I'm saying is that it needs to be balanced a little better, and that that should begin with making it impossible to hugely buff your entire team with little effort.

And if the sigh annoys you, I could totally try hissing. Or writing with a fake accent.

Fair enough.

HEY MENARKER, DON'T ABUSE THAT SHIT OR I'MMA GET YOU.

Seriously.

I don't remember anyone sayin' the system wasn't broken.

Unless you wanna take up the task of balancing every little issue by yourself, we're gonna have to deal with 'em as we go along. Yes, it should start with making it impossible to buff your team to hell. Hello?

I think Baton Pass shouldn't work for other people's pokemon. Like, say Dormond is a Legion Mage. He uses Baton Pass switch with one of his pokemon and pass his boost to it. But he can't do the same with Renny's Togekiss.

Alternately, make it so that Pokemon switched with Baton Pass stay switched in/out for the duration of the turn. So, using your example, you could buff Mollesk into a godling, but in the time it takes you to do that you probably could've ended the battle or come pretty close.

What you've come up with is making Psych Up target only foes. Which neither Menarker and I agree with.

But we did both agree with self-inflicted damage only being item-healable the turn after it's inflicted.

Just stop cluttering with your novel's worth of paragraphs. Pritty pleeze.

Hey, I remember saying this before! Well, not exactly like that, but I said it.

Then I got sucked in. It's like a freaking black hole.

DanteFalcon

04-28-2010, 09:32 PM

And that is why I don't post often in discussion threads. It lets me avoid black holes that are walls of text.

Bard The 5th LW

04-28-2010, 09:55 PM

GAHH! I had a really cool post written out! It had a rant song and everything! Then backspace came along for like no reason and sent me a page back!

I'm so furious you can presume I'm typing in a British accent.

I'll rewrite it tomorrow. G'Night.

Geminex

04-28-2010, 11:14 PM

I think Baton Pass shouldn't work for other people's pokemon. Like, say Dormond is a Legion Mage. He uses Baton Pass switch with one of his pokemon and pass his boost to it. But he can't do the same with Renny's Togekiss.

Alternately, make it so that Pokemon switched with Baton Pass stay switched in/out for the duration of the turn. So, using your example, you could buff Mollesk into a godling, but in the time it takes you to do that you probably could've ended the battle or come pretty close.

Well, thing is, baton pass isn't the crucial flaw. Psych-up is. Because you can buff mollesk into a defensive godling in 3 turns' time, and then give the same bonuses to the rest of your team in just 1 turn. That's what I think is broken. And I'm not saying there aren't certain counters, like whirlwind, or haze. What I'm saying is that those decrease psych-up's over-effectiveness, but don't remove it entirely.
Because, assume you have 6 pokemon. So does the enemy. Your pokemon have all psyched themselves up. 3 of your enemy's pokemon have whirlwind. 1 has haze. They use all of that, it's all very effective.
...
Thing is, you still have 1 pokemon with the buffs. Next turn, all you have to do is have the rest of your team psych-up again, and you'll be back on top. And the one that survived with its buffs intact can 1-hit the hazer. Rinse and repeat. Sure, it's beatable, but it's difficult.

That's why I proposed the limitations I did. Sure, maybe there's a better way to balance it, but I thought, since the only conceivable reason for letting psych-up target allies was to monstrously buff your sides power, the way I proposed was pretty good.

But y'know what? Screw it. You're right.
Not about the move, mind-you, if you continue using it on allies it'll remain broken as hell, but about the discussion. It has dragged on far too long, and is no longer fun. And, trust me, it is not often that I regret starting a discussion.

So, yeah. Screw it. I'll keep an eye out for balancing, and hope that AB takes the stuff I say seriously, but it's his RP. I'll let him look out for it.

...

Though if there's ever a sequel, and if Impact is the main villain, and you reach the final battle with him, and I get to direct Impact's side...
You will all be so fucking screwed.
:3

Dracorion

04-28-2010, 11:28 PM

That's why I proposed the limitations I did. Sure, maybe there's a better way to balance it, but I thought, since the only conceivable reason for letting psych-up target allies was to monstrously buff your sides power, the way I proposed was pretty good.

Let's see... Maybe halve or quarter the boost gotten from Psych Up? I'm thinking that way it's still useful for giving yourself a nice buff, but not obscenely so like copying Snorlax's.

Though if there's ever a sequel, and if Impact is the main villain, and you reach the final battle with him, and I get to direct Impact's side...
You will all be so fucking screwed.
:3

Challenge accepted.

Geminex

04-29-2010, 12:38 AM

I find the above post entirely satisfactory. Halve the psych-up bonus gained from copying team-mates, and I'm happy.

And Drac, don't flatter yourself. Menarker's the challenge here. "Master tactician" indeed. Hell, I'll beat him at strategy and munchkining. You wait.

Dracorion

04-29-2010, 12:46 AM

Menarker's nothing.

I just wanna test myself against your strategy, is that so wrong?

EDIT: Y'know, now that you approve of halving Psych Up I'm thinking we should make it two-thirds instead.

Menarker

04-29-2010, 12:49 AM

Ok, I'll make this quick:

Look at it this way: If this move didn't exist yet, but AB invented it as a trainer upgrade, saying "Ok, you can give your pokemon the ability to copy any stats changes on the battlefield. This counts as an attack, so you'll need to sacrifice a moveslot and a turn.", would anyone here doubt my inevitable protest would be justified?

@ Geminex:

"JAR JAR, YOU'RE A GENIUS!" (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0122.html)

^^

When you mention moveslot, it made me realize that part of the problem is that I was able to use Psych Up without investing into anything at all! No moveslot or anything. My use of Follow Me is ok because I invested in it. Belly Drum belongs to an NPC, but even that's fairly passable as a one time NPC occurance and using up a move slot too. But a reoccuring NPC that has a library of moves to use at will?

I think part of the problem that everyone is forgetting about is that all the "abusable parts" are coming from the pokebrids! The ability to choose ANY move from the pokemon move-list is admitably a VERY powerful feature since trainers wouldn't invest a moveslot if they had a "mook" following them that knows it and can use it effectively. I think we should keep the Psych Up and such as is, but somewhat limit the uses of NPC pokebrids so that we can't just use any single move of theirs. (Matthias is a PC and thus should be exempt from all this. If he damn wants to use Psych Up, he should damn well be able to!)

Therefore, I suggest that there is a number limit of how many moves they can use before they have to recharge. Like 2 moves and then they can't use moves from their pokebrid forms (with the exception of their super moves) for a turn or two, and the uses recharges as they regain "stamina". They could still use healing items, since that was their main purpose in the first place and it doesn't take a toll on the body, but a limit on their moves would prevent overuses of Psych Up, overuses of Helping Hand which was a source of argument earlier too.

Sorry for extending the debate, but I felt Gem brought up a damn good notion. ^^ *Pats on the back*

EDIT: Also, since I sent Dormond to your group and the only NPC pokebrid left is on healing duty, the Psych Up situation is actually pretty much over.

Dracorion

04-29-2010, 01:04 AM

Therefore, I suggest that there is a number limit of how many moves they can use before they have to recharge. Like 2 moves and then they can't use moves from their pokebrid forms for a turn or two, and the uses recharges as they regain "stamina". They could still use healing items, since that was their main purpose in the first place and it doesn't take a toll on the body, but a limit on their moves would prevent overuses of Psych Up, overuses of Helping Hand which was a source of argument earlier too.

Okay, I can't think of any other way to balance Pokebrids, so sure.

But, two turns seems a little excessive. I'd say three or four before they have to recharge.

Menarker

04-29-2010, 01:15 AM

By recharge, I meant that they just aren't using moves in combat, so it's more like they can't be using it 4 to 5 times in a row. (I interpretted your example as only being able to use pokemon moves 5 or 6 times before they run out and battle has to end before they can recover/recharge)

Example:
Turn 1: Able to do anything. Current example being Psych Up (Same as the current set up we're arguing about)

Turn 2: Able to do anything. Example is Attack with any appropriate move for high damage or use Baton Pass or so. They run out of charges.

Turn 3: They can use healing items, a pokebrid super move or do nothing, but cannot use a pokemon move.

Turn 4: They can use healing items, a pokebrid super move or do nothing, but cannot use a pokemon move. Moves are recharged.

Turn 5: Able to do anything they can do.

At least that's how I'm proposing it.

Phew, at least I think this change and realization and the fact that I sent away Dormond might end this debate. ^^

Dracorion

04-29-2010, 01:34 AM

(I interpretted your example as only being able to use pokemon moves 5 or 6 times before they run out and battle has to end before they can recover/recharge)

Nope, what I meant was:

Turn 1: Able to do anything.

Turn 2: Able to do anything.

Turn 3: Able to do anything. They run out of charges.

Turn 4: They can use healing items, a pokebrid super move or do nothing, but cannot use a pokemon move.

Turn 5: They can use healing items, a pokebrid super move or do nothing, but cannot use a pokemon move. Moves are recharged.

Turn 6: Able to do anything.

I'm thinking maybe even make it four turns before they have to recharge.

Anyway, how about a list of all the changes we've proposed to help AB?

Menarker

04-29-2010, 01:39 AM

I'll start looking back a few threads and compiling them. Might take a bit though. I'll edit this post when I'm done. *Or if AB makes a new thread, which it's about time, I'll post it there.*

EDIT: There wasn't too much stuff to ask since most of the stuff was debates. ^^;

AB: Just in case you haven't noticed, any time we type something that we feel you need to answer, we'll have it in this color!

Pokemon Breeder: These trainers hold an incredible bond with their pokemons due to the immense dedication and effort to raise them beyond the basic requirement of a trainer. While pokemon trainers are challenged to learn about the pokemons that exist and how to harness them, the breeder has a higher calling in the vocation to bring out the very best out of one's pokemons. When a breeder is a trainer too, one can be easily assured that their proteges have been groomed to the sheer pinacle of excellence.

(The following are just list of suggestions of benefits for the Pokemon Breeder, if it gets approved.)
A: All pokemons are level 100. (Assuming that pokemons of the other trainers are around level 80 or 85ish fairly soon) Assume that 2 of each of the pokemons stats are at their maximum value as according to Serebii's website, as a result of careful EV training. Assume that nature is beneficial.
B: Custom Items
C: Being able to change movesets once per mission in between combat.
D: Damage dealt to pokemons are increased by a certain percentage due to being a practiced professional in pokemon battles. (not ruin pokemon or pokebrids or anything that isn't a pokemon.)
E: The Leader Pokemons possessing a sort of Testament Drive that's slightly weaker than the legendary pokemon version and usable once per combat.
F: Each one of Renny's pokemon gain an attack that gains power via the happiness rating similar to Return that is one of the element type of whatever type the pokemon is and of the attack type of the user's choice (Can be chosen each time it is used). Such a move is treated as an HM and doesn't take up a move slot. Power around 100 to 110 max.

So can we get a list of what upgrades the NPCs can or can't use?

I suggest that there is a number limit of how many pokemon moves an NPC pokebrid can use before they have to recharge. Like 3-4 moves and then they can't use moves from their pokebrid forms (with the exception of their super moves) for a turn or two, and the uses recharges as they regain "stamina". They could still use healing items, since that was their main purpose in the first place and it doesn't take a toll on the body, but a limit on their moves would prevent overuses of Psych Up and the overuse of Helping Hand which was a source of argument earlier too.

Like this:

Turn 1: Able to do anything.

Turn 2: Able to do anything.

Turn 3: Able to do anything. They run out of charges.

Turn 4: They can use healing items, a pokebrid super move or do nothing, but cannot use a pokemon move.

Turn 5: They can use healing items, a pokebrid super move or do nothing, but cannot use a pokemon move. Moves are recharged.

Turn 6: Able to do anything.