College and the Cost of Reputation

[katiuska]

That Old College Lie (http://www.democracyjournal.org/that_old_college_lie.html).

The basic idea of the article is that American colleges and universities are increasingly unaffordable because the quality of education you get at an institution is unknown, and colleges are encouraged to take and spend as much money as they can on specious reputation-building. The solution, then, is public knowledge about how well students are learning at each school, because schools would be forced to focus more on tangible output. I'm not sure if I agree that it would fix everything, but the argument makes intuitive sense to the extent that something genuinely seems to be wrong here. It's no secret that college textbooks are a huge racket, and I've suspected this might apply just as well to the college themselves, because you've got a population of people who have no choice but to pay whatever you charge them if they want to progress their careers. I was lucky enough to have the benefit of scholarships and middle class parents, but a lot of people don't, and it still makes me question whether post-secondary education is worth what it costs, given the disturbingly large number of people who drop out or end up in jobs that have jack all to do with their degree.

[Toast]

definitely agree that college costs are out of control. Especially since there are no guarantees that you'll get a job in your field, or a job at all the way things are going.

this article here (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124181970915002009.html) talks about not getting jobs after graduation and the trends that are happening.

[Osterbaum]

Free education. Yup, it's pretty great.

[katiuska]

Silly socialists. Don't you know it's a basic human right to be screwed over by every institution whose goals have nothing to do with common good?

Capitalism!

[Hanuman]

Mmm, Studies show that col. is a waste of money on average which doesn't include what you learn there or how it changes you as a person, it just a calculation of the earning potential increases on average of all classes.

Personally, I'm in favor of higher education and am trying to get into the Justice Institute (civil servant training) for fire rescue, the course outline can't really be learned any other way... it's not as much reputation as much as it is education so I think there's something to be said, huh.

[Magic_Marker]

What we need is reparation of our trade school system combined with properly funded Community College that transfers credits over the the public universities in State.

After, or during that, we can perform tests to see which colleges are any good. From there we go after the textbook industry and just shoot the publishers in the head, because, eh, why not?

[Seil]

I'm going to bring this (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=37430) up again. And this. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=37275)

Since I'm upgrading, and my textbooks transfer from one semester to the other or are incredibly cheap compared to everything else, ($20) I really can't complain until November. I'm hoping to get into the PN course, and it'll take $7500 to get there.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

All I have to say is who the shit buys textbooks? For the one time they are needed you can just get them out of the library.
You save yourself a lot of money by not getting them.

But on the original article I totally agree. But universities as a whole are becoming more and more business and profit orientated and about short term goals. At my university we have more admin staff than teaching/research staff which is absolutely absurd.

[Nique]

So does College for most people, if they work outside of whatever field they went to school for, become just this weird social game that we all pretend is relevant to our lives? You went to college for 4 years so it looks better on your resume than doing something that might be more enriching/ beneficial to your actual field of work?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It's pretty important assuming your life is not simply where you work.

[stefan]

All I have to say is who the shit buys textbooks? For the one time they are needed you can just get them out of the library.

speak for yourself, I'm pretty sure my college library has an actual rule preventing stocking current textbooks just to force students into buying them.

Mind you, I just buy mine used for obscenely cheap prices, but still.

[Nique]

It's pretty important assuming your life is not simply where you work.

You mean College as a social expierience, or as an academic one?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

speak for yourself, I'm pretty sure my college library has an actual rule preventing stocking current textbooks just to force students into buying them.

Mind you, I just buy mine used for obscenely cheap prices, but still.

That's pretty ridiculous. Our library had mountains of set texts and even if that ran out you could get them into short loan where ou get them out for 2 hours at a time so they always available. I assumed everywhere was fairly similiar.
Depends on the courses too I guess, there was reall yno need for textbooks in m courses.

You mean College as a social expierience, or as an academic one?
Bit of both- as a general develop into a better, more wordly person sort of thing.
The most important thing I found about college was constantly being met with differing ideas and people that I would never meet anywhere else.

[Nique]

Those are very intangible things though and experiences you could likely have without paying extraordinary amounts of money for what could end up having virtually no practical application in your life.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

What do you mean by practical application?
Cause if you mean getting a job and making money, no college isn't worth it. That's fairly well documented.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I decided a long time ago that I'm not going to college. Since my parents are military I can get into any state school in CA or WA for free but I just don't care. All the stuff in this thread is just giving me more reason not to.

[BloodyMage]

What do you mean by practical application?
Cause if you mean getting a job and making money, no college isn't worth it. That's fairly well documented.

Wouldn't it depend on the subject in question? My sister is a pharmacist. She studied pharmacology at university for four years, went straight from university to a job in a pharmacy and makes more money than her salesman husband who never went to uni. Not saying, he'd make more money if he had, just that the practical application of a job in science such as Pharmacy is pretty high.

I, on the other hand, am doing English, which has next to no practical application unless I go on and do a teaching post-grad course.

[Hanuman]

It's pretty important assuming your life is not simply where you work.
It's pretty important if you suck at computers, same with libraries.
If the only way you seek mental advancement is to be babysat through it with a highly structured traintrack and a tutor then I'd suggest college. Or mushrooms.

Gotta remember fellas, these social prejudices were established pre-age-o'-information.

[Azisien]

I bought textbooks in 1st year because I was a sucker and thought you needed textbooks to do well in university.

Then I went 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th, AND 6th years and I only bought ONE textbook. I saved about $3000 all told.

You don't need textbooks to do well, you need to pay attention in class and give a shit. ...And occasionally torrent some textbooks.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Wouldn't it depend on the subject in question? My sister is a pharmacist. She studied pharmacology at university for four years, went straight from university to a job in a pharmacy and makes more money than her salesman husband who never went to uni. Not saying, he'd make more money if he had, just that the practical application of a job in science such as Pharmacy is pretty high.


I'm talking in general, on average.
Also while we are talking about science, I could earn more with my bachelors degree than I can with my pHD. Work that one out.

[katiuska]

Yeah, most of us don't pursue Phds for the money.

Bitches: also not the reason.

I feel like I'm participating in a huge sham by allowing my parents to believe that my degrees will reap tangible benefits. It's sad to me that they still genuinely think this.

speak for yourself, I'm pretty sure my college library has an actual rule preventing stocking current textbooks just to force students into buying them.

That's how it always was where I've been and yeah, it's pretty bullshit. Every so often you'll get the one professor who bases half of his tests on the textbook, but generally it doesn't matter nearly that much.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Bitches: also not the reason.

You are clearly in the wrong department.