Infraction Bullshit

[Kim]

Reason: Extremely blatant spampost.

Do you guys remember when Meister said he wasn't going to mod anymore? I do. Awwww nostalgia...

I mean yeah we've been massively letting things like that slide lately but that's really something you rely on at your own peril, so to speak.

No, that's your responsibility. You're the mod. You're supposed to establish what will and will not be tolerated, not infract members for doing something they have no reason to think they'll be punished for doing. Regardless of what the rules say, if you fail to enforce them, you can't reasonably expect anyone to know that it's suddenly against the rules now. Don't blame us because you can't mod consistently. If you're going to keep enforcing the rule regularly from this point on, then fine. Okay. But if you think Surprise Infractions is the best way to keep people in line then you are out of your fucking mind.

I can't even remember the last time you guys got on someone's case for a thread going off-topic, and when you guys did, you'd usually do it along the lines of a red text warning saying "Hey get back on topic." "NPF: No Attention Span Whatsoever" is not a warning. It's just Meister being snarky and condescending.

[Fenris]

Do you guys remember when Meister said he wasn't going to mod anymore? I do. Awwww nostalgia...
Hey remember when it was explicitly stated that he was going to continue modding? I do. Awwww nostalgia...

No, that's your responsibility. You're the mod. You're supposed to establish what will and will not be tolerated,
We do establish that. In the rules.

not infract members for doing something they have no reason to think they'll be punished for doing.
Wrong. It is our interpretation of the rules that matters, not yours.

Regardless of what the rules say, if you fail to enforce them, you can't reasonably expect anyone to know that it's suddenly against the rules now.
The rules do not change without an announcement, regardless of enforcement. What is against the rules is consistent. When the list of things against the rules changes, the public is informed.

Don't blame us because you can't mod consistently.
Don't assume that the rules change when they don't?

If you're going to keep enforcing the rule regularly from this point on, then fine. Okay.
That should go without saying. It is our fault that we haven't been completely consistent, but this is like saying to your dad "Well you haven't told me recently that it's not okay to swipe cookies from the cookie jar and I've done it tons of times without you saying anything so why am I getting in trouble now?"

But if you think Surprise Infractions is the best way to keep people in line then you are out of your fucking mind.
It shouldn't come as a surprise.

I can't even remember the last time you guys got on someone's case for a thread going off-topic, and when you guys did, you'd usually do it along the lines of a red text warning saying "Hey get back on topic." "NPF: No Attention Span Whatsoever" is not a warning.
Meister doesn't use a mod color. And if it's not explicit enough of a warning, it is definitely implicit enough of a hint.

It's just Meister being snarky and condescending.
See: Fifthfiend's entire posting history

[Kim]

Meister doesn't use a mod color. And if it's not explicit enough of a warning, it is definitely implicit enough of a hint.

Fuck no it's not. It is no different from his normal, non-modding douchery, except he's just being a snide jerkass to the forums as a whole rather than Ransoomar or whateverthefuck. That's not goddamn modding. This is kind of the reason people have told him multiple times to get a fucking mod color.

See: Fifthfiend's entire posting historWell, if Fifth got fired for that, I expect you and Shiney will talk about what a jerk Meister is and then demote him when he isn't looking?

Hey remember when it was explicitly stated that he was going to continue modding? I do. Awwww nostalgia...

No. No, I don't. In fact, I'm kinda curious as to why he went back.

[Nightshine]

QQ more like you did with your 3 page essay about Duane and BrandO, faggot.

[Fenris]

Fuck no it's not. It is no different from his normal, non-modding douchery, except he's just being a snide jerkass to the forums as a whole rather than Ransoomar or whateverthefuck. That's not goddamn modding. This is kind of the reason people have told him multiple times to get a fucking mod color.
Hey while you're talking about that part of my post why don't you take a look at the rest of it too.


Mod colors are not necessary. I only use one to make it blatantly and bluntly clear that the message is sent. Furthermore, you all should fucking know better than to blatantly spam like that. This isn't an issue of you not breaking the rules and getting called out on it, this is an issue of you thinking that you can break the rules and not get called out on it, which is not the case. Fifthfiend is acting, well, like a total douche lately and you all are following his lead because he's OMGFIFTHFIEND.


QQ more like you did with your 3 page essay about Duane and BrandO, faggot.

Get the fuck out.

[DFM]

QQ more like you did with your 3 page essay about Duane and BrandO, faggot.

Oh my :ohdear:

[Kim]

QQ more like you did with your 3 page essay about Duane and BrandO, faggot.

Man, I'm glad Meister kept Nightshine around. He's certainly a fantastic member of the forums.

This isn't an issue of you not breaking the rules and getting called out on it, this is an issue of you thinking that you can break the rules and not get called out on it, which is not the case.

This is an issue of thinking "Hey, the mods don't enforce a rule. It probably isn't a big deal. If it was a big deal, they'd fucking enforce it." And Fifthfiend has nothing to do with it on my end. If someone else had made the same post Fifthfiend had, I would have made the exact same post, and would have been just as ticked at getting infracted for a rule that wasn't treated like a rule by even the mods before now.

[Osterbaum]

Fifthfiend is acting, well, like a total douche lately and you all are following his lead because he's OMGFIFTHFIEND.
I take some offense to this. If I decide to act like a douche, I do it on my own and for my own reasons.

[Meister]

Get with the times, I've been 100% modding for months, I'll continue to do it until either I or Brian/the other mods wouldn't like me to anymore, and frankly there's nothing you or Fifth or whoever else can do about it no matter how many times you point out the discrepancy.

Yes, I did feel bad about going back to it after explicitly saying I wouldn't, but no I don't anymore, see above.

re: your points, I think it's actually very reasonable to expect you can be warned for something that's explicitly stated to be something people get warned for. There's really not much more I can say about this incredibly obvious fact. The rules thread says we warn people for doing a thing. Then people do a thing and get warned, and that's met with surprise?

It does seem we need to start handing out infractions more regularly so everyone realizes a 1-point infraction is basically nothing more than saying "no seriously, don't do that" and not the 15-to-life sentence you'd think it was from all the bitching every time we give one out.

e: I do actually use a mod colour these days except for when it's really incredibly obvious I'm moderating such as when I close threads and quote rules at people.

also, hoshit, quick moving thread.

[Fifthfiend]

Yeah no I totally shouldn't have been surprised at getting warned for making a silly joke of a too-serious thread like I've been doing for literally the entire time I've been a member of this forum including pre-admin / pre-mod and nobody has given a shit about ever.

PS Fenris remember when Brian accused you of being a crowd-following douche and I went to bat for you on it and told him that was messed up? Man, real glad I did that, keep the personal insults and incredibly wrong comparisons comin'.

[Fenris]

No. No, I don't. In fact, I'm kinda curious as to why he went back.

Well I have to go run because my brother's here and we're going to go catch Iron Man 2 so I don't have time to go find the post but I have a post somewhere explaining that we asked him to.

PS Fenris remember when Brian accused you of being a crowd-following douche and I went to bat for you on it and told him that was messed up? Man, real glad I did that, keep the personal insults and incredibly wrong comparisons comin'.
No, no I don't, actually, but I'll take your word for it.

I'd like to talk to you about this later but as I said gotta go now.

[Kim]

It does seem we need to start handing out infractions more regularly so everyone realizes a 1-point infraction is basically nothing more than saying "no seriously, don't do that" and not the 15-to-life sentence you'd think it was from all the bitching every time we give one out.

So far as I can remember, the "no seriously, don't do that" thing was always just a mod posting in mod color and saying "no seriously, don't do that", and infractions were for more serious offenses. In fact, I think there was even something in the rules more or less stating that. If 1-point infractions are the new version of mod text, okay, but it's never been that way before so far as I can remember, so getting an infraction where before I would have gotten a red text "don't do that" makes it seem like a bigger deal than it apparently is, which in turn leads me to going "Hey, what the fuck. It's just a response to an off-topic post, and the mods have never had a real problem with that before, why the fuck am I being infracted."

[Loyal]

Well I have to go run because my brother's here and we're going to go catch Iron Man 2 so I don't have time to go find the post but I have a post somewhere explaining that we asked him to.Here. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1032767#post1032767)

To be fair to both sides, the mods in general have been almost worryingly lax lately. I'm not sure if I'm actually making a point with this, but plenty of things have been done that probably should have (but weren't) curtailed and I can see where people might get the wrong impression from that.

[Krylo]

Ok, let's see if we can get both sides spelled out here sans vitriol.

Noncon/Fifth: This is a thing users have been doing without being infracted/warned/whatever since you guys increased post limit to 120 posts. It is kind of surprising to suddenly be infracted/warned/whatever for it, at least without being unofficially told to quit first.

Meister/Mods: This is a thing that is against the rules, and usually threads don't go (completely) off topic until 80 posts in, as opposed to 33, and usually as kind of a progression instead of all of a sudden with one post. It's a different situation than the ones in which we don't enforce anything.

Also: on infractions, as FAR AS I REMEMBER, it has been awhile and I never really got fully behind the system before quitting (and the language in the rules thread is a little unclear), but:

1 point: "Hey, watch it."

2 (to 4, I guess looking at the rules) points: "Keep this up and you WILL be banned"

5+ points: "One more fuck up is all it takes."

So they're like warnings of increasing severity, but one point infracts aren't really a big deal.


I don't really want to get super involved in this, however, because this is a situation in which I can see both sides and think they both have valid arguments. I don't really want to choose one here.

I just don't think either side is particularly handling their argument in a way likely to defuse the situation perfectly SO.

[Kim]

Here. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1032767#post1032767)

I'm not really sure a post like that in a thread that it is completely understandable that I missed counts as "explicitly stated", but okay whatevs.

@Krylo: Yeah, I probably should have handled this far more maturely than I did. Apologies for the unnecessary douchebaggery to Fenris and Meister.

No, no I don't, actually, but I'll take your word for it.

IIRC, it was in the Fifth got stealth fired thread.

[Meister]

Rule of thumb for infraction points: 1 point is usually something minor (double posting), 2-4 means you did something more severe (consistent spam, flaming), 5 and more means you just figuratively dropped your pants in the middle of the mall, crapped in your hands and threw it at passersby.
Pretty much this.

I'm gonna go ahead and say the worst part of this whole spamposting thing was, like krylo said, not necessarily that someone started to talk about candy in the VERY SERIOUS MUST STAY ON TOPIC VG Cats thread but that so many people joined in so quickly and that the change of direction was so sudden and violent. I mean yeah Fifth does make silly jokes all the time but all or most of those I've seen lately were somewhat related to the topic or in threads that were silly joke topics from the start, and most of the time there aren't 10 or 12 guys all of a sudden posting silly links and one-liners in an otherwise normal thread.

Look I completely see where you guys are coming from re: suddenly, infraction, but at the end of the day, y'know, that one point is going to be gone in a month and in a fraction of that time no one's gonna even care that you* got it because you're otherwise an all-around great guy. (Except of course if you go to great lengths to show everyone you aren't an all-around great guy like Nightshine McDickhead up there. Hoo boy, hindsight.)

*the general you. Not NonCon specifically.

[shiney]

I'll put an official seal on it then, he expressed concern to the mod forum about his so-called status as a mod, we told him to quit worrying about it and just fucking mod because it's not like anyone has their panties in a twist about whether or not he's modding anyways and so he was like alright, I'll keep modding then. He was always a mod, and even if he stated he wasn't going to actively mod the forums doesn't mean suddenly that he can't. His name was bolded and italicized, ergo he had and has the authority to mod, ergo he is a mod and acted within his capacity.

As for this situation, it wasn't handled with as much finesse as it could have been, but then from what I see it was less that it went off-topic and more that it seems to have been wrenched off-topic, and a lack of enforcement shouldn't imply mod/admin approval of something. It more means that everyone's kinda lucky nothing happened until this point, and we maybe sorta dropped the ball, but now folks are aware again that hey super spam off-topic posts are y'know, against the rules. As listed. Nobody is in any lasting trouble because who cares about a 1 point infraction, but it's a good way to notate that hey...probably shouldn't be doing that.

Nightshine...well I'll take responsibility for that one. He got himself banned for being 'tarded in the end, but at least it was a deserved ban for actually doing something horribly wrong, and not an undeserved ban for someone jumping the gun.

[Kim]

Look I completely see where you guys are coming from re: suddenly, infraction, but at the end of the day, y'know, that one point is going to be gone in a month and in a fraction of that time no one's gonna even care that you got it because you're otherwise an all-around great guy.

Yeah, but then you personally have temp-banned at least one member who probably only deserved an infraction, and you're reasoning for picking the temp-ban over the infraction was because of other infractions. In that instance, the members didn't know what the other infractions were for. Even after the point is gone, the infraction still shows up, so combined with that previous bit, and I think it's completely reasonable that people think of infractions, even one point ones, as being more serious than they apparently are.

[Meister]

They do factor in even in the long run, yeah, but we always also look at the infracted posts and infraction reasons before we temp- or perm-ban anyone. For example, when someone does something minorly rulebreaking and has something like a 1-point infraction for something entirely else from 2007 on their record, they might get hit with another 1-pointer, as opposed to someone who has maybe a 1-point infraction from two weeks ago for the same thing, who might get 2 or 3 points. And they both don't compare to a guy who has gotten 1-3 point infractions at least once every 3 months for basically the same thing and who's thusly really close to getting kicked out (again, that would be Nightshine).

So I guess it would be a good idea to make it clearer that the infraction business is far from being just a numbers thing?

e: probably is also a good idea to mention that I didn't even look at anyone's infraction record in this situation because one silly spam post isn't gonna be the straw that breaks anyone's back. Nor is it gonna follow anyone around and fuck them over two years from now unless one of you gets nailed repeatedly for silly spam posts.

[Kim]

See, that's the reason infractions seem like a bigger deal than you'd like us to believe. They factor in in the long run, and stay with us, sort of a permanent record sort of deal. Mod text accomplishes the same thing as a one point infraction, but because it doesn't follow you, it sounds like a substantially smaller deal, even if there isn't a difference. Going from not even mod text to one point infraction gave me the impression that this was being made into a much bigger deal than it should have been, which in turn basically made me escalate the situation.

So yeah, it might save you some trouble to clarify things like that up. Of course, after this, I'm not sure how necessary it is now that things are cleared up.

[shiney]

Lessons for the future, perhaps.

[Fifthfiend]

Fifth you might still be steamed about how we treated you and there's definitely nothing that can ever really be done to make up for it but quit shitting up the forums to protest the result of our actions. The little sarcastic rage against the machine 'tude is seriously getting old and tired (I mean really dude, you made an entire thread in the 'forum related stuff' section to publicly bitch Meister out over something he said months ago which you didn't support) and while it would be a lie to say I'm at my wit's end, it would also be a lie to say I haven't considered banning the shit out of you once and for all to not have to put up with it anymore.

I haven't partly because people here like you, and partly because you used to honest to god just be a fun guy to hang around. Before the whole sarcastic over-the-top stuff. I personally like (and liked) having you around here to a point, that point being the particular line between fun-fifth and jackass-fifth, that line which is becoming increasingly blurred day to day.

Yes, we fucked you over, and we took it in the shorts, but just...let it go, dude. I'm sorry, okay? Publicly and honestly. Now just, come on man.

"You made an entire thread in the 'forum related stuff' section to publicly bitch Meister out over something he said months ago." Jesus there is no level on which you can be bothered to know what you're talking about before you say something about it.

I get that there's no point in saying it because you don't care how many times people tell you you're acting like an asshole, because it's Your Decision to act like an asshole and you're sticking to your Being An Asshole decision no matter what, but god damn you're acting like an asshole.

Literally no point to responding to anything else you've said because you clearly don't give a shit how far removed from reality any of it is. PS thanks for threatening to ban me for your own terrible decisions in like the same breath as your 'apology', otherwise that might not have looked completely hollow. Please continue to imagine that the difference between 'fun-fifth' and 'jackass-fifth' is something other than your own decision to be a douche.

The little sarcastic rage against the machine 'tude

If you're going to steal lines from Mashie you should probably make sure to mention Going Nuklear twelve or thirteen times.

Nightshine...well I'll take responsibility for that one. He got himself banned for being 'tarded in the end, but at least it was a deserved ban for actually doing something horribly wrong, and not an undeserved ban for someone jumping the gun.

Hahaha, goddamn.

The inside of your head must be amazing, like a spinning whirligig of rainbow-colored lights.

[Fifthfiend]

PS now please feel free to talk about what a mean-ass angry sarcastic insulting dude I am while ignoring the multiple personal insults toward me right here in this thread, I know ya'll roll classy like that.

EDIT Guess I'll go back to drawing shitty pictures for people and posting about Colgate toothpaste until Shiney gets around to banning me for being such an all jackass all the time no-fun dude.

EDIT Or for doubleposting, I'm sure in two or three minutes now you'll decide ya'll real serious about dat doubleposting.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Jesus fucking Christ, I know I'm new here, but I'm pretty sure I speak for a lot of people when I say all of the pointless bitching and drama is really fucking annoying, and has been for a long time.

Everyone getting all bitchy and snarky and all of this other shit that's going on is starting to detract from what is otherwise a good community.

So will you all please calm the fuck down?

[Seil]

Isn't another part of the rules to take things to PMs? It seems it'd be much healthier if everyone wasn't joining in/reading a conversation that should really only be atwixt the people involved.

In the instance of the infractions most of us received for the previous thread, I agree that was pretty spam-tacular, so I accept the infraction 'cause I know I've earned it. I do resent the comment of following Fifthfiend, because while he is someone I like and admire, he's not the boss of me. I'm a non-conformist, man.

That being said - Fifth, I really do like you, but you need to take this to PMs or MSN or whatever. Just sort this out twixt you 'n everybody. 'Cause you're a pretty cool guy even though you called me out that one time and I'd hate to see you banned.

[shiney]

Look Meister I get how excited you must be to have come up with an incredibly trivial tag-related issue to sperg out at people about and that literally nothing will stop you from doing so, but please try to at least not make shit up about what "we" decided months ago to justify your terrible decisions, KTHANX.
What do you call that, you pedantic little shit? Totally being generous and helpful? Being progressive or something? don't care if you're trying to set the stage to make me look like the bad guy here, I've had enough of your fucking childishness all the time. You never accept ANY responsibility for ANY of your actions except maybe in such flagrant, blatantly over the top "holy shit did he really just say that" situations that you'd look like even MORE of a colossal douchebag if you refused to. This shit isn't a one-way street you know? We're hardly tyrannical overlords who run around with our heads up our asses all day long, you know goddamn well what a little prick you've been and you seem to love every second of it, tossing snide little asshole remarks when you reference the mods. You're generally cool tot he regular users, and maybe that gives them the impression that you're not at all a bad guy, and certainly in volume of your posts you're not a fucker all the time, but you're rude and caustic and abusive toward all the mods pretty damn consistently and the chip on your shoulder is more like a fucking city block by now.

Push me into a corner and try and make me look like a fucker all you want, I'm more than happy to take on that role now, because I've finally reached the end of my patience with you.

PS now please feel free to talk about what a mean-ass angry sarcastic insulting dude I am while ignoring the multiple personal insults toward me right here in this thread, I know ya'll roll classy like that.
Stay classy after throwing mountains and mountains of public insults toward me, Meister, Fenris, Brian, Mashirosen, RaiRai, with very little actual punishment let alone admonishment fuck the only person you seemed to not insult was Crodevillian, and maybe only then because he never disagreed with you. Yeah I see now how I'm a horrible person for daring to scold the Great and Mighty Fifthfiend, he who can do no wrong. Yeah, pretty much wasted my time trying to actually talk to you.

Yeah done with this now.

[Seil]

One of the things I dun like about being banned is that there's usually a little blurb - really, a word or two - about why so and so was banned. They're not able to read the mod comment on their offending post, which would offer much more of an insight.

So Shiney, Fifth's not actually going to be able to read your reasoning, I don't think. He'll most likely see the "gtfo" on the Banned screen.

Just sayin'.

[shiney]

I think he can put two and two together.

[Archbio]

QQ more like you did with your 3 page essay about Duane and BrandO, faggot.
Get the fuck out.

I'll be over there, enjoying a slice of the five layer irony cake that is this thread.

[shiney]

Personally I'd rather be wrong about a person, and ultimately ban them legitimately, then be right but have banned them before they did something deserving.

That said, the irony really is strong here.

[POS Industries]

I'll be over there, enjoying a slice of the five layer irony cake that is this thread.
It's not really ironic as I don't recall Fenris ever having been in the "Let's give Nightsie like a bajillion chances to not be a fuckup" crowd.

And honestly I <3 Fifth and all but the whole Nightshine getting banned thing really puts this whole ordeal as a net gain in my book. Thanks, Fenny!

Personally I'd rather be wrong about a person, and ultimately ban them legitimately, then be right but have banned them before they did something deserving.
See I kinda thought shitting up every thread he posted in and pissing everyone off was a legitimate reason to ban someone, if for no other reason than being the identification and extermination of an obvious troll before he gets a few months to continue being an obvious troll who shits up every thread he posts in and pisses everyone off.

[Archbio]

True, better late than never.

Still late, though! I mean, it's not like the original Nightshine incident really was about the modders being too charitable. Someone got a temporary ban over it, and I got this neat infraction. Vaguely ironic!

[meo]

People exhibiting excessive amounts of care about things on the internet.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/466/criketspiderhole.gif

[POS Industries]

People exhibiting excessive amounts of care about things on the internet.
Yeah, it's like we're all real people with thoughts, opinions, and feelings that have had years to get to know each other in this whole big community deal.

I mean, how fucking stupid is that, amirite?

[Meister]

Yeah, dude seriously turned out to be the single worst person in the world to spark BIG MOD DRAMA over and all said, we really should have banned him two or three infractions ago (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1011469#post1011469).

But guys, on the one hand there's the point that we should give people more of an advance warning before we even infract them, and on the other hand there's the point that we should have banned Nightshine more or less immediately after he turned up; I know they're different situations and I'm not trying to say or convince anyone they're the same, but it still kinda sends mixed signals.

[Krylo]

Welp, I could get involved and point out the Nightshine thing was less about him not getting banned right away and more about other people getting banned right away while he didn't get in trouble at all, OR

OR

I could just point out that it's over and done with and in the past and we should all probably just walk away from it. He's banned now, :(. Doesn't matter, anymore.

[POS Industries]

Well, I guess it's one of those things where in a community that tends to act silly in threads one of the admins bans nine people for acting silly in a thread it can set off a big to-do. Considering that there really wasn't so much more to discuss about VGCats (and really it should have probably been in the Books and Comics thread anyway and been given a title that suggested it was about something but that's Bellsy for ya and we luvs him for it), if it had been me I'd have just said "Welp that's the end of that chapter" and closed the thread. But I don't have a vagina so what do I know about modlerating? Eh? Eh?

Then I guess whoever felt like continuing the silly discussion about Wonka could have made a silly Wonka thread and there wouldn't have been this whole shitstorm. But that's just my 2 cents.

[Krylo]

Well, I guess it's one of those things where in a community that tends to act silly in threads one of the admins bans nine people for acting silly in a thread it can set off a big to-do. Considering that there really wasn't so much more to discuss about VGCats (and really it should have probably been in the Books and Comics thread anyway and been given a title that suggested it was about something but that's Bellsy for ya and we luvs him for it), if it had been me I'd have just said "Welp that's the end of that chapter" and closed the thread. But I don't have a vagina so what do I know about modlerating? Eh? Eh?

Then I guess whoever felt like continuing the silly discussion about Wonka could have made a silly Wonka thread and there wouldn't have been this whole shitstorm. But that's just my 2 cents.

Shhhhhhhhhhh. It'll be ok.

[Meister]

I'll have you know I'm very pleased with my vagina.

e: pleasing, at times

[POS Industries]

Shhhhhhhhhhh. It'll be ok.
Look all's I'm saying is that I need to start putting on some Rush Limbaugh at full blast because this affirmative action bullshit is bullshit!

GENDER DISCRIMINATION ALL UP IN THIS BITCH I TELL YOU WHAT

[shiney]

Also in re: Meister's link to Nightshine's threadshitting, do we have a shifty face anymore?

[Krylo]

I'll have you know I'm very pleased with my vagina.

e: pleasing, at times

Welp, there goes my lunch.

[Mesden]

Yeah, dude seriously turned out to be the single worst person in the world to spark BIG MOD DRAMA over and all said, we really should have banned him two or three infractions ago (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1011469#post1011469).

But guys, on the one hand there's the point that we should give people more of an advance warning before we even infract them, and on the other hand there's the point that we should have banned Nightshine more or less immediately after he turned up; I know they're different situations and I'm not trying to say or convince anyone they're the same, but it still kinda sends mixed signals.

It's not mixed signals to ban someone for being a misogynist twit and then not infract 10 people for making an offtopic tangent in an otherwise non serious, off-topicable thread.

The reason it's not is because when someone's earliest posts are complete garbage then they forfeit their right to be heard around here. When 10 members of the community at large, who have proven themselves to be otherwise stellar posters, do something silly and kind-of-against the rules but not a big deal, then it should be obvious to where you put the leeway.

It comes down to discretion, basically, and no one agrees with your discretion lately. I don't particularly care because you never got onto me for my spamming and rulebreaking for the sake of humor (hell I get rep), but I'll probably get all postal when it does happen.

Like him or not, Fifth made an impression on this forum where general chicanery, humor, and overall enjoying yourself tends to come before the hardest enforcement of the rules. It's just an attitude that, for the past 3 years or so, has made the forum more lively, fun, and approachable. If you want to bring it back to rules precede victimless silliness then you've got a task ahead.

[Seil]

The reason it's not is because when someone's earliest posts are complete garbage then they forfeit their right to be heard around here.

I... uh... er... uh... Is anybody listening to me?

[Mesden]

Seil I don't think you were ever a misogynistic piece of shit. You were just a bad/spammy/heylookwebcomics poster. Big difference -- one can generally be fixed on the internet.

[Wigmund]

I do have to say that I'm disappointed in that my infraction is called "Extremely Blantant Spampost".
http://www.nuklearforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7253
I kinda figure it should be something like "Doing Something Because All the Cool Kids Were Doing It".

[Meister]

The reason it's not is because when someone's earliest posts are complete garbage then they forfeit their right to be heard around here.
Whoa, hold on. Says who?

When 10 members of the community at large, who have proven themselves to be otherwise stellar posters, do something silly and kind-of-against the rules but not a big deal, then it should be obvious to where you put the leeway.
Leeway only goes so far. If a thread has a more-or-less specific topic and veers a little off that topic by natural progression of the conversation, sure, whatever, but someone waltzing in and declaring the topic to be something entirely else from this point on doesn't fly, and if I've let that slide in the younger past please point me to it so I can have another look.

e: honestly "tangent" implies there's at least one small common element between the two.

It comes down to discretion, basically, and no one agrees with your discretion lately.
Frankly, tough, because this forum's moderation has never been run by community committee.

[Krylo]

Frankly, tough, because this forum's moderation has never been run by community committee.

See what you should have done here is change your user name to "Community Committee" and say that the Community Committee agrees.

[Meister]

Look I think it's been pretty well established that we have trouble with this whole hindsight thing without you rubbing it in.:crossarms:

[rpgdemon]

I just figured that was how things worked 'round here. People break rules flagrantly in stupid ways*, mods do crazy** things that effect you in the short term, and then it all blows over in about a month or two anyhow.***

*Not a comment on anything in particular, just more of a general case. If someone wants to read it as a comment on anything in particular, let's go with this (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=978549#post978549) post.

**In the short term, at least. In the long term, it means nothing, but I can see where people might get upset over extreme short term punishment, when they don't look at the whole picture.

***Disclaimer: This post is not meant to support anyone's opinions or decisions.

Edit: Not even mine. :P

[Archbio]

Look I think it's been pretty well established that we have trouble with this whole hindsight thing without you rubbing it in.

And foresight! :3:

[Meister]

And vocabulary!

[Mesden]

Yeah, dude seriously turned out to be the single worst person in the world to spark BIG MOD DRAMA over and all said, we really should have banned him two or three infractions ago (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1011469#post1011469).

Whoa, hold on. Says who?

Well I'd say the rules do since there's that corollary that says you guys have free right to ban someone after one post if the post is bad enough.

Leeway only goes so far. If a thread has a more-or-less specific topic and veers a little off that topic by natural progression of the conversation, sure, whatever, but someone waltzing in and declaring the topic to be something entirely else from this point on doesn't fly, and if I've let that slide in the younger past please point me to it so I can have another look.

You know what that is a reasonable way to run things in theory and I totally feel you here, but I will explain why this has caused a problem in just a second. Just want you to know I get where you're coming from and this is by no means me going "God fuck you Meister you suck," so much as pure critique.

Frankly, tough, because this forum's moderation has never been run by community committee.

Okay look I didn't want to bring this up, but here's the real problem.

This forum spent three years with the same guy doing pretty much all of the moderation work. It's pretty hard to change back from that, especially when the transition is completely crap (The booting Fifth thread was a catastrophe, the straw on the camel's back has finally proved a complete catastrophe, your resignation and unresignation, lots of stuff). He was a lot less heavy handed and a lot more apologetic when people disagreed with his moderatory decision, despite being an over reactive jerk who didn't like criticism(Sorry fifth!).

Maybe the moderation by community things he sometimes did was something you disagreed with and was one of the many reasons you got rid of him. I don't know and I don't particularly care too much, but it's different.

Basically what happened is we had some old dictators who everyone liked. Then they passed the torch onto a guy who we all loved even more and did stuff we loved. He gets kicked out of office by the old dictators for doing something we love and the old guard proceeds to do what they used to do, but that's not what we want anymore because three years is a long time.

He was overall a lot more community friendly than you guys have been, as proven by this quoted up post, and most forumers loved it -- and I guess it's pretty obvious that very few are fond of the old/new management. If you're okay with that then whatevs, but the reason everyone is upset seems to go over your head. It's not so much that fifth is gone, moreso that the moderation has become vastly different to what we're accustomed and, hell, can't blame the community for not liking a less community friendly moderation team to a more community friendly one.

[BitVyper]

I just wanna thank you guys for always doing these things while I'm at work or in bed.

Edit: I'd say more, but I basically agree with everything Mesden said.

[rpgdemon]

A random side note: Yes, the mods do have right to do whatever they like, but it's worth mentioning that the community is the only reason the forum works in the first place. If the community does all decide, "Hey, we don't like this", it's not as if they're forced to stay around, which does sort of incentivize doing things that the community as a whole likes.

I mean, sure, you can have a forum that's all, "We're the mods and we do what we want because we're mods, suck it.", but who's going to go there?

I guess what I'm saying is that in a situation where the community as a whole thinks one way, versus a mod thinking the other way, it's worth considering a revision of the rules. I actually didn't read the thread in question, so I've got no idea if this is an accurate representation of the facts, but hey. Since when has a lack of knowledge stopped anyone from opening their mouth? :P

[Mirai Gen]

I mean, sure, you can have a forum that's all, "We're the mods and we do what we want because we're mods, suck it.", but who's going to go there?
Who, indeed?

Because that's basically exactly what the moderators* are doing.
Personally I'd rather be wrong about a person, and ultimately ban them legitimately, then be right but have banned them before they did something deserving.
Fifth gave Nightshade a two-week ban, BTW.

I mean I know he got "Banned" therefore Fifthfiend made a horrible judgement call but he basically said "You've done a lot of shit against the rules so I'm going to give you a temporary ban to make you understand you're making serious infractions." Oh god the horror.
Push me into a corner and try and make me look like a fucker all you want, I'm more than happy to take on that role now, because I've finally reached the end of my patience with you.
It's kind of hard to look any worse than you already do for pretty much blatantly saying "We made a mistake, I'm sorry about our mistake, but we're sticking to it anyway cause we said so." The passive-aggressive way you 'apologize' and threaten to ban him for being petty isn't helping considering you could have been more upfront and not brought all of this on yourself.

This whole thing just got spurned up again because plenty of people (by which I mean not just Fifth) are pretty sore about it.

Frankly, tough, because this forum's moderation has never been run by community committee.
Yeah well I can't help but notice that you had this community's best interests at heart when you kicked Fifthfiend off, or am I mistaken somehow?
Yeah, dude seriously turned out to be the single worst person in the world to spark BIG MOD DRAMA over and all said, we really should have banned him two or three infractions ago.

But guys, on the one hand there's the point that we should give people more of an advance warning before we even infract them, and on the other hand there's the point that we should have banned Nightshine more or less immediately after he turned up; I know they're different situations and I'm not trying to say or convince anyone they're the same, but it still kinda sends mixed signals.
Meister, just be totally honest. You didn't even really care about Nightshade or "The Community" or whatever the hell this bullshit even is anymore. You never even did.

This entire fiasco is just your excuse to kick Fifthfiend in the balls, over and over.


*Shiney and Meister

[Ecks]

I just wanna thank you guys for always doing these things while I'm at work or in bed.

Edit: I'd say more, but I basically agree with everything Mesden said.

Ditto. Granted, I'm never present for the shitstorms, whenever they occur, and frankly I'm glad for that.

However, I do feel bad that I can't be here to help everyone else douse the fire, so to speak. I do like Fifth. I remember (vaguely) when he was mod, and the forumites seemed to get along pretty well, barring the odd douche who'd get called on his bullshit and booted out. And I *DO* remember that Fifth had a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later, but he also, as others have stated, tended to ask around and realize that maybe, y'know, he came off as a tad too severe.

I'm not saying I hate the direction the rest of you guys are taking with moderation. Nor am I saying that this direction is inherently a bad thing; but as others have posted, the community at large is used to one style of moderation, so don't be surprised when you guys do your thing and more than a couple of people get pissed.

As for the infraction thing, maybe it's because all I've ever been hit for is double posting (which I correct almost as soon as I do it nowadays), maybe I just came in too late to remember when having an infraction was 'OMFG THIS SUCKS MY RECORD IS TARNISHED FOREVER!' bad. If you guys want to make "+1 infraction" the new "seriously guise, don't do that," then okay. So long as you're just making this part of a new and/or getting-back-to-old direction, and that this is a step in reigning in some vastly overlooked minor rulebreaking, that sounds great to me. Not that, as you guys have said, my opinion, y'know, MATTERS.

[Jagos]

Maybe I'm new to the situation but damn...

What the hell is with everyone today? Usually, we're all happy go lucky with people running rampant and vibrant and just today, it's as if I've logged into a new forums completely!

I believe Krylo had the best advice of anyone. If you're angry and upset about any decision you're about to make, go out. Smoke some weed, hit the gym, eat, fart, go to the bathroom, do something but don't post here with your emotional baggage right next to you!

I just now saw fifth getting banned. I dunno what's going on. Maybe he was mad about things around here. Maybe everyone could have handled this a lot better. I haven't felt all of the community changes that people are noting. Then again, unless it's a new game or an amusing picture I just watch the fireworks. I just think that maybe, just maybe, it's getting a little too much for no damn reason.

[Osterbaum]

Basically I think that all parties involved could have handled some things better. But hell if I get to be all holier-than-thou just because I haven't gotten involved too much.

[Ecks]

Maybe I'm new to the situation but damn...

What the hell is with everyone today? Usually, we're all happy go lucky with people running rampant and vibrant and just today, it's as if I've logged into a new forums completely!

I believe Krylo had the best advice of anyone. If you're angry and upset about any decision you're about to make, go out. Smoke some weed, hit the gym, eat, fart, go to the bathroom, do something but don't post here with your emotional baggage right next to you!

I just now saw fifth getting banned. I dunno what's going on. Maybe he was mad about things around here. Maybe everyone could have handled this a lot better. I haven't felt all of the community changes that people are noting. Then again, unless it's a new game or an amusing picture I just watch the fireworks. I just think that maybe, just maybe, it's getting a little too much for no damn reason.

Unfortunately, I'm thinking Fifth is still incredibly asshurt about getting demoted, and despite him having a completely valid reason for being pissed, he's been going ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH with Meister and shiney ever since. And in a situation where "This forum ain't big enough for the three of us" and two of the parties involved are mods and one is not... yeah, Fifth had to go bye-bye. I don't like it, but I'm being realistic about this.

[Osterbaum]

I'm quite frankly not sure it was such a deserved ban overall.

[Ecks]

Nor am I. But it's not like, y'know, our opinions really MATTER.

[Loyal]

Well, after this post, (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1038408&postcount=22) something had to be done.

[Mirai Gen]

Well, after this post, (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1038408&postcount=22) something had to be done.

And this is your best suggestion?

[Eltargrim]

Well my post was just eaten; the long and short of it was dear god mods, you are a PR mess. I'm not going to touch on whether what's been done was right (Although fifth earned this one), but you guys are presenting such a negative face to the world.

[Loyal]

I suggested nothing. Though were I in their position I probably would've gone with a temp ban, yeah. If you're trying to patch up relations, Fifth's post is not the way to go.

To be honest, ever since Fifth's demotion I figured this was going to happen eventually. With shiney and Meister so suddenly asserting their positions, and in that way, and over someone like Nightshine of all people, there was pretty much no way there wasn't gonna be another spat between the three sooner or later.

[Kim]

Basically I think that all parties involved could have handled some things better.

Yeah, I conceded as much. Honestly, I do a pretty shit job at keeping my temper in reign when something pisses me off, and I'm trying to get better at it. I'm doing a terrible job at getting better at it, and I still suck pretty hard on that whole "staying calm" business. Sorry, folks!

EDIT: I said it earlier, but I'll say it again, I'm sorry for behaving so poorly in the beginning of this thread. Even if I have problems with the mods, their behavior, and whatnot, and even if it involves me, I really ought to be more mature and calm about it all, and I am very seriously sorry that I wasn't.

Nor am I. But it's not like, y'know, our opinions really MATTER.

And that's another problem with the current management. They basically went out of their way to say "Hey, if you don't like what we're doing, talk to us about it. We want to hear what you think." Then, maybe three months later at most the Fifth ordeal happened and Shiney spelled out quite clearly that what we said would have absolutely no influence on their decisions. Apart from mixed signals, it's a bit frustrating to know that regardless of what you might say, the mods don't give a fuck. Or at least that's how it came off.

[Fenris]

I'm quite frankly not sure it was such a deserved ban overall.

It was. This has been a while coming- he's been fairly abraisive and caustic towards the mod staff ever since he came back during the stay at the TEMPORARIUM.

Like before his account was the puppet of Odjn or whoever but when it was actually him at the helm he was pretty much always a dick to us. Which he had every right to be, for a little while. But instead of getting over it, his dickitude started to increase as time went by so basically, yeah, he needed moderatorial action of some sort done.

I'm sad to see him go, he was funny and a good guy but man he was simply incapable of not holding a grudge.

the mods don't give a fuck. Or at least that's how it came off.
I do.

And it is a problem, and it will be addressed.

[Osterbaum]

I know all of that, but I'm still not 100% sure it was deserved overall.

But instead of getting over it,
It's difficult to put a time limit on how soon you get over something, though.

[Mirai Gen]

And it is a problem, and it will be addressed.
Why am I reminded of the six or seven times I heard "We're going to be doing stuff differently now" that pretty much all three of you have said to absolutely no change whatsoever?

I mean the only reason I'm even here is because I find it absolutely absurd how much covering up is being done to put this entire thing to rest with practically no genuine interest to making things 'different' and instead just doing things how we always did sans Fifthfiend. It's like we're not telling the most popular kid to leave, but we're certainly making him feel unwelcome and pouring drinks down his suit.

[krogothwolf]

I kind of agree with the mods on this one, personally feelings aside. Fifth was pushing and pushing and pushing them. I like fifth, he's a cool guy. But you can only push so many buttons before someone goes "Alright, enough of this shit." and deal with it. Personally, I wouldn't have let fifth go as long as he had been, it was starting to seriously be annoying at times.

People make mistakes and sometimes let personal feelings get in the way, but Fifth, he was turning this place into a hostile environment. You can't do that. Not only that, when 2 people buttheads somethings gotta give, and the ones with the greater power are going to win in the end. Fifth shoulda realized this and cut his losses and smarten up. We may not like what they did to him but hell, a team has to function together in the end and nothing has overly changed in this place, just one member and few leave over it but that's their choice. If you don't like something you have 2 options, try to change it in a good way or leave. Fifth option was be a dick to those who pissed you off till they banned you, that can only get you so far.

[Fenris]

Why am I reminded of the six or seven times I heard "We're going to be doing stuff differently now" that pretty much all three of you have said to absolutely no change whatsoever?

I don't know why because I don't think anybody's ever said that before? Could be wrong though.

It's difficult to put a time limit on how soon you get over something, though.
I'm not about to give out "be a dick for x amount of time" passes.

Basically I figured that if he actually tried to get over it instead of milking it for all it's worth, the amount of dickishness would decrease semi-linearly to 0 over time. Instead, it increased over time and we just got sick and tired of being increasingly ridiculed and mocked by fifth.

[Osterbaum]

Neither "side" of the whole issue has been acting spectacularily or anything. While I don't like it that Fifth is now banned, I can't really say it was an unfair ban and raise hell about it. I guess what really irks me here is the whole slippery-slope (not the logical fallacy) that this whole fiasco has been, and that I could critisize. Atleast as someone who was largely uninvolved in all of it.

[Mirai Gen]

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=993414&postcount=359
We're going to make a decision and pass it on to you plebs shortly.
http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=992573&postcount=314
As far as amendming it for the future, yeah. We'll have an entirely separate set of rules for mods to complement the overall forum ruleset so we don't have problems like this in the future.

Sorry you feel like you're not okay with this but honestly it's not okay to flame anyone really, banned or no...it definitely was okay at one point, and maybe in my own shifting viewpoint toward a more mature and less antagonistic style of moderation, the rules should have adjusted accordingly. Dunno. They will though.
Also Meister said he was 'not being a mod' or whatever and that lasted all of two days so sure we can chalk that up to another promise unfulfilled.

Also also seriously I'm not defending Fifth being abrasive towards a moderator staff who have shown him no respect. He's reacting as anyone could expect.

But maybe if the moderator staff did anything other than saying "Welp, deal with it" maybe he wouldn't have flown so completely off the handle? And maybe I wouldn't have either.

[Fenris]

Well Mirai in that post I was referring to new moderators.

Shiney's post though, yeah. That needs to happen.

[Mirai Gen]

Well Mirai in that post I was referring to new moderators.
Yeah, look at how many new ones we have?

[Osterbaum]

Man, this shit is way worse than the assasination of some guy named Franz Ferdinand.

EDIT: Mirai has a point. I remember there being some talk about new mods, and while I don't expect you to appoint just anyone in like two days, it has been some time already. Maybe new mods would be a breath of fresh-air. That's always good.

[Fenris]

Yeah, look at how many new ones we have?

Yes, because "make a decision" means "promote somebody."

We decided to not promote somebody.

Y'know, as I announced in this post. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=994375&postcount=4)

[Krylo]

Listen, I like Fifth, a lot. Always got along with him. When we were both admin we'd always be on the same side pretty much all the time.

And I'll admit when I saw he was banned my gut reaction was, well, not a good one.

However, while, MAYBE Shiney didn't have to 'poke' at him in that thread/with that post, the fact is that Shiney didn't call him out on anything that wasn't true. Fifth was acting out, and Fenris is 100% correct in so far as being ridiculed/mocked by Fifth. This would have come eventually either way.

His banning here isn't some kind of huge injustice, or I'd be right there making trouble with the rest of you all (as we all know I'm terrible at backing down). However, he brought it on himself.

I WILL say that I hope it's temporary because I'm definitely going to miss him, but I also hope it's somewhat long term, because unless he's gone for another number of months (like after he 'quit' after the discussion moratorium thing) I don't think it's going to end any differently.

Further: As an ex-admin I know that the administrators/moderators can't just open up a 'community committee' and roll everything past the users first. It's just not a viable method, and the admins/mods need to have the ability to tell the user base that things are going to go down THIS way.

However, I will agree that what we have here is basically a PR nightmare, in that even though that's the case the concerns, and, moreover, enjoyment of the user base should definitely be taken into account in so far as how moderation is handled goes. After all, the entire reason these forums exist is so that fans of Brian's work can come together and enjoy ourselves.

And I'm sure that they do listen when we bitch about things and take our concerns into account, if for no other reason than I know Shiney is a giant vagina who totally cries himself to sleep after we rip him a new one, but the way the moderators and admin staff are portraying themselves here is, definitely, giving the impression that they don't care what we say and that our opinions don't matter at all.

That said, the moderators and admins are ALSO part of this community, however, and while they, perhaps, have the responsibility to have a 'thicker skin' when it comes to being insulted or taken to task over their job, they also shouldn't have the responsibility to put up with a member--any member--no matter how well liked attacking them repeatedly.

So, basically, what we have here is a massive failure on the diplomacy checks.

I think we'd be well served if maybe this thread got closed and everyone kind of stepped back for a day. Maybe we could open a new one tomorrow if we really feel we still need to discuss this.

Also: Hire a PR guy, mods.

[synkr0nized]

Also Meister said he was 'not being a mod' or whatever and that lasted all of two days so sure we can chalk that up to another promise unfulfilled.

You should really let that one go. It's old news, we convinced him not to do it, and he's still an admin. I don't get why folks think he's not or was going to go away.

[krogothwolf]

Well, if this thing ever does become another childish, divisive flamewar like the whole UJ thing was, I can always fire up Diplomacy and we could settle things there.

Seriously, I will not miss that guy. He posted things that made me laugh. That's it. I can find plenty of that on the rest of the internet.

Like Diplomacy would solve a flame war.....it would just make it worse! Far Far worse! All the backstabbing and the frontstabbing and the playing allies against each other....actually that sounds like a great idea!

Edit: a PR guy would be a great thing! He could make announcements and spin them to make it seem like you are benevolent dictators!

On the note about Meister, he's never seemed like a bad mod to me at all. So I don't see what ya all are getting on him about.

[Token]

I've been secretly waiting for that guy to get the banhammer bitchslap for a while now. Well, me and several others who will remain unnamed. I just hope this doesn't somehow become the Austrian Duke assassination of NPF.

May I take Fifth's place as resident asshole now?

According to you, NO. (http://nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1017345&postcount=69) It's Asshat's time to shine, bitches!

More on topic, I'm not sure how I feel about this whole mess. Both sides are acting like assholes and shitheads. There's no black or white in this one, there's simply the question of whose douchiness is more acceptable. Hell if I know; the only thing I'm sure of is that NPF isn't nearly as fun as it was when I started lurking in '06. :/

[Seil]

the TEMPORARIUM.

It still never existed.

I mean the only reason I'm even here is because I find it absolutely absurd how much covering up is being done to put this entire thing to rest with practically no genuine interest to making things 'different' and instead just doing things how we always did sans Fifthfiend. It's like we're not telling the most popular kid to leave, but we're certainly making him feel unwelcome and pouring drinks down his suit.

Covering up? I don't think this is a conspiracy or anything, man, but there is something going down. Let's all step back for a second and write some of this down the way it happened:

1) Fifth banned Nightwhatsits because whatsits was being a dick.

2) Shiney and Meister, as many mods came forth and proclaimed that they were away or didn't want to get involved, rescinded Fifths mod-hood.

3) Drama storm filled with drama bananas, Shiney and Meister get a negative reputation for doing something controversial.

4) Fifthfiend leaves for a bit. Iuhnno where 'e went. Updated his blog.

5) Fifth comes back, and is a little over-enthusiastic. He goofs around for a bit, and forum business continues on as usual.

6) The VGCats Thread (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=37845) rolls around, and Blues states that

You know, I really did mean for this to be a discussion of what makes the base of a game, but looking at my reply in this thread, I mishandled that worse than I usually do.

I suppose I'll just make a new thread in the games forum with a bit more clarity.

Which is as much of an ending as the thread was ever gonna get. Fifth proclaims it a nonsense thread from that point on, and a few forumites join in.

7) The forumites and Fifth get an infraction for bein' spammy, which is kind of understandable.

8) Ho shit drama storm from a Non-Con thread where we're all yellin' at each other and we all get hot 'round the collars and Fifth gets banned.

/end fact list

So on one level, yes - Fifthfiend was a totally great, fun, intelligent guy. On the other hand, he was a mod who was kicked off the staff list because of the decision of two persons who received negative rep for it and because of their new reputation, people are lashing out against them.

I don't believe that Fifth should be perma-banned, but as a former mod he should've known better than to yell at people in public. As for the mod staff, they should know better than to yell at people in public. It should've been a private matter discussed atwixt those involved as it obviously deteriorated to being about Fifth and his former modship.

That's my opinion. Those are the facts that I know about. All I'm sayin' is that we're yelling at each other again an' I dun wanna see any more people perma-banned. So all of you - From Shiney and Meister to Mirai and Non-Con to whoever else. Follow the rules and argue in PMs. You might say some stuff you regret, but at least it'll be in private. Then we can all talk about the facts after we've cooled off and not get so angry at each other.

[Osterbaum]

I think we'd be well served if maybe this thread got closed and everyone kind of stepped back for a day. Maybe we could open a new one tomorrow if we really feel we still need to discuss this.
I'm not entirely convinced a new one would be opened and allowed to stay open. But I do feel that things need to be discussed, because whatever the original reasons, this whole mess has become far greater than it's source and it's not going to just go away forever.

[Mirai Gen]

Yes, because "make a decision" means "promote somebody."

We decided to not promote somebody.

Y'know, as I announced in this post. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=994375&postcount=4)

Yeah cause that whole post isn't horseshit.

I mean everyone had been like "Hey hiring new people is a great idea!" then it was "Well, we decided not to, but we'll be looking into it in the future," and then it gets swept under the table. Again.

I mean jesus christ Fenris this isn't rocket science. New mods and rules was the only reason half the people were even partway sated, once you dangled the string of possible changes in front of the community you could just put the toy away and nobody would think about it after.

Again, this entire thing is just Shiney and Meister kicking Fifthfiend in the balls, over and over. Nobody's going to change anything, threads are going to be just as off-topic as ever, nobody's going to become a mod, no rules are going to be put into place, everyone's going to be as mean and sarcastic as ever. That's all it's ever been and that's all it will be.

Oh yeah and also if you prove me wrong by actually doing all the shit you were six months late to doing and therefore make this place better then oh man egg on my face.
You should really let that one go. It's old news, we convinced him not to do it, and he's still an admin. I don't get why folks think he's not or was going to go away.
It's just an example of one of many times that "Oh things are going to change" then "Oh wait no they aren't." I have no dispute with it other than that.

[Fenris]

That's my opinion. Those are the facts that I know about. All I'm sayin' is that we're yelling at each other again an' I dun wanna see any more people perma-banned. So all of you - From Shiney and Meister to Mirai and Non-Con to whoever else. Follw the rules and argue in PMs. You might say some stuff you regret, but at least it'll be in private.

No, this pretty explicitly needs to be a public conversation.

[Bob The Mercenary]

[Note on my previous posts]

I've deleted both of them because I'm drunk as fuck on Beringer Cabernet and really have no reason to post in here supporting either "side".

My offer for Diplomacy still stands though.

[synkr0nized]

two persons who received negative rep for it and because of their new reputation, people are lashing out against them.

I do have to wonder if someone who folks hadn't been enjoying posting with for several years had been making the kinds of posts in question if people would be getting so up in arms.

[Fenris]

angry things

I hope you like eggs.

[bluestarultor]

Alright, I've been watching this train wreck and I'm now going to chime in.


First off, yeah, I got infracted, too, and I'll admit I'm a bit butthurt about it, given that it was my thread and I'd also just previously released it, so to speak, and made a different thread in a better forum which stayed to the topic I wanted. But at least this one will wear off in a month, so it's a warning and I'll make note of it.

On Fifth, let me first say I like the guy and relied on him heavily when he was a mod and even afterward. The entire thing with him leaves a bad taste in my mouth not because of any one-sided thing, but because it's just plain toxic all over. I realize how people felt about his demotion and I also realize how people feel now about his banning, but the fact of the matter is he was consistently subversive to the remaining staff and it sometimes was less tolerable than it could have been. He can always make another account, and when things finally settle between him and the staff, he'll be able to stay here as per the rules. Until then, he'll just be banned. It could be worse. For me, his original account is meaningless, because that's all it is, and when he comes back, I'll still like him on whatever new one he creates.

This is all being blown way out of proportion and I think everyone needs to take a few minutes to settle and think objectively, rather than sniping back and forth and getting less than nowhere. Nothing about the situation is irreversible and it's not going to get better until everyone can see that and work toward making things better.

[Mirai Gen]

I must - I've been waiting a long time for them!

[Bob The Mercenary]

http://bfme2.heavengames.com/lore/article_pix/helms_deep_2

And so it begins...

[Fenris]

I think it's pretty obvious that what we have going right now ain't working so well so it's time for some goddamn changes to be taking place.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite dick enough to just go ahead and make the changes I think would be neat without going through the other mods so y'all are just gonna have to wait for the racing stripes and ferris wheel.

[Osterbaum]

This is all being blown way out of proportion[...]
Not really. Nevermind the original issue, this one is now just as big as all of use have made it and it needs to be dealt with.

[Kim]

I do have to wonder if someone who folks hadn't been enjoying posting with for several years had been making the kinds of posts in question if people would be getting so up in arms.

I said before, but my bitching had little to nothing to do with Fifth, and more to do with Meister's inconsistent moderation and how it directly affected me.

Fifth's a good guy. I hate to see him go. His banning is the result of poor situation handling going very far back. While Fifth ultimately behaved in a such an antagonistic way that maybe his banning was inevitable, a lot of the problem is also the fault of the mods, not merely for how they originally demoted him, but for how they're currently doing their job. It's not as simple as Fifth was a jerk and got banned, nor is it just mods are being jerks. I started this thread poorly, and I'm trying to make up for that by being Mister Maturepants right now, and I have to say that there definitely needs to be changes to how things are done.

Fenris has said that'll happen, but that doesn't mean it will, because even if Fenris really wants it to, he's not the only mod. Fenris and Synk also said "Tell us if you have a problem with how we do our job", and shortly thereafter had their legs cut out from under them by Shiney going "Your opinion doesn't matter." Shiney also said there'd be changes, and that hasn't happened. Who is to blame for that I won't speculate on, because the mods aren't Zerg. They have different opinions and handle situations differently, so even if one wants change, it can't be guaranteed that change will happen.

Change needs to happen, and if it doesn't, it's the mods as a whole who will take the blame. Maybe that's fair, or maybe it isn't, but that's how it is.

[Krylo]

I hope you like eggs.

I must - I've been waiting a long time for them!

This thread is now about eggs.

I personally preferred mine fried, with the yolk still a little runny, over either hashbrowns or corned beef hash, or used as dip for buttered toast.

Though I do make a mean, and delightfully fluffy, scrambled egg with cream cheese, hickory smoked cheddar, bacon salt, and pepper jack cheese. They're just a little more work to make.

[/Fifth]

[Seil]

I think it's pretty obvious that what we have going right now ain't working so well so it's time for some goddamn changes to be taking place.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite dick enough to just go ahead and make the changes I think would be neat without going through the other mods so y'all are just gonna have to wait for the racing stripes and ferris wheel.

It's been a long time since we've had a poll thread, right? Something where forumites voted?

[Fenris]

This thread is now about eggs.

I personally preferred mine fried, with the yolk still a little runny, over either hashbrowns or corned beef hash, or used as dip for buttered toast.

Though I do make a mean, and delightfully fluffy, scrambled egg with cream cheese, hickory smoked cheddar, bacon salt, and pepper jack cheese. They're just a little more work to make.

[/Fifth]

lolbant?!

It's been a long time since we've had a poll thread, right? Something where forumites voted?

There is no goddamn way that this could be handled by poll.

[Token]

I think it's pretty obvious that what we have going right now ain't working so well so it's time for some goddamn changes to be taking place.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite dick enough to just go ahead and make the changes I think would be neat without going through the other mods so y'all are just gonna have to wait for the racing stripes and ferris wheel.

So, what changes do you as a staff member think we need?

[Bob The Mercenary]

Personally, Dunkin Donuts sausage egg and cheese on a waffle is orgasmic. Though I'm sad they're doing the whole "for a short time only" thing, and that only one place by me sells them.

[Fenris]

So, what changes do you as a staff member think we need?

I think the rules need to be looked at by all the mods, I think a PR guy needs to be hired, and I think we need to promote another moderator.

Maybe like, Mesden or somebody else with estrogen.

I also think that we should moderate for the people and not for ourselves so shiney's running m.o. of "your opinion doesn't matter" or whatever the hell you kids are saying it is doesn't sit well with me. Not saying that you'd get what you wanted all the time, but at least your voices would be acknowledged and weighed in decision making, via PR guy, most likely.

[Loyal]

Why do I get the feeling that the PR guy would bemoan his job even more than the mods say they do?

[Mirai Gen]

This thread is now about eggs.

I personally preferred mine fried, with the yolk still a little runny, over either hashbrowns or corned beef hash, or used as dip for buttered toast.

Though I do make a mean, and delightfully fluffy, scrambled egg with cream cheese, hickory smoked cheddar, bacon salt, and pepper jack cheese. They're just a little more work to make.

[/Fifth]

BRB - omelette.

[Fenris]

Why do I get the feeling that the PR guy would bemoan his job even more than the mods say they do?

Because that means it's working.

[POS Industries]

Okay so I tried reading through the whole rest of this thread and let me just say that I agree with you.

Yes you. You are totally 100% right about whatever your stance on the issue is.

Also kneel before Zod, I guess.

[Fenris]

Shiney gave me the go-ahead, so now POS is a mod, yay POS.

Krylo's the PR guy, yay Krylo.

[Osterbaum]

Ok, this is the point where I go to sleep.

EDIT: And hopefully wake up to a new day (later this day) to find everything well.

[synkr0nized]

The fact that a "PR guy" is apparently needed speaks volumes.

[Bob The Mercenary]

EDIT: And hopefully wake up to a new day (later this day) to find everything well.

Same here.

Hail POS!

[Edit] Why exactly do we need a PR guy?

[Premmy]

I would imagine a "PR guy" is sort of like a community representative to the mods, And that works on another forums I haunt so I think it's a good idea.

[phil_]

POS, Krylo, you have my condolences. I'm so sorry. In fact, I think this is the first time I've ever felt bad for Krylo. He thought he was out; he thought he was free.

[Krylo]

Please direct all hails to me, and I will distribute them to the proper mods.

Do this by filling out 'Hail Requisition Form 51.b'.

Thank you, and have a pleasant evening.

Edit: This also goes for condolences. In the future, please fill out 'Condolences Form 13.a5'.

[shiney]

[Edit] Why exactly do we need a PR guy?
Uh because it was requested by several people I would imagine.

How is my position "your opinion doesn't matter"? I don't recall outright saying that, I mean I could be wrong, many of you have way more steel-trap memories than I do, but seriously? If I didn't care, why would I be hosting the forums on my own dime and spending time fixing the myriad server issues that have occurred? Saying I don't care about people's opinions is outright dishonest and hurtful. I've been a member of this community for longer than probably every single person who's posted in this thread and I just don't know where you guys can get off acting like I'm the anti-christ just because I get fed up with trying to be diplomatic with someone who isn't interested in any kind of discourse and I finally ban someone who has been abusive toward me and mine for a long, long time.

[Seil]

Krylo's the PR guy, yay Krylo.

We'll be sure to bury you next to Orion Pulse.

[POS Industries]

Hail POS!

[Edit] Why exactly do we need a PR guy?
The former sentence answers the latter.

[Kim]

@Shiney: I'm far too lazy and tired of this shit to go and dig it up, but you pretty much said, word for word, "Your opinions don't matter" back when you demoted Fifth. It wasn't even a "in respect to this event" kinda way either. If you'd like to take that back, you're more than welcome to, but you stated it pretty clearly.

[Mirai Gen]

UPDATE

The omelette is kinda dry. I think I needed more cheese and more oil.

[shiney]

I'm glad to take it back insofar as people's opinions do matter in most circumstances, but sometimes when it comes down to a team working together but one member of the team is just completely not, then regardless of how much people don't want things to change, they're gonna have to change. It certainly wasn't meant as some global "nobody matters" type statement. Occasionally a decision is made that is very unpopular and will have to remain that way y'know?

[Bob The Mercenary]

Uh because it was requested by several people I would imagine.

Oh.

I should shut up. I should really just shut up.

[Krylo]

The real reason we need a PR guy is so I can haunt the Mod Forum again.

I currently have no other powers, and even if I manage to finagle my way into the Admin CP, I absolutely hate enforcing rules so I won't be doing that. I'm not a mod, I'm just here to try and make sure that everyone gets along.

Though my role is so far pretty undefined. If any of that changes I'll let you all know, but I actually hope it doesn't.

THAT SAID, Shiney may have said things to the effect of our (yours, now, I guess?) opinions don't matter, but as anyone who has played RaiRO, or has known him for long enough, knows, he's kind of a pussy. He is all full of emotions and gets his feelings hurt pretty easily by things that we say to him. It'd be pretty much impossible for him to NOT care what we say, or take it into account when making decisions. He's just very very bad at explaining that, while he may, sometimes, have to make unpopular decisions, he still CARES that they are unpopular.

That said, however, even if that weren't true (and it is), I promise to do my best to make sure that he DOES care about, and take into account, your guys' opinions in the future.

I've already read the mod forum, and there has been talk about individually reviewing each and every rule. The consensus is, currently, that not much will change, but some things might/will.

I will also attempt to make sure that we get some rules for moderators put in there in the meantime.

I'm not sure what rules to suggest though, so if the community has some opinions on this, why not go ahead and voice them.

[Wigmund]

Oh dear god, we're all gonna die aren't we?

[shiney]

Oh jeez thanks Krylo. :argh:

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Oh dear god, we're all gonna die aren't we?

Shut up Rattrap!

[Loyal]

The secret's out, shiney! You're soft, and weak! You'll never mod in this town again!

[Krylo]

Oh jeez thanks Krylo. :argh:

You know, I think another "Shiney, Dickhole or Assface" or whatever thread might be good for user morale right about now.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I can always let it slip how I tricked him into entering a Christian college dorm.

Oops. >_>

<3

[Seil]

You know, I think another "Shiney, Dickhole or Assface" or whatever thread might be good for user morale right about now.

I guess it would also be good for morale if you had some pancakes, too, huh?

[Token]

I think the rules need to be looked at by all the mods, I think a PR guy needs to be hired, and I think we need to promote another moderator.

Maybe like, Mesden or somebody else with estrogen.

I also think that we should moderate for the people and not for ourselves so shiney's running m.o. of "your opinion doesn't matter" or whatever the hell you kids are saying it is doesn't sit well with me. Not saying that you'd get what you wanted all the time, but at least your voices would be acknowledged and weighed in decision making, via PR guy, most likely.

I think these are all excellent ideas. There's only one thing I would change: the rules need to be looked at by all the mods and all the members. I think that in all honesty, if the mods are coming across as unfair, it's because a lot of us have been pushing it. Now, for a long time there haven't really been consequences for that because the guy who seemed to do most of the modding loved to push it as well. People grew used to that, the "regime," for lack of a better word, changed, and many of us chafed. Its not excusable, but it is understandable. I'm afraid a long winded and awkwardly worded rant is coming up.

As for Fifth: I like him. I really do. He was sort of like my old English teacher in that when people started joking around, he would jump right in. Don't get me wrong, it was fun as hell when it lasted, but it hurt us in the long run. We got accustomed to that, an authority figure who was pretty much one of us, didn't mind the swearing or sarcasm. And the next year, when we got a different teacher, most of us ended up in detention and our old teacher ended up fired. This may seem like a tangent, but the analogy makes sense in my head. Fifth was great. He was one of us, and we grew accustomed to less stringent enforcement of certain rules. Nothing vital; we didn't go around posting porn or doing anything illegal, but we grew to expect the occasional flame or spam post. It got worse, the mods decided to act.

Like it or not, they did their job.

There's really no denying that. However, there is also no denying that they were pushed into action that none of us -and I do mean us. NPF as a whole. Mods, posters and lurkers alike- none of us liked, because of a disagreement about what is acceptable forum behavior. I don't think you can really blame any one person or group for this. We can't change what happened, but for the sake of the community we need to come together and figure out how to fix it.

As I was saying a paragraph or two ago, I like Fifth. He's funny and intelligent. However, lately his behavior was out and out trollish.I understand why he would be bitter, but he handled it in entirely the wrong manner. Synk raised an interesting point that no one had discussed at the time I started writing this (with how quickly this thread is moving, that may change by the time I hit submit). What would we think if we saw Fifth's actions coming from someone who wasn't him? If he were just some new guy who disliked the staff? We'd treat him like we treated Nightlight or Frogman. I've seen this kind of thing on a forum I used to visit. There was an admin who was absolutely invaluable to the site's current state. But he had a different style from the rest of the staff, he crossed too many lines, and got fired. He got bitter as well, and started taking it out on everyone. Dude had an obscene amount of proxies as well, so they couldn't ban him- and for a few months they didn't want to. They thought he'd get over it. Now, someone who was one of the most important, funny, and well liked members of the forums is on pretty much everyone's ignore list because he held a grudge for six years. I'd hate to see that happen to Fifth, and I'm kind of glad he got this ban- assuming it's not permanent. In all honesty, he deserved it, and maybe more time to cool off is what he needs.

Right now though, Fifth isn't the issue. NPF is the issue, and I don't think we all understand that. A lot of us have been bitter since he was demodded, because we no longer have a rapport with the staff. That rapport was one of the reasons that NPF was, as so eloquently put "less of a shithole than most other places on the internet." It's certainly part of the reason I finally ended up joining after swearing off forums. It certainly didn't help that we've been getting a lot of non-answers over the past few months. I think a PR guy is just what we need to bring some semblance of community back to the forums. More community than just us versus them anyway, which is what it seems to be devolving into. I just don't know how many people would be willing to do it at this point though.

EDIT: GODDAMNIT PROBLEMS RESOLVED IN THE HALF HOUR IT TOOK ME TO TYPE THIS.

[Premmy]

I'm not sure what rules to suggest though, so if the community has some opinions on this, why not go ahead and voice them.
Just off the top of my head

1: Banning or Infracting someone for holding reprehensible opinions is not allowed) as long as they break no actual existing rules

2: Temp Bans and minor infractions can be tossed around like hard candy, but any perma bans or serious infractions have to be approved by either an admin, or 2-3 mods.

3: No major decisions( Promotions, Demotions, Major Rule changes) can be made, either by admin, or mod, without a general consensus of the mod staff.

4: If a mod is going to get up to HILARIOUS mod-power abusing shenanigans, they should at least says so in the mod forum to prevent confusion

There should also be some sort of agreed-upon protocol within the mod staff regarding how to conduct oneself whilst doing official duties.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I have one.

As stupid as it sounds, I think alternate forum colours should be restricted to mod's and admins, who use them when in Mod/Admin mode. When one always posts in white, we don't know if they are joking or not.

Of note I don't include Synk as he turns his font to white when enforcing the rule.

[Krylo]

Just off the top of my head

1: Banning or Infracting someone for holding reprehensible opinions is not allowed) as long as they break no actual existing rulesI hope we don't actually ever need this rule, but it would help to lay it out, I suppose, as that it should definitely be a 'fireable' offense.

Edit: On the other hand, certain opinions come close to falling under flaming. It'd have to be kind of a grey area rule so far as misogyny racism homophobia etc. are concerned where such views could easily be seen as flaming parts of the user base.

2: Temp Bans and minor infractions can be tossed around like hard candy, but any perma bans or serious infractions have to be approved by either an admin, or 2-3 mods.

Was thinking of this one myself, and kind of left off mentioning it because it seems it might be overly restrictive to staff in the case of someone needing to be perm banned, though in such cases they could merely be temp banned until a consensus has been reached.

Not sure such should be necessary for infractions though, as that it's possible to remove them as I remember. I don't have admin access to check, though, so I'm not 100% on this.

3: No major decisions( Promotions, Demotions, Major Rule changes) can be made, either by admin, or mod, without a general consensus of the mod staff.Definitely should have this one.

4: If a mod is going to get up to HILARIOUS mod-power abusing shenanigans, they should at least says so in the mod forum to prevent confusionMaaaybe.

There should also be some sort of agreed-upon protocol within the mod staff regarding how to conduct oneself whilst doing official duties.I think this is what we kind of require rules for the mods for more than anything. To lay out this protocol.

I have one.

As stupid as it sounds, I think alternate forum colours should be restricted to mod's and admins, who use them when in Mod/Admin mode. When one always posts in white, we don't know if they are joking or not.

Of note I don't include Synk as he turns his font to white when enforcing the rule.
Seems like it'd be too restrictive to the users. I mean, we already give Seil shit all the time, it'd just feel like a low blow to take away his pink.

[synkr0nized]

Just off the top of my head

1: Banning or Infracting someone for holding reprehensible opinions is not allowed(otherwise known as the Lev Eugenics/ Smarty Communism) as long as they break no actual existing rules

This is already how it is, or at the very least how it is meant to be. If the staff has not been doing this, then it's not the creation of this rule but rather its better enforcement that is necessary.

2: Temp Bans and minor infractions can be tossed around like hard candy, but any perma bans or serious infractions have to be approved by either an admin, or 2-3 mods.

Not everyone is on at the same time to make these kinds of votes, as this is an asynchronous medium with people in different time zones. To compensate, when a "large" decision such as this is made, it's left open for discussion and can be amended as appropriate.

3: No major decisions( Promotions, Demotions, Major Rule changes) can be made, either by admin, or mod, without a general consensus of the mod staff.

This is how it works. No one* has been promoted or demoted or rules changed without discussion, though perhaps it should be made more explicit in the rules thread that this is how it works.

* There are various characteristics of the time with which most users would refute my claim here that I feel leave me able to still validly make this claim.

4: If a mod is going to get up to HILARIOUS mod-power abusing shenanigans, they should at least says so in the mod forum to prevent confusion

We've yet to have any issues failing to figure this out or mention what's up if others aren't on. What makes you think otherwise?

There should also be some sort of agreed-upon protocol within the mod staff regarding how to conduct oenself whilst doing official duties.

This may be worth making more explicit, I don't know. I can only speak for myself, and I don't think it's very difficult to tell when I am being serious or not, joking around or appropriately professional, but maybe it is.


So anyway nothing you're proposing is new to what happens, but perhaps it should be thrown into the rules thread so folks know it happens and it is made more concrete.

E: Well, given some of the posts in this thread, it seems to me like there's a schism in how I think we are doing things and how it appears to many of you. So I like this idea of at least laying out a "here's how we're conducting things" bit in the rules thread(s) so that you don't have to guess or whatever. We have a section about moderator duties and accountability in the rules thread at another community where I mod, and its worked well enough (though to be fair over there is way more lax, so we rarely have much to do).

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Seems like it'd be too restrictive to the users. I mean, we already give Seil shit all the time, it'd just feel like a low blow to take away his pink.

Alright that's fair. But still I say the Mod's need a colour. I know Fenris has Cyan, and shiney has yellow. I think it would help slow down on off topicness if a mod or admin breaks out the mod colour and say knock it off.

Just my 2 cents.

[bluestarultor]

Seems like it'd be too restrictive to the users. I mean, we already give Seil shit all the time, it'd just feel like a low blow to take away his pink.

I think he means every mod should have a mod color.


Edit: Or I could have waited two seconds and let him say it. :J

[Premmy]

I hope we don't actually ever need this rule, but it would help to lay it out, I suppose, as that it should definitely be a 'fireable' offense.
IF it doesn't hurt...

Edit: On the other hand, certain opinions come close to falling under flaming. It'd have to be kind of a grey area rule so far as misogyny racism homophobia etc. are concerned where such views could easily be seen as flaming parts of the user base.

Yeaaah (also, this popped up just as I clicked "quote") true, but I figure, there might need to be some sort of listing or decision on where that line is.


Was thinking of this one myself, and kind of left off mentioning it because it seems it might be overly restrictive to staff in the case of someone needing to be perm banned, though in such cases they could merely be temp banned until a consensus has been reached.
Figured something like that was the case, and guessed that's how it would be handled in such instances

Not sure such should be necessary for infractions though, as that it's possible to remove them as I remember. I don't have admin access to check, though, so I'm not 100% on this.
Really? didn't know that.

I think this is what we kind of require rules for the mods for more than anything. To lay out this protocol.
Does seem redundant now that I look at it. ehhh *Shrug*

[Nikose Tyris]

Bleach him, guys. [steal his access to the color tag.]

[Seil]

As stupid as it sounds, I think alternate forum colours should be restricted to mod's and admins, who use them when in Mod/Admin mode. When one always posts in white, we don't know if they are joking or not.

Seems like it'd be too restrictive to the users. I mean, we already give Seil shit all the time, it'd just feel like a low blow to take away his pink.

No matter what you took (http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2005/20050722.jpg), I'd still be pink underneath.

[Premmy]

They're all pink on the inside!

[Krylo]

OK, but seriously, guys, vote on taking away Seil's ability to use img tags and url tags?

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Yes! For the love of christ YES!

[Marc v4.0]

We are all doomed.

[Token]

OK, but seriously, guys, vote on taking away Seil's ability to use img tags and url tags?

YES.

[Nikose Tyris]

Okay but seriously.

Why am -I- still here, Jesus.

[Krylo]

Okay but seriously.

Why am -I- still here, Jesus.
Because: The real reason we need a PR guy is so I can haunt the Mod Forum again.

I currently have no other powers

[Nikose Tyris]

@Krylo: I've developed a secret love for your hating me, and for hating you. I think I'd be really unhappy if you banned me, or if you got gone. I'd miss you, I'd no longer have anyone to bitch about. <3

[shiney]

words
http://www.metal-china.cn/en/wire/shengjiagong/images/dinglei01.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/mandarin/1/0/d/M/-/-/head.jpg
:>

[Seil]

I take this as a challenge. Have at you, sir!

Also, the revised rule on how a mod should conduct oneself when conducting mod duties should be revised. 'Cause it would leave out the witty retort on the rare perma-ban, like Mash's bashing of 9000. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=947846&postcount=52)

EDIT[image=http://www.metal-china.cn/en/wire/shengjiagong/images/dinglei01.jpg]

[image=http://z.about.com/d/mandarin/1/0/d/M/-/-/head.jpg]

UR DOIN IT WRONG!

[Krylo]

OK, but seriously, guys, vote on taking away Seil's ability to use img tags and url tags?

Also: Shiney's.

[Seil]

Seil I don't think you were ever a misogynistic piece of shit. You were just a bad/spammy/heylookwebcomics poster. Big difference -- one can generally be fixed on the internet.

OK, but seriously, guys, vote on taking away Seil's ability to use img tags and url tags?

I DUN WANNA BE FIXED!

[Krylo]

I DUN WANNA BE FIXED!

Then quit pissing all over the carpet.

[Premmy]

I DUN WANNA BE FIXED!
That won't save you
http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/813/813581/robot-chicken-squaw-bury-shortcake-advance-review-20070817025831112.jpg

[Mesden]

Maybe like, Mesden

Hey now thanks pal, that really means a lo-

Shiney gave me the go-ahead, so now POS is a mod, yay POS.

Hey what the fuck now I thoug-

or somebody else with estrogen.

Alright, good job.

[DFM]

Sweet I showed up just in time to vote to stop everything Seil does that annoys me.

I vote to stop everything Seil does that annoys me.

[Premmy]

You can't commit murder with the forums.

[DFM]

I want him and his colors DEAD.

[Wigmund]

Then quit pissing all over the carpet.

Seil's just doing that because he's stressed due to competition from other posters here. If we find him a nice home where he's not being beaten up by the dominate posters, he should stop making a mess everywhere.

[POS Industries]

Alright, good job.
I'm enjoying my fancy new vagina, thank you very much.

[Mesden]

It's not all it's cracked up to be.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I'm enjoying my fancy new vagina, thank you very much.

Me too. :dance:

[POS Industries]

It's not all it's cracked up to be.
Yes, but now when people tell me to go fuck myself, I can!

[Nikose Tyris]

@POS: Oh you have a vagina now, awesome. I can now find you incredibly sexy without being gay. This is perfect.

[Premmy]

I'm enjoying my fancy new vagina, thank you very much.

It's not new anymore (http://nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1038707&postcount=38).

[DFM]

POS How nasty are the lips would you say they are "kinda" nasty or "Very" nasty.

this will affect my mod campaign in 2012

[Bob The Mercenary]

POS How nasty are the lips would you say they are "kinda" nasty or "Very" nasty.

Glad to see everything's back to normal.

[Nique]

I always liked it when Krylo and Fifth were modding/admining/whatever-ing becuase they tended to participate in posting in threads and pretty often starting new threads too.

Without comenting on whatever this is, the fact that we tend to hear from the mods only when there's trouble (or maybe just mostly - 'only', 'always', and 'never' are pretty big words) may be lending to the feeling of 'not caring about the community'.

EDIT: Of course, I hang around in the General Discussion areas mostly so maybe there is more involvement in the 8-bit section, just for instance.

[Jagos]

Meister is actually around a lot in the Discussion threads lately.

I unno about shiney. He's kinda iffy. He might be getting in touch with his feelings or something.

And he said something about a server... Like we're supposed to believe that! No, he went to get a box of tissues and a novel to cry himself to sleep tonight.

[rpgdemon]

So, uh, should this be locked before too many people get off topic and cited for it? (I AM JUST KIDDING PLEASE DON'T HURT ME NICE PEOPLE.)

[POS Industries]

So, uh, should this be locked before too many people get off topic and cited for it? (I AM JUST KIDDING PLEASE DON'T HURT ME NICE PEOPLE.)
I should infract you for being a pussy.

Anyway yeah, why not? Thread closed.