Infraction wipe AND NEW RULES THREAD HOLY

[shiney]

All infractions have been wiped from users' records.

[Nikose Tyris]

Woo! I'm no longer on death row!

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Does that mean some people who got banned for having lotsa permanent infractions are on the loose again?
Or is this not how it works?

[Tev]

I will forever miss my two infractions.

[krogothwolf]

I never even got an infraction to be whipped, I feel left out from the joy everyone else is experiencing.

Sweet! I have become an evil troll!!!! Mwuahahaha!

[Donomni]

0, 0, 0 infractions, Hah hah hah!

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/files/2010/02/the-count.jpg

[Loyal]

Out of curiosity, why the wipe?

[McTahr]

We want plausible deniability when we un-ban our bestest bestie Nightshine.

[Kim]

If I had to guess, it'd be that they're rewriting up stuff about infractions, and figured it'd be best just to start from scratch with them.

[synkr0nized]

Does that mean some people who got banned for having lotsa permanent infractions are on the loose again?
Or is this not how it works?

If a person earned enough to be banned, they aren't coming back. If a person has a couple of infractions on their account but is still here, then those points are gone. Short version, at any rate.

[POS Industries]

If I had to guess, it'd be that they're rewriting up stuff about infractions, and figured it'd be best just to start from scratch with them.
Pretty much. We're retooling the infraction system into less of a punishment tool on its own and using it more as an internalized tracking system for temp bans, wherein getting a temp ban is the only way to get an infraction, but it will be something only we on the staff see and none of you guys will have to worry about it.

It just saves us the whole "having to manually catalog every ban we give out" song and dance we were doing before and gets rid of a disciplinary system that tended to be more of a headache than anything. Now we'll just give out warnings and bans instead, like in the good old days.

[Meister]

Actually there doesn't seem to be a way to not automatically send infraction PMs so that's something you will continue to see if you get an infraction, but that should itself be a rare event and I guess you could use it for your own bookkeeping or we could see if we can't mod the forum to make it 100% internal.

Might as well roll the entire thing out now, gimme a second. Or more.

edit: okay, we're preparing to roll out a new and improved rules thread but until then let's have some details on this infraction thing.

Basically it's like POS said and infractions are now more a bookkeeping tool than their own method of punishment. For minor stuff - spam, double posting, all of that - there won't be any infractions given out anymore. The most we'll usually do is fix things ourselves (merge posts, move or rename threads, that sort of thing) and leave rule reminders from time to time. We won't keep track of how many times someone double posted or whatever in any way (except personal memory, if you want to be picky about words).

For more severe stuff like flaming or trolling you can expect a temp ban and the number of temp bans you get does go on record via infraction points, and if we notice someone keeps getting temp-banned we'll certainly consider a permanent ban. But even temp bans should be particularly rare.

e: and obviously you can see how having existing infractions around would interfere with that, so we're having everyone start from a blank slate.

[Seil]

I guess you could use it for your own bookkeeping

Yes. That will certainly go into my filing cabinet, next to max tax receipts and my Uni loan papers.

[POS Industries]

We won't keep track of how many times someone double posted or whatever in any way (except personal memory, if you want to be picky about words).
Because I mean if I'm seriously spending my time continually cleaning up after one of you then we will have words.

[synkr0nized]

I know I for one hate double-posting, but I've never walked a hard, strict line with them before. But hey anyone who wants to see how often they can do it before something happens, I'd be more than happy to remove your ability to post for a while.


The rules revision hopefully will make more clear and solid aspects of the rules / moderator conduct that were either unclear before or mentioned in recent threads.

[Bells]

Just to take advantage of the point in question... are you guys considering any changes to Rep and nega-rep system?

[Meister]

We haven't considered any, but what do you have in mind?

New rules thread is up! New moderator/community interaction code is also up! New subforum rules threads are also up! jesus I have to sit down

Take a look, pretty much everything is as it used to be with the exception of the new infraction system AND ONE NEW RULE!

We've been noticing a trend towards thread starting posts that are pretty much one youtube or article link with one or two lines of comment, and we thought it would be great to have more initial posts that are more suited to kicking off an actual discussion, so we're asking everyone who makes a thread based on links to include their own take on what's linked, or to give a brief overview, or anything really, and where that's not possible, to consider the Thread for Interesting Internet Crap instead - a more detailed version is in the new rules thread and in the News subforum rules thread.

There have been several minor changes as well, so you'll probably want to read all the new threads regardless to get up to date on everything.

[shiney]

Personally I am against nega-rep, for reference. It allows for an insidious method of trolling and flaming that is not immediately visible to mods/admins as well as last time we had a fully fledged rep system there were actual movements dedicated to preserving the heirarchy of the rep list which was in a word retarded.

In two words, fucking retarded.

In thr- well you get the point I'm trying to make.

[Ecks]

Looks great, pretty cut and dry.

Off-topic: Not that I'm kissing ass or anything, but I agree with shiny on the negarep system. The one we have now works fine enough: you don't like someone's post, don't rep them, and they forever stay at one green dot. If they're a pretty cool guy, hey, spread the rep around.

[rpgdemon]

If I can give a suggestion: Perhaps mods could keep control of rep/nega-rep, so that it could be a tool to go, "Yo, dude, quit it. I'm not gonna ban you over it, but see how your icon is red now? Yeah, if it gets any redder, you're getting a temporary ban." Then after a ban it could go back to neutral or something.

[Krylo]

If I can give a suggestion: Perhaps mods could keep control of rep/nega-rep, so that it could be a tool to go, "Yo, dude, quit it. I'm not gonna ban you over it, but see how your icon is red now? Yeah, if it gets any redder, you're getting a temporary ban." Then after a ban it could go back to neutral or something.

Admins can edit rep manually.

Also there was some "enough nega-rep and it auto bans you" idea awhile back and no one ever used nega-rep and it takes a long time for nega-rep to build up, so no one ever got to that point.

[rpgdemon]

Admins can edit rep manually.

Also there was some "enough nega-rep and it auto bans you" idea awhile back and no one ever used nega-rep and it takes a long time for nega-rep to build up, so no one ever got to that point.

I didn't mean that the rep should be the same system that we have right now, but rather that it could be reworked to be a warning/"Okay, he's a cool guy" system. Mods/admins would be the only ones who can add/subtract rep, and it would be a representation as to how close to destruction one is.

Alternately, it could be added in as a separate system.

[bluestarultor]

I didn't mean that the rep should be the same system that we have right now, but rather that it could be reworked to be a warning/"Okay, he's a cool guy" system. Mods/admins would be the only ones who can add/subtract rep, and it would be a representation as to how close to destruction one is.

Alternately, it could be added in as a separate system.

Well, the mods CAN nega-rep, which could be counted as a new way of "infracting" someone, but to be honest, a lot people don't use the system much, mods included. It's really there as a measure of who the community thinks said something cool, and the cooler the person who thinks that, the more rep you get from them.

Giving it just to the mods makes for a dead system.

Think of it as the lump sum of all the good stuff you ever said without all the idiotic stuff being held against you. "You at your best." Because to be honest, I heard about the elitism negarepping caused and don't like the idea of being around for it, but I do like the idea of being able to give someone something a bit more as a kudos than just posting your agreement.

[tacticslion]

Well, the mods CAN nega-rep, which could be counted as a new way of "infracting" someone, but to be honest, a lot people don't use the system much, mods included. It's really there as a measure of who the community thinks said something cool, and the cooler the person who thinks that, the more rep you get from them.

Giving it just to the mods makes for a dead system.

Think of it as the lump sum of all the good stuff you ever said without all the idiotic stuff being held against you. "You at your best." Because to be honest, I heard about the elitism negarepping caused and don't like the idea of being around for it, but I do like the idea of being able to give someone something a bit more as a kudos than just posting your agreement.

Pretty much this. While I think the "nega-rep" sounds humerous and/or useful in theory, really I don't think the maturity-levels of a free, unrestricted internet-forum is a good place for such a system. Leaving it as it is now makes it more special when you rep someone, as it's a forever thing and can't be undone outside of an Act of Mod.

I'd probably rep more, if I thought of it, and I'm sure I'm not alone. It's just one more thing that, if you added nega-rep to only dedicated people would use often, and that would probably lead to abuse. Again. As it is, you really only use it when you think "man, that was great, I wish I could give some sort of approval - oh, wait, I can!". So, I'd vote against the nega-rep thing.

Onto the titular topic: I'm free! Free! Woohoo! I've been cleansed! Made holy, once again! I have done nothing wrong, ever and am FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! Yay!
Also: thanks!

[rpgdemon]

Am I just not phrasing things clearly? Once more, I do not think that everyone should be able to nega-rep, but rather the system should be retooled so that mods can give people a general idea of where they stand in terms of becoming near being banned. Rather than receiving infractions, a double post could be nega-repped.

As you said: Not many people really remember that it's there normally, so reworking the system to be useful really wouldn't be taking much away.

[synkr0nized]

I believe I get where you are coming from, rpgdemon, but with the infraction system serving a similar if not the same purpose there's not much motivation to re-tool/replace the rep system.

[bluestarultor]

Aside from that, we didn't always have an infraction system, or at least not that I knew of. We went just fine on warnings and temp-bans, and people, in general, knew that they were stepping on toes before their access was revoked, much less permanently.

[Meister]

It does sound like a good idea to give people a heads-up when they're about to get temp-banned from too many minor offenses / permabanned from too many infractions. Not necessarily via the rep system but in reminder posts or PMs.

[Bells]

We haven't considered any, but what do you have in mind?


Personally I am against nega-rep, for reference. It allows for an insidious method of trolling and flaming that is not immediately visible to mods/admins as well as last time we had a fully fledged rep system there were actual movements dedicated to preserving the heirarchy of the rep list which was in a word retarded.

In two words, fucking retarded.

In thr- well you get the point I'm trying to make.

That's pretty much the deal really...

Although to be honest, i prefer a system more like the one at the escapist forum, where users get "medals" or "awards" for certain simple milestones, although a system where you can award little "medals" to someone (displayed in the profile page) instead of simple points would be something just... you know, neat to have.