Something the Epilogue showed me...

[Sliths]

Sprites vs 3D models. I know you could be thinking, "wrong board, jackass", but gimme a minute.

I vaguely recall at one point nuklearpower had an article where Brian talked about how 3D Final Fantasy never really brought anything to gaming. I only vaguely remember the details of the article but if I recall the gist of it was that gaming lost something in the transition.

I never, ever agreed.

Until reading the epilogue.

Of course I have no complaints about the epilogue, the writing and the art was fantastic. If in any part of my post you think I made this thread to whine or moan, read that previous sentence. Multiple times if you need to.

It does strike me though that if 8-bit theater had been done hand drawn this entire time, I don't think I would have liked it as much. Maybe because I've grown used to using my imagination to "fill in the blanks" when it comes to the cast's expressions? I think it's kind of like the difference between reading a book or watching the film version: When you let someone else's imagination fill in the blanks, you miss out on letting your own do it for you.

In my head, something just feels iconic about the way BM would sometimes move his eyes. It even felt like there was a different "tone", if that word can in any way apply, in the characters "voice" when they raised their arms above their heads. With Thief, you knew it was because he was probably angry and calling someone out on something stupid. With RM, you know it was because he thought he had a great idea. With fighter, it was because he was happy.

They're all just simple pixels on a page. There is no movement, no tone of voice, no emotion at all. But it definitely wasn't just the words that carried everything. Or am I just some sorta psycho?

[rpgdemon]

Nah, I agree, and before even clicking this thread, thought that this is what it was gonna be about.

The epilogue is awesome, the art is awesome, et cetera, it's just odd how, even with the same person writing it and everything, everything feels -different- with non-pixel art.

[bluestarultor]

Part of it is because the emoting is turned down. Sprites, small sprites like the 8- and 16-bit era, need to emote and emote hard. Otherwise, it won't be visible. That's why the poses are so big and dynamic. Like stage makeup, they're super-flashy to be seen.

More realistic art just looks silly doing that. Real people don't emote that way, and you're at a higher level of realism.

It's the transition that highlights the differences. If hand-drawn, 8-Bit Theater could have been just as good, but it would have had a different feel.

[Magic_Marker]

In particular most of the characters seemed to have gained wisdom and perspective. All of 8-bit beforehand was about them not having those two things.

POS summed up Fighter's last statement comparing it to Calvin and Hobbes. This seems apt, even Fighter seems childlike and adventurous rather than dumb as bricks. It's not bad per se, just different. It give a different feel from the rest of the comics and I think it's approiate considering the fact that this is the last comic and a 3 year time lasp.

[Observer]

I agree, although only partially about the wisdom thing. It's more like they're starting to learn to "cope" with themselves. It's weird how the more restrained emoting from the hand drawn art probably helps carry this, although there's something about how it's funny to see the everyday suffering of the characters, but now that we're saying goodbye to them it's kind of nice to see them kind of "doin okay" for real, even a little bit. Maybe it wouldn't be as fun to know they were suffering without as there to laugh at their pain.

[Sliths]

Part of it is because the emoting is turned down. Sprites, small sprites like the 8- and 16-bit era, need to emote and emote hard. Otherwise, it won't be visible. That's why the poses are so big and dynamic. Like stage makeup, they're super-flashy to be seen.

More realistic art just looks silly doing that. Real people don't emote that way, and you're at a higher level of realism.

It's the transition that highlights the differences. If hand-drawn, 8-Bit Theater could have been just as good, but it would have had a different feel.



While that is true, in this case I would say the artist's ability to draw put a ton of emotion into the characters while using exaggeration. He does it really well in How I killed your master, too. People don't actually move around the way he draws them, but it works really well because he gets their emotions down solidly.

[Neni]

Sprites are just a completly different Medium than handdrawn art and convey something completly different. That's why I think Brian's decision to use Matt's art for this last page was a wise one. It was such an epic end like this. Just BECAUSE it was a little more serious and detailed than the spritework.

I am reminded on (and excuse me for bringing up that other game series again) a fan-analysis about why Zelda: Wind Waker was such a shock to many fans. This fan suggested, it was that the characters suddenly had distinct facial expressions, whereas OoT just made very limited use of those. People felt stiffled in their own interpretation of the character's feelings and this resulted in their rejection of the new style. That's a nice conclusion in my opinion.

I think the same thing happened here. Many people imagined White Mage and the Light Warriors to have different expressions and features. That's why a few of them initially felt disappointed, like the Epilogue was "Not true to the characters".

As for me, I always imagined White Mage to be a little more shy in her expressions and with long hair, but I like the now-Canon version of her a lot as well.

[MSperoni]

These were the initial options on White Mage's hair btw, I actually preferred the one on the lower right, and did a drawing of her and Black Mage with her with that hair-style, but Brian liked the top middle one the best so that's what I stuck with.

I really wanted everyone and everything to look "his" way. Well, at least the main people. Background characters like Akbar, Jeff, Hank, etc were up to my own devices.


The stuff about the sprites seemingly having more emotion because the readers have to project their own emotions on them is a really good observation. However the limits of sprites is they lack specific emotions and so the artist/writer is somewhat limited in expressing themselves. However due to the projected emotions on sprites, they become more "personal". Same thing I think goes with characters in books, and why when they're on the screen people are always disappointed. It's a battle you CAN'T win.

Only problem is the sprite's lack of specificity (especially 8-bit style) can make them seem incredibly dead. If Brian wasn't a good dialog writer this comic wouldn't have worked most of the time. I mean, if you go through some of the comics and just look at the panels without reading the dialog, a lot of the time they're just standing there. There's no emotion or expression or anything. In fact, I could see Brian's experience with this comic helping to make him into a good dialog writer, because most of the time that's the only thing holding this comic together.

[Neni]

These were the initial options on White Mage's hair btw, I actually preferred the one on the lower right, and did a drawing of her and Black Mage with her with that hair-style, but Brian liked the top middle one the best so that's what I stuck with.

I really wanted everyone and everything to look "his" way.


*Looks at the drawings*

SQUEEEE!!! ^^

Those are all so pretty...
The top-right one reminds me on Kingdom Hearts's Larxene for some reason...

Speroni, you are my Hero! Your style is so awesome... I would say "I hope I can draw like this one day" now, but since I needed almost 3 years to get halfway decent at drawing ANYTHING, this is probably never gonna happen. ^^;

[ThatPoorMessenger]

I would argue the bottom right looks a bit to "clean" for someone from a monastic order. They all would have worked, really. Although the top left is something I associate with male FF characters so...ehh, couldn't have imagined that one.
Although I cannot get my mind off those freckles...

[Amake]

I just realized your WM has a lot in common with Krillin from Dragonball. He also has that formation of six freckles, except they're forehead tattoos and stood on end. And they don't have noses.

It really threw me for about four seconds when I first saw the comic, but then I forgot all about it. :)

[MSperoni]

Krillan IS my favorite character in Dragonball...


But I wasn't really thinking of him for White Mage, I just thought she would be cute with freckles, they made her look more down to earth to me.

Also the reason I liked the lower right one is because it made her look more slick and kinda cut n' dry, like she has risen to the top of the White Mage Whatever Church and so she's all business-like and stuff. Though the shaggy do' is pretty cute too, so I'm okay with what Brian picked.

I'm not really all that into anime or jRPGs, and I'm kind of an old man like Brian, so I guess I'm still old-fashioned when it comes to what is "girl hair" and what is "boy hair" so the top left one just seems like girl hair to me, I would think if I saw it on a guy I would think "that's kinda girly" :D

Don't worry Neni, just keep practicing. What's important is that you have fun doing it. That seems cliche but that's true :D

[ThatPoorMessenger]

Also the reason I liked the lower right one is because it made her look more slick and kinda cut n' dry, like she has risen to the top of the White Mage Whatever Church and so she's all business-like and stuff. Though the shaggy do' is pretty cute too, so I'm okay with what Brian picked.Good point.
Edit: Although I didn't think she was a leader by the epilogue, or before it. : /

[Krylo]

Although the top left is something I associate with male FF characters so...ehh, couldn't have imagined that one.
Although I cannot get my mind off those freckles...

Are you sure you don't mean top right? The pony tail, with the hair dick thing?

'Cause that's pretty masculine.

[Neni]

Don't worry Neni, just keep practicing. What's important is that you have fun doing it. That seems cliche but that's true :D

Thank you. ^^ I know that you're right... I did get a lot better in the past years (looking at my dA Gallery, I now crinche at my first pics...) But I still totally fail at perspectives, most poses and, to some extend, proportions.

But, I guess, as long as I have fun I should just keep going. ^^;

That's a sketch, I recently made:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2559/emiuq.jpg

(And, yes, the character is supposed to look like a Fangirl who got her Mary Sue dreams granted, just in case you're wondering what I was on when I designed this. XD)


Uhm... yeah... any critique, so I know what to do better and how? Because I really, really want to get better. ^^;

[MSperoni]

Are you sure you don't mean top right? The pony tail, with the hair dick thing?

'Cause that's pretty masculine.

I'd agree with that one.


ED: I see below that's the one ya meant :D

[ThatPoorMessenger]

Are you sure you don't mean top right? The pony tail, with the hair dick thing?

'Cause that's pretty masculine.I do.

[Krylo]

I'd agree with that one.

It even has its own dick.


Though my hair, until recently, somewhat resembled a longer version of the top left (when I bothered combing).

...So.

[MSperoni]

Way to wear your hair like a girl, girl hair wearer!

[Krylo]

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.Can we hate just for the sake of hating?

[rpgdemon]

Way to wear your hair like a girl, girl hair wearer!

What of mine, then? XD

*Points to the left.*

[MSperoni]

I like girls with short hair so I can't really complain about guys who have long hair. I'm not one of those "status quo" hair-do people.


What of mine, then? XD

*Points to the left.*


That's a cool long-hair style. If mine was straight I'd grow it really long, but mine is curly so when it grows long it grows OUT and I have a huge 'fro.

ED: GODDAMMIT WHY DO I ALWAYS DERAIL TOPICS??

[rpgdemon]

Thank you. ^^ I know that you're right... I did get a lot better in the past years (looking at my dA Gallery, I now crinche at my first pics...) But I still totally fail at perspectives, most poses and, to some extend, proportions.

But, I guess, as long as I have fun I should just keep going. ^^;

That's a sketch, I recently made:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2559/emiuq.jpg

(And, yes, the character is supposed to look like a Fangirl who got her Mary Sue dreams granted, just in case you're wondering what I was on when I designed this. XD)


Uhm... yeah... any critique, so I know what to do better and how? Because I really, really want to get better. ^^;

That's not nearly as horrible as I was led to believe it would be! I was expecting some How I Didn't Kill Your Master all up-ins.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

I like girls with short hair so I can't really complain about guys who have long hair. I'm not one of those "status quo" hair-do people.Fun to know.
That's a cool long-hair style. If mine was straight I'd grow it really long, but mine is curly so when it grows long it grows OUT and I have a huge 'fro.Do it anyway, curly hair can be very fun, I store pens in mine, for example.
ED: GODDAMMIT WHY DO I ALWAYS DERAIL TOPICS??Because it's fun?

[MSperoni]

To Neni:

I don't think that's a bad picture at all :)

Proportion wise..hmm.. well I'm not quite sure what you were going for, if you were going for realistic then I guess it's off, but if you were going for purely manga there's not really any rules so long as everything kinda looks right.

If you want to get a better handle on anatomy and proportion it's better to study from real-world examples and real-life anatomical books an then slowly adjust it to a manga style. At least that's what I think works best.


To ThatPoorMessanger:

It IS fun. Except here the topic isn't something I'd like to see derailed, because it's actually interesting, but I'm not going to stop it either! :D

[ThatPoorMessenger]

It IS fun. Except here the topic isn't something I'd like to see derailed, because it's actually interesting, but I'm not going to stop it either! Worst part is, I forgot what the topic is.
Although:Tell me something, is this comic called How I Killed Your Crock of Shit?Will such a webcomic ever see the light of day?
Edit:Seriously, I think that'd be brilliant as a comedic webcomic series' title. It would probably have to directly parodise How I killed Your Master, however, and that severely limits scope. :sweatdrop

[Neni]

To Neni:

I don't think that's a bad picture at all :)

Proportion wise..hmm.. well I'm not quite sure what you were going for, if you were going for realistic then I guess it's off, but if you were going for purely manga there's not really any rules so long as everything kinda looks right.

If you want to get a better handle on anatomy and proportion it's better to study from real-world examples and real-life anatomical books an then slowly adjust it to a manga style. At least that's what I think works best.



Thank you... ^^; *blushing a little*
I was going for a Manga Style, because the whole thing (which is actually an yet undrawn comic I have been planning for years) is a half-deconstruction of the Magical Girl genre, but I felt like the length of the limbs are off... But I am convinced that the artist him/herself is always the worst judge for his/her own art, that's why I wanted to know about what it looks like to someone who has, you know, actual skill. XD

Yeah, I heard the anatomy-suggestion a lot yet and guess I should finally get around and do it sometime... but like so often when I want to do something, I somehow just wind up not doing it for no particularly reason... -_-;

As for topics derailing, I think that's actually my fault. I'm a mistress of derailing stuff. I manage to derail everything as soon as I open my mouth or put my fingers to the keyboard. It's like my curse. The curse of verbosity... X-x

[MSperoni]

That quote "How I Killed Your Crock of Shit" is a spin on a line from a show called "Darkplace".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLmjV8JSf4g

go to 45 seconds in :D

(it's poorly acted on purpose btw)

[ThatPoorMessenger]

To be honest Neni, all I can say I think is a bit weird is the size of the shoulders but I know too many unhealthily-underweight girls so I can't judge.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

That quote "How I Killed Your Crock of Shit" is a spin on a line from a show called "Darkplace".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLmjV8JSf4g

go to 45 seconds in :D

(it's poorly acted on purpose btw)Blocked on copyright grounds here. :ohdear:

[MSperoni]

awww

[ThatPoorMessenger]

Must leave the UK, just to watch one video! :D

[rpgdemon]

Thank you... ^^; *blushing a little*
I was going for a Manga Style, because the whole thing (which is actually an yet undrawn comic I have been planning for years) is a half-deconstruction of the Magical Girl genre, but I felt like the length of the limbs are off... But I am convinced that the artist him/herself is always the worst judge for his/her own art, that's why I wanted to know about what it looks like to someone who has, you know, actual skill. XD

Yeah, I heard the anatomy-suggestion a lot yet and guess I should finally get around and do it sometime... but like so often when I want to do something, I somehow just wind up not doing it for no particularly reason... -_-;

As for topics derailing, I think that's actually my fault. I'm a mistress of derailing stuff. I manage to derail everything as soon as I open my mouth or put my fingers to the keyboard. It's like my curse. The curse of verbosity... X-x

You wanna learn how to draw realistically, without style, before trying to learn a style, is the general advice given, I believe.

[MSperoni]

Yeah, everyone wants to draw in the style they like first though, that's natural because wherever you got that style is what inspired you to start drawing in the first place. When I first started drawing it was because I liked the art in the video game "Lunar" for Sega CD, and so I emulated that for awhile. Didn't seem to really get anywhere though because I was just focused on the superficial. I guess it's the equivalent of speaking a bunch of words that you think sound cool but you don't yet know the meaning of (like Janglish in Jpop songs).


But still, if you're just drawing casually for fun I dont really think bogging yourself down w/ rules and principles is necessary.. I guess it depends on where you wanna go with it. If you intend to be a professional artist someday then you gotta start learning all that boring stuff sooner or later :P

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Must leave the UK, just to watch one video! :D

Darkplace is absolutely worth it.

Proxy.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

But still, if you're just drawing casually for fun I dont really think bogging yourself down w/ rules and principles is necessary.. I guess it depends on where you wanna go with it.This. For example, were you to attempt to bog yourself down into an uncomfortable art-style for a webcomic, you will strangle it's updates.

[Neni]

Yeah, everyone wants to draw in the style they like first though, that's natural because wherever you got that style is what inspired you to start drawing in the first place. When I first started drawing it was because I liked the art in the video game "Lunar" for Sega CD, and so I emulated that for awhile. Didn't seem to really get anywhere though because I was just focused on the superficial. I guess it's the equivalent of speaking a bunch of words that you think sound cool but you don't yet know the meaning of (like Janglish in Jpop songs).


Yeah, I quickly noticed that too. I started out trying to draw according to "How to draw XY" articles in Magazines and books, but when none of them turned out looking anything like I wanted, I tried semi-tracing for a while instead, before I noticed certain patterns I would have never seen before, certain shapes I just didn't notice, things about eye-shaping and placement and the like. I tried drawing different styles and over time noticed how everything I tried out contributed to the development of my style. For example, I was drawing eyes horribly wrong because I failed to notice that the lids need to "connect" when expanded. I only noticed that when I drew some Zelda: Wind Waker style characters for a change. Then, I tried drawing some of my collegues and teachers in school and noticed that most of their haistyles actually translate out on paper to what I always considered to be typical Anime-haistyles. Next, I found out how to correctly do a non-awkward looking upper body by examing some Tetsuya Nomura Artwork of Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts... additionally, I examined the poses and, especially, coloring on my favorite pictures on Deviantart or Manga-Illustrations.

...The List continues like this and after some time I kinda pieced together what I can do now. It's not professional, but at least I can draw pictures now that look pleasant to my eye and that... pleases me. (Call the Redundant Department of Redundancy!!)

I guess just learning from one source is useless, because one needs to find what (s)he likes best and can do best, right?

You wanna learn how to draw realistically, without style, before trying to learn a style, is the general advice given, I believe.

In my last month in school, I drew portraits of all my teachers for a "farewell"-gift and tried to go more for realism than usually. I think this was a good choice, since I learned to draw more face-shapes and hairstyles through this. I, however, failed to draw the eyes any smaller than... approximately Rydia's eyes on my Avatar here. I encountered the same problem before, when I once tried to draw Kairi from KH on-style but couldn't get her eyes "Nomura-size". Everything under "Rydia-size" ends up looking akward and hollow and I don't know why. T-T



...See why I call myself a Mistress of Derailing? I just have to give myself a reason to talk and I'll talk until everyone around me is either asleep or bored to death. X-x

[ThatPoorMessenger]

...See why I call myself a Mistress of Derailing? I just have to give myself a reason to talk and I'll talk until everyone around me is either asleep or bored to death. X-xI'm not asleep or bored. Carry on. ^_^

[MSperoni]

Seems like you're going about it in a good way, not locking into a specific frame of reference and such.

One of these days things will "click" and you'll get your purely own way of doing things :) Took me a long time, then again the resources weren't what they are today (no How to Draw Manga books, no DA for reference, etc) so it might not take as long if you're committed to it ^_^

[ThatPoorMessenger]

One of these days things will "click" and you'll get your purely own way of doing things :) Took me a long time, then again the resources weren't what they are today (no How to Draw Manga books, no DA for reference, etc) so it might not take as long if you're committed to it ^_^All I could think of when I read that was "In my day...", shall we put you with the war vet.s? Still, good point there.
Neni, if you neeed a confidence boost (or don't, you'll get it anyway), at least what you can draw is legible, better than 80%ish of people. :dance:

[MSperoni]

Well it's true, "In my day" there really weren't any of those resources so it could theoretically take longer to develop.

I'm one of those "learn by doing" types but at the same time I don't ignore the value of resources and studying.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

Well it's true, "In my day" there really weren't any of those resources so it could theoretically take longer to develop.My first thoguht when you say theoretically is to test it. Must put down the test tube...however, yes, it probably would take longer to develop. But to have an art style at all, there would probably be some frame of reference just no aid in producing it.
I'm one of those "learn by doing" types but at the same time I don't ignore the value of resources and studying.Well, if we follow educational theory these days, a combination of both is best. However, educational theory has also stated kids should choose their own teachers. :rolleyes:

[Neni]

Me and coinfidence is a weird story. Sometimes I think I'm good, sometimes I think I am bad, then I remember that I'm a horrible judge of myself anyway and get someone else to comment on what I did. Like that.

It's true, I'm probably lucky to have so many references to learn from. If I remember just 10 years back, when not even Google had many pictures above 300x300 size...

For my oral final exams (which will ultimately seal my status as a "Girl out of school", even though I technically already am since the Written final exams) I took Arts as well, so I could write a scientific work on Manga. (I got graded a weak 2... because of the spelling mistakes. Apparenty I had 45. X.x According to my teacher, it would have been a solid 1 without those.)

Uhm, anyway, the point is, because my work was on Manga, I will probably have to draw "typical, generally known" Manga style (while, of course, remembering that Manga is in fact not a style, but merely another way of saying "A comic made in Japan". So actually, the correct term would be "drawing in a style typical for a majority of the japanese comic authors." But that's kinda a long thing to say...) before the testers during the Oral exams, in order to prove that I really can really "use" what I wrote about in praxis.
My teacher told me it only has to be a quick sketch, still, I will have to do it under time pressure... hopefully I'll be able to produce something halfway decent. ^^;

Hm... maybe I'll draw White Mage. Just as a little tribute to the comic. So I can say "8 bit theater helped me getting through my final exams". XD

[ThatPoorMessenger]

But that's kinda a long thing to say...No, it's not...

Also, would be nice to see more fan-art. Enough to keep us alive until another comic hits us. :D

[ShadowScar Knight]

I agree whole-heartedly. The pixelation of the comic itself, with stiff characters and little color slapped onto gradually more detailed backgrounds and surrounded by awesome effects is what gave 8BT its charm in the first place. Hand-drawn was just some eye candy to make the ending to the comic itself much more... lively? Colorful? Interesting? Something like it.

Of course, I'm a retronerd anyway, I wouldn't have minded if it were to have stayed 8-bit, but I loved how the epilogue was done nonetheless. The small references to the past pages and canon game easter eggs (Squall's gunblade and Cloud's buster sword anybody?) made it even more enjoyable.

[justice~!]

Of course, I'm a retronerd anyway, I wouldn't have minded if it were to have stayed 8-bit, but I loved how the epilogue was done nonetheless. The small references to the past pages and canon game easter eggs (Squall's gunblade and Cloud's buster sword anybody?) made it even more enjoyable.

Actually, this comment makes me think that the epilogue actually wouldn't have worked as well in 8-bit style - the reason being that Matt was responsible for a lot of the visual references we saw vs. them being in Brian's script in the first place (though I could be wrong).

[MSperoni]

Yeah, we figure I did about 80% of them.. The script was pretty tight. The only time there were references to anything in past comics were in the first pages with WM and RM in the restaurant. Mainly the waiters dressed in costume and the "Armoire/coat-rack" in panel 2, the 12 Dragon Nachos, and then I guess a couple of dialog things later. I think I actually surprised Brian with some of the things I put in :D (I don't know if he realize how big of a nerd I was about this comic ^_^)

There wasn't anything in the script that said "In the background we see Messenger and Hank running around.." or "On the top of the buildings perch the Law Ninja" etc

[ThatPoorMessenger]

There wasn't anything in the script that said "In the background we see Messenger and Hank running around.." or "On the top of the buildings perch the Law Ninja" etc *Speculates it consisted for "Don't write fuck you"*
In all seriousness, again, it was a brilliant epilogue.
Yes, 8bit's original style gave it it's flair, and a lot of it's charm, masses of it, in fact.
However, the art we saw in the epilogue allows so much more freedom in what can be done, how a story can be adapted, how characters can be canvased.

But, the entire idea of continuing it is only hypothetical, isn't it? ;)

[Carteeg_Struve]

I just loved the concept that since Kain from IV had return from the moon and the job-board had references from VII on up on it, the world itself had moved on from the 8-bit era into more advanced resolutions.

I can only assume the events of V and VI had already gone by.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

I just loved the concept that since Kain from IV had return from the moonThat wasn't Kain, just a generic Dragoon, I'm afraid. Although he bares a lot of parallels with Kain.

[Amake]

I'd say the dialogue was pretty much the one redeeming quality of the comic. The sprites, if I recall the ancient FAQ properly, came out of a need to get away with drawing as little as possible. Brian's great with dialogue, the comic is like 95% talking heads and it works, but the epilogue is about the first time it has been visually interesting.

You know, IMO.

[rpgdemon]

So, um, what -was- that spell Black Mage cast? I feel like I'm missing something.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

So, um, what -was- that spell Black Mage cast? I feel like I'm missing something.It was a reference to the fact it is hell to set up a group or generally, do a lot of things in FFXI, I assume.

[Carteeg_Struve]

That wasn't Kain, just a generic Dragoon, I'm afraid. Although he bares a lot of parallels with Kain.

Eh. Close enough. Maybe he was part of the group that replaced the "real heroes" of FFIV (like how our "heroes" replaced the Real Light Warriors).

To be shown in the future episodes of 16-bit Theater. ;)

[Neni]

Eh. Close enough. Maybe he was part of the group that replaced the "real heroes" of FFIV (like how our "heroes" replaced the Real Light Warriors).

To be shown in the future episodes of 16-bit Theater. ;)

Wasn't (generic) Dragoon actually the one who kept Muffin as a pet, firmly believing her to be a parrot?

Don't compare him to Kain! Kain is way too Emo to be as... not-emoly-weird as that. O.o;

He also could never replace him!

--Although... Final Fantasy IV with 8bit-Theater characters... somehow...

hm... Having Fighter in Cecil's role would be interesting...

Fighter with Silver Lipstick comes to mind. XD

...OMG. Black Mage in Rydia's "dress" (Or rather "Expanded Swimsuit")

But wait... 12-years old Rydia could cast White Magic as well, making her a RED mage summoner...
...That would probably make Deborah "Young Rydia"...

...That's incredibly disturbing. X-x

[ThatPoorMessenger]

...OMG. Black Mage in Rydia's "dress" (Or rather "Expanded Swimsuit") Remember what happened last time he removed his hat? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/06/11/episode-041-it-just-got-weird-in-survivor-8-bit-style-part-6/)

[Neni]

Remember what happened last time he removed his hat? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/06/11/episode-041-it-just-got-weird-in-survivor-8-bit-style-part-6/)


It'd be fine. He'd wear a green wig in a way which also makes it cover his face. :D

[ThatPoorMessenger]

It'd be fine. He'd wear a green wig in a way which also makes it cover his face. :DWell, that's part one dealt with, now, how does he fit into it?

[7days]

Very carefully

Edit: I just couldn't help myself.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

Very carefully

Edit: I just couldn't help myself.I actually laughed.

[Kalbelgarion]

"Am I drawing a crock of shit? Tell me something, is this comic called How I Killed Your Crock of Shit?"

I always assumed that was something Brian yelled at you over the phone.

[ThatPoorMessenger]

I always assumed that was something Brian yelled at you over the phone.Nah, that'd be "Are you drawing a crack of shit..." Unless Brian likes pretending to be Matt. :raise:

[Sliths]

ED: GODDAMMIT WHY DO I ALWAYS DERAIL TOPICS??

I thought my thread here died like several days ago. Coming back to see it at 7 pages, I knew someone had to do some freaking weird.

Besides, my going theory is that every single nerd out there that can't draw(like me) wishes they could. So I'm sure this thread'll be an interesting read for me later.

Those were also some nice concept faces. Speaking of which, I think you nailed BM.

...If Brian wasn't a good dialog writer this comic wouldn't have worked most of the time.

This is also true. My best memory of this comic will always be when he broke style and just had a dozen dragons say "Fuck you" to RM. It was a beautiful, simplistic answer to a group of people who usually discuss everything at length.

And honestly, I've read a few pages of those other so-called "classic sprite comics", and I just don't get it. It looks like someone pasted some megaman pictures together and asked Fighter to write it. I just couldn't get into them.

But just to be sure, I really am not knocking your art style with this thread. I liked the epilogue. But back to my real argument--3D vs sprites--, my mind set has always been "If they can do it in 2D, they can do it in 3D". For a long time that just felt like the right opinion to have.

But looking back on the internet, it's not like anyone ever makes cheesy flash/youtube movies with a 3D model of mario when they can use sprites. Sure, sprites are easier to manipulate for those not versed with modeling software, and when it comes to older generation 3D games the models themselves were terribly low in detail and resolution.

But at the same time it feels like it's often done because the sprites feel more expressive than their 3D counter parts. Part of it may be because, due to the limitations of angles in 2D games, the artists are forced to convey all expressions on one side so the viewer can see them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that old style sprites give off a "less is more" vibe to me, and that's not all imagination.

Like someone mentioned earlier about The Wind Waker...I feel the same way. Ocarina of Time, despite it's dated graphics, felt more moving to me in it's cut scenes. Both games had the same direction style with different art directions. But Ocarina of Time often left Link's expression as a minimal rotation of various "states": Blank, surprised, angry, scared. While on the other hand, The Wind Waker's Link, which Miyamoto loved for it's expressive style, felt like it characterized Link too much, which is fine, but also took some of the interpretation out of the experience.

[Neni]

And honestly, I've read a few pages of those other so-called "classic sprite comics", and I just don't get it. It looks like someone pasted some megaman pictures together and asked Fighter to write it. I just couldn't get into them.


I feel the same about those. When I first found 8 bit theater, I couldn't believe what I was seeing: A sprite comic with actual... quality!

That was like... something I never believed would actually exist.

Most people simply don't know how to handle sprites AND write dialouge. But since Brian has talent at both, he's gone and done it.


Like someone mentioned earlier about The Wind Waker...I feel the same way. Ocarina of Time, despite it's dated graphics, felt more moving to me in it's cut scenes. Both games had the same direction style with different art directions. But Ocarina of Time often left Link's expression as a minimal rotation of various "states": Blank, surprised, angry, scared. While on the other hand, The Wind Waker's Link, which Miyamoto loved for it's expressive style, felt like it characterized Link too much, which is fine, but also took some of the interpretation out of the experience.

Exactly. It's all up to how a person likes the characterized personality or not.

I think I was lucky that TWW Link really nailed my mental image of a 12-years old Link from the very beginning, so I never really had a problem with his personality, actually I even really liked it. But I can see why he bugged some people. He seemed a little naive and overenthusiastic at times.