The E3 Thread

[krogothwolf]

Why would only one handheld being on the market scare you? The Gameboy Advance certainly wasn't any worse for it.

Worried about Nintendo getting complacent and sending out shit. Current management won't let that happen but things can change. Nintendo is a great gaming company and usually does treat its customers well with only a few weird things. Like the friend code, or a really weird digital distribution system, granted it works well since the chances of the Wii crashing are moot. I left mine off for about 6 months and still works like a charm when I played monster hunter tri. But I worry about them getting a monopoly on the hand held market and it changing for the worse is all.

[bluestarultor]

My DS and Wii are currently seeing limited use. I love the DS, but the last game I got was Zelda, don't really play the DS as much, my PSP sees almost no use now, actually it hasn't seen any use since my wedding? Maybe longer. I'm not trying to bash the 3DS. I just think it's odd that Blue and Snake are advocating Sony abandoning the Hand Held business because they can't beat the DS/DSi/3DS.

I agree Nintendo has a great record of producing good equipment, even the Virtual Boy's hardware worked great. But they just seem to be cramming more and more into tinier stuff I get worried that sooner or later they'll bit of more then they can chew.

I hope Sony develops something great for the PSP2 or whatever they'll call it, having only one real hand held on the market scares me.

Edit @ Blues: Actually a Demo unit is usually developed with more care then something that gets chugged out of an assembly line, so yeah, the final product has a chance to have problems a demo unit didn't because of that.

Krogo, let me leave it at this. You're mistaking mass production for sloppiness. Yes, mistakes can happen in mass production, such as the hairline crack on old PSP units. On the other hand, such flaws are minor, and do not affect the operation of the unit, or else there would be a mass recall. If the 3D of the 3DS does not work, there will be a mass recall and the problem will be fixed.

There is NO reason to believe with our manufacturing technology that every 3DS produced will house a miniature nuclear bomb that will detonate and kill you and everyone you love as soon as you flip on the power. We're capable of precision far less than the thickness of a human hair, and in fact, much of our technology relies on distances less than the width of a smoke particle simply to operate.

The idea that a production model is not going to work when in fact they are designed to be improvements of a fully-functional test model is statistically obscure enough to safely be called wrong.

[Kim]

All that, and Nintendo has a much better track record than Microsoft and Sony with such things. See: Red Ring of Death

[Doc ock rokc]

All that, and Nintendo has a much better track record than Microsoft and Sony with such things. See: Red Ring of Death

The Red ring was a Mass production error. It kinda doesn't help your argument.

[Jagos]

Worried about Nintendo getting complacent and sending out shit. Current management won't let that happen but things can change. Nintendo is a great gaming company and usually does treat its customers well with only a few weird things. Like the friend code, or a really weird digital distribution system, granted it works well since the chances of the Wii crashing are moot. I left mine off for about 6 months and still works like a charm when I played monster hunter tri. But I worry about them getting a monopoly on the hand held market and it changing for the worse is all.

There was at least 5 years that Nintendo had the gaming market to itself. The games that Nintendo produced were of questionable quality.

Let's also remember that they single handedly resurrected gaming from the brink of destruction in the 1980s. How they treated 3rd parties was basically crap but they got better.

Finally, let's remember... They did create the Wii. They got people to follow them, not the other way around (Sony and Microsoft)

Competition does fail and someone, I'm sure, will step in IF Sony steps out of the handheld market. But for now, they are innovating like they never did with the Pocket and Color. Looks like the Virtual Boy project has finally paid off.

[Solid Snake]

Worried about Nintendo getting complacent and sending out shit.

This is exactly what Sony should hope for. "Giving up" on the industry temporarily is really just another way of saying that Sony should "give up" until Nintendo inevitably becomes complacent on its throne and Sony can jump right back in a few years from now with fresh ideas and a brand new, innovative handheld design that simply couldn't happen now.

When I advocate Sony "gives up," I'm not advocating Sony give up forever. I'm just advocating that Sony let the PSP rest for a few years, because in the next three years or so there's no way it can feasibly introduce a product that's going to wrestle away significant capital from 3DS. The 3DS is going to have every advantage imaginable for the foreseeable future. Sony's best option is to hope that your worst-case scenario comes true. Nintendo sits on its throne for a few years, stops treating third-party developers quite as well, gets used to being #1 and introduces half-hearted 3DS "upgrades." Then once the dust has settled Sony can jump right back in and third-party developers will be happy to see them. Just like they were when the PS1 was introduced and started to compete against the N64.

It's all cyclical, like the Chinese dynasties of yore. Nintendo was pressured to innovate with the Wii and the DS when it seemed to be down and out of the count. Sony's now entering a similar downturn, at least in regards to handhelds. The worst thing Sony could do is eagerly march out a copycat 3DS style PSP2 handheld in a desperate effort to "compete." If Sony has a legitimately new and exciting idea for the PSP, one that stands a chance in hell of making a profit against a well-entrenched 3DS, then by all the means, it should introduce it.

Assuming it doesn't? It can wait a few years for Nintendo to become complacent and reenter the market once Nintendo's hit a rut and Sony can be seen as the innovators. The alternative would just cost Sony a lot more money and wield virtually no profits, particularly in a recession that's looking as bad as this one.

[krogothwolf]

I know Nintendo isn't the same as Sony and Microsoft. But Look what happened to Sony after the PS2. They got all high and mighty and started being idiot about the Console Market and assumed they would win by default. Plus, the Red Ring of Death was, from the sounds of it was problem with Mass Production and a piss poor heat sink.

[Jagos]

Nintendo - N64, and the loss of the Final Fantasy franchise.

Gods, did I hate that damn controller.

If a game company rides on its laurels, competition stirs to get them out. As SS said, if they rest, someone nips. It's the way of the world.

[krogothwolf]

yeah but that period between rest and nip sucks man, it really does.

[Solid Snake]

yeah but that period between rest and nip sucks man, it really does.

This is a necessity of the business cycle. (And it doesn't always suck: I was quite pleased overall with the PS2's era of utter one-sided dominance.)

I think we're both actually seeking the same goal, krogoth: We both want Nintendo's competitors, most notably Sony, to succeed. We just have different definitions of "success." You're thinking short-term, and I'm thinking long-term. I want Sony to rest long enough to recalibrate and concoct a strong plan to compete with the 3DS in the future, long after the hype dies. The alternative of actually blatantly copying the 3DS with a new PSP model would be disastrous financially for Sony, and could effectively eliminate Sony's ability to compete with Nintendo in the long-term future.

EDIT: I should say for the Nintendo fanboy crowd that when I say I want "Nintendo's competitors to succeed," I don't mean that as a slight against Nintendo itself. I suppose the better phrase would be that I desire the success of competition in general -- a monopoly is (almost) always a bad thing. In regards to handhelds, Nintendo just happens to be Goliath at the moment.

[Arcanum]

Whelp this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/6/16/) about sums up the conferences of the big 3. (Forgive me if any of you posted this already, I don't feel liking wading through all the pages I haven't read)

[Azisien]

Whelp, it pretty much did.

[krogothwolf]

Whelp this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/6/16/) about sums up the conferences of the big 3. (Forgive me if any of you posted this already, I don't feel liking wading through all the pages I haven't read)

Yeah, no...that's just Penny-Arcade being Penny-Arcade.

[bluestarultor]

Yeah, no...that's just Penny-Arcade being Penny-Arcade.

It's sad, really. People have paid money for that.

[phil_]

EDIT: I should say for the Nintendo fanboy crowd that when I say I want "Nintendo's competitors to succeed," I don't mean that as a slight against Nintendo itself. I suppose the better phrase would be that I desire the success of competition in general -- a monopoly is (almost) always a bad thing. In regards to handhelds, Nintendo just happens to be Goliath at the moment.Responding more to the sentiment of this than the actual text, two generations of lagging sales led to a Nintendo console that has, thus far, had three traditional Mario titles, will soon have two Metroid titles and two Zeldas, revived Sin and Punishment, revived side-scrolling platformers on consoles, and generally forced Nintendo to come out with their A-game (for the most part... Wii Music aside...) for the last four years. If, on the handheld front, Sony waits until they can offer something to put the fear of God into the 3DS instead of just trying to catch up, it will lead to greater software from Nintendo in response.

Viva capitalismo, I guess. This post may be a bit too idealistic... oh well.

[stefan]

Responding more to the sentiment of this than the actual text, two generations of lagging sales led to a Nintendo console that has, thus far, had three traditional Mario titles, will soon have two Metroid titles and two Zeldas, revived Sin and Punishment, revived side-scrolling platformers on consoles, and generally forced Nintendo to come out with their A-game (for the most part... Wii Music aside...) for the last four years. If, on the handheld front, Sony waits until they can offer something to put the fear of God into the 3DS instead of just trying to catch up, it will lead to greater software from Nintendo in response.

Viva capitalismo, I guess. This post may be a bit too idealistic... oh well.

so basically, Nintendo is the college student who only does their best work when someone's lit a fire under their ass and everything is on the line?


Let's also remember that they single handedly resurrected gaming from the brink of destruction in the 1980s. How they treated 3rd parties was basically crap but they got better.

to be fair, this is mostly because unrestricted third party releases was one of the critical contributing reasons for The Crash.

[Kim]

so basically, Nintendo is the college student who only does their best work when someone's lit a fire under their ass and everything is on the line?

More like that's every company ever.

[bluestarultor]

so basically, Nintendo is the college student who only does their best work when someone's lit a fire under their ass and everything is on the line?

That goes for business in general. There's a reason we have protections against monopolies. If only one company is standing, they're eventually going to get lazy and pull up a recliner.

[EVILNess]

You know what I would love to see standard on a handheld? Some kind of ability to project to a TV as a standard feature. That would be neat. Maybe shoehorn an HDMI out or something on the 3DS.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I don't see why it couldn't be standard. It's almost there now since the PSP can be hooked up to the TV.

[Bells]

You know what I would love to see standard on a handheld? Some kind of ability to project to a TV as a standard feature. That would be neat. Maybe shoehorn an HDMI out or something on the 3DS.

The PSP does that.

Also, guys... the PSP is not Sony main focus. It exists for 2 reasons.

1- To serve as an alternative to Nintendo, for people who like Sony franchises and a Different set of hardware and software that aims at a different demographic. Because, in gaming, you can actually have multiple demographics and core groups and it's impossible to please them all.

2- It brings in profit. If Sony was to give up of the PSP, it would loose profit. That's not a good thing. Also, it's profit that would go to Microsoft or nintendo if the PSP wasn't there.

the PSP brand It's not a blackhole of debt. It's not going to kill Sony or the Playstation brand. It's just less profitable than the DS. but in heart, they are not different beasts. Sony released the Go, it failed. Sometimes that happens. Nintendo released the DSXL and the DSi fully knowing that the 3DS would be revealed just a few months later and that the 3DS would play all DS and DSi games, that the DS and DSi won't play 3DS games.

See? Because Nintendo is n#1 and people love it, it's all good. Because the Go Failed and Sony is #2, people want to kill it with fire. Two shapes of the same fuckup.

[bluestarultor]

The PSP does that.

Also, guys... the PSP is not Sony main focus. It exists for 2 reasons.

1- To serve as an alternative to Nintendo, for people who like Sony franchises and a Different set of hardware and software that aims at a different demographic. Because, in gaming, you can actually have multiple demographics and core groups and it's impossible to please them all.

2- It brings in profit. If Sony was to give up of the PSP, it would loose profit. That's not a good thing. Also, it's profit that would go to Microsoft or nintendo if the PSP wasn't there.

the PSP brand It's not a blackhole of debt. It's not going to kill Sony or the Playstation brand. It's just less profitable than the DS. but in heart, they are not different beasts. Sony released the Go, it failed. Sometimes that happens. Nintendo released the DSXL and the DSi fully knowing that the 3DS would be revealed just a few months later and that the 3DS would play all DS and DSi games, that the DS and DSi won't play 3DS games.

See? Because Nintendo is n#1 and people love it, it's all good. Because the Go Failed and Sony is #2, people want to kill it with fire. Two shapes of the same fuckup.

Not really. There's a difference between, "BWAHAHAHA! You just bought a new system that was a slight improvement on a system you already had and now we're releasing an even BETTER one!" and "We have this really great system with a feature you guys screamed for and OH GOD, WHY ARE YOU POUNDING IT WITH A HAMMER? WE GAVE YOU WHAT YOU SAID YOU WANTED! WHYYYYYYY?"

And before anyone calls me a fanboy, I love the DS. I also love my PlayStation consoles. I'd say the same thing in any configuration. Business tactics are business tactics.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

The key reason Go was hated was it's price tag. It didn't need to cost $250. It could've been just $199 or even $225 would've been fine.

[Bells]

The key reason Go was hated was it's price tag. It didn't need to cost $250. It could've been just $199 or even $225 would've been fine.

I would add the Slow growing library as the Second reason. Sony screwed up... they should've done a survey of some kind to pinpoint the 30-50 titles their fanbased wanted the most as digital content and have that at day 1. And their "convert your physical to digital" plan never really took off.

But, yeah, the price is clearly the number 1 problem.

ot really. There's a difference between, "BWAHAHAHA! You just bought a new system that was a slight improvement on a system you already had and now we're releasing an even BETTER one!" and "We have this really great system with a feature you guys screamed for and OH GOD, WHY ARE YOU POUNDING IT WITH A HAMMER? WE GAVE YOU WHAT YOU SAID YOU WANTED! WHYYYYYYY?"

And before anyone calls me a fanboy, I love the DS. I also love my PlayStation consoles. I'd say the same thing in any configuration. Business tactics are business tactics. I don't mind the DS. Have no problem with it. I just prefer Sony's library of PSP titles.

But i didn't liked when Nintendo came with Motion+, cause i already knew they had the technology for it back when they first announced the Wii. The same way when now they give you the DSi with games that only work on the DSi and just a few months later, they give you the 3DS... wich has everything the DSi had, and more.

Sure, nintendo provides great content and hardware... but sometimes their business practices really feels like a kick in the balls. I learned that being a Nintendo early adopter hardly ever pays out.

Also, quick note... Metal Gear Rising is also on the PS3. check the trailer, the PS3 logo is there. So, there it goes another quick jab at Microsoft.

[EVILNess]

It's not standard on the PSP you have to buy a special cord. I mean right out of the box, I can take some cords I have lying around and plug it into my TV.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I would add the Slow growing library as the Second reason. Sony screwed up... they should've done a survey of some kind to pinpoint the 30-50 titles their fanbased wanted the most as digital content and have that at day 1. And their "convert your physical to digital" plan never really took off.

But, yeah, the price is clearly the number 1 problem.


A fear of making Piracy easier and the Go's low says is likely why the "rip your UMDs" plan never took off. though the Go has only been out for barely a year now. Maybe it's too soon to say it never took off quite yet.

[krogothwolf]

And before anyone calls me a fanboy, I love the DS. I also love my PlayStation consoles. I'd say the same thing in any configuration. Business tactics are business tactics.

FANBOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FANBOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think anyone in NPF is really a fanboy to any one of the systems or big players.

I thought the PSPGo was cool, but I never had the money or time to warrent buying it. I dislike Nintendo's DS strategy. At least in terms of DS-DSi. The 3DS is more significant improvement then any of the others. I do wonder how much of the DS overall sales is people who bought one of each. I know 7 people who have at least one of each.

[Bells]

Nah i would really be surprised if Sony had any big plans for the Go. E3 passed by and this time they barely talked about it. Not a word! And to push the go they would have to implement something big for it. I hardly see that happening. Nintendo already had the market with a deathgrip -before- the 3DS, that won't change right now regardless of what tricks sony pulls out.

I think there is a somewhat chaotic balance between Sony and Nintendo right now, if you think about it... Nintendo is strong in the Console Market, but Sony has the market. While Sony is strong is the handheld market, but Nintendo has the market.

Sure, the 360 is still a powerfull brand in the Western market, but then again, the real difference between 360 and PS3 is personal preference to their Libraries and specifics.

I wouldn't compare Kinect to Move right now, but i do like the Move better, because it already showed it can do everything Kinect do, plus, it is already working on Big Brand games, something Kinect hasn't delivered yet.

[ZAKtheGeek]

You know what I would love to see standard on a handheld? Some kind of ability to project to a TV as a standard feature. That would be neat. Maybe shoehorn an HDMI out or something on the 3DS.
You're asking for this on the DS? Come on, think about it. That makes no sense. It was TWO screens, and one of them's a touch screen. And now this 3D thing is supposed to be a draw. It's designed with things you can't just port directly into your TV... and that makes a lot of sense, I suppose.

[Bells]

actually, now that you mention it... yeah, while the PSP is just a portable version of console gaming, the DS is actually a whole different experience that wouldn't really work on a TV screen. Love it or Hate it, you got to hand it to Nintendo for nailing that one.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Then again Sony never really seemed to want to push the Go on anyone (marketing it as a choice between digital and hard copy).

[Jagos]

FANBOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FANBOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think anyone in NPF is really a fanboy to any one of the systems or big players.

I thought the PSPGo was cool, but I never had the money or time to warrent buying it. I dislike Nintendo's DS strategy. At least in terms of DS-DSi. The 3DS is more significant improvement then any of the others. I do wonder how much of the DS overall sales is people who bought one of each. I know 7 people who have at least one of each.

Yay for the late adopters (ie me. :D)

I think there is a somewhat chaotic balance between Sony and Nintendo right now, if you think about it... Nintendo is strong in the Console Market, but Sony has the market. While Sony is strong is the handheld market, but Nintendo has the market.

O_O
-_-
O_O

Bwuh?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I'm not sure I can wait on 3DS lite so I'll probably weaken and get the fat 3DS instead.

[BitVyper]

I don't really care about which consoles people like or anything, but I love Shigeru Miyamoto. It's like he's Tony Stark and the other head guys are Justin Hammer.

[EVILNess]

I'm probably going to wait my standard year before I get the 3DS, wait for the first price drop. Still so many games to beat on the DS, and then there is the lack of general funds I tend to suffer from.

I see the 3DS being about $150-200 at launch though, which might be tempting for me if I do have the money.

Nah, I'll probably wait the year. It will give the library a chance to expand and hopefully give Nintendo enough time to announce the 3DS lite.

[Yrcrazypa]

Pokemon Platinum is still the only game I have on the DS, I'll probably end up waiting until the third model of the 3DS comes out, and then get the second one. You all know it's going to happen.

[Kim]

Pokemon Platinum is still the only game I have on the DS, I'll probably end up waiting until the third model of the 3DS comes out, and then get the second one. You all know it's going to happen.

Yeah. I mean, it happens with every console ever. PS3s of various hard drive sizes, and 360s, too. Plus, the PS3 slim, and the Xbox 360 slim with built in wifi and ARGH WHY'D I BUY AT RELEASE, PSPGo, etc. You're right. I'm just confused as to why people focus on Nintendo doing it. In fact, I think the only console that hasn't seen a "Better Version" released this generation is the Wii, which just got a different color. Yeah, the Wii got Motion+, but Motion+ is far cheaper than a DSi or PSPGo.

[Arcanum]

Nintendo wins. (http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3ds-confirmed-176652.phtml)

[Yrcrazypa]

Yeah. I mean, it happens with every console ever. PS3s of various hard drive sizes, and 360s, too. Plus, the PS3 slim, and the Xbox 360 slim with built in wifi and ARGH WHY'D I BUY AT RELEASE, PSPGo, etc. You're right. I'm just confused as to why people focus on Nintendo doing it. In fact, I think the only console that hasn't seen a "Better Version" released this generation is the Wii, which just got a different color. Yeah, the Wii got Motion+, but Motion+ is far cheaper than a DSi or PSPGo.

I'm not focusing on Nintendo, I just don't have a PS3 or a 360 because I don't give a damn about them. Until they can release games that I care about, I'll stick with my PC, with a little bit of DS and Wii on the side.

[Donomni]

Yeah. I mean, it happens with every console ever. PS3s of various hard drive sizes, and 360s, too. Plus, the PS3 slim, and the Xbox 360 slim with built in wifi and ARGH WHY'D I BUY AT RELEASE, PSPGo, etc. You're right. I'm just confused as to why people focus on Nintendo doing it. In fact, I think the only console that hasn't seen a "Better Version" released this generation is the Wii, which just got a different color. Yeah, the Wii got Motion+, but Motion+ is far cheaper than a DSi or PSPGo.

I think one of the reasons is that Sony essentially downgraded the PS3 eventually after launch.

I mean, PS2s are dirt cheap, true, but dropping compatibility was a pretty big downgrade.

Aside from the PSPGo and the 360 Slim's Wifi, only the DSi has had significant changes to it's original DS model, what with built-in memory and the ability to download games from a shop. And now they're springing 3DS, just weeks after the DSiXL?

Other companies may do it, but Nintendo's a fucking master at it right now(But only with handhelds, natch).

[Kim]

At E3 this year, there is an office door labeled "Dr. Andonuts"...

Fuck you, Nintendo. FUCK YOU

[bluestarultor]

I think one of the reasons is that Sony essentially downgraded the PS3 eventually after launch.

I mean, PS2s are dirt cheap, true, but dropping compatibility was a pretty big downgrade.

Aside from the PSPGo and the 360 Slim's Wifi, only the DSi has had significant changes to it's original DS model, what with built-in memory and the ability to download games from a shop. And now they're springing 3DS, just weeks after the DSiXL?

Other companies may do it, but Nintendo's a fucking master at it right now(But only with handhelds, natch).

But they did it to cut costs. The Emotion chip was adding a significant amount to production and it still didn't provide 100% compatibility. Software emulation was cheaper, but even less compatible, and they decided to pull the resources being dedicated to improving it to other venues.

Really, it's smarter on their part. They're still selling PS2s. They needed to get the price down on the PS3 to help foster market saturation. Now maybe they could start adding it back after they've finalized everything with the Move. They probably won't, unless they finally stop PS2 production, but they could.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

If Nintendo lives to it's word about revamping the water temple, I will buy that game day 1.

[Solid Snake]

It really wasn't a huge issue for me to have both a PS2 and a PS3 hooked up to my computer. (Hell, my 3-way USB port still has enough room for one more system, though nothing else on the market now appeals much.)

So no, I guess I can't blame Sony for dropping the price of the PS3 by removing backwards compatibility. It'd be more convenient to have a single system play everything, of course. But I'd also lose all my save data via my old-school memory card(s) if I attempted to play PS2 and PS1 games on my PS3, so I'd probably have kept the PS2 plugged in even if the PS3 were backwards compatible. (Unless they had a PS3 with a slot for PS1/2 memory cards.)

[bluestarultor]

It really wasn't a huge issue for me to have both a PS2 and a PS3 hooked up to my computer. (Hell, my 3-way USB port still has enough room for one more system, though nothing else on the market now appeals much.)

So no, I guess I can't blame Sony for dropping the price of the PS3 by removing backwards compatibility. It'd be more convenient to have a single system play everything, of course. But I'd also lose all my save data via my old-school memory card(s) if I attempted to play PS2 and PS1 games on my PS3, so I'd probably have kept the PS2 plugged in even if the PS3 were backwards compatible. (Unless they had a PS3 with a slot for PS1/2 memory cards.)

There's a USB peripheral that lets you hook up a memory card, but for some reason it only works for PS1 memory cards.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Sonic Colors for Wii

Source:
http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-jimpressions-of-sonic-colors-176708.phtml

Game Play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAZTD9IHgic

Opinion:

Sonic Unleashed 2 expect it's all day time style stages and no werehog. Looks good so far along with S4 and the Color Power up gimmick looks fun.

Also Sonic 4 is still looking good. Please excuse the crappy video feed.
http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-sonic-runs-a-lot-in-sonic-4-that-is-a-good-thing-176693.phtml

[mudah.swf]

...I don't know about Marvel vs Capcom 3. The more I hear about it the more sceptical I become. I was really hyped for it too. Oh well, I'll have Blazblue CS well before then.

THIS JUST IN: According to Andriasang the 3DS offers the ability to install games!

Nintendo has packed 3DS with so many features that it's not even promoting some of the major ones. Today's Nikkei detailed one such silent feature: software install.

According to the paper, gamers will be able copy 3DS software to internal memory. Multiple games can be stored with the system in this fashion. You'll be able to switch between games by selecting a title from the system's main menu.

The paper notes that due to this feature, there'll be no need to swap cartridges. When outside of the home, you won't need to carry game cartridges with you.

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/06/17/3ds_software_install/

[Ecks]

I'm in ur 3DS, installan ur games.

HOSHIT YES.

...who am I kidding, I'll still carry it around...

[Jagos]

-Nintendo owns the world-
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/06/17/3ds_software_install/

...

I have just decided on my next console.

[ZAKtheGeek]

IGN: So we hear you can store games digitally on 3DS. That's cool, right?

Miyamoto: What the hell are you crazy mofos talking about? (laughs) (http://wii.ign.com/articles/110/1100039p1.html)

[Kyanbu The Legend]

AWW :(

3DS is still pretty damn good though. I'm looking forward to the Starfox 64 remake in GCN graphics.

[Donomni]

It'd be more convenient to have a single system play everything, of course.

But it only does everything!... except when it doesn't.

I love that ad campaign, but it's so wrong on the one part it really doesn't need to be.

ANYWAYS, is there really confirmation on a 3DS Starfox, and I somehow missed it?

EDIT: AWESOME FFXIV SHIT. (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3179972)

I started off by experimenting with character creation, which according to my tour guide had been completely revamped since the alpha release. The character creation allowed me to quickly piece together a character from an impressive variety of pieces, often previewing them side-by-side at each junction. I was told that there were many more customization options than in the alpha, and that more should be added by the time the final game is released.

So, like, more unique characters than FFXI's "EVERYONES A CLONE" look? Sweet.

In addition to running them through with my spear, the Lancer had a number of other abilities on the Action Bar on the interface to play with. One allowed my attacks to drain health from foes, while other techniques more elaborately perforated my enemies or temporarily boosted my stats. Similar to the recent Final Fantasy XIII, every action used a portion of a constantly-building stamina bar, and as long as I had stamina to spare I was free to attack or use abilities.

According to our tour guide, the battle system has been completely remade in the months since the alpha test started, all as a response to player feedback, making it faster and more fun than it was in the alpha. In addition to the battle system, the game's UI was also given a complete overhaul, with a cleaner look and location-sensitive commands.

More than just taking a page from the good parts of FFXIII, SE is apparently listening to feedback, which, if you knew SE, is fucking crazy.

While party play will of course be encouraged, the game is designed with more of a solo play focus in mind. Additionally, quests called "Guildleves" will help players level up, improve their skills and earn a living, all at the same time. These quests are designed with short play sessions in mind, usually 30 minutes or less. Transport around Eorzea is also promised to be quick and convenient, and players can change jobs in the field simply by changing their equipment, making it faster and easier to assemble groups and get fighting.

For those new to MMOs and interested in an experience closer to a traditional Final Fantasy game, they promised that the player would not feel like a number, thanks to a strong story focus that would make them feel like the hero of Eorzea. Mr. Tanaka noted that content updates would be released to players every 3 months or so, similar to the current Final Fantasy XI update schedule, despite the voices and increased production values in the game's cinematics and presentation.

I kinda already knew of the increased solo focus, but they also seem really set on keeping FFXI alive(Considering that game is getting a level cap increase to 99, dur). Good to know.

Beyond these broad statements, some news was made: Mr. Tanaka mentioned that players would be able to create and join groups called "Companies." Similar to player guilds in other games, Companies can themselves "level up," presumably offering additional benefits to the members therein. When asked if Companies would have shared housing or other group-owned assets, they smiled and said that players would have real-estate to call their own, but "weren't ready to announce anything more at this time" - sounds like a "yes" to me!

OH GOD ITS RO ALL OVER AGAIN... well, probably not, but seems similar.

Unfortunately for many, another piece of news was not made: when asked, Tanaka reiterated that they currently have no plans to release the game on the Xbox 360, and have not even begun porting it. They're "still investigating it," but it's puzzling they'd drop the Xbox 360 after releasing Final Fantasies XI and XIII on Microsoft's system.

I smell continuing Xbox Live shenanigans.

Still, uber stoked about this again, really fucking wishing I knew anything about the PS3 beta test. :argh:

[Kim]

There was a tech demo. The difference between the 3DS tech demos showing older games and the PS3 tech demo showing FF7 is that Nintendo says they're actually looking into remaking the games they had tech demos of, seeing if it would work to do them.

[Donomni]

Ah, very cool then.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Miyamoto said we were over due for a starfox game. In that he's looking into having one made for the 3DS.

At the very least we will see a new Starfox title in the next few years. Rather or not it's a remake of Starfox 64 was more or less just speculation.

[Solid Snake]

I don't have the link on me but I'm about 90% sure that I read that one of Miaymoto's first projects of interest when starting work on 3DS software involved a Starfox game.

However, it sounds very much like the Starfox game will be a completely new sequel that simply takes most its cues from SF64 (which makes sense, given that SF64 was the best in the series.) This is in contrast to OoT, which has been confirmed to be a remake. Nintendo's done a pretty good job of referring to the Starfox game as simply "Starfox," whereas OoT is referred to as "Ocarina," which underscores the point.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

This is too funny to not talk about.
http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-new-xbox-360-won-t-display-the-red-ring-of-death--176872.phtml

EDIT: also found the link talking about the possible new Starfox title for the 3DS.
http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-star-fox-64-getting-remade-for-3ds-176558.phtml

[mudah.swf]

IGN: So we hear you can store games digitally on 3DS. That's cool, right?

Miyamoto: What the hell are you crazy mofos talking about? (laughs) (http://wii.ign.com/articles/110/1100039p1.html)

Damn you Nintendo :(

Wonder why Nikkei would reveal that, then? They've been on the mark with other 3DS revelations before, so perhaps this was a mistranslation. Bah, the one good thing Nintendo could have done with it and they haven't done so.

[Yrcrazypa]

Why do people keep making MMOs more focused on soloing? That's like, the exact opposite of what you should be doing in an MMO. And in fact, is the exact reason I'm getting sick of most MMOs, they make them so solo focused, no one ever wants to group, and if I want to play alone, I'd play a single player RPG, which are designed for that.

[Jagos]

Yrcrazypa's statement --->||--------------------------------------------------------------||<Left field

That's a foul ball dude.

Mind telling us what that's about?

[Meister]

FFXIV, I think. Six or seven posts up.

[krogothwolf]

Why do people keep making MMOs more focused on soloing? That's like, the exact opposite of what you should be doing in an MMO. And in fact, is the exact reason I'm getting sick of most MMOs, they make them so solo focused, no one ever wants to group, and if I want to play alone, I'd play a single player RPG, which are designed for that.

Because players want Solo experience as well as group experience. Or they want to be able to advance and only play with their friends. MMO companies want to keep racking in a monthly charge as well as a point of sale charge. So they label the game an MMO because no one will pay a monthy charge for a single player game with online experience.

[Kim]

Because I don't like the game being completely fucking unplayable if I don't have someone to play with, and even in party focused MMOs like FFXI, it isn't always easy to find a group, especially for someone like me.

[Yrcrazypa]

Yrcrazypa's statement --->||--------------------------------------------------------------||<Left field

That's a foul ball dude.

Mind telling us what that's about?

Not completely out of left field, I just didn't quote the post mentioning FFXIV being more solo friendly.

And my point is that it used to be in games where grouping was fairly important, back before WoW came out, at least, that it was always possible to find a group for something. Then WoW came out, and along with it all the other MMOs that make soloing easy, or more rewarding. Every MMO I've played since then, I've been more or less soloing the entire few weeks I play, because I can't find anyone that wants to group. Everyone just wants to solo, because it tends to give faster exp, and you get more of whatever the in-game currency is because developers still haven't figured out how to make incentives to group when soloing is easy.

And the idea of soloing should be possible because you don't want to play with other people baffles me. If you don't want to play with others, why are you playing a multiplayer game?

[krogothwolf]

Because I don't like the game being completely fucking unplayable if I don't have someone to play with, and even in party focused MMOs like FFXI, it isn't always easy to find a group, especially for someone like me.

There's also the fact that you might not even have a chance to find a group at all. Waiting hours to play the game because you need to find a group, or your group needs to fill out is very very aggrivating

[Yrcrazypa]

Part of the reason you can't find groups is because everyone wants to solo. I haven't seen a game that did the grouping incentives right in a long time, so naturally people want to solo. Like I said, you get more loot, more money, and more exp solo because you don't have to worry about any of it being split. Most people just don't see a reason to group unless they absolutely have to, and then they just dump the group afterward. And then I shortly quit whatever MMO it is shortly after because, regardless of how fun the game is in groups, if nobody wants to actually group up, I won't be able to have fun.

[krogothwolf]

Actually, FF XI its very difficult to solo, and it sometimes, even when it was largely popular it took a while to find a group. Everquest was the same way. Even getting a group in WoW for kicks and Raids took forever, and then people were wildly specific on what they needed. Every MMO(aside from WoW), I have played that's group specific it takes on average 2-3 hours to find a group, and during that time you sit around doing nothing because you can't really do anything. So yeah, having a group and solo emphasis is a major plus.

If you can only have fun in an MMO with groups and not solo then that's a shame. Some people find fun in doing both, or enjoy be able to Solo while waiting for a group.

[bluestarultor]

Yrcrazypa:

Simply put, MMOs are following the market. It's not about poor group incentives. It's about people not WANTING to group. If you look at the most group-centric classes in any MMO, you'll find that they have the least players. In some games, this leads to a comical rush of 90% of the usership to the one class that can stand on its own. In FlyFF, for example, fighter class accounts for a large percent of all characters. Roughly 50% by my own estimation when Phantom was playing. The healer class, which can double as a monk, generally goes the monk route. Finding an actual healer is incredibly rare and the people who play them are in ridiculously high demand. FlyFF's system does try to make players party up, but they've managed to find ways to avoid it.

[Donomni]

FFXI is a lot more soloable now, and will be more so soon enough with the level cap increases down the pipe, considering the vast majority of FFXI is designed for a cap of 75.

Anyways, the main problem with grouping isn't even finding one, but the absolutely absurd expectations they can put on you. I don't even mean just a "If you aren't possessing this one piece of gear that really only offers a slight increase in ability we'll boot your ass" mentality, but the sheer commitment some of these groups require. Even if you stayed for an hour or so, people will lose their shit if you even think of leaving the party, despite reasons that are likely more grounded in RL than anything else.

Don't get me started about guilds and endgame. There is no faster way to make someone quit a game than the "lifetime commitment" BS a lot of endgame groups have.

Anyways, I think it would be a smart idea to continue this in another thread, if you want.

[krogothwolf]

Don't get me started about guilds and endgame. There is no faster way to make someone quit a game than the "lifetime commitment" BS a lot of endgame groups have.

WoW is becoming absolutly stupid with EndGame crap. I got to 80 and wanted to do some raids and dungoens. No one would let me join because my gear "wasn't adequate" but I could get adequate gear because I could join a group. It was the dumbest shit ever and I stopped playing WoW at that point.

So yeah, being able to do things Solo is a major plus, because groups and guilds are becoming huge pricks about things, and it's all WoW's fault.

[Kim]

So, those of you who thought the new 360 looked cool. You can trade in your old console for $100 off the price, so long as you include the cords and one controller, and you can trade a 20gb hard drive in for an extra $30. Bigger hard drives are worth more. I'm gonna do that today, because my 360 is a launch 360, and I want it out of my hands before it dies.

[mudah.swf]

The new XBLA Castlevania game seems really... lazy. it's a shame to see that they've straight up reused GBA quality sprites and Monster Hunter-ized the gameplay. At least Lords of Shadow looks alright.

[Krylo]

And my point is that it used to be in games where grouping was fairly important, back before WoW came out, at least, that it was always possible to find a group for something. Then WoW came out, and along with it all the other MMOs that make soloing easy, or more rewarding. Bulllllshit.

Name these mythical games you speak of which were harder to solo than WoW.

You could solo The Realm.

You could solo Ragnarok Online.

You could solo EverQuest.

You could solo pretty much every game ever except maybe FFXI and UO. I haven't tried those ones but I've heard they're a total pain in the ass.

Unless you're talking about dungeons and not random quests or grinding, in which case... well WoW is impossible to solo there as well.


Every MMO I've played since then, I've been more or less soloing the entire few weeks I play, because I can't find anyone that wants to group. Everyone just wants to solo, because it tends to give faster exp, and you get more of whatever the in-game currency is because developers still haven't figured out how to make incentives to group when soloing is easy.
I don't even LIKE grouping and I have no problem ending up in groups.

"LFG Fuckin' Around" may not always work, but if you hit a group of players waiting for a respawn or whatever, you can usually organize a group pretty quickly to get the quest done faster, and said group--or at least parts of it--will usually stick around for some time after that.

Further, what? More EXP and Gold? Maybe in those old MMORPGs you're rattling off about, but not in new ones. Kill xp and loot are pretty much a drop in the bucket, where quest experience and rewards are where you'll be getting most of your experience... and quest experience and rewards aren't shared amongst the group in most MMORPGs. Seriously, you go ahead and try grinding to max level in WoW, or CO, or Guild Wars, or...well, you get the idea.

In most modern games quest drops don't even have to be shared as the odds for a creature dropping a quest item are figured separately for all players, or a single quest item can be looted for all grouped players.

The only time this falls apart is when doing dungeons/killing bosses/MVPs/whatever your current game calls them. Of course doing these things are patently impossible at a level where the experience/drops are going to be at all useful to you while soloing, so that still doesn't take away from the drive to group at all.

People tend to group less these days because the push to group in modern endgames/dungeons means a lot of people end up in groups full of total assholes and quickly develop an aversion to it. Like disenchanters bitching about taking a drop which is a clear upgrade for you in WoW.

You know, the people you'd never put up with for more than 5 minutes if you didn't need the whole group to stand a chance of clearing the dungeon/killing the boss.

It has nothing to do with the reward system being messed poor.

[Kim]

Just got the new 360. Apparently it won't take 360 memory cards, so make sure you put all your shit on a thumbdrive, bcause the old hard drives can't connect with the new consoles unless you have a special cord for copying your files over. Other than that, the new console is so very nice. I love it.

[EVILNess]

Bulllllshit.

Name these mythical games you speak of which were harder to solo than WoW.

You could solo The Realm.

You could solo Ragnarok Online.

You could solo EverQuest.

You could solo pretty much every game ever except maybe FFXI and UO. I haven't tried those ones but I've heard they're a total pain in the ass.


You could solo in everquest, but man oh man was grouping ever so much more lucrative, and if you were a cleric... well... you got used to killing green conned undead while you waited for another group.

I think his point was that compared to older MMOs, it is easier to level efficiently solo and it can be sometimes EVEN more efficient to solo. Versus say RO or Old school EQ where you had to group to rake in xp.

[Krylo]

You could solo in everquest, but man oh man was grouping ever so much more lucrative, and if you were a cleric... well... you got used to killing green conned undead while you waited for another group.

I think his point was that compared to older MMOs, it is easier to level efficiently solo and it can be sometimes EVEN more efficient to solo. Versus say RO or Old school EQ where you had to group to rake in xp.

Still calling bullshit.

You could level way faster in RO until endgame/near endgame without a group. At least if you knew how to build your character. Everquest maybe not, but...

Also RO's drop system incentivized soloing if you were actually trying to get anything rare and/or useful--like cards or hats. Not to mention the only way to XP in RO was via grinding, and mob xp was shared amongst the party; so unless you were built poorly you could easily xp faster as a thief (evasion tanking + DPS) or mage (AoE slaughters) solo than in a group.

Other older games were the same way.

Meanwhile newer games don't incentivize soloing, because quest xp isn't shared, and mob kills are barely worth mentioning as far as your experience goes (unless you're having a high level character run you through instances/dungeons/high level areas for xps but that's boring and not even really playing).

What he's really saying is that he views past games through rose colored glasses and fails to see the real reason that soloing has become more prevalent in new school MMORPGs.

Which is that grouping has been given a heavier weight at end game, which causes forced grouping, which causes bad groups, which causes bad associations with grouping. Which causes people to avoid groups, especially PUGs, unless they are absolutely needed. The reason I don't like grouping isn't, after all, because of all the great PUGs I've been in.

No, it's been all the PUGs I've been in where no one was interested in playing the game or having fun, but just in getting their loot and getting out, often at the expense of other characters. Tanks who refuse to wait for the OOM mages and healers, disenchanters who insist on having that blue even though your character can actually use it, groups that click directly through anything that's lore related, etc. etc.

It wasn't as much an issue in older games for two reasons. Firstly, not as many people were playing, making it more of a community. Secondly, you grouped because you wanted to, not because it was necessary for your character progression.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Nintendo's E3 website has it listed as "Star Fox 64 3D." Not sure why people are surprised.

[Yumil]

Still calling bullshit.

You could level way faster in RO
I wouldnt necessarily call RO an older MMO. It's from roundabout the same time when WoW was released, and from that generation I would say leveling has become quite a bit easier. Id really put most games put in after the decade started into this generation as it's when MMOs really became popular.

RO is also somewhat different as it's a Korean MMO, which are largely based on grinding for leveling, while Western have started to shift to quest content for leveling. Not all Korean MMOs are like that, I'd throw in Aion as example of a Westernized Korean MMO.

I'd say that the Western MMOs are evolving for easy times getting to cap and then hard at cap(or harder...in that WoW is no longer that hard at cap), while most Korean games want it to be more grind based so they can micro-transaction you with consumable items that give you multiplier xp boosts and other such stuff.

EDIT: Heck Vanilla Wow was really grindy to. I remember mostly grinding from 47-55. Heck, I still remember the spots I used to take my characters for that, but it was definitely better than other MMOs I had played prior to 2001.

[Krylo]

I wouldnt necessarily call RO an older MMO. It's from roundabout the same time when WoW was released, and from that generation I would say leveling has become quite a bit easier. Id really put most games put in after the decade started into this generation as it's when MMOs really became popular.

RO is also somewhat different as it's a Korean MMO, which are largely based on grinding for leveling, while Western have started to shift to quest content for leveling. Not all Korean MMOs are like that, I'd throw in Aion as example of a Westernized Korean MMO.

I'd say that the Western MMOs are evolving for easy times getting to cap and then hard at cap(or harder...in that WoW is no longer that hard at cap), while most Korean games want it to be more grind based so they can micro-transaction you with consumable items that give you multiplier xp boosts and other such stuff.

EDIT: Heck Vanilla Wow was really grindy to. I remember mostly grinding from 47-55. Heck, I still remember the spots I used to take my characters for that, but it was definitely better than other MMOs I had played prior to 2001.

On the other hand older games like The Realm were still solo grindable with incredible ease.

The quest system has made MMO's MORE group friendly, not less so, because you don't share quest xp like you share mob xp. The older system allowed anyone who could AoE reliably or otherwise kill large numbers of monsters quickly, to level far faster alone than in a group.

Also, RO came out before WoW, and is freshest in my mind (along with The Realm as I recently played that again under its new ownership), which is why I'm using them. However other older MMO's followed the same basic formula before WoW anyway. Some followed the WoW formula before WoW, and a lot more do now, due to WoW's popularity--however that formula is not what makes groups less likely to form. At least not in the way he was suggesting.

[Regulus Tera]

Kid Icarus: Uprising being developed by Sakurai was the announcement of the show. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Also: Hey NonCon, remember when I suggested that Atlus would make Persona 5 for a handheld? I'm this close to being vindicated.

[EVILNess]

Also: Hey NonCon, remember when I suggested that Atlus would make Persona 5 for a handheld? I'm this close to being vindicated.

I hope they don't. They could do so much with a PS3 game. I want to see some Social Links in HD! WITH FULL VOICES!

Still, they would probably get it out faster if it was on a handheld.

[Melfice]

So, those of you who thought the new 360 looked cool. You can trade in your old console for $100 off the price, so long as you include the cords and one controller, and you can trade a 20gb hard drive in for an extra $30. Bigger hard drives are worth more. I'm gonna do that today, because my 360 is a launch 360, and I want it out of my hands before it dies.

I do hope they'll offer this in the Netherlands as well.
I could do with a new Xbox myself. It's only given me trouble once while it was still under warranty, but if I can avoid it breaking down now, that'd be swell.

[greed]

I hope they don't. They could do so much with a PS3 game. I want to see some Social Links in HD! WITH FULL VOICES!

Still, they would probably get it out faster if it was on a handheld.

Who says the 3DS won't do VA? We have no idea how big the carts they're using are, DVD equivalent 4-6 gigs can't be too hard to make cost effective as a game cart these days considering you can buy 20GB flash drives for less than $10. I mean they may well be only slightly bigger than DS cards, but I can't imagine fairly large carts would be impossible to make cost effective now either.

Also Persona 5 on the 3DS sounds completely freaking awesome. Wonder if they'll bring back the shadows or try something new? Also man I hope that tech demo was an indication that Pikmin 3 is gonna be on it.

[phil_]

We have no idea how big the carts they're using are2 GB. The carts are 2 GB. http://e3.nintendo.com/3ds/

[greed]

Okay then. Hmm damn that might be a bit small for a lot of VA. Enough for some though. Especially if the game cuts down on the graphics.

[mudah.swf]

I dunno, compression technology is pretty good nowadays. Namco for example have managed to port some of the Tales games over to the PSP with most if not all of the voice acting, and in the case of their Tales of Phantasia port they even added MORE voice acting.

MikeZ, one of the few awesome Tager players on Blazblue gives his view of MVC3 from the time he spent with it (http://shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=241032).

Bascially the game at E3 was essentially Tatsunoko vs Capcom 2, but the team at Capcom working on it says it will more resemble Marvel vs Capcom 2 by release. For those wondering about the "exchange" mechanic, it is a universal launcher that can be incorporated into air combos as a means of tagging out to another character to continue your combos, or scoring a knockdown. Guessing the direction the opponent will press to tag out (forward or down specifically) will cause the defending player to counter the attacker's combo and give an opportunity to turn the tables. Worringly, right now there seems to be no penalty for guessing, but hopefully using it won't be essential for combos.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Wonder if they'll bring back the shadows or try something new? Also man I hope that tech demo was an indication that Pikmin 3 is gonna be on it.
Pikmin 3 is a Wii game. Miyamoto confirmed this in also that interview I linked.

[Solid Snake]

I hope they don't. They could do so much with a PS3 game. I want to see some Social Links in HD! WITH FULL VOICES!


I could think of far worse possibilities than P5 on the 3DS, honestly.

With the 3DS, they could include partial voicing for the most important scenes and make minor improvements to Persona 3 Portable's general layout. (Hell, the regular DS can handle some degree of VA, and I'm sure the 3DS can handle considerably more.) And P3P's apparently come pretty darn close to capturing all of Persona 3 (aside from a relatively minor graphical downgrade.)

Sure, P5 on the 3DS might strain to look Persona 4 quality, but I'd rather have Atlus concentrate on exciting gameplay mechanics and an entertaining narrative than obsessing over graphics. Obsession with graphics at the expense of everything else apparently got us FFXIII, after all.

[Kim]

Obsession with graphics at the expense of everything else apparently got us FFXIII

Don't blame graphics for what is very obviously Motomu Toriyama's fault.

[bluestarultor]

[/I]Don't blame graphics for what is very obviously Motomu Toriyama's fault.

Gotta side with Nonsie, here. The story had issues that graphics had no logical impact on. Namely the part where it falls off a cliff and sets you in the wilderness with the simple instruction, "GRIND!" I know people bitched about the game being one long hallway, but damn did I ever miss that hallway when it was torn away from me.


You can have both great graphics and a great story. Look at FFX. Yeah, it was last-gen, but it was still beautiful and still had a good plot. Given the newness of the technology when it was being made, I'll hold it up as an example of story and graphics being independent.

[Magus]

Must...fight...urge...to...hate...on...FFX...keep. ..thread...on...track...

Did Rockstar ever announce anything at E3?

[EVILNess]

I'm not asking them to do photo realistic graphics, in fact that actually wasn't what I was really thinking about. It never crossed my mind.

They could do fully voiced Social Links,
Have a bigger gameplay area,
Have a dual English/Japanese voice track,
Have more than one random battle theme. (This is me poking fun. Kinda)

I could go on, but really when it comes to graphics I would rather them be distinct and crisp rather than photo realistic.

In fact, I argue that the more realistic the graphics the more ridiculous Japanese Anime hair looks.

[Magus]

Having the Japanese voice track option, I vote for that. There's no real reason not to in this era of near-unlimited Bluray space.

[bluestarultor]

Having the Japanese voice track option, I vote for that. There's no real reason not to in this era of near-unlimited Bluray space.

25GB single-layer is far from unlimited. Even if you go 50GB dual-layer, there are plenty of ways to fill it up. I know people with music collections that easily put that amount to shame. MP3 is small, but it adds up when you factor in voice, music, and sound effects, and pre-rendered cutscenes probably don't help, either.

Just because it's the best thing on the market doesn't mean it's magic.

[EVILNess]

25GB single-layer is far from unlimited. Even if you go 50GB dual-layer, there are plenty of ways to fill it up. I know people with music collections that easily put that amount to shame. MP3 is small, but it adds up when you factor in voice, music, and sound effects, and pre-rendered cutscenes probably don't help, either.

Just because it's the best thing on the market doesn't mean it's magic.

No one said it was magic, but it has 5-10 times the space of a DVD which means that, yes, they could probably put a freaking Japanese voice track on there somehow.

[bluestarultor]

No one said it was magic, but it has 5-10 times the space of a DVD which means that, yes, they could probably put a freaking Japanese voice track on there somehow.

They could, but do you honestly think they will? We're talking about Japan. They held back the release of CTDS specifically so they could gut the Japanese characters from it when their version already supported English letters. Having a Japanese voice track is vanishingly rare. I don't think they're going to just start including them as a favor.

[Kim]

Fragile is a Wii game. It has a Japanese voice track. No excuse for a PS3 game to not have one.

[bluestarultor]

Fragile is a Wii game. It has a Japanese voice track. No excuse for a PS3 game to not have one.

So does Disgaea. I said rare, not impossible.


Edit: You have to consider the culture of each company. By this I mean less country of origin and more specific company culture. Most companies simply don't care about including those things. In fact, most people probably wouldn't even use them. Catering to a small minority is fine, but it's something you do extra when you feel like it, not bend over backwards to fulfill.

[Magus]

I dunno, Konami has specifically included Japanese voice tracks for their PS2 Castlevania games (Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness) and quite frankly I don't even care about those because they don't even have that much voice work, but it was still appreciated (since it was better than the English dub). It just seems like something that would be easy to do, but I may be wrong since I don't know how the process works. If voice tracks aren't that hard to put on DVDs it seems like they could do it on video games, but I suppose it depends on how many GBs the voice over work takes up.

[bluestarultor]

I dunno, Konami has specifically included Japanese voice tracks for their PS2 Castlevania games (Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness) and quite frankly I don't even care about those because they don't even have that much voice work, but it was still appreciated (since it was better than the English dub). It just seems like something that would be easy to do, but I may be wrong since I don't know how the process works. If voice tracks aren't that hard to put on DVDs it seems like they could do it on video games, but I suppose it depends on how many GBs the voice over work takes up.

Well, from a programming perspective, it means all the extra voice data, which is going to be basically the same size for both, and code to allow players to exchange one for the other. The code would be a matter of simply changing the file paths to point to the Japanese folder, plus the menu options, but the actual data could be significant.

[Bells]

i Dunno man, NIS delayed Phantom Brave for the Wii just to ADD the Japanese Voice track into it after fans requested it so much. That same thing goes for several Dragonball games, so much that now it's the norm.

Yeah, it's case by case. But it's not really a cultural issue. If the company is made aware that putting a secondary voice track in the disk is going to raise it's sales... they are likely to do it.

It's more of a business pratice, since it also means you have to pay the voice actors of the original version the royalties of the localized version, so it pretty much doubles the budget cost of voice acting in a localized game, since it now covers 2 casts of voice actors.

[phil_]

On having a Japanese dub, Muramasa only had the Japanese with subtitles.

[Kim]

You have to consider the culture of each company.

IIRC, Squeenix were the ones who localized the DS version of Rhapsody. There are English versions of all the tracks, but they left the Japanese versions in instead.

[Jagos]

Well, from a programming perspective, it means all the extra voice data, which is going to be basically the same size for both, and code to allow players to exchange one for the other. The code would be a matter of simply changing the file paths to point to the Japanese folder, plus the menu options, but the actual data could be significant.

Namco would like to have a word with you about Tekken.

[ZAKtheGeek]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/ZAKtheGeek/muramasawhere.png

[bluestarultor]

Namco would like to have a word with you about Tekken.

God, if Namco wants to talk to me about anything, give me a time and place and I will be there. Or any software company for that matter. Any wisdom I can pick up is all to the good at this point as I attempt to strike out and get my first job in the industry, and if I can leave a good impression, it's even better. ;)


On Tekken, I really don't see how what I said would be wrong. You have the Japanese voice acting, you have the English voice acting, and you have to provide a means to switch between the two. Trust me, the coding part of it would be simple and small in comparison to the actual voice data.

[mudah.swf]

His point is that Tekken is voiced in a mixture of English and Japanese and maybe even Korean, without dubbing any of the non-English speech.

[Jagos]

On Tekken, I really don't see how what I said would be wrong. You have the Japanese voice acting, you have the English voice acting, and you have to provide a means to switch between the two. Trust me, the coding part of it would be simple and small in comparison to the actual voice data.

Mudah got it, I'm just going to expand:

Off the top of my head, the characters speak their natural language including dialects. Jin speaks Tokyo-ben, his cousin speaks Kansai-ben with very few just speaking English with Japanese subtitles. Hell, Lei actually speaks Chinese. Yes, more work for the company but as they've been doing this since T4, it must be well worth it.

Somehow, I believe that companies will start using the dual dialogue option, especially since it's a fairly popular option in anime.

[mudah.swf]

As an aside Tekken is MAD popular in Korea, almost reaching Starcraft levels of sheer popularity, and having a Korean character speaking in actual Korean will definitely have helped that, if the Koreans are as patriotic as the legends tell. A lot of top Tekken players are Korean, and there's even a TV show dedicated to Tekken I believe, "Tekken Crash".

[greed]

The thing I'm most excited for outside of the 3DS, is Donkey Kong Country Returns I LOVED the DKC games by Rare and this one by Retro looks like it's bringing all that goodness back, though the lack of Kremlings is ood, I guess they wanted to make villains of their own, hopefully they'll bring them back if this gets a sequel.

Also anyone find it hilarious that it looks like DKCR has got fast paced Sonic like bits that look better than anything actually Sonic related for a long time?

[Seil]

Silent Hill 8. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS7xj78t4dk)

Looks interesting, music they used for the trailer sounds okay, though it seems to incorporate elements of Homecoming and Shattered Memories.

[phil_]

Also anyone find it hilarious that it looks like DKCR has got fast paced Sonic like bits that look better than anything actually Sonic related for a long time?I find it hilarious that, while watching the trailer in Nintendo's press conference, I wondered out loud, "Is a return to Donkey Kong Country really the best move for the series?" Immediately following my question, the title popped up, and I was like, "Oh, ok, if you say so, Retro."

But, yeah, it's another side-scrolling platformer that I'm excited about because, hot dang, Nintendo's bringing back side-scrolling platformers, but that I'm not sure I'll buy because the only DKC games I've played were Donkey Kong Land 1 and 2 and, while fun, I haven't played them in years nor had any inclination to do so.

... Now that I think about it, I never finished DKL 2. Maybe I should...

[bluestarultor]

Mudah got it, I'm just going to expand:

Off the top of my head, the characters speak their natural language including dialects. Jin speaks Tokyo-ben, his cousin speaks Kansai-ben with very few just speaking English with Japanese subtitles. Hell, Lei actually speaks Chinese. Yes, more work for the company but as they've been doing this since T4, it must be well worth it.

Somehow, I believe that companies will start using the dual dialogue option, especially since it's a fairly popular option in anime.

That's not exactly what I was talking about. I meant actually translating the game for other countries. Although it does explain why King always roars like a leopard. Obliquely. :raise:

[snip]

Edit: I was unnecessarily blunt here, and I apologize. What I was trying to say was that a look at what a company has already done and how much gives an indication of what they'll do in the future. A company like NIS has already included Japanese voice tracks in their games, so it's less of a stretch to expect them to do it again than it is for a company with no history of that. Again, sorry for being short.

[greed]

I find it hilarious that, while watching the trailer in Nintendo's press conference, I wondered out loud, "Is a return to Donkey Kong Country really the best move for the series?" Immediately following my question, the title popped up, and I was like, "Oh, ok, if you say so, Retro."

But, yeah, it's another side-scrolling platformer that I'm excited about because, hot dang, Nintendo's bringing back side-scrolling platformers, but that I'm not sure I'll buy because the only DKC games I've played were Donkey Kong Land 1 and 2 and, while fun, I haven't played them in years nor had any inclination to do so.

... Now that I think about it, I never finished DKL 2. Maybe I should...

Yeah once I saw Retro was doing it I was like "Oh now you're working on my other favourite slumbering Nintendo series?" Cause seriously if they even come close to repeating Metroid Prime this will be game of the year material.

Also the Land titles aren't actually the best judge ,they were good but limited. The actual Country games for the SNES were much better, so if you've got a Wii/working SNES/GBA or backwards compatible DS then you really should try one of the Country games. They've all got VC or GBA ports. DKC 2 is probably the best.


Edit: The only real downside to this is that this game won't have the same guy doing the music that the originals had.

[mudah.swf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqIpy8Wq06U

Trailer for Resident Evil Revelations on the 3DS. Capcom are saying that they've managed to squeeze the MT Framework engine onto the 3DS, which explains why it looks so good.

[UndrDog]

Is there any video of actual gameplay? I know it's a tad early, but I don't want to get too excited over prerendered video, y'know?

[Yumil]

Is there any video of actual gameplay? I know it's a tad early, but I don't want to get too excited over prerendered video, y'know?
I can't 100% be sure if it's prerendered or not, the shadows look blocky enough to be game engine done. That being said, the 3DS' specs are a beast and wouldn't suprise me if this was in game engine stuff:)

[UndrDog]

Well if that's rendered in real time then wow. Just wow. And in 3D no less. Still, I hope we get a gameplay clip soon. ^_^

[mudah.swf]

Well Capcom have claimed that the trailer is indeed in real time, and according to journos who went to E3 you could rotate the camera around the cutscene, so it probably was at least partly real time.