The E3 Thread

[Bells]

Just cause the other one was already running for sometime and it was about "speculation". So now we get a new one just for the actual show...

So, just saw the Xbox presentation...

Honestly? I felt underwhelming. I won't bash it much for all the Fake enthusiasm and the fact that some (can't say all) Kinect Demos looked like "fake demos" instead of real gameplay...

Also, at no point Metal Gear Rising was stated as an "Exclusive" at this E3. Actually, after it it was said that All Games and Demos -from that point on- were exclusives. So... doubt?

Halo didn't look so hot, Actually Gears 3 looked better and so Did the new COD... aside from Fable the only thing Xbox gave us so far was Space Marines Vs Aliens in Different color pallets.

As for the whole Kinect deal... well, the Hardware seems cool enough. I still don't know how the Kinect will prevent you from screwing up whatever you're doing with unintended body movements from you or freinds.

Also, new way to fuck your friends over. Walk into the room and yell "XBOX STOP".

Also also... 2 questions:

What's up with all the asian chicks?

Can you please fake enthusiasm a bit more, Microsoft people? SHEESH!

2 high points in the presentation? ESPN guys and "EVERYBODY GETS A FREE XBOX!"

[Azisien]

Asian chicks are good lookin'?

And of course Halo didn't look interesting. It's Halo. :)

[Kim]

And of course Halo didn't look interesting. It's Halo. :)

Now, no need to start trolling, Azis.

[Bells]

Well, they could've put some effort to upgrade the damn thing... I mean, it barely looks better than Halo 3, which looked barely better than Halo 2.... and it's their "Flagship monster Franchise"...

I was really willing to give Kinect a fair chance, but it didn't work. It looks like a nice interface Hub and i'm still not convinced that the Technology is solid.

[Kim]

I'd get Kinect if there were more games like Dance Center. That looks fuggin' sweet.

Halo Reach looked good. Graphics were improved, the little animations for melee kills were nifty, and the Elites seem a lot more into avoiding your shots than they felt in Halo 3.

COD Black Ops looks nice, too. It's still just COD, but few people are going to complain about that.

[Mike McC]

All you need to know about e3 is in this gif.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2lk5l04.gif

There is nothing more to say about anything.

[TheWolf13]

+ I'm excited about the new Xbox because my wife and I have been talking about buying another and giving our launch box to our son.

+ ESPN was a pretty cool announcement. The only TV I watch is through Hulu or sports so now I can get rid of my digital receiver.

+ Black Ops, Rising, and Gears looked really good.

+ Voice chat and controls with Kinect are pretty cool(assuming price is reasonable).

-Very few exclusives that are worthwhile.

-No Hulu.

-Kinect=WiiPlay, WiiSports, and Wiifit.

As much as Microsoft hyped this show as industry changing it was a disappointment. The only game changer was their deal with ESPN. If Sony has something to announce other than Move they could really steal the show.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

2 high points in the presentation? ESPN guys and "EVERYBODY GETS A FREE XBOX!"

Ah God damnit...

I always seem to miss the good shit and chances to get a 360.

Least I'm not the only one though.

[Kim]

Ah God damnit...

I always seem to miss the good shit and chances to get a 360.

Least I'm not the only one though.

That's what you get for not being an industry insider!

[Bells]

If move shows up with better games, it will already be better. And since SOCOM4 on Move is already a reality, i think it's a decent possibility right now.

But it's all wait and see right now.

Also the Entire Fitness demonstration was Awkward and off-putting. The only thing worst was the Video Chat bit (yeah, it's a nice little feature, but c'mon!!! Presentation people... )

[phil_]

You seem to be suggesting that his embarrassing little dance was detrimental to their presentation, Shinryu, instead of showing that you need to be able to dance to play Dance Central as much as you need to know how to play guitar to play Rock Band.

Thing I thought but didn't mention in the last thread: Why wasn't the Gears chick HUGE? She should have been HUUUUGE.

[Aerozord]

That's what you get for not being an industry insider!

though if you were an industry insider you should already have your own 360, or atleast be able to write one off on your taxes as a "work expence". I swear thats gotta be the best part about working in gaming, can write off all your purchases

[mudah.swf]

MGS Rising looked damn awesome. Probably gonna be a rad action game but not a good traditional MGS game. Also Child Of Eden (http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265343/child-of-eden-e3-2010-official-trailer?tag=videos%3Bimg%3B1) looks amazing, a spiritual sequel to Rez at last.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

though if you were an industry insider you should already have your own 360, or atleast be able to write one off on your taxes as a "work expence". I swear thats gotta be the best part about working in gaming, can write off all your purchases

I need to get it in gear and work my way into the industry a little quicker. God knows when that'll happen again.

[Kim]

not a good traditional MGS game

That it won't just be the MGS formula rehashed for the nth time is probably my biggest reason to be excited for it.

[Meister]

as much as you need to know how to play guitar to play Rock Band
You did hear about that whole Pro mode thing right?

e:
Also Child Of Eden (http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265343/child-of-eden-e3-2010-official-trailer?tag=videos%3Bimg%3B1) looks amazing, a spiritual sequel to Rez at last.
Yessss more of that please. :dance:

[phil_]

You did hear about that whole Pro mode thing right?So the first chick plays that while the nerd plays on Medium because Easy is for elementary school kids.

[CelesJessa]

Metal Gear Solid Rising (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRDmwuC_-Uc&feature=player_embedded) - Woah. More jizzblood. It looks pretty sweet though. I'm still holding onto the hope that it's going to take place between MGS2 and 4, and I would loove to see the fall of Raiden, like, you start out as a human and then by the end you're a cyborg. In any case, I think it looks cool and I will find a way to play it. I really wish the trailer would have shown something relating to the plot though. (As someone else put it, right now it's looking like mindless violence: the video game)

[Seil]

Also Child Of Eden looks amazing, a spiritual sequel to Rez at last.

I...

What...

Um...

What did I just watch?

Metal Gear Solid Rising

Yes.

[Solid Snake]

I'm torn between hoping Sony's E3 performance succeeds (because the PS3 is the only current-gen console I own) and hoping it fails (because those fuckers sold me a PS3 that malfunctioned three weeks after purchase and because I'm still insanely bitter over the many hours of saved game data I lost.)

Metal Gear Rising looks pretty neat. So long as it doesn't use Kinect or Move. If it does, I hereby disown it.

[Kim]

Next Medal of Honor takes place in Afghanistan. I really don't think I'm comfortable with that.

[Meister]

Collectibles: iron, gold and lithium bars

[Odjn]

Collectibles: iron, gold and lithium bars

Don't forget the heroin!

[Kim]

EA's conference was kind of a letdown. Bulletstorm looked good, as did Crysis 2, but there wasn't really anything else I cared about.

[Mike McC]

jizzbloodAlrighty, I was not the only one to think that.

[Arcanum]

Microsoft's press conference was a huge let down, other than MGS: Rising and Halo Reach. Gears 3 was... well... more Gears. I still have a burning hatred for Gears multiplayer though so I'm not that interested in it. Call of Duty (as if this wasn't clear with MW2) is officially a Holywood action series now, and now that Infinity Ward will no longer be able to innovate the franchise it's only a matter of time until it fades into obscurity (I have no trust in Treyarch). Fable 3 was a huge disappointment graphics-wise. Didn't look that much better than Fable 2, and I refuse to pass any further judgment on Fable until I've played the game since the actual game never compares to the clips or the Molyneux-hype. As for the other half of the conference, Natal Kinect (such a stupid name) fails to grab my interest in any way, and I just skipped over those bits.

As for the EA conference, it was slightly better than Microsoft's, mostly because I love that Criterion is handling NFS, even though the demonstration they showed was rather lackluster due to their lack of skill with the game. Dead Space 2 looked nice, although the demonstration suffered once again from lack-of-skill syndrome. Fighting necromorphs in a church of Unitology is especially creepy. MoH looked alright, but it's close to falling in the same boat as CoD. I have more faith in MoH though, since they have the Battlefield team working on it (I think that's what they said, I was mostly just skimming through the conference and watching the trailers/gameplay demos). Bulletstorm also grabbed my interest, if only because it seems to encourage random senseless killing with little focus on why. And there was one or two points where it sounded like the main dude was voiced by Vegeta from DBZ. Oh and I think it goes without saying that Crysis 2 looked really good.

edit -- Oh and it bugged the hell out of me when Molyneux was on stage and bouncing back and forth from one leg to another. Ok so he wasn't bouncing and just shifting his weight or whatever, but it's still one of the most distracting things you can do while on stage or presenting something.

edit2 -- Laser tag Ubisoft?!! Laser tag!!!???!!! This is not a "shooter in real life away from the screen," it's called laser tag, and there have been a lot of attempts before yours to bring laser tag into houses. /angryrant

[ZAKtheGeek]

This thread is the first thing I've read about this conference and it sounds like it was really boring.

[Solid Snake]

It's interesting how, based on the few articles and blogs I've read lately, hardcore gamers and the casual populace seem to have very different perspectives on Microsoft's E3 conference. The casual populace seems thrilled to kooky levels over this Kinect technology. Meanwhile, the hardcore gamers were hoping for all kinds of announcements that just didn't happen (mostly regarding new game releases or hopes for sequels.)

[Bells]

i just thought that it was a lot of smoke and mirrors. A Lot of the stuff on Kinect is already done on the Wii (Maybe Kinect does it a tad better...?) and the stuff that is Kinect "only" had a lackluster or dubious presentation.

Like, the racing games... how do you accelerate? Brake? You just steer and boost?

[Kim]

Kinect is awesome in many ways... just not the gaming way. Child of Eden and Dance Central are the only actual games that look good for it.

[Mike McC]

There is only one thing to be said of the Ubisoft keynote.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2lk5l04.gif

That is all.

[Kim]

Colossal WHAT THE FUCK at Ubisofts thing. They tried to sell lasertag as a new and innovative video game, and how it's a "video game you don't need a screen for!" Then they did a thing about a stress relief game you play by breathing. There was a lot of really dumb shit this time around, and it climaxed when they had some people doing a really poorly choreographed dance to Michael Jackson's Beat It for NO FUCKING REASON.

[Arcanum]

Yeah I edited in my rage to my last post about the Laser Tag thing shortly after I saw it. The only remotely interesting part about Ubi's conference was Assassin's creed. Apparently in Driver you are now a dude in a coma who's just imagining everything and can possess other drivers and steal their cars. I won't even get started on the laser tag again, let alone the retarded 'get fit and energize yourself' stuff. I don't even think that last dance part was choreographed. When I was in grade 11 we choreographed a dance fight in my drama class that was part of a play for our exam, and it turned out a million times better than this crap. I can't even remember the number of times I literally face-palmed while watching that conference.

[Azisien]

Well there may be more before launch, or it'll just take a while. Reminds me of a certain other platform right around launch time in fact! I am concerned about its price still though. DDR is fun. $200 DDR is ennnnh. I'm ballparkin' it though, was a price announced?

I was disappointed enough in GoW2 that I'm having trouble being excited for GoW3. And I'm trying to not want to stab Kotick and his Activision while watching the new COD trailers. Man, I've become violent and cynical since last year!

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood looks interesting, although now I can't shake the thought of a washing machine full of Rabbids plummeting out of the sky during a key cutscene and mashing someone.

Also, yay! New standalone Rayman game! With an awesome looking art style.

[Arcanum]

Oh and Ghost Recon looks pretty good. My rage at everything else made me briefly forget about it, which makes me hate the rest of the conference even more.

[bluestarultor]

That Child of Eden thing looks amazing. I have no clue whatsoever what's going on (purifying corrupted sea beasties?), but it's visually and musically stunning while it does it. I hope it comes to the PS3.

Speaking of, it just occurred to me that the PlayStation Eye is capable (in theory) of basically everything Natal is. It has a great microphone system that can even pinpoint the location of the source and filter out echoes and noise, face recognition, gesture recognition, and head tracking. You wouldn't even necessarily need the Move. I mean, the known size of the sphere makes 3D tracking easy with edge detection, but then so would standing at a fixed distance or something and scanning yourself in.

The only purpose the Move serves is reducing overhead the PS3 can probably spare and providing buttons.

[phil_]

Also, yay! New standalone Rayman game! With an awesome looking art style.Did they mention a platform? I don't remember hearing anything about what platform it will be released on. I can speculate that it'll be an Xbox Arcade/PSN/WiiWare thing, but that's just my speculation. But, yeah, I'm sure that made some folks happy.

Also, Ubisoft's maniaplanet seems interesting, if only for Questmania. I can see something like Neverwinter Nights, but with an even larger player-base, and that makes me excited.

[DFM]

The only reason E3 2010 exists is to show me Saint's Row III and if I don't start hearing something about it soon I'm going to

[ZAKtheGeek]

Speaking of, it just occurred to me that the PlayStation Eye is capable (in theory) of basically everything Natal is. It has a great microphone system that can even pinpoint the location of the source and filter out echoes and noise, face recognition, gesture recognition, and head tracking. You wouldn't even necessarily need the Move. I mean, the known size of the sphere makes 3D tracking easy with edge detection, but then so would standing at a fixed distance or something and scanning yourself in.

The only purpose the Move serves is reducing overhead the PS3 can probably spare and providing buttons.
I don't know much but I was under the impression that hardware wasn't really what made Natal Natal Kinect.

[bluestarultor]

I don't know much but I was under the impression that hardware wasn't really what made Natal Natal Kinect.

I just find it funny that, in theory, the PS3 can handle not only Wii games, but anything that comes out for Kinect.

Sony could be marketing it as a versatile system that does everything everyone else does and more, but they've only touched on the Wii side.

Well, I suppose the EyePet does have you using your hands to pet it and stuff, but it's not like they made a big deal of it.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Oh, if we're just talking theoretically, then I guess yeah, that is kind of funny. Maybe even ironic.

But then you start talking about marketing and we cross the line into practical. That does not fly. You can talk theory all you want, but the fact is that there ain't no Mario on PS3.

[Arcanum]

That Child of Eden thing looks amazing. I have no clue whatsoever what's going on (purifying corrupted sea beasties?), but it's visually and musically stunning while it does it. I hope it comes to the PS3.

It is. Both this Kotaku article title (http://kotaku.com/5563293/this-is-basically-rez-for-the-playstation-move?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kotaku%2Ffull+%28Kotaku%29) and the ending of the trailer on the same page say that it's coming to the PS3.

[Mike McC]

The only reason E3 2010 exists is to show me Saint's Row III and if I don't start hearing something about it soon I'm going toI think they did show it! Didn't you see

http://i46.tinypic.com/2lk5l04.gif

?

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Did they mention a platform? I don't remember hearing anything about what platform it will be released on.

I think I remember seeing a Wii logo somewhere in there during the presentation, but I'm not sure. Seems the most likely option though.

[synkr0nized]

Thing I thought but didn't mention in the last thread: Why wasn't the Gears chick HUGE? She should have been HUUUUGE.


Anya has never been huge, so to make her as such now would be more retarded than making them thick as trucks to begin with.


It sounds like I've already read about some of the things they've showed. GG E3?

[Arcanum]

Trailer is here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-rayman-origins/101435) for Rayman, and no mention of a platform. I doubt gametrailers would just cut that part out. They also have no mention of a platform in the details below the clip. I'm really hoping it's multi-plat though, I mean there's really no reason it shouldn't be.

[bluestarultor]

Oh, if we're just talking theoretically, then I guess yeah, that is kind of funny. Maybe even ironic.

But then you start talking about marketing and we cross the line into practical. That does not fly. You can talk theory all you want, but the fact is that there ain't no Mario on PS3.

They've already said they're porting Wii games. All they'd have to do is convince developers to port Kinect games with whatever software libraries would be needed, which, essentially, probably wouldn't be all too different from what the 360 uses.

Motion controls have basically been the industry's (or at least Microsoft's) subtle hint that they're trying to end cross-platform titles, but if the dirty little secret is that it doesn't have to be that way, well...

It is. Both this Kotaku article title (http://kotaku.com/5563293/this-is-basically-rez-for-the-playstation-move?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kotaku%2Ffull+%28Kotaku%29) and the ending of the trailer on the same page say that it's coming to the PS3.

JOY! :D

[phil_]

Anya has never been hugeShe was an existing character? Sorry, I've never paid too much attention to the Gears' story and the Gears 3 thing came on just as I was waking up. I guess I'll change my question to "Why didn't they introduce a HUUUGE chick if they wanted a playable woman? Every character should be HUUUGE."

[bluestarultor]

She was an existing character? Sorry, I've never paid too much attention to the Gears' story and the Gears 3 thing came on just as I was waking up. I guess I'll change my question to "Why didn't they introduce a HUUUGE chick if they wanted a playable woman? Every character should be HUUUGE."

Because it's a MAN game for MEN. That means that the MEN are all walking refrigerators and the GIRL is a skinny hourglass with TITS.

[synkr0nized]

Gears 2 developed a sort of relationship for her and Marcus. And the whole "we are getting our asses kicked, so even comm officers need to get out there and fight" bit.


Really, though, as long as you have Baird and Cole you are unstoppable.

[Solid Snake]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18608_the-day-gaming-industry-died-impressions-from-e3-2010.html

This article essentially sums up why I have such a seething hatred for this Kinect and Move bullshit.

I want E3 to be about videogames, dammit. Actual videogames! Not gimmicks!

[Kim]

It's not half as bad as people make it out to be. Kinect's non-gaming purposes have some cool things, and even though that guy makes Dance Central look awful, most people who play DDR make it look awful. Dance Central has Harmonix behind it, and actually looks like it might be quite enjoyable. Additionally, Child of Eden really makes me want Kinect, even though I know it and Dance Central are the ONLY things I'd play on it. Furthermore, it looks like a lot more creative device, in its uses for the casual market, than the Wii. I mean, I'm not going to get it, but I can definitely understand why people would.


I want E3 to be about videogames, dammit. Actual videogames! Not gimmicks!

UGH

[Arcanum]

Best part of that article:

At one point the virtual cat licked the screen, and the little Asian girl giggled and reacted as if she was being licked and tickled by a real cat. The audience at the conference reacted in exactly the same way you react when you notice the homeless guy next to you on the subway is masturbating.

I have to admit, I reacted pretty much the same when I saw that.

[Kim]

Yeah, that was pretty awful.

[Bells]

I've played Just Dance for the wii, and i love it. I can tell you right now, it's not a Bit different than what you got with Dance Central. MAYBE better movement tracking and a nicer tutorial, but that's it.

Kinect doesn't seem worth of it's US$149 price tag for some Voice Commands and Hand Controlled menus...

Just watch the part when they first presented it again. With the Black guy (forgot his name now...) pay attetion to him, he barely moves his arms during the whole thing. In fact, it's plastered onto his sides unless he needs to do a movement... so it doesn't end any of my major concerns.

If you are watching a movie and the sound is nice and loud, can Kinect still hear you?

Can i ruin whatever i'm doing if myself or someone else moves or step in front of the camera?

Can i really annoy others by going "XBOX STOP" at random?

These are silly, non-gaming questions, but they can make a difference for people wanting to get Kinect for non-gaming reasons.

[Meister]

This is a neat idea: Harmonix posted an 11 minute video of their booth (http://vimeo.com/12578646).

[Bells]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/9/2010/06/017acbdad04458562bb565124b8e78a4/340x.gif

So, unless Nintendo comes out with a new Zelda that requires the vitaly sensor and Wiimotion Plus, i think they will probably do better than Microsoft.

[Azisien]

I think it's not been explicitly stated enough though: Microsoft has indeed created the first, true masterful griefing engine of the 21st century! It's gonna be fantastic.

MGS Rising was pretty cool looking. All in all a really terrible show though. Every single line felt so hopelessly scripted, I just couldn't even really believe the words coming out of their mouths. See, if I were running the presentation, I would have had a whole gag cinematic or some such based on last year's "Who wants to see what an Avatar's foot looks like?!" Maybe like he tries to look at his foot again a wormhole swallows the screen up and into a future apocalyptic landscape where giant Kinect cameras are shooting laser beams at buildings. That's how you impress gamers, man! Seriously though, almost none of the Kinect movements seemed to match with the players, or it was matching but with like a few seconds of lag. How is that playable though?

Or you could bribe them with free Xboxs. The new Xbox does look nice, but it's nothing I don't already have in my living room. I guess I'll get it if I get an RRoD? They could have sold it on me better if they had talked about actual better processes and such. A nominal performance increase, for instance.

[Meister]

I wonder if they give you one of the new boxes when your old one becomes irreparably broken while still under warranty. Cause the disc drive on mine sometimes doesn't read discs well and... :3:

[Doc ock rokc]

I wonder if they give you one of the new boxes when your old one becomes irreparably broken while still under warranty. Cause the disc drive on mine sometimes doesn't read discs well and... :3:

How old is it? because bought before 2007 will have expired in it's warranty.
Also I hate the new Xbox. Why? It's filled with the shit the original should have come with (wifi at least) I mean I spend 100 bucks for a wireless adapter and this thing comes out on the new version. Also It has Vents Something that it should have had to Prevent THE RED RING IN THE FIRST PLACE!

[Bells]

New Zelda looks like old Zelda but has Wiimotion Plus requirement

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd213/Zebruh/fuuuuu.jpg

EDIT: I'm watching Miyamoto play the new zelda with Wiimotion plus and it DOES NOT LOOK RESPONSIVE

EDIT 2: The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword is the name

[Meister]

I'm reading the Eurogamer live report but so far that seems like it sums it up pretty well.

e:
"Activision's new Goldeneye, exclusive to Wii, this holiday."
It's one thing to warm up old IPs but now they're warming up old movie based IPs.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I am going to save Nintendo Fanboys 150 bucks

Ganon is the Villain in the new Zelda. He kidnaps her and tries to take the triforce.

Bowser tries to kidnap Peach in the next Mario game.

Pokemon Black/White: 100 new pokemon to catch. Plus then there is the obligatory third game with more features.

The only thing I care about from Nintendo is the 3DS. That is it!

[Bells]

3DS

Metal Gear Solid
Kingdon Hearts
Kid Ikarus

I'm sure nintendo just took money from most of you guys here with that...

EDIT: I don't know what Sony will do, but Nintendo just destroyed Microsoft. Great Show indeed.

Although... the 3DS stuff was a tad better than the Wii stuff and New Zelda didn't quite "grabbed" me.

Forget new franchises, Nintendo knows you guys want old ones!!

[Solid Snake]

I'm just hoping the Nintendo 3DS is backwards compatible and can play regular DS games (even without the 3D effect in said games) as I really don't want to have to pull out two different DSes to play my games.

Nintendo was a decent conference -- terrible for the first half or so, but Donkey Kong Country 4 hooked me and made up for the disappointing new Zelda. The new Kid Icarus game also looks cool.

Also, I'm really hoping Kojima adapts Peace Walker for the 3DS.

[Carade]

Something is missing from Nintendo's E3 presentation. I just can't put my finger on it. (http://resetglitch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mother3.jpg)

[Meister]

Man talk about warming up old IPs.

I admit it though, all those Donkey Kong Country and Kirby and Kid Icarus trailers had me grinning. I don't even like Donkey Kong Country and Kid Icarus that much. Nice event.

[Kim]

I'm just hoping the Nintendo 3DS is backwards compatible and can play regular DS games (even without the 3D effect in said games) as I really don't want to have to pull out two different DSes to play my games.

That's already been confirmed.

Something is missing from Nintendo's E3 presentation. I just can't put my finger on it. (http://resetglitch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mother3.jpg)


I love Mother 3. It's one of the best jRPGs I've ever played. However, they just announced the 3DS. Mother 3 is a GBA title. Mother 3 will never see a US release. I get being annoyed, but there's a fan translation and Nintendo hasn't gone after them. It's time to move on.

[Roland]

Carade, I think you misspelled F-Zero.

Seriously though, I can't believe I actually want a 3DS now.

Damn it, Nintendo! Release it soon already! I'm going to be picking up an XL for Shantae if you don't and I'll feel like I wasted money again!

[phil_]

I haven't bought a hand-held since the Gameboy Color. Then Nintendo showed off Portable Fantasy Sin and Punishment in 3D. My interest in the 3DS has grown three sizes this day. I didn't hear a release date, though. :(

Yarn Kirby looks mighty neat. Zelda doesn't look too different from the Ocarina of Time model but with new controls.

But, yeah, Kid Icarus, I want it.

[Jagos]

It's one thing to warm up old IPs but now they're warming up old movie based IPs.

It's Activision. "Dead Horse" doesn't begin to describe what they do to their products.

[Solid Snake]

A list of the upcoming 3DS games (note: Most of these are listed by generic series as the companies haven't decided on official titles for the sequels yet, so it's safe to say that most the titles are actually sequels to established products as opposed to remakes, despite their generic names.)

Activision Publishing, Inc.
DJ Hero® 3D
AQ INTERACTIVE
cubic ninja
ATLUS
Etrian Odyssey
Shin Megami Tensei
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor
Capcom
RESIDENT EVIL® REVELATIONS
SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV 3D Edition (name not final)
Electronic Arts
FIFA Soccer
Madden NFL
The Sims™ 3
Gameloft
Asphalt GT
Harmonix
Music game
HUDSON SOFT
Bomberman franchise
DECA SPORTS franchise
KORORINPA franchise
KONAMI
Baseball franchise
Contra franchise
Frogger franchise
HIDEO KOJIMA’S METAL GEAR SOLID SNAKE EATER 3D
“The Naked Sample”
PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER franchise /
WINNING ELEVEN franchise
LEVEL-5
Professor Layton and the Mask of Miracle (name not final)
Majesco Entertainment
BloodRayne: The Shroud
A Boy and His Blob
Face Racers: Photo Finish
Lion’s Pride: Adventures on the Serengeti
Martha Stewart
WonderWorld Amusement Park
Marvelous Entertainment
BOKUJYOUMONOGATARI 3D (name not final)
NAMCO BANDAI Games
Dragon Ball® franchise (name not final)
Gundam® franchise (name not final)
PAC-MAN™ & GALAGA™ (name not final)
RIDGE RACER® (name not final)
Super Robot franchise (name not final)
Nintendo
Animal Crossing™
Kid Icarus™: Uprising
Mario Kart™
nintendogs™ + cats
Paper Mario™
PilotWings Resort™
Star Fox 64™ 3D
Steel Diver™
ROCKET
Crash-City GP
VS-robo
SEGA
Sonic (name not final)
Super Monkey Ball (name not final)
SQUARE ENIX
CODENAME: Chocobo Racing® 3D
DRAGON QUEST® franchise
FINAL FANTASY® franchise
KINGDOM HEARTS franchise
Take-Two Interactive
Carnival Games® franchise
TECMO KOEI GAMES
DEAD OR ALIVE® 3D (name not final)
DYNASTY WARRIORS® (name not final)
NINJA GAIDEN® (name not final)
SAMURAI WARRIORS® 3D (name not final)
TOMY
LOVELY LISA 3D
NARUTO SHIPPUDEN ACTION
THQ
de Blob 2
Kung Fu Panda Kaboom of Doom
Marvel Super Hero Squad Infinity Gauntlet
The Penguins of Madagascar
Puss N Boots
Saints Row: Drive-By
Ubisoft
Assassin’s Creed™ Lost Legacy
Battle of Giants™: Dinosaur Strike
Driver® Renegade
Hollywood 61 (name not final)
Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon™
Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell Chaos Theory™
Warner Bros
Batman franchise
LEGO franchise

...Yeah, I'm pretty sure that means Nintendo and 3DS just won E3.

EDIT: It's strange how I'm actually considerably more excited for a handheld system than any regular old console -- just shows how much the industry's changed I guess. But it's weird how I'm really looking forward to the 3DS yet have virtually no interest in the Wii (aside from that awesome DKC4, though I'm hoping that's released for 3DS anyway.)

[Carade]

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx349/add1ct3d/jiss-in-my-pants-295x300.jpg

[DFM]

Saints Row: Drive-By

This had better not fucking be it.

[Solid Snake]

http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/e3_2010/mgs3d/en/

...

Well, hot damn.

[phil_]

Carnival Games? Hot damn! :D

I like how the first screen shot on the Metal Gear site is a snake jumping out at the player. It's just like going to the movies except without the extra charge on the tickets.

Also, re-watching the Kid Icarus trailer on Nintendo's site, let me add something obvious that I missed in my first description. 3DS will have Portable Fantasy 3D Sin and Punishment with Multiple Weapons. I may be able to buy just that game and the system and feel like I've made a wise purchase.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

So in Kid Icarus, I'll be fighting the rejects from the Lich King's Scourge?

The voice is annoying.

[Donomni]

Kirby's Epic Yarn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvULlC9c7xg) has already guaranteed my purchase. I mean, seriously, Mecha Tank Kirby!

And those MGS3D screens... UUUUUGH.

I seriously want the 3DS, but I know there's gonna be a slim version and shit and fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

[Meister]

Watching modern businesspeople on a polished stage talk about a game called Killzone 3 feels downright dystopian.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Is there a link to the DKC4 trailer?

[Solid Snake]

So far, Sony's competing with Microsoft for my least favorite E3 presentation of all time.

[Meister]

I was going to make a joke about Peter Dille's voice breaking but now I'm just gonna say Kevin Butler is the kind of person I would very much like to hit in the face with a brick and I want Dille back.

e: what the fuck :wtf:

[Kim]

Sony is incredibly immature. It's kind of sad to watch.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Sony is incredibly immature. It's kind of sad to watch.

What are they doing now?

[Melfice]

What are they doing now?

Microsoft and Nintendo bashing.

And it's not subtle. Very sad to watch.

[Kim]

Mostly trying to take as many potshots at Nintendo and Microsoft as possible, which would be less annoying if the Move wasn't just a glowing Wiimote. Or if half the shit they were saying wasn't wholly innaccurate.

[Solid Snake]

...This is pretty much making me so ashamed to own a PS3 that I may actually consider it a blessing if UPS loses my PS3 in transit right now and I never see my PS3 again.

...Better yet, can I exchange my PS3 for a 3DS?

[Melfice]

...This is pretty much making me so ashamed to own a PS3 that I may actually consider it a blessing if UPS loses my PS3 in transit right now and I never see my PS3 again.

...Better yet, can I exchange my PS3 for a 3DS?

No... the PS3 is good machine with some great games.
Just... ignore the guys in charge.

[Kim]

The 3DS is getting an Ocarina of Time remake!

http://i45.tinypic.com/33z5hf6.jpg

I came.

[bluestarultor]

No... the PS3 is good machine with some great games.
Just... ignore the guys in charge.

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN! HE IS NO ONE!



Edit: Plus, the PS3 is the only game console that can claim it's helping police catch pedophiles instead of just helping pedophiles catch children, so there's that, too.

[Kim]

Sony's show was really underwhelming. There were a lot of games I was expecting to hear about, but didn't. Overall, I just wasn't remotely impressed.

[DFM]

During the Epic Mickey presentation the dude just said "Innovation has been a cornerstone of Disney and Nintendo."

[krogothwolf]

Microsoft and Nintendo bashing.

And it's not subtle. Very sad to watch.

So it's another typical E3 for Sony?

[Donomni]

So, yeah, Valve's surprise. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3179894)

Portal 2 for the PS3, with loads of other shit put in to support it. I also smell hints of Steam on the PS3, but my nose can't smell for shit anyways, so disregard that.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I'm a little excited for the new Assassin's Creed but that all pales in comparison to the fact that there is finally a new Legend of Zelda for the Wii!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

No... the PS3 is good machine with some great games.
Just... ignore the guys in charge.

This. I really don't care about who's in charge or the shit they do or say. I don't care about their motion controls or their 3d tvs. All I care about is what games they make, and there are still plenty coming out for the ps3 to keep me happy.

Killzone 3, inFamous 2, Portal 2, Bulletstorm, Brink, War for Cybertron, Colonial Marines, Warhammer 40k; Space Marines, Last Guardian, to name just a few.

I don't even care that most of those weren't shown at E3, because E3 hasn't been worth bothering with for years now. It's just not the same as it used to be.

But there are still plenty of games, and that's all that matters.

[mudah.swf]

The 3DS sounds absolutely amazing. Really nice to see fighting games embrace it, what with Dead or Alive and Super SFIV getting ports/entries on it. Mario Kart looks awesome too. Holy shit, Nintendo owned it this year.

[bluestarultor]

This. I really don't care about who's in charge or the shit they do or say. I don't care about their motion controls or their 3d tvs. All I care about is what games they make, and there are still plenty coming out for the ps3 to keep me happy.

Killzone 3, inFamous 2, Portal 2, Bulletstorm, Brink, War for Cybertron, Colonial Marines, Warhammer 40k; Space Marines, Last Guardian, to name just a few.

I don't even care that most of those weren't shown at E3, because E3 hasn't been worth bothering with for years now. It's just not the same as it used to be.

But there are still plenty of games, and that's all that matters.

It hasn't been the same since it closed its doors to the public. This isn't me being an angry gamer. It's just what I've noticed.

[krogothwolf]

The 2007-2008 years were horrid.

2009 wasen't so bad but the main thing that has killed E3 is how quickly information travels and how easy it is now for secrets or projects to get announced or found out beforehand. Plus everything lately seems to be about the next great gimmick.

[Carade]

I would do horrible, unforgivable things for a release date for the 3DS.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I'm a little excited for the new Assassin's Creed but that all pales in comparison to the fact that there is finally a new Legend of Zelda for the Wii!

Last year, I got to beat the pope with my hands.

I have no fucking clue how Ubisoft will top that. But I wait anxiously.

[Jagos]

I just saw Rock Band 3...

I want that one. >_<

[bluestarultor]

The 2007-2008 years were horrid.

2009 wasen't so bad but the main thing that has killed E3 is how quickly information travels and how easy it is now for secrets or projects to get announced or found out beforehand. Plus everything lately seems to be about the next great gimmick.

You have to consider that there are good reasons they're banking on gimmicks, though.

See, graphics have pretty much gotten as good as they're going to get. You have your meshes, and your textures, and your normal maps, and your UV maps. You have reflectivity, emissivity, and opacity for the outside of the skins, and in some applications, you even have "materials" to simulate a solid object contained by the skin with things like refraction index. You have HDR lighting, Bloom, self-shadowing-

You get the idea. Basically, we're at the point where there's nowhere left to go in terms of graphics. Minus the Wii, all the consoles, including computers, are pretty much capable of rendering as real as real life. And now Sony is trying to delve into actual pop-out 3D.

That's why there are no new consoles this year. The technology has essentially hit its limit. Instead of cranking out a new system, they've cranked out new control systems to try to hold our attention. The PS4 and XBox 720 will probably not roll in for another 5 years. Or more. By that time, I think the only thing they'll be able to add is out-of-order processing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-order_execution) to help with better A.I. Plus maybe the ability to render characters' pores purely in polygons.

[krogothwolf]

Last year, I got to beat the pope with my hands.

I have no fucking clue how Ubisoft will top that. But I wait anxiously.

Easy, Beat up Tom Cruise...that's the only way they can go now, Scientology as the main enemy.

[Jagos]

Holy shit! The powerglove is back!

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Easy, Beat up Tom Cruise...that's the only way they can go now, Scientology as the main enemy.

I would not be surprised is in the AC World that Scientologists were a branch of the Knights Templars!

[Kim]

I have no fucking clue how Ubisoft will top that. But I wait anxiously.

Seeing as the creative director or whatever supposedly left Ubisoft, and AC: Brotherhood starts off with Ezio's wife being fridged like a bad Marvel character, who says they're going to?

[Jagos]

Wait, what?

When did that happen? After the IW fiasco?

[Kim]

Wait, what?

When did that happen? After the IW fiasco?

IW has nothing to do with Ubisoft.

The theory is because AC is being sequelized like a motherfucker. I'm too lazy to grab the sources I've seen.

AC: B starting off with Ezio's wife being fridged is not a good sign, though.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

IW has nothing to do with Ubisoft.

The theory is because AC is being sequelized like a motherfucker. I'm too lazy to grab the sources I've seen.

AC: B starting off with Ezio's wife being fridged is not a good sign, though.

Umm...is there a video of that? I mean, do we know who it is?

I swear to god if it's Rosa I am torching Montreal to the ground.

[Jagos]

I thought that AC was supposed to be a trilogy in the first place?

IW has nothing to do with Ubisoft.

I was thinking about Activision for some reason and now the reason escapes me...

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I thought that AC was supposed to be a trilogy in the first place?



I'm thinking with things like AC: Bloodlines and Brotherhood it's over saturating the market.

Too be honest, I want to play AC: Bloodlines as there is some background stuff with Altair still.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I would just like to thank everyone for their frequent tweets and forum posts today that kept me up to date on the convention while I was stuck at work.

Also, yeah, 3DS.

[Solid Snake]

Oh, I'll concede this much: The PS3 is a fine system. Even though I'll never get into Move or the new 3D-with-glasses "craze" the PS3 is going to try to sell me, there will still be plenty enough games for me to enjoy on the PS3. And while the X360 and the Wii are both great systems that work well for its target gamers, when it comes to the big-TV-market consoles the PS3 was probably the best choice for me. (So long as The Last Guardian doesn't require Move and/or 3D...)

However, I'm much, much, much, much, much, much more interested in the 3DS, which at this juncture sounds like a legitimate contender for the single greatest system ever.

I'm not even kidding. You got a system that's going to support MGS3 and Ocarina of Time and a new Persona game and future Final Fantasy titles and fighting games and Resident Evil and Contra and Professor Layton and (probably) Phoenix Wright and just about every other great series you could imagine. If the 3DS meets its potential you're talking about a system that can handle remakes of all the glory titles from the PS1/PS2 and the SNES/N64/Gamecube and original DS games and plenty more new material.

It's all the greatness of Nintendo combined with plenty of third-party support. This system's going to put the PSP out of business, embarrass Microsoft and Sony, probably easily outclass the likes of the Nintendo Wii, cause the PS3 and the X360 to bend over backwards and lose ground to a handheld console that could legitimately dominate the market, and give us 3D without the need for glasses.

To say I'm mildly excited about the 3DS is a vast understatement. This is the best thing that could happen for old-timer hardcore video game fans like me in a very, very long time.

[Carade]

Geez man, if you love the system so much why don't you marry it?

[Solid Snake]

Geez man, if you love the system so much why don't you marry it?

I think the 3DS has already gotten plenty of marriage proposals today, but I'll gladly throw myself into the ring and compete for her undying affection.

[krogothwolf]

I thought it was Mario, Ezio's uncle that gets killed in the start so he seeks revenge on that, not a wife.

[Magus]

Perhaps its too early but did they talk about whether or not the 3DS would be crippled by DS-esque Friend Code BS shenanigans?

[krogothwolf]

Why is an IGN writer calling Nintendo the underdog?

[Carade]

HA HA.

Check it out guys. THIS GUY READS IGN.

HA HA.

[Solid Snake]

Why is an IGN writer calling Nintendo the underdog?

...

......

I'm trying to rationalize exactly how anyone could have watched that last E3 and concluded that Nintendo was the underdog.
...I mean, yeah, there's something of a case regarding the X360 and the PS3 over the Wii, you could theoretically make that argument and not be batshit insane, after all the PS3 and X360 have some technical strengths in that department.

...But the 3DS alone is going to wipe the floor with everything that came before it, and the 3DS alone is all Nintendo needs to dominate the others.

</my opinion>

[bluestarultor]

It's all the greatness of Nintendo combined with plenty of third-party support. This system's going to put the PSP out of business, embarrass Microsoft and Sony, probably easily outclass the likes of the Nintendo Wii, cause the PS3 and the X360 to bend over backwards and lose ground to a handheld console that could legitimately dominate the market, and give us 3D without the need for glasses.

To say I'm mildly excited about the 3DS is a vast understatement. This is the best thing that could happen for old-timer hardcore video game fans like me in a very, very long time.

While I agree the 3DS sounds great, do we know how it does 3D yet? Is it with that ridge technology that you have for birthday cards or does it just adjust the screen somehow?

I'd actually at least like to see some head tracking used in the consoles to be honest. The ridge technology has already been tested for TV use, but right now, it's cost-prohibitive, which is why TVs with glasses are the current method of choice. On a smaller screen like a handheld, the technical issues (alignment of the ridges, mostly) simply have less space to go wrong.

Man, though, I hope that Sony accounts for the cost of the ridged screens coming down in the next several years. Then maybe I'll be able to save up for a 3D Quattron or something, since they're trying to push the RGBY setup and it might catch on.

[Magus]

I dunno why they're the underdog, maybe because everyone continually assumes they will fail or have failed despite making the most money and profit with the least graphics technology? People prefer to live in their own reality where Nintendo is an underdog because 50% of the people on the internet with strong enough opinions to bother bringing them to bear don't like Nintendo.

EDIT: All I know for 3DS 3D right now is there's a little slider on the side that you adjust until it looks right to you. There's no "head position recognition" technology involved, you just adjust it until it's not blurry/overlapped.

[Solid Snake]

While I agree the 3DS sounds great, do we know how it does 3D yet? Is it with that ridge technology that you have for birthday cards or does it just adjust the screen somehow?

Hideo Kojima was willing to appear in a Nintendo E3 video to extol the virtues of the 3DS, and he's willing to remake Metal Gear Solid 3 to prove just how awesome the 3DS can be.

...Maybe I'm just a huge MGS fanatic (okay, let's be honest: I am a huge MGS fanatic) but somehow, that's more than enough for me.
...Well, that and the hordes of other respectable developers who are creating new content for the 3DS and ignoring every other console and handheld on the market apparently, as evidenced by the fact that Microsoft and Sony had virtually no new titles to announce during E3.

[Magus]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=251716

We've just seen a special Metal Gear Solid Snake Eater demo, and we're blown away.

A slider on the right-hand side of the machine allows you to adjust the depth of vision you require. We begun in Metal Gear in a woodland area - and it took some customising to correct our field of vision. But once we did, the super-sharp splendour that fell out in front of us really was something to behold.

Robust, spiky foliage poked out of the ground and seemed to tickle the back of the DS screen. Meanwhile, we watched arrows flung in our direction soar through the air towards us - from what seemed like 50 metres away.

The neatest touch was some searing orange butterflies, which at one point (in our peripheral vision), we would have sworn actually flew out of the machine. Yes, we ducked.

The one slight letdown of 3DS is that nothing actually 'jumps out' of the screen in your direct vision. This is much more about what's going on in the background.

But occasionally, just when you're not looking, something tricks your eye by poking out just to the side of your glance. It's a pleasure to be fooled.

This all has to be taken, of course, in the context of not wearing any glasses at all.

These visuals aren't filtered through clever technology in front of your eye. It's an immediate, comfortable experience - one which it's little wonder third party publishers are flocking towards.

[Solid Snake]

...Think Gamestop is accepting pre-orders now? Because this may the the first console I actually want so bad I'm buying it the very day it becomes available.

The 3DS has restored my faith in the gaming industry.

[krogothwolf]

I don't understand why they'd think Nintendo=Underdog, they are the longest lasting console maker after all.

[Krylo]

...Think Gamestop is accepting pre-orders now? Because this may the the first console I actually want so bad I'm buying it the very day it becomes available.

The 3DS has restored my faith in the gaming industry.

I wouldn't.

Ask yourself a few things:

1) When has 3D ever NOT looked like shit in the history of mankind?*

2) What are the odds that a video game company magically invented super not-shitty 3D?**

3) IF they did, why wouldn't they be licensing it to goddamn everyone so that they could roll around in giant pools filled with thousand dollar bills?***

I'm not saying it's impossible, mind. What I AM saying is that I would wait a few days, maybe even a few weeks, to see what response to it is once people actually have it in their hands. Preferably, you'd be able to actually see it yourself.

*Never.
**Pretty slim.
***There is no good reason.


EDIT: If you don't already have a DS, though, it is backwards compatible, so, yeah, buy that shit day one in that case. The DS itself is a very strong system.

[Jagos]

FINALLY! A game that's not based in New York or California!

(Infamous 2)

[stefan]

I don't understand why they'd think Nintendo=Underdog, they are the longest lasting console maker after all.

because admitting that the "hardcore" companies are getting their asses kicked by a company primarily interested in fun games for everybody is something they can't bring themselves to admit.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Last year, I got to beat the pope with my hands.

I have no fucking clue how Ubisoft will top that. But I wait anxiously.

I just kneed him in the crotch until he stopped moving, but that's just my personal style. I'm pretty sure that they'll find a way to top that. Maybe we'll smear feces all over the Sistine chapel.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

FINALLY! A game that's not based in New York or California!

(Infamous 2)

What have they said about that?

[Solid Snake]

1) When has 3D ever NOT looked like shit in the history of mankind?*

Read Magus' article: the 3DS isn't going for the full Avatar-style 3D effects, the 3D acts more as a subtle factor in the background that occasionally surprises you but never quite obtrusively interrupts the experience. Honestly, I think it's the perfect way to handle 3D: a far superior approach than Sony's taking now.

2) What are the odds that a video game company magically invented super not-shitty 3D?**

I don't know. All I do know is that Hideo Kojima, and the makers of the Persona games and Resident Evil and Contra and Devil Survivor and Final Fantasy and Professor Layton and (insert my favorite series here) are all apparently behind this.
It's an all-star lineup that Sony and Microsoft sorely lack, given that Sony's big announcement this year was (of all things) a new Twisted Metal game.

EDIT: If you don't already have a DS, though, it is backwards compatible, so, yeah, buy that shit day one in that case. The DS itself is a very strong system.

I own a DS Lite, and I love my DS Lite.
...I'm about five times more excited for this 3DS than I ever was for another DS product.

Hell, forget about the 3D effects and just look at the improvements in the graphics department: the DS can now handle Metal Gear Solid 3 with apparent ease. That's a huge upgrade. Lots more developers and lots more games are going to come to this system now.

[Krylo]

Read Magus' article: the 3DS isn't going for the full Avatar-style 3D effects, the 3D acts more as a subtle factor in the background that occasionally surprises you but never quite obtrusively interrupts the experience. Honestly, I think it's the perfect way to handle 3D: a far superior approach than Sony's taking now. I did.

A couple CVG (which I've never heard of, thus my initial misremembering the site) guys fangasming over downplayed 3D doesn't really change my opinion of 'I'll believe it when I see it'.

Also, they contradict themselves on that point, noting that they ducked a few times during play, and that arrows seemed to come out of the screen at them, and then backtrack to talking about how it's unobtrusive corner of the eye stuff.

[stefan]

1) When has 3D ever NOT looked like shit in the history of mankind?*

Avatar didn't look to bad. Everything except the shiny was utter shit, mind you, but the shiny was nice looking.


2) What are the odds that a video game company magically invented super not-shitty 3D?**

They didn't "Magically" invent it, they've been working on it for over a year at the LEAST.


3) IF they did, why wouldn't they be licensing it to goddamn everyone so that they could roll around in giant pools filled with thousand dollar bills?***

Did you watch Nintendo's keynote? if you did, did you miss the fuckhuge list of 3rd party devs Nintendo has lined up to release on the 3DS?


I'm not saying it's impossible, mind. What I AM saying is that I would wait a few days, maybe even a few weeks, to see what response to it is once people actually have it in their hands.

There are already reports and articles out from people playing the 3DS on the e3 floor. The response has pretty much been a unanimous "oh god this is amazing my body was not ready," if not in those exact words.

[Magus]

The unobtrusive background stuff IS SO AMAZING you don't even notice it until it makes you feel like YOU'RE ON A ROLLERCOASTER FLYING THROUGH HELL, I guess?

[Krylo]

They didn't "Magically" invent it, they've been working on it for over a year at the LEAST.

The point was they're not a company that works with attempting to innovate displays. They work on innovating things that interface with displays. Them inventing the new wave of 3D is kind of ridiculous. EDIT: This would be like Unotron (a keyboard company) announcing they just invented Smell-O-Vision.

ALSO: Having a bunch of third parties is not the same as licensing the tech to everyone.

There are no TV companies announcing that they are going to have 3DS technology, no movie theaters, etc. etc.

But fuck it, I've attempted pointing out that the hype is probably way more ridiculous than it should be allowed to be for something Nintendo did before.

I know how this goes.

I'll get back to you guys after its released and 3DS+ comes out two years later to fix all the glitches and problems. Except not really.

[Solid Snake]

I did.

A couple CVG (which I've never heard of, thus my initial misremembering the site) guys fangasming over downplayed 3D doesn't really change my opinion of 'I'll believe it when I see it'.

Also, they contradict themselves on that point, noting that they ducked a few times during play, and that arrows seemed to come out of the screen at them, and then backtrack to talking about how it's unobtrusive corner of the eye stuff.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, a true sign of my interest in the 3DS and its astronomical potential (in my opinion, at least) is that the 3D element is only a small supporting element of minor interest for me. It's the graphical update and the huge catalog of first and third-party games I love that excite me: the 3D shenanigans constitutes mere icing on the cake.

[Kim]

They didn't "Magically" invent it, they've been working on it for over a year at the LEAST.Supposedly they've been working on it since the Gamecube days.

There are no TV companies announcing that they are going to have 3DS technologyActually, the screen is supposedly manufactured by a TV company, I can't remember which one. I figure if a TV company made the screen they'll probably be using it for TVs at some point. The main reason it might not be in major TVs yet is that making massive HD screens with this technology might be too expensive right now. As in, if they sold it for expensive enough to make a decent profit, nobody would buy it, especially when Sony is selling their fancy awesome 3D HDTVs.

That aside, it doesn't seem like any of the games are built more around the 3D than being an actual game at this point, and it's a definite upgrade over the DS, and has a lot of good looking games coming out for it, so even if the 3D is underwhelming, you can actually slide the scale back to turn it completely off. So yeah, I really don't see what the problem is.

[stefan]

There are no TV companies announcing that they are going to have 3DS technology, no movie theaters, etc. etc.


The technology that makes the 3DS tick, if I understand correctly, involves the screen "targeting" a focal point at a certain point away from the screen. This is very useful for a handheld gaming console, not so much for a TV thats going to be viewed from several different angles.

[Krylo]

That's what I thought until I read Magus's article which states that you are seeing things in the corner of your eye and arrows are flying out of the screen at you etc.

That's not how such a program--which is called head tracking--would work. I've seen how head tracking would work, and it's pretty cool, though I'm not 100% sure I'd want to play a handheld game with it (where any time I adjust my grip on the screen my view point in the game would change and have to be readjusted). Though that's the only platform such a system would work on a hand held. Edit: I guess you could sell special monitors with cameras on the top to work with PC games, but the logistics of making them work would be pretty obnoxious, and you'd be forced to always and only play on full screen mode to get the proper view.

However, head tracking doesn't make things fly out of the screen at you. What it does, is makes the screen like one of those picture boxes lots of kids made as children. If you look at it at different angles you get a different view. However, everything stays contained within the screen (even if it does look like it's on 3D world in there).

[Kyanbu The Legend]

The fact that it's an actual new console with graphic close to/beyond the GameCubes alone makes it worth the reserve.


Edit: it's off now never mind.

Not to mention it's got a lot of decent launch title set for release.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Hey look. MvsC3 Footage! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V3M_6tEdbM) Kinda limits Deadpool as I wouldn't have minded seeing some of his specials.

[bluestarultor]

So I guess what we're talking about with the 3DS is some fancy software z-index scaling and possibly head tracking?

Well, it's interesting, I'll admit. Actually, for a handheld console, it's probably for the best, since the other options would be:


glasses - pro: works at all angles; con: eyestrain, requires batteries, batteries mean weight, color perception may be adversely impacted
ridged screen technology - pro: no glasses, colors stay just fine; con: requires incredible manufacturing precision, limited effective angle, some people have reported disorientation

[Jagos]

What have they said about that?

1) You're going to basically change into a demigod when all is said and done

2) It's based in New Orleans' history

3) No matter how you see it, I have yet to see a lot of games based on the deep south in anyway shape or form. This is pretty damn awesome.

[Krylo]

Supposedly they've been working on it since the Gamecube days.

Actually, the screen is supposedly manufactured by a TV company, I can't remember which one. I figure if a TV company made the screen they'll probably be using it for TVs at some point. The main reason it might not be in major TVs yet is that making massive HD screens with this technology might be too expensive right now. As in, if they sold it for expensive enough to make a decent profit, nobody would buy it, especially when Sony is selling their fancy awesome 3D HDTVs.

That aside, it doesn't seem like any of the games are built more around the 3D than being an actual game at this point, and it's a definite upgrade over the DS, and has a lot of good looking games coming out for it, so even if the 3D is underwhelming, you can actually slide the scale back to turn it completely off. So yeah, I really don't see what the problem is.

Just noticed your edit.

It's Sharp (I'm pretty sure), yeah.

However, that just makes this all the more iffy (http://www.pcworld.com/article/193252/sharp_thinks_small_for_3d_screens.html).

Like you said, everything that ISN'T the 3D still looks pretty good, it's just I was under the mistaken impression that Snake was super excited, at least in part, because of the innovative 3D viewing.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Kirby! Kirby Kirby Kirby! Looks like he can't fly. Is that a grappling hook? It looks kind of like a grappling hook. It took them like 6 years but in the end they got a grappling hook in my Kirby. Fuck yes dawg.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I maybe in the minority, but I don't like the new Kirby. The way I see it. I waited 6 years for yarn.

[Kim]

Size (when closed):
Approximately 134mm wide, 74mm long, 21mm inches thick.
Weight:
230g.
Top Screen:
3.53-inch widescreen LCD display, enabling 3D view without the need for special glasses; with 800×240 pixel resolution (400 pixels are allocated for each eye to enable 3D viewing).
Touch Screen:
3.02-inch LCD with 320×240 pixel resolution with a touch screen.
Cameras:
One inner camera and two outer cameras with 640×480 (0.3 Mega) pixel resolution.
Nintendo 3DS Game Card:
2 GB max at launch.
Wireless Communication:
Can communicate in the 2.4 GHz band. Multiple Nintendo 3DS systems can connect via a local wireless connection to let users communicate or enjoy competitive game play. Systems also can connect to LAN access points to access the Internet and allow people to enjoy games with others.
Will support IEEE 802.11 with enhanced security (WPA/WPA2). Nintendo 3DS hardware is designed so that even when not in use, it can automatically exchange data with other Nintendo 3DS systems or receive data via the Internet while in sleep mode.
Game Controls:
Touch screen, embedded microphone, A/B/X/Y face buttons, + Control Pad, L/R buttons, Start and Select buttons, “Slide Pad” that allows 360-degree analog input, one inner camera, two outer cameras, motion sensor and a gyro sensor.
Other Input Controls:
3D Depth Slider to adjust level of 3D effect (can be scaled back or turned off completely depending on the preference of the user), Home button to call system function, Wireless switch to turn off wireless communications (even during game play), Power button. The telescoping stylus is approximately 4 inches when fully extended.
Input/Output:
A port that accepts both Nintendo 3DS game cards and game cards for the Nintendo DS™ family of systems, an SD memory card slot, an AC adapter connector, a charging cradle terminal and a stereo headphone output jack.
Sound:
Stereo speakers positioned to the left and right of the top screen.
Battery:
Lithium ion battery, details TBA. Specs look nice. Like I pointed out before, even if the 3D doesn't really work, you can turn it off, and there are plenty of other reasons to get it besides the 3D. I'll give the 3D a chance and see how well it works before making a final decision on it. And it supposedly comes out in March of next year.

I maybe in the minority, but I don't like the new Kirby. The way I see it. I waited 6 years for yarn.As opposed to waiting six years for another Kirby Superstars rehash?

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

1) You're going to basically change into a demigod when all is said and done

2) It's based in New Orleans' history

3) No matter how you see it, I have yet to see a lot of games based on the deep south in anyway shape or form. This is pretty damn awesome.

I saw the trailer and noticed two things.

Cole has a weapon and he is fighting an Eldritch Abomination.

[Solid Snake]

Like you said, everything that ISN'T the 3D still looks pretty good, it's just I was under the mistaken impression that Snake was super excited, at least in part, because of the innovative 3D viewing.

It's not entirely inaccurate. I mean, I am definitely excited about the possibility of 3D gaming on a console working without glasses. And reports from the E3 floor from those who've used the product seem quite optimistic in this regard.

I'm far more excited about the extensive library of games, though. Kid Icarus looked pretty neat, but once I saw that gigantic list of titles to be released (which I quickly reposted here earlier,) I mean, that's the moment my jaw hit the floor. We've never had a console (in recent years, anyway) that so fully enjoyed such broad support from such a wide variety of third party franchises. And we'll still have Nintendo's extensive first-party library as well. It's akin to a Utopian nirvana I could only previously imagine, one in which a single console seems capable of playing nearly every series I thoroughly adore.

[Krylo]

Specs look nice. Like I pointed out before, even if the 3D doesn't really work, you can turn it off, and there are plenty of other reasons to get it besides the 3D. I'll give the 3D a chance and see how well it works before making a final decision on it.


This is all I was saying, but I guess Stefan took personal affront to me saying negative things about the potentiality of Nintendo's 3D being super awesome like its been billed.

Edit: So you're just excited about a hand held modern-tech SNES?

Awesome. Totally get that. Miss the days when I didn't need to own 3 consoles as well.

I'll have to give the title list a better look later, and see how many are honest to god new games and not rereleases that I've already played/own on console. It might be something I'm interested in in that propensity as well.

Though I'm not a fan of handhelds in general.

[Kim]

This is all I was saying, but I guess Stefan took personal affront to me saying negative things about the potentiality of Nintendo's 3D being super awesome like its been billed.


Well, you made a point about comparing it to the Wii, which I think is an unfair comparison because, unlike the Wii, if the "gimmick" sucks you can turn it off. You don't have that in your favor with the Wii.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

That's pretty much why most of us are interested in the 3DS.

Because of the games in the fact that it's not gimmick heavy.

[bluestarultor]

Hey, guys! Methinks I found what makes the 3DS tick. According to Wikipedia, it's a parallax barrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_barrier).

That would at least explain why you can adjust it.

[Magus]

It is 128 bit besides. Unless Sony comes out with a PSP that has graphics the same as a PS3 I think we are safe to assume this is a good enough graphical upgrade, even if the 3D sucks (which we can apparently turn off).

I for one am not going to buy the first edition of it though because as you have said Krylo there will be like 4 more versions of it that are better.

[Krylo]

3DS Lite--2013.

To talk about something that isn't Nintendo, though--just checked out the InFamous 2 trailer.

Am underwhelmed.

Cole's new voice is... well it's not terrible in general, but it is compared to his old voice. Also, it doesn't seem to have a whole lot in common past the whole electricity schtick. Cole's personality was way too light hearted, and everything looked so... different.

The first one was awesome and totally left room for a sequel, but I have some trepidation on this as it stands, currently.

It still has plenty of time to change my mind, however, and there really wasn't much to that trailer.

[Kim]

I for one am not going to buy the first edition of it though because as you have said Krylo there will be like 4 more versions of it that are better.If you want to avoid this you're pretty much just going to have to only buy any console after its successor is out.


On the subject of not-Nintendo. A lot of the shooters looked good, though, as I mentioned before, Medal of Honor being in Afghanistan makes me uncomfortable. Looking forward to Crysis 2 because there's no way in hell I'll ever get to play the first one. Portal 2 looks cool, but... well... We already knew it would be. Bulletstorm felt very Painkiller-esque, which is more than a good thing. Most of the Move/Kinect stuff didn't interest me, but if I ever get a chance to try either of them out without buying Kinect, I definitely want to try Child of Eden and Dance Central out. I dig DDR, despite being awful at it, so Dance Central might be fun.

I was disappointed that we didn't really see anything new about The Old Republic, and that we didn't get anything on KH3, FF Versus XIII, Mass Effect 3, or Dragon Age 2. Even if it was just cinematic trailers or someone talking about them it would have been better than nothing. I mean, I guess I'm glad that ME3 and DA2 aren't being rushed out the door ASAP, but it would have vastly improved the non-Nintendo conferences for me.

EDIT: They've got the Spirit Tracks team working on Skyward Sword. FFFFFFFF-

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Does nobody care about the new Zelda?! I'm a huge Zelda fan and everything I'm hearing about Skyward Sword makes me want it more.

[Kim]

I'm excited for the new Zelda. I like the art style. Just don't like that the Spirit Tracks people are working on it. That and it sounds like it'll be more linear, though I could be misinterpreting things.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I'm still flipping through the E3 stuff bit by bit. So I didn't know about Skyward Sword.

[Bells]

So... i was the only one who enjoyed Sony presentation?

I mean, i got a few Youtube videos out of it and a Few play-by-play reads on IGN and Kotaku... but i really liked what i saw.

So they tossed a few jabs at the competition, who cares? These guys are competitors, enough with the "Fake Gentleman Routine", they didn't take it too far, it was just a few subtle pokes it got their laughs, life goes on.

As far as "Putting a show" Goes, i would Say that Sony made their conference with a better pace and more Fun to watch than nintendo. Nintendo had a more serious tone, while Sony used a more "Frat house Party" tone. I don't mind. We are talking about games and fun, and they didn't push it too hard anyway...

As for Content, i would say that Sony actually stayed ahead with a barrage of New titles and very strong line up.

Sure, on the Portable area Nintendo dominated. But it's silly to compare Portable with Console.

As for the Move? They showed games. Not just "Move Games" which were all fine anyway, but also a ton of future Hardcore and Well know franchises and games with Move. That, for me, makes up for the higher overall price tag.

[Carade]

Hey, guys! Methinks I found what makes the 3DS tick. According to Wikipedia, it's a parallax barrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_barrier).

That would at least explain why you can adjust it.

Dibs on Parallax Barrier as a rock band name.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

So... i was the only one who enjoyed Sony presentation?

I mean, i got a few Youtube videos out of it and a Few play-by-play reads on IGN and Kotaku... but i really liked what i saw.

So they tossed a few jabs at the competition, who cares? These guys are competitors, enough with the "Fake Gentleman Routine", they didn't take it too far, it was just a few subtle pokes it got their laughs, life goes on.

As far as "Putting a show" Goes, i would Say that Sony made their conference with a better pace and more Fun to watch than nintendo. Nintendo had a more serious tone, while Sony used a more "Frat house Party" tone. I don't mind. We are talking about games and fun, and they didn't push it too hard anyway...

As for Content, i would say that Sony actually stayed ahead with a barrage of New titles and very strong line up.

Sure, on the Portable area Nintendo dominated. But it's silly to compare Portable with Console.

As for the Move? They showed games. Not just "Move Games" which were all fine anyway, but also a ton of future Hardcore and Well know franchises and games with Move. That, for me, makes up for the higher overall price tag.

It's safe to say a lot of us hate the silly old "console wars" thing by now. So Sony poking fun was a bit unneeded (and this is coming from me, someone who worships the ground they walk on). I love it when they brag but poking fun at MS and Nintendo after they nearly screwed them selves over with the PS3 during it's first year kind makes me want to reconsider investing in the PS3 now. Besides the piano black 360 slim is so sexy and a step up from the original with no RoD problems as promised. Still kils your discs if you move it around too much though.

[Arcanum]

Holy crap I spend most of my day playing HeartGold and this thread explodes with Nintendo fanboyism. But in all seriousness, I just finished watching the Sony presser (haven't watched Nintendo's yet) and I'm in the same boat as Bells. I enjoyed it, which is a million times better than what I felt while watching the junk that aired yesterday. Loved the demos and the trailers they showed for new games, and I liked how the Dead Space 2 demo continued off from where the EA one ended. And yeah they tried to hype up the PSP, which is understandable for them to try and do despite how they know full well the PSP will never compare the DS (or 3DS for that matter).

Even the PS Move stuff I enjoyed watching much more than Microsoft's Kinect. Sorcery caught my attention, even if it does seem kinda childish/simple/gimmicky (still not sure of a good word to describe it). I was disappointed with Heroes on the Move though. The concept of mashing Ratchet and Clank, Jack and Daxter, and Sly Cooper into one game is awesome, but they should have kept the core mechanics of the respective games intact while jumbling the characters together in a trans-dimensional kerfuckle, instead of making it a gimmicky Move title.

Oh, and on the note of Infamous 2, are you guys sure that's Cole McGrath As the main character? Because it's not only a different setting, but a different voice, different look, and the only real link is the electricity powers and the game's title.

Anyway I'm off to go watch Nintendo's presser now.

edit -- oh and I loved Kevin Butler's speech. It was funny, and I doubt Microsoft or Nintendo took it seriously so why should we?

[bluestarultor]

Valve officially wins everything. I just read this: http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6265808/portal-2-steamworks-ps3-bound-in-2011?tag=top_stories%3Btitle%3B4

That kind of presentation isn't something you see unless The Undertaker makes a surprise appearance and the video sent a chill down my spine with a sense of dread (in a good way), and I haven't even PLAYED Portal.

[Solid Snake]

I liked Sony's presentation a tad more than Microsoft's, though really that was just because of Kevin Butler's speech (which I did enjoy, although it was awkward that his speech hyped up hardcore gaming just before the conference returned to obsess over casual Move titles) and Portal 2. Essentially, Move makes ever so slightly more sense than Kinect and Sony had Portal 2 while Microsoft had virtually nothing that held my interest: that was pretty much the difference for me.

What was immensely disappointing for me though included the facts that:

- Aside from Twisted Metal (and I don't care much about that series), nothing new and exciting for the PS3 was announced. Most of the games were titles we already knew were coming. Without any surprises, it just felt predictable and stale.

- There was an excessive number of repetitive montages. Seriously, that last montage only included games already discussed in the conference.

- The PS3 part of the conference introduced plenty of casual Move games, games for younger players (Sorcery,) MMOs (FFXIV), and FPSes (Killzone 3), sports (Golf) and racing games (Gran Turismo 5). These are all genres that do not interest me. Meanwhile, RPGs and third-person action games were almost uniformly ignored. (Where was FFXIII Versus, KH3, Uncharted 3 or The Last Guardian? Those are all games I'm really looking forward to hearing about.)

- This led to the awkward moment when I realized that the PSP games hyped up during their PSP montage actually interested me considerably more than anything shown for the PS3, despite the fact that I will never purchase a PSP because All My Love Are Belong to 3DS.

- Sony really should have procured at least one epic, unexpected surprise. To compete with Nintendo's 3DS announcement and really take a dagger to Microsoft's throat, they needed something like the oft-rumored FFVII HD remake, KH3, a new epic RPG project, a new Silent Hill or something, anything like that. The Last Guardian could have done the trick and I still can't figure out why the hell Sony kept that one under wraps.

- Sony and Microsoft both put way too much emphasis on Move and Kinect at the expense of all the more sophisticated games they should be showcasing that don't revolve around motion sensor controls. By concentrating on an innovation the Wii has already practically monopolized, Sony and Microsoft lost their chances to come up with a new original concoction or gimmick that would have ultimately served them better by offering a unique way to play games.

- The HD 3D concept felt outdated already after the 3DS announcement, and I'm just not the least bit interested in wearing those glasses while playing an HD game. As a PS3 owner, I'll never be interested in taking "advantage" of the 3D option.

- Why the hell didn't they do anything with The Last Guardian, again? That really should have been a no-brainer.

EDIT: - How could I have forgotten that annoying black kid who's now the PSP's unofficial mascot? Those commercials annoyed me and cost us valuable time that could have been discussed talking about games as opposed to marketing strategies. That's where the Nintendo conference really shined: it was less about commercials and montages and more about showing us new hardware and talking about a massive list of third-party support.

[Bells]

Valve officially wins everything. I just read this: http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6265808/portal-2-steamworks-ps3-bound-in-2011?tag=top_stories%3Btitle%3B4

That kind of presentation isn't something you see unless The Undertaker makes a surprise appearance and the video sent a chill down my spine with a sense of dread (in a good way), and I haven't even PLAYED Portal.

In video Form, for you, and those who want a Youtube option for this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuwxOQ4V9tQ

I really think the whole Portal 2 thing was a very very nice and welcomed twisted. I actually thought there for a second that the whole "Valve Hates the PS3" was actually fake, and a setup for this... but maybe they just sat down and talked a bit more about this?

Also, Portal seems like it would be a fun game to use with the Playstation Move.

[Jagos]

Kevin Butler is pretty damn funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RVZoj_8PKY)

[Bells]

I'll say that i'm honestly surprised that nobody bashed Sony for the Coca-Cola deal. Although it was rather quick, instead of the dragged out (yet amusing) ESPN bit on microsoft's end.

The fun part is that you can place the 3 presentations by their respective Show-Gimmick.

Microsoft - Everyone gets a free 360 Slim
Nintendo - Everyone gets to play with a 3DS strapped to a gorgeous lady
Sony - Kevin Buttler speech

[Magus]

Man, what a crock, I expected Kevin Bacon and I got the guy off the PS3 commercials!

[Jagos]

What? Where?

(Fixed)

[Magus]

Why change Jerry Lambert's name to the not-at-all-action-movie-sounding Kevin Butler, anyway? His name should've been Kurt Steel or something.

[Azisien]

Wow that EA conference was so awful I think I'm going to not watch anything else and go shower instead. That dude after the NFS demo pretty much summed it up with the "It doesn't get any better than that." How right he was, how right he was. Even Bioware let me down.

[Jagos]

Why change Jerry Lambert's name to the not-at-all-action-movie-sounding Kevin Butler, anyway? His name should've been Kurt Steel or something.

He's a CEO type... Come on...

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I am going to say this. The only way I will get excited for any S-E/Quintet game is if they do one thing:

Release Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma as a Nintendo 3DS Remake. Those games are criminally underrated.

I don't care if you have to buy the damn company.

[Jagos]

Lufia II needs a return.

Not a remake, return. That's all I'm sayin.

[Kim]

But it's already getting a remake. Is a return different from that?

[bluestarultor]

- The PS3 part of the conference introduced plenty of casual Move games, games for younger players (Sorcery,) MMOs (FFXIV), and FPSes (Killzone 3), sports (Golf) and racing games (Gran Turismo 5). These are all genres that do not interest me. Meanwhile, RPGs and third-person action games were almost uniformly ignored. (Where was FFXIII Versus, KH3, Uncharted 3 or The Last Guardian? Those are all games I'm really looking forward to hearing about.)

Am I the only one who'd actually play Sorcery? There's a mite difference between a kiddie game and an all-ages game. For me, that looked on the border, but it also looked fun, if unfinished. Kind of like if you only had part of the first Harry Potter book.

- Sony really should have procured at least one epic, unexpected surprise. To compete with Nintendo's 3DS announcement and really take a dagger to Microsoft's throat, they needed something like the oft-rumored FFVII HD remake, KH3, a new epic RPG project, a new Silent Hill or something, anything like that. The Last Guardian could have done the trick and I still can't figure out why the hell Sony kept that one under wraps.

FFVII will never get an HD remake. Everyone needs to get over it. The original is on PSN for $9.99. People would not pay $59.99 to get the same game with shinier graphics.

Plus, KH3, if it's even in development yet, would be so unfinished that showing it would be pointless. The Last Guardian would be more understandable, given it was already shown.

- Sony and Microsoft both put way too much emphasis on Move and Kinect at the expense of all the more sophisticated games they should be showcasing that don't revolve around motion sensor controls. By concentrating on an innovation the Wii has already practically monopolized, Sony and Microsoft lost their chances to come up with a new original concoction or gimmick that would have ultimately served them better by offering a unique way to play games.

They're selling their next system. Nobody would complain if it was the PS4 and XBox 720. And sophisticated games? The release schedule looks like a salt flat at the moment. It's not a matter of there being only motion control games shown. It's a matter of those motion control games being all they have TO show. Nomura said as much that FFVSXIII was probably not going to be shown, and that's really the biggest RPG short of The Last Guardian that anyone has to offer. They had to fill out space with something.

[Kim]

People would not pay $59.99 to get the same game with shinier graphics.Yes, they really would. You might not want to think they would, but they would. That said, I'm banking on an FFVII remake for the 3DS, not because I'm particularly eager to play FFVII, but that just seems the most likely scenario to me.

The release schedule looks like a salt flat at the moment.
I disagree, but for the sake of argument, whose fault is that?

[Jagos]

But it's already getting a remake. Is a return different from that?
*eye twitches*

Max looks like a Sephiroth wannabe. The one that I imagined when playing it on the SNES was a semi buff guy who could fend for himself.

When I looked at the remake, he was a typical Japanese hero that I've come to exceptionally hate:

Emaciated
Girly-boy
Hot headed with no common sense

Granted, Guy looks like a Wakka expy. It's just when I see Maxim, my bias shows up and I just can't stand to look at the damn game. All I really want is either an actual remake, not the other games in the series because they sucked HARD donkey, or Maxim to man up.

This tripe anime girly boy fascination needs to get kicked to the curb. I don't need every game to have a Marcus Fenix type character, but god damn...

If the sword is going to be a friggin Claymore, at least make it believable that the guy holding it can wield it!

[/mini-rant]

[bluestarultor]

Yes, they really would. You might not want to think they would, but they would. That said, I'm banking on an FFVII remake for the 3DS, not because I'm particularly eager to play FFVII, but that just seems the most likely scenario to me.


I disagree, but for the sake of argument, whose fault is that?

The developers', obviously. They don't HAVE to make stuff for motion controls and a good deal of games currently in production aren't.

To explain my comment, a bunch of games were pushed to Q3/4 2010 last time around. Now everything's been pushed to 2011. Everything that wasn't released in the time in between is being delayed. That means that you get repeats or, even more embarrassingly, a LACK of repeats depending on how much trouble the projects are in.



And, hey, I love FF7, too. I'd love for them to get the voice cast from Advent Children to do a remake (that was seriously spot-on). I'd love to HAVE the remake. But I wouldn't BUY the remake. I already have the game twice as it is (once for PC, once for PSN).

People who own the game would have a somewhat harder time justifying spending 6 times the price to get the updated version, and looking from a business standpoint, it doesn't make sense. They're still selling the original game, and it's pure profit. It's paid for itself countless times and will continue to do so. On top of that, they already shunted a remake in favor of doing the movie. It was one or the other and they made their choice. That's where they dumped their money. Unless there was a very good indication that a remake would in turn pay for itself, it would be a lot of time and money down the drain with the production costs these days. It just doesn't make financial sense.

[phil_]

That said, I'm banking on an FFVII remake for the 3DS, not because I'm particularly eager to play FFVII, but that just seems the most likely scenario to me.This would be neat if someone somewhere had the original models that they rendered the backgrounds from, so that the backgrounds could be 3D instead of a paper back-drop. Because 3D! Also because they could add some new animations or something, Star Wars Special Edition-style and piss people off.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

*eye twitches*

Max looks like a Sephiroth wannabe. The one that I imagined when playing it on the SNES was a semi buff guy who could fend for himself.

When I looked at the remake, he was a typical Japanese hero that I've come to exceptionally hate:

Emaciated
Girly-boy
Hot headed with no common sense

Granted, Guy looks like a Wakka expy. It's just when I see Maxim, my bias shows up and I just can't stand to look at the damn game. All I really want is either an actual remake, not the other games in the series because they sucked HARD donkey, or Maxim to man up.

This tripe anime girly boy fascination needs to get kicked to the curb. I don't need every game to have a Marcus Fenix type character, but god damn...

If the sword is going to be a friggin Claymore, at least make it believable that the guy holding it can wield it!

[/mini-rant]

So basicly have it made by an American company then?

Cause it ain't happening if it the same old Japanese company. Deal with it.

Plus if the game is aimed at girls then yeah expect to see many girly men.

[DFM]

I still don't understand why so many people get up in arms about main characters without a square jaw and a crew cut.

[bluestarultor]

I still don't understand why so many people get up in arms about main characters without a square jaw and a crew cut.

I don't get why so many people get up in arms about Japanese teenagers looking like Japanese teenagers. Let's face it, a Japanese guy of standard RPG age is going to have a softer face and slimmer figure than the middle-aged boulders that America is obsessed with hewing out of the standard space marine mountain. If anything, it's actually closer to realistic.

Edit: Compare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAzQLHuuZQI and http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Noctis_Lucis_Caelum

[mudah.swf]

To be honest I think Sony are screwing themselves out of the handheld market now. They really needed to bust out a PSP2 or something.

[phil_]

To be honest I think Sony are screwing themselves out of the handheld market now. They really needed to bust out a PSP2 or something.They still have Monster Hunter 3 Portable. That alone will keep them afloat in Moon Land.

[bluestarultor]

To be honest I think Sony are screwing themselves out of the handheld market now. They really needed to bust out a PSP2 or something.

Well, to be honest in turn, it probably is better that they don't put their focus on the PSP. With the rampant piracy and the fact that there's very little out for the one they have, coming out with a PSP2 would be a dismal failure.

[Kim]

With the rampant piracy and the fact that there's very little out for the one they have, coming out with a PSP2 would be a dismal failure.

Because the DS doesn't have rampant piracy? I agree with your second point, but "rampant piracy" has VERY little to do with it.

There are good big games coming out for the PSP though. They could have talked up Birth by Sleeps US release, or the next Parasite Eve game.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I don't get why so many people get up in arms about Japanese teenagers looking like Japanese teenagers. Let's face it, a Japanese guy of standard RPG age is going to have a softer face and slimmer figure than the middle-aged boulders that America is obsessed with hewing out of the standard space marine mountain. If anything, it's actually closer to realistic.

Edit: Compare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAzQLHuuZQI and http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Noctis_Lucis_Caelum

You have a good point there. Though the complaints are more towards the more girly looking ones.

[mudah.swf]

Well, to be honest in turn, it probably is better that they don't put their focus on the PSP. With the rampant piracy and the fact that there's very little out for the one they have, coming out with a PSP2 would be a dismal failure.

True, but on the other hand I can't see their new campaign reigniting much interest. Monster Hunter 3 will keep the PSP alive in Japan, but those kinds of games don't work all that well outside of Japan, at least the handheld iterations. Now that the 3DS is in existence with such a strong lineup and new gimmick, Sony need to pull out something huge to keep in the market imo.

Also I'm not sure what to think about Marvel vs Capcom 3. It looks cool, sure, but it also looks a lot like TvC, which didn't grab my attention for long.

[bluestarultor]

Because the DS doesn't have rampant piracy? I agree with your second point, but "rampant piracy" has VERY little to do with it.

There are good big games coming out for the PSP though. They could have talked up Birth by Sleeps US release, or the next Parasite Eve game.

Well, it does, but they actually still sell games for it. So far as I understood, the PSP has a real problem due to the lack of region locking meaning people just pirate import games. But then I'm tired and possibly mixed up at the moment.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Well, it does, but they actually still sell games for it. So far as I understood, the PSP has a real problem due to the lack of region locking meaning people just pirate import games. But then I'm tired and possibly mixed up at the moment.

The DS doesn't have region lock. But the PSP does.

[Kim]

Well, it does, but they actually still sell games for it. So far as I understood, the PSP has a real problem due to the lack of region locking meaning people just pirate import games. But then I'm tired and possibly mixed up at the moment.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Besides the PSP's been doing very well lately and still has a strong line of games on the way and out now.

PSP 2 (fan name) was not announced likely because of all the focus Sony is putting on the PS3 (which actually needs the push giving it's rocky start), and PS move. PSP 2 will likely be out around early 2011. We'll probably see some photos and more info of it around August - October.

[bluestarultor]

The DS doesn't have region lock. But the PSP does.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Like I said, tired and mixed up. But I know for a fact that the region lock on the PSP has been bypassed because as much as I could kick his ass for it, a friend of mine has a full library of pirated Japanese games ranging from Phantasy Star to Dissidia before it was released in America.

[Kim]

Yes, and this is all stuff you could do on the DS, too. Piracy has not a goddamned thing to do with whether or not the PSP2 would succeed, and pretending it does is fooling yourself.

[bluestarultor]

Yes, and this is all stuff you could do on the DS, too. Piracy has not a goddamned thing to do with whether or not the PSP2 would succeed, and pretending it does is fooling yourself.

Fair enough, then, but the lack of a large big-name library is still enough to make it not a good idea. With it only finally getting some decent support, cranking out a new system makes no sense. It would be like repainting a house as soon as the old color dried.

[Kim]

That's why I said I agreed with your second point. Piracy is just irrelevant this conversation, and I didn't want you trying to turn it into a scapegoat.

That I agree with your second point is specifically why they should be hyping the upcoming PSP titles more, instead of focusing on Move and all this other ancillary stuff. If they don't change things soon, there's not much point in them making a PSP2 at all.

[bluestarultor]

That's why I said I agreed with your second point. Piracy is just irrelevant this conversation, and I didn't want you trying to turn it into a scapegoat.

That I agree with your second point is specifically why they should be hyping the upcoming PSP titles more, instead of focusing on Move and all this other ancillary stuff. If they don't change things soon, there's not much point in them making a PSP2 at all.

Piracy is a real issue in these matters. Maybe not an immediate or particularly relevant issue, but it is an industry talking point. It may not be the reason something won't happen, but you know they'll list it. I'm not saying that them doing so is actually valid.

To be honest, Sony doesn't actually need to have a handheld console. They don't even actually need to have a console period. They have other electronics that are quite frankly much more profitable and they're still selling every PS3 at a loss as far as I know. Nintendo doesn't have that, so having popular consoles is much more important. Sony may as well NOT make a PSP2 if the PSP is any indication of how well it'll do. Dead out the door and slowly gaining weight as you keep it on a respirator and funnel sustenance into its gullet is not a good business model.

[Jagos]

Blues, piracy = scapegoat.

Ignore that and keep talking about the good points about a PSP. If we need another discussion on piracy, so be it. Just not in here.

[Mannix]

So far I haven't heard anything I'm terribly interested in, and am kind of pissed at Valve for canceling some Portal 2 event for some crappy announcement that Portal 2 will be on the PS3. Wow, what a game changer :rolleyes:

[mudah.swf]

Blue the PSP is region free for games, there's no region to break. What was broken was the restriction on running unsigned code. I think now that Sony have crippled (but not stopped entirely) the piracy scene for the PSP the PSP will become a more attractive prospect for developers, but I just don't see it lasting much longer when the 3DS hits.

[bluestarultor]

Blue the PSP is region free for games, there's no region to break. What was broken was the restriction on running unsigned code. I think now that Sony have crippled (but not stopped entirely) the piracy scene for the PSP the PSP will become a more attractive prospect for developers, but I just don't see it lasting much longer when the 3DS hits.

So I was right in the first place? Make up your minds, people!

At any rate, even though the PSP is a better prospect now, it still makes no sense to make a new system just as the old one is finally getting off the ground.

If it does get killed by the 3DS, it would just mean the handheld market is not a good choice for Sony to pursue, which there's currently a lot of indication of in the first place.

[krogothwolf]

To be honest, Sony doesn't actually need to have a handheld console. They don't even actually need to have a console period. They have other electronics that are quite frankly much more profitable and they're still selling every PS3 at a loss as far as I know. Nintendo doesn't have that, so having popular consoles is much more important. Sony may as well NOT make a PSP2 if the PSP is any indication of how well it'll do. Dead out the door and slowly gaining weight as you keep it on a respirator and funnel sustenance into its gullet is not a good business model.

Last I heard it was like 6 cents for every dollar, so they are losing 18 bucks for every 300 dollar system or so, and I think that was a year ago? So the loss isn't that large anymore.

But Blues, that's kind of a silly argument. A large company does need to expand into other fields to grow, otherwise it stagnates. Not only that if it focuses in one area only it'll eventually get screwed if that area drys up, screwing the company over. Long term a company will want to broaden out and cover different areas. It helps with the profits eventually(Look at the PS2 for Sony) and then with innovation of it's technology. If a company only did what the NEED to do, none would take a risk and innovation would pretty much die out.

If Nintendo followed your logic of not doing something then they would never have made the Wii, they would have just abandoned the Consoles and stuck with the DS. They had a drop in sales from the SNES to the N64, the N64 and the Gamecube. If they had gone "well our track record is now sucking, lets abandon the Console's now" we'd have no motion control crazyness right now because Xbox and Sony wouldn't have cared about it. Plus, it wasn't a good business to follow a dieing field for them.

[mudah.swf]

If the 3DS or some future revision offers some digital storage for games such as the PSP offers now then it will be my console of 2011 and for the foreseeable future. Please do it, Nintendo. Half the reason people bought flashcarts in the first place is so they could carry their games around in one convenient place, and having a library of 3DS games on the go would be immense. Please embrace online, Nintendo.

[bluestarultor]

Last I heard it was like 6 cents for every dollar, so they are losing 18 bucks for every 300 dollar system or so, and I think that was a year ago? So the loss isn't that large anymore.

Well, it's about time. They started off selling them at a loss of $300 per unit, which is hefty considering that that was roughly half the cost of making them at the time.

The point is that they would never have been able to do it if they weren't already a profitable company in other areas.

But Blues, that's kind of a silly argument. A large company does need to expand into other fields to grow, otherwise it stagnates. Not only that if it focuses in one area only it'll eventually get screwed if that area drys up, screwing the company over. Long term a company will want to broaden out and cover different areas. It helps with the profits eventually(Look at the PS2 for Sony) and then with innovation of it's technology. If a company only did what the NEED to do, none would take a risk and innovation would pretty much die out.

If Nintendo followed your logic of not doing something then they would never have made the Wii, they would have just abandoned the Consoles and stuck with the DS. They had a drop in sales from the SNES to the N64, the N64 and the Gamecube. If they had gone "well our track record is now sucking, lets abandon the Console's now" we'd have no motion control crazyness right now because Xbox and Sony wouldn't have cared about it. Plus, it wasn't a good business to follow a dieing field for them.

Sony DOES have a wide safety net, and one unlikely to die out anytime soon. They still make TV sets, computers, playback/recording machines (i.e. DVD and Blu-Ray players and burners), cameras, camcorders, and probably stuff I'm forgetting. As I said, that's why the PS3 happened in the first place. Arguing that making consoles has helped improve their other technologies just doesn't hold water. They made their consoles out of existing technologies and adapted them to the specific purpose of playing games.

Nintendo, on the other hand, NEEDS to have their consoles. Look at SEGA. SEGA systems always had advanced technology compared to the rest of the market, but it was never all that successful due to poor support. SEGA has since ceased making consoles and focused on developing games, because making consoles was just not worth it. Nintendo is the oldest company in the console market, and while they have plenty of their own titles, those titles are used to support their hardware, which is the model that's kept them going for so long. Maybe, if push comes to shove, they'd be able to follow Atari and SEGA into just developing games for other systems. But so far, their consoles have sold well enough they never had to consider it.

Yes, a look at Gamecube shows that it didn't sell as well as other things. On the other hand, look at what else was going on. They had the Game Boy line to help with that.

If the Wii had been an utter failure, maybe Nintendo WOULD have dropped making consoles and focused on their games. Wii was a fluke, an experiment that by random chance was successful beyond their wildest dreams. Motion control's popularity came out of left field and the market is still turbulent because of the radical change.

[krogothwolf]

The console helped with the Blu-ray technology Blues. Also, the Cell processor didn't exist in any of their other pieces of equipment so they didn't just cobble the PS3 from other things. The point though is that a company does what they feel they need to do. Sony's felt that they required to broaden their market, the PS1 came out of that, then the PS2. The PS3 followed suit. They felt the need to expand into the handheld market because they figure they could make money there, so they did that. They still feel they can make money there due to how successful the DS is they just haven't hit the right thing. Honestly, you saying what a company needs to do comes of as very naive. A company needs to make money. Sony feels that they can end up making more money in those to markets so they wish to do that. A Company also needs to advance themselves or they'll stagnate. Sony feels the gaming market is a direction they can go to advance themselves. so they are going there.

Nintendo had a runaway success in the Hand Held market, they had near 100%. They were losing ground and fast in the Console market. Again, by your logic, all Nintendo really needed to do was stay with the status qua. With how crazy the DS was picking up they could have shrugged and said, lets just release a more advance system like we always do, lets follow the market like we did with the GameCube. They didn't, they felt they wanted to do better as a company so they took a chance and created the Wii. A company needs to advance and change to survive in this world.

MicroSoft never needed to make a console, they could have merely stuck with PC's, but they felt they could make a nice sum of money in the console business. A company does what they feel they need to do to advance themselves and their profit margin.

Maybe Sony see's a chance to make their brand name even more popular and getting customer loyalty from gamers who buy their systems. Got a PS3? Buy a Sony TV. They feel they need to do this because they feel the gaming market is good for their company in the long run. So does Microsoft. So does the guys who are making. So yes, they do feel they need to go with a PSP2 or PS4 if they make those because it will, in their eyes, eventually help them.

[Bells]

Facts to the point? If you bought a DSi you got screwed and don't care.

And Sony is not going to put out a new PSP now, because it was fairly obvious that nothing they cna make right now will be able to beat the 3DS. Nintendo simply came in too strong. The hardware is trully solid and the library of remakes and ports is just enough to make the sales explode.

Unless Sony launches a uber Portbale with the power of a full PS2, BC with the PS2 and PSP library and some sort of program that let's you re-buy your PS2 old discs as digital content for this new PSP at a hefty discount, they don't even stand a chance.

Also, i'm pretty sure they will focus just on the PS3 and Move right now

[DFM]

FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=252042)

[bluestarultor]

The console helped with the Blu-ray technology Blues. Also, the Cell processor didn't exist in any of their other pieces of equipment so they didn't just cobble the PS3 from other things. The point though is that a company does what they feel they need to do. Sony's felt that they required to broaden their market, the PS1 came out of that, then the PS2. The PS3 followed suit. They felt the need to expand into the handheld market because they figure they could make money there, so they did that. They still feel they can make money there due to how successful the DS is they just haven't hit the right thing. Honestly, you saying what a company needs to do comes of as very naive. A company needs to make money. Sony feels that they can end up making more money in those to markets so they wish to do that. A Company also needs to advance themselves or they'll stagnate. Sony feels the gaming market is a direction they can go to advance themselves. so they are going there.

Their console helped Blu-Ray win the format war, which, to be frank, was liable to happen anyway because it's a superior format and everyone supported it. The technology was not Sony's. The reason the cost of the PS3 is coming down is because the technology is improving from ruling the market.

Cell was made by a joint effort between them and two other computer manufacturers (IBM and Toshiba). While the PS3 is the first thing that used it, it's intended for much broader applications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_processor#Possible_applications).

As for the handheld market, I'll counter-argue that, as Bells said, thinking they can whip something up in five minutes to compete with the 3DS is naive. Especially when they're just getting their existing system off the ground. The 3DS is going to rule the market no matter what anyone else comes out with because Nintendo is riding high and the thing works as promised. It's a much safer decision for Sony to stick with the system it has to keep developers coming to it, rather than scaring them off with a new one. Economically speaking, the PSP is just attaining, or approaching, what's called maturity, which is when the product starts making a profit. The timing and climate is just totally wrong for a new system.

It's not a matter of competing with Nintendo in handhelds. It's a matter of not dumping a system which is just becoming profitable and accepting that they currently have nothing that can compete with the 3DS. They're cutting their losses.

Nintendo had a runaway success in the Hand Held market, they had near 100%. They were losing ground and fast in the Console market. Again, by your logic, all Nintendo really needed to do was stay with the status qua. With how crazy the DS was picking up they could have shrugged and said, lets just release a more advance system like we always do, lets follow the market like we did with the GameCube. They didn't, they felt they wanted to do better as a company so they took a chance and created the Wii. A company needs to advance and change to survive in this world.

No. Not what I'm saying at all. Nintendo has the full support of their own development studios across the board and that extends to their home consoles, which is important for getting a good launch, and I'll touch on that more in a bit. While the DS is a runaway success, the home console market is just as important because of the need to compete in a market they've got a lot of stake in. To give you more info about SEGA, SEGA still makes arcade games, which is where most of their money comes from. SEGA does not ride on video games. The licensing from other people making games for your system is where the money comes from in the console industry, and game development is a high-risk endeavor due to the high cost of production. By selling more systems at or slightly below cost and attracting outside support for them, Nintendo is pulling a profit.

To break down the system and why it's working:
1. Nintendo makes home console and sells it at an even break.
2. Nintendo pulls out some first-party mainstays to give launch support to the console.
3. Other developers pay fees to develop games for a console that is selling units.
4. Nintendo rakes in the cash.

MicroSoft never needed to make a console, they could have merely stuck with PC's, but they felt they could make a nice sum of money in the console business. A company does what they feel they need to do to advance themselves and their profit margin.

To nitpick, Microsoft is a software corporation. They don't make hardware, even what's in their own units. Their entry into the console market was part of Microsoft's basic policy to expand into everything they can, which has served them well. Yes, it is all about the profit. On the other hand, they're not just making profits on the consoles. They're also capitalizing on selling development kits like XNA for indie developers to support it, and, let me tell you, there are fees with a capital F to get your game out there. The situation with Microsoft is more complex than you give it credit for. They put together the hardware with help from their business partners and are capitalizing on the software development aspect of it. The XBLA is paying for the system.

Maybe Sony see's a chance to make their brand name even more popular and getting customer loyalty from gamers who buy their systems. Got a PS3? Buy a Sony TV. They feel they need to do this because they feel the gaming market is good for their company in the long run. So does Microsoft. So does the guys who are making. So yes, they do feel they need to go with a PSP2 or PS4 if they make those because it will, in their eyes, eventually help them.

The PS3 currently has the best technology on the market, bar none. That's why they're coming out with the Move. They're sitting at the top of current technology and have nowhere else to go right now, other than maybe putting in more Cell processors, which would put them at a loss again and ultimately not provide an equal benefit. Coming out with a new PSP now would mean losing the support the current one is finally garnering.

Sony's current setup is, according to your info, just reaching a point of stability and profitability in the console market. It would be bad business to try to move to the next system in this case, because it would mean more money lost. If the PSP does not rake in a profit, or enough of a profit, a PSP2 would be a risky choice in the future, and it would be a terrible one in the present. If the 3DS kills the PSP, unless they devise a means to compete, there is no sense in trying to continue the line.

[Drownball-Champ]

YES! Golden Sun: Dark Dawn arrives this holiday season. That was really the only game I wanted news for. The new Donkey Kong Country and the 3DS remakes (LoZ OoT, Paper Mario, Star Fox 64) were all just the icing on the Golden Sun cake.

[Doc ock rokc]

Portal 2 Demo (http://e3.g4tv.com/videos/46537/E3-2010-Live-Portal-2-Demo/)
This shit be balling

[mudah.swf]

Digital Foundry takes on the 3DS (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-nintendo-3ds).

[Grimpond]

YES! Golden Sun: Dark Dawn arrives this holiday season. That was really the only game I wanted news for. The new Donkey Kong Country and the 3DS remakes (LoZ OoT, Paper Mario, Star Fox 64) were all just the icing on the Golden Sun cake.

YES! Golden Sun: Dark Dawn arrives this holiday season.

Golden Sun: Dark Dawn

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES :dance:

[Bells]

All Playstation Move - Enable and Based games

Sony Computer Entertainment



Beat Sketcher (Fall 2010)
SOCOM 4: U.S. Navy SEALs (Fall 2010)
EyePet (Sept. 2010)
Kung Fu Rider (Sept. 2010)
Sports Champions (Sept. 2010)
Start The Party! (Sept. 2010)
echochrome ii (Sept. 2010)
Tumble (Sept. 2010)
Hustle Kings (Oct. 2010)
The Fight: Lights Out (Oct. 2010)
The Shoot (Oct. 2010)
TV Superstars (Oct. 2010)
High Velocity Bowling (Oct. 2010)
PAIN (Oct. 2010)
Heavy Rain (Oct. 2010)
SingStar Dance (Nov. 2010)
Little Big Planet 2 (Nov. 2010)
Sly Collection (Nov. 2010)
Killzone 3 (Feb. 2011)
Heroes on the Move (2011)
Sorcery (2011)

Everyone Else



John Daly's ProStroke Golf (OG International) (Fall 2010)
Racquet Sports (Ubisoft) (Fall 2010)
The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest (WB Games Inc.) (Sept. 2010)
Brunswick Pro Bowling (Crave) (Sept. 2010)
Resident Evil 5 Gold Edition (Capcom) (Sept. 2010)
RUSE (Ubisoft) (Sept. 2010)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2010 (Electronic Arts) (Sept. 2010)
Time Crisis: Razing Storm (Bandai Namco) (Sept. 2010)
Toy Story 3 (Disney) (Sept. 2010)
Kung Fu Live (Virtual Air Guitar Company) (Oct. 2010)
NBA 2K 11 (2K Sports) (Oct. 2010)
Deadliest Catch: Sea of Chaos (Crave) (Nov. 2010)
Disney Tron Evolution the Video Game (Disney) (Nov. 2010)



I highlighted the ones that caught my attetion first

[Jagos]

Dammit Blues... I was trying not to get into a debate... *sigh*

Well, it's about time. They started off selling them at a loss of $300 per unit, which is hefty considering that that was roughly half the cost of making them at the time.

The point is that they would never have been able to do it if they weren't already a profitable company in other areas.

I'm sure that the licenses to produce games on their console rather than Nintendo more than made up for the loss on consoles. Also, the PSP hasn't been pushed with anything that Nintendo doesn't have a counter for. The money loss in one area doesn't mean they lost money overall.



Sony DOES have a wide safety net, and one unlikely to die out anytime soon. They still make TV sets, computers, playback/recording machines (i.e. DVD and Blu-Ray players and burners), cameras, camcorders, and probably stuff I'm forgetting. As I said, that's why the PS3 happened in the first place. Arguing that making consoles has helped improve their other technologies just doesn't hold water. They made their consoles out of existing technologies and adapted them to the specific purpose of playing games.

Yes, but that was an uphill battle:

Linkage (http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/03/ff_sony_howard_stringer/)

The company has also been hobbled by another, even more fundamental connectivity issue: Engineers in different divisions weren’t coordinating their work, even though their products increasingly had overlapping functions. (Camcorders can take still pictures, digital cameras now record video, music players show movies, and the PSP gaming device plays both music and video.) “I told them, ‘You are going to have to stop writing duplicate code,’” Stringer says

In other words, big company = more redundancy which needs to be eliminated in order to make them more competitive.

Nintendo, on the other hand, NEEDS to have their consoles. Look at SEGA. SEGA systems always had advanced technology compared to the rest of the market, but it was never all that successful due to poor support. SEGA has since ceased making consoles and focused on developing games, because making consoles was just not worth it. Nintendo is the oldest company in the console market, and while they have plenty of their own titles, those titles are used to support their hardware, which is the model that's kept them going for so long. Maybe, if push comes to shove, they'd be able to follow Atari and SEGA into just developing games for other systems. But so far, their consoles have sold well enough they never had to consider it.

Your argument doesn't follow with Sega. They pushed too many consoles at one time, confusing their audience and driving sales away. The 90s was about Sega Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, Game Gear, and Sega Saturn at one time. And all of them were expensive. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter if you have advanced technology. If you ask for too much at one time, you're alienating the very people you want to buy and support you.

Yes, a look at Gamecube shows that it didn't sell as well as other things. On the other hand, look at what else was going on. They had the Game Boy line to help with that.

If the Wii had been an utter failure, maybe Nintendo WOULD have dropped making consoles and focused on their games. Wii was a fluke, an experiment that by random chance was successful beyond their wildest dreams. Motion control's popularity came out of left field and the market is still turbulent because of the radical change.

Random choice? How so? They cultivated the audience and integrated motion into their games. Something that I believe Microsoft or Sony is failing to do since they're playing catch up. Mario Galaxy is proof of that.

Their console helped Blu-Ray win the format war, which, to be frank, was liable to happen anyway because it's a superior format and everyone supported it. The technology was not Sony's. The reason the cost of the PS3 is coming down is because the technology is improving from everyone using it.

Cell was made by a joint effort between them and two other computer manufacturers (IBM and Toshiba). While the PS3 is the first thing that used it, it's intended for much broader applications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_processor#Possible_applications).

Uhm...

Let's look and compare it (http://www.hddvdcomparison.com/). Remember, Betamax was stronger than the VCR, but by my article, Sony barely supported it. That's why they lost so long ago. This is an example of Sony learning from their mistakes.

As for the handheld market, I'll counter-argue that, as Bells said, thinking they can whip something up in five minutes to compete with the 3DS is naive. Especially when, to drive this point home, they are just getting their existing system off the ground.

It's not a matter of competing with Nintendo in handhelds. It's a matter of not dumping a system which is just becoming profitable and accepting that they currently have nothing that can compete with the 3DS.

Agreed. Sony engineers need to work overtime on this one. Nintendo castrated them because they failed to innovate.



No. Not what I'm saying at all. Nintendo has the full support of their own development studios across the board and that extends to their home consoles, which is important for getting a good launch, and I'll touch on that more in a bit. While the DS is a runaway success, the home console market is just as important because of the need to compete in a market they've got a lot of stake in. To give you more info about SEGA, SEGA still makes arcade games, which is where most of their money comes from. SEGA does not ride on video games. The licensing from other people making games for your system is where the money comes from in the console industry, and game development is a high-risk endeavor due to the high cost of production. By selling more systems at or slightly below cost and attracting outside support for them, Nintendo is pulling a profit.

Sega makes arcade games still? IIRC, the arcade market has all but disappeared with home consoles and even in Japan quite a lot of them were closing down ~2 years ago.


To nitpick, Microsoft is a software corporation. They don't make hardware, even what's in their own units. Their entry into the console market was part of Microsoft's basic policy to expand into everything they can, which has served them well. Yes, it is all about the profit. On the other hand, they're not just making profits on the consoles. They're also capitalizing on selling development kits like XNA for indie developers to support it, from whom they ALSO collect fees. The situation with Microsoft is more complex than you give it credit for. They put together the hardware with help from their business partners and are capitalizing on the software aspect of it.

Because it's the AMERICAN WAY! ;)



They talked about the Move. That's obviously what they feel is going to make them money at the moment.

How to integrate that without it being looked at as a gimmick is what's going to make or break them.

Sony's current setup is, according to your info, just reaching a point of stability and profitability in the console market. It would be bad business to try to move to the next system in this case, because it would mean more money lost. If the PSP does not rake in a profit, or enough of a profit, a PSP2 would be a risky choice. If the 3DS kills the PSP, unless they devise a means to compete, there is no sense in trying to continue the line.


Buh? You're saying they should just quit because they'll be second place for a while? I feel like this is turning into an Intel vs AMD match...

[mudah.swf]

Sega still makes arcade games, some of the most recent being updates of Virtua Fighter 5 entitled R and Final Showdown respectively. VF5 R didn't even get a console release. Also there was Border Break, another game that's not getting a console release any time soon.

[bluestarultor]

Sorry, Jagos. I was hoping my edits would go through before anyone got a chance to reply. I hope I explained things a bit better in them and also had a better tone, because I was a bit heated while typing the original. I'll go back and address things in a second.


@ Mudah: They also make pachinko machines, which are a mainstay of arcades and probably casinos. In fact, when sales of their arcade systems tanked, they had a 93% drop in profits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega#Current_status_.282006.E2.80.93present.29).




Edit:

X

Edit Edit: Actually, I'll skip fanning the flames.

[Solid Snake]

I'm just not sure whether Sony has a remotely feasible plan whatsoever with the PSP. Nintendo announced the 3DS with its amazing third-party support and graphical capabilities that leapfrogged the PSP (and arguably pushed the upper limits of what's possible with an efficient, affordable handheld) and Sony responded in their conference with a new marketing campaign featuring an annoying black kid.

Sony's talking up MGS Peace Walker and Valkyria Chronicles 2 and their new Persona 3 remake, which is all great content, but everything past that last batch of decent releases looks slated for the 3DS. Franchises like MGS, Resident Evil, Persona and Final Fantasy will migrate to the 3DS as soon as it's available and won't bother looking back. Hell, I wouldn't even be shocked if we eventually saw remakes of a few PSP-exclusive titles on the 3DS.

So what can Sony do? Sony could try to invest in a new 3D PSP2 project, but by the time they'd be ready to unveil it at a future convention, the 3DS would likely already be released. Once third party developers get used to the 3DS and once it's clear the 3DS will have an enormous majority of the handheld fanbase (in addition to superior graphical capabilities, the one thing that's held the older DS iterations back), I can't imagine the PSP being able to rebound. If the PSP did rebound, it'd take a whole new console upgrade that far surpassed the 3DS with new innovations. Merely introducing a slightly more glamorous version of the 3DS won't cut it. A 3D PSP2 with "Original XBox quality graphics" to compete with the 3DS's "Dreamcast quality graphics" is sure to set up the PSP2 for failure, just as Microsoft initially failed in its attempts to compete with the PS2 by introducing the original XBox, which constituted only a minor graphical update over the PS2 and really didn't introduce enough new innovations to sway the PS2's strong base of third-party developers.

The PS3 was able to essentially "copy" the Wii's motion control concepts with Move and "get away with it" because the PS3 has one huge advantage over the Wii: it's an HD console. Subsequently, there are more than enough hardcore gamers who will support the PS3 due to the kinds of titles that are PS3 and X360 exclusives. But unless Sony seriously intends to try to market a system that powerful in handheld form, the advantage keeping the PS3 afloat (the sheer power of its hardware) is no longer an argument capable of sustaining the PSP. The PSP needs some drastic new innovations, and Sony needs to come up with some kind of long-term plan to woo third-party developers and keep exclusive content running out into the foreseeable future, or it's going to be very quickly left in the dust.

[krogothwolf]

Blues, why does it seem like you're taking a "If they're going to lose why bother" mentality? I mean, sure they won't take first, but they could be developing something that compares with the 3DS. Just because they aren't announcing it doesn't mean it isn't there. If you're going to look at something a go "Well, we aren't going to win, so meh lets forget about it." As a business practice, then you probably wouldn't survive very long, or you wouldn't start off in the first place. You don't really go into something and expect to be number 1 at the start. Sony got extremely lucky with the PS1, but I'm sure they realized that. They would have to look at the handheld market with the long term in mind. I would see abandoning it right now, when they do have the ability to fall back on their other hardware as a ridiculous thing to do.

[Jagos]

My first point should change to respond to this:

It's not a matter of competing with Nintendo in handhelds. It's a matter of not dumping a system which is just becoming profitable and accepting that they currently have nothing that can compete with the 3DS. They're cutting their losses.

It seems more and more that Sony is giving up the handheld market. TBH, I would pick up Valkyria Chronicles but otherwise it doesn't quite have the library that I like. I have a PSP and sorely wish I had my GB DS because of the variety I had with it.

If they are going to make a newer console, they have to implement the same strategy that Nintendo has used where you can still use the games from before. Legacy customers are their best customers. They won't beat Nintendo immediately. All told, Sony is still learning the gaming market whereas Nintendo is the old dog in the yard. But now, they should know a few tricks and be able to fight the Big N in terms of innovation on the next console.

[bluestarultor]

Blues, why does it seem like you're taking a "If they're going to lose why bother" mentality? I mean, sure they won't take first, but they could be developing something that compares with the 3DS. Just because they aren't announcing it doesn't mean it isn't there. If you're going to look at something a go "Well, we aren't going to win, so meh lets forget about it." As a business practice, then you probably wouldn't survive very long, or you wouldn't start off in the first place. You don't really go into something and expect to be number 1 at the start. Sony got extremely lucky with the PS1, but I'm sure they realized that. They would have to look at the handheld market with the long term in mind. I would see abandoning it right now, when they do have the ability to fall back on their other hardware as a ridiculous thing to do.

See Snake's post. Sony would be doing nothing but playing catch-up to an already-established system with a ton of existing support.

Unless they have something better to put on the table than graphics, they are not going to be able to compete. Nintendo already has 3D, already has a unique control system, and already has it on its way. You're not going to top that short of a glove-based VR system.

In business, the "if you try hard enough" mentality is not going to get you anywhere. You have to have something to offer, and it has to be better than the other guy's. In a profit-based decision-making process, giving up CAN be a better option than trucking on if you're throwing good money after bad.

[krogothwolf]

Yeah, but the "give up before you start" mentality isn't going to get you anywhere. I mean, companies try new things all the time. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they exceed. They also do that in an area where something else already has a large market share for the product. They just need to add something new. Not only that, we don't even know how well the 3DS is going to work till it's released and out there. Sorry, but falling in line with everyone and loving this thing before it's been released seems silly, and giving it a victory just because the DS and DSi are there holding a place for it is also Silly. The thing could be released horribly flawed or not coming close to fulfilling what the promise it could do. This love affair with a product that hasn't even been released yet is sort of silly. And conceding defeat against an unreleased product is also silly.

Maybe they are doing something the PSP that we don't know about, hell maybe they are even going in a way that we haven't thought of. But the fact is, they won't know how successful it will be till they try. It's not like the PSP has done horribly, it has still sold well over 60 million units overall., so I don't know why you guys seem to think anything else is doomed from the start.

[mudah.swf]

Would just like to apologise for the massive derail I inadvertedly pushed this thread into. Oops.

[bluestarultor]

Yeah, but the "give up before you start" mentality isn't going to get you anywhere. I mean, companies try new things all the time. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they exceed. They also do that in an area where something else already has a large market share for the product. They just need to add something new. Not only that, we don't even know how well the 3DS is going to work till it's released and out there. Sorry, but falling in line with everyone and loving this thing before it's been released seems silly, and giving it a victory just because the DS and DSi are there holding a place for it is also Silly. The thing could be released horribly flawed or not coming close to fulfilling what the promise it could do. This love affair with a product that hasn't even been released yet is sort of silly. And conceding defeat against an unreleased product is also silly.

Maybe they are doing something the PSP that we don't know about, hell maybe they are even going in a way that we haven't thought of. But the fact is, they won't know how successful it will be till they try. It's not like the PSP has done horribly, it has still sold well over 60 million units overall., so I don't know why you guys seem to think anything else is doomed from the start.

This isn't a blind fanwank, Krogo. People have gotten their hands on the unit and said very good things about it. Things like "it does exactly what they promised."



On a technical standpoint, please consider what you could add to a 3DS to make a better product for Sony. The 3DS has:

two screens with good resolution
microphone if former models are any indication
two cameras
stylus and button controls, plus analog stick
adjustable 3D
passable speakers if former models are any indication
a backwards-compatible library
cartridges

The PSP has:

comparable graphics
button controls, plus analog stick
nice speakers for a handheld in my limited experience
the PS1 and native libraries
UMD (which has its own issues) or digital distribution (which is a plus)

Even if Sony added everything else Nintendo has, they wouldn't have a large advantage. They'd need to find something big to offer, and there's only so much you can do with that small a system. Short of putting in a cell phone, there's nothing I can think of you could cram in there.



Also, you're comparing 60 million worldwide sales of the PSP's various versions to nearly 129 million of the various DS versions.



This is not "giving up before you start." This is "the absolute wrong time to be announcing an inferior product to the competition's to follow your current one as it finally starts to get some support."

If Sony had something big in the works and it was anywhere near working, they would have shown it. The lack of a similarly impressive revelation indicates they don't have one. Maybe they do have something in the works, but Nintendo has a working unit. At best, this is going to lead Sony into a scramble to modify what they have, if they even have anything.

[Doc ock rokc]

Does anyone Have a Video on How the 3ds works already! I can't find shit and I want to know!

[Kim]

A video would be worthless. AFAIK you can't really effectively record something like this.

[bluestarultor]

Does anyone Have a Video on How the 3ds works already! I can't find shit and I want to know!

No video, but it wouldn't do it justice, anyway.

What we know:

it uses a similar control scheme to the DS line, plus something similar to the PSP analog stick
the 3D is adjustable to fit your personal perspective
it will come in red-, blue-, and gray-and-black color schemes
the bottom screen is the same as the DS touchscreen we know and love (320x200)
the top screen has a resolution of 800x200, or 400x200 for each eye
it has the same camera system as the DSi
it seems to have the same or similar dimensions as the rest of the DS line



Edit: Have a wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_3DS#Features

[krogothwolf]

It is still word of mouth coming from a Demo Unit. Have you physically picked it up and used it? Sure it's a credible source, but it's still a demo unit. You can never be sure what the Mass Produced model will be like. It is coming off as blind fanwank if that's what you call it. I'm just pointing out you guys are touting on about how great it is based on reviews and never having a final product. There's been a few times people have done things similar to that and it's gone to hell by the time the mass produced product comes out. You never know what it'll be like before you use it.

So, it has to equal or be greater then the DS to be a success? Don't think so. So what if it's half of the DS output. 60+ Million units is still a crapload out there compared to some other attempts at a handheld device. And that was for their first attempt at one. sure the PSPGo flopped, but that doesn't mean they should quit because of that.

Again, just because they haven't shown anything doesn't mean they aren't working on something, and whether its later or not, it doesn't really matter. Giving up before doing anything is absolutely pointless.

Also, why are you comparing the new unreleased 3DS to a system that was released in 2004?

[Kim]

It actually has three cameras. One on the inside, and two on the outside so it can take pcitures to display in 3D

It is coming off as blind fanwank if that's what you call it.

It's basically the DSi, but with better graphics. That's inarguable fact based on hard date. And it can do 3D, but even if the 3D sucks you can turn it off. How is this blind fanwank?

[Doc ock rokc]

A video would be worthless. AFAIK you can't really effectively record something like this.

Well does anyone have a technology review or something. I want to know if i should start saving (and if it's a programing thing how to get my monitor to do it)

[mudah.swf]

It also offers 3D photography too. Nothing as fancy as the cutting edge of that tech but it's there. Other colours like "burnt orange" and purple have been seen at E3.

Read the Digital Foundry writeup if you want to see things in detail:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-nintendo-3ds

edit: beaten on the 3d camera front.

[Kim]

Well does anyone have a technology review or something. I want to know if i should start saving (and if it's a programing thing how to get my monitor to do it)

First signs from everyone experiencing it are good. Also, it's hardware based.

[krogothwolf]

It's basically the DSi, but with better graphics. That's inarguable fact based on hard date. And it can do 3D, but even if the 3D sucks you can turn it off. How is this blind fanwank?

Because people are pretty much labeling it a success before it's even released?

[Solid Snake]

The reason why I'd be all in favor of Sony "giving up" on the PSP (which really would only infer Sony allowing the PSP to die a gradual, dignified death, as I presume additional PSP titles will continue to filter in the next few years regardless) is because Sony's put itself at a tactical disadvantage by dividing its efforts into the handheld and HD console markets and it would benefit tremendously by concentrating all its Playstation resources on the latter and unseating the X360.

Sony's a company with finite resources. Rather than see it invest money into a losing battle, I'd rather see Sony man up and pour everything it's got into the fight they can and should win: developing the best HD console in the PS3, maximizing its utility, and reestablishing its dominance over Microsoft in the "big" console market.

Then, several years down the line and by the time the 3DS has dominated the market for a few years but gotten 'stale," Sony can use the excess profits it's made from the PS3 and invest a bit into creating the next big innovation. It can unseat Nintendo once Nintendo's gotten lethargic and once Sony can tap into new technologies the gaming industry simply can't fathom just yet.

It's simply a matter of Sony realizing that it's a recession, that Microsoft right now has a huge advantage over Sony insofar as Microsoft's gaming divisions are investing 100% of their manpower into the X360, but also realizing that Sony's somewhat fortunate: the PS3 still has some inherent technical advantages in hardware specs (and arguably a better new technology in Move as opposed to Kinect.) Sony can invest in more opportunities to ensure exclusive games (exclusive games, Sony, not just exclusive content.) And since Nintendo doesn't seem particularly interested in breaking into the HD market anytime soon, Sony can simply take the fight to Microsoft.

If they ultimately "win" (and as a PS3 owner, I'd selfishly hope they do) they can simply help foster an atmosphere where the average gamer owns a PS3 and a 3DS. If they "lose" -- and right now, they're in real jeopardy of losing out -- they'll lag behind Microsoft in the HD console market and lag even further behind Nintendo in the handheld market. That's a far worse fate than simply reinvesting PSP resources into the PS3 and ensuring Sony nets a wide profit and outpaces the competition in one of those two distinct fields.

EDIT: I think blasting those gushing over the 3DS as engaging in "fanwankery" is somewhat ridiculous insofar as we've actually at least heard firsthand reports from expert game reviewers and the media in general from individuals who've played the 3DS firsthand. I mean, that's a hell of a lot more tangible firsthand evidence in its favor than we've seen so far for the PSP2, which is...well...nothing. I'd argue there's a definite chance the 3D will be disappointing as a gimmick (even then, it might still work on a select minority of 3D-tailored 3DS titles) but even the undeniable graphics update from the original DS models and the undeniable broad third-party support is huge for the 3DS.

The strange thing about the whole 3D craze re: the 3DS is that the exact same handheld console could have been introduced this year by Nintendo with just the graphics update and the third-party support alone, and not the 3D capabilities, and I'd be just as excited. The 3D is just some delicious icing on the cake.

[Kim]

Because people are pretty much labeling it a success before it's even released?

Well, I'll be able to play all my DS games on it. It's also got a lot of third party support already. A console's success is decided by its library, and they've got an excellent library before it's even out.

Another reason I think it'll be a success is because the DS is. I've played a lot of games on my DS. It has a lot of games that appeal to me. I expect the 3DS will continue this trend. In contrast, my PSP sees very little use, and half the time when it does it's to play a port, remake, or a PSX game I got off PSN.

[krogothwolf]

Well, I'll be able to play all my DS games on it. It's also got a lot of third party support already. A console's success is decided by its library, and they've got an excellent library before it's even out.

So? Then what's the point of buying one if the 3D ends up sucking hardcore? Or it has hardware problems at launch? A demo unit is a lot different then a mass produced final product unit. Things can go wrong. See no point in calling it a success.

Solid: Again, my whole point is, if Nintendo had followed your line of thinking and abandon the console manufacturing business and just focused on Handheld, we would never have gotten the Wii. So what if Sony has other business ventures that Nintendo doesn't, doesn't mean they should just give up because they didn't win, even though they had success with their first PSP.

Also, Microsoft Doesn't invest 100% of their game division into the 360. They do have some focus onto the Computer area. May not be hardware but it is software related. Sony doesn't really produce PC gaming software.

Also, I wasn't the one who even mentioned Fanwankery in the first place. Blues did, I just said that it does seem that way in the end. I don't care if you guys are Fanwanking or not, just seems weird to be so against the idea that Sony should continue along with the PSP because you seem to think it's a pointless venture, which it really doesn't seem like that.

Everyone loves and uses the iPhone or the BlackBerry, does that mean others shouldn't venture into the smartphone market because they're lagging behind those big 2? No, so why should gaming be much different then Phones? People are starting to buy hand helds in droves.

[phil_]

Even if Sony added everything else Nintendo has, they wouldn't have a large advantage. They'd need to find something big to offer, and there's only so much you can do with that small a system.Not having the word "Nintendo" on the system is a pretty big selling point for some. Just being an alternative to the kiddy system is enough to sell units to the "Madden and FPS only, and every other game is shit" crowd.

But that'll keep people buying the current model. Snake's idea of waiting until they can do something really neat that's unimaginable now like... holographic projection or tactile controls without a physical controller. Or just better graphics. Whatever.

[Kim]

So? Then what's the point of buying one if the 3D ends up sucking hardcore? Or it has hardware problems at launch?The improved graphics over the DS and the games that will be on it. I generally get consoles for the games that will be on them, I don't know about you. Also, in my experience, Nintendo has a better record for not releasing faulty equipment.

just seems weird to be so against the idea that Sony should continue along with the PSP because you seem to think it's a pointless venture, which it really doesn't seem like that.

Like I said, my PSP sees very little use, and when it does it's usually for stuff I could play with an old school emulator or on another console. That and Sony doesn't seem very interested in hyping their future PSP games like the new Kingdom Hearts, so it's hard for me to really care about the PSPs future. Unless Sony kicks it in the ass and gets some decent third party support the PSP and drastically changes what they do with it, I won't be remotely interested in a PSP2.

[Doc ock rokc]

First signs from everyone experiencing it are good. Also, it's hardware based.

Reading the Review Mudah gave me It seems to me that the 3ds will be doing something Like Piku-Piku or Wiggle autostereoscopy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy) which would not be totally dependent on the hardware but a good processor would be needed to use it correctly

[bluestarultor]

It is still word of mouth coming from a Demo Unit. Have you physically picked it up and used it? Sure it's a credible source, but it's still a demo unit. You can never be sure what the Mass Produced model will be like.

I stopped reading after this.

To be short, a demo unit is NOT going to be superior to the final product. That's why they have demo units. This is a totally inane argument and you're trying to force burden of proof onto me or anyone else who has a word to say about it knowing full well that your criteria are impossible. You admit that there is good word from a reliable source, but instead of accepting that, you're ignoring it because it's getting in the way of your argument. In fact, you're ignoring the double standard of rejecting word of mouth from a reliable source versus word of mouth from a random guy on the Internet.

Please take a step back to consider this, because I know you're smarter than that.


Now, having addressed that and checking the history...


So, it has to equal or be greater then the DS to be a success? Don't think so. So what if it's half of the DS output. 60+ Million units is still a crapload out there compared to some other attempts at a handheld device. And that was for their first attempt at one. sure the PSPGo flopped, but that doesn't mean they should quit because of that.

Short answer, yes.

Long answer, it has to be competitive with what's on the market. The DS line got popular by being a good system for a good price. The PSP launched as a great system for roughly $100 extra, but suffered from a much smaller native library.

If you are going to compete, you need to compete in all areas. If you're not going to compete directly, you need to offer something only your fanbase is going to want. If you ARE going to compete directly, you're going to have to find something everyone wants that the competition doesn't have and give it to them.

With the history if the price disparity between the two lines, Sony is going to need to find something big to add, either for its own fans, such as PS2 compatibility, or for everyone, such as, heck, I dunno, a cell phone or something.

Again, just because they haven't shown anything doesn't mean they aren't working on something, and whether its later or not, it doesn't really matter. Giving up before doing anything is absolutely pointless.

This is partly true. They may be working on something. But contrary to what you're saying, timing matters a whole lot. Getting your product out to the masses before someone beats you to it is paramount to grabbing market share, rather than having to try to wrest it away later. If they have a system in the works, they'll continue to develop it and maybe make some changes to stay in line with the market. If they don't, they now know what plans to draw up and can set out thinking what they could add to pull consumers.

In the meantime, they also can assess whether staying in that section of the market is cost effective. If it's not, they aren't fully tied to it yet and can abandon it.

Also, why are you comparing the new unreleased 3DS to a system that was released in 2004?

Because both are what's going to be sharing the market come next year, barring an announcement from Sony.

[Solid Snake]

Strangely enough, krogoth, it's precisely because I want Sony to succeed that I'd prefer to see them drop out of the handheld fight, at least temporarily.

Sure, Sony could pull off a miracle and come to the table in a year or two with a radically new PSP2 model that'd shock us all with innovations we'd never dare expect to find in handheld gaming. But the lack of even a mere mention of the PSP2 (combined with an exceptionally lame advertising campaign, rolled out in something akin to a desperation move) in this year's E3 makes me highly doubt Sony has a secret up its sleeve.

In that case, in the short term, Sony should concentrate on making sure it outclasses Microsoft in the HD console market, where the PS3 actually has a built-in hardware advantage that Sony hasn't fully exploited. Sony is fighting a number of battles now and it needs to make sure it at least pulls a hefty profit and establishes some degree of dominance in one of these fields. If not, I suspect the X360 and the 3DS will leave Sony in the dust as this generation's Sega. I'd much rather see Sony invest into exclusive PS3 games than waste time on a thoroughly outclassed PSP at this juncture.

</my opinion>

[krogothwolf]

My DS and Wii are currently seeing limited use. I love the DS, but the last game I got was Zelda, don't really play the DS as much, my PSP sees almost no use now, actually it hasn't seen any use since my wedding? Maybe longer. I'm not trying to bash the 3DS. I just think it's odd that Blue and Snake are advocating Sony abandoning the Hand Held business because they can't beat the DS/DSi/3DS.

I agree Nintendo has a great record of producing good equipment, even the Virtual Boy's hardware worked great. But they just seem to be cramming more and more into tinier stuff I get worried that sooner or later they'll bit of more then they can chew.

I hope Sony develops something great for the PSP2 or whatever they'll call it, having only one real hand held on the market scares me.

Edit @ Blues: Actually a Demo unit is usually developed with more care then something that gets chugged out of an assembly line, so yeah, the final product has a chance to have problems a demo unit didn't because of that.

[Kim]

Why?

[krogothwolf]

Why what?

[Kim]

Why would only one handheld being on the market scare you? The Gameboy Advance certainly wasn't any worse for it.

[Jagos]

I'm failing to see how only one handheld will kill what Nintendo started.

Though it could kill their innovative streak.