14-year old Boy returns lost 3-year old to mother; Is arrested within minutes

[Nique]

That'll show him to be helpful! (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/views/os-mike-thomas-juvenile-arrest-06151020100615,0,4905741.column?page=1)

So an irresponsible mother looses her toddler in a store and the teenager who may have saved her from an actual creep is branded a kidnapper (likely other things amoung his peers now that the story has spread).

The raging paranoia about pedophiles and child abduction is making it difficult to be a decent person.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Oh wonderful, because I hadn't had my faith in humanity crushed yet today. Fucks sake, what is fucking wrong with people?

[bluestarultor]

...

You know, just reading your post, I got angry, because I knew it would be stupid.

Reading the article, I had no idea it would be this stupid. I have no words. Somehow I slipped from angry into an odd feeling I can't describe. It's not anger. It's not akin to anger. I don't think there's a word for it. I think my emotions just threw something together to tide me over until I can process it.

[Krylo]

On the bright side, when this all clears up all he needs to do is find a lawyer and he's set for life with all the slander and libel cases he can throw out.

[Tev]

You know, there was a young looking girl walking away from her car along the side of the highway yesterday as I drove by with a gas can in her hand. The gas station was about two miles away on an overpass that I had to go to on my way home. I could have picked her up and given her a ride, sparing her the thirty minute walk to the station and back in the hot muggy weather. I could have been a nice guy. But I've seen shit like this happen and as a reflex I passed her by. I felt terrible about it for the rest of the night.

What the hell kind of culture do we live in where helping people is no longer the reflexive action?

[Ryanderman]

Thing is though, I think he actually did break the law. I mean, it's absurd, and obviously when the circumstances are taken into account all charges should be quickly dropped, but while the police did not do the right thing by arresting him, I don't think they necessarily were wrong. Just... less right than they could have been.

Hopefully this'll blow over by his next court appearance on the 24th, and all he'll take away from it is a cruel lesson on life. In the mean time, at least he's only home confined.

[krogothwolf]

Gee Tev, you should have helped her, then you could have been charged with False Imprisonment, Sexual Assault and some other cockamamie chargers!

But yeah, being a Good citizen sucks, you're best bet nowadays is to call the police and then walk away from it all so you can't get charged for some bizarre thing. But if the Mother isn't charging the kid for anything, then how can the police actually charge him with anything? False imprisonment outside in a shopping area? What the fuck? and for that matter, a charge like False Imprisonment, wouldn't the mother be the one to decided whether he didn't have a right to have the child at that point or not? If she testifies on Edwin's behalf wouldn't that mean the case is tossed out anyways?

[Tev]

Gee Tev, you should have helped her, then you could have been charged with False Imprisonment, Sexual Assault and some other cockamamie chargers!
Yeah, I've come to terms that I'm a terrible person. :ohdear:

[rawredy]

Hopefully this'll blow over by his next court appearance on the 24th, and all he'll take away from it is a cruel lesson on life. In the mean time, at least he's only home confined.

Considering that's my birthday, the best birthday present would be that the entire thing blows over and he's found completely innocent and was just trying to help.

This is just so wrong, and honestly just makes me not want to help anyone, ever. Not if they're going to act like this, and quite honestly, I actually enjoy offering my help to people.

[Loyal]

"He was in custody of the child and had no authority to be so,'' said Capt. Angelo Nieves. "The thing is to make clear we have not charged him with an offense that did not occur.''"We've already arrested him, we might as well string up a charge that might stick."

[Jagos]

...

You know, just reading your post, I got angry, because I knew it would be stupid.

Reading the article, I had no idea it would be this stupid. I have no words. Somehow I slipped from angry into an odd feeling I can't describe. It's not anger. It's not akin to anger. I don't think there's a word for it. I think my emotions just threw something together to tide me over until I can process it.

The word you're looking for (which I used after reading the article)

"... What?"

[Amake]

There's never been any prizes for doing the right thing. Rather, there's usually a price you have to pay. It might have become harder than before to help people, but that makes it all the more important. I salute you, little Edwin, for stupidity that may be bravery!

[Nique]

What the hell kind of culture do we live in where helping people is no longer the reflexive action?

It still is for a lot of people! It's just... it's a complicated reflex now. Like, Oh that person is walking alone in the snow so here's the thought process

'Oh I should offer them a ride'

'Oh no wait they'll think I'm a creep and I'll make them uncomfortable, better not'

'Now I'm just projecting! I'm a decent person and I won't social paranoia control my ability to be a decent person'

'Wait, what if HE's a creep? Damn. This is getting hard'

*person walks away and get's run over by an out of control snowplow. Game over*

[Seil]

I'd still help the kid even if I knew I'd get arrested for bein' creepy. Being three years old and lost is no fun at all. Hell, being lost now is no fun at all, and I'm in me twenties. Better to have the kid safe and happy.

[Mannix]

Gee Tev, you should have helped her, then you could have been charged with False Imprisonment, Sexual Assault and some other cockamamie chargers!

But yeah, being a Good citizen sucks, you're best bet nowadays is to call the police and then walk away from it all so you can't get charged for some bizarre thing. But if the Mother isn't charging the kid for anything, then how can the police actually charge him with anything? False imprisonment outside in a shopping area? What the fuck? and for that matter, a charge like False Imprisonment, wouldn't the mother be the one to decided whether he didn't have a right to have the child at that point or not? If she testifies on Edwin's behalf wouldn't that mean the case is tossed out anyways?

Calling the police and leaving the scene is also against the law, but leaving without calling isn't (if you weren't directly involved in the incident).

[bluestarultor]

Calling the police and leaving the scene is also against the law, but leaving without calling isn't (if you weren't directly involved in the incident).

It really should be the other way around. Or something. The "someone else will do it" mentality really is a problem. I don't think it should be rewarded.


@ Jagos: No, I had a full understanding of the article, and it wasn't confusion. I think it was just my brain's way of telling me "just walk away and pretend this never happened."

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Sadly this is becoming a bad trend. But when you hear all those cases, it is understandable that people are nervous with their little children. But to charge this young boy is plain wrong.


I'd still help the kid even if I knew I'd get arrested for bein' creepy. Being three years old and lost is no fun at all. Hell, being lost now is no fun at all, and I'm in me twenties. Better to have the kid safe and happy.

You make it too easy.

[Flarecobra]

...And my faith in humanity has dropped another couple notches.

The whole situation should not have happoned in the first place, if you ask me.

[Donomni]

He was in custody of the child and had no authority to be so

I didn't know 14 year olds could have custody over anything, let alone a kid.

Do these cops even think before making an arrest anymore? Were they under quota or some other bullshit?

[Magus]

Hopefully they drop the B.S. charges and Edwin learns to just slough lost kids off onto the nearest Burlington Coat Factory employee.

[Terex4]

On the bright side, when this all clears up all he needs to do is find a lawyer and he's set for life with all the slander and libel cases he can throw out.
Depending on how big this actually gets, he very well may have lawyers looking for him. No win no fee on multiple lawsuits for slander, libel, and ironically, false imprisonment.

If anyone should be in trouble, the girl's mother should be given the riot act about keeping track of her damn kid. Its not that hard I keep track of 4 children at the store all the time.

[Preturbed]

A redditor has refuted this article with a few claims of his own; it seems this is not such a clear-cut case after all. Decide for yourself.

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/cflhz/remember_the_14yearold_kid_in_orlando_arrested/

[bluestarultor]

A redditor has refuted this article with a few claims of his own; it seems this is not such a clear-cut case after all. Decide for yourself.

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/cflhz/remember_the_14yearold_kid_in_orlando_arrested/

Well, the videos are trustworthy. I don't know about the article, though. There's a lot of "my dad is" and "my dad says" in there, which makes for a poor argument. Also, a lot of stuff seems to have been removed.

I'd say that the videos are probably the best source. Yeah, the guy lied a bit about what happened, but shit, if I was fourteen and in the same situation, I'd embellish, too. Cops STILL scare me. At fourteen, I probably would have pissed my pants.

[Amake]

Well, at worst we have here a sick kid who have been found out and can be treated before he could hurt anyone, and proof that if you try to grab a child off the street you may get noticed. That's not so bad.

[bluestarultor]

Well, at worst we have here a sick kid who have been found out and can be treated before he could hurt anyone, and proof that if you try to grab a child off the street you may get noticed. That's not so bad.

Have you read the comments yet? I find a lot of them enlightening. There's some decent analysis in there.

I still pretty much think the kid is not guilty of doing anything wrong. Partly due to the videos, partly due to how easily the commentors shredded the OP.

[Amake]

Yeah, they had a lot to say. I figure at worst the boy is guilty of needing therapy* or being dumb as a rock. And that's in the worst case.

It seems a lot of people think it's damning that the boy took the girl straight out of the store according to security footage. That's pretty silly. If you're in his shoes, and the girl indicates or somehow you get the idea that her mom may have left the store, wouldn't you run and have a look outside? If the mom were still in the store there would be plenty of time to go back later.

*Not that a lot of teenagers couldn't use some therapy. Or adults.

[rawredy]

Cops STILL scare me. At fourteen, I probably would have pissed my pants.

I had to get questioned by the police two days ago about some kids who were trying to break into a car and I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, so I was suspected even though I was at my friend's house playing video games the entire night.
Which is a piece of information they happened to take the complete wrong way or happened to mishear because they somehow managed to think I said my friends were trying to break into a car.

My heart was racing so fast, and I was nervous as all hell.

[Naqel]

A story like many in the world we live in.

A fucked up world indeed.

[DFM]

Girl is clearly trying to lure him away from people so she can murder an eat him like the black monster she is.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Sometimes it doesn't pay to be the hero. I feel sorry for that boy now. 14 is a bit early to learn how much the world sucks.

[BitVyper]

If you're in his shoes, and the girl indicates or somehow you get the idea that her mom may have left the store, wouldn't you run and have a look outside?

Now, this is a big stupid situation and the police are overreacting like crazy, but that was the wrong move. What you should do in that situation is either stay put, or get someone (security/store staff/mom) TO stay put with the girl. Reason being that leaving creates situations exactly like this more often than not, whereas if you don't leave, the parent is likely to come back looking for their child, and even if they don't, you can still call the police, and you're not going to make things worse. It's a mistake anyone could make though, and arresting the kid for kidnapping over it is ridiculous.

[Funka Genocide]

The solution is to always call the police.

Seriously, if you're absent minded enough to lose your child in a store then you can deal with the police I call, not the other way around.

Honestly I wouldn't even talk to the kid. I'd just grab a store employee and let the security team handle it. But yeah, the kid was 14 and just trying to help a lost little girl. Pretty fucked up.

Oh and about cops, I think most of them are just trained to treat young people like shit. I was around 15 hanging out in the parking lot of my friends apartment complex when a cop car came around and shined this bright fucking light in our faces and asked us if we had been driving around shooting paintballs at other cars. The light in the face was just insulting, I was so pissed. We kept telling them we'd been inside playing video games most of the evening and they kept asking stupid questions. When I went to shield my eyes from the light they got all stupid and told me to put my arm down. I got angry and told them I should probably call my mother if they were going to arrest me, after that they sort of lost interest and left.

Law enforcement and the like just have a certain appeal to a particular personality type, not sure what the scientific term is, but I think the general parlance is "ass hole".

[BitVyper]

It doesn't really require that much absent-mindedness for this to happen. The child wandered off in a store which only really takes a two second loss of focus on the parent's part. And really, she wasn't truly missing until someone left the store with her. The mother was obviously on the ball enough to call the police and run out after the kid.

I mean, it is a mistake, but it's not any more of a mistake than walking out of a store with someone's child. If we should be taking anything away from this, it's to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Edit: I watched the security footage. It looks more like the Reddit article is exaggerating. It's just one of those hilarious misunderstanding sitcom moments except they're not quite as funny when they happen in real life.

[Funka Genocide]

I call bullshit. You've got to be spacing out to lose your small child. You should probably have them by the hand whenever you're in a situation where they might wander off anyways.

I got lost in a coat store when I was like 3, strangely enough. And it was because my dad was a dumb ass and I was a 3 year old who liked to hide in the coat racks.

I guess I can understand the reactionary nature of someone losing their kid, but they really should have had the wherewithal to pull their shit together before an innocent teenager has to be arrested.

Obviously I'm just anti parents and children though. Make it easier on yourself, don't procreate!

[Seil]

Remember the mother who let her son ride home via the subway alone? This is her side of the story. (http://theweek.com/article/index/96342/the-last-word-advice-from-americas-worst-mom)

It doesn't really require that much absent-mindedness for this to happen.

It's taking me longer to find the story than I expected, but there was a recent bit here when a woman left her child in the cart after she picked up groceries. The police found the phone number on a toy the child had on him, and called the mother without pressing charges.

It was a "These things happen." thing.

Law enforcement and the like just have a certain appeal to a particular personality type, not sure what the scientific term is, but I think the general parlance is "ass hole".

The cops in BC are okay. Maybe yours was just having a bad day.

[BitVyper]

You've got to be spacing out to lose your small child

Have you actually watched the footage? The child is not lost. The mother just got focused on paying (and not all of us can one-hand a wallet) and someone walked out of the store with her.

You can't have your eyes and hands on them all the time.

[Funka Genocide]

I think 3 is a bit young (although by that age I think kids should know their address and phone number, but still)

But yeah, 9 is fine. I used to walk home from school alone and go to the park and the corner store on my bike when I was 9. Just because it's the "New York Subway" doesn't really mean anything. You're just as likely to get gunned down on your own as you are holding your mom's hand. (and not very likely at that.)

Kids should have some amount of autonomy by the age of 4 or 5 I think. They start kindergarten at 5 usually, and after that it's all about being your own person, albeit in miniature size.

Edit: nah haven't watched the video, at work, don't want to bogart the bandwidth. But still, its a matter of terrible communication skills at work and over reacting due to paranoia judging by the info I read.

Also, I think I mentioned that parenting is dumb.

[krogothwolf]

Obviously I'm just anti parents and children though. Make it easier on yourself, don't procreate!

Dude, extinction for the human species in your planning book?

As a new parent though I've been thinking about this. You really don't need to be absent minded to lose her for 2 seconds. Especially when in a department store. If you're in the clothing section it can take maybe 1-2 seconds with your back turned before the kid decides it'd be funny to hid on it and then think they are playing hide and go seek. Though usually you would respond quickly but those kids are small so it could be troublesome to find. IF it does happen though she should have gone to the front desk and had them call a code adam(or whatever it is were you live) and then pretty much everyone on the floor stops and starts looking for the lost kid.

But yeah, you;d have to have eyes in the back of your head to not lose sight of a kid for a brief second or 2.

Even though what the kid did was wrong, he still only 14. Might not really understand that stuff yet and thought he was just helping.

[Funka Genocide]

Note: I'm not really against parents. I just don't like that wild eyed reactionary bent that seems to crop up in most parents under child-related stress. I can understand where it comes from, I just don't like it.

[krogothwolf]

Note: I'm not really against parents. I just don't like that wild eyed reactionary bent that seems to crop up in most parents under child-related stress. I can understand where it comes from, I just don't like it.

I was joking though? But what do you mean by wild eyed reactionary bent?

[Osterbaum]

He means YOU.

Dude, extinction for the human species in your planning book?
We could certainly afford to thin our numbers a bit.

[krogothwolf]

He means YOU.

Bah, I haven't ran into stress yet! Besides, there's a slave market if things get dicey, could make a pretty could profit from that.

[Funka Genocide]

Mother: "Ok do I need the original credit card to return this? Hold on let me..."

*looks around, notices child is missing*

Mother: has anybody seen my daughter? Anybody?! Oh my god mY DAUGHTER GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY YOU PIECES OF SHIT I'VE GOT A FUCKING GUN, I NEED MY DAUGHTER! I WILL SHOOT YOU IN THE FUCKING FACE ARGRABBABABALELE!"

*pulls out gun, shoots bewildered Macy's clerk in the face*

[krogothwolf]

Mother: "Ok do I need the original credit card to return this? Hold on let me..."

*looks around, notices child is missing*

Mother: has anybody seen my daughter? Anybody?! Oh my god mY DAUGHTER GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY YOU PIECES OF SHIT I'VE GOT A FUCKING GUN, I NEED MY DAUGHTER! I WILL SHOOT YOU IN THE FUCKING FACE ARGRABBABABALELE!"

*pulls out gun, shoots bewildered Macy's clerk in the face*

Why does everyone pick on the poor Macy's Clerk, what did they ever do to you!

Yeah I can see that. The parents that bug me the most are the ones that let their kid scream or run around causing mayhem in the store and DO NOTHING, or they buy the kid something to shut em up. I swear the minute my daughter does that we're going right home and she's going to bed early, with bread and water for supper....and a Troll guarding her door so she can't escape.

[Funka Genocide]

I can describe most parents I run across in one word. "Defeated."

It takes gusto to raise a child, if you don't have that then don't even try!

[Nique]

It takes gusto to raise a child, if you don't have that then don't even try!

Amen!

[Aerozord]

I think the trick is to be helpful in the most indirect way possible, even through its considerably less helpful. And always try and stay anamous. Like dont actually hand the kid over, just point him in the right direction and run away before anyone has time to realize what happened. Sucks you have to do crap like that, but US legal system is really going down hill. Quickly becoming a guilty until prooven innocent society as peoples fear and paranoia overcome any concept of justice and faith.

Should always remember your average person is a decent human being, and stop fixating on the fraction of a percent that aren't.

[bluestarultor]

Here's another point of interest. The girl didn't struggle or look scared at all. The footage is too shitty to say if anyone said anything, but if she was scared, she didn't show it.

Of course, she also didn't say, "Hey, dumbass, my mom's right there."

Just figured I'd point out another factor in this.

[Seil]

You know, I can't find a story just like this to prove a point I had about people getting far too worked up about pedophilia in today's society.

It was a story about a father at a fairground, and his kids (along with several others) were going down a big slide, or something like that. Anyways, the father took a few pictures of his kids having fun while some other parents asked him to stop taking pictures. He asked why, and they told him they thought he was a pedophile. A comment which caused the guy to find the cops, or the nearest security guard, and get the guard to affirm that the father was in the right.

I think I even posted that story here, but I can't search "Father takes pictures of kids" and "Pedophile" without getting some nightmare fuel and the FBI seizing my hard drive. Anyways, people are getting far too worked up over pedophilia these days. From Shiney's mouth from the Sesame Street thread (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=25700&):

It's sarcasm. He's saying that the entire basis for classifying it as "not cool for kids" is ridiculous because it is exactly what the fuck kids need to see. The world is too cynical, too overprotective right now. Kids need to have friends, need to eat cookies, need to be hyperactive at times. So your kid met a stranger? Doesn't mean that stranger is prowling for goddamn rape, this is a fucking kids show. Seeing it on Sesame Street isn't going to make some kid run outside looking for the milk and cookies guy, and end up on the 10:00 news. Oscar needs to be a pissant because there's a pissant everywhere. Our pissant is named fifthfiend!!

[Magus]

Three year old kids are stupid and expecting them to know their address and phone number, or even last name, and not be lured away by strangers is unrealistic. Just thought I'd toss that out there. As such, expecting the kid to point out that their mother is right there or be scared of strangers is expecting a bit much of what amounts to about a dog's intelligence.

[Seil]

Three year old kids are stupid

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs007.snc3/11432_725375968717_13601425_42469351_2248347_n.jpg

That's a statement my three year old niece and I take offense to. She's quite smart.

[Aerozord]

the fact you refer to her as "smart" implies that your average three year old is of lower intellect. so the statement is still valid

[Aldurin]

People can get arrested for helping children find their parents? This world is taking Congress's example of what comes from right and wrong. If you do a good thing you get grilled for a shitload of unforeseen or just plain stupid stuff. If you ignore the opportunity to do a good thing then you get less attention which means less criminal charges for stupid stuff.

[Donomni]

That's a statement my three year old niece and I take offense to. She's quite smart.[/color]

Well, my baby sister is two and a half years old and is smart enough to have actual conversations with people, but she's an exception.

Most kids are kinda... not-smart. Unfortunately, childhood is supposed to be an age of exploration and learning, but most people think along the lines of "Keep them as safe as possible beyond reason and subconsciously groom them to vote for <Parent's political party here>" instead of letting the kids be kids.

Because, as we all know, children as individuals is VEDDY VEDDY BAD.

[Krylo]

Kids aren't stupid. They're inexperienced and naive.

If we were to quantify intelligence as the ability to absorb, retain, and utilize information, as opposed to just the amount of information already retained, you know, like it should be, then children are quantifiably smarter than any person here.

[Geminex]

Though I think with already-retained information (i.e. experience), it becomes a lot easier to absorb, retain, utilize additional information.

[Krylo]

Utilize, yes. Absorb and retain, no.

A child's brain is wired in order to absorb and retain information far better than yours or mine. It's why children can learn languages much faster than adults can, and by merely being exposed to them, for instance.

Obviously when you get into advanced fields you need to have information to build on in order to truly understand a subject, and understanding aids in retention, however a child would still absorb said information faster so long as they were given the prior information as well.

However, there's only so much you can teach someone, no matter how adept they are at absorbing, in a limited time--and logic is useless without valid and complete precedents. Thus children make 'foolish' mistakes from time to time due to naivete. That doesn't make them stupid.

[bluestarultor]

Man, try talking to a kid with Asperger's. My cousin has it. The kid was like three years old and you could talk with him about politics and God.

[Seil]

the fact you refer to her as "smart" implies that your average three year old is of lower intellect. so the statement is still valid

"The" and "So." Capital letters at the beginning of every sentence, man.

"You're," "your" and "you are." Learn the difference atwixt these.

An' I'm not entirely sure, but you've got a run-on sentence in there - I think.

Well, my baby sister is two and a half years old and is smart enough to have actual conversations with people, but she's an exception.

Yeah, Quinn is like that. She picks up on things quick, and talks with a rather large vocabulary for someone who's not yet in grade one.

Kids aren't stupid. They're inexperienced and naive.

I think this too, yeah and I'm too lazy to quote Don here about experience and learning but I kinda agree with that, too. Children are inexperienced, yes - but that's because they've been here for three years. I've been here for twenty or so and have been in school for a bit. I consider Quinn smart because as a previous camp counselor, I've seen a few kids of... average intelligence. I dun wanna use "average intelligence" because it implies that (a) they have accurate means of gauging IQ now, (b) there is a standard of intelligence for three-year olds.

[Kim]

Kids are ignorant. Everyone is really. Kids just moreso because they haven't had the opportunity to learn more yet. So while saying "Kids are stupid" is technically incorrect, his reason for saying it is still valid.

[Fenris]

"You're," "your" and "you are." Learn the difference atwixt these.

As big of a fan as I am of mocking Aerozord - and I am, trust me - he actually used the proper form of "your" here.

Also, "you're" and "you are" are the same thing.

I mean if you're gonna grammar nazi, then grammar nazi correctly.

[Kim]

I mean if you're gonna grammar nazi, then grammar nazi correctly.

I think you mean "if your gonna grammar nazi"...

[Aerozord]

no I think its you're, as in you are. Your is possessive.

edit for actual contribution to the discussion: point is your average three year old doesn't know alot of his personal information. They simply aren't taught it. How often is a three year old refered to by their full name? Even if they knew it probably cant spell it. Their number? They dont even use the phone but you expect them to be taught 10 digit numbers? Young children only recently learned to talk and are working on the base knowledge to read, write, count, ect. To most parents personal information isn't a priority. You can argue that we should be teaching kids this, but fact is most dont and you cant expect them to

[Fenris]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/NuklearFenris/overhead.png?t=1276980307

[Loyal]

Small inconsistency with the above image; I have rectified it:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2agl2k0.png[/img]"]To scale version:
http://i45.tinypic.com/303fymq.jpg

[Magus]

That's like a metajoke right there.

Okay, kids aren't stupid, the just totally lack basic knowledge about pretty much everything and haven't had enough experience to learn that strangers are bad. So I'll revise my statement to "three year old kids don't know anything, similar to dogs, though given enough time and years they do eventually become more knowledgeable than dogs." They are pretty self-absorbed, though, so expecting them to think "Hey my mother might freak out if I disappear" shouldn't be expected of them. Hell, when I was three I remember hiding under my bed one time just to make my mother freak out when she couldn't find me. I was a little asshole!

[Doc ock rokc]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/NuklearFenris/overhead.png?t=1276980307

Small inconsistency with the above image; I have rectified it:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2agl2k0.png[/img]"]To scale version:
http://i45.tinypic.com/303fymq.jpg

actually the rule is that you write You're as a contraction or a combination, of the words you and are and you write your as the possessive form of you, referring to something that a person has, something that belongs to the person in question or, the person you are talking to.

...so he has it in the correct fashion.

also Why the fuck does every good action in society have to be ignored, punished or abused. I have gotten into trouble more times Helping other people then by my own actions. I understand the "if you do something right some people will never know you did anything at all." thing but for fucks sake Why does the noticement have to be someone wanting something from you or to hunt you down and punish you.

[Kim]

...so he has it in the correct fashion.HRNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

[Magus]

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3201/themetajoke.jpg

[Doc ock rokc]

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3201/themetajoke.jpg

How much I care. |-|
How much I give a shit. |

[EVILNess]

That was the best set of posts ever on the history of NPF.

I am still laughing.

[bluestarultor]

Okay, kids aren't stupid, the just totally lack basic knowledge about pretty much everything and haven't had enough experience to learn that strangers are bad.

Gkh!


Okay, I'm going to say this as calmly as possible. Given that 90% of the world are, at heart, decent people, and 90% of even the irredeemable assholes melt like butter when presented with a kid, the idea that strangers are inherently bad is everything wrong with this situation.

Strangers are not bad. Statistically, a stranger is FAR more likely to help a kid than harm one, and when I say "far," I mean that the chances of them meeting a pedophile at random are vanishing at best. Teaching kids that strangers are horrible monsters who are going to rape and murder them reflects the stupidly strong and increasing paranoia that represents one of the worst things wrong with the world today.

[Magus]

Pedophiles actively look for kids to kidnap, though, it's not exactly random.

EDIT: Actively look when they're not raping their close relatives, of course, so perhaps you are entirely correct.

Also I meant "strangers are bad" in a Mr. Mackey type of way, i.e. everyone says strangers are bad, strangers are bad, mmkay? I personally don't give two shits about strangers or kids.

[Donomni]

HRNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

Trust me on this one: it's much easier being a "End-Your-Goddamn-Sentence-Nazi" than a straight up Grammar Nazi.

[Yumil]

Teaching kids that strangers are horrible monsters who are going to rape and murder them reflects the stupidly strong and increasing paranoia that represents one of the worst things wrong with the world today.

The problem is without teaching them not to trust strangers, if one of those child rapists does show up and the kid trusts him, the kid's fucked(both literally and figuratively).

Teaching your kids not to trust someone till they've earned it(in particular, at that age, pretty much just people you trust yourself) is not a bad thing and will probably help them in life later on when people like to take advantage of people who are far too trusting.

[bluestarultor]

The problem is without teaching them not to trust strangers, if one of those child rapists does show up and the kid trusts him, the kid's fucked(both literally and figuratively).

Teaching your kids not to trust someone till they've earned it(in particular, at that age, pretty much just people you trust yourself) is not a bad thing and will probably help them in life later on when people like to take advantage of people who are far too trusting.

While that's partly true, there's a difference between teaching them to be discerning and paralyzing them with fear. What happens when they actually need to ask for help? Maybe it doesn't come up much, but then neither do kidnappings. By teaching them to be discerning, as in knowing what is and isn't appropriate, kind of like we used to when I was a kid, it's more for them to absorb, but it's ultimately better for them because they're not crying themselves to sleep every night over all the bad, bad men that are out to get them.


Edit: Actually, thinking more on it, no, that's not true at all. Not only are you paralyzing them with fear, but you're breeding a policy of mistrust, which probably makes for a very jaded individual and could hamper their ability to make connections for the rest of their lives. After all, if they're taught people are all assholes, they hold no faith in them and you end up with someone like (oh, the irony) me*. The fact of the matter is that pedophiles are incredibly rare, and they don't just stumble across kids to molest. They molest kids in their own families or neighborhoods, or go to places where kids congregate. A kid is more likely to get hit by a bus than meet one randomly walking down the street. By teaching kids when NOT to trust people instead of teaching them when TO trust them, you open up many more possibilities for them to interact, where if you close that all off, you likewise impose a limit on how far they can reach out to other people.


*note: I had other things teach me people could be jerks. My parents actually got the strangers thing right.

[Amake]

As someone who was raised in a small community where the concept of strangers, let alone of not trusting them, never really came up, I can say it's pretty awesome to be "far too trusting". Yeah, you get hurt some, and some people take advantage of you, but it's worth that as it turns out people in general are pretty good, and trust makes it easy to build very close friendships.

Just thought I'd throw that in with the parenting debate.

[pochercoaster]

While that's partly true, there's a difference between teaching them to be discerning and paralyzing them with fear. What happens when they actually need to ask for help? Maybe it doesn't come up much, but then neither do kidnappings. By teaching them to be discerning, as in knowing what is and isn't appropriate, kind of like we used to when I was a kid, it's more for them to absorb, but it's ultimately better for them because they're not crying themselves to sleep every night over all the bad, bad men that are out to get them.

QFT

Caution is what kids should be taught. By insulating your children they won't be able to tell the difference between a safe and an unsafe situation, and will either end up trusting everyone or no one. The differences between these situations can be very subtle and if you aren't given an idea of what normal behaviour is, you have nothing to compare them against. Potentially you will blindly walk into danger because of your failure to recognize these cues. On the other end of the spectrum, you will potentially be fearful of people when 99.9% of them don't have ill intentions.

I could go on and on about how this relates to women specifically- about weird mixed messages that tell women to feel guilty if they are not polite and complacent, yet ever vigilant about the variety of rapists and serial killers that lurk around the corner. A common reaction among raped women isn't "how did this happen to me?" but "how did I let this happen to me?" Pretty fucked up that the blame is placed on the woman. Then they (the media) point out that she accepted a drink from a stranger, or wore a skirt on the bus, or whatever, so now it's HER fault for not heeding the sage advice of society to be fearful of everyone and never leave the house. Not very good tools to work with, yeah?

[bluestarultor]

I think this was referenced before, but since Seil was kind enough to provide a link, I'm just going to drop this follow-up essay on the woman who let her kid ride the subway alone:

http://theweek.com/article/index/96342/the-last-word-advice-from-americas-worst-mom

Not an issue: his rape and murder after a year of doing so.

[Nique]

Actually, thinking more on it, no, that's not true at all. Not only are you paralyzing them with fear, but you're breeding a policy of mistrust, which probably makes for a very jaded individual and could hamper their ability to make connections for the rest of their lives.

I wanted to add to this - The less socialized a child is (and socializing is an expression of a certain level of trust in the people you are socializing with/to), the less likely they are going to have the ability to discern when someone is actually trying to hurt them. Kid's who are naive' and shy AND mistrustful? Sounds pretty easy to manipulate to me - all you have to do is play on basic fears and desires. A kid with a better understanding of how to read social cues and interact with others would, I'm guessing, have a better idea of what someone's intentions are.