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Seil
06-16-2010, 11:55 AM
Link (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Hate+attacks+against+gays+spike+2008+StatsCan/3153745/story.html)

Apparently, we hate everyone and we're beating the crap out of each other for being different.

...That's profoundly disturbing.

OTTAWA — The number of anti-gay hate crimes, particularly violence against homosexual males, increased dramatically in 2008, according to new figures released Monday by Statistics Canada.

The study found the number of hate crimes motivated by sexual orientation more than doubled in 2008 compared to the previous year and were more likely to involve violence than racially and religiously motivated attacks.

In fact, three-quarters of all hate crimes against homosexuals involved violence, compared with 38 per cent of racially motivated crimes and a quarter of religiously motivated crimes.

Men accounted for 85 per cent of the victims and most of the incidents occurred in Toronto and Vancouver, the study found.

While the increase is likely due to more reporting of incidents to police, Helen Kennedy, executive director of Egale Canada said it's an alarming reality that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered Canadians know all too well and that governments can no longer ignore.

"Reports of incidents have gone up and I think that's directly related to some of the training we're doing with the police and to engage the community to try and encourage people to report these incidents," she said, noting an estimated 75 per cent of cases still go unreported.

"We've known for years and years that we have a big problem with violence against the LGBT community . . . and I don't think the government can continue to sweep this under the carpet and say that we have great legislation in Canada to protect LGBT communities (when) the reality is that we're not."

The Statistics Canada figures suggest young people between the ages of 12 and 22 are responsible for six in 10 hate crimes; the majority of those accused being 17 or 18.

Kennedy said that's consistent with Egale's own research and suggested efforts to reverse this alarming trend need to begin in schools.

Teachers need to be better trained in how to deal with anti-gay incidents that arise in classrooms and school corridors and young people need resources to be able to defend themselves and speak openly, she said.

"We need curriculum that reflects kids with queer parents . . . We need curriculum that addresses the LGBT community through history," she added. "There's a ton of work that needs to be done in this area."

Constance Backhouse, a University of Ottawa law professor who specializes in sexual and racial discrimination, suggested both society as a whole and same-sex couples themselves have become more comfortable with public displays of homosexuality.

Noting that may not sit well with some, she suggested that too, could explain the rise in anti-gay incidents.

"We have started to move in our culture and our society and in our laws towards greater acceptance of gay and lesbian and bisexual reality," she said.

"Gay men and lesbians may be more out. They may be more publicly visible than they had been before. They may feel greater freedom to be out in public spaces together.

"This may be an indication of a backlash to that."

According to Statistics Canada, police agencies across the country reported 1,036 hate crimes in 2008, up 35 per cent from a year earlier.

About 42 per cent of all hate crimes were violent in nature, involving assaults and uttering threats, while mischief and vandalism occurred in 47 per cent of the incidents.

Crimes related to sexual orientation actually accounted for just 16 per cent of all hate incidents, while 55 per cent were motivated by race or ethnicity and 26 per cent by religion.

The report found religiously motivated incidents increased by 53 per cent with about two-thirds of the crimes targeted Jews. Police agencies reported 165 incidents targeting Jews in 2008, a 42 per cent increase over the previous year.

B'nai Brith Canada said the figures don't come as much of a surprise and are consistent with its own findings.

Anita Bromberg, the organization's national director of legal affairs, suggested incidents against Jews tend to be influenced by the political climate in the Middle East.

She suggested the growing tension that led to the armed conflict in Gaza in late 2008 may have also impacted hate crimes against Jews, and she said she anticipates another spike in anti-Semitism as a result of the recent confrontation between Israeli forces and activists aboard a Gaza-bound flotilla that resulted in nine fatalities.

"Our audit certainly reflects that when tension in the Middle East arises, so do hate crimes," she said.

About four in 10 hate crimes in 2008 were reported by police in Toronto and Vancouver. After accounting for population differences, rates were higher in several small Ontario cities including London, Guelph, Kingston and Brantford, Statistics Canada said.

Vancouver, Hamilton and Kitchener, Ont., were among the larger census areas to report high rates of hate crimes.

And it's not just gay people, it's all hate-crime:

Link (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Hate+crimes+rise+tolerant+city/3156940/story.html)

Metro Vancouver residents who pride themselves on their tolerance have to face the bad news that hate crimes have almost doubled in this diverse city.

Statistics Canada reported Monday that Metro Vancouver was the only major city in Canada that has seen a rise in all three categories of hate crimes -based on ethnicity, religion and sexual orientation.

The news is particularly disturbing for blacks and Jews. Despite making up a tiny fraction of Metro Vancouver's population, the data suggests blacks were the most common victims of race crimes and Jews the most frequent subjects of "religious" hatred.

But Metro Vancouver gays and lesbians also have reason to feel anxious. In a report that comes after two downtown Vancouver men were beaten Saturday night by young assailants shouting homophobic insults, Statistics Canada says Metro Vancouver joins Quebec City in having "the highest proportions of hate crimes motivated by sexual orientation."

The StatsCan report compares changes in police-reported hate crimes between 2008 and 2007. These independently verified hate crimes jumped 35 per cent in 2008 across the country, to a national total of 1,036. In Metro Vancouver, they leaped a startling 81 per cent, for a total of 143.

Even though StatsCan reminds us that "reported" hate crimes don't always correspond with the actual rate of such crimes, the trend line reminds us a small, self-righteous and angry fraction of the population continues to scapegoat people based solely on their ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation.

For good or ill, those Canadians who engage in hate crimes are mostly young. Across Canada, six in 10 people accused of hate crimes were between 12 and 22 years, which fortunately suggests that blind bigotry eases with the passing of the years.

Two figures in the StatsCan data for Metro's stand out as shocking.

Even though blacks make up only one per cent of Metro's population, far less than other visible minorities, the city's blacks are, proportionally, by far the biggest victims of hate crimes.

There were 16 reported hate crimes against Metro blacks in 2008, compared to 11 against East and Southeast Asians, 11 against South Asians and two against whites.

Even though blacks were also victims of the most reported hate crimes on a national basis, that can in part be statistically explained by the existence of large black populations in cities such as Toronto and Montreal.

However, it's even more alarming when the data shows blacks are most often assaulted, threatened or robbed because of their race in Metro Vancouver, where their numbers are minuscule.

Jews also make up only one per cent of Metro residents, but were far more likely than members of other religions to report a hate crime.

Twenty-eight Jews were subjected to hate crimes in the city in 2008 (up from nine in 2007). That compared to three reported crimes against Catholics, one against Muslims and eight against "other religions."

The hate crimes involving Jews were not as severe as those involving blacks. Unlike with blacks, none of the crimes against Jews included assault. Two thirds of hate crimes against Jews were described as "mischief," usually vandalism.

While hate crimes can justifiably send shock waves through communities, it is wise to avoid sensationalizing these new statistics.

Although reported hate crimes rose, sociologists say such reporting goes up when members of a community feel more trusting police will take their complaints seriously. In addition, Vancouver's hate-crimes ratio is only marginally harsher than that of Toronto or Ottawa. The odds against being a victim of hate in Metro Vancouver continues to be a relatively healthy one in 16,000. The vast majority of city residents continue to practice the tolerance they preach.

POS Industries
06-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Yeah, that's pretty bad.

So Seil, what are your thoughts on why that is? What is your analysis of the trend and conjecture on the root cause of the problem? How do you think, perhaps as a citizen of Canada yourself, that you and your countrymen could go about trying to solve it?

Because right now it looks like all you've got is a thread started with a couple links, two entire articles in quote boxes getting into TL;DR territory, a line that adds up to "Welp that's pretty lame" and then hoping against hope that the rest of us will get a discussion rolling from it. And you pretty much do this with every thread you make.

And if you keep it up like this, you probably won't be able to make threads anymore at all. I'm really trying to help you out here.

Hanuman
06-16-2010, 04:22 PM
Sounds like all the 13 year olds on Xbox live shouting "that's gay" then teabagging is starting to enrage the slow big knuckled kiddies.

Thadius
06-16-2010, 04:48 PM
And people wonder why I'm starting to lose faith in humanity... Some days I wonder how hatred like this can continue to exist. Really I do.

Seriously. Stupid shit like this? Makes me wonder just what the hell is in the water/air these days. To quote Shakespeare: 'If you prick us, do we not bleed?' (May be missing a few words, but you get it.)

I don't discriminate based on religion, color, orientation, gender, so on and so forth. The only thing I do discriminate against is if you prove you're a moron. Which apparently quite a few people are intent on doing...

krogothwolf
06-16-2010, 05:03 PM
Seriously. Stupid shit like this? Makes me wonder just what the hell is in the water/air these days. To quote Shakespeare: 'If you prick us, do we not bleed?' (May be missing a few words, but you get it.)

It's a little longer but yeah, you got the first part right.

This makes me very sad for Canada, I don't really understand why people do this. Low Self-Esteem? Poor Education? Down on their luck? Doesn't really excuse bashing other people but at least it gives a reasoning. Just doing it because it really bad. Anti-Gay and Anti-Religion are usually easy for someone to get into because they seem to find each other easier now. You think we'll ever mature to the point were people realize that all this hating is pointless?

Hanuman
06-16-2010, 05:08 PM
It's a little longer but yeah, you got the first part right.

This makes me very sad for Canada, I don't really understand why people do this. Low Self-Esteem? Poor Education? Down on their luck? Doesn't really excuse bashing other people but at least it gives a reasoning. Just doing it because it really bad. Anti-Gay and Anti-Religion are usually easy for someone to get into because they seem to find each other easier now. You think we'll ever mature to the point were people realize that all this hating is pointless?
We have no poverty or poor education, low self esteem is semi-abundant but less vampiric than america, we are all pretty fortunate.... the poorest people I know are also the happiest since it's so easy to live here.

The problem really is just bad parenting, any bad teaching is the fault of the parents since it's the parent's job to mandate the teachers, and since teachers are collared and bolted to the floor with a 4" chain you really can't blame the teachers for teaching what won't get them sued.

Fenris
06-16-2010, 06:46 PM
We have no poverty or poor education,

:raise:

Seriously just because your government doesn't measure poverty doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's like covering your eyes before getting in a car accident. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope
06-16-2010, 07:35 PM
We have no poverty or poor education, low self esteem is semi-abundant but less vampiric than america, we are all pretty fortunate.... the poorest people I know are also the happiest since it's so easy to live here.

The problem really is just bad parenting, any bad teaching is the fault of the parents since it's the parent's job to mandate the teachers, and since teachers are collared and bolted to the floor with a 4" chain you really can't blame the teachers for teaching what won't get them sued.

There is so much wrong here.

I know someone who had a good mom and tried to provide. But he dropped out of high-school and become a drug addict/seller and was arrested and did time in Drumheller.

I also know people who could barely put food on their table. When someone is working 2 jobs to provide shelter and food. They are living in poverty.

I know someone who dropped out of highschool. Granted he got lucky in his job, but the moment his luck runs out, he will be in trouble.

bluestarultor
06-16-2010, 08:06 PM
We have no poverty or poor education, low self esteem is semi-abundant but less vampiric than america, we are all pretty fortunate.... the poorest people I know are also the happiest since it's so easy to live here.

The problem really is just bad parenting, any bad teaching is the fault of the parents since it's the parent's job to mandate the teachers, and since teachers are collared and bolted to the floor with a 4" chain you really can't blame the teachers for teaching what won't get them sued.

There is SO much wrong with this.

First off, on poverty, we just had a thread on the fall of Victoria to the unsavory elements of society (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=38172).

Second off, you probably don't know many homeless people. I'm guessing, just a hunch, that Canada's weather is a mite closer to Wisconsin's weather than, say, Florida's, which means you have this thing called winter when water stops moving and white stuff falls from the sky. Something closely associated with that is a very uncomfortable feeling called "cold." So, you know, maybe it's fine to be poor so long as you're poor like poor people in America and have an apartment with climate control and probably cable TV. I dunno about you, but the idea of this "cold" thing and waking up in the gutter covered with white stuff doesn't sound very appealing. If you knew a few more homeless people, you might hear a few more complaints.

Thirdly, I'm absolutely sure that white supremacy is a core part of most school curricula. After all, it wasn't those darkies that made modern society! Looking at Wikipedia, it says the library (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library), the bastion of knowledge came from, hmmm... I guess the Arabs did that. No matter, because chemistry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry), which makes all our plastics and stuff... was also the Arabs. Well, fuck that, because we have gunpowder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder)! Nothing is more a testament to European superiority than... the Chinese? Fuck, was it just my school?



In all seriousness, dude, really? I get that history is invariably white history, but teachers have as much to do with breeding racism as Rhesus monkeys have to do with recent advances in particle physics. That's a social thing derived from family and friends. Poverty and poor education are going to be realities in ANY country. Don't kid yourself.

Hanuman
06-16-2010, 10:46 PM
I keep forgetting you guys don't know me and therefore don't get my humor.
Second off, you probably don't know many homeless people.
Do vagabonds count? I know about a dozen vagabonds, they aren't broken and desperate but they are without home or money-- and they lead amazing wonderful lives.

I'm guessing, just a hunch, that Canada's weather is a mite closer to Wisconsin's weather than, say, Florida's, which means you have this thing called winter when water stops moving and white stuff falls from the sky.
I would love for some snow, man, it's been years since I had a snowball fight. Last time I made a snow fort was bliz'o'96

I know someone who dropped out of highschool. Granted he got lucky in his job, but the moment his luck runs out, he will be in trouble.
Only if he is a noobie =] If you got a sleeping bag, a backpack and a set of clothes you can live quite well here, honest.

Man, there is so much traffic for vancouver CSing that you could spend half your time filled living that way (even if unlucky in findings), biking end to end from UBC to commercial drive is 2 hours tops so you don't have to pay for travel, possibly doing programming work from a laptop in cybercafes and you could be saving up for that next thing you wanted 5 times as fast as if you had a home, and unless you are prissy you'd be just as comfy, for srs.

bluestarultor
06-16-2010, 11:04 PM
Whew! I was afraid you'd take my (admittedly scathing) humor badly. :sweatdrop

Seriously, though, how the fuck does Canada have a zone 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Vancouver)? Truly, you live in a magical imaginary-land. :raise:

POS Industries
06-16-2010, 11:05 PM
possibly doing programming work from a laptop in cybercafes
I really don't think you have a grasp on how homelessness actually works.

bluestarultor
06-16-2010, 11:10 PM
I really don't think you have a grasp on how homelessness actually works.

Of course not. He has palm trees where he lives. Palm trees!

Clearly, the normal rules don't apply in this magical region.

DFM
06-16-2010, 11:27 PM
I hate the homeless for having it better than me!

Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope
06-16-2010, 11:28 PM
Only if he is a noobie =] If you got a sleeping bag, a backpack and a set of clothes you can live quite well here, honest.


In Vancouver maybe. Check my location I live in Alberta. Last winter we had a deep freeze for a week. -40 weather.

Yrcrazypa
06-17-2010, 02:48 AM
Personally, I think that people who can rationalize hurting or killing other people for minor things such as religion, sexuality, gender, or race are VERY dangerous people. It takes a sick mind to do something like that to people for being different.

krogothwolf
06-17-2010, 09:45 AM
Personally, I think that people who can rationalize hurting or killing other people for minor things such as religion, sexuality, gender, or race are VERY dangerous people. It takes a sick mind to do something like that to people for being different.

I would like to say, anyone wanting to do that regardless of the reason is a sick mind. Though the ones who do it just for kicks are worse. I was just saying earlier that at least I can understand why. They want to make themselves feel better by bashing down someone else. Not a good reason, but that can be fixed. The ones who do it for kicks can't really be fixed.

I say everyone who's racist or sexist or religion hater, should be sent to

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/death_camp_tolerance_south_park.jpg

shiney
06-17-2010, 03:08 PM
Can't help but notice Seil hasn't even been back to discuss the thread he STARTED.

Seil
06-17-2010, 03:23 PM
Krylo scared me off. I'm trying to keep a low profile - seriously.

Krylo
06-17-2010, 03:25 PM
Krylo scared me off. I'm trying to keep a low profile - seriously.But I haven't even posted here.

Well, until just now.

BitVyper
06-17-2010, 03:45 PM
I really don't think you have a grasp on how homelessness actually works.

Depends on the homeless person. I know at least one person in Vancouver who does pretty much exactly what Lev says.

Sometimes it's a lifestyle a person makes a rational choice to live. Not saying that's the common way, but it's not UNcommon either.

bluestarultor
06-17-2010, 04:42 PM
Depends on the homeless person. I know at least one person in Vancouver who does pretty much exactly what Lev says.

Sometimes it's a lifestyle a person makes a rational choice to live. Not saying that's the common way, but it's not UNcommon either.

I was told once by a college professor that companies love having people from cold climates because of their work ethic. As he summed it up, people from warm climates know they can sleep on a bench if they have to because it's warm; if you're in a cold climate, it breeds a culture of working your ass off to make sure you're not freezing your ass off.

Seil
06-17-2010, 04:57 PM
But I haven't even posted here.

Well, until just now.

Er... POS.

Bard The 5th LW
06-17-2010, 05:18 PM
Alternatively, Seil can see the future and knew Krylo would post.

Loyal
06-17-2010, 08:51 PM
Alternatively, Krylo and POS are the same person, backed up by their simultaneous appointment to PR Guy and Moderator, respectively.

Depends on the homeless person. I know at least one person in Vancouver who does pretty much exactly what Lev says.

Sometimes it's a lifestyle a person makes a rational choice to live. Not saying that's the common way, but it's not UNcommon either. I think I can safely say we are NOT referring to this 'Lifestyle Choice' when we refer to homelessness.

POS Industries
06-17-2010, 09:28 PM
I'm reminded of something from Herbert Hoover's memoirs where he wrote that he honestly believed people were quitting their jobs to have exciting careers in the field of selling oranges by the roadside.

BitVyper
06-18-2010, 12:44 AM
I was told once by a college professor that companies love having people from cold climates because of their work ethic.

Well if a college professor said it...

Yrcrazypa
06-18-2010, 01:22 AM
I'm from a cold place and my work ethic isn't as good as it should be. Pretty sure he was spewing bullcrap.

DFM
06-18-2010, 12:55 PM
I think that anyone who's okay with just being homeless, warm climate or no, probably isn't looking for a job anyway.

bluestarultor
06-18-2010, 12:58 PM
*shrug*

Seemed relevant at the time.

Funka Genocide
06-18-2010, 01:28 PM
I'm pretty sure that little blurb about "more reported incidents" sums it all up.

It's probably not much of an increase in actual hate crime activity, but an increase in the reporting of such things, which is actually a good thing.

Maybe I'm just overly optimistic though. I like Toronto, go there often and it always seems like a really tolerant place with a really varied cultural makeup. I'm sure people mutter things under their breath about other cultures but eh, people suck. (and here I may be too pessimistic, all within a single paragraph!)

Teenage males are fucktards. They like to punch things, animals, each other and other people. They'll use any excuse to do so. Note that this is an unfair generalization not meant to be taken seriously.

Hanuman
06-19-2010, 01:52 AM
I really don't think you have a grasp on how homelessness actually works.
It's quite simple, if you're smart and prepared you do extremely well, if you are a noob and unprepared you do extremely poorly.
I can't see a problem, but that's just local homeless, don't know about a capitalist driven society's homeless... never really experienced that.

In Vancouver maybe. Check my location I live in Alberta. Last winter we had a deep freeze for a week. -40 weather.
So true, I am spending most of my time right now with people who are new to Van coming from other parts of Canada, it's culture shock to find out what they are used to.
Like, Canada is usually cold? What? I'm having trouble not getting sunburned.

POS Industries
06-19-2010, 02:03 AM
It's quite simple, if you're smart and prepared you do extremely well, if you are a noob and unprepared you do extremely poorly.
I can't see a problem, but that's just local homeless, don't know about a capitalist driven society's homeless... never really experienced that.
If you were smart and prepared, you wouldn't have been homeless in the first place, regardless of your society.

Hanuman
06-19-2010, 02:09 AM
If you were smart and prepared, you wouldn't have been homeless in the first place, regardless of your society.
Why not? Paying for rent is a choice, needing shelter is a weakness.

Fenris
06-19-2010, 02:23 AM
Why not? Paying for rent is a choice, needing shelter is a weakness.

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just this obtuse.

Have you ever heard of a little thing called Maslow's hierarchy of needs? (http://psychology.about.com/od/theoriesofpersonality/a/hierarchyneeds.htm)

One of the most basic needs is shelter.

Just sayin'.

Yrcrazypa
06-19-2010, 02:55 AM
If you're parents were homeless, than there isn't a whole lot you can do to fix that whole situation.

POS Industries
06-19-2010, 10:57 AM
If you're parents were homeless, than there isn't a whole lot you can do to fix that whole situation.
Well, I don't know how they do it in America's hat, but down here if your parents are homeless the state tends to take you away from them and have you live with people who aren't.

bluestarultor
06-19-2010, 12:07 PM
Why not? Paying for rent is a choice, needing shelter is a weakness.

You tell yourself that in places where summer is three months of bad sledding.

Seil
06-19-2010, 12:29 PM
Well, I don't know how they do it in America's hat, but down here if your parents are homeless the state tends to take you away from them and have you live with people who aren't.

I think it's the same here, too. Kids get priority in shelters and the like.

Funka Genocide
06-21-2010, 03:10 PM
I think what we're meant to garner from this thread is that Lev hunts buffalo on the plains with his stone-tipped spears, and shuns our civilized ways of weakness and folly.

Which I mean, sure, sounds appealing in some far-off, self aggrandizing sentiment you only experience when you read Hemingway, but here in the real world taking showers and watching tv is pretty much a given.