Pokemon Umbral Discussion 30: Less and Less About Pokemon Each Day [Archive]

Bard The 5th LW

06-17-2010, 09:43 PM

The pic is nice. ^^ (For those who can't see it, right click and open it in a new tab.)

I'd say that we should focus on wiping her out exclusively, not worry too much about the tanks. If we wipe her out in one turn, then the morale gauge is likely to drop incredibly. That combined with the tanks instant drop in fortitude will likely cause them to flee.

Genre Saviness says that probably won't work with entirely desirable results here.

Most likely scenario says that AB will find some way to spite us. WildFire will rise again the next turn, maybe 2 turns if we're lucky, to pull some 2nd ultra form. If that doesn't happen, it will definitely pull some final attack to torture us while the swarm of tanks assail us. If we do try this, you may want Prosperous Gifts and the Medics at the ready.

If we eliminate all other opposition, then we are likely to have a longer, but more consistent battle.

Not that I know what goes through AB's head. This is just a common theme I've seen throughout games. Things are never easy as they seem. Typically, I support the attack attack attack tactic. I'll go with whatever you guys decide.

Menarker

06-17-2010, 09:59 PM

My new proposal?

Lexhur's ability here...
Devil Drift: 100 RPs. Severe Steel type damage. Knocks foe out of battle, causing them to return next turn has concluded. Great for removing foes for two turns.

We get Matt to steal one of the tanks (preferably the water one to take advantage of rain dance power boost), we get Lexhur to knock that other tank away for two turns and we focus fire on Wildfire. We won't be down on Lexhur's rage much at all, since we'll recoup the exact amount on the next turn, we'll have stolen a tank for offensive measure and removing one of the attackers at the same time, and we can attack full force at Wildfire.

Things like what Rachel does with her time can be ultimately decided by you guys, although I advise she uses Full Restore on Harriette since she'll be inflicted with Plasmaburn. Magnezone can wash off Harriette since he doesn't have STAB so it won't be as great an attacker as Swampert or the other water types.

Or I could switch with Cecilia since she has a water armor and water weapon, which gains double bonus due to STAB and to rain dance. Use her signature tech to make her invincible for 3 turns on top of that.

Your thoughts?

Bard The 5th LW

06-17-2010, 10:11 PM

I like it, but AB has already said that water attacks won't do damage to allies. If you want, you can have Swampert wash the oil off Harliette and Magnezone attack.

Menarker

06-17-2010, 10:18 PM

Well, I'm saying that Magnezone's Surf would be weaker than Swamperts because it doesn't have STAB. Hence why Magnezone should probably be the one washing it off and Swampert attacking... Then again Magnezone does have a much higher Special Attack stat... It probably would have been equal, but a multiplier on top of a multiplier (rain dance on top of STAB) makes me think that Swampert might be better as an attacker.

... and don't you mean AB? You called him BA. :3

Aldurin

06-17-2010, 10:58 PM

I'd like to have an idea what you're talking about, but you need to rehost that image or something.

7434

Put it on photobucket or something.

Bard The 5th LW

06-17-2010, 11:02 PM

... and don't you mean AB? You called him BA. :3

I already fixed it before you corrected me, so shut up! It NEVER HAPPENED!

In truth, I've been trying to type without looking at the keyboard, so typos have gone up recently.

And the link ain't that important. In fact, watch'oo doin' here EvilEarl? I thought we were the ultimate limited social circle (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LimitedSocialCircle) on this site?

Aldurin

06-18-2010, 01:00 AM

In fact, watch'oo doin' here EvilEarl? I thought we were the ultimate limited social circle (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LimitedSocialCircle) on this site?

Window shopping the threads.

Bard The 5th LW

06-18-2010, 01:04 AM

Ok NOW I see it.

It doesn't live up to expectations. Really dissapointed.

And dammit I think Menarker's avatar just blinked at me I need some sleep.

Menarker

06-18-2010, 01:09 AM

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral1.jpg

There. Made a seperate account to handle it.

AB: When/if you find a pic you want to post for the future threads, let me know and I'll upload and give you the link.

Astral Harmony

06-18-2010, 03:27 AM

I'll keep that Rage in mind for next turn, Drac, thank you.

Magnet Crush will disable those tanks.

Unfortunately, Plasmaburn is not cured upon resurrection. It will be cured at the end of battle, though.

Charlotte's pretty much right on the money about Cerulean Wildfire having a 2nd kickass form. Her going down in less than two full salvos of attacks is a little too easy, wouldn't you say?

I've seen a lotta different photos in gelbooru, Men. Give me a good day and I'll rack up a huge list of URLs for ya.

DanteFalcon

06-18-2010, 04:23 AM

Because I finally decided to post and wasn't sure what the plan was I went back and editted in my Porygon-Z appearance and ability into my profile. Since appearance can change things I went with Download. Since Adaptability serves no purpose for Matt currently.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 07:30 AM

Magnet Crush will disable those tanks.

Unfortunately, Plasmaburn is not cured upon resurrection. It will be cured at the end of battle, though.

Charlotte's pretty much right on the money about Cerulean Wildfire having a 2nd kickass form. Her going down in less than two full salvos of attacks is a little too easy, wouldn't you say?

Right, so.

We should save Lexhur's laser for Wildfire's second form, then. I say we go with Rachel's Magnet Crush this turn and have Lexhur use Recoilless Cannons twice. And everyone else concentrates fire on Wildfire.

If at all possible, we could maybe try to use multi-target water attacks to damage Wildfire and push the wall back at them in preparation for her next form.

Geminex

06-18-2010, 08:23 AM

Allrighty then...
If magnet crush disables tanks, then let's just do that. Here's a setup:

Menarker: Magnemite and Swampert both use water moves on Harliette to extinguish her.
Matt: Keep on hyper beamin'. Also, he can use an item, right? If so, use a full restore (I'm sure you brought at least one) on Harliette. I'm hoping that heals plasma burn.
Impact: Switch with Milsha for a round. That should heal Plasma Burn and revive him with 1 health, yes? Milsha to use her Cattle Prod on Wildfire.
Rachel: Not sure, actually. Can she use her Synk-tech for free, or does that take an action? I'm hoping it's free, cause then she could paradigm shift, attack (giving her the necessary rage), then use her technique, and still be able to use a rage rocket on someone.
Moon: Both, Starmie and Fathom use surf on Wildfire and the Wall, and hit each other with their Friendly attack.
Harliette: Repeat what she did last turn. Focused Earthquake, helping hand, Aqua Shot
Wilhelmina: Put two dark rounds into wildfire
Pierce: Thunder from Aria, Hydro Pump from Kingdra
Lexhur: Not sure if two recoilless cannons or a grill gore would be in order...

That should give us a good amount of damage. Almost certainly enough to kill, especially since Wildfire is still at, I'd say, 75% at most.

And grargh. GRARGH. Germany just lost to Serbia in the World cup. That's like Impact getting outsmarted by...
Well, by anyone in our current group, really. Man, I love how modest I am. Doesn't distract me from my shame at my national team, though. Dammit, people, take the initiative! Dynamic play!
Honestly...

Oh, and AB:
Can Plasma Burns be healed by switching out for a turn, or by using a full restore? Or can they at least be degraded to regular burns? Cause I'd be fine with the second one.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 08:34 AM

Man, Germany sucks. You suck.

Anyway, sounds good. Though I hope you realize Impact won't actually be able to give those orders. On account of being on fire and all.

Also, Recoilless Cannons are the way to go with Lexhur. Fighting is likely to be more effective than Dark.

Geminex

06-18-2010, 08:39 AM

You underestimate Impact, my friend. His desire, his dedication to bossing you all around goes far beyond mere unconciousness! Even death cannot stop him from telling you what to do!

He'll probably be all like: "God that hurts. Disable the tanks, heal Harliette. Get me out of the line of fire. Focus Fire on Wildfire. I am going to go sleep now. Bye bye. And remember to watch out for the duck."

Only more pain, and less coherence.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 08:41 AM

He's supposed to be unconscious too.

And, y'know, on fire.

Geminex

06-18-2010, 08:44 AM

Burnt. Not on fire. Difference.

And besides, he's in no fit state to fight. Not necessarily dead to the world. Perhaps at the edge of conciousness.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 08:46 AM

Right, so he's only got like fourth-degree burns all over. That's nothing, right?

Perhaps, you say. But I think it's far more likely that he is, in fact, knocked out.

Remember back at the mansion when Impact was defeated by Phantomere's death clock? Yeah, that kinda deadsies.

Geminex

06-18-2010, 08:54 AM

That's certainly a possibility. And I certainly invite you to do that with Pierce whenever he's out-of-battle. But alas, this is my character. I shall characterize his having-zero-hp-ness however I desire.

And besides, I question "unable to fight" meaning "unconcious" in general. I mean, it makes sense for pokemon, but what about a battle master? What when they get to zero HP? They'd still be able to give their pokemon orders, I think. And no, I don't think that said pokemon should go rogue, that'd be utter BS.

And same for Impact, I think. Unable to fight, yes. But there's nothing that defines his state of conciousness.

So no, Pierce doesn't get to give orders. Honestly, just stop trying.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 09:02 AM

Never!

I'm pretty sure when a Battle Master or Legion Mage or Battle Rogue or whatever is defeated, their pokemon go rogue. Defeated meaning zero HP.

It's happened so far to all the Battle Masters and Legion Mages we've fought, anyway. And remember when Rayleen got bitchslapped to the hospital back at the bank? Her pokemon went rogue. And she was clearly unconscious, probably in critical condition (medically I mean, not in the red like the games).

When a trainer goes down and their pokemon go rogue, the pokemon would still have to work with the formation. That is to say, all six pokemon won't be able to fight at once because that's not going to fit. Like back at the bank, when Registeel took up a spot and the rest of Rayleen's pokemon just sat back. Also, remember when Pierce's pseudo-legendaries force-deployed back at the party? They didn't all just jump in and start beating on Lexhur. There was only one spot open.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that only applies to allies. I wouldn't put it past AB to make it so that when an enemy trainer goes down all their pokemon join in the fight, formation be damned.

Geminex

06-18-2010, 09:10 AM

I'm pretty sure when a Battle Master or Legion Mage or Battle Rogue or whatever is defeated, their pokemon go rogue. Defeated meaning zero HP.
Well, depends how we characterize "defeated". I mean, zero HP, yes. But what does that actually indicate? The only in-game sign is that the individual can no longer fight. It's up to each player to choose what "defeated" means. And the way I see it, "inability to fight" does not equate to "inability to do anything at all". Particuarly since, in-game, knocked out pokemon could do pretty much anything but fight. HM moves worked. Pick-up, the power, worked.
So yeah, what I propose is that:
0 HP for pokemon: Unconcious, dead if rogues
0 HP for humans: Heavily wounded, unable to fight or use items, but able to interact, move, etc...

And yeah. Why the fuck would pokemon go rouge over a defeated battle master? Going rogue is a mechanism designed to protect a defenseless trainer. Neither battle masters nor legion mages are defenseless. They enter battle on their own volition.
I mean, if the battle master is at 0 HP and gets attacked again, then yes. If it's a defenseless trainer, yes. But really, it's not plausible any other way. And stop trying to argue that it should be, because I really do not care about should-be unless you can enforce it. Same as with that highly regrettable PM.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 09:16 AM

I'm pretty sure unable to fight means defenseless. Especially because it also implies being unable to move. Or at least, anyone we've seen defeated so far hasn't just gotten up and limped away.

I mean, I'm sure they could if it was dramatically appropriate for them to do so. Like "WE'LL MEET AGAIN" kind of way. But that's pretty much only reserved for enemies.

Hey, that "highly regrettable" PM was actually a lot of fun.

And anyway, it's pretty much up to AB to enforce it. Meaning it is very much so possible.

Geminex

06-18-2010, 09:22 AM

Yes, they're defenseless when they're unable to fight. But pokemon don't go rogue when their masters are defenseless, they go rogue when their defenseless masters get attacked.

And I very much doubt AB will tell me how to roleplay Impact's unable-to-fight-ness. But hey, you can always try! Perhaps you will be sucessful! And then perhaps I will spout marshmallow wings and lead the pudding people to find the candy-cane promised land!

Perhaps it may have been fun. I am still uncertain. Let me re-read it.
...
wow
...
I'd insult your intelligence, but words fail me. Hey, Bard, cover for me?

Menarker

06-18-2010, 10:04 AM

Can I just mention one thing wrong with the plan?

Milsha is PIERCE'S enforcer, not Impact's. Kurika is the one that would end up being switched out.

Also, I didn't know that we could have Lexhur attack more than once, provided that he had enough rage. In that case, I opt we not attack this turn, In case even more reinforcement comes. Then we can use Grill Gore on one target that we can't or don't want to deal with, and knock it away for two turns, while using the Laser on the same turn.

>_> Can we use Helping Hand on Lexhur's Laser?

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 10:53 AM

Yes, they're defenseless when they're unable to fight. But pokemon don't go rogue when their masters are defenseless, they go rogue when their defenseless masters get attacked.

Buh.

What does this mean? I think you're saying that pokemon go rogue when their masters are attacked after they've been knocked out, but that's retarded.

I mean, "HEY GUYS THAT DUDES ATTACKING RAYLEEN LET'S GO PROTE- Oh wait, he already drove a sword through her chest nevermind". The way it would plausibly work is if the second the trainer is knocked out, the pokemon go rogue to defend them. Not when the bad guys decide to shoot them in the head because by then it's far too late.

And I very much doubt AB will tell me how to roleplay Impact's unable-to-fight-ness. But hey, you can always try! Perhaps you will be sucessful! And then perhaps I will spout marshmallow wings and lead the pudding people to find the candy-cane promised land!

Not so much tell you how to do it. More like set some limits. As in "No moving, no talking. Feel free to have out-of-body experiences". Or something like that. I'm not AB.

Milsha is PIERCE'S enforcer, not Impact's. Kurika is the one that would end up being switched out.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. In restrospect, yeah, makes sense that we would only be able to switch out with our assigned Enforcers. Otherwise, what's the point of assigning them to a specific PC in the first place?

Also, I didn't know that we could have Lexhur attack more than once, provided that he had enough rage. In that case, I opt we not attack this turn, In case even more reinforcement comes. Then we can use Grill Gore on one target that we can't or don't want to deal with, and knock it away for two turns, while using the Laser on the same turn.

Um. Lexhur's Rage was at 400 last turn. When this turn starts, it'll be at 500. If we have him spend 100 RPs this turn, he'll still be at 500 RPs at the start of next turn.

Bard The 5th LW

06-18-2010, 12:23 PM

Its not a big deal guys, just chill out. Like, logically, I think Impact should be out-cold, but if Gem insist on him giving orders than I guess he can. Although I imagine that they would be so strained and struggled that we wouldn't hear them.
I'd insult your intelligence, but words fail me. Hey, Bard, cover for me?

Ummm, Uhhh.... Er.....

Boy, did you eat a bowl of stupid for breakfast?

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 12:26 PM

Although I imagine that they would be so strained and struggled that we wouldn't hear them.

AUGH Goddamnit I am deeply ashamed that I didn't think of this before Christ dammit.

Nothing could possibly make me feel worse than I do right now.

Boy, did you eat a bowl of stupid for breakfast?

... Dude way to kick a guy while he's down.

Menarker

06-18-2010, 12:26 PM

Ummm, Uhhh.... Er.....

Boy, did you eat a bowl of stupid for breakfast?

>_> Did you direct that toward Drac or Gem? =P

Bard The 5th LW

06-18-2010, 12:36 PM

Its really open to interpretation. I imagined that Gem would think it towards Drac and vice-versa.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 12:38 PM

Well, think it, sure. But I'm much nice enough not to insult people explicitly like that.

Except you, Menarker. You're a silly doodle.

Bard The 5th LW

06-18-2010, 12:42 PM

Menarker just got burned worse than Mollesk.

Astral Harmony

06-18-2010, 02:35 PM

Ummm, Uhhh.... Er.....

Boy, did you eat a bowl of stupid for breakfast?

Wow...I nearly fell out of the chair from that. *writes that one down*

Congratulations, Bard. You just edited about 40% of all dialogue in Pokemon Umbral.

Burkmont: "This failure to accomplish your mission is uncharacteristic of you, Major Grant. Care to enlighten me as to why?"
Grant: "My apologies, General. I must have eaten a bowl of stupid for breakfast."
Burkmont: "Whatever. Get back out there and take down PATCA for good, you silly doodle!"

- Pokemon Umbral: Sometimes the PCs Write the Best Dialogue

Here's how we'll work it for Cerulean Oil and Plasma Burn:

You'll need to do two washings for a Slayer or Pokebrid and one washing for any Pokemon to clear Oil. The remove Plasmaburn, you'll need to cure burn status twice. It doesn't downgrade to a burn on a first status cure, it stays there until you cure it twice and then goes away completely. Regardless, Oil and Plasmaburn do not go away upon being switched out or defeated and then revived.

No, you can't use Helping Hand on Lexhur's Laser. Nor should you even need to. Lexhur's Laser packs enough pwnage on its own.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 05:47 PM

AB, this has been asked before and I don't remember you answering, but what does it mean when it says "Almighty type damage" in Lexhur's laser description?

To play around with Geminex's plan in light of AB's revelations:

Menarker: Magnezone and Swampert both use water moves on Harliette to extinguish her.
Matt: Keep on hyper beamin'. Also, he can use an item, right? If so, use a full restore (I'm sure you brought at least one) on Harliette.
Impact: Switch with Kurika for a round. Kurika to use her Nerve Strike on Wildfire. If we keep Impact out for two turns, will that heal Plasmaburn? Or if we only keep him out for one turn, does that count as one heal out of two to clear Plasmaburn?
Charlotte: Pike to use Thunder on Wildfire, use a Rage Rocket on Rachel (I'm assuming Charlotte would have one, only problem is convincing her to help someone else). Trainer attack on Wildfire.
Rachel: Pretty sure Synch-techs take an action, so... Full Restore on Harliette to cure Plasmaburn, then Pokeshift to Magnezone, Paradigm Shift and Magnet Crush. Harliette should be rendered immune to Plasmaburn for three turns thanks to Rachel's ability, right?
Moon: Both, Starmie and Fathom use surf on Wildfire and the Wall, and hit each other with their Friendly attack.
Harliette: Repeat what she did last turn. Focused Earthquake, helping hand, Aqua Shot
Wilhelmina: Put two dark rounds into wildfire
Pierce: Thunder from Aria, Hydro Pump from Kingdra
Lexhur: Recoilless Cannons twice.

That's so we can get to use Magnet Crush this turn. Impact would have to stay down, of course, but then he might be more valuable than Harliette, leadership not withstanding. We could have Rachel revive him right away, then he and Matthias can use Full Restores on him.

Or, if we don't have Rachel use Magnet Crush this turn, we could heal Impact and Harliette right away.

Geminex

06-18-2010, 06:31 PM

What does this mean? I think you're saying that pokemon go rogue when their masters are attacked after they've been knocked out, but that's retarded.
Hey...
Hey, Drac.
Remember when going rogue was first mentioned? Lemme refresh your memory. In the very, very early days, before Impact intended any world domination at all, I asked a little question. Something along the lines of "what happens if I attack trainers?". AB's answer was "Their pokemon go rogue".
Going rogue is designed to make sure people don't cheat by attacking trainers instead of their pokemon. It's less of a "pokemon will prevent your attacks" and more of a "if you kill them, their pokemon will kill you so hard, you wouldn't believe it".

So yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. In mission 1, Rayleen got wounded badly enough that she lost control over her pokemon. That's what "going rogue" means, you're aware of that, right? The pokemon's master is sufficiently badly wounded that they lose control over their pokemon, they're no longer their master.
And I don't think "really close to death" can come from just being reduced to zero HP.

Anyway, this discussion is stupid. Just like you. Let's ask AB.

Hey, AB, how is going Rogue handeled? Under what circumstances will trainers' pokemon go rogue? Will battle masters' (and other classes') pokemon go rogue as soon as their masters reach zero HP, if their masters are actively fighting?
And how should we treat being at zero HP? Utter unconciousness? Or can our characters at least still talk, move slightly, edge-of-conciousness kind of thing?

Um. Lexhur's Rage was at 400 last turn. When this turn starts, it'll be at 500. If we have him spend 100 RPs this turn, he'll still be at 500 RPs at the start of next turn.
Nope. I calculated, unless he started battle with 200, he'll be at 400 at the start of this turn.

Oh, and Bard is now Official Insulter of my empire.

Dracorion

06-18-2010, 07:38 PM

And I don't think "really close to death" can come from just being reduced to zero HP.

So does that mean we haven't killed anyone ever?

Because I don't think that's quite appropriate. Not that Pierce would mind, but I'm pretty sure Impact and Charlotte and maybe Matthias would've killed their KOs so far.

Because, see, if you can't bring someone close to death by reducing them to zero HP then you certainly haven't killed them. Unless you're suggesting that "zero HP =/= near-death" only applies to us good guys, which is ridiculous. It's simply not plausible that we can get by only seriously wounded but otherwise very much alive while leaving only the bloodied, burned and beaten corpses of our enemies? These people are supposed to be trying their damnedest to kill us, even moreso than we are them.

So for everyone, zero HP should mean either dead or really close to it.

Anyway, this discussion is stupid. Just like you.

No, you!!!

Yeah, I can't really let this go without getting in the last word.

Hey, AB, how is going Rogue handeled? Under what circumstances will trainers' pokemon go rogue? Will battle masters' (and other classes') pokemon go rogue as soon as their masters reach zero HP, if their masters are actively fighting?
And how should we treat being at zero HP? Utter unconciousness? Or can our characters at least still talk, move slightly, edge-of-conciousness kind of thing?

See, you're making that last part sound like a request, rather than a question. Meaning AB will be inclined to put it the way you want it to be.

Nope. I calculated, unless he started battle with 200, he'll be at 400 at the start of this turn.

Ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Menarker

06-19-2010, 12:47 AM

The only reason why I felt burned by Drac's comment "You're a silly doodle" is because one of my closest female online friends frequently used that term as a term of endearment toward me. Hearing that phrase from Drac and from Burkmont in the above omake makes me FLINCH!

As for the plan...
I got no issues whatsoever with Renny's portion of it. Gladly wash the oil off Harriette. (Wet T-shirt, oh my! =P)
Seems odd that we'd have Kurika attempt a "Nerve Strike" on Cerulean (who probably doesn't have nerves, or ones like humans at least). Ah well.
Thirdly, Harliette has 100 rage now. Don't suppose we should have her use her Desperado attack or something? Isn't there anything she could use her 100 rage for effectively?

Other than that, if all the assumptions that were made in the plan is accurate, I'd vote for it.

Geminex

06-19-2010, 01:06 AM

Harliette had 100 rage last turn as well. I'm having her nidoqueen use a focused earthquake every turn, just to use some of it, until there's more enemies on-field, for her to use Desparado. That works, no?

Menarker

06-19-2010, 01:18 AM

Ah. I figured that we were taking advantage of rain dance and STAB bonus due to water armor to boost the power of her aqua shot to focus the damage on Wildfire to defeat her regeneration (Need to force enough damage in one turn).

Otherwise, I would advise using the ability now, since the tanks are Large sized (count as two slots) and thus there are three outcomes since there are 4 shots.
A: Both tanks get hit twice. Wildfire is unaffected.
B: Water Tank get hit twice while the Fire Tank gets hit once and Wildfire get hit once.
C: Fire Tank get hit twice while the Water Tank gets hit once and Wildfire get hit once.

Still. Focused Earthquake is good idea.

Since we're using Magnet Crush on the tanks though to hold them down, there is little reason to have Harriette use a damage spread attack at the moment though since we're trying to do enough damage to Wildfire in one shot.

Astral Harmony

06-19-2010, 03:14 AM

Almighty is the new word for no-type. It comes from the Shin Megami Tensei series, where Almighty has no resistances, no strengths, no status, and can't be guarded by any kind of special defense.

Plasmaburn should heal automatically on the third turn switched out.

Yes, Harliette will be protected from negative status due to Rachel's ability.

Rogue Pokemon fight based on a pathetic little strategy: 100% buff on the first turn, 50% on second turn, attack moves on third turn or on first if no buff moves are available. When suffering from status effects or low HP, they will use moves to cure and heal up. If those don't exist, they simply fight until death. A Pokemon that is already defeated before going rogue will simply die at the end of the turn in which it does go rogue, no moves made or nothin'.

You should know the circumstances of Pokemon going rogue. If I say that trainer is defeated, doesn't matter who they are, those Pokemon go rogue.

Defeated characters aren't necessarily dead, they just can't continue the fight. This is usually do to severe weakness, exhausted muscles, too much blood loss, wounds that need serious medical attention, unconsciousness, being a douchebag, having an allergy to fanservice (I'm keeping the fanservice regardless), chronic bowel voiding, psychological trauma, low resale value on your home, and erectile dysfunction.

Geminex

06-19-2010, 04:02 AM

If I say that trainer is defeated, doesn't matter who they are, those Pokemon go rogue.
But why on earth would this apply to battle masters, or legion mages? They enter combat out of their own free will! Why would their pokemon get enraged at their master's demise when their master was stupid enough to fight?
I'm imagining a trainer holding up a bank by going "Don't move, or I'll kill myself!", and he's sucessful, cause nobody wants to risk his pokemon going Rogue.

What I'd propose is:
>0 HP: Able to fight, not too badly wounded
0 HP: Defenseless and badly wounded. Unable to fight, use techniques, or items, but still able to move and communicate. Concious, but dying slowly, and will die if trainer dies (only for pokemon), if they are attacked directly, or if party loses battle. Trainers are always considered to be at zero HP (though they can trainer attack regardless)
Dead: Unable to be revived using field items, still saveable if receiving medical treatment. If trainers (or any pokemon-using classes) enter this state, their pokemon go rogue.

As for the second bit, cool. I assme Impact can talk, so he'll be giving orders.

Plasmaburn should heal automatically on the third turn switched out.
Also, cool. But I don't intend to keep him switched out for three turns, I intend to keep him switched out for one turn, and then use a full restore. Will that work?

And Drac, dammit, next time tell me when you're editing my plan into a post of yours. Especially if my plan is not the same as it once was.

Menarker

06-19-2010, 08:44 AM

Almighty is the new word for no-type. It comes from the Shin Megami Tensei series, where Almighty has no resistances, no strengths, no status, and can't be guarded by any kind of special defense.

Cool. So, my proposed invented technique "Valiant Rush" is Almighty Typed then. ^^

But why on earth would this apply to battle masters, or legion mages? They enter combat out of their own free will! Why would their pokemon get enraged at their master's demise when their master was stupid enough to fight?
I'm imagining a trainer holding up a bank by going "Don't move, or I'll kill myself!", and he's sucessful, cause nobody wants to risk his pokemon going Rogue.

Because just because someone fights doesn't mean they are stupid. Otherwise, the entire group of PATCA is a pack of morons, with slayers being the biggest morons for directly fighting in combat. The entire notion revolves around comradery. The pokemons defend the knocked out trainer so the situation doesn't get any worse when the trainers are unable to defend themselves/flee under their own power. It can be assumed that Battle Masters have practiced and demostrated their skill enough to their pokemons to be trusted not to be suicidal douchebags and be worthy of protecting.

You're just bitter because no pokemon would wanna protect you without being given orders. :3

Geminex

06-19-2010, 08:50 AM

Yes. But by entering combat they conciously risk getting injured.
They aren't stupid for fighting. But I understand that pokemon go rogue because
a) their trainers are too weak to control them any longer
b) they're enraged at their trainer getting killed

While a) is likely to still happen in that situation, it's unjustified for pokemon to get enraged at their trainers getting badly hurt when the trainers willingly enter a situation in which they can get badly hurt.

And that's all ignoring the fact that going Rogue wasn't introduced to make Battle Masters or Legion Mages stronger, it was introduced so I don't have Impact mow down all enemy trainers with the HV rifle as soon as the battle began. Sure, let's use it where it fits the plot, but I don't think it should become a frequently-used mechanic.

Menarker

06-19-2010, 08:58 AM

Well, pokemons aren't just beasts. Some of the more clever and intelligent ones may have motives or agendas. Assuming they know why a trainer fights (The pokemon knows their trainer is fighting crime or that the foes they are fighting is threatening the pokemon world?) their motivation to defend their trainer may be a last ditch motive to ensure they got someone who can lead them. Friendship is likely to be the highest motivation for a pokemon to defend their trainer, but given the RP's plotline, a pokemon might be motivated for grander ideals if they felt their trainer was the best/reliable way to get there.

The only way I can see it being abused is if one of the trainers became a pokebrid and only using moves that knock them out of combat like Explosion or Healing Wish, or by being batshit insane and throwing themselves in combat without trying to defend themselves (Basically trying to get knocked out for the sake of being knocked out).

Which in that case, AB might just have them all jump out of the pokeballs and go rogue, but they all instantly decide to grab coffee and be the next group of pokegeddons instead of saving their slavedriver.

Otherwise, it's purely defensive and rather unexploitable mechanic since a foe who knows about the rules of pokemons going rogue is unlikely to target a trainer directly with moves meant to knock them out, as opposed to using status moves, unless they were super powerful and assured of their victory. Of course, this can't be relied on as there might be foes unaware of this fact who are strong enough not to care and they might target a trainer who attacks them, not knowing this rule. (Maybe Dinner? She's not from the pokemon world after all.)

Geminex

06-19-2010, 09:09 AM

I'm not saying it's a problem with trianers.

But with dual classes? It practically makes a trainer dual class invincible until their pokemon are dead. Look, a Pokebrid/Slayer is a high-priority target. Higher so than just pokemon, right? So enemies would prefer to attack them over their pokemon.

But if their pokemon go rogue if they just reach 0 HP (which, I believe, AB is saying), Battle Master/Legion Mages can just hide behind their pokemon, trust their enemies not to attack them despite being a high-priority target. It's simple, really, and the way things are, it's going to be abused as a matter of course once we get that far.

Not to mention all the other stuff that could happen. I mean, what motivation does a legion mage have to refrain from using belly drum? None! Worst-case scenario, they get a huge attack boost, worst-case scenario the enemy's attacks knock them out, and all six of their pokemon go rogue.

That's why I want to instate the system whereby going-rogue only happens when a zero-hp pokebrid or slayer gets attacked, or if a trainer gets attacked directly. It's a gimmick that was used to prevent me from cheating. It shouldn't be used to help you cheat, it's not like you need the help.

Menarker

06-19-2010, 09:17 AM

EXCUSE ME! I don't cheat. I work the system, but it's all legit stuff, and if it would be homebrew, I ask AB and get it approved before I put it in action.

If you want cheating, talk to Drac and how he wanted to hide Lexhur's true rage total from AB. And several other times when I pointed out a detail, only for him to say "Shusssh, AB doesn't need to know that, you fool!"

And yes, the pokebrid example was what I brought up, but you elaborated in more detail. We're on the same page, although with different perspectives. :3

I imagine AB will come up with something to deal with it once dual-classing becomes available and not a moment sooner. He doesn't need the headache now. :3

Also? It didn't stop Charlotte from shooting Moon. You just gotta want trouble bad enough. =P

Geminex

06-19-2010, 09:22 AM

Oh come on. Two words: Mollesk's stats. Min-maxed as all hell. And yes, I do regard min-maxing as cheating.

I don't take Drac seriously when he does that sort of stuff, mostly because nothing he attempts works out, ever.

And... so does that mean you agree with me on that matter? That trainers/combat classes getting protected by the mere existence of their pokemon is a bad idea? If so, wow. I was thinking this was gonna be another long slog.

Menarker

06-19-2010, 09:29 AM

Oh please. Shuckles stats were mostly like that to start with. Its dump stats were super low and its good stats super high. I made its other defensive stat (HP) super high (although not the highest) and one attack stat average compared to other high level attackers. Defense is useful, but it doesn't win battles by itself. There is no timer like in Street Fighter where you can block block dodge, one hit on foe, block, dodge dodge, block, Timer, WIN.

I don't think it's a bad idea, but I certainly understand and won't likely won't object to AB coming up with some way to regulate it, which I figured he would once it gets to the point where it would matter.

Geminex

06-19-2010, 09:33 AM

I don't think it's a bad idea, but I certainly understand and won't likely won't object to AB coming up with some way to regulate it, which I figured he would once it gets to the point where it would matter.
Considering that we're using both, Legion Mages and Battle Masters, my estimation is that it started mattering two missions ago. So I can haz regulation plz?

And I'd discuss Mollesk further, but I'm tired. Bye, all.

Dracorion

06-19-2010, 11:15 AM

Defense is useful, but it doesn't win battles by itself.

I don't- you- but- wha-

...

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/eckscizor/Lets%20Play%20Emerald%20001/RAGELevel50.jpg

HRRRRRRRGGGHHAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG GGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Anyway. On Legion Mages and Battle Masters:

First things first: can I ask why you didn't bring this up two missions ago, Gem? Surely one such as smart as you could see the implications at the time.

Your regulation idea would work, sure, but I kinda figured since invincibility applies to both enemies and allies it balances itself out. I mean, sure, battles could potentially drag on longer because we can't kill enemy Battle Masters and Legion Mages right away. But if a battle seems like it'll be over quickly AB just adds some enemy reinforcements and if it seems like it's dragging on forever he does something like have Kirie show up, go Super Saiyan and one-hit KO a boss. So what you're proposing wouldn't be a necessary change.

Of course, if you're butthurt because you're never going to have invincibility and the rest of us will, well, sucks to be you. Try to come up with a nicer character next time!

Alternatively, you could have Impact visibly carry pokemon around but refuse to use them. That way, you can still be the purist while having invincibility.

And anyway, remember the battle with Pokegeddon just now? We put Regina to sleep. We could incapacitate trainers like that (sleep, freeze, flinch, removing them from battle) instead of actually knocking them out and then we don't have to worry about the pokemon going rogue.

Sure, it's situational you'll say, but when are we ever not going to be in a capacity to put an enemy to sleep or flinch them? We have Matthias, and Menarker's whole Air Slash combo thing with Togekiss and Shaymin. And if Bard gives Revenard an all-freeze move (psst, Bard, you should do this), we can cover ice too. Otherwise, there's always Garus.

The only enemies we're ever going to face that will be immune to freeze and sleep and flinching and being removed from battle are bosses, and those usually stay alive long enough that we can take out most of their pokemon at which point going rogue doesn't really matter anymore.

Astral Harmony

06-19-2010, 01:01 PM

I'm starting to hate Gem. Everytime he speaks of balance, I just wanna go and call him a whaaaaaambulance. Is he really going to be a challenging villainn the sequel?

I'll come up with a regulation when I feel it's needed. Hell, maybe I'll have one thought up during duty today.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go get ready for duty by playing Split/Second. Giggity.

Dracorion

06-19-2010, 01:12 PM

I'm starting to hate Gem. Everytime he speaks of balance, I just wanna go and call him a whaaaaaambulance. Is he really going to be a challenging villain in the sequel?

Ha!

Balls no. He'll be that one annoying recurring boss. At worst, he'll be a minor nuisance that dies two missions in.

I'm sure he'll say something threatening in response to this, of course. But really, if he knew how to conquer the world then he would be out there doing it instead of writing posts about it.

Astral Harmony

06-19-2010, 01:45 PM

He won't type anything threatening. He'll just sic his Official Insulter on us.

Charlotte: *clears throat* "Boy, did you eat a big heaping bowl of stupid for breakfast?"

I haven't seen a more effective means of destroying foes since Composite Bruce Lee/Chuck Norris.

Anyways, I'm off to work. If you don't hear from me in a month, send Link.

Dracorion

06-19-2010, 02:22 PM

If by "send Link" you mean "usurp control of the RP", sure.

Bard The 5th LW

06-19-2010, 04:12 PM

Why would the pokemon help their masters you ask Gem? The people whom they consider their masters and friends? Who take care of them? Who are hurt? I wonder why? Even if they weren't friends with there trainer, they'd probably have some reason. Doesn't matter if the trainer could fight or not. Here is how it would go if Charlotte's pokemon went rogue.

Buck: He'd stay and fight. Good dog, best friend!

Sol-leks: He'd stay and fight, mostly becasue he just wants to fight. Charlotte may have lost, but Hell if he will.

Pike: Who cares about Pike? No one. He'd most likely just conform with Sol-leks and Buck. Anyways, he was pretty well tamed by the guy who owned him previously, so loyalty was just instilled from day one.

Hammond: He has no idea what's going on. He'd likely lash out in confusion and break stuff. Best just stay away.

Spitz: Actually, if he saw a good opening, he'd likely run. Freedom at last. Who knows, Sol-leks or Buck may hold him back and make him fight.

Dracorion

06-19-2010, 04:51 PM

You know, I totally forgot to rail on Geminex for that part.

But yeah, Bard said it. Pokemon stay and fight for their masters, even if their masters are stupid enough to put themselves in danger in the first place, for several reasons. Comraderie is usually the most prominent reason, I think.

Imagine if you will that there's a war going on. Joe and Jim are best friends and soldiers for their country. Suddenly, Jim takes a bullet to the leg! Jim is bleeding out right there on the battlefied. You think Joe is going to be thinking "nah, the idiot put himself in danger in the first place, I'll just leave him there"? Fuck that shit, Joe is going to get Jim to safety. Or if Jim died, Joe would be pretty pissed at the enemies.

Of course, PATCA isn't military. So imagine instead that Joe and Jim are police officers.

Menarker

06-19-2010, 05:52 PM

But... But... I was the one who said all that stuff about comraderie being only one of the reasons that pokemons fight for their masters in the first place!

Ah well.

Is the plan official now or are there any details we're missing?

Geminex

06-19-2010, 07:23 PM

And I'm not saying that pokemon shouldn't defend their masters. I am saying that a battle master being defeated in combat shouldn't be sufficient motivation for them to go rogue. I'm trying to achieve this, in turn, by quite simply simply changing the definition of "defeated". And what the hell is the problem with that? Is it so very illogical? What is so very, very revolutionary about my idea to change it that you must protest with such vehemence?

But very well...

I do apologize for not living up to your expectations. I had assumed you'd prefer it if I concerned myself with balancing, rather than focusing on ways to screw you, your characters and this RP over. But, as I said, very well. Let us see where else I could employ my mind to best effect.

Bard The 5th LW

06-19-2010, 07:36 PM

No, there master being in danger, and unable to protect himself, is sufficient means for them to go rogue. They sort of like him/her. They don't want him/her to die. So far, the definition of defeated means unable to move or battle. This means they are incredibly easy to kill if they haven't been killed already. Going rogue (not associated with the book by Sarah Palin in any way) is the fail safe to keep them alive. If they are dead, then the pokemon get revenge.

Going Rogue does help balance it for the most part. It help balance things for enemy trainers. Sure I got away with shooting Moon on the first mission, but that won't happen often. It may be unfair for PCs, but do you think it would be fair if we could just kill/incapacitate every enemy trainer we come across? If you're angry about it, have Impact carry Latios for such a fail-safe.

I'm sorry, but I just don't quite see why you see so against that part of the system. Mission 1 established what a defeat was when Rayleen was defeated. She was incapacitated and her Pokemon went rogue.

I have no problem with balancing Gem, maybe we can come to an agreement, but your reasoning so far just seems rather flimsy.

Geminex

06-19-2010, 07:54 PM

No, there master being in danger, and unable to protect himself, is sufficient means for them to go rogue.
Why? Trainers are constantly "unable to protect themselves". Their pokemon should be constantly going rogue.
And if a zero-HP battle master retreats from battle (i.e. stops fighting) they're no longer in danger, since enemies are unlikely to attack them.

And finally, once again: Game-related, making pokemon go rogue once their master is defeated will just encourange battle masters and legion mages to play incredibly offensively personally, while using their pokemon incredibly defensively.
Seriously, how does going rogue impart balance? I'm not saying it should be thrown out altogether. I'm just saying that it is retarded for cataclysmic consequences to occur if a combat class is defeated.

Dracorion

06-19-2010, 08:20 PM

I do apologize for not living up to your expectations. I had assumed you'd prefer it if I concerned myself with balancing, rather than focusing on ways to screw you, your characters and this RP over. But, as I said, very well. Let us see where else I could employ my mind to best effect.

You're not forgiven.

But I'd like to propose a deal: if you stop arguing about pokemon going rogue, then whenever Impact gets knocked out Jeanette Ricewood's satellite will nuke the enemies every turn.

Menarker

06-19-2010, 09:19 PM

Why? Trainers are constantly "unable to protect themselves". Their pokemon should be constantly going rogue.
And if a zero-HP battle master retreats from battle (i.e. stops fighting) they're no longer in danger, since enemies are unlikely to attack them.

Not everyone treats being at 0 hitpoints the same way as you would (your character supposably still being conscious and able to give orders). We all expected you to be knocked out cold, not in any shape to retreat, never mind bark orders.

Heck, why does a trainer "black/white out" if they lose all their pokemon in-game even though they don't actually suffer direct injury? Seemed odd that any trainer that would defeat all of your pokemons were allowed to attack the trainer and knock you out cold. (Unless the PC is such a wussie that defeat makes him/her faint).

Also, in this setting, if someone was to go down to 0 hitpoints and still conscious, you could damn well be assured that an enemy's response to them running away is not "Oh, he's fleeing for his worthless life. I'll let him go." You think the Ruin generals (Most of them aren't like Lexhur), Faynoc or Burkmont are that nice? Especially with the existance of items that restore your health to full such as Max Revive and Full Restore, where they would come back to haunt the foe, fully recharged? The outcome of a foe reducing you down to 0 hitpoints is going to be more like a post-mortum one-liner followed by a coup-de-grace unless something stops them.

My two cents.

Geminex

06-19-2010, 10:45 PM

Ok, even assuming you'd be right in that respect, pokemon don't go rogue to protect their masters. They only go rogue to avenge them. Meaning, their masters have to be dead, or really fucking close to it. Like Rayleen was. So unless you guys want to have a PC need a month-long hospital stay every time they get to 0 HP, I don't think 0 HP should mean really close to death, and thus, I don't think that 0 HP should mean "pokemon go rogue".

But screw this, I'm done. I have insults to avenge.

Dracorion

06-19-2010, 11:02 PM

Who knows? Maybe you'll actually avenge them this time.

Geminex

06-19-2010, 11:29 PM

Considering that most of them were directed at my potency as a villain, I'm thinking up some villain-licious ways to make you regret said insults. It is highly enjoyable.

Bard The 5th LW

06-19-2010, 11:40 PM

Perhaps you can halt the production of all pokeballs, and demand a 'safety' feature in them that is government mandated. The alterations then make it impossible for pokemon to go rogue.

This assumes Impact gets into some actual government authority.

Geminex

06-19-2010, 11:53 PM

I was thinking I'd just design some really, really evil encounters for you. The "make pokeball creation illegal" thing was sort of a given already.

Dracorion

06-20-2010, 12:14 AM

Oh come on.

Anyone can do evil encounters.

I mean, Ginnungagap? Man, you're going to be crying to your mothers before it's over.

Geminex

06-20-2010, 01:46 AM

That's true. But I'll already be going full-blast in terms of "evil manipulation", so all I can do is suggest harder encounters to AB. And Ginnungagap (I can actually spell it!)... You mean the dark void at the beginning of time, or the ambient rock band?

And also, your creations do not scare me. It is better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

Dracorion

06-20-2010, 09:39 AM

Yep. AB definitely never gets to name anything again.

I mean, they're supposed to be thematic! The gap between what Ginnungagap in this RP is and what the name means is so wide, hell, you might even be able to fit all of Geminex's ego in it.

But whatever, I think I can salvage it a little bit. But it won't be a dark void at the beginning of the universe.

Or maybe I can come up with another name! Yeah, that'll happen.

Regardless, Ginnungagap and everything else I'm throwing at you in the same fight should raise some hell.

Bard The 5th LW

06-20-2010, 04:39 PM

Wait, did the fire-spin effect of Future shock take effect this turn? And on that subject, would it be alright if I buffed future shock a bit due to the lessened radius of the attack?

Dracorion

06-20-2010, 04:53 PM

I think we'd forgotten all about Future Shock.

And didn't we agree to buff the Fire Spin damage up to 30? That's double.

Is Future Shock at turn 2 or 3?

Bard The 5th LW

06-20-2010, 04:55 PM

Turn 2 I believe

Menarker

06-20-2010, 06:17 PM

No. Turn 3.

Turn 1 was used on the Pokegeddon, and they all retreated due to Major Grant's orders after performing a turn of collateral mass destruction.
Turn 2 was the buffing turn which is also when Wildfire appeared during the enemy phase.
Turn 3 was the most recent turn.

Anyhow, I'm going to post, assuming that Renny is going to have Swampert and Magnezone wash Hariette off, since I don't think anyone will object to that.

Dracorion

06-20-2010, 06:29 PM

I'm going to wait for Gem to post. Then I'm going to let Bard be the first to promptly have Charlotte fail to hear Impact's orders. And then I'll post.

Bard The 5th LW

06-20-2010, 06:37 PM

Charlotte isn't even going to be listening for that shit. She wants Wild Fire dead and she wants to be the one who does it. If you try to give her any other orders, she will respond with a fuck you and do what she wants.

And I still think it is turn 2. Didn't AB decided to hold back and have the initial attack take effect when WildFire appeared? Because she never actually stated that it hurt the Pokegeddon. Nor that it started on that turn.

Menarker

06-20-2010, 06:47 PM

I think AB apologized already about having forgot all about it.
Not that it bugs me either way.

Anyhow, did my post. Short, not terribly eventful, but it's a post.

Geminex

06-20-2010, 07:09 PM

I'm going to wait for Gem to post. Then I'm going to let Bard be the first to promptly have Charlotte fail to hear Impact's orders. And then I'll post.

Hahahahahaha oh wow

Menarker

06-20-2010, 07:10 PM

Bard... at the end of your last post, didn't you mean wall of fire, not wall of water?

Bard The 5th LW

06-20-2010, 07:11 PM

yeah i'll get on that.

Dracorion

06-20-2010, 07:26 PM

Hahahahahaha oh wow

Oh, hurry up and post, you.

And remember that not only is Impact defeated, he's badly burnt.

Geminex

06-20-2010, 08:08 PM

Very well, gimme half an hour. Gotta do some stuff first.

Edit:
And you are aware that if you hadn't been so demanding and insubordinate about it, Pierce would now be giving orders, right?

Dracorion

06-20-2010, 08:52 PM

Phhbbbtt. It's like you're trying to make me regret being insubordinate. Man, I'd never do that, insubordination is awesome.

Also, what I said was:

Man, Germany sucks. You suck.

Anyway, sounds good. Though I hope you realize Impact won't actually be able to give those orders. On account of being on fire and all.

To which you responded:

You underestimate Impact, my friend. His desire, his dedication to bossing you all around goes far beyond mere unconciousness! Even death cannot stop him from telling you what to do!

He'll probably be all like: "God that hurts. Disable the tanks, heal Harliette. Get me out of the line of fire. Focus Fire on Wildfire. I am going to go sleep now. Bye bye. And remember to watch out for the duck."

Only more pain, and less coherence.

Which means that upon my initial comment you already decided to have Impact give orders.

And my comment wasn't all that bad. I made fun of Germany, which is probably what set you off. And I was a little insubordinate and not at all demanding.

Astral Harmony

06-21-2010, 03:39 AM

I'm back from an easy duty day and a rough after duty day.

I seriously think we need to curb the insults we're handing out to Gem. I think he's starting to take this all far too seriously. Just remember, Gem, that Pokemon Umbral is all about fun and games. It's jokes, y'dig?

And so what if there's a huge gap between Ginnungagap's name and what it actually is? It's a badass name! Certainly a lot better than Aria.

I'd like to post tonight but sadly, we were stuck at work until much later and some other bullshit has piled up on me. I may do some work on it to set it up nicely, but I won't be able to finish it and I want to give Menarker some pictures for the next threads.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 03:59 AM

I'm sorry, my sense of humor was momentarily disfuctional.

Also, NO PITY. DON'T ANYONE DARE PITY ME.
If you cease insulting me (and you should), it should be out of self-preservation, not sensitivity. If anyone has any inclination to be nice to me, I'm not doing my job.

And cool, I have yet to post as well. I'm working on it, though.

Astral Harmony

06-21-2010, 04:21 AM

Geminex

06-21-2010, 04:47 AM

Alllrighty...
See, I'm still not quite happy about that. Not at all.

BUT!

I'm not simply going to use these fancy "arguments" or "words" to persuade you that I'm right. They would be ineffective and you would continue being very very mean to me.

No, see, starting next turn I'm going to provide proof, by abusing the hell out of your decision, until you rescind it. You will rue the day, my friend. RUE THE DAAAAY!

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 06:13 AM

And so what if there's a huge gap between Ginnungagap's name and what it actually is? It's a badass name! Certainly a lot better than Aria.

That...

Aria isn't meant to be badass!

What would you have nicknamed her, hmm? Deathstroke, the Destroyer of Universes?

I'm not simply going to use these fancy "arguments" or "words" to persuade you that I'm right. They would be ineffective and you would continue being very very mean to me.

That implies that your arguments were actually good, instead of just "fancy".

No, see, starting next turn I'm going to provide proof, by abusing the hell out of your decision, until you rescind it. You will rue the day, my friend. RUE THE DAAAAY!

Just hurry up and post.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 07:05 AM

That implies that your arguments were actually good, instead of just "fancy".
Oh come on. My arguments were:
1: It does not make sense for a mechanic that was introduced to prevent cheating should come into play in non-plot-related combat
2: If it does come into combat, it will make combat/trainer dual classes drastically overpowered, since the "combat" aspect of the dual-class will be practically invulnerable until at least two or three of their pokemon are down. The ability to revive pokemon compounds this.
3: In-game, there should be a distinction between "unable to fight and dying" (0 HP) and "dead". Apparently there is this such a distinction, but pokemon will already go rouge once their trainers reach 0 HP, despite the implications of the phrase "going rogue".

And they're all completely coherent and logical.

But y'know what? I said I'd prove to AB that we should do things my way. And I will. But I'm upping my bet, I'm not going to limit myselves to AB. All of you, or at least the trainers amongst you, are going to agree with me.

Cause see, it might seem cool.
You might be going: "Oh, awesome, enemies aren't going to attack me, because otherwise my pokemon will go rogue. I can play offensively with impunity!"

You should be going: "Ohfuckohfuckohfuck don't let enemies attack me or otherwise my pokemon will go rogue. I have to play defensively or I'm screwed."
Cause see, when your pokemon go rogue, that's not just a fancy word meaning that they all get to enter battle at once. It means two things:
First, you no longer have control over them. AB posted what a rogue pokemon's moveset is gonna look like, and that's what's going to happen. Inefficient, yes. But those're the consequences. And even if your characters get revived, they no longer have control over their pokemon! Cause "rogue" means "masterless".

And that brings me to my second point: Your pokemon can die. Your characters' well-trained pokemon? The ones with the custom items and custom movesets? Without a master, they don't have pokeball-protection. That that means, they take fatal damage. And once they take fatal damage, whelp. There goes your Metagross. And your Tyranitar, don't you hate that quadruple weakness. And that Enmakki, pity it only survived two missions.

Yeah, Impact's first kill was a pokemerc. Ground/Dragon type, not sure what its name was. Two hits with the LH launcher, shattered into a million pieces, Impact loved that. Picture that happening to all your legendaries, one after the other, mission after mission. But not to worry! You have that Starmie, don't you? Bet it's itching for a chance at the action.
And Renny can probably borrow pokemon from his parents (if he ever gets that pokebrid-level), though that'll introduce the chance of Snorlax dying. Score! Make sure to do that.

Anyway, you get my point. Going rogue is good in a short-term way, but very, very bad in a long-term way, since your characters are going to get 0-HPed sooner or later, and that means all their 0-HP pokemon are dead. So you should be supporting me, I think.

Unless AB pulls a massive Dick-Move and says none of that applies to PCs, in which case replace all of the above with endlessly-repeated "FUCKYOUABFUCKYOUABFUCKYOUAB".

Ok, see, I meant for this post to be three lines. I hate it when I get gloating. I can never stop myself.

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 07:26 AM

Yes, of course, that's the whole goddamn point! See, that is exactly why it's not broken!

My God, man, how thick are you?

And they're all completely coherent and logical.

That doesn't necessarily mean good.

You should be going: "Ohfuckohfuckohfuck don't let enemies attack me or otherwise my pokemon will go rogue. I have to play defensively or I'm screwed."
Cause see, when your pokemon go rogue, that's not just a fancy word meaning that they all get to enter battle at once. It means two things:
First, you no longer have control over them. AB posted what a rogue pokemon's moveset is gonna look like, and that's what's going to happen. Inefficient, yes. But those're the consequences. And even if your characters get revived, they no longer have control over their pokemon! Cause "rogue" means "masterless".

Oh, you can always throw more pokeballs at 'em after you're revived. I can't see they'd complain, I mean, they were your partners like three seconds ago.

And that brings me to my second point: Your pokemon can die. Your characters' well-trained pokemon? The ones with the custom items and custom movesets? Without a master, they don't have pokeball-protection. That that means, they take fatal damage. And once they take fatal damage, whelp. There goes your Metagross. And your Tyranitar, don't you hate that quadruple weakness. And that Enmakki, pity it only survived two missions.

Yes. That is exactly why none of us will be going suicidal. If only because Slayers and Pokebrids are better overall fighters than regular pokemon, and that involves staying alive. Plus, you know, neither Renny nor Pierce would suicide and let their pokemon go rogue, ever. Because, yeah, they might die.

Hell, I don't think even Charlotte would do that.

Besides, the distinction between "zero HP" and "dead" should also apply to pokemon, no? Though probably less rigorously.

Anyway, you get my point. Going rogue is good in a short-term way, but very, very bad in a long-term way, since your characters are going to get 0-HPed sooner or later, and that means all their 0-HP pokemon are dead. So you should be supporting me, I think.

Technically, our pokemon are only dead if they die after going rogue. Which they don't necessarily have to, unless you want to be a dick about it and let them die.

By the way? I totally pity you.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 08:26 AM

Hey, I insult your intelligence, not vice versa. What is this, opposite day?

And you're right, I should be doing better things with my time. So I'll just say that the fact that the system has two extremes really doesn't make it any better, since they don't cancel each other out. At all. It's "Overpowered in the long term, Game-Over in the short term". It's fucked both ways. I didn't think you'd like that, but fine.

unless you want to be a dick about it and let them die.
Wow! You think? When did you catch on?

And now let us finish this discussion, I stand by what I've said. I shall prove my points in-game. And I've made my post, excuse the absence of easy-to-misunderstand speech.

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 08:30 AM

Yeah, well, clearly the answer is for Battle Masters and Legion Mages to be completely anal about defense!

I'll go catch a Mollesk and Renny can give Pierce some pointers.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 08:47 AM

...
What?
Seriously, what?

The solution is for getting to 0 HP not to have any far-reaching consequences. Neither hugely positive, nor hugely negative. That will motivate neither extremely agressive play (when we're really desparate in the short term and need someone to go rogue to save our party), or extremely defensive play (all other times cause fuck you don't want to lose a pokemon).

Edit:
And one thing. You will edit that post. Pierce will give no orders, Imact's speech is sufficiently clear. Or else by god I will fuck you over to an unimaginable degree. I am entirely serious.

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 08:50 AM

Yeah, I just knew that would get a rise out of you.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Renny will still be anal about defense and Charlotte will still always be thinking about her best interests.

And me, well, I don't think it'll affect me.

But hey, if it seems like I'm being a little too suicidal (moreso than usual), feel free to call me out on it.

EDIT: Oh come on. You already knew I was going to do that. I told you I was going to do that! Well, maybe not the "giving orders" part, but it was implied! I mean, someone's gotta do it, and it can't be Impact.

Oh, I am extremely happy right now.

Menarker

06-21-2010, 09:53 AM

I just felt I should elaborate on this:

The way I see it, there's two types of death in RPGs. There's the simple 0 HP death way and there's the actual permanent way.

The difference? When Cloud loses all of his HP, just use a Phoenix Down or cast Life.

When Aerith was stabbed by Sephiroth? Yeah, that's the permanent death. When Tellah exhausted all of his life in an attempt to defeat Golbez with Meteor when he didn't have the MP required to do so? Yes, that's the permanent death. When Lucifer Caprico, Rayleen's fiancee, got crushed by a falling Bastiodon? Indeed, that's a permanent death.

What about Galuf in FF5? He went down to 0 hitpoints and kept on fighting despite getting hit by Fire 3, Ice 3, Lightning 3, Flare, and Meteo even if he was severely underleveled and naked! All to save his darling granddaughter he only recently remembered he had and his other friends. Ah, the power of love!

Then he died... ^^; Not even Phoenix Down spamming could work.
"I dunno why I can't revive him! I used everything I could!"
"You ever used Ether, and those don't do shit for his health!"

If Pierce or Impact wanted to go out with a bang, I suppose they could do that, and cheat out all damage for the remainder of the battle. And then snuff it. =3

I dunno why you think I'm anal about defense. ^^; I favor it quite a bit, but as you noticed before, I favored powerful offense too as you probably noticed with several MASSIVE arguments stemming from my attempt to go offensive (Belly Drum and Psych Up along with Baton Pass).

But it's true that Renny is the defense specialist out of the PCs. Many strong defense pokemon (although most of them are high up in offense too), pretty balanced element grouping for his team, a mass shielding technique and a mass support technique.

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 10:35 AM

You mean your attempt to cheat like a dirty whore?

Menarker

06-21-2010, 11:24 AM

Hey, I'm just spreading the love along with awesome group support and legit techniques! See if I help you again.

Ass.

Bard The 5th LW

06-21-2010, 01:04 PM

You guys are flaming eachother more than Cerulean WildFire. I don't even find it amusing anymore.
In an attempt to lighten the mood. Here are these. Click it several times.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080802145614/gunnerkrigg/images/thumb/4/49/Reytoy.jpg/200px-Reytoy.jpg[/IMG]"]
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8332/impidle02.gif[/IMG]"]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c275/AgentFortySeven/WHOOPERZODA.gif[/IMG]"]http://sendup.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/giraffe21.jpg[/IMG]"]
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/02014_2.gif

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 01:11 PM

... Goddamn, Bard.

I don't know how or why that was funny but it is.

Astral Harmony

06-21-2010, 02:27 PM

I'm inclined to make Geminex feel better by giving PATCA a mission where they're doing nothing but killing Pokemon by the dozens.

The bosses? Pokegeddon! 'Cause I know you want a rematch, whether you're actually strong enough for it or not.

The whole Rogue Pokemon nonsense came out of when Charlotte tried to shoot Shannon as a deterent to doing that again. Wanna kill the Trainer? Sure, but it's only going to make things worse for you. I needed to think of a logical reason to keep enemies from just attacking the personally defenseless trainers. I thought about having a Pokemon get in the way of the attack, but it didn't work for me for some reason.

Incidentally, I still need to think of how that would make Shannon start crushing on Charlotte. Booze will be a must in this.

Menarker

06-21-2010, 03:04 PM

I'm inclined to make Geminex feel better by giving PATCA a mission where they're doing nothing but killing Pokemon by the dozens.

Unless you make them horribly evil or otherwise unredeemable, this will not make Renny very happy at all... Not one bit. Maybe enough to volunteer to do something else instead and not be in the main group.

And I rather that if we attempt to "kill" the trainer, that we had something like Tranquilizers or some way to at least keep them out of the fight. Since quite of the people we fought switch over to our side after defeat (if not during the fight). This includes a good deal of the ladies now on our team. Also does good for our rep and for our immortal souls (Although Impact might damn it regardless for his own rise to power later on regardless).

Bard The 5th LW

06-21-2010, 03:07 PM

If it is possible to make a new coat from the dead pokemon, then Charlotte will be OK. She'll probably need a costume change eventually.

Menarker

06-21-2010, 03:23 PM

You (Charlotte) are a horrible monster. Horrible, I tell you.

Funny thing is that most of the intimidating and powerful pokemons that would serve as a trophy probably don't have hides suitable for wearing as coats. Rock and Steel type tend to be like suits of armor (real damn heavy), ghost types might be more or less incorporeal, grass pokemons is probably like wearing turf, several pokemons don't have fur seeming to only have flesh, and the ones that do tend to be too small to make a jacket and probably don't fur outlining the entire body. I guess the next best step would be ones with scales like Ferliagatr boots? Maybe dragon pokemons?

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 03:37 PM

Have you seen my Dragonite skin pimp hat?

Bard The 5th LW

06-21-2010, 03:46 PM

Perhaps a jacket made from a skinned Salamence? Probably be like really starchy leather. Feraliator boots do sound appealing...

Geminex

06-21-2010, 05:24 PM

The whole Rogue Pokemon nonsense came out of when Charlotte tried to shoot Shannon as a deterent to doing that again. Wanna kill the Trainer? Sure, but it's only going to make things worse for you. I needed to think of a logical reason to keep enemies from just attacking the personally defenseless trainers. I thought about having a Pokemon get in the way of the attack, but it didn't work for me for some reason.
I think rogue pokemon are a good idea! I think it's great for stopping us from killing defenseless trainers!
But not all trainers are defenseless! If you dual-class a trainer and a combat class, you end up with a trainer that enters combat themselves. But the way you said it, "going rogue" protection doesn't just protect defenseless trainers, but also said battle-trainers. There's a huge difference between the two, and applying it to both is really a bad idea, since Combat Classes should be O-HP-able without enormous consequences.

And Dracorion? I am going to ask you again. Edit your post. Not only are you god-moding in it (it isn't up to you to say what the volume of Impact's speech is, that's mine and AB's job), but your character is giving the orders that I thought up and wrote up, and intended for Impact to give. Both of those, particuarly the second one annoy me severely. This is the last chance you will get to comply and... minimize the consequences.

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 06:44 PM

And Dracorion? I am going to ask you again. Edit your post. Not only are you god-moding in it (it isn't up to you to say what the volume of Impact's speech is, that's mine and AB's job), but your character is giving the orders that I thought up and wrote up, and intended for Impact to give. Both of those, particuarly the second one annoy me severely. This is the last chance you will get to comply and... minimize the consequences.

Well, let's see:

A) Ahaha hahahaha hahahahaha! Seriously? I mean, as far as god-moding goes, that's pretty tame, isn't it? If I had said that Impact tried to talk then started choking on his own blood and almost dying. Or losing an arm. Or, for the benefit of us all, his vocal cords.

B) Didn't we agree to be somewhat democratic about order-giving? Moon and Kurika probably heard Impact's every word, anyway. And it's not like Pierce gave out the whole plan. Renny could've given some specific orders too if he wanted.

Anyway. I'll edit my post. Pierce won't hear Impact, but he won't be giving orders.

Except, before I do that, you have to tell me what these consequences you keep talking about are. I'll edit my post regardless of what you say, but I'm curious.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 06:59 PM

A) It's not far, but it's further than I'd like, and than is beneficial to you.

B) Then let us discuss the allocation of command. I am more than willing to compromise, you know this. But the extent of your attempt at discussion amounted to telling me that Impact couldn't give orders, which, like I said, is not an effective way of approaching me.

Consequences? The usual. Pretty much, I'd actively start looking for ways to screw you over, instead of doing so passively. That does not sound very impressive, I am aware, but I am confident in my ability to manipulate circumstances so that Pierce ends up unconcious and tied in a chair, with Charlotte and her shotgun in the same room and no witnesses around. If I was really desparate I'd probably work to isolate Pierce from the team and discredit him, then kill him during the end-game.

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 07:04 PM

That's not nearly as detailed as I hoped. But I'm editing my post now anyway.

And really, you can discredit Pierce all you want, that bastard ain't dyin'.

And if he does, he'll just claw his way back from hell to kick your ass.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 07:17 PM

Actually, I'm considering whether to suggest to AB to start the sequel that way. Everybody dies, the Kimonos somehow find them in the Netherworld, and their first challenge is to fight their way back into life.

Because
a) Impact's going to want to kill all of you
b) He's likely to succeed
c) Even if he doesn't succeed, he'll arrange things so your pesky insistence of remaining alive has a minimal effect on him.
d) So, for you to be able to hurt Impact, you can't have him expecting you. Dying and then coming back is the best way to do that.
e) Also, I promise, I'd write up such awesome death-scenes, you'll love them. Even if you die.

And your edit is... acceptable. I will assume that Pierce's scouter is malfunctioning due to Rachel's magnet crush.

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 07:25 PM

Because
a) Impact's going to want to kill all of you
b) He's likely to succeed
c) Even if he doesn't succeed, he'll arrange things so your pesky insistence of remaining alive has a minimal effect on him.
d) So, for you to be able to hurt Impact, you can't have him expecting you. Dying and then coming back is the best way to do that.
e) Also, I promise, I'd write up such awesome death-scenes, you'll love them. Even if you die.

I challenge most of this. From b to d, specifically.

Also, most of us will presumably be half-demons before the sequel. And, y'know, I'm pretty sure when demons and half-demons die, they stay dead. Otherwise, why should any of them have to worry about dying? Hell, the Netherworld should be a fucking mess if everyone is immortal. I mean, seriously, shit be FUBAR'd all up in there.

I'm pretty sure you only get one free pass. You die as a human, go to the Netherworld. Then, you have to scour the Netherworld for a Magatama, then you have to find your way back to whatever world you came from, and then you get a second chance as a half-demon.

I mean, what's the downside if you die again and go back to the Netherworld? You're already a half-demon, so it's not like you have to chow down a Magatama again, and you already know the way back to your world.

Besides, say none of us ever die. Wouldn't that encourage us to play purely offensively since we don't have to worry about staying dead, just like if we were battle classes with pokemon? I'm pretty sure the Kimonos have to worry about staying alive, at least.

And your edit is... acceptable. I will assume that Pierce's scouter is malfunctioning due to Rachel's magnet crush.

Or maybe Impact's scouter got smashed by the Guilty Flare. Or something.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 07:34 PM

Or maybe Impact's scouter got smashed by the Guilty Flare. Or something.
I like my version better. How else is everyone going to know what to do?

And hell, it can be a one-time thing we do for plot purposes. I'm sure there's one bit of mythology or another that can be used to justify it.

As for b-d...
I'm not saying he can face you alone. But when you're an uber-dictator, you don't have to, you can get your Deputies and Strike Squads ("Scythetips") to take care of your former allies one-by-one, especially when it seems like they're all terrorists.

Menarker

06-21-2010, 09:20 PM

Well, once Dante posts, we'll be ready for AB. And for a new thread too. ^^

Bard The 5th LW

06-21-2010, 09:25 PM

Where has Dante been recently? I haven't heard from him much.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 09:29 PM

Didn't he say he was busy with theatre again?

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 09:49 PM

As for b-d...
I'm not saying he can face you alone. But when you're an uber-dictator, you don't have to, you can get your Deputies and Strike Squads ("Scythetips") to take care of your former allies one-by-one, especially when it seems like they're all terrorists.

Yeah, like that'll stop us.

Anyway, I just had the most amazing idea. In the shower! Because the bathroom is where the best ideas are made! Like Doc Brown, banging his head on the sink and coming up with the flux capacitor, and by extension, TIME TRAVEL!!!

Can I make up fourth evolutions for Pierce's pseudo-legendaries? Y'know, Tyranitar, Metagross and Aria? Yeah, I realize that might be rather excessive, but I promise not to make it too big a boost. I figure, those three are perhaps the members of Pierce's permanent team that need some growing up. And evolution is probably the best way to highlight that. It's not that they'll evolve and then they'll suddenly be zapped with maturity. Rather, the evolutions will come as a result of their character development.

See, I kinda like the idea of pseudo-legendaries achieving their ultimate, perfect forms not through soulless grinding, but by reaching a new stage of maturity. That goes for both the trainer and the pokemon. Not only do they have to develop individually, but their relationship must grow as well.

With all the sappy in-game justification aside, what I'm thinking of, because evolution must after all involve some kind of boost, is upping their base stats from 600 to 620. Though, that may be too much, of course, so I'm okay with lowering it to 610 or even 605. I'd also like to come up with a custom move for each of them. Nothing overly powerful; they'd be useful, but decent. And their abilities would remain the same, except I might change Metagross'.

What do you all think?

Yeah, I understand your concerns. Pierce's team will already include two legendaries, and now he wants three Uber-pseudo-legendaries? Does that guy want to be unstoppable or what? I understand, and I'm not going to argue if you're all vehemently against it. Just understand that this is about developing their characters rather than buffing up my team.

I'm trying to think up names for Uber-Tyranitar. Behemitar? Collositar? Titanitar (but of course, this one's too close to Tyranitar)? It has to be something big. And I don't even want to get started on Nagarai. Metagross' appearance will be tricky. I mean, the other two would be pretty much the same, just more. But making more of Metagross without looking stupid is going to take some effort.

And my comment about Doc Brown above reminded me of this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBBw9E2Q_aY) So I decided that in the world of Pokemon Umbral that is a real movie. Or should I say... movies.

See, first there's Terminator Goes Back to the Future Part I. Doc Brown invents TIME TRAVEL!!! Skynet sends the T1000 to 1985 to kill Doc Brown, because time travel is the key to stopping it in the past before it can take over the world. The T1000 succeeds, but Marty escapes in the DeLorean to 1955 and it must follow in order to finish the job. John Connor sends Arnold Schwarzenegger the Terminator back to 1955 to protect Marty and Doc. Awesomeness ensues.

Then there's Terminator Goes Back to the Future Part II: Judgment Day. Marty, Doc and Jennifer are stranded in the year 2015 where the machines have taken over the planet. Enter John Connor and the Resistance, which Marty and Jennifer's future selves are a part of. Unfortunately, there's no plutonium for the DeLorean, since the machines used most of it wiping out humanity and the Resistance used what was left trying to stop the machines. But maybe we can find you an alternate power source... More awesomeness ensues, Marty and Doc learn what they need in order to stop Skynet from being built (programmed? formed?), go back to 1958 and succeed in saving the future... almost. Doc is beamed back to the Wild West with a vital piece (chip? hard drive? something?). The equipment to destroy the whateveritis isn't going to be made for more than a hundred years, so Doc can't destroy it. And it's lost upon his death.

Cue Terminator Goes Back to the Future Part III: Salvation. Marty recieves a letter from the year 1885 from Doc. Marty goes to the Wild West to save Doc. Is that the TX? Wait a minute... that's no Terminatrix. Is that... Samuel L. Jackson?! Shit, we are so fucked. (Yeah, I wanted to throw in a black TX. And if you're going to have a black Terminator, who better than Samuel L. Jackson?) Fortunately, John Connor sends Arnold the Terminator to 1885 to save Doc and Marty. Clash of the Titans indeed. Hell, TermiJackson probably even has a lightsaber so he can go Mace Windu all up in yo ass. Of course, to prevent it from becoming Terminator meets Back to the Future meets Star Wars, said lightsaber would see little use. In the end, TermiJackson is destroyed, Marty and Doc save the future, and everyone lives happily ever after.

The end.

As an afterthought: Doc and Marty bring Skynet back with them from the future where it can infect the computer systems in 1985 and begin it's takeover of the world.

Geminex

06-21-2010, 10:01 PM

Wow. Are you sure you were showering?
Because yeah, I get my best ideas in the shower too! Either there, or while I'm half-asleep. But see, my ideas there are logical and coherent. Your post, on the other hand, corresponds less to showering, and more to becoming extremely inebriated. Have you been inbibing large amounts of alcohol, by any chance?

As for the extra-evolutions... It doesn't sound too horrible. I think it should be limited to leader-pokemon only, and the custom move shouldn't be any more powerful than already-existing moves, but I'd be allright with that whole thing being a level-up benefit for trainers in the later levels. That'd mean that Menarker can get it too, but that'd be allright.

Menarker

06-21-2010, 10:06 PM

You're drunk. You must be drunk.

The Drac I know said stupid stuff before, but never like that! You're an imposter!

Custom Moves? Increased stats all around? I don't mind at all, since
A: I'm gunning for the same myself
B: AB said that would happen due to Pokemon Breeder class being considered elites, among other bonuses.

But a fourth evolution? That's needlessly complicated and I fail to see where character development comes just because they hit a new level of puberty! Isn't there any other way/reason that they can develop as characters that aren't so drastic? Cause I totally think that idea is retarded (my personal opinion that came right at the top of my head when I read this). Character development? I'm behind that. The suggested Power boost? It's not overboard and AB said that power boosts would be part of the Pokemon Breeder package. Custom Moves? Hell, I want them too! But a sudden change in the entire notion of pokemon by adding a 4th tier of evolutions naturally? I'm gunning that down as it is. The entire explaination between pokemons and trainers having to grow and develop together to reach a new level? That's everything I said about Pokemon Breeders already. God, it's like everyone is trying to take my ideas and claim them as their own!

Now, if Pierce wanted to make them Poke-weapons... I guess that make sense a bit since Burkmont has been doing the same thing (thus there is precedant, and AB can help you out probably), giving pokemons multiple additional evolutions. But this sort of thing doesn't happen naturally (as far as any of the pokemon contents like anime or games are concerned)... plus, this would probably be less of a character development than Pierce deciding that he wanted to turn his pokemons into weapons (or so I would see it).

That's my reaction, so I'm sorry if I seem like I exploded. ^^;

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 10:08 PM

For all you know I was showering in beer.

And the idea that I got while in the shower was the extra evolutions. And I would really really like it if I could get it for all three pokemon I requested.

Terminator Goes Back to the Future is something I made up on the spot and pretty much just spinned out of my comment about Doc Brown.

EDIT: But a fourth evolution? That's needlessly complicated and I fail to see where character development comes just because they hit a new level of puberty! Isn't there any other way/reason that they can develop as characters that aren't so drastic? Cause I totally think that idea is retarded (my personal opinion that came right at the top of my head when I read this). Character development? I'm behind that. Power boost? It's not overboard and AB said that power boosts would be part of the Pokemon Breeder package. Custom Moves? Hell, I want them too! But a sudden change in the entire notion of pokemon by adding a 4th tier of evolutions naturally? I'm gunning that down. The entire explaination between pokemons and trainers having to grow and develop? That's everything I said about Pokemon Breeders already. God, it's like everyone is trying to take my ideas and claim them as their own!

Oh come on. This is Pokemon Umbral! A whole new world! We can push the boundaries, change the rules! I mean, you made a non-legendary evolve into a legendary. Are fourth evolutions really so much more radical than that?

See, the evolutions wouldn't make them mature. Rather, they would mature and that would cause them to evolve.

Think of it as a happiness-induced evolution, if you will (which I like better than just having them evolve to UBER forms by grinding). If I had to justify it, I would say... hmmm... Maybe pseudo-legendaries have a happiness cap of 250. In order to overcome that limit, they and their trainer have to reach a certain level of personal growth at which point they would reach 255 and evolve.

And I was not at all thinking of Pokemon Breeders when I came up with it. When I said custom moves, I meant made-up moves that you can make available to your own pokemon if you'd like. Like how Dialga, Enmakki and Bard's Revenard all have their own awesome made up moves. Legendaries that AB's made up like Cerebraptor and Allegion, too. And the moves I'd be giving my pokemon really, really wouldn't be very powerful. Like I said, useful but decent.

Menarker

06-21-2010, 10:23 PM

Dracorion

06-21-2010, 10:34 PM

I still think it's utterly absurd, and believe me, Renny has two pokemons that evolves from happiness (Togepi to Togetic and Eevee to Umbreon), so he/I know! That is his gig! Spotlight stealing and toe stepping aside, I still think you can come up with better ways to make your pokemons shine than to break all the rules.

Well, yeah. I can give them character development regardless of whether or not they evolve. And I wasn't so much looking to make them shine. More like rewarding myself for getting to that point. It's not like they're going to be evolving right away, and they sure as hell won't all be evolving together. It's going to be a long and painful process to get them from where they are now to where I want them to be.

I mean, Tyranitar has to accept that Pierce is a big boy now. Aria has to grow up. And Metagross has to learn emotion.

Pierce isn't going to go for a team of genetically-fucked up pokemon like Pokegeddon. Not that AB would ever let us get anywhere near Pokegeddon's power levels. But yeah, going Pokesapien was actually Aria's idea. And Pierce, nice as he is and fully aware of the consequences, agreed anyway. And she's just like any other pokemon, except with a huge rack and the ability to talk.

And I encourage you to evolve your pokemon. Come up with a fourth form for Togekiss. Evolve Shaymin! Hell, evolve Umbreon and open the doors to a whole new world of third-stage Eeveelutions. Want some help?

As for custom moves, that's pretty much how I thought it would be. I gave you an example before too!

Man, that was forever ago, how can you expect me to remember that? Seriously, I have no idea what that example was.