Fuck you M. Night Shamwow, the Last Airbender totally sucked!

[Azisien]

SPOILERS: If you haven't seen Avatar: The Last Airbender, I can't imagine myself not dropping a spoiler or two. If you plan on seeing either the TV show or the movie at some point uh...Sorry, I'll do my best. :)


Hay guys so I'm actually surprised given the solid Avatar: The Last Airbender following that there wasn't a peep of this up until I decided to put finger to keypad. Let's see what are the major points to hit here, a few days off from the movie release.....

1. Avatar: The Last Airbender is Fucking Awesome

http://talkinstuff.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/the_last_airbender.jpg


I'm probably a Class-5 Avatard, which means I'm willing to have real life arguments with people to defend its honour. I don't know if its my favourite show EVER, but it's easily top 3. It's certainly the most well rounded and light hearted. The TV show was short, relatively low on filler, and an ideal balance of action, comedy, drama, and the journey of teenagers that can shoot elements out of their hands.

When I heard a live-action movie was in the works, my Class-5 Avatard self kicked into immediately caution and pessimism. Wait, WHA-

2. The Guy That Made Signs and Shit Is Making This?

http://rymeorreason.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/00010920.jpg

What a twurst!! The only redeeming factor about this guy is that he has two daughters that loved the TV show. We have people on the inside in case the movie is atrocious and we need to partake in a little bit of assassination.

There are some worrying things about a live-action movie. One thing I'm not worried about is technology. I thought, and the trailers don't lie, that we were at a point where we could make bending elements look sexy, and it's true. The worrying part about a live-action movie is the inevitable changes that will be made. Part of the changes need to be in the interest of time, and that I can understand. The other will probably be changes to please wider audiences. As if Avatar needs changing, seriously. There are flaws of course, and some crappy episodes, and characters that leave things to be desired, but the core of the show is essentially flawless, and simply a good watch. How could someone take the entire first season of the show, condense it into a little over one and a half hours, still cover everything, and still make it the Avatar: The Last Airbender we all know and hate/enh/like/love/avatard?

The sad truth is, it is more or less impossible, at least for someone under the whip of Hollywood. Someone willing to bend (snicker) to the overminds that control the big giant water-down generic-ifying machine that gets poured onto any big screen release.

3. Screw following the show as a guideline for cast ethnicities, this is AMERICA, so it shall be...THE SHINY GOOD WHITE GUYS VS. THE BIG BAD MEAN BROWN GUYS!

This is a big talking point, because, well, racism and Yellowface and such. Even though Avatar's status as an actual anime is probably false, it's basically an anime, and the entire mythology of the whole show is taken straight out of Asian themes. The god damn characters are Asian, or Inuit, or at best Caucasian in the Earth Kingdom.

The casting for the show is just all over the place, really.

Perhaps we should snowball this into a 100 page yelling match on racism in Hollywood! I'll put 10 down on Prems, he's got 2:1 odds against Nique and Funka.

4. I found something! Some evidence! The movie trailers!

There's plenty of trailers running around here. My speculation:

1. Movie is going to be too super serious, losing a lot of the light heartedness and comedy of the TV show.

2. Iroh's actor FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

3. Fights will probably be awesome

4. I'm taking fireworks into the theater to celebrate it if its good, heckle it if its bad, and blow up fireworks either way because I have my tickets preordered for July 1st already.


Movie Trailer 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W1dhqc-JBs)
Movie Trailer 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YgaVe19zs8)
Japanese Intl Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oivCNyoB0Uc)


There's another trailer floating out there with some shots of Appa and Momo, but I haven't found them.

[Kim]

I'm just not going to watch it. After a certain point, I got very good at ignoring video game and anime movies as a rule.

[Lumenskir]

1) Where the fuck is the required Avatar-related title pun? There's a responsibility that comes with making an Avatar centric thread.

2) Honestly, the movie won't diminish the show. The first two seasons will still remain examples of near-perfect storytelling, having live action movie versions of that stupid recap episode from the third season doesn't diminish the enjoyment inherent in the actual show.

3) I hope to god that when I finally get around to seeing this on HBO, the trailer will have lied and the bending takes place in some temporal space outside of slow motion. All of the best fights on the show were break neck affairs, not elemental ping pong matches.

[Aerozord]

is it just me or was Katara kind of shoved into the background?

And my biggest peeve I bet they will totally ignore the fact Sokka is sexist. Him losing that was one of the bigger factors in his character development as it also forced him to realize not only is this outlook wrong but he himself is a pretty poor warrior in the grand scheme

[Amake]

The journey of teenagers that can shoot elements out of their hands. Very well written. xD

I'm torn about this movie. On one hand, I kinda liked the show except for the prevalent "Let's Be Total Idiots To Create Drama" moments, and that it made me want to sleep about half the time. A movie is likely to fix both those things. On the other hand, making the heroes white is fucking insulting to every single person of color in the world and insulting to the intelligence of moviegoers everywhere. It's about the most blatant racism Hollywood has let slip that I can remember and I figure it's about time to call them on it.

[Azisien]

1) Where the fuck is the required Avatar-related title pun? There's a responsibility that comes with making an Avatar centric thread.

Hey, I thought the thread title was fine thanks!

2) Honestly, the movie won't diminish the show. The first two seasons will still remain examples of near-perfect storytelling, having live action movie versions of that stupid recap episode from the third season doesn't diminish the enjoyment inherent in the actual show.

It won't diminish the show directly, but it makes my life as an Avatard harder. For instance, after the movie, most likely, people will be like "Oh, that Last Airbender movie? What a stupid movie!" And I'll be like "*facepalm* No! Well, yes, it was, but god damn, the source material is good!"

It's made all the worse by the fact that I work in a video store currently. Movie discussions come up.

And my biggest peeve I bet they will totally ignore the fact Sokka is sexist.

My biggest pet peeve is M. Night came right out and said, worse than this, that Sokka won't really be comedic relief anymore.

HE BETTER BE TWISTING ME.

[bluestarultor]

Uh, first off, I'm pretty sure we DID have at least one thread a while back.

On race, okay, yeah, the kid who plays Aang is white. He's also the same age as the character and is also already a black belt in the exact martial art Aang practices from what I hear. As in I don't care if the kid is green, he gets the part. People are going WAY too apeshit over the casting when the fact is that this has to be about the least whitewashed cast ever. Never mind they're all great actors or have a special something that makes them perfect for the part, you have three white kids GASP! And race is internally consistent throughout the whole production, including Uncle Iroh, who is neither a villain nor European. So you can't even make your argument of the white master race versus people of color. In short, I find this argument hasty.




See, I really don't see why people are so quick to shoot this down. M. Night watched the series since like the third episode and loved the whole thing. They didn't randomly ask "the twist guy" to direct this thing. He battered their door down with a tree he ran into and broke off on his way there and said "PICK ME PICK ME OH GOD PICK MEEEEEEE!" I understand people hold the show up like something sacred, but this production has an amazing team who are enthusiastic about making it happen and making it work.

[Kim]

And I'm sure you have an explanation for why the water tribe be white as hell, too?

If he really loved the show he wouldn't be cutting the humor out of it.

[Azisien]

People are going WAY too apeshit over the casting when the fact is that this has to be about the least whitewashed cast ever. Never mind they're all great actors or have a special something that makes them perfect for the part, you have three white kids GASP! And race is internally consistent throughout the whole production, including Uncle Iroh, who is neither a villain nor European. So you can't even make your argument of the white master race versus people of color. In short, I find this argument hasty.

See, I really don't see why people are so quick to shoot this down. M. Night watched the series since like the third episode and loved the whole thing. They didn't randomly ask "the twist guy" to direct this thing. He battered their door down with a tree he ran into and broke off on his way there and said "PICK ME PICK ME OH GOD PICK MEEEEEEE!" I understand people hold the show up like something sacred, but this production has an amazing team who are enthusiastic about making it happen and making it work.

I'm not quick to shoot it down, I'm apprehensive because it's a movie about one of my favourite shows. I reserve the right to. And there are definitely a lot of people that love the show making it, because I have seen some fantastic stuff. The sets are insanely great looking, for instance. The effects are pretty much perfect.

But the casting is pretty average, or bad, from everything I've seen so far. Pretty sure Noah Ringer, the kid playing Aang, is just a Tae-Kwon-Do black belt. Obviously he's a good pick on the martial arts side, though I don't think that's what Aang practices. Anyway...

The multiculturalism of the movie in general is uh...arguably okay, but I'm not seeing the internal consistency you are Blues. There's white, brown, and yellow mixed up everywhere and it doesn't make sense compared to the show, or to actual breeding.

Edit: Well more than that. A surprising amount of season 1 is covered in the trailers combined. However, I saw that it was an hour and forty minutes and I was like "HOW can you cover all that appreciably?" I'm sad they seem to have cut out Boomy and Omashu for anything more than a cameo (and Boomy isn't on IMDB).

[Amake]

Err, out of all the non-white characters in the cast, the only ones for whom no appropriate color actors could be found are the three main protagonists. But noo, I'm sure that's only because they were the best actors and not at all because 90% of Hollywood movies have to be about straight white men.

So Katara has a reduced role in the movie huh?

[Kim]

Did anyone else think the acting wasn't so good in the trailers?

[Aerozord]

honestly my problem with the movie isn't even casting, director, or that its live action, I think its gonna suck because its a movie. Show had pretty much flawless pacing, you cant cut it down without reducing the quality.

[Azisien]

You could cut out the Painted Lady... :p

[Aerozord]

You could cut out the Painted Lady... :p

*SMACKS*

[Nique]

Perhaps we should snowball this into a 100 page yelling match on racism in Hollywood! I'll put 10 down on Prems, he's got 2:1 odds against Nique and Funka.

Not that it matters but I'd actually have to go back through that thread with a machete to make sure I'm not contradicting myself here. Anydangways, with casting decisions like this I'm more inclined to take the MORAL OUTAGE route. This is... more of a blatent dismisal of the issue than what I percieved the *OTHER* movie to be.

Also: Aasif Mandvi as Admiral Zhao? No thanks, I'd rather take another white guy.

But yeah I mean it's also sort of a fuzzy issue becuase you've got an obviously not white guy directing + a largely non-white secondary (but important) cast and, maybe, less of an oppurtunity for racial stereotypes to creep in? Like, seriously, Indian imperialists oppressing white natives? There are just so many directions to approach this from.

They didn't randomly ask "the twist guy" to direct this thing. He battered their door down with a tree he ran into and broke off on his way there and said "PICK ME PICK ME OH GOD PICK MEEEEEEE!"

Grgit >.O - I can not stop thinking of the Family Guy joke 'It's a twist! It's a twist! etc etc on and on'

[Lumenskir]

You could cut out the Painted Lady... :p
Like I said in some other thread, the third season is the only one with enough expendable flotsam that it not only makes sense, but is actually merciful to cut down to two hours.

TL;DR: Spizace Sizword sucked ass. All who disagree suck cock by choice.

EDIT: On the director front, the last time Shimmy tried to make a movie 'for his kids' he made Lady in the Water.

[Lithp]

And my biggest peeve I bet they will totally ignore the fact Sokka is sexist.

Why? It wasn't very important.

Anyway, I'm with the people who hate the very idea of this movie. Why? It's wholly unnecessary. Since it doesn't add anything to the story, which already includes like 3 "movies," of sorts, it really can't do anything "good" for the series, even if it defies everyone's expectations & actually turns out to be pretty kickass by some--turn. If not, I guess it'll still just be that shameful installment that I ignore in my nostalgia. Even so, I have to watch it, if only to pass self-righteous criticism on it.

[Ecks]

The way I see it... adaptations of ANYTHING are guaranteed suckage. Anime adapted from manga generally sucks (with notable exceptions), games adapted from movies most certainly suck (on this point, there can be no dissention), games adapted from movies adapted from comics BLOW FUCKING CHUNKS (unless they're called Batman: Arkham Asylum).

So, as I usually do... I'll probably watch this movie. I may enjoy it. May not. Won't change how I feel about Avatar. Won't change how I feel about Hollywood clinging to fifty-year-old conventions in every single movie they make, no matter the subject matter.

[Red Fighter 1073]

What I don't get is how do you go from an Asian Prince Zuko to having an Indian playing the character? I mean, I can at least understand a white guy playing Aang because the skin tone is kinda similar, but Dev Patel looks nothing like Prince Zuko. And on the same topic, casting white people for the Inuit Sokka and Katara just seems weird to me. If anything, I would cast a bunch of Indian people as the Inuits if you were gonna do that.

[TIME BOMB]

im so stoked out of my mind for this movie! I sure hope it doesnt suck cuz thatd make me sad. I think the whole racism argument is pretty ridic though honestly now.

[Mondt]

I'm gonna see it at midnight with a friend.

I have this awesome condition where I can be entirely unaffected by bad movies that are related to things I like.

[Azisien]

Like I said in some other thread, the third season is the only one with enough expendable flotsam that it not only makes sense, but is actually merciful to cut down to two hours.

Well in all honesty, Painted Lady was just the one that immediately comes to mind for the series as a whole that's a slap-in-the-face filler episode that doesn't belong.

However, if we're talking season one and this movie, I'd say cutting Jet etc was a fine choice. Never liked Jet or his whole arc in general. Still sad at no apparent Boomy though. I would have swallowed Jet's presence if it meant chewing on gemenite.

[Kim]

I think the whole racism argument is pretty ridic though honestly now.

Why? Non-white characters were replaced with white ones for no apparent reason, and the characters who were white-washed just happened to be the "good guys". In what way is that not racist?

[Bells]

Why? Non-white characters were replaced with white ones for no apparent reason, and the characters who were white-washed just happened to be the "good guys". In what way is that not racist?

Well, this is me playing Devil's Advocate really... but you have the consider the "Why". As in "Why" those actors were picked... do you have any sort of evidence that the people with power to directly influence casting choice have this White Washing Habit? I ask just so we don't get stuck on "I know cause i'm sure" territory.

Maybe this were the best performers avaliable... i mean, "looking the role" is just one part of the process. People also need to know how to act and work with other actors AND crew, there are schedules that can't conflict too much and Money to be talked about.

I mean.... it can be a little more complicated than "It's racist because the people behind it are closeted racists", for all i know it could be a simple matter of flat out stupidity... like "we White-washed the cast cause our research showed that the Audience likes it better this way".... At the end of the day, they aren't here to celebrate Avatar, they are here to sell a product, and they want as many people buying as possible...

[Meister]

for all i know it could be a simple matter of flat out stupidity... like "we White-washed the cast cause our research showed that the Audience likes it better this way".... At the end of the day, they aren't here to celebrate Avatar, they are here to sell a product, and they want as many people buying as possible...
Well then it's a matter of society being racist and producers of a major cultural product actively catering to that for profit. Somehow that seems a lot worse.

[Amake]

It's not that people won't watch nonstandard* movies, apparently we have shown that we do as far as any conclusive evidence can be gathered. (Which is hard because A-list nonstandard movies so rarely get made.) But it's the studios that wants to keep standard movies the standard because it makes things less confusing for their investors. I covered that in another thread but it bears repeating.

*The standard being movies that are about straight white males.

[Aerozord]

remember corporations aren't people they are semi-autonomous businesses with no conscience, morality, or agenda beyond "make money". They are profit machines and if america wants a white cast thats what they'll get. They as always actively catering to something just to make a profit. Its the whole reason they exist in the first place. Only way it will is if its not profitable, in which case society is to blame not them.

[Lumenskir]

However, if we're talking season one and this movie, I'd say cutting Jet etc was a fine choice. Never liked Jet or his whole arc in general. Still sad at no apparent Boomy though. I would have swallowed Jet's presence if it meant chewing on gemenite.
I dunno, I liked Jet because the writers always used him well to bring out different aspects of the main characters. I guess they could have just written episodes where one of the Gaang inches closer to falling off the slippery slope until the others reined them back in, but Jet always seemed to function well as the guy that lead them to the edge, jumped off, and proved how crazy the line of thinking was. Plus, hook swords and omnipresent hay is cool.

In fact, the only filler episode I could think of from the first season was The Great Divide, and just because it didn't really offer anything new/have any cool fight scenes. Like has been said, the first season benefits from the decompression inherent in television.

The third season, however, would make a great movie. The looming deadline would actually be palpable in a two hour movie, instead of it being forgotten week-to-week so Aang could dance with the kids from Footloose or episodes from Season 1 could be redone or all the bullshit that happened when Zuko finally switched sides and they had to forcefully integrate him somehow (to say nothing of finally being rid of The Beach). Hopefully they'd think up something better than a Talking Island From A Time Before Bending to end the series though.

[Azisien]

That would be like getting rid of the giant squid-alien in Watchman. You just can't do it man!

[Fusionman]

I am worried. Why are dragons in the preview? Why does the Aang actor look 8? Why is none of the original cast returning? This is going to be this year's Dragonball Evolution.

[Azisien]

Probably Avatar Roku's dragon companion.

[Fusionman]

Probably Avatar Roku's dragon companion.

Oh yeah Roku had a dragon... Oops! Did the dragon talk though? He did in the previews. I do admit that seeing Yue waterbending in the previews made me smile.

[Kim]

Did the dragon talk though?

I want to say Roku talked in the form of a dragon, but I'm not sure.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

This is going to be this year's Dragonball Evolution.
Hey, no need to use such strong words. It can't possibly sink that low.

[Nique]

Hey, no need to use such strong words. It can't possibly sink that low.

Not even the worst M. Night Shyamalan movie even approaches Dragonball Evolution.

[Fusionman]

Not even the worst M. Night Shyamalan movie even approaches Dragonball Evolution.

Funny. Dragonball Evolution wasn't a ego fest saying "I''m the Jesus of film directors! Love me!"

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Funny. Dragonball Evolution wasn't a ego fest saying "I''m the Jesus of film directors! Love me!"
But that's the director, not the movies themselves. Just because the creator is a raging egotist doesn't mean their work completely sucks.

[Fusionman]

But that's the director, not the movies themselves. Just because the creator is a raging egotist doesn't mean their work completely sucks.

Fine you have a point there. Here's something for the racism comments. Each nation is now a race. The Air Nomads and the Water Tribe seems to be white. The Earth Kingdom is Asian which means the second movie will be full of Asians. Lastly the Fire Nation is mostly African (?) so Azula will be a Indian or something similar.

[Kim]

But each nation was a race already. The Fire Nation was Japanese, and that seemed to be largely what their culture was based on, the obsession with honor and the historical importance of dragons for example. The Water Tribe was Inuit, or so I'm lead to believe, which made sense because they lived in snowy areas. No idea what the Earth Kingdom was, probably white, and I think the Air Tribe was white but they seemed largely inspired by the idea of Buddhist monks so yeah. Making the "bad guys" the brown people and the good guys all whiter than me seems a tad racist in my book.

[Lumenskir]

Just because the creator is a raging egotist doesn't mean their work completely sucks.
I'm gonna fuck you with some truth: The Happening.
That would be like getting rid of the giant squid-alien in Watchman. You just can't do it man!
At least Squiddie was set up (and if the rabid fanwanks I've read online are to be believed, has some thematic point). I've never seen anybody even try to defend TIFATBB.

[Fusionman]

But each nation was a race already. The Fire Nation was Japanese, and that seemed to be largely what their culture was based on, the obsession with honor and the historical importance of dragons for example. The Water Tribe was Inuit, or so I'm lead to believe, which made sense because they lived in snowy areas. No idea what the Earth Kingdom was, probably white, and I think the Air Tribe was white but they seemed largely inspired by the idea of Buddhist monks so yeah. Making the "bad guys" the brown people and the good guys all whiter than me seems a tad racist in my book.

Hey I never said this change made any sense. Seriously though why are we calling M. Night Shamalammadingdong a racist when he's a Indian? He'd be racist against himself!

[Kim]

1. Not necessarily. Just because he's the director doesn't automatically mean he's the one in charge of casting. He might be, but sometimes casting is decided by specific, different people.

2. It's possible to be a person of color and still be racist.

3. It's possible that higher ups said to change the cast to be more white.

[Aerozord]

hey I think this is actually topical (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfRGSKyoR_g&feature=player_embedded)

[Premmy]

Perhaps we should snowball this into a 100 page yelling match on racism in Hollywood! I'll put 10 down on Prems, he's got 2:1 odds against Nique and Funka.
http://ajuaa.com/lookme/pictures/b6yu5nvgehmhbnuxzg30vhgdaihsz0s0xfnss8yueb2gpk2drv 5b3ae2gjk7b0yz6cina75fuck-you.jpg (http://www.racebending.com/v3/)

[Fusionman]

The third season, however, would make a great movie. The looming deadline would actually be palpable in a two hour movie, instead of it being forgotten week-to-week so Aang could dance with the kids from Footloose or episodes from Season 1 could be redone or all the bullshit that happened when Zuko finally switched sides and they had to forcefully integrate him somehow (to say nothing of finally being rid of The Beach).

You want to get rid of the beach? Shut your face! That episode was for development of the characters! OK fanservice was just as important but no beach!?

[Aerozord]

Fusionman makes a good point. This is hollywood, do you really think they'd cut the fanservice episode?

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I'm gonna fuck you with some truth: The Happening.
Yeah, well... I got nothin'.

[Sithdarth]

Good news everyone. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxKIu_AdLCY&feature=related) The humor is at the very least not 100% gone. Exactly how far that is going to extend is anyone's guess. At the very least Sokka is still the whipping boy.

[Kim]

I really can't get over the actors for Sokka and Kitara. They just don't seem to fit the roles at all. Like, I see them, and I start laughing for all the wrong reasons.

[Aerozord]

I think its partly because the voice actors did their jobs so well, and been hearing them for years, its hard to get used to anyone else.

[bluestarultor]

I really can't get over the actors for Sokka and Kitara. They just don't seem to fit the roles at all. Like, I see them, and I start laughing for all the wrong reasons.

Well, you can't win 'em all. I agree there were probably better options. On the other hand, it's probably executive meddling just to squeeze a few more white faces in.

Personally, I'm just going to wait and see, because that preview posted by Sith wasn't all that encouraging on those two's abilities.

[Nique]

2. It's possible to be a person of color and still be racist.

Or to make decisions that reflect a, perhaps unintentionally, racist system.

Here's my take on it: Airbender is probably not a "racist" movie, becuase it is likely not going to reinfore negative racial stereotypes. This would slightly difficult to do on accident anyway since these are fictional races of people. Though the analogy to actual cultures is pretty blatent, even that issue is a little blurry now that the main cast is white-(ish? these trailers are kind of dimly lit so I dunno).

But the casting of the movie reflects either flat-out racisim ("But we want our general audience (white people) to relate to these characters") or an ignorance about how sensitive this issue can be... I mean, quoting Marissa from the Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along-Blog Commentary, nobody is Asian in the movies. If any film should have been a legitmate platform for Asian actors beyond the buddy-cop genre (I'm glaring at you, Jackie Chan) this was it.

I'm gonna go see it, and hopefully it will be a good movie, despite how much the casting decisions bother me. Hopefully the actors can seperate the critisism of the casting choices from critisism of their own performance.

[Premmy]

My Twitter is Lighting up with
"Just saw it, It sucks"
So yeah,was not seeing it, (maybe see it totally legally so I can know what I'm talking about when I diss it,) and I feel Double Happy about it

Edit:
*Sigh*
Perhaps we should snowball this into a 100 page yelling match on racism in Hollywood! I'll put 10 down on Prems, he's got 2:1 odds against Nique and Funka.
I got five on it.
Here's my take on it: Airbender is probably not a "racist" movie, becuase it is likely not going to reinfore negative racial stereotypes. This would slightly difficult to do on accident anyway since these are fictional races of people. Though the analogy to actual cultures is pretty blatent, even that issue is a little blurry now that the main cast is white-(ish? these trailers are kind of dimly lit so I dunno).
Well, I'd say they Reinforce at least one Stereotype
http://www.racebending.com/v3/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/castcomparison.png
There needs to be a shot of a random brown extra from the background with "Not important" underneath to make it complete, cause that's what diversity means according to this flick, kids.

[Archbio]

The race issue aside (and it is very much an issue,) why would I go see it?

Does it seem like it's going to be a work of fiction that uses cinema as well or better as the series used animation*? Far from it. So what does it bring? Live actors? Personally I'm unconvinced that live action is so much superior that it counterbalances drops in many other qualities and the price of admission.

Also, the race thing.

*Season two contains amazing animated stuff.

[Premmy]

Fish Punching, Darlin', Fish Punchin'

Review One (http://community.livejournal.com/racebending/246774.html)
Review Two (http://www.fusedfilm.com/2010/06/the-last-airbender-review-the-same-old-m-night-disappointing-flat-and-just-bad/)

[Kyanbu The Legend]

And in the end it did suck. Somewhat.

[Archbio]

The first review seems to deplore some things that was stuff that really should be expected to be trimmed out for time/coherence alongside some really important cut that shouldn't have been cut ever.

The thing that will now define why not see this movie for me:

There are dozens of Earthbenders being held prisoner by three or four Firebender guards (who have the one big "fire pot" source to bend from since they can't generate their own fire).

:aaa:

[Premmy]

That Bugged me, Airbenders and Firebenders were always so limited in the use of their power (Air=Defense Fire=Offense) that they got balance from having their Element always readily available. Water Benders and Earth Benders were more versatile, but needed their element present. These concepts of balance are missing from the flick, obviously.

[Archbio]

In that passage there's also the part about how a couple of (nerfed) firebenders were holding a bunch of earthbenders prisoner in an ordinary camp on land.

In addition to a the absence of the sense of plausibility that the series (a cartoon suitable for kids) had, the thought that went into things like the Earthbender prison also seems to have been sucked out.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Damn it, james that makes no sense at all.

[Premmy]

I think the funny part is the Katarra Speech in that episode was all about how they should fight even when the chips are down because they are Proud Earthbenders, and She gives them hope not just with the rocks, but with he "Proud" thing. I can only imagine that scene was either
1: recreated whole-cloth, but because they were on land it loses all power
2: Was terrible, terrible comedy
Katarra: Hey, Earthbender dudes?
Earthbender Dudes: Yeah?
Katarra: You know we're on land, right?
Earthbender Dudes:........
Katarra::raise:

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I'm going with number 1.

[Azisien]

Reviews? It's out? I thought it came out July 1st.

I mean I know its probably leaked and reviewed six months ago because this is 2010, but seriously. :|

[Premmy]

Special Reviewer reviews, methinks.

[Azisien]

Ah well, in a way, I'm glad if it blows, because then the post-movie discussions will be one-sided. One-sided in a horrible way, but still.

[Nique]

I got five on it.

Aw come now, let's not fight darling.

Well, I'd say they Reinforce at least one Stereotype

Something less obvious than... dark colored people are the evil other? Or, that?

I must have not been paying attention becuase I did not realize that Aang's actor was actually white. It was more like 'oh random: Eskimos are white and Japanese people are Indian now,ok?'

Me and Tiff are discussing this and decided that having Japanese playing roles as the Fire Nation would have been probably a lot more controversial. There's not really anything to be reinforced by having that role filled by Indians whereas Japanese as militant oppressors could have probably been... messy, PR wise. It probably wouldn't have been actually racist since the rest of the cast would have likely been picked out of a more racially diverse group as well, but (ironically) would probably be perceived as such.

But yeah I mean, you're pretty much right that since the protagonists are now all white it doesn't really make a difference what 'race' fills the role of the fire nation.

Like I said, this could have been a great platform for a lot of talented Asian and Asian-American actors and it should have been since 'looking the part' is actually a pretty big deal in movies.

I'm hoping that the story is at least as complicated as it was in the show - the conflict wasn't about the fire nation being evil. It was a few evil rulers. The earth kingdom wasn't exactly innocent in every affair either what with the scheming Dai Li, or even Jet. If it isn't than it really will be white people VS other.

[Lumenskir]

There's an interview with Aasif Mandvi on AV Club, but aside from the fact that he got the Zhao job by already being friends with Shimmy, this is the only relevant bit of Avatar discussion-
The A.V. Club: What’s your take on the casting controversy? About not having Asian actors in the main roles?

AM: Not to get into it too much, but I think Night’s tried to create a world that’s overall more culturally diverse, and draws from more backgrounds and ethnicities and traditions than the Last Airbender TV show did. It’s an interesting story, because unlike Lord Of The Rings or something like that, where it’s set in an imaginary world with hobbits and gnomes, this is set in a world populated by humans. And so in order to represent humanity, you need to represent all of its various cultures. Even though a lot of the martial arts obviously are based in Eastern tradition, I think over the course of the trilogy, you’ll see that Night’s vision includes the entire spectrum of cultures.

So really, there's only one new nugget of information: Toph will be played by a sassy black kid.

I'm crossing my fingers for Bobb'e J. Thompson.

[Funka Genocide]

White people are easier to market. I mean, we all knew that, but I just figured I'd say it.

Just to say it.

I think I'll go see it because I have no preconceptions about the Avatar series. It's always best to see the derivative before the source in my opinion, because then when you finally get around to seeing the source it's even better.

(Jurassic Park, for example. I read the book first, which really kind of killed the movie a bit. Still, CG dinosaurs!)

[Lumenskir]

I think I'll go see it because I have no preconceptions about the Avatar series.
What about preconceptions of movies that are just plain bad?

I mean, unless you subscribe to the blues notion that critics hate 'fun' movies because they (the critics) are all, like, stodgy and shit, the reviews I've seen keep coming back to the same basic point that it's an overly talky film with mediocre to bad action. At least A-Team is stupid-fun in its badness, and there are legitimately good movies you could be giving money to instead (Off the top of my head in theaters: Dogtooth, Winter's Bone, Restrepo, shit, just watch Toy Story 3 again).

Unless you meant go see it in the cable-run or legitimately legal sense.

[bluestarultor]

What about preconceptions of movies that are just plain bad?

I mean, unless you subscribe to the blues notion that critics hate 'fun' movies because they (the critics) are all, like, stodgy and shit, the reviews I've seen keep coming back to the same basic point that it's an overly talky film with mediocre to bad action. At least A-Team is stupid-fun in its badness, and there are legitimately good movies you could be giving money to instead (Off the top of my head in theaters: Dogtooth, Winter's Bone, Restrepo, shit, just watch Toy Story 3 again).

Unless you meant go see it in the cable-run or legitimately legal sense.

I take offense to this. Not a lot of offense, but it's a bit more complex than that. ;)

My argument is that critics often pan mindless fun, and even that's not universal. Case in point, I liked Prince of Persia because while it wasn't all that deep, it was still a fun ride. Some critics recognized its merits, some panned it for being shallow. It was by no means perfect, but I don't regret seeing it.

Obviously, if a movie is neither deep nor even a mindless trip, there's good reason to pan it. Some movies are just bad.

[Funka Genocide]

I watch a lot of movies. I pretty much watch every movie that comes out that isn't wholesome family fun. Hell, I just watched Day and Knight for fuck's sake.

It's only like 20 bucks or something. Its not like my children will starve. (I have no children FYI.)

[Lithp]

That would be like getting rid of the giant squid-alien in Watchman. You just can't do it man!

Are you being faceitious?

Anyway, about the discussion of filler that I apparently missed, the thing is that a lot of the filler actually had a point to it. For instance, all of the episodes from Season 3 that are being deemed unnecessary were really the first to show the Fire Nation s people, as opposed to Card Carrying Villains. Oh sure, before that, you had a few goodies, like Jong-Jong & that one Fire Sage, but they were the minority.

Season 3 really gets into the whole idea about the public & how the war was sold to them.

As for what culture the Earthbenders were, they're based off of China.

[Premmy]

I watch a lot of movies. I pretty much watch every movie that comes out that isn't wholesome family fun. Hell, I just watched Day and Knight for fuck's sake.

It's only like 20 bucks or something. Its not like my children will starve. (I have no children FYI.)

Conversely It's twenty dollars and ninety minutes you could spend on something actually enjoyable....

[Funka Genocide]

Conversely It's twenty dollars and ninety minutes you coukd spend on something actually enjoyable....

I am an angry old man, I don't actually enjoy anything except listening to Baseball games on my transistor radio and complaining.

[Lumenskir]

Anyway, about the discussion of filler that I apparently missed, the thing is that a lot of the filler actually had a point to it. For instance, all of the episodes from Season 3 that are being deemed unnecessary were really the first to show the Fire Nation s people, as opposed to Card Carrying Villains. Oh sure, before that, you had a few goodies, like Jong-Jong & that one Fire Sage, but they were the minority.

Season 3 really gets into the whole idea about the public & how the war was sold to them.
While I agree that the Fire Nation needed to be fleshed out, the fact still stands that most of the episodes shunted off the Fire Nationers to the sidelines so that the episode could focus on repeating storylines from the first season.

Painted Lady = Imprisoned (Katara sidetracks the Gaang so that she can indulge in her savior complex)
The Puppetmaster = Jet (Katara gets enamored with someone until it's revealed that their methods for fighting the Fire Nation are too severe)
Sokka's Master = Bullshit (Seriously, after two seasons where Sokka has shown himself to be an integral part of the group, he gets butthurt when he can't put out an isolated fire and decides he needs a shiny new sword for some reason?)

And when they weren't repeating old characterizations, we get meandering little Adventure Town plots like The Runaway or The Headband, which wouldn't be so bad except for the fact that they keep bringing up how they need to get focused and buckle down because the comet is so close, ostensibly implying some dramatic deadline that gets undercut because the characters never act like they need to save the world anytime soon.

And all that without mentioning the kids they subsumed into the Gaang after the eclipse who then never talked.

[Fusionman]

Well first things first. I'm an unlucky one who will see it thanks to my dad (He never saw the show.) My preemptive opinion even though I haven't seen it yet. THOSE CANON RAPING SONS OF BITCHES! Warning:thoughts of the movie and its makers may change Now that that is out of the way. Let's look at what the main actors did before the movie.

Nicola Peltz AKA Katara: A Christmas movie. Oh and a Miley Cyrus music video.
Jackson Rathbone AKA Sokka: A Cullen from Twilight. The Cullen the Spoony One compared to a chihuahua.
Noah Ringer AKA Aang: NOTHING!
Dev Patel AKA Zuko: Slumdog Millionaire.

In other words when your best actor is the villain there's a problem.

[Premmy]

Roger Ebert doesn't like it. (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100630/REVIEWS/100639999)
I disagree about his assesment of the kind of actor needed for Zuko, but he's spot on for Ozai, Ozai should be the Hammiest Ham in the history of pork.If he thinks Avatar is post-apocalyptic, something went wrong

[Lumenskir]

A.V. Club gave it an F too, which is actually somewhat rare for them. (I mean, sure, Jonah Hex got an F recently, but Grown Ups escaped with just a D-)
I disagree about his assesment of the kind of actor needed for Zuko, but he's spot on for Ozai, Ozai should be the Hammiest Ham in the history of pork.
I dunno, I think in the absence of good characterization or compelling story, as you have here, it's probably best to go with the G.I. Joe route: All of the heroes are stoic and straightfaced, even when they're sucking the memories out of a dead guy's brain after he was killed in the crossfire of their super mecha suit Paris fight, while the bad guys awareness of how ridiculous the movie is can be measured in evil cackles.

Otherwise both sides are acting like the movie isn't bad and forces the audience to actively acknowledge it.
If he thinks Avatar is post-apocalyptic, something went wrong
Yeah, I've seen similar assumptions on other reviews, but it doesn't seem to be a universal (mis)conception. Maybe they fucked with the opening, or the mixed animal fauna gave them the wrong impression (there are still mixed animals, right?).

[Aerozord]

just thinking, did they just ruin the true nature of fire bending? Wasn't the reason they can generate their own because "fire is life" and thus they are all their own source of fire

[Nique]

it's probably best to go with the G.I. Joe route: All of the heroes are stoic and straightfaced, even when they're sucking the memories out of a dead guy's brain after he was killed in the crossfire of their super mecha suit Paris fight, while the bad guys awareness of how ridiculous the movie is can be measured in evil cackles.

No. No no no no no no no no no no no. Nothing can excuse G.I. Joe. 'Nothing' in triple-bold all-caps red underlined and italic font.

NOTHING


In other words when your best actor is the villain there's a problem.

Or, again, if you're going to cast unknowns at least have them look like the characters they are supposed to be portraying. Asif Mandvi's 'culturally-diverse' world excuse is a cop-out - either he doesn't care enough to pay attention or he doesn't want to ruffle the feathers of anyone who gave him a job.

[Archbio]

If he thinks Avatar is post-apocalyptic, something went wrong

It wouldn't be the first time Roger Ebert suffers some unexplainable comprehension failure about the story or premise of a film.

[Mike McC]

Everything I could say is summed up much better by this article.

FacePainting (http://splinterend.tumblr.com/post/749364670/facepainting)

[akaSM]

http://www.racebending.com/v3/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/castcomparison.png

Hmm, I don't really care about the race of the actors (asian, caucasian, whatever) but what bugs me is that at least they should try to match the look and skin color of the characters. Aang looks fine...except Aang =/= serious, at least most of the time :P. Zuko, well, the guy looks angry :P, but he has a bit too much hair :P. Katara and Sokka...they just don't feel right :raise:

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Yeah, M. Night Shyamalan's done. This is really building up negative tension and the movie isn't even out to the public. This is only going to hurt his career even more. Or out right destroy it. If I was in his shoes, I'd talk with Paramount and try to get the movie pulled from the theaters before things get even worse. Then apologize and even resign from my career as a director.

It'd be risky and I'd be out of a job. But it's better then living out my days as a someone who's accused of being racist.

[Mike McC]

Hmm, I don't really care about the race of the actors (asian, caucasian, whatever) but what bugs me is that at least they should try to match the look and skin color of the characters.I...

What.

[phil_]

I...

What.If a white guy wants to play Green Lantern John Stewart, he should get a tan, I think. Maybe?

[Archbio]

I think what akaSM is saying that if John Wayne could have had cosmetic surgery to look like Genghis Khan, The Conqueror would have been fine.

Or something.

[Mike McC]

It's not that I don't understand the statement.

I just don't think akaSM understands the statement.

[akaSM]

Yay, I confused someone on the internet :dance:. I was trying to say that IMO races doesn't really matter when you choose someone to play a character, as long as the actor somewhat resembles the character. The actor that plays Aang somewhat resembles him (smiling wouldn't hurt though :raise:), Katara and Sokka on the other hand have a darker skin. There should've been other actors that looked more like both.

TL;DR As long as they choose an actor that looks like the character, races don't really matter.

I hope this time I won't confuse anyone...but I think it'll happen anyway :sweatdrop

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I feel the same way but damn, 200+ years and we STILL keep using the word Race. there is only ONE race and that is the Human Race. We are different Nationalities not races.

ONLY ONE!

[Mike McC]

Yay, I confused someone on the internet :dance:. I was trying to say that IMO races doesn't really matter when you choose someone to play a character, as long as the actor somewhat resembles the character. The actor that plays Aang somewhat resembles him (smiling wouldn't hurt though :raise:), Katara and Sokka on the other hand have a darker skin. There should've been other actors that looked more like both.

TL;DR As long as they choose an actor that looks like the character, races don't really matter.

I hope this time I won't confuse anyone...but I think it'll happen anyway :sweatdropYou...

You do realize that things like skin color/tone tend to be racial traits. Right?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

You...

You do realize that things like skin color/tone tend to be racial traits. Right?

Judging by his post. He more then likely does.

[akaSM]

You...

You do realize that things like skin color/tone tend to be racial traits. Right?

Sorry, I got confused with the whole "nationalities, cultures and skin color" thing :sweatdrop

OK, I'll try one more time, I don't care about people's nationality, ethnicity or whatever, as long as the actor resembles the character.

Also, yeah, "race" doesn't sound that nice, as Mike said we're a single race, the human race; skin color is overhyped.

[Kim]

But skin color, which is a racial/ethnic trait, as well as all those other racial/ethnic traits, affects whether or not they resemble the character.

[akaSM]

But skin color, which is a racial/ethnic trait, as well as all those other racial/ethnic traits, affects whether or not they resemble the character.

You can have different skin colors even if you're of a certain ethnicity, they won't be radical differences but not every person of a certain ethnicity has the same skin color, the same goes for nationality. This time I left the word "race" because it will most likely tell you the skin color ;) (caucasian=light color, african=dark color).

[Archbio]

OK, I'll try one more time, I don't care about people's nationality, ethnicity or whatever, as long as the actor resembles the character.

I think people's confusion on this point is that somehow it seems as though if you were to cast an actor that resembles the character you'd tend to automatically default to actors of the same general racial origin. Race may be a social construct, but it tends to be framed by common inherited superficial physical characteristics. So it seems like if you're going for a physical match, you'd go for that first when it seems to stand out.

Now I could see why it wouldn't always be a high priority for the characters in an adaptation to look just like their counterpart in every way. Take the Kingpin in the Daredevil movie. One physical trait was deemed important: physical size. That the actor was black was really irrelevant: the Kingpin is fictional and comes from unspecified origins in a cosmopolitan society.

That's not true of all characters. The world of Avatar is explicitely a fantasy version of Asia, which is divided in four nations. Which adds to its detailed feel. The four nations play a role. If they had just randomly assigned the apparent origin of the actors to the characters that would have already undermined the archaic feel of the setting, but that's not even what happened here.

[Premmy]

You can have different skin colors even if you're of a certain ethnicity, they won't be radical differences but not every person of a certain ethnicity has the same skin color, the same goes for nationality. This time I left the word "race" because it will most likely tell you the skin color (caucasian=light color, african=dark color).

Race is basically "Ethnic groups a- through-f line up here cause ya'll have similar skin tones" plus cultural bullshit.

Edit: I think we all need to understand that Akasm is totally colorblind and has lots of black friends n'shit, and that's what he's trying to tell us.

[Mondt]

ITS SO FUCKING BAAAD UUUUUUUUUUUGH

Do not see this movie if you have any power over your curiosity. It is fucking awful. No characterization, no relationships fleshed out, so much shit is left out or fucking changed, acting is bad, script is bad, it's really bad and this is coming from a guy who appreciated Dragonball Evolution.

[Kim]

ITS SO FUCKING BAAAD UUUUUUUUUUUGH

WE TOLD YOU

WE FUCKING TOLD YOU

[Premmy]

Someone whip me up a suitable happy-dance pic.

[Ecks]

I guess I'm gonna be that one guy that's still pissing in the wind long after everyone else has drawn up their trousers and gone home.

I personally don't give a shit whether or not anybody is anything or nothing.

If the guy can't act his way out of a paper bag, then it doesn't matter if he resembles the character or not. Obviously, Night fucked up big time and the movie sucks. Which is disappointing. Did someone say Firebenders can no longer bend their element at will? They can create their element from their inner fire (aka their internal energy) which is why they're so dangerous: they can create and manipulate the fire at will. So help me, if they made it so that Firebenders need an already existing source of fire just to bend, I will hereby and henceforth condemn James Cameron and everyone involved in bastardizing this blasphemy of an attempt at an adaptation straight to Heresy and hope they enjoy being burned for all eternity in a box together.

[Premmy]

Okay, Um, everyone DOES know James Cameron had nothing to do with this flick, right? I mean, the joke was funny, but some of ya'll seem serious.
Edit:

And I never viewed the firebenders as more dangerous than any other, just more willing to go out and fight a war, plus more technologically advanced. It took Sozin's comet for them to take down the Air Nomads. In a Fight, say, on a beach so everyone is equal, It'd most likely come out even.

[Ecks]

I just don't like James Cameron. I may spare Night, because I find him amusing.

But then Airbender failed on a massive scale...

Hmm... decisions, decisions...

[Mondt]

WE TOLD YOU

WE FUCKING TOLD YOULook man, I'm okay with shit being bad. It's good for a chuckle and a silly conversation after the movie but I got home twenty minutes ago and I'm still finding shit wrong with it.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

[Ecks]

Mondt, the best advice I can offer is either to have about six to twelve minutes of at the very least moderately pleasureable sexual intercourse... or find some other thing to occupy the ramblings of your brain, because dwelling on such things is the quick and easy path to madness.

MADNESS, I TELL YOU! REPENT!

[Archbio]

Edit: and I never viewed the firebeders as more dangerous than any other, just more willing to go out and fight a war, plus more technologically advanced.

Actually, that might have been a way that the whole "no fire creation" could have worked, if they had made the Fire Nation's technology as much an improvement on their firebending than the reverse: improved ways to carry, supply and maintain fire sources through their weird steam tech.

But there's still no real reason for the change except maybe it's more symmetrical that way?

[Premmy]

But there's still no real reason for the change except maybe it's more symmetrical that way?
It isn't as long as airbenders are around
Fire= Makes their Own fire
Air= Makes their own air
Earth: needs Existing rock or dirt
Water= Needs existing water.

Knock out one and it becomes SUPER unbalanced.

This must've been fanwankery on Shyamalan's part, if you ask me.
Actually, that might have been a way that the whole "no fire creation" could have worked, if they had made the Fire Nation's technology as much an improvement on their firebending than the reverse: improved ways to carry, supply and maintain fire sources through their weird steam tech.
I don't think you need magic steampunk to invent a lighter.

[akaSM]

I think we all need to understand that Akasm is totally colorblind and has lots of black friends n'shit, and that's what he's trying to tell us.


That's partially true, when someone tells me to describe a person, unless that person's skin is either "too dark" or "too light" I have trouble with the description. But it's only with skin colors, I can see colors fine and stuff.

So, the movie sucks, huh? It seems skin colors were the least of our problems. At least this thread is great :D

[Mondt]

HEY GUYS AANG ACTUALLY HAS A REALLY FUCKING LONG TIME TO LEARN ALL THE ELEMENTS ITS OKAY THERES NO RUSH ANYMORE.

[Premmy]

That's partially true, when someone tells me to describe a person, unless that person's skin is either "too dark" or "too light" I have trouble with the description. But it's only with skin colors, I can see colors fine and stuff.

So, the movie sucks, huh? It seems skin colors were the least of our problems. At least this thread is great :D

Man, It just doesn't pay to make fun of people these days.....

[Kyanbu The Legend]

ITS SO FUCKING BAAAD UUUUUUUUUUUGH

Do not see this movie if you have any power over your curiosity. It is fucking awful. No characterization, no relationships fleshed out, so much shit is left out or fucking changed, acting is bad, script is bad, it's really bad and this is coming from a guy who appreciated Dragonball Evolution.

We warned you.

Now you can never unsee it.

[Mondt]

We warned you and still went in say it.

Now you can never unsee it.I figured this thread was just three pages of bullshit race problems because that's what it boiled down to last time and thas what it looked like happened here. Like, this forum is usually super predictable in how things work, so I figured Hey, whatevz, no reason to read it.

I was so wrooooooooong

[Premmy]

I figured this thread was just three pages of bullshit race problems because that's what it boiled down to last time and thas what it looked like happened here. Like, this forum is usually super predictable in how things work, so I figured Hey, whatevz, no reason to read it.

I was so wrooooooooong

Yes you were, yes indeed you were.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Hopefully you can get some sleep tonight Mondt.

[Archbio]

Air= Makes their own air

They do? I had the impression that they just bended the air that's... always everywhere around.

I don't think you need magic steampunk to invent a lighter.


I said weird, not magic. As in the same kind of thing they already had.

I'm not saying that it's not way unbalanced to nerf the firebenders like that, though.

[Premmy]

They do? I had the impression that they just bended the air that's... always everywhere around.
Prolly, but it ends up having the same results either way, you can't take an Air bender or a firebender away from their element.


I said weird, not magic. As in the same kind of thing they already had.
They had jet skis, tanks, and giant robo-caterpiller drills, that shit was magic.

[Mike McC]

I believe this thread has given me a brain aneurysm. I can feel the blood ballooning up inside of my frontal lobe and soon... soon everything will be fine.

Basically we can't start talking about being colorblind until first the sociological hurdles illustrated by this whitewashing (let alone the feminist ramifications by some of the changes made in the movie) are first cleared. You can't win the heat by running around the hurdles, you have to go over them, defeat them.

[Premmy]

Basically we can't start talking about being colorblind
I can't talk about being a douchebag?

[Archbio]

Prolly, but it ends up having the same results either way, you can't take an Air bender or a firebender away from their element.

Yes, it is a huge limitation to put on the firebenders, and like you said earlier in the thread the elements are supposed to be balanced. Also, it really can't have the same feel, having the firebenders just mold fire like it was a passive thing. It's fire, stupid! It made perfect sense to have it emphasized as something that's created out of something else and expanded outward.

Something that's fueled.

They had jet skis, tanks, and giant robo-caterpiller drills, that shit was magic.

Oddly enough, the only thing I had trouble buying was the jet skis.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I'm still on the Robo-Caterpiller Drill.

They really shouldn't even have them given the time period that probably takes place in.

[akaSM]

They do? I had the impression that they just bended the air that's... always everywhere around.

That actually makes sense :aaa:. I always thought they made air out of...air (i.e. nothing) like the firebenders.

I'm not saying that it's not way unbalanced to nerf the firebenders like that, though.

Yeah, isn't that "you can create your own fire" one of the things that made the fire nation dangerous? They have technology too so, if they can build a giant drill-thing, they should be able to get a pocket fire creating gizmo.

Man, It just doesn't pay to make fun of people these days.....

I like you too prems :3

[Mondt]

It was just like a single serving version of the drill they used at Ba... Ba-sing... Ba...zing... Ba... fuck.

[Mike McC]

I can't talk about being a douchebag?Oh, I am quite sure you are completely qualified to talk about being a douchebag.

[Premmy]

Yeah, isn't that "you can create your own fire" one of the things that made the fire nation dangerous?.
Eh, not really, because if I want to kick a firebender in the nuts bad enough, he's getting kicked in the nuts
Airbender: Float away!
Earthbender: rock wall!
Waterbender: Ice wall! Tidal Wave!
Firebender: FIRE! He dodged it! FIRE! He dodged it.. Oh I know! FIREWALL!.......THICK CLOTHES! CRAP!
They have technology too so, if they can build a giant drill-thing, they should be able to get a pocket fire creating gizmo
This, the evil overlords, and Sozin's comet is what got them their power.

[akaSM]

Eh, not really, because if I want to kick a firebender in the nuts bad enough, he's getting kicked in the nuts
Airbender: Float away!
Earthbender: rock wall!
Waterbender: Ice wall! Tidal Wave!
Firebender: FIRE! He dodged it! FIRE! He dodged it.. Oh I know! FIREWALL!.......THICK CLOTHES! CRAP!

Still, at least the waterbender should have a water source nearby, and once that water is gone, no more waterbending. I know there are other ways for getting water but, I don't think they use them often.

The earthbenders have it easier, there's a reason this planet is called Earth :P.

Airbending seems to be more on the defensive side.

This, the evil overlords, and Sozin's comet is what got them their power.

IIRC, it gave them an extra power boost. The pocket gizmo is for the movie firebenders because fire isn't like water, air or earth; you cannot find it under "normal" circumstances.

What I don't get is how could the movie's crippled firebenders beat the other tribes without a way to create fire by themselves. They're not as dangerous as the anime (?) firebenders since they need fire, an element that isn't easily found, waiting to be "bended" like the other 3

[Premmy]

Still, at least the waterbender should have a water source nearby, and once that water is gone, no more waterbending. I know there are other ways for getting water but, I don't think they use them often.
That's the point though, each bending style has an achilles heel,
Fire: All offense, no deffense
Air: All defense, no offense
Water: Must add water
Earth: must add rocks


IIRC, it gave them an extra power boost. The pocket gizmo is for the movie firebenders because fire isn't like water, air or earth; you cannot find it under "normal" circumstances.

What I don't get is how could the movie's crippled firebenders beat the other tribes without a way to create fire by themselves. They're not as dangerous as the anime (?) firebenders since they need fire, an element that isn't easily found, waiting to be "bended" like the other 3

What I mean is their ability to generate their own element wasn't what put them in charge in the first place, but all the other factors, such as their technology, and Sozin's comet. I also find it interesting that noone else got in a conquering mood, but that's probably because Kyoshi beat that notion out of the Earth Kingdom's head.

[Nique]

I figured this thread was just three pages of bullshit race problems because that's what it boiled down to last time and thas what it looked like happened here. Like, this forum is usually super predictable in how things work, so I figured Hey, whatevz, no reason to read it.

Well, no one had seen it yet so we were all sort of just speculating. But uh, yeah just to confirm your assessment:

This movie was terrible in almost every way. The whole theater cheered at the opening title, and a total of 4 people in the back row clapped for about 3/4ths of a second when it was over. I'm pretty sure there was some mild booing too but it was mostly a kind of saddened silence at the utter let down. Pretty unique movie-going experience, especially for a sold-out midnight premier.

Premonitions if you want to lecture everyone on the whole racisim thing I say go for it. Whereas Avatar was debatable IMO, this was like some massively inexcusable bullshit. What the hell are you harping on about the bending for that was like the least of this movie's problems! I mean damn. DAMN. Like, I was all like 'benefit of the doubt over here' but UGH. UGH UGH UGH.

5 Highlights from this movie;

1) 3D is awful and pointless still .
2) Bad writing is bad. Bad directing is worse.
3) This is movie is racist as I don't know what but it is HELLA racist.
4) Random mispronunciation of EVERY proper noun?!?!?!
5) Even a movie THIS awful cannot ruin Uncle Iroh. (Shaun Toub actually made his role work, somehow, in this mess of a film.)

So on the directing/writing/ acting: The kids in this were, eh, fine. But the dialog at literally any given point was either stilted, repetitive, blatant, or completely out of place. Sometimes all at once. I can't believe the entire main cast was the exact same level of terrible, so I'm thinking this is a sign of awful directing and writing. I have no idea how they put this thing together. It wasn't even a re-telling of the first season it was like... Like they took random 5 minute clips from every episode of the first season, took out everything remotely clever or enjoyable about those clips and mashed them together into 2 hours. Terrible or non-existent characterization and dialog, abuse of narration, and loads of other issues.

Katarra: "Aang, you're angry!" Aang: "... I'm angry!"

Yue: "We believe in our beliefs just as much as they believe in their believing beliefs that they believe in!"

Me:"ARRRGRGG SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!!"

I also liked that literally anyone important, not even just the main protagonists, in this movie were white. Except for Princess Yue who fills the role of 'magical negro' here, and even that was poorly conceived. I mean, what? Katarra and Sokka are the only white people in their village? REALLY? I thought maybe this 'culturally diverse' world would mean that we'd see an actual mix of races in each nation and that would maybe in some way excuse the casting of white people as the main protagonists. Nope. The southern water tribe is a helpless group of Eskimos. The earth villages are portrayed by an all-Asian cast. These equally helpless dirt-farmers, despite their obvious ability to defeat the weak-ass fire nation soldiers guarding them, for some reason, needed Aang to inspire them to rebellion. No Jet, No Kyoshi warriors. EDIT: No Boomy!

I had some hope at this point for the Northern Water Tribe. That we might see some important characters played by someone other than white people. Nope!

The film is inconsistent in it's determination on whether the different nations are made up of an ethnically mixed group of people or not, but very consistent in it's portrayal of colored people as pathetic or evil.

Iroh is still awesome. The one saving grace.

PS: I would be surprised if they can justify a sequel to this, let alone an entire trilogy. Let me just reiterate: Even if the racisim thing doesn't bother you or you think it's debatable whatever. This movie was flat-out terrible and is in no way a good companion to the series. Don't see it.

[Solid Snake]

http://www.reelviews.net/php_review_template.php?identifier=2110

...I feel terrible for any true fans of the original anime.
(Fortunately, I am not one of them.)

[Nique]

...I feel terrible for any true fans of the original anime.

Don't. The series is fine by itself and although I a bummed at being out 28 dollars for a really bad movie, I'm gonna be just fine re-watching the show.

I feel bad for anyone whose interest in 'Avatar' was sparked by the film and will likely NOT watch the show now becuase the movie was so damned awful.

[Azisien]

I've been constantly reminding myself and everyone around me how horrible this movie is going to be. It's not going to be enough, is it?

As a reference point, would you rather watch The Last Airbender or any Twilight movie?

[BloodyMage]

I'd still rather watch The Last Airbender.

[Nique]

Ugh, gun to my head? I'm comfortable with Twilight being terrible so I could conceivably derive some enjoyment from it in an incredibly round about way. Airbender, not so much.

[Premmy]

I actually hear that the Movies are better than the books somehow.
Premonitions if you want to lecture everyone on the whole racisim thing I say go for it.
I'm just gonna talk about the original series, anbody else want to talk about that?

[Kim]

You know what? I'm glad it's so bad. I really am. This, hopefully, means that they won't do follow-up movies, which means we only have to "see" the show butchered once. (See is in quotes because I honestly don't think the movie is worth even stealing just so I can be a pretentious jackoff) Beyond that, think about if the movie had been vaguely decent on its own grounds, but still terrible compared to the show. People: "That Last Airbender movie was pretty good!" Avatar Fans: "It got so much stuff wrong and cut out so many awesome parts. It really sucked." People: "NERD!"

[Azisien]

I... :(

Okay, Avatar is a fantastic show.

You could cut stuff out and stunt it a bit in movie form but still make it great.

Or good.

Or decent.

Or passable.

Or bearable.

THIS?! ARRRGGHHH!!!!

[Premmy]

Differences betweeen the flick and the show (http://www.racebending.com/v3/general/the-last-airbender-film-changes-from-the-cartoon-series/)

[Nique]

I'm just gonna talk about the original series, anbody else want to talk about that?

I'm hoping the hidden-text isn't directed at me and if it is I think we should have a PM chat so I can apologize for anything that might have come out that way. For the record: The issues around this movie + the last big discussion we had have given me a slightly better understanding of your perspective. Honestly I think any disagreement we would have at this point would be largely about semantics.

Damn, here I was trying to be all agreeable n' shit. Premonitions, I AM CONCERNED THAT I HAVE OFFENDED YOU PLEASE CONFIRM OR DENY SO I CAN STOP FREAKING OUT AND GET BACK TO HATING THIS MOVIE.

Also I'm watching my Daily Show recordings and am trying to figure out if your avatar (HA!) was in an episode I somehow missed or if someone on the internet is just having a laugh.

People: "That Last Airbender movie was pretty good!" Avatar Fans: "It got so much stuff wrong and cut out so many awesome parts. It really sucked." People: "NERD!"

It still would have been a better movie I'm not seeing how that is the worse option. As it is they pandered to the lowest denominator, tricky to actually pull off becuase it's easy to tip the scale too far and wind up with... well, this movie. I mean, my 9 year old brother in law fell asleep and he's not that discerning. This film should have glued him to the seat. Instead he fell asleep on the floor and got glued there (cause it was a movie theater and there was gum on it).

Did I mention that 3D still pisses me off too?

[Premmy]

I'm hoping the hidden-text isn't directed at me and if it is I think we should have a PM chat so I can apologize for anything that might have come out that way. For the record: The issues around this movie + the last big discussion we had have given me a slightly better understanding of your perspective. Honestly I think any disagreement we would have at this point would be largely about semantics.

Damn, here I was trying to be all agreeable n' shit. Premonitions, I AM CONCERNED THAT I HAVE OFFENDED YOU PLEASE CONFIRM OR DENY SO I CAN STOP FREAKING OUT AND GET BACK TO HATING THIS MOVIE.

Also I'm watching my Daily Show recordings and am trying to figure out if your avatar (HA!) was in an episode I somehow missed or if someone on the internet is just having a laugh.

It's more of a general thing, as I don't even remember the particulars of the last time we butted heads, but you probably contributed to my overall distaste for discussing this shit in a public forum so you can feel bad about that if you want;)

Avvy:
The Firelord robes look pretty obviously shopped, so I'm gonna say it's an internet thing

[Azisien]

Well this just adds a little more to the suck-pile. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNl3j3Snkbs) Apparently they don't even pronounce names right?

[Nique]

Well this just adds a little more to the suck-pile. Apparently they don't even pronounce names right?

Did you not read my list? I mean, yeah it's 'Aaaaaaaang' and 'Soooooka' and dammit this is an English word 'Aaaavatar'. Top to bottom anything you could find wrong with a movie about Avatar, this movie does it.

but you probably contributed to my overall distaste for discussing this shit in a public forum so you can feel bad about that if you want

I do! Even in disagreement on subjects like this (I guess anything controversial) I don't think someone should be shamed into just not talking about it anymore. Multiple perspectives are important. It's not always easy to remember to include an 'but I appreciate your perspective and it has enlightened me somewhat' in a debate, but a lot of discussions could probably use a lot more of that.

[Lithp]

Wait, doesn't "Avatar" come from Hinduism?

You know what I find hilarious about this? Shama made Katara out to be the useless sidekick. There was an entire Aesop episode about sexism. It is, of course, absent from the movie.

So...what if someone's ass enough to let him make a movie out of Book 2? Toft & Azula can't be half-assed like that.

[BloodyMage]

I actually hear that the Movies are better than the books somehow.

I'd rather not be told I'm an over-sensitive Negro who looks for racism where it isn't by priveleged white kids I usually tell myself are intelligent people, thanks.

Ugh, gun to my head? I'm comfortable with Twilight being terrible so I could conceivably derive some enjoyment from it in an incredibly round about way. Airbender, not so much.

I don't know, at least if I watch this I can comfort myself that it's just a bad adaptation and I can go home and console myself with the original product and how awesome it is. I can't do that with Twilight because if I go home and read the original, it's still crap.

[Premmy]

I do! Even in disagreement on subjects like this (I guess anything controversial) I don't think someone should be shamed into just not talking about it anymore.
I think you're confusing shame with "Fuck this, these douchebags are stupid"

[Lumenskir]

Toft & Azula can't be half-assed like that.
It's already been all but confirmed that Toph will be played by a sassy black kid (or possibly a giant Samoan, something to bring in "all the cultures"), while I'm taking a guess that Azula will be portrayed by a CGI life-sized Fleshlight, mostly on the basis that if this movie does so bad and the studio still gives the sequel a greenlight, literally nobody will be making sure it makes sense.

As regards Twilight v. This: I read a review that said that the newest Twilight had about 20 minutes of decent vampire v. werewolf fighting, so that's about 40 minutes more than what Shimmy is offering.

[Amake]

I'd go with Twilight, it's at least somewhat resisting the standard movie template by having a girl for the main character. Nominally.

If you got to choose between two movies you don't want to see, consider what message you're giving by paying for them. :3

[Azisien]

I'd go with Twilight, it's at least somewhat resisting the standard movie template by having a girl for a main character. Nominally.

If you got to choose between two movies you don't want to see, consider what message you're giving by paying for them. :3

Sadly my tickets cannot be refunded. I am considering scalping at the theater for $1 less. But seriously, who would buy these tickets?

[BloodyMage]

The only reason I'll be paying to see this is if a whole group of us go, then we can rip on it afterwards.

[POS Industries]

I'm just gonna talk about the original series, anbody else want to talk about that?
Nothing to worry about now, but there was some sort of BBCode glitch in the swap tag that made you look like a giant asshole, so I went ahead and fixed it.

Because I know you're not a giant asshole so obviously it had to be some sort of forum code malfunction.

[Drownball-Champ]

I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Just saw it. The movie was decent. Just because it doesn't live up to the awesomeness that is the series doesn't make it bad. Does it suffer from bad acting and mispronunciations? Yeah it does. However the bending in the movie was awesome.

I don't, however, suggest that you spend the $9 to see it in theaters. Rent it for $3.99 later or watch it on HBO.

[Viridis]

It seems critics in general have shunned this movie. (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/last_airbender/)

[Premmy]

Nothing to worry about now, but there was some sort of BBCode glitch in the swap tag that made you look like a giant asshole, so I went ahead and fixed it.
Might wanna go ahead and doctor the quotes too

Because I know you're not a giant asshole
Who told you THAT bullshit?

[Azisien]

So I just got back.....








I'D RATHER WATCH TWILIGHT.

[POS Industries]

Might wanna go ahead and doctor the quotes too
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Who told you THAT bullshit?
I live in a fantasy world.

[Premmy]

I live in a fantasy world.
Can I cast you as an asian guy in the NPF movie, then?

[Archbio]

I want to be cast as a sassy black kid.

[Premmy]

Aren't you already a sassy black kid?

[Archbio]

I can't tell, I'm colorblind.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Aren't you already a sassy black kid?

Wait, woah, what? Here I thought he was an ashmatic Mexican grandmother!

[POS Industries]

Can I cast you as an asian guy in the NPF movie, then?
Make it asian girl and you have a deal, sir.

[TIME BOMB]

sooo just got back from seeing it. Gotta say.. Its a lil dissapointing. Sokka sucked and the movie really couldve been at least an hour longer so it wouldnt feel as rushed.

[Nique]

I think you're confusing shame with "Fuck this, these douchebags are stupid"

Ouch.

Anyway.

I'D RATHER WATCH TWILIGHT.

You should really have listened, but at least you can commiserate with us now.

[Archbio]

I had hoped that I wouldn't have to make the lame follow up joke about me "seeing" color through my feet myself.

[Nique]

Ah that reminds me - Toph's jokes about being blind were the best. Still my favorite character from the series.

[Premmy]

I had hoped that I wouldn't have to make the lame follow up joke about me "seeing" color through my feet myself.

You heard it first, Archbio goes around kicking black people!

[Kim]

Ah that reminds me - Toph's jokes about being blind were the best. Still my favorite character from the series.

I think part of the reason they were so great was that you always pretty much forgot she was blind until she reminded you.

[bluestarultor]

I think part of the reason they were so great was that you always pretty much forgot she was blind until she reminded you.

Really, though, it's less that she's blind and more that her eyes just don't work. She "sees" just fine.

[Premmy]

She can't see colors, she can't see things when they're not touching the ground, She can't read, she can't figure out details. She's more blind than Daredevil

[Azisien]

You should really have listened, but at least you can commiserate with us now.


My pre-ordered tickets couldn't be refunded. Damage was done. I have now been reborn as a prophet for the destruction of this movie and everyone involved.

[Lithp]

sooo just got back from seeing it. Gotta say.. Its a lil dissapointing. Sokka sucked and the movie really couldve been at least an hour longer so it wouldnt feel as rushed.

You want it to be LONGER?

Had the option to go see it the other night. I figure I'll wait until it's in the dollar theater so I don't waste as much money.

[Azisien]

You want it to be LONGER?

Had the option to go see it the other night. I figure I'll wait until it's in the dollar theater so I don't waste as much money.


Spend that dollar on like....a really cheap paint roller. It would be more fun.

[Lithp]

This is like a rite of passage. I have to face the awful. I don't like it, but it must be done.

[Archbio]

You heard it first, Archbio goes around kicking black people!

I really didn't see that one coming.

I liked the space sword, if only for the moment when it was lost.

[PyrosNine]

Pyras jus' got back from being exiled from his room (FLEAS! THE BLOOD SUCKING BASTARDS) and thus has use of his own computer again, and the completed Golden Sun episode I was gonna post last week.

But I don't know if I wanna touch it now because Psynergy is an awful lot like bending and I have had my soul sucked out for a two hour duration that someone paid -70 bucks for my family to watch, because General Admission for three is $30 and Shamalamadingdong owes me $40 bucks worth of my life that I will never get back.

I physically hurt during the watching, I wanted to leave and sneak into a better movie, but my folks held me back ("We paid 10 dollars for this! Tell me one thing that you don't like about the movie!") and I ended up watching the entire suckfest.

I wondered if they gave Night like, a huge sum of money and he spent overpaid 98% percent of it on special effects, spent 1% on casting, and the final percent on hookers and blow. Then he leafed around his couch for loose change and used that to pay college students to pen the script.

I managed to survive it by mentally writing Avatar fanfiction, as no matter how poor my own skill with a pen is and how low fanfiction sinks, it was better than what I was watching.

It started with four benders from each nation, and it was unclear who was the Avatar because all four of them were pretty good, but it endd up being the fire one who was really a native earthbender, just to throw the reader (me) off.

It was about this time the real movie got to the Northern Water tribe and I started dying, and the resultant decay of my mind turned the whole thing into a slash fic pairing Movie Iroh with the Earth King, with the bear watching.

Then the movie ended and I noticed how shakey ONG's form was in the final shot, and yet they kept the shot on him for like, forever when they could have freezeframed it and not look so goofy.

And then we went to BAM where I read the Avatar graphic novel and things were made better, and bought a Discworld Graphic Novel, and the taste of blood left my mouth with the aid of a coke slurpee.

Though i'm pretty sure I'm still dying, as I just saw a commercial for the flick come on and I felt it in my chest like a heartattack.

Wait, woah, what? Here I thought he was an asthmatic Mexican grandmother!

No, I'm pretty sure that was me, only instead of a grandmother I'm just a girly english major, which is pretty close. But I'm totally mexican. Well, Welsh-Mexican. A spicy cracker, you could say.

[Nikose Tyris]

This movie was a fucking amazing one. I'm glad I saw it and every part of the story was just vibrant and alive.


Yes it strayed from the 'source material' but guys, seriously. C'mon. Everything strays and nothing does the source material justice.

I learned this after the utter loss of Tom Bombadil from LOTR.

[Odjn]

This movie was a fucking amazing one. I'm glad I saw it and every part of the story was just vibrant and alive.


Yes it strayed from the 'source material' but guys, seriously. C'mon. Everything strays and nothing does the source material justice.

I learned this after the utter loss of Tom Bombadil from LOTR.

Bombadil was literally the worst thing in the entire LOTR/Hobbit series. By far.

[Premmy]

Bombadil was literally the worst thing in the entire LOTR/Hobbit series. By far.

http://memegenerator.net/Foghorn-Leghorn/ImageMacro/887826/Foghorn-Leghorn-Thats-a-joke-son-You-missed-it-Flew-right-by-ya.jpg
Fo-rizzles

[POS Industries]

This movie was a fucking amazing one. I'm glad I saw it and every part of the story was just vibrant and alive.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/krustypunch.gif

[Mike McC]

This movie was a fucking amazing one. I'm glad I saw it and every part of the story was just vibrant and alive.


Yes it strayed from the 'source material' but guys, seriously. C'mon. Everything strays and nothing does the source material justice.

I learned this after the utter loss of Tom Bombadil from LOTR.You are literally the worst troll I've ever seen.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm not trolling. I adored Tom Bombadil and I loved this movie. I'm being serious. (I'm sorry Prem. Excepting the stupid "The bad guys are BROWN everyone else is WHITE" Racist Tag on it all, the movie was really entertaining.)

[Mike McC]

I'm not trolling. I adored Tom Bombadil and I loved this movie. I'm being serious. (I'm sorry Prem. Excepting the stupid "The bad guys are BROWN everyone else is WHITE" Racist Tag on it all, the movie was really entertaining.)Worst. Troll. Ever.

[Archbio]

Even Tom Bombadil hates Tom Bombadil in the books.

It's all there in the subtext.

[Nique]

I'm not trolling. I adored Tom Bombadil and I loved this movie. I'm being serious. (I'm sorry Prem. Excepting the stupid "The bad guys are BROWN everyone else is WHITE" Racist Tag on it all, the movie was really entertaining.)

If I may...

[Azisien]

I wondered if they gave Night like, a huge sum of money and he spent overpaid 98% percent of it on special effects, spent 1% on casting, and the final percent on hookers and blow. Then he leafed around his couch for loose change and used that to pay college students to pen the script.

This theory doesn't hold up because college students could pen much better scripts.

[Nikose Tyris]

I realize the fire nation is supposed to be white and everyone else is supposed to be brown/asian and yes I found the switch around completely retarded. I am agreeing with that. However I think the fire nation actors were perfectly cast.

[Azisien]

I realize the fire nation is supposed to be white and everyone else is supposed to be brown/asian and yes I found the switch around completely retarded. I am agreeing with that. However I think the fire nation actors were perfectly cast.

Troll or brain damage perhaps?

[Premmy]

I'm sorry Prem
Why?
I realize the fire nation is supposed to be white and everyone else is supposed to be brown/asian and yes I found the switch around completely retarded.
There were white people in the Cartoon? was it the cabbage man? Foamy? I can't remember any.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Troll or brain damage perhaps?

I'm looking for a difference but not finding one.

[Archbio]

There were white people in the Cartoon? was it the cabbage man? Foamy? I can't remember any.

Momo was white.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm neither, can't a person enjoy a movie because it was a good movie? And not pick it apart because it

A) Doesn't follow a manga or TV show I don't watch

or

B) because of a handful of scripting issues?

Overall, this was on par with the new Karate Kid movie- and I really liked that one too.


Edit: Not WHITE WHITE But obviously significantly more pale/'western' then the other nations. That much I'm confident on, after seeing maybe 3 episodes of the Anime.

Edit2: I'm apologizing for messing with your great shot at Odjn.

[Azisien]

There were white people in the Cartoon? was it the cabbage man? Foamy? I can't remember any.

I always figured some/all of the Earth Kingdom was caucasian, but hell, it's all pretty damn Asian-inspired they're all just different shades of Asian probably.

I'm neither, can't a person enjoy a movie because

No.

[Mike McC]

Troll or brain damage perhaps?Terrible troll. Completely transparent. Probably made of cellophane. (Though, he at least can get stinking drunk much faster!)

I mean, just HOW high do you even have to BE just to DO something like that........

[POS Industries]

I'm not trolling.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/chimp.png

(I'm sorry Prem. Excepting the stupid "The bad guys are BROWN everyone else is WHITE" Racist Tag on it all, the movie was really entertaining.)
Yes, because Prem was the only one bothered by it, or has really even been particularly vocal about it at all. Though I bet being the one singled out and apologized to about any concerns regarding race relations is something that bothers the ever-loving shit out of him--as it would anyone--and maybe it would be great if folks quit doing it.

[Azisien]

In full seriousness, I'm not even hating on it because it's related (Is it?) to Avatar: The Last Airbender. Any hype I had for the movie were dashed like two days before I even saw it. My expectations were as low as they can possibly be for a movie. It was still the worst movie I've ever seen in my life, ever.

I want to dissect Nikose's brain.

[Premmy]

In full seriousness, I'm not even hating on it because it's related (Is it?) to Avatar: The Last Airbender. Any hype I had for the movie were dashed like two days before I even saw it.
Racebending aside, My hype about the connection to Avatar went out the window when I heard electric guitar in the trailer.

[Nikose Tyris]

Yes and when I show that my apology was in a poorly placed sentence and not about the racism it's the perfect time to bring up the thing I already clarified. You're still my favourite POS. <3


http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/zuko10.jpg <- Anime

http://i44.tinypic.com/33aqbdj.png < - Movie


That stood out to me as pretty starkly different. Yes they are all themes of asian but with the constant "West" references, I made an assumption, and apparently that's singled me out to get picked apart in a thread where apparently I'm the only person who can look at a movie, see and agree "Yeah those are some awful issues" and still enjoy a movie? Good to know, I'll refrain from saying I like anything anymore that disagrees with the crowd.


Edit: Apparently I just have terrible taste. Carry on, then?

Edit2: God damn it why am I always gettin' called a racist/implied that I said something racist. I need to seperate my sentences with tags and quotes to be sure there's no issues with this anymore, damnit.

[POS Industries]

Well, Nik, what did you think was actually good about it?

I ask because I really really want to know what you saw that apparently no one else on Earth did, regardless of familiarity with the original work or not.

[Premmy]

Edit: Apparently I just have terrible taste. Carry on, then?
That's really what this is, I watch All television ever everyday that's kinda really racist, and judge it on it's own merits. Pretty much every review goes "bad acting, rushed story, too much talky, not enough movie"

[Nikose Tyris]

Well, Nik, what did you think was actually good about it?

I thought the actors they picked for the lead roles were fantastic, excluding the Fire Lord.

Prince Zuko played his role amazingly well- the scar was severely underplayed and wasn't nearly as large/noticable as it probably could have been, but the character played out the emotions I expected from him and that alone was fantastic.

Iroh came across with this fantastically strong personality, really an Obi-wan or protective Uncle feel to him and since that's just what he was, it was perfect. I enjoyed everything about him, especially towards the end of the movie.

Aang was too old and not nearly as playful as I was expecting, but despite the terrible casting here, he did fantastic with being convincing in his role- and Shaymalayakamehameha did some great scene cuts at the end that made most of the group I was with actually tear up a little bit. [expecting insults with this line quoted.] Aang wasn't perfect but the actor salvaged the role very well.

Katara, I know nothing about from the source material at all- but what we got was a responsible younger sister who advanced in her water bending talent and showed a few good training/bending shots alongside Aang and those were really neat to see. The Actress was mediocre and she felt like she was played down in the script.

Katara's brother I can't even remember his name but he was such a mook in the film, excepting 1 time, with the boomerang toss, that I have nothing good to say about him.

The shot of Zuko's sister was really fuckin' impressive. She was in the film for maybe two scenes, probably not more then 5 minutes of screen time total at all- and she managed to leave a serious intimidation factor that goes beyond "Oh, she's a little girl, that means she can probably kill everyone in the room." (I have since had it confirmed that, yes, she probably can.)

As for the plot, it was a hacked together conglomeration of Book 1 or whatever, and despite taking out a lot of filler and a lot of great story tokens ((Like changing Zuko's fight with Katara from something long and epic into "whoops looked like I knocked your ass out, my bad!" which I got to watch on MariusTwilight's computer when I got home, and holy shit guys that was so much better then what we got in the movie)) But overall the story does it's job of telling what's going on and where we can expect Book 2 and Book 3 to go. M Night is already on record saying he wants to do / is already doing those, right? Because just dropping the issue at book 1 and not finishing everything would be horrible at this point.


Actually, the last half hour of the movie was severely changed from the Manga/Anime and while I didn't know until afterwards, I think a few of the changes were good, the rest were most definitely bad.


Overall, the movie was definitely a 7 in my books. Good enough to take a date to, bad enough that you won't regret making out the whole movie.


I think I got all the spoiler tags in the right places, if not, I'm sorry!



Edit: Also, the movie was probably really pretty, but since I have a lazy eye and had to watch it in 3D, I didn't get to make out most of that. All I got to see was blurry people and blurry effects, so I was disappointed with that.

or for anyone that didn't understand that, Lazy eyes mean 3D glasses are worthless.

[Lithp]

Do you notice that, in your explanation, the vast majority of things you "liked" about the movie, you basically say, "That was terrible, but it could have been worse"? 'Cause that's a bad sign.

[Nikose Tyris]

Honestly, no. I didn't just say what I liked, I pointed out things I didn't like as well. Overall, a movie is made for me by how well an Actor plays a character and how well the script was written for said character. Visuals are just an aside. Most of the major players in the movie were fantastically done, and despite M Night having the script touch his hands I think he did a good job overall.

Also I seriously think his daughter helped him heavily with this- he claimed in the little news blurb I read that he only did the movie cause his daughter was watching the show and made him watch it. The script does show a lot of "This was stupid I wanted this to happen!" fanfiction towards the end.

[Premmy]

Iroh came across with this fantastically strong personality, really an Obi-wan or protective Uncle feel to him and since that's just what he was, it was perfect. I enjoyed everything about him, especially towards the end of the movie. Most people say that Shaun Taub was pretty much the only good thing about the movie. But I don't really think there's any version of Iroh that isn't at least mildly awesome.

Aang was too old and not nearly as playful as I was expecting, but despite the terrible casting here, he did fantastic with being convincing in his role- and Shaymalayakamehameha did some great scene cuts at the end that made most of the group I was with actually tear up a little bit. [expecting insults with this line quoted.] Aang wasn't perfect but the actor salvaged the role very well.
See, now, If you knew nothing about the source, I don't see how you were expecting Aang to be playful as all the trailers beforehand were playing up the serious business, you'd have had to know the show to understand Aang's little-kidness


Katara's brother I can't even remember his name but he was such a mook in the film, excepting 1 time, with the boomerang toss, that I have nothing good to say about him.
Which is just all kinds of shameful considering how awesome Sokka is

The shot of Zuko's sister was really fuckin' impressive. She was in the film for maybe two scenes, probably not more then 5 minutes of screen time total at all- and she managed to leave a serious intimidation factor that goes beyond "Oh, she's a little girl, that means she can probably kill everyone in the room." (I have since had it confirmed that, yes, she probably can.)
Like Iroh, I don't think there's any version of Azula that doesn't scream Totally evil and totally awesome

As for the plot, it was a hacked together conglomeration of Book 1 or whatever, and despite taking out a lot of filler and a lot of great story tokens ((Like changing Zuko's fight with Katara from something long and epic into "whoops looked like I knocked your ass out, my bad!" which I got to watch on MariusTwilight's computer when I got home, and holy shit guys that was so much better then what we got in the movie))
One good thing about this movie is it might make more avatar fans for me to nerd it up with.

But overall the story does it's job of telling what's going on and where we can expect Book 2 and Book 3 to go. M Night is already on record saying he wants to do / is already doing those, right? Because just dropping the issue at book 1 and not finishing everything would be horrible at this point
Eragon is to your left, Golden Compass to your right.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/chimp.png

You know, I don't get this at all, explain

[Azisien]

Yeah I'm definitely not moving to Toronto anymore. Dear god man there's just no words anymore.

That was actually among the worst acting I've ever seen. Iroh wasn't a good actor, he barely has any lines. The lines he does have are totally generic. The god damn EYE CLOSE UP ARGH WHAT THE HELL! Seriously the entire theater burst into laughter at that moment.


Also, like, oh my god. This movie better tank so hard, there better not be a sequel. Not even mentioning the fact that Book 2 and 3 are kind of borked due to certain directions he took and information he left out, I now pray daily the studios involved pull the plug.

With my luck, of course, he'll just patch all the holes he's created with a text splash, or maybe some more fantastically terrible exposition.

Edit: For the record I thought Shaun Toub's portrayal of Iroh was awful. As far as pure acting merits, he was more bearable than the others, but only because he didn't really say much. Dev Patel acted well, but clearly had nothing to work with. Even the dude that played COmmander Zhao acted well, maybe the best out of everyone, but his character was absolutely butchered and idiotic.

[Lithp]

Yeah, Preminitions, on that last note, why would that be "horrible"? Shamallama has nothing of value to contribute to this story.

And about those changes...what would he DO if he got ahold of Azula? Make her more sympathetic? Emphasize her mommy issues at the expense of her competence? Cut her appearances dramatically?

I have no confidence that he'd handle her well. Katara had ONE scene where she shows how skilled she is & he fucked that one right up.

And this isn't just me bitching because it's an adaptation. I've seen most of the Harry Potter films, the Watchmen film, & I watch anime, which is, by definition, an adaptation. Sometimes, I think the adaptations handle things better than the original. There ARE adaptations that are just plain bad, y'know?

[Nikose Tyris]

@Prem: I had a quick build up on my way in from my friend who watched the show saying "Aang should be young, probably grabbed an older actor for the part so let's hope for 12 or 13, and he should be hyper and playful and talkative." And those aren't things he was- but he did hold a childish aspect even in serious shots that got some point across- I would have killed to see Penguin Sledding though!

I also got a lot of talk-down after the movie from Anime-Friend who didn't hate this movie but wouldn't go so far as to say he liked it either that gave me some counter-material that I've been mulling over.


Edit: Also I suppose I should keep this to myself but Golden Compass I enjoyed too.

Eragon can go fuck itself with a tractor though, just like Twilight.

[POS Industries]

Okay, my only major complaint is stop calling it anime. Despite the obvious influences, it's a completely American-produced cartoon. Also:

You know, I don't get this at all, explain
No.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Possibly the best review of this movie ever hands down. (http://io9.com/5576076/m-night-shyamalan-finally-made-a-comedy)

I love this guy...

[Premmy]

I get it's Simpsons, and I know that's Krusty's monkey, but I don't get what it has to do with anything
Okay, my only major complaint is stop calling it anime. Despite the obvious influences, it's a completely American-produced cartoon
I'm one of those people who doesn't usually call anime "Anime" because I have the word Cartoon in the language I speak( which might be somewhat douchey of me now that I think of it) and I wouldn't call Breasts Oppai just because they're on a japanese woman, so I can't hold that against him, really.

One of the great things about the series in that regard is it wasn't

"Oh, let's just throw some asian-y trappings completely devoid of context on to make it "exotic""

But:

"Let's be respectful enough,and intelligent enough to realize us two White guys making this very asian thing need to hire consultants on chinese calligraphy, music, and even an ACTUAL KUNG-FU MASTER (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Sifu_Kisu)to coach everyone on the materials beng drawn from so it is both accurate and cool"

[POS Industries]

I get it's Simpsons, and I know that's Krusty's monkey, but I don't get what it has to do with anything
You're overthinking it hardcore. You're looking for specifics in something that is more of a broad expression.

[Premmy]

Okay we've got a Monkey wearing a suit and looking all proffessional, in response to 'I'm not a troll"

A Monkey in a business suit is still a monkey, are you saying that a troll who says he isn't is still a troll?

Are you calling him stupid like a monkey?

Dressing up a monkey is kinda like dressing up something that's still not good for dressing up. Am I close?

A Monkey in a suit is an inherently paradoxical concept, are you implying that Nikose not trolling is impossible?

[Kim]

Still overthinking it.

[Premmy]

Ah fuck it.

Avatar is pretty awesome though, eh?

[POS Industries]

Okay we've got a Monkey wearing a suit and looking all proffessional, in response to 'I'm not a troll"

A Monkey in a business suit is still a monkey, are you saying that a troll who says he isn't is still a troll?

Are you calling him stupid like a monkey?

Dressing up a monkey is kinda like dressing up something that's still not good for dressing up. Am I close?

A Monkey in a suit is an inherently paradoxical concept, are you implying that Nikose not trolling is impossible?
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/azula-1.gif

[Premmy]

See that Nikose? that's why you should watch Avatar, you won't believe you will be crying with that person when you see it.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'll be starting disc 1 of the show tomorrow. warn me what filler to skip.

[Premmy]

There's pretty much no filler, except for, like, one episode, and it's only filler in that it doesn't matter all that much to the rest of the series, not in that it isn't good or isn't tied to some central themes about the characters.
Edit:
Like, The Great Divide isn't a BAD episode, but it's not an important one either.

[RickZarber]

So I finally got around to watching the show tonight (only 2 discs in at this point).

I didn't want to see the movie before, but now I'm dead set against it. Now if I can just convince some of my friends that they don't really need to go see how bad it is for themselves...

[PCD]

Sums it up pretty well. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_FreTKKx6M)

[Archbio]

Like, The Great Divide isn't a BAD episode, but it's not an important one either.

"Lets keep flying."

[Lithp]

"Anime" is just the Japanese word for animation & it also is used connotatively to refer to the style. Therefore, Avatar is technically an anime, depending on your definition.

It is not, however, technically a cartoon, as cartoon is meant specificlly for comedic animation or drawings.

Edit: Oh yeah, Azula...yeesh. I couldn't believe that shocked me as much as it did. What was annoying, though, was that people totally missed the point. "She can get out of that!"/"Yeah, if she didn't just have a TOTAL MENTAL BREAKDOWN, you'd probably be right."

[Kim]

Actually, anime is the French word for animation. :crossarms:

[Archbio]

Take two: Animé in French just means "animated."

Dessin animé (literally meaning "animated drawing") is the term that would be translated as "animation" in that sense, altough animation is also a French word.

I have no idea if anime comes from that French root, though.

[Lithp]

============*
The more you know!

[POS Industries]

cartoon is meant specificlly for comedic animation or drawings.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/data3.jpg

[Nique]

Ugh. POS...

You know the sad thing is I can't think of a way to properly express irritation at the multiple, seemingly random, images posts without myself biting your style and image posting. Touche'.

[Kim]

seemingly random

How are they random?

[Lithp]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/data3.jpg

That part I know I'm right about, because I was arguing against that & looked up the definition.

I know this is kind of anal, but in the issue about what to call serious American animation, inspired by anime or no, there's really no word for it. It's just not what American animation is known for.

[Premmy]

You're one of those people who calls his totally mature and adult comic books "Graphic novels" even when they get released by the month and are twenty two pages long, aren't you?

[Kim]

That part I know I'm right about, because I was arguing against that & looked up the definition.

I wish POS would stop replying with pictures, not because it isn't funny, but because you guys just completely and utterly fail to comprehend the message of the image.

[Amake]

I know this is kind of anal, but in the issue about what to call serious American animation, inspired by anime or no, there's really no word for it. It's just not what American animation is known for.
Ameripanimation!

There we go.

[POS Industries]

I wish POS would stop replying with pictures, not because it isn't funny, but because you guys just completely and utterly fail to comprehend the message of the image.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/Q_mariachi.gif

[Azisien]

Personally I'm okay with words changing over time. It can be an anime in my books!

[PyrosNine]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/Q_mariachi.gif

See, the meaning of this one is that even though most of the actors are totally white, they can still manage to be of other ethnicities if they put their soul into it, especially if that ethnicity allows them to be Mariachi.

That and Mariachi are awesome except when they sing a song that when translated means something along the lines of "how hot your daughter is" at a birthday, intending to have a joke at the attendees and their parent's expense, unaware that said parents are actually Hispanic missionaries and understand every word, and had asked for Mariachi because they actually like Mariachi music.

That and Captain Picard is too bald for this shit.

[Aerozord]

this will sound like an odd comment but, seems they did well on the costumes atleast

[Mondt]

In the past 3 days I've watched Seasons 1 and 2.

I feel clean.

[Funka Genocide]

Ok so I watched it.

I just wish that I could be angry that you guys didn't warn me. But you did! You freakin' did!

Fuck that was god awful. I don't even understand why. The acting, the pacing, the casting... everything was a pile of shit burnt to a crisp, re-ingested and then shat out by the flaming bowels of demon-zombies!

(sorry, just read like 5000 pages of Berserk.)

The only thing good about it was the special effects. Even the so called martial arts were a waste of time.

What really threw me off, even more than the atrociously one dimensional dialogue, was the pacing. Like one minute they're digging Aang out of a snow globe and then not 5 seconds later the eskimo kid is in love with some ice princess who then needs to kill herself for a fish god. Literally, it felt like 5 minutes had passed, no character development or depth was engendered, just like someone was spitting out horrendously driven plot-vomit.

Is the series really any good? Because the thing I saw was an abomination before all gods.

[Kim]

Is the series really any good? Because the thing I saw was an abomination before all gods.

The series is absolutely amazing. Watch the first season, at the very least.

[Lithp]

I wish POS would stop replying with pictures, not because it isn't funny, but because you guys just completely and utterly fail to comprehend the message of the image.

Well, unless it's a widespread meme, I kind of have to make an educated guess.

You're one of those people who calls his titties and swearingtotally mature and adult comic books "Graphic novels" even when they get released by the month and are twenty two pages long, aren't you?

I'm one of those people who hs no idea what you're going on about.

[Premmy]

The series is absolutely amazing. Watch it

Yup

Also, I don't think I Linked the Racebending site, but I intended to several posts back
This is me doing that. (http://www.racebending.com/v3/)

I'm one of those people who hs no idea what you're going on about.
The kinda person who, in order to be taken all serious, 90's style, refuses to call comics comics or cartoons cartoons so people won't associate their Gost in the Shell with Bugs Bunny. Thusly, every single Comic they read is a graphic novel no matter how much it's really a comic, and every cartoon is an "Animated feature film".

[Lithp]

No, I'm just saying, if we're going to be specific & say that Avatar "can't be an anime because it's not from Japan," then we have to accept that it's also not a cartoon because it has a serious plotline. So, then, if you want to be technical, then what is it? Animation? Western animation? Animated program? Animated drama? Or perhaps anime doesn't necessarily mean "from Japan"?

This gets into semantics, words changing over time, & all sorts of sticky arguments. So...I'm really okay with people calling it what they want. Me? I'm partial to the term "western anime."

[Premmy]

No, I'm just saying, if we're going to be specific & say that Avatar "can't be an anime because it's not from Japan," then we have to accept that it's also not a cartoon because it has a serious plotline. So, then, if you want to be technical, then what is it? Animation? Western animation? Animated program? Animated drama? Or perhaps anime doesn't necessarily mean "from Japan"?

This gets into semantics, words changing over time, & all sorts of sticky arguments. So...I'm really okay with people calling it what they want. Me? I'm partial to the term "western anime."

But somehow "cartoon" despite being used thusly all the time, is not acceptable because it's associated with humorous imagery?

[Aerozord]

"Its called japanimation, or atleast it was last time I checked... which was in 1987" (http://www.homestarrunner.com/trogdorcon.html)

[bluestarultor]

Yeah, Lithp, anime is specifically Japanese cartoons. Just because something incorporates some of the same elements does not make it anime; it just makes it anime-inspired.

It's kind of like champagne. Champagne comes from a specific region of France, which is why California has to sell the same stuff as "sparkling wine."

[Aerozord]

A rose by any other name

In other words, shut up and just enjoy its awesome. Names are arbitrary. You could call its animation style "inverted monkey style" not like it has any affect on the body of work. Both language and the style you are trying to name are in constant flux and as my quote pointed out in 20 years you will most likely be wrong no matter what you call it. So stop this senseless arguing over symantics

[Nique]

It is not, however, technically a cartoon, as cartoon is meant specificlly for comedic animation or drawings.

Yeah, Lithp, anime is specifically Japanese cartoons. Just because something incorporates some of the same elements does not make it anime; it just makes it anime-inspired.

But somehow "cartoon" despite being used thusly all the time, is not acceptable because it's associated with humurous imagery?

You guys seem to missing something. Let me see if i can help, 'POS Style'.

See you think Lithp is being all

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7963/comicbookguyy.gif (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/comicbookguyy.gif/)

But then you guys are all like

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7963/comicbookguyy.gif (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/comicbookguyy.gif/)

[Kim]

You guys seem to missing something. Let me see if i can help, 'POS Style'.

POS wouldn't recycle images in the same post...

[Premmy]

completely and utterly fail to comprehend the message

HAH!

[Nique]

POS wouldn't recycle images in the same post...

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7963/comicbookguyy.gif (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/comicbookguyy.gif/)

I can keep this up all day.

[Kim]

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7963/comicbookguyy.gif (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/comicbookguyy.gif/)

I can keep this up all day.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2i7lfew.jpg

[CelesJessa]

Is the series really any good? Because the thing I saw was an abomination before all gods.

The series is amazing. Don't let the movie throw you off.


Saw the movie today, it was.... really bad. I was getting into the beginning, but then it just kept going downhill. There were so many little details that kept driving me crazy. Like, all of the name pronunciations, the lack of top knots, WHERE THE HECK IS ZHAOS MUTTONCHOPS, etc etc etc. And a lot of big things that were dumb: "hey why don't we hold the earthbenders prisoner in a rock gorge." "Oh crap we don't know about Zuko's backstory, random boy get over here and make some exposition" I realize they were trying to put a LOT of content into a short period of time but some of the choices made were really baffling to me.

Although afterwords my friends and I watched some episodes of Avatar to forget the whole thing and I have a crazy (not serious) theory: Watching "The Ember Islands Players" episode again, watching the gaang watch the play of their adventures strongly reminded me of watching the movie. Then as they leave they comment "It was horrible" "Tell me about it!" "But the effects were pretty good" and that was pretty much exactly what we said leaving the movie. So the movie is actually an artistic representation of that episode, meant to put you in the spot of Aang and pals as they were watching their story be utterly be mutilated.

[Kim]

Although afterwords my friends and I watched some episodes of Avatar to forget the whole thing and I have a crazy (not serious) theory: Watching "The Ember Islands Players" episode again, watching the gaang watch the play of their adventures strongly reminded me of watching the movie. Then as they leave they comment "It was horrible" "Tell me about it!" "But the effects were pretty good" and that was pretty much exactly what we said leaving the movie. So the movie is actually an artistic representation of that episode, meant to put you in the spot of Aang and pals as they were watching their story be utterly be mutilated.

The internet has already beaten you to it... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_FreTKKx6M&fmt=18)