Pokemon Umbral Discussion 37: You Don't Want To Enter This Thread

[Astral Harmony]

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral19.jpg

What did I just tell you?! Well, since you were retarded brave enough to open the thread, I guess I should reward you with something that will help the brainbleach go down more smoothly.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral33.jpg

I didn't know Dawn wanted to be a Weapon Meister.

I'll try to have the post done tonight. Moera is fighting really hard to win the gold trophy from Charlotte in the Most Evil Bitch Ever contest.

EDIT: Good, it's done. I'm going to bed. I'll try to be up at an early time to answer your questions before I go to work in the morning.

[Geminex]

Basically, the only cavet I would make about that is that characters who dualclass into something with a different focus can be strong in a role he/she wasn't good at before. However, their effectiveness should not be as effective as someone who has the same class but more levels in it.
Yes. This is what I mean. Sure, people should get a few different specializations, get good at lots of things! But if Pierce got one or two abilities, and suddenly he was as good a supporter as Renny is, then Pierce's new abilities would have to be reevaluated.

Also, we should keep in mind that we should not insist that specialization should be unique, but is ultimately up to the player. Just because Impact and Pierce and Charlotte are leaning toward a certain level of aggressive skills doesn't mean that Renny should be strong-armed into only getting medic related skills just because most of his moves are like that. However the skills should be guided by having a certain pre-resequite classes or its basic power is not arrogantly competing with others, especially those who specialize in that field. Anyhow, redundant specialities can be useful if someone get knocked out or seperated or run out of rage or other such things.
Not sure what you're saying here. If it's just that several characters can (and even should) specialize in the same thing, with similar methods, then you have my full agreement. Though, like I said above, I also agree that, when one character spends a lot of time specializing, then any other characters should have to put in equal time and effort before they get as good as them in that aspect.

Yes, of course RennyxLola remains under my (and Drac's) personal protection. I doubt Matt would try to seduce her away from you, and if Bard made Charlotte try, it'd totally be worth compensating you. ^^

The other reason is basically that I want something minimally cool too as a token of good faith. :3
I'm not happy because Charlotte gets to be leader as part of the agreement as well as gradually being promised promotion to what could very well be supreme command of THE brute squad of the sequel when/if Impact goes for world domination, Pierce gets out of the favor he owe Impact AND promised to be the next leader after Charlotte initial leadership run. Matt and I on the other hand get nothing offered to us for the purpose of the deal while still being told to hope that the deal would ultimately be for the good of us all!
>: [
You say you ask for a 'token of good faith'. You say you are not yet satisfied with my motives.
That is a lie.

Greed, Menarker. Greed is what drives you. Not two pages ago, you tell me:
I'll however more or less hold to the agreement. I wasn't in total disagreement as more on concerned on the "fine print" that one player (You) would be more or less deciding the standards of power of techniques.
You seemed... satisfied. You will benefit from Impact no longer leading, from no longer being bound to him, and you know that. Yet, now you tell me that this is not enough. That you want more.
What you ask for is not a token of good faith, Menarker. It is a bribe.
I compromised with Dracorion, because he took his position to begin with, he stood by it. I respect that. He defended his interests consistently. I still think it was a mistake to negotiate with him in the manner that I did. It is a mistake I will not make again.

I will certainly not make the mistake of compromising with you now. Agree to the deal, and I will forget that you made this request and show you... goodwill next time we negotiate. Considering that we will have to negotiate the exact guidelines soon, you will 4LMOST C3RT41NLY B3N3F1T FROM TH1S!
BUT 1 W1LL NOT BR1B3 YOU. NO!
>: [
>: [
>: [

Also, AB, I think I hate you now. Why is Misty even under the table? Is that... a vido camera? Oh lord.

Also, also I'm back, bitches. Posting a plan within the next 5 hours.

[Dracorion]

Oh wow...

I'm seriously considering dumping Shizuka for Irene now. Talk about MILF, huh?

Oh man, Pierce is going to have so much fun with his Psyshade. Whatever your plan says, Geminex, Pierce's trainer attack is going to have Psyshade Pierce getting a faceful of Phantom Staff.

Also, AB, care to update us on the progress that Tyranistorm is making in turning the water to mud and eliminating the splash effect?

Oh, and Geminex, Menarker was pressed for time when he posted that, I think. For all you know it was meant to be tentative agreement until he had time to read everything/write up a proper post.

[Menarker]

AB: I'm curious about Togekiss' status. From the status description, you made it sound like Togekiss managed to endure the AOE part of the laser and snapped back to normal when Moera was "defeated".

Dominated Togekiss has taken great damage. Moera Zwei has been defeated. Togekiss has return to Renny's Pokeball.

Yes, Dominated Togekiss has taken great damage, but then Togekiss got returned to Renny's pokeball. Should I assume it is still healthy and not KOed? Just wanted to clarify.


Are the two new arrivals Irene and Melanie permanent members? If so, I probably should copy-paste their entries into the database.

Also...

- Watchmen Formation Update: Irene and Melanie have created a formation on the other side of the Harbingers of Ascension formation. The formations cannot use items on each other.
- Shock Trooper Skill: Powerful Presense ~ AllStat +1 to all allied units in formation. Irene's raw talent just seems to bleed on everyone and make them want to tear motherfuckers up as well.

Does Irene's stat boost works on the Watchmen's formation on the other side or only really effect Melanie?


Psyshades can actually fight and defend themselves like those they are modeled after.

Does this mean they are able to use Techniques? >_> I'd imagine the Renny Psyshade to either be the most USELESS because Renny's Serene Blessing rely on Togekiss, can't benefit from Prosperous Gift with no actual affection from Lola and Psyshades being immune to items anyhow, and Renny naturally being the weakest fighter in the group. >_> Unless Psyshades are able to mimic the pokemons sent out by Renny or something or the Renny Psyshade is much stronger than its small frame would seem? If it turns out the Psyshade can use his abilities without needing the requirements like Togekiss, then yeah, he'd be a real pest.



Keep in mind that I was on vacation most of the time over the past week and my internet was limited. I also said you were busy in extensive discussion with Drac over his "bribe" and specifics of the overall deal were being pounded down and refined bit by bit, so I didn't want to get into discussions that I didn't have enough time to follow through with all the way during my vacation.

But fine. I'll recall on my request then, if mainly because the entire group needs that promised goodwill during the writing of the guidelines to powers and abilities.

[Geminex]

I am sympathetic to your internet-less plight. But if you had needed further time to consider, I would have put negotiations on hold. Waited a few days at least. Instead, you committed.

But that is immaterial now. I am glad I could persuade you.
>: ]

Hmm...
I've missed quite a bit of stuff. Do we know what's super-effective against Betas?

[Menarker]

Betas are considered mutated humans and have the same weakness to poison and fire.

Irene has a legendary poison/dragon type with its strongest attack being a 170 power poison move before taking STAB in consideration. (And her pokemon has an innate +1 stage boost just standing near her.)

The Psyshades and the Psytellite are all Psychic type, so dark, ghost and bug will naturally be of good use.

[Geminex]

Kay.

And eh, my flight's going earlier than expected. If you can wait for 48 hours, I'll have a plan. If not, my advice would be to hit the spytellites and Psy-Renny. Throw a trainer attack or two into Moera's direction. Also, find out how to un-dominate the asuras.

[Menarker]

It's possible that domination is related to concentration, since Togekiss is back in Renny's pokeball after Moera was "defeated" the first time (although I'm confirming with AB to make sure it wasn't knocked out).

However, Moera is stuck in God-Mode with invincibility. She apparently can't be hurt until the Psytellites and maybe the Psyshades are defeated.

So the order of combat seems to have to be

Psytellites
Psyshades
Moera (Cannot be attacked at this time.)
Betas (Not a priority technically, but they will cause problems. However, they can be attacked at any time.)

One of the things I thought of was havimg Melanie use an AttackUp boosting item twice on Irene's Unownuat, giving it a total of +3 stage boost and having it use Explosion at the same turn that Renny activates Serene Blessing and people either protect themselves or send out pokemons that might not be useful in the near future. However, it would only hit the Betas and the Psytellites (Psyshades immune to normal type attacks and Moera is invincible).

AB, what does DeepFreeze do? Frostmourne (Ice, 100% Frozen, 25% DeepFreeze)

[Dracorion]

Actually Menarker, check this out.

- Attacks: same as the person whose image they assume. Psyshades tend to gain some additional powers if the person whose image they assume is generally not a powerful fighter to begin with.

So Psyshade Renny would actually be more powerful than Renny. Though it still may be the weakest of the bunch. Psyshade Pierce may be more powerful than Pierce, too. That's going to be fun.

Also, I reiterate: Pierce's trainer attack is going at PsyPierce. There will be no discussing this.

Anyway, AB, since Toxicroak went down, shouldn't Moonbeam Disco have hit Moera and Asura Betas D, E and F instead of just D and E?

Also, shouldn't Impact's Swarm Bow have dealt, I dunno, a little more damage to Moera? It's supposed to be more powerful than your average pokemon attack, after all. And Bug is super-effective against Psychic 'n shit.

And what are Melanie's and Irene's Rages at? 50?

It's possible that Renny's Togekiss wasn't knocked out and it just returned to its pokeball because Moera was defeated at the same time and it couldn't very well occupy the spot being used by Swampert right now.

Un-Dominating the Betas... well, I imagine we would have to take out Moera again, and we can't very well do that right now. I don't actually see any indication that taking out the Psytellites or Psyshades will bring down Moera's shield.

For all we know, we'll have to take out every enemy, and even then it's not like we'd be forcing her to bring it down. She'd do it herself because she'd need to get on the offensive so she can, y'know, kill us. Though, let's face facts, she'll probably take the shield down in a couple of turns, as soon as we've put a bit of a dent in her formation.

Anyway, if we can't use Charlotte's Future Shock yet, we could have her use Arceus' Testament Drive on Beta B or C.

Lexhur can use Grill Gore to desvastating effects, since just about everything on the field is Psychic type. And if Rachel uses a couple of Rage Rockets on both Pierce and Impact, and Pierce uses a Rage Rocket on himself, we could have some C,C&C goodness as well as Hellfire.

Not to mention, Harliette currently has enough Rage for Desperado.

[Menarker]

Does this mean they are able to use Techniques? >_> I'd imagine the Renny Psyshade to either be the most USELESS because Renny's Serene Blessing rely on Togekiss, can't benefit from Prosperous Gift with no actual affection from Lola and Psyshades being immune to items anyhow, and Renny naturally being the weakest fighter in the group. >_> Unless Psyshades are able to mimic the pokemons sent out by Renny or something or the Renny Psyshade is much stronger than its small frame would seem? If it turns out the Psyshade can use his abilities without needing the requirements like Togekiss, then yeah, he'd be a real pest.


Yeah, I realized that in the first place, Drac, but Renny doesn't have any special attacks of his own or any weapons like Pierce or Charlotte has. Hell, Renny never done a single Trainer Attack ever! Hence why I figured they Psyshade might use the trainer's pokemon possibly, and I was wondering if they were capable of using our techniques without worrying about the requirements or drawbacks.


Otherwise, I agree with everything you said above except for two things:

1: Charlotte would be better off just having Arceus use Focus-ed Judgement. It'll be poison typed (super effective) due to the poison plate on it, power of 150 BEFORE the focus and the Betas are weak to poison anyhow. It'll be quite powerful enough to knock the Betas on their asses in one hit, but also half the cost.

2: Desperado is normal type, which the Psyshades are all immune to, plus Moera is immune to everything already. Chances are good that due to the randomness of the technique, most of them would ineffective. I'd personally save her rage for a future Serene Blessing if we do end up using the Explosion tactic I suggested above. We'd want to have enough rage to protect Irene and Melanie.

AB: Can I/Renny make a free spot check to see that Moun is still with us and not gotten lost, injured or kidnapped while we weren't looking? She has been awfully silent as of late and it would be embaressing if we failed to secure her properly when she was right in our hands. Whitney would not be happy either at all...

Otherwise, I'm thinking now might be a good time for me to send out Mollesk in preperation for the shield to go down. If Irene can indeed buff it up with her ability, his Simple nature would boost it to +2 stage boosts, (Thus increasing his defense and offense) and have Mollesk delay his action until the end of the round when he uses Power Trick. Then we could have a 999 Attack legendary pokemon with a bug typing use Testament Drive on Moera when her shield goes down for incredibly super effective damage.
It would be incredibly horrific, both damage wise... and due to tentacle induced punishment against a psycho loli who already the way she is due to her character history of sexual assault. (I mean inneundos, not Mollesk actually molesting... unless AB wants to do that to Renny's shock.)

But it's PAYBACK for her dominating my Togekiss!

[Astral Harmony]

Eh, sure. You're in mud, now. Go do some wrestlin'.

Togekiss is still wounded from the laser, but it isn't dead.

Irene is, and it should be obvious by this point, Rayleen's replacement. In a way, Melanie will be replacing Dormond. So yes, they'll be permanent members of the Watchmen.

Unfortunately, Irene's Powerful Presense skill only works on Melanie right now. Whatever Pokemon you have Irene deploy will also be affected.

Because Renny, Pierce, and Charlotte do the vast majority of their damage through their Pokemon, their Psyshades will fight very differently. Expect them to fight a lot like if they were Slayers.

The Deep Freeze status effect is very similar to Frozen, except that instant death is possible through the means of a critical hit. Deep Freeze is applied by hitting an enemy that is Frozen with that same status effect, and it's also possible for Frozen units to enter Deep Freeze state on a very cold battlefield. The desert where the Honmyr Prideguard's main base is located is a good example of a cold environment. Especially at night. It makes for great harsh weather training for the troops.

My document says that Moonbeam Disco hits three targets, not four. If you have the data elsewhere, let me know and I'll unfuck myself.

Moera died. Quit grumpin', y'grump. Sure, maybe Impact's Swarm Bow did do more damage than I indicated, but I'm not going to change it since the overall desired effect was achieved.

Irene and Melanie's Rage indications are at 50.

[Dracorion]

Two things: We need someone to clear away the Fog, and we can't use Wilhelmina because her Dark-type bullet was made for this.

Unless you can use a Rage Rocket on yourself, then yeah, have Shaymin use Divide.

Also, Desperado is non-elemental. That means Almighty.

Even if Irene's Shock Trooper skill works on our formation, I dunno if it'll work with Mollesk's Simple ability.

EDIT: Eh, sure. You're in mud, now. Go do some wrestlin'.

Fortunately, Charlotte has enough Rage for a Focus and Future Shock.

Because Renny, Pierce, and Charlotte do the vast majority of their damage through their Pokemon, their Psyshades will fight very differently. Expect them to fight a lot like if they were Slayers.

Pierce is going to have so much fun.

My document says that Moonbeam Disco hits three targets, not four. If you have the data elsewhere, let me know and I'll unfuck myself.

AUGH GODDAMNIT.

Yeah, you're right. Fuck.

Moera died. Quit grumpin', y'grump. Sure, maybe Impact's Swarm Bow did do more damage than I indicated, but I'm not going to change it since the overall desired effect was achieved.

Yeah, I just don't want you to go assumin' Impact's attacks are weaker somehow.

... Actually nevermind, I never said anything.

[Astral Harmony]

I wonder how Renny will behave now that there's another Pokebrid nurse chick around?

If Dante doesn't post what Matthias looks like, I'll just create my own idea of him and use that to finish the comic.

[Menarker]

... I feel embaressed about the Moonbeam Disco thing now. I quite remember it being four back when it was first made. Probably an edit from the second time it was made and I didn't notice it. ^^;

I'd still like to know if Moun is alright at this point.

EDIT: And Renny would steer clear of anyone who is a self-claimed sadist.

[Dracorion]

Apparently, Melanie only cares for breaking girls so it seems we won't have her trying to drag Renny down to her torture chamber.

[Astral Harmony]

Apparently, Melanie only cares for breaking girls so it seems we won't have her trying to drag Renny down to her torture chamber.

Yeah, but chances are that this plot will at some point see Renny in a dress and a wig (probably for no reason at all). Aside from Angelo and Aster, he's the only one who could pull off that look.

Muon's fine. Strangely, I imagine her doing something pretty normal right now, like getting a hotdog and a root beer from a street vendor.

[Dracorion]

Well you gotta reward their dedication if the street vendors are still going strong while everything is going to hell around them.

I mean, their carts are probably joining the piles of stuff being lifted off the ground to wreck our shit.

And you realize that now you have to put Renny in a dress and a wig, right? Say that Lola likes cross-dressing or something. Hell, come up with some wacky shenanigans involve Renny and a bottle of scotch or something, but it must happen.

[Menarker]

I wonder how Renny will behave now that there's another Pokebrid nurse chick around?

Apparently, Melanie only cares for breaking girls so it seems we won't have her trying to drag Renny down to her torture chamber.

Crossdressing jokes aside, Renny seeks happiness and joy and peace among other things. Melanie takes things in the other direction, so Renny would definately not feel comfortable around her.

"I thought you took the Hippocratic Oath!"
"I had my fingers crossed."

As for Renny getting drunk, Mollesk wine would easily suffice since he makes the damn stuff himself. :3

[Geminex]

Whee! Thank god for airport lounges!
We should also do something with Charlotte's rage. Bitch needs to get a love-tech. No, I don't care about not having had your sidequest yet, we need something other than future shock to burn your rage on. Though I guess future shock would work for now.

Mind you, I don't have any of my notes, so I won't have too much to say. I'm thinking the following...

You guys are probably right in saying that it'll be hard to get the asuras un-dominated in time...
But still, quite a few of them are weakened...

I think we're gonna need another CCC this turn, almost certainly... Cause see, what I'd propose is this:
Some of the Betas are already weakened. We should kill A, certainly. If we have any fire-type attacks, probably D and/or E as well. Alternately, we could just paralyze the two, though eliminating them altogether would probably be best. We should leave the other two alive, though if we have a spare super fang, we can throw it their way.

Then...
I think psitellites altogether have a bit more potential to be Really Fucking Annoying then the shades do. But the big question there is... do shades gather rage? can they use signature techniques? Cause one thing that'd annoy me above all else is Phantom Renny yelling about Phantom Friendship and using a Phantom Blessing to protect our targets from doom.

Mind you, I'm hoping that the answer to that question is no, so once the Asuras are dead, I'd definitely go for the 'lites. We have quite a few bug attacks... Though I'm hoping Impact is more effective against them than he was against Moera.

Though we should also probably focus on killing Matt's and Impact's shade, sooner than later. It's one thing for a trainer to lose a few more pokemon, quite another for Matt or Impact to get hit by their shade, a beta, and then some random damage and going down.


AB, gonna have to ask: How does dual-classing work?
Ok, so the question's bit general...
But that is the extent of my question. How does it work? I mean, sure, I get that battle masters can both deploy themselves and two pokemon in battle, combining the abilities of both trainers and slayers (though it is still completely and utterly retarded to have pokemon go rogue if their battle master reaches 0 HP in combat). But what about Slayer/Pokebrid combinations? Do they get to attack twice? And what stats do they use? Slayer stats? Pokebrid stats? Combination of the two?
And what if someone dual-classes to Trainer/Snagger. Do they get to deploy 4 pokemon, and have an arsenal of up to... 12 pokemon?
I'll have some time in the next few days. If I may, I'd like to write up an action-based system. Nothing too comblex, just a theoretical basis. Because the system we're using now is more or less 'play it by the ear'. And I don't think that will work very well when more upgrades come in later..

Menarker, I'm not entirely sure about Mollesk. I certainly don't think you can delay an action until the end of the turn. Stuff like focus punch would be brutal otherwise. Also, I don't think that simple amplifies 'aura' boosts. What else do you have in your arsenal? In fact, what do you all have left?

[Astral Harmony]

If Renny's got to cross-dress, there is a strong possibility that you, Impact, and Matthias might have to as well. It would have to be for a mission.

Impact: "I am not dressing in drag."
Renny: "I guess that means you don't get to be leader, then."
Impact: "What?!"
Charlotte: "Let's face it. They're not going to let men in there. If you want to lead, then get changed already."
Impact: "But...I...that's..."
Pierce: "Well?"
Impact: "Aw goddamn it! Fine, hand me the wedding dress, that blond wig, and that makeup set."
Renny, Charlotte, Pierce, and Matthias: "???"
Impact: "Well, it's just...y'know, if you're gonna do something, do it right? Right?"

[Dracorion]

Pierce would probably either sit it out until the fighting starts, or sneak in.

He can totally sneak in, you know. He wasn't exactly the kind of thief that blasted into a heavily guarded vault and kicked all sorts of ass.

Well, he did that too, but not all the time.

[Geminex]

See, that'd be taking a risk. You'd be risking that Impact likes it, and asks the kimonos for a sex change along with his demonic powers and then you'd have an Impact with not only steadily growing mind-control powers, but also...
other, less steadily-growing but more bouncy mind control powers. D'you really wanna give him the ability to seduce anyone? Do you really?

[Menarker]

AB: Is it possible to delay an action until after the enemy phase, like having a pokemon stall for time before using a technique, although carrying the risk that it might be knocked out before it can use it?

Also, does Simple ability work for all things that boosts stats like Irene's aura (if she was in the proper location) or the stat booster of an engineer? Or only items and moves get affected?

Gem, if you click on my signature's respective link, you can find the bios of the PCs ready for you to click on their names and find out their pokemons and the movelists for the current mission. Admitably, I hoped you would edit your own bio so your movelists were in it too.

[Dracorion]

Not to mention your Signature Techniques and Love-Techs, ya lazy bum!

Also, somehow I'm not too worried about Impact becoming a trannie. Mostly because everyone on the team would know what he used to be. Granted, some of them probably wouldn't mind doing she-Impact anyway.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain if Renny can't be artificially aged via Magatama, Impact can't have a sex change.

[Geminex]

Hey, Menarker.
Menarker.
Y'know why I'm giving up leadership in return for balancing? That is fucking why. Because you, even when you know that it's bullshit, will run to AB asking him to agree on something that pretty much gives you and only you more power. You're abusing the fact that he's far too willing to say yes to stuff, and that's really fucking pathetic.
How do I know that you know it's bullshit? This little nugget of enlightenment:
although carrying the risk that it might be knocked out before it can use it?
Yeah. Wow. Huuuuge risk. 'Wow. My pokemon's defense is boosted to the absolute maximum level. I suuuuuure do hope that it doesn't get knocked out before it can use its technique!'
And even if that weren't the case, the player could probably quite easily determine whether or not their pokemon is gonna get knocked out. I mean, you don't have to delay. You'd have the choice to. The point is really fucking neglegible, it's a very minor downside
And you're smart. I'm pretty sure you know this. So why would you write it?
Hmm...
Ooh! Ooh! I know! Could it be that you're quite simply trying (and, admittedly, failing horribly) to present your requests in a neutral light (despite being aware that the request is anything but neutral, cause why else would you try?) so AB won't realize what bullshit they are, and are as such thus manipulating the DM to the other player's detriment? Cause I'm pretty sure that's what you're doing.

[Menarker]

When I asked the questions about dual-classing to AB a few months ago, (Pokebrid-Slayer. Yes, I'm triple-classing) he pretty much said that pokemon-brid moves would be proportionally increased by proportionally Slayer-ish power so they aren't stuck only using slayer weapons which are more powerful than their respective pokemon moves, although weapons allow them a level of diversity and come with powerful status afflictions. Then again, when I asked that question, I told AB that Renny wouldn't be using slayer weapons, as a sort of trade-off. The pokemon moves would be pumped to slayerish levels, but I would forfeit weapons, fighting more like a pokemon, but with the benefits of armor and accessories and other slayer bonuses. I also assumed that the character would only be able to attack once, and that attacking twice was supposed to be the special reward of going further into the Slayer's class.


EDIT: The reason why I asked about delays was because AB said that's how he would do it for some other moves that have negative priority or work better with lower priority like Payback or Avalanche, since we don't actually use speed stat very much for anything but crits in this setting. From a roleplaying perspective, stalling is possible since it's just waiting your turn. But I wanted to ask if AB intended for that to be permissible, (and thus others in our group could stall moves like Recover or Payback and such moves that might work better if they did get delayed) or keep it more or less as close to the game as possible and not do it.

Also, you brought up the thought that it MIGHT not work. Drac brought it up too before that. But neither of you brought it up to AB to make sure. I'm just doing exactly that. If AB says no, I won't pursue it.

And yes, Mollesk is pretty much one of the best choices for stalling, but he's still weak to OHKOs and status afflictions. I mean the Betas got a move that has 100% confuse and 50% flinch. That is already a great way to stop him in his tracks.

[Astral Harmony]

Time's up and I gotta go to work. I'll get on those questions right after I get home and then hopefully finish the comic tonight.

In the meantime, here's the picture that inspired the Psychic Pseudo-Legendary, Unownaut.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral57.png

I saw it on Gelbooru a few times and couldn't resist.

[Dracorion]

And yes, Mollesk is pretty much one of the best choices for stalling, but he's still weak to OHKOs and status afflictions. I mean the Betas got a move that has 100% confuse and 50% flinch. That is already a great way to stop him in his tracks.

Just because Mollesk can be taken out in some obscure retarded way doesn't mean it's suddenly entirely fair.

Damage dealing is and always will be the primary method of taking out enemies. Making your little son of a bitch practically immune to that is what lights up all our warning lights.

No, it's different from Tsujimi because that one's only immune to debuffs. It can still be taken out by status effects or a good old-fashioned ass kicking.

And if you try to bring up that Tsujimi has no weaknesses: A) it doesn't have any strengths either, and B) remember that video you showed me before of Shuckle maxing out it's defenses and taking a STAB super-effective hit from Groudon? I think it then went on to use Power Trick and one-shot said Groudon.

You might argue that "but our enemies are all really strong!" in which case I would remind you that out of all the pokemon, Mollesk was the only one who survived Gardenoir's Signature Technique. It then went on to take a fireball to the face from Cerulean Wildfire, which was really only effective because of the oil.


So yeah, I'm generally going to be against you getting ways to abuse Mollesk's insane defence.

As it is, that item Mollesk has is pushing it. "Oh, but he can't use attacks with it!" It lets your little fucker use Power Trick on its ridiculous defences and attack in the same turn.


And AB, Unownaut is a one badass mother.

[Bard The 5th LW]

How come I can't see any picture AB post?

Like, I can see when I pull the link out of a quote, but thats it.

[Dracorion]

Clearly, it's a sign from AB that you suck and he disapproves of Charlotte's promotion to leader.

Or maybe you just suck.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Either point could be valid.

[Menarker]

Well, I'm just asking if stalling is a valid idea for any of our pokemons, since you or Gem couldn't find a specific rule against it and because AB mentioned about it before with other moves. If AB says no, which is quite possible, then no biggie. I was just asking since otherwise, there is Follow Me or Serene Blessing which could be used for the above suggested plan.

>_> Also, regarding that video you quoted, Shuckle DIDN'T maximize its defenses and still did all those things.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Stalling sounds completely possible to me.

[Dracorion]

I can understand stalling until the end of our phase. But after the enemies have had their shot? Not unless you're using a move like Focus Punch 'n shit.

And shut up Bard you don't get to garner support!

[Bard The 5th LW]

I'm just saying that their shouldn't really be anything stopping someone from trying.

Whether or not it is a good idea is up to debate.

[Astral Harmony]

Psyshades don't function the same as regular people, since they are not regular people and are birthed from powerful psionics. So, Rage doesn't really apply to them. Will they use Signature Techniques? Most definitely. Yours? Very damn likely, or at least their own version of it. And don't expect them to only deal Psychic damage just because they're literally made from psychic power.

Irene can attack twice. Melanie cannot. The Slayer and Pokebrid class don't really combine statistics, they just kinda gain boosts and decreases depending on a mix of the Slayers balanced stats and the Pokemon's mixed stats. They have the ability to use Slayer attacks and the attacks of their Pokebrid forms, STAB included. Their Slayer defenses and the Pokemon's type defenses mix as well.

If someone is a Trainer, they might as well never crosstrain into a Snagger, and vice versa. You can argue that it should work, but I've stated it before and I'll state it again: it just provides no great benefit and I'm not going to bother fixing it. They don't get to have 12 Pokemon, they don't get to deploy 4 at a time, they don't get to appoint more Leader Pokemon or have more custom accessories. None of that shit.

If you want to hold out on taking action, then just put it in your strategy to wait until the end. We'll work the rest out after I post my response.

Mollesk's Simple ability should work with all stat boosts and debuffs, regardless of source, right? Battle is very strange and chaotic in Pokemon Umbral. Heck, these days it seems like you don't even fight enemy Pokemon anymore, doesn't it? Anyways, Pokemon have adopted so that their abilities and moves expand to assist humans and draw on their powers. So Mollesk's Simple ability does apply to anything that provides boosts and debuffs, from Irene's Powerful Presense skill to an Engineer's devices.

[Menarker]

AB, gonna have to ask: How does dual-classing work?
Ok, so the question's bit general...
But that is the extent of my question. How does it work? I mean, sure, I get that battle masters can both deploy themselves and two pokemon in battle, combining the abilities of both trainers and slayers (though it is still completely and utterly retarded to have pokemon go rogue if their battle master reaches 0 HP in combat).


Oh, right, I also asked about this quite some time before, and AB told me that Trainer/Slayers don't get to fight in the same manner as a Shock Trooper. Basically, there would be normally 3 combatants at a time (2 pokemons and the trainer), but only two of them actually attack per turn.


Anyhow, for our plan for this turn, we pretty much need to work out which targets we're attacking, who is on defog duty and that sort of thing.

Gem said we need to take out the Psyshade Renny due to avoiding Phantom Blessing. However, if we put all our eggs in one basket it might get negated, so we probably should spread our attacks a bit or use Almighty type attacks wherever we can. Hariette's Desperado is a good move at this point then.

One of the things we could try doing, if you think we can handle it is putting each of us that are attacking in groups. Then we'll have Irene send out that Unownaut and having it use Explosion. Those that are hit are sure not to be protected and thus, we'll have our groups focus on those that get hit, with emphasis on the Psyshades and the Psytellites. Downside of course, is that we'll get hit by the explosion too. Steel, Rock and Ghosts types will be most useful here as well as those with high hitpoints and defense.
I can have Mollesk stick with Rock Slide if we do that since with its high defense and rock typing, it'll resist Explosion quite a bit.

[Dracorion]

Oh, right, I also asked about this quite some time before, and AB told me that Trainer/Slayers don't get to fight in the same manner as a Shock Trooper. Basically, there would be normally 3 combatants at a time (2 pokemons and the trainer), but only two of them actually attack per turn.

... What?

Are you drunk? That's retarded man. The way I figured non-Shock Trooper Battle Masters and Legion Mages working is that they have the option of sending two pokemon out or one pokemon and themselves.

If I remember correctly, the only reason Rachel doesn't have two pokemon out is because she had to pull one back so she can use two items in her turn. But yeah, if we weren't whoring her for heals every turn we could have her attack with two pokemon, or use a pokemon and attack for herself.

Anyhow, for our plan for this turn, we pretty much need to work out which targets we're attacking, who is on defog duty and that sort of thing.

Renny's on Defog duty, man. I mean, Umbreon's Assurance is nice and all, but I'd rather have the Fog of War cleared out.

Gem said we need to take out the Psyshade Renny due to avoiding Phantom Blessing. However, if we put all our eggs in one basket it might get negated, so we probably should spread our attacks a bit or use Almighty type attacks wherever we can. Hariette's Desperado is a good move at this point then.

Hey AB, how exactly would Psyshade Renny's Phantom Blessing work? I mean, would it activate before our attacks this turn, so we wouldn't know who's protected until it's too late, or would it work next turn, so the enemies will be protected then?

One of the things we could try doing, if you think we can handle it is putting each of us that are attacking in groups. Then we'll have Irene send out that Unownaut and having it use Explosion. Those that are hit are sure not to be protected and thus, we'll have our groups focus on those that get hit, with emphasis on the Psyshades and the Psytellites. Downside of course, is that we'll get hit by the explosion too. Steel, Rock and Ghosts types will be most useful here as well as those with high hitpoints and defense.
I can have Mollesk stick with Rock Slide if we do that since with its high defense and rock typing, it'll resist Explosion quite a bit.

I don't...

What?

What? Are you still drunk?

Dude, Explosion only hits two enemies and one ally and the user. Or just one enemy and the user if you Focus it. It would not hit us, like you're saying. And it would certainly not hit all the enemies.

I mean, seriously, are you drunk?

Anyway, AB, couple of things:

Are NPC Trainers and Snaggers going to get their own custom items and Xth-level pokemon 'n shit?

Also, I am justifiably annoyed that Irene went and stole half of Elizabeth's team.

[Astral Harmony]

Who even came out with Phantom Blessing? I didn't say anything about Psyshade Renny even having that. So, ignore the existence of it until it actually happens, 'kay?

I doubt that NPC Trainers and Snaggers will get stuff like that. Hell, the NPC Slayers don't have accessories. The way I figure it, if they had custom Pokemon and Xth level shit, they would've joined the Watchmen with them.

And there's no such thing as too many slutty nurses.

[Geminex]

Who even came out with Phantom Blessing? I didn't say anything about Psyshade Renny even having that. So, ignore the existence of it until it actually happens, 'kay?

Will they use Signature Techniques? Most definitely. Yours? Very damn likely, or at least their own version of it.

Gem's list of things he hates:
Suddenly invulnerable enemies
Mollesk

Capisce?

And seriously, the only reason I haven't made even more demands that Mollesk be nerfed is the fact that a super-defensive unit is almost useless in this game. And if it turns out that you can actually stall, that's out the window too. In fact, the first time that power trick is effective, that's out the window.

Also, landed safely in Shanghai. Interesting city.

Also, AB, so could you maybe just write up what each combination of classes will be able to do, exactly?

[Dracorion]

I wonder if PsyImpact can use C,C&C.

[Astral Harmony]

Also, AB, so could you maybe just write up what each combination of classes will be able to do, exactly?

I could do that, but I haven't even done the demon upgrades, and I still have the sprite comics. I've got some catching up to do and I'll probably be spending the whole weekend working on it all.

Well, that and watching hentai and playing h-games. You know me.

Basically, you're always talking about balance, so simply do this: suppose a character takes a class all the way to Rank 10. Then look at the 2ndary class they might take. Then think about the upgrades in terms of general balance. I would think it should be blatantly obvious what upgrades would apply and what wouldn't to keep someone from becoming unstoppable.

To put it bluntly, the upgrades a character gains from a 2ndary class won't be as good as their primary class, simply because some of the benefits they tend to gain, regardless of what each class does, either stack terribly, could stack into godmodding territory, or simply don't stack at all. Take a Slayer's Sweep and a Trainer's Divide. They serve the exact same function and cost the same amount of Rage. But there won't be an upgrade to replace it.

The main reason I never bothered with it before was because the majority of you, I think, were going to hit up some ranks in the Demon Half/Demon classes. I know at least Impact and Pierce and one of Pierce's NPCs are on board.

Come to think of it, Impact's Demon ranks will do some pretty villainous shit. Dominating civilians & Pokemon into becoming unwilling slaves being pretty high up on that ladder.

[Dracorion]

Wait, hey, whoa hey.

Okay, I mean, I get that having two PCs for one player might be pushing it, but I really really would like to treat Sophia as a PC. Y'know, with a permanent spot on the main formation and a say in things and Xth-level pokemon and custom hold items 'n shit.

Elizabeth and Sam? Yeah, they can stay benched for the whole RP for all I care.

[Geminex]

Basically, you're always talking about balance, so simply do this: suppose a character takes a class all the way to Rank 10. Then look at the 2ndary class they might take. Then think about the upgrades in terms of general balance. I would think it should be blatantly obvious what upgrades would apply and what wouldn't to keep someone from becoming unstoppable.
Done and done. Or, well, doing so. And yes, you'd think it'd be obvious, but I have learned never to trust in something being obvious preventing someone from trying to exploit it. And, hell, sometimes succeeding.

And Drac...
I'm fine with her getting PC-level power and all, but...
and a say in things
What? Say in things? Voting rights? Fuck that. You'd, in essence, be simply getting two votes in this RP! If this were the side-RP, sure, she'd count as a main character, but if you introduce her into the main... yeah, no. I mean, sure, 'we could get second PCs as well', but I, for one, have no interest in doing so. And considering that there's never been any talk of getting two PCs... yeah, no.

[Astral Harmony]

She could have a permanent spot...as your Enforcer. But no, I'm not allowing her to function as a PC like Pierce is. 'Cause then Impact and Charlotte would want that, and then even Renny and Matthias would want it, and I'd have to grant that because, hey, it's unfair for just one person to get it. Next thing you know, there'll be a main formation with thirteen units in it, ten of them with Enforcer support.

Try that and I'll kill the RP right now. You can run it yourself.

So sayeth the GM. Jerk.

'Sides, what're you gonna do with her in the formation? Talk to her? The whole battle? Gawd, the conversations...

Pierce: "Sophia, I have something very important to ask you."
Sophia: "Of course, Pierce."
Pierce: "Would you by chance have any Gray Poupon?" *giggle snort*
Sophia: "Armored, can a character attack herself?"
Armored: "Sure, I attack myself all the time."

[Dracorion]

What? Say in things? Voting rights? Fuck that. You'd, in essence, be simply getting two votes in this RP! If this were the side-RP, sure, she'd count as a main character, but if you introduce her into the main... yeah, no. I mean, sure, 'we could get second PCs as well', but I, for one, have no interest in doing so. And considering that there's never been any talk of getting two PCs... yeah, no.

I didn't mean a literal say in things. Just, y'know, slightly more than NPCs get. Come on man, you really think I would try to pull that off right in front of your face? Maybe right under your nose, but I would never have outright said it if I wanted to do it. Sophia wouldn't ever have counted as a second vote for me.

She could have a permanent spot...as your Enforcer. But no, I'm not allowing her to function as a PC like Pierce is. 'Cause then Impact and Charlotte would want that, and then even Renny and Matthias would want it, and I'd have to grant that because, hey, it's unfair for just one person to get it. Next thing you know, there'll be a main formation with thirteen units in it, ten of them with Enforcer support

But, but...

Arrrgh! I had so much planned for her! Kickass custom hold items, signature techniques, Xth-level pokemon and all sorts of cool shit! Now I have to come up with a specialty for her and fix her accordingly and arrrrrggggghhhh!!!

You do realize that if she's already a Battle Master, and she goes Demon Half later, she'll effectively be triple-classed and become the single most powerful character in the RP, as per NPCs getting levels in all of their classes at once?

Sigh.

Okay, you're right. Sophia's relegated to NPC duty. But I am unhappy.

Jerk.

Yes. Yes you are.

'Sides, what're you gonna do with her in the formation? Talk to her? The whole battle? Gawd, the conversations...

'Bout the same thing I do with Pierce, except twice?

Also, her color is more purple.

[Astral Harmony]

I didn't mean it like that. You can rank up Sophia as you like. She just won't fit in the primary section of the main formation (like the five PCs). If you want to give her a Specialty, you can do that as well.

[Dracorion]

Okay, I could go off and make as many assumptions as I like, or...

Can you elaborate?

[Astral Harmony]

I really need to?

*looks to make sure Bard isn't around*

Sigh.

*gets blasted in the back of the head with both barrels*

Ummm...ow? Anyways, it should be very simple. You rank up Sophia just like you rank up yourself. You could give her a Specialty, too. Otherwise, she's an Enforcer. The only thing I'm saying that you can't do which is probably what you most wanted her to do is to have her own deployment slot in the formation independant of the deployment slots already there.

And just to make it so blatantly clear that you won't ask me to elaborate again, here we go:

As you know, here's how the full DSS is laid out. First, we've got you five (PC Formation). The Battle Master, Medic, and Engineer (In-Formation Support) all fit in there as well. To back up the PCs, each has an Enforcer (PC Support) unit to switch out with. And then the Sniper and Destroyer (Out of Formation Support) units attack from beyond the formation.

What I think you're suggesting is to add a sixth slot for the PC Formation. This is the point where my Hammer of GMin' Wrath must come down, for the sake of balance and the sake of my sanity.

[Dracorion]

Great. I get that.

But does she also get custom items and Xth-level pokemon? Because if she doesn't, there's no reason not to treat her like a regular old NPC and have her max out three classes.

[Astral Harmony]

Yes, she gets custom accessories and Xth level Pokemon. Those are part of the PC classes. Treat her as a PC in this fashion.

And even if she was an NPC, I'd never let her max out three classes. She'd be stronger than Irene...by no less than 10 ranks!

[Geminex]

Hey, make a DMPC that has all 5 classes.
She would have all the levels.
All of them.

Also, I can't find the text document that included all the upgrade info, neither on the notes, nor in the thread. Help?

Edit: Also, gonna download Pesterchum, but can't think of an adequate Chum handle. Help?

[Menarker]

Here you are, my friend!

Keep in mind that there is one last part to the list after Demon upgrade, which tells at which levels characters get their Signature Techs and Love Tech. (The next one to come at level 8 and 9 respectively, still a long way from now.)

[Dracorion]

Here ya go, Gem. Menarker already gave you the text document, but here's (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=38275) the latest version of all the Umbral text files. Opening post in that thread.

Yes, she gets custom accessories and Xth level Pokemon. Those are part of the PC classes. Treat her as a PC in this fashion.

Oh, cool.

I guess for her specialty, the only way to go is to make her an Shock Trooper. I could make her a Destroyer, but I don't think you'd let me and we have Jeanette for a Gadgeteer Genius Destroyer already.

And even if she was an NPC, I'd never let her max out three classes. She'd be stronger than Irene...by no less than 10 ranks!

What if she were a Destroyer? Then it'd be justified!

[Geminex]

Kaaayyy...
I think I've got something.

I still have to polish the details..
But how about something like a 'support' system? Every turn, they act as one of their two (or, I guess, three) classes, primarily. If they're acting as a trainer, they attack with two pokemon and trainer attacks, if they act as a Slayer, they get their Slayer attack, and so on. Any other classes they have, support their action that turn. I'm not certain how, exactly, it'd probably involve just powering up their attacks, giving them extra effects, and so on.
The base character, the stats and 'passive' bonuses they got would probably depend on the class they're acting as that turn. I'd give an example, but my time's up. Still, would that work for you guys? Ultimately, it'd be more of an increase in versatility, than an increase in power, which is pretty much what we're looking for. Isn't it?

[Dracorion]

How exactly would a Slayer or Demon class power up pokemon attacks? The two are completely unrelated.

Unless you mean something like "Go Tyranitar, you can do it!" and that magically powers up its attack, in which case it's less to do with being a Slayer or Demon and more about being Renny.

Yyyyyeah, I'm thinking no.

[Menarker]

I thought it was all based on the number of actions you have during the turn, which I think is 2 at the moment? The way it seems to be be going...

Slayers: Can only attack once normally, but it is potent. Can also use an accessory or an item (got bigger item storage too!). Can use a technique if they got rage for it.

Pokebrids: Like Slayers except they trade in accessory for Paradigm.

Trainer/Snagger: Can attack up to twice if they got two pokemons (Thus their advantage is that they can spread out their attacks even though their attacks are not as powerful as a slayer on a 1:1 basis unless they are buffed or hitting for quad weakness or so.). Can use techniques if they got rage. Can choose to use an item/Snagball instead of attacking.

Demon: A more custom-made class but seems to have the implications of being close to a Slayer in how they can use their actions.


So I'd imagine that with something like Trainer/Slayer, is that they have an additional avenue to how they can spend their actions. They get a boost because they get a powerful Slayer attack on top of a pokemon attack (or any of their other actions). It's not as brute-force powerful as the slayer's later levels of slayer-attacking twice, but it can still have its purposes.

Although... AB, does a Level 3 Overblade with Double Attack attack twice in the same action or does have to use both actions to attack?

As for how trainers/snaggers can be of support if dual-classing with pokebrid or slayer? I'd imagine the pokemons act as a shield protecting the slayer from attacks.

To wit! Every turn, the slayer/trainer can choose:
A: To send out 2 pokemons, leaving him to the back and both his pokemons need to be defeated in the same turn before he can be the target of an attack, much in a manner similar to as if he was a pure trainer.
B: To send out one pokemon and themselves. The pokemon can still attack, but the slayer can attack too and he can't be targeted directly with attacks unless his co-partner is defeated or afflicted with something like sleep that turn. (I'd imagine that AOE might still do a bit of damage)

[Dracorion]

To wit! Every turn, the slayer/trainer can choose:
A: To send out 2 pokemons, leaving him to the back and both his pokemons need to be defeated in the same turn before he can be the target of an attack, much in a manner similar to as if he was a pure trainer.
B: To send out one pokemon and themselves. The pokemon can still attack, but the slayer can attack too and he can't be targeted directly with attacks unless his co-partner is defeated or afflicted with something like sleep that turn. (I'd imagine that AOE might still do a bit of damage)

But...

This is what I said! Minus that bit I striked out.

I don't

Wha

BUT

GGGHRRRKTT.

[Menarker]

Well, AB doesn't want us PCs to be actually count as Shock Troopers. Originally, my thoughts was that at all times, (except when the trainer only has 1 pokemon left), 2 pokemons will be out on the field, but we can choose among the three which two would attack, whether it is the slayer and one of his/her pokemons or 2 pokemons and the slayer hangs back. >_> It was there that you thought I was drunk.

Although I was feeling groggy at the time I wrote that...

Anyhow, that part you struck out was basically the one way I thought levels in trainer could benefit slayers, since a slayer has a larger item backpack and a better attack option to supplement a trainer, but trainers didn't seem to have anything else to offer but using pokemons as meat-shields and supplementary attacks like weather and what not.

[Dracorion]

Well, AB doesn't want us PCs to be actually count as Shock Troopers. Originally, my thoughts was that at all times, (except when the trainer only has 1 pokemon left), 2 pokemons will be out on the field, but we can choose among the three which two would attack, whether it is the slayer and one of his/her pokemons or 2 pokemons and the slayer hangs back. >_> It was there that you thought I was drunk.

Okay, okay, I think I get what you're saying now.

See, I thought you were saying that the Slayer would be on the field at the same time as his two pokemon, and therefore a target to enemy attacks.

What I forgot at the time was that trainers do the same thing. They're not really out on the field fighting and shit, but they can be targetted by enemy attacks. The Slayer wouldn't be any different.

But! When the Slayer actually wants to attack for themselves, they should have to recall one pokemon and take up a spot on the field.

Couple of things, AB:

Can PC Battle Masters use Trainer Attacks? I'm thinking no, unless the Trainer Attack does much less damage than a regular Slayer attack like if the Slayer was actively taking a spot on the field.

Also, how many items can PC Battle Masters carry? Three or six?

Anyhow, that part you struck out was basically the one way I thought levels in trainer could benefit slayers, since a slayer has a larger item backpack and a better attack option to supplement a trainer, but trainers didn't seem to have anything else to offer but using pokemons as meat-shields and supplementary attacks like weather and what not.

What you're suggesting is that the Slayer should be immune to all enemy attacks even when not actively participating. So the enemies couldn't just, say... put Pierce to sleep to make his pokemon go uncoordinated.

Which is wrong. I imagine Geminex would agree with me on that one. He's the one that's been trying to nerf Battle Masters since forever.

[Menarker]

I would assume that anyone with classes in Slayer would be able to carry 6 items.

Also, I didn't technically say that slayers or pokebrids who take classes in trainer or snagger would be immune to enemy attack. What I was saying that is that they can't be DIRECTLY targeted. Basically, it's like a pokemon is actively stepping in the line of fire or blocking a foe's path so as to protect the their actively fighting trainer. However, if the pokemon was somehow unable to do this whether by sleep, frozen, maybe paralysis, or something like that, or if the attack was an AOE attack that would hit both targets anyhow, then the slayer/trainer would still be injured.

As for trainer attack, are you asking if trainers who take ranks in pokebrid or slayers get improved Trainer attacks? Because if both their pokemons are attacking, nothing should stop them from using a normal trainer attack.

[Dracorion]

I would assume that anyone with classes in Slayer would be able to carry 6 items.

I'm not so sure.

Which reminds me, how many items can Pokebrids carry?

Also, I didn't technically say that slayers or pokebrids who take classes in trainer or snagger would be immune to enemy attack. What I was saying that is that they can't be DIRECTLY targeted. Basically, it's like a pokemon is actively stepping in the line of fire or blocking a foe's path so as to protect the their actively fighting trainer. However, if the pokemon was somehow unable to do this whether by sleep, frozen, maybe paralysis, or something like that, or if the attack was an AOE attack that would hit both targets anyhow, then the slayer/trainer would still be injured.

That's retarded.

As it is, trainers, PC, NPC or enemy, can be directly targetted by any kind of attacks. We just don't, y'know, do that because we risk all of their pokemon going rogue.

First you'd have to make it so trainers can't be targetted, and then you could make it so Slayers and Pokebrids can't be.

But, I don't agree with that at all. I'm okay with Trainers and Snaggers and all of them being vulnerable to attacks. It's not like we can abuse that anyway, since killing them only makes their pokemon go rogue.

At most, what we could do is take out most of a Trainer's team and then kill them, so that at that point it doesn't really matter if their pokemon go rogue.

Basically, Trainers and Snaggers, and Slayers and Pokebrids who take levels in those classes are already practically immune to enemy attacks (save for status effects like Sleep). I don't think we should make that particular feature official.

[Menarker]

I was just making a suggestion and clarifying when I thought you misunderstood me, but fair enough.

As for pokebrids and how many items they can carry, I thought it was 3 myself. I don't know though and it seems like the updates sheets don't even mention Slayers having access to 6 items instead of 3.

[Astral Harmony]

Overblades that can double attack actually have an additionally action in which they must attack. They can't use it to use another item, for example.

A PC Battle Master wouldn't be able to use a Trainer attack. I mean, why would they use a Trainer Attack when they can just...y'know...attack? Besides, these days it just doesn't feel like Trainer attacks do anything, especially not against bosses.

[Dracorion]

Thanks.

What about items?

Also, maybe we can buff trainer attacks in some way? Like, provide the trainers with weapons that cause certain status effects or debuffs? For example, Pierce is attacking with a Dragon Slave, so (totally forgot about this), half the time the targets he hits should take -1 Special Defense. Maybe we could buff trainer attacks so that, say, instead of a 50% chance of -1 Spec. Def, it'll be something like -2. And Charlotte could get a similar effect for her weapon. And Renny can get something like that if he ever gets a weapon.

[Menarker]

I'd think Gem would definately veto a boost of that magnitude simply because Trainer Attacks are free attacks that don't take away from any of the actions of the trainer. I personally never felt like Trainer Attacks really amounted to very much anyhow. I don't even include them normally when it comes to battle plans.

[Dracorion]

Then it comes down to whether we want to remove them or make them useful.

I vote making them useful.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I vote keeping them the same.

Thematics and whatnot.

Although I would like to put the jar of Phantomere's blood to some use...

[Dracorion]

I thought it was just Phantomere's ooze.

Anyway, no one's saying make them as strong as Slayer attacks. Just make them useful.

[Menarker]

Well, I don't mind making them useful, but the question is how to do so without making them too strong for a free action... Otherwise, I'd let everyone keep them, but I wouldn't care about them either way. (It's not like I would have Renny choose to pick up a weapon.)

The factors that make up a a Trainer Attack is...

A: Allows Trainer to hit enemy as a free action.
B: Attack is fairly weak.
C: Generates no Rage.

Although we also seem to have homebrewed the following...

D: Custom Item can be made for typing purpose when Trainer attacking.

So we if change it... some things we could consider...

1: Boosts its power minorly, but keep the rest as is.
2: Not making it a free action, but boost its power worth using and give Trainers an additional action to use Trainer Attack or an item or something like that. Basically, make it so the trainer attack can be replaced with a difference action. (Not advised unless you want to have people dualclassing to trainer for an extra action... although it takes 3 levels of trainer to do so. More or less unfair though to everyone who didn't start as a trainer.)
3: Making it gain the base amount of rage while keeping its power the same. (Which could end up being higher if the trainer is a Slayer (which gains 10 per attack) or a level 1 or 5 Breeder, Deva or Overblade.
4: Give additional effect of some sort, perhaps a Debuff or something like that. Probably nothing too strong.
5: Make its power boostable by rage or something.

[Dracorion]

Two things:

First of all, Trainer Attacks do generate Rage. So C and 3 are out.

About 3... AB already said Battle Masters (and Legion Mages and Battle Rogues and whatever) wouldn't get Trainer Attacks. So even if Trainer Attacks didn't generate Rage and we made them so, Battle Masters still couldn't use them.

Anyway, here's the new and, well... not so improved Sophia (yeah, I'm still butthurt), finalized barring AB having some objections. And he might about her Shock Trooper skill.



Name: Sophia Vernier
Alias: Prodigy
Age: 22
Gender: Female
Class: Battle Master (Slayer level 3, Trainer level 3; yes, I realize that we're only up to level 4 right now, but by the time she joins up, which is the beach mission, we'll be level 6)
Specialty: Shock Trooper
Weapon: A pair of high-tech kodachi.
Armor: Vernier armor ~ Sophia's invention. It can resist three types at the same time, and it can change one type with some delay. Basically, a suit that accomplishes the same purpose as Daphne (and functions just like her) for Sophia. It's a Daphne Suit!
Slayer Attacks: Wyrm Strike (Dragon) / Incendiary Bomb (Fire) / Lightning Slash (Electric) / Spinal Tap (Fighting) / Neuron Disruptor (Psychic) / Tainted Blade (Poison)
Slayer Defenses: Three defences. Varies.
Pokémon Registry:

Almighty Tsujimi (Genderless)
Ability: Indifference
Demon Rampage / Feral Beast
Lucifer Rising / Mist Ball
Crush Claw / Draco Meteor

Psychic/Flying Lugia (Genderless)
Ability: Pressure
Psychic / Aeroblast
Roost / Earthquake
Dragon Rush / Blizzard

Bug/Fighting Heracross (Male)
Ability: Guts
Megahorn / Close Combat
Brick Break / Bulk Up

Ghost Mismagius (Female)
Ability: Levitate
Psywave / Curse
Shadow Ball / Destiny Bond

Dark/Ice Weavile (Female)
Ability: Pressure
Night Slash / Poison Jab
Thief / Ice Punch

Appearance Sophie is a small purple-haired girl. She wears a cute pair of glasses over her blue eyes. She wears an unflattering combination of a yellow turtleneck that's a size too big and long brown skirt. Underneath, she hides a rockin' body complete with supple breasts. Under her clothes, she wears the Vernier Armor, a full body armored suit which adjusts perfectly to her curves and, on her left arm, the Governor, a brace with a screen interface with which she controls the Armor.

Backstory: Sophia is your regular genius Pokemon Researcher. Not particularly impressive, they're a dime a dozen in the Pokemon world, right? Regardless, Sophie was good enough to land herself a job in Ricewood Masterworks, and soon enough was leading her own projects. Among which were the Vernier Armor, a handy item that combines every piece of Slayer armor in one place, and the Governor, the wrist interface that controls both pieces of equipment. She also works closely with Jeanette Ricewood herself on several projects.

Her current assigment is research into the capabilities of a previously undiscovered pokemon. As it has no mouth and has shown no other ways of communication, no one is quite sure what it's name is. In lab testing, this pokemon proved not to be weak to any of the known elemental types, even after using Gravity to rule out a Ghost/Dark type. In fact, it doesn't seem to have any specific type. Currently, Sophie is testing it out in the field in real missions. When Rayleen split up from PATCA and formed the Crosswald Crusaders to investigate Burkmont, Jeanette volunteered Sophia to assist them.

Personality: Sophie is your classic high school geek, except she's smokin' hot (to be fair, point me at an ungly anime person and I'll show you hateful lies). As a result of a rather sheltered upbringing, Sophie suffers from crippling social awkwardness. She gets extremely nervous talking to people in any situation outside the lab. In fact, that's the only time she seems confident. In spite of this, she has a brilliant analytical mind and an unquenchable thirst for knowledge. Whenever she comes across something new, a fire lights up in her eyes and she launches into a rant on figuring out the how and why.

She is an avid fan of anime, manga and hentai, and owns a rather large collection of all three.

Shock Trooper Skill: Pacifier ~ The amount of Rage generated by Sophia's attacks (and her pokemon's) is deducted from the target's Rage.

Signature Technique: Test Amoeba ~ 70/100 RP, Sophie throws a test tube on the ground around four enemies. The amoeba occupies the space of four spots in the enemy formation. Enemies in those positions are Bound and take Badly Poisoned damage and cannot be switched out until the amoeba is destroyed. Enemies that switch into those spots will become trapped. The amoeba can only be destroyed by two Fire-type attacks.

Right, so. I gave her static offenses like NPC Slayers while keeping the ability to switch her defences. I hope that's okay.

Also, I'm really really not sure about her Shock Trooper Skill. And I just know Geminex is going to want to nerf it. But enemies don't really seem to rely on Rage as much as we do. Hell, we don't even get to see their Rage, so how am I supposed to know? Anyway, I'm perfectly fine with making it so only half the Rage she generates is deducted from the enemies, if you don't like it as it is now.

Or Geminex puts up a good argument.

[Menarker]

Well, ignoring any of my misgivings I have about whether you should be allowed an extra PC of sort, (since I might have ideas of my own character), I'll leave the specifics of your character up to AB.

Just out of curiousity, did you meant to give Sophia only 5 pokemons? The standard for a Shock Trooper thus far is 6 unless you're a Kimono with only 1.

[Dracorion]

Ah yes, that.

See, Sophia gets more ranks the same way we do. She has to pick one upgrade in one class at a time, y'know?

So she only has five pokemon because she's only a Trainer level 3.

[Astral Harmony]

I'm going to take a potato chip...and eat it!

Whoa, those're pretty good. I think I'll take some more.

...Wait, where was I? Oh, questions! Questions are good! Especially when I don't feel like blowing off these jerk forumites by playing City of Heroes.

Pierce: "What about items?"

"Also, maybe we can buff trainer attacks in some way? Like, provide the trainers with weapons that cause certain status effects or debuffs? For example, Pierce is attacking with a Dragon Slave, so (totally forgot about this), half the time the targets he hits should take -1 Special Defense. Maybe we could buff trainer attacks so that, say, instead of a 50% chance of -1 Spec. Def, it'll be something like -2. And Charlotte could get a similar effect for her weapon. And Renny can get something like that if he ever gets a weapon."

Armored: "Well, let's see. I imagine the dual classes would have the number of items of the class that can carry the most items. And I thought Pierce was attacking with the Staff of Phantomere? But I will consider upgrading the potential of Trainer attacks. You are right, I did give them to you, so they should indeed do something."

"Hee hee hee. Renny's weapon could be a Valentine Card. Damn love freak."

Charlotte: "Although I would like to put the jar of Phantomere's blood to some use..."

Armored: "Sexual lubricant?"

"Wait, I've got it! Oh, that's going to be good. I hope you're ready for your life to get a little...strange."

*Sophia's profile*

Armored: "Personally? I don't really see any issues with this one. Barring any counter-arguements, I have no problem approving it."

[Dracorion]

Armored: "Well, let's see. I imagine the dual classes would have the number of items of the class that can carry the most items. And I thought Pierce was attacking with the Staff of Phantomere? But I will consider upgrading the potential of Trainer attacks. You are right, I did give them to you, so they should indeed do something."

I actually meant for him to be attacking with the Dragon Slave. Less things resist Dragon than Ghost.

But I'll start specifying from now on.

Armored: "Sexual lubricant?"

"Wait, I've got it! Oh, that's going to be good. I hope you're ready for your life to get a little...strange."

The ooze is going to come to life and become Charlotte's life partner?

Wait no, that's Shannon.

Charlotte is going to accidentally eat the ooze and become a succubus? Or a spider demon or some such.

Or maybe it'll come to life, split into a thousand little cockroaches that are going to crawl around all over her and just won't die.

Armored: "Personally? I don't really see any issues with this one. Barring any counter-arguements, I have no problem approving it."

Cool! Thanks.

So now we wait for Geminex to wake up.

And Gem, before you say anything, we do need a test run with the new guidelines.

[Menarker]

Drac, could I possibly make a suggestion?

For Sophia's pokemon Mismagius, maybe replace Toxic with Curse? Several times, I have noticed that a foe that was difficult to beat up or attack like that Steelix way earlier could have been dealt with easily enough if a move that didn't rely on status, but still cut down health by percentage was available. It's basically a time delayed version of Super Fang that bypass buffs, isn't stopped by status protection, doesn't get stopped by immunity to normal or physical type attacks like we dealt with in a few foes, and works against all foes regardless of typing. Yes, Mismagius would lose a huge chunk of hitpoints as a cost, but against a really annoying foe that is typically immune status or Super Fang in general, it would serve even more use than Toxic. Would be awesome with Divide as well.

Also, why are you using Calm Mind? The only move it would work on is Shadow Ball. Psywave is basically an altered version of Seismic Toss or Nightshade where it always does damage equal to 0.5 up to 1.5x the level of the pokemon. So a level 100 pokemon using Psywave will deal damage anywhere from 50 to 150 damage typeless damage. Calm Mind would do nothing to boost it. And with your other move being Toxic or perhaps Curse, you're getting Calm Mind for the purpose of only boosting one move, and that's assuming Mismagius lives long enough? At least Mollesk has the defense to justify a buff move.

To replace Calm Mind, I would advise Will o Wisp. It has 100% of inflicting burn which cuts down a target's attack stat by half, barring a fire type or pokemon with Guts trait. Since Mismagius has low phsyical defense as opposed to her already very high special defense, this help protect her a bit as well as anyone else, while also doing slow damage to it on a turn by turn basis. And since Curse is not a status move, it won't conflict.

Of course, that's assuming you don't just decide to replace Psywave with Psychic or some other special attack move that can benefit from Calm Mind.

Alternatively, Destiny Bond can help ensure that when it dies from an attack, the foe that knocks it out dies too. Maybe it'll be changed so that it does a good percentage of damage to a boss tagged foe. Plus, I'm getting that Scapegoat move for Umbreon quite some time later on perhaps. It would combo well with it.



ANYHOW, I gotta go for work. Hope that helps.

[Geminex]

Goddammit, guys. Stop posting so much!

Sophie's ok, actually. I mean, sure. Enemies lose rage when they get attacked by her. It's plausible, and not too strong.
Though lemme clarify: Whenever a unit attacks, or gets attacked, they gain rage. Would Sophie's ability just deduct rage as well, cancelling out (more or less), or would it nullify the enemy's rage gain and then subtract rage? The latter might be ok as well, but it's situational...

Like, assume she's attacking an unfortunate enemy Slayer. Said Slayer gets 10 rage from getting attacked, normally, while Sophia deducts 10 rage from him through her attack. So, did you envision it so that the Slayer ends up with 0 rage? Or -10?

Re: Trainer attacks.
I really object to making them more powerful. Trainers already have more defensive and, arguably, more offensive power than Slayers. Why would you buff them even more? It's bad enough that the attack generates rage.
In fact, do they even generate rage? Cause the upgrade sheet says:
Attack is fairly weak and generates no Rage.
So, what is this? Do they, or do they not? And in the former case, rescind that shit or give pokebrids and slayers something comparable.

I was fine with trainer attacks when they were still being thematic, but if you're gonna let them have anything more than a minor effect on combat, it can't come for free! And looking at the upgrade schedule, it seems fairly balanced for the next few levels. Maybe when you go Breeder level 2 or 3 but until then... I'd be dismayed to find trainers getting this for free.

And why're you so opposed to my idea? It's more elegant than the combined-action thing you guys are advocating. Much simpler, certainly. And it allows every combination of classes, at equal power.

And Drac, I was thinking of it less as Pierce using his Slayer action to EMPOWER TYRANITAR THROUGH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP and more like:
Tyranitar, Earthquake!
Metagross, Earthquake!
*gets out Titanic fist*
Hammertime, motherfuckers!

In short, the primary class attacks, the secondary class(es) support it. I'm not sure how, exactly, but I'm thinking that it either acts as a basic attack-strength increase, gives extra Stab, gives extra status effects, or a combination of the three.

[Dracorion]

For Sophia's pokemon Mismagius, maybe replace Toxic with Curse?

Sure, Toxic can go to hell.

Also, why are you using Calm Mind? The only move it would work on is Shadow Ball. Psywave is basically an altered version of Seismic Toss or Nightshade where it always does damage equal to 0.5 up to 1.5x the level of the pokemon. So a level 100 pokemon using Psywave will deal damage anywhere from 50 to 150 damage typeless damage. Calm Mind would do nothing to boost it. And with your other move being Toxic or perhaps Curse, you're getting Calm Mind for the purpose of only boosting one move, and that's assuming Mismagius lives long enough? At least Mollesk has the defense to justify a buff move.

Well, I don't quite remember why, it's been a while since I picked her pokemons' moves. But I'm guessing it's because she has no other decent attack moves, and I didn't want to give her another status move.

Of course, that's assuming you don't just decide to replace Psywave with Psychic or some other special attack move that can benefit from Calm Mind.

Mismagius doesn't get Psychic. Sure, she has other decent attacking moves, but none that Sophia's other pokemon can't already replicate.

Alternatively, Destiny Bond can help ensure that when it dies from an attack, the foe that knocks it out dies too. Maybe it'll be changed so that it does a good percentage of damage to a boss tagged foe. Plus, I'm getting that Scapegoat move for Umbreon quite some time later on perhaps. It would combo well with it.

I think I'll go with Destiny Bond.

Sophie's ok, actually. I mean, sure. Enemies lose rage when they get attacked by her. It's plausible, and not too strong.
Though lemme clarify: Whenever a unit attacks, or gets attacked, they gain rage. Would Sophie's ability just deduct rage as well, cancelling out (more or less), or would it nullify the enemy's rage gain and then subtract rage? The latter might be ok as well, but it's situational...

Like, assume she's attacking an unfortunate enemy Slayer. Said Slayer gets 10 rage from getting attacked, normally, while Sophia deducts 10 rage from him through her attack. So, did you envision it so that the Slayer ends up with 0 rage? Or -10?

Honestly? I didn't think about that. It's hard to think about enemy Rage when you can't see it.

But yeah, I'd rather it nullify the enemy's Rage gain and deduct.

So, AB, to clarify: I wanted Sophie's Shock Trooper skill to nullify the target's Rage gain for being hit and the amount of Rage she generates would be deducted as well. So basically the enemy wouldn't get Rage and they'd lose some, too.

Re: Trainer attacks.
I really object to making them more powerful. Trainers already have more defensive and, arguably, more offensive power than Slayers. Why would you buff them even more? It's bad enough that the attack generates rage.
In fact, do they even generate rage? Cause the upgrade sheet says:

So, what is this? Do they, or do they not? And in the former case, rescind that shit or give pokebrids and slayers something comparable.

Well, I think we adressed the discrepancy between the upgrade sheet and what actually goes on in the RP.

Or maybe not, I don't remember.

But if we did, we somehow were okay with Trainer Attacks generating Rage. I believe in exchange we gave Slayers and Pokebrids double Rage, remember?

I was fine with trainer attacks when they were still being thematic, but if you're gonna let them have anything more than a minor effect on combat, it can't come for free! And looking at the upgrade schedule, it seems fairly balanced for the next few levels. Maybe when you go Breeder level 2 or 3 but until then... I'd be dismayed to find trainers getting this for free.

There's a difference between "minor" and "non-existent". They're non-existent now. Maybe my suggestion was far too strong, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't buff Trainer Attacks a bit.

And why're you so opposed to my idea? It's more elegant than the combined-action thing you guys are advocating. Much simpler, certainly. And it allows every combination of classes, at equal power.

And Drac, I was thinking of it less as Pierce using his Slayer action to EMPOWER TYRANITAR THROUGH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP and more like:
Tyranitar, Earthquake!
Metagross, Earthquake!
*gets out Titanic fist*
Hammertime, motherfuckers!

In short, the primary class attacks, the secondary class(es) support it. I'm not sure how, exactly, but I'm thinking that it either acts as a basic attack-strength increase, gives extra Stab, gives extra status effects, or a combination of the three.

Meh. I just don't like it. Maybe I just prefer being able to fight at the same time as my pokemon, is that so wrong?

It's not like the classes are unbalanced as is. They all seem pretty equal to me.

I don't think your idea is simpler than how it is now, and I don't think it's better either. If the classes are fine as it is, which I believe they are, why change it?

I realize you're butthurt about the fact that you chose not to get pokemon, but you get to go Full Demon if you choose! Basically, take all the skills you wanted for your Magatama and put nine ranks in them.

Or hell, you could go only go as far as Demon Half and go Overblade, in which case you'd get two attacks, immunities to certain statuses and types, and awesome Rage generation.

As for your example, what happens if Pierce doesn't have the Titanic Fist equipped?

[Astral Harmony]

I'm not talking about any major buffing to Trainer Attacks. Their existence is based solely on simple logic. I figured that if someone's Pokemon beat someone or something within an inch of its life, it only made sense that the Trainer himself had a weapon, like a pistol or length of pipe or something similar, to deal the final blow and do away with the annoyance of having to sit out the enemy's phase and be attacked just so they can use a Pokemon's action the next turn in order to beat someone who, more or less, was only alive because the Trainer's Pokemon's attacks just couldn't do one or two hitpoints worth of damage more the last turn.

One of the things I might think of doing is taking the Trainer Attacks and making them my business. Like, at the end of the Watchmen Phase, I take control of the Trainer Attacks and aim them at opponents that only have a sliver of health left just to get them out of the battle. But the last thing I want to do is take control of PCs.

I still approve of Sophia's Shock Trooper skill, although I will point out that there's no such thing as negative Rage. Then I'd have to do something silly like create a new status effect called Demoralized in which the unit just doesn't feel up to scrappin' anymore and strolls away to buy a churro or some shit.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn.

[Dracorion]

One of the things I might think of doing is taking the Trainer Attacks and making them my business. Like, at the end of the Watchmen Phase, I take control of the Trainer Attacks and aim them at opponents that only have a sliver of health left just to get them out of the battle. But the last thing I want to do is take control of PCs.

Well, if it meant not having to guess who's about to die...

I still approve of Sophia's Shock Trooper skill, although I will point out that there's no such thing as negative Rage. Then I'd have to do something silly like create a new status effect called Demoralized in which the unit just doesn't feel up to scrappin' anymore and strolls away to buy a churro or some shit.

Yeah, 's cool. No negative Rage.

Though, speaking of status effects...

See, I've been thinking. There's one status effect from the games that is completely useless in this battle system. Infatuation.

So I, considering there are already buffed up versions of a couple of status effects (Plasmaburn, Deep Freeze, and Bad Poison), I figured I'd come up with a buffed up Infatuation.

Love (Status effect, mental)
The affected foe will not attack the target they are in Love with while this status is in effect.

Simple, eh? And it can't possibly be overpowered because it still only one enemy that won't be attacking one ally. It would probably work best with Signature Techniques and shit that inflict one enemy with Love on several allies at the same time, or inflict a few foes with Love on a few allies.

And of course, because this is Pokemon Umbral and not a kid's game (we have lesbians), it doesn't actually have to be restricted to the opposite gender. Could work on targets of the same sex and even genderless.

And OH GODDAMNIT I JUST CAME UP WITH A WAY TO MAKE AN INSTANT HAREM FUCK

Anyway, yeah, I decided to give AB another proverbial bullet to shoot us in the head with.

On a similar note, does Plasmaburn reduce the target's attack by 50% like Burn does?

I've been thinking about Paralysis too. I mean, on one hand 25% chance that one target won't attack isn't much in this RP. On the other, Thunder Wave is about the most common move there is. Still, no one ever uses it. So I'll start thinking about what to do with Paralysis.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn.

This.

This is perfect!

Not only because you've incorporated my Technique idea for Charlotte (except it should be Kick the Puppy), but because it gives us so much more that we can do.

Though, it's going to be tricky for Pierce. I mean, Charlotte can abuse her pokemon to inspire them, Renny can give them some verbal encouragement. Except if Pierce tries to encourage his pokemon, it's instantly gay. And he won't abuse them either.

Still, I'll come up with something.

[Menarker]

Glad to know that my advice about Mismagius seems to have been appreciated. ^^



In short, the primary class attacks, the secondary class(es) support it. I'm not sure how, exactly, but I'm thinking that it either acts as a basic attack-strength increase, gives extra Stab, gives extra status effects, or a combination of the three.

I would probably object to this simply because Renny as I'm building him is not primarily a pokemon trainer later on if we judge using upgrade charts, but he'd use all his abilities, directly fighting or pokemon fighting as much as feasible.

If anything, my build is going to be (in no particular order of levels and subject to change):
Pokemon Breeder 1 (6 levels of Pokemon Trainer)
Pokebrid 1 (1 level of Pokebrid)
Overblade 3 (8 levels of Slayer)

If anything, you could say that as Renny is growing up, he is hiding behind his pokemons less and less (out of actually having the ability to contribute on his own merits) but still trust them to defend him and his loved ones. And no, I'm not having him go Half-Demon at all. I'll leave that to Pierce/Impact and anyone else.

Meh. I just don't like it. Maybe I just prefer being able to fight at the same time as my pokemon, is that so wrong?

Not wrong at all! I totally want to have Renny do that myself.


Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn.

Awesome. ^^ However, trying to think what sort of effect Renny cheering up his pokemon might have, especially if it only targets his pokemon and its effect should be "minor". I'd be hesitant to have it do anything that would duplicate an effect of a move such as Safeguard or Haze (even if its single-target).

And before any of you say it... no, Renny the "Love Freak" is not going to be using the improved infatuation, Love! He doesn't believe that bewitchment equals real love or compassion!

EDIT: Drac, maybe think less about how Pierce (or anyone else) would respond to his pokemons, but how they specifically trained them? For example, I could imagine that Charlotte with her pack of hound-dogs could have "trained" them to chase and pursue their targets, leading her targets running away toward a designated location... like in her waiting hands. In-game, that could translate to her "Trainer Tactic" being to have her pokemons chase and scare foes into moving to a different location, thus altering the enemy formation, making it better for us to use AOE attacks on them.

Someone who train several bird pokemons could train them to constantly divebomb and swoop at a particular target sequentially, thus hampering their ability to aim properly. In game, this can translate to an accuracy drop on the foe's part.

I guess with Renny, Togekiss with his blessed charm, Swampert's natural vitality, Mollesk heavy armor, Umbreon's resilient defense, Magnezone's steel body and Shaymin's natural purity could all translate to a sort of insight to resisting status conditions or something like that...

[Astral Harmony]

About Love: I always kind of figured that Domination was the buffed up form of Infatuation. But I suppose we could do some lovey dovey crap as well.

About a Harem: Pierce can not use Love to make women sleep with him. The same with Impact's domination powers.

However, I will allow you to have funny dreams about catching women as Pokemon and making them use moves for your own twisted desires...

Pierce: "Here it comes! Chizuru, use Swallow!"
Chizuru: *uses Crunch instead*
Pierce: "Critical...hit. It's super...effective..." *passes out*
*Pierce wakes up*
Pierce: "Maybe she'll do what I say if I collect some gym badges."

Moving right along, now...

About Plasmaburn: Plasmaburn was kind of a one-time thing. Cerulean Wildfire's one ace in the hole, if you will. It may see a return (actually, I'm damn certain of it), and yes, it does reduce attack by 50%.

About Trainer Action: Trainer Attack will now hence be referred to as Trainer Action, and don't be concerned if you can't come up with any for the Trainer him/herself. You could always have your love interest do something.

About PC Battle Masters: I agree that all three units should attack, so let's work on something together. Our main concern is Geminex. No, I'm not being insulting for once in my life, he does a good job in promoting balance.

I think the best way to make it happen is to reserve it only for PCs who...oh, have five ranks in both Trainer and Slayer. We'll start off from that and work our way to a better suggestion.

[Dracorion]

I would probably object to this simply because Renny as I'm building him is not primarily a pokemon trainer later on if we judge using upgrade charts, but he'd use all his abilities, directly fighting or pokemon fighting as much as feasible.

If anything, my build is going to be (in no particular order of levels and subject to change):
Pokemon Breeder 1 (6 levels of Pokemon Trainer)
Pokebrid 1 (1 level of Pokebrid)
Overblade 3 (8 levels of Slayer)

... What, seriously?

Awesome. ^^ However, trying to think what sort of effect Renny cheering up his pokemon might have, especially if it only targets his pokemon and its effect should be "minor". I'd be hesitant to have it do anything that would duplicate an effect of a move such as Safeguard or Haze (even if its single-target).

Minor stat boost, perhaps some healing?

And before any of you say it... no, Renny the "Love Freak" is not going to be using the improved infatuation, Love! He doesn't believe that bewitchment equals real love or compassion!

But I wonder how many people will use it on Renny, hmm?

EDIT: Drac, maybe think less about how Pierce (or anyone else) would respond to his pokemons, but how they specifically trained them? For example, I could imagine that Charlotte with her pack of hound-dogs could have "trained" them to chase and pursue their targets, leading her targets running away toward a designated location... like in her waiting hands. In-game, that could translate to her "Trainer Tactic" being to have her pokemons chase and scare foes into moving to a different location, thus altering the enemy formation, making it better for us to use AOE attacks on them.

Hmmm... Maybe Pierce could tell his pokemon to "combine" their attacks, adding a little extra oomph to each pokemon's attack.

About Love: I always kind of figured that Domination was the buffed up form of Infatuation. But I suppose we could do some lovey dovey crap as well

Domination... doesn't really make sense like that. One thing is making an opponent get a hard-on for you. Another thing entirely is breaking their will utterly through means that don't necessarily include seduction.

About a Harem: Pierce can not use Love to make women sleep with him. The same with Impact's domination powers.

I'll admit, the thought did cross my mind. But I would never cheat like that. No, when I get my harem (note: when), it'll be perfectly legitimate.

However, I will allow you to have funny dreams about catching women as Pokemon and making them use moves for your own twisted desires...

Pierce: "Here it comes! Chizuru, use Swallow!"
Chizuru: *uses Crunch instead*
Pierce: "Critical...hit. It's super...effective..." *passes out*
*Pierce wakes up*
Pierce: "Maybe she'll do what I say if I collect some gym badges."

Pierce is already going to have those, actually.

Y'know, minus the Crunching.

About Trainer Action: Trainer Attack will now hence be referred to as Trainer Action, and don't be concerned if you can't come up with any for the Trainer him/herself. You could always have your love interest do something.

Hmmmmm...

About PC Battle Masters: I agree that all three units should attack, so let's work on something together. Our main concern is Geminex. No, I'm not being insulting for once in my life, he does a good job in promoting balance.

I think the best way to make it happen is to reserve it only for PCs who...oh, have five ranks in both Trainer and Slayer. We'll start off from that and work our way to a better suggestion.

What does this mean, exactly? That until someone has five ranks in Slayer and Trainer they have to function like Geminex's suggestion, and after they can function the way Battle Masters do now?

[Menarker]

*Renny's upgrade List*

... What, seriously?



Yes, seriously. Is there something you think is a problem tactically? Or you just shocked that all along you thought Renny would be a complete Pokemon Breeder and that turned out to be totally false? ^,^


But I wonder how many people will use it on Renny, hmm?


I admit, there is something to that line of thought that is 3 parts intriguing, 2 parts worrisome and 5 parts hardcore.



About PC Battle Masters: I agree that all three units should attack, so let's work on something together. Our main concern is Geminex. No, I'm not being insulting for once in my life, he does a good job in promoting balance.



What does this mean, exactly? That until someone has five ranks in Slayer and Trainer they have to function like Geminex's suggestion, and after they can function the way Battle Masters do now?

I'm confused too. Does this imply that those who hit level 5 trainer or slayers effectively become Shock Troopers and the Battle Master and both pokemons can attack at the same time? Or am I misunderstanding something? Although, I'd feel that waiting until level 10 at earliest is a bit late, since it taken a long time to reach this point and we're only at level 4. I'd probably push for 4, maybe 3 levels of Slayer and Trainer.

Hmmm... I need a new title for my triple classing. :3 Although AB did suggest Red Mage as in "Renny the Red Mage" quite a long time ago as a joke due to the immense diversity that is similar to our infamous 8bit example of Red Mage. (Not actually thinking that seriously yet.)

[Dracorion]

Yes, seriously. Is there something you think is a problem tactically? Or you just shocked that all along you thought Renny would be a complete Pokemon Breeder and that turned out to be totally false? ^,^

No.

Anyway, who am I to complain? I need to discuss this with Geminex, but I may just have Pierce go Slayer 1 and Full Demon 2.

No, that would not mean Renny will eventually be a better fighter than Pierce.

[Menarker]

No, that would not mean Renny will eventually be a better fighter than Pierce.

That remains to be seen. Renny might become a better fighter in a technical sense, although Pierce might have more "strength/power" in terms of his demonic heritage. It really remains to be seen, since the demon upgrades have not been fleshed out in any manner aside from the first level.

[Dracorion]

Maybe I'm not making myself clear.

"Not a snowball's chance in hell."

Anyway, your triple class should be called something like War Monger. Yes, I know it's the exact opposite of Renny, BUT, class names aren't supposed to cater to a specific character. They're supposed to apply generally, y'know?

[Menarker]

Adding one rank of pokebrid turns a War God/dess into a Warmonger?

Let's see the rankings so far...

Normal Classes:
Pokemon Trainer and Slayer makes you a Battle Master. (Tons of examples)
Pokemon Trainer and Pokebrid makes you a Legion Mage. (Rachel and Whitney)
Pokebrid and Slayer makes you a Pokesoldier. (Melanie.)

Slayer and Snagger makes you a Battle Rogue (AB proposed NPC)

No demon classes exist yet ingame except for the Kimonos who still count as Battle Masters.
No snagger classes exist yet ingame.

Upgraded Classes:

Pokemon Breeders and Overblades become War God/dess (Upgraded Battle Master)
Devas and Pokemon Breeders become ???. (No examples. Upgraded form of Legion Mage)
Devas and Overblades become ???. (Upgraded form of Pokesoldier)

No one has triple classed yet with either the basic classes or the upgraded classes.

[Dracorion]

Adding one rank of pokebrid turns a War God/dess into a Warmonger?

Yes.

Let's see the rankings so far...

Normal Classes:
Pokemon Trainer and Slayer makes you a Battle Master. (Tons of examples)
Pokemon Trainer and Pokebrid makes you a Legion Mage. (Rachel and Whitney)
Pokebrid and Slayer makes you a ???. (No one has become a Slayer and Pokebrid yet.)

No demon classes exist yet ingame except for the Kimonos who still count as Battle Masters.
No snagger classes exist yet ingame.

Upgraded Classes:

Pokemon Breeders and Overblades become War God/dess (Upgraded Battle Master)
Devas and Overblades become Pokesoldiers. (Upgraded form of ???)
Devas and Pokebrids become ???. (No examples. Upgraded form of Legion Mage)

Actually, Melanie's a Slayer/Pokebrid, not Overblade/Deva. So what we don't know is what Deva/Overblades are called. Slayer/Pokebrids are Pokesoldiers.

Also, I assume when you say Devas and Pokebrids you mean Devas and Breeders.

Anyway, remember when AB first posted the characters that would make up the Crosswald Crusaders? One of them was a Battle Rogue (Slayer/Snagger).

No one has opted for triple classing yet with either the basic classes or the upgraded classes.

What's your point?

[Menarker]

I was listing the rankings thus far, and edited it with your comments.

I was basically noting that anyone who is a pokebrid and a trainer gains the classification of a Mage. Although a slayer and a pokebrid becomes a Soldier. Trying to think if there is a logical title for the combination of the two (triple-classing), aside from Red Mage.

[Dracorion]

I don't know if we have to keep the title contained to two words. But I am going to try to keep it that way with my suggestions.

[Geminex]

I would probably object to this simply because Renny as I'm building him is not primarily a pokemon trainer later on if we judge using upgrade charts, but he'd use all his abilities, directly fighting or pokemon fighting as much as feasible.

Eh, fair enough. But really, that's the best think I can think of. I think whatever system we come up with should be
a) Simple
b) Applicable to every possible combination of classes
c) Grant the same amount of "power" to every possible combination of classes
d) At least mildly logical.

Our current model really doesn't fulfill many of those criteria. But hey, keep suggesting stuff. We'll find some way to do it, and we still have a few missions. I'm not desperate to find something.
What does bug me... is this:

Pokemon Breeder 1 (6 levels of Pokemon Trainer)
Pokebrid 1 (1 level of Pokebrid)
Overblade 3 (8 levels of Slayer)
Seriously, man? Overblade 3? Honestly?
How come? It's more or less completely out-of-character. More than half his levels into Slayer, that really presents a major, major shift. How come?

As for the "Red Mage" thing...
There's two ways of interpreting that. On one hand there's the way that's entirely in keeping with declaring one's character "quite evocative of the RP" and interpreting threats as attention. It involves incredible versatility, of which I actually think there's minimal evidence.

On the other hand there's just the implication that you like to cheat a lot. Which do you think it is?

Drac... Full demon? Hokaaay...
I'd prefer if you didn't take that course, really. Partly cause we're gonna need to justify it somehow (and you can't use the justification I'll use), partly because I think you could really use the Slayer levels. Slayer 1? 3 Weapons, no accessories? Not much help.

And finally, Trainer actions: Their purpose was to be thematic-though-not-very-useful. If we upgrade the degree to which they actually contribute, I'd really find it fair if that it should cost an upgrade. Or, well, not a full upgrade, but that it be given to them at level-up, in exchange for something else.

[Dracorion]

Seriously, man? Overblade 3? Honestly?
How come? It's more or less completely out-of-character. More than half his levels into Slayer, that really presents a major, major shift. How come?

As for the "Red Mage" thing...
There's two ways of interpreting that. On one hand there's the way that's entirely in keeping with declaring one's character "quite evocative of the RP" and interpreting threats as attention. It involves incredible versatility, of which I actually think there's minimal evidence.

On the other hand there's just the implication that you like to cheat a lot. Which do you think it is?

It did cross my mind that Menarker was just min-maxing (and by cross my mind I mean, what else could he possibly have been doing?). But what the hell, right? We can't stop him, and if it turns out overpowered we'll nerf his ass when the time comes.

Drac... Full demon? Hokaaay...
I'd prefer if you didn't take that course, really. Partly cause we're gonna need to justify it somehow (and you can't use the justification I'll use), partly because I think you could really use the Slayer levels. Slayer 1? 3 Weapons, no accessories? Not much help.

Well, see.

I'm pretty set on giving Pierce Breeder level 2. Which leaves him eight levels of whatever. He could get Demon Half 5 and Slayer 3. Ruin-type weapon and armor and accessories are nice and all, but the really good Slayer upgrades come at level 4 (six weapons and STAB).

I suppose I could at least get Slayer 2 and one level of Full Demon. Or I could get Slayer 4 and Demon Half 4, except I'd really like to max Demon Half.

About accessories, has Impact even used them at all this mission? They're supposed to be free the first time, only costing 50 RPs to recharge after being used.

And finally, Trainer actions: Their purpose was to be thematic-though-not-very-useful. If we upgrade the degree to which they actually contribute, I'd really find it fair if that it should cost an upgrade. Or, well, not a full upgrade, but that it be given to them at level-up, in exchange for something else.

Like I said. Yes, they're supposed to be thematic-but-not-very-useful. But as they are now, they are completely useless. We just want to buff them up a small bit so that they can climb up to not-very-useful.


Anyway, I take it you're okay with Sophia's Shock Trooper skill nullifying Rage gain and deducting it from the enemy, so I can put her bio next to Pierce's and make it official?

[Geminex]

Like I said. Yes, they're supposed to be thematic-but-not-very-useful. But as they are now, they are completely useless. We just want to buff them up a small bit so that they can climb up to not-very-useful.


Anyway, I take it you're okay with Sophia's Shock Trooper skill nullifying Rage gain and deducting it from the enemy, so I can put her bio next to Pierce's and make it official?
Oh very well. To both of those. Worst case, we can add a rage cost to the Trainer actions.

And Shock Trooper, sure. Not all that much stronger than Harliette, weaker even, depending on the situation.

And sure he’s used Accessories this mission. Last battle. He had two Adrenal boosts, he buffed himself to +2 in all stats as soon as pokegeddon showed up. Mind you, he died to Wildfire soon after, but still. He totally used them.
Though I don’t suppose any of you thought it might be useful to buff him again this battle? No? So he's been fighting with two unused Adrenal boosts hanging from his belt?
...
Goddammit, guys.

[Dracorion]

And sure he’s used Accessories this mission. Last battle. He had two Adrenal boosts, he buffed himself to +2 in all stats as soon as pokegeddon showed up. Mind you, he died to Wildfire soon after, but still. He totally used them.

Actually, Adrenaline Surges don't stack.

Though I don’t suppose any of you thought it might be useful to buff him again this battle? No? So he's been fighting with two unused Adrenal boosts hanging from his belt?
...
Goddammit, guys.

We did it on purpose.

[Menarker]

Seriously, man? Overblade 3? Honestly?
How come? It's more or less completely out-of-character. More than half his levels into Slayer, that really presents a major, major shift. How come?


I already explained this.

"If anything, you could say that as Renny is growing up, he is hiding behind his pokemons less and less (out of actually having the ability to contribute on his own merits) but still trust them to defend him and his loved ones. And no, I'm not having him go Half-Demon at all. I'll leave that to Pierce/Impact and anyone else."

I always intended that Renny would go slayer at some point and fight alongside his pokemon like a Battle Master. Remember when I asked you to have a little section of the RP stating that Impact has trained Renny a little in being a Slayer? Was working toward that RP wise.

Yes, I originally intended that Renny would have more levels in Pokemon Breeder as an end result, but still have quite a few levels in Slayers/Overblade. Then AB said we'd only have 15 levels of upgrades total. So, naturally I have to trim things down a bit to what is "effective", while still keeping to my roleplay as much as possible (otherwise, I'd probably max Overblade)

Renny, as is now, has truly valiant and noble thoughts and intention, but he is prone to fear at times. (Screamed his head off at zombies during second mission and is more than a little worried with the implication that snipers could attack him directly.) Naturally, he is justified in feeling scared since he's very young and his only skillset is support and being a trainer and has no actual manner of self defense. Plus, he had considered quitting before due to the danger, plus that it is hurting his pokemons (Togekiss being dominated and Lasered!) However, the things that Faynoc does is truly horrific and unforgivable. Thus in the interest of fending for himself and having less reason to fear anything, while being able to protect his friends (PCs/NPCs/Pokemons) and stop Faynoc and people like him, he'd do well to improve himself.



As for the "Red Mage" thing...
There's two ways of interpreting that. On one hand there's the way that's entirely in keeping with declaring one's character "quite evocative of the RP" and interpreting threats as attention. It involves incredible versatility, of which I actually think there's minimal evidence.

On the other hand there's just the implication that you like to cheat a lot. Which do you think it is?

I was thinking more of the Final Fantasy's perception that a Red Mage is a combination of a Fighter (Pokesoldier) and Mage (Legion Mage) in terms of the naming scheme. Looking at TVtropes though, a Red Mage is more classified by having multiple schools of magic. A character who studies magic AND fight with weapons or so is usually classified as a sort of Magic Knight. (Although the variation that tend to cast healing or buff spells is more referred to as a Church Militant ala a Paladin)

[Dracorion]

Think of it this way, Menarker.

If Renny only goes Breeder 1, and Pierce goes Breeder 2, that means Pierce would have a stronger bond with his pokemon than Renny.

stuff

I know what Geminex has to say about this.

It'll be fun to watch.

I was thinking more of the Final Fantasy's perception that a Red Mage is a combination of a Fighter (Pokesoldier) and Mage (Legion Mage) in terms of the naming scheme. Looking at TVtropes though, a Red Mage is more classified by having multiple schools of magic. A character who studies magic AND fight with weapons or so is usually classified as a sort of Magic Knight. (Although the variation that tend to cast healing or buff spells is more referred to as a Church Militant ala a Paladin)

So Renny would be more of a Paladin, with a bit of Magic Knight.

Oh man, oh man, you know what's kinda sorta like a Paladin? Knight Templar.

Welp, that decides it. Renny is going to become the crazy Knight Templar of this RP. AB, make it happen.

[Menarker]

Hehe, you're ignoring that Renny errs way more toward Good. Knight Templars tend to lean way more toward law.

But hey, sounds like a nifty class title at any rate, even if Paladin suits Renny better.


As for Pierce and his pokemons, having a higher Breeder class doesn't mean that he bonds better with his pokemon (Can you imagine if Charlotte got Breeder 5?), but that their particular manner of bonding/training has brought out the pokemon's inner strength better. Meaning that when compared to Renny, Pierce has done better in bringing out more of the individual strength and motivation. Renny might be seen as slightly hampering their growth by being too coddling or protective. Whether Renny or Pierce cares for their pokemon more or in the same way is strictly in-character.
But yes, Pierce would be the better trainer in generally all cases (the other cases are those where you make tactical mistakes on stuff like Move Choices). Enjoy that victory.

[Dracorion]

Better yet, Pierce will be a better fighter than Renny too!

[Menarker]

Ok, now THAT is completely trolling without supporting evidence! ^,^

By the time we hit level 15, If Pierce gets Breeder 2, then Renny would have 9 classes of "Fighter" (8 Slayer and 1 Pokebrid) as opposed to Pierce's 8 levels of Demon or Slayer (However you mix it).

Mind you, in the interest of balance that Gem is promoting which I agreed to, you do realize that Demons just means more customization in their abilities and that demonhood doesn't automatically mean that you are improportionally stronger with equal or less ranks than someone who has more ranks as a strictly fighting class. As things stand, Renny would technically be the better fighter 1 on 1 (although you'd have powerful single hitting techniques with that Aura Blade and so).

[Dracorion]

Oh, it is so on.

Pistols at dawn, good sir!

[Menarker]

>_> So, you're not confident in your fighting skills that you so brag about and rather opt for a cheap shot as with a common lowly pistol?

I propose an epic fencing duel, or you will become the RP's designated Cosmic Butt Monkey!

=P

Anyhow, gotta get going for work.

[Dracorion]

You dare?

Fisticuffs at dawn, sir!

[Bard The 5th LW]

Hey Drac, if you pay me $5 I'll help you cheat.