Pokemon Umbral Theatre 1: Where All the Lurkers...Ah...Lurk

[Astral Harmony]

To celebrate the change in titles for the discussion thread, I'll start doing two pictures. If I can. To begin with, something funny...

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral24.jpg

And then Dracorian's awesome dream given form...

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral34.jpg

Right, then. Now that that's over, I'll start addressing all the class suggestions...at least the ones I noticed. Sorry if I missed one or six.

1) Change Paradigm Shift so it costs 20 rage each use and you start with three uses, instead of you having to pay the 60 rage up front when you just want to use one turn's worth to cast a technique. That'll make the rage cost to you more mangagable (Thus the Deva 4 upgrade of making Paradigm shift last 5 turns instead gives you 2 extra uses.) Also allow rage gain to be possible when attacking or being attacked. (Level 1)
2) Increased Item storage so you can carry more Rage rockets or healing items. (Level 2-3 upgrade?)
3) Pokebrids can equip pokemon items much like real pokemons can. Let's allow a custom item for you at level 4 (now) or 5 if you intend to go Pokebrid next level too. You can probably come up with an item that gives you rage or helps protect you or alter your moves to something damn useful.
4) Change Sync Techs so you don't NEED to be in Paradigm shift to use it, but that it gains an immense boost of some sort if you are in them, like an additional valuable effect or just plain more power. I'd be iffy about lowering costs because I still think spamming techniques should really should only be done in more ideal situations. With the above changes, you could enter Paradigm Shift and cast two Sync Tech if you had the maximum of 100 rage.
5) Maybe an extra action specifically for status moves like buffing or status ailments or something like that at higher levels. (Kinda like a Double Attack, but not quite) Of course, I'd suggest that Protect/Detect be left out of the picture. Otherwise, you could feasibly cast Protect every turn or two while still being able to attack.

Proposal One: So, each turn in a Paradigm Shift costs 20 Rage and the Pokebrid/Deva pays for all turns up front? Well, if I'm interpreting that correctly, I think it's a good idea and I would like to approve this.

Proposal Two: No problem with this one, with one little issue. I...kinda don't know who can carry how many items aside from the Medic. Little help?

Proposal Three: Pokebrid Accessories? Lovely idea. I am behind this. Let's have it available at Pokebrid level 3. Y'know, to offset the fact that I removed Paradigm Shift from there to put it at level 1.

Proposal Four: I think this is a pretty good idea, but I'd like to shift Rage around and give each SyncTech its own Rage cost, based on usefulness. I'll do this for all the NPC Pokebrids and, if Dante doesn't want to mess with it, I could do it for his character as well.

Proposal Five: This is also a good idea. Maybe at Pokebrid level 5? Then, Matthias could do something like use Toxic as a free action and the other has to be an attack.

Next up is Dracorian...damn, no new adult games at funny-base.

So maybe we can do something like, I dunno, reduce the Rage cost for Sweep and Focus in one of the Overblade upgrades?

What I would rather propose is that the Double Attack only produces the Rage of one attack and then do away with Focus and Sweep completely. I highly doubt a level 3 Overblade with Double Attack would even bother with Focus and Sweep anymore.

Just like in other RPGs, when a character gains a new skill which is pretty much an upgrade to a previous skill, they tend to ignore the previous skill, even given things like the skill costing less SP or whatever.

But we provide added effects to Focus and Sweep, like higher status affliction chances and whatnot, we could keep them attractive enough for an Overblade to consider using them despite how much better Double Attack is.

Pokemon Breeder (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated goes from 5 to 7.
- Can create a new custom hold item.
- Breeders can choose a second ability or a second slot for a hold item for one of their leader pokemon.

-----
Pokemon Breeder (Level 3)

- Can create a new custom hold item.
- Breeders can choose a second ability or a second slot for a hold item for their second leader pokemon.

-----
Pokemon Breeder (Level 5)

- Base Rage generated goes from 7 to 10.
- 2nd custom move availability.

I don't want to allow a Pokemon, even a Leader Pokemon, to hold two items at the same time. I am, however, totally behind a Pokemon having two Abilities in effect at the same time. Would that be okay?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
~ Dracorian proposed this about Pokebrids:

Pokebrid (Level 1)

- Can use any and all moves of the chosen Pokemon form.
- Can use Paradigm Shift (transform into that Pokemon). Costs 20 RP and lasts until the end of the turn it is used. Can only be used three times per battle. Type weaknesses no longer apply while Paradigm Shifted and Pokemon statistics are added to inherent statistics for a stat boost during those turns.

-----
Pokebrid (Level 5)

- Pokeform types have status and statistic defenses depending on the type they are. A Poison type Pokemon is immune to Poison and Bad Poison status effects, for example. The best way to know what does what is to look at the special defenses of Slayer armor.
- 1st custom hold item availability.

-----
Deva (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated is increased by 1.5 times.
- 2nd custom hold item availability.

-----
Deva (Level 4)

- Paradigm Shift can now be used five times.
- Devas become immune to the types of moves that their current form is.

If we want to do 20 Rage per turn in Paradigm Shift all paid out on the first turn of the Paradigm Shift, then we don't need "Paradigm Shift can now be used five times" for Deva level 4. We can come up with something else...like letting the Deva add a custom Ability to one of his Pokebrid forms. And we can do that again in...oh, Pokebrid level 5?

Pokemon Tuner (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated goes from 5 to 7.
- Tuners can choose a second ability or a second slot for a hold item for one of their leader pokemon.

-----
Pokemon Tuner (Level 3)

- Can create a new custom hold item.
- Snagballs can now inflict Instant Death now.
- Tuners can choose a second ability or a second slot for a hold item for their second leader pokemon.

-----
Pokemon Tuner (Level 5)

- Base Rage generated goes from 7 to 10.
- Snagballs can now inflict Apathy and Exhaustion.
- Tuners can choose a second ability or a second slot for a hold item for one of their pokemon.

Same for Tuners. I don't want to allow Pokemon to hold two items at once, but would allow for multiple Abilities on the same Leader Pokemon.

Anyways, I hope I've addressed everything. If I missed something, please repost it. I want to take care of addressing it tonight.

[Geminex]

Dead internet connection. Very annoying. Not my fault.

That Comic Was Amusing! Because I Say So! And I Am The Leader!
Though really, Impact isn't that stuck-up. He's more casual. And evil. And intelligent.
I mean honestly, that wasn't Impact, that was an idiot whose world revolves around being lead-OOOOOH I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE

Also, guess what day it is today?

Actually I'd like to thank Gem for not revealing my motivations which he asked for in PM way back when. Good show sir.

Oh, yeah. Those. I hadn't really thought about them, to be honest. So yeah, no big deal. Besides, giving them away, that'd be discourteous. I leave people to spill their secrets themselves. (HEY EVERYBODY THAT MEANS YOU CAN TRUST ME WITH ALL YOUR SECRETS OH WAIT YOU ALREADY HAVE)
By the way, we never did get to make that deal, did we? Not that it really matters. Though I probably could have given you a pretty good one. In fact...
>: ]
H3Y, D4NT3.
4BOUT THOS3 MOT1V4T1ONS...


As for those techniques, Drac.
Ok. What. Seriously. Trainer attack did a minor amount of damage. Like, 10% of a pokemon's damage. Less, maybe. Even if that's not very useful now, and we decided to double it, to 20% (to compensate for the fact that enemies get stronger, thought that argument is extremely, extremely shaky, since I don't see us buffing any other techniques to compensate for enemies' growing strength, that's what level-ups are for) we wouldn't get anywhere near what you have now.
I mean seriously dude, what the fuck.
If AB approves that stuff, fine. His say.
But in that case, I'd request that Pokebrids and Slayers get something similar. Cause what you have right now isn't a low-damage attack. It's 5 free signature techniques. And that's a lot. Hell, one weaker one would be acceptable, for anything more than that, there needs to be compensation.

As for all those other suggestions I didn't actually see...

First set:
1) Though I think Menarker's proposal involved that the Pokebrid would have to pay 20 rage at the start of every turn it's shifted, and for the duration of a battle, it can only stay shifted for three turns at max? Or did I misinterpret that?
2) Trainers and Snaggers carry three. Slayers and Brids carry six. And I'd leave it at that.
3) Cool. Though I think he meant less usable accessories, and more hold items. Also, I'm not sure if it's totally necessary, but very well.
4) Ok, what the fuck. This is a good idea. A great idea. In fact, I PROPOSED THIS IDEA FIVE THREADS AGO AND YOU REJECTED IT AND SAID IT MADE NO SENSE. SERIOUSLY, WHAT.
Also, I combined this with signature techniques, and proposed that brids get new sync-techs instead of sig-techs.
5) I hadn't considered that. I think it'd work, though...
See, I don't think pokebrids are all that underpowered. They might not be our best damage dealers, but they have a huge variety of techniques. And if they paradigm shift, they're suddenly damage dealers as well! I mean come on, how much damage has Matt done this turn using hyper beam.

I'm mainly iffy about this entire thing because
a) I don't really think they need all that much power once their paradigm shifts have been fixed (though I guess most of the above seems allright)
and
b) Menarker is making these proposals. Now, there's two possible motivations for this:
1) Menarker has suddenly become selfless and decided that the game's more fun when everybody has the same degree of power
2) Menarker wants to go pokebrid later and is getting a head start on overpowering that class
I'm reaaaally not sure which it is. I mean, sure, man, maybe you've decided to stop being a competitive douche, but until you've made a post saying "I agree to all the Regulations.", I am not going to trust you.

Dracorion's stuff, has that been accepted?

Also, my suggestion for self-customization, did you actually accept that as well?

[Astral Harmony]

I did read about self-customization. So you tell me. What do you want to change about the levels you take?

[Geminex]

Well, primarily I want to clear up the whole mishy-mashy chaos of "who acts as which class how do we combine the classes I am so confused I do not know what is going on BLUH BLUH" thing. From now on, there is just a collection of abilities. Up until now, those abilities have been clearly defined and have belonged to a certain class. I think it'd make everyone's life a lot easier if we just said "classes don't matter, pick your own abilities, but keep it balanced". I'll take care of that last bit.

What I want specifically, I was thinking that Impact could get Tactical Actions, with which he can use Tactical abilities. These would be a selection of minor, not-all-that-powerful abilities, but he could use quite a few per turn. Each'd influence the battle differently. Sorta like trainer actions, only, y'know, I'm not getting them for free.
Every ability I've mentioned so far would probably start appearing as tactical actions (though, while the standard cost would be just one action per ability, depending on the strength, there might be some more than that).
Impact would basically become this kickass manipulator, who can make tons of shit happen in battle without even needing to attack.

What's your take on trainer actions, by the way?

[Astral Harmony]

Can't do the first bit. Nothing against Dante, but it'd be very difficult to have him do anything like creating his own abilities or choosing his own ranks when he's barely here.

And Dante's not the primary issue. Let's face it. We can't keep it balanced. If we could get it balanced in the first place, then we probably wouldn't even need discussion theatre threads anymore except for dicking around and posting naughty pictures.

Tactical Actions sounds like a sequel thing. In fact, it is a sequel thing. You're not getting it until the sequel. The blue-haired bimbo has spoken. Besides, you said you weren't getting them for free, but you didn't indicate the price you were going to pay for them. And some examples couldn't hurt, either. 'Cause I didn't see shit.

My take on Trainer Actions is pretty cut and dry. Total of five, generally as effective as the Trainer Attack is. Once Menarker and Dracorian have ironed out whatever Pierce gets to do, then I'm plopping those in my document and leaving it at that.

[Geminex]

See it as a way to encourage dante to participate more.

You think self-customization makes a difference here? It's gonna be imbalanced no matter what we do, and this way at least the system will be logical.

Tactical Actions sounds like a sequel thing. In fact, it is a sequel thing. You're not getting it until the sequel. The blue-haired bimbo has spoken. Besides, you said you weren't getting them for free, but you didn't indicate the price you were going to pay for them. And some examples couldn't hurt, either. 'Cause I didn't see shit.

Ok, first, sequel thing? That makes no fucking sense. I don't envision Impact as fighting much in the sequel. And honestly, what reasons are there for that?

What price am I going to pay for them?
I was thinking they were, y'know, gonna be my fucking demon upgrades.

As for examples...
Let's go for a strong one.
"Massive Manipulation (name's gonna get revised"
Takes 3 Actions and 25 rage
Impact dominates one opponent

Weaker one:
Redirect!
1 Action
Retroactively redirect 1 enemy attack from last round, to hit a different target (the whole "retroactive" thing cause I can't use this in real-time).

Sorry, but going "Nope you can't have that cause I say so" while giving Trainers and Snaggers 5 extra signature techniques is complete and utter bullshit.

[Dracorion]

Also, guess what day it is today?

Wait a minute.

You were born?

I could've sworn some mad scientist grew you in a barn. Oh well, congrats.

(HEY EVERYBODY THAT MEANS YOU CAN TRUST ME WITH ALL YOUR SECRETS OH WAIT YOU ALREADY HAVE)

Oh it's so cute how you think that.

As for those techniques, Drac.
Ok. What. Seriously. Trainer attack did a minor amount of damage. Like, 10% of a pokemon's damage. Less, maybe. Even if that's not very useful now, and we decided to double it, to 20% (to compensate for the fact that enemies get stronger, thought that argument is extremely, extremely shaky, since I don't see us buffing any other techniques to compensate for enemies' growing strength, that's what level-ups are for) we wouldn't get anywhere near what you have now.
I mean seriously dude, what the fuck.
If AB approves that stuff, fine. His say.
But in that case, I'd request that Pokebrids and Slayers get something similar. Cause what you have right now isn't a low-damage attack. It's 5 free signature techniques. And that's a lot. Hell, one weaker one would be acceptable, for anything more than that, there needs to be compensation.

Oh they're hardly Signature Techniques. Seriously, one 50 Rage Signature Technique is like three times as useful as my proposed Trainer Actions put together. And we don't even have very many 50 Rage Signature Techniques!

Hell, the reason I didn't take these straight to AB was so we could discuss them and reach an agreement! If you're just going to reject them straight off the bat, there's not much point to proposing stuff so we can discuss them, is there?

Out of curiosity, did you read Menarker's and my discussion on them or just my original suggestions because of time constraints?

As for all those other suggestions I didn't actually see...

First set:
1) Though I think Menarker's proposal involved that the Pokebrid would have to pay 20 rage at the start of every turn it's shifted, and for the duration of a battle, it can only stay shifted for three turns at max? Or did I misinterpret that?

Yep, this is what I thought Menarker's proposal would do too.

If the Pokebrid has to pay 20 Rage each for three turns of Paradigm Shift up front, that's exactly like it is now!

4) Ok, what the fuck. This is a good idea. A great idea. In fact, I PROPOSED THIS IDEA FIVE THREADS AGO AND YOU REJECTED IT AND SAID IT MADE NO SENSE. SERIOUSLY, WHAT.
Also, I combined this with signature techniques, and proposed that brids get new sync-techs instead of sig-techs.

No you didn't. I mean, I don't exactly remember what you proposed, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't what Menarker proposed.

Though I dunno if your proposal was like what AB decided to do in the end.

5) I hadn't considered that. I think it'd work, though...
See, I don't think pokebrids are all that underpowered. They might not be our best damage dealers, but they have a huge variety of techniques. And if they paradigm shift, they're suddenly damage dealers as well! I mean come on, how much damage has Matt done this turn using hyper beam.

Problem being that Paradigm Shifting is extremely costly.

Also, name me one Sync-Tech Matt has used this mission and I'll show you hateful lies, because I'm fairly certain he hasn't gotten anywhere near 100 Rage.

I'm mainly iffy about this entire thing because
a) I don't really think they need all that much power once their paradigm shifts have been fixed (though I guess most of the above seems allright)
and
b) Menarker is making these proposals. Now, there's two possible motivations for this:
1) Menarker has suddenly become selfless and decided that the game's more fun when everybody has the same degree of power
2) Menarker wants to go pokebrid later and is getting a head start on overpowering that class
I'm reaaaally not sure which it is. I mean, sure, man, maybe you've decided to stop being a competitive douche, but until you've made a post saying "I agree to all the Regulations.", I am not going to trust you.

You can't actually reject his stuff on the basis of not trusting him. Or, well, you can, but you shouldn't reject his stuff on the basis of not trusting him, unless you have evidence he can't be trusted.

Just run your critical eye over the proposals and approve them if you think they're good and Menarker can't abuse them in any way. You can make note that you reserve the right to change your mind, just in case it turns out later that they are broken and OMG MENARKER TRICKED YOU BWA HA HA.

My opinion? I think Menarker is serving his own interests. However, that doesn't mean he's not right. I mean hell, when you proposed buffs for Slayer, and when I proposed buffs for Trainer we were both serving our own interests, but that didn't instantly make us wrong.

Dracorion's stuff, has that been accepted?

Nope. I haven't put it in orange for AB because I knew you were going to whine about it.

You think self-customization makes a difference here? It's gonna be imbalanced no matter what we do, and this way at least the system will be logical.

... Okay, okay. I think you're talking less about customizing our own classes here and more about changing the combat system in regards to different classes.

Which is exactly what you tried to do when you proposed your support system. In which case, -2 points for disguising your proposal as a different one. Bad Geminex, BAD! Don't do that anymore!

Keep in mind that your support system idea wasn't actually rejected. I went and proposed a perfectly reasonable compromise, remember?

Ok, first, sequel thing? That makes no fucking sense. I don't envision Impact as fighting much in the sequel. And honestly, what reasons are there for that?

What, now you're trying to get him to spoil sequel stuff for you?

A) I'm fairly certain he's already told you more about the sequel than he should, and B) it's his right as the GM not to tell you sequel stuff if he doesn't want you.

Weaker one:
Redirect!
1 Action
Retroactively redirect 1 enemy attack from last round, to hit a different target (the whole "retroactive" thing cause I can't use this in real-time).

OH MAN WOW.

I PROPOSED A TRAINER ACTION THAT'S EXACTLY LIKE THIS.

EXCEPT IT'S NOT RETROACTIVE, SO YOU CAN'T USE IT TO TAKE AWAY AN ATTACK YOU REALLY REALLY DON'T LIKE.

AND Y'KNOW WHAT? IT DOESN'T COST RAGE EITHER LIKE THIS ONE. BETTER YET, IT EVEN ONLY REDIRECTS ONE ATTACK SPECIFICALLY AT ONE OF PIERCE'S POKEMON, NOT JUST ANY ALLY.

OH WOW.

Dick.

Sorry, but going "Nope you can't have that cause I say so" while giving Trainers and Snaggers 5 extra signature techniques is complete and utter bullshit.

Technically, he's the GM. It's his right, nay, his duty, to reject anything and everything.

[Geminex]

No you didn't. I mean, I don't exactly remember what you proposed, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't what Menarker proposed.
Go look for it, ya lazy dick. It was back when I was still posting plans. In fact, one second.
PCHOOOO
...
AH, HERE WE GO.

And finally, I’ve been thinking. Pokebrids and their Sync-techs. They’re like hard-to-use sig-techs, aren’t they? Only they don’t count as sig-techs, Matt has three of them, but he can still pick a technique.
I’m thinking we should change that. AB, would it be feasible that pokebrids don’t get Sync-techs naturally, as a level-up bonus (we can think of something else to get them instead for that level-up, maybe hold items or custom moves), but instead get them as sig-techs? And maybe the cost could be variable, and they could be used without being paradigm-shifted (though we could make it that they’re a lot stronger if they’re used while shifted)?
Cause it seems like that’d make much more sense. Pokebrids are really rage-heavy right now.

Menarker proposed (in 4):
That Pokebrids don't need to be paradigm-shifted to use their techniques
That their techniques be stronger when they do use them while shifted

I proposed
That Pokebrids don't need to be paradigm-shifted to use techniques
That their techniques be stronger when they do use them while shifted
(AND)
That techniques be stronger, and have variable rage costs (like signature techniques)
That they, in fact, replace signature techniques, meaning pokebrids can choose one at level... 4, 8 and 13 (?)
Note that this would make the whole "redesign paradigm shift" thing unnecessary.

...
WOW WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT. SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT MENARKER PROPOSED. ONLY MORE COMPREHENSIVE. AND MORE AWESOME. DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE SURE THAT WASN'T THE CASE BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO CALL ME OUT ON THAT?

OH MAN WOW.

I PROPOSED A TRAINER ACTION THAT'S EXACTLY LIKE THIS.

I posted this a few threads ago, when I was choosing demon powers:

b) influence the enemy's morale, tactics and targetting

WOW WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. I'M TALKING ABOUT INFLUENCING THE ENEMY'S TARGETING (which, AB, by the way, interpreted correctly as "decide which enemy attacks hit whom") SEVERAL HUNDRED POSTS BEFORE YOU. HUH. WEIRD, ISN'T IT?
Seriously. That's the second time that I propose something for Impact and then you ask for it for one of your characters. Cease thine Plagiarism, foul non-demon.

... Okay, okay. I think you're talking less about customizing our own classes here and more about changing the combat system in regards to different classes.
What. What're you talking about.
The system I mean is the "Customize your own character growth" system. As opposed to the "Be limited to 4 non-customizable classes and one hugely customizable class" system. The former is better, and more logical. I prefer it.
Which do you prefer?


What, now you're trying to get him to spoil sequel stuff for you?

A) I'm fairly certain he's already told you more about the sequel than he should, and B) it's his right as the GM not to tell you sequel stuff if he doesn't want you.

Ok, now I'm sure you're just trolling. Impact will be the villain. I will have plot power. How on earth has he told me "more about the sequel than he should"? Mind you, in your defense, you can't know how much he told me.
Or even know what he told me.
H3H3H3H3H3
And yeah. Of course. He doesn't have to tell me anything. But I haven't been pestering him for information about the sequel. I have asked him a single question about it and my character's role in it. Am I somehow abusing my right to speak to AB? Does our great and august GM suffer so through my endless (EEEENDLEEEEEE---------ES) questions that he needs you to tell me to shut up? Have I ever implied that it's not his right not to tell me stuff? No?
Then how about I tuck you in bed with a big, warm glass of Shut The Fuck Up.

Seriously, don't do that. I don't like you when you're a presumptuous dick. Oh, wait, turns out I've never really liked you. Do you think there might be a correlation?

Technically, he's the GM. It's his right, nay, his duty, to reject anything and everything.
Except for, y'know, everything that someone who is not me proposes. Glad to see that we're FAIR AND BALANCED in this RP thread.

You can't actually reject his stuff on the basis of not trusting him.
I'm not! I'm saying I'm hesitant to accept because I think he may have snuck something past me, and I wanna take time to make sure he hasn't. I'm not rejecting it on grounds of mistrust. Hell, if we allowed mutual mistrust to stop us from accepting each other's deals, we wouldn't actually get anywhere.

And no, I haven't seen the revised versions of your utterly, utterly overpowered techniques. I you repost them I will be sure to give them an unbiased look. Yes.

[Menarker]

Well, happy birthday Gem.

Proposal One: So, each turn in a Paradigm Shift costs 20 Rage and the Pokebrid/Deva pays for all turns up front? Well, if I'm interpreting that correctly, I think it's a good idea and I would like to approve this.

That was not so much my intent. Basically, a turn in Paradigm shift would only last for the duration of that turn. A pokebrid user could pay another 20 rage next turn if he wants to maintain it or he can drop it. The maximum number of times this is used is equal to the number of turns a pokebrid could have maintained a paradigm shift before (3 at the start and 5 at upgrade) It is really more like an optional upkeep. Kinda like one of those "pay by the seconds" phones.

Cool. Though I think he meant less usable accessories, and more hold items. Also, I'm not sure if it's totally necessary, but very well.

Nope, I meant more powerful custom items for pokebrids (a somewhat higher level upgrade). He wants more effectiveness with support? He can work with that. He wants MORE POWER? He got that covered. Kinda cater more to his playing style. >_>

I'm mainly iffy about this entire thing because
a) I don't really think they need all that much power once their paradigm shifts have been fixed (though I guess most of the above seems allright)
and
b) Menarker is making these proposals. Now, there's two possible motivations for this:
1) Menarker has suddenly become selfless and decided that the game's more fun when everybody has the same degree of power
2) Menarker wants to go pokebrid later and is getting a head start on overpowering that class
I'm reaaaally not sure which it is. I mean, sure, man, maybe you've decided to stop being a competitive douche, but until you've made a post saying "I agree to all the Regulations.", I am not going to trust you.

I said I only want one level of Pokebrid. You all saw me post my upgrade plan list upfront. That means everything other than the alteration on Paradigm Shift doesn't concern me. I wouldn't get any Sync Techs or the custom items, and I would already get enhanced item carrying with Slayers (who always had that ability) in the first place, so all I did was proposed the same thing to Pokebrids (IE: Matt) and he gets a bunch of stuff I would never expect to get myself.

WOW WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. I'M TALKING ABOUT INFLUENCING THE ENEMY'S TARGETING (which, AB, by the way, interpreted correctly as "decide which enemy attacks hit whom") SEVERAL HUNDRED POSTS BEFORE YOU. HUH. WEIRD, ISN'T IT?
Seriously. That's the second time that I propose something for Impact and then you ask for it for one of your characters. Cease thine Plagiarism, foul non-demon.

>_> I "threatened" to slap Drac for copying my custom move I've planned for Umbreon even longer than you did which involved targetting. Don't make me consider a 2 for 1 special! =P

On a similar note, I did say that Drac's techniques even when edited might be too strong to get all at once. That Drac might have to forgo a few of them just on the basis that having 2 or 3 of them might be ok, but all five would border on too diverse.

I didn't get the chance to edit my Cheerful Backup and make the 5 rage gain part into a second move, since that'll make it more natural to explain and such.

I proposed
That Pokebrids don't need to be paradigm-shifted to use techniques
That their techniques be stronger when they do use them while shifted
(AND)
That techniques be stronger, and have variable rage costs (like signature techniques)
That they, in fact, replace signature techniques, meaning pokebrids can choose one at level... 4, 8 and 13 (?)
Note that this would make the whole "redesign paradigm shift" thing unnecessary.

Refer to the bolded part to see which part I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure AB intended that a new sync-tech becomes unlocked when they get a new form and Devas might end up with more than the max of 3 forms and at different levels than when everyone else gets them. I honestly wouldn't vouch for that. Let them get more Devas levels if they want more forms and thus more techs.

See, I don't think pokebrids are all that underpowered. They might not be our best damage dealers, but they have a huge variety of techniques. And if they paradigm shift, they're suddenly damage dealers as well! I mean come on, how much damage has Matt done this turn using hyper beam.

They are not the best damage dealers and they got the worst survivability. No numbers like trainer classes and lack of armor and immunities like slayers (they even got weaknesses). The only thing they got is diversity in move sets which only pumps their offense to be more equal to a slayer in attack if they can managed to hit for STAB and Weakness, and their offense doesn't improve over time like a slayer or trainer does, only their diversity increases. Since the other classes grow stronger over time AND have a good deal of diversity already (6+ pokemons or switchable elemental weapons), the pokebrid's claim to fame of diversity doesn't actually mean very much at the moment. It basically takes a lot of rage for them to become "competively balanced" with the other classes.

[DanteFalcon]

I'm actually here more often than not. I'm just a lazy bastard who needs to post more in game. I don't post here often because I usually don't have much to contribute to the discussion. I leave all the crazyness (see: Balancing) to the people who want to put the time and effort behind it.

I'll take a look into putzing with my Sync Techs. I'll keep you guys apprised.

[Dracorion]

Go look for it, ya lazy dick. It was back when I was still posting plans. In fact, one second.
PCHOOOO
...
AH, HERE WE GO.


...
WOW WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT. SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT MENARKER PROPOSED. ONLY MORE COMPREHENSIVE. AND MORE AWESOME. DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE SURE THAT WASN'T THE CASE BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO CALL ME OUT ON THAT?

A) That was the least offensive thing I said in my post, B) it wasn't meant to be offensive, don't get testy. C) I was short on time, so I couldn't've looked it up. D) I couldn't've waited, because by then (now), Menarker and you would've posted and made my question moot or overshadowed it with bigger problems.

WOW WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. I'M TALKING ABOUT INFLUENCING THE ENEMY'S TARGETING (which, AB, by the way, interpreted correctly as "decide which enemy attacks hit whom") SEVERAL HUNDRED POSTS BEFORE YOU. HUH. WEIRD, ISN'T IT?
Seriously. That's the second time that I propose something for Impact and then you ask for it for one of your characters. Cease thine Plagiarism, foul non-demon.

>_> I "threatened" to slap Drac for copying my custom move I've planned for Umbreon even longer than you did which involved targetting. Don't make me consider a 2 for 1 special! =P

OH FOR GOD'S SAKES, YOU MORONS.

COMING UP WITH A TECHNIQUE INVOLVING A MECHANIC THAT IS PERFECTLY VIABLE FOR ANYONE DOES NOT GIVE YOU EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO IT.

ESPECIALLY WHEN SAID MECHANIC, YOUR "INFLUENCING ENEMY TARGETTING" IS FUCKING FROM THE GODDAMN GAMES (Follow Me).

This applies to all of them. If I were to come up with a technique for Pierce that involves a stat boost, I don't want Geminex getting all up in my grill because I plagiarized his Dark Ambition. If I come up with a technique for Sophia that involves protecting an ally or using an extra item, I don't want Menarker dropping the copyright hammer on my balls.

Similarly, I won't be crying if you guys come up with techniques that allow you more actions per turn, or inflict Null Turn on the enemies or some such.

That is, of course, only when the general idea is being copied. If I gave Pierce a technique that used Protect on any allies willing to pay a certain amount of Rage, or gave Sophia a technique that made the Enforcers attack from the rearguard, then you can bitch.

Get it? Good. Now, if I hear you two whining again because that dude came up with a technique that inflicted more damage when allies are at full health which is kinda sorta like my technique that deals more damage when all the allies are dead

*stops to take a breath*

I will make you pay.

Yes, I just made a threat. Don't believe me? Call me on it and watch me make your lives a living hell when I plagiarize all your moves for a start, and claim copyright on all damage-dealing techniques because MY TECHNIQUES INVOLVED DEALING DAMAGE FIRST STFU. Or you can just shut up and admit I'm right.

Geminex, my outburst over your example Tactical Action? Wasn't about plagiarism. It was that I thought you'd rejected my Trainer Actions as overpowered when I had one that was just like yours.

Still, I apologize for the way I worded it.

PS: I assume the first time I took something you proposed for myself was Half-Demonness?

What. What're you talking about.
The system I mean is the "Customize your own character growth" system. As opposed to the "Be limited to 4 non-customizable classes and one hugely customizable class" system. The former is better, and more logical. I prefer it.
Which do you prefer?

Well, sorry. You made a comment earlier about "no one knowing how to combine the classes" or whatever and it just spoke to me of your proposed support system.

Still, it's not that we don't know how to combine the classes. It's that someone had some things they wanted to clarify, and there's nothing wrong with that. It does not instantly mean we're stupid morons and the system is too confusing. And, well, there was also Menarker being Menarker.

So hey AB, could you clarify how PC dual-classes would work once and for all that so there's no confusion, or no belief that there's confusion?

I believe you've already said that Trainer and Snagger won't mesh well, but let's say that someone was to take a character all the way up to level 10 in both classes. They'd be severely gimped because they'd get a bunch of upgrades they've already got, but eventually they would be able to have six pokemon and snag two more, and have ability shifts and custom moves and Xth-level pokemon, and fancy Snagball status effects?

As for PC Battle Masters, I believe they can only have two combatants out at any one time, which could very well be two pokemon, or one pokemon and the Battle Master themself, correct? And they'd carry six items.

Same for PC Legion Mages.

Anyway, don't worry about making us feel stupid. God knows we are if we have to keep asking this.

As to your question, Geminex. I pick secret option number C: "keep the classes, but be able to customize them based on how many level of each you want to take."

Ok, now I'm sure you're just trolling.

When am I not?

Impact will be the villain. I will have plot power.

That's irrelevant. The heroes (us) can have plot power too, as shown by Charlotte when she derailed the plot by putting Moon in the hospital.

Presumably, we can influence it even more. AB's pretty lenient like that.

So I have as much right as you to walk up to AB and ask him what my character's role is going to involve for the sequel. Or something like that.

How on earth has he told me "more about the sequel than he should"? Mind you, in your defense, you can't know how much he told me.
Or even know what he told me.
H3H3H3H3H3

Ah, but how would you know how much I know?

And yeah. Of course. He doesn't have to tell me anything. But I haven't been pestering him for information about the sequel. I have asked him a single question about it and my character's role in it. Am I somehow abusing my right to speak to AB? Does our great and august GM suffer so through my endless (EEEENDLEEEEEE---------ES) questions that he needs you to tell me to shut up? Have I ever implied that it's not his right not to tell me stuff? No?
Then how about I tuck you in bed with a big, warm glass of Shut The Fuck Up.

Hm, point.

Seriously, don't do that. I don't like you when you're a presumptuous dick. Oh, wait, turns out I've never really liked you. Do you think there might be a correlation?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

And if you don't like me, why did you friend me?

Except for, y'know, everything that someone who is not me proposes. Glad to see that we're FAIR AND BALANCED in this RP thread.

To be fair, you propose things a lot more often than the rest of us, so of course your proposal-to-rejections ratio is going to be a lot higher than ours.

All of us have had some suggestions rejected? We don't go sulk in the corner, or start playing victim. We compromise.

I'm not saying you don't compromise either, but when you do it it's more like "Dracorion how dare you defy me! If you will not recognize the stupidity of your stance, I will deign myself to lower my standards to appease you. This time."

Just because our stances don't fall in line with yours doesn't instantly make us wrong! And you do give off that "I'm always right" vibe all the time.

I'm not! I'm saying I'm hesitant to accept because I think he may have snuck something past me, and I wanna take time to make sure he hasn't. I'm not rejecting it on grounds of mistrust. Hell, if we allowed mutual mistrust to stop us from accepting each other's deals, we wouldn't actually get anywhere.

Fair enough, my mistake. Sorry. I was a little too aggresive in that post.

And no, I haven't seen the revised versions of your utterly, utterly overpowered techniques. I you repost them I will be sure to give them an unbiased look. Yes.

Let's see if I can't round them up...

Combined Attack: Pick one of Pierce's pokemon from the field. That pokemon's attack move gains the same type as Pierce's other pokemon's primary type, but the power stays the same.

Okay, this one's crappily worded. Basically, say Tyranitar and Blaziken are out. Tyranitar uses Earthquake and Pierce uses Combined Attack. Tyranitar's Earthquake is now Ground/Fire, and the move's power stays the same.


Menarker noticed there would be some confusion about what would happen if the target of Tyranitar's attack were, say, a Flying-type, so he suggested this to clarify and I approved:

1) The main attacker attack gets divided into two like Double Hit (dividing power in half respectively for each hit).
2) The first hit being the type of the move the attacking pokemon (Tyranitar in this case) uses. The second hit being the primary type of the second pokemon (Blaziken in this case). Thus, the first hit would be ground and the second one would be fire with your example.
3) The total base power is equal to the move that it is based on.
4) All bonuses such as STAB that apply to the first hit also apply to the second even if it wouldn't normally. Both hits use the attack or special attack stat of the main attacker. (Technically, Tyranitar is a rock/dark type so no STAB with your previous example.)

Trainer Attack: Pierce attacks alongside one of his pokemon. That pokemon's attack has 2x chance of inflicting the status associated to Pierce's weapon.

Basically, since Pierce's weapons are the Dragon Slave and the Phantom Staff, one pokemon's attack would either have a 100% chance to decrease the target's Special Defense by -1, or a 50% chance of instant death.


Menarker said it would be overpowered, and he thought that Pierce's attack power would buff the move's power which is not the case. So I clarified:

I mean, something like:

Blaziken uses Fire Blast!
Pierce uses Trainer Attack! Pierce attacks Blaziken's target, except he doesn't actually do damage. In fact, for all intents and purposes, it counts as part of Blaziken's Fire Blast, and adds a chance to cause Instant Death or reduce Special Defense by one stage (depending on which weapon Pierce is using, and based on the chances those weapons normally have of inflicting statuses). No extra damage or anything.

Get it now?

Basically, if Pierce used his Dragon Slave Blaziken's move would have a 50% chance of decreasing the target's Special Defense by 1, or if he used the Phantom Staff it'd have a 25% chance to inflict instant death. Trainer Attack would not cause any more damage.

Menarker said:

So basically you're applying the Slayer effect of the weapon element you use onto a pokekmon move that your affected pokemon uses... But technically, the effect seems like it would be the same if Pierce was just attacking directly, since you aren't applying power to the move and all you're doing is adding the slayer stat affliction of the weapon Pierce is holding.
Is that about right?

Five-Star Deluxe Special: Chizuru cooks up a meal for both of Pierce's pokemon on the field. A small regenerative effect is applied to them.


Menarker thought it would be too weak like that, so I suggested making it either A) regenerate 3/32 of one or both pokemon's maximum HP (1/16 + 50%), or B) heal 10% of one or both pokemon's max HP.

Yes, that would be more regeneration that Leftovers provide, but let's face is, Leftovers are completely worthless right now.

Menarker said: Well... Gem might yell at me, and I apologize if I go overboard... but for Five Star Deluxe I would have it target a single pokemon but regenerate a 20% of max health every turn. Significant enough to be of SOME use during combat, but it won't save you for being ganged up, or at least for long. "Expect no less from Chizuru's cooking"

Which I don't necessarily agree with.

Mock: Pierce taunts one enemy. One enemy's attack is redirected at one of Pierce's pokemon. Multi-target attacks would be centered on Pierce's pokemon. The pokemon targetted does not gain Rage when this Trainer Action is used.


Menarker brought up that I could have a pokemon use Protect and then use this Trainer Action to redirect an enemy's attack at that pokemon, making it effectively a Null Turn move.

So I suggested that the pokemon targetted doesn't take an action, but it does gain Rage.

Willpower: Both of Pierce's pokemon gain 50% resistance to being afflicted with statuses until the end of the turn.

Menarker thought this one was fine as is.




On a similar note, I did say that Drac's techniques even when edited might be too strong to get all at once. That Drac might have to forgo a few of them just on the basis that having 2 or 3 of them might be ok, but all five would border on too diverse.

In that case, you should propose to AB that we grant Trainer Actions with upgrades. Something like, 3 Trainer Actions are Trainer level 3 and 5 at level 5.

Of course, since we're all almost at level 5, that's pretty much irrelevant, isn't it?

Unless you want to lump them into Breeder territory, which we might end up customizing for ourselves anyway, so not much point putting them in there.

You might say that Pierce getting five Trainer Actions at once would be two diverse. Even if he were only going to get like three now, he would have to get the other two at the start of his sidequest, which is like two seconds away.

Y'see? Not much point to making us wait for more Trainer Actions.

[Astral Harmony]

I have to get to work soon, but it shouldn't be that long before I'm done with the day.

Gem, go ahead and show me these ideas you have with your Tactical Actions. I'll...do what I can.

And don't think you'll just be sitting on your ass in the sequel. That won't garner any respect from your subordinates and then you'd soon have a mutiny on your ass. You know the game Overlord? That motherfucker had all those Minions and did he just sit on his throne and await his gold and mistresses? Hell, no. That motherfucker picked up his two-handed axe and went out there and earned that shit.

Anyways, I'll go over that orange shit Dracorian posted at the top of this page as soon as I get off of work.

[Dracorion]

To be fair, what's the point of having Minions if you're going to get up and do everything yourself?

Still, there's nothing wrong with personally quelling a rebellion or two. Can't lose your edge, after all. Why, what would happen if a battalion of freedom fighters crashed into your throne room where you've been sitting on your ass for the last twenty years?

Slaughter is what happens.

[Astral Harmony]

Well, in Overlord, it's more like strategy between yourself and your Minions. For whatever reason, it had to be your Minions who did stuff like pick up artifacts, turn capstans, put out fires, and destroy toxic flora. And more often than not, unless you work hard and enchant your weapons and armor (which requires, guess what, your Minions), then chances are that the Overlord could be overwhelmed when engaged against a dozen enemies at once.

I just think that Geminex isn't aware that holding control of the Pokemon World will not be an easy feat at all, and it's definitely not a job one can do while sitting on a throne, having some busty wench feeding him grapes with some overdressed messenger telling him what's up and awaiting his commands.

I haven't gone into all the details or listed everything, but Honmyr is very unstable. From superpowerful Pokemon to mercenaries on almost every street corner and places above and below ground that you just can't go to because they're filled with things that are Pokemon and things that...well...aren't, Honmyr is chock full of things that go bump any time of day. I mean, most regions have just a police force. Honmyr has a police force, PATCA, and the Prideguard reinforced with mechanical juggernauts, warships, and some of the most powerful people in the world. Honmyr needs those things. If Impact sits on his ass after he conquers the world, he's not going to sit on it for long because somebody's going to kick it.

[Dracorion]

Geminex is like one of those child prodigies that could be Einstein but they never actually get there.

And of course, none of them know that they're not going to be Einstein until they're fifty-years-old still working as an accountant.

Okay, that's enough Geminex bashing. I have a feeling he's going to have more things to worry about than us PCs.

[Menarker]

OH FOR GOD'S SAKES, YOU MORONS.

COMING UP WITH A TECHNIQUE INVOLVING A MECHANIC THAT IS PERFECTLY VIABLE FOR ANYONE DOES NOT GIVE YOU EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO IT.

ESPECIALLY WHEN SAID MECHANIC, YOUR "INFLUENCING ENEMY TARGETTING" IS FUCKING FROM THE GODDAMN GAMES (Follow Me).

This applies to all of them. If I were to come up with a technique for Pierce that involves a stat boost, I don't want Geminex getting all up in my grill because I plagiarized his Dark Ambition. If I come up with a technique for Sophia that involves protecting an ally or using an extra item, I don't want Menarker dropping the copyright hammer on my balls.

Similarly, I won't be crying if you guys come up with techniques that allow you more actions per turn, or inflict Null Turn on the enemies or some such.

That is, of course, only when the general idea is being copied. If I gave Pierce a technique that used Protect on any allies willing to pay a certain amount of Rage, or gave Sophia a technique that made the Enforcers attack from the rearguard, then you can bitch.

Get it? Good. Now, if I hear you two whining again because that dude came up with a technique that inflicted more damage when allies are at full health which is kinda sorta like my technique that deals more damage when all the allies are dead

*stops to take a breath*

I will make you pay.

Yes, I just made a threat. Don't believe me? Call me on it and watch me make your lives a living hell when I plagiarize all your moves for a start, and claim copyright on all damage-dealing techniques because MY TECHNIQUES INVOLVED DEALING DAMAGE FIRST STFU. Or you can just shut up and admit I'm right.


If I can just clarify myself a bit Drac, I was joking around when I "threatened" to slap you for copying my technique. I said all that and continued to proceeded to help you modify your technique in the same breath and thus approved it once you modified it. So I really had no problem with you or anyone else using similar mechanics whatsoever.

Then Gem seemed to went possessive for similar reasons (although whether he was joking or not I'll leave between the two of you to decide). And I basically joked back saying that my idea which was based on the same mechanic was older than HIS move, so he has no right complaining, since based on that logic, I was the first one to consider the idea and thus the alleged "copyright". :3

[Geminex]

Dracorion:

COMING UP WITH A TECHNIQUE INVOLVING A MECHANIC THAT IS PERFECTLY VIABLE FOR ANYONE DOES NOT GIVE YOU EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO IT.

Hey, I wouldn't have mentioned it if you hadn't gone "I just posted something like that!".
And ok, so maybe it wasn't about plagiarism. But the argument as you meant it to be didn't make sense. This is (or, rather, will be, I hope) part of my upgrades. Means I don't get it for free. Which is the entire problem I have with your stuff. It's not excessively strong as it is. There's nothing wrong with it in those regards. But you're asking to get it without having to level-up, without having to sacrifice any particular skill for it. And because that's the case, those techniques are way to strong. Since there's no need for balancing either. There's no need to get a free upgrade. You just want one. And AB's giving it to you.
And no, the credit for the half-demoness thing is entirely yours. I don't even remember that.


And there's a difference between "influencing the plot through your in-character actions" and "Deciding OOC what will happen to NPCs and the party"
You will be doing the former. I will be doing the latter. I think.
And yes, you have the right to ask him that. But I have more of a right than you, because, y'know, the plot will involve my character doing certain things, whether I want him to or not.
But let us end this particular element of the discussion for it is stupid.

Ah, but how would you know how much I know?
That is also stupid.

And if you don't like me, why did you friend me?
Look, I was drunk and it was a mistake, ok? It happened one time, and it doesn't mean anything!

Ok, so maybe I give off the "I'm always right" vibe. But come on, I propose something 5 threads ago, and it gets rejected as "doesn't make any sense why would that even happen". Menarker proposes it now, justifies it a lot less well, and suddenly AB's like "I hadn't thought of that!". YES. YOU HAD. YOU READ A GREAT BIG LONG PARAGRAPH ABOUT IT BEFORE TELLING ME I WAS STUPID FOR SUGGESTING IT.

And now the same thing with the Trainer actions vs. Tactical actions! He's perfectly open to you guys asking for a free upgrade, but when I propose a way to make my upgrades logical (because he already approved all the abilities, all I'm trying to do is regulate how Impact uses them. Because giving him a dozen rage-using techniques would be stupid, and so would just letting him use each technique once per turn for free) he instantly goes "no, next RP". And even if I propose more stuff than you guys do, proposals should be weighed on their own merits, not rejected because one of my things already got accepted last thread. It's not like I'm asking for favors, after all, I'm try to improve the RP.

And come on. When have I ever sulked or played victim when one of my things got rejected? I always compromise, always try to make some sort of deal we both benefit from! And I'm not that condescending when I do so (only when I see your objection as utterly unjustified and/or only there to troll me(. And I'm not sulking either. I'm just pointing out that there seem to be some inconsistencies regarding what gets accepted and what doesn't. Worst-case, AB calls me a Whaaambulance, best-case he becomes more open to the stuff I suggest.

Though AB, please ignore the above bit. I'm making a point to Drac, I don't actually mean to complain anymore. See below for my response to your stuff.

And like I said, the moves all seem interesting, but there's honestly no reason for you to get them for free...
If you put them into breeder, replace some other upgrade with them, great! I'd be behind that, because it's creative and pretty awesome. Or even if you really want them now, you could replace, I dunno, your leader pokemon with them? Or maybe go back to having just 4 pokemon in your team? I don't mind how you do it. But I'm heavily against you getting an upgrade of this magnitude for free without a shred of justification (because that paragraph at the end of your post doesn't actually make a point), unless, like I said, pokebrids and slayers get something similar, also for free.



Nope, I meant more powerful custom items for pokebrids (a somewhat higher level upgrade). He wants more effectiveness with support? He can work with that. He wants MORE POWER? He got that covered. Kinda cater more to his playing style. >_>
Ok, that's cool. As long as it's "At a higher level".

And I don't put it past you to power up pokebrid and then decide you'd prefer that class, citing my extensive objections to your choosing Slayer as a reason for your sudden switch, but very well. Benefit of the doubt and all that.
Like I said, if we power up sync-techs a little, make it so you don't need to be paradigm-shifted to use them, I think pokebrids should be fine. You're right that they're not as strong defensively, but they're weaker in their "normal" form cause they're really strong when they're shifted.


Refer to the bolded part to see which part I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure AB intended that a new sync-tech becomes unlocked when they get a new form and Devas might end up with more than the max of 3 forms and at different levels than when everyone else gets them. I honestly wouldn't vouch for that. Let them get more Devas levels if they want more forms and thus more techs.

And if AB intended that, fine. He can do that. I'm just saying that it really doesn't make much sense for pokebrids to get their signature techniques with each new form, rather than with levels like all the other classes (except, admittedly, demon). I'm also saying that it would be more sense if sync-techs were treated like signature techniques, with all the applicable limitations and benefits. And if AB really wants them to have a lot of forms and a technique for each, we could give pokebrids the choice of foregoing their relationship techs in favor of more sync-techs. I think Matt might certainly benefit from that.

Ok, first, I've actually played Overlord once, at a friend's house, and I stopped in disgust after half an hour. That's just... not how you do it.
Mind you, I'd be happy to have Impact actually do something in this RP!
But the whole "Ooh, look at me, I am evil, I wear evil clothing, I do evil, if surprisingly petty things, I have an evil chair, muahahaha!" thing is stupid. Impact's goal won't be "Be evil". He'll have a series of goals, and he'll act in accordance with those goals. He will do what makes those goals more likely. He's evil in that he's ruthless in support of those goals, and in that those goals aren't always very nice, but I won't make him more evil or overlord-esque for the sole purpose of actually making him seem more like a villain.
...
Just sayin'.

And like I mentioned above, Tactions will just be a way to manage all the stuff Impact will be doing. I asked for a variety of abilities, and you seemed to be ok with those. But how to manage them? Making them all rage-fuelled would be sorta stupid, cause he already has barely enough rage to use all his techniques with, let alone to use all the other stuff he's gonna get.
So, I thought it'd be good to introduce tactical actions with which he pays for the abilities he uses. He'd get, like, two tactical actions per turn to begin with, and three abilities to use them with, and as he levels up, he'd get more actions per turn, and a greater wealth of abilities. I'd still get a bit of stuff for combat, but by level 10, Impact's main role would be "strategic supporter", and by level 15 that would be even more the case. And I mean, he doesn't have to be the only one to use that system. You said you were thinking of coming up with a scout class (or, well, I complained that there wasn't one and you said ok), that could employ something similar.

[Dracorion]

And ok, so maybe it wasn't about plagiarism. But the argument as you meant it to be didn't make sense. This is (or, rather, will be, I hope) part of my upgrades. Means I don't get it for free. Which is the entire problem I have with your stuff. It's not excessively strong as it is. There's nothing wrong with it in those regards. But you're asking to get it without having to level-up, without having to sacrifice any particular skill for it. And because that's the case, those techniques are way to strong. Since there's no need for balancing either. There's no need to get a free upgrade. You just want one. And AB's giving it to you.

Technically, we're not getting them for free.

We're retroactively replacing the old Trainer Attack upgrade for them. We've already spent a level on them, see?

I like Trainer Actions, man. I want 'em. So I came up with my five and, instead of going over your heads and taking them to AB, I asked you, so we could come up with something reasonable together.

Hell, I'm not even against you getting your Tactical Actions either.

I'm just, y'know, asking for your help balancing my Trainer Actions. Or, if you think it can't be done, we take it to AB.

So hey AB, Geminex and Menarker have a problem with Trainer Actions, and I do kinda see their point. Maybe we could, I dunno, knock he number down to three or come up with something else entirely to replace Trainer Attack?

And no, the credit for the half-demoness thing is entirely yours. I don't even remember that.

Well then, what were you referring to?

Look, I was drunk and it was a mistake, ok? It happened one time, and it doesn't mean anything!

BUT I THOUGHT YOU LOVED ME.

Ok, so maybe I give off the "I'm always right" vibe. But come on, I propose something 5 threads ago, and it gets rejected as "doesn't make any sense why would that even happen". Menarker proposes it now, justifies it a lot less well, and suddenly AB's like "I hadn't thought of that!". YES. YOU HAD. YOU READ A GREAT BIG LONG PARAGRAPH ABOUT IT BEFORE TELLING ME I WAS STUPID FOR SUGGESTING IT.

Yeah, I don't really know what's up with that. I think it's because your main point was giving Pokebrids Sig-techs instead of Synch-techs and we didn't like that.

I think it's cool that pokebrids get a Synchronization Technique for every new form.

And now the same thing with the Trainer actions vs. Tactical actions! He's perfectly open to you guys asking for a free upgrade, but when I propose a way to make my upgrades logical (because he already approved all the abilities, all I'm trying to do is regulate how Impact uses them. Because giving him a dozen rage-using techniques would be stupid, and so would just letting him use each technique once per turn for free) he instantly goes "no, next RP". And even if I propose more stuff than you guys do, proposals should be weighed on their own merits, not rejected because one of my things already got accepted last thread. It's not like I'm asking for favors, after all, I'm try to improve the RP.

Oh, AB probably misunderstood you. I mean, Tactical Actions does sound like a sequel thing, because even though you'll be coming out to play every now and then, most of the time Impact'll be sitting in his throne watching his minions fight the heroes.

Also, I'm not saying your proposals are getting rejected because you make too many of them.

I'm saying, all of us make suggestions. Some of those suggestions get rejected for perfectly valid reasons. You make the most suggestions, therefore your suggestions that get rejected for perfectly valid reasons will be more than ours.

I mean seriously dude, just because you proposed it doesn't make it an instant winner.

And come on. When have I ever sulked or played victim when one of my things got rejected?

Right now, whining about your Tactical Actions.

And like I said, the moves all seem interesting, but there's honestly no reason for you to get them for free...
If you put them into breeder, replace some other upgrade with them, great! I'd be behind that, because it's creative and pretty awesome. Or even if you really want them now, you could replace, I dunno, your leader pokemon with them? Or maybe go back to having just 4 pokemon in your team? I don't mind how you do it. But I'm heavily against you getting an upgrade of this magnitude for free without a shred of justification (because that paragraph at the end of your post doesn't actually make a point), unless, like I said, pokebrids and slayers get something similar, also for free.

I really don't wanna put them into Breeder. Why? Because there's other stuff that's more important to me to get and I'm probably only going to get one level of Breeder, unless you were to let me customize my own Slayer levels or something.

And hell, even I don't think I should get to customize my Slayer levels.

And seriously? Giving up a leader or going back to four pokemon? Jesus dude, they're not that strong.

I mean, the upgrade we spent (wasted) on Trainer Attack isn't even worth at least three not-so-powerful-but-still-better-than-trainer-attack Trainer Actions?

And I don't put it past you to power up pokebrid and then decide you'd prefer that class, citing my extensive objections to your choosing Slayer as a reason for your sudden switch, but very well. Benefit of the doubt and all that.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t150/Utepeis/its_a_trap.jpg

And if AB intended that, fine. He can do that. I'm just saying that it really doesn't make much sense for pokebrids to get their signature techniques with each new form, rather than with levels like all the other classes (except, admittedly, demon). I'm also saying that it would be more sense if sync-techs were treated like signature techniques, with all the applicable limitations and benefits. And if AB really wants them to have a lot of forms and a technique for each, we could give pokebrids the choice of foregoing their relationship techs in favor of more sync-techs. I think Matt might certainly benefit from that.

As everyone likes to mention, Pokebrid's strong suit is their diversity. Why shouldn't that also apply to their Techniques, too?

And like I mentioned above, Tactions will just be a way to manage all the stuff Impact will be doing. I asked for a variety of abilities, and you seemed to be ok with those. But how to manage them? Making them all rage-fuelled would be sorta stupid, cause he already has barely enough rage to use all his techniques with, let alone to use all the other stuff he's gonna get.
So, I thought it'd be good to introduce tactical actions with which he pays for the abilities he uses. He'd get, like, two tactical actions per turn to begin with, and three abilities to use them with, and as he levels up, he'd get more actions per turn, and a greater wealth of abilities. I'd still get a bit of stuff for combat, but by level 10, Impact's main role would be "strategic supporter", and by level 15 that would be even more the case. And I mean, he doesn't have to be the only one to use that system. You said you were thinking of coming up with a scout class (or, well, I complained that there wasn't one and you said ok), that could employ something similar.

... You do realize that with Trainer Actions we'd only be able to use one at a time, right?

And AB, whatever [I]did [/BI]happen to that Scout specialty that Gem proposed?

[Astral Harmony]

Let me go ahead and address all the orange text before I enjoy these illegally downloaded hentai games.

And City of Heroes some more.

So hey AB, could you clarify how PC dual-classes would work once and for all that so there's no confusion, or no belief that there's confusion?

I believe you've already said that Trainer and Snagger won't mesh well, but let's say that someone was to take a character all the way up to level 10 in both classes. They'd be severely gimped because they'd get a bunch of upgrades they've already got, but eventually they would be able to have six pokemon and snag two more, and have ability shifts and custom moves and Xth-level pokemon, and fancy Snagball status effects?

As for PC Battle Masters, I believe they can only have two combatants out at any one time, which could very well be two pokemon, or one pokemon and the Battle Master themself, correct? And they'd carry six items.

Same for PC Legion Mages.

Anyway, don't worry about making us feel stupid. God knows we are if we have to keep asking this.

The NPC Snagger recruited during Mission 4 will actually be this class. I'm not certain how badly a Trainer/Snagger dual class will actually be in relation to other dual classes. I guess we'll both find out when we see her performance in battle.

You've pretty much nailed everything right down correctly. I wish I had that talent.

And AB, whatever did happen to that Scout specialty that Gem proposed?

Never got off the ground. I had completely forgotten all about it, and I think everyone else did, but you just had to go and bring it back up. Gawd, you always do this! I banish you to go work at a Banana Republic!

So hey AB, Geminex and Menarker have a problem with Trainer Actions, and I do kinda see their point. Maybe we could, I dunno, knock he number down to three or come up with something else entirely to replace Trainer Attack?

Let's do this. Every even level of the Trainer/Breeder class (Trainer 2, Trainer 4, Breeder 1, Breeder 3, Breeder 5), we allow another Trainer Action. Then...oh, set the Trainer Attack for maybe just Trainer level 1.

------------------

And I'm sorry about the Tactical Actions nonsense, all right? It's just...I'm kind of feeling that if we keep throwing all this stuff in, then there isn't anything to look forward to in the sequel. I wanna do lotsa shit with it (attributes, terrain and move, Harem Techs, a Knomere Pokebrid form, etc.) and it's only Mission 3. All I'm saying is that the sequel is going to be huge in its own right, and believe me, skills and abilities that you don't learn until then will most certainly not be useless.

[Geminex]

We're retroactively replacing the old Trainer Attack upgrade for them. We've already spent a level on them, see?
I understand that much. But your old trainer actions were a weak attack. And they were appropriate for that level, all the classes got about equal upgrades during that level. The stuff you're proposing now now is far more useful than that! You're getting buffed, retroactively. Your level 2 is now much stronger than anyone else's level 2. And you don't need that buff, goddammit. The other classes need it way more!

Which is why I'm not even balancing it. I'm saying "not for free". When you concede that point, then we can get to balancing.

And AB's solution is better, since you're getting the stuff more gradually, but trainers are still getting a buff.
So AB, what are Slayers and Brids gonna get in return? Cause they have to get something. I... insist.

I'm saying, all of us make suggestions. Some of those suggestions get rejected for perfectly valid reasons. You make the most suggestions, therefore your suggestions that get rejected for perfectly valid reasons will be more than ours.
Oh, sure. But you were talking about "a higher ratio". And if we're talking ratios, then the amount of proposals should be irrelevant.

As everyone likes to mention, Pokebrid's strong suit is their diversity. Why shouldn't that also apply to their Techniques, too?
Because, like I said, they'd be the only class for whom signature techniques work differently. And honestly, how would we do it if Matt takes some levels in another class? Would he start getting techniques normally?

... You do realize that with Trainer Actions we'd only be able to use one at a time, right?
Why're you comparing tactions with trainer actions? They have nothing to do with each other.

And AB, this isn't a big thing I'm asking for! Certainly not so big that it should have to wait until the sequel. You already said yes to tall the stuff I asked for for Impact's demon upgrade, right? Power up allies, depower enemies, scout the enemy, do crippling damage when it's necessary, you were fine with that, right?
The question is, how to implement it? Are you just gonna give Impact a bunch of rage-using techniques? If that's the case, you'd have to massively buff his rage generation to pretty much destroyer levels, because using techniques is gonna be his main role. He'll be a caster, he needs to be able to cast a lot.
But I think rage should be separate. Let it remain fuel for sig-techs and other combat abilities. And that's why I recommended tactical actions. They're seperate from rage, but they still serve to ration Impact's ability use. It's a rationing mechanism, not a whole new combat system! It's not that big a thing.

[Menarker]

And AB's solution is better, since you're getting the stuff more gradually, but trainers are still getting a buff.
So AB, what are Slayers and Brids gonna get in return? Cause they have to get something. I... insist.



I should probably mention Gem that if you ask for that, then my character will get double the amount of stuff since I'm branching out into pokebrid (for only 1 level which may not count) and Slayer for 8 (which is sure to give me a few of those). With 6 level of breeders and 8 levels of Slayers, Renny would have... lots of options as opposed to if it only applied to Breeder levels.

Just giving this heads up, so you don't think I'm being silent and taking advantage. Not that I'd mind at all! Just saying.

Although, AB suggestion is good so it's not all gained at once. At this point, Charlotte, Pierce and Renny would only have 2 such moves.

[Dracorion]

The NPC Snagger recruited during Mission 4 will actually be this class. I'm not certain how badly a Trainer/Snagger dual class will actually be in relation to other dual classes. I guess we'll both find out when we see her performance in battle.

Eh, it can't be worse than a pure Snagger.

Also, I imagine it wouldn't be that great. You said NPCs don't get all the cool stuff us PCs do like custom items, custom moves and Xth-level pokemon. So I don't think making her a Trainer/Snagger would be much different than making her just a Snagger.

Let's do this. Every even level of the Trainer/Breeder class (Trainer 2, Trainer 4, Breeder 1, Breeder 3, Breeder 5), we allow another Trainer Action. Then...oh, set the Trainer Attack for maybe just Trainer level 1.

I could live with that.

And I'm sorry about the Tactical Actions nonsense, all right? It's just...I'm kind of feeling that if we keep throwing all this stuff in, then there isn't anything to look forward to in the sequel. I wanna do lotsa shit with it (attributes, terrain and move, Harem Techs, a Knomere Pokebrid form, etc.) and it's only Mission 3. All I'm saying is that the sequel is going to be huge in its own right, and believe me, skills and abilities that you don't learn until then will most certainly not be useless.

Harem Techs

I don't say this often enough: I love you AB and you're getting a spot on my harem tech.

I understand that much. But your old trainer actions were a weak attack. And they were appropriate for that level, all the classes got about equal upgrades during that level. The stuff you're proposing now now is far more useful than that! You're getting buffed, retroactively. Your level 2 is now much stronger than anyone else's level 2. And you don't need that buff, goddammit. The other classes need it way more!

Which is why I'm not even balancing it. I'm saying "not for free". When you concede that point, then we can get to balancing.

Okay, I see your point.

Magic Code Word, activate! "not for free".

And AB's solution is better, since you're getting the stuff more gradually, but trainers are still getting a buff.
So AB, what are Slayers and Brids gonna get in return? Cause they have to get something. I... insist.

Slayer Actions and Pokemoves!

Pretty much just an equivalent of Trainer Actions for Slayers and Pokebrids. Then you can put some of your proposed upgrades for Demon into those, and have more stuff to get for your Demon upgrade.

Oh, sure. But you were talking about "a higher ratio". And if we're talking ratios, then the amount of proposals should be irrelevant.

Yep, my bad. Totally not what I meant.

Because, like I said, they'd be the only class for whom signature techniques work differently. And honestly, how would we do it if Matt takes some levels in another class? Would he start getting techniques normally?

Look at Melanie. She gets Synchronization Techniques and Signature Techniques for being a Slayer/Pokebrid.

Basically, think of Synchronization Techniques as a class feature, like Slayers getting weapons, armor and accessories, and trainers getting, y'know, pokemon and everything that comes with them. Don't think of them as Signature Techniques.

Yes, of course Pokebrid's class feature is more powerful than anyone else's. You know what they do to pay for that? They end up a very Rage-reliant class, and name me one time we've used a Rage Rocket on Matthias this mission. He's still probably not going to get any Rage Rockets if we make Synchronization Techniques vary their cost, and drop Paradigm Shifts to 20 RPs for one turn. They'll just, y'know, be able to actually use their techniques.

Why're you comparing tactions with trainer actions? They have nothing to do with each other.

Maybe I got the wrong impression because you proposed them as a result of us getting trainer actions.

[Astral Harmony]

So AB, what are Slayers and Brids gonna get in return? Cause they have to get something. I... insist.

I'll insist the back of my hand upside your head.

Joking aside, let's do that, Gem. What do you suggest Slayers and Pokebrids gain in return? You tell me they should gain something, but you don't have a suggestion. So all I can do is make one up myself.

First, let's do these Slayer Actions. They're free, they don't even cost Rage, and you can use only one per turn. Slayers can do a weak Normal type attack at level 1.

As for the rest, since you're a Slayer level 4, you can create two more of comparable strength to the Slayer level 1 Slayer Action.

Pokebrids get Pokebrid Actions, obviously. The idea I have is to let them do a status effect or debuff based on the primary type of their current Pokebrid form at the start of the turn. Like if the Pokebrid is a Poison type (or Poison is listed as the first type of a dual-type), then the Pokebrid Action is a free Poison affliction on a target of his or her choosing at various percentages depending on the effect.

Various percentages depending on the effect? What does that mean? Well, it's simple common sense. A Poison Pokeform Action should inflict Poison 100% of the time, right? That's fair, I think. But the Ghost Pokebrid Action should NOT inflict Instant Death 100% of the time. Otherwise, we really have no need for Snipers since a Ghost type Pokebrid could instantly kill one enemy unit per turn, no cost or nothing.

To make it clear, let's take Matthias's forms...

1.) Matthias's first Pokeform is Venomoth. It's first type is listed as Bug. So the Pokebrid Action could reduce Evasion by one level 100%.
2.) Next up is Castform. As we all know, Castform changes types based on the current weather, so Castform has access to no less than four types. The Normal type deals small Normal type damage. The Fire type would inflict Burn at 50%. Water type would inflict Sleep at 50%. Ice type would inflict Freeze at 50%. Because status effects are a more effective tactic, they tend to have less of a chance at inflicting the desired effects.
3.) Finally, we've got Porygon Z. Porygon Z is Normal type, so it does Normal type damage for its Pokebrid Action.

I feel that Pokebrid Actions should become available as the Pokebrid/Deva gains new forms.

If there's an issue, please address it so we can work it together. I love it when a good RP group cooperates to make everything better.

And AB, this isn't a big thing I'm asking for! Certainly not so big that it should have to wait until the sequel. You already said yes to tall the stuff I asked for for Impact's demon upgrade, right? Power up allies, depower enemies, scout the enemy, do crippling damage when it's necessary, you were fine with that, right?
The question is, how to implement it? Are you just gonna give Impact a bunch of rage-using techniques? If that's the case, you'd have to massively buff his rage generation to pretty much destroyer levels, because using techniques is gonna be his main role. He'll be a caster, he needs to be able to cast a lot.
But I think rage should be separate. Let it remain fuel for sig-techs and other combat abilities. And that's why I recommended tactical actions. They're seperate from rage, but they still serve to ration Impact's ability use. It's a rationing mechanism, not a whole new combat system! It's not that big a thing.

I think I said it twice in this thread that I wanted to work it over with you. So, give me your suggestions before I Dinner your ass.

-------------------------

You said NPCs don't get all the cool stuff us PCs do like custom items, custom moves and Xth-level pokemon. So I don't think making her a Trainer/Snagger would be much different than making her just a Snagger.

I'm actually going to start applying those upgrades to NPCs now. I just need time for...inspiration. Like the inspiration I got when I saw this evolved version of a Sharpedo on Gelbooru that I decided to name Sharpredator.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral101.png

Wouldn't Moon be a total badass is his Sharpedo evolved into that thing?

Anyways, the classes will also get stuff like Trainer Actions as well to bring them up to par.

-------------------------

Harem Techs are going to be strange. I'm thinking that since there's so many NPCs (particularly attractive female ones), I'd group them together and set them up to work in tandem with PCs in something called Harem Techs. I'm going to want more time with it, of course.

[Dracorion]

Slayer Actions and Pokebrid Actions.

OMGWTF I JUST SAID THAT PLAGIARISM ILL SUE

If there's an issue, please address it so we can work it together. I love it when a good RP group cooperates to make everything better.

Phhbbb-HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHEHEHEHEHE HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I think I said it twice in this thread that I wanted to work it over with you. So, give me your suggestions before I Dinner your ass.

You should Dinner his ass anyway. I mean, you already had to ask him twice! Dude just refuses to believe that you want to help him, because it's easier to think he's the one getting shafted.

Oh man, I love Geminex bashing. Seriously, it's like an addiction. A highly disturbing one.

Okay, I'm not going to troll Geminex quite like that to his face anymore. Fo' realz. I'm still going to troll him, just not with comments like that.

I'm actually going to start applying those upgrades to NPCs now. I just need time for...inspiration. Like the inspiration I got when I saw this evolved version of a Sharpedo on Gelbooru that I decided to name Sharpredator.

Cool! I kinda wanna make Elizabeth a Trainer/Snagger now, so she can take advantage of all the custom stuff.

Though I don't want to steal AB's Trainer/Snagger NPC for Mission 4's thing.

Hmmm... AB, can I make Elizabeth a Trainer/Snagger after Mission 4? Basically just give her as many levels in Trainer as she has Snagger? That way I get what I want, without ruining the surprise of your NPC.

Wouldn't Moon be a total badass is his Sharpedo evolved into that thing?

Meh, it's nice. I mean, cool and all, but not all that great. Not as great as Unownaut anyway.

Anyways, the classes will also get stuff like Trainer Actions as well to bring them up to par.

Think this through, AB.

You're giving Elizabeth Trainer Actions.

Consider all the ramifications and tell me if you think that's a good idea.

Harem Techs are going to be strange. I'm thinking that since there's so many NPCs (particularly attractive female ones), I'd group them together and set them up to work in tandem with PCs in something called Harem Techs. I'm going to want more time with it, of course.

Mine is going to be Pierce getting together with the Kimonos to call in God AKA Armored Bishoujo to smite some baddies.

And then they all blow God.

Because you're just that cool, AB.

[Menarker]

Err... how many girls minimal or maximum in a Harem Tech?

Because while Lola is definately MINE no questions asked, some of the others I would consider is Whitney, Kurika, Rachel, and maybe a few others. (There are more being introduced every mission!)

AB: I would like to ask (DEMAND) that everyone has a select girl that cannot be taken into someone else's harem tech (or any kind of harem). I don't want anyone taking Lola into their harem just like I'd imagine Drac wouldn't want anyone taking Chizuru. And so on and so forth.


I didn't know Moon had a Sharpedo. The only person I know with anything like that is Rachel with that form.

[Dracorion]

Well he doesn't have one on his team right now.

But let's face it, dude probably has one somewhere.

[Menarker]

Given his specialty with Water types, it would be quite feasible that he could have one somewhere or he will get one soon.

Also, AB what level would that proposed Pokebrid Action be attained? Is that something meant to be attained at level one or at a slightly higher level like level 3 or so? Don't want anyone accusing me of power-gaming for a new ability I didn't suggest in the first place.

[Dracorion]

I imagine you would get a new one when you get a new Pokebrid form.

So you would get one for your first level of Pokebrid, that deals a status effect or a stat decrease.

[Astral Harmony]

Hmmm... AB, can I make Elizabeth a Trainer/Snagger after Mission 4? Basically just give her as many levels in Trainer as she has Snagger? That way I get what I want, without ruining the surprise of your NPC.

Sure, you can do that. So long as she hasn't joined the team yet, and occasionally even after she has, you could change her class, but if you're gonna do it after, you'll need a darn good reason.

Meh, it's nice. I mean, cool and all, but not all that great. Not as great as Unownaut anyway.

It could be worse. It could be this...

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral100.jpg

So watch it. You know how much I love comedy in my RPs.

You're giving Elizabeth Trainer Actions.

Consider all the ramifications and tell me if you think that's a good idea.

Isn't Elizabeth the one who-...oh, heh heh heh. Yes. Yes, in-fucking-deedy, I do want her to have Trainer Actions.

AB: I would like to ask (DEMAND) that everyone has a select girl that cannot be taken into someone else's harem tech (or any kind of harem). I don't want anyone taking Lola into their harem just like I'd imagine Drac wouldn't want anyone taking Chizuru. And so on and so forth.

That goes without saying...ergh...typing, Menarker.

I didn't know Moon had a Sharpedo. The only person I know with anything like that is Rachel with that form.

Huh...now that I looked at it, he doesn't. I wonder why he doesn't? Sharpedo is, like, one of my favorite Pokemon.

Oh, he already has a Water/Dark type in Crawdaunt.

Well, I guess I should think up an evolution for Starmie. ...Starwii?

[Menarker]

Or you could you know, have Moon trade away his Crawdaunt for Sharpredator (Or presumably trade it away for a Sharpedo whom he manages to evolve during the space between mission) after the mission, presumably editing it into the update sheet which will probably be changed and updated after we finish discussion on how advanced classes would be changed. We only really use Crawdaunt for Blizzard really, and he doesn't even do it well.

[Dracorion]

Sure, you can do that. So long as she hasn't joined the team yet, and occasionally even after she has, you could change her class, but if you're gonna do it after, you'll need a darn good reason.

That's... inconvenient. I mean, Trainers and Snaggers are practically the same class! You sure she can't just up and decide to dual-class?

Or maybe I could make her a Trainer/Snagger from the get-go, but not take advantage of any of the Trainer upgrades until after Mission 4. I just don't want to ruin your surprise, y'know?

Isn't Elizabeth the one who-...oh, heh heh heh. Yes. Yes, in-fucking-deedy, I do want her to have Trainer Actions.

You're a sick, sick man.

This is going to be so fun.

Huh...now that I looked at it, he doesn't. I wonder why he doesn't? Sharpedo is, like, one of my favorite Pokemon.

Oh, he already has a Water/Dark type in Crawdaunt.

Well, I guess I should think up an evolution for Starmie. ...Starwii?

Or, you could come up with Xth-level Eeveelutions for all the members of the Thirteen Eevee Threat.

I mean, those are their favorite pokemon, makes sense those would be the ones to evolve.

Or you could evolve Lanturn. That one has a nifty dual type, it could stand to have an evolution that's actually, y'know, useful.

[Menarker]

AB: I assume that in the event that someone has multiple of these Actions from different classes, they can still only select one of these for the turn, not do one of each. Right? (Like in my case when presumably Renny would have by level 15... 3 Trainer Action, 1 Pokebrid Action and 4 Slayer actions (assuming Renny gets one every 2 levels like trainers do.)


Got another wild conjecture here!

I'm starting to get the feeling that Whitney might end up being one of the new 13 Eevee Trainers in the future (Rachel wasn't one before and now she is the Steel type after Rayleen became the dragon type instead). She already has an all-bug team that she stole from the Dark. Yes, she's missing the Eevee evolution, but who knows if she might get one? Of course, if she does get one where would it come from and what happened to the original Bug type eevee member? >_> It's entirely possible that not all the Eevee trainers we'll find decide to turn good like the ones who are with us are. Maybe Whitney can snag the Bug Eevee off that one.

As for which pokemon in her team to replace... well, Shedninja would suck in an RP where there are more than one foes, and only one foe would need to have a single super effective move or something like Leech Seed or Sandstorm or Hail to knock it out in one hit. That one would be the best choice to evict.

[Dracorion]

Actually, all the members of the Thirteen Eevee Threat are accounted for. I believe AB said a long while back the last three would join during the beach mission.

The three Eevee trainers missing are Andora the Fighting type Eevee trainer, Alphonsine the Flying type Eevee Trainer, and Terrance the Poison type Eevee Trainer.

And, of course, there's Darcen, who is currently suffering from a rather severe case of deadness. So the only Eevee trainer really missing is Normal type.

[Menarker]

Oh, right. ^^; Thirteen Eevee threat.

I am kinda in a stupor. ^^; I was mentally thinking that there would eventually be an eevee evolution for every type and a trainer for it for total of 17 elements if you don't count Ruin type.

Of course, it's entirely possible that someone or some NPCs who was never part of the 13 Eevee group but actually follows the same setup might exist. It's not like everyone automatically gravitate toward each other instinctively in order to form the club. They might even be antagonists for future missions. Who knows?

Of course, that's entirely up to AB. :3

Although, technically, they aren't the 13 Eevee anymore now that Darcen is dead. At least with Lucifier dying, the pokemons got passed to Rayleen who passed hers to Rachel. All of Darcen's pokemon died along with him. Thus making them 12.

In order to be regain the title of 13 Eevee Threat, someone would have to join with the entire team of the same pokemon type and the eevee evolution. The only one who could fits this without making up an entirely new NPC is Whitney if she got the eevee evolution for bug type.
Alternatively, a new NPC with normal, ground, ghost or rock type would work too.

[Dracorion]

If there was a Bug-type Eeveelution, they'd have to become the Fourteen Eevee Force to accomodate. They'd still need a Normal-type trainer, see?

[Bard The 5th LW]

IF Rayleen was a member of the Thirteen Evee Threat before they became the Evil Evee Eight, how come she didn't seem to show much recognition of them early on? (this has probably been explained and I just missed it)

She doesn't at all seem to be angry at Charlotte for shooting a former Colleague, nor upset about the death of the Normal Trainer whose name escapes me at the moment.

[Dracorion]

1) AB hadn't decided at the time.

2) They didn't exactly part on the best of terms.

3) Charlotte probably did get a severe talking-to on shooting people from Rayleen, after the mission.

4) Rayleen was pretty much keeping her entire past a secret at the time, only deciding to move on during Renny's sidequest. And even then, who told us that Rayleen was part of the Thirteen Eevee Threat? Shannon.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Thanks, that was just sort of bothering me in the back of my head.

A third party source will likely reveal Charlotte's origins in a similar way.

[Astral Harmony]

I'm good with the idea of Xth level Eeveelutions. I'm thinking instead of the -eon thing they've got going on, their names change to -kai. Joltkai, Vaporkai, Flarkai, all that nonsense.

If I thought I could get away with it, I'd have you guys learn Actions for only your primary class, despite whether you put 10 ranks into it or not. You'd just learn them as you put ranks in a different class.

The fact is that I didn't really have Rayleen set for anything personal until that Pulverot put her in the hospital. Then wham, bam, whoosh, suddenly she's got Registeel and five other Steel types, a mother in a coma (well, used to be in a coma), a dead fiancee and father, unrequited feelings for her butler Dormond, and all that. She was going to be a by-the-books head bitch in charge, but then I go off on a tangent and start putting more into her.

It happens a lot. Lola didn't have a sister until I decided that Harliette was her sister right as the Phantomere battle kicked off. This RP is full of split-second on-the-spot decisions.

Like Moon's unwanted harem.

And Irene's S&M-loving bodyguard.

And Pierce's one night stand with Shizuka.

Obviously, I need to think about a few of these more thoroughly./joking

[Dracorion]

Like that thing I joked about over PMs that you said wouldn't happen but then you decided it would?

[Menarker]

So... are we waiting for anything else other than AB's promised demon upgrades before we can continue discussions or is there something I/we forgot?

Also, AB is going to be busy with his next sprite comic (assuming he wasn't joking about him making one where Renny asks all the female NPC about the birds and the bees or something a bit like that.) I mean, there are a lot of female NPCs!

[Astral Harmony]

You're not going to talk to all the female NPCs. Just the ones where I can make a punchline. First and foremost, I need to think up some dialogue.

RP post will be done tomorrow. And if I can stop playing shit like Tales of Vesperia or Radiata Stories (god forbid I play a new game instead of an old one), I could have a great deal more done.

[Menarker]

I was going to post since the last few days, but feeling totally uninspired to the point of utter writer's block. I'll sum up Renny's feelings at a later point.

[Dracorion]

So I guess we should finalize the plan, huh?

Renny: Shaymin and Swampert use Air Slash on the Fog.
Rachel: Two Rage Rockets on Pierce and Impact.
Wilhelmina: STAB Dark Shot on Psytellite A.
Melanie: Uses "Un" (Dark Type Slayer attack) for STAB Super Effective damage on PsyMatthias. Base 50% chance of flinching which might be 100% flinch due to Super Effectiveness? Uses X-Attack on Irene.
Irene: Attacks PsyImpact and Psytellite D with Grimslay for STAB Super Effective Ghost damage and 50% base chance of Instant Death. (Doubled to 100% due to Super Effectiveness?) Sceptile uses X-Scissor on PsyPierce. Rhyperior uses Megahorn on PsyMatthias.
Harliette: Vespiquen and Wormadam use Attack Order and Bug Bite (both bug moves) on Psytellites B and C.
Moon: Vaporeon uses Helping Hand on Harliette. Lanturn uses Signal Beam, a bug move on PsyPierce.
Lexhur: Uses Grill Gore for strong dark type damage on PsyRenny.
Charlotte: Uses Arceus (Poison typed due to Toxic Plate) and his Poison typed Judgement on one of them Asura Beta A to knock it out with Super Effective Damage. Sol-Leks uses Dark Pulse on PsyImpact. Spends her Trainer Action to use Future Shock, centered on Psytellite E, Asura Beta E and Psytellite F.
Matthias: Porygon Z, Dark Pulse on PsyMatthias.
Pierce: Tyranitar uses Crunch (Dark) on a PsyPierce and Blaziken uses Overheat on Asura Beta D.
Impact: uses Swarm Bow for super-effective damage on PsyImpact. Pays 75 RPs to use C,C&C.
Shannon: Florescense uses X-Scissor on Psytellite B. Roserade uses Poison Jab on Asura Beta D.
Kurika: Uses Below the Belt for STAB Super-effective damage on PsyImpact.
Milsha: Uses Throat Harpoon for STAB Super-effective damage on PsyMatthias.
Cecilia: Splash Bomb on PsyPierce.
Aster: Lucario form, Divide Dark Pulse between Psytellite C and PsyPierce.
Harliette (2nd): does Desperado to do four powerful randomly aimed typeless attacks (Hopefully there are fewer targets since she attacks last, so there is less chance of a bad random attack).
Pierce's Trainer Attack: on PsyPierce.

[Menarker]

Why are we using Pierce's Trainer attack after all the discussions we made about it? And if we did want to use the original way for the duration of this battle, why is Charlotte's trainer attack not there?

Roserade's attack stat is very poor compared to her special attack. Using Sludge Bomb instead of Poison Jab.

Slightly edited below.

BTW, I just damn realized that all this time, we have been sending out Charlotte's Arcanine and Mightyena and always forgetting their Intimidate ability to put an Attack Debuff on two targets!



Renny: Shaymin and Swampert use Air Slash on the Fog.
Rachel: Two Rage Rockets on Pierce and Impact.
Wilhelmina: STAB Dark Shot on Psytellite A.
Melanie: Uses "Un" (Dark Type Slayer attack) for STAB Super Effective damage on PsyMatthias. Base 50% chance of flinching which might be 100% flinch due to Super Effectiveness? Uses X-Attack on Irene.
Irene: Attacks PsyImpact and Psytellite D with Grimslay for STAB Super Effective Ghost damage and 50% base chance of Instant Death. (Doubled to 100% due to Super Effectiveness?) Sceptile uses Super Effective X-Scissor on PsyPierce. Rhyperior uses Super Effective Megahorn on PsyMatthias.
Harliette: Vespiquen and Wormadam use Attack Order and Bug Bite (both bug moves) on Psytellites B and C.
Moon: Vaporeon uses Helping Hand on Harliette. Lanturn uses Signal Beam, a bug move on PsyPierce.
Lexhur: Uses Grill Gore for strong dark type damage on PsyRenny.
Charlotte: Uses Arceus (Poison typed due to Toxic Plate) and his Poison typed Judgement on one of them Asura Beta A to knock it out with Super Effective Damage. Sol-Leks uses Dark Pulse on PsyImpact for STAB Super Effective. Spends her Trainer Action to use Future Shock, centered on Psytellite E, Asura Beta E and Psytellite F.
Matthias: Porygon Z, Dark Pulse on PsyMatthias for Super Effective Damage.
Pierce: Tyranitar uses Crunch (Dark) on a PsyPierce and Blaziken uses Overheat on Asura Beta D. Both attacks are STAB and Super Effective.
Impact: uses Swarm Bow for super-effective damage on PsyImpact. Pays 75 RPs to use C,C&C.
Shannon: Florescense uses X-Scissor on Psytellite B for Super Effective Damage. Roserade uses Poison Jab on Asura Beta D for STAB Super Effective damage.
Kurika: Uses Below the Belt for STAB Super-effective damage on PsyImpact.
Milsha: Uses Throat Harpoon for STAB Super-effective damage on PsyMatthias.
Cecilia: Splash Bomb on PsyPierce.
Aster: Lucario form, Divide Dark Pulse between Psytellite C and PsyPierce for Super Effective damage.
Pierce's Trainer Attack: on PsyPierce.
Harliette (2nd): does Desperado to do four powerful randomly aimed typeless attacks (Hopefully there are fewer targets since she attacks last, so there is less chance of a bad random attack).

[Dracorion]

1) Yes, I'm assuming we're still using Trainer Attacks because Bard hasn't come up with any Trainer Actions for Charlotte and I haven't finalized mine.

2) Roserade doesn't have Sludge Bomb. It does, however, have Shadow Ball, so we could have it target one of the Psytellites I guess.

3) Charlotte is using her Trainer Attack action for Future Shock, so that's why I didn't include hers.

[Menarker]

^^: Ouch, I'm still groggy from waiting up. However, Shadow Ball would be more effective than Poison Point. Super Effectiveness has a larger damage modifier than STAB. (2x compared to 1.5x)

[Dracorion]

Maybe you're still groggy.

If Roserade uses Poison Jab on an Asura, it gets STAB and super effectiveness. If it uses Shadow Ball on a Psytellite, all it gets is super effective.

[Menarker]

Yes, but that modifier would be applied to her poor attack stat as opposed to one modifier on her very large special attack (Roserade is tied with one other grass pokemon for highest Special attack). It is higher than Flying Shaymin by 5 points (although with lower speed).

Calcuating it, Shadow Ball would be more effective.

[Dracorion]

If Roserade uses Shadow Ball on the Asura, it doesn't get super-effective OR STAB.

[Menarker]

^^; Oh, geez, all this time, I thought we were using its attack on one of the Psychic type foes.

If you want it to attack an Asura, then sure, use Poison Jab. If you want it to attack a psychic type, use Shadow Ball.

I'm going back to bed!

[Dracorion]

You sure you didn't wake up drunk or something?

[Menarker]

I don't drink alcohol. But I'm a lousy morning person... Just plain life makes me practically drunk.

[Dracorion]

I mean, I said a bunch of times that Roserade was attacking an Asura. It was right there.

Anyway, how would Arcanine's and Mightyena's Intimidate work?

[Menarker]

Well, I assume that it would be like a Slayer's sweep. We choose two foes right beside each other and they both lose a stage's worth of attack.

[Geminex]

Yes, of course Pokebrid's class feature is more powerful than anyone else's. You know what they do to pay for that? They end up a very Rage-reliant class, and name me one time we've used a Rage Rocket on Matthias this mission. He's still probably not going to get any Rage Rockets if we make Synchronization Techniques vary their cost, and drop Paradigm Shifts to 20 RPs for one turn. They'll just, y'know, be able to actually use their techniques.

Very well. But then I'd propose two things:
Firstly, paradigm shift remains as it is. If we're gonna make it so that pokebrids can use sync-techs without being shifted after all, there's no need to cheapen them and make them usable turn-by-turn.
This makes pokebrids stay pretty rage-heavy, but eh. Slap on some extra rage generation during the later classes, and we should be fine.
Secondly, if sync-techs aren't customizable, right? We should agree to keep it that way, just to separate them a bit more from sig-techs.

I should probably mention Gem that if you ask for that, then my character will get double the amount of stuff since I'm branching out into pokebrid (for only 1 level which may not count) and Slayer for 8 (which is sure to give me a few of those). With 6 level of breeders and 8 levels of Slayers, Renny would have... lots of options as opposed to if it only applied to Breeder levels.

Eh. Demon's getting buffed as well (I would hope), where's the problem?

Joking aside, let's do that, Gem. What do you suggest Slayers and Pokebrids gain in return? You tell me they should gain something, but you don't have a suggestion. So all I can do is make one up myself.
Eeeh.
Pokebrid actions seem pretty cool... But Slayer actions? I was hoping for some more accessories. Y'know, every time Trainers get a knew action, Slayers get a new accessory. Plus, y'know, an extra slot at second level, to let them carry three.
Would that work for everyone?

I think I said it twice in this thread that I wanted to work it over with you. So, give me your suggestions before I Dinner your ass.
What kind of suggestions do you want? I honestly don't know. All I proposed was that Impact's ability use be rationed by supplying him with a certain type of ability-use-only action ("tactical action")? The alternative proposal would be to make his abilities rage-fuelled, but that would require a mammoth amount of rage.

Or did you want to know, like, what kind of abilities I want as demon? I mentioned those ages ago, stuff to scout the enemy with, debuff enemies, buff allies, manipulate morale, strike hard.
Gimme 14 hours and I'll come up with something more precise (if that's indeed what you want).
Come to think of it, that's probably what you wanted, I'm just too tired to think straight.


Harem Techs are going to be strange. I'm thinking that since there's so many NPCs (particularly attractive female ones), I'd group them together and set them up to work in tandem with PCs in something called Harem Techs. I'm going to want more time with it, of course.
Oh for the love of...

Oh man, I love Geminex bashing. Seriously, it's like an addiction. A highly disturbing one.

I honestly wouldn't call what you do "geminex bashing". "Sitting on the sidelines and futilely yelling for Geminex to be bashed in order to compensate for your utter impotence", maybe.

AB: I would like to ask (DEMAND) that everyone has a select girl that cannot be taken into someone else's harem tech (or any kind of harem). I don't want anyone taking Lola into their harem just like I'd imagine Drac wouldn't want anyone taking Chizuru. And so on and so forth.

Oh goddammit man, stop it with the "LOLA IS MINE" vibe! Seriously! Yes, she is yours, nobody will take her from you because that will result in all kinds of inconvenient complications! That is a guarantee! You don't need to claim ownership OVER AND OVER AND OVER again! Seriously, enough already.
And if my guarantee still isn't good enough, then just have Renny pee on her, that'll send the message to everyone else.
In fact, forget everything else I said, just have Renny get drunk and pee on Lola.

And I really don't have enough brainpower to consider that plan right now. Tomorrow. Probably. Gimme 18 hours.

[Dracorion]

Hey, as long as you get back and discuss the plan with us before AB posts, knock yourself out.

And yes, we do need to get Renny to pee on Lola.

[Bard The 5th LW]

And yes, we do need to get Renny to pee on Lola.

.....

....

...

..

.

No way this really can't happen now.

[DanteFalcon]

I had an idea for something. Its gone now. Because I read the last 3 posts. God damnit.

[Menarker]

I should probably mention Gem that if you ask for that, then my character will get double the amount of stuff since I'm branching out into pokebrid (for only 1 level which may not count) and Slayer for 8 (which is sure to give me a few of those). With 6 level of breeders and 8 levels of Slayers, Renny would have... lots of options as opposed to if it only applied to Breeder levels.


Eh. Demon's getting buffed as well (I would hope), where's the problem?


No problem at all. Just wanted to let you know that this will definately benefit Renny in particular. But since, yes, we're expecting to see Demon class get fleshed out more, I got no objection at all. Even more so with the following...


Pokebrid actions seem pretty cool... But Slayer actions? I was hoping for some more accessories. Y'know, every time Trainers get a knew action, Slayers get a new accessory. Plus, y'know, an extra slot at second level, to let them carry three.
Would that work for everyone?


I'm cool with that. So let's say that Renny hits level 15 with the plan I showed you before. Renny would end up with 3 Trainer Actions (6 level of trainer), 1 Pokebrid Action (Comes with the form) and 4 new accessories and an extra accessory slot (8 levels of slayer). Sounds pretty cool.


Oh goddammit man, stop it with the "LOLA IS MINE" vibe! Seriously! Yes, she is yours, nobody will take her from you because that will result in all kinds of inconvenient complications! That is a guarantee! You don't need to claim ownership OVER AND OVER AND OVER again! Seriously, enough already.
And if my guarantee still isn't good enough, then just have Renny pee on her, that'll send the message to everyone else.
In fact, forget everything else I said, just have Renny get drunk and pee on Lola.

The peeing thing is not likely to happen any time soon...

I'd expect that more from Pierce... for different reasons entirely.

OK...
*Whizzz on Moera*
That's for being a psycho bitch who pisses everyone off and won't stay dead!
*Pisses on Discord*
THAT is for being a self-obssessed, fouled mouth, team-griefing cunt! Oh, and I'm NEVER giving back Dialaga! *Laughs all the while as he looks side to side with a mischievious grin*
Anyone else want to mess around with PATCA? I got a really tiny bladder and still got tons more!

... You know... you can go to the washroom without requiring a victim...


AB: A question. If I recall correctly, you said that people don't gain rage if they cast something that uses rage, right? Does that also apply to Pokebrids who are attacking while under the influence of Pokeshift? Or do they still have the ability to gain rage under that state? (Would be better if it was the latter.)

[Astral Harmony]

Pokebrid actions seem pretty cool... But Slayer actions? I was hoping for some more accessories. Y'know, every time Trainers get a knew action, Slayers get a new accessory. Plus, y'know, an extra slot at second level, to let them carry three.
Would that work for everyone?

Why didn't you suggest that in the first place?

Let's do this, then. Slayers can hold a third accessory at Slayer level 4 and a fourth at Overblade level 3. Then I'll create a whole bunch of accessories.

And if you prefer to make custom accessories, then I'd better see some suggestions or you won't get what you want, as usual. And then I'll have to hear you complain about it, as usual. And then Dracorian gets to laugh his ass off at you, as usual.

AB: A question. If I recall correctly, you said that people don't gain rage if they cast something that uses rage, right? Does that also apply to Pokebrids who are attacking while under the influence of Pokeshift? Or do they still have the ability to gain rage under that state? (Would be better if it was the latter.)

No Rage is gained from using attacks that require Rage, and this includes any attack while in Paradigm Shift.

Additionally, much to everyone's chagrin, I'm going to be nerfing the Medics right after Mission 3. From now on, they're only going to have certain items, and Rage Rockets, which is pretty much all you have the Medic around for anyways, will most definitely not be one of them.

There will be no compromise, there will be no "we promise not to make her use Rage Rockets all the time anymore" or "maybe if she can only use one Rage Rocket per turn" bullshit. I'm going to nerf those Medics, period. The logic I'm going to use in-game is that it's costing entirely too much money to maintain an infinite supply of high quality items like, you guessed it, Rage Rockets, Max Revives, Full Heals and Full Restores, including items with similar functions. You can carry all that crap but I'm cutting the Medic off of it.

Pokemon Umbral...a worse case of Medic abuse has never existed.

[Dracorion]

Why didn't you suggest that in the first place?

I promised I wouldn't do this...

Let's do this, then. Slayers can hold a third accessory at Slayer level 4 and a fourth at Overblade level 3. Then I'll create a whole bunch of accessories.

And if you prefer to make custom accessories, then I'd better see some suggestions or you won't get what you want, as usual. And then I'll have to hear you complain about it, as usual. And then Dracorian gets to laugh his ass off at you, as usual.

Sounds about right.

Although, I must note my displeasure at Menarker getting a fourth accessory. Maybe make it available at Overblade 4?

Additionally, much to everyone's chagrin, I'm going to be nerfing the Medics right after Mission 3. From now on, they're only going to have certain items, and Rage Rockets, which is pretty much all you have the Medic around for anyways, will most definitely not be one of them.

There will be no compromise, there will be no "we promise not to make her use Rage Rockets all the time anymore" or "maybe if she can only use one Rage Rocket per turn" bullshit. I'm going to nerf those Medics, period. The logic I'm going to use in-game is that it's costing entirely too much money to maintain an infinite supply of high quality items like, you guessed it, Rage Rockets, Max Revives, Full Heals and Full Restores, including items with similar functions. You can carry all that crap but I'm cutting the Medic off of it.

Eh, sure, what the hell. We'll probably still only be using them for heals anyway.

Pokemon Umbral...a worse case of Medic abuse has never existed.

Okay, I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I know there's something out there.

Anyone wanna help me out here?

I'd expect that more from Pierce... for different reasons entirely.

OK...
*Whizzz on Moera*
That's for being a psycho bitch who pisses everyone off and won't stay dead!
*Pisses on Discord*
THAT is for being a self-obssessed, fouled mouth, team-griefing cunt! Oh, and I'm NEVER giving back Dialaga! *Laughs all the while as he looks side to side with a mischievious grin*
Anyone else want to mess around with PATCA? I got a really tiny bladder and still got tons more!

... You know... you can go to the washroom without requiring a victim...

You do realize that out of all the characters, Renny and Dormond are the ones most likely to suffer from incontinence, because of their age?

Not to mention Renny being a giant pussy.

More importantly, it seems like a waste if it's not hurting anyone.

[Menarker]

No Rage is gained from using attacks that require Rage, and this includes any attack while in Paradigm Shift.


What about if the person under Paradigm shift would normally gain rage from other sources?

IE: If Renny Paradigm Shifted and his pokemons attacked and got hurt as normal. Are you saying that being shifted would exclude him from every aspect of gaining rage?

It seems curious that one of the class features of a rage heavy class would be to cut itself off from the supply of rage it needs to keep up with other classes...

This is just my thought, but I'd move for removing that particular restriction, because if Impact's suggestion is followed and we keep Paradigm Shift as is, I think locking out a player out of rage for 3 turns is rather unfair.


Also, you say that Medic won't have Full Restore, Rage Rockets and that sort of thing. Could you give a list of stuff that they WOULD have? And are those particular items in infinite supply or will they be limited like during the first mission?




Although, I must note my displeasure at Menarker getting a fourth accessory. Maybe make it available at Overblade 4?


Hey, you got a legitmate reason why you're directing that particular suggestion? Cause it sounds an awful like player-specific griefing to me. Maybe I should suggest that some of the better upgrades for Demon should be too high for Pierce to reach?

Basically, is there a legit reason why ANY random player should have to wait until level 4, whether it be Bard, Dante, me, you or Gem?


Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo
Additionally, much to everyone's chagrin, I'm going to be nerfing the Medics right after Mission 3. From now on, they're only going to have certain items, and Rage Rockets, which is pretty much all you have the Medic around for anyways, will most definitely not be one of them.

There will be no compromise, there will be no "we promise not to make her use Rage Rockets all the time anymore" or "maybe if she can only use one Rage Rocket per turn" bullshit. I'm going to nerf those Medics, period. The logic I'm going to use in-game is that it's costing entirely too much money to maintain an infinite supply of high quality items like, you guessed it, Rage Rockets, Max Revives, Full Heals and Full Restores, including items with similar functions. You can carry all that crap but I'm cutting the Medic off of it.


Eh, sure, what the hell. We'll probably still only be using them for heals anyway.

AB just said that they would lose Full Restores, Full Heals, Max Revives... pretty much all the stuff used for healing except for the partial heals.

[Dracorion]

Hey, you got a legitmate reason why you're directing that particular barb? Cause it sounds like player specific griefing to me. Maybe I should suggest that some of the better upgrades for Demon should be too high for Pierce to reach?

How does "not giving the min-maxer more fuel to cheat" grab you as justification?

And sure, feel free to suggest that Pierce shouldn't get some of the Demon upgrades.

Except, of course, Demons are completely customizable and it's not really up to you. You'd probably be better off suggesting against Pierce getting a Breeder upgrade of some sort.

AB just said that they would lose Full Restores, Full Heals, Max Revives... pretty much all the stuff used for healing except for the partial heals.

What, and partial heals are worthless why would weeverusethemarrrrgggghhh?

AB, since Medics are losing Full Heals, can we request that they get specific items to deal with the status effects you invented for this RP? (Y'know, Plasmaburn, Deep Freeze, Exhaustion, Apathy, etc.)

[Menarker]

How does "not giving the min-maxer more fuel to cheat" grab you as justification?

And sure, feel free to suggest that Pierce shouldn't get some of the Demon upgrades.

Except, of course, Demons are completely customizable and it's not really up to you. You'd probably be better off suggesting against Pierce getting a Breeder upgrade of some sort.


I already promised and agreed to the entire not-min-maxing thing and I believe I've been keeping to that, being rather upfront about just about every single possibility of what it would do to my character for every suggestion anyone has made. That and I believe I've been doing well in advocating power boosts to pokebrids so Dante and anyone who invests heavily in them would benefit, but someone like me who is only splashing in it wouldn't. That and my proposed Trainer Action looked very balanced and I tried to help your moves being strong yet balanced too. I think you're being rather uncharitable and unfair about this.

AB also said that he was making the Demon class so there would be a power guide as to what abilities would be applicable with what levels. So frankly, one could say that I could vouch a certain ability to be higher power than it should be. That would be unfair to you. But it would also be unfair to Gem and anyone else planning to go Demon in the future. Plus, anyone else wanting to be a slayer would be effected too by your suggestions

So really, try not to be hateful about upgrades.

[Dracorion]

Just because you're being upfront about everything doesn't mean we should instantly approve. It still needs to be discussed.

(PS: Geminex, don't think I haven't noticed you're a filthy liar who won't help me balance my trainer actions or even respond arrrgghhdon'teventrytogive your patented excusethatyou'reshortontimeitwon't work on me I'm here every day slavingtokeepacleanRPforyouandthisishowyoutreatme I'M LEAVING YOU)

[Menarker]

I'm not moving for instant approval. But it certainly shows that I'm not attempting to be a min-maxer if all the details are on the board to see and I'm playing within the rules everyone agreed on. Which is the entire basis of your argument, that I can't be trusted to begin with. With that negative attitude coloring your judgement, you're effecting upgrades which would effect everyone who would think of being slayer/overblade in the future.

As for you saying it needs to be discussed, you evaded my question. What possible reason do you have of moving the proposed upgrade from 3rd level like AB suggested to fourth, aside from you not trusting me and thus not wanting to give it to me?

[Dracorion]

Nope, I pretty much just don't trust you.

And technically, being open about being a min-maxer doesn't necessarily mean you're not trying to min-max.

Also, I'm fairly certain no one else is planning to go Overblade, or if they are, not as high as you.

But I guess you're right. Though, if it turns out I'm right and you shouldn't get a fourth accessory, I will claim Lola as my prize.

So think twice about min-maxing that fourth accessory. And then think again.

[Menarker]

You have my word. (Although I'll kill you if you think of taking Lola! Not Pierce. YOU. =P)

Of course, best for me to see what accessories AB come up with. I wouldn't need to even think of inventing new custom accessories if the ones that AB make are awesome enough. Plus, some of the current accessories are already great.

[Dracorion]

You have my word. (Although I'll kill you if you think of taking Lola! Not Pierce. YOU. =P)

You're welcome to try. But I will take Lola. That is the only condition by which I will let you have a fourth accessory at Overblade 3.

Of course, best for me to see what accessories AB come up with. I wouldn't need to even think of inventing new custom accessories if the ones that AB make are awesome enough. Plus, some of the current accessories are already great.

Most of 'em suck though.

To clarify, if your just having a fourth accessory turns out wrong, I will take Lola.

[Astral Harmony]

Yeah, a Pokebrid/Deva is Paradigm Shift will still get Rage from recieving damage and Rage Rockets. Just not attacking.

...I think I'm going to change the name of the Rage Rocket. I'm surprised nobody giggled when I invented it because it's clearly a good euphamism for...y'know...that thing.

Medics will have an infinite if basic inventory.

- Restore: recovers 50% of MaxHP.
- Revive: revives the unit with 50% MaxHP.
- X items and Dire Hit: all those items that raise a stat by one level.
- Status Heals: all those items that heal one status effect like Antidote, Awakening, and Burn Heal. There will be additional items for all the status effects unique to Pokemon Umbral. For more serious status effects like Plasmaburn and Fire, the appropriate healing item (in this case, a Burn Heal) will downgrade the status effect to something less severe, and then one more appropriate item will be needed to remove the effect completely.

And I think that's about it.

[Dracorion]

...I think I'm going to change the name of the Rage Rocket. I'm surprised nobody giggled when I invented it because it's clearly a good euphamism for...y'know...that thing.

Too easy.

[Menarker]

You're welcome to try. But I will take Lola. That is the only condition by which I will let you have a fourth accessory at Overblade 3.


To clarify, if your just having a fourth accessory turns out wrong, I will take Lola.

I thought the entire premise was that I won't Min-Max with accessories. I AM NOT conceding on allowing you to take Lola on some flimsy premise such as "Oh, he's using some weak ass accessories with way too much skill. Clearly, having 4 accessories was a mistake." Or any other such premise similar to that!

Man, I'm seriously wondering why you're becoming such an ass all the sudden. And not the playful joking ass either.

AB: Wouldn't Smelling Salt combine a little too well with moves like Endeavor and Reversal which power themselves by how little hitpoints the user has?

[Dracorion]

I thought the entire premise was that I won't Min-Max with accessories. I AM NOT conceding on allowing you to take Lola on some flimsy premise such as "Oh, he's using some weak ass accessories with way too much skill. Clearly, having 4 accessories was a mistake." Or any other such premise similar to that!

Don't worry, I promise I won't take away Lola on a flimsy premise such as "Oh, he's using some weak ass accessories with way too much skill. Clearly, having 4 accessories was a mistake." Or any other such premise similar to that!

Man, I'm seriously wondering why you're becoming such an ass all the sudden. And not the playful joking ass either.

Eh, I'm wondering too.

My best guess is that I've gotten a too comfortable with you jerks.

AB: Wouldn't Smelling Salt combine a little too well with moves like Endeavor and Reversal which power themselves by how little hitpoints the user has?

Yep, you're probably better off going with reviving a pokemon to 25% or 50% of the max HP or something.

[Astral Harmony]

Revives, then. Sheesh.

Anyways, don't worry about ol' Draccy. No way could that fucker make any claim on Lola. She's already got harem immunity. Which means she's with Renny, whether anyone likes it at all or not. And Renny's the only one who can say otherwise.

Go ahead. Try it. Lola will have one of those cheesy anime "power of love" things going on that will defeat any scheme you have cooked up.

[Menarker]

Anyways, don't worry about ol' Draccy. No way could that fucker make any claim on Lola. She's already got harem immunity. Which means she's with Renny, whether anyone likes it at all or not. And Renny's the only one who can say otherwise.

Go ahead. Try it. Lola will have one of those cheesy anime "power of love" things going on that will defeat any scheme you have cooked up.

^^ This made all my headaches and frustration from the last few hours go away.

Thanks AB. ^^

[Dracorion]

You do realize I have more than one character and I can think of at least two that would be perfectly happy in a monogamous relationship with the hot Lopunny nurse.

Plus, they're not underage!

Most importantly, Menarker doesn't have a choice if he wants me to let him get that extra accessory at Overblade 3. Then, all he has to do is make sure it doesn't go wrong, and I've already promised I won't be unfair about it.

So I think he got a pretty sweet deal.

[Astral Harmony]

But Renny claimed the Lopunny nurse first!

First! First! Flippity first! Fucking first! Goddamn...first!

Lola wouldn't want Pierce. She's already kinda emotionally locked onto Renny. And she sure as hell wouldn't want Elizabeth, regardless of how awesome I think that would be.

If you go after Lola in-character, then you can kiss Chizuru goodbye. And Shizuka. You're gonna hafta hook up with Dinner.

And believe it, trying to hook up with Dinner is far too volatile a situation, even for a man as in-control as Pierce would like to believe he is.

[Dracorion]

... Wanna bet?

[Astral Harmony]

Two words, Pierce.

Unmarked grave.

[Dracorion]

And who says Sophia and Sam can't be bisexual?

[Geminex]

And believe it, trying to hook up with Dinner is far too volatile a situation, even for a man as in-control as Pierce would like to believe he is.

Didn't I claim Dinner ages ago? I still insist on that, you know.

AB. Dinner. Mine. Harem immunity. NOW.

As for the extra accessory on Overblade level 3, I have a much better reason why it shouldn't be: Overblade 3 already gets double attack. It's already the strongest single level-up in the RP. I really don't think it needs to get even stronger. Make it level 4, and we can agree to have it slip back to 3 if we nerf double attack.

And Drac, gonna suggest the balancing once I suggest the improvements for the plan. It's all coming, I swear! Gimme one more chance, I'll change!

[Dracorion]

Gimme one more chance, I'll change!

You always say that!

And then I'm left alone, watching the kids while you're out gallivanting with your friends on your silly little pathetic plots to conquer the world!

[Menarker]

Ah. If Double Attack is going to stay as is, then I can stand the fourth accessory being at level 4 Overblade no problem. I would agree that having both on the same level would be too much.

Didn't I claim Dinner ages ago? I still insist on that, you know.

AB. Dinner. Mine. Harem immunity. NOW.


See Gem? That's what I was moving for before. Not just trying to claim Lola (again) but also giving others the security of not having their prime romantic interest taken by someone else.

[Dracorion]

See, but that arrangement doesn't get me Lola just to spite Menarker.

[Menarker]

^^; The reasons why you would want to spite me in the first place is a mystery. Unless you just want me to assume you were trolling again.

[Dracorion]

I want to spite all of you.

Y'know, in the ass.

[Astral Harmony]

I thought we wanted to get rid of Double Attack and reduce the amount of Rage required to reuse accessories? I even put it in the document. 35 RPs required to do that stuff.

[Menarker]

Well, I wouldn't mind Double Attack. ^_^ Not one bit.

[Geminex]

I thought we wanted to get rid of Double Attack and reduce the amount of Rage required to reuse accessories? I even put it in the document. 35 RPs required to do that stuff.

Oh, really? God, you people need to tell me these things. In that case, sure. Let the 4th accessory be Slayer level 3 if it really must. Though then again, level 3 is still stronger than 4, what with the stats boost. Leaving it at 4 would be preferable.
Look, Menarker, do you really need a fourth one? Really?

Kay, new rule. If there's anything you think I should definitely read and respond to (or, y'know, just know about), put it IN RED.
I'll read all the orange stuff certainly, and I'll probably skim the other stuff, but anything I should know? Red, please.

And I've reconsidered accessories.
The way it is now, we get one free use, and then every use costs 50. Is 35 rage now the standard cost, or the cost after the upgrade? Don't have time to check.
Anyway, how about this: We drop the rage cost by another 5-10 rage, but remove the "initial free use". Makes accessories more tactical, I think, and a bit more important in combat. Your thoughts, AB?

Also:
I'm cool with that. So let's say that Renny hits level 15 with the plan I showed you before. Renny would end up with 3 Trainer Actions (6 level of trainer), 1 Pokebrid Action (Comes with the form) and 4 new accessories and an extra accessory slot (8 levels of slayer). Sounds pretty cool.
Waitwaitwait.
He wouldn't get the accessory slot, obviously! Just as he wouldn't be able to use both a pokebrid action and a trainer action in the same turn. He'd get to come up with new accessories, and he'd get to select 3 trainer actions and one pokebrid action, but he'd only be able to use the benefits of one of those every turn, obviously (otherwise he'd be getting more power because he invests in a larger variety of classes, and that'd be imbalanced, since for everyone to have equal strength, everyone else would have to go "variety" as well). And for Slayer, that translates into removing the accessory slot. That is acceptable, I hope?

Also, people, this is another reason I want everything to be self-customizable: It makes balancing way easier. No, stop laughing. Seriously. Because the class progression isn't balanced, the way AB has made it. It wouldn't be if I devoted a week to balancing it. If everyone gets 15 levels to invest, then the player's power will depend on the way they invest them. And like I said, this isn't supposed to be a competitive RP. I'm hoping I've made the point that it'll be most enjoyable if there's parity in strength. And if we want parity, equality, we're gonna have to nerf everyone separately anyway, since there's no way to set up the class progression in a way that makes every avenue, every specialization, have equal strength.

Or, y'know, we could just go straight to "nerf everyone separately". With a lot less work.

Now back to the other stuff...
DRAC'S TRAINER ACTIONS:
Combined attack seems fine.

Trainer attack...
Eeeeh. Not so sure. I mean, the concept is cool. I'm just uncertain whether you should get the Slayer probabilities...
Let's try it. If it gets abused, I reserve the right to call for a nerf.

Five-Star-Deluxe-Special: This one's interesting. Not sure about any of them, they either seem too weak or too strong.
How about this: One target, 20%. Only one target can be affected at a time. Getting damaged dispels effect. Can target pokemon that aren't on the field.

Mock and Willpower both seem cool.


Plan... is acceptable. I'm not sure if it'd have been wiser to focus fire a bit more, but very well.
Also, if we get all the kills that I hope we're gonna get, PsyRenny's Shadow Rush is gonna hurt. Hell, it's gonna hurt already, if AB's cruel enough to make it count all the units that already have fallen this battle. That's what? A dozen?
Are you lookin forward to getting hit a dozen types? Hey, Drac, how would you like to have your pokemon get knocked out by a psychic embodiment of Renny, of all things? Not much? Me neither. But I fear that that may be what we've got coming if we go through with this.

Also, gonna nerf CC&C and buff Dark Ambition after this battle.

[Menarker]

Gem, if you really want to be being part of the "balancing process", you should be reading the entire thing, not skimming it and only reading sections.

Oh, really? God, you people need to tell me these things. In that case, sure. Let the 4th accessory be Slayer level 3 if it really must. Though then again, level 3 is still stronger than 4, what with the stats boost. Leaving it at 4 would be preferable.
Look, Menarker, do you really need a fourth one? Really?


I barely care about the stat boost one shit to be honest. They are like the effects of leftovers. Additive bonuses as small as that are barely noticeable and don't seem to contribute to combat. It's why I'm replacing leftovers for all future mission with things like Lum Berries, since I don't think AB even bothers to deal with them. It's nice to have them just to know that it is at that point that a character's physical strength should rise at that point, but I can't possibly contribute that upgrade in a dicussion of any battle plans we make. I only see the stat boost as being a way to say that the character stays proportionally effective against the increasing toughness of foes.

For passive upgrades, I'd want something that is not additive so much as "on/off" or binary code. I either clear cut have that ability/item or I don't. Immunity to a pokemon type? I can claim that as a damn useful ability since I can actually take that in account for a plan. Double Attack? DAMN SKIPPY. I would know that my character has that capability. But stat boost? That's more gravy than anything, since I can't even tell how strong my character is compared to my allies, nevermind my enemies!

With the above leftovers/Lum berry example: If my pokemon gets hurt but then doesn't get hit for some turns later, then a strong foe hits it and presumably knocks it out. I might debate endlessly about how that pokemon should have survived due to regenerating enough to regain health closer to its max. But then AB might say it was just that strong and my pokemon was weak enough to knock out in one hit. There is no solid basis on which the item actually supports the pokemon since it's like 2 kids playing cop and robbers with pretend guns and one kid protesting "I shot you" "No, you missed" "You Liar!" "Nuh uh! I shoot you instead and you're dead now!".
Now, with the Lum berry, if AB tries to afflict my pokemon with a status effect and forgets to change it back, I can say "AB, my pokemon should be status free due to the Lum Berry." and AB would fix it because that's a clear cut effect of what should happen because the item/ability straight out demands that is what happens in those circumstances. The same is why I don't view stat improvements with anything other than saying "Renny's physical strength has grown to keep up proportionally effective against the scaling enemy difficulty."

So, you're basically telling me that for my level 3, you want me to only have one useful ability (the immunity) and I lose both Double Attack and a 4th accessory (Which you proceeded to say I can't have later on due to balance). I say you nerfed WAY TOO FAR.


And I've reconsidered accessories.
The way it is now, we get one free use, and then every use costs 50. Is 35 rage now the standard cost, or the cost after the upgrade? Don't have time to check.
Anyway, how about this: We drop the rage cost by another 5-10 rage, but remove the "initial free use". Makes accessories more tactical, I think, and a bit more important in combat. Your thoughts, AB?

:mad:

The way it was going to go, the dropping down to 35 rage after the one free use was supposed to an upgrade at like Overblade 1 or so, not standard. Also, you're making things way more expensive, especially if Renny loses the ability to Double Attack and gain rage that way.

How the hell does dropping the cost a bit and removing the free use make them "more important"? If anything, that makes them LESS important and less useful since I'd only horde rage for my techniques and typically more useful actions. Pokebrid's Paradigm Shift which you say to leave in its cluncky 60 rage 3 turn effect also stops Renny from getting rage.

Let's see... What does Renny have to spend rage on to begin with? There is Paradigm Shift for pokebrid. There is Testament Drives, Divide, and Focus for trainers. There are Renny's Co-Op Tech and Love Tech. And there is presumably the Slayer's Sweep and Overpower (Status Cure) and of course the accessories.

Clearly, I would be hordeing my rage for my "more importatant stuff" like Renny's techs and maybe Sweep or Testament Drives! Stuff like Paradigm Shift and accessories remain unused because you can't convince me to see them having any significant use compared to the other abilities when they are hampered with their relatively lower power at proportionally higher costs!
I mean look at one of the accessories that cures status conditions? Slayers later on get Overpower which does the same but costs less! Toxic accessory? The poison slayer weapon is sure to be SO much better at doing the job (and that's not counting the fact that practically every pokemon can use Toxic, hence going Pokebrid outstrips its use.)
Clearly, I feel there is something wrong with your analysis or even how you're processing all this.


Waitwaitwait.
He wouldn't get the accessory slot, obviously! Just as he wouldn't be able to use both a pokebrid action and a trainer action in the same turn. He'd get to come up with new accessories, and he'd get to select 3 trainer actions and one pokebrid action, but he'd only be able to use the benefits of one of those every turn, obviously (otherwise he'd be getting more power because he invests in a larger variety of classes, and that'd be imbalanced, since for everyone to have equal strength, everyone else would have to go "variety" as well). And for Slayer, that translates into removing the accessory slot. That is acceptable, I hope?


What does an item slot have to do with actions at all, especially since you're intending to also remove the first free use of the accessory? Not being able to use pokebrid action and trainer action at the same time makes sense. But carrying capacity is not the same as trying to multi-task.

You're stacking way too many nerfs at the same time and they are adding up to be something I feel is drastically unfair since you also intend to remove Double Attack which is a source of rage gathering. Oh, and also moving to maintain Paradigm shift as it is, thus Renny is FURTHER having rage problems by being unable to gain rage when attacking for 3 turns as opposed to only not being able to gain rage on the turn he uses it.

Let's see, you want to remove Double Attack. You want to have Renny have 4th accessory slot at level 4 not have 4th accessory slot PERIOD for some obscure reason related to my triple classing although saying that other people who take slayer levels can. Remove the free use of accessory. Hampered Paradigm Shift which compounds rage problems. And what do you say I'm getting for it? A token drop in rage for accessories?

My reaction is: WHAT THE HELL GUYS? You can't honestly expect me to believe this is remotely fair. This is clearly nerfing, not balancing! I'd almost think this is character/player specific griefing.

How about we all wait for AB to post his demon class so we know what standards to raise or lower upgrades? This is clearly a game of the blind leading the blind at the moment.

Anyhow, I got to get to work. See you all later.

[Dracorion]

Anyway, how about this: We drop the rage cost by another 5-10 rage, but remove the "initial free use". Makes accessories more tactical, I think, and a bit more important in combat. Your thoughts, AB?

Honestly? I'm rather against making Slayers more Rage-centric. We already have Pokebrids for that!

Though, I don't agree with Menarker's response to this either.

Anyway, yeah, the "make them less costly" bit was supposed to come as an upgrade later.

He wouldn't get the accessory slot, obviously! Just as he wouldn't be able to use both a pokebrid action and a trainer action in the same turn. He'd get to come up with new accessories, and he'd get to select 3 trainer actions and one pokebrid action, but he'd only be able to use the benefits of one of those every turn, obviously (otherwise he'd be getting more power because he invests in a larger variety of classes, and that'd be imbalanced, since for everyone to have equal strength, everyone else would have to go "variety" as well). And for Slayer, that translates into removing the accessory slot. That is acceptable, I hope?

I dunno about that. Trading away a passive upgrade like the third accessory slot seems rather imbalanced. Trainer Actions and Pokebrid Actions need to be activated individually, so it makes sense that what he'd have to give up would be something similar.

What if, instead of losing the third accessory slot... hmm, gotta figure out how to word this one properly:

If Menarker uses an accessory, he can no longer use a Trainer Action or Pokebrid Action that turn. And if he uses a Trainer Action or Pokebrid Action, he can't use accessories that turn. That way, he can still use multiple accessories, so long as he has the Rage.

And of course, he could only use one Trainer Action or one Pokebrid Action at a time, like you said.

Also, people, this is another reason I want everything to be self-customizable: It makes balancing way easier. No, stop laughing. Seriously. Because the class progression isn't balanced, the way AB has made it. It wouldn't be if I devoted a week to balancing it. If everyone gets 15 levels to invest, then the player's power will depend on the way they invest them. And like I said, this isn't supposed to be a competitive RP. I'm hoping I've made the point that it'll be most enjoyable if there's parity in strength. And if we want parity, equality, we're gonna have to nerf everyone separately anyway, since there's no way to set up the class progression in a way that makes every avenue, every specialization, have equal strength.

Or, y'know, we could just go straight to "nerf everyone separately". With a lot less work.

Okay...

How about this, everyone customizes their own classes, but they're still classes and they have to be heavily based on the current upgrades.

Because I like the idea of us having separate classes with badass names for each one and each combination.

"Heavily based" doesn't have to be all that restrictive. People can still come up with any upgrades they want for a class, or move around some of the existing ones. Like a Breeder could get a custom move or an Xth-level pokemon one or two levels sooner than they would, but it has to be balanced with the rest of their upgrades. Or a Slayer could get their RPDA sooner, or halve the cost of accessories. Or a Pokebrid could get Paradigm Shifts that last for one turn and cost 20 RPs.

Now back to the other stuff...
DRAC'S TRAINER ACTIONS:

Now you deign yourself to do it? WELL IT'S TOO LATE, I TOOK THE KIDS AND I'M STAYING WITH MY SISTER.

Trainer attack...
Eeeeh. Not so sure. I mean, the concept is cool. I'm just uncertain whether you should get the Slayer probabilities...
Let's try it. If it gets abused, I reserve the right to call for a nerf.

Fair enough, done.

Five-Star-Deluxe-Special: This one's interesting. Not sure about any of them, they either seem too weak or too strong.
How about this: One target, 20%. Only one target can be affected at a time. Getting damaged dispels effect. Can target pokemon that aren't on the field.

I assume you mean 20% regeneration. I hope you realize there's nothing stopping me from using it and Tyranitar and having him use Protect every turn while Tyranistorm takes out every enemy. It'd take forever, but at 3/32th of their HP every turn, we'd get there. Especially if I bring along some X-items and shit to buff his defences for everything that gets through Protect.

But hey, assuming you agree, there's only one more issue.

AB, I assume we're still doing that thing where Trainers only get one Trainer Action every even level?

If we are, then I guess I have to pick two of those Trainer Actions, and then a third once Pierce hits Breeder 1. Goddamnit this is gonna suck.

Also, if we get all the kills that I hope we're gonna get, PsyRenny's Shadow Rush is gonna hurt.

It'd be nice if I could actually remember what Valiant Rush actually did.

HEY MENARKER, REPOST VALIANT RUSH OR PUT IT IN YOUR BIO, YA JERK.

Hell, it's gonna hurt already, if AB's cruel enough to make it count all the units that already have fallen this battle. That's what? A dozen?
Are you lookin forward to getting hit a dozen types?

Oh, I hardly think he'd do that.

More importantly, I'm fairly certain Psyshades work on Rage. I think it's safe to assume PsyRenny starts with 50 RPs, I just don't know if he has enough to use Shadow Rush, seeing as how MENARKER DOESN'T HAVE VALIANT RUSH IN HIS BIO, THAT JERK.

Also, gonna nerf CC&C and buff Dark Ambition after this battle.

Awwww, is your Signature Technique not getting enough love?



stat boosts

:mad:

Are you saying stat boosts suck?

OH MAN WOW THEN I GUESS YOU SHOULD THROW AWAY YOUR MOLLESK WITH HIS USELESS STAT BOOST-RELIANCE, HUH? YEAH, DO THAT.

Do you understand how much of a hypocrite you're coming off as right now?

Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny

It's all Renny this and Renny that with you, huh?

This affects everyone else taking levels in Slayer too, y'know? Which so far is you, Geminex, and me. And maybe Bard too.

We do need to balance this stuff. And after we've balanced it, if you don't want to be so Rage-reliant, don't take a Rage-reliant class.

What does an item slot have to do with actions at all, especially since you're intending to also remove the first free use of the accessory? Not being able to use pokebrid action and trainer action at the same time makes sense. But carrying capacity is not the same as trying to multi-task.

I hope you mean "accessory slot", and I've already given my views on this.

You're still wrong, though.

You're stacking way too many nerfs at the same time and they are adding up to be something I feel is drastically unfair since you also intend to remove Double Attack which is a source of rage gathering. Oh, and also moving to maintain Paradigm shift as it is, thus Renny is FURTHER having rage problems by being unable to gain rage when attacking for 3 turns as opposed to only not being able to gain rage on the turn he uses it.

Renny Renny Renny Renny Renny.

We are removing Double Attack and that's final. So seriously, stop bringing it up.

Let's see, you want to remove Double Attack.

I could've sworn you'd agreed to this.

You want to have Renny have 4th accessory slot at level 4 not have 4th accessory slot PERIOD for some obscure reason related to my triple classing although saying that other people who take slayer levels can.

No no, this would affect anyone. If any of us wanted a fourth accessory, we'd have to take Overblade 4. That's period.

Seriously, stop making this about you.

I was making it about you, of course, but Geminex isn't.

My reaction is: WHAT THE HELL GUYS? You can't honestly expect me to believe this is remotely fair. This is clearly nerfing, not balancing! I'd almost think this is character/player specific griefing.

Nerfing can be balancing.

So I think your argument should be that this nerf does not contribute to balancing.

[Astral Harmony]

Anyway, how about this: We drop the rage cost by another 5-10 rage, but remove the "initial free use". Makes accessories more tactical, I think, and a bit more important in combat. Your thoughts, AB?

30 Rage for Accessory use would allow a distinction between Sweep (which hits two adjacent targets with the same attack and the Stamina Boost accessory, which allows for double attack. That was actually what I was looking for all along in this whole Double Attack arguement.

I can accept that, but because we're doing away with free initial use that way, I want to up the effectiveness of all accessories and those that will be added later.

AB, I assume we're still doing that thing where Trainers only get one Trainer Action every even level?

Only one Action per turn, no matter which class it comes from.

HEY MENARKER, REPOST VALIANT RUSH OR PUT IT IN YOUR BIO, YA JERK.

Strangely enough, I don't have it in my document, either.

-----

Sorry about the post not being here yet. That nap I took ended up being more like cryogenic slumber.

[Dracorion]

Strangely enough, I don't have it in my document, either.

Oh, well then nevermind.

Sorry about the post not being here yet. That nap I took ended up being more like cryogenic slumber.

Eh, as long as you post eventually.

[Astral Harmony]

I'll try to have it done tonight.

And I won't play Sexy Beach 3 or watch Sgt. Frog until it's done.

[Dracorion]

I dunno, I could make an exception for Sexy Beach 3.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Wow it has been a while since I posted.

Anyways, what with all of these proposed buffs and nerfs, Charlotte is both getting ahead and behind the others.

If the Trainer Action thing is possible, then I like the idea of that 'Kick the puppy' thing mentioned. Damage loss for a stat boost.

And I actually have a 'Relationship Technique' thing vaguely in mind, but the only character whom I can imagine having any relaions with Charlotte likely won't be introduced until the sidequest.

[Dracorion]

Note to Charlotte: The one that looks like Pierce is already quite obviously dibbed on.

Sure, you can damage it if you want, but the kill goes to Pierce.

[Geminex]

Valiant rush, I believe, involves Renny attacking multiple times. He pays rage for every attack, but gets rage equal to the cost of one attack if there's unconscious allies on the field.

I'm not sure how strong it is exactly, but if AB counts every dead enemy as an unconcious ally, we have a lot of free attacks coming our way.

I can accept that, but because we're doing away with free initial use that way, I want to up the effectiveness of all accessories and those that will be added later.
That's cool. Not all of them, mind. There's a few that are already, I think, strong enough.
Though... if we only reduce the cost by 5, that'd leave us with 45 rage for accessory use. I'd rather have it so that it gets reduced to 40, at least, but the accessories don't get powered up as much. Maybe even go down to 35 and keep their power constant (while removing the initial free use), and then later reduce the cost by another 5 and buff them then?

And my thinking was that Slayers are effectively being discouraged from reusing their accessories by the high reusing cost. This way, accessories don't get used early in battle and then get forgotten, they can be used throughout the battle.

Okay...

How about this, everyone customizes their own classes, but they're still classes and they have to be heavily based on the current upgrades.

Because I like the idea of us having separate classes with badass names for each one and each combination.

"Heavily based" doesn't have to be all that restrictive. People can still come up with any upgrades they want for a class, or move around some of the existing ones. Like a Breeder could get a custom move or an Xth-level pokemon one or two levels sooner than they would, but it has to be balanced with the rest of their upgrades. Or a Slayer could get their RPDA sooner, or halve the cost of accessories. Or a Pokebrid could get Paradigm Shifts that last for one turn and cost 20 RPs.
That's pretty much exactly what I meant. We'd come up with our own stuff, while basing it on the existing stuff, we'd assign a class to each level-up we take. Bingo. We'd still get the badass names, of course.

If Menarker uses an accessory, he can no longer use a Trainer Action or Pokebrid Action that turn. And if he uses a Trainer Action or Pokebrid Action, he can't use accessories that turn. That way, he can still use multiple accessories, so long as he has the Rage.
Eh... I don't know, actually. But I saw it this way:
Trainers and snaggers get two things: One, an additional action. Two, an increasing variety of moves to use with this action.

Pokebrids get two things: One, an additional action. Two, an increasing variety of moves to use with this action.

Slayers get two things: One, an additional accessory slot. Two, an increasing variety of accessories to put into this slot.

Since we agree that characters should only get one extra action (i.e. the action that their primary class gets them), that should translate to Slayer as well, obviously. And there the "active" bonus is getting an extra accessory slot. So we remove that. It's logical, even if the extra slot isn't all that active.
Unless you have a better idea? And no, Menarker, "JUST LEAVE IT AS IT IS" is not a valid suggestion.

Though I'll agree to wait with addressing the rest of your points until we get the demon template.

[Dracorion]

Yeah, but see, the problem is that removing the extra slot is permanent. With the Trainer Actions and Pokebrid Actions, you can still choose to use the other one next turn.

Unless you're saying that he would simply be unable to use the item in the extra slot.

Like, Menarker would specify that he put a Stamina Boost in the fourth slot. If he uses a Trainer Action or a Pokebrid Action that turn, he can't use that Stamina Boost, but he can still use his other accessories, is that what you're saying?

[Menarker]

Are you saying stat boosts suck?

OH MAN WOW THEN I GUESS YOU SHOULD THROW AWAY YOUR MOLLESK WITH HIS USELESS STAT BOOST-RELIANCE, HUH? YEAH, DO THAT.

Do you understand how much of a hypocrite you're coming off as right now?



>_> I said additive. Did you read what I said properly? Who am I kidding? Of course you didn't. Firstly, Mollesk's defense is based on a preexisting pokemon, as opposed to the slayers whose stats are difficult to measure (especially compounded if I go Pokebrid which have modified stats of their own). Secondly, Cosmic Power and Simple are Multiplicative. They actually have relatively easily measurable boosts because it's easy to say something is twice as powerful or twice as weak as normal. Saying something is 15 points higher is... not as easy to imagine.
AB, as far as I know, doesn't use math or formulas a whole lot when dealing with combat resolution, but rather a lot of guesstimating the overall effect. Things like Twice as much, Half as Much, or *applying a specific effect* actually tends to be included in his synopsis, especially because it is easier to grasp. Things that are "minor" and "hard to add up mentally" like leftovers and trainer attacks are not included except in very rare instances and usually only when they are concentrated. My argument here is that the 15 point boost falls in this "minor" camp and thus is not a significant bonus. And the reason for debating that point is because it determines whether the extra accessory slot on level 3 is too much DESPITE the fact that accessories was suggested and agreed on as a suitable replacement for Double Attack.





We are removing Double Attack and that's final. So seriously, stop bringing it up.

I could've sworn you'd agreed to this.


I did. Then Gem said this:




As for the extra accessory on Overblade level 3, I have a much better reason why it shouldn't be: Overblade 3 already gets double attack. It's already the strongest single level-up in the RP. I really don't think it needs to get even stronger. Make it level 4, and we can agree to have it slip back to 3 if we nerf double attack.



I was responding to Gem saying that Overblades have Double Attack, since I thought he changed his mind on that. The accessories was suggested to be a replacement for Double Attack at equal level in order to keep the power level a bit less to what it was before but still keeping the power level somewhat the same as before.




It's all Renny this and Renny that with you, huh?

This affects everyone else taking levels in Slayer too, y'know? Which so far is you, Geminex, and me. And maybe Bard too.

We do need to balance this stuff. And after we've balanced it, if you don't want to be so Rage-reliant, don't take a Rage-reliant class.


Coming from you who expressively declared that your motive in suggesting a change was to spite a particular person, that statement is insulting to the nth degree. All I asked was "why or why not that particular change" and barring that to wait until AB posted his demon classes so we have an idea what direction would bring the classes closer to balance with Demons. Neither you or Gem proposed an example of why an extra accessory slot at level 3 was just as bad or worse than Double Attack. The same is true as to why it was opted to remove the first use of accessories.

Once again, I ask. Why is level 3 such a bad place to put it? For that matter... For that matter, what does level 3 consist of now aside from a small stat boost and a type immunity? I don't seem to recall anyone proposing anything to replace Double Attack OR the accessories which you guys want to bump up. If level 3 actually had something great, then fantastic, I would be willing to bypass the fourth accessory. But part of the issue why I'm doing all this protesting is that all you guys are suggesting now are nerfs. No reason given why and nothing proposed to replace them. There seems to be an empty void where Double Attack and Accessories was in that level.





No no, this would affect anyone. If any of us wanted a fourth accessory, we'd have to take Overblade 4. That's period.

Seriously, stop making this about you.

I was making it about you, of course, but Geminex isn't.


You BOTH were making about me or my choice of classes. Yours was more obvious. But Gem's can be seen here.

Waitwaitwait.
He wouldn't get the accessory slot, obviously! Just as he wouldn't be able to use both a pokebrid action and a trainer action in the same turn. He'd get to come up with new accessories, and he'd get to select 3 trainer actions and one pokebrid action, but he'd only be able to use the benefits of one of those every turn, obviously (otherwise he'd be getting more power because he invests in a larger variety of classes, and that'd be imbalanced, since for everyone to have equal strength, everyone else would have to go "variety" as well). And for Slayer, that translates into removing the accessory slot. That is acceptable, I hope?

That is explictively targetting people who multi-class despite the fact that multi-classing means that the growth to higher power is slower and the maximum height is never reached to begin with! Multi-classing has its own advantage and disadvantages and Gem is seemingly listing disadvantages that aren't actually there! Renny is supposably going to be the character with the most level of slayer, according to what you guys are saying about how many levels of demon you hope to take. So why is the one level of pokebrid such a damning factor? So much that you opt that the upgrade that was proposed to be a suitable replacement for Double Attack should be denied to the person who intend to invest the most in the class in the first place on the very basis of too much variety? The fact that the pokebrid is effectively being played like a sub-level of Slayer due to the proposed using boosted pokemon moves as Slayer attacks seemed to have gone amiss too.


ALSO

What if, instead of losing the third accessory slot... hmm, gotta figure out how to word this one properly:

If Menarker uses an accessory, he can no longer use a Trainer Action or Pokebrid Action that turn. And if he uses a Trainer Action or Pokebrid Action, he can't use accessories that turn. That way, he can still use multiple accessories, so long as he has the Rage.

And of course, he could only use one Trainer Action or one Pokebrid Action at a time, like you said.

What does an item slot have to do with actions at all, especially since you're intending to also remove the first free use of the accessory? Not being able to use pokebrid action and trainer action at the same time makes sense. But carrying capacity is not the same as trying to multi-task.

So basically, what you did was belittle me and then propose the same thing I was in agreement with before you said it! I agreed that accessories, pokebrid actions and trainer actions should be seperate, and that it shouldn't be a bearing on how many accessories a character can hold.


BTW: An easier way to phrase what you said is

"Choose one of the following abilities each turn: Trainer Action, Pokebrid Action, or Slayer Accessories. The user can use one of that respective ability at the exclusion of the other two during that turn. Multiple accessories can be used in the same turn if sufficient rage is present.



Nerfing can be balancing.

So I think your argument should be that this nerf does not contribute to balancing.

>_> Exactly. One would say you're using "balancing" as a weapon instead of actually balancing.

Before all this arguments started, we had discussions about what were overpowered or not powered enough, and for every item that was in debate, there was a solid example and some reasons why or why not. Nowadays though, things are not being explained why something should be altered and that almost everything is on a "because I said so" basis.

Now, in Gem's case, let's use the recent example of him wanting to keep Paradigm Shift as is. Yes, that bites me in the butt adding a rage problem to a rage-reliant class but he gave the valid reasons that it wouldn't be crucial to those specializing in Pokebrids because they wouldn't need paradigm shift to use them for Sync Techs. That was agreeable and I can understand and work with that.

But now we come back to the entire accessory thing. No reasons given. Despite you guys saying it would effect every slayer, it really at the moment only would effect me because you guys stated you don't intend to go that far in Slayer anyhow in favor of going demon. Impact for Full Demon (6+ levels) and Pierce with multiple levels in demon AND breeder AND slayer. It could effect Charlotte and maybe Dante, but is them getting accessories earlier bad? Compound that with "triple-classing is bad" (Suspciously specific argument) or "I don't like Menarker getting a fourth accessory" (Not even hiding it!) and the result is that I don't feel like you guys are actually acting in good faith with balancing at the moment. You guys did before and that was great for everyone with a lot less arguments, but not lately...


BTW, didn't anyone consider that some of the nerfs you guys are proposing is going too far now that AB nerfed Medics? Since infinate rage rockets and stuff like Full Restores is no longer possible, some of the reasons for the nerfs like too much rage is not really valid anymore.



How about this, everyone customizes their own classes, but they're still classes and they have to be heavily based on the current upgrades.

Because I like the idea of us having separate classes with badass names for each one and each combination.

"Heavily based" doesn't have to be all that restrictive. People can still come up with any upgrades they want for a class, or move around some of the existing ones. Like a Breeder could get a custom move or an Xth-level pokemon one or two levels sooner than they would, but it has to be balanced with the rest of their upgrades. Or a Slayer could get their RPDA sooner, or halve the cost of accessories. Or a Pokebrid could get Paradigm Shifts that last for one turn and cost 20 RPs.

This is sounding VERY GOOD right about now, just so there isn't that nonsense about specific upgrades being proposed at arbitary levels and how it would effect other players too while still enabling character freedom, more or less. I would vote in favor of this.




Since we agree that characters should only get one extra action (i.e. the action that their primary class gets them), that should translate to Slayer as well, obviously. And there the "active" bonus is getting an extra accessory slot. So we remove that. It's logical, even if the extra slot isn't all that active.
Unless you have a better idea? And no, Menarker, "JUST LEAVE IT AS IT IS" is not a valid suggestion.



Why are you saying Primary class again? I already explained why that is a no-no. I thought we agreed that it's basically we choose one respective action that we gained access to regardless of how many levels of our class we got.




But I'm very much asking again we put further "nerfs or buffs" on hold until we see demon templates and proposed accessories.




EDIT: Welp, lots of posts sprang up as I was writing, and some of them actually explaining things like I hoped.


Here is Valiant Rush btw. Edited its power a slight because by the time Renny gets it, Slayer weapons will be 130 power. I forgot about that factor when I made the move. Everything else is the same. The reason why I didn't put it in my bio is because Renny doesn't have the move yet. Was just proposing it in advance.

Valiant Rush
Description: Renny goes into a passionate frenzy when his allies and friends are in danger and personally enters the fray, inflicting damage on any targets of his choice with multiple blows that foes find difficult to endure.
Cost: 20 RP per hit. For every ally in Renny's team below 33% hitpoints and thus "in the red" or knocked out (or for every trainer down to 2 or less pokemons including 0), reduce the cost by 20. For each of Renny's pokemons knocked out, reduce the cost by 10. It's possible for the technique to be free if the reduced cost is more than the cost he pays for.
Effect: For every payment of 20 rage, Renny does an unmissing critical hit that bypasses effects like Protect and Endure using Almighty element (Able to hit any target equally regardless of type) to a target of choice. Thus he can choose to focus each individual hit on one target or divide the hits among any number of foes. The power of each blow is equal to 130 power after taking the doubled power due to crit in account. This move can only be used once every three turns regardless of how much rage he used or how many or few hits he done.

[Dracorion]

>_> I said additive. Did you read what I said properly? Who am I kidding? Of course you didn't. Firstly, Mollesk's defense is based on a preexisting pokemon, as opposed to the slayers whose stats are difficult to measure (especially compounded if I go Pokebrid which have modified stats of their own). Secondly, Cosmic Power and Simple are Multiplicative. They actually have relatively easily measurable boosts because it's easy to say something is twice as powerful or twice as weak as normal. Saying something is 15 points higher is... not as easy to imagine.
AB, as far as I know, doesn't use math or formulas a whole lot when dealing with combat resolution, but rather a lot of guesstimating the overall effect. Things like Twice as much, Half as Much, or *applying a specific effect* actually tends to be included in his synopsis, especially because it is easier to grasp. Things that are "minor" and "hard to add up mentally" like leftovers and trainer attacks are not included except in very rare instances and usually only when they are concentrated. My argument here is that the 15 point boost falls in this "minor" camp and thus is not a significant bonus. And the reason for debating that point is because it determines whether the extra accessory slot on level 3 is too much DESPITE the fact that accessories was suggested and agreed on as a suitable replacement for Double Attack.

Yeah, sorry. I missed one word.

Anyway, AB said way back when (like, sometime before we hit Discussion thread 10, I think), that Slayers had 100 in every stat. Pokebrid stats were Pokemon Form stats + Slayer stats / 2.

Anyway, Slayers get 600 total stat points. Going all the way to Overblade 3 gives you 25 stat points in every stat, bringing their total to 750. Just so you know.

Still, AB, can you confirm what I said above about Slayer and Pokebrid stats?

Menarker, you're right that AB estimates all the damage. However, I'm fairly certain he takes all the factors (at least the ones he can remember) into account, so those extra 25 points would make a difference.

And I wouldn't lump them in with Trainer Attacks or Leftovers. At the very least, I would put those 25 points in the lower end of "moderate".

Yes, something regarding accessories was suggested as a replacement for Double Attack. I like how you don't specifically say what about accessories, though. I mean, which is it? The reduced cost, or the extra slots?

Also, I think you underestimate the value of immunity to a stat.

I was responding to Gem saying that Overblades have Double Attack, since I thought he changed his mind on that. The accessories was suggested to be a replacement for Double Attack at equal level in order to keep the power level a bit less to what it was before but still keeping the power level somewhat the same as before.

That's bullshit. You said this:

You're stacking way too many nerfs at the same time and they are adding up to be something I feel is drastically unfair since you also intend to remove Double Attack which is a source of rage gathering. Oh, and also moving to maintain Paradigm shift as it is, thus Renny is FURTHER having rage problems by being unable to gain rage when attacking for 3 turns as opposed to only not being able to gain rage on the turn he uses it.

Let's see, you want to remove Double Attack. You want to have Renny have 4th accessory slot at level 4 not have 4th accessory slot PERIOD for some obscure reason related to my triple classing although saying that other people who take slayer levels can. Remove the free use of accessory. Hampered Paradigm Shift which compounds rage problems. And what do you say I'm getting for it? A token drop in rage for accessories?

And you were responding to Geminex, which means you didn't think he was saying Overblades have Double Attack.

Coming from you who expressively declared that your motive in suggesting a change was to spite a particular person, that statement is insulting to the nth degree. All I asked was "why or why not that particular change" and barring that to wait until AB posted his demon classes so we have an idea what direction would bring the classes closer to balance with Demons. Neither you or Gem proposed an example of why an extra accessory slot at level 3 was just as bad or worse than Double Attack. The same is true as to why it was opted to remove the first use of accessories.

Well, I was actually against Gem's idea to remove the first free use of accessories.

What kind of example do you want? You want us to tell you "we think getting a fourth accessory at level 3 is overpowered when you add in everything else they get at that level"? Because that's the best we can do. There is no in-RP example we could give as to why it would be unbalanced.

Also, no one said it was just as bad or worse than Double Attack. I see it as being "almost as bad as Double Attack but not quite, yet it still deserves a nerf".

We looked at the level 3 upgrades and thought "hm, I don't think we should put a fourth accessory in that upgrade", and you thought otherwise. The reason is that you're undermining the value of the other two bonuses gained in that upgrade.

Once again, I ask. Why is level 3 such a bad place to put it? For that matter... For that matter, what does level 3 consist of now aside from a small stat boost and a type immunity? I don't seem to recall anyone proposing anything to replace Double Attack OR the accessories which you guys want to bump up. If level 3 actually had something great, then fantastic. But part of the issue why I'm doing all this protesting is that all you guys are suggesting now are nerfs. No reason given why and nothing proposed to replace them.

You don't have to replace every upgrade you take out! At least, not in the same spot. We are keeping the fourth accessory slot, just putting it someplace else.

Hell, compare it to Tuners, who get all of one bonus for their level 1 upgrade, and their level 3 ain't all that great either. Even with just a type immunity and a stat boost, you're still beating them.

That is explictively targetting people who multi-class despite the fact that multi-classing means that the growth to higher power is slower and the maximum height is never reached to begin with! Multi-classing has its own advantage and disadvantages and Gem is seemingly listing disadvantages that aren't actually there! Renny is supposably going to be the character with the most level of slayer, according to what you guys are saying about how many levels of demon you hope to take. So why is the one level of pokebrid such a damning factor? So much that you opt that the upgrade that was proposed to be a suitable replacement for Double Attack should be denied to the person who intend to invest the most in the class in the first place on the very basis of too much variety? The fact that the pokebrid is effectively being played like a sub-level of Slayer due to the proposed using boosted pokemon moves as Slayer attacks seemed to have gone amiss too.

Thought you were okay with Renny only getting one Pokebrid Action OR Trainer Action per turn?

"One level of Pokebrid" is such a damning factor because you're getting access to a whole new class. You're getting access to their entire movepool and Paradigm Shifting. Not to mention this blends in well with the Overblade 3 type immunity upgrade, because you could choose a Pokebrid form that has a quad weakness and make yourself immune to that type.

And then? You can throw on some Slayer armor and turn three of your 2x weaknesses into neutral!

Provided you take a form with at most four weaknesses, you could make yourself weaknessless like a Ghost/Dark type without actually having to be that type.

So basically, what you did was belittle me and then propose the same thing I was in agreement with before you said it! I agreed that accessories, pokebrid actions and trainer actions should be seperate, and that it shouldn't be a bearing on how many accessories a character can hold.

Technically I belittled you on your response to removing the first free use of accessories.

"Choose one of the following abilities each turn: Trainer Action, Pokebrid Action, or Slayer Accessories. The user can use one of that respective ability at the exclusion of the other two during that turn. Multiple accessories can be used in the same turn if sufficient rage is present.

Cool, thanks.

>_> Exactly. One would say you're using "balancing" as a weapon instead of actually balancing.

That "one" is specifically you, and "one" could say you're hardly unbiased.

Now we come back to the entire accessory thing. No reasons given. Despite you guys saying it would effect every slayer, it really at the moment only would effect me because you guys stated you don't intend to go that far in Slayer anyhow in favor of going demon. Impact for Full Demon (6+ levels) and Pierce with multiple levels in demon AND breeder AND slayer. It could effect Charlotte and maybe Dante, but is them getting accessories earlier bad? Compound that with "triple-classing is bad" (Suspciously specific argument) or "I don't like Menarker getting a fourth accessory" (Not even hiding it!) and the result is that I don't feel like you guys are actually acting in good faith with balancing at the moment. You guys did before, but not lately.

I didn't say triple-classing was bad, and I don't think Geminex said it either.

The comment of Geminex you're referring to when you say that was simply him stating the obvious by saying that anyone shouldn't be able to use Trainer Actions and Pokebrid Actions at the same time.

Also, the "reduced Rage cost + third extra accessory slot" upgrade would come at Slayer level 4 or 5, I think, so it the Rage cost bit would at least affect Geminex.

Not to mention, if we do make it so that accessories don't get that first free use, it would be standard (IE: start at level 2), and it would certainly affect all of us.

The fourth accessory thing? Yeah, that would probably only affect you. However, just because we're not getting that upgrade doesn't mean we shouldn't get to balance it.

BTW, didn't anyone consider that some of the nerfs you guys are proposing is going too far now that AB nerfed Medics? Since infinate rage rockets is no longer possible, some of the reasons for the nerfs like too much rage is not really valid anymore.

Did anyone really say "too much Rage"?

I mean hell, if anything, the suggestion I made to Geminex to replace his suggestion to remove the first free use of accessories was taking into account the fact that Medics can't use Rage Rockets anymore.

But I'm very much asking again we put further "nerfs or buffs" on hold until we see demon templates and proposed accessories.

Sure, why not.

[Menarker]

Yes, something regarding accessories was suggested as a replacement for Double Attack. I like how you don't specifically say what about accessories, though. I mean, which is it? The reduced cost, or the extra slots?


When I suggested accessories as a replacement for Double Attack, I suggested reducing costs since that would allow for the double attack one to be accessible without that concern of jumping Overblade's rage generation, while also opening more customization with other accessories.



Also, I think you underestimate the value of immunity to a stat.



Actually, I felt that one was one of the better upgrades. But that didn't seem worthwhile by itself, when you take in consideration that I didn't think the stats was a worthwhile upgrade.




That's bullshit. You said this:

*Insert Quote*

And you were responding to Geminex, which means you didn't think he was saying Overblades have Double Attack.



If you look back some posts, I was referring to Post #82 where Gem was saying that accessories should be at level 4 because Double Attack was there. Then I responded saying I was fine with that change, since hell, he was the one saying it and Double Attack is cool! It was afterwards around Post #90 when he changed his mind AND added other nerfs to it.


"One level of Pokebrid" is such a damning factor because you're getting access to a whole new class. You're getting access to their entire movepool and Paradigm Shifting. Not to mention this blends in well with the Overblade 3 type immunity upgrade, because you could choose a Pokebrid form that has a quad weakness and make yourself immune to that type.



Paradigm Shift isn't quite as useful as it might seem with forced rage lock out from attacking for three rounds (which is almost an entire battle). Since we're losing Medic AND because Renny has primarily support techniques, it is one of the upgrades that I would end up never using unless it was changed so it only lasted for the turn it was activated.


The comment of Geminex you're referring to when you say that was simply him stating the obvious by saying that anyone shouldn't be able to use Trainer Actions and Pokebrid Actions at the same time.


I was fine with that, but then his explaination was that too much variety was a bad thing and that triple classing made it worse and THAT was why he opted to put 4th upgrade higher on the scale. If that wasn't what he meant, then he explained very poorly indeed.


Did anyone really say "too much Rage"?


Someone did say "too much rage generation". =P

I'm saying that any of the nerfs that may have been motivated by people having too much rage generation might be a little excessive that our fastest and easiest way of getting rage is gone.


Anyhow, a good deal of these arguments will fall on the wayside if we do have customized classes. *After waiting to see what the templates and accessories are*

[Astral Harmony]

Okay, here's what I'm suggesting:

- Plan Accessory: Currently, I have it set up (in my Powers By Level document) so that Overblade Level 3 gains a 4th Accessory Slot, not Double Attack. Accessories (like Stamina Rush which grants Double Attack for one turn) cost 30 Rage to use and this includes initial use and this applies to Slayers since level 2 when they can first equip accessories.

- Plan Rage Drop: Or, Double Attack would generate Rage for one of the attacks. For an Overblade just hitting level 3, that's 15 Rage generated for the whole shebangabang. Overblades maxing out at level 5 would gain 20 Rage for it.

- Plan Only 3 Accessories: Overblade level 2 is severely lacking in value. So I could move 3rd Accessory Equip there, get rid of 4th Accessory Equip altogether, then...I dunno, use Overblade level 3 to reduce Rage required to use accessories.

I want to do Plan Only 3 Accessories and then put something else into it. I want to make it cost a free action to "charge" accessories so that they can be used the next turn.

It's pretty hard to find the balance with all the Balance Wars between Menarker, Dracorian, and Geminex. I know they mean well (Gem and Men, anyways) but it's difficult to keep up with all myself.

Still, AB, can you confirm what I said above about Slayer and Pokebrid stats?

Pokebrid stats are more like this:

Pokemon's stats / 2 + Slayer's stats / 2.

Slayer stats are balanced across the board, but Impact wants it changed and I agree. However, I'd rather leave individual stat growths to demon upgrades if I could.