Real Westerns

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I'm a huge fan of Westerns and I have been since I was pretty young but there is something about them these days that really irks me. Hollywood doesn't make them anymore. Not properly and not with the respect that they deserve. Jonah Hex, while a comic book adaptation, should have been a proper Western but instead we got a short piece of trash with no respect for the genre.

What the hell happened? There was a time that they cranked out a shit load of Westerns every year and they just gave up. We're lucky if we get one half decent one a year. The only movies that I can think of that have been the last real Westerns are "Unforgiven," "The Propostition," and "Appaloosa." Movies like "3:10 to Yuma" (the remake) are half decent action movies but they're not proper Westerns.

Is the disappearance of one of the most significant genres in American film just a result of the times changing or creative sterility when it comes to making an engaging Western?

Whatever the cause is, I hope they fix it soon because I can only watch so many Clint Eastwood's and John Wayne's before I start trying to eat my face. Any opinions on the decline of Westerns?

[RobinStarwing]

I'm a huge fan of Westerns and I have been since I was pretty young but there is something about them these days that really irks me. Hollywood doesn't make them anymore. Not properly and not with the respect that they deserve. Jonah Hex, while a comic book adaptation, should have been a proper Western but instead we got a short piece of trash with no respect for the genre.

What the hell happened? There was a time that they cranked out a shit load of Westerns every year and they just gave up. We're lucky if we get one half decent one a year. The only movies that I can think of that have been the last real Westerns are "Unforgiven," "The Propostition," and "Appaloosa." Movies like "3:10 to Yuma" (the remake) are half decent action movies but they're not proper Westerns.

Is the disappearance of one of the most significant genres in American film just a result of the times changing or creative sterility when it comes to making an engaging Western?

Whatever the cause is, I hope they fix it soon because I can only watch so many Clint Eastwood's and John Wayne's before I start trying to eat my face. Any opinions on the decline of Westerns?

Hollywood is just lazy. Hell, they got the Coen Brothers remaking True Grit. It's like good war movies. The last one I saw that was half decent in recent memory was "Three Kings".

[Yumil]

Would you consider this a Western:o? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-TGaGa3QAc)

I only ask because one of the better known westerns, The Magnificent Seven, has quite a bit of Japanese influence as it was adapted from Seven Samurai. So, I don't see Japanese influence as a huge detraction from it(seeing as though it's an all Japanese cast...minus Tarentino...speaking English).

[RickZarber]

Also see A Fistful of Dollars, a direct remake of Yojimbo, which began the Western anti-hero genre. But Kurusawa was in turn heavily influenced by American Westerns, so it's kind of cyclical.

And I'd consider Sukiyaki Western Django more along the lines of an action movie with a Western setting (like the 3:10 to Yuma remake) more than a straight Western. Then again, we've already seen how the genre changed from the Wayne-esque Westerns to Eastwood-inspired anti-heroes. So maybe this high-action version is simply the modern iteration of Westerns.

And so perhaps that would mean the answer to Gunslinger's question would be "sign of changing times". I guess then we'd have to dig at the Why.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm a big fan of acid westerns but they don't even really make those any more. Not since Dead Man have we had a proper one

[Magus]

Jonah Hex was a poorly made comic movie that didn't even follow the original elements of the comic (Hex never talked to any dead people, for example), so using it against the Western genre in recent times doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. While an element of unrealisticness in Westerns is nothing new (it's not like The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly didn't have its share of anchronisms and general craziness), I thought they went a bit too far with mounting two gatling guns on a horse, frankly.

I think it's more that the examples you cited as being good are almost the only Westerns to have been made in recent years. The genre isn't as popular as it used to be. I'm hard pressed to think of a recent Western besides the four you mentioned, except maybe a few lower-key/budget productions not particularly worthy of citation (I saw one recently that had zombies in it, so I thought someone had finally gotten around to doing what I was trying to write a short story about, but luckily it was a fairly poorly made comedy movie, so maybe I can still churn a short story out before someone does a serious take on zombie-outbreak-in-the-old-west).

Besides which, I thought the remake of "3:10 to Yuma" wasn't as good as the original, just because I thought the irony of the ending of the original was a better capstone to the whole mess. Obviously the new one had a much higher dose of tragedy to it, though. Also the original "3:10 to Yuma"'s DVD has a really hilarious cover that makes it look like a light-hearted comedy along the lines of "Paint Your Wagon!" which probably makes people overlook it, so a remake revealing it as serious was a good move.

I saw "Sukiyaki Western Django" as more of a steampunkish sci-fi than an actual Western, like a live-action anime with Western elements, what with the one villain using a katana and a gun, having piercings, etc. The anachronism of Japanese actors using old-west pistols just kind of made it seem like it was in some kind of post-apocalyptic setting or something.

EDIT: As a side-note, the original short story of "3:10 to Yuma" was only about ten pages long and started out at the hotel so the movie is probably the biggest example of extrapolation from a novel I can think of, barring Coppola actually going ahead and writing the Godfather sequels, I suppose.

[Azisien]

Would you consider this a Western:o? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-TGaGa3QAc)

I only ask because one of the better known westerns, The Magnificent Seven, has quite a bit of Japanese influence as it was adapted from Seven Samurai. So, I don't see Japanese influence as a huge detraction from it(seeing as though it's an all Japanese cast...minus Tarentino...speaking English).

I had a hunch this movie would end up in here. Just so everybody knows, it's fucking awful. Not worth your time awful.

[Magus]

Eh, it had its moments, some of the acting/jokes weren't great, though.

[Nique]

I considered 'Back to the Future part III' to be a pretty good Western. That might just speak to how unfamiliar with the genre I am though.

[Magus]

Dunno, it had an attempted lynching scene, Indians, and a nefarious villain, I think it was an ode to earlier westerns but probably just because it was comedic and not serious. By those standards Wagons East and Almost Hereos are also great westerns!

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Dunno, it had an attempted lynching scene, Indians, and a nefarious villain, I think it was an ode to earlier westerns but probably just because it was comedic and not serious. By those standards Wagons East and Almost Hereos are also great westerns!

Couldn't decide between "don't you ever say that again" and "shut your filthy whore's mouth" so I guess you get both now.

[Magus]

I hope you aren't going to hate on my love of "Blazing Saddles", "Support Your Local Sheriff/Gunfighter", etc. as well.

Anyway, I'd like to interject the following: the only good John Wayne western is The Shootist, because frankly I can't stand the guy in most of his movies.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I hope you aren't going to hate on my love of "Blazing Saddles", "Support Your Local Sheriff/Gunfighter", etc. as well.

Anyway, I'd like to interject the following: the only good John Wayne western is The Shootist, because frankly I can't stand the guy in most of his movies.

Those are comedies with a Western setting. Also awesome.

And John Wayne isn't for everyone but lord know's I love his movies in spite of their flaws.

[DarkDrgon]

Anyway, I'd like to interject the following: the only good John Wayne western is The Shootist, because frankly I can't stand the guy in most of his movies.

I love the guy, and love that I can get 40 of his movies for 25 bucks.

[Yumil]

I saw "Sukiyaki Western Django" as more of a steampunkish sci-fi than an actual Western, like a live-action anime with Western elements, what with the one villain using a katana and a gun, having piercings, etc. The anachronism of Japanese actors using old-west pistols just kind of made it seem like it was in some kind of post-apocalyptic setting or something.

Well, he was trying to "prequel" Django. The thing is, it was a weird choice making the cast speak English. I can understand it with the setting and all(Nevada), but the original Django was Italian and the actors didn't speak any English(in fact, the dub is god awful...in fact that may be why he made them speak english...lol, I never thought about that). There are a lot of throwbacks to it, like the Gatling gun in the coffin and what not>.<

I will say this, it is much like a spaghetti western(what Django was) in that it was more focused on the action. However, it's still a lot like the old bandit vs townspeople and a gunman movies of the days. It's definitely Takashi Miike, but I wouldn't say it doesn't do the genre proud.

Anachronisms aren't too out of place in Westerns, so the swords don't really bother me.

[Magus]

But there are ways to do it without cheating and making it sci-fi, like Red Sun with Toshiro Mifune and Charles Bronson, that was a good one, or something horrible like, Shanghai Noon (can anyone explain to me why Shanghai Knights was made? Neither cowboys nor kung-fu masters have shit-all to do with Great Britain, and the pun is more of a pun on the first movie's title than an actual title, since the first is like "Shang-High Noon" whereas the second is like "Shanghai Now it's Night Time instead of Noon but like it's Knight because it's in Great Britain").

[Premmy]

B
Shanghai Noon (can anyone explain to me why Shanghai Knights was made? Neither cowboys nor kung-fu masters have shit-all to do with Great Britain, and the pun is more of a pun on the first movie's title than an actual title, since the first is like "Shang-High Noon" whereas the second is like "Shanghai Now it's Night Time instead of Noon but like it's Knight because it's in Great Britain").
That's called a Two-part pun, and it's First-rate

[Magus]

Except the High part of Shanghai now has nothing to do with it, leaving Shanghai as simply a reference to Jackie Chan, whereas Owen Wilson now has nothing to do with the title because it's no longer cowboy themed. And he's a cowboy in Britain fighting with a martial artist to stop a noble killing the queen of England. The concept makes no sense! It's just crazy!