Pokemon Umbral Theatre 2: Devoted to That She-Devil, Charlotte Beaufort

[Astral Harmony]

Forgot we hit over a hundred post. My last search in gelbooru turned up some pictures which remind me of Bard's character, Charlotte Beaufort.

First off, check this babe. Reminds me what I envision Charlotte as, right down to the claw-like fingernails.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral58.jpg

And this is without a doubt Charlotte's Houndoom, Sol-leks.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral73.jpg

Anyways, I don't have anymore information to post, so I'm just going to post two more images. Funny ones. You don't mind, right?

First up, I had to save this image. You can blame Bard's avatar for this one.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral76.png

And this image makes me feel what Satoshi (Ash) would ever feel if he came to Honmyr.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral84.jpg

That is all. Carry on with your abuseful bickering.

[Dracorion]

Makes you wonder, what if it was naked female pokemon? Would Ash get a stiffy then?

[Astral Harmony]

If Ash can't put 'em in a pokeball, I doubt he'd give a shit.

[Geminex]

Gem, if you really want to be being part of the "balancing process", you should be reading the entire thing, not skimming it and only reading sections.
Read balancing discussions? Yes. Probably. See below for further details.
But read 2 pages' worth of semi-relevant (at best) bickering and insults which MAY OR MAY NOT contain anything of actual interest?
Fuck that and the horse it rode in on.


I was responding to Gem saying that Overblades have Double Attack, since I thought he changed his mind on that.
Nnnoooo, I just wasn't aware that anyone had agreed with me for once. Fuck Double Attack.

That is explictively targetting people who multi-class despite the fact that multi-classing means that the growth to higher power is slower and the maximum height is never reached to begin with! Multi-classing has its own advantage and disadvantages and Gem is seemingly listing disadvantages that aren't actually there! Renny is supposably going to be the character with the most level of slayer, according to what you guys are saying about how many levels of demon you hope to take. So why is the one level of pokebrid such a damning factor? So much that you opt that the upgrade that was proposed to be a suitable replacement for Double Attack should be denied to the person who intend to invest the most in the class in the first place on the very basis of too much variety? The fact that the pokebrid is effectively being played like a sub-level of Slayer due to the proposed using boosted pokemon moves as Slayer attacks seemed to have gone amiss too.
Sure it has its advantages. Growth is slower, yes. But there's nobody saying "YOU CAN'T PUT 10 LEVELS INTO ONCE CLASS AND SPREAD THE OTHERS EVENLY ACROSS TRAINER, SLAYER AND POKEBRID". Cause that's what you could do. Bam, maximum height. And you get way more variety for it. And I'm not saying that all multi-classers must now BUUUURN IN THE FIRES OF THE NETHERWORLD (though it's got a good ring to it, I need to remember that...). I'm saying that this particular situation makes multi-classers stronger than they should be.
Look, when you multi-class, you don't suddenly get extra stats. You can't suddenly carry extra items. You don't gather extra rage. You get extra actions sometimes, but those are exceptions. Why should you get extra actions now?


>_> I said additive. Did you read what I said properly? Who am I kidding? Of course you didn't. Firstly, Mollesk's defense is based on a preexisting pokemon, as opposed to the slayers whose stats are difficult to measure (especially compounded if I go Pokebrid which have modified stats of their own). Secondly, Cosmic Power and Simple are Multiplicative. They actually have relatively easily measurable boosts because it's easy to say something is twice as powerful or twice as weak as normal. Saying something is 15 points higher is... not as easy to imagine.
AB, as far as I know, doesn't use math or formulas a whole lot when dealing with combat resolution, but rather a lot of guesstimating the overall effect. Things like Twice as much, Half as Much, or *applying a specific effect* actually tends to be included in his synopsis, especially because it is easier to grasp. Things that are "minor" and "hard to add up mentally" like leftovers and trainer attacks are not included except in very rare instances and usually only when they are concentrated. My argument here is that the 15 point boost falls in this "minor" camp and thus is not a significant bonus. And the reason for debating that point is because it determines whether the extra accessory slot on level 3 is too much DESPITE the fact that accessories was suggested and agreed on as a suitable replacement for Double Attack.

That point is moot. You say you think AB disregards that sort of thing, I disagree. +15 to all stats is a pretty massive boost, honestly. Saying that AB disregards that is like saying that he'd see a pokemon with 100 in all stats as equal in power to one with 115. Sounds kinda stupid, honestly. Sure, he guesstimates, it's not exact. But the higher the stats, the more likely his "guesstimate" is to give a result in your favor. Unless you say he ignores it, it's definitely relevant. And if you think he ignores it utterly then you should be putting HEY AB STOP IGNORING +15 STATS BOOSTS in orange and posting it every chance you get.

There seems to be an empty void where Double Attack and Accessories was in that level.
+15 to all stats. That is a lot, even if you'd prefer us to believe that that isn't the case. And hell, nobody ever said there wouldn't be a replacement, we're just saying that this isn't the right one. I've even suggested one. Like, that orange bit in my previous post? The one where I talk about making accessories cheaper now and then buffing them later? Yeah. That was, y'know, supposed to be the buff.
Also, what the fuck? "No reason given why"? I'd adivse that you read my posts more carefully. It doesn't make sense for multi-classing to give extra power, only more variety (except, like I said, in certain exceptions). This is not one such exception. So take the variety, stop whining about the power.
Cause right now you're playing the victim, and you're anything but.

This is sounding VERY GOOD right about now, just so there isn't that nonsense about specific upgrades being proposed at arbitary levels and how it would effect other players too while still enabling character freedom, more or less. I would vote in favor of this.

Look, I explained this already. Conditions:
1: Based on existing abilities and classes (no inventing new classes, try to re-use old abilities if you can, but don't be afraid to come up with new abilities if nothing's been proposed yet that suits you)
2: Characters must be roughly equal in power throughout their development

Other than that, total freedom.
Seriously, everything you people are agreeing to is stuff I already said. Is that it? Does everything I propose need 1-2 threads to actually sink in (5 in AB's case) before someone goes "Hey, this is actually a good idea!"?

Why are you saying Primary class again? I already explained why that is a no-no. I thought we agreed that it's basically we choose one respective action that we gained access to regardless of how many levels of our class we got.
Yes, that's what I said. Or what I meant, in any case.
You get one action as trainer. You use that action to use trainer actions. Later you can also use it to use Pokebrid actions. But you aren't actually getting any extra actions. Since accessory slots take the place of the trainer/pokebrid action, you shouldn't get an extra accessory slot either.

Also, stop whining about paradigm shift giving you rage problems. You don't want rage problems, you don't put a single level into a rage-specific class.
YOU DO NOT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, START MODIFYING THE UPGRADE SYSTEM TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS.

If you look back some posts, I was referring to Post #82 where Gem was saying that accessories should be at level 4 because Double Attack was there. Then I responded saying I was fine with that change, since hell, he was the one saying it and Double Attack is cool! It was afterwards around Post #90 when he changed his mind AND added other nerfs to it.
Ok. This. Fucking. Stops. Now.
When we reach the point where we are quoting posts BY NUMBER, we have gone too far. Like, seriously. Way, way too far. Everyone. Take a step back. Consider. What the fuck are we doing here?
I like discussions. But they don't always have to be so fucking LONG!
Seriously, it's possible to say what you want to say in 25 words or less! I guarantee! Just try it!
Honestly, Menarker you tell me I should read everything that's written if I really want to participate in balancing, and then you go on to write a great big long post that nobody could reasonably expect anyone else to read through totally. Seriously.
I know this may be a pot-kettle-black situation, but even then. Let's all just try to write less. And be less officious about this sort of thing. And maybe even start taking it less seriously.

I was fine with that, but then his explaination was that too much variety was a bad thing and that triple classing made it worse and THAT was why he opted to put 4th upgrade higher on the scale. If that wasn't what he meant, then he explained very poorly indeed.
Or, y'know, you just misunderstood me. Cause that wasn't what I meant at all. Look, I explained it again in my previous post. Look it up.

It's pretty hard to find the balance with all the Balance Wars between Menarker, Dracorian, and Geminex. I know they mean well (Gem and Men, anyways) but it's difficult to keep up with all myself.

So end them. I've suggested it before, you haven't actually replied that vehemently to it.
Let us customize everything from level 5 onwards. We base what we do on the templates you've made. We'll be able to do what we want with our characters, I'll take care of the balancing, and by the time we're done, we'll be better for it. It'll be easier than balancing the upgrade system. And more fun, certainly. Come on.

[Dracorion]

Yeah, we probably should forget all about it and just customize our advanced classes. I'm on board.

Anyway, question about Menarker's Valiant Rush:

Okay, you probably (definitely) intended otherwise, but the way I'm understanding it you would only be able to do up to five hits with Valiant Rush. Or seven, if you get 150 RPs from Gaea's second Wind. Hell, maybe twelve if you can pay from from that Slayer accessory that gathers Rage (I forget the name), and take the time to charge it up.

Because, the way I see it, it would only allow you to do as many hits as you can pay with the amount of Rage you currently have, regardless of how much Rage will get deducted when you take into account the downed allies. The Rage deduction would then get tacked on.

So... did I get it right?

[Menarker]

No, it could go higher if there are people in critical or knocked out condition. The rage deduction comes before the payment.

A) Let's say there was no Second Wind, no Rage Tank. Let's say Renny had 60 rage.
If everyone was perfectly healthy, Renny could only pay for up to 3 attacks. Frankly, Renny can do better with his rage as a support dude.


B) If we assume the above example but alter it so three NPCs were in critical condition or knocked out, then he could either attack 3 times for free (no rage spent but he'd be unable to use it for three turns regardless of how much rage he built up), or he could attack up to 6 times, spending the required 20 rage for each one beyond 3.



C) In the VERY WORST situation for the group, but the best situation for Valiant Rush:
1) Where Renny has no items to revive anyone with and thus doesn't spend the rage on something better like Prosperous Gifts. (Or if a boss is charging up an attack where it would nuke the entire arena in an instant gameover ala Sin from Final Fantasy 10, the bastard)
2) Where there is a full party set-up with no slot empty.
3) Renny has 250 rage from Rage Tank (100), Second Wind (50) and his normal rage gauge filled up (100). (This pretty much means that Renny would have to not spent rage the entire battle for attacking or supporting, and thus this example would never happen anyhow.)
4) Impact and his enforcer is knocked out (40 rage), Pierce and his enforcer is knocked out (40 rage), Charlotte and her enforcer knocked out (40 rage), Dante and his enforcer knocked out (40 rage), Renny's enforcer and all his pokemons knocked out (80 rage), Shock Trooper knocked out (20 rage), Medic knocked out (20 rage), Engineer knocked out (20 rage), and Sniper knocked out (20). (Destroyers can't be damaged)

Basically, under the circumstances where Renny is utterly charged up to the maximum and everyone else in the group has their face buried in the dirt, Renny's pokemon included. (With the exception of the destroyer)

Under those IMPOSSIBLE circumstances, which should really for all purpose be a TPK and is never to happen statistically unless AB deliberately wanted to showcase Renny (which I would find completely tacky and crude at the very least), then Renny could attack a WHOPPING 32 times! 12 from actual rage spent (10 rage left over) and the rest coming from deductions. Every 20 rage being an attack. Mind you, it would be out of character since Renny would not have horded that much rage if he could have used the rage he could get to use Serene Blessing or so to protect the party from getting to that point.

Keep in mind, this is 130 Power Almighty typed after crit. It is powerful in big numbers, but individually, even normal pokemons do consistantly more damage if they use STAB and even more so with Super Effective hits. A fire type using a fire move with 100 power would have 150 power right there due to STAB, which would become 300 power if it hit something super effective or 600 power for the rare quad effective foes like Scizor.

EDIT: Anyhow, I'm writing my customized class as I speak, although I'm still waiting for AB to post the templates for demon as well as the accessories.

[Dracorion]

That's...

Yeah.

Anyway, my customized class is really one level of Breeder so y'know, not much to do there.

[Astral Harmony]

Do as you will. I've got duty today and, if time is merciful, I'll hopefully get a lot of stuff done (post, demon upgrades, even some of the sprite comic) and ready to post as soon as I get home Wednesday afternoon.

[Menarker]

Hehe, since Demons are already a custom class and we're just waiting for AB to set the standard.

I changed a few things on my custom class, but keeping mostly to what the upgrades sheet says.

One thing I did include though was "Conditional Upgrades".

Basically upgrades that we agree would only be granted upon fulfilling certain requirements. Like the entire Shock Trooper effect (Battle Masters fighting alongside their pokemon) we agreed would require around at level 4 levels of slayer and 4 levels of trainer or something like that.

Heck, I might as well post those ones here...

Conditional Upgrades

1) Upon getting 1 level of Pokebrid and 1 level of Slayer, Renny gains Intergrated Combat Training.

Intergrated Combat Training enables pokebrid moves to be used in place of Slayer weapons for all attacks, whether basic attack or sweeps or even RDPAs. The moves are pumped up to have the same power that Slayer Weapons have. The few moves that have stronger base power keep their original power level. The rules are as follows:
A) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves belonging to the respective pokebrid's type/s.
B) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This Doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.
C) Extra moves for 3 other types. Each of those types enable 3 empowered moves.
D) All other element types only get 1 empowered attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen.
E) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.
F) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)


2) Upon getting 4 levels of Slayer and 4 levels of Trainer, Renny gains Shock Trooper classification.

Shock Trooper classification allows Renny to fight alongside his pokemons, with the three (2 pokemons and Renny) being able to attack on the same turn with no penalty.





Basically, they won't be granted on a specific level, but if the requirements are met, you automatically get them.

[Dracorion]

That's... really unnecessary, the conditionals.

Because you choose when you get your upgrades, all you have to do is say "Oh, I want to get this at Pokebrid level 1", and specify that you're going to get a couple of levels of Slayer first.

Also, conditonal upgrades really should be more of a proposal, rather than something you just assume you're going to get through customization. Because, see we'd only get to customize our advanced classes, that is, any class we're taking beyond level 5.

And the upgrades you're suggesting apply to classes when they're below level 5.

Basically, put it in orange.

Also, if we do let you get conditional upgrades, all the rest of your shit better be severely underpowered.

[Menarker]

Also, conditonal upgrades really should be more of a proposal, rather than something you just assume you're going to get through customization. Because, see we'd only get to customize our advanced classes, that is, any class we're taking beyond level 5.

And the upgrades you're suggesting apply to classes when they're below level 5.




So end them. I've suggested it before, you haven't actually replied that vehemently to it.
Let us customize everything from level 5 onwards. We base what we do on the templates you've made. We'll be able to do what we want with our characters, I'll take care of the balancing, and by the time we're done, we'll be better for it. It'll be easier than balancing the upgrade system. And more fun, certainly. Come on.

I'm a little confused a bit. Are we talking level 5 onwards in terms of each individual classes? (Like Drac is saying) Or level 5 as in our character levels from level 5 to 15 and we develop the abilities to fit within the power frame of the classes, using the old upgrade sheets as guidelines for "specialities". (Like I thought Gem meant) I thought we were customizing everything from 5 to 15, just not 1-4 so as not to do any retcon editing.

^^; If it helps, I got a rough draft proposal here, although I'm still waiting for AB to see about demon classes and the accessories. So it's not final. Also not listed in any particular order, although I can promise that Pokebrid is coming up next.

The only altered thing about level 1 to 4 was taking the changes that we all approved regarding Trainer Actions being 1 technique for every second level of trainer (2 and 4) as opposed to the old trainer attack at level 3.




Pokemon Trainer (Level 1)

- Four Pokemon are available.
- Leader Pokemon is available. Leader Pokemon can know six moves instead of four.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 2)

- Fifth Pokemon is available.
- Can now use Focus skill. Attack that hits two targets or a random target can now hit a single designated target. Costs 25 Rage.
- 1st Trainer Action. A low power technique which the trainer uses to support his pokemons.
-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 3)

- A 2nd Leader Pokemon is available.
- Divide skill is available. Allows a single hit attack to hit multiple foes without suffering damage loss or side/stat effect loss. Costs 25 Rage.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 4)

- Sixth Pokemon is available.
- Two Custom Hold Items are available.
- 2nd trainer action


Level 5 Onwards

-----
Pokebrid (Level 1)

- Choose one non-legendary and non-ruin type pokemon. Can use any and all moves of the chosen Pokemon form. Stats are influenced according to form.
- 1st Pokebrid Action.
- Can use Paradigm Shift (transform into that Pokemon). Lasts for turn used. Type weaknesses no longer apply and Pokemon statistics are added to inherent statistics for a stat boost during those turns. Costs 20 rage. Maximum of three use per battle.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 5)

- 1st Xth Stage/Veteran upgrade is now available. Legendary Pokemon do not evolve, but can be Veterans.
- 1st custom move availability.

-----
Pokemon Breeder (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated goes from 5 to 7.
- Pokemons cannot be snagged, dominated or otherwise be made disobedient or charmed to fight against Renny's side or in favor of the enemy or cause harm to themselves. (Successful confusion only has effect of Null Turn on them)
- 1st Ability Shift is available.
- 3rd trainer action.


Slayer (Level 1)

- Default Normal type armor. 50% damage reduction from Normal Type attacks.
- Can possess a loadout of three armor aside from the default normal type armor.
- Can switch these equipment loadouts completely in between battles, but can request them from Daphne to switch them out one-by-one.
- Intergrated Combat Training (See Conditional Upgrades in section below)

- Armor:
Reinforced Vest (Normal -50%, Always Equipped)
Pesticide Layer (Bug -50%, Evasion Debuff Immunity)
Shadow Suit (Dark -50%, Flinch Immunity)
Courage Emblem (Dragon -50%, SpDef Debuff Immunity)
Insulated Armor (Electric -50%, Paralyze Immunity)
Impact Gear (Fighting -50%, Def Debuff Immunity)
FR Suit (Fire -50%, Burn Immunity)
Windbreaker (Flying -50%, Crit Immunity)
Holy Talisman (Ghost -50%, Death Immunity)
Herbicide Layer (Grass -50%, Drain Immunity)
Jump Boots (Ground -50%, Acc Debuff Immunity)
Counter Injector (Poison -50%, Poison Immunity)
Brain Case (Psychic -50%, Confuse Immunity)
Thermal Underwear (Ice -50%, Freeze Immunity)
Sonic Guard (Rock -50%, Att Debuff Immunity)
Platemail (Steel -50%, Bleed Immunity)
Weather Cloak (Water -50%, Sleep Immunity)

-----
Slayer (Level 2)
- Armor Guardian Globe (Ruin type Defense) is available.
- Protective Guard: Renny can change his location in the formation once per turn. This change in location can include being in front of other NPCs or PCs in a manner and effect similar to Follow Me, although rage gains will go to the intended attack target regardless. If knocked out, pokemons do NOT go rogue and attack.
- Slayers can now equip one of the Accessories AB made/makes. Each use costs 30 rage.

*In progress as AB is still editing/making accessories*

-----
Slayer (Level 3)

- Sweep skill is available. Hit two side-by-side enemies with one attack. Costs 25 Rage.
- Slayer Attacks have minimal base power of 130.
- Can wear a second accessory.

-----
Slayer (Level 4)

- All Slayers also gain Armor Affinity. What this means is that if a weapon they use deals the same type of damage as a piece of armor they have equipped protects against, they get a STAB modifier. This STAB modifier is double as opposed the 1.5 used by Trainers and Snaggers. This stacks with Pokebrid STAB bonus.

- Shock Trooper classification *See Conditional Upgrades below*

-----
Slayer (Level 5)

- Slayers now have access to the Rapid Deployable Powered Armor, or RDPA. PCs and NPCs can create custom armors that possess five attack types, five defense types, and one Overdrive. Like a Paradigm Shift, but doesn't cost Rage. Lasts for three turns.

-----
Overblade (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated is increased by 1.5 times (to 15 rage for slayer attack).
- Overblades can use the Overpower skill to remove status effects. 15 Rage cost.
- Can wear a third accessory.
-----
Overblade (Level 2)

- Choose 3 stats. Those chosen stats gain 20 points.
- Overblades gain a special immunity to a physical-type status effect (Poison, Bad Poison, Paralyze, Freeze, Burn, Fire, Bleeding, Exhaustion)

-----
Overblade (Level 3)

- Choose 3 stats. Those chosen stats gain 30 points.
- Overblades gain an immunity to one of the following Pokemon types (Bug, Dark, Fighting, Flying, Grass, Ground, Normal, Rock, Steel). If Normal is selected, then a fourth armor can be worn to replace the default armor.
- Improved Mobility Armor: RDPA usage can be split multiple times, so it can be used for 3 turns worth, in segments of 1 turn. In addition, using an Overdrive on the first or second use doesn’t deplete the other usages as well.





Conditional Upgrades

1) Upon getting 1 level of Pokebrid and 1 level of Slayer, Renny gains Intergrated Combat Training.

Intergrated Combat Training enables pokebrid moves to be used in place of Slayer weapons for all attacks, whether basic attack or sweeps or even RDPAs. The moves are pumped up to have the same power that Slayer Weapons have. The few moves that have stronger base power keep their original power level. The rules are as follows:
A) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves belonging to the respective pokebrid's type/s.
B) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This Doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.
C) Extra moves for 3 other types. Each of those types enable 3 empowered moves.
D) All other element types only get 1 attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen.
E) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.
F) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)



2) Upon getting 4 levels of Slayer and 4 levels of Trainer, Renny gains Shock Trooper classification.

Shock Trooper classification allows Renny to fight alongside his pokemons, with the three (2 pokemons and Renny) being able to attack on the same turn with no penalty.






So... even though I'd still like to wait for AB to submit everything, you guys got any relevant thoughts? Mind you, I wrote this assuming that "customizing everything level 5 on" meant character level, although I kept it similar to the upgrades sheet in most respect.
And once again, this is not finalized. Although it's as close to it as it will be before I see what AB dishes out.

[Dracorion]

Overpowered.

Obscenely.

I mean, it's disgusting.

And yeah, Geminex meant that we only get to customize our classes once we get past level 5 in those classes. Not after our characters reach their fifth upgrade. Trust me dude.

Specifically? I'm against your Protective Guard, and your upgrade at Breeder level 2 that makes your pokemon immune to domination.

I'm also rather iffy at your stat boosts, and Improved Mobility Armored.

[Astral Harmony]

Raise your hand if you saw this coming a mile away, Geminex.

Admit it. Anyone with two brain cells knew what was going to result from this idea of customizing your own advanced classes. It wouldn't stop thread long arguements, only change their direction and possibly make them longer.

I'm going to go to duty now, and hopefully I can deal with the encroaching headache that will be this thread when I get home.

[Dracorion]

Hey, they haven't gotten long yet!

Give us a chance, we'll change!

[Menarker]

Regarding Upgrades in general:
And yeah, Geminex meant that we only get to customize our classes once we get past level 5 in those classes. Not after our characters reach their fifth upgrade. Trust me dude.


Well, that didn't seem right from what I read of Gem's statement. Otherwise, that means you and Gem get to edit level 2-10 of demon classes (including the early levels) as well as any later levels of other classes they could go in while anyone who is NOT that class can only edit the late levels of the class they go in. Hence why I thought Gem was thinking ahead and saying it applied to character levels.

Also, a good deal of the upgrades that Slayers normally get wouldn't apply since they relate to weapons, which my character gave up. So what I summed in was a "Follow Me" technique (useful if you're careful), the two "conditionals upgrades" and otherwise spread out the upgrades further, making getting one accessory at level 2 instead of the normal two and getting increased attack power a bit later.

Regarding Protective Guard:
1) Doesn't take rage from other people, so it won't count as a way to gain rage.
2) Doesn't reduce damage at all. It's basically damage redirection.
3) Thematic in a caring/heroic "Body as a Shield" sort of way.
4) It's similar to your Mock ability except it's an actual upgrade that wouldn't be a free action. More like an item use action or so.
Unless there is something else you're concerned about?

Regarding Domination:
1) Removed Custom Item for it.
2) Very situational as only bosses seem to have anything like domination atm and not even frequently. And even the fact of confusion is that it only prevents damage. If it would succeed, it would still be a Null Turn on the pokemon.
3) BTW, it's on Breeder 1 not 2.
4) Very thematic given how loyal the pokemons should be to Renny.

Regarding Stat Boosts:
Pokemons/pokebrids are not equally effective attackers most of the time. Usually, they got one attack strong and the other weak. Pokebrids also got lower stats than Slayers except for a select few that are higher than normal. This would help more than stats all across the board. Slayers can use all around stats because they can use all attack types and such, but not Pokebrids. Plus, I intend to use a bit of speed, which is otherwise situational.
Gem also proposed this sort of thing too and AB summed it up here.
Slayer stats are balanced across the board, but Impact wants it changed and I agree. However, I'd rather leave individual stat growths to demon upgrades if I could.


Regarding Improved Mobility RDPA:
It's not any bit more powerful in strength or defense. No additional uses either. Just a conversion in more freedom in which turns it is used, and a little boost in that Overdrive doesn't cause it to be rendered useless for the rest of the battle (as long as there are uses leftover).


So yeah, I think what I proposed is strong, but since I kept mostly to the update sheets, removed some stuff and spread the upgrades thinner in places to keep it more balanced, I thought it would be appropriate.

Anyhow, still waiting to see what the accessories are. And the demon template so we know how to scale things.

[Dracorion]

Well, that didn't seem right from what I read of Gem's statement. Otherwise, that means you and Gem get to edit level 2-10 of demon classes (including the early levels) as well as any later levels of other classes they could go in while anyone who is NOT that class can only edit the late levels of the class they go in. Hence why I thought Gem was thinking ahead and saying it applied to character levels.

Let's see.. Geminex would get to customize nine levels of Demon, which admittedly is a lot.

I'd get to customize four levels of Demon and one of Breeder, for five.

You'd get to customize three levels of Overblade and one of Breeder.

Yeah, you and me are tied. Geminex is the one that gets the most customization, which is understandable because, y'know, it's Demon class, and it's not like he'd be copy-pasting all the best upgrades from the other classes.

If Gem was thinking ahead, you really think he would put it at level 5, which is really just two steps away? At least he'd try not to be so obvious about it and put it at like level 8 or 9 or 10 or something.

Also, a good deal of the upgrades that Slayers normally get wouldn't apply since they relate to weapons, which my character gave up. So what I summed in was a "Follow Me" technique (useful if you're careful), the two "conditionals upgrades" and otherwise spread out the upgrades further, making getting one accessory at level 2 instead of the normal two and getting increased attack power a bit later.

Protective Guard is not a suitable replacement for one accessory and the Ricewood Rifle.

Regarding Protective Guard:
1) Doesn't take rage from other people, so it won't count as a way to gain rage.
2) Doesn't reduce damage at all. It's basically damage redirection.
3) Thematic in a caring/heroic "Body as a Shield" sort of way.
4) It's similar to your Mock ability except it's an actual upgrade that wouldn't be a free action. More like an item use action or so.
Unless there is something else you're concerned about?

Well let's see, my Mock ability only redirects one attack, not every attack aimed at one target.

Second, if you'll remember my proposed Magatama, I wanted Pierce to get an ability. That did pretty much this. He'd stand in front of an ally and take all the damage directed at them.

Except, y'know, it'd have a Rage cost, and presumably the ally he's protecting wouldn't get any Rage either.

See, my version is more balanced than yours. I mean really, what you're getting is a free action, since you didn't specify anything like "have to give up item use for that turn" or whatever.

Also, have we decided that you can give up Slayer weapons for powering up Pokebrid moves?

I mean, I know you proposed it, and I remember Geminex disagreed with it, and I don't remember if we even reached a conclusion. Now you're just posting it as it originally was, like nothing happened.

- Protective Guard: Renny can change his location in the formation once per turn. This change in location can include being in front of other NPCs or PCs in a manner and effect similar to Follow Me, although rage gains will go to the intended attack target regardless. If knocked out, pokemons do NOT go rogue and attack.

Also, do me a favor and clarify that bolded bit. Does that mean Renny's pokemon are permanently immune to going rogue or what?

Regarding Domination:
1) Removed Custom Item for it.
2) Very situational as only bosses seem to have anything like domination atm and not even frequently. And even the fact of confusion is that it only prevents damage. If it would succeed, it would still be a Null Turn on the pokemon.
3) BTW, it's on Breeder 1 not 2.
4) Very thematic given how loyal the pokemons should be to Renny.

Oh for God's sake.

"It's thematic" is not a main reason to justify anything! I mean yes, it holds some weight, but not much. I mean, if it actually mattered, then Pierce would be invincible because "it's thematic".

Not to mention, it's extremely easy to change your character's development so that an ability that wouldn't have been thematic before suddenly becomes so. So we can say that "it's thematic" should really not be a valid reason.

Anyway. "At the moment" does not mean that regular enemies won't be able to throw Domination and all the other effects like it around like party favors later.

I mean, for fuck's sake, Domination was only introduced like, one RP page ago! You can't possibly know if any of it is going to be widespread or not.

Custom item is not worth immunity to like two different statuses, NOT TO MENTION AN ENTIRE CLASS.

Regarding Stat Boosts:
Pokemons/pokebrids are not equally effective attackers most of the time. Usually, they got one attack strong and the other weak. Pokebrids also got lower stats than Slayers except for a select few that are higher than normal. This would help more than stats all across the board. Slayers can use all around stats because they can use all attack types and such, but not Pokebrids. Plus, I intend to use a bit of speed, which is otherwise situational.
Gem also proposed this sort of thing too and AB summed it up here.

I'm saying your stat boosts seem a little too high, maybe.

Also, I would propose that instead you get an upgrade that lets you rearrange your Slayer stats, so you don't actually have to have 100 across the board. Maybe some slightly weaker stat boosts to go with it.

So yeah, I think what I proposed is strong, but since I kept mostly to the update sheets, removed some stuff and spread the upgrades thinner in places to keep it more balanced, I thought it would be appropriate.

Look, my main problem? You're getting all this cool shit and giving up very little.

So you spread out your accessory availability, whooptie-do. You're still getting them. So you gave up a custom item, and the Ricewood Rifle.

It has to stay at relatively the same power level as the upgrades are now, man!

I mean, for God's sakes, you made yourself immune to the Snagger class!

[Menarker]

Protective Guard is not a suitable replacement for one accessory and the Ricewood Rifle.

Well let's see, my Mock ability only redirects one attack, not every attack aimed at one target.

Second, if you'll remember my proposed Magatama, I wanted Pierce to get an ability. That did pretty much this. He'd stand in front of an ally and take all the damage directed at them.

Except, y'know, it'd have a Rage cost, and presumably the ally he's protecting wouldn't get any Rage either.

See, my version is more balanced than yours. I mean really, what you're getting is a free action, since you didn't specify anything like "have to give up item use for that turn" or whatever.


Ok, I guess that's fair to say. I'll see if I can't do anything to squeeze it in as a Signature Technique later on or at least edit it a bit more. (Still got one after Serene Blessing and Valiant Rush) Just gotta think a bit.


Also, have we decided that you can give up Slayer weapons for powering up Pokebrid moves?

I mean, I know you proposed it, and I remember Geminex disagreed with it, and I don't remember if we even reached a conclusion. Now you're just posting it as it originally was, like nothing happened.



You remember wrong. He thought it was a decent and novel idea, but he thought that giving access to ALL moves was a bad idea. I then proceeded to make the above restriction that you see, but Gem being the sort who doesn't read every post to the full amount, didn't notice it.


Also, do me a favor and clarify that bolded bit. Does that mean Renny's pokemon are permanently immune to going rogue or what?


I kinda meant more like they won't go rogue and attack back. I would kinda imagine in a roleplaying situation, they would grab Renny and run for it if the entire group had to retreat. I guess I should just erase that part and think of some other way to make it fit...



Anyway. "At the moment" does not mean that regular enemies won't be able to throw Domination and all the other effects like it around like party favors later.

I mean, for fuck's sake, Domination was only introduced like, one RP page ago! You can't possibly know if any of it is going to be widespread or not.

Custom item is not worth immunity to like two different statuses, NOT TO MENTION AN ENTIRE CLASS.



I guess I can remove the entire confusion thing. But I'd still want to keep immunity from domination/snagging. It's basically "ensured loyalty" feature.

As for Snaggers, It's also not immunity to a class, but a class feature. Snaggers got more pokemons than trainers, so Renny would still have to contend with all that. The difference is that, out of all the targets that Snaggers can choose to steal from, Renny's pokemon would not be eligible.



I'm saying your stat boosts seem a little too high, maybe.

Also, I would propose that instead you get an upgrade that lets you rearrange your Slayer stats, so you don't actually have to have 100 across the board. Maybe some slightly weaker stat boosts to go with it.


That I can go for. Rearrange the stats and lower the stat boosts. Sounds good.


Look, my main problem? You're getting all this cool shit and giving up very little.

So you spread out your accessory availability, whooptie-do. You're still getting them. Same for custom item, and the Ricewood Rifle.



Eh? I'm not getting the custom item or the Ricewood Rifle. That's gone completely. As for the weapons, Renny would not have access to some of the elements the pokebrid can't attack with, so that's a bit of a limitation.


But yeah, I'll see what I can edit. I'm still waiting to see what AB says about Demon classes, but I'll take another look at what I can do.

[Dracorion]

You're getting immunity to THE class feature that makes Snaggers Snaggers.

I mean, it'd be like me giving Pierce an armor that instantly breaks Slayer weapons, or makes him immune to pokemon moves. Simply? It's a no-no.

The whole point of Snaggers is that they can steal your pokemon and fuck up your whole strategy. Sure, they can still target anyone else, but Snagging isn't a status effect you can protect against.

Also, Snaggers only GET more pokemon than Trainers if they can, y'know, SNAG 'EM.

Not to mention, your proposed Shock Trooper conditional upgrade would certainly even the odds. Or, more accurately, tip them in your favor.

[Menarker]

Level 5 Onwards
-----
Pokebrid (Level 1)

- Choose one non-legendary and non-ruin type pokemon. Can use any and all moves of the chosen Pokemon form. Stats are influenced according to form.
- 1st Pokebrid Action.
- Can use Paradigm Shift (transform into that Pokemon). Lasts for turn used. Type weaknesses no longer apply and Pokemon statistics are added to inherent statistics for a stat boost during those turns. Costs 20 rage. Maximum of three use per battle.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 5)

- 1st Xth Stage/Veteran upgrade is now available. Legendary Pokemon do not evolve, but can be Veterans.
- 1st custom move availability.

-----
Pokemon Breeder (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated goes from 5 to 7.
- Renny's Pokemon can only be snagged at a 50% chance if the pokemon is SEVERELY injured regardless of the snag ball used. (As if the snagger was level 1)
- If dominated or otherwise be made disobedient or charmed to fight against Renny's side or in favor of the enemy, they WILL NOT target Renny. In addition Renny can spend an action at 80% chance to bring them to normal.
- 1st Ability Shift is available.
- 3rd trainer action.


Slayer (Level 1)

- Default Normal type armor. 50% damage reduction from Normal Type attacks.
- Can possess a loadout of three armor aside from the default normal type armor.
- Can switch these equipment loadouts completely in between battles, but can request them from Daphne to switch them out one-by-one.
- Intergrated Combat Training (See Conditional Upgrades in section below)
- Altered Stats as a Pokebrid.

- Armor:
Reinforced Vest (Normal -50%, Always Equipped)
Pesticide Layer (Bug -50%, Evasion Debuff Immunity)
Shadow Suit (Dark -50%, Flinch Immunity)
Courage Emblem (Dragon -50%, SpDef Debuff Immunity)
Insulated Armor (Electric -50%, Paralyze Immunity)
Impact Gear (Fighting -50%, Def Debuff Immunity)
FR Suit (Fire -50%, Burn Immunity)
Windbreaker (Flying -50%, Crit Immunity)
Holy Talisman (Ghost -50%, Death Immunity)
Herbicide Layer (Grass -50%, Drain Immunity)
Jump Boots (Ground -50%, Acc Debuff Immunity)
Counter Injector (Poison -50%, Poison Immunity)
Brain Case (Psychic -50%, Confuse Immunity)
Thermal Underwear (Ice -50%, Freeze Immunity)
Sonic Guard (Rock -50%, Att Debuff Immunity)
Platemail (Steel -50%, Bleed Immunity)
Weather Cloak (Water -50%, Sleep Immunity)

-----
Slayer (Level 2)
- Armor Guardian Globe (Ruin type Defense) is available.
- Slayers can now equip one of the Accessories AB made/makes. Each use costs 30 rage.

*In progress as AB is still editing/making accessories*

-----
Slayer (Level 3)

- Sweep skill is available. Hit two side-by-side enemies with one attack. Costs 25 Rage.
- Slayer Attacks have minimal base power of 130.
- Can wear a second accessory.

-----
Slayer (Level 4)

- All Slayers also gain Armor Affinity. What this means is that if a weapon they use deals the same type of damage as a piece of armor they have equipped protects against, they get a STAB modifier. This STAB modifier is double as opposed the 1.5 used by Trainers and Snaggers. This stacks with Pokebrid STAB bonus.

- Shock Trooper classification *See Conditional Upgrades below*

-----
Slayer (Level 5)

- Slayers now have access to the Rapid Deployable Powered Armor, or RDPA. PCs and NPCs can create custom armors that possess five attack types, five defense types, and one Overdrive. Like a Paradigm Shift, but doesn't cost Rage. Lasts for three turns.

-----
Overblade (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated is increased by 1.5 times (to 15 rage for slayer attack).
- Overblades can use the Overpower skill to remove status effects. 15 Rage cost.
- Can wear a third accessory.
-----
Overblade (Level 2)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 10 points.
- Overblades gain a special immunity to a physical-type status effect (Poison, Bad Poison, Paralyze, Freeze, Burn, Fire, Bleeding, Exhaustion)

-----
Overblade (Level 3)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 15 points.
- Overblades gain an immunity to one of the following Pokemon types (Bug, Dark, Fighting, Flying, Grass, Ground, Normal, Rock, Steel). If Normal is selected, then a fourth armor can be worn to replace the default armor.
- Improved Mobility Armor: RDPA usage can be split multiple times, so it can be used for 3 turns worth, in segments of 1 turn. In addition, using an Overdrive on the first or second use doesn’t deplete the other usages as well.





Ok. I did the following edits from the last submission:
1) Removed Protective Guard entirely.
2) Heavily altered Domination/Snagger immunity to more of a resistance.
3) Edited the stats so I can edit my stats at the start, but get less total stats growth than normal slayers do.
4) Kept Improved Mobility RDPA as is.

Thoughts?


AB: How would a pokebrid who goes slayer have their stats change? Pokebrids got one formula and Slayers are all arounders who are stronger in almost every stat due to having psuedo legendary builds.

[Dracorion]

Seems more acceptable.

Now let's see what Geminex has to say.

Though, I'd suggest dropping Renny's chance to snap his pokemon out of Domination to something like 70 or 75%, or even less. Seems like you're taking advantage of AB's guesstimating.

Basically, as it is, Renny would instantly get his pokemon back from Domination. Maybe if Renny's pokemon got dominated one or two more times, THEN it'd fail.

What I'm suggesting is that you make a realistic chance that Renny's pokemon won't snap out of Domination on the first try. 20% is, I think, not realistic.

[Menarker]

What I'm starting to get curious about now is what Bard or Dante are planning for their future levels. :3

[Dracorion]

I'm curious about Bard. I remember him saying that he might not take Charlotte to Slayer, so I wonder what he'd make her. Pokebrid or Demon? Or maybe both.

As for Matthias, I think he said a while back he was considering Snagger.

[Menarker]

Except that Bard said that Charlotte doesn't trust Pokebrid OR Demon. He DID want to combine Snagger with Trainer, but with the conflict in the classes, it was a no-go...

Until now, since we're customizing our classes.

YOU HEAR THAT BARD? Now is your chance!

[Dracorion]

Heh. Suddenly I'm wishing I were taking Sophia past 5 in any class. Maybe I could shave off a level of Trainer, but I really don't want to.

I dunno, maybe I can something with her Demon levels.

Also AB, do I customize classes for Elizabeth and Sam too or just follow your pre-existing upgrades? Them being NPCs and all.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Man I stopped comprehending this long ago.

Explain to me what the verdict is again?

[Menarker]

Bard, we're making custom classes *to an extent* , AND YOU get the chance to make your trainer/snagger character like you wanted in the first place.

[Dracorion]

Apparently we're customizing each of our upgrades for every class past level 5.

Well, Menarker has some confusion about it, but he's a stinky dummyface.

[Bard The 5th LW]

K

I got an idea then.

[Geminex]

STOP.
HAMMERTIME.

Or something along those lines.

First, AB:
Come on. Your way was just as bad, there was just as much discussion. And besides, this hasn't really started yet. Lemme handle it, for now.

Secondly, all of you fuckers:
I'm glad to see you're suddenly so enthusiastic about this, but when I suggested this, my suggestion wasn't "Let's just start customizing our classes!".
It was "Let's start customizing our classes after we get a template from AB and we agree on specific restrictions. "

I'm not gonna utterly ignore what Drac and Menarker discussed, but I think, for now, it should be put on hold until we've at the very least finalized the BR.

In fact, HERE HAVE SOME BR:

1: REASONS AND GOALS
- The reasoning behind this, is that this, quite simply, isn't a competitive RP. A gain in individual power of one character over all other characters will do nothing but increase the importance of this character in battle, and prompt long, long, LOOOOONG discussions. These discussions are not enjoyable, to anyone. Hence, the best way to avoid unenjoyable-ness, and to make the RP equally enjoyable for everyone, is to make sure that characters' power remains roughly equal throughout the RP. This is the First Goal.

- In addition, the battle system we use is becoming increasingly complex. As such, it has a variety of flaws. While it's not an absolutely horrible thing to exploit these flaws, abusing the existing ruleset to a degree that changes the face of Combat As We Know It, also out. The system works, let's keep it as it is by not actively abusing the rules.

2: ACTUAL REGULATIONS
a) CHARACTER POWER
There are only three "real" constraints to an individual character's power: Firstly, that all characters have equal power, Secondly, that no character be more powerful than AB wants them to be. Thirdly, that specialization should pay off. More on that later.
As long as these three are met, we're free. To help those three be met, here's some additional constraints:

- Unless it's agreed beforehand that every character should get a pretty massive power boost, you should refrain from suggesting such boosts. "Pretty massive" is stuff like "Huge (factor of 2.5 or more) increase in rage generation", Pretty great increase in stats (Anything more than 300 in total), or large increases in offensive or defensive power. Or, y'know, something equivalent.

Mind you, that's only what I see as the "absolute upper limit". That's only the stuff you probably shouldn't suggest at all, unless, like I said, it's been agreed that everyone gets something like this. Even if what you're suggesting is considerably weaker than this, consider:

-Is anyone else likely to get a similar power boost?
-Have you correctly estimated the power of this upgrade? Even if it seems weak alone, does it synergize with any of your other upgrades, upgrades that were strong enough in their own right?
- How's your character specialized? How does your proposed upgrade change your character's specialization?
By all means, feel free to spread your risks, to specialize on different things!
But if other characters have put more time and effort into specializing in a certain area than you have, any upgrade that makes you their equal is, once again, a no-no.

b) THE SYSTEM
What counts for individual character upgrades also counts for the system in general. Consider how any change you propose in the system will affect character power and specialization. Also consider how it'll affect the way battles work. What we're doing right now seems pretty cool, and while I think it should develop, I would be loath to have it change drastically and force us to rethink basically everything. So, try to regulate that kind of change.


I'll probably add a bit on to that, to give specific examples and suchlike. Probably also give you guys a way to compare power, maybe a scale of sorts. But does this sort of make clear what I'm trying to say? And d'you think you can agree to that?

Edit:
And yeah, Geminex meant that we only get to customize our classes once we get past level 5 in those classes. Not after our characters reach their fifth upgrade. Trust me dude.
Wrong, actually. I meant that we'd get to customize once our characters went past level 5. Even if their 6th level is one in Slayer, they'd get to customize. The other way'd be sorta retarded, really. It'd whale on multi-classers, for real this time.
Would that, in your view, be a problem? I mean, more customization, less customization?

[Dracorion]

Meh, I thought you were reproposing the same thing you suggested a while back, which I understood was customizing our advanced classes.

But I'm fine with this one too.

[Menarker]

And yeah, Geminex meant that we only get to customize our classes once we get past level 5 in those classes. Not after our characters reach their fifth upgrade. Trust me dude.

Wrong, actually. I meant that we'd get to customize once our characters went past level 5. Even if their 6th level is one in Slayer, they'd get to customize. The other way'd be sorta retarded, really. It'd whale on multi-classers, for real this time.
Would that, in your view, be a problem? I mean, more customization, less customization?

Heh. Suddenly I'm wishing I were taking Sophia past 5 in any class. Maybe I could shave off a level of Trainer, but I really don't want to.

I dunno, maybe I can something with her Demon levels.

Also AB, do I customize classes for Elizabeth and Sam too or just follow your pre-existing upgrades? Them being NPCs and all.


^^ I knew I was right and not the stinky dummyface that Drac accused me of being! =P

Anyhow, I don't think Drac would argue against it, since he had wishes and particular designs that he wanted to do in class levels before 5 as I quoted above, but he misinterpreted the customization process you proposed.

Anyhow, now we all got nothing to do since all we can do is wait for AB to come back and post the templates before we can even proceed since Gem said we shouldn't continue unti then. Good Night

[Geminex]

Ok. Glad we all agree on that. Now how about the stuff that actually matters. Y'know, the stuff in red.

What objections, if any, do you have?
What suggestions, if any, do you have?
And how would you interpret these rules? Gimme a few examples, what goes, what doesn't go?

[Dracorion]

What doesn't go?

Getting an ability that makes me immune to an entire class!

Like, I dunno, making my pokemon unSnaggable. Even making them resist Snagging can be a little iffy.

[Menarker]

Now, you're just trolling me again.

You're just bitter that I was right in the first place.:knowledge:


Anyhow, Gem, in case you're wondering what the heck Drac is going on about, he's referring to my tenative and not finalized proposed customized class where one of the features was "ensured pokemon loyalty" as a Breeder 1 feature.

At first, it was immunity to be snagged and domination immunity, but it got reduced to heavy resistance to it.

It also replaced a custom item and generally impossible to exploit since it's a preventive/defensive feature that is extremely situational.

Hence why I stand by the heavy resistance. Oh and Drac is totally jerking around when he said immune to a class. He means immune to a class feature. Snaggers could still cause problems with their large numbers, since a higher level Tuner apparently has 7 or even 8 pokemons before counting pokemons they snagged (which may include other PCs or NPC's pokemons)


As for your stuff in red, I think the hard part is not whether those proposed limitations are appropriate since they look good at first glance, but arguing or debating whether a proposed ability or set of abilities actually follow those rules or not. That's usually where all the frustrations and arguments comes from.

[Geminex]

Yeah, I saw that.
But why would you describe it as "situational"? It weakens the "confusion" effect, it prevents snagging and it prevents domination. And unless we know how frequently we're gonna meet that sort of ability, we don't know how situational it really is.
Considering that Snaggers are probably gonna get more frequent (they have been rather under-represented), confusion is, if not common, then at least a possibility, and domination has just been used, I'm... uncertain. It's a defensive boost certainly, and from what I judge, more powerful than a custom hold item.
But that can wait.\

But back to DA RULEZZZ.
I asked several questions regarding them. I'd appreciate a response when I wake up tomorrow morning, cause I'll be off soon.

[Menarker]

You're looking at the old one if you're talking about confusion effect. I'll repost the new one in a sec.

EDIT: There


Pokemon Trainer (Level 1)

- Four Pokemon are available.
- Leader Pokemon is available. Leader Pokemon can know six moves instead of four.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 2)

- Fifth Pokemon is available.
- Can now use Focus skill. Attack that hits two targets or a random target can now hit a single designated target. Costs 25 Rage.
- 1st Trainer Action. A low power technique which the trainer uses to support his pokemons.
-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 3)

- A 2nd Leader Pokemon is available.
- Divide skill is available. Allows a single hit attack to hit multiple foes without suffering damage loss or side/stat effect loss. Costs 25 Rage.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 4)

- Sixth Pokemon is available.
- Two Custom Hold Items are available.
- 2nd trainer action


Level 5 Onwards
-----
Pokebrid (Level 1)

- Choose one non-legendary and non-ruin type pokemon. Can use any and all moves of the chosen Pokemon form and its pre-evolutions if any. Stats are influenced according to form.
- 1st Pokebrid Action.
- Can use Paradigm Shift (transform into that Pokemon). Lasts for turn used. Type weaknesses no longer apply and Pokemon statistics are added to inherent statistics for a stat boost during those turns. Costs 20 rage. Maximum of three use per battle.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 5)

- 1st Xth Stage/Veteran upgrade is now available. Legendary Pokemon do not evolve, but can be Veterans.
- 1st custom move availability.

-----
Pokemon Breeder (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated goes from 5 to 7.
- Renny's Pokemon can only be snagged at a 50% chance if the pokemon is SEVERELY injured regardless of the snag ball used. (As if the snagger was level 1)
- If dominated or otherwise be made disobedient or charmed to fight against Renny's side or in favor of the enemy, they WILL NOT target Renny or attack in a way that Renny will be in the crossfire such as with AOE moves. In addition Renny can spend an action at 80% chance to bring them to normal.
- 1st Ability Shift is available.
- 3rd trainer action.


Slayer (Level 1)

- Default Normal type armor. 50% damage reduction from Normal Type attacks.
- Can possess a loadout of three armor aside from the default normal type armor.
- Can switch these equipment loadouts completely in between battles, but can request them from Daphne to switch them out one-by-one.
- Intergrated Combat Training (See Conditional Upgrades in section below)
- Altered Stats as a Pokebrid.

- Armor:
Reinforced Vest (Normal -50%, Always Equipped)
Pesticide Layer (Bug -50%, Evasion Debuff Immunity)
Shadow Suit (Dark -50%, Flinch Immunity)
Courage Emblem (Dragon -50%, SpDef Debuff Immunity)
Insulated Armor (Electric -50%, Paralyze Immunity)
Impact Gear (Fighting -50%, Def Debuff Immunity)
FR Suit (Fire -50%, Burn Immunity)
Windbreaker (Flying -50%, Crit Immunity)
Holy Talisman (Ghost -50%, Death Immunity)
Herbicide Layer (Grass -50%, Drain Immunity)
Jump Boots (Ground -50%, Acc Debuff Immunity)
Counter Injector (Poison -50%, Poison Immunity)
Brain Case (Psychic -50%, Confuse Immunity)
Thermal Underwear (Ice -50%, Freeze Immunity)
Sonic Guard (Rock -50%, Att Debuff Immunity)
Platemail (Steel -50%, Bleed Immunity)
Weather Cloak (Water -50%, Sleep Immunity)

-----
Slayer (Level 2)
- Armor Guardian Globe (Ruin type Defense) is available.
- Slayers can now equip one of the Accessories AB made/makes. Each use costs 30 rage.

*In progress as AB is still editing/making accessories*

-----
Slayer (Level 3)

- Sweep skill is available. Hit two side-by-side enemies with one attack. Costs 25 Rage.
- Slayer Attacks have minimal base power of 130.
- Can wear a second accessory.

-----
Slayer (Level 4)

- All Slayers also gain Armor Affinity. What this means is that if a weapon they use deals the same type of damage as a piece of armor they have equipped protects against, they get a STAB modifier. This STAB modifier is double as opposed the 1.5 used by Trainers and Snaggers. This stacks with Pokebrid STAB bonus.

- Shock Trooper classification *See Conditional Upgrades below*

-----
Slayer (Level 5)

- Slayers now have access to the Rapid Deployable Powered Armor, or RDPA. PCs and NPCs can create custom armors that possess five attack types, five defense types, and one Overdrive. Like a Paradigm Shift, but doesn't cost Rage. Lasts for three turns.

-----
Overblade (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated is increased by 1.5 times (to 15 rage for slayer attack).
- Overblades can use the Overpower skill to remove status effects. 15 Rage cost.
- Can wear a third accessory.
-----
Overblade (Level 2)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 10 points.
- Overblades gain a special immunity to a physical-type status effect (Poison, Bad Poison, Paralyze, Freeze, Burn, Fire, Bleeding, Exhaustion)

-----
Overblade (Level 3)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 15 points.
- Overblades gain an immunity to one of the following Pokemon types (Bug, Dark, Fighting, Flying, Grass, Ground, Normal, Rock, Steel). If Normal is selected, then a fourth armor can be worn to replace the default armor.
- Improved Mobility Armor: RDPA usage can be split multiple times, so it can be used for 3 turns worth, in segments of 1 turn. In addition, using an Overdrive on the first or second use doesn’t deplete the other usages as well.





Conditional Upgrades

1) Upon getting 1 level of Pokebrid and 1 level of Slayer, Renny gains Intergrated Combat Training.

Intergrated Combat Training enables pokebrid moves to be used in place of Slayer weapons for all attacks, whether basic attack or sweeps or even RDPAs. The moves are pumped up to have the same power that Slayer Weapons have. The few moves that have stronger base power keep their original power level. The rules are as follows:
A) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves belonging to the respective pokebrid's type/s.
B) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This Doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.
C) Extra moves for 3 other types. Each of those types enable 3 empowered moves.
D) All other element types only get 1 attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen.
E) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)
F) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.


2) Upon getting 4 levels of Slayer and 4 levels of Trainer, Renny gains Shock Trooper classification.

Shock Trooper classification allows Renny to fight alongside his pokemons, with the three (2 pokemons and Renny) being able to attack on the same turn with no penalty.

[Geminex]

Ok. That's all cool. And I'll be happy to discuss that once the important stuff is done. I already have a few opinions, I'm most iffy about the Integrated Combat training (plus, I'm thinking you should just put the conditional upgrades somewhere into the earned-by-level stuff, but it looks allright.

But the important stuff is, by definition, more important. Please. I proposed this two threads ago, you could have started doing this ages ago. Waiting a bit longer, making a few more posts finalizing the BR won't kill you.

[Menarker]

I did put the conditional upgrades in their respective levels (Slayers 1 and 4 respectively). Just didn't want to clog the respective upgrades section with the fine print for Integrated Combat Training.

At least I'm happy to know you're more or less fine with what is there so far.

But like I said, it's all tenative as I'm waiting for the results of Demon templates and the accessories. Plus, I don't have any specific rules in mind regarding the rules for customization since not only do I look at things on each individual basis rather than setting rules in advance (the ones you already suggested seems to make a good basis), but I'm also the more lenient and relaxed of the three of us most of the time. :3

[Dracorion]

Eh, I don't really have anything to change about the BR. They seem okay.

[Menarker]

I decided, due to boredom, to give an example of what sort of effect Intergrated Combat Training would do.

For this example, I'm using Mamoswine and his pre-evolutions as the pokebrid form in question. Whether or not I'm actually using it or any of his types is up to you guys to guess futilely.

I'll explain all the rules regarding the moves, one by one.



A) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves belonging to the respective pokebrid's type/s.

Mamoswine is an Ice/Ground type. Thus all Ice moves and all Ground moves that don't violate the other rules get the benefit of the power boost and slayer benefits. This apply to all Ice and Ground moves, whether naturally learned or by tutoring or Breeding or TM.


B) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.

This means that all moves in addition to Ice and Ground type moves that are learned naturally by level up by Mamoswine or the evolutions below it counts towards the boost. But moves from tutoring or breeding does not count.

This means in Mamoswine's case, that in addition to Ice and Ground moves that it automatically gains, it can also learn Double Hit and Take Down which are normal type moves, Peck which is flying type, and Ancient Power which is Rock.

Note that sometimes a pokemon pre-evolution will have a move that its evolution will not have. An example would be Mudkip who learns Hydro Pump which Swampert would never learn. If the move of a pre-evolution would fit the criteria, then it qualifies for Intergrated Combat Training. (AB mentioned to me that Pokebrids can use moves of all their previous evolution stages.)

C) Extra moves for 3 other types. Each of those types enable 3 empowered moves.

This means I can choose 9 extra moves, up to 3 from 3 types. No more than 3 for any single type and no more than 3 types getting more than 1 attack.

In this case with Mamoswine, I'd choose:
Normal: Giga Impact, Facade, Body Slam
Rock: Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb
Fighting: SuperPower and Rock Smash. There is no third Fighting move in Mamoswine's movelist, so that one doesn't get filled in.

D) All other element types only get 1 attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen.

All other elements only get 1 representative move.

Thus, Mamoswine gets:

Steel: Iron Head
Dark: Bite

All other elements that Mamoswine has not been able to cover, it'll have to do without or access only via RDPA with its additional attack types to offer.

E) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)

This means that all moves with the Special Attack subtype does not count. They can still be used, but they only count as fighting as a Pokebrid.

As noticed above, I mentioned that Mamoswine gets Ancient Power for leveling up. However, since that is a special type move, it doesn't qualify anymore. Same with moves that belong to its type such as the AOE move Blizzard or the accuracy reducing Mud Bomb. It can only use physical moves like Earthquake and Ice Fang. This restriction applies whether it is breeding, TM or tutoring or level-up.

F) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.

So for all the moves that fit the criterias, they count as Slayer attacks and thus can be used with accessories like the Double Attack Accessory, using them count toward Overblade's boosted rage and so on and so forth.


Hope that example gives a good example of what is meant for Integrated Combat Training.

It also occurs to me that there should be a power reduction or even a restriction against multi-hit moves like Double Hit or Icicle Spear. (Not that I ever planned to use them in the first place, since all the moves I planned to use are single hit).

Anyhow, this blends the combat diversity that BOTH Slayer and Pokebrid (pokebrid more so) possesses while keeping power high (slayer more so). However, as a drawback, the side effects of most techniques tend to be weaker than normal slayer weapons. Most pokemon Ice moves only have a 10% chance of freezing while the Slayer's Ice weapon has a whopping 50% chance of doing so. In general, most status effects moves from pokemon moves do not work as well as slayer weapons. In addition, depending on the pokemon chosen, some elements will not ever be accessible without the RDPA.

[Dracorion]

Couple of qualms:

1) I don't remember if Pokebrids can use the moves that aren't available to their forms, but are available to the pre-evolutions to their forms. Though I notice you didn't actually list any moves available to Mamoswine's pre-evolutions, there. Still, part B) says that you would be able to use them.

2) Even though Pokebrids still have the most diversity, the fact is they have some moves that are worthless because they have access to more powerful versions of those moves. For example, Mamoswine has no reason to use Mud-Slap when it can use Mud Bomb, or Ice Fang or Powder Snow when it can use Ice Beam. Therefore, the argument "but I'm only getting a few powered-up moves out of Mamoswine's HUGE movepool" has slightly less weight when that huge movepool is reduced to the few moves that are actually, y'know, useful.

3) Though the "only moves that take Attack into account get powered-up" limitation is nice, how would you justify it ingame?

[Menarker]

1) I didn't list them in Mamoswine's case because he's a case of more or less straight out evolution (his only quirk is that he evolves when he knows a certain move). For some pokemons that evolves through evolution stones, they know different elements moves that their pre-evolution would not know.

And even some level up pokemons learn different moves. Lombre, the evolved form of Lotad learns Hydro Pump as his most powerful move, which is water type. The opposite is true with his earliest form, Lotad, which his most powerful level up moves are grass, Energy Ball. Ludicolo, the fully evolved form on the other hand, doesn't learn any new moves, just like how Pikachu doesn't learn any new moves if it evolves into Raichu too soon. (A plot point in an early anime episode against the Electric Gym leader Lt.Surge)

Also, with my Mamoswine's case, its pre-evolution could learn Amensia which Mamoswine replaces with Scary Face. AB allows me to use both of them. I just didn't include that in the example because it's a status move that couldn't care less because it doesn't have a power to boost.

Anyhow, AB said that Pokebrids could use the attacks of all their previous forms. Mind you, the key word is PREVIOUS, not ALTERNATE. A Leafeon pokebrid would be able to use any of the moves that Eevee could, but it could not use any moves that Flareon or Umbreon could use if Leafeon or Eevee couldn't learn it normally.



2) Well, that is more or less true with some moves, but some moves have different effects that could be terribly useful. Ice Fang has a chance of freezing OR flinching. Avalanche has double damage if the user gets hit first. Icy Wind lowers Speed.
Same with Ground type. Mud Shot lowers speed. Mud Bomb lowers Accuracy.
There is a bit more variety as to which effects you want to use. Normal type moves has Body Slam for paralysis, Facade for more power when afflicted with status and so on and so forth.


3) I already explained this, but I'll explain again.
The only reason why Slayers (They are mere humans if you remember) benefit from Special Attack is because they use energy weapons like Water Cannon Guns, or Ice Cannons or Electric Shock Weapons. Humans innately don't have the ability to use special attack. (People who claim to be extraordinary like true Psychics like Sabrina are the exception) It's all part of the weapon. So if Slayers lose their weapons, the only thing they can naturally use is their attack stat.

Now, take Renny. He sworn off (or will swear off) weapons in general. What possible training can Slayer teach him now? The answer? How to train his body. How to make himself stronger. How to be more durable. How to fight hands on or improvise weapons out of himself or his environment. Slayers can't teach him to do Air Slashes or teach him how to breath fire, even if Renny's Pokebrid form could allow him to do that. But the things that come out of using your own physical body... Slayer can help teach that. That is why the Attack Stat is used as the restriction.

[Dracorion]

AB allows me to use both of them.

Has AB said that Pokebrid forms have access to the moves available to their pre-evolutions?

Because I don't think he said he'd let you specifically use them either.

2) Well, that is more or less true with some moves, but some moves have different effects that could be terribly useful. Ice Fang has a chance of freezing OR flinching. Avalanche has double damage if the user gets hit first. Icy Wind lowers Speed.
Same with Ground type. Mud Shot lowers speed. Mud Bomb lowers Accuracy.
There is a bit more variety as to which effects you want to use. Normal type moves has Body Slam for paralysis, Facade for more power when afflicted with status and so on and so forth.

Could be? That's bullshit and you know it. You're never going to use Mud Shot over Mud Bomb, because the chance to inflict status effects used by pokemon moves is negligible.

3) I already explained this, but I'll explain again.
The only reason why Slayers (They are mere humans if you remember) benefit from Special Attack is because they use energy weapons like Water Cannon Guns, or Ice Cannons or Electric Shock Weapons. Humans innately don't have the ability to use special attack. (People who claim to be extraordinary like true Psychics like Sabrina are the exception) It's all part of the weapon. So if Slayers lose their weapons, the only thing they can naturally use is their attack stat.

Now, take Renny. He sworn off (or will swear off) weapons in general. What possible training can Slayer teach him now? The answer? How to train his body. How to make himself stronger. How to be more durable. How to fight hands on or improvise weapons out of himself or his environment. Slayers can't teach him to do Air Slashes or teach him how to breath fire, even if Renny's Pokebrid form could allow him to do that. But the things that come out of using your own physical body... Slayer can help teach that.

Right, thanks. That makes sense.

[Menarker]

Has AB said that Pokebrid forms have access to the moves available to their pre-evolutions?

Because I don't think he said he'd let you specifically use them either.



Guess you missed me saying that in my post above after I edited it in, since you were writing.
Yes he did. I even asked via PM. I wanted to clarify the rules regarding Pokebrid when I was pondering which classes I would branch out to.


Could be? That's bullshit and you know it. You're never going to use Mud Shot over Mud Bomb, because the chance to inflict status effects used by pokemon moves is negligible.


Guess you were writing when I edited some details above, but here is the short version of it.

Remember how I said that that the pokemon moves would be buffed to be equal to Slayer Weapon power? Mud Shot and Mud Bomb would not have a difference powerwise. I would be able to choose which effect would better suit the situation. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's speed and thus their crit rate? Cool. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's accuracy? Excellent. Otherwise, their power is the same as if it was a slayer weapon.

The reason why I said "could be" is because several moves DO have the same effect and their only difference would be attack power, such as your mentioned Ice Beam in comparision with moves like Powder Snow.

But moves with different effects would be able to come into play more effectively when their power are equal.


Glad you understand the entire Attack limitation thing.

[Dracorion]

Guess you missed me saying that in my post above after I edited it in, since you were writing.
Yes he did. I even asked via PM. I wanted to clarify the rules regarding Pokebrid when I was pondering which classes I would branch out to.

Fair enough.

Remember how I said that that the pokemon moves would be buffed to be equal to Slayer Weapon power? Mud Shot and Mud Bomb would not have a difference powerwise. I would be able to choose which effect would better suit the situation. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's speed and thus their crit rate? Cool. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's accuracy? Excellent. Otherwise, their power is the same as if it was a slayer weapon.

Like I said, bullshit.

Mud Shot and Mud Bomb was a bad example.

I dunno if there are any, but say there are two Physical moves of the same type. Both have different power and have a chance to cause different status effects.

You're telling me you'd pick the one with the least power, even if the status effect it could cause is better?

Fuck no, because like I said, the chance to cause status effects is negligible when it comes to pokemon moves. You don't take it consideration.

And when you pick your three moves of that type to power up, are you really going to pick the one with the least power over the one with more?

The reason why I said "could be" is because several moves DO have the same effect and their only difference would be attack power, such as your mentioned Ice Beam in comparision with moves like Powder Snow.

That doesn't make sense. You said:

Well, that is more or less true with some moves, but some moves have different effects that could be terribly useful.

You were referring to moves that have different effects. And saying that those effects could be useful, see above for my thoughts on that.

But moves with different effects would be able to come into play more effectively when their power are equal.

And if the power isn't equal, hmm? Which would you pick?

PS: Geminex, when you said this:

Wrong, actually. I meant that we'd get to customize once our characters went past level 5. Even if their 6th level is one in Slayer, they'd get to customize. The other way'd be sorta retarded, really. It'd whale on multi-classers, for real this time.

You meant that we'd start as soon as we reach level 5 (after this mission), or after level 5, that is, starting at level 6 (after Pierce's sidequest)?

[Menarker]

You're not getting it. Moves that qualify under Intergrated Combat Training have a power of 120 (130 when the Slayer Weapon Upgrade activates). So the difference in power between moves would not matter.

Alright, let me use another type example.

DARK

Dark is known for very weak move power normally despite most dark type pokemons having high attack power. In fact, the highest attack power for Dark is 80, unless you count Dark Plate Arceus with Judgement for 100 Power.

However, if I was to use a dark pokemon with Intergrated Combat Training... or choose Dark for a type for extra moves.

Knock Off: Knock off an item from foe.
Thief: Take the item for myself.
Punishment: Deals heavy damage to foes that have buffed themselves.
Night Slash: High Crit Ratio
Crunch: Chance to lowers Defense.
Bite: Chance to Flinch

Under the system, power would not matter so much, since it would be equal power. Only the effect that comes with the pokemon would matter, and I would not have to push certain moves that are useful on the wayside just because their power is weak.
Am I facing a buffed foe? Punishment it is! (Only a select few have it though)
Does that foe have an item I could use? YOINK! THIEF!
Is that foe using an item that is useful to it but bad if I take it like Toxic Sludge? Knock off!

Mind you, I don't think there is a pokemon that has all of those moves or close to it. And if it did, it's probably a Dark specific type that doesn't have a good type coverage for other elements.


Or how about Flying type?

Aerial Ace? Never misses!
Pluck? No berry for you!
Fly? Anyone who tried to hit me on the first turn just wasted their action!


You get what I'm saying? The only difference in power would be in regards to STAB regarding Pokebrid type and Slayer Armor and Super Effectiveness.

[Dracorion]

Hm, well, fair enough.

My bad.

Though, I hope you're not thinking you can change the moves you power up all willy-nilly.

[Menarker]

No, the moves chosen are set in stone.

[Dracorion]

Good!

Though, read up a couple of my posts back and look at that note I left for Geminex, that might affect your upgrades a bit.

Though, all you'd have to do to fix it is take Trainer 5 before Pokebrid 1.

[Menarker]

I think Gem meant starting from level 5 onwards, since he might be getting a head-start on Demon by getting demon at level 5 and thus get two demons levels at level 6.

I pretty much have my heart set on getting Pokebrid next mission, especially because I don't want to reveal what pokebrid I chosen, and I don't want to wait and risk anyone taking a level of pokebrid and randomly choosing the one I chosen.

There is also a little bit of roleplay reasons for it too a bit, stemming from the fact that Renny is not feeling that happy about his pokemon being put into danger like with Lexhur/Togekiss example or the fact that he's personally scared of being sniped or attacked directly like Regina was without any manner of protecting himself. ^^; This mission was a steep learning curve for Renny!

The Pokebrid upgrade has not changed much from its original state, so hopefully that'll be allowed to proceed.

EDIT: Just for reminder, the build I proposed is still tenative, meaning things might be edited after AB posts what he promises. I might very well get rid of Sweep for an extra armor or something like that.

[Geminex]

First: I meant we take levels 1-5 as they are, and customize everything from then on. Meaning customization starts at level 6.

And Menarker, that seems allright, sorta.
One major qualm is that you'd be getting an extremely large movepool. I know, I know, you're sacrificing the Slayer Weapon effects for that.
But still, Slayer attacks are very powerful. To compensate for that, they only get 6 of them (and even that's stronger than it should be, I think). The movepool available to you, of course, depends on the form you pick. And, really, I'm thinking that's what the strength of this change depends on. What move you pick.

Also, what's up with Armor and STAB?

Edit:
Ok. So you don't have any problems with the BR. Now. Both of you. Examples. How would you interpret them?
I know it isn't as interesting as our current discussion, but for god's sake, let's just finish that!

[Dracorion]

I already totally gave an example!

"I will not make my pokemon unSnaggable."

[Menarker]

Well, it's not like you can switch on and off your training. And as I said before, there will be elements that the form would not be able to use. Normal Slayers don't have that limitation.

Also, I'm really trying to not give away what my pokebrid form is. Giving the movelists is pretty darn close to that.


Also, what's up with Armor and STAB?


Well, Pokebrids gain 1.5 STAB (higher at later levels) from their moves if the move matches one of the form's type and Slayers at level 4 get 2.0 STAB from their attacks if its type matches one of the armors they wear.

[Geminex]

I know. And that was kind of a stupid question, cause I take it that you were envisioning that you'd get Slayer Armor in addition to your pokebrid typing?

And just tell me, which pokebrid form were you thinking of? That's what I need to know to judge.

And Drac, could you slap yourself for me?

[Dracorion]

Nope.

So Renny could get x1.5 and x2 STAB at the same time if he used an attack that matched his type and he wore the same element armor?

[Geminex]

Nooooooo. Almost certainly not, cause, see, that would go under the heading of "massive increase in attack".

[Menarker]

I'll see if I can reveal some of the moves, but not all. I still want to keep it more or less a secret.

And presumably, that proposed STAB situation would happen. It would like a Helping Hand on top of STAB for 2 types at most. But yeah, I could see that being a bit on top. But the armor bonus for Slayer is more than the one from Pokebrid.

[Astral Harmony]

Ugh...I worked on those demon upgrades for like, three hours last night and they look like complete garbage to me.

Man, I've been melancholy all day today. I dunno what it is.

If you're going to customize all your ranks, then I'm not going to bother trying to create a balanced template. That's just adding more fuel to a fire that's already burning a little too hotly in my opinion, and as of this afternoon, I'm pretty much burned out. Maybe I'm just tired.

Remember what you want those Magatama to do, right? Then hopefully you can do better than me on it. I think the main problem is I was trying to juggle three demons at the same time (Impact, Pierce, and Sophie) and attempting to maintain some kind of balance despite the difference in requests. Having other templates to base the upgrades on didn't help me any.

Additionally, I think that it's best that any upgrades you have in mind be withheld until the very rank that you want the upgrade on. That way we're not creating one confusing mess of hurl that even I don't want to go anywhere near and we can deal with balancing issues rank by rank by rank.

Honestly, I don't mind the arguements. Some of the time, just like Krylo, I find them downright amusing. But even the funniest things in life should be exercised in moderation, yes? Besides, you may decide that you want to change a certain upgrade to something else, and so long as that upgrade hasn't come around yet, you have plenty of time to change it to your liking.

A Pokesoldier, whether they were originally a Pokebrid or Slayer before the dual classing, still goes by this simple formula:

Pokemon's Stats/2 + Slayer's Stats/2

You can customize your NPCs like PCs, Drac. They just won't have the permanent place in a DSS like the actual PCs do.

I wouldn't worry so much about the issue regarding rendering Pokemon unable to be Dominated and Snagged, since both are actually kinda rare cases. To my knowledge so far, there are four characters who practice Domination:

1.) Impact, when he becomes a demon,
2.) Moera, the only one who has done it yet,
3.) Marionata. She's the Psychic Ruin General. It wouldn't make sense if she couldn't, and-
4.) Gardenoir, who I think is getting more and more dangerous with each passing day.

Snaggers aren't the most common enemies, and chances are that there'll be other foes like them so they won't be the only concern Renny will have when it comes to his Pokemon. I'm going to surprise you with them in a very cruel way, so I'm withholding intel on them for now.

So hang onto your ideas for future upgrades. You may want to change them in order to cope with future challenges.

By the way, here in Guam, a new product that they're selling has me floored. Over in Thailand, they have a branch for Pringles (y'know, the chips in the cardboard tubes) and I'm guessing it was only recently that they started selling one of the best-tasting snacks I've ever had. Pringles Pocky. Well, that's what I call it. I guess the official name is Pringles Baked Wheat Stix. It's basically like Pocky, except instead of chocolate or strawberry coatings, these sticks wield the deadly trio of honey, butter, and sugar. All I can is...dayumn.

[Geminex]

Look, AB, let me do the preliminary shit. We'll put stuff in orange if we need you to read it, but I don't want this to result in extra work for you. Let me smooth things out, I'll write up the template (because I think it'd help a lot more than it'd do harm) and PM it to you for approval. You don't need to go through this stuff.

And I know the feeling. I always listen to this.
http://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/walls-covered-in-blood
Though mind you, if naked girls don't help, that might be futile as well... :(

[Astral Harmony]

Still, we should make even the preliminary shift as easy and smooth as possible, right? So I figure we should handle balancing one rank at a time instead of having people try to come up with no less than ten ranks worth of original upgrades.

Let's be reasonable, here. Would you want that kind of paperwork? Five players, yourself included, each throwing out ten ranks of upgrades, then it falling into the hands of...oh, four of us to find a balance that the templates I worked so hard on couldn't?

I appreciate what you're doing. I'm just saying "don't work harder than you have to, even if you feel motivated to do so". Because I'm physically unable to support you in other ways like massaging your shoulders or giving you a footrub or fixing you some homemade buttermilk buscuits, creepiness factor be damned.

[Menarker]

Ok... To elaborate on moves a bit for Intergrated Combat Training.

2 moves from one of its type.

6 moves from another of its type. (Two of them are practically effectless)

6 moves from level up that are not the same as the above.

8 moves from the 3 types with extra moves.

8 other moves: 1 each from their respective element.

Does not have access to 4 elements (Ruin being one of them)

[Geminex]

I appreciate what you're doing. I'm just saying "don't work harder than you have to, even if you feel motivated to do so". Because I'm physically unable to support you in other ways like massaging your shoulders or giving you a footrub or fixing you some homemade buttermilk buscuits, creepiness factor be damned.

I'm currently trying to do what I asked your permission for in that last conversation we had.
And I'm succeeding. Sorta.

Balancing this is kid's stuff, compared to that.

I guess you're right, though. We should balance it one level at a time (though since our abilities are gonna synergize like hell, and what we get today depends on what we're allowed to get tomorrow, so we should keep an eye out for the future).

Ok...
Menarker, no offense, but I really think that anything that gives you access to more than 8 elements is too much, unless you sacrifice more than one level for it.

And did you actually write that you meant for STAB to stack? That is... not good.

And well, the goal is that in three weeks' time I'll have finished all the negotiations and all the balancing. That's why I may be doing a bit more that is necessary now, and, admittedly, neglecting the actual RP thread.

[Menarker]

Well, I can't think of what to do with the two different STAB bonuses. Unless you wouldn't mind that the STAB bonus converts into a bonus of a different kind like extra large crit chance or extra effects on moves that I would get STAB on. So basically, damage bonus would max out at 2.0 but extra bonuses of a different type would apply to STAB moves (or maybe just the ones with double STAB)

As for upgrades, I would be willing to give up Sweep for sure. Dunno what much else, although looking at it, I'd be willing to cut down "extra moves" due to 2 moves each instead of 3 moves each. That would take two more moves off.

Anyhow, I'm not planning on getting Breeder 1 for some time, so I guess I can put the upgrades for that specific level on the side since AB says Domination and Snagging is not going to be a very present threat.

[Geminex]

No, I'm saying I don't think that pokebrid STAB should apply in any way at all. The ability to paradigm shift, plus your Integrated Combat Training seem sufficient. I mean, yes, level 1 pokebrids usually get STAB, but we're just basing our upgrades on what already exists. And what's paramount is to keep equality, more than remaining true to the template.

And right now, I think what you're getting is already sufficient for "equality" to remain.

[Menarker]

Maybe make it so Pokebrid stat counts like Slayer STAB but not stack or anything at all?

Like if the pokemon has 2 types, then someone with the standard 4 armors has 6 types for STAB? But wearing armor the same type as the pokemon won't do anything unless they REALLY need that protection from that type.

Example being Ghost type wearing Ghost armor or Dragon type with Dragon Armor because otherwise, Ghost hitting Ghost or Dragon against Dragon would be bad.

[Geminex]

Yeah, that's might work. Or at least I think it might. If you're saying that, say, our Mamoswine pokebrid, wearing Fighting, Grass and Rock armor would have 2x STAB for Fighting, Grass, Rock and Normal moves and 1.5x STAB for Ground and Ice, yeah.

Though like I said... I think we're going beyond what you should get for one level. All the stuff you want, I think it'd work if you spread it across two... But I don't see it all fitting in one, unless you make this your "superpowered" level, and I had a feeling you wanted to save that for his Shock Trooper training.

[Dracorion]

I think you should all just be glad that Elizabeth isn't any kind of psychic, so she can't get Domination.

[Menarker]

Yeah, that's might work. Or at least I think it might. If you're saying that, say, our Mamoswine pokebrid, wearing Fighting, Grass and Rock armor would have 2x STAB for Fighting, Grass, Rock and Normal moves and 1.5x STAB for Ground and Ice, yeah.


Not quite. Using your example, the Mamoswine pokebrid wearing those same armor gets 2x STAB as well as 2.0 STAB for Ground and Ice. Lot less potential confusion and mixup.


Anyhow, I'm editing my proposed set-up a bit. Spreading things out a bit hopefully, although that level 1 slayer would still be the same, since armor, it's fighting ability, and the altered stats as a pokebrid can't really be seperated.

EDIT: Maybe it'd help a bit if I moved the Shock Trooper thing a level later? I know it's on the same level as the RDPA, but that means the strength gain comes a level later.


EDIT: Posting my thing here so i don't keep switching back and forth.



Pokemon Trainer (Level 1)

- Four Pokemon are available.
- Leader Pokemon is available. Leader Pokemon can know six moves instead of four.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 2)

- Fifth Pokemon is available.
- Can now use Focus skill. Attack that hits two targets or a random target can now hit a single designated target. Costs 25 Rage.
- 1st Trainer Action. A low power technique which the trainer uses to support his pokemons.
-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 3)

- A 2nd Leader Pokemon is available.
- Divide skill is available. Allows a single hit attack to hit multiple foes without suffering damage loss or side/stat effect loss. Costs 25 Rage.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 4)

- Sixth Pokemon is available.
- Two Custom Hold Items are available.
- 2nd trainer action


Level 5 Onwards
-----
Pokebrid (Level 1)

- Choose one non-legendary and non-ruin type pokemon. Can use any and all moves of the chosen Pokemon form and its pre-evolutions if any. Stats are influenced according to form.
- 1st Pokebrid Action.
- Can use Paradigm Shift (transform into that Pokemon). Lasts for turn used. Type weaknesses no longer apply and Pokemon statistics are added to inherent statistics for a stat boost during those turns. Costs 20 rage. Maximum of three use per battle.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 5)

- 1st Xth Stage/Veteran upgrade is now available. Legendary Pokemon do not evolve, but can be Veterans.
- 1st custom move availability.

-----
Pokemon Breeder (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated goes from 5 to 7.
- 1st Ability Shift is available.
- 3rd trainer action.
*Still thinking of what ability goes here*

- Renny's Pokemon can only be snagged at a 50% chance if the pokemon is SEVERELY injured regardless of the snag ball used. (As if the snagger was level 1)
- If dominated or otherwise be made disobedient or charmed to fight against Renny's side or in favor of the enemy, they WILL NOT target Renny or attack in a way that Renny will be in the crossfire such as with AOE moves. In addition Renny can spend an action at 80% chance to bring them to normal.



Slayer (Level 1)

- Default Normal type armor. 50% damage reduction from Normal Type attacks.
- Can possess a loadout of three armor aside from the default normal type armor.
- Can switch these equipment loadouts completely in between battles, but can request them from Daphne to switch them out one-by-one.
- Intergrated Combat Training (See Conditional Upgrades in section below)
- Altered Stats as a Pokebrid.

- Armor:
Reinforced Vest (Normal -50%, Always Equipped)
Pesticide Layer (Bug -50%, Evasion Debuff Immunity)
Shadow Suit (Dark -50%, Flinch Immunity)
Courage Emblem (Dragon -50%, SpDef Debuff Immunity)
Insulated Armor (Electric -50%, Paralyze Immunity)
Impact Gear (Fighting -50%, Def Debuff Immunity)
FR Suit (Fire -50%, Burn Immunity)
Windbreaker (Flying -50%, Crit Immunity)
Holy Talisman (Ghost -50%, Death Immunity)
Herbicide Layer (Grass -50%, Drain Immunity)
Jump Boots (Ground -50%, Acc Debuff Immunity)
Counter Injector (Poison -50%, Poison Immunity)
Brain Case (Psychic -50%, Confuse Immunity)
Thermal Underwear (Ice -50%, Freeze Immunity)
Sonic Guard (Rock -50%, Att Debuff Immunity)
Platemail (Steel -50%, Bleed Immunity)
Weather Cloak (Water -50%, Sleep Immunity)

-----
Slayer (Level 2)
- Armor Guardian Globe (Ruin type Defense) is available.
- Slayers can now equip one of the Accessories AB made/makes. Each use costs 30 rage.

*In progress as AB is still editing/making accessories*

-----
Slayer (Level 3)

- Slayer Attacks have minimal base power of 130.
- Can wear a second accessory.

-----
Slayer (Level 4)

- All Slayers also gain Armor Affinity. What this means is that if a weapon they use deals the same type of damage as a piece of armor they have equipped protects against, they get a STAB modifier. This STAB modifier is double as opposed the 1.5 used by Trainers and Snaggers.
- Pokebrid STAB also becomes 2.0 but does not stack with armor.


-----
Slayer (Level 5)

- Slayers now have access to the Rapid Deployable Powered Armor, or RDPA. PCs and NPCs can create custom armors that possess five attack types, five defense types, and one Overdrive. Like a Paradigm Shift, but doesn't cost Rage. Lasts for three turns.
- Shock Trooper classification *See Conditional Upgrades below*
-----
Overblade (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated is increased by 1.5 times (to 15 rage for slayer attack).
- Overblades can use the Overpower skill to remove status effects. 15 Rage cost.
- Can wear a third accessory.
-----
Overblade (Level 2)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 10 points.
- Overblades gain a special immunity to a physical-type status effect (Poison, Bad Poison, Paralyze, Freeze, Burn, Fire, Bleeding, Exhaustion)

-----
Overblade (Level 3)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 15 points.
- Overblades gain an immunity to one of the following Pokemon types (Bug, Dark, Fighting, Flying, Grass, Ground, Normal, Rock, Steel). If Normal is selected, then a fourth armor can be worn to replace the default armor.
- Improved Mobility Armor: RDPA usage can be split multiple times, so it can be used for 3 turns worth, in segments of 1 turn. In addition, using an Overdrive on the first or second use doesn’t deplete the other usages as well.





Conditional Upgrades

1) Upon getting 1 level of Pokebrid and 1 level of Slayer, Renny gains Intergrated Combat Training.

Intergrated Combat Training enables pokebrid moves to be used in place of Slayer weapons for all attacks, whether basic attack or sweeps or even RDPAs. The moves are pumped up to have the same power that Slayer Weapons have. The few moves that have stronger base power keep their original power level. The rules are as follows:
A) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves belonging to the respective pokebrid's type/s.
B) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This Doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.
C) Extra moves for 3 other types. Each of those types enable 2 empowered moves.
D) All other element types only get 1 attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen.
E) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)
F) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.


2) Upon getting 4 levels of Slayer and 4 levels of Trainer, Renny gains Shock Trooper classification.

Shock Trooper classification allows Renny to fight alongside his pokemons, with the three (2 pokemons and Renny) being able to attack on the same turn with no penalty.




AB: Not to try to be any sort of pest, but do you have any suggestions for what you would find permissible for new accessories? If you don't already have some made up already?

[Geminex]

Level 5 Onwards
-----
Pokebrid (Level 1)

- Choose one non-legendary and non-ruin type pokemon. Can use any and all moves of the chosen Pokemon form and its pre-evolutions if any.
- Stats are(Chosen pokemon's stats+Slayer Stats)/2
- 1st Pokebrid Action.
- Can use Paradigm Shift (transform into that Pokemon). Lasts for 3 turns. Type weaknesses no longer apply and Pokemon statistics are added to inherent statistics for a stat boost during those turns. (I really don't think paradigm shift should be changed. 60 rage for three turns is fine, considering that we've already modified sync-techs). No I don't care about you not getting any rage for 3 turns, don't get pokebrid if you don't think it'll help you. Choose a different class. Don't modify the system.
- Character generates 10 rage per attack (or when getting attacked)
- Can deploy self and one pokemon, or two pokemon.
Gets 1.5 times STAB for attacks

And honestly, I'm really not sure about this. You're getting way more versatility, plus a pretty good rage boost. More attack as well, arguably. Though no sync-tech.
-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 5)

- 1st Xth Stage/Veteran upgrade is now available. Legendary Pokemon do not evolve, but can be Veterans.
- 1st custom move availability. (Strength of custom move?)

-----
Pokemon Breeder (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated (by pokemon attacks) goes from 5 to 7.
- 1st Ability Shift is available.
- 3rd trainer action.
*Still thinking of what ability goes here*

- Renny's Pokemon can only be snagged at a 50% chance if the pokemon is SEVERELY injured (At 1/4 of standard HP, say? I don't think we should go lower) regardless of the snag ball used. (As if the snagger was level 1)
- If dominated or otherwise be made disobedient or charmed to fight against Renny's side or in favor of the enemy, they WILL NOT target Renny or attack in a way that Renny will be in the crossfire such as with AOE moves. In addition Renny can spend an action at 80% chance to bring them to normal.

Again, this is fine, I guess. But it's at the upper limit, and that's the second level to be so. Then again, that depends on the power of ability shift. What will that do, exactly? Did we agree on something? I don't think we did. What were you envisioning?


Slayer (Level 1)

- Default Normal type armor. 50% damage reduction from Normal Type attacks.
- Can possess a loadout of three armor aside from the default normal type armor.
- Can switch these equipment loadouts completely in between battles, but can request them from Daphne to switch them out one-by-one.
- Intergrated Combat Training
Here I have my problem. Combat training is sort of acceptable, I guess, it's certainly creative, and I like the thought in itself...
But Slayers have as much attack power as they do, because they have a limited variety of attacks to use it with. You're sacrificing Slayer weapons altogether, but that still doesn't make up for that much. Plus, your system's complicated. So let's just make it a bit more Slayer-like. Simple and stupid" You choose 3 elements. Renny can use all attacks of those elements at Slayer Power (100, at this level). He can switch elements as if he were switching weapons.


- Armor:
Reinforced Vest (Normal -50%, Always Equipped)
Pesticide Layer (Bug -50%, Evasion Debuff Immunity)
Shadow Suit (Dark -50%, Flinch Immunity)
Courage Emblem (Dragon -50%, SpDef Debuff Immunity)
Insulated Armor (Electric -50%, Paralyze Immunity)
Impact Gear (Fighting -50%, Def Debuff Immunity)
FR Suit (Fire -50%, Burn Immunity)
Windbreaker (Flying -50%, Crit Immunity)
Holy Talisman (Ghost -50%, Death Immunity)
Herbicide Layer (Grass -50%, Drain Immunity)
Jump Boots (Ground -50%, Acc Debuff Immunity)
Counter Injector (Poison -50%, Poison Immunity)
Brain Case (Psychic -50%, Confuse Immunity)
Thermal Underwear (Ice -50%, Freeze Immunity)
Sonic Guard (Rock -50%, Att Debuff Immunity)
Platemail (Steel -50%, Bleed Immunity)
Weather Cloak (Water -50%, Sleep Immunity)

-----
Slayer (Level 2)
- Armor Guardian Globe (Ruin type Defense) is available.
- Slayers can now equip one of the Accessories AB made/makes. Each use costs 30 rage. Wait, 30 rage? When was that finalized? Did AB actually accept my suggestion?

-----
Slayer (Level 3)

- Slayer Attacks have minimal base power of 130.
- Can wear a second accessory.
- ICT lets Renny choose up to 6 elements.

-----
Slayer (Level 4)

- All Slayers also gain Armor Affinity. What this means is that if a weapon they use deals the same type of damage as a piece of armor they have equipped protects against, they get a STAB modifier. This STAB modifier is double as opposed the 1.5 used by Trainers and Snaggers.
- I'm reluctant, but very well. 2.0 STAB for brids as well.


-----
Slayer (Level 5)

- Slayers now have access to the Rapid Deployable Powered Armor, or RDPA. PCs and NPCs can create custom armors that possess five attack types, five defense types, and one Overdrive. Like a Paradigm Shift, but doesn't cost Rage. Lasts for three turns.
- Can wear a third accessory.

-----
Overblade (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated is increased by 1.5 times (to 15 rage for slayer attack).
- Overblades can use the Overpower skill to remove status effects. 15 Rage cost.
- Shock Trooper Classification, letting Renny deploy both two pokemon, and himself

-----
Overblade (Level 2)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 10 points.
- Overblades gain a special immunity to a physical-type status effect (Poison, Bad Poison, Paralyze, Freeze, Burn, Fire, Bleeding, Exhaustion)

-----
Overblade (Level 3)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 15 points.
- Overblades gain an immunity to one of the following Pokemon types (Bug, Dark, Fighting, Flying, Grass, Ground, Normal, Rock, Steel). If Normal is selected, then a fourth armor can be worn to replace the default armor.
- Improved Mobility Armor: RDPA usage can be split multiple times, so it can be used for 3 turns worth, in segments of 1 turn. In addition, using an Overdrive on the first or second use doesn’t deplete the other usages as well.

I put my modifications and comments in red.

Okay, here we go. This is pretty much it. I moved some stuff around a little, and put shock trooper classification a little later. Also nerfed ICT, but I think that was necessary. I was torn whether to make it 3/6 or 4/8, I decided on the former. Depending on what type of pokemon you choose for your shift, the latter might be acceptable. I don't know.

Also, I think Paradigm shift is fine as it is. There's really no reason to change it, I think.

Also also, were you at all intending for Renny to get custom accessories? I assumed you were and just hadn't mentioned them.

[Menarker]

Making my comments by levels.


Pokebrid 1) ...Fine. It seems out of place that once Paradigm shift is activated, it couldn't be turned off to save energy.

BTW, just in case you weren't reading up the entire past discussions, it was decided that I could rearrange my stats a bit, just like your earlier request to AB saying that Slayers should be able to customize their stats a bit. The total stats allocated would still be equal to the formula AB posted. Basically going to rearrange it so Special Attack is the dump stat, but not pumping one or two stats skyhigh, but rather bringing up the lower stats so it's closer to the standards of a Slayer. Going to be tricky since even with the arranged stats combining slayer and the pokemon form, Renny is only going to be 5 point stronger than Charlotte's Arcanine, the strongest non-psuedo legendary pokemon in our group. (The pokemon form in question for pokebrid is not exactly top tier in terms of base stats.)

Trainer 5) It's that scapegoat move for Umbreon I've been planning for ages. It's basically an improved version of Pierce's Trainer Action "Mock" technique.

Breeder 1) Well, there hadn't been a real concensus regarding Ability Shift. I'm basically just assuming that I choose any new ability for any new pokemon and it replaced the old one and it was set in stone, although you had this idea of a pool of abilities and Drac allowing multiple abilities like Merc Pokemon do. (One of the few times where my idea was weaker than either yours or Drac)

Slayer 1) Nerfing ICT like that REALLY upsets me and I will not take it as you put it now. Moving on for now so I don't fill up with rant. However, it should probably be reminded that AB said Slayer weapons started at 120, not 100.

One thing that occurred to me. Slayers have an innate 6 item carrying capacity. I don't know why the upgrade sheet never mentions that. I don't know if Pokebrids have that too. (I think AB might have said that). But it's worth mentioning since Renny all this time had been at the 3 item restriction.

Slayer 2) Yes, AB thought that 30 rage was a good place. Said that it "made it stand out from Sweep" which has 25 rage.

Slayer 3) Once again, I'll discuss ICT later.

Slayer 4) Cool. At least there won't be any confusions in the matter.

Overblade 1) You moved Shock Trooper even further back... but ok. I'll accept that.

I personally wouldn't mind a Custom Accessory for Renny, and maybe I would put that for Overblade 2, since that one looks a little weak. However, I thought between ICT and Shock Trooper, asking for a custom item for Renny (for himself to hold as a Pokebrid) might be a little much since I'm still in the attempt to negotiate for ICT as I proposed it. Plus that would technically be an upgrade meant for higher level Pokebrids.

If you meant more custom accessories for my pokemons, then nope. I'm trying not to add too much stuff so the combination of ICT and Shock Trooper as I requested them isn't too much. I basically replaced them with the situational Anti-Domination/Snag thing.



As for ICT

Normal Slayers have:
1) All elements accessible. Not all at one time, but they can switch them out with a one turn delay.

2) All of their weapons have a 50% chance of a useful debuff or status condition or some other trigger (25% for Instant Death). That adds to their power because not only is the base damage of the weapon is potent, but because the debuffs makes them weaker for everyone else to take them down (If the Slayer attacked first with a Defense down weapon, then everyone else who attack with Attack types are twice as effective, like a Helping Hand) or remove the foe from combat for a bit (Flinch, Sleep) or hamper their powers (Burn, Paralsyis.)

3) Limit on how many elements they can carry, and which combination due to weapon size. That's the Slayer's limitation.


Renny on the other hand:
1) Does not have all the elements. At best, he'd have to use the RDPA to gain those attack types.

2) The attacks he uses do NOT typically have good effects or good effect chance. Out of the 27 moves, not even half of them have effects that can rival what Slayers got (10% or even 30% chance of activating). And even half of those that do have special effects are situational like Facade. Some of them are even functionally effectless. An elemental version of Quick Attack? In this RP, that would simply be an attack and nothing more!

Yes, I know I praised the effects of various moves such as certain Dark and Flying type moves. Those were example of some of the moves that CAN be used that would benefit from having their power set at Slayer Power instead of being useless because their base power was too low. As a whole though, most pokemons including the one I'm choosing only have a VERY small supply of moves with effects like that.

3) With the rare exception of Facade and moves like Giga Impact, all of the moves are equal in power to Slayer weapons. And not all the pokemon moves have 100% accuracy either.

So, with Slayer weapons being functionally superior in all respect. The only thing that's left to mention is the diversity which is supposed to be the combined effect of BOTH the diversity of Slayers and the diversity of Pokebrids. The same thing you're trying to insist on nerfing.

4) Proposed ICT diversity enable for Renny to feasibly almost always hit for Super Effectiveness and half the time for STAB. This diversity basically trades off the more reliable effects of Slayer Weapons for more consistancy when attacking. The offensive damage isn't any greater than when a Slayer attacks with STAB (4 armors, which is pretty close to my 6) and for Super Effectiveness. The power is equal. And Slayers GOT the better effects to begin with.

Plus, your system is complicated.

The system is not as complicated as it looks at all! Basically, those are just the limitations which you'll agree on in terms of the moves. I choose the moves when I get the class, they are set in stone and they are written down in my bio for all to see. When using them, just treat them like normal slayer attacks. Same power as slayer weapons, but use the moves for their effects and element. SIMPLE!

I'm still shocked you suggested Renny can "switch the elements" like they were weapons. You think someone can just suddenly forget on and off their training? No in-game justification there.



So seriously, don't nerf ICT's diversity of moves (which is frankly, don't nerf it at all). Especially not to equal that the number of slayer elements so it is the same which is TOTALLY UNFAIR (You're saying that Slayers should have equal amount of elements and power AND BETTER effects). The increased number of elements and the equality of damage power to the moves is pretty much the ENTIRE point of it! (Aside from any roleplay factors)

On a side note, one thing did come to mind was that two of the moves were AOE. I'd be willing to nerf those moves down so it only hit single target (since Pokebrids and Slayers do not get focus). No backlash, no AOE damage reduction, no free sweep.

And looking back on the moves, I'm removing one of the moves that doubles in power with every use. (There are a couple. Don't bother guessing which one) With starting power being 120, that would be broken and unsuitable.


One thing does come to mind is that we can wait until some time into the next mission to discuss this, since I'll be revealing my pokebrid form then. Then I can reveal the moves in mind and discuss things further. But I'm still adamant that what I proposing is fair (or rather what you are proposing is NOT, although that's somewhat understandable since you don't have all the info, hence why I'm suggesting we wait until next mission).

The most I would probably compromise is that I would divide all the elements into 2 sets, one set to get at Slayer level 1 and the other set to get at Slayer level 3. Roleplay justification being that he was still in the middle of training when he learned the second half.

[Dracorion]

So Gem, AB said I could customize the upgrades for all my characters.

How do you want to handle that? Should I customize all their upgrades starting at level 1, or do I just pick 5 upgrades for them to get and treat them like standard, and only customize after that?

How would the latter work for Sam and Elizabeth, though? They're NPCs, so they gain levels in both their classes at the same time. Do I just pick five ranks from either class, treat those as standard and customize the rest?

[Astral Harmony]

Well, here's a good several ideas for some decent accessories.

- Action Amp: Activation type. Doubles the number and effects of the action for that turn. In other words, activate this accessory, then do two Actions at double their normal effect.
- Environment Guard: Always Active type. Negates damage from Sandstorms, Snowstorms, and other weather effects that deal damage. There will be some custom weather. Moera's Psystorm is not one of them. Flying cars and hotdog stands are different than weather.
- Holy Ring: Always Active type. Restores 5% of MaxHP per turn.
- Holy Guard: Always Active type. Has a 50% chance of reducing any incoming attack by 50%.
- Portal Ring: Always Active type. Stores a weapon or armor in a small dimensional pocket. Slayer can switch out gear as their Action for that turn. Daphne won't always be available to change your loadout for you.
- Divine Blessing: Always Active type. Avoid the first attack that doesn't come from weather or a negative status or as the side effect of an Action.
- Melting Beam: Activation type. Halves the DEF of the target before you strike. DEF is only halved for your strike and not those of any other unit.
- Corruption Beam: Activation type. Halves the SDEF of the target before you strike. SDEF is only halved for your strike and not those of any other unit.

I think that's a good number for now.

How would the latter work for Sam and Elizabeth, though? They're NPCs, so they gain levels in both their classes at the same time. Do I just pick five ranks from either class, treat those as standard and customize the rest?

Yes, do that, except in the case in Demon Half which doesn't have its own template. You can customize those ranks yourself.

Anyways, I'm thinking about the post right now. And I think I'm going to make those psychic manifestations a good deal tougher than I originally thought. It's time for some real difficulty.

[Menarker]

Those accessories look pretty awesome. Especially interesting to see ones that are passive and thus don't require rage to activate for their effect.

Could I possibly request something to help with crit rate? Since the form I'm planning on using has a few moves that focus on crit chances (as well as decent speed). I rather have something that would effect the chances of it happening like the the ability Super Luck as opposed to something that made it stronger like Sniper.

Page here if you need reference

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Critical_hit_ratio#Critical_hit

Also, can you give a sort of scaling ratio of how big a chance chance you get depending on how much speed you have?



EDIT:
I was kinda thinking that a suitable scale might be:

0-90 Speed: Normal (Stage 1 in the Crit Chart) 6.25% chance of crit.

91-114 Speed: Fast (Stage 2 in the Crit Chart) 12.5% chance of crit.

115+ Speed: Ace (Stage 3 in the Crit Chart) 25% chance of crit.

Stage 4 and 5 reserved for those who have items or abilities or moves that improve crit rate.

I kinda doubt you'll want to implement a stage any higher than 50% crit chance anyhow.

Your thoughts? Or thoughts from anyone else for that matter? It was hard trying to decide where the cut-off from Fast to Ace should be. But 115 is where you get most of the really fast pokemons that specialize in speed while sacrificing other stats, although some of the lower ones like Infernape, Rapidash, and the Latios/Latias duo are also very fast, but just not quite that level...

[Dracorion]

Didn't Geminex post a crit formula based on speed a while back?

[Astral Harmony]

I don't remember him doing so, but maybe.

Keep the ideas for accessories flowing. Might as well handle their creation as one big bunch.

[Menarker]

I don't believe he did anything like that...

You said you were going to pump some of the existing older accessories, so maybe that's a start. (In particular maybe the infatuation and Toxic one so they are "improved" like how one of the original accessories was that the target would always fail their saving throw. Maybe turn Infatution into that proposed Love status.)

Something that boosts crit (would be awesome if it was Always active even if it's just one stage boost), something that mimics White Herb (cure stat losses and stuff like that), heck one that mimic Haze would be awesome although probably overpowered on bosses...

Just throwing ideas here.

BTW, I can't seem to find some of your extra accessories that you submitted before, such as the Rage Tank and the one that causes the slayer to do OMGWTF explosion like damage but caused him to faint.

BTW, a thought came to mind. Your upgrade sheet says that RDPA acts like Paradigm Shift except it doesn't costs rage. Does that mean it boosts stats just like Paradigm shift does? Would it stack with PS?

[Dracorion]

Hmmm...

Maybe an activation type that has a chance of countering every attack done on the user that turn?

Or an always active type that basically gives the Slayer the Simple ability.

[Menarker]

Well, there is your big idea AB. Just scroll down the ability page and choose ones you think would be appropriate to accessorize.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ability

Mold Breaker in particular would allow it to fight any foe regardless of what ability it has (good for dealing with Merc foes)


Anyhow, I'm off to work. See you all later!

[Dracorion]

Also, AB, I notice that Wilhelmina is the only Sniper that doesn't have a Sniper Skill.

I mean, Evangaleen, Callisto and Whitney all have Sniper Skills, but Wilhelmina doesn't. What's up with that?

PS: HEY BARD CLEAN OUT YOUR INBOX.

[Geminex]

Ok, first, Drac:
Yah, 5 standard ranks from either class, the rest is customizable. What AB said.

In regards to the accessories: I think everything except for the Action Amp is alright. I'd just forget about the action Amp, though. Double actions at double effect? That's the equivalent of 4 actions, instead of one, for 30 rage. That's... rather a lot.

And I guess Menarker's speed scale works. But... I am uncertain. It's the fact that it rises so quickly after 90 that makes me nervous. I mean come on, 25 speed makes the difference between a 6.25% crit rate and a 25% crit rate? I'm not buying that. I'm thinking it should do one of two things:
Either, it should be a more linear progression (as I, contrary to what you may believe, actually proposed ages ago, but I'm not going back to look)
or, and I actually prefer this one:
We make it digital, like the old speed was. In the games it didn't matter how much you had, it just mattered whether or not yours was higher than your opponent's. If you asked me, my proposal would be to make the base crit chance 10%, holding a crit item or using a crit-improved move gives you another 10% to the base chance, and attacking an opponent with lower speed than you, triples your base chance.

It's faithful to the game, and it's, again, simpler.

Buuuut... ICT. Wow. You really like that, huh?
I'm still shocked you suggested Renny can "switch the elements" like they were weapons. You think someone can just suddenly forget on and off their training? No in-game justification there.
Oh yes! It is absolutely shocking! We are all in shock!
Look, have you ever actually explained how you want ICT to work in-game? I though it was simply Renny using Slayer weapons to improve his own attacks, rather than attack with them independently. And even if that isn't the case, we can make up some bullshit about how he gets "elemental amplifiers" instead of weapons. It's easily justifiable.

And I'm not going to reply to your post point-by-point. But I think you're really, really overestimating the power of status effects in this game. I mean come on, how long does an opponent usually survive? Two attacks? Three? Add to that sig-techs, and the fact that we frequently outnumber and overpower our foes (what with all the nice buffs and amplifiers), and we pretty much sweep the entire enemy side every second turn.

Not to mention that, once a Slayer has used a super-effective attack (which is the only way he inflicts a guaranteed status effect), the opponent will usually be below one third health. They usually get finished off by a pokemon's move.

So really, I'd almost say that Slayer Weapon effects are negligible, since, like I said, enemies don't survive for long enough to get seriously inconvenienced. Not utterly irrelevant, but since you get moves with their own interesting effects (and, y'know, you get all the moves of one element, rather than just one move with one effect), I think it balances out. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say that, in regards to "additional" effects, Renny might be better off, depending on what moves he'd actually get.

But that's really not very important. Slayers aren't disruptors. Their role isn't to cause status effects. Their role it to deal tons and tons of damage. They are capable of doing so because they have good attack stats, they have ways of buffing themselves, they have double stab, they have strong attacks. And already a pretty good variety of attacks. They are DPS, pretty much. Anything that lets them fulfill their primary role more effectively (especially to the magnitude you're proposing) is far more valuable than the ability to cause status effects.

So yeah. 4/8 is the most I'll go (and even that's not likely). Because you're really not sacrificing all that much, and asking for one hell of a lot. You said it yourself:
4) Proposed ICT diversity enable for Renny to feasibly almost always hit for Super Effectiveness and half the time for STAB.
There. That. Pretty much equates to a "massive boost in offensive power". I don't think you should get a massive boost in offensive power. I think being able to pick all the attacks of 3 or, respectively, 6 types is fine.

[Menarker]

Power: Equal. Neither hits harder than the other.
Max availability: Slayer Wins. They have access to all elements. ICT user does not.
Effects: Slayer wins (50% chance of freeze, flinch, defense down, special def down is godly! Those either STOP the foes in their track and thus prevent DPS back on the group, or make it super easy for the rest of the team to finish them off by ganging on them with less people!)
Elements at a time: Equal (Slayers get 3 elements at level 1. Slayers get 6 at level 4)

So you're telling me at Slayers should be equal if not superior at every catagory! How can you even look at the "THING" you just typed and think this remotely fair!? There is NOTHING that makes ICT particularly special at all the way you propose it. Everything that it attempts to do, Ordinary Slayers does or BETTER!

THAT is why the increasing the number of elements is crucial to giving something special about ICT. No illogical switch outs and not some insulting "equality" or at most 2 element difference!

I already gave up Sweep, gave up weapons (and thus ruin type offense), reduced the power of stat boosts, no additional custom items (replaced with uber situational effects and even that I might give up for this). Also Shock Trooper got pushed back two extra levels more than you and AB earlier said would be acceptable. You say I'm not really giving up much, but I'm thinking that you're pushing down WAY too hard, PERIOD.

I'm really losing all faith in your sense of balance.


Also, with your proposed idea for Crits, some of us will be hitting for Crit 90% of the time. >_> I mean, seriously, I could just pop a crit move on Shaymin, give her a razor fang, and know that since she's one of the fastest pokemons in the game, she'll crit 90% chance most of the time and thus do double damage with her HUGE special attack!

With my idea, the slow pokemon and mid level pokemons only get base level. The "pretty darn fast but still quite balanced but not legendary" get stage 2. The speed kings and most legendaries get Stage 3. Yes, it seems like 25 is not that much of a difference, but take a look at the individual pokemons using the base stat charts! Most of those pokemons are the ones that specialize in speed and are lacking in several other stats (or are legendaries). And with my example, even if I gave Shaymin who counts as an Ace a crit move and a crit item, it only reaches 50%. Much more balanced for something that would pierce buffs and doubles the damage. With my idea, if you got a fast pokemon, you got a better chance of critting, and if you're willing to invest a slot in a move and a crit item, then you'll do it twice as reliably.

Also, there wouldn't be debates about whether my pokemon was faster than a Merc pokemon or X-Staged pokemon or a character that isn't a pokemon. Thus it's easier to deal with crits when dealing with foes that don't have listed stats.

[Dracorion]

Menarker, could you please stop playing victim every time someone proposes a nerf on your min-maxing?

I mean, feel free to argue all you want, but:

I'm really losing all faith in your sense of balance.

This shit don't fly.

Now, giving up Sweep doesn't hold all that much weight, seeing as how Trainer already gives you Divide.

Also, what situational effects? Overpower, accessories, STAB, type immunity? That what you're talking about?

[Menarker]

Well, look at the points. Even the crit one I showed just how much more balanced and easier to use mine was. Or how he given ICT practically nothing but a few equalities and disadvantages but no real advantages to speak of.

I really don't think at the moment that he should be the sole person deciding the power scale from the examples I shown.

And why are you calling it min-maxing? You thought it was fine before. And I'm even trying to be accomdating at some point by somehow trimming down a few moves, all those requirements and all that sort of thing.

[Dracorion]

Okay, how about this:

Personal attacks are my schtick. GETCHUROWN, YOU WHINY LITTLE PISSANT.

And anyway, Geminex isn't a dictator!

Well, he is, but he masquerades as a democracy. So you should be able to get through to him, so long as you're right.

Also, "at the moment"? That implies that you think there's ever going to be a moment where he should be deciding your power scale. And you don't mean that.

And I never actually said I was okay with it. I just retreated out of embarrassment.

[Menarker]

When I said

"I really don't think at the moment that he should be the sole person deciding the power scale from the examples I shown."

I was focusing more on "Sole person". The emphasis is also on "at the moment" because if the sense of balance he's sporting now is how he is going to judge everything else, I don't think he should be deciding the power scale alone.

[Dracorion]

The alternative is that you and him would be arguing back and forth endlessly.

Wait, isn't that what you're doing now?

[Geminex]

Power: Equal. Neither hits harder than the other.
Renny has 6 STAB elements, compared to the Slayer's 4. Mind you, that's not an effect of ICT, of course, but nonetheless... 6 STAB with more than 8 elements makes for a very formidable combination, which, in retrospect, you wouldn't really have done all that much to deserve.

Max availability: Slayer Wins. They have access to all elements. ICT user does not.
You miss out on 3 elements, plus ruin. Sure, that might be significant, but I have no idea what these elements are. If you stopped being so damn secretive about what pokemon you're gonna pick, this would be a lot easier.

But, on the other hand, you lose any "heavy weapon, light weapon" restriction. Slayers have 3 categories from which they can pick two weapons (and thus, elements) each. This can be quite restrictive. ICT doesn't have categories, Renny can equip as many light, medium, or heavy elements as he likes. That's... convenient. He has more freedom. Unless the 3 elements he can't use are ground, fighting and ice, I think that the two cancel out, more or less.

Effects: Slayer wins (50% chance of freeze, flinch, defense down, special def down is godly! Those either STOP the foes in their track and thus prevent DPS back on the group, or make it super easy for the rest of the team to finish them off by ganging on them with less people!)
Look, Slayers only get one attack per element. Renny, potentially, gets more. Thus, he isn't limited to inflicting just one status effect when he wants to attack with a certain element. Plus, you've already said this: There's a lot of pokemon attacks that have a very useful effect, which Slayers don't have access to, but you, again, potentially (I don't know your pokemon) do. Facade, for one. 130 power, times two if Renny's, say, poisoned, times two again for guaranteed STAB, 520 power. Add an accessory that buffs his attack if he has a status effect and that becomes even more ridiculous. No other Slayer can do that!

And, once again, a lot of the effects that Slayer weapons can inflict are, in my view, far less relevant than the damage. Because, like I said: Enemies die very quickly, particularly those who've already been hit by a Slayer attack. This is the least relevant category, but we're still, I think, equal!

Look, if you tell me what your chosen pokeshift can actually do, then we can look at this on a case-by-case basis. And it might turn out that I was too harsh on you, I'm open to the possibility. But if we compare Vanilla Slayer and ICT in the three important categories as you did up there, like I said, from the potential power of one vs. the other, I don't think there's much of a difference. Right now, I'm arguing from what it, I think, is likely to be. And like I outlined above, ICT does quite a few things better.

Admittedly, I hadn't considered that you'd given up Sweep, or had been aware of the fact that Stats boost were weaker than before.

The only reason I pushed Shock Trooper back is that I see that one as your "uber" upgrade, and I thought it'd be better to get those more late-game. Though if everyone else agrees, there'd be no problem with us all getting the uber at level 10.

But very well. I'd be willing to go 4/8, if your offer stands to make all the multi-target attacks you could use (with Slayer-level buff) single-target. That'd already almost guarantee that your attacks will all be super-effective, plus, let's not forget STAB.

But mind you, all this really depends on your pokemon of choice.

And finally, there's honestly no need to get so indignant. I have absolutely nothing against you, and if you think my suggestions aren't fair, that is all you need to tell me, and I will reevaluate them. If anything, indignation on your part makes me less likely to agree with you, because implying that I've given insult is, in itself, an insult. Just something to note.

[Menarker]

Anyhow, looking on the movesets a bit more, I might be willing to trim down a bit. Losing some moves in the process though.


All moves from level-up
3 moves of each of the pokemon's type.
1 move of all other type.

Yes, all AOE moves (only two in the moveset anyhow) are single target.

I don't really want to spoil anything, but one of the missing elements is dragon. Thus he'll not be remotely as effective on Ruin types, which is promised to be in good quantity and especially sure to be some of the bosses.

Also, I did suggest we wait until next mission to discuss this, since I'll have revealed my pokebrid form some time then.

And I'll be willing to eliminate Facade from consideration.


Part of the problem is that Slayers can switch out elements at any time and also have no restrictions.
This is actually more important than it seems due to AB customizing his pokemons and foes so that pokemons that normally have weaknesses to some types would not be weak to them at all.
Plus, with ICT focusing so much on attack, foes that are evade/counter Attack stat attacks are sure to confound Renny's ability to deal with them personally.

[Geminex]

Look, why not just reveal it NOW? Seriously, nobody cares enough to actually be surprised, no matter what your choice is gonna be.

And no. Shit gets balanced now. Your upgrade chart is gonna be the template. It must be completed.

And I don't care how many moves you have. I care about the move variety. That's why I said 4/8. Seriously, 8 different types, with quite probably STAB. You can't tell me that's not sufficient attack power.

And I'm not the sole person doing this! I don't wield any power, for god's sake! I'm just giving you my opinion. Which is, like I said, that 6 types is plenty, and 8 is more than plenty.

[Menarker]

BTW, are we setting the order in stone too? Because I wasn't thinking of going Pokebrid, then 2 levels of trainer/breeder and then the rest all slayer. I was thinking Pokebrid, a level of slayer, maybe trainer again, then some of slayer and then Breeder 1 and finish off slayer/overblade.

No one actually knows whether you guys won't be suprised. I'm pretty set about not revealing it until next mission.

[Geminex]

And in regard to crits, you're forgetting speed-buff moves. Anyone with more than 60 base speed could agility themselves to 25% crit. And I'm not sure where stages 4 and 5 would be on your scale, but I'm thinking anything above 200 speed will reach 5. Which'd mean 50% crit chance, without any buffs.

Plus, yeah. Maybe my example wasn't good. But I'm sure we could twist the numbers to improve it. I think a digital system is better than a progressive one in any case.


The order won't really change anything about the power, but try not getting your most powerful levels to begin with. We want progression to be balanced as well as total power.

And eh. I want to finish this now, I won't have time for balancing by the time we reach next mission. So is 4/8 acceptable?

[Menarker]

I said that Rank 4 and 5 would not be accessible by speed alone. You'd need an item, ability or move to reach Rank 4 and 5. I figured you can only go so far with speed alone. Just like how being able to benchpress 200 lbs and being super strong is not going to enable you to drive nails into wood without a proper tool like a hammer. 25% is pretty good for moves whose effect does not include improved critting. For those who REALLY want crit, there is the item Dire Hit, which is available to Medics for +2 stage boost.

I'm not fine with 4/8... maybe a few more elements at Overblade 2 or 3? Something like 4/8/12? By then everyone should be reaching pretty close or reached their peak in power.

[Geminex]

12 at Overblade 2 would be acceptable. We can count it as part of your uber-upgrade, you'd just be getting half early and the other half later.

Though we wouldn't finalize this until we know what your pokemon is, and my condition would be that you agree to let paradigm shifting remain as it is, if you hadn't done so already.

Edit:
Though pending Menarker no long being so damn secretive, does anyone else have objections to Menarker's upgrades? If not, I'd say that we've got our template.

1 down, 4 to go.

[Menarker]

I'll agree to those terms.

[Dracorion]

Well.

It's about time.

I'll be posting my first one conveniently at a time when Geminex is busy all day every day.

[Menarker]

Ok, going to repost the template in a finalized form for reference and making sure I didn't miss anything.



Pokemon Trainer (Level 1)

- Four Pokemon are available.
- Leader Pokemon is available. Leader Pokemon can know six moves instead of four.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 2)

- Fifth Pokemon is available.
- Can now use Focus skill. Attack that hits two targets or a random target can now hit a single designated target. Costs 25 Rage.
- 1st Trainer Action. A low power technique which the trainer uses to support his pokemons.
-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 3)

- A 2nd Leader Pokemon is available.
- Divide skill is available. Allows a single hit attack to hit multiple foes without suffering damage loss or side/stat effect loss. Costs 25 Rage.

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 4)

- Sixth Pokemon is available.
- Two Custom Hold Items are available.
- 2nd trainer action


Level 5 Onwards
-----
Pokebrid (Level 1)

- Choose one non-legendary and non-ruin type pokemon. Can use any and all moves of the chosen Pokemon form and its pre-evolutions if any.
- Stats are (Chosen pokemon's stats+Slayer Stats)/2).
- 1st Pokebrid Action.
- Can use Paradigm Shift (transform into that Pokemon). Lasts for 3 turns. Type weaknesses no longer apply and Pokemon statistics are added to inherent statistics for a stat boost during those turns.
- Character generates 10 rage per attack (or when getting attacked)
- Can deploy self and one pokemon, or two pokemon.
Gets STAB of 1.5x for attacks

-----
Pokemon Trainer (Level 5)

- 1st Xth Stage/Veteran upgrade is now available. Legendary Pokemon do not evolve, but can be Veterans.
- 1st custom move availability.

-----
Pokemon Breeder (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated goes from 5 to 7.
- 1st Ability Shift is available.
- 3rd trainer action.
- Renny's Pokemon can only be snagged at a 50% chance if the pokemon is SEVERELY injured (25% health or lower) regardless of the snag ball used. (As if the snagger was level 1)
- If dominated or otherwise be made disobedient or charmed to fight against Renny's side or in favor of the enemy, they WILL NOT target Renny or attack in a way that Renny will be in the crossfire such as with AOE moves. In addition Renny can spend an action at 80% chance to bring them to normal.



Slayer (Level 1)

- Default Normal type armor. 50% damage reduction from Normal Type attacks.
- Can possess a loadout of three armor aside from the default normal type armor.
- Can switch these equipment loadouts completely in between battles, but can request them from Daphne to switch them out one-by-one.
- Intergrated Combat Training: Can use 4 elements
(See Conditional Upgrades in section below)
- Maximum Items carrying up to 6.
- Stats rearranged but keeping same base total.

- Armor:
Reinforced Vest (Normal -50%, Always Equipped)
Pesticide Layer (Bug -50%, Evasion Debuff Immunity)
Shadow Suit (Dark -50%, Flinch Immunity)
Courage Emblem (Dragon -50%, SpDef Debuff Immunity)
Insulated Armor (Electric -50%, Paralyze Immunity)
Impact Gear (Fighting -50%, Def Debuff Immunity)
FR Suit (Fire -50%, Burn Immunity)
Windbreaker (Flying -50%, Crit Immunity)
Holy Talisman (Ghost -50%, Death Immunity)
Herbicide Layer (Grass -50%, Drain Immunity)
Jump Boots (Ground -50%, Acc Debuff Immunity)
Counter Injector (Poison -50%, Poison Immunity)
Brain Case (Psychic -50%, Confuse Immunity)
Thermal Underwear (Ice -50%, Freeze Immunity)
Sonic Guard (Rock -50%, Att Debuff Immunity)
Platemail (Steel -50%, Bleed Immunity)
Weather Cloak (Water -50%, Sleep Immunity)

-----
Slayer (Level 2)
- Armor Guardian Globe (Ruin type Defense) is available.
- Slayers can now equip one of the Accessories AB made/makes. Each use costs 30 rage.

-----
Slayer (Level 3)

- Slayer Attacks have minimal base power of 130.
- Can wear a second accessory.
- Intergrated Combat Training: Can use 8 elements

-----
Slayer (Level 4)

- All Slayers also gain Armor Affinity. What this means is that if a weapon they use deals the same type of damage as a piece of armor they have equipped protects against, they get a STAB modifier. This STAB modifier is double as opposed the 1.5 used by Trainers and Snaggers.
- Pokebrid STAB also becomes 2.0 but does not stack with armor.


-----
Slayer (Level 5)

- Slayers now have access to the Rapid Deployable Powered Armor, or RDPA. PCs and NPCs can create custom armors that possess five attack types, five defense types, and one Overdrive. Like a Paradigm Shift, but doesn't cost Rage. Lasts for three turns.
- Can wear a third accessory.

-----
Overblade (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated is increased by 1.5 times (to 15 rage for slayer attack).
- Overblades can use the Overpower skill to remove status effects. 15 Rage cost.
- Shock Trooper classification *See Conditional Upgrades below*
-----
Overblade (Level 2)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 10 points.
- Overblades gain a special immunity to a physical-type status effect (Poison, Bad Poison, Paralyze, Freeze, Burn, Fire, Bleeding, Exhaustion)
- Intergrated Combat Training: Can use 12 elements.

-----
Overblade (Level 3)

- Choose 4 stats. Those chosen stats gain 15 points.
- Overblades gain an immunity to one of the following Pokemon types (Bug, Dark, Fighting, Flying, Grass, Ground, Normal, Rock, Steel). If Normal is selected, then a fourth armor can be worn to replace the default armor.
- Improved Mobility Armor: RDPA usage can be split multiple times, so it can be used for 3 turns worth, in segments of 1 turn. In addition, using an Overdrive on the first or second use doesn’t deplete the other usages as well.





Conditional Upgrades

1) Upon getting 1 level of Pokebrid and 1 level of Slayer, Renny gains Intergrated Combat Training.

Intergrated Combat Training enables pokebrid moves to be used in place of Slayer weapons for all attacks, whether basic attack or sweeps or even RDPAs. The moves are pumped up to have the same base power that Slayer Weapons have (120 at Slayer 1 and 130 at level 3). AOE move become Single Target with no backlash. The rules are as follows:
A) 3 Slayer empowered moves for each of respective pokebrid's types.
B) All Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.
C) All other element types only get 1 extra attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen.
D) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)
E) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.
F) 4 Elements are chosen at Slayer 1, a total of 8 is available at Slayer 4 and a total of 12 are available at Overblade 2.

2) Upon getting 4 levels of Slayer and 4 levels of Trainer, Renny gains Shock Trooper classification.

Shock Trooper classification allows Renny to fight alongside his pokemons, with the three (2 pokemons and Renny) being able to attack on the same turn with no penalty.


Things I still need to do:

Trainer Actions: I only made one, although I said I would break that approved one into two (the part of getting 5 rage). Still need a third.

Testament Drive: AB said we can customize our Testament Drives. Do you guys think we should do that? Or we stick with Testament Drive being one of the types of the pokemon selected upon each use and the move just have freakishly high power?

Gem, did you notice the most recent comment I made regarding Crit? The one where speed alone can't get anyone to Stage 4 or 5? *Colored it in now* What is your thoughts on that?

[Dracorion]

I dunno about Testament Drives.

Like I said, they're already a lot like Signature Techniques. If we can just customize them willy-nilly we're effectively giving Trainers and Snaggers more Signature Techniques.

[Menarker]

Yeah, I'm in favor in keeping them as is.

[Geminex]

Yeah, what rules applied to testament Drives anyway? I don't remember discussing that, it was probably while I was moving. Quick recap?

Also, Menarker, you didn't edit ICT in the conditional upgrades. You should probably do that, or people will get confused.

[Dracorion]

Testament Drives?

Ummmm... Legendaries only, cost 50 RPs. High-power move of the same primary type (I think) of the pokemon that uses it.

[Menarker]

I beg your pardon Gem? ICT is up there. The rules for them and all that.

I thought Testament Drive was just the following
A) Only legendary pokemon
B) Choose one of the legendary pokemon's type
C) Choose a target to attack (50 rage)
D) Target recieves shitload of damage of that type.

[Geminex]

1) Upon getting 1 level of Pokebrid and 1 level of Slayer, Renny gains Intergrated Combat Training.

Intergrated Combat Training enables pokebrid moves to be used in place of Slayer weapons for all attacks, whether basic attack or sweeps or even RDPAs. The moves are pumped up to have the same base power that Slayer Weapons have (120 at Slayer 1). AOE move become Single Target with no backlash. The rules are as follows:
A) 3 Slayer empowered moves for each of respective pokebrid's types.
B) All Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.
C) All other element types only get 1 extra attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen.
D) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)
E) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.
...
What?
Wasn't this what you posted originally? And we amended it after a discussion, I'm sure you remember it, to be "Pokebrid can choose 4/8/12 elements, can use all attacks of these elements at Slayer strength. Pokebrid can switch elements as a Slayer would switch weapons".
Or did we just agree on something completely different?

And testament drives, yeah. Let's leave them as they are.

[Menarker]

Oh, that's just stating when the upgrade is given. The entire 4/8/12 thing is in their respective level slot of the template. And I made the agreement assuming that I wouldn't be able to switch the elements around. I mean, it doesn't make sense from the perspective I'm seeing it from.

[Geminex]

Oh, really? Huh.
Fair enough. Though you're weakening yourself a bit, I think. I owe you one for your trainer actions.

And at least we agree on the same thing. But if I were AB, and I looked at your upgrades, and I saw "ICT: Can use 4 elements (see conditional upgrades section below)", and I looked at the section and saw that, I would be thoroughly confused. So yeah, perhaps edit it to explain what's actually gonna be happening?

[Menarker]

Sure ok. Give me a sec.

But I don't see how you owe me for my trainer actions. ^^;

And of course, if you think I'm weakening myself, you could give me more initial elements to start with, like 6 at level 1, 10 at level 4, and 14 at Overblade 2 or something like that.

BTW, you recall that AB said that stat rearrangement is possible and allowed and that was one of the things you wanted Slayers to be able to do? I assume that was part of the setup we agreed on, since I mentioned it earlier several times?

Basically, I would lower Special Attack to dump stat level, boost the other middling/lower stats closer to Slayer level and keep the high ones as they are without boosting them further.

[Geminex]

No, I mean since you're giving up on the ability to switch between elements during battle (which, earlier on, is gonna be pretty significant), you're weakening (nerfing) yourself voluntarily, for the sake of in-game-plausibility. Because a) I respect this and b) balance dictated no need for you to be further nerfed, I'm thinking you deserve to be balanced less stringently another time (probably when you finalize your trainer actions), so that your total power remains the same.

Capisce?

Edit:
And of course, if you think I'm weakening myself, you could give me more initial elements to start with, like 6 at level 1, 10 at level 4, and 14 at Overblade 2 or something like that.
Fuck that with Harliette's rusty machete.

[Menarker]

Hehehe. =P

Anyhow, I'm guessing I might save that "balance less stringently" for my pokebrid form and my moves. Just because you said not everything is finalized until you see and approve of those and everything still more or less hinges on those factors.